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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt

Trump Dismisses A.I. Concerns As A "Hoax", Worrying White House Officials; Senate Returns Amid New A.I. Doom Warnings; U.S. Airman Describes Being Shot Down Over Iran, Evading Capture; CNN Live From Emmy's Red Carpet. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired September 14, 2026 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:00]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Caleb Silver, thanks so much. Great to have your insights.

CALEB SILVER, JOURNALIST: Thank you.

And "THE ARENA WITH KASIE HUNT" starts right now.

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Hi, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. Welcome to THE ARENA. It's great to have you with us on this Monday.

Right now, grave new concerns over the pace at which artificial intelligence is evolving, even as President Donald Trump pushes for full speed ahead. The president posting this afternoon, quote, "A.I. taking over the world, destroying humanity and all other things bad is a hoax," end quote.

This comes just after Anthropic CEO Dario Amodei warned that A.I. models have begun growing drastically faster since just this summer. He is calling for the entire industry to slow down, and he spoke with CNN about what that would look like.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DARIO AMODEI, CEO, ANTHROPIC: I think that the way to take the right paths is for the industry to work together. The industry has to work together, and it's harder, but to some extent, the world has to work together. If we go too slow, I still believe that the wrong people will be in charge of the technology. And that, again, will bring the probability of things going wrong very high.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: So, he's not alone. Other A.I. business leaders quickly posting messages saying he's right. that the industry needs to work together and slow things down.

The president offered an alternative, quote, "The only control or guardrails that A.I. needs is a strong and smart, high I.Q. president, and the USA has that in spades," end quote.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You know, it's going to be more good than bad, but by a lot. And I've said it from the beginning, whoever wins AI, and we're leading by a lot, whoever wins A.I. wins.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: It is worth taking a moment to realize the remarkable position that we're in right now. So, these companies are building immensely powerful and potentially immensely dangerous tools. And the people who are in charge, the people who know the models best, are telling us that we are not far from a day when they could lose control of their own creations.

Standing opposite them are a president calling it a hoax and his number two, the vice president, questioning their motives.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There are obviously risks to A.I. There are some benefits to .AI. I have to say just personally, I feel a little bit weird about the fact that you have so many frontier A.I. tech companies kind of coming to the government and begging the government to regulate them. It feels a little bit to me like a bit of a Trojan horse. So, I think we just have to be careful about this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: OK. In his post this afternoon, President Trump predicted A.I. will be, quote, "The greatest economic development engine in history, bigger than oil, gold, diamonds, or even the Internet," end quote.

So, it seems fair to ask what role, if any, the government should have in regulating something so important.

Here's what the Anthropic CEO told CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AMODEI: So the one thing that we're asking for from government right now, it can sit down in the room and with all the industry players and we can all talk together and the government can make sure that we're -- you know, we're not doing anything nefarious from the perspective of antitrust and collusion. We're just trying to make our system safe and to work together on making the system safe. And so, I think that's an important role for the government to have.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: All right. Let's go off the sidelines head into THE ARENA. My panel is here.

CNN political analyst and historian Leah Wright Rigueur, CNN chief national affairs correspondent Jeff Zeleny, former Michigan Senate candidate and current Democratic State Senator Mallory McMorrow, and former Trump White House communications director Mike Dubke.

We are also joined by CNN contributor and tech journalist Jacob Ward.

Thank you all for being here.

Jacob, I do want to start with you here because when I was watching all of this unfold over the weekend, I was thinking actually back to the conversation you and I had at the end of last week right here on this show. And I was thinking to myself, well, that escalated quickly. You know, we went from, of course, this engineer who came out said, A.I. may kill us all. There's a chance to now getting warnings from the very top, right? The calls are coming from inside the room.

What here should we be paying attention to? And can you help us understand the cross dynamics here, why these CEOs are saying to the government, hey, we need your help to regulate this?

JACOB WARD, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yeah, I mean, I remember on Friday, Kasie, you and I sort of wishing each other a good weekend and do some yoga. And nothing blows up yoga like a 3,800-word essay dropped Saturday morning by Dario Amodei, yeah, calling for the slowing of this frontier, the pacing of this frontier. So, some dynamics I guess I would call your panel's attention to.

One is the language that these folks are using, this pacing "word" is one that we've heard since June back when a letter first started going around talking about pacing the frontier.

[16:05:08]

Pacing yourself in a race does not mean you quit the race. And in his essay on Saturday, Dario Amodei was clear to say, we are not going to stop making this stuff. We just want to slow ourselves down.

And so, the boundaries of their concern don't extend all the way to abandoning the industry. And as far as we know, Anthropic remains on course to be a public company in a few months. Now, the weird thing and another thing that blew up my yoga plan was that on Saturday in a quiet little interview with "Fortune", Sam Altman actually told the editor-in-chief there that he's going to pause his IPO, that he may in fact no longer be planning to go public this year, which is an enormous deal in my world. To walk away from that money is incredible.

So, I think the thing to remember here is that these CEOs never get into a position of power unless they're able to accomplish multiple things with a single action. And so, in this case, I think it is possible to read all of this as probably a genuine concern that their technology is moving faster than they intended. Probably also the sort of humble brag of that in that they want people to understand just how powerful this technology is, and it's not exactly bad marketing to talk about it that way.

They do seem to want earnest regulation. We heard from the Anthropic employee who resigned yesterday in his conversation with our colleague Anderson Cooper, that they do want to be regulated because they need some common rules. They cannot slow themselves down. And we also have to consider that the fact that Sam Altman, Elon Musk, and Dario Amodei, three people who really conventionally hate one another, are agreeing in public to these concepts suggests that there is something larger going on here that is just beyond the sort of self-serving machinations of a company.

Whether that extends all the way to, you know, really being willing to be regulated as deeply as, say, Bernie Sanders wants them to, in which they would be criminally prosecuted for pursuing AGI, superintelligence, I don't think it goes that far. And can these guys actually go along with one another and construct a cohesive plan That's not clear either.

And none of this, of course, gets us all the way to the question of China, which everyone is talking about in the background. So, there's a very complicated set of relationships here. And again, no one in this industry ever does anything for just one reason.

HUNT: Jacob, Anthropic, of course, released that report. And this was last week. We talked about some of the examples on the show. But just to kind of walk through some of the top ones, there was an Iran-linked operation that used Claude to help target American naval forces. Claude was used as an engineer for a Yemeni team that was building missiles. There was an operation linked to China that used Claude to hunt Uyghurs.

One man used Claude to help build surveillance for 25 million phones. Claude refused dangerous virus research. So, the request went to another A.I.

When you talk to these people, when you read between the lines, which of these things are they viewing as the most likely and potentially the most catastrophic?

WARD: Well, this is really the thing, right? I think that there's a whole category of worry around this sort of doomsday scenario in which the thing becomes self-aware and we get Skynet and we're all suddenly living in the Terminator, right? That's the world that they talk about most openly.

This is a very new category of revelation, this idea that Anthropic is releasing this long list of very scary projects that they have found to be underway using their stuff. And the number one thing that they cite when they talk about worrisome uses is bioweapons.

And one of the many categories of horror that they detailed in this report was the possibility of trying to build a novel toxin, a novel virus. That's the very scary stuff that they talk about. And in the report, they point out that Anthropic is the first company to publicly reveal a specific incident of this stuff.

So, I think it's important for us all sort of get away from the idea that you need to somehow settle in your mind whether this technology is self-aware. We don't need to be philosophizing about that for us to agree that in the short term, right now, whether it's a Yemeni military cell or some random scammer, it takes only a couple of dudes and an internet connection to do very scary stuff, to the extent that one of the things they talk about in that report is a WeChat takeover bug that was created using Claude.

That has the Chinese Communist Party terrified right now. They're talking very openly about how concerned they are about the potential of A.I. to destabilize their control of China, this sort of Communist Party. So, you know, there's the short-term horror that I think regulators should really be thinking about, as opposed to the sort of, you know, this Terminator scenario, which everyone is somehow more comfortable talking about, Kasie.

HUNT: Yeah.

All right, so I'm going to bring the panel in here. I mean, Jeff Zeleny, I'll start with you because, you know, you've been out on the road talking to people. This, from a political perspective, has just absolutely exploded. It's sort of taken the form of this debate about data centers.

But I think often if you put your ear to the ground, you'll figure out that's just kind of the symbol of something much bigger that suddenly voters are grappling with.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: There's no doubt, and it has moved so quickly. You were talking on Friday how it really escalated. I mean, it's escalated faster than political campaigns and candidates can keep up with it. There's no doubt about that.

But what I think is so interesting to watch in the coming week, in the coming weeks, as the president is really staking his ground on the fact that he believes in the power of A.I., he's being very dismissive of his critics. There are many Republican candidates out there who are running for governor, for Senate. who will have some real decisions to make if they're going to put some distance between themselves and the president on this because voters are very clear on this.

There's a huge sense of fear about the data center and the artificial intelligence. I think it's probably all being just blended up into one kind of sense of unease here. So that's what I'm watching for this week to see how much distance, if any, Republican candidates are going to put between themselves and the president on this as they head into a debate and meeting with voters.

HUNT: Mike Dubke, we played J.D. Vance saying, hey, this is a Trojan horse, right, from these this might be a Trojan horse. Does he know better than these CEOs? And like, what's he saying there?

MIKE DUBKE, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: I'm trying to understand what the Trojan horse is here. Now, on the one hand, I totally get it that there's antitrust. If these companies came together privately without the cover of the government, there is some antitrust issue here. So maybe that's what he's referring to.

But Jeff, to your point, I think you're going to see Republican candidates very quickly distance themselves from the president here. The president has taken a very a stance very far away from where mainstream politics is right now on both the left and the right. I think everyone's trying to wrap their arms around it.

ZELENY: Almost surprisingly so, right?

DUBKE: Almost surprisingly so. And he's either he's looking at this as an existential national security argument, or he is as the developer that he is, he's looking at this from a data center perspective, that data centers really are economic engines for a lot of these rural communities, and people should be embracing it. Either way, what I don't understand is when you have an industry that is asking for some small level of regulation, because truly you drill down, none of these CEOs want real regulation. They just want a little bit of figure.

HUNT: They may just want cover. They don't want the blame and that could be it.

DUBKE: Maybe that's the Trojan horse. They want that, but it's -- it's very strange right now.

HUNT: Yeah, I mean, Mallory McMorrow, this is an issue that has united Bernie Sanders with Steve Bannon. They are holding a pro-human A.I. event together. And I know this is something that's cropped up repeatedly in Michigan where you were campaigning recently. I mean, how do you see this sort of evolving, exploding? Is it crossing all lines, party or otherwise?

MALLORY MCMORROW (D), MICHIGAN STATE SENATOR: It really is. So, our Attorney General Dana Nessel has been hosting Data Center and then Data Center and A.I. town halls for the past probably two years. And she and I did one in my district, and there truly is no other issue that crosses to not only bipartisan, but almost unanimous concern as this issue.

I released a plan when I was running the U.S. Senate race for A.I. job disruption and A.I. safety. Now, it might have been a few months too early, but a lot of that was spurred by just one conversation that I had at a building trades breakfast, where there was a guy who told me very openly, he's like, look, these data centers will guarantee me job security for the next three years.

But how do I know that the thing that I'm building will not be used to surveil me and my family and won't be used to drop bombs in other countries. And it's not happening in a vacuum. This is a moment where people see Flock cameras, Amazon drones, and they feel like tech is happening to them and not with them. And they're asking very loudly, who is this for? And pleading for the government to step in and to regulate it.

HUNT: There's a political ad out today from a candidate in Montana shooting a Flock camera, to your point.

Leah, I know you've done some work in this area? When you look at this in the broad sweep of things, the implications are enormous.

LEAH WRIGHT RIGUEUR, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST & HISTORIAN: They are huge, and actually I think the president and the vice president are absolutely on the wrong side of history, and by that I think they are underplaying the existential threat that artificial intelligence, that A.I. is putting not just to the United States, but to the larger world. I think we have to frame it not in terms of say this is something that is great for business, great for development, or this is this larger race, but instead you have to think about it as something historic level of the creation of a nuclear bomb or nuclear weapons and the way that was treated.

So, we're not just talking about something that has environmental impact with data centers. We're not just talking in water. We're not just talking about something that is national security threat as we think about what countries, what foreign countries can use it.

[16:15:07]

But we are talking about something that the CEOs of these companies have explicitly said has the ability to render if these things become technologically aware the ability to self-improve their own technology has the ability to level an extinction level event in some way, shape or form on this company.

HUNT: An extinction level event.

WRIGHT RIGUEUR: An extinction level event.

HUNT: Sweet.

WRIGHT RIGUEUR: You can't underestimate it. And so even as we're thinking about these companies or maybe they're playing a game of, you know, we want to be first to the market, we are, some of them are going public. I think the fact that they can kind of unanimously agree, actually we need to be regulated and we need to slow down because we do not know what we are capable of.

That tells us this is something that Congress needs to have its hands on right now.

HUNT: All right. Jacob Ward, very grateful to have you. I feel like we're going to have this conversation hopefully for a long time. Okay. I hope it lasts a long time, this conversation, because if it doesn't, we've got bigger problems.

Coming up next, Senator Chris Coons will enter THE ARENA. He's facing a primary challenge tomorrow. What's his stance on the risk and rewards of artificial intelligence?

Plus, it was perhaps the most tense moment yet in the war with Iran. Ahead, a look inside the operation to rescue two airmen shot down behind enemy lines.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRAVO, AIRMAN: My parachute was damaged in the initial attack at one point when I looked up and saw no parachute. That was the most -- it was the most terrifying thing I've ever seen.

(END VIDEO CLIP) (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:21:13]

HUNT: As the Senate returns today, Minority Leader Chuck Schumer now joining the chorus of Democrats calling for action on A.I., requesting a classified briefing with all senators and some administration officials to discuss an A.I. framework.

Schumer's request coming after former President Barack Obama urged Democrats to make A.I. regulation a core part of the party's agenda, telling Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries at a private fundraising event, quote, "once you're speaker, I would strongly urge the Democrats put together a framework for a very public conversation," adding, "Certainly if I were running for president next year, this would be one of my central agendas. This is something that's moving very fast in private hands, and if we don't get on top of it, I think it can be dangerous. If we do get on top of it, I think it's beneficial.

Joining me now in THE ARENA, Democratic senator from Delaware Chris Coons.

Senator Coons, always good to see you. Thank you so much for coming back into THE ARENA.

On A.I., I mean, have we basically slept-walked into a crisis? Like, is that as far as this has gotten now?

SEN. CHRIS COONS (D-DE): Well, Kasie, it'd be hard to say we're sleepwalking when we're actively running into a crisis. The American economy is putting tens of billions of dollars into new data centers in order to keep at the cutting edge of A.I. And it is the technology that has developed the fastest of any in our lifetime.

Look, you and I are of an age where we remember the world before the internet and the years it took --

HUNT: Me, just barely

COONS: -- from the early stages of the -- well, I'm old enough to remember the world before the internet, and the years that it took, literally decades, for the Internet and the World Wide Web and smartphones to transform our economy and society.

And Congress did not do a good enough job at regulating social media. We cannot afford to miss this moment. And when we've got all the major leaders of the biggest A.I. companies in unison saying we need to slow down, we need some bigger guardrails, we need some protections because this could be a threat to humanity, we deserve a president who recognizes this moment.

And instead of dismissing it as a hoax and saying on Truth Social that we don't need any protections because we have a very high I.Q. president, I think we need a Republican majority and a president who take this moment as seriously as it deserves. Let me briefly lay out what are the big issues here. Yes, we are in a

competition with China. A.I. has huge consequences, positive and negative, for everything from healthcare and curing diseases to the next generation of warfare with drones and hypersonics.

And there's lots of communities in our country that don't want big data centers unless they pay for their own power, don't use up our water, don't pollute our air. And so, we should be putting in place real stringent standards for where we're going to build big data A.I. centers in this country. We don't want one in Delaware if it's going to raise people's electric rates, water rates, and pollute.

And then last, A.I. is going to transform jobs and our economy, and we need a robust plan. how to deliver real training so that we don't see a mass wipeout of jobs across our country that enriches the very wealthiest folks like Elon Musk, who are leaders in A.I. at the expense of millions of working people.

So, there's some tough issues here. We need to find a way forward. And I'm a co-sponsor of several bipartisan bills in this area.

HUNT: Senator, do you take these calls for regulation from these CEOs at face value? Do you think they actually want this, or do their motives include perhaps sharing the blame, even though they've already taken these actions, this ball is rolling down the hill, and now they're looking to the government, if the government can't, does that not give them some cover?

[16:25:13]

COONS: I think that they are scared by their own inventions. I think several recent events where A.I. frontier models on their own broke out of their containment systems and cooperated in a language undecipherable by humans to attack another platform. This is the recent Huggy Face hack.

I think this has caused real alarm at the highest levels of these companies. And yes, they're looking to shift the blame. So, whether you take it at face value or not, the fact that all three, Sam Altman, Dario Amodei, Elon Musk, of the major leaders in A.I. are calling for the same thing, which hasn't happened before, should be a moment that galvanizes us to action.

HUNT: Yeah. Do you use A.I. out of curiosity?

COONS: I do, but not as broadly or deeply as I could. I use things like ChatGPT or Claude to research questions, to come up with papers or ideas for speeches, but I am not using them as broadly and deeply as I could. I took a survey of the 50 people who worked for me in the Senate a few months ago, and there's a very broad range, Kasie. Some have never knowingly touched A.I. Some use it every day to strengthen the job they're doing and scheduling and managing inventory and hiring and writing speeches.

And I think the same is true of many people. We have lots of Americans who don't like it and are afraid of it and don't really want it to impact their lives and others who are racing ahead and fully implementing it.

So, I see a very wide range of difference in adoption.

HUNT: I mean, do you think Congress is capable of doing it?

COONS: I think you could say, do you think Congress is capable, and just stop there.

HUNT: Fair. I'm trying to be polite.

COONS: Literally -- literally, one of the oldest serving senators, Chuck Grassley of Iowa, is my co-sponsor on a bill to protect A.I. whistleblowers. And I think that is a piece of urgently needed legislation that we could pass. And I frankly think that Congress is distracted and divided, partly because we have a president who keeps doing dangerous and irresponsible things like the war in Iran that is hiking costs for gas and fertilizer for all Americans. or his tariff fight with Canada, which I can't find any explanation for why we are in a terrible fight with tariffs with our closest ally.

So, we are distracted by our differences over whether to support or oppose Donald Trump. I oppose those two things, the war with Iran and the tariff fight with Canada. But I saw our Congress come together during the pandemic, which I'll remind you, became a crisis when President Trump was president before. It took nearly a million American lives. President Trump badly mishandled the early stages of responding to the pandemic.

And after our economy was in freefall and travel and commerce in our country was largely shut down, we reconvened as a Senate and passed an $800 billion pandemic relief bill in 10 days unanimously. When there's a crisis, we come together and respond. What I hope Congress is capable of, to your question, Kasie, is coming together and responding before we have a disaster on our hands.

HUNT: I share your hope. I don't know if I can muster optimism, but I appreciate always having your opinion, sir.

Senator Chris Coons, thank you very much for your time today. I appreciate it.

COONS: Thanks, Kasie.

HUNT: All right, up next here in THE ARENA, new details on the daring rescue of two American airmen shot down over Iran, and CNN's exclusive reporting on the political pressure to get one of those airmen to tell his story publicly.

Plus, the new argument that Kennedy Center officials are making as they try once again to add Donald Trump's name to the memorial to our nation's slain 35th president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOWARD LUTNICK, COMMERCE SECRETARY: The idea, when you have the greatest philanthropist, the guy who's going to raise you $500 million, you just need him to agree. And whatever the terms are, since you know he is the most credible person in the world, when he says, I'm going to raise the money, you know he's going to raise the money, you need to induce him. Entice him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:34:08]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

"BRAVO", U.S. AIRMAN SHOT DOWN OVER IRAN: I had injuries, but we all train to adapt and overcome the things that we're faced with. I moved as quickly as I could, despite the injuries, away from the place that I landed. Never let a lack of motivation put you on Iranian TV.

NORAH O'DONNELL, CBS NEWS CORRESPONDENT: You were thinking that?

"BRAVO": Absolutely.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: For the first time, we are hearing the incredible story of survival from one of the American airmen who was shot down over Iran earlier this year. Identified only by his call sign, "Bravo", he shared his story of being stuck behind enemy lines with "60 Minutes" on CBS, CNN has exclusive reporting that Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth and political appointees in his department pushed for the two crew members to sit for that interview.

The chief Pentagon spokesperson says, quote, "This entire story is a complete lie."

[16:35:02]

This declassified video shows the moment of his rescue 50 hours after his plane was shot down. Bravo suffered a broken back, arm and shoulder, sprained ankle when his parachute failed, yet still managed to hike up a 7,000-foot ridge and hide in a mountain crevice waiting for this moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

O'DONNELL: So, in order to get out, one, there were close to 100 other service members involved in risking their lives on the ground.

GEN. DAN CAINE, CHAIRMAN OF THE CHIEF OF STAFF: Norah, I think what you need to know is we would have sent more to go get the backseater.

"BRAVO": The moment a P.J. showed up to me on that ridgeline was one of the greatest moments of my life. And I don't know how to say it any more clearly than thank you for all that they did.

(END VIDEO CLIP) HUNT: Joining our panel here in THE ARENA, retired US Marine combat fighter pilot, former Kentucky Senate candidate, Lieutenant Colonel Amy McGrath.

Colonel, thank you so much for joining us. I really appreciate having you on the show.

We, of course, are reporting that the political heads at the Defense Department pressed Bravo to give this interview. Obviously, it's an incredible story, incredible bravery and courage shown by him in what he did and in also sharing it with the public, but I'm really interested to know what you think of the implications of the administration pushing for this to happen considering the political environment.

LT. COL. AMY MCGRATH (RET.), U.S. MARINE COMBAT FIGHTER PILOT: Well, to me, this looks like an effort to control the narrative about the war. Your reporting shows that the secretary of war, defense, whatever you want to call them, pushed for the air crew to participate. Both air crew apparently initially had reservations about participating in this interview, one ultimately declined. But there's a bigger context here and that the Pentagon very much wants America to be talking about the heroism of this rescue and there's a lot to talk about there. That's certainly understandable.

But we also need to be talking about the war itself. You know, how did these pilots get into this position and why are we here? And remember, the Pentagon hasn't had an actual press conference on the war since like May 5th. So, of course, they're going to want to roll out this really great story about how we rescued the aircrew. But we really do need to be talking about the war itself.

And I actually had a lot of reservations about the story on "60 Minutes" in terms of how much they revealed for operational security, our tactics here. That was a big concern of mine.

HUNT: Say a little bit more about that. What was revealed that you think is potentially problematic?

MCGRATH: Yeah, and again, this was a remarkable rescue, incredible bravery, incredible execution by our special operators. My criticism is not of them. I want to be clear. It's of the leadership surrounding this and putting this on TV.

My biggest problem is the operational security surrounding a mission like this. Why are we telling Iran how we did this? Okay, we're still conducting combat operations against Iran. Why on earth would we be publicly walking through how we recover a downed aircrew?

Last night, they were talking about response times, force compositions, how many aircraft, types of aircraft, how far the little bird helicopters could fly or flew once they came out of the C-130, our special operator capabilities, the role of the CIA, their involvement at all.

Those are capabilities that we might need again. And so, in layman's terms, Kasie, if we lose another aircraft tomorrow, all right, we've just given the enemy a better idea of what we're going to do to get that crew back. And that makes the next rescue harder in my mind. And they shouldn't have done it.

HUNT: Mike Dubke, I mean, when she lays it out that way as a fighter pilot herself, I mean, the number of times I've tried to ask members of Congress who received some of this information in these briefings and gotten you know nothing, rightfully so, it is kind of alarming when you look at it that way.

DUBKE: So I've sat and thought long and hard if I was the communications person at the Pentagon what I have pushed because you mentioned you know the secretary and political appointees and I thought about it and I absolutely I would have pushed for this interview to happen. I absolutely would want this type of story to be out there, especially given where we are in this conflict at the moment.

And I think the heroism and all of that, we need the American people to understand that this is when one person goes down, especially for those who have family in the military, this story was so important for them to hear that our military will do whatever it takes to get there.

To your question of operational, we do need to be very, very careful about that. And I am not expert enough to speak to the individual instances that were pointed out here.

[16:40:04]

But I do think the story was important enough to be told. And I'm glad that they went back and they spoke to both of these airmen and said, can you please tell that story?

HUNT: Jeff, do you have sense of like how the White House is thinking about this, especially since our story broke?

ZELENY: The White House is delighted about it. I mean, it's clear by the press release that they put out this morning heralding the mission. And there's no doubt. I mean, it was gripping to watch the interview, just the dramatic accounts of the heroism involved.

But to the question of how much we learned -- I mean, I think it is a very good point that really was not made much in the "60 Minutes" report. This is an ongoing war. This is not something that was happened in history, and we're sort of looking back at it. This is ongoing.

So I was a little bit surprised that much information was revealed. So I think we have to look at this a couple different ways through a media lens. There are many questions about that. I'll let others talk about that. Brian Stelter is chatting about it on screen right now.

But I think just from an administration point of view, they very clearly want to turn the page on the conversation of this war that is still ongoing. The vice president did not even acknowledge that it was a war. So, I think that the reality is the White House is thrilled about this, to answer your question.

HUNT: All right. Lieutenant Colonel Amy McGrath, thank you very much for joining us. I really appreciate having your perspective. Hope you'll come back.

MCGRATH: Sure.

HUNT: All right. Now, on a totally different note, we are just hours away from TV's biggest night. Soon, celebrities are going to start to arrive on the red carpet for the 78th Primetime Emmy Awards.

Joining us now from the red carpet in Los Angeles, CNN entertainment correspondent Elizabeth Wagmeister and Variety's co-editor-in-chief, Ramin Setoodeh.

Hey, guys. So, what are the big moments? What are we watching for tonight?

RAMIN SETOODEH, CO-EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, VARIETY: Hey, we're really excited to be here on the blue Emmy's carpet.

ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: It's not red. It is blue. Okay, so Kasie, here are the big moments that we are looking out for. "The Pit" comes in with 25 nominations. That's the most nominated show of the night, and it's expected to dominate in the drama categories.

But when you go over to comedy, Ramin, that is where things could be a little dicey. We don't know who's going to win. "Hacks" comes in with the most nominations with 24 but "Widow's Bay" has been a sleeper hit that has really gained momentum. So that's the big award that everyone has their eye on.

SETOODEH: And I'm really excited to see how Marishka Hargitay does as host. She's the fourth -- only the fourth solo woman to host the Emmys the last time we had a female host at the Emmys was about 15 years ago with Jane Lynch during Glee fever and Marishka has been on TV for so many years the "Law & Order". She's won Emmys before. She won two more recently for directing the documentary about her mom.

And I think it's going to be really fun. I think she has some surprises up her sleeve. She's maybe going to sing a little. She's going to play games with the audience. I think it's going to be a great night.

HUNT: All right. Ramin Setoodeh, Elizabeth Wagmeister, have a great night. We'll be watching.

Everyone at home, you can scan the QR code to watch your favorite stars on TV's biggest night. CNN's Variety Red Carpet Live streams at 5:00 p.m. Eastern on the CNN app.

All right, coming up next here, in new court documents, officials from the Kennedy Center say they're on the verge of bankruptcy. Ahead, why they say appeasing President Donald Trump could be the only solution.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:47:50]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LUTNICK: When you have the greatest philanthropist, the guy who's going to raise you $500 million. You just need him to agree. And whatever the terms are, since you know he is the most credible person in the world, when he says, I'm going to raise the money, you know he's going to raise the money, you need to induce him, entice him, get him to agree to wear it and do it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Officials at the Kennedy Center are warning it could face, quote, "certain fiscal collapse within weeks" if President Trump's name is not added back to the building.

The warning was in two draft resolutions included in court filings. One of the documents says that if President Trump's name is not on the building, he won't be able to quote, "lead the fiscal rescue of the center".

My panel is back.

Leah Wright Rigueur, this is a monument to a president who was killed, right? And essentially, they are saying, listen, if we don't put his name back, we're going to run out of money because he's going to refuse to pay for it or to help us raise money to pay for it. What does this all say?

WRIGHT RIGUEUR: So, the Kennedy Center was established, first it was established in 1958 as a cultural memorial. But later on, 1964, Lyndon Johnson renames it and says it's designed to be a living memorial to John F. Kennedy.

Very explicitly, Congress says this is going to be about public- private partnerships and the only person's name who can go on the building is John F. Kennedy.

And so, Congress has stuck to this, the courts have stuck to this over the years, and one of things that we've seen consistently is that Donald Trump has wanted to undo that, that he actually wants his name on the building and will look for any way that he can to establish that in any way possible.

Now, what's interesting here, though, I think, is that this is a -- this is a problem of Donald Trump's own creation. The reason why the Kennedy Center is facing bankruptcy right now is because they have had so many donors pull out, they've had so many performances pull out.

Essentially, the Kennedy Center has become a shell of its former self because Donald Trump has changed so radically what the Kennedy Center wanted, but also there's protest over the fact that the president wants his name on it. So, this emphasis on legacy, right, and the idea that he should only be able to that the only way that he can get money, pour in money in a way that Congress has actually there is already an infrastructure for building money is actually completely at odds with the history of the building.

HUNT: Yeah, I mean, in a recent court filing, actually, it was filed today, the board offered a list of options for how to credit President Trump. Renovation and endowment overseen by President Donald J. Trump and the Trump Kennedy Center Fund. Renovation and restoration endowment overseen by President Donald J. Trump.

I mean, I could read them all. There's 10 of them. But they all accomplish the same goal, Mallory, which is to put the president's name somewhere on a building that the law says he can't have his name on.

I'm curious, just from your perspective, since you just spent so much time talking to voters, does this break through on the ground?

MCMORROW: Yeah. I was surprised how much it does, but not in the way that the president is hoping. It's just so stupid. And it points to how far off his priorities are from Michiganders, from everyday Americans, whether it's the ballroom, whether it's the reflecting pool, whether it's the Kennedy Center.

People look at this, and they see Howard Lutnick, and they see all the noise around it, and they say, I can't afford gas. Diesel is up over $6 a gallon. Michigan was hit harder by the tariffs than any other state in the country, $5,600 to date.

And he's worried about having his name on the Kennedy Center. It's just -- you know, good luck to any Republican who's tying themselves to the president right now, because it is just wildly tone deaf. And voters are going to remember that in November.

HUNT: Let's watch a little bit more of what Howard Lutnick had to say when he did a press conference around the Kennedy Center. He was more sort of straightforward than sometimes we get out of our politicians and political appointees. Here you go.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LUTNICK: The president works all day, every day. And there are two things that he does for enjoyment. He plays golf on the weekend, and he builds. He loves to build. So, this, like -- why are we talking about this? This is what he enjoys.

So late at night, eleven o'clock at night, he calls me and he wants to talk about things he's building because it's fun for him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Mike, it's just fun for him to put this like arts institution into bankruptcy.

DUBKE: And it's really fun that I've been able to be on your show twice when this Lutnick press conference got to me.

HUNT: It's an evergreen sound bite.

DUBKE: I'm feeling great about it. It is evergreen.

Listen, I also think that this shows the level of partisanship that we've got in this country because you've got this board that's putting together and out there some names that will compromise. Let's do something with the circle in front of the Kennedy Center and what.

I mean, the roof tiles are falling in on the building. On September 4th, we had a storm. Roof tiles are falling in. This building does need some help.

I don't understand why this is still a conversation two weeks later after the court case. But you're right. It's a distraction. We should be moving on. We shouldn't be talking about it.

But I think it shows a larger problem with Washington than anything else.

HUNT: Jeff, where is the White House on this?

ZELENY: Look, I mean, it's clear that the White House is where the president is, and it's his obsession. I mean, Secretary Lutnick said right there he gets calls at 11:00 p.m. talking about the building. I mean, it's not exactly top of mind to voters. I'm thinking back to a rally I was at in Wisconsin.

A couple months ago, the president was there in western Wisconsin. He spent a significant amount of time talking about the fountains, the ballroom, other things, and we were in a Quonset hut out on a farm, and the crowd was among the -- it was filled with Trump supporters, but it was one of the quietest moments of any Trump rally that I've covered. I've covered dozens and dozens and dozens.

Talking to people, people don't care about this. They do not want him talking about it or focused on it, and that's reflective in public polling as well. So, it's obviously important to the president, there's no doubt, we'll let the court sort it out.

But I think 50 days before the midterm elections right now Republican candidates are not eager to have the president and Howard Lutnick out there saying what the president is so focused on at 11:00 p.m.

HUNT: Well and it's just not relevant to their lives right and there's so many issues that are relevant to their lives.

ZELENY: For sure.

HUNT: Yeah. I mean, Leah, you want the quick last word here on what it means that we're here?

WRIGHT RIGUEUR: Absolutely. I think the president is obsessed with his legacy, and I think he is obsessed with having his name on things and putting his stamp on Washington, D.C., and America. And right now, Americans are more concerned about what's in their pocket, where their jobs are going, do they have upward mobility, can they pay their rent, can they keep the lights on, how much does gas cost?

And I think that's going to come out in the midterms. So, we're going to see.

HUNT: Well, that is going to be his legacy. It is turning his back on Americans to slap his name on everything.

[16:55:02]

I guess we'll see.

All right. Thanks to my panel. Really appreciate all of you being here.

Thanks to you at home for watching as well. Don't forget, you can now stream THE ARENA live or catch up whenever you want to in the CNN app. It's on that QR code below.

You can also catch up by listening to our podcast. You can follow us on X and Instagram. We are @thearenaCNN.

Don't go anywhere. "THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER" starts after a quick break.