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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt
Trump-Picked Fed Chair: "Plain Fact Is That Inflation Is Too High"; Speaker Sends House Home Early Before Hegseth Impeachment Vote; Soon: Trump Campaigns For GOP Senate Candidate In North Carolina. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired September 16, 2026 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MATT EGAN, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: -- independent from the White House and is willing to back up its tough talk on inflation with real action.
[16:00:06]
Back to you guys.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: All right. Matt, thank you so much for that and your coverage today. We appreciate it.
THE ARENA WITH KASIE HUNT starts right now.
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Hi, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. Welcome to THE ARENA. It's great to have you with us on this Wednesday.
As we come on the air, the Federal Reserve is raising interest rates, tempting President Donald Trump's fury and sending a message to the markets.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEVIN WARSH, FEDERAL RESERVE CHAIRMAN: Plain fact is that inflation is too high and has been for too long.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Chairman Kevin Warsh announcing this afternoon the Fed will raise interest rates. The quarter of a percentage point hike is its first in three years as the central bank renews its fight against persistent inflation.
Just moments ago, US markets closed with the Dow down over 600 points. Notably, today's rate hike was supported by every member of the Fed's committee, putting them directly at odds with President Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Low interest rates will solve everything. We should have the lowest interest rate of any country anywhere in the
world because we make them all sing.
We have interest rates that are artificial, they're actually artificially high.
When we do well, they shouldn't have to raise interest rates.
We should be paying the lowest interest rate in the world, regardless of their formulas.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: President Trump has yet to comment publicly on today's rate hike.
But recently, he vowed a drastic response, threatening, in all caps, quote, "Lower the rate or I'll stop trading with countries with which we have a deficit," end quote.
And so that, perhaps, is why at times today Warsh seemed to be talking to that all important audience of one, framing this rate hike as a sign of just how good things are.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WARSH: Our decision comes at a time when the American economy appears to be strengthening. New hiring, private sector earnings, business capital investment. Each of these markers has improved in recent months and is pointing in a good direction.
Consider the geopolitical landscape of shocks and uncertainty, and you begin to appreciate the resilience of the U.S. economy. Given that resilience and the potential for even greater performance, an attitude of optimism is exactly what I heard inside the FOMC these last two days.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: All right, let's get off the sidelines head of THE ARENA. My panel is here, but we're going to get started with CNN senior White House correspondent Kristen Holmes.
So, Kristen, have we heard anything out of the president yet?
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Nothing from the president, and that in itself is incredibly interesting, given what we have seen for the last several months. When Jerome Powell was at the helm of the Federal Reserve, he would have not held his tongue even this long. He would have already put out a scathing post about how Jerome Powell needs to be fired.
Now, of course, I could eat my words on this new message on True Social to be posted at any second, but it does seem that since Kevin Warsh has taken over, he's been given a little bit more grace than Jerome Powell was. We do know that the two of them have spoken multiple times on the phone since Warsh took over but we did hear from one White House official who called the decision, quote/unquote, "unfortunate" and then went on to say that the White House doesn't believe that the economic data that they have really lines up with the need to raise interest rates.
But, of course, as you mentioned the entire board all 12 of them agreed that this was the necessary next step now also in this conversation or this interview with this White House official we heard them say that President Trump does believe in the independence of the Federal Reserve.
Again, there are still going to be questions about this. does look like a very independent move by Warsh. We know President Trump has made no secret that he wants to see interest rate cuts. Now, the question is how exactly he responds when he does respond. We're going to hear from him tonight during a rally. We might even hear from him before when he stops to talk to reporters, if he does so before getting on the plane.
And we'll see just what he lays out and how much of a personal dig he takes over this. The other thing you have to remember is the entirety of the administration knows that this has big political implications going into the midterms.
HUNT: For sure.
All right, Kristen Holmes, the forest at the White House -- Kristen, thank you.
My panel's here in THE ARENA. Former Republican senator from Arizona, Jeff Flake; CNN political analyst and historian Leah Wright Rigueur; former executive director of the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee, Guy Cecil; and CNN political commentator and Republican strategist Brad Todd.
We're also joined by Gene Sperling. He served as National Economic Council director in both the Clinton and Obama administrations.
Gene, let me start with you on this, because, I mean, you could kind of see the line that Kevin Warsh was trying to walk there, it doesn't seem like there's necessarily a good solution here. Did they do the right thing and is it going to get inflation under control?
GENE SPERLING, FORMER SENIOR ADVISOR TO PRESIDENT BIDEN: I think it was a good day for Kevin Warsh showing that he is going to show policy independence at the Federal Reserve.
[16:05:08]
But I also think he was boxed in, his hands were tied. You know, unfortunately for the president, this is kind of the self-inflicted wound economy. If you remember conversations back in January and February, it looked very likely that the Federal Reserve and a new Federal Reserve chair could be cutting rates right now. But just like they spiked inflation with tariffs at the beginning of 2025, when the inflation projected looked good, it looked good, here, of course, it is not just the war in Iran, but the remarkably reckless handling of the Strait of Hormuz, overall oil situation.
And I think that that really did box them in. I think the chairman was forced to give a kind of hawkish speech at Jackson Hole to reaffirm his credibility. But once he did that, and you saw the CPI numbers come in a little high, and you saw more signs, and you heard this today, that the geopolitical situation, meaning not just the $4.33 at the pump.
But the fact that this looks like it could go on, that oil infrastructure has been damaged, that reserves are down, that refinery capacity is down, this all starts looking less like a kind of one-time blip that the Federal Reserve will let play out and more like an ongoing increase in inflation, which they felt they had really no choice to avoid, particularly with over 90 percent of markets expecting them to increase rates today.
HUNT: Yeah.
So, Senator Flake, I want to play for you something that J.D. Vance said yesterday, because, of course, this has led to a political environment where the president's numbers are just abysmal. And Vance, I mean, it's -- I guess the sin of telling the truth in politics, but watch what he sort of revealed here and we'll talk about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There's a lot of good that's been done, but there's a lot of work left to do. Don't give power to the people who cause the problems that we're fixing. Give us another chance or give us another couple of years to continue to work on the amazing things that we've been doing for the past two years.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Give us another chance. It means a lot.
JEFF FLAKE, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO TURKEY: That's something you say when you're going into your own election campaign, and the other party's been in control. When you've been in control, it's kind of a tough message in a midterm.
HUNT: Yeah.
FLAKE: Very much.
Let me just say what a great day this is for the United States in terms of its position in the world. There has been great skepticism around the world about the ability of the United States to still lead and very much concern about the independence of the Fed. That's what sets us apart from the rest of the world. and so many countries in the world, I should say.
And to see that just as good for us. It is not good politically for the president, but it's good for the country. HUNT: Well, and it's an acknowledgement, too, Guy Cecil, that the thing that the president ran on, the thing he said he was going to do, he hasn't done. I mean, look, let's flashback and watch all of the times the president claimed, promised everyone, all of you watching, everyone in America, that he was going to lower inflation. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I will end the devastating inflation crisis immediately, bring down interest rates, and lower the cost of energy.
Starting on day one, we will end inflation and make America affordable again.
And your prices are going to come tumbling down. Your gasoline is going to come tumbling down, and your heating bills and cooling bills are going to be coming down.
When I win, I will immediately bring prices down.
We will defeat inflation quickly.
Your energy prices will be cut in half within 12 months from January 20th.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: That explicit promise, your energy costs will be cut in half within 12 months, and instead, we're looking at diesel, the highest ever.
GUY CECIL, CHAIRMAN, PRIORITIES USA: Well, this is the problem of the administration. I don't know how often Gene and Warsh agree on economic policy, but I will say this -- the most notable thing in Warsh's comments is when he said, Our economy is sustaining several hits. And all of these hits are hits created by the administration.
So, 11 months after he solved the Ukrainian war, 12 months after he, of course, helped us solve -- 12 months after he helped lower prices.
HUNT: I'm just counting, yeah.
CECIL: Yeah, this is where we are. We have an administration whose economic policy is governed by tariffs and tweets, and now we have a $38 billion war that's crashing our economy.
[16:10:01]
And so, what the Fed did today was right, but it is a pretty horrible situation for any Republican that's running for the House or Senate or frankly anything up and down the ballot this year.
HUNT: I mean, Brad, can you argue with that?
BRAD TODD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: What I would say is the timeline on the president's statements is the problem. And he always wants to, he thinks in TV terms. He's a TV programmer and he wants to say in two weeks everything's going to happen, right? Or in six months or in one year. It's always a very manageable, within this frame reason.
And he's done two very bold things that a lot of presidents sat on the sidelines and didn't do.
One was take on the Iranian regime and try to put him out of business. I think he will eventually put him out of business. It's not going as fast as any of us wanted, but I think he's still been on track to do that. He had to do it. A lot of his predecessors were too wimpy to try.
The second is he had to rearrange the way we look at trade in the world, and a lot of people were taking advantage of us, and we did need to use tariffs, maybe wag tariffs to try to reset that. I would have not done it as up and down.
HUNT: He basically threatened to do more of it if these rates don't get cut. He said, I will stop doing that. Is that the right move?
TODD: No, it's not the right move. Kevin Warsh is a guy who shares his philosophy on rates, and Republicans agree with Kevin Warsh, the president agrees with Kevin Warsh, and he needs to trust Kevin Warsh. This is a -- this is a movement that's good for the country, for the president to have a Federal Reserve that he trusts. He says he trusts him, he needs to let him do his thing here.
HUNT: Leah, I mean, when you think back over the course of recent history, how have we managed to end or get out of situations like this? I mean, you had stagflation in the 1970s. You obviously had periods where we were isolationist and we were not trading with the rest of the world before World War II, for example. I mean, what is the way forward here?
LEAH WRIGHT RIGUEUR, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST & HISTORIAN: So I think the way forward is you listen to the chair of the Federal Reserve and you hope that the head of the Federal Reserve and that the Federal Reserve in and of itself is independent enough to do what is actually right for the economy, what is right for not just the American economy, but for the global economy. You have to remember that they're thinking not just about the present-day moment and the implications, whether it be the geopolitical, whether it be the economic, whether all these influences that are pouring in, but also what is the outcome or what is the outlook from one to two years from now?
And so, these are people who've been put in place because of their expertise. And so, I think for part of what going into this a lot of people had concerns about was does Kevin Warsh have the ability to be independent, and to be independent in a way that the Federal Reserve has needed to be in order to get us out of repeatedly economic crises in different ways, whether it be 2008, whether it be the 1970s, whether it be 2015 as a repair from 2008, whether it be 2022 as a repair from 2020 and the pandemic.
And I think today, Warsh did exactly what he needed to do. And if I'm the president right now -- yes, I'm having a really bad day, but I'm also trying to craft a message that says, actually, this is what Kevin Warsh wanted to do, but this is what I respect and this is what I want him to do, because it is the right thing to do for the economy and the American people.
HUNT: So I take your point, but I mean, Senator Flake, have we ever seen the president do such a thing? Maybe there's growth if there's growth.
FLAKE: Well, if you --
HUNT: Go ahead, jump in, too, if you want.
FLAKE: If he does pull back from that threat to tariff even further our neighbors that with which we don't have, you know, the type of trade he thinks we should have. I mean, if he pulls back from that, that will be a good thing. I don't know if he will.
He probably -- I mean, he's been all over the map on tariff. But we have to understand is this inflation at its heart before the Iran war, it was tariffs and tariffs are inflationary as much as the president doesn't want to admit they are. And if he continues to push that envelope, it will just come back further, and rates will have to be raised even again and again and again. And that's just not good politically.
CECIL: One of the reasons this is so powerful is because this is actually something that affects the American people. Tariffs are taxes. And what's happening today with the war in Iran is raising prices for everyday Americans by thousands of dollars.
You go ask a farmer, a machinist, an automobile maker whether or not they think tariffs have been good for their industry. And to a person, they will tell you, no.
Ask most people who are filling up their gas tanks or their diesel tanks at $6 a gallon whether or not the policies around tariffs and the Iran war have been good.
And so, I take your position that the president has done things that no president has done before. And if the party is going to run on Iran and tariffs, as the core message for going into this next election, Democrats are going to have a very, very, very good thing.
TODD: Well, the core message would be leadership. If you ask people should we get tough on trading partners who take advantage of us, they say yes.
CECIL: Like Canada?
TODD: Should we take out Iran? They say yes.
But Kevin Warsh gave the president a victory lap there. He said the fundamentals were strong in the economy and he saw room for optimism. The president should grab on to that.
HUNT: All right. Gene Sperling, thank you very much, sir, for joining us. I really appreciate it.
The rest of our panel is, of course, going to stand by.
Coming up next here in THE ARENA, new developments in the race for control of the Senate, why Abdul El-Sayed was in Washington today. And what he's telling CNN as the president heads to North Carolina to try and prevent that seat from turning blue.
Plus, Democratic Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal is here live as the speaker of the House abruptly cancels everything until after the midterms.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. THOMAS MASSIE (R-KY): When other people want to go home, I'm here to work. I'm here to get justice for the Epstein victims, the survivors. I am here to get the price of food and fuel down for our constituents. We've got solutions. We just refuse to pass them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:20:15]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: It's time for our members to go home to their districts and make their case to the American people to go and explain all the great things we've done.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: This morning, Speaker Mike Johnson abruptly canceled the House, sending members home until after the midterms. That means the House will have been in session for a total of 46 days from Memorial Day through the November elections. But who's counting?
It also means Congress will not be able to take action on a slew of important agenda items, including on any kind of A.I. regulation. And it prevents the House from taking a vote on whether to impeach Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth.
Joining me now is Democratic Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal from Washington.
Congresswoman, thank you so much for being here. I always love to have you here in THE ARENA.
So, the Speaker said today that this decision to send everybody who had home had nothing to do with Pete Hegseth. Is that the case?
REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL (D-WA): No, absolutely not. All of a sudden, they decide that they're going to send people home because Thomas Massie introduces an impeachment resolution of Pete Hegseth. And because Republicans know this war is so unpopular and Pete Hegseth himself is so incompetent and unpopular that their Republican members do not want to vote on this and have to go home and face districts that are already furious and would be even more furious if they voted no on impeaching an incompetent and, frankly, corrupt secretary of defense that never should have let us go into this war to start with.
He never should have advised Donald Trump. He never should have been the cheerleader with his bullhorn advertising all this military might that the United States can throw around.
Listen, we didn't have an -- we didn't have a mission. We didn't have a plan. We didn't have an exit strategy. And now, even according to the CBO, we've already spent $38 billion on direct costs of the war and $108 billion this morning. I'm sure it's climbed since then, on increased energy costs that American consumers are paying because of this war.
So, Mike Johnson is afraid. They're cowards. They don't want to take the consequences of what they've done, but they also don't want to stop at Kasie.
HUNT: So, of course, as all this is on hold, there still is some movement in the Democratic caucus. Congressman Gregory Meeks, who of course is the top Democrat on the House Foreign Affairs Committee, he just announced that he won't clear the Trump administration's proposed $2.8 billion sale of bombs to Israel, arguing that it would violate or saying that those munitions wouldn't be used in accordance with U.S. and international law. What does it say to you that he's vocalizing this and doing it now?
JAYAPAL: Well, it's very important, and I'm very glad that he did that. I had put out a statement yesterday saying that we were going to do everything we could to block this. These arms sales have to be approved by us. And look, this is more money to the Israeli government to conduct a war that is illegal, that we have continued to see the Israeli government not be in line with even what the United States under Donald Trump has tried to do. And most of all, this is money that should be going to health care, housing, child care, right here at home. That's what the American people have told us over and over again.
So, I'm very supportive and appreciative of Representative Meeks, Ranking Member Meeks' statement and his whole, and we will continue to do everything we can to make sure that our taxpayer dollars are going right here at home to what people desperately need.
HUNT: This, of course, also means that Congress will not be doing anything on A.I., which, of course, has exploded into the public consciousness, especially in recent weeks. And "Axios" asked some lawmakers about their A.I. uses. Actually, let me start with this. Do you use A.I.?
JAYAPAL: I am very careful about it. I use it if I want a quick answer to something, but I don't use it to draft legislation. I don't use it to, you know, to draft speeches because honestly, when I've tried it once or twice and it is full of mistakes, riddled with mistakes. They just scrape everything off the web and then they put things on there that are not verified. So, if somebody happens to say something, they'll put that in there as an example and it's wrong.
It's why actually our legislative council is apparently overwhelmed because members have been using it to develop legislation and then it goes to ledge council and they find all kinds of mistakes. So, no, I really don't use it in my daily -- any of my daily work. I use it if I want a quick answer to something and I know it's a look for a source that I can trust.
HUNT: Fair. So Axios asked a bunch of your colleagues about this. I'm going to put up what they said. So, here's Maxine Waters, 88 years old.
[16:25:02]
I don't know. I can't remember.
Senator Sheldon Whitehouse says, I don't think I do, 70 years old.
No, says Mazie Hirono, 78.
This one, Roger Wicker, age 75. Heavens, no.
The question I think a lot of Americans are asking is, can Congress -- is Congress capable of grappling with this?
JAYAPAL: Yeah, it's -- look, it's a fair question. I was the vice chair of the antitrust subcommittee in 2019 when we did a 16-month investigation of big tech companies, and it followed on the heels of the Senate doing something similar, but those hearings were literally embarrassing where you would have a member hold up an iPhone and ask Sundar Pichai from Google what was wrong with his iPhone, you know? So yes, I understand this concept.
I still think that there are many of us in Congress who have been working on A.I. regulation and tomorrow morning, Kasie, I'm actually -- I encourage all your viewers to tune in live to our social media accounts. We're doing a hearing on A.I.
We'll have a whistleblower, a mom who was directly affected and you know people who have worked in government on A.I. regulation testifying because I've been working on a bill to really change the structure of how these A.I. companies are set up and make sure that they are truly accountable to people and that the A.I. is being used for good purposes.
Look, there's lots of uses of A.I. that are extremely valid, particularly in the healthcare field, you know, cancer research, other kinds of medical research. A.I. can process the data -- assuming that it's a good data set -- they can process that data very quickly.
But there are so many harmful things that have been happening with A.I. and the way the A.I. is being developed. It's surveilling data. It's scraping data off the web so knowledge that we have and have spent decades developing, but then also putting in bad sets of data so that you get all kinds of mistakes and you saw the mathematical scholars who were very upset recently because it was announced that A.I. suddenly came up with a solution to a big math problem, except guess what? It was wrong.
So I think we've just got to be really careful about how we use it with the detrimental impacts that it's having on kids health on -- you know, hacking that we're seeing, losing control of A.I. models, and literally the threat to human existence that I think many Americans deeply understand and are afraid of.
HUNT: All right. Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal, thank you as always for your time. I really appreciate it.
JAYAPAL: Thank you, Kasie.
HUNT: All right. Coming up next here in THE ARENA, new numbers on how much President Trump's networks are spending in the midterms as he heads to North Carolina to try to prop up the party's Senate candidate there.
Plus, hear what the Democratic candidate in Michigan is telling CNN this afternoon after meeting with senators today here in Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Do you have to shift more to the middle, do you think, in this general election, even disavowing Hasan Piker or shifting to the middle? Do you need to do that stuff?
ABDUL EL-SAYED (D), MICHIGAN SENATE CANDIDATE: This conversation is so far removed. from what people are talking about every day in Michigan.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:32:36]
HUNT: All right, welcome back.
Right now, President Trump on his way to North Carolina, where he's hoping to give Republican Senate candidate Michael Whatley a major boost in one of the races that's most likely to swing for Democrats in November. The president's political network also spending heavily in the final weeks of the cycle, dumping a whopping $138 million into midterm campaigns.
This as we get new numbers on how voters are feeling as they prepare to head to the polls. That generic ballot, voters right now prefer a Democrat over a Republican by 13 points. Some Republican senators today acknowledging that the high cost of living, that could be it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. THOM TILLIS (R-NC): To say there's not an affordability, there's always an affordability problem. Republicans would do well to say whether we created all of it or not is irrelevant. It's a recognition that some people are struggling. We run the government, we own it, we've got to fix it.
SEN. JOSH HAWLEY (R-MO): I think Congress needs to take whatever action is available to get down the cost of everything. Gas, diesel, health care, mortgages, I mean, all of the above. Everything is too expensive. Right now, in Missouri, with the cost of gas so high, I mean, farmers are having a hard time. That's a killer. It's, you know, it's tough times.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: All right, my panel's back. Brad Todd, Josh Hawley is no Democrat.
TODD: Josh Hawley and Thom Tillis are both my clients. So, I agree --
(LAUGHTER)
TODD: You know, so I've thought for a long time that the way to run this election, and I'm not president, so I don't get to choose this, but the way to run this election would be to say, we inherited a mess, you know we got a mess, that's why you picked us.
We're trying to make it better, it's not going as fast as we want, but we'll get there. and remind people of where they came from and be humble enough to say that it's not going as fast as you want to. Voters still trust the president is a strong leader. They should lean into that by being honest and humble about it.
He's going to North Carolina. I find it interesting. Roy Cooper, the best Democrat Senate candidate on the map, by the way, by far, he still says his race will be one to three points. And that's because in North Carolina, the last 12 Senate races, Democrats have won a grand total of two.
And so, this map still favors Republicans. Even in the place where Democrats feel the best, North Carolina, their own candidate sees a nail-biter coming.
HUNT: OK.
CECIL: I'm going to take the over on one to three points.
HUNT: OK. Clip and save, by the way.
[16:35:04]
CECIL: I mean, the one thing I would ask Senator Hawley is who is in charge of Congress right now? If Congress should be doing everything they can to lower prices, address costs, drive down you know, the Republicans are in control of Congress, the last time I checked. They are in control of the presidency. They control the government.
They have state legislatures and governors all over the country. The problem is not that the country feels they've made progress and there's just more to go. The country thinks things are getting worse because they are. Prices are going up. Inflation continues to be a problem. The war is
making everything worse. Tariffs put additional taxes on top of the burden that many families are already facing in this country.
And the president is tearing down the East Wing and closing the Kennedy Center and doing all of these other things instead of paying attention to the real problems that people face.
This is not a message problem. This is a content problem. This is a policy problem. And this is a problem of Republicans being in that place where they can't walk away from the president. So, they're stuck.
HUNT: I mean, Senator Flake, you know a little bit about that.
FLAKE: Yeah, I mean, at the top of the ticket, even though he's not on the ticket, he'd like to be on the ticket. He wants people to assume he's on the ticket. He's not, but he's still the head of the party. And it's really tough if you're a congressional candidate to run away from that.
And I think, as Brad said, a little humility would be the best tool here is to say we inherited something, high inflation, we're trying to bring it down. But instead, he said, we'll bring it down right away. And then he's taken measures that I think America understands have worsened the problem, particularly the tariffs.
That has been the original sin here in terms of the economy. Iran only came later. It was already the tariffs that were causing prices to go up. And so --
HUNT: Well, the tariffs with like, you know --
FLAKE: You could --
HUNT: And immediately, Iran less so.
FLAKE: To the extent you're in Congress and you can do something I think members would like voters would like to see Congress actually stand up to the president and say no on tariffs, and Republicans just haven't done that.
HUNT: Yeah. Let's just -- I think it's worth revisiting. We played this once at the top of the show. But let's revisit J.D. Vance again because he's making -- he was asked -- like what is your closing argument. Here's what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VANCE: There's a lot of good that's been done but there's a lot of work left to do, don't give power to the people who cause the problems that we're fixing, give us another chance or give us another couple years to continue to work on the amazing things that we've been doing for the past two years.
(END VIDEO CLIP) HUNT: Is give us another chance compelling like --
WRIGHT RIGUEUR: No.
HUNT: Go ahead.
WRIGHT RIGUEUR: It is absolutely not compelling.
I think that right now the thing that the Republican Party is really struggling with is the mood of the country. The country is not just kind of disappointed or sad. They are angry.
And they are putting their -- I think they are rightfully so putting the blame on congressional Republicans. They are putting it on the president of the United States. Republicans have not acknowledged the problem that they are going through. They are not playing to their strengths and to Democrats' weaknesses.
But instead are doubling down, and then at the top of the ticket, you have someone who seems completely indifferent to the things that voters continue to say that they care about. And I think, you know, the president is not helping this situation by pouring himself into things that voters really just don't care about or that are enraging them even more -- ballroom, Kennedy Center, these things. They want to care about what's in their pocket.
HUNT: So, of course, the House of Representatives much more dependent on a national mood.
The Senate, much more candidate-driven in many ways or race-specific. Abdul El-Sayed is, of course, the Democratic nominee for Senate in Michigan. And significant questions there about whether he's going to be able to keep that seat blue.
He was in Washington today meeting with Democratic senators on Capitol Hill. Our Manu Raju caught up with him. Let's watch that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ABDUL EL-SAYED (D), MICHIGAN SENATE CANDIDATE: They'll talk about anything not to have to talk about gas or groceries or whether or not you can see a doctor or the ability to send your kid to a good, dignified school. So yeah, if the whole Republican caucus meeting is not about what we can do to actually make lives better, but instead what we should talk about so that we can change the subject from what lives are because of their policies -- fine, talk about me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Talk about me. I mean, Brad Todd, Republicans are doing that. How -- what is the thinking right now about the race in Michigan, how potentially winnable it is, especially compared to other seats on the map?
TODD: Well, I'm working on the race in an outside group, and he's right that Republicans are talking about him, but they're talking about his audacious positions on policy. He came out and says we need to empty prisons. He said we want to get rid of this, reinstate taxes on tips and taxes on overtime.
Abdul El-Sayed is perhaps the furthest left, most extreme candidate for the U.S. Senate to ever run in any state. And he's going to have to overcome that in this electorate. Michigan leans Democrat, but it wants a common sense Democrat. It wants a blue collar Democrat.
And this guy is just a faculty lounge liberal. And I think his extremism is his weakness.
[16:40:01]
HUNT: Guy, where do you see the Michigan race, and what are the opportunities on the map for Democrats?
CECIL: Well, Michigan's going to be competitive because it's Michigan. The interesting thing about this, though, is these are the same arguments they have now been making for months. There is nothing new in what was just said that most Michigan voters don't know, and yet, if you look at four of the last six public polls, I'll say it leads.
I think the challenge for Republicans is, absent a course correction, they're going to have probably the largest number of states to defend in the last 20 years, certainly since 2002. I think that -- I think that's -- that's the fun when we're talking about Alaska, Ohio, Kansas, Texas. There is something fundamentally different about this map and the problem is Republicans know that what they're doing now isn't working, but they can't make the course correction to fix it.
TODD: There's a six-year itch in every second term administration where the party out of power gets boost and they get a boost in places they shouldn't ordinarily get it. But these races are still won candidate by candidate. You know, I did Rick Scott's race in 2018. We still won, even though the fundamentals favored Democrats and it was a swing state.
I think Michigan, the story there is, yes, the race is close. Yes, Abdul El-Sayed is close. But remember, he only got 48 percent of the Democratic primary. There are a lot of Democrats who are still reluctant and don't want to vote for him.
I think that's the key to Republicans. It might save the Senate. That seat might save the Senate if Republicans can win Michigan.
HUNT: Senator Flake, when you talk to former colleagues privately, what's the mood? I mean, how afraid are Republicans that they might lose the Senate?
FLAKE: Oh, they're afraid. And I still -- I mean, the map really favors Republicans in terms of the Senate. It's going to be really difficult. Democrats really have to run the table.
But, you know, say that J.D. Vance's message actually would work, give us another chance, you know, express some humility at the top. President Trump isn't saying that. He's saying this is the best economy we've ever had. Everything is hunky dory, no problems at all.
And so, the notion that, you know, that can overrun what the president is saying and overcome the president's poor approval ratings is very difficult, and every one of my colleagues knows that.
HUNT: All right. Ahead here in THE ARENA, what a judge is now demanding from the Trump administration by 10:00 a.m. tomorrow, after the board abruptly votes to close the Kennedy Center.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:46:39]
HUNT: All right. Breaking news, a federal judge now demanding answers from the Trump administration over the status of the Kennedy Center. This time Tuesday, members of the board voted to close the cultural institution despite a federal judge's order requiring the building to remain open during an ongoing lawsuit that Congresswoman Joyce Beatty, an ex officio member of the Kennedy Center board, filed.
There's an emergency request for a court hearing today after a member of her legal team was denied entry to the building. And today, our team saw fencing go up outside the center.
Leah Wright Rigueur, so essentially, they're going to fence it off. It's on its way to being closed. They're trying to prevent it from being closed.
The significance of this, though, I mean, this is supposed to be a living memorial and the president is essentially saying, if you don't put my name on the building, I'm closing it down.
WRIGHT RIGUEUR: I think Rep. Beatty said it well when she was like, this is essentially them holding us -- the president holding us hostage and holding the building to be hostage.
Congress was very clear when it established this. In 1964, Lyndon Johnson establishes the Kennedy Center as a living memorial to John F. Kennedy. And then Congress says, the only way, we are the ones who have the authority. It has to be Kennedy's name on it. We can't put anybody else's name on it, and it has held that way for the past 50, 60-some-odd years.
So, for Trump to come along and simply say, like, my name has to go on it, and I think has dropped the mask completely. It's not about, oh, I can't believe that they would do this, but this is about Trump's legacy. I want my name on that building, and my name will be on that building, or there will be no building.
And so, now, it has escalated into something so far beyond what anyone, I think any Republican, would want this to be. It has now become consuming. It is lawsuits.
The president said that he will chase this all the way up to the Supreme Court if necessary. And it sends, at a moment where the president should be reinforcing messages about the economy, about the American people, it shows that he is consumed, he is more consumed with himself than with what the rest of the nation needs and wants at this point in time.
HUNT: Yeah, so Congresswoman Beatty, of course, was in a meeting, was in the meeting where there was this vote to close it down, and the president actually called in We reported on that yesterday here on this show.
She spoke a little bit about what it was like. Let's watch what she said describing the president's behavior in that meeting.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JOYCE BEATTY (D-OH): To hear a president using the language that he used, he threw a tantrum. It was like an immature child. I wouldn't even want to put this on a child. It was just being very, in my opinion, very immature, shouting, calling names, stating facts.
He doesn't really know anything about me. And I looked to the board and said, are we really going to do this? This is very unprofessional.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Senator Flick, I'm not sure it's necessarily the first time that Donald Trump has ever conducted himself like that in a meeting. But what does it say that he did this, that he took the time out of his day, did this, did those things? That, of course, is Beatty's account. But --
FLAKE: Well, I mean, a politician, if things aren't going well, if your approval is low or whatever, you usually attempt at some distraction. But in this case, to distract from the problem that most Americans are dealing with low or whatever, you usually attempt at some distraction. But in this case, to distract from the problem that most Americans are dealing with, affordability. and you know getting out of the Iran war and to spend time on something like the Kennedy Center.
[16:50:05]
And I agree with Leah that, you know, when this first came up, oh, they want to put my name on it, you know, and oh, you know, that would be flattering or whatever else to if my name isn't on it, I won't raise money for it is just so unseemly and so unpresidential that if this is a distraction, it's not working. It's getting worse.
CECIL: I mean, we have a manchild for president, and asking him to behave any differently is like asking a bird to bark or a cow to sing. This is just not-- it's not possible.
But the real problem is not just the building. It's the Kennedy Center spends millions of dollars funding arts education programs and supports artists not just in D.C. but around the country. And so, you know, it's such an unnecessary fight.
He didn't like Reba McEntire's song at the Kennedy Center. He was upset that Def Leppard wasn't honored in an appropriate way. I mean, what is the real problem?
It's simply he wants recognition. He wants to put his name in as many places, in as many spaces as possible, thinking that that somehow cements his legacy. And what's going to cement his legacy is a disastrous war driving our economy in the tank and losing a historic level in a midterm election. That's what's going to define Donald Trump.
TODD: Three things can be true at the same time. Joyce Beatty should not be surprised that she sued the president and then he yelled at her. It's our right as Americans to sue, but nobody likes the people who sue them. So, you know, factor that.
Number two, I think this has been a silly fight for the president to pick. I see no upside for him in the electorate, and he should -- he should instead focus his energies on fights that help him and his party.
Number three, this doesn't matter except in Bethesda and McLean and Georgetown. Like, rich people who live in Washington care, nobody else does, but the president should be spending his time on things.
HUNT: Is it just rich people, though? I mean, anybody that lives in this area who wants to take their kid to see a show at Christmastime. I mean, it's actually a pretty reasonably priced place.
(CROSSTALK)
TODD: There are a plethora of places. Having raised kids in this area, there are a plethora of places to take them. Someone else will stage a nutcracker. So it's a -- but it doesn't make it a smart fight for the president. It's not.
HUNT: Let's watch what Secretary Lutnick said, the commerce secretary. He's been involved in this. He was also on the call yesterday, but he did a press conference.
We've played this fight a couple times before on the show, but it's a -- just watch it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOWARD LUTNICK, COMMERCE SECRETARY: The president works all day, every day. And there are two things that he does for enjoyment. He plays golf on the weekend, and he builds. He loves to build.
So, this -- like, why are we talking about this? This is what he enjoys. So late at night, eleven o'clock at night, he calls me and wants to talk about things he's building because it's fun for him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: It's all just fun for him, Guy. I mean, like -- go ahead.
CECIL: Sometimes I think the best way to make Donald Trump look reasonable is to put Howard Lutnick in, because what he says is just, it's so on its face ridiculous.
And it's not just the Kennedy Center that he's trying to destroy. Let's just be real. It's any arts institution that doesn't say what he wants, behave like he wants. It's the Smithsonian. It's museums around the country that receive federal funding. Independence Hall because he didn't like the fact that it acknowledged that slavery existed.
I mean, this is the president's agenda, and frankly, it's the far right's agenda to redefine American history, redefine what it means to be an American, and to pull every single lever they can, not just political, not just regulatory, but culturally, artistically.
This is part of a design. It's not just about one building and the president's a man, baby. I mean, no one behaves. No one behaves this way, and people think, gosh, this is really what I want. This is how I want a president to behave.
HUNT: I mean, Brad said that people don't care about this except rich people in certain places. But, Senator, if that's the case, why does the president care so much?
CECIL: Because he's a rich person.
HUNT: He's a rich person in Washington, D.C.
FLAKE: There you go. No, I mean, he -- Howard Lutnick is right. I mean, that's what he likes to do. That's why he's spending so much of his time. I think there have been some analysis on how much of his rhetoric, how much of his time is spent on issues like this, and it's an inordinate number, figure.
It's what he likes. And things like Iran, that's not something that is going well. It's not something he can fix. Without reversing tariffs or dealing with the economic damage that is done, he can't fix that. So this is something he feels he can make progress on, and he has some small wins, and he has -- I mean, crime has come down in the nation's capital he has rehabilitated some of the -- save the reflecting pool and a few others, but he's done some good there and he can point to that.
TODD: For sure.
FLAKE: And that is good for him, but it just doesn't hold a candle to the big items that he could be working on.
TODD: And news media has given him not any credit for the things he's cleaned up in Washington, D.C. and a lot of more attention on the things that haven't worked.
[16:55:02]
And this impulse to be a fixer, Washington's going to be better when he's gone.
HUNT: We'll see. All right, we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HUNT: All right. Thanks to my panel. Really appreciate all of you joining us.
Thanks to all of you at home for joining us as well. Don't forget, you can now stream THE ARENA Live. Catch up whatever you want to in the CNN app. Just scan the QR code below.
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But don't go anywhere. Jake Tapper is standing by for "THE LEAD".
Hey, hey, go Birds.
