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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt
Blanche: A "Doomsday Scenario" Is Possible, But There's No Intention For DOJ To Be Involved In Election Certification; Ohio GOP Governor Urges Ramaswamy To Take Down Controversial Ad; WaPo: Hegseth's Staff Broke Priceless Eisenhower Globe. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired October 22, 2026 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:00]
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: All right, Jack.
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Didn't hear anything about a discount, but that's all right.
Jack Crivici-Kramer, thank you so much for being with us.
(LAUGHTER)
JACK CRIVICI-KRAMER, PODCAST HOST: Thank you.
KEILAR: THE ARENA WITH KASIE HUNT starts right now.
(MUSIC)
KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Hi, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. Welcome to THE ARENA. It's great to have you with us on this Thursday.
Right now, 12 days to go, more than 18 million votes already cast.
The Trump administration and Republicans confronting and preparing for, in one top official's words, possible doomsday scenario.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Is there any scenario in which DOJ would weigh in on that certification process or try to block states from certifying?
TODD BLANCHE, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: I mean, is there any scenario? Yes, of course, there's scenarios that we could all come up with hypothetically, some doomsday scenario, for example.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Attorney General Todd Blanche today saying the DOJ has no intention of getting involved in the midterms, specifically around the state certification process of the votes. But as you heard him say there, he's not ruling anything out as we get closer to Election Day.
In the meantime, the president's party is confronting their own doomsday scenario today, escalating their scramble to save the Senate as more prominent members of the party now openly acknowledge and predict the Democrats will win the House.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEVIN MCCARTHY, FORMER U.S. HOUSE SPEAKER: It won't be like when Obama was in and we won 63 seats or when Clinton was in and for the first time in 40 years, Republican took over. They'll get a majority. I'm not quite sure how big it is, but they will probably win the majority. The real battle is for the Senate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: So, what is the state of that battle for the Senate? A new CNN analysis out today ranks the Senate races that are most likely to flip.
Here are the top five. Take a look -- North Carolina, Ohio, Alaska, Maine and Texas, if you can believe it, they would all be gains for Democrats. Iowa number seven on that list. That's where President Trump is heading today.
So, just how bad do Republicans think things are out there? Well, this afternoon, the party announced they're going to start spending money in -- you guessed it. I wouldn't have guessed it. The Mississippi Senate race, Mississippi.
That is less than 24 hours after the RNC said the president will add a rally there next week. Former Vice President Kamala Harris made a stop there today to campaign for Democratic candidate Scott Colom.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAMALA HARRIS, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT: For a year and a half, some of us have been saying words we don't say in church towards the TV. Maybe throwing a little something at it from time to time. Feeling powerless, how can we do anything about this?
That season is over. We are now in the season of being able to do something about it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: All right, let's go off the sidelines head into THE ARENA. My panel is here.
CNN contributor, co-host of the "Flagrant and Funny" podcast, Cari Champion; former adviser to President George W. Bush, Senator John McCain, Mark McKinnon; Democratic strategist and former senior adviser to the Harris and Biden presidential campaigns, Adrienne Elrod; and former Republican congressman from Michigan, Peter Meijer.
Welcome to all of you. Thank you so much for being here.
Mark McKinnon, where are you sitting here today on we've got this list in order of these Senate races most likely to flip. At the end of the day, are Democrats likely to wake up in charge?
And where are you looking to find that?
MARK MCKINNON, FORMER ADVISER TO GEORGE W. BUSH & JOHN MCCAIN: It's feeling pretty good for Democrats. I mean, this is that stage where good gets better and bad gets worse, and it's hard to change the dynamic with just a couple of Zacharias to go here before the election.
(LAUGHTER)
HUNT: How many exactly? Take me a second to do the math.
MCKINNON: I think six and a half Zacharias, 13 days.
Listen, one of the things we always look at is most important, and we say that the most precious commodity is a candidate's time, so look at where they're going. And if you're playing defense and Mississippi is Republican, boy, that's a bad sign. If you're spending $150 million in Texas to protect that seat, should not have had to spend a dime spending time and money in South Carolina, those are all states that should be solidly Republican.
So those are just the signs that are just suggestive that the Republicans are on defense, Democrats are on offense, and that's for Democrats, that's where you want to be the last two weeks.
HUNT: Congressman Meijer, when you look across at this map, do you think it's as bad for Republicans as -- I got to tell you, I'm talking to a lot of people who basically have already thrown in the towel, even if they don't want to say it out loud in public.
PETER MEIJER (R), FORMER MICHIGAN CONGRESSMAN: No, I mean, what Speaker McCarthy was saying, you've heard Donald Trump say the exact same thing, which is just restating fact that the party of the president, especially one that controls both the House and the Senate, going into a midterm, is probably going to flip. Now, I'm a lot less bullish on Democratic chances to flip the Senate. I think that's very unlikely.
You just look at what would need to fall out in order to actually get Dems to 50 or 51. And that is big. I think it's fantastic, though. The Republicans think that they're running 15 points behind. That is where you want to be.
[16:05:01]
Now if you're actually 15 points behind, that sucks.
(LAUGHTER)
MEIJER: But if you think you are and you're running towards that finish line, you want to be sprinting.
MCKINNON: Two ways to run, scared and unopposed.
MEIJER: Exactly.
HUNT: Very smart.
I mean, Cari Champion, to that point, I mean, our expectations out of whack for Democrats?
CARI CHAMPION, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I measured. I think that we've been here before, and I know, I've talked to different people who have said exactly what he said, that they think that is a good space for Democrats, but I wouldn't be surprised if we were disappointed and/or if there was not the win that they thought they would have.
I wouldn't be shocked by that. I just am so surprised at where we are in this country, and I know everything is pointing in the direction of, okay, guess what, they'll win the House, okay, perhaps, Senate, I don't know.
I am in the middle, firmly in the middle, and I think that hesitation has a lot to do with what we've seen this president and this administration do. They've been able to get away with so much, so it's hard for people to believe that there's going to be a win in the near future for the other party.
HUNT: Adrienne, what do you think?
ADRIENNE ELROD, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I mean, look, I'm sort of in the middle of all of these people, right? I mean, on the one hand, I do agree with Mark. I mean, the numbers for Democrats are looking outstanding. Trump's numbers are far worse than Bush's numbers were in 2016.
MCKINNON: Thank you, Donald Trump.
(LAUGHTER)
CHAMPION: He's like, thanks.
ELROD: Mark is thrilled about that, which, of course, is a huge indicator of where the direction will go. But of course, with redistricting and with --
MCKINNON: Structural stuff.
ELROD: Structural stuff and with some of the hokey pokey that may go on in some of these races nearing into election day, it certainly -- and I'm certainly someone who has worked on a number of campaigns where everything was looking really gosh darn good and then we lost on election day.
So, I don't want to put the cart before the horse, but the indicators are looking very, very good. And I'm going to respectfully disagree on the Senate. I mean, when you look at like seven, eight, nine races where Democrats are either ahead or within the margin of error, and to Kasie's point, in deep red -- or Mark's point, deep red areas like South Carolina, Mississippi, Republicans playing defense there. I actually think the Democrats -- I mean, we're going to take the
House. But I think we are more than within striking distance of the Senate. I think the odds of us taking the Senate are better. But I want to warn everybody out there watching, that doesn't mean stay home and not vote.
CHAMPION: Right, right.
ELROD: We've got to get out there and vote. And when people think that, you know, you said about running 15 points behind, when people think that we're running 15 points ahead, they oftentimes stay home and we need everyone at least on my side of the aisle to get out there.
CHAMPION: Well, that's the voter apathy that I'm talking about, too, because if you feel like, okay, I really could care less between either candidate and it looks as if this party or that party will win, I'm staying home. You can't do that.
But I want to use her official term, her election term. There's a lot of hokey-pokey.
MCKINNON: Is that the same as hanky-panky?
CHAMPION: Similar.
HUNT: Similar.
CHAMPION: There's a lot of hokey-pokey and hanky-panky. And we just need to be measured. And I'm using that term from now on.
MEIJER: I mean, the hokey-pokey and turning ourselves around. I mean, that's the only reason why Alaska is on that list is because of the shenanigans with the dueling Dan Sullivans on the ballot, which I also think is just really detrimental to any arguments for election reform.
ELROD: Those are shenanigans. Those are like there's two Dan Sullivans who are running, which is confusing, but that is not.
HUNT: Alaska shown remarkable sophistication and you know, just ask Lisa Murkowski. You know she got back on that.
So, part of this I want to play a little bit of what happened at this rally in South Carolina last night. And, of course, the president is there because they have to shore up Darlene Graham, who of course is the sister of Lindsey Graham and is facing a remarkably stiff challenge from a local doctor in South Carolina, a Democrat who again, is proving to be more resilient in this national environment than anyone might expect in South Carolina.
But we saw on display some of the dynamics that have really driven Donald Trump's campaigns since he stepped onto the stage in 2016. Let's watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Who's the guy that threw the punch? You are. You know? You reminded me of Evander "The Real Deal" Holyfield. It takes courage to do that at a Trump rally. He got whacked. Just -- he started, you know, that screech, whatever the hell they do, whatever they practice. And as he's in the process of the screech, he got whacked.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: So, Mark McKinnon, he's talking about there was a protester, and before law enforcement could get there, someone else in the crowd punched him, and the president praised him. What does that say about where we are? I mean, maybe it just says the same thing.
MCKINNON: It says the same thing. But the thing I'll say about I mean, nothing's changed with Trump. He's doubling down, doubling down on that ad. And, you know, I mean, part of the Trump mantra is never, never apologize.
HUNT: Right.
MCKINNON: And so that's why he's doubling down in the Ohio ad.
But it makes me think about The mistake that Trump -- well, Trump specifically, let's put it at his feat, the buck stops with him. The problem is six months ago or even a year ago, they took for granted a lot of things, that the environment would be a lot better. So, they didn't care as much about candidate quality.
Therefore, you got Ken Paxton. Therefore, you got Darline Graham. And so both of those candidates are in a situation now because of candidate quality, those states are at risk.
[16:10:04]
HUNT: Yeah. Well, I mean, Congressman Meijer, to that point, I mean, there is one place on the map. Mark's right. I mean, Ken Paxton, I think I might have said this yesterday. So, the risk of repeating myself, Ken Paxton gives the phrase bad candidate a run for its money. It's like, you know, bad candidates could look up and be like, wait a second, don't compare me to that guy.
But there are a couple challenges for Republicans in Michigan, your home state, though, that is a place where Democrats feel the ones that I'm talking to anyway privately will say that the candidate that they have has more work to do than other kinds of candidates.
What are you picking up on the ground there?
MEIJER: No, I mean, at least the Democrats I'm talking to, they're concerned, and I think rightly so. Abdul El-Sayed has some weaknesses, especially in the Metro Detroit area with African-American voters, with Jewish voters. Those have all been very well documented.
But there's also a lot of frustration because he was part of the uncommitted movement in 2024. So, you have Democrats who are like Lon Johnson, the former chair of the Michigan Democratic Party, who is not somebody who has done a 180. He's not, you know, a Lincoln Project Republican who's like, well, I'm Republican for so-and-so. OK, the guy hasn't voted Republican in a decade.
No, Lon Johnson is still a Democrat in good standing. And he's not advocating for anyone to vote for Mike Rogers. He's advocating for folks to just leave it blank. So, you know, you do have some snapback from that 2024 uncommitted movement that may come back to bite.
And meanwhile, Mike Rogers seems to be getting more and more in his element, being more and more comfortable in this race, while Abdul's increasingly on the defensive. So, a month ago, I don't know that I was super optimistic. I'm more so today.
MCKINNON: Just as a focus group of one, as you know, I'm a never- Trump guy, and I'm a RINO-Bush Republican, admittedly and happily. But -- so I don't know that much about the candidates there. I met El- Sayed in a green room a while ago, but I've watched a little bit of the debates.
And just as sort of that kind of Republican, I was watching Rogers, I was like, he's okay. You know, he's not like, oh, scary MAGA guy.
HUNT: Let's watch a little bit of the news, actually.
MCKINNON: He seemed okay.
HUNT: He, Rogers -- I don't think he'll scare Bush Republicans.
MEIJER: Normal is surprisingly a shocking attribute in politics right now.
HUNT: Let's watch some of that. I mean, Rogers has been leveling these accusations at El Sayed. He questioned whether he was for terrorist groups overseas. This is what Rogers said to El Sayed. Let's watch that moment from last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE ROGERS (R), MICHIGAN SENATE CANDIDATE: If you are going to go to the United States Senate, we need to know, are you for America or are you for these terrorist groups overseas?
ABDUL EL-SAYED (D), MICHIGAN SENATE CANDIDATE: To bring in a question, my commitment to the Constitution is really beneath you. I am proud of America. I'm proud to be an American. I'm proud of our Constitution that guarantees all of us the right to pray as we choose to pray.
And the question that you would ask that, I think, is actually really quite shameful as somebody who's actually served under that Constitution.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Mark, what do you make of that? MCKINNON: It seemed a little weaselly to me. I mean, I think --
CHAMPION: His response?
MCKINNON: Yes. I thought he could have just been much more proactive and met the court and say absolutely not under no circumstances. There's no record of that. But to sort of fall back on the Constitution, it just felt a little --
CHAMPION: Kasie, he had a viral --
MCKINNON: -- not straightforward.
CHAMPION: He had a viral video where he was asked at a town hall meeting by a guy named Tommy. I haven't fully heard you denounce. You saw that video?
HUNT: Yeah, we've talked about it.
CHAMPION: And he dismissed it. And to your point, it wasn't as full- throated as a lot of people want it to be, but he's taking this approach that it's inherently biased and bigoted to assume that he is associated with that party because of what is being said, or with the Muslim Brotherhood because of what is being said about him.
I do agree. I say at the same time, I do agree that he could be much more forceful with that response just to just to kill it.
You know, he has. I don't know if it will continue to come up, but you have to do that over and over and over again. And I and that's where we are.
MCKINNON: I will also say that, you know, again, as you know, somebody who really appreciate and respect what Bush did right after 9/11 coming out and like defending Muslim religion, that there's a lot of Islamophobia going on, that people are being targeted. And I think El Sayed is being unfairly --
CHAMPION: Of course, of course.
MEIJER: But to your point, there are clear given to nip that in the bud and say it's been asked and answered.
CHAMPION: But would that be enough?
MEIJER: It might not. I mean, there's still folks who are going to make outlandish accusations. I don't think he's a member of the Muslim Brotherhood. If he was, his vacation rental property in Dubai would have been seized by the Emirati authorities because they declare that a terrorist group.
But, you know, he also has not forcibly condemned a lot of groups.
HUNT: Way to get that in there, by the way. Way to just sneak that right in there.
(LAUGHTER)
MCKINNON: Have you been in Congress?
HUNT: All right. coming up next here in THE ARENA, are voters casting ballots for Democrats or against Donald Trump? We're going to talk to the senator who says his party can't just be voters, quote, "rebound boyfriends". Hawaii Democrat Brian Schatz is here.
But first, President Trump forcefully defending that controversial ad by the Republican in the Ohio governor's race, and blasting the current governor for speaking out against it.
[16:15:04]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. MIKE DEWINE (R), OHIO: It's wrong to run this ad. And even at this late time, my wife Fran saw the ad run this morning on TV. I would just urge the Ramaswamy campaign to take this down.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DEWINE: The ad on its face is deeply, deeply troubling. I would just urge the Ramaswamy campaign to take this down. It's just -- it's just -- it's just wrong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[16:20:02]
HUNT: Just wrong.
Ohio's Republican Governor Mike DeWine there calling his party's gubernatorial nominee, Vivek Ramaswamy, to take down a controversial attack ad featuring his Democratic opponent's estranged mother.
President Trump, though, urging Ramaswamy to keep running the ad. In a lengthy Truth Social post, the president called DeWine disloyal and wrote in part, quote, "He probably wants a Democrat to win and certainly doesn't want someone who'll do a much better job than he is capable of doing. I suggested, on the other hand, that Vivek should keep it up."
This all coming as a top election forecaster moves the race between Ramaswamy and Democrat Amy Acton from toss-up to lean Democratic. DeWine today was also asked if he would pull his endorsement of Ramaswamy amid the backlash from the ad.
Here's how he responded.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REPORTER: I think a lot of readers and viewers are going to see this and be a little confused by the seriousness of your criticism. Then you're not withdrawing your endorsement or taking any other action. Can you reconcile that?
DEWINE: Look, look -- three and four months ago, whenever it was, I stood in front of you all and you asked me the question you've been asking me for repeatedly, am I endorsing Republican ticket? The answer is yes. I endorse the whole ticket.
REPORTER: Why --
DEWINE: And look, this is -- I want to stay focused on this. I want to stay focused on this ad. And I'm still hopeful -- I'm still hopeful that they will take this ad down.
REPORTER: Candidate on the ticket ran the ad. I mean --
REPORTER: Not the whole.
REPORTER: The whole ticket isn't responsible to the ad?
DEWINE: Look, this -- we are down to 11 days. We are now -- this is clearly now in the hands of the voters.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: All right. So, Mark McKinnon, I mean -- we were talking about this ad yesterday. Again, Amy Acton, her step -- she's estranged from her mother because her stepfather was arrested on charges of raping her.
Then Vivek Ramaswamy finds the mother, puts out this ad, stands behind it. This is what one former Republican congressman from Ohio, Jim Renacci, had to say about this, quote, "The floor may have just fallen out from under the Republican campaign for Ohio governor. Any Republican who fails to distance themselves from this ad risks taking on water. When voters believe someone has been treated unfairly, sympathy can become a powerful political force. Elections aren't won simply by convincing voters that your opponent is worse. They are won by convincing voters you're better.
Is he right about the floor falling out here?
MCKINNON: Yeah, 100 percent. I mean, I've said pretty unequivocally that I think this is the worst ad in American history in politics, and that's a pretty low floor.
But I mean, what I say to people who are defending it, it's only -- it's not only morally bankrupt to ever produce this ad in the first place, and whoever did should be fired, but it's strategically such a backfire. I mean, I realized that the intent was to suggest that this candidate is a liar, but you put up somebody who's not a credible witness who was taken away from her daughter at 12 by Child Protective Services as the credible witness. Anybody who sees that, and we saw a little bit in some of your reporting from the day after, like Trump supporters saying, well, maybe her mom's lying, maybe there's something going on there.
Well, I guarantee that as the story has gotten two or three days, and people are like, well, wait a minute, you mean she left her daughter for her father who was being prosecuted for rape? She's the credible witness?
So again, I think to the point of the person you're quoting, it has not only backfired, it's created sympathy for Amy Acton and a narrative story that to her credit, she hasn't been -- she had been playing this victim card during the campaign. Now the opponent plays the victim card for her.
HUNT: Yeah, go ahead.
ELROD: Kasie, also to Mark's point, not only do I think this is something that could truly swing every major election in Ohio, the governor's race, obviously, the Senate race, because it's so distasteful, because it is the worst ad that's been created in American history, but people who are supporting this, like Vice President Vance, it could hurt him in the future. It's just disgusting to actually see this kind of behavior.
And I think swing voters, independent voters see this and they say, is this really what these people stand for, that they're actually backing the notion of putting this ad out there. I think it's something that could hurt candidates down the road in 2028.
CHAMPION: Yeah, they're telling the story for her. The narrative was not out there, to your point. I don't know if it is catching fire the way in which we're talking about it, but for those now who are hearing about the remnants of it are like, well, what is this about? I hear it at the grocery store. Now, what's this about? Something about her mom and the ad?
And so, what that does, then you start by word of mouth, you share that story, you're telling her story and you can't help but empathize.
MCKINNON: And I don't know the ticktock on how they got the mother, but you know it's exploitative.
[16:25:01]
You know that they found this poor woman where she was, and she's probably not healthy -- I mean, she doesn't look particularly healthy in the ad, and just took advantage of her and said, listen, this is your chance to get back at your daughter.
HUNT: The campaign, it's worth noting, Ramaswamy claims that she was not compensated, but I take your point.
I mean, Cari, one thing you said actually I wanted to ask you about because it does seem like a big part of the fallout from this is that all of a sudden, this is something that people are talking about at the grocery store. Because there's a lot of stuff that we sit around here and talk about on this set that never gets to the grocery store. Is that your experience here with this story? I feel like Amy Acton's name is now known in so many more places.
CHAMPION: Not for us, but for a lot of people, it came out of nowhere. I always do this litmus test where people I know who are generally, averagely aware of what's going on, and by average, I mean the basics. in Ohio. Now wait, so he did what? Okay, wait, why would they do that?
You then have to explain the story and you become, whether you want to or not, you become pro-Amy Acton because of the story that you tell and the details become more and more horrifying.
We showed a video earlier, which I'm sure you did, too, of just a constituent saying, I just want to give you a hug. I just want to give you a hug. I don't know what happened to you, but can I just give you a hug? Because now that I know --
MCKINNON: They successfully created a sympathetic, heroic character in their opponent.
CHAMPION: Correct.
HUNT: Yeah. Well, let's watch a little bit --
MCKINNON: Well done.
HUNT: -- of what Amy Acton has had to say about this. I mean, we here at CNN, we're -- we're on the ground and she spoke with our reporter in a poll side yesterday. Let's take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AMY ACTON (D), OHIO GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: I'd hoped he wouldn't sink this low, but of course he did. I had a childhood of extreme physical abuse and sexual abuse as a kid. My brother and I have frequent flyers at children services, finally removed after a grand jury saw evidence that was so -- it is so, so shocking that we were removed from my mother's custody age of 12.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: I mean, It's all laid out right there. And it prompted Congresswoman Nancy Mace, who was speaking to my colleague Jake Tapper, to say to look at the ramifications of what it might mean for Republicans right now who are standing behind Vivek Ramaswamy, notably J.D. Vance, who's from Ohio, went to Ohio and said that people should stop essentially whining about this.
Let's watch what Mace had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. NANCY MACE (R-SC): This ad is going to go down as the most shameful, disgusting, offensive ad this election season. Somehow Vivek Ramaswamy somehow managed to limbo under the lowest bar of decency in this country. The idea that the vice president would go to the mattresses to defend this ad might have cost J.D. Vance the presidency.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Congressman Meijer, do you agree?
MEIJER: I think there's a long time between now and even the 2028 primaries.
HUNT: Fair.
MEIJER: But I totally agree on just the kind of repugnant morality, you know, at play. I mean, you know, is a political misstep because her team was prepared. They had already wrote -- put the video out because they thought this is an attack that could come and -- yeah.
(LAUGHTER)
MEIJER: I don't know what to say when, you know. I don't think the president certainly should have defended it either.
HUNT: Okay, so speaking of the president, our team in the control room has been watching him on the South Lawn for approximately 10 minutes or so, and he is still defending the ad, says that the media has ganged up on her estranged mother.
MEIJER: No, and if I'm Donald Trump, I -- he has family members whose entire public persona is dedicated to hating on him, right? So, it's not, Mary Trump is, I don't know if it's a cousin or a niece. That's her entire online persona. So, from Trump's perspective, I get that he's like --
HUNT: But the difference is an accusation of child rape.
MEIJER: And that is the part that is undeniable here, that to the point on creating, just from a political standpoint, creating a sympathetic narrative, creating a moment where now you are on the defensive, your opponent is able to cast something in very stark terms.
MCKINNON: You know how hard it is to have a child taken away from a mother?
HUNT: So difficult, so difficult.
MCKINNON: So Trump is defending the woman, that woman, child protectors --
HUNT: Who did something so egregious that the state took her child away.
All right, up next here, just how cool and confident are Democrats feeling ahead of the midterms? We will ask the man positioned to become the Senate's number two Democrat, Senator Brian Schatz, when he joins us in THE ARENA.
Plus, accidents happen. [16:30:00]
How the Defense Department is now responding to reports that Pete Hegseth's staff broke a priceless relic from World War II.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TODD BLANCHE, ATTORNEY GENERAL: It is not DOJ's intention to, and it's never our intention, to improperly interfere with elections or the state confirmation process or certification process, but, you know, to say that there's no circumstances that we would ever do that, of course I'm not going to say that. But am I planning my days around the election to be somewhere to not certify? Of course not. No, not at all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Attorney General Todd Blanch earlier today telling reporters that the Justice Department has no intention of getting involved in the midterms' election certification process.
[16:35:00]
But Blanche notably did leave room for a possible, quote/unquote, "doomsday scenario" that could precipitate DOJ action.
Joining me now in THE ARENA, the man positioned to become the Senate's number two Democrat, Senator Brian Schatz from Hawaii. He currently sits on the Senate Foreign Relations and Appropriations Committee.
Senator, I'm so grateful to have you in THE ARENA. Thank you so much for being here.
SEN. BRIAN SCHATZ (D-HI): Thanks for having me, Kasie.
HUNT: Let me start there with what the attorney general said, because control of the Senate could come down to a pretty small number of votes potentially in a single state. Are you concerned that the DOJ might interfere under what the attorney general just laid out?
SCHATZ: What I would say is that we're vigilant. We are ready for any scenario. What he said sort of less bad than it could have been but it doesn't really rule out malfeasance and misfeasance.
So, we're ready for any scenario. We've got litigators ready. We've got people organizers ready in case things get difficult in terms of people to access the polls and so we're not going to have a failure of imagination in terms of what people are capable of in terms of overturning an election.
But I also think -- it's important to remember that part of the game here is that people are desirous of making voters feel like their vote won't count. And so, the best way to overcome any kind of people screwing around is to get out there and vote in large enough numbers that these little marginal moves that they could or may or may not make won't work.
HUNT: Speaking of that, I mean, that conversation about needing to win big was primarily about the House of Representatives. Now, all of a sudden, the Senate is really in play.
How confident are you the Democrats are going to take back the Senate?
SCHATZ: Look, I don't trust happiness. The polls look good, and I think usually you sort of match up the polls with the vibes and see whether they jibe. Usually when the polls are off, you can kind of feel it.
What I will say is that the vibes and the polls are looking good, and the public and the private polls the same. But a lot of these races are margin of error races. You know, we're ahead by a little in Kansas. We're ahead by a little more in Texas. We're ahead by a little in Ohio.
There are very few races that we've actually put away and so I'm going to be nervous all the way through to the end. But right now, we're a little underfunded in a couple of states And that's partly a good news story, because we have an unexpected number of states that we need to be competitive in.
Nobody would have anticipated that we were competitive in Kansas, Texas, Iowa, Mississippi, South Carolina, even Florida. And so, that requires resources, and so there's been a real scramble over the last three weeks.
HUNT: You mentioned a couple of states there. I'm curious, what's your assessment of Maine right now?
SCHATZ: Look, I think that the question is, do we want a Democratic Senate to provide a check against this out-of-control president? And I think the people of Maine, even those who have had a relationship electorally with Senator Collins, are coming to the conclusion that it is time for the country and for Maine to be a check against a president who's totally out of control.
And so that I think is the question at hand. I remember a couple of actually competitive Senate races in Hawaii when we sort of made the whole election about -- do you want Daniel K. Inouye to be a chairman or a ranking member? Do you want the Democrats to get their way or the Republicans to get their way?
And so, I think Maine is trending Democratic, and I think that's going to carry Troy Jackson across the finish line.
HUNT: Is this -- if this is as close as we think it could be, if Democrats specifically end up with a 51-seat majority, how concerned are you about Senator John Fetterman's intentions?
SCHATZ: Look, I like -- only the paranoids survive in politics, so I am constantly in the business of checking on everybody. Whether we have 47 or 53, I'm just going to constantly be working the list and seeing what people's needs are what people's preferences are. I've talked to John a bunch of times. I have no evidence. I have no
reason to believe that he's not going to be a Democrat. I also have no reason to believe that he's always going to vote with us.
But for me, that's a high-quality problem. I mean, I remember those days with Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema not voting with us. But you know what? We had the gavels, we could drive the agenda, and sometimes they would throttle back our ambition, and that was a bummer for me.
But it's a better bummer than losing and not being in charge of the chamber.
So, look, John Fetterman's going to be independent. I imagine Adam Hamilton will be independent. I know Mary Peltola and Troy Jackson will be independent. And so, if we take power, it's going to be a challenge because we'll have an increasingly diverse caucus.
My view is I would rather have a diverse caucus of 53 than a totally pure and aligned caucus of 44.
HUNT: Fair enough. I can understand why you would prefer that. I mean, that actually leads right to my next question, which is you just described a caucus that has a lot of potentially centrist governing demands. However, there's a lot of energy and a lot of anger on the left.
How do you think about balancing those things as you potentially face control, having control of the chamber?
SCHATZ: Well, look, we haven't taken control yet, but the way I view this is that the question in a midterm is, have you had enough? Do you think that there should be a check against unified control of Washington, D.C. among Republicans?
And so, I think we should frame it that way as an institutional check against an out-of-control president. And then if we do take power, we should use our leverage to try to bring this war to a conclusion and to reverse the Medicaid and SNAP cuts.
I do not think it is time to propose things that the president of the United States is guaranteed to veto. I think that is somewhat of a bit of wasted energy. And then if we want to be more aspirational if we want to make more bold policy changes we're going to have to take the presidency and both chambers and that's for 2028.
Right now is about stabilizing the country itself and providing some check against not just an out-of-control presidency and a corrupt presidency but everyone's costs. Diesel, gasoline agricultural products, consumer products like everything is up, and I think people want to see us do not everything but a few things that will take the pain out of what they're experiencing.
HUNT: You mentioned 2028 and one question when I talk to a lot of people in your party honestly, there is this question about whether congressional overreach could make it harder for Democrats to win the presidency in 2028. How do you think about that concern?
SCHATZ: I'm not very worried about congressional overreach if the president of the United States is Donald Trump, right? If we actually have power, then we're going to struggle against each other, the Article I branch of the Constitution against the Article II branch, as it was supposed to be.
And so, we're not going to be in a position to enact the things that we may even want to enact.
HUNT: But what if the House impeaches him?
SCHATZ: Look, I think that -- I think the public generally views a lot of the president's conduct as impeachable. The question for House members is, does a third impeachment do the trick? What does it accomplish?
Because it is a judgment that they're -- they're not required to move forward with impeachment. They can make a judgment.
My own instinct is that there are a number of cabinet officials who may have also violated the law and committed high crimes and misdemeanors and there may be more of an aperture for the impeachment of certain officials at that level because the public would not see this as like there they go again they're doing the thing that won't work and it's performative and it's just for the clicks.
I think people need to see a nice balance of accountability, especially around the corruption and especially around this war, but also a kind of pragmatism that I think both parties have been lacking for quite a while.
HUNT: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez said today that she wants subpoenas on day one for all of the investigations of heads of agencies. Is that something you want to see?
SCHATZ: Yeah. I mean, I don't care if it's day one or day 34 whatever but I think that the subpoena authority is a constitutional authority that is given to the majority in the United States Congress and we should use it. That doesn't mean we should go out of our way to be punitive. It doesn't mean we should wake up every morning frothing, figuring out how we're going to vanquish our enemies.
I think we should wake up every morning figuring out how we're going to provide some accountability and reduce people's prices. But it is a balance, right? I think people would be appropriately upset if we just said, well, bygones, and then just moved on completely and said that's all in the past.
But I also think that people want to see the right balance of. us worrying about regular people and what they're going through in addition to providing some accountability for especially the corruption so that it doesn't happen again.
HUNT: Yeah. So, 2028 likely to start the presidential cycle basically the day after this midterm. We may get some Democrats announcing as early as this year if not early next. I mean, Barack Obama announced in February of 2007 you might remember.
Who's the front-runner in the Democratic Party right now?
SCHATZ: Oh, I don't know the answer to that.
HUNT: Is it Kamala Harris?
SCHATZ: I mean, I suppose -- look, the people with the biggest name ID are the frontrunners. But I just think it's as wide open of a field as we've had in a very, very long time. You're not looking at sort of like these political dynasties. And I think the public is very interested in a wide-open field.
And so, if you ask someone who's paying passing attention, they're just going to name someone they've heard of at this point. But I think that doesn't survive contact. Right now, we've got, I don't know, seven governors, seven senators, a few others.
I think that's a good, high-quality problem, because what people want to see is a vigorous new generation of people who want to provide themselves to the public as the potential commander in chief. And I think that's exciting. Half of the Senate is going to be running for president, and that'll be something I got to navigate, too.
HUNT: Fair enough. Senator Brian Schatz, that is, I appreciate, it's a good note to end on.
Good luck with that should you face it. Thank you very much.
All right. I had here in THE ARENA, he had the whole world in his hands and then dropped it. The new reporting on just how a priceless World War II artifact that would have been used by President Eisenhower was damaged by Secretary Pete Hegseth's staff.
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[16:49:31]
HUNT: All right. Welcome back.
We are now learning about an incident at the Pentagon. Apparently, staffers for the defense secretary, Pete Hegseth, damaged a World War II-era floor globe. It was used by General Dwight D. Eisenhower during World War II. It was damaged when they tried to move it into the secretary's office. That's according to "The Washington Post".
So typically, a priceless historical artifact such as this would be moved within the building by trained curators.
[16:50:08]
But in this case, Hegseth's staff dispatched their own team, who then proceeded to drop it, impaling the fragile shell near its base, of course, where you would find Antarctica. A Defense Department official told "The Post", quote, "Accidents
happen. We're grateful no one was harmed, and the globe is being repaired."
Mark McKinnon, apparently, there also have been jokes across the Pentagon because of Hegseth's general World War II nostalgia. And they wrote, quote, The episode became instant fodder for gossip and jokes, some decrying the apparent brashness and affinity for nostalgia that they characterized as common themes through Hegseth's tenure as defense secretary.
MCKINNON: Well, the staff broke literally what their boss broke figuratively. So, you know, the one thing that's interesting to me about Hegseth and his kind of place in the universe right now is that I'm surprised that he hasn't taken more wrath so far for the Iran conflict from Trump.
But I think that's coming, and I think it's going to come hard. And so, it's been interesting to me that there's stories -- I've read in the last 24 hours about him thinking about running for the Senate in Tennessee. So, he's looking at his next chapter already since he broke the world.
HUNT: Since he -- yeah, I mean, yeah, the metaphors kind of write themselves.
Congressman, do you agree with that assessment? I mean, when I talk to sources who are kind of looking at what they now expect to be a bloodbath in the midterms, looking ahead to what that means for the administration, typically when you see such a result in a midterm, there are consequences in the cabinet and elsewhere in the wake of it. I was talking to somebody who was recalling when Rumsfeld was fired in the immediate aftermath of a similar situation in the Bush administration.
Is Hegseth the first one out the door?
MEIJER: Very much depends on what the outcome is, especially relative to expectations, right? If Republicans lose the House, I think that is just the status quo expectation. There's not going to be recriminations. If Democrats pick up the Senate, that's a very different picture.
Now, I will say to the globe, no habited or permanently inhabited parts of the Earth were impacted by that. It seems to have been Antarctica. And I would love to know -- as a former enlisted guy, I just want it to be like two young privates who are dispatched and have the security cam footage of them fumbling it. I mean, I don't want the priceless artifact damaged, but it just -- it seems like some Joan behavior.
MCKINNON: It was Joan and Richard split.
(LAUGHTER)
MEIJER: But I mean, to me, the more interesting question after the midterms is going to be what happens on the Democratic side of the aisle going into '28, because the '28 picture on the Republican side is relatively fixed. It's J.D. Vance presumptively. If he's not running, then it'll probably be Secretary of State Marco Rubio.
On the Democratic side, as the senator said, wide open. But the question of, you know, if Abdul El-Sayed wins in Michigan, that is going to have reverberations going into the primary. If he loses a seat, and that's the one seat that flips from Democratic held to Republican held, that's going to have entirely different ramifications.
HUNT: Adrienne?
ELROD: I mean -- yeah, well, first of all, I disagree a little bit that the Republican primaries were sort of set. I mean, I think a lot of Republicans, maybe Chris Christie, there have been a number of people who have come out and said that they're thinking about running. So, I don't know that like J.D. Vance or Marco Rubio are the resumptive nominees.
But look, I think a robust Democratic primary is not only something that Democrats are yearning for, but I think it's very important for getting the brand of the Democratic Party up in the numbers and really talking about what we stand for as Democrats.
So, I'm looking forward to a big tent primary. You know, we'll see what happens in Michigan, but I think we've got a lot of strong candidates. I know we have a lot of strong candidates who are going to be running and I think that we're going to be a force to be reckoned with going into the 2028 primary season.
CHAMPION: I don't think it's set on either side. It's really interesting that you say it's you think that J.D. Vance will be the presumptive nominee. There are a couple of things I find very interesting about him and what I've watched.
I think today was an unforced error. The stop whining or yesterday when he said the stop whining of it all with this ad. I think that's going to have much more impact than we think about in Ohio than we really for granted right now that we're talking about in terms of just the likability factor.
And I've noticed he's often tried to follow in the footsteps of Trump in terms of being charismatic and have a sense of humor. Say what you want about Trump, he is "The Apprentice". He is for TV and he is for lights.
The jokes about the rear end, if you will, and looking at Husted's rear end. We watched J.D. Vance this morning try to make the same joke and it just fell flat. He doesn't have it.
ELROD: Well, remember the donut shop incident?
CHAMPION: Yeah.
ELROD: Primary in 2020, like at the end when he was awkwardly ordering a Lay's donut and he does not have the same --
CHAMPION: He's trying to have that same authority. Stop whining. It is more offensive. It doesn't feel authentic. It just doesn't feel like he has it.
HUNT: Mark, last word on J.D.
[16:55:02]
MCKINNON: I find him incredibly inauthentic, and I think that is a key factor of being successful in politics today.
So, I think that -- I think that the Republican primary may blow just as wide open as the Democratic primary.
HUNT: All right. With that, we'll be right back.
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HUNT: All right. Thanks very much, my panel. Really appreciate all of you being here today.
Thank you so much to you at home for watching as well. We always appreciate you.
And of course, as always, don't go anywhere because Jake Tapper is standing by with a great show coming up on "THE LEAD".
Hi, Jake.
