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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown
The Anthrax Investigation
Aired October 17, 2001 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again, everyone.
At one point today, we were told some members of Congress, some members in the leadership sat down and discussed whether they might need another place to meet, a place that wasn't the floor of the House or Senate, a place that wasn't the Capitol. This is not a dream: This is a the United States as we have never known it and it is unsettling.
We don't know if the country is at the beginning, the middle or the end of this anthrax scare. We don't know if another shoe is going to drop. We don't know who is doing this or why they are doing this. And it is often the case what we don't know that scares us, and many people are scared tonight. We will try not to make it any worse.
So as we have often said these past five weeks, here's where we are and here is what we know.
We know that 31 people in and around Senator Tom Daschle's office who were there on Monday have now tested positively for anthrax exposure. They include staffers in Senator Russell Feingold's office, which is close by. None is sick with anthrax, but all are being treated.
Here's the result: Capitol Hill tonight, mostly empty of workers, except for those workers searching for signs of anthrax. One commentator described it as nothing short of an evacuation.
And the scare was not confined to Capitol Hill. It flared up again here in New York. Governor George Pataki shut down his Manhattan offices after early tests point to anthrax contamination. His staff there is also on the antibiotic Cipro and so is he.
Details coming up in a moment. First, the headlines and a quick whip around the world.
Jonathan Karl has been covering an extraordinary day on Capitol Hill and Jonathan starts it off -- Jon.
JONATHAN KARL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, a day for the history books on Capitol Hill as for the first time ever the House of Representatives shuts down for public health reasons and the Senate remains open but only under the strangest of circumstances
BROWN: That's just part of the Capitol Hill story. Kate Snow has the other part, the part we'll call mixed messages.
KATE SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Confused messages, unclear definitions, inconsistent advice. No one up here on Capitol Hill intentionally trying to mislead anyone, but this was a day of many twists and turns, and a story that seemed to change by the minute.
BROWN: Kate, we'll be back with you.
David Ensor has been working on the anthrax investigation today, and there are developments. David, the headline?
DAVID ENSOR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Aaron. The evidence so far suggests whoever made the anthrax was quite sophisticated about it. It was professionally done, as an FBI official put it: a dangerous and deadly powder. But fortunately, it was apparently not the kind of even more cutting-edge biological weapon that would definitely have required help from a nation-state's government.
BROWN: Back with David in a bit as well. And now, finally to Pakistan. That nation and its rival India have seen the worst fighting in a while in the Kashmir region. Couldn't come at a worse time.
Christiane Amanpour, the headline from Islamabad?
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, indeed, it's not been intense fighting, but nonetheless very worrying, both for Pakistan and India, and the United States. Colin Powell now in China, having been both -- to both countries to try to calm tensions. Instead, we have now Pakistan putting its troops on high alert, India denying it's up to any mischief, and the world waiting to see whether there will be a dispute over Kashmir.
BROWN: Christiane, we'll be back with you as well. Back with all of you.
We start with anthrax again. The waters that all of us are in -- you, me, members of Congress, all of us -- are uncharted. In some ways, the easiest part of this story is the medical advice.
Since an anthrax letter was found in Majority Leader Tom Dacshle's office on the Capitol on Monday, the capital has been in a tizzy. Uncharted waters will do that.
Jonathan Karl reported the story as it played out all day today, so we'll begin with him -- Jonathan.
KARL: Well, a tizzy maybe, Aaron, but a bit of a controlled tizzy,if you will. Only 31 of the more than 20,000 people who work in the Capitol complex up here actually tested positive, and only for anthrax exposure. No signs yet that anybody actually is testing positive for anthrax infection.
But nevertheless, even at this late hour, Capitol Police can be seen going into the Capitol office complex in HazMat gear, a sign of just how serious this threat is being taken on Capitol Hill. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KARL (voice-over): For the first time in history, the House of Representatives is closed for public health reasons.
REP. DENNIS HASTERT (R-IL), HOUSE SPEAKER: We think we owe it to the people who work here, we think we owe it to our staffs that come from all across this country to serve the people of this nation, and quite frankly, we owe it to the members of this country, the people who elect us.
KARL: But in the Senate, the only place where anthrax has been detected, the work goes on.
SEN. TOM DASCHLE (D-SD), MAJORITY LEADER: And we will not let this stop the work of the Senate. There will be a vote this afternoon. We will be in session and have a vote or votes tomorrow.
KARL: In session sort of: The Senate side of the Capitol building will be open, but the Senate's three office buildings, where most of the work is done, are closed until Monday. Senate leaders said the anthrax problem was contained, the offending substance detected in only two places, the office where the letter to Daschle was opened in the Hart Senate Office Building and in the Senate mailroom in the adjacent Dirksen Building.
DR. KENNETH MORITSUGU, DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL: At this time, there has been no evidence of spores in the ventilation system.
KARL: About 2,000 Senate staffers have taken nose swab tests. So far just over 30 have tested positive, three of them in the office of Senator Russ Feingold, which is adjacent to Daschle's: the rest, staffers and police who had been inside Daschle's office. Some of those may have exposed each other with a simple act of compassion after the initial discovery of the anthrax letter.
DASCHLE: There were some hugs that you'd expect, and people were hugging each other, and I think maybe in that effort there could have been the transfer from one person to the next as well.
KARL: So far, officials report only exposure to anthrax, not infection. And if anybody is infected, this strain of the bacteria responds to antibiotics.
SEN. BILL FRIST (R), TENNESSEE: And that's good news. That means this thing is eminently treatable.
KARL: All things considered, there was a remarkable calm on Capitol Hill: a press conference on an aviation security bill went forward even after the House announced a shutdown. And on the base of Capitol Hill, rap star M.C. Hammer joined several members of Congress to film a music video.
The video's proceeds will go to the victims of the September 11 attacks.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KARL: Because there's been absolutely no sign of any anthrax exposure outside of the immediate area around Daschle's office, health officials here have suspended all testing, but they are taking the precaution of saying anybody who in either the fifth- or sixth-floor story of the southeast corner of that Hart Office Building, where Daschle's office is, will be on a 60-day regimen of antibiotics to treat them for possible anthrax exposure, Aaron, even if those nose swab tests come back negative.
BROWN: And Jonathan, stay where you are for a bit, a couple of questions, but I want to do the other part of this story, and then we'll come back to you.
Political scientists often say that the two houses of Congress are quite different: the Senate, calmer, more thoughtful; the House, a bit more excitable, more reactive to the moment. There certainly was a time today where that description fit perfectly. For a while this afternoon, the two Houses seemed to be living on a parallel universe, which brings us to Kate Snow, who is covering all of this.
Kate, a long day for you. Thanks for staying with us.
SNOW: Not a problem. Well, House members will tell you, Aaron, that the root of all the problems here, the confusion, was the fact that the senators told them one thing privately last night that raised a lot of concern and then said another thing publicly today when they stepped away from that concern. The senators, on the other hand, will tell you that the problem here was that the information was changing and evolving, and the House members weren't keeping up.
Either way, it led to a very confusing day.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW (voice-over): First the numbers.
HASTERT: ... 29 cases.
REP. DICK GEPHARDT (D-MO), MINORITY LEADER: ... 29 or 30 people who have tested positive.
DASCHLE: ... 31 people now have had positive nasal swabs.
SNOW: By the end of day, the tally was 31, 31 people exposed but not infected. But where was the anthrax exactly? Early on, House Speaker Dennis Hastert set off alarms with this statement.
HASTERT: ... and the discovery that this stuff has gotten into the ventilation system, is going through the tunnels. It was in, you know, the system of those buildings.
SNOW: Two hours later, that was batted down.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have no positive tests, no positive indication of contamination spread within the vent system. SNOW: Even anther senator didn't get the message.
SEN. RICHARD DURBIN (D), ILLINOIS: It's my understanding as well that only one spore was found in the HVAC system.
SNOW: Durbin was corrected. He later told CNN, "I'm getting out of the spore business."
Just about the same time, House Speaker Hastert was trying to clarify his earlier comments.
HASTERT: Sometimes, as you've said, you get misquoted. I said possibility in the tunnels and in the ventilation system.
SNOW: But there's more confusion. At the same news conference, Minority Leader Dick Gephardt defined the anthrax in question.
GEPHARDT: It is a higher-grade, weapon-grade kind of anthrax.
DASCHLE: In all the briefings that I have been in attendance, in which I have been in attendance, not once has anyone used the term weapons-grade.
SNOW: All of this information and counterinformation not very reassuring to hundreds of Capitol Hill staffers who've been tuning in and lining up to be tested.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW: And late in the day, even more questions were raised. If the anthrax did not go into the ventilation system, then how was it that three staffers in the office of Senator Russ Feingold were found to be affected or exposed to the anthrax? The answer, according to the final Senate briefing of the day, is that perhaps the anthrax might have gotten in the air, and passed through stairwells and passed through doorways but even that was sort of a guess and they are not sure if that's a safe bet either.
And Aaron, there are going to be more questions. They warn us tonight that there are still test results that need to come back. They are testing the buildings. As you know they have closed down the House and Senate office buildings. And those 2,000 people that Jonathan mentioned that have been tested and swabbed, all their test results still have yet to come back and they warn us there may be a lot of false positives -- Aaron.
BROWN: So the number is 31. Now both you, Kate and Jonathan -- Jon, let me start with you here, because I think, if I understood both of you, I was writing this down, we have now put forward two theories of how the Feingold staffers might have contracted or been exposed to the anthrax.
So here is question: Does anyone know? .
KARL: ... the junior senator from Tennessee was very candid about this when he said, look, you have a lot of questions, talking to us in the media, and the people have a lot of question. Right now we just don't have all the answers. That is one answer they really don't have.
BROWN: Kate, let me take stab at this: Do you think there is a desire for members of Congress, and you work around these people all the time, to know the answer, to be able to come out and give an answer even if they are not sure of the answer.
SNOW: That's their job, in a sense. They are here to serve the public. They talk a lot, they are lawmakers. They make laws and so yes, I think there is some tendency to at least come forward with what they know as soon as they know it and that may be part of what led to a lot of the confusion today, Aaron.
BROWN: And you know, Kate -- I'm sorry, go ahead, Jon.
KARL: On that point, Senator Daschle had something happen to him twice this week. Major news: The first major news was the mere presence of anthrax in his is office with that letter on Monday. He was waiting to tell his staff over there when the president himself went out and announced it on national television. That was not the intention of Daschle's staff.
They did not want to have the information come out in that way. And then you had the latest news that 29 of his staffers were testing positive. He again did not want that news to be announced by the speaker of the house who came out and said it that way. So there has been a lot of releasing of information that has to do with Tom Daschle about this anthrax scare that he was very unhappy, we are told, or certainly the Senate leadership was very unhappy, got out without them controlling the flow of information.
BROWN: There is nothing easy about this. John, thank you. John and Kate, you have done terrific work today. Thank you for joining us tonight. Our congressional team a busy day up there.
Getting now the question of who is responsible. There is at least one potential break, one potential break there today. Early testing shows the spores found in Florida and at NBC in New York came from the same strain of anthrax. That is not quite the same as saying it came from the same batch, or even the same place. It just means they belong to the same genetic family.
We're also waiting to hear more about the anthrax found in Senator Daschle's office. We've heard it called "weapons grade," which isn't a scientific or a military term. It's been called pure, finely ground, we have heard a lot. We'll try and make sense of what that all means or does not mean. CNN's David Ensor has been working the investigative front today -- David.
DAVID ENSOR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, evidence on who could have sent the anthrax letters may be found in the samples themselves. Evidence that may point investigators to a smart but unbalanced Unabomber type or perhaps to international terrorists. Some first indications are emerging. The maker was sophisticated but not at the cutting edge of biological weapons. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(voice-over): Army scientists at Fort Detrick, Maryland are examining the anthrax for clues and the first good news about the deadly bacteria found in Senator Daschle's office was announced outside the Capitol.
MAJ. GEN. JOHN PARKER, U.S. ARMY: This particular strain of anthrax is sensitive to all antibiotics ; Penicillin all the way through Ciprofloxacin. It's a very sensitive strain. We have not identified the strain at this time.
ENSOR: That means it is not a genetically altered strain resistant to drugs, a level of sophistication only known to have been produced in a weapon to date by the former Soviet Union.
But there is also bad news. Senators say they were told at least some of the Daschle sample was finely ground down, or milled, to powder made up of one to two to three micron particles, the right size to be inhaled or to lodge in the lungs. That would make potentially a more deadly weapon if spread through the air instead of being sent in an envelope.
JAVED ALI, CNN BIOTERRORISM ANALYST: The smaller the particle size, within a certain range, the easier it would be to use as an aerosol.
ENSOR: In 1997 in Utah, a government test showed how easily a fine powder like weapons-grade anthrax could be spread through the air, but experts believe the equipment to mill down anthrax as a weapon plus the knowledge on how first to dry the anthrax spores and then mill them to the optimum size is not widely held.
Finally, government scientists are examining the anthrax samples for traces of other materials.
ALI: There are certain chemical additives that can be used in the process of developing the powdered material and the milled material to ease in the dissemination of that material in the aerosol form.
ENSOR: If those chemicals are found, they, plus the fine-milled anthrax that was found, could suggest involvement by a rogue Russian scientist, or even by a rogue state like Iraq.
But many of the experts are skeptical about that.
JOHN PARACHINI, RAND CORPORATION: There's no evidence that a state is involved at the moment, and certainly not involved in the way that might inflict mass casualties.
ENSOR: Take Iraq, Saddam Hussein's biological weapons program, what was left of it after the Gulf War, was destroyed.
(END VIDEOTAPE) Though U.S. intelligence officials say Iraq's biological weapons program is now back in business, even in its heyday, the Iraqi program produced large amounts of liquid anthrax but never, experts say, got to the point of milling it into a fine and deadly powder -- Aaron.
BROWN: David, I think the question that people perhaps most want answered, is, and I don't think there is one to be honest, at this point do you get the feeling that investigators have a clue who is responsible for this?
ENSOR: No. I don't think they do. They, of course, might not tell us if they did. The only can say it's a pretty sophisticated person who understands biological weapons to some degree at least, not capable of producing a genetically-altered one that could be powerful against penicillin and so on.
So it's really going to be a step-by-step process. We are probably going to get more test results tomorrow that may help us see the future a little bit. But we still can't say whether it is a mad American, or an international terrorist or who it is.
BROWN: And do they have any sense that it is escalating?
ENSOR: There is a sense that there may be more attacks planned either by associates of bin Laden, or by whoever it is that is sending these anthrax envelopes. We don't know if they are the same people or not.
But there is a definite strong sense in the U.S. intelligence community that the threat level remains quite high.
BROWN: David, thank you. CNN's David Ensor has been working the investigative side of this. We will talk with some members of Congress about what went on at the Capitol today and about the issues generally in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: In a string of memorable days this was another one, certainly in Washington D.C., two people who should know about that: Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi from California and Senator Evan Bayh from Indiana. They join us now to talk a bit.
Congresswoman, do you think any of us, politicians, the administration, those of us in the media, have found the right pitch on this, have been able to say what needs to be said, without sugar- coating it but without being alarmist?
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D), CALIFORNIA: I think we are finding our way. I think calm should be the order of day and caution. I think that's where we ended up today and I hope media is there as well. Because certainly we should be concerned about what happened in senator Daschle's office two days ago, Monday, but also -- and we should do what we are doing.
We are sweeping the Capitol and the House office buildings and now I know the Senate as well, but just speaking from our experience on the House side. You will remember we have 435 members to 100 members in the Senate. It takes us a bit longer to move folks out. We have finished are our work. We have done most of our appropriations bills. We have one more to go and the anti-terrorism bill and a little bit more, so we can afford to take tomorrow to sweep those offices.
And that is not to have people be frightened, but actually give them comfort that everything is being done to protect the visitors to the Capitol and office buildings and certainly to our staff as well as members of Congress.
BROWN: Senator Bayh, I said at the beginning of the program tonight that we were told by a couple sources in and around the Congress there was actually discussion today, maybe it was discussing whether to discuss, but in any case the issue was whether there might have be another place for Congress to meet. That is, when you think about it, remarkable. And how can people then say, but just be calm about it?
SEN. EVAN BAYH (D), INDIANA: Well we are living in remarkable times, Aaron and there may have been some preliminary discussion along those lines but I think people pretty quickly settled on a balance that Nancy was describing -- taking this risk seriously, particularly for the staff people who work up here on Capitol Hill, taking every prudent step necessary to protect them, but at the same time reassuring the American people that the business of our government will go on.
The vast, vast majority of Americans are perfectly safe and secure and we are doing everything humanly possible to try and prevent any sort of tragedy from happening. So it is a balance between on the one hand taking it seriously, but on the other had not letting whoever is out there perpetrating this get the wish of paralyzing us or striking undue fear into the American people or into our government.
BROWN: Trying to figure out what's fear and undue fear is a little tricky here. Senator, do you ever step back and go, it is remarkable or frightening or some adjective or another, what a small group of people, presumably or maybe an individual, can do to the United States government? BAYH: It is remarkable. It's function of the age in which we live with instant communications, around-the-clock communications. Part of the confusion you described at the top of your story resulted from the fact that the facts are evolving so quickly.
And there is something else that we learned today. We don't know who is perpetrating this yet. We hope to find out in the fullness of time but it does appear that there are some people hopping on this story, issuing threats, perhaps some from abroad who didn't initiate this attack but are seeking to take advantage by spreading fear and panic. And we simply can't let that happen.
So serious response, prudent response, but reassure the American people that we need to move forward with our business. BROWN: Congresswoman, do you think there are some of your colleagues, be honest with me here, who are scared to walk into the Capitol these days?
PELOSI: Absolutely not. I am being very honest with you. I don't think any of my colleagues are afraid of doing it. You have to remember that the primary goal of terrorists is to instill fear. And we could never let them have that victory. But separate and apart from that, I don't think there is any basis under which our colleagues are afraid to walk into the Capitol.
I think quite the contrary. We are doing was we are doing, taking precautions. Our speaker and our leader, Mr. Gephardt, are taking those precautions to be careful, to be sure, but not because there is any reason that we think that there are any spores or any anthrax in the House side of the Capitol or in the House buildings.
BROWN: We can't know that, can we, right now?
PELOSI: We do not know that it is so. And we are going to find out. That's why we are taking precautions. So you run the risk when you say, we are going to suspend business for a day, and have an environmental sweep of the House buildings. We want to do that with calmness and confidence that we eliminating as much risk as possible.
But that decision did not spring from finding anything and then wanting to go see if there was anything more there. I think if members had choices, they would be here and we would be in session. But as I said, fortunately for us in the House side we finished most of our appropriations bills. We are just about to the end of our session. So taking a day to be sure for the benefit of our visitors, for the benefit of our staff, for the benefit of each other, for the elected representatives of this great democracy doesn't seem too much to do to take one day to do that.
So I don't think anyone is afraid. I think we all feel pretty confident the sweep will be very -- when I say positive I mean with no spores, but nonetheless, we don't know until we check.
BROWN: Fair enough. Thank you for joining us Congresswoman. Senator Bayh, thank you as well. We appreciate your time tonight. We are going take a break here and come back and we will, in a sense, try and get everyone on the same page on anthrax. We will go through some of the basics here so that you are all a little more comfortable with what we are talking about. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: A little after noon today we started hearing rumors that anthrax had been found in the New York City offices of Governor George Pataki. In this case the rumors were true. How they got there remains a mystery.
GOV. GEORGE PATAKI (R), NEW YORK: As a result of this we have closed our state offices the 38th, and 39th floor where my offices are located. Approximately 75 to 80 people work there. They are going to be cleaned. We will begin right now and we are hopeful that by Monday they will be clean and we will be back in the office.
The people in my offices are being given Cipro as prophylactic. I too will be taking Cipro.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: So far no one in the office has tested positive for exposure to anthrax so they are taking the medication to be careful. According to Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the CDC, hear this number, 20,000 people died from the Flu last year -- from the Flu. So if you want to horde something, horde flu vaccine, not Cipro, but panic generally wins out over reason, human nature being what it is. And that is the reason we are going to deal with what we are going to deal with now. Dr. Gilbert Ross is the medical director of the American Council on Science and Health.
Good evening.
DR. GILBERT ROSS, DIRECTOR, AMERICAN COUNCIL ON SCIENCE & HEALTH: Good evening, how are you?
BROWN: I'm fine, a little crazy these days. Look, we have been saying a lot, don't take Cipro unless you need to take it. It's a powerful antibiotic, all of this. There is a broad public health danger, isn't there, to misusing any antibiotic, but certainly this one too?
ROSS: Yes. Most definitely. It is counterproductive for the individual, because it will cause them to grow out organisms that are resistant. These organisms will then get into the public domain and cause infections similar to hospital infections that are very difficult to treat.
Plus every antibiotic as potential allergic reactions or side effects. There is absolutely no reason to take it at this time. Children are particularly susceptible to side effects from Cipro. It can damage joints, pregnant women should ever take it. Plus we know that the anthrax bug is susceptible to many antibiotics, so there is actually no reason to horde any of the antibiotics.
Certainly there will be plentiful antibiotic supplies available if the times comes when they are needed, which is not on the horizon. I don't think these people can cause a major catastrophe.
BROWN: I want to go back just over one thing so it is very clear. These antibiotics, what happens is that the bacteria are really smarts and they figure out, eventually, a way around it?
ROSS: Correct. Exactly, so if you overuse them, if you take it for too long or you take it for a few days and then stop and then take it again, as people who are hording Cipro will tend to do every time they have a sniffle or a headache, they will take three days worth of Cipro. That's the prescription for disaster on a long term basis. That will cause more harm than anthrax will.
BROWN: Now, on this other point. There is a whole range of antibiotics out there, going back to penicillin, which is about as old as I am now, and others and to one degree or another they seem to be effective with some anthrax. Is that fair to say, that it is effective with some, not necessarily with others?
ROSS: I would say almost all natural anthrax bacilli are sensitive to penicillin, tetracyclines, erythromycin, chloramphenicol, and not only Cipro, but its cousin drugs, which are called the fluoroquinolones. So there's absolutely no reason to say Cipro is the drug. If you check the medical letter recommendations, the treatment of choice for disseminated anthrax is penicillin. The only ones that might be resistant to Cipro would be genetically modified by a power that's able to do that.
And I don't think anybody imagines that these terrorists are able to do that. And the sensitivities that we have, as General Parker said at the press conference, show that this bug is sensitive to all of these antibiotics.
So why worry?
(LAUGHTER)
BROWN: That's so easy to say, why worry. Thank you for coming in. We could hardly have been more clear on this tonight. Hopefully, people will -- all of us will listen.
ROSS: I hope so. Thank you.
BROWN: Nice to meet you, sir.
Coming up, look at this a different way -- the reality of what we have to fear. We'll do the math for you when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: If it's true there's only so long a person can hold two completely opposing thoughts in their mind and stay sane, we're all getting quite a workout. Watching one side of the Capitol go about business -- we won't quite say business as usual, but business of a sort -- then seeing the other side shut down is about as good a mixed message as you'll find.
You might want to get used to it. Here's CNN's Bruce Morton.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BUSH: Go down to Disneyworld in Florida. Take your families and enjoy life.
BRUCE MORTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Just live your normal life, our leaders keep saying. But how do you do that when the sky is falling? What? They're closing the House of Representatives?
REP. DENNIS HASTERT (R-IL), HOUSE SPEAKER: The discovery that this stuff has gotten into the ventilation system, is going through the tunnels. REP. DICK GEPHARDT (D-MO), MINORITY LEADER: I think this is the cautious and intelligent and proper, prudent thing to do.
MORTON: OK, but the Senate's the place that had anthrax, and they're not closing.
SEN. TOM DASCHLE (D-SD), MAJORITY LEADER: We will not let this stop the work of the Senate.
MORTON: OK, the sky isn't falling. And we started to learn that positive didn't mean you've got the disease.
DASCHLE: There's a huge difference between a positive nasal swab, which only indicates exposure, of course, and infection.
MORTON: And this wasn't exactly superweapon anthrax either.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This particular strain of anthrax is sensitive to all antibiotics, penicillin all the way through ciprofloxin.
REP. DICK ARMEY (R-TX), MAJORITY LEADER: We have been reassured by the House physician that nobody in the House at this time is facing an imminent threat.
MORTON: But they're leaving. The Senate isn't. And wait now, news from New York, anthrax in Governor Pataki's New York City offices.
GOV. GEORGE PATAKI (R), NEW YORK: As a result of this, we have closed our state offices, the 38th and 39th floors, where my offices are located.
MORTON: And if that weren't enough, the German press agency reported that a police station in Capetown, South Africa was sealed after a package labeled anthrax was delivered to it. Turned out to be a hoax.
So what is the right thing to do? What is normal life this week anyway? Everyone is worried, trying to be careful. They're sweeping news rooms...
SEN. RICHARD DURBIN (D), ILLINOIS: The precautions that are being taken here I think are the right precautions, but to have the press characterize this as some television stations have as an evacuation of Capitol Hill is just plain wrong.
MORTON (on camera): OK, just the House side of Capitol Hill. But where will we be searching next and where is that normal life we're supposed to lead?
One final note, know that on Thursday Publishers' Clearinghouse, the contest people, will be mailing out little packets of detergent. Nothing harmful, of course, but as one police spokesman noted, "The timing of it wasn't very good."
Sure wasn't.
Bruce Morton, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Bad timing, yeah. As Bruce said, a reminder of that old saying, if you're not paranoid, you just don't know what's going on. Now we know, and each story adds a bit to the paranoia. It all may seem a bit much. So now, reporting on the probabilities on anthrax and fear, CNN's Beth Nissen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BETH NISSEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Millions of Americans now know anthrax is not contagious, but fear of anthrax is.
Someone at work spills some sweet and low on a countertop and fear spikes: an unopened envelope can make the hand shake, the heart skip. Yet odds are what many people are most worried about is most unlikely to harm them. Prime example: anthrax infection.
JOHN ALLEN PAULOS, TEMPLE UNIVERSITY: I think we should force ourselves to actually look at the numbers. As perhaps cold as it may seem, there's one person who has died. They have killed only one person and only a couple of people have suffered cutaneous anthrax.
NISSEN: The most recent reported cases involve a detectable, treatable form of anthrax, apparently sent in a handful of envelopes among the 680 million pieces of U.S. mail delivered every day.
PAULOS: A little arithmetic can sometimes dispel a lot of anxiety. The likelihood of receiving an anthrax letter and developing anthrax is extraordinarily small.
NISSEN: On some level, most people know that, yet the longest odds don't erase the deepest fears.
PAULOS: These are special circumstances and it's not just the raw probability that affects people. I mean, risks that are unfamiliar, risks that we have little control over we find more frightening.
NISSEN: Fear of the unseen, the unknown, the unfamiliar can skew people's sense of real risk, relative risk.
Prime example: flying. Since September 11th, millions of Americans have seen commercial airline flights as high risk. To avoid that risk many Americans have opted to drive long distances.
PAULOS: They're worrying about a risk and incurring other risks which are orders of magnitude greater. Driving is more dangerous than flying and especially if you travel long distances.
NISSEN: Even after the horror of September 11th, the number of Americans killed in commercial airplane crashes so far this year totals about 300. The number of people killed in car crashes on the nation's roads: 42,000 a year.
Perceptions of risks are also affected by headlines and special reports. New risks seem more immediate, more threatening than familiar risks that are far more common, more deadly.
The terrorist attacks on September 11th killed more than 5,000 people, but every year 80 times that number -- 400,000 Americans -- die from tobacco-related illnesses. The biggest killers of Americans are heart disease, cancer, obesity.
PAULOS: I think we have to keep our heads about us and realize that driving, drinking, smoking, all these boring things that we're perhaps tired of hearing about, constitute a much greater risk.
NISSEN: The very act of worrying about terrorism might do a person more harm than terrorism. Stress can cause strokes and heart attacks, can worsen ulcers, asthma, any illness, can disrupt sleep and lower resistance. Unchecked worry might even be a national security issue.
PAULOS: Whoever's doing this seems to be trying to induce us a kind of mass hysteria, which I think is our patriotic duty to resist.
NISSEN: Even now, especially now, public panic is a risk both great and real.
Beth Nissen, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: That's the anthrax story. Coming up, the story of the war. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: President Bush found out about the new anthrax exposures in Washington early this morning from Senator Tom Daschle himself. Didn't stop the president from leaving for a summit in China. In fact, it seemed to give him even more resolve as he left for a trip some people didn't think he should take. The president says he can run the war just fine from overseas, and it is a war that appears to be evolving.
And here's CNN military affairs correspondent Jamie Mcintyre.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With every known surface-to-air missile site in Afghanistan now knocked out by U.S. bombs and missiles, American warplanes have trained their sights full- bore on Taliban barracks and troop garrisons, such as these hit Tuesday near Kandahar. U.S. Navy planes now flying off three carriers in the Indian Ocean have begun patrolling specified kill boxes or what the military describes more precisely as "engagement zones."
REAR ADMIRAL JOHN STUFFLEBEEM, DIRECTOR, JOINT STAFF DEPUTY OPERATIONS: Within an engagement zone, targets are predetermined by type. And there's a controller in that area who has the ability to positively ID those targets and then can bring in under his control those aircraft to destroy those.
MCINTYRE: For example, a spotter in an F-14 sees a Taliban tank. After confirming the target is legitimate, he clears an F-18 to destroy it with a laser-guided bomb.
As more AC-130 gunships attack ground targets with canon fire, the U.S. continues to beef up its strike forces in the region, moving more F-15s to bases in the Persian Gulf. And sources say some F-15/Es flying from Kuwait were part of the attack plan for day 11.
Pentagon sources say strike aircraft from the newly arrived carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt were also in the mix, in addition to planes from the carriers Enterprise and Carl Vinson. A fourth carrier, the USS Kitty Hawk, which left Japan without most of its planes, picked up special operations troops and helicopters a few days ago, sources say, and is ready in case commando raids are ordered.
There are still Taliban troops in frontline positions that have not been attacked by the United States, frustrating opposition forces who have yet to make significant battlefield gains or recapture the strategic northern town of Mazar-e-Sharif.
Meanwhile, in broadcasts from a flying radio station, the U.S. is telling the Taliban, quote: "You are condemned. Our helicopters will rain fire down upon your camps," the propaganda message says. "Our bombs are so accurate we can drop them right through your windows. Our infantry is trained for any climate and terrain on Earth."
It concludes: "You have only one choice: surrender now."
(on camera): The Pentagon has brushed off the concerns of various humanitarian aid groups who say they need a pause in the bombing to deliver food and medicine to long-suffering Afghans. Pentagon officials argue it's the Taliban who have confiscated some of the stockpiles of the International Red Cross who are blocking the aid delivery, not the U.S. bombing campaign.
Jamie McIntyre, CNN, the Pentagon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Secretary of State Powell got to Shanghai ahead of the president. He arrived there after a round of difficult diplomacy between India and Pakistan, one of those things that is much easier said than done. For that and all the rest of the developments in the region, as we've come to call it, we turn again to CNN's Christiane Amanpour. CHRISTIANE is in Islamabad. Christiane.
AMANPOUR: Well, Aaron, this being the central diplomatic heart of this campaign on terrorism, Secretary Powell came here to try to shore up support for the war on terrorism and also to keep the tensions cool on a local dispute, a very dangerous potential dispute, between India and Pakistan. Yesterday, Colin Powell was in India, or rather today your time was in India, and he left to go on to the APEC summit in Shanghai. But in India, meeting with officials, he signed new cooperation agreements on the fight against terrorism and again tried to cool tensions, strictly ordered by President Bush, asking India and Pakistan to stand down over Kashmir. The day before he had tried to do the same in Pakistan when he met with the Pakistani president, Musharraf, who has stood with the United States in this war on terrorism. The United States not wanting to see any flare-up of Kashmir.
But it had just happened an hour before Powell arrived in this region that the Indians had launched some shelling and firing across the Kashmiri border, and subsequently Pakistan has put its troops on high alert, saying that it has detected unusual military movement by India, warning India that it is carefully monitoring the situation and warning India that it would thwart what it called any attempt at misadventure or mischief.
India immediately said that it had made no unusual military movements, just normal troop rotations.
So just so show you that the war of words is certainly heating up, with both sides here trying to send each other messages, both sides trying to claim a close alliance with the United States, and India not wanting the U.N. to put Pakistan ahead of its strong alliance with India -- Aaron.
BROWN: Christiane, on another matter, has it been calm in Pakistan this week, not the demonstrations that we saw last week, or have we just not noticed them?
AMANPOUR: There haven't been as many demonstrations, which you might find extraordinary given the fact that all these demonstrations have claimed to be anti-American. And when Secretary Powell came here, there weren't that many demonstrations.
Again, just to put those demonstrations into perspective, as we know, they are a real small minority of the population in this very, very large country. But just to say that people's passions, of course, do get slightly more inflamed the longer the bombing campaign goes on, and when they do see these pictures of certain civilian casualties. Of course, there aren't any pictures being broadcast of military targets. So all they get to see in this region are when there are pictures sent out of Afghanistan of any civilian casualties -- Aaron.
BROWN: Christiane, thanks. Christiane Amanpour in Islamabad. We'll see you tomorrow afternoon. Thank you.
Still ahead from us tonight, a normal guy who became a hero and in the process shattered a stereotype. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: We've seen it again and again that the disaster of September 11 didn't discriminate. Waitresses, executives, Muslims, people from all over the world, gone in an instant. It also made heroes out of every kind of person. Here's CNN's Maria Hinojosa.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARIA HINOJOSA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Mark Bingham's true ambition...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is Mark Bingham, he is our gracious host.
HINOJOSA: ... was to be consumed by the intensity of life with breaking out of the box.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am very happy to surrounded by all of my friends.
HINOJOSA: He ran with the bulls in Spain.
ALICE HOGLIN, BINGHAM'S MOTHER: He got hoisted up and got carried along between the horns of this huge bull, and then thrown down and his buddies ran up to him and said dude, that was awesome.
HINOJOSA: And once stood up to a mugger.
TODD SARNER, BINGHAM'S FRIEND: Mark was kind of bar hopping with some friends and some guys jumped out with a gun and Mark, the first thing he did was to jump in front of the gun to protect his friends.
HINOJOSA: Then, on September 11, on United flight 93, Bingham pushed the envelope one more time, standing up to armed hijackers, the story goes, on a plane aimed for Washington.
HOGLIN: I knew Mark was a hero before this went on, but I'm glad that he was able to do something that would save many hundreds, maybe thousands of lives. It makes me very proud, it helps me deal with the grief that we are feeling.
HINOJOSA: He became a standard-issue hero, but this six foot four jock had defied convention one more time. Along with his traditional male bravado, his rugby playing and fabled wine drinking, Mark Bingham was also gay.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: I may very well owe my life to Mark. HINOJOSA: Someone now worthy of consideration for the Congressional Medal for Bravery, who in death, as he had in life, had defied all the stereotypes.
HOGLIN: The stereotypes that I had about gay people flew right out the window when I found out he was gay.
HINOJOSA: And by doing so has cast a spotlight on conventional heroism itself. One of the plane's was gay and so were some of the victims of the attack including firefighters and police officers. MATT FOREMAN, EMPIRE STATE PRIDE AGENDA: It's such a common perception that gay people aren't manly, aren't brave and all of these people were extremely brave, extremely heroic, giving themselves, sacrificing themselves.
HINOJOSA: In an era when gays are not welcome in the military and reviled by some conservatives, the gay heroes of this attack have exposed many contradictions.
EDGAR RODRIGUEZ, GAY OFFICERS ACTION LEAGUE: If I was killed in the line of duty, my partner would not get more than half the benefits that my coworker might get if they were married.
HINOJOSA: And that has Republican politicians responding with accolades.
MAYOR RUDY GIULIANI (R), NEW YORK: Mark was openly gay. But at that terrible moment of decision his sexual orientation hardly mattered.
HINOJOSA: And promises.
PATAKI: I'm signing an executive order changing that functioning of the crime-victims board so that gay and lesbian couple will not undergo that type of discrimination.
HINOJOSA: For men like 19-year veteran Tom Ryan, who spends his days at Ground Zero, there is sadness that gay firefighters get recognition yet are still afraid of coming out like him.
TOM RYAN, NYC FIREFIGHTER: They are in there doing jobs that no one else will do, the worst of the worst digging and identifying body parts and everything else, but they won't come out as a gay person.
HINOJOSA: He hopes that the work of so many gay heroes will make things better, that Mark Bingham's life and death will fly in the face of prejudice.
Maria Hinojosa, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: We showed you a little glimpse of this earlier. We want to run the whole thing earlier. Now the artist formerly known as M.C. Hammer, just Hammer now, was on Capitol Hill today filming a song, "No Stopping Us, U.S.A" It is to benefit the families of World Trade Center victims. Hammer calls it not a song of mourning, but a warning to the countries enemies. If you haven't smiled yet today, stay with us. Here we go.
(MUSIC, HAMMER, "NO STOPPING US, USA")
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are a nation of diversity, many ethnicities, many religions, different skin colors: red, yellow, brown, black, and white, but our diversity is our strength. We have been tested time and time again. We will prevail, U.S.A. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is no stopping us, U.S.A.
BROWN: It is just one of those things that we liked that happened today. There wasn't that much that we liked today.
We will update the events around the world in just a moment. We will be right back.
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