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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown
America Strikes Back: The Anthrax Investigation
Aired October 18, 2001 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again, everyone. Here's how strange the world is right now. Two more cases of anthrax were confirmed today. The House of Representatives shut down so the place could be swept for the bacteria, bombs were dropping in Afghanistan, and it felt like a slow news day.
The unthinkable has become routine in two weeks' time. We get a warm, fuzzy feeling when we find out it is only skin anthrax. Talk about human adaptability. Last night we worried we'd scare you to death. Tonight, with only two cases of anthrax to report, we worry you'll hit the remote.
Well, it played out just the way the bioterrorists planned it. The anthrax his CBS news, and that got most of the attention. An assistant to Dan Rather is expected to recover. In fact, she was at work today.
On Capitol Hill, senators tried to legislate, or at least look like it, out of those few Capitol offices that were still open. No legislating from House members today though, who faced the wrath of the headline writers at the "New York Post." The cover, in a word, "Wimps."
And down at ground zero, a man described by one magazine this week as "sighted less often than Elvis," Vice President Dick Cheney emerged. The president, of course, 7,000 miles away tonight, in China.
There was some good news out of the Senate today. The number of those exposed didn't move higher than 31. Congressional correspondent Jonathan Karl starts our whip-around with the latest -- Jonathan.
JONATHAN KARL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And with that news, the anthrax bacteria up here seems to be both contained and manageable. And Senate leaders announced something of an all-clear, or more accurately, an almost all-clear, as the Senate buildings remain sealed off and will be all weekend, until a comprehensive battery of tests can be completed.
BROWN: Thanks for the headline. We'll get back to you in a bit.
It is now about 10:00 in the morning in Shanghai, where the president is. So is our senior White House correspondent, John King. John, the headline from China? JOHN KING, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, every day a little bit of history being made. And consider this thought: just moments ago, the president of the United States, the commander in chief of that allied air campaign over Afghanistan, participated in secure video conference with his national security team from here in Shanghai, the capitalist capital, if you can call it that, of communist China.
The main event today, the president has his first one-on-one meeting with Jiang Zemin, the leader of China. Obviously, the war a terrorism will dominate those discussions. But U.S. officials say the president will also raise continuing U.S. concerns about China's human rights record.
BROWN: John, we'll be back with you and the president shortly. The headline now on the military action in Afghanistan, CNN's Christiane Amanpour -- Christiane.
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, a heavy night of bombing being reported from our sources in Kabul and in Kandahar. Although military targets overnight and yesterday had been struck, there are also reports of civilian damage, including damage to a CNN office in Kandahar. No casualties there.
We are waiting here to see whether Friday in Islamabad and around Pakistan will have the same angry street demonstrations, protesting this war -- Aaron.
BROWN: Christiane, back with you, too, in a bit.
But anthrax first. Two cases in our own backyard today: a postal worker who very possibly handled the anthrax letters delivered to either Tom Brokaw or Senator Tom Daschle, and an assistant to CBS's Dan Rather, a woman who, among other duties, opened his mail. That was back in the days when those of us who do this for a living were actually allowed to receive mail, which we aren't now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: This is the CBS Evening News.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN (voice-over): In a way, it seemed inevitable.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: From CBS news headquarters in New York...
DAN RATHER, CBS REPORTER: Good evening. Two more case of anthrax were confirmed today, both of them women. One works at a New Jersey post office that handled two letters containing anthrax, the other works in my office as my assistant...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Today it was CBS.
ANDREW HEYWARD, PRESIDENT, CBS NEWS: She is doing fine. She feels great. She's been on antibiotics for a couple of days now, and her prognosis is excellent.
BROWN: The President of CBS News, Andrew Heyward, recited what by now has become a discomforting pattern.
HEYWARD: She had a little irritation on her skin, which she was already getting treated. And then, given the scare last week, we, taking every precaution, had her tested. And test has come back positive.
BROWN: And we saw this again, senior police and public health officials heading into a network news headquarters.
DR. STEPHEN OSTROFF, CDC: What I'm trained to do is look at patterns of diseases. Certainly the pattern here appears to be essentially identical to the pattern in the other two news organizations, and by all intents and purposes, happens sometime in late September. There seems to be little question about that.
BROWN: It was only last Friday, just six days ago, when the country first learned that network news divisions were targets of this anthrax attack. An assistant to NBC News anchor Tom Brokaw and then, the infant son of an ABC News producer, who was brought to a birthday party at the network's headquarters in New York.
Today, for Dan Rather, at least one motive was obvious.
RATHER: Participant of this is psychological warfare. There is an intent to harm people with the anthrax directly. One reasonable belief is that those who are responsible for spreading the anthrax, perhaps as important or more important to them, is the psychological effect that it will have.
BROWN: Just as chilling today: one female worker at this New Jersey post office, where anthrax-laden letters were sent to NBC and to Senator Tom Daschle also tested positive for skin anthrax. Those letters, police said, may contain some clues: the bar codes at the bottom give a date and an approximate time they were processed.
ACTING GOV. DONALD DIFRANCESCO, NEW JERSEY: Every day we deal with new incidents. Every day state government is responding to these incidents. I'm here to deliver a message to the people that -- what they are doing is nothing short of treason.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: One late development on the letter carrier. CNN's Eileen O'Connor is reporting that federal agents are scouring her route, looking for suspects. For a bit more now on where the investigation is headed, a senior law enforcement official, one who knows the details, as well as the larger picture. He's telling CNN, "you've got to believe it is all coming from the same source." That's a quote.
The CDC confirms that spores from the letter found at NBC are similar to the spores found in the Florida case. Sources are telling CNN, the Washington sample may match as well. Spores from all three sample are about the same size, five microns or less. It takes considerable know-how to make them that small.
We're still waiting to find out about the material from CBS, ABC and Governor Pataki's office. For a variety of reasons, those are going to be harder to analyze.
On Capitol Hill today, it was another day of business, very much unusual. Senators temporarily out of their offices, working in a half-empty building, alongside House colleagues, who weren't there at all. We also heard from the president's point man on homeland defense for the first time, after a week on the job.
Jonathan Karl back in Washington joins us again. Jonathan, Good evening.
KARL: Good evening, Aaron. And that point man, former Pennsylvania Governor Tom Ridge, said he could do what has been nearly the impossible so far in Washington, and that is bring together competing Washington bureaucracies that sometimes are at war with each other, and make them work effectively in the fight against terrorism.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(voice-over): Flanked by top law enforcement and public health officials, Tom Ridge used his debut to reassure Americans that he will marshal the full power of the federal government to protect the homeland.
TOM RIDGE, HOMELAND SECURITY DIRECTOR: The American people can have confidence that their government is working around the clock to protect them.
KARL: At Ridge's side, the FBI director offered a new tool to fight the latest terrorist threat.
ROBERT MUELLER, FBI DIRECTOR: Announce a reward of up to $1 million, for information leading to the arrest and conviction of those responsible for terrorist acts of mailing anthrax.
KARL: On Capitol Hill, senators also sought to send a message of reassurance, even as the anthrax scare forced a shutdown of their office buildings.
The opening prayer of the Senate chaplain captured the moment.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lord, those who have tried create panic with anthrax letters and threatening phone calls, have failed.
KARL: Only senators with some seniority have rooms inside the Capitol buildings. Called hideaways, they are usually a small, private place to do a little work between votes. But on this day, they were crammed full of staff with no other place to go.
As the Senate moved on with a modest agenda, one vote and couple of committee hearings, the senators received good news on the anthrax front.
SEN. TOM DASCHLE (D-SD), MAJORITY LEADER: Beyond the 31 positive nasal swabs that I reported yesterday, the results on nasal swabs analyzed to date have all -- let me emphasize, all -- come back negative.
KARL: In other words, with preliminary results in from nearly 900 tests, there's no sign of anthrax exposure beyond the immediate area around Senator Daschle's office. Also, still no sign of anthrax in the ventilation system.
But for those who were in the vicinity of Daschle's office, an extraordinary precaution: 60 days worth of antibiotics.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're taken it for a one week regiment, which I think everybody is willing to take. And then this is an extra, extra precaution to say you have to take it for 60 days, even if you have been tested positive.
KARL: Over on the House side of the Capitol, a ghost town. Although health experts couldn't explain why House leaders opted for a shutdown.
QUESTION: ... then, why is this side of the Capitol closed?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good questioned. I don't have an answer for that at this time.
(LAUGHTER)
KARL: House leaders, stung by criticism, including this booming headline in the "New York Post," shot back hard.
REP. RICHARD GEPHARDT (D-MO), MINORITY SPEAKER: People have asked me all day, well, what message does send to terrorists? Well, what message would it send to terrorist if we stupidly put people back in harm's way to be infected by anthrax. That hardly to me is an intelligent response.
KARL: Gephardt went on to say something that simply astounded the Senate leadership. He said that there was a possibility that anthrax could get onto somebody's clothes, go into the Capitol building and that -- quote -- "the spores could replicate themselves."
This was very strange, because the Senate and the public health officials had just held a briefing saying that scenario was something that they had absolutely no evidence could happen, and they believe there was no threat whatsoever, that the spores, the anthrax found over in the Hart office building could make its way to the Capitol itself -- Aaron.
BROWN: Well, Mr. Gephardt sounds a bit defensive here. Was it your sense that the House was a little bit embarrassed and a little bit defensive by its performance over the last couple of days?
KARL: Well, the House really feels that they have been kind of set up for this by the Senate. They were under the understanding, as we've talked about, Aaron, that the Senate was going to shut down. They felt they were following the Senate's lead. They get out and they announce their shut down, and then it turns out that the Senate is going to make this great stand, this symbolic stand, and stay in session. So they really feel like they were left out in the cold on this. So there's clearly a lot of that going on, but it's just astounding to hear the level of anger between the Senate and the House, publicly.
And one other thing that Gephardt, as he said again, that that anthrax in Daschle's letter was weapons grade. This, after Daschle himself came out and said, no, they've never used that term, never heard anybody use it at all.
BROWN: And yesterday, Speaker Hastert described the anthrax as getting in the ventilation system, which, as far as we know, is not true either?
KARL: They came out again and said there's absolutely no sign it's been in the ventilation system. But I will tell you that that Monday night, when the decision was made Tuesday morning to close down the house, that Monday night, the Senate leadership told Hastert that they thought there was a good chance it was in the ventilation system. But at that point, they did not have all the information they have now.
And by the way, Aaron, it may turn out that there are some spores in the ventilation system. Senate leadership and the health officials are saying that's a possibility.
BROWN: It may turn out that way, but that's not where we are now.
KARL: Not at all.
BROWN: Jonathan Karl on the Hill tonight. When come back, we'll go to Shanghai, the latest on the president's trip to Asia. This SPECIAL REPORT continues in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Back when it was planned, the president's Asian trip had great political potential. There, he would be in Asia, talking tough about trade with the Japanese, talking tough, period, with the Chinese. Good pictures, good moments. Pre-September 11th moments.
Tonight the president is in China, looking for Chinese help in the war against terror, and the Japan and Korea legs of the trip, canceled. Our senior White House correspondent John King is traveling with the president, the president's first trip ever to Asia. John joins us now from Shanghai tonight -- John.
KING: Well, Aaron, also his first face-to-face meeting with the Chinese President Jiang Zemin. Just a short ways away here in Shanghai, where it is already Friday morning. Think back just a few months. Remember the tensions with China, over the EP-3 surveillance plane issue, the standoff over that. Mr. Bush, instead, though, promising a new chapter in U.S.-China relations -- that incident all but forgotten.
As you noted, he very much wants Chinese support, both publicly and behind the scenes. Public support for the war on terrorism, perhaps some help with intelligence information, behind the scenes. Although U.S. officials do say he will raise, but respectfully, they say, continuing concerns over China's human rights records, as well as weapons proliferations issues, weapons sales issues, from China to other countries.
The president already this morning has had a video conference with his national security council. On hand here in Shanghai, his National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice, and Secretary of State Colin Powell. Others back at the Pentagon and elsewhere, participating over that secure video conference.
And he also spoke, Aaron, with the Pennsylvania governor, the former governor, Tom Ridge. As noted in Jon Karl's report, he held a detailed briefing yesterday about the government's efforts to keep track of the anthrax cases, and other steps on what is called now the homeland security front. The president, we are told, satisfied that under Governor Ridge and others, the government not only is moving ahead with those investigations, but striking the right balance and trying to share information with the public, without being too alarmist.
The main event here will be the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation Forum -- an economic club. But again, the focus on the war on terrorism. The president hoping for a strong condemnation of terrorism from the group, and firm commitments of more help, especially on the financial front, in tracking down, freezing and in some cases, seizing the assets of suspected terrorist groups -- Aaron.
BROWN: Jon, this -- are there reasons why the Chinese might be sympathetic to the president's pleas on terror?
KING: Well, certainly. The Chinese would say that they have their own terrorism problems. They also have some Muslim communities in that part of the country. It has a border with Afghanistan, so the Chinese say that they will be cooperative, and there's some sympathy there.
No one expects formal, straight-up Chinese help in this matter. Pakistan more important, the United States would say. Russia, more important on the intelligence side. But certainly, strong statements of support from President Jiang would be very important to the United States. U.S. officials say there is some intelligence information they can get, but they don't expect -- the Chinese are not the most important partner, if you will, in the war on terrorism.
But certainly, it is a permanent member of the United Nations Security Council. As the war on terrorism expands, perhaps to other countries, there could be issues in the Security Council as well. So good relations with the Chinese in this matter, quite important, perhaps much more down the road, than in the days and weeks ahead.
BROWN: John, thank you. Our senior White House correspondent John king in shanghai tonight.
Some, as we've said earlier, questioned whether the president should leave the country at all while the United States is at war, while the country is facing an anthrax scare that shut down the House of Representatives.
All of that today, so out in public, the vice president. He's been very much out of the public eye since September 11th. Vice President Cheney was in New York, his first visit to ground zero today. New York's Mayor Rudy Giuliani was with him. So was New York Governor George Pataki, who had to close his Manhattan office yesterday because of an anthrax issue.
The vice president said what everyone says, or at least thinks, when you actually see that destruction up close: "None of us has seen anything like this."
And tonight, the vice president delivered the keynote address at the Alfred E. Smith memorial dinner, at the Waldorf Astoria hotel in New York. Usually a light-hearted affair, some of it was somber, understandably, tonight, except the part when it seemed like a coming out party for the vice president.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We haven't been out much lately.
(LAUGHTER)
CHENEY: And the Waldorf is a lot nicer than our cave.
(LAUGHTER)
CHENEY: There's been a good deal of speculation about our whereabouts in recent days. I might as well address the rumors right here tonight: We have not actually been living in a cave. And no, I did the not sneak out for cosmetic surgery.
(LAUGHTER)
CHENEY: Although I'm not prepared to rule that out as an option.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: The vice president in New York tonight.
It may seem hard to imagine that someone could cause any more damage with a plane than they did on September 11th. Now we know you have to imagine some. That's why there's a lot of focus now, on nuclear power plants. Yesterday the three-mile island plant went on heightened alert after receiving threats -- threats dismissed today, but security still very tight at nuclear power plants around the country. Here's CNN's Boston bureau chief, Bill Delaney.
BILL DELANEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The predawn shift change at the Seabrook Nuclear Power Plant, along the New Hampshire coast. On high alert, like all the country's 103 nuclear plants: more perimeter security, public access, severely restricted.
How much security, though, is enough?
(on camera): Every nuclear power plant has a security force, well-trained, well-armed. But according to a new study by the Project on Government Oversight, government exercises, conducted in recent years to challenge plant security, repeatedly breached plant security at nuclear power plants around the country.
(voice-over): Some experts now also worry about an attack from the air, at a nuclear plant like Indian Point, north of New York City. An attack there, potentially causing a radioactive cloud for hundreds of miles, more devastating than even jets hitting the World Trade Center.
GORDON THOMPSON, RESOURCE & SECURITY: They're not designed to withstand impact of commercial aircraft. There'd be a radioactive plume. The plume would contaminate vast areas downwind, and people could then have fatal cancers for decades thereafter.
DELANEY: Power plant security, the nuclear industry says, is intense, sophisticated. Power plant buildings, as fortified as any on earth. Many were designed, like Seabrook, when commercial jets weren't as large as now, though officials say Seabrook could withstand the jets that hit the World Trade Center.
ALLEN GRIFFITH, SEABROOK POWER: We are in daily contact with local, state, federal law enforcement agencies, so that we are making decisions that are based on real-time information and intelligence. So we're very confident that we have a safe and secure installation here at Seabrook.
DELANEY: Seabrook officials do acknowledge their reactor core is more protected than nuclear waste, spent fuel. The waste pool is 30 fortified feet underground, but nuclear power experts like Gordon Thompson say even that's not good enough to protect spent fuel, which is any plant's most radioactive substance.
Spent fuel could ignite, critics say, spreading radiation, where water that cools it drained off, as a result, say, of the crash of a big commercial jet.
THOMPSON: The best approach is to protect the spent fuel, which is the biggest hazard, by transferring it as rapidly as possible from the pools, where it can catch fire if water is lost, to highly secure casks dispersed across the reactor sites and protected by earth berms. DELANEY: Measures nuclear critics hope now may get more attention at proposed Congressional hearings on nuclear plant safety. For now, though, formidable as nuclear power plants are, alleged vulnerabilities, too.
Bill Delaney, CNN, Seabrook, New Hampshire.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Up next from us, the critics get their chance: whether the media are telling you what you need know, or feeding fear for their own gain. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: A few years back, a media critic wrote a book called "Amusing Ourselves to Death." The premise was, we're bombarded with news, and none of it is serious. These days, we're still bombarded with news, but all of it seems quite serious. And if my e-mail is an indication, there is a pretty fierce debate going on out there about whether all of us in the news business are trying to scare the country to death, for ratings.
We'll talk with two media critics about that in a moment, but first some background from CNN's Anne McDermott.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNE MCDERMOTT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): You can't get away from it: anthrax. It's on TV, the tabloids, and newspapers around the world. You can't get away from it. And it's scary.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I mean, it's just like an onslaught of like, fear.
MCDERMOTT: But it's also teaching people about a subject most knew nothing about.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The media is educating people.
MCDERMOTT: But sometimes, perhaps, it may be just confusing people. The televised evacuation at a Colorado post office was prompted because powder was found inside, powder that turned out to be pudding mix.
The frenzy is now a parody. This is "The Daily Show's" "America Freaks Out." And some have been -- well, if not freaking out, at least anxious and edgy over all the TV coverage.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It causes anxiety for me, so I choose not to watch it. I check in once a week.
MCDERMOTT: And for nerves already frayed by the unthinkable, rumored anthrax, real anthrax just adds to the anguish. And a psychologist says those folks should turn the TV off. EVELYN KOHAN, PSYCHOLOGIST: If you keep pulling the scab off the wound, you will continue to bleed, and it's not in your best interest to do so.
MCDERMOTT: Dan Rather on "LARRY KING LIVE" said the anthrax story deserves the attention it's getting, to a point.
RATHER: Psychological warfare is very important part of anybody's campaign to break the enemy will to resist. All of that is certainly in the picture, but it's just -- my sense is that this has been a bit over-reported in the last few days.
MCDERMOTT: CNN's Wolf Blitzer had this view.
WOLF BLITZER, HOST, "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS": I know that there is this fear out there, but I think we are doing our viewers a service. They want to know about this, and we're responsible in trying to give them the information.
MCDERMOTT: Yes, it is scary, as Tom Brokaw learned when his assistant tested positive for anthrax.
TOM BROKAW, NBC NEWS: This is so unfair and so outrageous.
MCDERMOTT: And so unusual. And, so, says a scientist, we ought not to panic.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Every little sniffle is not going to be anthrax.
MCDERMOTT: Not so far, anyway.
Anne McDermott, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: We're joined now by Jake Tapper, the Washington correspondent for Salon.com, and Howard Kurtz, media critic for "The Washington Post" and host of CNN's "RELIABLE SOURCES."
Good evening to both of you. Howard, the three bears question: where anthrax is concerned, too much, too little, or just about right?
HOWARD KURTZ, "WASHINGTON POST": I'd have to say too much. I mean, clearly this is an important story that ought to be covered seriously, aggressively, and completely by journalists. No question about that, Aaron.
But when you have gas masks on the cover of "TIME" and "Newsweek," when you have 23 hours of coverage a day on the cable news networks, when you have 17 anthrax stories just today in "The Washington Post" and 15 in "The New York Times," I think the unintentional effect, because of the tone and the volume and the sheer relentlessness of this coverage, is to scare a lot of people. I don't think the media are doing that deliberately, but I think it's undeniable at this point that that is the effect. BROWN: And, Jake, take a whack at that, too, just quickly. Too much, too little, about right?
JAKE TAPPER, SALON.COM: I think it's about right. Look, this is a terrifying thing that's going on. There are bioterrorist incidents, six incidents of people contracting anthrax, dozens of people exposed to it. I think the media is simply doing it's job, much better than the federal government is doing its job, I might add. There are all sorts of conflicting messages coming from Capitol Hill, coming, from the Bush administration. They're the ones who I -- I'm more troubled by than the media.
BROWN: Let me throw out, in a sense, my own bias in this, because it occurred to me yesterday that there is a war going on over in Afghanistan. And part of the problem is, it's not a very visual war. Howard, do you think that, in any sense, contributes to the way all of us, newspapers, television, all of us, are covering anthrax?
KURTZ: Yeah, I think if it were great technical pictures of bombs dropping and fighting going on at the ground level, that that would be on the air a lot more. In fact, I've been stunned to the extent to which the war in Afghanistan has been almost totally overshadowed in the last six, seven days, by the anthrax story.
Now, sure it's unnerving, sure, it's scary, particularly the incident in Senator Daschle's office. But I also think, Aaron, that the fact that so many news organizations and prominent journalists have been targeted -- when you've got Tom Brokaw talking on the air today, Dan Rather addressing the fact that his assistant got anthrax -- whoever did this knew that they would reap a lot of publicity by targeting, at least in part, the media. I think that part has worked.
And I think we all need to be careful about not stepping on the gas pedal with quite the force that we're doing right now.
BROWN: Because, if we do what?
TAPPER: Because people take their cues from the media. And I think if we treat this like World War III when, in fact, regrettable as it is, we've got one person dead and six people infected, we ratchet up the tension level.
One concrete suggestion I would make is, don't report on scares until it's confirmed to be anthrax. A columnist at "The Washington Post" got a letter with similar handwriting to those received by Daschle and Brokaw with a St. Petersburg postmark. We hadn't reported that because we sent it off to be tested. We don't know. It may turn out to be just a false alarm.
BROWN: Jake, that's an interesting one. Are there not -- we have literally -- I have literally struggled with that on the air in front of viewers yesterday afternoon. I was in the middle of reporting something, and I ended it by saying, "I'm not sure we should have done that at all." At what point ought we not do it? At the point where it's unknown what it is, or should we do that? TAPPER: No, I think so many false alarms -- I would agree with Howard. There are so many false alarms. Right now I think you have to take the precaution and report it when something has been confirmed. Because otherwise you are just going to be covering every false alarm. Every time somebody stumbles upon some pudding powder, which is one of the things we just saw that caused an alarm.
I also want to say that I do think that because this is at home, this is another domestic experience that we are going through right now, the international coverage that we should be having -- that we had last week -- is suffering. There are very many significant things going on in the Middle East right now: in Israel, between the Palestinian Authority and Israel, and there are all sorts of other strange thing having to do with our coalition that I wish the networks were covering more.
That's not to say that they shouldn't be covering anthrax, but they are doing it at the expense of this other stuff.
BROWN: I think all of us would agree that that has been a weak point for a lot of news organizations for a long time: not paying enough attention to the world, and perhaps to some degree we are paying for that now. Agree?
KURTZ: I think also we are -- excuse me -- to some extent I don't want to fully blame the media, because we are the captives. We are the message deliverers for what politicians do. When the House shuts down, even though the anthrax was found in the Senate, obviously that's a story that has to be covered.
When the mayor of Baltimore goes on television, as he did yesterday, and said he had information that the city might come under attack at 1:15 p.m. and much of the city shuts down, you cannot not cover that and say it's just a false alarm.
There's a lot of blame to go around, but the e-mail I'm getting is very strong in the favor of the fact that people think that we in the press are whipping up fear and anxiety. I don't think we're doing that deliberately, but I do think we need to keep this in perspective.
BROWN: Quickly, Howard. On balance, would you give the media pretty good grades on how we have all handled what is clearly the story of a lifetime?
KURTZ: I think the coverage of the September 11th attacks was very good, very responsible, very restrained. I think the coverage of the war was very good. I think the coverage of anthrax has been not as good. I think that's a little bit too much sensationalism along with the legitimate reporting.
BROWN: Howard, Jake, thanks for coming in. We should do this periodically. This is obviously going to go on for a while. We will stumble some and we will probably do some things well. Thanks for coming in tonight. We have more. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BROWN: There is a war out there. It was a very heavy day of bombing in Afghanistan; a very expensive day, too, when you add up all the smart bombs that were used today. The Pentagon says more than 100 targets hit. But out of that 100, at least one may stand out. Here's our military affairs correspondent, Jamie McIntyre.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN MILITARY AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A U.S. smart bomb hits a Taliban headquarters building in Kabul. Another destroys an armored vehicle at a barracks in Kandahar. And in a so-called "engagement zone" in southern Afghanistan, a dug-in tank is spotted and then taken out with a single bomb.
The war is going well, according to the Pentagon, which believes at least one top lieutenant to Osama Bin Laden has been killed in the relentless bombing.
DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: Do I know it of certain knowledge? No. I've not been on the ground. But it would be a good thing for the world.
MCINTYRE: Pentagon sources say more than 100 strikes on day 12 have again concentrated on Taliban forces on the front lines, with opposition militias. And for the first time, the United States said it would be willing to arm and feed the Taliban's foes.
RUMSFELD: They're going to have some help in food. They're going to have some help in ammunition.
MCINTYRE: With U.S. special forces and their helicopters poised for action off the deck of the U.S. aircraft carrier Kitty Hawk, the Pentagon could launch commando raids at any time. For this war, there is no prohibition against sending in ground troops.
GENERAL RICHARD MYERS, CHAIRMAN, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: I firmly believe that this is the most important task that the U.S. military has been handed since the Second World War. And what's at stake here is no less than our freedom to exist as an American people.
MCINTYRE: Meanwhile, Pentagon planners have been asked to look at what military action the U.S. might carry out in other countries such as Somalia, where Osama bin Laden is suspected of having a hand in the 1993 firefight in Mogadishu that killed 18 Army Rangers.
RUMSFELD: There is no question but that Al Qaeda is still involved in Somalia. And we don't discuss future operations.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: The Pentagon admits it doesn't have a clear picture of what's happening on the ground, but cites snippets of intelligence indicating some Taliban troops are defecting and some Al Qaeda forces have been hit while they're on the move.
Jamie McIntyre, CNN, the Pentagon. (END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Among the targets hit was an office used by CNN in Kandahar. CNN's Christiane Amanpour has been working on that story and the rest of the day's news from the region. She is Islamabad today. Christiane, good morning to you.
AMANPOUR: Good morning from here in Islamabad, Aaron. Indeed, some of the targeting yesterday was recorded to be quite close to an office CNN is using. And it was around the office, and apparently it collapsed a wall and blew out some buildings, but there have been no reports of casualties and the people who are our sources were not inside the building.
They believe that a vehicle -- carrying they don't know who -- was one of the targets when this attack came. There have also been other reports from sources in Kandahar, Kabul and elsewhere about those bombings yesterday. We are still waiting to see whether, like last Friday, Pentagon officials in the United States said that they had had a pause in the bombing to observe the Muslim sabbath -- whether that would be the same today. Yesterday we could not get an answer out of Secretary Rumsfeld on that.
In any event, Al Jazeera, the Arab satellite network, showed from Kabul yesterday -- today, your time -- pictures of what it said was some civilian damage. Buildings they said that they saw collapsed with bodies being pulled out of it. They were not taken to any of the military targets. And there were also other sources in Kabul reporting military targets that had been struck, including a Taliban tank unit and other military installations. The same also in Kandahar, reporting a Taliban commando unit. And as Jamie McIntyre, reported a London-based group affiliated with Al Qaeda and observing the situation confirmed for the first time that on Sunday a top Al Qaeda lieutenant was reported killed in Afghanistan.
In the meantime, here in Islamabad, yet another aid agency saying that its operations inside Afghanistan have now been all but crippled. They say that two of their installations in Kandahar and Mazar-e- Sharif in the north were looted by armed militias. All the medicine and food and other assistance was taken, and that means they can no longer operate with their local staff. They were operating. And that is going to affect some tens of thousands of people that were dependent on that one program. Aaron.
BROWN: Christiane, you spent about a half an hour talking to the Defense Secretary today. What stood out in that half hour to you?
AMANPOUR: Well, I think certainly the Defense Secretary -- as you know, he has already appeared on Al Jazeera. So has Condoleezza Rice. I think there is a certain feeling that the message is not getting out to the Islamic world, or it hasn't been put properly enough that this not a war against Islam, it's a war against terrorism.
We asked specifically about what we were hearing that there was beginning to be a little bit of a shift in support inside Afghanistan, because we had reports -- discernible reports of some support for the air strikes. People hoping -- those opposed to the Taliban -- that it would end that regime.
We asked him about a possibility of civilian casualties damaging that, and he insisted that targeting was just on military targets. So things like that were interesting. We asked him about perceptions toward America in this part of world. That's always a bit of a tricky question at this time, particularly when suggesting any kind of anti- Americanism is sometimes viewed in some quarters as a little unpatriotic at this moment. Nonetheless, all the officials know they have to deal with that perception.
BROWN: Christiane, thank you very much. That interview was seen not just domestically but on CNN International, so it was seen around the world, including the Arab world. Still ahead from us, what Americans do like to see these days: terrorists put behind bars. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Proof today that terrorists are not out of reach. Four of them were sentenced to life in prison by a federal judge here in New York. They participated in the plot to blow up two American embassies in Africa more than three years ago. Not every terrorist gets caught, of course, and maybe any surviving September 11th plotters may in fact get away scot-free, but there are four men on their way to a harsh life in virtual solitary tonight.
Here's CNN's Deborah Feyerick.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The four convicted terrorists showed no emotion as a federal judge sentenced each to life in prison without parole.
JOHN ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL OF THE UNITED STATES: Al Qaeda stands charged, tried, convicted and sentenced for terrorism.
FEYERICK: All were found guilty in May of plotting to kill Americans: a conspiracy allegedly masterminded by Osama Bin Laden that in 1998 targeted U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. 224 people were killed, including 12 Americans.
Two of the bombers in those attacks were spared the death penalty. CNN learning three of the 12 jurors held out, depriving the prosecution of the required unanimous verdict. But, says one of the survivors who addressed the judge...
JIM OWENS, EMBASSY BOMBING SURVIVOR: The death sentence in some cases would have given them what they wanted, which was martyrs. They would have used that as justification to kill still more Americans.
FEYERICK: Before his sentencing, Bin Laden soldier Mohamad Sadiq Odeh made a rambling statement about American justice. Through his lawyer, he said it was U.S. foreign policy -- including the presence of American troops on holy Muslim lands in Saudi Arabia -- that had provoked the embassy attacks, and that the victims themselves were responsible.
ANTHONY RICCO, LAWYER FOR MOHAMAD ODEH: He does assert that he's a member of Al Qaeda and remains committed to Al Qaeda.
FEYERICK: Speaking next, Bin Laden's former personal secretary, Wadih el-Hage, said he came to America to spread the message of Islam before going to Afghanistan to support the Mujahideen's fight against "the invaders," the Soviets. Lawyers for el-Hage, a naturalized U.S. citizen, had asked for a shorter sentence, el-Hage saying, "There's nothing wrong or shameful that I did to apologize for." But the judge made clear he felt el-Hage was just as guilty as the bomb-makers, since he had enabled Al Qaeda operatives to carry out their missions.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FEYERICK: In a somewhat unusual move, the prosecutor addressed the courtroom, directing his comments to the defendant Wadih el-Hage. He called el-Hage a traitor, saying he chose to work with Al Qaeda, a terrorist group, choosing to lie to his government instead of cooperating with it.
The men were ordered to pay $33 million in restitution, money the judge suggested should come from Bin Laden assets frozen soon after the attacks on the Pentagon and the World Trade Center -- which used to stand just a few blocks from the courthouse. Deborah Feyerick, CNN, New York.
BROWN: Coming up next, what the anthrax itself is telling us about person or the people who are sending it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: We want to talk a bit more about anthrax in a day when we saw more cases offering more clues that might ultimately help find the source. A law enforcement official telling CNN he believes there is a source, a single source, for anthrax found in Washington, Florida and at NBC in New York. One reason: anthrax seems to be finely ground. How that might help investigators and other questions too tonight for CNN's bioterrorism expert, Javed Ali, a contributing author and editor of "Jane's Chemical Biodefense Guidebook." That book's probably moving pretty well these days. Good evening. Nice to have you with us.
JAVED ALI, CNN BIOTERRORISM ANALYST: Thank you, Aaron.
BROWN: It seems to me that terrorists used to strap dynamite to theirs waists and walk into a shopping center and blow it up and them up. This is different by degree of sophistication.
ALI: I would -- at least for this series of incidents that we are experiencing here in the United States -- it certainly is different. The one sort of striking dynamic at play is that the anthrax -- just the mere fact of the way this anthrax is being delivered, in a powdered form that appears to have a certain level of sophistication behind it in terms of certain particle size, other kinds of properties like that -- that has never been seen before in the annals of terrorism. That in and of itself is significant.
BROWN: Does that rule in or rule out anyone, any group, any state, any anything?
ALI: I think it's still too early to tell definitively who the perpetrator or perpetrators are. But with that first sort of dynamic out there, and the fact that these incidents are sophisticated -- at least to a certain level or a level that has never been seen before -- there are some other unusual patterns as well. The fact that the method of delivery for fairly sophisticated material is very low tech. It's apparently sending the bacteria through the mail. That's a very low-tech way of delivering a disease. It appears to be designed more towards generating mass panic or miss disruption or mass anxiety as opposed to generating mass casualties.
BROWN: I want to throw a couple questions of the kinds of things I just think about on the ride home some nights. Do you think it's possible that the people who are sending the anthrax are also people who are sending the hoaxes?
ALI: Again, I don't think there's any clear pattern to say definitively one way or the other. The interesting thing about hoaxes is that this isn't the first time the United States and other parts of the world have experienced anthrax hoaxes or other biological agent hoaxes. In the late fall, early winter of '97 and early '98, there was sort of the first series of anthrax hoaxes nationwide. Over -- from that time up until the middle part of this year, there have been dozens of these hoaxes each year, if not hundreds each year. This isn't the first time this has happened.
BROWN: In a sense what I'm asking is what your instinct is telling you, shouting or whispering quietly. Do you this might be a feint of some sort, that they're trying literally to distract people or to see how the country reacts to something which is really setting the stage for something else?
ALI: I mean, that's definitely within the realm of possibilities. But until we know definitively who are the perpetrators behind these incidents, I don't think we can answer that question with any great clarity at this point.
BROWN: I just think it's the kind of thing, honestly, that I wonder about. I get feeling -- I'm not sure if people get the feeling -- that another shoe may be out there. Do you think they will ever catch the people who are doing this?
ALI: I think hopefully, within the coming days if not weeks. With the clues that have been generated to date and hopefully more clues that will be forthcoming in that same time frame and all the different channels -- investigative channels that are operating right now -- we have law-enforcement channels, public health, intelligence channels, and I think over that time frame -- again, hopefully -- we will have a better clue as to the source of these incidents.
BROWN: We've got a ways to go. Javed, thanks for coming in tonight.
ALI: Thank you.
BROWN: Javed Ali, who helps us on bioterrorism matters. We have more tonight. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: The events of the past five weeks have traumatized, in many ways, the entire country. But for two cities, the terror has been entirely personal, destroying or damaging hometown landmarks, spreading an exotic disease and fear.
As they say, everybody responds to terror in different ways. True for New York and Washington, D.C. as well. Here is CNN National Correspondent Bruce Morton.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRUCE MORTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The maples have turned here. Streets blaze with the colors of fall. You notice that, just as you notice all the police on the streets near the Capitol these days.
SEN. BILL FRIST (R), TENNESSEE: Things are under control. The system is working. People are working together in a harmonious, almost symphonic, way.
MORTON: Well, some people. The House adjourned Wednesday. The Senate was in session. And various other government agencies had surprises for Washington. Congress closed some streets around the Capitol to trucks. People are still arguing about how open Reagan National Airport should be.
New York, which suffered a deeper wound, has been helped by its mayor, a tireless cheerleader, first at the World Trade Center, now about anthrax.
MAYOR RUDOLPH GIULIANI (R), NEW YORK: People should just not overreact to this. They should just -- I know, it's hard to say this, but you've got to keep saying it -- that is, to relax and deal with it. Work with it. Remember, worst case scenario: this is a disease if you get it -- and very few people have gotten it -- that is treatable.
MORTON: Washington has a mayor, too. But he's overshadowed by Congress, which has looked nervous this week, and by the president, who must lead the country and sometimes the world -- and who this week is in China.
One other difference: New York has a baseball team, the Yankees, which shares its pride with the city, and its people, and its mayor.
GIULIANI: Yankee Stadium is a special place. We just feel the heartbeat of the people.
MORTON: When they won the first round of the playoffs, the mayor, of course, was there.
GIULIANI: It makes the people of New York City feel very proud. They identify so much with the Yankees.
MORTON: Washington loves, identifies with its football team, the Redskins. They are winless so far, 0 and 5. Maybe Washington needs some words from an earlier president, sworn in during the misery of the Great Depression.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FRANKLIN D. ROOSEVELT, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORTON: Wise words then, and maybe now.
Bruce Morton, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: That will do it for this hour. We will update top stories in just a moment.
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