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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown
America's New War: The Terror Alert
Aired October 30, 2001 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, again, everybody. Out in the Bronx tonight the president threw out the first pitch of game three of the World Series. Nice symbolism, in a couple of ways.
And in our part of town, Michael Jordan opened the NBA season against the New York Knicks. Two huge sports stories. At the risk of blowing my cover, I like a good ball game, and I love to read the sports page each morning, and I don't think I've done either in seven weeks.
Now, I understand this tragedy has been somewhat more consuming to me than most people. I live in New York and I deal with this 19 hours a day, but on this, I do not think I'm alone. The games don't seem to matter as much as they used to. And even when they do matter, they seem to matter for different reasons -- reasons beyond who won or lost.
So little seems mindless or routine anymore -- not a ball game, not the sports page, not trick-or-treating, and especially not kissing a child good night. It's been seven weeks today.
To the news, we go. Secretary Rumsfeld said today there are some U.S. ground forces on the ground in Afghanistan. Two weeks ago he threw a fit because something just like that was reported. So why the change?
And as we said, the president made a pitch of his own tonight. Life goes on. So does the World Series. But it's not as it was. The vice president was out somewhere, we don't know where. He's out of sight again after last night's terror alert.
And the government now knows you don't have to work in a news room or a mail room to get anthrax. Are people getting it from just picking up their mail? Health officials are now taking that question very seriously. And we shall, too, tonight.
Other questions on the table: how is the war really going? We'll talk about the health of people working ground zero, and we'll debunk a few rumors along the way.
Before we do any of that, we'll get the headlines. And we begin with our senior White House correspondent John King, on the president's visit to the ballpark -- John. JOHN KING, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, that visit comes at the end of another very tough, challenging day for the president. He learned more today about just how much trouble the economy is in. Consumer confidence at a 7-1/2 year low.
A difficult breakfast meeting in the morning with the bipartisan leadership of Congress, at a time when increasingly partisan fight over just how to improve airline security and what to do about that struggling economy. New questions today about that new terrorism alert, and as you noted, the military strategy overseas.
Still, the president at a ball game tonight -- part of his effort to show the American people even in the toughest of times, you have to have a little fun.
BROWN: John, back to you in a bit.
On the anthrax front -- and how strange does that sound -- new developments today. Eileen O'Connor has been working the story -- Eileen.
EILEEN O'CONNOR, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, inhalation anthrax where investigators thought it would be not be found, undermining theories, sending scientists back to the drawing board. And it's raising new concerns about the possible breadth of contamination and the possible existence of more letters.
BROWN: Eileen, thank you. Back with you shortly, too.
Northern Afghanistan now, the latest on the ground there. CNN's Satinder Bindra reporting this evening.
SATINDER BINDRA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, for the first time since this bombing campaign began, U.S. planes have opened up a new front. They have been bombing Taliban positions along the Afghanistan-Tajikistan border. But so far, no change on the ground.
The military position remains the same. Northern Alliance troops have not been able to advance towards Taliban positions. Now, however, Northern Alliance commanders are saying they'll soon make a major push towards the northern and strategic city of Mazar-e-Sharif -- Aaron.
BROWN: We'll be back with all of you shortly.
We begin tonight though, with a mixed message. While Vice President Cheney hunkers down at some secret location, the president was out at Yankee Stadium, enjoying, we hope, game three of the World Series. This again points out the great dilemma, both for the government and the rest of the country, too: Go about your normal business, but remember there's a suspicion of another terrorist attack within the next days or week.
Back to the White House and senior correspondent John King -- John. KING: Aaron, the president opened the baseball season in Milwaukee. He threw a pitch low and in the dirt. Tonight, a strike, at least by a politician's scorekeeping. He threw the ball straight across home plate at Yankee Stadium.
Moments after passing through the dugout and on his way through, he passed on the ramp a sign quoting General Douglas MacArthur. That quote: "There is no substitute for victory."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(voice-over): For a president, this is part of the routine, part of the effort to convince the country life goes on.
But tradition comes with extra security this year, a city and a country stung by terrorism just weeks ago, on notice it could be about to happen again.
Airspace over Yankee Stadium was put off limits because of the new terrorism alert. The government also ordered new flight restrictions near nuclear power plants and other nuclear facilities, and promised additional measures at airports and other major transportation centers.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There will be higher levels of surveillance and more stringent searches.
KING: The stepped-up security came after a new alert based on U.S. intelligence reports, indicating a high risk of more terrorist attacks in the next week or so.
TOM RIDGE, HOMELAND SECURITY DIRECTOR: You can fairly assume that the experts view this information somehow related to Al Qaeda or bin Laden, or else we wouldn't have ramped it up.
KING: But the administration said the intelligence did not indicate specific targets or the types of strikes being planned. And some in Congress complained that such a warning only serves to scare people.
SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN (D), CALIFORNIA: Well, it's vague, it's nonspecific. It says everybody beware, but you don't know what to beware of, or you don't know how to protect yourself. And that's the problem.
KING: The president told high school students they need to be alert, but calm.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Our commitment to freedom has always made us a target of tyranny and intolerance. We must never flinch in the face of adversity, and we won't.
KING: Heading to the ball game was the president's way of proving he can go about his routine, despite the new alert.
(END VIDEOTAPE) KING: But that new alert does mean new security precautions around the president and hear at the White House as well, including that decision today to keep the president and the vice president apart, and to move Mr. Cheney once again to a secure, undisclosed location -- Aaron.
BROWN: John, thanks. Senior White House correspondent John King this evening.
Now on to anthrax. The cases are spreading. They're spreading beyond the media, beyond the government, and beyond the post offices. And no, we still don't know how much farther this is going to go, or even how it's getting in some of these places.
Once again, CNN's Eileen O'Connor joins us from Washington. Eileen, good evening.
O'CONNOR: All of that very perplexing, Aaron. The secretary of Health and Human Services says investigators simply do not know who is sending anthrax through the mail, and no one knows if there will be more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(voice-over): Investigators are perplexed. How did a woman who worked primarily in a storeroom of this eye, ear, nose and throat hospital in New York, where she had no special contact with the mail, come down with inhalation anthrax?
MAYOR RUDY GIULIANI (R), NEW YORK: There's no question there's the possibility she got it somewhere else.
O'CONNOR: She's in critical condition at another hospital. The hospital where she worked has tested clean so far, but anyone who's been there lately will be tested and treated, and some questioned.
KENNETH RASKE, NEW YORK HOSPITAL ASSOCIATION: An exposure of over an hour since October 11th, and they will be treated.
O'CONNOR: Another mystery, a case of skin anthrax in an office building in the same town in New Jersey where anthrax-laced letters were postmarked. As a precaution, investigators checked several offices in that building, including a field office of a Congressman.
The infected woman is doing fine, but again, she's not a postal worker. How did she get it? Her coworkers say they doubt she got it at the office.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The fact that I have been in that office for three weeks, or whatever length of time it's been since she was infected, and I haven't contracted anything -- you know, I'm not overly concerned.
O'CONNOR: After weeks of saying the mail is safe, health officials are now not ruling out the possibility she contracted the disease at home. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is being intensively investigated right now.
O'CONNOR: In addition to these new cases of anthrax in seemingly unrelated people, more post offices down the distribution chain from contaminated mail handling facilities are also showing traces.
(on camera): Investigators say it's possible the contamination came from the anthrax-laced substance in the letter sent to Senate majority leader Tom Daschle. But whether there was enough actual anthrax spores to cause so many infections is unknown.
SEN. TOM DASCHLE (D-SD), MAJORITY LEADER: We haven't been told any figure. I don't think it's possible to do a spore count. We were told a couple of grams.
O'CONNOR (voice-over): Investigative sources say the Daschle letter appeared stained, raising the possibility of leakage -- more likely with that letter, they say, than with the others sent.
JOHN POTTER, POSTMASTER GENERAL: That paper was more porous than the previous paper, and allowed the anthrax to move through the paper.
O'CONNOR: But given two inhalation cases in places which never handled the Daschle letter, some investigators believe there must be other letters among mail already impounded.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're making plans to go through that piece by piece.
O'CONNOR: But not, they say, before it's thoroughly sanitized.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'CONNOR: The postal inspector says the one thing the scare has done is identify a soft spot to solve it: sanitize all the mail now and in the future. But how, exactly, without damaging some things that are sent through the postal service? That's still an open question -- Aaron.
BROWN: And how long would it actually take to get the equipment in place to sanitize all that mail?
O'CONNOR: Again, another open question. It's going to be a long time. They do not have that equipment readily available. It would actually have to be produced. We're talking about thousands of machines, to prevent mail from having to be shipped to other facilities. But they do say they are going to be ordering eight machines to put at regional post offices in the very near the future -- Aaron.
BROWN: Eileen, thanks. Eileen O'Connor in Washington on anthrax. The fact is, there aren't many answers there tonight. There are just new sets of facts cropping up.
Coming up, tough questions for the Pentagon, too. There's actually real progress in America's new war. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: There's a notion out there tonight that bears a closer look from us. It might be right, it could be wrong, but it is out there, it's growing, and it goes something like this: The war in Afghanistan can't be won the way it's being fought. Too many self- imposed limits, too much reliance on pinprick airstrikes and too little of what one columnist called today "scaring the living hell out of the enemy."
Fair criticism three weeks into a war? Not for us to say. But a fair question? It's being asked on editorial pages and around dinner tables, and at the Pentagon. Here's Jamie McIntyre.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN MILITARY AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Pentagon says it's now concentrating 80 percent of its firepower against front line Taliban forces, but says the shift is not a sign of frustration at a lack of progress, but rather part of a methodically planned military campaign that is just three weeks young.
GEN. TOMMY FRANKS, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: In my view, it is not at all a stalemate. I believe that we're on the timeline that we established, which essentially is the timeline that we exercise at our initiative.
MCINTYRE: The Pentagon has now acknowledged publicly that pinpoint strikes against Taliban targets in the north have been more effective in recent days because a handful of U.S. special forces, working with the opposition, are calling in strikes and using lasers to mark targets.
But with fewer than 100 planes a day attacking the Taliban, critics say the U.S. could easily intensify the pressure, by carpet bombing troop concentrations or putting in more special forces to better direct attacks.
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Were anyone to make that suggestion, it would reflect a lack of understanding or knowledge as to the effort we've been putting into it. It is not easily done.
MCINTYRE: Rumsfeld acknowledges the war in Afghanistan is constrained, but insists the constraints are practical, not political.
RUMSFELD: In any conflict there are constraints. And there are constraints because weapons have only so much precision, there are constraints because there are some things you simply don't want to do, and you make a conscious decision not to do them.
MCINTYRE: And to critics who argue the Pentagon needs to send ground troops in to root out the Al Qaeda network and its Taliban backers, both the United States and its closest ally, Great Britain, say that may yet happen.
RUMSFELD: The United States of America has certainly not ruled out the use of ground troops.
GEOFFREY HOON, BRITISH DEFENSE MINISTER: Nor have we.
MCINTYRE: The Pentagon says in three weeks it has established air superiority over Afghanistan, eliminated much of the Taliban's military equipment, cut off its resupply lines, and made it possible for U.S. forces to maneuver on the ground.
REAR ADM. JOHN STUFFLEBEEM, JOINT STAFF DEPUTY OPERATIONS DIRECTOR: We know we're doing the right thing. We're doing it in the best way that we know how. We're adapting as we go along. We're confident that we're making progress. And we are going to win.
MCINTYRE (on camera): Both the United States and Britain say it would not make military sense to ease up on the aerial assault for the Muslim holy month of Ramadan, which begins in mid-November. That, they say, would simply give the Taliban a chance to regroup.
And Pakistan's president has eased up on his call for a bombing pause, saying simply he hopes the U.S. can achieve its military objectives by then.
Jamie McIntyre, CNN, the Pentagon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Well, you'd need both hands to count the number of times the president and the Pentagon used some form of the word "patience" today. And it's not just directed at the American public and the media. It's also directed at anti-Taliban forces with the Northern Alliance.
They've been vocally frustrated with the pace of the U.S. campaign against the front line Taliban forces. They are anxious to move on key cities, including Kabul and Mazar-e-Sharif, and they are unable to do so.
So where do they stand tonight? That's what Satinder Bindra's been working on. He joins us from northern Afghanistan, where it's early morning.
So, good morning to you.
BINDRA: Good morning, Aaron.
What we have seen here for the last two days is a mortar attack and artillery strikes by Northern Alliance forces. This, after, for the first time since this bombing campaign began, U.S. planes have been targeting Taliban positions along the Tajik-Afghanistan border.
But despite these attacks from the air, and despite these mortar and artillery attacks that I've been talking about, Northern Alliance troops are still stuck. They still have not been able to make much headway against Taliban positions.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) (voice-over): For more than two weeks, Northern Alliance forces have been pressing hard to capture the strategic northern town of Mazar-e-Sharif. So far, all their attacks have been repulsed. Local Taliban officials even claimed five Northern Alliance commanders had been captured and hanged. Those claims were denied within hours by a senior Taliban minister.
While not confirming or denying those reports, the Northern Alliance says earlier this week it's forces killed 35 Taliban fighters and captured another 140. It's impossible to independently verify claims from either side.
What is clear though, is the fighting in the north seems to be veering towards a stalemate. On many northern battle fronts, it's evident alliance forces are poorly equipped, and commanders admit they may not be able to make much headway against entrenched Taliban forces until Russia delivers 40 tanks pulled out of storage, and 100 armored vehicles.
BURHANUDDIN RABBINI, PRESIDENT OF AFGHANISTAN (through translator): Afghanistan had a history of a long war with the Soviet Union. But today, we are clearly no longer dealing with the Soviet Union. Now we are dealing with the Russian Federation. And their politics clearly differs from that of the Soviet Union.
BINDRA: Reports from Moscow indicate Russia could deliver up to $45 million worth of hardware, perhaps by the end of the year. Northern Alliance commanders say the tanks will boost moral and increase their military capability.
But with winter setting in and many mountain passes expected to close soon, the tanks, if they're delivered, may not be able to make it to the Kabul front until next spring. Regardless of the arrival of Russian armor, the Alliance says the fighting will go on, perhaps even during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan.
RABBINI (through translator): As I mentioned, traditionally the Taliban has not refrained from unleashing terror on people for any religious circumstance or holiday. So of course, if there are going to be any attacks, we will do everything to defend our people.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BINDRA: Now, over the next few weeks, Aaron, Northern Alliance forces expect the United States to keep up a sustained bombing campaign. They also expect more cooperation and collaboration between Northern Alliance commanders on the ground and the U.S. military. They're also asking for more pinpointed and more accurate strikes against Taliban positions.
Aaron, there is some anger here that U.S. strikes have, over the past few days, caused civilian casualties. Back to you.
BROWN: Thank you, Satinder. Very nice job out there today. Thank you very much. You know, we say a lot that one picture can tell a great story. And while the United States is bombing with these high tech bombs, our country's allies on the ground are riding horses.
South now to bomb-ravaged Kandahar, Taliban-controlled territory still. The latest on the ground, Nic Robertson on the videophone in Kandahar this morning -- Nic.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, there was a large explosion here about three and a half hours ago. It rattled the windows on this building. It was still nighttime. It was difficult to see where that bomb had gone off. A few hours earlier we heard jet fighters flying in the air and heard explosions and seen flashes towards a northern horizon from here.
Also overnight, we could hear what sounded like C-130 transport aircraft, flying quite low in this area. Quite a different sound than the fighter aircraft.
Now, this morning a principle spokesman for the Taliban leader, Mullah Mohammad Omar, also his secretary, came here to this compound where 26 foreign journalists have been brought into Kandahar, and he told us that two civilian houses have been hit in the city overnight. He said there were some civilian causalities, including, he said, a medical team in one of those houses.
He also said that two cars were damaged in this city as well. Now, we're still just on the outskirts of Kandahar. Bit what we saw last night and what we see from the city this morning, looking at the traffic on the roads, it appears as if it's a place where there's business as usual. There are transport trucks going up and down the roads, including fuel trucks.
And we are told by these Taliban leaders we will be able to go into the city, Kandahar, behind me, in a little while, and we were told we would be able to see these houses and make visits to places that we request -- Aaron.
BROWN: Nic, just for the record, let's establish what the restrictions, if any, are so far, as quickly as you can.
ROBERTSON: Just -- Aaron, we're held just outside the city in a compound. It's guarded. We have Taliban spokesmen with us, and we understand they will be escorting us today. That's the principle of their operation here. It sounds very much like the trip we made two weeks ago with the Taliban, where they tell us where they'll take us. We can suggest sites. They say they'll take us there -- Aaron.
BROWN: Nic, thanks. Nic Robertson, just outside of Kandahar. He'll get a good look at the city today, we hope. And later on tomorrow here, we'll know more. Thank you, Nic.
Coming up, preparing for terror, some kind of terror. One local police official said today, "you have to assume anything can happen." How do you prepare for anything? We'll look at the struggle across the country in local communities in a moment. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: When the security warning went out yesterday, it went to 18,000 communities across the country -- a few of them large, but most small, and nearly all of them in uncharted waters tonight, improvising their way through America's new war.
CNN's Thelma Gutierrez visited three of those cities.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
THELMA GUTIERREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Burbank, California, Delray Beach, Florida, Bloomington, Minnesota.
Small communities across America, not always visible on the radar screen when it comes to talk of terror attacks in high-profile places. At least, not until this announcement was made.
JOHN ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL: There may be additional terrorist attacks within the U.S. and against United States interests over the next week. The administration views this information as credible.
GUTIERREZ (on camera): Credible, perhaps, but the administration says it doesn't have any information as to the types of attacks or even any specific targets. And that puts everyone in a vulnerable position, even folks who live in small towns.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In a way, I kind of wish we didn't hear about it, because we all know something's going to happen. We just don't know what, and so I think that's the scariest part.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think this warning here came out in a good way, because it's showing that they're not trying to hide things from the public.
GUTIERREZ (voice-over): In Burbank, home of some of the biggest movie studios, the police department has been on heightened alert since 9-11. City leaders say the new warning may be unnerving, but so far, they have no new plans of action.
LT. KEVIN KRAFFT, BURBANK POLICE: If we were to receive some type of a specific threat about anything, then we would react appropriately to that at that time. But at this point, because this is a very general type of alert, we are just maintaining a very high vigilance within the city.
GUTIERREZ: In the quiet coastal town of Delray Beach, Florida...
JEFF MESSER, DELRAY BEACH POLICE: We are not aware of a specific type of threat, so we are no more heightened than we were yesterday or the day before.
GUTIERREZ: The focus of concern, even in small towns, is where big crowds gather. In Bloomington, Minnesota, at the largest mall in the country, Mall of America, the annual Halloween trick-or-treat event will go on as scheduled.
Thousands of children will collect candy from vendors. More than 130 officers will patrol the area, and security will eye the crowd from 130 closed-circuit TV surveillance cameras.
At Universal Studios outside of Los Angeles, security is tight as ever. Cars are subject to search. Anyone entering the park must first go through metal detectors. Cement barriers and iron gates now surround the property.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's scary. And you try to go on with your life. I have grandchildren. I'm worried about them.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you have to worry about, you know, every time someone says something bad might happen -- I worry more about crossing the street and getting hit by a car than I do planes falling out of the sky.
GUTIERREZ: The gates and barriers and security checks in public places are the result of September 11th. Now, with each new warning, Americans wonder if it'll be enough.
Thelma Gutierrez, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: When we talk about the anthrax story, we keep hearing about New York, New Jersey and Washington. If you're in one of those areas it's easy to get tunnel vision about how the rest of the country is dealing with this. So perhaps this is as much a reality check as much for us as it is for you.
We brought together tonight an editor and a reporter from local newspapers around the country, to get a sense of what they're writing about and what their readers are saying. James Oshea is the managing editor of at terrific newspaper, the "Chicago Tribune." And Lauren Markoe is a reporter for the "Charlotte Observer," good newspaper, too.
Good evening to both of you. Lauren, do you know what the front page is tomorrow?
LAUREN MARKOE, REPORTER, "CHARLOTTE OBSERVER": I can tell you what our front page looks like. Four out of our five stories are about terror, either directly or indirectly. I can run down them quickly.
BROWN: Actually, what I'd be more interested in knowing is how common that has been. If you took five major stories in the front page every day for the last seven weeks, would four out of five have been the terror?
MARKOE: That's the norm. That's par for the course. It was five out of five for the first few weeks after September 11th, but in the past two weeks or so, we've allowed one terror-free story. Tomorrow that's Michael Jordan, but usually only one a day on the front page.
BROWN: And, Mr. Oshea, did Michael Jordan make the front page of the "Chicago Tribune" tomorrow morning?
JAMES OSHEA, MANAGING EDITOR, "CHICAGO TRIBUNE": There's a refer and a picture, but not a story.
BROWN: OK. What will be on the front page?
OSHEA: Well, generally we have the -- it's pretty much "A War on Terror" front page, with an attack story detailing the military developments. An anthrax story, we have a story about the security threat issued by Mr. Ashcroft, a story about the president attending the ball game in New York, the World Series. And we have a story on -- an economic story that is somewhat related to the terrorist attacks. And then a local story about how they are trying to teach kids about these complex issues in our schools.
BROWN: Are your readers saying to you, enough, too much, about right? What are you hearing?
OSHEA: Basically, we're hearing that people are very interested in this and they're very concerned about these issues, and they want us to cover the story. If our numbers are any indication, our circulation is up. And people want to read about this campaign, about this war, about the fears and all of the other implications of this new way of life for us.
BROWN: And, Ms. Markoe, run down your front page for me. We just got a taste of the numbers. Give me an idea of the substance, here.
MARKOE: The lead story is anthrax, the woman in New York who is so severely ill. We also have a story, the latest from Afghanistan. A story about aviation and how planes can't fly within 11 miles of nuclear plants. We've got a significant local angle with that story, because we, in Charlotte, are within 15 miles of two nuclear plants, one in North Carolina and one in South Carolina.
Then we've got a story, and from the headline it might not seem to be terror-related, but it is. It's about more stringent requirements for getting a driver's license in North Carolina. It used to be very easy. It's going to be harder now. Some of your viewers may remember that four of the hijackers who flew the plane into the Pentagon had Virginia licenses, and they were not residents of Virginia.
And then again, our fifth story is about Michael Jordan playing at the Garden for the first time since he came out of retirement.
BROWN: How are you covering Afghanistan? Has the paper sent a reporter to Afghanistan or are you using wires and other ways?
MARKOE: We are doing both. We are using wire stories. Last week we had a reporter in Afghanistan. She usually covers eastern North Carolina. That's home to Camp LeJeune. We've got a lot of military bases here. And she went along with units that's doing the food drops, so we got a first-person account of what it's like to drop food across Afghanistan.
We're also using our Washington bureau. We're part of the larger Knight-Ridder chain so we've got an international staff ourselves. But we're pulling a bit from here and a bit from there and then we're using our own staff in Charlotte as well.
BROWN: We've got about a minute, a minute 15 left. Are -- Lauren, are your readers saying too much anthrax?
MARKOE: Mostly no. Mostly they want to know as much as they can. And it's a tough balance for the newspaper. We're trying not to add to the panic so many people already feel. We've only received a -- maybe a dozen letters or so from people who are saying enough is enough, and the president is trying to tell us get back to normal and the 'Charlotte Observer' isn't helping because it's printing so much news about anthrax." But most readers want to know as much as we can give them.
BROWN: And Mr. Oshea, I'm wondering, are there things that you are not covering because of this? Are things going somewhat unnoticed in Chicago because of this?
OSHEA: No. I wouldn't say so. I think, you know, we have big local stories here that we have still covered and put on the front page, in fact, during this. When the head of United Airlines was replaced, big local company. That was on page one. The O'Hare International Airport expansion plans were the big story, page one. So I don't really think we -- our readers are going without news that they would normally get.
BROWN: And I think you suggested circulation is up a bit, is that right?
OSHEA: Yes.
BROWN: And Lauren, same with you? Circulation up or the same?
MARKOE: It's up by a few thousand copies. We're about 300,000 on weekends and we hadn't seen these numbers for some years.
BROWN: And just quickly because I don't know -- I know Chicago a little bit better. Most of your business subscription business, or are you selling papers on the streets?
OSHEA: We are selling papers on the streets as well as subscriptions. Both.
BROWN: I'm sorry. And Lauren, how about you?
MARKOE: We're mostly a subscription business but we're selling more papers on the streets nowadays.
BROWN: Thank you both. I hope we'll do this again. Thanks a lot.
OSHEA: Thank you.
MARKOE: Thank you.
BROWN: A nice reality check all around. Thank you guys. Coming up, workers at ground zero in New York are worrying about what is in the air they're breathing. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Well, you undoubtedly saw the pictures of people fleeing Lower Manhattan seven weeks ago today, covering their mouths as smoke and dust and debris covered them. Then came that unmistakable smell soon after, from the fires that are still burning tonight.
Quite a few of the firefighters down in the ground zero in the early days say that today they are suffering from illnesses that they can only imagine were caused from breathing the air around ground zero. The fire department says they got protection for firefighters as fast as they could and that some firefighters chose not to wear the protection they were given. We asked a department representative to join us on camera. The department declined.
The science of what might be happening in a moment. But first, hear from some of the firefighters who spoke to CNN's Jason Bellini.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JASON BELLINI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Fires still burn beneath ground zero, and smoke still drifts the 20 or so blocks to Engine 15 fire station.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You smell that right now? That's the Trade Center. That's the smell you're never going to forget.
BELLINI: This firefighter, who asked us not to give out his first or last name, is worried about a cough he has. It won't go away. He's sure the air at ground zero caused it. How bad is the cough?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You doing all right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's bad enough that I can't take a deep breath without coughing. It's pretty constant, especially when I go to lay down or something at night. I start coughing.
BELLINI: Other firefighters are complaining of symptoms similar to -- and in some cases more serious -- than his. Enough, in fact, that every firefighter in the city will have their blood and urine tested for toxins.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're asking from -- for two guys every night from each company until they -- they get through the whole department.
BOB LEDWITH, NEW YORK FIRE DEPARTMENT: Everybody's being tested, because that's what we wanted.
BELLINI: Leaders of the firefighter's union say that on September 11th, when the dust and smoke was at its worst and the rescue effort at its most urgent, firefighters weren't given the equipment they needed.
LEDWITH: You see, at the very beginning, they were giving you dust masks which weren't sufficient. You needed respirators, and the respirators didn't come about for a week, a week and a half.
BELLINI: The white masks, the union says, couldn't block out the dark smoke and dust in the air.
Later firefighters were issued respirator masks like this one. But that doesn't stop many of them from being concerned about what the environment at ground zero may have done -- and may still be doing -- to their health.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you go down to the Trade Center, there are guys in hazmat suits. Why are they all masked up and we're not, you know? I mean, they -- they must know something that we don't.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They keep telling us it's OK, but I don't know if they're telling us the whole truth, you know?
BELLINI: So you're pretty nervous about it.
SHERWIN CHOW: Yeah, I'm a little nervous. I'm pretty sure everyone else on my job is pretty nervous too.
BELLINI: Sherwin Chow is seeking the truth about his condition. He's on medical leave right now.
CHOW: I've seen three pulmonary specialists so far. I've been taking all these medications and down here I'm taking all these inhalators and everything like that.
BELLINI: Aware there may be a problem, firefighters are trying to be careful. It's not always easy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you're on the pile trying to communicate, nobody can hear you if you have your mask on, so you're constantly putting it around your neck.
BELLINI: The fires won't go out for a long time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm hoping that 10 years from now I'm not going to develop something.
BELLINI: Firefighters are worrying about themselves for a change. Jason Bellini, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Again, we can't say for certain what is causing these illnesses among firefighters. But we can get an idea of what kind of air at ground zero -- what that might do to a person from someone who has spent a career studying toxins and breathing: Dr. Joe Mauderly, the toxicologist at the Lovelace Respiratory Research Institute in Albuquerque, New Mexico. He joins us from there today. Tonight. Good evening.
JOE MAUDERLY, TOXICOLOGIST: Good evening. Aaron.
BROWN: I know you are not an MD, here, but you have been working on this kind of material for a long time. Is it conceivable to you that there is no relationship between the illness that these people -- the coughing, the respiratory problems -- and what was in the air at ground zero.
MAUDERLY: Well, Aaron, let me preface my comments by saying that I haven't been to the site and I haven't seen any data on air quality from the site, so any comments that I would make are just general observations from what I would imagine would be in the air.
BROWN: Observe.
MAUDERLY: And you put to me a negative question that is, is it conceivable that the material the men are breathing would not be the problem. And of course that would be difficult to prove.
But I can tell you that from what one would imagine would be in the air, it's quite plausible that they could be having respiratory problems if they are not adequately protected.
BROWN: You know, you look at what -- you look at ground zero today, you look at it back the way it was seven weeks ago -- and I remember being just 14 or 15 blocks from there, wondering, "What is it I'm breathing?" To your knowledge, do they know what is in that air?
MAUDERLY: I haven't seen any data, Aaron, so I can't really speak to that. I would imagine that the city has made some measurements. I have colleagues at New York University and Columbia University that are air quality experts, and I think there have been some measurements. But I don't know how well the exposures have been characterized.
BROWN: And what would be the kinds of things in the air that would concern you?
MAUDERLY: What we have in the World Trade Center situation might best be envisioned as a combination between working in a mine, with mineral dust, and working at fire, where many things are burning or pyrolyzing and vapors are coming from them.
From the rubblizing of the structure, of course, you had a lot of cement dust. We saw that on TV. Dust from the structure. Most of that would be mineral in nature. And then the fires would cause a range of combustion products, including soot, breakdown products of plastics, wood, material. And then what biological materials might be coming from the plants or human remains in the structure, is another concern.
BROWN: I just...
MAUDERLY: So what we...
BROWN: I'm sorry. Just -- what we're showing our viewers here is some pictures we took shortly after the blast. And they are seeing the dust and the debris. And it just coated not only ground zero but everything around it. All those apartments, the restaurants and the rest. Is it unfair, in a sense, to say to the fire department, "You should have protected your people better" given that nobody anticipated anything of this magnitude?
MAUDERLY: I would not make any comment on the fairness of how the situation was handled. Obviously, it was a grave emergency. People were doing the best they could under the circumstances. But I can tell you that from the pictures that I have seen and from what I understand, it would certainly be reasonable to assume that the high exposures that occurred soon after the collapse would irritate the lung, cause coughing, and give people a respiratory problem, even normal people that had not had problems before.
BROWN: Mr. Mauderly, thanks for your time and your insight tonight. We appreciate it. From Albuquerque, New Mexico. Thank you.
MAUDERLY: You're welcome.
BROWN: Rumors of all sorts out there. We will take a look at some of them, knock some down. Joel Stein from "Time" magazine joins us in a moment.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have honestly never seen anyone that was father like he was a father. From the second she was born, they had a closeness that I honestly have never seen.
I was in labor for probably 36 hours. And after I finally had her, he came running down to the recovery room and said to me, you know, "I can't believe it!" And I said, "Believe what? That I finally had her?" And he said, "No. That I have only known her two minutes and I love her so much, like, I can't -- you know, I just can't explain it."
She was his whole world. When she was first born, he was the one that got up at night, every night, even though he had to, you know, get up and get out at six.
He would race home from work, and you know, when she was little. And he would say, "Where is she?" And I would say, "She is sleeping. Don't wake her up." And I would go upstairs and he would be lying down with her on his stomach until she work. He just -- he loved being a dad. I won't find another him. That I know.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BROWN: Well, we're not in the business of reporting rumors. But the problem here is we are also not in the business of ignoring what people are talking about or worrying about. There are a ton of rumors out there, and thanks to the Internet they are ending up in e-mails around the world. Sounded to us like a job for Joel Stein, who writes a regular humor column for "Time" magazine. Less regular the last couple of months than it has been. Nice to see you again.
JOEL STEIN, "TIME" MAGAZINE: Nice to see you.
BROWN: I was at doctor today and he asked me about...
STEIN: I'm sorry.
BROWN: Pardon?
STEIN: Are you OK?
BROWN: Yeah, I'm fine. You know, it's a cold that won't go away. But it's not flu-like symptoms.
STEIN: Good.
BROWN: Yeah, I know. And he asked me about this rumor that bad things are going to happen in shopping mall.
STEIN: Right.
BROWN: What do you know?
STEIN: That's the Halloween rumor. Have you gotten this e-mail?
BROWN: No.
STEIN: You're not reading it either. I'm getting this e-mail.
BROWN: I'm not surprised.
STEIN: The e-mail is that there is a young woman who was dating an Arab guy -- either Saudi Arabian or Afghanistan -- and he takes off a couple days before the attacks. And he leaves her a note and it says don't fly on the 11th and stay away from malls on Halloween.
BROWN: And somehow this ended up to -- at a doctor in midtown Manhattan and thousands of other places...
STEIN: Right.
BROWN: Or perhaps millions of other places. Do we know how that happened?
STEIN: Yeah, I mean, the FBI had to look into this rumor. And there was supposedly a note and they were never able to find the note and they say it's completely not true. This -- different versions of this rumor have kind of been floating around supposedly since the Napoleonic war. Like basically someone -- the other version of this rumor which was that attacks were going to happen in L.A. And like some woman was on line with an Arab guy at some supermarket. And he was a couple bucks short. She gives him money. And then as she's leaving the supermarket, he says, "Listen. Thanks for giving me the cash. And stay out of L.A. this weekend."
BROWN: It seems to me these rumors fall into two categories. There are the really kind of silly, weird ones...
STEIN: Right.
BROWN: And then the ones that just -- you go, "oh, my." The U- Haul...
STEIN: Then there's the one with the (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
BROWN: What?
STEIN: Yeah.
BROWN: Thank you. The U-Haul rumor.
STEIN: Right. That there were 30 U-Hauls or Ryder trucks missing from the New York area. And the e-mail says that this woman knows the daughter of some FEMA director and he told her about this. A bunch of Arab guys took our Ryder trucks and never returned them. And it's not true at all.
BROWN: Not true. And how about -- on the other side of that is the naked woman rumor.
STEIN: Right. Like at 7:00 p.m., women are supposed come out of their homes naked. And this will throw off the Islamic people -- the guys -- because women -- naked women freak them out and they will leave the country. That one is true. Women -- particularly attractive women, should come out at 7:00 p.m. every night. I think.
BROWN: You do. OK.
STEIN: Yeah.
BROWN: Just a very serious news program. We haven't laughed much around here.
STEIN: No, no.
BROWN: Our bosses aren't laughing now. Isn't that funny how it works. Tell me about the Snapple rumor.
STEIN: The Snapple rumor is that Osama owns Snapple. Snapple has this bad history. Like in '92, I think the KKK was supposed to own Snapple.
For this one at least there's some reason why it came about, because in Saudi Arabia, Snapple has a distribution deal with a Bin Laden company, because you know that family owns everything and they own the distribution deal for Snapple in Saudi Arabia.
So Snapple had to release a press release saying this wasn't true, and they actually, I think, broke off their deal with their Saudi Arabian distributor just so that people won't get freaked out.
BROWN: About a half minute. I just heard one and I don't remember the detail. It had to do with I think Anheuser Busch or Budweiser beer.
STEIN: Yeah. The deal is that like a guy delivering Bud goes to the 7/11 in some small. And he -- on September 11. And he gets there to give them this Budweiser. And the Arab guys who own the 7/11 are like celebrating. And so he decides he's not giving them their Bud, and eventually they go out of business because they have no Bud. And Budweiser had to release a press release saying this wasn't true either.
BROWN: And just to make it clear, you spent your day checking these out, not starting them.
STEIN: The naked woman one may be the exception.
BROWN: Nice to see you. Come back again, or at least we'll discuss it.
STEIN: OK.
BROWN: Thank you. No rumor here. Michael Jordan is back. His comeback number two in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Well, we could drag out a lot of metaphors here, talk about second acts, and going out on a high note. But who needs prose when there's poetry -- oh my goodness, I sounded like a sportscaster there. Michael Jordan is back in uniform at the Garden. Opening night for the NBA and day one of Michael's second comeback.
When he came back the first time in 1995, he scored 55 points that night. Tonight he had 38. A little older. 19 points. Tonight he had 38. And his team, the Washington Wizards, used to literally be his team -- he owned a piece of them -- lost by two.
Yes, security was tight. Yes, Knicks fans, being Knicks fans, Jordan got some cheers and got some boos as well. Nice to have him back, though.
And then there's that other thing up there in the Bronx somewhere. We can tell the World Series is going on, the Yankees are playing in it. And you can tell it's the 2001 World Series from the security that is in place. We touched on this earlier. Here's a little bit more.
Gary Tuchman joins us from the stadium this evening -- Gary.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello to you, Aaron. It wasn't that long ago that when we talked about security at baseball games, we were mainly referring to cops on the scene to break up fights between drunk fans. But security these days has a much different connotation, and entering Yankee Stadium tonight felt like entering Fort Knox.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(voice-over): They've been playing World Series games for almost a century, but they're never been as security conscious as this night.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Secret Service is putting up metal detectors and they're checking all bags.
TUCHMAN: Arriving by Marine One, the president of the United States at Yankee Stadium to throw out the first ball. Arriving by car and subway, nearly 60,000 fans encountering an elaborate blanket of protection.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm glad to see it. The more the better. It makes me feel better about brining my kids here.
TUCHMAN: Most details on the security were kept under wraps.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sorry, no comment.
TUCHMAN: All fans, news media, and even Yankees owner George Steinbrenner went through the detectors. Some received more elaborate checks. But everywhere you looked, there were police command posts, police lights, and policemen and women. Helicopters ferried security personnel and dignitaries, including New York's governor.
GOV. GEORGE PATAKI (R), NEW YORK: People are reassured by the fact that we do have heightened security. They know these are difficult times and we have make sure we do everything we can to protect people while at the same time going out to games like this and enjoying our freedom. It's very important.
TUCHMAN: Many of the earliest arrivals at Yankee Stadium did say they were nervous.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's scary but I'm not going to let it stop my life. We are Americans and we are strong and we are going to get through it.
(AUDIO GAP)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Well, obviously we had an audio problem. But I'm sure what he was saying is it's a pretty good ballgame out there tonight and it's not over yet. Or words to that effect. Just ahead, people I like and the team that they hate. We'll be right back
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Finally for this hour, the New York Yankees. You either love 'em or you hate 'em. I grew up in Minnesota. The choice was really easy. And as it turns out, I had plenty of company. Here's CNN's Jeanne Moos.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The World Trade Center rubble is no field of dreams, but it has made the World Series more serious. Is it possible that the Yankees, resented for their success, resented for their payroll, really have become America's team? Nah.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've always hated the Yankees and I don't see any reason to stop now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anybody but New York.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm a loyal Met fan and I'll always hate the Yankees.
MOOS: But wait, even fans of bitter arch-rival Boston are letting slip an encouraging word.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's something about what New York has been through that makes me want the Yankees to come from behind in the same way that the United States will recover from this terrible hit we've suffered.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And with all that's happened, I won't be as disappointed if they win.
MOOS: Emotions stirred by the World Trade Center disaster even had Boston fans singing the Big Apple's praises at a game last month.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They were singing "New York, New York" during the seventh inning stretch.
MOOS: And then there was the moment when the manager of the team the Yanks beat to get into the series admitted the unthinkable.
LOU PINELLA, MANAGER, SEATTLE MARINERS: But I felt good for them, and that -- I really did. And it's a strange thought to come from a manager that's getting his ass kicked.
MOOS: From a rival manager to folks at a Florida retirement community's Halloween party, solidarity abounds.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have been there once in my life and even I'm a New Yorker.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So go Yankees?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, absolutely, the Yankees. And I usually say damn Yankees. Am I allowed to swear?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Those damn Yankees.
MOOS: There's enough hate for the Yankees to base a whole musical on, and the lovefest between former rivals is enough to make a Yankee's head spin.
You don't want any sympathy fans?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, we don't need sympathy fans.
MOOS: The series even has the secretary general of the U.N. quoting Yogi Berra.
KOFI ANNAN, SECRETARY-GENERAL OF THE UNITED NATIONS: It ain't over 'til it's over.
MOOS: These Boston fans can't get over their hard feelings.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mayor Giuliani specifically told us to go back to normal. And life as normal for us is hating the Yankees. So, you know, we're doing our patriotic duty.
MOOS: Instead of needling the Yankees, some rescue workers down from Boston went under the needle at this New York tattoo parlor.
JOSH EVERETT, MACDOUGAL ST. TATTOO CO.: We had a crew of 10 guys down here from the Massachusetts Correctional Facility and they all got Yankee logo tattoos. I never thought I'd see the day Sox fans would get Yankee tattoos.
MOOS: Their way of taking up arms. Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: I could see rooting for them for one year. I don't know about a tattoo.
Seven weeks ago tonight, my -- this is what we saw. Well, it's actually quite a bit different now when you look at ground zero seven weeks later. An awful lot has been done. But I'm not sure that the emotions of it has changed very much in seven weeks. It's still sickening to look at, sad to see. Seven weeks ago tonight. We will update the latest developments and more in just a moment.
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