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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown
Investigators Looking for Source of Anthrax That Killed a New York Woman; U.S. Intensifies Bombing of Taliban Forces
Aired October 31, 2001 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again everyone.
It's Halloween night, a good night to think about what it really means to be scared. Let's face it, most of us like a good scare. If we didn't, movies like "Scream" wouldn't sell out at the box office. And TV stations wouldn't do a month of horror movies -- a "shocktober special."
But that kind of scared is something we have complete control over. We can turn off the TV or leave the movie theater -- leave it all behind. The kind of scared we're living through now won't be neatly put away. As one editorial put it today: The real world is too full of real tricks. And the tricks just keep coming.
That was clear in New York today. The first inhaled anthrax case labeled a homicide here. A woman who worked at that hospital and then died at a hospital just a few blocks away. A case so mysterious, the White House spokesman admitted today the president is concerned.
And another admission, just as troubling: The attorney general says -- quote -- "We don't have progress to report on the anthrax investigation." As we thought about it, the only progress we could see is in the spread of the disease.
And in Afghanistan, old-school carpet bombing used to fight America's new war. The United States slams Taliban frontlines. And the Navy secretary aboard the carrier Roosevelt had a Halloween wish for the Taliban: May the Navy make this the scariest day of your short life.
We, of course, will try not to scare you at all, although we have booked a woman once called scary Mary to talk about airline safety and another guest who will argue that the U.S. government is too scared to wage an effective war against an enemy which doesn't seem to be scared enough.
And we'll spend some time with a group of people who never allow their own fears to get in the way of the job. Correspondent Beth Nissen, later in this hour, on the remarkable cult of firefighters.
The only thing you can be scared of, for now, is that the whip around doesn't work tonight. It usually it does, but after all, it's Halloween. Here are the headlines, beginning first with CNN's Susan Candiotti -- Susan.
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Aaron.
An anthrax death in New York, an infection in New Jersey -- two cases stumping investigators trying to find a common link among all the cases. And more spores found on postal machines under repair in Indiana. All this as authorities struggle to solve the anthrax attacks.
BROWN: Susan, back with you in a moment.
The latest on the shooting war -- CNN's Satinder Bindra on the ground in northern Afghanistan -- the headline, please?
SATINDER BINDRA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Aaron.
Just about two hours ago, we heard two thunderous explosions, the loudest we have heard here since the U.S. bombing campaign began in this sector. Now today marks the fourth day that U.S. planes have been bombing Taliban positions near the Tajikistan-Afghanistan border. And encouraged by such strikes, anti-Taliban forces say they will soon launch a major offensive against the northern and strategic city of Mazar-e-Sharif -- back to you, Aaron.
BROWN: And back to you shortly.
Over to the White House next -- Kelly Wallace has the watch. And the economy was on the president's mind -- Kelly, the headline.
KELLY WALLACE, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good evening to you, Aaron.
Today, we learned that the economy shrunk in the third quarter by the largest amount since 1991. President Bush quickly seized on that data to press lawmakers to -- quote -- "get to work" on a bill to give the economy a boost. While Senate Democrats say they are working, they just don't see eye-to-eye with Mr. Bush -- Aaron.
BROWN: Kelly, thank you.
And down in the bottom left hand corner on Capitol Hill, Kate Snow on airline safety -- Kate, the headline.
KATE SNOW, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, they're calling it hand-to-hand combat. Tomorrow, the House takes up two competing versions of a bill on airline security, two very different visions of what airport security should look like. And no one seems to know which vision will win.
BROWN: Thank you, Kate. We'll be back with all of you shortly.
Though, we'll begin tonight with anthrax. This was a murder in New York. Somebody murdered Kathy Nguyen and it's the hardest kind of killer to catch because it most certainly was a case of random homicide, the killer not knowing the victim.
And then's there's the broader question, the one that scares and worries everyone involved in this: How did this woman, who worked in the stockroom of a hospital, not a politician or a postal worker, not an anchorwoman -- how did she contract anthrax that made her sick on Friday, put her in the hospital on Sunday night, and killed her today?
Back again we go to CNN's Susan Candiotti. Susan, good evening.
CANDIOTTI: Aaron, how did she come into contact with anthrax? The latest and most curious, and perhaps, most troubling part of the anthrax mystery.
Investigators are supposed to solve mysteries. But after more than three weeks since scientists started peering through microscopes at those spores found in Senator Daschle's letter, authorities appear no closer to closing in on this case.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(voice-over): With no obvious explanation for the death of New York hospital worker Kathy Nguyen, the anthrax investigation becomes even more puzzling.
ARI FLEISCHER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: They are following all her travels. They are trying to determine if she traveled anywhere domestically or foreign, who she may have come into contact with, any of the people that's she's associated with.
CANDIOTTI: The New York death, coupled with the New Jersey woman infected with skin anthrax who worked for an accounting firm, are two cases making it even more difficult to find a common thread among all the known cases. Neither had apparent links to a postal facility.
About 30 miles from the contaminated postal facility in Hamilton Township, another New Jersey postal worker is now suspected of having skin anthrax. And now, this development: anthrax spores discovered on two postal machines shipped to a private repair shop in Indianapolis -- the shop now closed down.
GOVERNOR FRANK O'BANNON, INDIANA: The exposure was very limited. And at this level of exposure, anthrax is not a threat to human health here in Indiana.
CANDIOTTI: Authorities say the equipment came from the Brentwood facility in Washington. Two postal workers there died and two others are being treated for inhalation anthrax.
What makes top Indiana state officials very unhappy is how they first learned about the spores, not from the postal service, but on the news.
Amid the latest developments, the country's top law enforcer admits investigators are no closer to solving the anthrax attacks.
JOHN ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL: I'm not in a position to be able to say to you that we are on the brink of making an announcement here. We don't have progress to report at this time.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CANDIOTTI (on camera): One of the things investigators are doing: Sources say FBI agents, wearing those all too familiar moon suits, are combing through a huge amount of congressional mail, thousands of letters seized after the Daschle incident. They're looking for any letter similar to the one sent to the senator, the one that contained that highly concentrated form of anthrax -- trying to learn if Senator Daschle was the only target on Capitol Hill, or whether the plot was much bigger.
And, Aaron, just a short time ago, we learned of some new information being reported by the Associated Press. They say that there were preliminary tests coming in positive for anthrax found at something called the Stamp Fulfillment Services Center in Kansas City. It says that this is a U.S. Postal facility located in a cave, it says, at something called the Worlds of Fun Amusement Park.
Now these are only preliminary tests. The Centers for Disease Control will be conducting more to round all this out. But right now, it says that there's no indication any of the employees there are affected in any way, although they are going on antibiotics.
According to the Associated Press story, it says that mail or stamps to that center at that amusement park came from the Brentwood postal facility. That's what being reported in Washington.
BROWN: And that's an AP story that's just clearing, so we will take some time and try and figure out what happened there. It does sound vaguely like what happened in Indiana though.
CANDIOTTI: A little bit.
BROWN: Yes.
Susan, thank you.
I used to be able to keep track of the anthrax stuff in one notebook. Not anymore.
In Afghanistan today, it looked vaguely like Vietnam a long time ago. It may be a new war, but it was fought today like old wars Americans have fought, some more successfully than others.
B-52s and B-1s hit the Taliban front forces today. Nothing laser-guided about this, this is old-style carpet bombing, designed to kill, and more important, to intimidate. Just one aspect of the war. There's more to report.
Back to Satinder Bindra, who is in the northern part of Afghanistan. And so, in your case, we will say good morning.
BINDRA: Good morning, Aaron.
U.S. planes are definitely stepping up their attacks here. And just a few minutes ago we heard some more strikes.
Earlier today, Aaron, I was on the frontlines where Northern Alliance commanders are telling me that U.S. planes are trying to target al Qaeda camps. On Tuesday, U.S. planes dropped several bombs in the region and one of them came within a whisker of hitting its target.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(voice-over): A Northern Alliance Russian-built T-55 tank opens up against Taliban positions. For the past two days, the Taliban, on this frontline, are facing fire on two fronts: on the ground and from the air.
(on camera): Northern Alliance commanders say U.S. planes have been targeting this area to try and destroy al Qaeda camps. Some of the camps in these hills, say soldiers here, house fighters loyal to Juma Namangani, a leader of the Islamic movement of Uzbekistan -- and a close confidante of Osama bin Laden.
On Tuesday, U.S. planes dropped three bombs in these hills. One bomb, according to Northern Alliance troops here, landed just a short distance away from one of the al Qaeda camps.
(voice-over): So far, Taliban troops haven't fired back.
Other than bombs, the Pentagon says its planes are also dropping crates of ammunition to help Northern Alliance forces, but some Alliance commanders say they're unaware that U.S. troops are in the region to better coordinate air strikes, a presence the Pentagon confirms.
Northern Alliance leaders say the only U.S. forces they see have mainly been dealing with independent warlords, who are also fighting the Taliban, but are not part of the internationally recognized government of Afghanistan. Defense sources here say Washington must improve its relations with the recognized government to give its Afghan campaign a better chance to succeed.
GEN. ATIQULLAH BARYALAI, VICE DEFENSE MINISTER, NORTHERN ALLIANCE (through translator): The Northern Alliance has been fighting terrorism for seven years. If any government wants to be successful here, they should support us, because we are the main political force here.
BINDRA: After four weeks of intense bombing, Army officials here say it may now also be time for Washington to change its military strategy.
BARYALAI (through translator): Just bombardment alone cannot guarantee the advancement of our troops. It is not a guarantee for victory.
BINDRA: What could ensure victory, says the Northern Alliance, is to entice Taliban commanders with money or convince them to move to the stronger camp in this war. Commanders here say another 300 Taliban troops have just defected. It's a claim that cannot be independently verified.
In the days ahead, these troops hope to get more supplies and support from the Pentagon. At the moment, they're so low on weapons and ammunition that despite all the public pronouncements of their leaders who say they'll soon launch a major offensive, these soldiers know that may not happen for some time.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BINDRA: So what we have here is a military stalemate, Aaron, and with winter only few a weeks away and the Muslim holy month of Ramadan almost upon us, things are likely to slow down even further. Now, the Northern Alliance has been fighting the Taliban almost for seven years, and tonight they have a message for the American public. They say they have to learn to be patient.
Back to you, Aaron.
BROWN: Well, patience is being tested all around. Thank you, Satinder Bindra in the northern part of Afghanistan. Terrific job again today.
To the south of there, more air strikes in and around Kandahar. In this case, smart bombs were used, precision-guided, although the Taliban loudly questioning just how precise the smart bombs are. It's part of what might be called a Taliban PR campaign. So no surprise what CNN's Nic Robertson and other escorted journalists saw today in Kandahar was what the Taliban wanted them to see. Keep that in mind.
Here's the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Guns and grins, our Taliban escort prepares for the day. The heavily armed fighters provided for our protection, the Taliban say, for a tour of bomb sites that puts military facilities off-limits.
Downtown there was anger. Abdul Hadi (ph) vents his rage about lost friends.
Close by in the rubble of his cousin's tailoring store, 11-year- old Farid (ph) recites the names of three relatives he says died when a bomb destroyed it.
Whether or not they claim to have lost loved-ones, all here appear to unite in their condemnation of America.
Jan Mohammad (ph), a rickshaw driver, says America should not fight the poor people. "If they're going to fight bin Laden, they should fight him, not us."
Across the road and reduced to rubble, too, Taliban ministry buildings, bombed people here say minutes before the tailor's store.
(on camera): Likely an intended target, these destroyed offices of the feared religious police serve to highlight how a downtown target can be hit by a precision missile. But what the Taliban really want us to see here is just how much collateral damage there is and how many civilians have been injured.
(voice-over): Outside his recently bombed house, Haji Abdul Quayyum (ph) says he doesn't know why it was destroyed and refutes the idea there is a military base nearby. His friend Naseer Ahmed (ph) explains why many Afghans are now unified.
"Its not the issue of Osama bin Laden. They have not hit any Arabs," he says. "You can see with your own eyes. They hit civilians."
And so the tour continues to other sites. Along the way, however, a burnt-out armored personnel carrier sits close to houses. Downtown a U.N. demining vehicle camouflaged with mud cruises around with a new owner at the wheel. And out of town in the mountains, more military hardware, dispersed for safe keeping.
One of the Taliban top military commanders, however, claims only 15 soldiers have been killed in the four provinces he leads and that morale is good.
AKHTAR MOHAMMAD USMANI, KANDAHAR REGIONAL COMMANDER (through translator): We are not demoralized. In fact, the morale has been very strong. And after the American air strikes, we have become much more united and stronger. We believe in jihad and we want to become martyrs and we will fight until the last man.
ROBERTSON: Tough talk echoed by the Taliban foreign minister, who used a rare television appearance to quell rumors of splits in the Taliban.
WAKIL AHMED MUTAWAKEL, TALIBAN FOREIGN MINISTER (through translator): The Mujahedeed people of Afghanistan are passing through a very critical time. That's because Afghan people have been brutalized by big powers.
ROBERTSON: Nic Robertson, CNN, Kandahar, Afghanistan.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Again, and not to beat this to death, Nic's movements around Kandahar are controlled by the Taliban. The reports are not censored, but obviously what he sees is influenced by the Taliban themselves.
Still ahead, is there enough war in America's new war? Some influential voices are saying no. Be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: A little bit ago, we showed you pictures of B-52s carpet bombing Taliban forces. It looked to us like a change in strategy, though the Pentagon says no, no change. We're on schedule, they said, on tempo, fighting the kind of war we always intended to fight. Words meant to reassure, perhaps to quiet critics, and we'll talk with an important one in a moment. But first, some background on this from CNN's Bob Franken.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BOB FRANKEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's been just a little over three weeks, but already, the men running the U.S. military offensive are on the defensive, despite the upbeat daily briefings.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As you can see the vehicles were destroyed.
FRANKEN: Defense officials still have to deal with an impression that the war so far has been fought to a stalemate.
GEN. TOM FRANKS, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: Of course, I don't believe that this operation is at a stalemate.
FRANKEN: But the skeptics, almost all of them in the media, question whether the war has thus far fallen short of expectations. For instance, instead of being uprooted, the Taliban have dug in. Day after day, there are claims of civilian casualties that Pentagon officials call tragic but inevitable in war.
Still, each one adds fuel to the fiery claims by Muslim fundamentalists that the United States is targeting Islam.
Then there's the U.S. ground war, or the lack of one: as far as the public knows, there has been only one significant attack by U.S. ground forces, and a modest number of other troops in Afghanistan now.
But conservative critics argue the time has come to march in, do whatever it takes to dislodge the Taliban, and by the way, to find Osama bin Laden, the man wanted "dead or alive" by the president of the United States.
Even though at least one poll shows that confidence in the war effort has slipped a little, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld insists the vast majority will continue to heed the call to be patient.
DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: It is going according to plan, and there is no doubt in my mind that when we finish we'll still have good support.
FRANKEN (on camera): The critics, on the other hand, are dusting off Vietnam War-era terms, like "quagmire," a swamp that's nearly impossible to escape. And this is just a month into the Afghanistan war.
Bob Franken, CNN, the Pentagon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Last night on the program we mentioned a line from an opinion piece that said more or less there's too much discussion of post-war Afghanistan and not enough war, not enough scaring the hell out of the Taliban. Syndicated columnist and "TIME" magazine contributor Charles Krauthammer wrote the line in question for a piece in "The Washington Post," headlined "Not Enough Might." And he joins us tonight from Washington.
Good evening, sir.
CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER, "WASHINGTON POST": Good evening, Aaron.
BROWN: My most cynical question first: Do you think it's possible these B-52 carpet bombs that were bombing, that were carried out today were a reaction to the criticism that's come from Washington and elsewhere?
KRAUTHAMMER: Well, I wouldn't flatter myself to think that we have that much influence, but I think the Pentagon and the administration are seeing that they've got a problem. And that is for the last three weeks, the diplomats have been holding the generals back. And I think that's where the analogy to Vietnam comes in. We're trying to finely calibrate political outcomes in Afghanistan, and holding ourselves back militarily as a way to satisfy our allies, the coalition and diplomats, where I think what's important to do is to win, to win quickly, to destroy the regime in Afghanistan, and to worry about the post-war structure of the government of Afghanistan after the war, not before.
BROWN: Whatever happened to the Powell doctrine here?
KRAUTHAMMER: Well, that's precisely what's so paradoxical, because it's the current secretary of state who as a young man in Vietnam experienced what happens when we finely calibrate the military effort to satisfy the politicians. And what we suffered there was pain and defeat, and what we're trying to do today is to finely calibrate a political outcome in Afghanistan at a time where what is needed and what would be respected would be overwhelming shows of American power as a way to have a kind of a psychological shock impact on the opposition.
In fact, what's happened is that they have seen our first wave of power come and go with a lot left standing. And I think it's given the impression to the other side that there is a kind of uncertainty from the American side. And it's given them a sense of their own indestructibility and that I think is very dangerous.
BROWN: It's very early in this, but do you think a Vietnam-like quagmire, for use of a better word here, is possible?
KRAUTHAMMER: I think quagmire is wrong analogy. It refers to being bogged down in a ground war. We're not near to a ground war. The real question is have we conducted the air war as massively, as unrestrainedly as we should have, as we did, for example, in the Gulf War. The number of sorties is rather low.
And what's important is that at the beginning we consciously held back from attacking the Taliban lines facing the Northern Alliance, because we didn't want the Northern Alliance marching into the capital. Why? Because our ally Pakistan doesn't like the Northern Alliance.
So in order to placate our ally, in order to satisfy our diplomats, we restrained ourselves from hitting the enemy where it counts on the front-line.
What we care about is not who governs in the capital. It's that it not be the Taliban. That's our objective.
We need to make an example of that government. The Bush doctrine has proclaimed any government that harbors terrorists is an enemy of the United States. Well, if we cannot make an example of the government of Afghanistan, I think the entire war on terrorism is going to be lost.
BROWN: Charles, we'll check back with you as this goes along. Thank you. Nice talking to you.
KRAUTHAMMER: Pleasure to be with you.
BROWN: Thank you, Charles Krauthammer, the conservative columnist for "TIME" magazine and others joining us this evening.
Coming up still from us, Capitol Hill debates: how to make airlines safe. And we'll talk with one critic who's not sure either side will get it right. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: The longest economic boom in American history may well have ended on September 11th. The economy shrank more last quarter than at any time since the last recession. And the numbers which came out today only show what happened to the economy through the end of September. The quarter we're in now is likely, not certainly, but likely to be worse.
With that as a backdrop, the president and congressional Democrats are in a pitched battle over how to heal a limping economy, an old-time political battle.
CNN's Kelly Wallace has been following that from the lawn of the White House.
Kelly, good evening again.
WALLACE: Good evening again to you, Aaron. President Bush reacting quickly to those new numbers, saying the downturn makes it more important than ever for lawmakers to pass his proposed tax cuts, which he says will give the economy a kick. Mr. Bush telling Congress to get something done. Well, Senate Democrats say they will take up a bill next week. It's just not exactly the one the president is pushing.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WALLACE (voice-over): After learning the economy shrunk in the third quarter by the largest amount in a decade, President Bush, in a speech to business leaders, delivered this blunt message.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And so my call to Congress is get to work and get something done. The American people expect us to do just that.
WALLACE: Mr. Bush says Congress should pass a bill by the end of November to jump start the economy or risk watching it sag even further. Democrats say they agree with the urgency, just disagree with the president's approach.
He's pushing tax cuts for all income levels and tax breaks for businesses. But Senate Democrats say there needs to be more money to help laid-off workers.
SEN. TOM DASCHLE (D-SD), MAJORITY LEADER: We will fight with all that we've got to ensure that unemployment compensation and health benefits are covered in any economic plan that the Congress passes and sends to the president this year.
WALLACE: Another of Mr. Bush's challenges, trying to keep consumers, already jittery, from losing any more confidence.
BUSH: People ask me about the economy. They say, are you worried? I say, I'm worried any time anybody loses a job. But in the long term, I'm optimistic about the U.S. economy.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WALLACE: No one in the administration likes to use the "r" word, but one senior Bush adviser conceded today the probability the economy is in a recession has gone up since the September 11th attack, aides hoping this increases the pressure on lawmakers to get them to get a bill to the president soon -- Aaron.
BROWN: Just, Kelly, listening to the president's tone today, I'm curious about the political calculations here. Does the White House believe the president has enough popularity based on his handling of the war to date to expend some political capital on an issue outside the war?
WALLACE: They certainly do. They look at the polls, Aaron. They see his approval rating in the high 80s. Some polls even higher than that. So they do think that he can sort of get a little tougher.
Obviously, Democrats and Republicans both agree on the need to do something to stimulate the economy. Of course, the president has his ideas, Senate Democrats have theirs. But clearly, there's a sense that the president is in good standing, high approval rating, that he can kind of put some pressure on lawmakers to get to work and get a bill to his desk. But there's going to have to be some negotiating, Aaron. The president obviously pushing for a smaller package even that passed in the House. So he's going to have to give a little bit, but clearly, he's pushing the political pressure a bit as well.
Aaron, back to you.
BROWN: Kelly, thank you. Kelly Wallace at the White House for us this evening.
The House tomorrow votes on an airline security bill. The Senate version passed unanimously. But this, too, is an old-time political fight. Many Republicans do not want baggage screeners to be government employees. And the private security business is lobbying hard to keep its piece of what will be a growing pie. Many Democrats and unions see it differently. The debate seems to be evolving into a pair of caricatures: Do you want airline safety in the hands of burger-flippers or bureaucrats?
Don't you just love politics. Here again, CNN's Kate Snow from Capitol Hill -- Kate.
SNOW: Good evening, Aaron.
Tomorrow morning, the president is going to have a meeting, a last-ditch effort with some undecided Republicans, we're told, to talk to them about his version of airline security. One aide likened it to being called in to the principal's office.
They do expect to deal with airport security tomorrow afternoon, but as you mentioned, there are two very different versions. The president lobbying hard for his, and everyone conceding it's going to be a very close vote, but also saying they've got to do something.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW (voice-over): Similar stories from frequent fliers: a Democratic leader who received a note from the pilot...
REP. RICHARD GEPHARDT (D-MO), MINORITY LEADER: The note asked for help from the Congress to increase security in the sky.
SNOW: And a Republican leader on a flight from Dallas to Washington, the pilot showing off her last defense against terrorists: an ax.
REP. DICK ARMEY (R-TX), MAJORITY LEADER: ... it's a very menacing piece of equipment, I must say, and in her able hands I'm sure we would find people willing to back up. But the point was that the captain of the airplane should not have to be concerned with that.
SNOW: Similar stories, but two very different conclusions about how to fix airline security. Democrats support the bill passed by the Senate, 100 to nothing. Security screeners at the nation's largest airports would be federal employees. Republicans and President Bush want federal oversight of the people screening bags and passengers, but with the option to use private companies to do the work.
REPRESENTATIVE TOM DELAY, (R), HOUSE MAJORITY WHIP: Can you imagine what it's going to be to hire and train 28,000 federal employees when it takes three months to hire one employee? This transition could take forever. And in the meantime, the flying public and their security is at risk.
SNOW: On the House floor Wednesday, DeLay and his lieutenants worked to build support. They call it "educating members." Democrats call it arm twisting.
GEPHARDT: What's going on here is the companies that have these contracts -- the lowest bidders -- don't want to give up the contracts, and so they've hired expensive Washington lobbyists to come lobby the administration and the Congress so they can hang on to their contracts.
SNOW: But Democrats have lobbyists too. This ad is running locally in Washington, sponsored by the flight attendants union.
ANNOUNCER: Call Congress. Tell them airport safety isn't a job for the lowest bidder.
SNOW: There is some common ground. Both bills call for stronger cockpit doors, air marshals on flights, screening for checked baggage. Both would create background checks on foreign nationals seeking flight training at aviation schools. And to pay for security enhancements at airports, both bills create new passenger fees.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW: One late addition, though, could be controversial. Republicans trying to put in a measure to limit liability related to September 11th, saying it will limit frivolous lawsuits.
Democrats -- tomorrow you will hear them saying that that is not the right idea, that that would actually include airport security companies and could shield wrongdoers from liability. Aaron.
BROWN: Kate, thanks. Kate Snow has the night shift on Capitol Hill. Thank you.
Joining us now, Mary Schiavo, the former Inspector General for the Transportation Department, and currently a professor of aviation at Ohio State University. It's nice to see you again.
MARY SCHIAVO, AVIATION DISASTER ATTORNEY: Thank you.
BROWN: Thank you. Let's do -- let's do this question of baggage screeners first, and then look at rest of it. From where you sit -- and you feel pretty strongly about this stuff -- which is the way to go?
SCHIAVO: Well, I think both sides have completely missed the boat on this. Whether we leave it in the hands of the airlines and private screeners who -- and private baggage handlers who are indeed the lowest bidder -- whether we're going to give it to the FAA who's going to hire the lowest bidder -- both misses the boat.
The important point is that it is a law enforcement function and it should have gone to a law enforcement agency. I think, really, both sides have kind of missed the boat here and the debate has really mired down.
BROWN: The -- each side claims in one way or another that every other country who does this well essentially does it their way. Who is right on that? Do the Europeans and the Israelis do the Democratic plan or the Republican plan or neither?
SCHIAVO: Well, neither. Each country has a little bit of a mix. And some have a mix within their own security system. Some have mix of public and private employees. And of course, no one mentions the Japanese system, which is largely government employees, government police force, government everything. So there are many other countries that we can look at.
But the point is here we are going to have to have our own system, and it really has to be a higher level of security than any other foreign country because they haven't suffered the kind of loss that we have, which calls for a law enforcement response and a very highly trained law enforcement function. In this country law enforcement is government. That's the law.
BROWN: And the rest of the bill. Once we leave the baggage screener issue, do you like what you see?
SCHIAVO: Well, some things are inevitable. I know there's tremendous debate about the fees on the tickets for security. That has to come and travelers know that. Travelers are not objecting to that. Some airlines are still objecting. That should of course go into a trust fund and be earmarked just for security.
Other measures, obviously, were very, very necessary. But getting bogged down on whether they are union employees or not is completely a red herring. That make no difference at all. And it was interesting in the previous piece that one of the members of Congress, Dick Armey, and he mentioned that he was traveling.
He didn't mention it in this piece but he traveled with obvious air marshals on board. Some of those are, for example, my former agents -- and many of those were unionized. So we trust our lives to unionized employees but somehow now we have bogged the debate down and we don't think they should be union. That is the wrong way to go in this debate.
BROWN: In 15 seconds or less, if you will. When all is said and done, will it be safe to fly, regardless of version passed?
SCHIAVO: No. I am afraid it's going to take many, many months -- in fact, many, many years to get this system up to where it needs to be. Because remember, this has developed over 20 years. These recommendations were put in place after Pan Am 103 over a decade ago. So it's going to take many months and travelers are going to bear with us and are really going to have to accept some risks for many months or years to come.
BROWN: Mary, always good talk to you. I hope you join us again.
SCHIAVO: Thank you.
BROWN: Thank you. Coming up next from us, tomorrow's headlines tonight from beyond Broadway and the Beltway. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BROWN: Here we go. One of the things we would like to do is see how the news is playing outside of New York and Washington. Part of that is we are just news junkies and we get a fix wherever we can find it. The other, more important reason, is it's a good reality check for all of us in these difficult times.
So we'll check in again with newspaper editors from two other cities. That's two nights in a row we've been doing this. It feels like a regular feature coming on.
Rex Smith is the managing editor of the "Albany Times Union" in the state capital of New York up in Albany. And out of Texas, Tommy Miller, the managing editor of the "Houston Chronicle." Good evening to both of you.
REX SMITH, "ALBANY TIMES UNION": Good evening, Aaron.
TOMMY MILLER "THE HOUSTON CHRONICLE": Good evening, Aaron.
BROWN: Let's start in Albany. Do you know what your front page looks like tomorrow?
SMITH: Yeah, I sure do. We have plans for the front page, of course, that's 90 minutes before we go to press, so we can always make changes.
Right now we are planning to lead the paper with the latest developments in the anthrax story, with strong secondary stories about the impact on the U.S. economy, the recent reports about recession and the U.S. bombing in Afghanistan.
BROWN: And Tommy, how will you lead tomorrow? Do you know?
MILLER: We are going to lead with the economy story, Aaron, but also above the fold we will have the anthrax story.
BROWN: And are you localizing these stories or are you pretty much playing the national coverage?
MILLER: They're pretty much national with some local in the economy story. But pretty much national on those too. We have -- do have two local stories below the fold.
BROWN: And Rex, how about you? Are you -- perhaps in New York, you don't need to localize them quite as much in Albany. Are you trying to localize the anthrax story?
SMITH: Well, we are not doing it as much tonight. We have had our share of anthrax scares in our news room and elsewhere in the community. So we have certainly reported some of that, although we have had a sort of a policy decision to treat some of this anthrax fear in the same way that we treat bomb scares in the schools. And that is that we try not give it too much attention for fear of encouraging copycats.
BROWN: Well -- now that's an interesting one. How exactly -- given the magnitude of what is playing out across the countries -- talk about Indianapolis, Kansas City today. Obviously a lot here. How do you strike that balance?
SMITH: Well, you strike the balance I think by depending upon authorities to give you some careful assessment -- as much as they can quickly -- of the significance of the threat. We have found that health officials are fairly capable of quickly telling you this looks serious, or this seems to be just another one of the series of scares.
We had one last week in our own news room that scared us greatly. We are one of four newspapers in the state of New York that received an envelope from Glasgow, Scotland, that looked suspicious. And the state police, for a number of hours, were frightened by this . We took that very seriously.
On the other hand, some things -- this afternoon we had a truck that was left abandoned near the state capitol. That turned out to be nothing other than a driver who went off to get sandwich. So we don't report that.
BROWN: Tommy, your audience, your readers comfortable with the amount of coverage they are getting, or are they concerned that you are giving either too much or too little?
MILLER: I think they are comfortable. In fact, I think if anything they probably want more. I think it's the kind of story -- especially this anthrax story -- which just affects everybody. I think they are just interested in as much as they can get. We haven't had any -- any complaints about covering it too much.
BROWN: And the fact that it hasn't hit Texas doesn't change the way they feel about it? They want it all from you?
MILLER: Well, still, we have had situations here where someone has thought they had some anthrax spores but it wasn't. But you are talking about story that just really affects everybody, especially when you are talking about the mail.
BROWN: And let me -- let me ask you this slightly differently, Tommy. Is the character of the paper different these day in this ways: is it a -- less a local paper than it was eight weeks ago?
MILLER: Well, not really. I think our paper is sectioned where in the A section we have pages for national news and international news. And then we have a local section. Now, that local section has had some stories relating to the terrorist attacks and anthrax, but most of the national stories -- most of the stories out of Washington and New York have been in the front part of the page -- paper, I mean.
What has been affected is you have got fewer stories about other subjects in the A section. But I don't think it's had a major impact in terms of the overall makeup of the paper.
BROWN: And Rex, in Albany is the paper less of a local paper than it was seven and a half weeks ago? SMITH: Yes, I think the tone of our paper has changed somewhat. We had frequently been very proud of having a lot of local stories on the front page. Frequently all the stories on the front page would be local. We are a paper about a fifth the size of the Houston paper, so I suppose that is somewhat understandable.
But we have found ourselves frequently having much heavier emphasis on national and world news on the front page. We find that the tone of the paper really is a lot more serious.
And I think this is a time when a lot of us in news papering are reexamining some of the precepts that have guided us for, say, the past 15 years. And that is the sort of reliance on news you can use and on local as the guiding forces in news judgments. That may be somewhat changed as a result of the cataclysmic events of September 11.
BROWN: I can tell you, Rex, we are all doing that these days, in your business and in mine. Tommy, Rex, thanks for joining us from Albany and from Houston. We will do this again. Thank you.
MILLER: Thank you, Aaron.
SMITH: Great, thanks.
BROWN: Thank you. Coming up next, we'll take a look inside -- a first look inside the factory that makes the Cipro. 24 hours a day, these days, seven days a week. And you'll hear from the man running it. Coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: You may remember Tom Brokaw holding up pills on the air and saying "In Cipro we trust." In Cipro maybe, but what about Bayer, the company that makes it? Bayer faced a lot of criticism early on that it wasn't providing the pills fast enough or at a fair price. The company last week did reach a deal with the government to sell Cipro at a cut-rate price. That came only after Senator Chuck Schumer of New York called on the government to ignore Bayer's patent and buy generics instead.
Today, CNN's Willow Bay talked with Helge Wehmeier, the head of Bayer's U.S. operations. And she began by asking Wehmeier why Bayer didn't give some Cipro away for free.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HELGE WEHMEIER, PRESIDENT & CEO, BAYER CORPORATION: Initially, Secretary Thompson talked about 100 million tablets. Just take -- take the premise of that we would have donated that. Then he all of a sudden talked about the option for another 200 million tablets. Then there are nations like, who else is in the fight -- Great Britain is in the forefront of the fight. They will have a need to protect themselves, because there could potentially be an anthrax attack there. Do we deny them then, you know, the same free gift? Germany, France, Italy -- all the civilized nations around the world. What do we do? All of a sudden we become the free supplier of the entire free world. Clearly not an option.
WILLOW BAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Can you reassure people that there's enough Cipro on hand?
WEHMEIER: The nation can be assure, the citizens can be assured, everyone in America can be sure that there is and there always will be enough Cipro on hand. Absolutely.
BAY: Were you caught off guard by the criticism this company received in the early going?
WEHMEIER: We tried to concentrate on the supply, in quickly ramping up production. I give here our team great credit that on the day of September 11th they started to ramp up production, even though at that time there was nothing on the horizon about anthrax.
And why did they do that? Because we had the experience of supporting the troops at that time, at the time of Desert Storm, and we knew that America in one way or another would need to respond to this extraordinary horrific event.
BAY (voice-over): Wehmeier is so anxious to reassure people that there is adequate supply of the drug that he invited us into their U.S. manufacturing facility...
WEHMEIER: This is where we do the gowning.
BAY: ... a visit that required sterile jump suits, shoes, hats and goggles.
WEHMEIER: Let's proceed.
BAY: Employees are working 24-hour shifts, seven days a week to produce 60 million tablets a month. At that rate, Bayer will fill the government's order by the end of the year and still continue to supply pharmacies and hospitals.
WEHMEIER: There is enough Cipro around, particularly since the government really has built up an enormous safety stockpile for the nation. There is no need to horde.
And why I'm so adamant on this, because hording is just one step away from using the drug on hunches, on fear, without the indication, without the advice from a doctor. And that should not be. This is not cough medicine.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Correspondent Willow Bay doing the interview. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: We made a few calls earlier today to area costume stores, looking for a last-minute firefighter outfit. One person laughed pretty hard. A different store said, well, maybe a week ago we had one left. And another said parents were "calling like crazy" today for the kids' version, but they were sold out long ago as well. Not terribly surprising.
Firefighters have always been as viewed as selfless and brave and strong. But since September 11th they seem like something so much more, something we feel closer to, and something maybe we wish we could be ourselves. Here's CNN's Beth Nissen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BETH NISSEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Firefighters have heroism built into their job description. It takes courage and strength both to battle one of the most dangerous, destructive forces on earth.
DAVID BLANKENHORN, INSTITUTE FOR AMERICAN VALUES: They are heroes because they protect us, you know? They go in where people are in danger, and they save their lives.
NISSEN: Yet since September 11th, firefighters -- especially New York City firefighters -- have become the subject of a newly- pronounced public devotion, reverence, near-worship. Firefighters are depicted on magazine covers. Firefighter Halloween costumes sold out this year. New York City department stores honor firefighters in window displays.
BLANKENHORN: We're just grateful to them in some real and intense way. I mean, here in New York, people -- they go up to these guys at the firehouses and on the streets, and they just -- they just want to say how grateful they are.
NISSEN: What has turned fire stations into shrines and firefighters into icons is what happened on September 11th.
BLANKENHORN: I think the most vivid single image that people have of September 11th in their minds -- besides seeing the towers collapse -- is of the firefighters going in to rescue people as everyone was trying to get out.
You know, what these guys do, there's no moral ambiguity to it. They just go in and get the innocent people. They go in and save them. It's like a -- it's like Superman.
NISSEN: That analogy isn't lost on those who create comic book super heroes. John Romita Jr. has been drawing Spiderman since 1980. He's working on a new comic book issue, with Spiderman at ground zero, helping firefighters and rescue workers.
JOHN ROMITA JR., "SPIDERMAN" CARTOONIST: Spiderman is secondary. The real heroes are the firemen. They are up front and primary. These people are everyday people doing superherolike things.
NISSEN: Romita based his sketches on news photographs taken at the World Trade Center after the attacks.
ROMITA: The photographs I dealt with were all of them doing things heroically, grabbing people, holding people, leading people away, in the middle of the -- of the heat, in the middle of the -- that horror. And working until they took a break, took off their masks, took off their helmets. Cried a little bit. Took a break, took a drink and went back in there again.
I can't, in my mind, thank them enough, all of them, for what they're doing for me and for my family and for everybody in the country.
NISSEN: This new hero worship, say some social scientists, is something of a sea change for Americans grown increasingly cynical.
BLANKENHORN: We've gone from debunking heroes to needing heroes. We are in a time of such real danger and in a sense physical vulnerability and we need to be protected by the strong and brave.
NISEEN: And the selfless. Firefighters seem all the more noble because they are motivated by service, not reward. Full-time firefighters are only moderately paid, and 74 percent of the nation's firefighters are volunteer.
They carry people from fires, pry people from auto accidents, revive people after heart attacks. They save lives, and sometimes lose their own. 343 New York City firefighters died September 11th.
BLANKENHORN: We have a need for heroes as a species, you know. That is one of the distinguishing traits of humans. We have a need to have an idealized sense of who we are at our best.
NISSEN: At a time when the nation is challenged to do its best in the face of great uncertainty -- of unknown risks -- firefighters set a standard, of readiness, response, and resolve. Beth Nissen, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: We will take a look at Halloween in this very odd fall in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Few images of Halloween in -- on this October 31st. First of all, there is a full moon out there tonight, so it should have been a great Halloween. And it certainly is a pretty moon.
Here in New York, down in the Village, they've had this event for 28 years. It is a fabulous event. And -- not surprisingly, I guess -- a friend of ours who lives down there, a colleague, said it was the worst turnout she had seen in years and it was all quite sad. Much more traditional -- it does look like fun.
Much more traditional Halloween out in Sherman Oaks, California. Sandra Boscram's (ph) house, if you're out in Sherman Oaks, is obviously waiting to give away some candy. She's got it all decked out. And as if right on cue they show up. Anyway, for us it's nice to see people having a good time. And one image from ground zero today we want to show you. Four Brinks security trucks arrived at the scene this morning. Show them the pictures. Here we go. And why were they there, these Brinks trucks? To haul away $200 million worth of gold that had been buried there for the last seven and a half weeks. And that's our report for this hour. We'll update the latest developments in a moment.
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