Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown
America's New War: Terrorists Said to Be Targeting California Bridges
Aired November 01, 2001 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again, everyone. Remember the other day when the attorney general came out and said law enforcement across the country needs to go on the highest state of alert because the government had credible evidence of another terrorist attack? Remember that? And did you feel just a little annoyed that he only said that, that he didn't say what the threat was?
See if this makes you feel any better. The terrorists plan to blow up West Coast bridges someday soon. Emotionally, the difference between knowing and not knowing doesn't seem that great, does it?
Now, we don't know for certain that that's the plan, but in California tonight they are certainly preparing for the possibility. California Governor Gray Davis went on TV to announce the threat. It is credible and must be taken seriously. That's what the governor said. High-profile bridges on the West Coast are the targets, the Bay Bridge, there. The plan: to bring them down during rush hour.
In the House tonight, after heavy lobbying and much arm twisting, the private security companies are still alive in their bid to keep a piece of the baggage screening business at the nation's airports. It works out as a big win for the president.
And from the secretary of defense, it's the press, not the public, looking for instant gratification in the war in Afghanistan. He urged us -- and I do mean us -- to look to the devastation of lower Manhattan. How can anyone expect that America's new war will be over, a tough enemy defeated, quicker than they can put out the fire from September 11th?
We'll have more on what the secretary said today. Clearly he was trying to blunt criticism that the war is going slowly, but he had considerable insight and was great to watch.
Also tonight, our colleague, Jeff Greenfield, on an unforgettable World Series. He was at Yankee Stadium for that stroke of midnight last night by Derek Jeter. And, oh, by the way, how did he pull that off? Doesn't Jeff work nights?
We'll set that resentment aside and check the headlines. First from California and Thelma Gutierrez. Thelma, the headline. THELMA GUTIERREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, today California Governor Gray Davis announced California bridges may be targets of terrorism within the next week. The governor called the threats credible. The FBI says the information must still be verified. We'll have a full report -- Aaron.
BROWN: Thank you. We'll be back in a moment.
In Kandahar in Afghanistan, Nic Robertson has had a full day with his Taliban escorts. Nic, the headline from you.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, the second day of a tour by the Taliban, we were taken to a village where they said 92 people had died. Overnight in Kandahar we could hear fighter bombers, but no bombs. And north of here, Kabul, Al Jazeera get a written statement from Osama bin Laden. Muslims in Afghanistan are being killed, it says. Pakistan sides with the Christians -- Aaron.
BROWN: Nic on the videophone, we'll be back with you.
On Capitol Hill tonight, Congressional correspondent Kate Snow -- Kate.
KATE SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A real cliffhanger over airport security here, Aaron. With lobbyists and White House aides waiting outside the door, House Republicans delivered a victory for President Bush, passing his version of airport security by a mere four votes.
BROWN: And from the White House tonight, more than just a win on air safety for the president. Kelly Wallace, in the center of the screen. Kelly, the headline.
KELLY WALLACE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, an important win for the president. Also, the first test of his powers of persuasion since the September 11th attack. Mr. Bush lobbying undecided lawmakers in person and over the phone to get a victory.
Now, though, the White House looking for a victory on another front in the world of public opinion. The administration taking new steps to make sure its message gets to the people of Afghanistan -- Aaron.
BROWN: Kelly, we'll get back to you shortly and all of you shortly. But we begin tonight out West.
I was talking to a colleague in our L.A. bureau a couple of weeks ago, and he was upset, in the way reporters can sometimes get, that the biggest story of his lifetime was taking place somewhere else. Be careful what you wish for.
High profile West Coast bridges -- perhaps the Oakland Bay Bridge, the Golden Gate Bridge, who knows -- face what's being called credible threats of sabotage, to take place in the days ahead -- a rush hour attack that would take down the bridges and likely kill hundreds, if not thousands of people. How credible the threat is, is what law enforcement is trying to determine tonight. We begin with CNN's Thelma Gutierrez -- Thelma.
GUTIERREZ: Aaron, the governor's announcement came as a surprise this afternoon, not only to residents of this state, but to federal officials as well. In fact, the Justice Department took the rare step of releasing a statement, from the FBI's counterterrorism division, that says in essence that the -- quote -- "threat" is uncorroborated.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GOV. GRAY DAVIS (D), CALIFORNIA: We received information from three separate federal agencies indicating that there was a potential terrorist attack against suspension bridges on the West Coast, and that that attack would begin during rush hour November 2nd, which is tomorrow.
GUTIERREZ (voice-over): The most high-profile bridges in California? The Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco, perhaps the best known landmark on the West Coast. Nearby, the Bay Bridge, the longest steel high-level bridge in the world, linking San Francisco to Oakland.
The Coronado Bay Bridge -- it links San Diego with Coronado Island. And the Vincent Thomas Bridge at the port of Los Angeles, one of the top 10 busiest ports in the world, with record volumes of cargo moving through the 7,500-acre harbor.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Taking out this bridge would greatly impact the movement of commerce, and I'm sure the economy would suffer greatly as a result of that.
GUTIERREZ: In a news conference Thursday afternoon, California Governor Gray Davis said the threats are credible. According to the FBI, it is in possession of uncorroborated information indicating the possibility of additional attacks against the United States, specifically on the West Coast.
Reportedly unspecified groups are targeting suspension bridges on the West Coast. The FBI is attempting to verify the validity of this report.
DAVIS: The best preparation is to let the terrorists know: we know what you're up to. We're ready. It's not going to succeed.
CHIEF BERNARD PARKS, LOS ANGELES POLICE: All of our bridges and overpasses are part of our ongoing assessment, no matter what the particular emergency might be. And so ever since, we have been on a heightened alert. Our helicopters have been a part of a strategy of monitoring them.
GUTIERREZ: Governor Davis says he believes it's his obligation to inform the public. Is it safe to cross bridges in California? The governor says the bridges are as safe as they can be, but urges people to use their own judgment.
(END VIDEOTAPE) The governor has an unspecified number of national guard troops ready to protect various bridges. This is in addition to help from the California Highway Patrol and local law enforcement. CNN has learned tonight that the Los Angeles Police Department has had their dive team in the Los Angeles harbor, checking the area around the Vincent Thomas Bridge.
Now, the California Highway Patrol mentioned tonight at Sacramento headquarters, they say that the bridges will not be closed, that cars will not be searched, but extra patrols will be in the area -- Aaron.
BROWN: Thelma, to this point up until today out on the West Coast in California, has bridge traffic been pretty much normal, in terms of security, or has there been an increase in security since 9- 11?
GUTIERREZ: Well, Aaron, that's exactly what the governor had addressed today. He had said that security is about as high as it possibly can be. All of those measures were taken right after 9-11. Security has been stepped up, and he feels that the bridges are as safe as they possibly can be.
BROWN: Thelma, thanks. Thelma Gutierrez thanks from our L.A. bureau tonight on the threat.
One bridge in question, as we mentioned, the Bay Bridge, connects San Francisco to Oakland. And with us tonight, Oakland's Mayor Jerry Brown, who, in another political life, held the office Governor Gray Davis holds now.
Mayor Brown, nice to see you.
MAYOR JERRY BROWN, OAKLAND, CALIFORNIA: Nice to be on the show with you.
BROWN: Can you tell me exactly what you have been told and how were you told?
J. BROWN: Well, actually we got an e-mail over the emergency services network saying -- making this mention about a credible threat. But we had received earlier some information from the anti- terrorist task force, that is monitored and managed by the FBI, that there was useful information, but that it wasn't corroborated, so that the threat was really more downgraded than the first e-mail that I mentioned.
So that created a little bit of confusion. I called my police and fire and emergency officials together, and we set in motion the proper preparation in case there was some kind of attack. But I think it's fairly important to note here, that we are vulnerable. We have bridges, we have ports, we have nuclear power plants. I mean, that just goes with the territory of being involved in world, having military forces in 80 different countries, and being involved in a war with people who are out to destroy America. So we've got to accept that. We cannot let our lives be in any way radically altered, our whole social arrangement, because of these threats. We have to go on. I'm going to drive across that bridge, unless I receive a lot more credible information than we have today.
A. BROWN: Let's talk for a minute, then, about -- let's assume that that's absolutely correct, that somehow people need to continue living their lives as normally as possible. What we see in New York with, for example, the tunnels, is that trucks going through the tunnels are being checked before they go through.
Why is that not a realistic thing to do on these bridges?
J. BROWN: Well, you know, it could be. The bridges are controlled by the governor and the California State Highway Patrol. I know this, that our subway system, the BART, the Bay Area Rapid Transit System, has guards at either end of the tunnel when it enters to go under the San Francisco Bay.
So it's a matter of prudence, of weighing the disruption with the risk. And yeah, we can -- I just went down on an airplane this morning to southern California. The lines were very long. And we're going to have to develop a way to live with the risk of death and terror and suffering and tragedy, if we're going to continue to maintain a credible presence in the world, and not give people the impression, particularly over there in Taliban territory, that we're going to flinch in this effort to bring this terrorism to a close.
A. BROWN: Mayor, look, I mean, I think this is an interesting argument, in trying to balance how much security versus how much freedom. But I assume -- the governor went on TV today to talk about a credible threat. This is a serious threat. Today is different from yesterday, from the day before. All I'm trying to figure out is how the cities and how the states are ramping up security to protect the citizens as best they can?
J. BROWN: Well, you know, they got helicopters, they have highway patrol around. But you're raising a very good point: What amount of threat -- you know, you get a phone call, you have an tested informant, he has some factual information that gives it credibility -- where in this scale of increasing credibility do you then invoke the drastic measures of searching every truck or suspicious vehicle, as it goes across the bridge there?
I mean, that is a tough call, and I have to tell you, as mayor of the city of Oakland, I can't tell you exactly what it is, but I sure hope our governor is thinking about that, because it is a tough call. It's an important one. And it's a balancing. Because we're not going to shut down America and we're not going to shut down our bridges.
And if you want to inspect every car, then you virtually are going to shut down the commerce. You're going to exacerbate the recession. You may even turn it into a depression. And you will create suffering and all the implications of that, which would have to be counted as a victory for bin Laden and his confederates. A. BROWN: Mayor, then what's the point of issuing the warning? If all you're going to do is say to the terrorists, in this case, what the governor said, "we know what you have planned, but actually we're not going to search any cars that go by," what's the point?
J. BROWN: Well, I think you raise a good question. I'm not sure what the point is. What was the point of the attorney general telling us to be on heightened alert about something -- we didn't know what it was, we didn't know where it was, and we didn't know when it was. So I was driving in my car, and I'm looking out the window -- for what?
So, yes, we're all alert. And if you say, you know, use your own judgment, but there's no basis on which an informed judgment can be exercised, you leave us pretty much in the dark, which really is the foundation of your question.
A. BROWN: It is indeed. Mayor Brown, it's always good to see you, and it's always interesting to talk with you. I look forward to the next time.
J. BROWN: Thank you.
A. BROWN: Thank you. Mayor Jerry Brown, of Oakland, California. That was an interesting exchange.
We could sum up the anthrax story in a sentence, perhaps two. The mystery remains, the spread continues. Now here are a few more sentences. The head of the FBI in New York said "it's like a fugitive investigation. We want to know everything and anything."
And what he'd like to know most is how 61-year-old Kathy Nguyen contracted anthrax. She cannot help. The anthrax killed her. Here's CNN's Gary Tuchman.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The mystery of Kathy Nguyen's death deepens. The people who worked closest to her at the Manhattan Eye Ear and Throat hospital have now been tested for anthrax exposure.
NEAL COHEN, NYC HEALTH DEPARTMENT: There were 28 nasal swabs that were taken at the Eye and Ear Throat Hospital of coworkers who were in relatively close proximity to the deceased victim, and they all came back negative.
TUCHMAN: And the preliminary results for another employee with a skin lesion tested for skin anthrax negative. Environmental testing at the victim's apartment, so far negative. On Wednesday there was a preliminary positive for anthrax on Kathy Nguyen's clothing, but...
DR. STEPHEN OSTROFF, CDC: What we now have available is that the additional testing that's been done on the clothes is not confirming the first preliminary positive. So we think the clothes are probably going to turn out to be negative. TUCHMAN: Investigators say there is no evidence of contaminated mail, yet the anthrax that killed her is said to be indistinguishable from that found in tainted letters previously analyzed.
JOHN NOLAN, DEPUTY POSTMASTER GENERAL: Every aspect of her life is being studied right now to try to track her whereabouts, because we just don't know.
TUCHMAN: Tracking her life is even more complicated, in that she was already too sick when she got to the hospital to help with investigators.
Meanwhile, evidence of new anthrax contamination near Washington. The Food and Drug Administration has closed some of its mailrooms, after preliminary tests found anthrax spores in four of its mail processing centers in Rockville, Maryland.
And preliminary tests found anthrax spores in a postal facility in Kansas City, Missouri. More postal employees now taking antibiotics.
DR. REX ARCHER, DIRECTOR, MISSOURI HEALTH DEPARTMENT: Fifty-one individuals were already taking antibiotics. And we have given 123 additional people, as of 10:00, a seven-day course of doxycycline.
TUCHMAN: And in New Jersey, where seven anthrax cases are now confirmed or suspected, the state's acting governor has asked for anthrax testing at all the postal facilities in the state.
(on camera): Here in New York City, investigators express relief that nobody who lived or worked near Kathy Nguyen has so far tested positive for anthrax. But they say that fact only makes her death that much more puzzling.
Gary Tuchman, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: On now to Afghanistan, where Al Jazeera TV today got a letter that it believes came from Osama bin Laden. The letter, dated today, hand-delivered to Al Jazeera's Kabul office.
A lot of anger in this letter is focused on Pakistan for backing the United States, its offensive against the Taliban and Al Qaeda. One quote from the letter: "The Pakistani has stood under the banner of the cross," read that, Christianity, 'and God said, "Tell the hypocrites that they shall meet painful punishment."'
Now to Kandahar, the Taliban's spiritual center. CNN's Nic Robertson is on the videophone today. And today Nic was escorted by the Taliban to a nearby village where civilian deaths were reported. And the Pentagon acknowledged late today that village was attacked last week, deliberately, because it was identified as a Taliban encampment. With all of that in mind, We go to Nic -- Nic. ROBERTSON: Aaron, well, about 10 days ago CNN first reported the attack on that village of Chakhorais (ph). I'll start from Kandahar. We were able to go and film there. And as you said, the Pentagon did today deny that this was a civilian village, saying that the people that were killed there were people who were the intended targets.
Our opportunity to go there with the Taliban was an opportunity for us to try and get closer to the details that we weren't able to understand before, because we were not inside Afghanistan, and try and see with our own eyes just who was living in the village, how they were living, were there any military facilities there? And try and assess, from our best assessment, exactly what was going on there.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is cloth from children.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): Holding a girl's dress, Taliban officials show what they say is evidence of civilian life in the village. All around, signs of destruction: collapsed mud and brick houses, littered with what appear to be missile or bomb fragments. And more signs of domestic life: a box of soap powder here, a shoe there.
This visit with Taliban officials, a firsthand chance to examine previous accounts of civilian deaths here in Chakhorais days ago.
(on camera): Looking around the village, there appears to be a lot of evidence that this was a place occupied by poor people. There is a radio, what's left of it, and the scraps of what appears to be heavy armament. But it is impossible to verify the accounts of how many people died.
(voice-over): And some here wonder whether a convoy of cars that arrived that night might have triggered the attack.
Mullah Sahib Nahbi (ph), the local official, explains how eight cars came from Kandahar, carrying people he says were afraid of bombing there.
From a nearby village, Golber Khan (ph) says the village was so full of people, some had to sleep outside, and tells of panic in his family, when what describes as helicopters and planes attacked.
At the time of the attack, Taliban officials claim 93 people died. The figure now, according to locals, is 92 dead and 16 injured. And everyone here rejects Pentagon claims that Chakhorais was a base for the Taliban and Al Qaeda.
A few miles away, reflecting in solicitude at the edge of a desolate graveyard, Mungar (ph) mourns the loss of his brother and 30 other family members.
He says he was there when these bombs started falling, and escaped during the first wave of the attack. He survived, he says, by laying in dry riverbed nearby. Contrary to the other witnesses, however, he says only three cars came to the village before the attack. He, too, says he has no idea why they were bombed. No one dares to come back to Chakhorais locals say. They say they fear attack.
Indeed, our driver, who punctured his car on this trip, went to several villages looking for help, was turned away by several communities. Most around here, it seems, don't want strangers in cars turning up unannounced.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
Without being there at the site of the attack when it happens, or arriving there immediately after -- it's taken us 10 days to get to the site after the attack -- it is very difficult to make a sure and concrete assessment of exactly what did take place that night and who, of course, was in the village when the attack happened.
However, from what we could see, it did look like a rural community -- Aaron.
BROWN: And, Nic, just for the record, let's explain again to our viewers the conditions with which you are working with your escorts.
ROBERTSON: We are not allowed to visit military sites. We are escorted by the Taliban government officials and an armed escort. They say the armed escort is for our security. We have been able to tour around, and whatever we see, we can report.
We haven't been taken to military facilities, but over the days of traveling around we've seen weaponry stashed away in trees outside the city, armored personnel carriers hidden away in the mountains. We can certainly report on these things and (UNINTELLIGIBLE) facilities downtown, what we see as we drive along.
But what we're not able to do is get into those military compounds, get into the Kandahar Airport here, that we know has been a target, or make an assessment of what or how much has been hit, and put that in its relevant place next to the collateral damage that we've been shown -- Aaron.
BROWN: Nic, thank you. Nic Robertson in Kandahar, Afghanistan. It is Friday morning there.
Coming up from us tonight, the president's win on Capitol Hill, the fate of airline security legislation. That's coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: It was such a nasty political fight, it made you think we really were back in the old days before September 11th. Democrats accusing Republicans of being bought off by the special interests. Republicans accusing Democrats of putting politics ahead of air safety. Gosh, don't they know there's a war going on and that kind of partisanship is out of place? Guess not. In the end, Republicans had the vote, and the Republican version of the airline safety bill prevailed. It is either a victory for smaller government or private security companies, depending on your point of view.
Kate Snow has no point of view, just the facts. She joins us tonight from Capitol Hill -- Kate.
SNOW: Aaron, it was truly a nail-biter watching this vote come down to the last moment. No one knew who was going to win out on this one. In fact, on the key vote up until the last minute, it went from Democrats looking like they were going to win, then Republicans, then Democrats -- and then finally, Republican -- a victory for the president that ushers in a new way of security at the nation's airports, a new way of protecting air travelers.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: on this vote, the ayes are 214, the nays are 218. The amendment is not agreed to.
SNOW (voice-over): By just four votes, the House rejected the Democratic version of the airport security bill, instead delivering the president what he wanted: federal oversight of airport security screening, with the option of using private companies to do the job.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The bottom line is public safety. The president of the United States has asked for the authority to decide whether or not, at various airports, that end, public safety, is better achieved by the use of federal employees or by the use of private contractors.
SNOW: But winning that argument was a struggle. Democrats railed against the Republican approach, and pushed hard to make security screeners at the nation's largest airports federal employee.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're going to take the private security employees, the same ones that are failing us today -- some of them are convicted felons, some are illegal aliens -- but they're going to put federal uniforms on them. They're even going to deputize them! But guess what, they're not going to be federal law enforcement. They're trying to fool the American public.
SNOW: They nearly won, but six Democrats sided with the president. And Republican leaders put enormous pressure on their own, according to one Congressman, offering favors, money for projects back home, in exchange for votes.
At the White House, the president made a personal appeal to the undecided.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What did he say to you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He told us how important it is to deal with this issue in a timely manner. SNOW: The bill calls for stronger cockpit doors, air marshals on flights, screening for checked baggage, background checks for non- Americans seeking flight training at aviation schools. And to pay for security enhancements, passengers would pay a fee, $2.50 per one-way trip.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
Now, most of those safety provisions are also in the version of a bill that already passed the U.S. Senate. However, there is that key difference, and it goes back to the question of who does the security screening. In the Senate bill that they passed, it calls for federal employees.
In the House bill just passed, it does not call for that. So, Aaron, and Congress will have to work out the differences before they send a bill to the president.
BROWN: So it's not over yet, Kate. Not yet.
SNOW: It's not over yet.
BROWN: And more days of this. Thank you, Kate Snow, up on Capitol Hill.
As Kate mentioned, the president invested lots of political capital and a fair amount of his time today on this fight, and it paid off in the end. Kelly Wallace, back at the White House for us this evening -- Kelly.
WALLACE: Aaron, you are right. A lot at stake for President Bush, since he personally lobbied dozens of undecided lawmakers over the past several days to get a win. After the vote, the president issuing a statement praising the House for a bill he says delivers the tough security standards the American people deserve.
Now, while the White House enjoys this victory, it is fine-tuning its battle plan for another fight, this one with Afghanistan's ruling Taliban. This battle, though, fought not with weapons, but with words.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(voice-over): Is the Bush administration losing the propaganda war with Afghanistan's ruling Taliban?
ARI FLEISCHER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Absolutely not.
WALLACE: But White House Press Secretary Ari Fleischer says the administration can do better, which is why it's mounting a new public relations blitz in the U.S. and overseas, with a new campaign-style war room in the White House linked to offices in London and Islamabad. The goal: communications network capable of refuting Taliban statements throughout the 24-hour news cycle.
FLEISCHER: We're dealing with a regime that has lied, not only to its own people, but to its neighbors and to the people of the United States, the people of Pakistan and around the world.
WALLACE: The administration is not only trying to counter images like these, Taliban claims of civilians killed or injured by U.S. bombs, but also trying to win over the hearts and minds of Arabs and Muslim, who are seeing anti-U.S. protests every day.
President Bush, meeting Thursday with the Austrian chancellor, is also trying to hold a fragile coalition together, with public opinion of the military campaign starting to erode, even in some European nations.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
And so next week Mr. Bush meets in Washington with six world leaders, and delivers two speeches targeting an international audience. But he'll also be focusing on domestic concerns, about anthrax and the possibility of future terrorist attacks, in a speech that is being billed as a major address to the American people -- Aaron.
BROWN: Kelly, thanks. Kelly Wallace at the White House this evening.
Coming up next, taking on Donald Rumsfeld. You better be ready for it. The press corps knows that clearly now, after this afternoon. You'll hear from the secretary in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: In Iraq there is opposition to the American war. No surprise there. Saddam Hussein speaking out, calling for an end to the air strikes, permitting anti-war rallies. Nothing we would normally give much play to. It's hardly breaking news, after all, when things happen exactly as expected.
Still, there is so much concern about Iraq and so many questions about whether Iraq might have been involved in either the anthrax or in 9/11, it's worth taking a look inside country the country tonight, more for how it is being said and what isn't being said.
So we turn to CNN's Jane Arraf, who is coming to us tonight from Baghdad. Jane, good evening.
JANE ARRAF, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, the Iraqi government is keeping a fairly low profile war on this in Afghanistan, but it may actually be a temporary calm that we are seeing here. Iraqi officials are increasingly accusing the United States of laying the groundwork for another attack an Iraq.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ARRAF: You won't see pictures of Osama Bin Laden at this protest against the war in Afghanistan. There's only one hero allowed in Iraq, and that's President Saddam Hussein. His latest message: a call for the war and the United States to be stopped. SADDAM HUSSEIN, PRESIDENT OF IRAQ (THROUGH INTERPRETER:) The world like Iraq and its Arab nation needs steadfastness to face the aggression, make it miss its targets. It must not allow the U.S. to be victorious.
ARRAF: Iraq has no diplomatic relations with the U.S., so the Iraqi leader chose a U.S. computer engineer who wrote to him to send condolences to the American people -- but no condolences for the U.S. administration -- and this week the Iraqi president warned that the war in Afghanistan was a spark that could spread throughout the region.
What do people on streets of Baghdad think of the attacks in Afghanistan? The issue is so sensitive, we are not allow to ask. Some people might say the wrong thing, one official suggests. The wrong thing might be praise for Osama Bin Laden.
The world's most wanted man has cited the suffering of the Iraqi people as a reason that the U.S. must be punished, but in the Iraqi government there is no love lost for Bin Laden or the Taliban.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We did not recognize Taliban and we don't know these people.
ARRAF: The dislike is mutual. Many of the Taliban feel the Iraqi leadership shouldn't be in power, either. Some Iraqis allowed to give their opinion on Afghanistan: government workers at this meeting said the strikes were unfair. "Anyone, any Muslim would reject this. They're a poor country and they have no way to defend themselves," says this official.
Iraqis have withstood four major U.S. bombing campaigns since the Gulf War. The Iraqi leadership says it's willing to withstand more in its fight against the West.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
ARRAF: For Iraqis, the war in Afghanistan has some parallels. They know the impact of those bombs that most of us are seeing on TV footage of the night sky in Afghanistan. They know what it's like to have their leaders stand defiant in the face of U.S. military power. And despite what a lot of them say to the TV cameras, they are afraid that they will become the next target. Aaron.
BROWN: Jane, thank you very much. That is fascinating. Thank you.
Now onto the secretary of defense. As we said, the secretary is annoyed. And he took to the podium at the Pentagon this afternoon to say to those critics -- and many of them are conservative columnists in major papers who are criticizing the war effort and complaining that it hasn't gone well and it hasn't been done smartly and it hasn't accomplished very much. Said the secretary: you don't get it. He was, as the secretary can be, steely in his delivery, his choice of words, and the statement was clearly written, and it was direct and to the point: a verbal trip to the woodshed. (BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: I have reflected on some of the questions that were posed at the last briefing about speed of progress and questions about the patience of American people. If something didn't happen immediately -- and I -- I personally have a sense that the public understands the following facts: on September 11th, terrorists attacked New York and Washington, murdering thousands of -- of people, Americans as well as people from dozens of other countries, of all races and religions.
On October 7th, less than a month later, we had positioned coalition forces in the region. We began military operations against Taliban and al Qaeda targets throughout Afghanistan. Since that time -- roughly three weeks -- coalition forces have flown over 2,000 sorties, broadcast 300-plus hours of radio transmissions, delivered an amazing one million thirty thousand humanitarian rations to starving Afghan people.
Today is November first. If you think about it, the smoke at this very moment is still rising out of the World Trade Center. Or the ruins of the World Trade Center, I should say.
And with those ruins still smoldering and the smoke not yet cleared, it seems to me that Americans understand well that despite the urgency and the questions that were posed at the last briefing, we are still in the very, very early stages of this conflict.
The ruins are still smoking. That is, I think, important to reflect on. The attacks of September 11th were not days or weeks but years in the making. The terrorists were painstaking and deliberate, and it appears that they may have spent one or even two years planning their activities.
This is task that is going to take time. Victory will require that every element of American influence and power be engaged. Americans have seen tougher adversaries than this before, and they have had the staying power to defeat them.
I think underestimating the American people is a big mistake. In the end, war is not about statistics, deadlines, short attention spans or 24-hour news cycles. It's about will, the projection of will, the clear, unambiguous determination of the president of the United States -- and let there be no doubt about that -- and the American people to see this through to certain victory.
In other American wars, enemy commanders have come to doubt the wisdom of taking on the strength and power of this nation and the resolve of her people. I expect that somewhere in a cave in Afghanistan, there is a terrorist leader who is at this moment considering precisely the same thing.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: The secretary this afternoon. And oh, by the way -- which is how it came out at the briefing -- the secretary announced that if the weather cooperates and the Taliban stops shooting, more ground forces are going in. Americans.
They will do liaison work with the Northern Alliance in what's called target spotting. A lot of the precision bombing you see is so precise because someone on the ground is pointing a laser beam at the target.
Secretary Rumsfeld says more troops are cocked and ready to go. He said they would already have arrived if not for the bad weather and enemy ground fire making the helicopter landings too dangerous. And we'll be right back.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He always wanted me to be strong. When things got tough he would look at me and say, "Mom, get a grip." And that is what has gotten me through the last several weeks, remembering the strength that he needed from us.
Tommy had the nicest smile. He was the gentlest child you would ever want to know. He was never embarrassed to give a hug. Up until this very moment, when he came to our home, he always came in and hugged and kissed his father and me. He never outgrew that.
He is going to missed just for his presence. You know, he was -- in his own way larger than life. And he was absolutely thrilled when he found out he was going to be a father for the first time.
And as a dad, he just waited to be home in the evening to play with his little girl, Sara, and then they had their new baby, Allison, on August 31. And we were very blessed there, because she wasn't due until September 15. So he was able to be there and hold her and see her.
I want them to know what a wonderful person he was, how loyal he was to everyone that touched his life in a positive way. I want them to know how much he loved them and how much he looked forward to their being a part of his life.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: In the days after September 11th, it's fair to say law enforcement had a lot of suspects and not much evidence. Over the weeks, more than a thousand people have been taken into custody, and as far as we know, not one of them has been charged with involvement in the terrorist attacks. They are being held on other charges, lots of alleged immigration violations. And in many of these cases the files are sealed, making it difficult -- if not impossible -- to find out who they are and where they are being held.
The government says it's all necessary, and so far judges have agreed. Civil libertarians are crying foul. Both sides now, from CNN's Candy Crowley.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look out! Look out!
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It began within hours after attack. It continues to this hour. As of Thursday, state, local and federal authorities have picked up 1100 people since September 11th, including 185 for immigration violations. With a few high-profile exceptions, that's pretty much what know about those 1,000 people.
DAVID COLE, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY LAW SCHOOL: One of the most serious things the government can do to its people is to lock them up. And precisely for that reason, it's important that we know whether the government is -- when it does lock people up -- following the law or not. You can't know that unless the information is public.
CROWLEY: Of those taken into custody, we don't know who most of them are. Some -- we don't know how many -- have been released or deported. Of those still held, some -- we don't know how many -- are material witnesses. Most -- we don't know how many -- are being held on charges that have nothing to do with September 11. We don't know what charges.
Critics fear what we don't know can hurt us.
PALMA YANNI, IMMIGRATION LAWYER: Ben Franklin said "They that would give up essential liberty for temporary security deserve neither." A lot of what is going on here is giving up some basic freedoms in an attempt to have some kind of security, which is likely to be only temporary.
CROWLEY: Has everyone been told they can have access to lawyer? Has everyone had access to a phone? Has the treatment been fair, the interrogations above board? Nobody want to think otherwise, but some would like a second opinion.
RON KUBY, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: The history suggests that government functions best with a certain degree of openness. Everywhere in America -- in every little town in America -- you pick up the local newspaper and you read the police blotter. And you find out who's been arrested, what it is they're charged with, where it is they are being held, when their next court date is.
At the very least, the Justice Department should provide that information about the 1,000 people being detained.
CROWLEY: Critics of the information void have an uphill battle. There is no evidence federal authorities have acted outside the law, and there is little stomach on Capitol Hill or in the public to press the issue for proof.
JOHN ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL OF THE UNITED STATES: Aggressive detention of law breakers and material witnesses is vital to preventing, disrupting or delaying new attacks. It is difficult for a person in jail or under detention to murder innocent people...
CROWLEY: In this post-September 11th world, who would argue with that? Candy Crowley, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Coming up, we will check the local papers from two major cities, Miami and Denver. We're right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: If two nights in a row is a pattern, three nights must be a full-blown commitment on our part. Again tonight, we're joined by editors from a couple of newspapers outside of New York and Washington to see how the news is playing there and to see how their towns are dealing with these difficult and uncertain times.
Tonight in Miami, David Wilson, the assistant managing editor for "The Miami Herald," a paper that was out in front early on the anthrax scare. My, that seems a long time ago now. And in Denver, Michelle Fulcher. She's the national editor at "The Denver Post." Two terrific newspapers. David, let me start with you, because I think you know exactly what -- at this point what your front page looks like tomorrow, don't you?
DAVID WILSON, "MIAMI HERALD": Yes, As a matter of fact, we finished it a little while ago and the presses will start for our first edition in a few minutes. We have got the big story, we think today, is the House vote on the air safety bill, and they didn't quite line up with Senate, but they will work it out. They got most of the major agreement except who is going to check the bags, whether they're going to be federal workers or the private industry.
BROWN: This storm threat story, I gather, is a -- is it a pure local story?
WILSON: The storm, yeah. Well, that's the brewing hurricane in the Caribbean that is going to take most of South Florida's attention over the next few days away from these other, much more unsettling, developments. But it's something we are used dealing with.
BROWN: And it looks to me -- just to finish off your front page here -- that your front page is pretty split tomorrow between local and national.
WILSON: Yeah, that's been a trend over the last week, week and a half, where we have tried to get a -- more of a mix on the page, more stories that aren't necessarily entirely focused on anthrax or the war in Afghanistan. Not to belittle them, but we think people are starting to get a little more interested in a few more things.
BROWN: And Michelle, it's awfully early for you in Denver to know the front page, let alone be able to show it to us. Darn it.
MICHELLE FULCHER, "DENVER POST": Well, sorry.
BROWN: Do you have a sense of what's going on the front page now? FULCHER: We will lead with the air security story too. That's of high interest here -- as it is everywhere obviously -- but we have a major transport center at Denver International Airport. We have had major problems with backlogs there, up to four-hour waits, for quite a while. And we are also -- we have United Airlines as our key carrier here and they have faced all sort of financial peril as result of this.
BROWN: What else do you got on the front page, do you know?
FULCHER: We do. We have a story that the dollar bills that the president wanted to send to the kids of Afghanistan, that were supposed to go to the White House, are being held up because of the anthrax scare and are sitting in warehouses, apparently, and not being delivered.
BROWN: Is that a story that your reporters generated?
FULCHER: Yes, out of our Washington bureau. We have had a heavy emphasis on international coverage since this started. We have had reporters all over that region. And out of Pakistan tomorrow, our reporter is looking at what looks like an increasingly frayed support for Pervez Musharraf. People in the elite who had backed him previously are beginning to wonder now. The bombing campaign has gone on so long, the civilian death toll is mounting...
BROWN: Is it...
FULCHER: Ramadan is coming up, and then Osama Bin Laden today came out with his statement to al Jazeera. So there is kind of this growing unease in the sense that things are not going Mr. Musharraf's way.
BROWN: David, are there local stories that -- it's interesting time in the news business, because the ad business is horrible and so it's not easy to expand the paper, necessarily. Are there stories you are not giving much attention to that you wish you had?
WILSON: Well, actually, that hasn't been much of a problem for us. The folks who run the "Herald" and in particular the company that owns us, Knight Ridder have stepped up in a really big way for all of the papers to loosen some of the constraints when it comes to covering this story. So we have -- we have really moved in big way.
The -- Knight Ridder has assembled a much larger staff in Washington. There are some "Herald" people there that are contributing. And we've got more people overseas now than we usually do. We have a reporter in Jerusalem, we have a reporter and a photographer in Pakistan. And that's been a real supplement to the -- what we have been able to do.
BROWN: And Michelle, this came up in a conversation the other day with someone in Charlotte. Do you find that your reporters are having to report and write about things far different from what they were doing a couple of months ago? FULCHER: Yeah, it's been an educational experience for all of us. In fact, we have had a local professor and as late as yesterday to sit down and provide background briefings to folks who weren't as familiar with the area as they would like to be.
I have seen reporters with books on their desks about the region, people calling friends at universities, doing everything they can to get background and in a big hurry and make sure that what they say is not only accurate but culturally sensitive and really covers the breadth and provides the context that we want to provide.
BROWN: Michelle, David in Miami and Denver, thank you both. It's nice to talk to you. It was fun.
FULCHER: Thank you.
BROWN: We will go to the ballgame in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR RUDOLPH GIULIANI (R), NEW YORK: It was one of the those absolutely incredible World Series games. So I never had any doubt, even when there were two outs in the bottom of the ninth, just like I never had any doubt when they were down two games. And any Yankee fan that has any doubt should stop doubting. You have to believe in the Yankees and in Joe Torre. They're just really remarkable -- absolutely remarkable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: I gotta tell you, if he could repaint the town in Yankee pinstripes, the mayor surely would. Ari Fleischer, the president's spokesman, said the other day, "The World Series is part of the fabric of America."
And the Yankees and the Arizona Diamondbacks are playing a series as if to prove the fabric may have been battered by September 11th, but it hasn't been torn. A fall classic it has been. But it has been more than that, more than a ballgame, it has existed in the shadow of great tragedy -- never overcome by it, but never really escaping it either. Jeff Greenfield tonight, on baseball and the war.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SENIOR ANALYST (voice-over): In ordinary times there might be thing to complain about tonight: the ever-longer baseball schedule that has made the October classic now a November classic; the ever-lengthening baseball games that mean that contests that once ended in autumn sunlight now end in autumn's midnight. We might be complaining about the fact that no one ever seems to be able to beat the New York Yankees in a World Series.
These are not ordinary times. Even before fans are allowed inside this refuge from the cares of the outside world, they are bluntly reminded of the dangers of the outside world.
On the field, where men play games to divert and to entertain, there is now solemnity before the game begins.
ANNOUNCER: Ladies and gentlemen, will you please rise...
GREENFIELD: And these days...
ANNOUNCER: ...the world-famous Irish tenor...
GREENFIELD: Fans no longer mark the seventh inning stretch with "Take Me Out to the Ball Game" but instead with a song that is a prayer and a plea.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (singing): God bless America...
GREENFIELD: For the men who play this game for a living, there is a sense of living two lives at once. The game requires them to block out the outside world, even when that is a hugely difficult mental task. Mike Morgan, a Diamondback relief pitcher, is a 20-year veteran of the major leagues.
MIKE MORGAN, ARIZONA DIAMONDBACKS: We talk about it in the bullpen. We talked about it in the bullpen during the season. We talk about it out here. But once the phone rings and one of us gets up and we are out here pitching, we are not thinking about it. Everybody gets teary-eyed. You know, I'm standing on the mound last night and I'm about -- teary eyed listening to "God Bless America." You know, (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
GREENFIELD: In one sense, all that has happened makes the tension of a tight World Series a welcome interlude.
Do you find it's sometimes a relief to come to the ballpark and worry about your pitching and your defense, your hitting, and be -- just be able to put all that stuff away for a while?
JOE TORRE, NEW YORK YANKEES MANAGER: Yeah, Jeff, I think it is. It's -- it gives us a chance to hide out. It really does, because during that time right after the incident -- the September 11th, you know, tragedy -- it was a helpless feeling, sitting home, and being of no us whatsoever. At least we feel like we are doing something.
GREENFIELD: For Yankee fans, Wednesday night's storybook ending, a two-out, game-tying homerun.
ANNOUNCER: Jeter has hit to right.
GREENFIELD: A game winning extra-inning homerun...
ANNOUNCER: Game over!
GREENFIELD: ... was all they could ask for. Maybe it was even enough to erase -- at least for a while -- all the ways that that other reality had made itself so painfully know. The late Chief Justice Earl Warren used to say that he read the front pages to read of mankind's disastrous failures and the sports pages to read of mankind's great triumphs. In these times, even setting for some of those greatest triumphs can not escape the shadow of one of those greatest disasters.
Jeff Greenfield, CNN, at Yankee Stadium in New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
That's our coverage for this hour. We will update latest developments in a moment.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
