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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown
An Elderly Woman in Connecticut Infected With Anthrax; In Kunduz the Northern Alliance Issue an Ultimatum to the Taliban; Women in Afghanistan Struggle to Reclaim Rights
Aired November 20, 2001 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WILLOW BAY, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everyone. I'm Willow Bay sitting in for Aaron Brown.
The fear of anthrax has gone into serious retreat over the past month -- no more magazine covers, fewer pictures of hazmat workers or buildings blocked off with yellow tape. There's a good reason we've become less afraid. We haven't had news of a chilling and utterly mysterious case in nearly a month.
But we got one tonight, and this one may be more puzzling than the last. A woman in Connecticut, a tiny town, has a suspected case of inhaled anthrax. She's in her 90s, lives alone -- no known tie to the post office. Reminiscent of the case in New York that remains an unsolved mystery.
We'll talk with Connecticut's governor in just a bit. But this is not the only anthrax development we've had in recent days. We got confirmation today the letter addressed to Senator Patrick Leahy was as lethal as the one to Senator Daschle. And traces were found in the offices of Senator Ted Kennedy and Senator Christopher Dodd.
Anthrax was the big story that developed late this afternoon, but we also have a lot of ground to cover in Afghanistan: the war, the refugees, and the fate of women's rights. We've seen their faces slowly, cautiously revealed on the streets, but they've lost their rights in a flash before. That's all coming up.
But we want to start with a quick whip around the world to check in with our reporters. Beginning with CNN's Brian Cabell in Derby, Connecticut, and that anthrax investigation -- Brian.
BRIAN CABELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Willow, this is just exactly the news we did not want to hear. Another case of anthrax, this time a 94-year-old women in southwestern Connecticut. Nobody seems to know how she contracted that disease -- Willow.
BAY: Thanks, Brian. Now for the latest on America's new war. Military affairs correspondent, Jamie McIntyre -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN MILITARY AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Willow, tonight there may seem like there's a little bit of a pause or lull in the action on the ground in Afghanistan, but not in the minds of U.S. military planners. Pentagon sources say that three more AC- 130 gunships are heading to a base in Uzbekistan, where they can be closer to the action. And the U.S. is contemplating putting more troops on the ground.
BAY: To the capital of Afghanistan, Kabul, and Christiane Amanpour -- Christiane.
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The president of Afghanistan, Rabbani, he believes that the war is almost over. And he is also given a breakthrough on the political track. It appears now that the faction leaders will meet outside of Afghanistan, as early as Monday, perhaps in Germany, to finally get the political track off the ground.
BAY: Thanks, Christiane. We'll get back to all of you in a few minutes, but we want to begin with a story that consumed the nation for weeks, flaring up yet again: anthrax.
There's a suspected case of inhaled anthrax, the lethal form, in a small Connecticut town -- a woman who's in her 90s. But figuring out whether she has anthrax will probably be a lot easier than figuring out how she got it. The women lives alone and she has no known connection to the post office.
Now, if that has a disturbing ring to it, it should. A woman in New York City died of inhaled anthrax last month, who also had no clear contact with any anthrax hot-spot. Where she got it remains a complete mystery. CNN's Brian Cabell is at Griffin Hospital in Derby, Connecticut, where the woman is being treated -- Brian.
CABELL: Willow, the woman's name has not been released yet, but they tell us she is 94 years old. She has been living alone in the town of Oxford, Connecticut -- that's a town in southwestern Connecticut. She's now in the critical care unit here at Griffin Hospital. She's with some family members. She's also with her primary care physician, also an infectious disease specialist, also an internist.
She arrived here on Friday, officials say, and apparently, they say, she had pneumonia.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PATRICK CHARMEL, PRESIDENT, GRIFFIN HOSPITAL: She presented with symptoms of an upper respiratory infection, and based on preliminary laboratory results, she was treated for a possible anthrax infection. A series of laboratory tests were performed, first here at Griffin Hospital, and then subsequently at the State Health Department. All tests that have been performed to date are positive for anthrax. But definitive testing has not yet been done.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CABELL: All tolled, she has undergone five tests, all of them proving positive for anthrax. But now a specimen has been sent to the CDC in Atlanta. That will be the definitive result. That should come in sometime tomorrow. And CDC representative has been here all afternoon long. Another team of about six are arriving in the next couple of hours. This, for a full-scale investigation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. JOHN ROWLAND, CONNECTICUT: There's no evidence at this point that anybody else has been exposed. We have the state police, the FBI, our department of public health officials and the department of environmental protection, are meeting right now, and will be going to the home to do some preliminary investigations, and follow all the appropriate procedures.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CABELL: FBI agents are also on the scene, here. What's particularly baffling, of course, is that it's been a number of weeks since we had the last anthrax case. This is about two hours from New York. And this 94-year-old woman, as we understand, has had rather limited activity -- not a shut-in, exactly, but she has not had much contact with anything that would seem to connect her in any way to anthrax.
So at this point, Willow, investigators are truly baffled by this case.
BAY: Thank you, Brian. Brian Cabell, reporting from Connecticut.
Now, if this turns out to be anthrax, it's a real curve ball for investigators. And it's not the only one they're dealing with. No one knows how a New York woman came down with a fatal case. No one knows where any of this stuff is coming from. But some theories are shaping up.
CNN's Eileen O'Connor is following the investigation, and she's in Washington tonight. Eileen, what can you tell us?
EILEEN O'CONNOR, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Willow, both of these women may be curve balls to investigators, but it's sometimes those curve balls that actually can give them the kinds of breaks they need in a case. What they've been doing with Cathy Nguyen, the women who died in New York of inhalation anthrax -- she, too, was not a postal worker, a hospital worker.
They've retraced her steps, and they're still concentrating on that case, trying to determine just who she might have come into contact with. Perhaps it was the person who sent the anthrax letters. They'll be doing the same thing with this woman in Connecticut, if it is determined that this woman does have anthrax.
In addition, though, they say that by the letters that have been sent that they have found -- the letter to Senator Tom Daschle, also the letters to the media, and now, a third letter to Senator Patrick Leahy -- all of those letters, analyzing them, have given them some clues as to the personality of the person sending the letter -- clues that the attorney general says is pointing in the direction of a domestic terrorist.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL: The FBI recently released a profile which indicated the kind of person -- a person talented in chemistry, familiar with the Trenton, New Jersey area. A person who tends to be a loner. There are other characteristics.
Since we've released that profile, we have been the recipients of a number of tips. We believe that they're valuable. We're following them up. And while we can't say with any conclusive sense of finality that this is a domestic setting, the kind of profile that's been indicated and the kind of tips we're getting would tend to lead us in that direction.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'CONNOR: Now, one of the things the profilers brought out was the similarity between the kind of writing. Perhaps it's a person who's holding a grudge, the kind of personality traits, a single adult male, someone who's somewhat of a loner, they believe. Could be similar to serial bombers that you've had in the past, people like Ted Kaczynski.
They're not ruling out foreign terrorist groups. They're not ruling out al Qaeda, but they do say that right now the evidence is pointing to a person, perhaps an individual, someone who may be holding some kind of grudge, be it political or personal.
In addition, Willow, there is that letter to Senator Patrick Leahy. They still have not opened it, investigators. Trying to figure out the best way to do that, and preserve evidence -- Willow.
BAY: Eileen, in terms of the Connecticut case, if they do get that positive and conclusive result from the CDC, what do investigators do next?
O'CONNOR: Well, they've already sealed off this woman's house. That's a safety precaution, because they do not know where this contamination has come from. Perhaps her house is more contaminated, they don't want people to go in there.
And what they will do is they will retrace her steps. They will see, perhaps, has she been in any postal facilities. They will look through her mail and her belongings. They'll be testing all of that. They'll also try to go back and see who she has been acquainted with, perhaps even look at a relative who might have come into contact with her, perhaps coming in to visit her.
And they will try to determine in that way, where she may have been exposed to the anthrax -- Willow.
BAY: Eileen O'Connor from Washington this evening, thanks for the update.
Joining us now from Hartford, Connecticut, Governor John Rowland. Governor, thank you very much for joining us tonight on NEWSNIGHT.
ROWLAND: My pleasure.
BAY: What can you tell us about the woman's condition?
ROWLAND: Well, she's in critical condition. As you've reported, she's 94 years old. She went into the hospital with what evidence thought was pneumonia. The hospital was alert enough to do two tests for anthrax, and both were positive. We then went to the Department of Public Health, and three tests were conducted. And all those turned up positive.
So the CDC has picked up a specimen this evening, and I hope to have some results first thing tomorrow morning. As you also mention, they have a team coming on site. The FBI and our own state police are on-site as well. Right about now, they should be going into the home and trying to do some preliminary investigative work.
But as you said, it is a puzzle. To think that someone would target a 94 year old women living in Oxford, Connecticut is kind of hard to believe or imagine. But just the same, it's very puzzling when you see all these reports of anthrax around the country, and try to piece it together to see who is responsible.
BAY: At what point -- can tell us -- did she start receiving treatment for anthrax?
ROWLAND: She went in on Friday. Again, they thought it was pneumonia, and within a day or two they began the anthrax tests and then started treating her with antibiotics. We then got the report, just this afternoon, from the Department of Public Health. And then of course, the fourth test was done by the Center for Disease Control.
So there is a slight possibility, and we're hopeful, that CDC will come back tomorrow and tell us that it's a negative report. But right now, all the scientists confirm that -- you know, when you've had those first three tests done, it's very unusual to have the last one go negative. Again, it's very puzzling. There's no reason to believe this woman has traveled a lot or has a lot of exposure to post offices, or even public places. She was pretty much staying at home.
BAY: Now, this is the first report of anthrax in your state. Are you concerned that there will be more?
ROWLAND: Well, we're all concerned. Why this one instance? We're going to be doing the back trace to figure out where she's been, who she's been in contact with. I think it's important that people know that it's not contagious from one person to another. I know that's great concern to people that, for example, are in the hospital.
So it's unsettling for anyone in any state to have a case like this. And you scratch your head and try to figure it all out, and just hope that the FBI can piece together all these puzzles that we've seen over the last six or seven weeks.
I've talked to Tom Ridge, and he is right on top of this issue. He has obviously got all of our resources and his resources working together, so that's very reassuring for all of us.
BAY: Worst-case scenario, there are other victims in your state. Are you confident that you are prepared, in terms of manpower and medicine?
ROWLAND: We are. We are. We actually produce the antibiotic right here in Connecticut, the pharmaceutical company is here. So we're trying to evaluate what other exposures there could be. I've told people that if you have those pneumonia-type symptoms to go into the hospital for peace of mind and get tested. We don't want to be alarmist, and we've told people to go on with their lives. Go to school, do the normal things you would do.
Again, this is a very remote, isolated case, especially -- you know, if we had affected someone in a school or someone of a younger age, that was publicly out, or a postal worker or somebody, then you can kind of see how the pieces come together. But just like the case in New York, somewhat remote. Again, not a lot of public interaction. So it's very hard to figure out for all of us, but I have a lot of faith in the FBI and our local law enforcement officials.
BAY: And again, at this point, any indication that you have received that the state of Connecticut was in fact a target of some sort of terrorist attack?
ROWLAND: I don't think anybody has been a target of any terrorist attack. I don't think the FBI has been able to confirm that about any of the victims of anthrax. So we're one of the next series of events that have taken place over the last several weeks. And Connecticut has never been an attack, or never has been under threat of attack.
Again, it has been reported, we have no idea where this comes from. So we shouldn't jump to any conclusions, and let's hope it's a remote accident, and that there is somebody out there, as was mentioned earlier, that's doing something from a domestic nature. And if that's the case, I've got a lot of confidence that our FBI and homeland security people will track that individual or group of individuals down, and prosecute them.
BAY: Governor Rowland, thank you very much for joining us.
ROWLAND: Thank you.
BAY: Again, our thoughts and best wishes to the woman in the hospital tonight.
ROWLAND: All our prayers are with her and her family. Thank you.
BAY: Thank you.
Up next, "America's New War." A fight to the last for the Taliban. An update from the ground, coming up on NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BAY: More than a week after the fall of Kabul, opposition forces control about 75 percent of Afghanistan. But what looked like a rout last week is looking like a standoff tonight. Talks are under way, aimed at getting the Taliban out of Kandahar and Kunduz, the last two cities they control.
In Kunduz, they're backed up by a Northern Alliance ultimatum: leave in three days or else. They're holding their fire for now. U.S. forces are not. For more on that, we turn once again to CNN's Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon -- Jamie.
MCINTYRE: Well, it may look like a lull up in the north near Kunduz, but the Pentagon, according to sources, is moving three very powerful gunships, AC-130 gunships, that have the capacity to just pulverize targets on the ground -- moving them to bases in Uzbekistan, where they will be much closer to attacking targets in the north.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(voice-over): The U.S. continued bombing the last Taliban and al Qaeda strongholds in Kunduz and Kandahar, while opposition forces work to negotiate terms of surrender. The Pentagon says there's no bombing pause, except as requested by opposition commanders.
REAR ADM. JOHN STUFFLEBEEM, JOINT STAFF DEPUTY OPS. DIRECTOR: If the opposition groups were to ask us not to bomb a specific facility or location so they could continue their discussions, we'll certainly honor that.
MCINTYRE: Pentagon sources say the U.S. is considering beefing up its forces on the ground, by sending in Marines from ships off the coast of Pakistan. Pentagon sources say, depending on the mission, the number could be few as 100, or as many as 1,600.
With fighting at a standoff in both Kandahar and Kunduz, the U.S. dropped more wanted leaflets over Afghanistan, advertising a reward of up to $25 million for information leading to Osama bin Laden. The one thing the Pentagon doesn't want is for bin Laden, or any top Taliban or al Qaeda leaders, to engineer an escape.
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: If those folks were set free or in any way allowed to go to another country and cause the same kind of terrorist acts, it would be most unfortunate.
MCINTYRE: U.S. officials now say as many as 50 al Qaeda members died last week, in a series of airstrikes that killed Mohammed Atef, a chief deputy to bin Laden.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
And Pentagon sources tell CNN that after that building where Atef was first struck by a U.S. Navy F-18 with a laser-guided bomb, the U.S. watched as suspected al Qaeda members poured out of the building, and then went back in, presumably to rescue people in the rubble. That's when the United States called in a second airstrike. Another U.S. Navy F-18 dropped another bomb, which is what resulted in the high death toll. As many as 50 al Qaeda members killed, including what some Pentagon officials called low level leadership -- Willow.
BAY: Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon this evening. Thanks, Jamie.
When the fighting began, there was concern that things on the ground were getting ahead of efforts to build a new Afghan government. It turned out to be true. And now that warlords have the upper hand, diplomacy is getting even trickier.
For that and the rest of today's developments, we head back to Kabul and CNN's Christiane Amanpour -- Christiane.
AMANPOUR: Willow, exactly true. The political track has been lagging far behind. But in the last week, the U.S. special envoy, Ambassador Jim Dobbins, and the U.N. special envoy, Francesc Vendrell, have been holding a series of meetings, trying to really make this political track take off.
We interviewed the president of Afghanistan, the one who the United Nations recognize, and who still holds Afghanistan's U.N. seat, Rabbani. We interviewed him yesterday and asked him, even though his forces were still in Kabul, was he here to seize control, or was he prepared for this broad-based alliance, and to share power, as envisioned by the United Nations?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BURHANUDDIN RABBANI, AFGHAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Yes, I've already assured you, and I will assure you again that we came to Kabul to bring peace and ensure security, and pave the way to invite Afghan groups to come here and start the peace process.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: Now, after that interview, Francesc Vendrell, alongside the Northern Alliance foreign minister, Dr. Abdullah, announced that after a great deal of pressure, the Northern Alliance -- they're also called the United Front -- would now agree to hold a consultation with other factional leaders, a political meeting outside of Afghanistan. We're told Germany, and we're told it could be this coming Monday.
Now, it's important for the U.N. that this is held outside Afghanistan, because they feel that's a neutral site, and it won't prejudice the other faction leaders who don't have a presence inside Kabul right now. We'll wait to see whether this political track really takes off now.
In the meantime as well, as you've mentioned, the fighting. The Northern Alliance sent in a three-man delegation to Kunduz, which is the Taliban's last stand up in the north of Afghanistan. They sent in that delegation to negotiate a surrender. And they say they've given a three-day ultimatum, after which the Taliban should expect an offensive -- Willow.
BAY: Christiane Amanpour, reporting from Afghanistan. Thanks, Christiane.
Up next, more on the war. This is NEWSNIGHT. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BAY: Secretary of State Colin Powell spoke today at the State Department, saying the international community "cannot wait" to launch a major rebuilding effort in Afghanistan. You only need to look and hear what's going on in refugee camps across that country to understand the urgency.
Those camps have been filling up. The situation for so many refugees is growing more desperate, more dangerous -- especially for those fleeing the few regions still controlled by the Taliban. Nic Robertson, now in one of those areas, the southern border town of Spin Boldak -- Nic.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Willow, we are in Spin Boldak, and it is one of the two main crossing points into Pakistan. But the problems those refugees face in trying to get into Pakistan is that unless they have the proper documentation, they cannot cross the border. And for that reason in this town of Spin Boldak, every day more and more refugees are arriving, unable to get into Pakistan, and essentially having to move into makeshift refugee camps, here in Spin Boldak.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(voice-over): Weighed down by their few precious belongings, Afghanistan's latest displaced trudge into the border town of Spin Boldak. Arriving from deep inside Taliban-controlled Afghanistan, these refugees are stretching relief efforts here to new limits.
Recently donated tents are quickly distributed by officials, concerned about how they will cope with the continuing influx.
WHALID AS SAADOON, SAUDI RED CRESCENT SOCIETY: No, I don't think this is enough, because the refugees, they are coming every day. And they are coming in thousand number, so even -- you are going to bring more and more. This is not enough for them.
ROBERTSON: On the other side of the highway, Taliban officials take journalists to a camp already at capacity, and complain they aren't getting enough help, caring for those they call the victims of the war.
NAJIBULLAH SHEIR ZAI, FOREIGN AFFAIRS SPOKESMAN (through translator): The United Nations is not helping us. The relief agency, Mohammed Bin Rashid, is taking care of and supplying this camp.
ROBERTSON: Indeed, in a United Nations warehouse less than half a mile away, food aid is piled high. The problem, U.N. officials say, is since the Taliban raided their offices, it is no longer safe for them to distribute aid. Most of the anger in the camps, however, is not about starvation, but why they had to flee their homes.
Ullahaddin (ph), like many here, says he was driven out of his home by the bombing. "My children are sick," he says. "Whenever they hear the planes, they lie down." Anger, too, that while they are being bombed, the talk in western capitals is already of rebuilding.
"We don't want dollars," he says. "We don want Afghanis, we don't want dinars. We just want our goal, Islam." In all the chaos, there appears little attention to detail. No one knows for sure how far this camp sprawls, or how many others have sprung up around town.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
Now, in this particular camp, we counted about 1,500 tents, but no one has an accurate fix on just how many people there are in that camp, or any of the other camps in Spin Boldak. What is clear, however, from talking to those people, that if and when the bombing stops, they say they will go back home -- Willow.
BAY: Nic, is there any sense of how we're going to be able to get that aid that is piled up, that you showed us, into those camps?
ROBERTSON: Well, the United Nations has said that if it can operate safely and freely inside Taliban-controlled Afghanistan, then it will do that. But it has had no indication so far that that is possible, although the Taliban in the past have said that it's dangerous for international aid officials to come here.
Indeed, the Taliban have taken over many U.N. facilities, warehouses and offices, taken over their communications equipment, in the past. So these United Nations agencies, the World Food Program, just say that it isn't safe for them. In fact, the local staff have been under a huge amount of pressure in this region in the last few months, and many of them just don't feel it's even safe for them to come to work.
And the World Food Program and other organizations just told their local staff, if you don't feel safe, don't risk your life. Don't come in to work. Stay away. And that's the situation right now. And for right now, at least in Taliban-controlled areas, there's no indication that's going to change -- Willow.
BAY: Nic, is there any reaction inside those camps from the refugees about the $25 million reward being offered by the U.S. government?
ROBERTSON: Most people we talked to here, Willow, said that they hadn't heard about this reward. However, when we explained it to some people, they said, well, that's a massive amount of money by any standards. The average monthly income here is only about $10. And of course, Afghanistan is one of the poorest countries in the world. And they do say to us, that kind of money talks big, and it may make some people, indeed, give away key information on Osama bin Laden's whereabouts. But of course, the problem for so many Afghans here is there are no good communication systems here, so people without satellite telephones or high-powered radio communications equipment, will find it very difficult, even if they could and wanted to, get out timely information, to allow the quick apprehension of Osama bin Laden.
We also talked to local Taliban military commanders here. I asked one commander, would any of his men? And of course, the soldiers here are perhaps the most likely to have an idea of where Osama bin Laden would be. I asked him would any of his men turn over this information on Osama bin Laden for such a large amount of money.
He just laughed at me. For right now, the Taliban say they're still firmly behind Osama bin Laden, and there would be no chance of them shopping him at this time -- Willow.
BAY: Nic Robertson in Spin Boldak, Afghanistan. Stay safe, Nic. Thank you.
More now on how the war is being won, and the human cost of it all. We have two reports, beginning in Mazar-e-Sharif. It's a city from which the Taliban retreated, mostly without a fight. But there was one brutal exception. Six-hundred Taliban, most of them hard-core volunteers from Pakistan -- they stayed and fought. What followed, we're learning, was a bloodbath.
Here's CNN's Alessio Vinci.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALESSIO VINCI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Northern Alliance surrounded the school Friday night, attacking it with machine guns and mortars. Saturday afternoon, U.S. fighter jets struck the school two times. Large portions of the school collapsed. A fire broke out. Hundreds inside were killed.
We arrived three days after the battle ended, to find Red Cross workers still pulling bodies and body parts from the rubble, wearing masks to block the stench of death.
(on camera): According to some eyewitness accounts, the Northern Alliance commanders tried to negotiate with the Pakistani fighters inside the school. They sent some elderly people inside to try to convince the Pakistani fighters to lay down their weapons. But, as those people entered the school from this door, they were shot dead.
(voice-over): A block away from the school, my cameraman and I stumbled upon some Northern Alliance troops guarding a freight container. They opened it up for us, and slowly men began emerging, one by one, some mumbling Islamic prayers. They are Pakistanis who made it out of the school alive. When we came back to see the prisoners today, they had been moved to a nearby room. Some would tell us they had come to Mazar-e Sharif only days before the schoolhouse battle, at the urging of their Islamic religious leaders back home in Pakistan, who told them to go and fight the Americans. Alessio Vinci, CNN, Mazar-e Sharif, Afghanistan. SATINDER BINDRA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Satinder Bindra in Taloqan, northern Afghanistan, where as soon as Northern Alliance tanks rolled into town, the majority of Taliban forces fled. The only fight they offered came from small groups of Taliban. But once flushed out at gun point, after door-to-door searches, the city of Taloqan had new masters.
So where did the thousands of dreaded Taliban fighters flee? They retreated down this road almost 40 miles away into the city of Kunduz, where wave upon wave of U.S. bombers are now striking daily.
About ten days ago Northern Alliance forces drove up this road, thinking they would be welcomed in Kunduz by Taliban commanders who told them they wanted to defect. But as Northern Alliance tanks and troops crossed those hills, they were met with hail of rocket and artillery, forcing them to retreat in disarray.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
BINDRA: Even though it was burned once along this road, the Northern Alliance says it's trying again to cut a surrender deal with the Taliban. So far, a group of hard-core Taliban fighters are resisting, preparing to fight to the finish.
In the meantime, these Northern Alliance forces are content to have the U.S. take the lead. They have been on the front lines so long some actually sleep through the American bombing raids. Satinder Bindra, CNN, on the road to Kunduz.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
BAY: Next on NEWSNIGHT, how the other half lives in Afghanistan. The veil lifts, and the anger is revealed. Coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BAY: Imagine, just over a week ago the women of Afghanistan couldn't walk on the street alone. They couldn't show their faces at all.
Today, some of the women of Kabul did both of the things that would have resulted in a beating at the hands of the Taliban just days ago. They gathered in the streets, saying they wanted to work -- another thing outlawed, and talking about their grim and cloistered life under the Taliban.
The White House has taken up the cause of Afghan women since September 11. Tonight we're talking to some of their advocates from the very beginning, when the Taliban took control in 1996.
In Los Angeles, someone who doesn't exactly need a title, Gloria Steinem. And in Washington, Sima Wali, President of Refugee Women in Development. Wali contacted the leader of the Northern Alliance and Afghanistan's former king about whether they'll support women's rights. They responded in less than 48 hours. Welcome to both of you. GLORIA STEINEM, FEMINIST: Thank you.
BAY: Sima, I would like to start with you. You contacted them, they responded. What was the response?
SIMA WALI, PRESIDENT, REFUGEE WOMEN IN DEVELOPMENT: Well, basically the reason I contacted both the groups and my friend (UNINTELLIGIBLE), my colleague works with me to get the response from both the male political factions, because as somebody who has been very much involved with women on the ground for the past 20 years and also working very hard to bring about the summit of Afghan women in Brussels to be held December 4 and 5 -- and these are Afghan women across the various countries, from inside Afghanistan, from Iran, from Pakistan, from Canada, Europe, all around the world.
These are Afghan women who are human rights activists and they have done phenomenal work in the past many years and have a track record in resisting the forms of oppression that were imposed upon them.
And being involved in this process and hearing what the women were saying, that they are demanding to be at the tables where peace is negotiated and where reconstruction dialogue is being discussed, women are demanding to be a part of this.
So as someone is very concerned about this effort, I'm also hearing about the arguments of cultural relativity within certain circles here in the U.S. And as an Afghan woman I became very concerned and wanted to know where our political leaders stand.
BAY: And where do at the stand, Sima? What was the response you got?
WALI: We basically -- when we got the response in less than 48 hours, and of course the response from Professor Rabbani came during the time when there was active warfare in Afghanistan and it's the time of -- it's also the fasting season -- and the response was that they are both very committed.
Rabbani -- Professor Rabbani has issued assurances to us that he is very respectful of Afghan womens' rights and is willing to defend it in the context of Islamic culture and in the context of Afghan culture.
The former king of Afghanistan has basically reminded us of his stance in the past of granting women rights during his reign and also his assurances for an ongoing commitment to protect and defend Afghan women's rights and to ensure that Afghan women are sitting at the tables and are involved in the highest decision-making levels, where the form of government for Afghanistan is being discussed.
BAY: So Sima, based on those responses, are you confident then, that women in Afghanistan will be represented both in terms of the structure of the company and the government?
WALI: We are trying very hard, and Afghan women that I am talking with -- these are Afghan women from all over the world -- are saying that they demand to be sitting at these tables. We are pushing very hard.
We need the backing of the U.N. and international community. And our American sisters have been very helpful in pushing us in this movement to ensure that Afghan women are involved in the process at the very outset when negotiations are being -- are taking place in Afghanistan.
BAY: Speaking of your American sisters, I would like -- I would like to ask Gloria a question.
Gloria, recently the Bush administration has been very vocal in its support of Afghan women and very vocal in highlighting the problems they face to the American public. Are you confident that the women of Afghanistan are getting the assistance they should be getting from the administration?
GLORIA STEINEM, FEMINIST: No. Because up to now they have been unwilling to even put food and medical aid through women-led groups in Afghanistan, which would have been very helpful.
And even though the rhetoric has gotten better recently, they have not said that women must be part of the reconstruction and of the groups leading to a new government. And when we have pressed them on this, they have said, "Ah, but we must be culturally sensitive."
So what is so interesting about what Sima is saying is that these two leaders -- Islamic leaders are now far ahead of the Bush administration.
BAY: And in fact, Gloria, doesn't that argument hold any weight with you that the Bush administration might not want to appear to be making demands at this very fragile time, as this coalition government is being formed?
STEINEM: Well, it -- what it tells me mainly is they are not listening. It is culturally sensitive to -- to make this position. Because as Sima points out, Afghan women -- this is a restoration of rights. Afghan women had rights before. They were, you know, half of the university students and a third of the physicians and, you know, had political positions.
So I -- it seem a lack of sensitivity, on the contrary, not to know that. And also, if we are -- go forward against racial apartheid, why would we not go forward against gender apartheid?
Even after World War II, General MacArthur, in a culture that was, you know, less supportive of women's rights historically, insisted on the inclusion of women because otherwise it wasn't a democracy. So it seems that 60 years later we could certainly expect our government to do at least that much.
BAY: Gloria Steinem, good to see you have lost none of your fighting spirit. And Sima Wali, we wish you the best with your efforts in Afghanistan. Thank you ladies both for joining us tonight. WALI: Thank you.
BAY: NEWSNIGHT will be back right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BAY: A year ago, tonight's story would be the millions of Americans getting ready to fly somewhere for Thanksgiving, and hating it. We'd be talking about delays and overcrowding, and how air travel isn't what it used to be.
Instead tonight, the story is all the people not flying this week, about fearful passengers and airlines on the edge of bankruptcy. The delays are still there, but they're at security checkpoints now. And as for the experience, it still isn't what it used to be. Here's CNN's Garrick Utley.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
FRANK SINATRA: (SINGING) Come on fly with me, we will fly, we'll fly away...
GARRICK UTLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It was a time when flying was as fun and romantic as a Sinatra song or a Hollywood movie. A time when the Boeing 707 opened a new door to the world: jet age travel with no security checks and little air sickness when you flew so high and fast.
A statement for that new age was the TWA terminal at New York's Kennedy Airport that opened in 1962. The architect, Eero Saarinen, curved the roof into wings of flight. It was a vision for the future, an air terminal as the accommodating, spacious crossroads of the world.
But what has happened to this terminal is part of the story of what's happened to air travel. That vision of the fun of flying, the comfort of flying yet, and yes, even the romance of flying. Where did it go?
Much, of course, was lost in the hassle of getting here to there, the crowds, the increased security in this age of insecurity.
True, the training of new sky marshals should ease passenger anxiety, but this is not exactly the future we had hoped for. If flying is less fun, it is no fun running an airline today. Passenger traffic is down 25 percent since September 11. Major airlines have cut their flights, laid off tens of thousands of employees and are losing up to $15 million a day.
JULIAN MALDITES, AIRLINE ANALYST: The situation is much more acute now, because the airlines have lost that very most important traveler, namely the business traveler who provided maybe 65 percent of the revenues.
UTLEY: Right now there is good news for those who want to fly: airlines are slashing fairs. New York to Chicago round trip on American is little more than the taxi fare is to and from each airport. You can fly New York to Los Angles round trip on United for $287. For five dollars more, you can fly to London round trip on U.S. Air. Is this going to last?
Air travel has moved from the age of true pioneering adventure through flying as pleasure to whatever you want to call the experience today.
The airlines call it surviving in a brutal market place. The new vision is for more delays for increased security and more layoffs at airlines that are losing financial altitudes. More sandwiches served for your in-flight meals and no more caviar in first class.
And what about the fun? The adventure of flying?
They have gone the way of some grand names in aviation: Pan Am and TWA, which will disappear December 2. Its terminal at JFK is now a relic, closed and empty. Is wings no longer soar. Garrick Utley, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
BAY: Up next, tomorrow's news tonight. What you might see on your doorstep. The front page in Florida and Wyoming. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BAY: Now we want to take a look at what the press outside New York and Washington is covering tonight. In Fort Lauderdale, Florida, Irv Harrell, night city editor at the "South Florida Sun-Sentinel," and in Cheyenne, Wyoming, D. Reed Eckhardt, managing editor of "the Wyoming Tribune-Eagle." Gentlemen, welcome.
IRV HARRELL, "SOUTH FLORIDA SUN-SENTINEL:" Good evening.
D. REED ECKHARDT, EDITOR, "WYOMING TRIBUNE-EAGLE:" Good evening.
BAY: Why don't I start with you. What is your lead story for tomorrow?
HARRELL: Are you starting with me?
BAY: Yep.
HARRELL: OK. Our lead story deals with 30 Cuban migrants who took a -- a boat trip here from Cuba on Friday night and they went missing.
After a two-day, 24-hour, you know, around-the-clock search by the Coast Guard, they found the remains of a boat off the coast of Key West which they believe may hold the 30 -- may have held the 30 Cubans that headed this way.
BAY: And... HARRELL: We have got some comments from some some of the family members over here as well. And it's backing up to be one of the worst tragedies with migrants coming to Florida ever.
BAY: Mr. Eckhardt, what about you? What is your lead story?
ECKHARDT: Well, our lead story tomorrow is the war, of course. I think all of our readers are looking at that as a local story.
Along local lines we've got a story about a new food-code policy here in Cheyenne. We've been recovering the food and restaurant issue here for about two and a half years.
And also we've got a story about Wyoming's children scoring well on the National Science Test. At least, they scored well in the nation, although they only had about 33 percent proficiency.
BAY: Now tell me a little more about that food story.
ECKHARDT: Well, sure. Our restaurants -- what did I tell you, about two and a half years ago we began asking questions about how restaurants were inspected, were they being inspected properly and on time.
We did a very large computer-generated piece and discovered they were well behind in their pace when they are inspected restaurants, and restaurants that were not doing well and continued not to do well. And so over time the laws have slowly been changed. They may (UNINTELLIGIBLE) in a meeting today that will categorize restaurants by their level of risk and then inspect them more often for a higher risk.
BAY: Now, on balance, how has you coverage changed since the events of September 11?
ECKHARDT: Are you talking to me first?
BAY: Go ahead.
ECKHARDT: I think, for us, what it has done is help us to realize that there's sort of a bigger world around us. I have always said that local stories were local to whatever the audience thought was important at the time, but I think this really hit home, these stories that occur in Afghanistan or in New York City, Washington, D.C. actually have local impact here in Wyoming, and that's sort of changed the way we mix our news up every day.
BAY: But what is the local impact in Wyoming? Because from where we sit, we figure you all out there are are so far removed from all of this.
ECKHARDT: Well, I think part of it is the fear, of course. Anthrax the last time I heard had gotten as far as Kansas City. The worry of course is when is it going to get to Cheyenne, and if it is -- and of course there's the fear, the feature you just did before this one about air flights. We know that the air flights are down here. People are worrying about are they safe. Can they -- can they get on a plane in Cheyenne and travel to Denver and then on to -- to their home for Thanksgiving? So the impacts are very real.
And of course, the fact that it actually happened in our front yard -- yes, New York city is 2,000 miles away from Cheyenne, but it's still basically in our homeland.
BAY: And Irv, I'm curious about the -- these developments in the anthrax story. How much coverage will you give that, particularly since your state was really on the front line of this outbreak?
HARRELL: I think we will continue to cover this as -- as vigorously as we have been. When we had the -- the incident at the VMI Building in Palm Beach, we were very aggressive in our coverage there. We were -- we were there around the clock to provide as much information as we could to our readers.
And I think it's still a concern for us. I think that the threat of anthrax here, there's constant threat there. Our hazmat crews are working day in and day out with chasing leads. And we never just know what's going to happen next with that.
BAY: Gentlemen, we know you are busy. We're going to let you get back to work and make sure no papers are late tomorrow morning. Thank you both for joining us.
HARRELL: You're very welcome.
ECKHARDT: Thanks for the opportunity.
BAY: Coming up, one place that feels very safe after September 11: the kitchen. Next on NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BAY: We got a very perceptive e-mail for a viewer today. Andrew Lilly of Grapevine, Texas, pointed us -- pointed out to us that stress spelled backward is dessert. He's right about that. He's right about the implication as a nation. We have certainly been stressed, and we have been reaching for desserts. And not just desserts, but also the fat-filled, '50s-era delights that got a glossed-up name over the past decade: comfort food. Here is CNN's Beth Nissen.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
BETH NISSEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Since September 11, stress has been eating away at people. And they've been eating away at stress, eating a broad and broadening range of comfort food.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You've got your home fries, you've got your french fries, mashed potatoes and scalloped potatoes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Donuts, chocolate.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Macaroni and cheese, meatloaf, mashed potatoes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Grits or home fries or toast.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pizza.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mostly fried chicken.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And pies. Pies, pies, pies.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mostly sweet stuff. You know, I think that's more comforting than anything.
NISSEN: Carrie Levin, chef and owner of the Manhattan restaurant aptly named "Good Enough to Eat," says her top sellers since September 11 have been meat loaf with mashed potatoes and macaroni and cheese, childhood favorites.
CARRIE LEVIN, CHEF: Whatever their family cooked, that's what they want to eat. You just want what you had, what is familiar, when there was -- everything was happy.
NISSEN: Many have found it helps to not only eat comfort food, but make it, bake it. Cakes, brownies, cookies, pies. Within two weeks of September 11, grocery stores nationwide reported a 20 to 25 percent increase in sales of chocolate chips, pie crust, cake mixes, weeks before the start of the traditional holiday baking season.
PEGGY KATALINICH, FOOD EDITOR, "FAMILY CIRCLE" MAGAZINE: In so many ways it feels out of control right now, unsettled. But you can come in the kitchen and you can cook. And cooking has a beginning, a middle and an end. You control the end product, how it turns out.
MICHELLE WEBER, BAKER: Since the -- the whole tragedy, all people want to do is do something. So if they can -- if their family comes home after a hard day of hearing all this nasty stuff, "Look, I made a pie." It makes them feel better.
NISSEN: At least until they realize, in only a few weeks, they've put on more than a few pounds. That's happened to weight watchers nationwide.
As we know, when you're in a stressful space, what do you want to do? Reach out and go to the comfort stuff.
ELLEN FUHRER, WEIGHT WATCHERS GROUP LEADER: Right after September 11, every single member of mine had a story, and every single one of them had an eating issue. Especially when something like this happens, you think, well, I might as well just go ahead and eat because if I'm going to die tomorrow, I want to have a smile on my face.
NISSEN: Yet even as the nation enters the traditional season of feasting, some who have found comfort in food are starting to say no to the second helping of chicken pot pie, the third slice of apple pie -- are starting to rethink their eating. FUHRER: What, if I eat more calories than I need, is that going to rebuild the World Trade Center? No. Is it going to bring the lives back? No. But maybe I can reestablish some self-esteem and start carrying myself through over the next hurdle, because there's bound to be one.
NISSEN: The idea: use food to feel better physically instead of just emotionally; eat to build strength and resistance. There can be some comfort in that, too. Beth Nissen, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
BAY: That's NEWSNIGHT for tonight. Thanks for joining us. I'm Willow Bay. Aaron Brown returns tomorrow night. Good night, everyone.
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