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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown
Israel Bombs Palestinians; Homeland Security Issues New Warning; Taliban's American Fighter In Custody; Noose Tightens in Afghanistan; Gyroscopic Scooter Unveiled
Aired December 03, 2001 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again, everyone. This was a nice way to start a week, wasn't it?
Terror in the Middle East, with the suicide bombers, had a deadly weekend. And those who live among them got a visit from the Israeli military today.
In Washington, another terrorism warning. And in Afghanistan, mindboggling though it may be, an American is captured fighting for the Taliban.
It was also the kind of day an inventor could take the wraps off a fancy motor scooter and have normally serious people ask, "will this change the world?" Trust me. It won't. Not yet. It will take more than a gadget to change the world.
Walking isn't about to become passe. Neither, unfortunately is fighting or dying, nor worrying about what comes next. Because on this sunny autumn Monday full of wonder and promise, that's right where we are -- yet again.
The president's chief of homeland security issuing another warning today. "Be on the alert," he said. But again, frustration for anyone looking for anything more specific than that.
In the Middle East, Israeli retaliation for a weekend of terror. This time instead of cautioning Israel against overreacting, the White House says, "we understand." And in Afghanistan, U.S. Marines hunkered down in the dust. They say they're ready for whatever comes next, even though they can barely make out the horizon ahead of them.
We'll look at the life of Johnny Walker today -- sweet, unassuming, frail. His mom expected him to be a doctor. He chosen instead to be a soldier -- a Taliban soldier. We'll look at why he chose the life that culminated in the battle inside an Afghan prison -- a battle that cost another American young man his life.
We begin as always with a whip around the world and a quick headline from our correspondents who cover it. First, the security alert. To the White House, senior White House correspondent, John King. John, the headline, please. JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, the White House warning the American people and law enforcement agencies across the country that they must, in the White House view, stay on the highest stay of alert throughout the holiday season. The administration saying, in the past 72 hours, it has picked up a significantly higher level of intelligence information suggesting the strong possibility of more terrorist strikes here in the United States.
The administration sources telling us the overwhelming majority of that information can be traced back to Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda network. No specific information as to when or where an attack might come. But the administration says it believes this information to be credible. So yet again, an alert to the American people.
BROWN: John, thank you. Back with you in a moment. To Israel now, and the military operations that have been going on all night. Jerrold Kessel is in Jerusalem. The headline, please.
JERROLD KESSEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, war talk, talk of war -- the beginning of strong military action by Israel in the wake of a series of suicide bombings, including the destruction of Yasser Arafat's helicopters, the destruction of the runway of Gaza's international airport.
And this culminating now in the very strong and dramatic statement by the Israeli government, at the end of a marathon session this evening, in which it declares Yasser Arafat's Palestinian Authority an entity that supports terror. And the Israeli government promising it will continue strong actions, step up those actions against the Palestinian Authority, until, in its words, it begins to root out and roots out its terror base -- Aaron.
BROWN: Back to you in a bit as well.
And now to Afghanistan. CNN's Nic Robertson is on the border tonight. Nic, a headline from you, please.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, increasing pressure on Kandahar. Our sources there tell us that people in the city now increasingly afraid it will soon come under direct attack. They say the airport just outside the city, anti-Taliban forces taking control of parts of that. Also, two key villages north of the city, now fallen to anti-Taliban forces. In an allied bombing raid, two key bridges taken out around Kandahar, helping isolate the city -- Aaron.
BROWN: Nic, back with you. Back with all of you shortly.
We begin with the warning. There is talk among al Qaeda of another attack on U.S. interests. Nothing more specific than that, but enough talk to issue a warning -- the third such warning since September 11th. And the hope is, of course, that the third time is not the charm.
Again, the Bush administration finds itself in an awkward spot: Issue the warning and take the heat for the lack of specifics, or fail to issue the warning and face an onslaught of criticism if something does happen. It may be that there is no right answer here, Just a strong and understandable desire, on the part of the administration, not to do the wrong thing.
Once again, senior White House correspondent, John King at the White House. John, good evening to you.
KING: Good evening to you, Aaron. The president's point man on domestic terrorism, the homeland security director Tom Ridge, essentially conceding that point today. He says this is an art, not a science, when the government considers when should it view this information from intelligence sources as credible enough to pass on a vague threat like this one to the American people -- a difficult decision on any day. A more difficult decision, given the season, with the holidays approaching.
But, Governor Ridge going before the American people today and saying that he wanted everyone to be on alert this holiday season because, he said, of a significant increase in intelligence traffic in the past 72 hours suggesting the possibility of a domestic strike here in the United States. Other sources telling us this information can be traced back to Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda network.
So you had the president's point man in the briefing room telling all Americans, once again, to be vigilant.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOM RIDGE, HOMELAND SECURITY DIRECTOR: The sources, in terms of the geography, are no different than anything that we've received in the past. But -- I mean the origin. But the sources are more credible and the decibel level is higher, as they talk about potential attacks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Because of this decision, a new alert put out by the FBI to 18,000 law enforcement agencies across the country. Governor Ridge convened a conference call with his former colleagues, the 50 nation's governors, urging them to put all state law enforcement officials on high alert, to look out for major transportation centers, ports, and the like, as well.
And we are also told by intelligence sources that they view the threat as especially high, as the Muslim holy period of Ramadan winds down and as the key Christian and Jewish holiday season approaches.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RIDGE: We don't believe there should be, nor there will be, any change in anybody's plans to participate in their religious holidays, and to enjoy the seasons and their families. But again, the convergence of information suggests, ladies and gentlemen of America, we're at war. Be on alert.
(END VIDEO CLIP) KING: This is the third warning from the administration since the September 11th attacks. U.S. officials telling us they have no greater information this time than they have in the past. But they say the dramatic increase in the past 48 to 72 hours, in suggestions there could be attacks, led them to make this decision.
Governor Ridge also says there was another factor in his decision to want very much to go public with this. He thinks now, as it approaches the three-month anniversary of the September 11th attacks, that more and more Americans might be getting complacent. He says that cannot be the case -- Aaron.
BROWN: John, that cuts both ways. Are they at all concerned about a sort of boy-who-cries-wolf syndrome setting in with each terror alert where nothing happens?
KING: They are concerned about that. But again, they say if they don't say anything, if they don't tell the governors to reinforce the state police, if they don't get out to local sheriffs all across the country, people doing border control, that they believe they have this new credible information -- and then if something happens, they will be in a much worse position trying to defend that decision, than they will be in telling the American people: "We can't tell you where, we can't tell you when, but we think there's a serious threat. Please be ready."
BROWN: John, thank you. Senior White House correspondent John King.
Coming up in a little while in the program, we'll talk with the police commissioner of Philadelphia, Jon Timony, about how his city, and by extension, larger cities, are dealing with these non-specific warnings. That's coming up in a little bit.
We'll go on to Israel first. In the days after September 11th, mixed in with the horror and the sympathy, many Israelis felt a kind of relief. If nothing else, they said, Americans now understand what it means to fight terror and to live with terror. And while there was plenty of truth in that, the United States government did always urge the Israelis to be restrained, urged them to pull troops out of Palestinian cities.
Well, that changed today after the weekend bombings that saw 25 Israelis killed. Twenty-five out of about 6 million. That's roughly the same as 1,200 casualties, if it happened in the United States. The U.S. seemed to say, "do what you have to do." And Israel is.
Back to Jerrold Kessel, who joins us again from Jerusalem. Good evening to you.
KESSEL: Hello, Aaron.
Not only doing what it believes it has to do, but taking stands which it thinks it needs to take. And that's a very strong stand taken this evening by the Israeli government and Ariel Sharon. The government, the broad national unity government and Mr. Sharon, met for nearly six hours and then came out with a very, very strong and dramatic statement, in which the government of Mr. Sharon labels the Palestinian Authority of Yasser Arafat -- "an entity that supports terror."
Now, of course that could have dramatic repercussions on the way Israel relates to and continues perhaps military actions and pressure against Mr. Arafat's authority. And already, the Israelis have begun some kind of military operations in that direction. They promise more in this statement, until, they say, the Palestinian Authority roots out what the Israel statement calls its terror base.
Not without opposition, the Labor Party, the Labor ministers and on the left of this government, didn't vote for this vote. But it is now the Israeli official policy. And it is a culmination of an escalating situation.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(voice-over): A day when the Middle East conflict took a distinct turn. A day when talk of war became the common currency.
ARIEL SHARON, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): This will not be an easy war. This war will not be a short war. But we shall win.
SAEB ERAKAT, CHIEF PALESTINIAN NEGOTIATOR: He's saying, "war, war, war now. Peace later." I think he is making the mistake of his life.
KESSEL: On the spot where two Palestinian suicide bombers killed 10 young Israelis, tears and prayers, and fear of more bombers in their cities. Filing in to pay their tribute, ambassadors posted to Israel. Israelis now feeling that after the series of devastating suicide bombings, the world would understand a strike at the Palestinian Authority.
SHARON (through translator): But recently, a significant change has occurred. There is more understanding for our position. And the real Arafat is showing himself.
KESSEL: And just before the prime minister spoke, the Israeli military had spoken. Yasser Arafat's helicopters, a symbol of his authority and of his strategic mobility, targeted, along with one of his headquarters on the West Bank. Israel said it was acting because Arafat was not.
SHARON (through translator): We know who is responsible. Arafat is responsible for everything that is happening here.
KESSEL: Yasser Arafat was not in the attacked buildings. He was meeting elsewhere with a European peace mediator. But he described the Israeli strike as a humiliation for Palestinians.
Pointing to scenes like this, Arafat insists his police have taken action, arresting more than 100 members of Hamas and Islamic jihad. This time his security chief says they will remain in jail. COL. JIBRIL RIJOUB, PALESTINIAN PREVENTIVE SECURITY CHIEF: No more revolving doors. No more jokes. The situation is difficult. We are acting for the sake of our people's interest.
KESSEL: Mr. Sharon is seeking to draw a parallel between Israel's battles against Palestinian militants and the U.S. global war on terror. An echo of that on the Israeli street, where one placard depicted Arafat and Osama bin Laden as the same.
When Israel's defense minister went to visit those wounded in the suicide attacks, a confrontation with a man whose brother was among the wounded.
"Arafat has become irrelevant," he says. "Can't you see? He can't stop the terror. That's why you should get rid of him."
Benjamin Ben-Eliezer's response: "The moment I think getting rid of him will stop the terror, it will be another matter."
And whether, Aaron, Israel continues to edge in that direction or not, increasingly both Yasser Arafat and Ariel Sharon see themselves in a battle for survival. And that, in part, could explain this new talk of war -- Aaron.
BROWN: Jerrold, thank you very much, in Jerusalem tonight. It is a nasty situation there. We're joined by Alon Pinkas, the longtime diplomat, veteran of the peace process, which all seems a long time ago. He's currently Israel's counsel general in the United States.
It's nice to see you again.
Nice to see you. Good evening, Aaron.
BROWN: I'm sorry the circumstances are as they are.
As we are watching the peace, and the Palestinian was talking about "no more revolving doors, and this time we're serious," you were literally muttering, just barely under your breath. You obviously don't believe him.
AMB. ALON PINKAS, ISRAELI CONSUL GENERAL: This particular gentlemen, I happen to believe. I just don't think he carries the weight to make this a serious onslaught and clamp down on the terrorist. He said, "this time no revolving door, and this time no jokes" -- which would lead a logical viewer or listener to think that in the past, he's admitting that it was a revolving door. And that there were instances where it was a joke.
We have signed eight different cease-fire agreements, Aaron, with Arafat and the Palestinian Authority. And there's very little tangible proof, or documented support, or anything that is solid, to lead us to believe that the ninth time is going to be serious.
BROWN: Let me -- a couple things I want to throw around here. Obviously what happened over the weekend was awful, in the string of awful events that have plagued Israel and the region for a long time. What changed over the weekend?
PINKAS: I'll tell you what changed. We have had enough. There's a point of maturation to every process, to every fruit, to everything in life. We have been bleeding for 53 years. We have been under a permanent state of war for 53 years.
This is absolutely, comprehensively, and deeply abnormal, to sustain a society, especially a democratic and open society, under these kind of conditions. And there comes a point when you trust the people you negotiate with, when you negotiate in good faith with interlocutors, whom you have to trust, who have credibility. We have lost any trust. We have lost any belief in their credibility.
And this is not just true for the last two, three, four years. This is especially true in the last year, since Camp David.
BROWN: When the government -- and I've heard you say this tonight as well -- when the government says Arafat is to blame, do you mean that literally, that he is to blame for these events? Or that he has not done all he could do to stop them?
PINKAS: He has done nothing to stop them. He has done nothing to stop them physically. He has done nothing to stop them, in terms of exercising power and expressing sovereignty and authority, which he claims to have, which he wants to have, in the form of a Palestinian state.
BROWN: Maybe he doesn't have it.
PINKAS: Well, that's -- you know what? It's a good question, because we need to know if he has it. It's an open question, because we don't know if he has it. And it's an unimportant question, because if he has it and is unwilling to use it, then we can't discuss with this gentleman, anything and everything, ever again. And if he doesn't have it, then we can't.
BROWN: And if he doesn't have it -- I don't mean to beat what you've just described as an unimportant question to death, here, but if he doesn't have it, who does Israel talk to if Israel is interested in talking to anyone?
PINKAS: We are interested, and that's the big dilemma that we're facing. On the one hand, we have 3.2 million Palestinians that we'd like to disengage from, that we'd like to separate from, that we'd like to draw a line between us and them -- a line dividing a democracy and a dictatorship, an open society and a closed society. A society that has human rights, women rights and civil rights, and a society that doesn't.
And on the other hand, we have no one to discuss this separation/ disengagement with. It's a major, major problem. Now, this is not just someone we dislike. This is not just someone we have political differences, profound as they may be. This is someone that we have to live with, this Palestinian Authority, and this Arafat.
And it is a problem. And we can't elect their leaders for them. Apparently, they can't elect them either. And they can't -- they cannot de-elect their leaders, either.
BROWN: There are so many other things, and unfortunately I think there are probably going to be so many other occasions to talk about them. It's nice to see you again.
PINKAS: Nice to see you.
BROWN: Appreciate you coming in.
PINKAS: Thank you, Aaron.
BROWN: Thank you.
In a moment, a visit with the Marines at Camp Rhino. Just watch out for the blowing sand there. We'll go to Afghanistan. This is NEWSNIGHT, on Monday.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: In Afghanistan, the noose continues to tighten on two parts of the country where the Taliban leadership and Osama bin Laden are believed to be in hiding. U.S. airstrikes today continued around Kandahar, the last stronghold for the Taliban militia. And B-52s unloaded on the Tora Bora region, a suspected sanctuary of Osama bin Laden, the fourth day of those attacks.
CNN's Nic Robertson is in Chaman, Pakistan, right across the border. And Nic joins us again. Nic, in your case, good morning.
ROBERTSON: Good morning, Aaron.
About 70 miles here to Kandahar city. Our sources in the city there tell us 24 hours of intense bombardment. Interestingly, they tell us that two key bridges have been taken out by bombing raids, one just north of the city and one just southeast of the city. They say this essentially isolates the city of Kandahar, leaving only one main road in and out of the city.
They also say that the bombing has been very intense around Kandahar city airport, just outside of Kandahar. They say that villagers around the airport say that they have heard artillery and gunfire exchanges. And those villagers say they believe anti-Taliban forces have taken some territory of the airport.
Now, this is difficult to confirm. But anti-Taliban commanders on the ground we spoke to by satellite telephone a little over 24 hours ago, told us that they were about to launch an offensive on the airport. Our sources also say that the situation inside Kandahar is very tense.
The people there are really now beginning to fear that the city may soon be attacked. And our sources also say that two villages north of Kandahar have now been taken over by anti-Taliban forces. Now, here, when we speak of anti-Taliban forces, we mean those Pashtun tribal fighters led by various leaders. One of those leaders of one of those tribal groups, we understand, is north of Kandahar, is Hamid Karzai. His name has just emerged from the talks in Bonn as a possible head of the new interim government. And a little closer to where we stand now, just a few miles away in Spin Boldak, the Taliban local official there, not a military man, a local official, says that he believes they are now beginning to lose support in the town for the local townspeople.
He in fact said that he was going to leave Spin Boldak himself and head north in Afghanistan, to his hometown -- Aaron.
BROWN: Nic, on the subject of people leaving, what are you seeing or hearing about refugees leaving the country?
ROBERTSON: Well, as every phase of the bombing campaign has gone on over Afghanistan, the last few months has tended, where it's been at its most intense, to drive people out from that region. And again, we've seen the same situation here at the border, people leaving the Kandahar region.
They tell us they're trying to escape the bombing. But all the international aid workers we talked to here don't talk about a massive influx. If we remember back to the beginning of the air campaign two months ago, there was a lot of concern that millions of refugees would flood out of the country, many headed towards Pakistan. That hasn't happened.
What they are seeing at the border here is perhaps a doubling of the number of refugees getting into Pakistan. They say it's up from about 300 families a day to about 600 families a day -- a lot of those people crossing into Pakistan illegally. And certainly, the people coming say that they are trying to escape the bombing, that they're unsure about their futures.
But interestingly, aid officials telling us they are beginning to see a drift back, small numbers, in the opposite direction. Those people, they say, are headed back to the north of Afghanistan to the cities there, where the fighting now appears to be over -- offering a little hope, Aaron, that perhaps if the bombing does stop, then people will actually go back home.
BROWN: Nic, thanks. Nic Robertson, on the Afghan-Pakistani border tonight for us. Thank you.
We're starting to get a look, by the way, at what the U.S. Marine contingent. You'll recall a group of Marines is now based outside of Kandahar. And we have a picture, a word picture, albeit, of what they're living through and planning. They call the place Camp Rhino. CNN's Walt Rodgers has been allowed in by the military as the pool reporter.
And Walt joins us on the phone now. Walt, good morning to you. What can you report?
WALT RODGERS, CAMP RHINO, AFGHANISTAN: Hello, Aaron. As dawn broke over this U.S. Marine base in the Afghan desert, we could watch U.S. Navy planes overhead refueling after their strikes in the Kandahar area just over the horizon. In the last half-hour, I watched a B-52 also headed in that same direction on a bombing run.
The Marine armored reconnaissance patrols were out again in the desert overnight. Having been here more than a week, though, this battalion-sized Marine unit still does not know if it will be committed to a battle, a siege at Kandahar. Some Afghan opposition forces are reportedly engaged in fighting at the airport south of Kandahar.
Not clear, however, is whether the decision has been made yet to commit U.S. Marine units to the upcoming fight for Kandahar, or whether the struggle for the city will be left entirely to Afghan opposition groups now flanking the city from the north and south.
Meanwhile, at this base in the Afghan desert, many U.S. Marines spent a frigid night out in their fighting holes, their foxholes on the perimeter of the base. There, the enemy is cold, bitter, winter cold nights in the desert. In the fighting holes, the Marines existence is extraordinarily basic. Their only water is what they carry in their canteens.
For more than a week, they've been eating out of food packets called MREs -- meals ready to eat. Certainly an improvement over World War II C rations, but still something far short of a truly hot meal. Mostly, MREs are large packages of calories and carbohydrates.
If by night, the Marine's enemy is cold, by day it's the fiercely blowing sandstorms which envelope them, reducing visibility, sometimes to a few meters. Sandstorms require the Marines to clean weapons and radio equipment, two and three times a day. No one ever feels quite clean here. Everything is coated in a thick film of dusty grit.
Perhaps the best part of the day for Marines may simply be brushing their teeth. Still, these men did not join the Marines to be comfortable. Many came to fight, and they simply do not know at this point if they're going to get that chance -- Aaron.
BROWN: Walt, we have about 30 seconds or so here, and I want to be careful what I ask. And I know you need to be careful how you respond. Are these guys itching for a fight, or are they happy, sort of, to be in support right now?
RODGERS: I think they're more than itching for a fight. Young men joined the Marines to test themselves, to test themselves in battle. I spoke with an officer yesterday and he said, "Every one of these Marines would fight to stay here at this base, to participate in this upcoming campaign, to the extent that they're permitted to by the Pentagon." And he said for every Marine that's here on this base, he also said that there are hundreds of other Marines standing offshore on ships who would kill just to trade places with these guys who are here.
So the morale is very high. And I think these -- the ones I have spoken with would love to see a fight -- Aaron.
BROWN: Walt, be safe. And, to the young Marines there, we hope they're safe as well. And thank you for your work on behalf of the pool. Walt Rodgers of CNN, the pool reporter at the Marine base outside of Kandahar.
Over the last couple of weeks we have seen hundreds of Taliban fighters captured in Afghanistan. There's been a certain sameness in their appearance -- the dark turbans, the long beards, often covered with the filth of war. So it's a bit of a shock when this weekend we discovered that beneath the beard and the dirt of battle on one Taliban fighter, was a 20-year-old American.
John Walker, described by his mother as a sweet, shy kid, survived the Mazar-e Sharif uprising at the prison with a bullet wound in his leg. How exactly he got to Afghanistan, how he ended up as a Taliban soldier, and what his fate now will be, are questions now on the table tonight. The last one will remain unanswered for a while.
With more on the first two, CNN's Rusty Dornin.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Half starved, barely able to walk, and very likely a prisoner of war in Afghanistan. Rescued from the ruins of a prison riot, how did 20-year-old American John Walker get to be a Taliban fighter? How did he get there from here, Marin County, California -- a liberal area north of San Francisco, where residents would be more likely to bear Birkenstocks than bear arms?
His father was shocked to see his son, and frightened for him.
FRANK LINDH, FATHER: I have to say, I'm doing my best to remain composed. But we are all very, very upset with what John went through in this prison. It really defies description. And to think that our son -- he's really not much more than a boy -- that he went through this horrible experience in the prison, and who knows what, leading up to that.
DORNIN: Family friend Bill Jones says when Walker became interested in the Muslim religion at a young age, his parents supported him.
BILL JONES, FAMILY FRIEND: So Marilyn, the mother, although she was raised a Catholic, she opened up his world to Buddhism and the American Indian religions -- anything that he might be interested in. And he just took off on the Muslim thing.
DORNIN: A highly motivated student, Walker went to an alternative high school. He graduated at 16.
KAREN BRESLAU, "NEWSWEEK" REPORTER: A year later when he was 17, he went to Yemen, to study the Arabic language, and was apparently quite gifted at it and spent about a year there. Returned home, became active with a Pakistani humanitarian group which operates out of a San Francisco area mosque.
DORNIN: It was after his second trip to Yemen that his parents began to understand that their son's spiritual quest had taken a different turn.
FRANK LINDH, FATHER: I was upset and I was concerned about the fact that these young Americans who were killed on the Cole were the same age as John. And we -- we just had a little father-son debate, much like my dad and I used to have over the Vietnam War, frankly.
DORNIN: Somewhere along the journey, John Walker changed his name and became Abdul Hamid. Then he went to Pakistan.
JON WALKER, AMERICAN TALIBAN FIGHTER: I decided to read some of the literature of the scholars and the history of the movement and my heart became attached to them.
DORNIN: He went to Afghanistan and joined the Taliban. There he was sent to Arabic-speaking training camps run by Osama Bin Laden. He told interviewers he saw Bin Laden many times. Then the war began, and Walker was on the run.
WALKER: When we withdrew from Tahar, we walked by foot, maybe more than 100 miles. Afterwards I was very sick for the whole period.
DORNIN: In Mazar-e Sharif, he became part of the Taliban prison rebellion. His parents had not heard from him in seven months until they saw these pictures Sunday.
LINDH: We want to give him a big hug. I also want to give him maybe a little kick in the butt for not telling me what he was up to and for not getting my permission, because I would not have given him permission to go to Afghanistan.
DORNIN: What happens to John Walker now?
REAR ADMIRAL JOHN STUFFLEBEEM, PENTAGON SPOKESMAN: U.S. forces have control of him. I wouldn't assume or make a judgment about, you know, how to qualify that in terms of arrest, POW. I would just -- I can't go there.
DORNIN: But go there they will, as they unscramble the tale of a Taliban fighter a long way from home. Rusty Dornin, CNN, Fairfax, California.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: It's hard to imagine. When we come back, we'll talk with the police commissioner of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania about how his city is dealing with this latest terror alert. This is NEWSNIGHT. We'll be back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Let's spend a little more time tonight dealing with the security warning that came out of the White House late this afternoon. It is a very difficult thing for local law enforcement, already spread quite thin in these days after 9-11.
We are joined by John Timoney, the Commissioner of the Philadelphia Police Department. He joined us tonight from Philadelphia. It's nice to see you, sir.
JOHN TIMONEY, PHILADELPHIA POLICE COMMISSIONER: Good evening, Aaron.
BROWN: Realistically, is there anything you weren't doing last night that you are doing today after the warnings?
TIMONEY: No. We take it up another level. I view the warnings actually as somewhat of a blessing.
You know, this is the third one. We have been on a high state of alert since September 11th. But the truth be known, quickly boredom sets in for a lot of these officers that are on, you know, signature buildings at fixed locations, transportation hubs.
And so every once in a while these -- these warnings kind of remind us not to become complacent. And so while they may be a pain in the neck and some people may object to them, I don't object. I think -- you know, I was expecting something like this with -- with the holidays coming in, Ramadan followed by Christmas and -- and some Jewish holidays. It was to be expected.
BROWN: What about the reverse of that for the officers and for the people in Philadelphia as well, which is that you issue a warning, nothing happens? You issue another one, nothing happens. And people stop hearing it.
TIMONEY: Well, I think it's -- I spent the whole weekend watching CNN and what -- what what happened in Israel. And in case anybody wants to get complacent, look to Israel and you can see what happen with, again, suicide bombers. I think it would really be dumb to become complacent.
BROWN: City like Philadelphia is an interesting one. It's a big city. You've got American landmarks, classic American landmarks there. Gives us a sense of the kinds of things you pay special attention to right now.
TIMONEY: Well, clearly, when -- when these terrorists strike they are going to do two things.
One, where there's a high concentration of civilian and vehicular traffic. And then two, some kind of signature or symbolic buildings. Clearly, the Liberty Bell, Constitutional Hall, the U.S. Mint, a variety of transportation hubs, a variety of tall buildings.
So there are enough targets, if you will, for any terrorist looking to make a statement and looking to get high civilian casualties, particularly on the East Coast; Boston, New York, Washington and Philadelphia. You have those type of buildings.
BROWN: I -- I'm almost reluctant to ask this. Maybe I shouldn't. Let me try it, I guess. So in the end, if someone is determined to kill themself and take a lot of people out in the process...
TIMONEY: Right.
BROWN: Absent intelligence that says John Doe is about to do this, is there anything really you can do?
TIMONEY: Well, I -- I wouldn't underestimate -- I really underestimate the -- the ability of a strong uniformed presence that looks like it's pretty -- being pretty proactive as being a deterrent.
But when you do get to a suicide bomber, you are probably correct. And the one way we know for a fact that will stop this is through good intelligence. And so I think that -- that really has to be our first and foremost aim.
BROWN: And about a half a minute left, sir.
TIMONEY: Yes.
BROWN: Traditionally, there's always been some friction between the FBI and local police departments. I know you are familiar with that from your days here in New York.
TIMONEY: Sure.
BROWN: Has that changed in the post-9-11 period?
TIMONEY: I think so. I have had two private meetings with the new FBI director, Mueller. He's a serious man. He knows there are issues are here that have to be addressed. And I can see a vast improvement over the last month, particularly having had meetings with him.
You know, there are these traditional institutional obstacles to communication, but he -- he's gone a long way in reducing them.
BROWN: Commissioner, it's nice to see you. I always want to call you chief. I assume you'll answer to either one.
TIMONEY: Thank you very much, Aaron.
BROWN: If we don't talk to you before, have a good holiday season. It's nice to see you.
TIMONEY: Thank you very much.
BROWN: John Timoney, the commissioner of the Philadelphia Police Department joining us tonight. When come back, Afghan women coming out from beneath the veil -- and those who are choosing not to. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: You've seen some pictures of women in Afghanistan -- lots of them -- taking off their burkas, going out alone in public. Some are starting to do simple things that would have earned them a beating from the Taliban just four weeks ago. They're shopping or putting on makeup.
But for some, the end of the Taliban isn't about throwing off a veil or running out to get a job. It just means they'll be able to decide for themselves whether to wear a burka or not, whether to go out alone or not.
Some women are choosing not to, for religious reasons or cultural reasons, or because they are still afraid. CNN's Jason Bellini met some of some of them. And he reports tonight from Kabul.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
JASON BELLINI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Donning their burkas, Maryam Kasimi (ph) and two of her sisters-in-law leave a houseful of clinging children with their relatives and head to the bazaar.
Usually they come here to buy clothes for the children. Today, they are shopping for themselves. As they wind their way through the bazaar stalls, the post-Taliban freedom they feel most intensely is the freedom to shop.
"You can try on another," the shopkeeper tells them. During the Taliban regime, a merchant would take a big risk if he accepted money directly from the hand of a woman.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) could not take it out of their hand.
BELLINI: Women needed male escorts on their shopping expeditions. They broke the rules at their peril.
Were you ever hit by the Taliban?
MARYAM KASIMI (ph): "Once I came here. I didn't have socks on my feet so I was hit by the Taliban. They said, why didn't you have socks on your feet? And why do you come here without your men?" The women pick up a few more items, head home, and then quickly lose the burqas.
Aside from shopping, little else of the Maryam's daily routine is different now.
"In Afghanistan, there is no work for women," she says. "We just sit at home taking care of the children and doing all the work around the house."
Does it make you happy what you -- what you do? Do you wish you were doing something else?
KASIMI (ph): Actually, I'm happy with my living now. Before the Taliban I stayed at home. I'm happy to continue like this.
BELLINI: Her main concern is that her children go to school -- the boys and the girls.
"I will be very happy if my children are educated," she says.
What is this room here? 30 people live in this one home. If the men of the house get better jobs, that could change.
But change can be slow to come. I want go up on the roof to take a picture of the beautiful Afghan sunset.
But just as I was climbing the ladder I was told "No, don't do that. That's not allowed in this culture. You're not supposed to go up on the roof because men in the neighborhood might see you and think that you're looking down at their women." Another cultural taboo that hasn't gone away yet.
"During the Taliban regime, there were some effects on people's minds. We became more traditional," Maryam's husband said.
Maryam told me, "now I have the freedom to wear anything I want. Before I was like a prisoner. Now I have the right to do anything."
BELLINI: Why do you still wear the burka then?
Her answer: "Because there are lots of other women wearing the burka, so I don't want to get rid of it. Maybe even in the future I will still wear it." The choice is now hers. Freedom to shop a liberating step in a society where traditions aren't overturned as easily as regimes. Jason Bellini, CNN, Kabul, Afghanistan.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
BROWN: When I tell you our next guest is the reigning Miss Afghanistan, you'll probably think it's a joke. It's not. Zohra Yusuf Daoud won the title in 1972. That's the last time the pageant was held, so it is her title still.
These days, she is the host of "voice of Afghanistan," a talk program on the radio in Malibu, California. She joins us from Los Angeles. Welcome. It's nice to -- nice to see you.
ZOHRA YUSUF DAOUD, RADIO HOST AND MISS AFGHANISTAN: Thank you very much, Aaron, for having me on your show.
BROWN: It's our pleasure. Were you able to see the story that we just ran, by the way?
DAOUD: Yeah, I saw.
BROWN: Now, just react to it. What were you thinking as it was playing?
DAOUD: Well, I think right now (UNINTELLIGIBLE) society is not safe and secure, and women they are afraid because they have been conditioned like that for all these years. And also, they remember the atrocity that have been the committed to them from 1992 to 1996 and after that the Taliban. And because of that, they don't -- still they don't feel safe, you know?
For Afghan women coming out from here house without the burka, the safety and security is very important. And they are still afraid.
BROWN: It -- all of that must seem in some ways like a million years ago to you. So much has changed in Afghanistan since you left in '72 -- or around in there.
DAOUD: It charged a lot, you know. I became the first Miss Afghanistan in 1972. I still hold the title. I hope I will not be the last one and one day I go back to Afghanistan and transfer this title to another Afghan girl who deserves it more than me.
In my eyes, all those women and girls who are living in Afghanistan under such misery, they are the ones who a deserve the title of miss Afghanistan. But I have kept myself very low profile for all these years because I thought to promote myself as miss Afghanistan is a luxury that my society right now cannot afford it.
But right now, I think it's my duty to come out to tell the world that Afghanistan once was a peaceful country. People in that part of the world for centuries they lived in peace and harmony side-by-side. And we lived in democracy. We had parliament and our Constitution was one of the best in the world.
And what you see today in the -- in the media is the result of 23 years of war. And with the Soviet invasion of 1979, the fabric of Afghan society has been changed so (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
BROWN: What can -- let me -- let me ask the question this way. Look, in a lot of -- in a lot of Muslim countries, women are classically second-rate citizens, even in those countries that are allies to the United States. So as you look at Afghanistan, what is reasonable to expect over time the role of women in the country will be?
DAOUD: I think women in the future of Afghanistan might have very important role, because right you now, over -- women form over 75 percent of the workforce and over half a million of the people in Afghanistan are women. And their voice in the political future of Afghanistan and also in the workplace is very important.
But we shouldn't forget what you see in Islamic country and even in Afghanistan, it's not Islam -- it's the culture, you know. Unfortunately, Islam has been mixed with the culture of each country and because of that we have problem.
But I'm sure this problem will be solved soon. I see a bright future for Afghanistan as long as we have security, peace and unity.
BROWN: Thanks for your time tonight. You did a terrific job. We appreciate you joining us. We hope we'll to talk to you again.
DAOUD: Thank you very much, Aaron.
BROWN: Thank you very much. Nicely done. Coming up next on NEWSNIGHT, take one part cold fusion, three parts Ginsu knife, stir in a skateboard and some hype, and you've got the day's product. That scooter you've been seeing. We'll talk about it a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Well, there it is. And if the news hadn't been so bad, the entire day would have been spent on this little gee-whiz story. It's sort of cool, though, isn't it?
It's not like this thing came without a buildup. When Apple CEO Steve Jobs got a peek at what you're about to see, he said, "It could literally change the way we live." Intel's Andy Grove took a test drive and giggled like a third-grader, which I think I did just a moment ago.
Well, for better or for worse, this is it. Inventor Dean Kamen calls it the Segway Human Transporter. It runs on batteries. He says he'll sell it first to the Post Office at about eight grand a crack.
And then what? Well, beyond entertainment, that's an interesting question. We'll try and sort it out a bit. Someone once said, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." Someone else actually said, "there's a sucker born every minute." And one of our producers just wants to know what is so bad about walking anyway?
Paul Saffo joins us. He's the director at the Institute for the Future. One of the great job titles ever. And he joins us from San Francisco.
It's nice to see you. I told you in the break that I'm not sure I quite got what this is. I mean, why this is so fantastic? Why is it so fantastic, if in fact it is so fantastic?
PAUL SAFFO, INSTITUTE FOR THE FUTURE: Well, I think it's the story that is so fantastic.
This is one of those things that picks up all the American myths: the lone inventor, the big new idea, 12-month mystery. And lo and behold, it's unveiled and even the press melts in front of the thing. It's -- it's quite a story.
BROWN: You mean, you think we fell for enormous hype job here? Really? Here on television? You think we would do that? Goodness gracious. Are the things...
SAFFO: Well...
BROWN: I'm sorry. Go ahead.
SAFFO: I was just going to say in a period where all the rest of the news is bad, I think people like to have something that's unusual and happy and new. BROWN: I didn't think we needed someone from the Institute for the Future to tell us we will fall for hype, to be honest. Tell me if in the technology here there is something we ought to pay particular attention to that makes this thing a little bit nicer than an expensive scooter?
SAFFO: There is. And I think what you have to do separate today's product from the concept. Today's product is a modest little beginning. It's a device that could have industrial applications, but I don't expect it's going to make its way out into the consumer world any time soon.
But there's an intriguing idea here that there's a new class of transportation, personal transportation, that might go someplace if Kamen and his team stick to it.
BROWN: The problems here as you look at it are, what, cost? And what else?
SAFFO: Well, the challenge with any new technology is that everything is a problem at this stage. There is a conversation going on. The inventor proposes something to society and starts a conversation.
The hype, by the way, is the way they get the attention. And now it's up to society to decide if they want it. It's too expensive. It weighs too much -- 65 pounds. It doesn't go that far between charges. I don't know. Have you sent your check in yet?
BROWN: No. But I'm a little slow on these things. I'm not sure getting from my home to my office this is way to go. Do you see it having applications, even in its current form? Or not yet?
SAFFO: I think there -- there could be applications. It's a niche market, but they could find applications for it. Industrial parks, industrial plants where you've got to move around a lot in confined spaces. But this is not a million-item market with this machine.
BROWN: Half a minute or less. In -- whether it is or isn't, is there something exciting about the fact that somebody put together a kind of interesting invention and was able to get some hype out of the deal and all of this, and then maybe someday down the road there's something here for the rest of us?
SAFFO: Yes, I think there could be. Look at this device as the little baby entering. It's like the first stumbling little computer. Not right away. Maybe in five to ten years we might see something interesting here.
BROWN: Paul, thanks for your time. It's nice to talk to you.
SAFFO: It's nice to talk.
BROWN: Paul Saffo. We'll take a break and we'll wrap it up for Monday in a moment. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: I -- I've got to confess something here. I think I'm becoming an e-mail addict. I was spending much too much time -- they are actually trying to get me to do other work along the way in the afternoon, and I'm reading your e-mails. I hope you'll keep sending them.
Though if you are going to complain about the program, we would ask that you do it after the program -- not before. If we haven't run the story yet, you really can't complain about it.
Send us your e-mails at newsnight@cnn.com. Just the way it says on the screen. We try and read most or all of them and answer many of them.
That's the program for Monday night. We'll see you tomorrow at 10:00. Good night from all of us.
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