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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown
Kabul Prepares For New Government; Debating The Clinton Legacy
Aired December 21, 2001 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, "NEWSNIGHT": And good evening again everyone. It's Friday. It's the Friday before Christmas. It's the Friday before a week off. This program tonight could be an adventure.
I can't prove this, but it just seems to me that Christmas feels different this year. The weather here in the East has been remarkably warm for much of the last few weeks. No sign of snow.
But it's not just the weather and it's not just here. Across the country, we talked with friends and we've gotten the sense that everything is more sober this year. Concern for the troops overseas, concern for the economy at home, and of course the scars of September 11th are still quite raw.
And we haven't helped much around here, have we? The news over the last several weeks has been a bit tough to take, so we'll try to throw some fun into the mix tonight. After all, it is a Friday. But as always, and as it should be, the hard news comes first.
In Kabul today, there was preparations for something that happens just hours from now. A new government takes over, at least for the short term. And there's also tonight some concern that U.S. warplanes hit tribal chiefs near Tora Bora, friends of the Americans, not terrorists and we'll look at that tonight as well.
As for bin Laden, President Bush today said "he may have tried to slither out to Pakistan." He also said the country is safer than it was September 11th but the United States remains a target.
And September 11th rushes back when you look at this picture, but something good did come from Ground Zero this week. In the relative universe we find ourselves in, the fires are out there and the death toll, which has slowly but steadily come down. It's down below 3,000 today. Now imagine that. Imagine thinking a death toll in the thousands could be anything other than horrific.
We'll talk about the controversy over how to compensate the families victimized on September 11th tonight. This is troubling. We'll talk with two brothers who are unhappy about the way it's being handled.
I also have Jason Bellini's final collaboration with MTV News in Afghanistan, and Bruce Morton tonight on whether Christmas this year is, in fact, different. And then there's this holiday travel piece that's a bit of an experiment for us. That's all we're going to say about that right now.
We'll start as we always do with a whip around the world, the correspondents covering it. It starts at the Pentagon tonight and CNN's Bob Franken who has the duty. Bob, a headline please.
BOB FRANKEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And the cliche of the night, Aaron, is the more things change, the more they stay the same. And that could describe the day's story of the view of the war from the Pentagon.
BROWN: Bob, back with you shortly. Now, to Afghanistan, Kabul the capitol, where a government is preparing to take power. CNN's John Vause is there. John, a headline.
JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, on a bitterly cold morning here in Kabul, just a few hours from now that interim authority will take power, but the party may be short lived. There is an enormous job ahead.
BROWN: John, thank you. And next, to the White House, and the President's day today. CNN's Major Garrett is there. Major, a headline, please.
MAJOR GARRETT, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, the president who once referred to John Walker as a poor fellow, today called him an al Qaeda fighter, a terrorist in other words, and that's a label that no one, especially an American wants to wear right now. That it was applied by the commander-in-chief, who will hold John Walker's legal fate in his hands, make it all the more important.
BROWN: Major, thank you. Back with all of you shortly. We begin with the war and signs tonight that it's entering a new phase, certainly a more narrow focus and perhaps a whole lot riskier.
U.S. troops are going into cafes and giving chase through the hills and mountains of Afghanistan. And today, after three days of quiet, U.S. warplanes bombed in eastern Afghanistan. There is some dispute over exactly what they hit, though apparently there is no doubt at the Pentagon, at least last time we checked. We turn once again to CNN's Bob Franken. Bob.
FRANKEN: And you talk about the new phase and that's how the Secretary of Defense described it today. But there are some remnants of the old phase, some old charges, old denials, but also according to the Defense Secretary, some new successes.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FRANKEN (voice over): As the dust settles from the all-out war in Afghanistan, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld says that a methodical search through the debris has already made a significant contribution to the war on terrorism. DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: There has been information that has been gathered in Afghanistan that has directly resulted in the arrest of people across the world, at the other side of the globe, and undoubtedly have prevented other terrorist activities.
FRANKEN: Which countries? Which terrorist activities? Could the Defense Secretary be more specific?
RUMSFELD: No. I thought I did well.
UNIDENTIFIED CORRESPONDENT: No, certainly can (UNINTELLIGIBLE) or anything like that?
RUMSFELD: I could but I won't.
FRANKEN: Rumsfeld did confirm that U.S. troops have joined the search through the hundreds of caves and tunnels, and that more are on the way for work that is very tedious and, at the same time, very dangerous.
RUMSFELD: The assumption is anyone in there is dead, but if you make that assumption you can get in an awful lot of trouble awful fast. So they're exercising a great deal of care and they're properly trained and they're doing a good job.
FRANKEN: They'll get some help from a new weapon, brand new. It was less than two weeks ago that an intense heat bomb was still being tested in the Nevada desert. It's called a thermoberic bomb.
EDWARD ALDRIDGE, UNDER SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: We skipped a laser- guided bomb into a tunnel an exploded it with a delay fuse and experienced a significant growth in over pressure for the tunnels and temperature. It's something that we would clearly have a need for in Afghanistan, and they're on their way over there.
FRANKEN: Ten are being sent. They'll be dropped into the caves and tunnels from F-15 jets, even as the air war is scaling back. There was a three-day lull before U.S. planes attacked a convoy near the town of Khost, not far from Tora Bora, and not far from a facility identified as a terrorist training camp.
The attack they said here killed Taliban leaders, but on the ground some local officials claimed the dead were tribal elders on their way to the inauguration of Afghanistan's new government. Pentagon officials reject that possibility.
GENERAL PETER PACE, VICE CHAIRMAN, JOINT CHIEFS: I'd like not to address the specific indicators that caused us to strike that particular convoy, but the intelligence that we gathered at the time indicated to us that this was, in fact, leadership and we struck the leadership, as we will do next time we get that kind of intelligence.
FRANKEN: Pentagon officials provided no identification, but all of this seems to be an indication that although the war may seem to be rolling back, the fog of war definitely has not. Aaron. BROWN: Well the - you know, this story I heard it early in the afternoon that perhaps the wrong target was hit. Has there been any change in what the Pentagon's been saying through the course of the day, from the afternoon briefing until now?
FRANKEN: No. In fact, they're even more emphatic. First of all, they point out that the information is coming via the Islamic agency press, which they continuously point out is closely associated with the Taliban.
Also they say, they have checked and rechecked and they just firmly believe this time that the targets that they hit were with ones that they set out to hit.
BROWN: We'll see what shakes tomorrow on that, thanks. Bob Franken at the Pentagon tonight.
From Day One, there's been a concern that getting the Afghans to agree on a post-Taliban government would not be an easy thing to do, and it hasn't. But they did agree and tomorrow early, an interim government will take power in Kabul.
If all goes well, it will be a tense moment, but it will be a peaceful one. The story takes place in the capitol, the ceremony does. CNN's John Vause is there. John, good morning to you.
VAUSE: Hello, Aaron. Well, there is a sense of hope and optimism here in Kabul. But as I said, there is a message up ahead to this new interim administration.
Nine billion dollars is the price tag the U.N. and the World Bank puts on rebuilding the infrastructure in Afghanistan. It says that the money will be coming over the next five years, providing this interim administration and the governments which follow, can maintain the peace.
In the short-term, $600 million just to reopen schools, improve the health care system, give seed to farmers, and improve the water supply; $20 million for the interim administration simply to go out and buy office equipment, to pay salaries, to buy everything from paper clips to pencils to desks and chairs.
Now security here in Kabul for this swearing in ceremony is extremely tight. On the streets this morning, troops were lining the streets every 20 to 30 feet. They were stopping and checking every card. It's a very visible security presence.
Not so visible, the British Royal Marines, who last night moved into the British Embassy. They say they will take up positions around Kabul during the ceremony. They say they'll have a low-key, a very low profile role for the next few days.
They're of course the advance guard before the international stabilization force arrives. They say they're merely here to offer advice and to be on hand should the interim administration need their help. Also yesterday, a security sweep across Kabul, apart of that security sweep, bomb-sniffing dogs were brought in as well as security and heavily armed troops on checkpoints.
There is also a number of diplomats who have arrived in the capitol, Kabul. Among the foreigners and the foreign dignitaries here, Tommy Franks, the Commander of the U.S. Central Command who led the bombing campaign which ultimately ousted the Taliban from power.
Now one final thing, yesterday they did in fact solve one problem. Someone found a cassette tape with the Afghanistan National Anthem on it. They needed that cassette tape because they couldn't find enough musicians to play, to form the band to play the National Anthem.
Now that National Anthem hasn't been heard for many, many years so it will be very interesting to see how many people here actually know the words. Aaron.
BROWN: That is an absolutely priceless anecdote there. You talked about troops lining the streets. Whose troops? Who are they? Who's commanding them?
VAUSE: These are the municipal authority troops. They're essentially the police, if you like. They wear the gray uniforms, not the fatigues of the Northern Alliance, although ultimately they do come under the umbrella we're told of the Northern Alliance.
But these more, if you like, a civil authority rather than the hard and battle weary troops of the Northern Alliance who fought the war just a few weeks ago.
They're heavily armed though. They carry RPGs and those Kalashnikov AK-47 rifles.
BROWN: And will many of the citizens of Kabul be allowed to watch it all?
VAUSE: Well that's the interesting point. They're expecting about 2,000 Afghan citizens who will actually be allowed in to watch the proceedings. They are making provisions to put this on television, although we're not quite too sure how that will work.
Afghan TV isn't the most reliable source of communications in the country. It's a very difficult thing to try and get messages out to the population.
But essentially, the vast bulk of the million population which makes up Kabul will not be able to see the proceedings which are taking place here today.
BROWN: John, thanks. John Vause in Kabul on a historic day in the Afghan capitol. We mentioned earlier the president took another jab at Osama bin Laden today. Tough words as well for world leaders who say one thing about terrorism and perhaps do another. "Thank you for your condolences," the president said. "I appreciate your flowers. Now arrest somebody if they're in your country."
He also had a lot to say about the American Taliban John Walker. So we go back to the White House and CNN's Major Garrett who's on the lawn tonight. Major, good evening.
GARRETT: Good evening, Aaron. Senior administration officials tell CNN that as they deliberate what to do about John Walker's case, what they want to do is bring a case they can win in court. No real surprise there.
But that has a lot of bearing on exactly what kind of case will be brought and exactly where. Will it be a military court? Will it be a civilian court? The administration is still debating that.
The president took some questions today in the Oval Office about John Walker and a range of other topics and he actually made a little bit of news about the John Walker case.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The administration's heard from his lawyer and we told his lawyer that at the appropriate time, we'll let everybody know, including his family how we're going to proceed with Walker, as well as others that have become captured during this war.
GARRETT: Aaron, nobody knew that John Walker's attorney, James Brosnahan had been in touch with the White House Counsel. In fact, CNN learned that he was in touch with Alberto Gonzalez, the White House Counsel on Monday.
Senior administration officials privy to those conversations tell us the conversation was about five minutes. It was serious, had no legal bluster in it, and was not a part of any posturing maneuver by Mr. Walker's attorney. Overall, the administration considers the conversation generally good.
Here's one interesting note, Aaron. James Brosnahan is no mystery figure to people at this Bush White House. He was a lead prosecutor in the Iran Contra Scandal, and he handled the perjury case against Caspar Weinberger, a case that was nullified when, at the last minute, George Herbert Walker Bush, the 41st president, pardoned Cap Weinberger right before that case was to go to trial. Aaron.
BROWN: Well, the key thing as I listen to this was the change in tone. I mean, we've gone from an almost empathetic description from the president to a much harsher one. The president sending signals here?
GARRETT: The president knows, and his senior advisors know, that John Walker's peers or might we call them his former peers, the American public want the maximum charge brought, and they want that charge successfully prosecuted. That's why the administration is being very careful in the gathering of facts. Also, as they gather those facts, they're trying to extract more information from John Walker, dangling lesser charges in exchange for more information, a common prosecutorial tactic.
We're not expecting any definitive word from the White House as to what will become judicially of John Walker for at least a week. Aaron.
BROWN: And, Major, this is probably unfair to ask you, so beg off if you might, if you wish, do we believe that his lawyer, Walker's lawyer has had any contact with his client at all?
GARRETT: I don't - I simply do not know.
BROWN: OK.
GARRETT: I've made several attempts to talk to James Brosnahan today. He declined to return my phone calls and said, issuing a broad statement just talking about his general efforts on Mr. Walker's behalf, no comments back to me. His bad luck, not mine.
BROWN: Thank you. I'm sorry to put you on the spot there.
GARRETT: That's all right.
BROWN: Have a good weekend, thank you.
GARRETT: All right.
BROWN: Major Garrett at the White House tonight. In a moment, health problems facing New York's firefighters who spend days, weeks, long day and weeks breathing the smoke at Ground Zero. More on that as NewsNight continues on the Friday before Christmas.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: A notable moment this week from Ground Zero, when New York's Governor declared that that large fire in the center of it all is officially out. For anyone that lives in New York, especially if you live in Lower Manhattan, you know the smell from those fires is so strong.
You can imagine what it's been like to breathe that stuff. The rescue workers don't have to imagine, of course. Some of them say they've been having problems breathing, because of working down at Ground Zero.
Well the fire department gave workers equipment to protect themselves, respirators and the like, some workers say they didn't come soon enough and when they did, they argued they couldn't do the job while wearing them.
So now, some are left wondering if their health has been put in permanent jeopardy. Today, we talked with Tom Manley, the Health Director for the Uniformed Firefighters Association. TOM MANLEY, HEALTH DIRECTOR, UNIFORMED FIREFIGHTERS ASSOCIATION: I know I have at least 400 firefighters that have respiratory problems that are out on medical leave for it.
I have another 4,000 firefighters that have the World Trade Center cough, they call it, which doesn't constitute medical leave because it's just a cough that just comes upon you and then it leaves.
But the respiratory problem part of it is, they can't walk up three flights of stairs without being winded. So you can't fight fires in that condition, and hopefully it will get better. You know, the guys will get well.
We have some guys that did get well and are back to full duty, and we got some guys that continue on medical leave. We have to make sure the members are protected.
You know, once you're retired, you have limited medical benefits and everything else, so if you come up with complications from the World Trade Center, we want to make sure they're covered by the city, you know, and that's our main concern is to make sure our members are protected.
You know, we lost 343 members down there. I think that says a lot for our job. You know, to give the ultimate sacrifice of your life to protect the citizens of the city.
So I think there shouldn't be no problem with anything that's done with the firefighters.
BROWN: The firefighters health story. We've learned a lot of things from September 11th. One of the most important is that it was an equal opportunity disaster. Some illegal immigrants died that day, men and women being paid not much at all, and being paid under the table. And then there were executives earning seven-figure salaries lost as well, and everything and everyone in between.
Kenneth Feinberg is the man in charge of how the government will compensate people, and this week he came up with a formula, an equation if you will, to compensate the families.
We'd like to think there'd be some simple magical way to treat everyone in a fair and equitable way. We know that's probably not going to happen and the outcome's going to upset some people.
Families from other disasters, Oklahoma City bombing for one, have complained that they never got the assistance that they were promised or believed they deserved, and some families now from September 11th feel they're being slighted as well.
We're joined tonight by brothers affected by the tragedy of that Tuesday morning, and they are not happy at all about how the money is being distributed, Michael and Patrick Cartier.
Let's do the toughest question first. You had two family members in the towers, right?
PATRICK CARTIER: I had my sister Michele, who was in Tower 1 and my brother James was in Tower 2.
BROWN: And James died that day, correct?
P. CARTIER: Yes, he did.
BROWN: And your sister survived?
P. CARTIER: Yes, she did.
BROWN: Okay. There's no question that you're entitled to compensation, correct, for your brothers death?
MICHAEL CARTIER: Certainly.
P. CARTIER: Yes, we are. I believe that the compensation package that's been presented by the Special Master doesn't completely take into complete account of what the victim's life entailed. I mean, pain and suffering, the loss of happiness and the loss of pleasures that they would have had.
BROWN: So even the settlement where your brother's concerned is not adequate as you see it. The number is not the right number, is that right?
P. CARTIER: As civilians educate themselves in terms of the fund itself and how both sides of the equation work, you have the economical and the non-economical. The economical as I've educated myself is almost etched in stone.
You can't change that, so the non-economical side was crucial to many families to balance in terms, especially for those families that were of the lower tier of the economical hierarchy.
The definition of the non-economical, according to the guidelines, is very restrictive in terms of what this tragedy encompassed. You have people like my sister that walked down the stairs, came out of the tower complex and saw bodies land on the floor.
She say people -
BROWN: Dismembered.
P. CARTIER: Dismembered. She suffered severe mental anguish. In terms of -
BROWN: Wait. Before you go on with that, is she entitled to any compensation?
P. CARTIER: No, not at all.
M. CARTIER: Nothing.
P. CARTIER: Not at all. The non-economical aspect of the formula does not involve her in the slightest bit.
BROWN: So unless a family member perished or a family member was hurt, there is no compensation.
P. CARTIER: No.
M. CARTIER: No compensation whatsoever.
BROWN: Why should there be?
M. CARTIER: Well, if you look at the charities. The charities are encompassing the businesses, people who lost their jobs, people who were affected mentally by what has happened and they have the criteria so wide open to support these people, and that's why I guess the government may be narrowing just to compensate those that by law are supposed to get some form of compensation.
P. CARTIER: The system as well was designed almost to act as a backup to the bills that were passed to bail out the airlines. Now this system was in place to compensate these families, had they sought litigation against the airlines.
BROWN: Right.
P. CARTIER: So had my sister sought litigation on her own for mental anguish, which she by law can, she would receive a reward to a certain extent. My father particularly could have sought legal action against the airlines for the death of my brother. However, the caps that the government places on the airlines restricts us from that. The fund is our only choice, but in turn, they make the fund very restrictive and completely inadequate.
BROWN: Look, I have a feeling - I'm going to ask this really gently, but I have a feeling there are people out there right now who are saying, the death of your brother was a terrible tragedy and the way this is set up you ought to be compensated, but you're awfully lucky your sister got out of there.
There's a lot of people who didn't get out of there, and any money that goes to her is denied to those families. How do you respond to them?
M. CARTIER: Well, I would respond to that by saying, well OK my sister Michele wouldn't be compensated, then compensate the families who died properly and ethically.
There's a lot of flaws in this new bureaucracy that the families now have to go through. They have already suffered through the processes that was presented by the charities.
And now we have a Special Master who has come out with a dollar value on the lives of the victims, and now they have to go and present to them individually and tell them in economic terms that the value of their sons or daughters who died is a lot more than what they're going to be receiving.
BROWN: And just quickly, a few seconds, anybody giving you help here? The mayor giving you help? The governor giving you help?
P. CARTIER: The mayor has been extremely helpful. We formulated a committee and we are working with him. We met with Governor Pataki today. He even expressed his own thought that the fund was insufficient and inadequate.
M. CARTIER: He's also going to argue on behalf of the families too on that case.
BROWN: Thanks for coming in. It's complicated stuff, and we'll continue to keep an eye on that.
P. CARTIER: Thank you.
M. CARTIER: Thank you very much.
BROWN: Good luck to you. Before we go to break here, we want to take a moment to say goodbye to an extraordinary man, a familiar personality to many of you, a colleague and a friend to many of us.
Dick Schaap died today. He died of complications after hip surgery. Dick was only 67. Viewers knew him lately as a sports reporter and a host at ESPN. Readers, particularly in New York, knew him as an author or scores of books.
He wrote a biography of Robert Kennedy. He covered the Civil Rights Movement, wrote syndicated columns for the papers here, reviewed theater, talked with nearly every major figure of the last 40 years.
Dick talked to anyone with a story to tell, and believe me, he was never without one of his own. More important than that, he listened. He listened and he rarely forgot a story, or a name or a face.
We will surely remember his. He was a friend and a colleague. Our hearts are with his family tonight. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Someone once said, if you want to know what a mixed blessing really is, try being an ex-president. You keep the title, but you give up the power. You get to watch your successor try to undo your accomplishments.
True for John Adams and true these days for Bill Clinton, who seems especially stung by criticism he dropped the ball on Osama bin Laden.
He held a strategy session of sorts this week with a number of former advisers, among them Bill Richardson, former Energy Secretary and Ambassador to the United Nations. Secretary Richardson joins us from Albuquerque.
And in Washington, Paul Begala, who did not take part in the meeting, but knows the ex-president well and offered him advice for a long time. It's nice to see both of you.
Secretary Richardson, when I read the account of the meeting in The Times today, there was a certain sad quality about it. Was it a sad meeting and is he a sad man these days?
BILL RICHARDSON, FORMER ENERGY SECRETARY: Aaron, it wasn't a sad meeting. I participated by phone. It was basically a discussion of how the Clinton legacy, particularly in the domestic arena with economic prosperity, welfare reform, the crime issue, how the democratic party and the public needs to recognize the accomplishments of the administration.
It was also an opportunity, Aaron, for the Clinton staff and the Clinton cabinet members, all of whom have been dispersed doing private sector work, could get together and basically set the record straight on the Clinton accomplishments.
It was not a trashing session of President Bush. In fact, President Clinton was quite complimentary on the terrorism issue. It was not a whining session. It was basically an opportunity to try to set the record straight, especially now with the economy in bad shape, the opportunity to talk about the accomplishments on the budget surplus, the balanced budget, and it was not a negative session.
BROWN: Paul, you weren't at the meeting, but you thought a lot about the former president and what it must be like. Does it surprise you still how much venom there is out there?
PAUL BEGALA, PROFESSOR OF PUBLIC POLICY, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY: Endlessly. Endlessly. The meeting that you talked about and that Bill talked about was with his substantive advisors, not his political team, not people like me and Carville. And yet the substance, I think, of course I'm a biased guy but the substantive record is for all to see. It was a good record.
He took the worst economy we had since the Great Depression and turned it into the strongest in history and on and on, crime and welfare. You know, all the indications of what used to be called our social pathology, and he turned that all around. And yet despite all of that, there's still a cadre.
It's not big, but there's a cadre of kind of, you know pathetic right-wingers out there who continue to bang on him in a way that, frankly, we democrats never did when Ronald Reagan left office or when George Bush, Sr., when we defeated him.
We didn't go after those guys after they had left. We treated them with the respect that they deserved for having served their country. I think it's a sad commentary on the republicans today that they don't give President Clinton that same respect.
BROWN: Paul, let me ask it this way: what difference, in a sense, does it make right now? History is going to say what history is going to say, and this is all going to shake out where it really matters, I suppose, in the history books. So, is this really about trying to make sure that the Democratic party has legs to stand on in 2002?
BEGALA: Yeah, I think it is. And not just 2002, but going forward. You know, President Clinton is very much focused on the future, you're right. But, they're going to build that library in Little Rock and we'll let historians decide whether Clinton was a good or bad president.
But, you know, he's only a 57-year-old man. He wants to look forward and, you know, he did help to redefine the Democratic party in what he called "the third way". And it is very important to all of us who worked for him that that kind of philosophy keep moving forward.
And I've got to say, I've been spending a fair amount of time with him, he's had nothing but praise for the current crop of Democrats who are running the party now, so there's no criticism of them. But it is important, I think, to tap the mind of the guy who, I think, is the greatest political talent I've ever seen in my lifetime. I mean, I know a lot of great young men -- I turned 40 this year...
BROWN: Oh, man.
BEGALA: ... and Bill Clinton's the only Democrat in my lifetime to win two presidential elections.
BROWN: Yeah.
BEGALA: So, we'd be crazy just to put him out to pasture. We ought to seek his counsel, and a lot of us are.
BROWN: Secretary Richardson, maybe a variation of the same question on the venom that still exists; is he frustrated that he's, that he's not being better received out there these days?
RICHARDSON: Aaron, the frustration I detected, there was very little in his voice, because he was upbeat, he was engaged, he was running the meeting, was that somehow that the Democratic party not forget the accomplishments of the administration, particularly in respect to the economy.
And there was a little frustration that somehow in the discussion of the budget issues, the issues relating to the economic stimulus package, the issues relating to a budget surplus that has vanished, that somehow it was not pointed out by members of the Democratic party and others in the press the excellent Clinton record. So, it was an effort to bring together the former cabinet members, staff, to see how we can get the word out...
BROWN: Well, secretary -- I'm sorry. Secretary Richardson, surely he must understand that there is, there is those other things out there that haven't gone away, that make Democrats very nervous because it also then starts to -- then we start talking about impeachment again and all the rest. He -- surely he gets that.
RICHARDSON: Well, Aaron, it wasn't a session to plan a huge offensive or a media campaign or a war room. It was simply, one, to get the team back together. Number two, to get coordinated answers. For instance, you know, I think it was frustrating to get accused by some in the media and other sources that the president didn't do enough to go after Osama bin Laden, when in effect he did, intensively.
And so it was an effort on a variety of fronts, domestic and international, to get the team together, the ones that participated in the eight years, to get the message out. Not necessarily to plan an offensive in response to attacks, but simply to set the record straight and to have, yes, a defense of the legacy on a lot of very positive fronts.
BROWN: Secretary Richardson and Paul Begala, thanks for joining us. Have good holidays, coming up here.
RICHARDSON: Thank you, Aaron.
BROWN: Thank you. We'll talk again, I hope.
Coming up next on NEWSNIGHT, Jason Bellini in Afghanistan, young kids, big tasks, trying to rebuild their country. This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Generalizations are often very comforting, which may be why we indulge in them so often. And one of them is that teenagers, all of them, are alike. Jason Bellini and MTV news have helped us this week show how empty that statement can be, especially in terms of the terms differences, vast differences, between the kids in Afghanistan and American kids.
But there have also been similarities. They all seem to like music, if not always the same music. But the kids in Afghanistan are so very different that kids in the United States in one brutally obvious way; the Afghan kids have never known anything but war, and now it's up to them rebuild one of the poorest nations on the planet. And that's what Jason looks at tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was just wondering, what do young Afghans do to help rebuild the country?
JASON BELLINI, CNN: To get you an answer to your question about what young Afghans are doing to help in their communities, I've come to a small village that's in the foothills of the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) mountains outside of Kabul.
I met some young people here who volunteer for the Red Crescent Society to help with medical assistance.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (via interpreter): These young people have been very helpful to us. The wells we use for water were contaminated, but they taught us how to keep them clean.
BELLINI: Were people getting sick because of the water? UNIDENTIFIED MALE (via interpreter): Yes, of course people got sick. If we don't show them how to purify the water, they get worms and amoebas in there.
BELLINI: Have you ever gotten sick from the water?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (via interpreter): Yes.
(BABY CRYING)
BELLINI: I've come to a Red Crescent Society health clinic in Kabul where I met Habiba (ph), who is 21 years old. Her job is to help mothers to learn about the vaccinations they need. It's an important role she plays, because nearly one in four babies dies before reaching the age of five here.
HABIBA (ph) (via interpreter): It's every young persons role to help out people, to help Afghanistan. This is a job that we have to do. It's our duty.
BELLLINI: Most of the assistance that young people are offering right now isn't coming through organizations. It's coming very spontaneously. Young people helping out their families and their communities as problems arise.
In recent weeks, the World Food Program has been offering sacks of wheat and sacks of flour to needy families. Young people will go out and wait in line. They'll take their wheelbarrow out there, fight their way to getting food for their families -- it's pretty rough-and- tumble in there.
(YELLING)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What can young Americans do to help people suffering in Afghanistan?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (via interpreter): The biggest problems in Afghanistan are the water, how to feed the children, education and the economy. We need Americans to send us money. If the country has no economy, we can't go to school, we can't learn, we can't do anything.
BELLINI: Young Afghans tell me again and again that what their country needs right now is economic assistance. Otherwise, this country, they say, is likely to spiral back into war. And if that happens, all their volunteer efforts will be in vein.
Reporting from Afghanistan, for MTV and CNN, I'm Jason Bellini.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: And coming up next on NEWSNIGHT, news to amuse. Seems like a tough assignment, but the comedienne Alexandra Wentworth joins us to help us along. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BROWN: For as long as this program exists, our next guest will have a special place in the NEWSNIGHT heart, if there is one. We were supposed to meet with her on September 11th, have a chance to get acquainted, talk about coming in from time to time to talk about all sorts of things. It was a meeting, obviously, that never happened.
A few weeks after the 11th she did come on the program that night with Al Franken, as I recall, to talk about comedy in a time of terror. There wasn't much. Things in that regard are better, so we're delighted today to welcome Alexandra Wentworth. Nice to see you.
ALEXANDRA WENTWORTH, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Nice to see you.
BROWN: I think the first thing I asked you that night, I don't remember how long ago it was, is, did you feel funny. And you said no.
WENTWORTH: No.
BROWN: Yeah. When did you start to get over it...
WENTWORTH: Well, Aaron, you don't wake up one morning and go, I'm funny today. But, I think that the longer that this war has gone on, the more you need a release. You just do. I mean, I think, I've gone to see a lot of movies I wouldn't have otherwise gone to see, just because I needed an escape.
BROWN: Do you think people are doing that in a sense that they are, I don't know if overcompensating is the right word, but they're behaving differently because they need a release that they might...
WENTWORTH: Yes.
BROWN: Yeah.
WENTWORTH: Absolutely. And I think, I think you can see it around Christmas. You know, even in New York you see a lot of people out and about. Maybe not consuming as much as they have in the past, but certainly, you know, seeing the tree, ice-skating, walking up and down Fifth Avenue.
I know that I've heard some reports that a lot of the malls in America are packed. I don't know the exact statistics of what, how much people are spending, but I think that people need a relief from everything. And so, you know, I'm sure people are putting more reindeer and Santa than they usually do on the roof and, you know, there's more lights on some house in Minnesota than usual. But...
BROWN: There cannot be more lights on those houses in Minnesota.
WENTWORTH: You'd be surprised.
BROWN: I'm not sure if we talked about this on the air that time or not, but I know you were concerned -- you had a wedding in November.
WENTWORTH: I did.
BROWN: And you were concerned then about whether to have it, or whether to delay it, whether to go ahead.
WENTWORTH: Yes.
BROWN: Was it different because of September 11th, do you think?
WENTWORTH: Well, I like to think that I had a fabulous wedding and the food was great...
BROWN: The picture looked good.
WENTWORTH: Everybody had a good time. But, you know, there was a moment where I was thinking of canceling it, because I think it's not appropriate, and everybody said no, we need something to celebrate. We need to kind of get out of our heads about everything that's going on in the Middle East and, you know, do something different. So, you know, there was -- I think a lot more people got up and danced than would have otherwise. And I think that there was this real need to have a celebratory night. And I felt that at the wedding, and I feel it at Christmas too.
I think there's two camps at Christmas. One is, you know, we've been through months of this. I'm tired of being depressed. I've never cooked before in my life, but I'm going to make gingerbread men, or I'm going to have a Christmas party, or I'm going to, you know, drink malt cider. And there are other people that feel guilty about that, or depressed about that.
And so, I've seen really two different camps. I mean, some people overcompensating in the kind of holiday gift giving or party giving world and then other people who are just, you know, making donations and didn't put up a tree or a Menorah and just don't, don't feel like singing a carol.
BROWN: Anything funny about the war? Or all of that? I mean, can you get a laugh on stuff like that?
WENTWORTH: I, well, I occasionally can. I mean, it's -- you have to be careful. I think it's, I think that you can find humor in bin Laden because he's such an evil, bad guy. Again, you know, "Springtime for Hitler" was funny years later. But...
BROWN: A lot of years later.
WENTWORTH: I -- a lot of the things, with the caves, I find humor -- I mean, I have a dachshund who are bred to go into tunnels and holes to, you know, scare out the foxes. And I just have these incredible images of, you know, just, lurchers (ph) and greyhounds and dachshunds going after, and I think they'd be very successful.
But, during the -- when they were showing the tapes this past week, there was one tape of these guys bringing out things found in the cave, and one of them was a barbell which, first of all, it was painted some bright color, which I thought was hilarious because I think, so, they're in this dark cave eating God knows what, you know, strategizing evil, corrupt plans, but from 10:00 to noon, they work out. You know, it's a crunch in the cave...
BROWN: They were at the gym.
WENTWORTH: ... you know, and there's a trainer and I just, to me that was humorous. So, there's moments of absurdity, is really the better word for it.
BROWN: It's nice to meet you, finally.
WENTWORTH: It's nice to meet you.
BROWN: Say hi to your husband for me.
WENTWORTH: I will say hi to him.
BROWN: Our offices were right next door for a long time.
WENTWORTH: He told me.
BROWN: Nice to see you.
WENTWORTH: Nice to see you.
BROWN: And we continue in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Here's our Christmas travel story. It's actually a story within a story. It was sent to us by a guy, our producer, David Borman (ph), and I would like to join the staff here. He'd like to come to work here, but we didn't ask for this piece. We have no money to pay for it, and our boss, a guy named Sid, whose a good guy, said there is no more money in the budget. Actually, I think Sid said "Are you crazy? We're bleeding money because of this war."
Anyway, we liked the story, and if you do too, well, remember that little e-mail deal we did with "The Atlanta Journal Constitution"? Might work again.
So, here's the piece. It's a trip down the loneliest stretch of road in America or at least what used to be, out in the middle of nowhere, Nevada. And it's reported by Scott Herriott, who, Sid, works real cheap.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCOTT HERRIOTT (voice-over): Pulling out of Carson City without a video crew in order to make the story that much hipper, and traveling during wintertime to ensure plenty of isolation, I decided to give myself one day to traverse and tape America's so-called most desolate road.
HERRIOTT: Hello. I'm an idiot. HERRIOTT (voice-over): I then decided on two days, due to all the good stuff that I was finding. And, of course, the poor camera work.
Would the people, if any, be friendly? What kind of wild life might I hope to encounter? And would CNN end up running the piece just because some of the scenery looked life Afghanistan?
About 50 miles east of Fernley (ph), the official west-end of the road, I found myself impressed with Sand Mountain.
HERRIOTT: A real big pile of sand.
HERRIOTT (voice-over): A gigantic depository of windblown grit from the nearby dry-bed of Lake Lahonta.
A little farther East, there was a good crop Nike's coming in this year. Sure, at times I got bored. But there are lots of advantages of being on a lonesome byway. I only wish now that I hadn't just rented "Billy Elliott."
Now, while I certainly found vast stretches of solitude, I also noticed something else along the way.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, you're the guy with the camera...
HERRIOTT: The story, yeah. People.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Am I on "Candid Camera"?
HERRIOTT (voice-over): And for that I was actually thankful on my return trip from the east end of the road indian (ph), whereupon making a way too wide bonehead U-turn, I found myself in need of a copilot.
HERRIOTT: And what's your name?
DON: Don.
HERRIOTT (voice-over): So, if you plan to take on the 274 mile long stretch of the not-so-loneliest road in America, might I suggest a stunt double.
Scott Herriott for CNN.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Good, bad or otherwise, you can e-mail us at NEWSNIGHT@CNN.COM. We'll be right back with a look at Christmas.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: If you work in the news business, there's a very particular feeling, almost a routine, around this time of year. To sum it up, things usually ground to a halt and we start sifting through the predictable stories about travel tips, scary fruitcakes and how to deal with family stress during the holidays.
Safe to say, if there was ever a year when the routine would change, it would be this year, for us in the media, and for you at home.
CNN'S Bruce Morton wanted to look at the question, is Christmas different this year? The right question before we leave you tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOMMY STINSON (ph): Yep, that's the one. This is my tree.
BRUCE MORTON, CNN (voice-over): At a Los Angeles shopping mall, Tommy Stinson (ph) buys his tree this Christmas.
The big tree is up in Rockefeller Center in New York. Lots of flags. It's Christmas, but it's different.
At St. Paul's Church, down by ground zero, there's a tree, too, and a man who plays sometimes carols, sometimes other things.
(MUSIC)
For some people, like Chicagoan Amy Brim (ph), it's not the holiday they remember.
AMY BRIM (ph): The whole mood of Christmas is, like, gone, because everything that has happened.
MORTON (voice-over): But others, like Melissa Ruge (ph), back in California, think the holiday means more because of September 11th.
MELISSA RUGE (ph): It's even more strong, maybe, this year, because of the loss that people have. They're bonding closer with their family.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's family members that you neglected to see, or a friend that you've neglected to call, you know, it gives you an incentive to want to reach out and touch those people.
MORTON (voice-over): Fifth Avenue is full of people. Michigan Avenue in Chicago is full of people. Lots of shopping bags. Lots of ads for bargains. How will business be? One expert is optimistic.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE IN SANTA COSTUME: You see a lot of people are having a lot of smiles, shopping.
MORTON (voice-over): Back at St. Paul's, some of the signs, some of the people are reminders that Christmas celebrates values besides gifts, it celebrates shared love and hope and unity.
Jule Buna (ph) and Gizmo (ph), back at that California mall.
JULE BUNA (ph): I think throughout, like, our whole society, I think everyone is closer and that, you know, it's just brought a lot of people together. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People were kind of grieving still, I think. But now, it feels a little bit more like Christmas, and people are kind of in the giving spirit. I've noticed that people are donating more money and I see the little guys, you know, ringing their little bells, and I think things are getting a little bit better.
MORTON (voice-over): This Christmas may be less about gifts than about families. Back in Chicago, Holly Boyd (ph).
HOLLY BOYD (ph): We've been saying a lot of prayers, but I think it's important for the kids to know that, you know, there is still love and happiness around the Christmas season and, you know, it is a time of peace as well.
MORTON (voice-over): Tommy Stinson (ph) carries his tree. It's Christmas, different, but Christmas.
Bruce Morton, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: And, before we leave you for the holiday, a couple of quick program notes. On Christmas Eve and New Year's Eve, special NEWSNIGHTS both nights. Those nights, we'll take a look at New York and this piece, this program includes some never before seen, or a never before seen, at least we believe it's not been seen before, documentary on the building of the Trade Center. It's really interesting stuff.
And Christmas Day and New Year's Day on NEWSNIGHT, a look at the USO that NEWSNIGHTS Beth Nissen has put together and it is terrific. Those special programs coming up over the holidays. We hope your holidays are terrific as well. Good night from all of us at NEWSNIGHT.
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