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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown
Ronald Reagan Turns 91; DOJ Has Produced E-Mails Sent by John Walker
Aired February 06, 2002 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: And good evening again, everyone.
As Larry just mentioned, former president Reagan turns 91 today. His daughter Patty said the other day that the family will commemorate the birthday, but it won't be happy. Mr. Reagan, as you know, has Alzheimer's, and the family offers up very few details of his life these days, and who can blame them? They would like all of us to remember him for the man he was.
And whatever you thought of his politics, he was quite a man. It's often hard for people to separate the two. If we disagree with someone on some important issue or another, we often tend to dismiss the person entirely. And conversely, if we find ourselves agreeing with someone's politics, we tend to overlook anything that might be considered a flaw.
This seems absolutely true of the way Mr. Reagan is still viewed by many people today, politically.
What I liked most about Mr. Reagan was something I learned from a woman in Philadelphia. When she was 13 and he was about 20 or so, she wrote him a fan letter, the kind of thing that kids did with movie stars. And he wrote back, and the two kept writing for more than 50 years.
She showed me the letters. Whether he was an actor in B-movies, a corporate spokesman, a governor, or the president of the United States, the letters were very much the same, warm, human, humble, gracious and surprisingly personal. You could not read the letters and not like the man who wrote them.
We'll let others debate the politics of his time. On his 91st birthday, we remember the letters, a better window than any piece of legislation into who he was.
On to the news of the day and our whip around the world, which begins with the possibility of a major success for the military and intelligence communities in Afghanistan.
Jamie McIntyre is at the Pentagon. Jamie, a headline from you, please.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN MILITARY AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, it may just be wishful thinking, but the CIA may have killed Osama bin Laden with a Hellfire missile fired from an unmanned spy plane. Or it may have killed somebody else. Right now, nobody knows.
BROWN: Jamie, an intriguing way to begin. Back with you shortly.
Now to Camp X-Ray in Guantanamo Bay, another group in to see the detainees today. Bob Franken on station. Bob, a headline, please.
BOB FRANKEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, as the group heads this way, we got a closer look than we ever did at the detainees who are already here, along with some very important members of the media. Among other things, we saw a very strange way that the detainees get around -- Aaron.
BROWN: Thank you.
And what would the whip be without Susan Candiotti? Again working the John Walker Lindh story. A bail hearing today. Susan, a headline, please.
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, John Walker Lindh will not be going home with his parents until his trial. Few expected that would happen. Not expected, some fascinating e-mails revealed by the government today, e-mails allegedly sent by Walker Lindh to his parents. We'll tell you about them.
BROWN: Susan, thank you. Back to you, back to all of you shortly.
Also coming up tonight, controversial story about a man convicted of rape, he even confessed. But the DNA tests tell a different story. The man remains in prison tonight.
Also tonight, a story from Beth Nissan about Alzheimer's, giving people the Main Street they once knew, help them give back to them some of their memory. This is a very nice piece, and, yes, we decided to run it today, Mr. Reagan's birthday, the right day to run it.
And a different commemoration for her majesty Queen Elizabeth. Exactly 50 years ago today, her father died and she became the queen, one of the longest reigns in the last 1,000 years of English history. A NEWSNIGHT flashback to help her celebrate.
And contributor Keith Olbermann tonight has a story that will definitely make you pause the next time you hit the Send button.
All of that in the hour ahead.
We begin with the tantalizing possibility that a key member, perhaps the most key member, of al Qaeda is dead, killed this week not by a soldier or a Marine or an airman but by a tiny unarmed spy plane.
Unarmed, yes, but not since the war began, they've been armed.
Back to CNN's Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon -- Jamie. MCINTYRE: Well, this Predator unmanned aerial vehicle has been in the U.S. inventory for a while, but it wasn't until Afghanistan that it was armed with Hellfire missiles and sent to track al Qaeda and Taliban leaders, operated not by the U.S. military but by the CIA.
The armed version of the Predator was tracking a convoy of SUVs as it went through the area near Tora Bora, an area where Osama bin Laden is known to -- last known to have been, when it spotted this convoy with a -- what appeared to be somebody being given great deference and a lot of security. When they stopped their vehicles, the Predator fired a Hellfire missile. We're told it was a direct hit, and some people were killed.
The problem is right now, the U.S. government can't say who exactly it killed. Now, it was obvious today when CIA director George Tenet testified on the Hill that he knew about this attack on Monday, and it was interesting to hear his question- -- his answer to the question of what was bin Laden's status.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D), NORTH CAROLINA: Is bin Laden still alive?
GEORGE TENET, DIRECTOR, CIA: Don't know, sir.
EDWARDS: When is the last time we had information indicating he was still alive?
TENET: We -- I'd be happy to talk about all of this in closed session.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCINTYRE: Now, we don't know what Tenet said in that closed session, but we do know it was shortly afterwards that the word began to leak out about the Monday strike, which held the tantalizing possibility that Osama bin Laden might have been killed.
But officials here are downplaying the speculation. They're saying they really don't know at this time who exactly they killed. They've been trying to get U.S. special operations troops on the ground in the region in southeastern Afghanistan near the caves of Tora Bora to make a positive identification, but weather has hampered that effort. They don't want to give out the exact location. They're trying to see if they can get there before the body might be taken away, and we might never know who exactly was killed in this attack by the CIA -- Aaron.
BROWN: OK, so there's a -- there's some speculation, and it's not necessarily followed up by fact that we know. Why do -- why does the government believe that in fact an al Qaeda leader was in that convoy? Simply the size and sophistication of the convoy?
MCINTYRE: Well, it was -- they were tracking the convoy. It was an area where al Qaeda had been operating. It was a person of some obvious prominence surrounded by a lot of security personnel. They were able to tell that much from the television signals sent back by the Predator vehicle.
They're pretty convinced it was a senior al Qaeda leader of some kind, but they say while that's the kind of treatment Osama bin Laden would probably receive, it might also apply to some other al Qaeda leaders as well.
And of course there's always the possibility that the U.S. has made a mistake. After all, it's made a couple of mistakes in this war, one in a recent raid where they killed and took prisoner some people who turned out to be neither al Qaeda or Taliban, and another earlier raid when they ended up hitting some tribal elders who were going to visit the new president, Hamid Karzai.
So everybody here is holding their breath and hoping to find out some information. And at the Pentagon, they're hoping to find out that what they think is perhaps not likely may turn out to be true anyway.
BROWN: Well, we'll just let this percolate for a while and see where it goes. Thank you, Jamie.
Excuse me. Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon tonight.
In any case, if it's confirmed, you can chalk up a victory to the CIA, and the timing, as you can imagine, couldn't be better. As Jamie mentioned, the agency's director was on the Hill today, taking some heat from lawmakers over what the CIA knew and didn't know before September 11, a tragedy often described as the worst intelligence failure since Pearl Harbor.
Now, of course, when the CIA director testifies, there are two chapters. There is the public one and then the really good one.
Bearing that in mind, here's CNN's David Ensor.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TENET: Mr. Chairman, if I can...
DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was the first time the nation's intelligence chief has had to answer questions in public since the attack September 11, and some of the questioning was tough.
SEN. RICHARD SHELBY (R), ALABAMA: All of us, I think, owe the American people an explanation as to why our intelligence community failed to provide adequate warning of such a terrorist attack on our soil.
TENET: When people use the word "failure," failure means no focus, no attention, no discipline. And those were not present in what either we or the FBI did here and around the world, and will continue to work at it.
SEN. PAT ROBERTS (R), KANSAS: What fellows at the Dodge City kaffeeklatch ask me is, if John Walker Lindh could get to talk to Osama bin Laden, why in the heck couldn't the CIA get an agent closer to him?
TENET: Well, I'm not going to do this in open session, but you better tell everybody at the cafe it's not true.
ENSOR: By which Tenet meant, his aides say, that to suggest the CIA has not penetrated al Qaeda is not correct. Officials would not elaborate.
Tenet strongly defended the work of the CIA and U.S. intelligence before and since the attack September 11, saying when it comes to stopping terrorist plots, quote, "You are not going to ever be 100 percent," and warning Americans to expect more.
TENET: We know they'll continue to plan, we know that they will hurt us again. We have to minimize, we have to minimize their ability to do so, because there's no perfection in this business.
ENSOR: In general, Tenet painted a disturbing picture of a dangerous world, saying the danger of war between nuclear-armed India and Pakistan is higher than at any point in 30 years, that Russia and China continue to sell missile and weapons technologies and know-how to Iran and other unreliable nations.
As for Iraq, he said he wouldn't rule out Saddam Hussein helping al Qaeda despite divergent ideologies.
TENET: Tactical cooperation between them is possible, even though Saddam is well aware that such activity would carry serious consequences.
ENSOR (on camera): But the most interesting part of the intelligence briefing most likely took place later, behind closed doors, senators wanting to know more about a major budget increase that the president is proposing for the CIA for covert and clandestine activities.
David Ensor, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Other news tonight, the flights have begun again bringing new detainees to Camp X-Ray at Guantanamo Bay. And as they do, it does seem the questions over their treatment, if not their status, have begun to fade a bit. A lot of that has to do with a concerted effort by the Pentagon to show that the detainees are, at the very least, well fed and well cared for, even that their religious needs are being taken care of.
Until now, that effort was mained -- aimed, rather, mostly at Western eyes, but today the audience changed.
Here again from Guantanamo, CNN's Bob Franken.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FRANKEN (voice-over): Some of the detainees are required to get on litters, where they lie in manacles and are wheeled the 100 yards or so to and from the prison yard and the interrogation sheds. Officials here say it saves time when they can move them that way, and it enhances security.
BRIG. GEN. MICHAEL LEHNERT, TASK FORCE COMMANDER: What we're trying to avoid is some type of an inadvertent action, a reaction, a bolting motion, or anything else either to get away from the escorts or to direct any type of violence towards the escorts. And this is just the easiest and most efficient way to do it.
FRANKEN: But there are only two litters and three interrogation rooms, so some of the inmates have to take an inefficient walk in their manacles.
This time, the tour included a drive without cameras right by the cells, where reporters observed detainees doing very little. This particular media group includes some special members.
Officials here say they are not providing special treatment, but for the first time they were escorting Arabic media, Middle East television, MBC, and Abu Dhabi TV.
ABDULLA SAFIN, ABU DHABI TV: We are interested to know, what are they, what's happening exactly with the interrogation process.
HACENE ZITOUNI, MIDDLE EAST BROADCASTING: The detainees I have seen, they look much healthier, they look more energetic before -- comparing to the pictures that we received 26 days ago.
FRANKEN: Whatever impression the current detainees leave, officials here have built new cells and are preparing for the arrival of a new group, ending a suspension that lasted more than two weeks.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
And the effect that the media trips have had seems to be a very positive one. For instance, Aaron, I was speaking with the Middle Eastern reporters, and one of them in particular had some preconceptions that the prisoners were being mistreated. He said he changed it a little bit after we took that little driving tour.
So media people here, the ones who work for the military, are quite happy. They believe that they're able to show at least to make their case that the treatment is not inhumane.
BROWN: What do we know, Bob, about the interrogations, how people are chosen, what goes on in those rooms that we can't see, anything?
FRANKEN: Well, the -- at first, the first time we saw the stretchers, the litters, it was being carried away from the rooms, and of course that resulted in a lot of bad jokes. We do know that there are any number of agencies taking part. We do know through sources that the FBI is involved, that some of the military investigative agencies are involved. We're told by the general here that they are very careful to make sure that the treatment is appropriate. But the interrogations does not include a reading of anybody's Miranda rights or anything like that. The whole idea, they say, is to interrogate right now for information. They are not seeking prosecution. Still no word on if there will be prosecution and what form it would take.
BROWN: Bob, thank you. Bob Franken in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, tonight again.
John Walker Lindh, who will turn 21 this weekend, will celebrate that milestone birthday in jail, bail denied today as expected. He is a flight risk, said the judge.
But that's just the lead of the story. And from this point on, all stories about Walker Lindh will likely be ferocious battles between the government and his legal team for the high ground in public opinion.
Again now, Susan Candiotti.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CANDIOTTI (voice-over): Ruling he's a danger to the community and has every reason to flee, a federal judge ordered John Walker Lindh will have to remain behind bars pending trial.
Going on the offensive, Walker Lindh's defense team accused prosecutors of overkill.
JAMES BROSNAHAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: In my view, they have brought up the cannon to shoot the mouse.
CANDIOTTI: The government's new firepower was in response to defense claims that Walker Lindh loved his country and meant no harm to Americans. The government introduced e-mails sent by Walker Lindh overseas to his parents back home.
In one, dated February 2000, he encourages his mother to move to England, adding, "I really don't know what your big attachment to America is all about. What has America ever done for anybody?"
In December of that year, he refers to the election of George W. Bush as "your new president," and adds -- quote -- "I'm glad he's not mine."
In another e-mail dated last February, he considers settling in Yemen and says, "I don't really want to see America again."
Months later, the U.S. government argues, Walker Lindh met with bin Laden, received al Qaeda terrorist training, and swore allegiance to jihad after learning bin Laden sent 50 people on suicide missions against the U.S. and Israel.
JOHN ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL: The American people can be confident that Walker Lindh will receive every protection under the Constitution in our courtrooms and that justice will be served.
CANDIOTTI: In court, Walker Lindh's lawyers argued he never fought with al Qaeda, never had anything to do with terrorist activity, that he was only fighting against the Northern Alliance, not the United States.
In court documents, the government revealed part of what Walker Lindh allegedly told military interrogators. He wanted to be a martyr. When questioned about the attack on the U.S.S. "Cole" and September 11, his alleged response, "Incidents like these happen in war."
The defense will try to get all of Walker Lindh's statements to investigators thrown out, saving that battle for another day.
BROSNAHAN: Maybe this is the year of the underdog. Maybe this is the year where all the commentators and everybody have to wait and see what happens in the court.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CANDIOTTI: This day a prosecutor said of Walker Lindh, "He walked the walk and talked the talk of a terrorist."
On Monday, Walker Lindh will get the chance to tell the court how he responds to the government's charges, guilty or not guilty -- Aaron.
BROWN: Susan, you talked at least briefly with his parents today. Learn anything?
CANDIOTTI: Well, just a little bit. They were very hesitant to say much about even characterizing anything about what they had said to their son, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) only to say this, the mom said to me that, "Well, he looks about as well as to be expected." They're allowed two visits a week with him and did see him today.
BROWN: Susan, thank you. Susan Candiotti on John Walker Lindh tonight.
Still to come on NEWSNIGHT, more Enron executives, former executives, set to appear on Capitol Hill tomorrow. Will they talk?
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Vice President Cheney is planning a trip to the Middle East to leave next month, 10-nation tour, in part to shore up the coalition for the war on terror, but also to pay a high-profile visit and take a good look at the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, which has only gotten nastier.
Meanwhile, Israel's prime minister is headed to the States. Ariel Sharon meets with President Bush tomorrow. Mr. Sharon will push to keep the pressure on Yasser Arafat and for the U.S. to open talks with Palestinian leaders other than Arafat.
President Bush was in New York today, continuing to try and shore up support for certain parts of his budget plan, today surrounding himself with some of the heroes of September 11, New York's finest and New York's bravest, the firemen and the police.
The goal was to rally support for $3.5 billion the president wants for local police, firefighters, and emergency workers around the country. But not surprisingly, the big news out of the day involved aid to New York, and something that's become a bit of a controversy for the president.
Today he renewed his pledge for the full $20 billion to help rebuild the city. He said, quote, "When I say 20, I mean 20."
Earlier this week, actually over the weekend, his budget director, Mitch Daniels, accused New York lawmakers of playing, quote, "a money-grubbing game," and said victim relief would come out of the rebuilding fund. Victim relief would be about $5 billion.
After a trip to the woodshed, Daniels today apologized for his comments.
Back in Washington, legislators are getting ready for a handful of former Enron executives to appear before them tomorrow. Now, getting these people to Washington is one thing, and getting them to talk is another. But talk or not, the country will get a look at key players in the Enron mess, including the man described as the Betty Crocker of cooked books.
I wish I'd written that line.
Here's CNN's Jonathan Karl.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED SENATOR: John, could you swear that the -- you will tell -- the testimony you will give this committee is...
JONATHAN KARL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It will be an encore performance for the Fifth Amendment, last seen when Arthur Andersen auditor David Duncan was dragged before the same committee last month.
DAVID DUNCAN, ARTHUR ANDERSEN: On the advice of my counsel, I respectfully decline to answer the questions...
KARL: This time, Andrew Fastow, former Enron chief financial officer, will appear, a blockbuster witness to be sure. But his lawyers have told the committee he will invoke his Fifth Amendment right not to talk. So will three others.
REP. BILLY TAUZIN (R), LOUISIANA: We're not going to give anybody excuse not to come and testify. But if they want to take the Fifth, that's their right. KARL: The Powers report, commissioned by Enron's board, portrays Fastow, who became the chief financial officer at just 36 years old, as the key player in setting up the partnerships that helped inflate Enron's profits by $1 billion. Fastow also refused to talk with the Powers committee, but in a 1999 interview with "CFO Magazine," he boasted about his financial wizardry.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDREW FASTOW, FORMER CHIEF FINANCIAL OFFICER, ENRON: Given the nature of our business, our credit rating is of strategic importance to us. We've had to, I think, be very creative...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KARL: According to the Powers report, Fastow personally profited from partnerships that ultimately led to Enron's demise.
WILLIAM POWERS, ENRON BOARD OF DIRECTORS: We found that Fastow and other employees involved in these partnerships enriched themselves in the aggregate by tens of millions of dollars that they should have never received.
KARL: According to Powers, Fastow received at least $30 million from the partnerships, including one in which he turned a $25,000 investment into $4.5 million in just two months.
But while Fastow won't talk, former CEO Jeffrey Skilling says he will.
TAUZIN: Skilling is apparently anxious to testify. He thinks he's got an explanation for all this, and that he was right to do everything he did, and we were wrong in our interpretation of it. And I'm anxious to hear his explanation.
KARL: Skilling abruptly left Enron last August, saying he wanted to spend more time with his family. Among other things, the committee will want to know what he knew over the past three years while he made $110 million cashing in his Enron stock options.
(on camera): In a bit of prehearing maneuvering, the committee has released confidential memos that show that Skilling never signed off on the controversial partnerships despite repeated attempts to get his signature. The committee's chairman wants to know, if he thought the partnerships were legal, why didn't he sign on the dotted line?
Jonathan Karl, CNN, Capitol Hill.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: And more on Enron on "GREENFIELD AT LARGE," coming up after NEWSNIGHT tonight.
One other Enron note. I guess this is the adding insult to injury part. There was a power outage tonight at Enron's headquarters in Houston. Actually the blackout affected all of downtown Houston for a time. But the energy giant, or what was an energy giant, was especially hard hit because its backup generators failed.
Houston Fire Department had to be called to rescue people trapped in the building's elevators. That part's not funny.
All right. Just ahead, a prisoner's dilemma. The DNA evidence says let him go, the prosecutor says otherwise. Take a look at the case, and more, as NEWSNIGHT continues from New York.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Well, it's one of those stories a little hard to figure. It involves a man sitting in prison tonight, a convicted rapist who at one point confessed to the crimes.
It also involves the science of DNA and results which strongly support the notion the man should not be in prison.
So who is right here? Can the science be wrong? Would anyone confess to a crime he didn't commit?
Some background first from CNN's Gary Tuchman.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Bruce Godschalk has been in prison since 1987, convicted of raping two women who lived in two different apartments in the same suburban Philadelphia apartment complex.
But DNA testing has now been done, and in the first case, the semen samples examined indicate...
DAVID RUDOVSKY, GODSCHALK'S ATTORNEY: Bruce Godschalk was excluded. Examining Bruce Godschalk versus rape number two, Bruce Godschalk was absolutely excluded, and, most importantly, the second finding, the DNA from both rapes was the same person.
TUCHMAN: The Montgomery County prosecutor's office, which had fought the DNA testing for years, received similar results from its own testing. But Godschalk remains in prison, the prosecutor saying he's not sure how significant it is that DNA results from both locations were consistent.
BRUCE CASTOR, DISTRICT ATTORNEY, MONTGOMERY COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA: When forensic experts say consistent, that means they might be. They're not saying that they is -- that it is, that it might be.
TUCHMAN: Two of these attorneys, Barry Scheck and Peter Neufeld, are co-directors of the Innocence Project, which has helped to win exonerations using DNA testing for dozens of convicted criminals.
(on camera): But the prosecutor says he will not be, quote, "kowtowed" by such high-profile attorneys and adds he's most troubled by a detailed taped confession that Godschalk recanted before his trial.
CASTOR: Yes, in the confession you will see that he says he did not ejaculate in the one rape, which is what the victim says.
BARRY SCHECK, INNOCENCE PROJECT: One possible explanation, of course, that has to be investigated is that as Mr. Godschalk contended, details were fed to him by the police.
TUCHMAN: During the confession, Godschalk was asked, "Are you here on your own free will?" "Yes," he answered. "Have you been forced to be here at all?" "No." "How have we treated you?" Godschalk says, "Very well."
The defense says it was all coerced.
RUDOVSKY: The state has already taken 15 years of an innocent person's life. He should be released immediately.
TUCHMAN: The prosecutor says he'll keep Godschalk incarcerated for now and will rely on a judge to sort this out.
Gary Tuchman, CNN, Philadelphia.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: We met Barry Scheck in the piece. Joining us now, his partner, at the Innocence Project, Peter Neufeld. Nice to see you.
PETER NEUFELD, BRUCE GODSCHALK'S ATTORNEY: Nice to see you.
BROWN: The prosecutor says the DNA shows that it's not consistent with him, may -- but doesn't say it absolutely couldn't be. So what are the odds that the DNA testing is wrong?
NEUFELD: Well, here's the report from the Cellmark Laboratory, which is the laboratory hired by the DA. And it says very specifically, "Bruce Donald Godschalk is excluded as the source of the DNA from the rape sample." And it says the same thing about the second rape as well.
BROWN: And just -- (UNINTELLIGIBLE) that, that report is the report commissioned not by you all...
NEUFELD: Not by our laboratory, that's the report commissioned by the district attorney's laboratory. And I might add it's a laboratory that the DA relies on routinely to make out cases when they want to prosecute somebody because there's a DNA match.
BROWN: Do you think the guy's -- I'm -- I don't -- I don't think I've ever asked this question this way. Do you think the prosecutor's just messing with you guys? You are high-profile guys. Everybody knows you.
NEUFELD: I don't think it's that. I think it's actually an illustration of how some people have not allowed the law and their own judgment to catch up with science. One of the things that we've learned through the first 100 DNA exonerations is what the causes are of wrongful convictions.
And in 20 percent of those DNA exonerations, people gave false confessions, just like Bruce Godschalk.
BROWN: Why do they do that?
NEUFELD: It's a great question. It is obviously counterintuitive. I would never admit to a crime I didn't commit.
BROWN: Right.
NEUFELD: We all think that. But the beauty of DNA is, it proves to a moral certainty that that is in fact what happens.
We had another case involving a gentleman named Earl Washington, who was on death row in Virginia, 17 years on death row, signed a false confession, it wasn't tape recorded, but it's the same thing.
You know, they use wonderful interrogation methods, and very often those interrogation methods get guilty people to finally come free and confess to a crime. But the interrogation methods, the bad cop/good cop, the psychological warfare, what have you, are so effective that sometimes they also get innocent people to confess.
It's kind of like those nets that are sent out to the sea to catch all the tuna, but sometimes they get the dolphin. Bruce Godschalk is one of those dolphins.
BROWN: But you can understand that there are people watching this who go, For the life of me, you could give me a million dollars, you could do -- and I would never confess to something that I knew was going to put me in prison for 10, 20, 30, 40 years.
NEUFELD: We had a case in Texas where the fellow, Chris Ochoa, not only confessed, then plead guilty. And then years later the prosecutor, on his own, found the real perpetrator. He confessed. And he even agreed that Bruce -- that Mr. Ochoa was innocent.
So these things happen. Unfortunately, this particular prosecutor is unwilling to accept the advances of technology. What's extraordinary is, he's now questioning the reliability of his own laboratory's work. You know, if he's that serious about it, perhaps he should not use that same laboratory now to make out all these other prosecutions. He's not saying that, and that's unfair, because he's being a hypocrite.
BROWN: Fifteen seconds or so, where do you go from here with this?
NEUFELD: Well, we're back in court with the state court judge. Hopefully he'll do the right thing. We need a statute in Pennsylvania, we need a statute giving people access to DNA testing. Bruce fought seven years to get this result. He didn't have to spend those seven years in prison.
BROWN: There's -- there's -- actually, you ought to come back one night, because there's a very good issue, I think, developing between how the courts look now at post-conviction DNA testing and whether someone's entitled to it and not, and we'll save that for another night.
NEUFELD: I'd love to.
BROWN: Thank you, Peter. It's nice to see you.
NEUFELD: Thank you.
BROWN: When we come back, we'll meet a journalist who says we won't conquer terrorism unless we stop the drug trade in Central Asia.
This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: We talked about this a bit earlier in the week on NEWSNIGHT. You might have seen the ads during the Super Bowl on Sunday, a White House ad campaign that linked drugs to terror. Essentially the message was, if you do drugs, you support terrorism indirectly.
We can safely say this ad campaign, at its core, at least, is not a figment of some drug czar's imagination or exaggeration. The connection between the heroin trade, at least, in Central Asia and terrorism is the focus of an exhaustive article called "Afghanistan's Deadly Habit." You can find it in the March issue of "Vanity Fair," or you can just hang around for a while, and we'll talk about it with Maureen Orth, who wrote it.
Nice to see you.
MAUREEN ORTH, SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT, "VANITY FAIR": Thank you.
BROWN: Let's quickly do the link between drugs and terror.
ORTH: Right. Well, in order for -- you cannot eliminate terrorism unless you eliminate drugs. For example, in Afghanistan, that was -- drugs and heroin were the only crop that allowed Afghanistan to be in the global economy.
But the heroin crop in Afghanistan -- or the poppy crop that became heroin in Afghanistan allowed terrorists to be paid to buy weapons, to buy food, to buy computers, to exist.
BROWN: Are they growing the poppies?
ORTH: Yes. I mean, the Taliban taxed the whole poppy crop. Basically, the farmers of Afghanistan are growing the crop, but then the traffickers come in and they front them the money, a lot of times, to grow it, and then it starts on its long journey.
And the irony is, is that Afghanistan makes the least amount money on the crop. As soon as it hits the border, it starts increasing its value exponentially. And so it's in the interests of a lot of powerful people in the bordering countries and in Europe that this topic exists. BROWN: There's a quote early in the article that goes roughly, You have to smuggle, it is the only -- or you have to smuggle or die, it's the only way to live.
ORTH: Right.
BROWN: Essentially, that is the economy, not just in Afghanistan but in a lot of the countries around it.
ORTH: Yes, because the countries like Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, a lot of these Central Asian countries were the most poverty-ridden countries of the old Soviet Union. And in Tajikistan, where I spent most of my time, for example, the capital growth rate is 49 percent less than it even was under the Soviet Union. They have a 54 percent rate of unemployment.
These people are absolutely poverty stricken. And so the one cash crop that they can depend on is heroin.
BROWN: So this is no different in that sense from Colombia or Peru...
ORTH: No.
BROWN: ... or a lot of countries where, if you're a farmer, you can make some -- not get rich, but you can make some money growing illegal drugs, cocaine...
ORTH: Right.
BROWN: ... poppies, what have you.
ORTH: That's right.
BROWN: How do you combat that?
ORTH: Well, you have to introduce alternatives. And for example, in Afghanistan right now, we have a unique opportunity, because we're going in there with reconstruction money, and we're offering them -- we're supposed to be offering them an alternative to this crop.
So -- excuse me -- we can, in fact, change, because it's against the Muslim religion to take drugs, and they know it's wrong to grow them. So we have a unique opportunity right now to try to get them to plant something else.
In the U.N., Office of Drug Control Policy has offered these programs in the past, but donor countries really haven't been interested, and they have had some degree of success.
BROWN: Let me be the cynic here that (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
ORTH: Yes.
BROWN: Go ahead, grab some water. ORTH: I'm sorry.
BROWN: Don't, don't, don't, don't be shy about that.
As long as people want them, as long as there is a demand side...
ORTH: Right.
BROWN: ... there will be a supply.
ORTH: I believe that to be true. And I think that one of the things that they told me was, the reason this is such a great crop is because it doesn't spoil, and there's always a demand.
And it's the same thing as the Colombian heroin coming to this country. We only use about $100 million worth of the Afghan crop, and most of the money -- and most of our crop comes from our heroin comes from Colombia. And in fact, I learned in the -- in this article that Colombia learned how to grow poppies from Afghanis and Pakistanis.
So it's a worldwide plague that we have got to address.
BROWN: It's a long and terrific article. It's in this -- I guess it's this month, March, go figure that, it's the magazine world...
ORTH: It's just coming out now.
BROWN: That's the way to do it, "Vanity Fair." It's nice to meet you.
ORTH: Thank you.
BROWN: I admire your work a lot.
ORTH: Thank you.
BROWN: Thank you for coming in.
Up next, I admire Keith Olbermann's work a lot too. E-mail from hell is on Keith's plate. We're right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Time for one of those annoying personal observations. The longest I've ever had one job in my life is 10 years. So I'm pretty impressed when I hear about someone who's kept the same job for 50 years. At the very least, someone who does that ought to get a gold watch or something like that.
Of course, if you're the queen of England and you've been in that job for 50 years, you don't really need a gold watch. You have someone to carry your watch. So you get an army to fire off a bunch of guns in your honor. Among other things, fire.
Wanted the guns, we got the band. That happens in life. The queen's Golden Jubilee is a chance for historians to scour the records looking for key and important moments in her reign, a chance to talk about all the good she's done, the dinners she's thrown, and that always surprising royal wit.
It was not that long ago that we had a royal moment of our own on the program, a visit from the queen. And while we would never say this visit was the most important thing the queen has done in 50 years, we're pretty sure it is right up there, top five, top 10, maybe.
So in honor of her majesty, our first-ever NEWSNIGHT flashback.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(voice-over): Today the queen, greeted by our esteemed boss, Walter Isaacson, opened the new CNN bureau in London. It's a really nice building, and the queen, decked out in a fine green suit and matching hat, was escorted around by a lot of CNN executives who had been briefed on how one acts when the queen is in the building.
For example, they were told to address the queen as "ma'am," which they were told rhymes with "ham." I am not making this up. These are news people. They needed the briefing.
One thing they were apparently not told is what to do with their hands, but they all seemed to agree that hands should dangle in front of the body clasped in a most uncomfortable-looking way.
We, of course, are honored that the queen took time out of her busy day to open our bureau, and equally glad that Mr. Isaacson is still in London tonight watching the BBC and not us.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
The first-ever NEWSNIGHT flashback.
Now we have something we've taken to calling around the office as the e-mail from hell. I've said it before and I mean it, I love getting the e-mails that we always get. I like to read them and respond to them.
Now, my capable assistant, Molly Levinson, cringes every time I respond with the otherwise super secret Aaron Brown e-mail address, the private one, the personal one, the one you wouldn't want everyone on the planet to have.
And that brings us to the e-mail from hell. Contributor Keith Olbermann joins us tonight. Keith?
KEITH OLBERMANN, NEWSNIGHT CONTRIBUTOR: Good evening, Aaron.
We have had e-mail, as of course you know, since the '70s, and it has been commonplace since the mid-'90s. And you can still hit the wrong button and make a fool out of yourself to vast numbers of people simultaneously rather than just one at a time. And no one knows this better now than a worker at Brill Journalism Enterprises who tried to send out a simple six-line memo about her company's change of address to everybody on its e-mail list. Instead, she wound up sending both the memo and the list, effectively making public some 580 separate, private e-mail addresses, including a remarkable number belonging to political and media heavyweights, most of whom, unlike Mr. Brown, desperately try to keep their e-mail addresses secret.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AOL MAILHOST: You've got mail.
OLBERMANN (voice-over): Among the addresses revealed, those of the daughter of a former vice president, the former national security adviser to that vice president's boss, and the former independent counsel who tried to make that vice president's boss a former president.
There's also the former president of CBS News, two former presidents of NBC News, the current president of CBS News, and we've got the e-mail for the former host of "CROSSFIRE" here in CNN and the former attorney for O.J. Simpson.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARRY SCHECK, O.J. SIMPSON'S ATTORNEY: Question, were there blood drops next to those shoe prints?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: Wait, there's more. The publisher of "The New York Times," the anchor of "The CBS Evening News"...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "CBS EVENING NEWS")
DAN RATHER, CBS NEWS: Good evening.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: ... the television writer of "The Washington Post," Sharon Stone's husband, Michael Jordan's boss, and Ben Stein from "Win Ben Stein's Money."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "BEN STEIN'S MONEY")
BEN STEIN, HOST: I know it's late. I know you're weary. I know your plans don't include me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: There are 24 different addresses for guys named David, stars or executives of 16 different media organizations, and no less than four addresses for two figures from the Lewinsky scandal.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) LUCIANNE GOLDBERG, LITERARY AGENT: Linda's life is going to be changed. Mine's going to be changed. And God help this poor little Monica.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: Also the e-mail address for the owner of Brill's. And for the 90th Street Pharmacy in New York, and for Walter Isaacson, who happens to be my boss and Aaron's.
AOL MAILHOST: Goodbye.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
OLBERMANN: 'Tis night, apparently. And we erased that last one immediately, sir.
Perhaps most ominous of all 580 addresses, however, is the one listed alphabetically between that for one Aaron Studd and the address for the pollster Frank Luntz. This particular entry is noted simply as, quote, "Everyone," unquote. And ever since the day I received my copy of this e-mail, I have been genuinely and physically afraid, Aaron, to check that one out.
BROWN: Thank you, Keith.
OLBERMANN: Sure.
BROWN: Sort of hurt mine isn't on there.
Segment Seven when we come right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Finally from us tonight, someone once wrote that to live is to remember and to remember is to live. And this is a story about one way to help those suffering from Alzheimer's, help them reconnect with a simpler world, their world from decades past.
We knew we wanted to do a story on this subject for President Reagan's 91st birthday, and this story was brought to us by our Beth Nissen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BETH NISSEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Like most people with Alzheimer's or dementia, Rose Barst (ph), age 94, has disabling memory loss. Over the past few years, she forgot where she lived, forgot how to live on her own.
NANCY STRAUS, DAUGHTER: She stopped eating herself, and her language -- she stopped talking. She really did. She would just be, Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da.
NISSEN: There is no cure for Alzheimer's and dementia, but Rose Nell (ph) lives in a showcase for one of the most promising treatments, environmental therapy.
This is the Village, an assisted living facility in New Canaan, Connecticut, designed to orient, engage, and calm those with age- related memory loss. The heart of the Village is a replica of a small-town main street from the late 1950s.
JEREMY VICKERS, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, THE VILLAGE-WAVENY CARE CENTER: Alzheimer's disease causes people to lose recent memory, yet they retain distant memory, and so therefore it was very important that the facades represent that which they might remember from 40 years ago.
NISSEN: Forty years ago, when most of the residents here were in the prime of life, working, raising families. Dying memories of those times can be sparked by the sight of lace curtains, an old-fashioned barber pole, a general store.
JOHN ZEISEL, PRESIDENT, HEARTHSTONE ALZHEIMER CARE: People, as we grow older, remember stories. The environment can give people access to those stories.
NISSEN: John Zeisel teaches a course at Harvard on environmental therapy and designing for those with dementia.
ZEISEL: Neuroscientists and neuropsychologists believe now that there are profound memories that are hardwired in the brain.
NISSEN: Memories associated with common gathering places, especially the kitchen. On Main Street, there's an ice cream parlor that doubles as a communal bake shop. The rituals and aromas of baking often help residents make connections, associations.
Music also triggers memory of song lyrics, of past times.
ZEISEL: People with Alzheimer's, even at the last stages of the disease, will tap their foot to music. Music is one of those profound memories that people understand almost forever.
NISSEN: While Main Street is designed to stimulate, the living quarters of the village are designed to soothe, calm. Many with memory loss are agitated, confused about where they are, who they are. Fireplaces, even virtual ones, encourage rest and reflection, can lower patients' blood pressure, raise their level of functioning.
ROSE BARST: We're satisfied with everything.
NISSEN (on camera): You're satisfied with everything.
(voice-over): After only two months here, Rose, says her daughter, is much improved, feeding herself, interacting, talking.
BARST: This is my baby.
STRAUS: No question that she's healthier, she's stronger, she's walking, she's out of that wheelchair walking. She's dancing. And you can see a light back in her eyes. And I've just seen somebody come alive.
NISSEN: The Village is expensive. It costs as much as $70,000 a year per resident. But it doesn't take Village to get some of its benefits. Key ideas are low cost, simple. In Rose's room, her bed is angled so that she can see out a window, see time of day, time of year. She has a clear view and path to the bathroom. And Rose can easily see pictures of herself and her family, faded photos that help counter the fade of memory.
ZEISEL: All the major diseases of the world, from mental illness to AIDS to dementia, have all been treated in terms of helping people live better lives. We can do that for people with Alzheimer's. It can be done.
NISSEN: Beth Nissen, CNN, New Canaan, Connecticut.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: We'll see you tomorrow at 10:00. Good night.
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