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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown

Andrea Yates Psychiatrist Testifies; Violence and Retaliation Intensifies in Middle East

Aired March 04, 2002 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: All right, thanks a lot, Larry. Well, good evening to you. Aaron is off tonight, as Larry said, and we saw two powerful images today from the War on Terrorism we want to show you that couldn't be more different.

From San Diego, there was a hero's welcome for thousands of marines and navy personnel back home safe and sound, after serving in the early days of Operation Enduring Freedom.

And from Afghanistan, mountains covered in snow, with huge plumes of smoke rising up, a stark reminder of the danger facing U.S. troops still there. There are, at least, eight families though scattered across this nation who won't be able to welcome their loved ones home with cheers and flowers and champagne.

The last few days have been the deadliest days so far for the U.S., a good reminder, a grim one, that the War on Terrorism is as treacherous as it was on that first day back in October when the war began, maybe even more treacherous.

Let's take a jump start into the week, around the globe. So on now to the whip around the world. That bring us first to Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon. Jamie, what's the headline there?

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Fredricka, as you said it is the deadliest day since the war began, but still the number of deaths by accident still outnumber the deaths by friendly fire by almost two to one, and the U.S. is remaining undeterred. It has a message for the Taliban, surrender or die.

WHITFIELD: All right, thanks Jamie. Now a look at what's happening on the ground in Ghazni, Afghanistan. Nic Robertson is there. Nic, what's the headline?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Fredricka, we're 50 miles from the front line. We can see the bombers and other aircraft traveling in the direction of the mountains. We can see across these high, elevated plains the mountains where that offensive is currently underway. Throughout the night, we've heard surveillance aircraft and yesterday we could see those plumes of smoke coming off the mountain. It appears as if the battle and the bombing is still underway just south of Gardez. Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: The latest now from the Middle East, Jerrold Kessel is in Jerusalem. Jerrold, the headline there?

JERROLD KESSEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Fredricka, late news, a Palestinian gunman opening fire at a late night Tel Aviv restaurant, killing three Israelis before being shot himself, but the headline is that a gloom and doom reality setting in here as a cycle of battering threatens to engulf Israelis and Palestinians. Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right. Thanks, Jerrold. More developments from the Yates trial back here at home in Houston. David Mattingly covered that tonight. David, the headline.

DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The Day 11 of the Andrea Yates capital murder trial here in Houston, Texas, and defense attorneys today strongly challenged the psychiatrist who last treated Andrea Yates two days before she killed her children, the same psychiatrist who said he could find no evidence of psychosis. Back to you in New York.

WHITFIELD: All right, thanks David, and back to all of you in a minute. But first ahead on NEWSNIGHT, a preview of Primary Day in California, tomorrow some fascinating races out there, one involving a rather familiar name, Condit.

Also, we'll hear from actor Christopher Reeve. The debate over stem cell research is about to flare up again in Washington. He'll be front and center in Senate testimony tomorrow.

And we're anxious to bring to you tonight, the first of a new segment we're calling Rants and Raves, and who better to kick it off than one woman who does both with a lot of flare. Legendary journalist Helen Thomas holds court at her favorite Washington restaurant.

Plus contributor Keith Olberman on New York at its strangest, don't ask him, he just lives here. Well a lot to get to tonight. We begin with the war and yes it is still a war. For a long time, the experts have been warning that mopping up is a volatile part of any conflict, and it could be the toughest part of this one.

The third day of intense fighting couldn't be taking place in a worse terrain, harsher conditions, or against a more determined enemy. It's all adding up to lots of risks and American casualties. Once again, here's CNN Chief Pentagon Correspondent, Jamie McIntyre.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE: The highest U.S. combat death toll of the war came when a Special Operations helicopter, like this one, returned to a hostile landing zone to retrieve the body of a soldier killed earlier.

GENERAL TOMMY FRANKS, COMMANDER, U. S. CENTRAL COMMAND: The forces on that helicopter got off the helicopter and immediately came in contact with the enemy force and that is the place that the casualties came from.

MCINTYRE: Six soldiers were killed, 11 wounded in the fire fight. The first helicopter had been hit by a rocket-propelled grenade, but was able to crash land safely a half mile away, only to discover one crew member was missing.

FRANKS: The helicopter was, in fact, struck but was still flyable. As the pilot lifted the helicopter off, I believe one crew member may have fallen from the helicopter. I do not believe that that was recognized immediately.

MCINTYRE: U.S. troops eventually secured the area, and rescued the survivors, but more casualties are expected, especially with U.S. Apache gun ships and A-10 assault planes conducting risky low-level attacks.

The four-star general in charge says the combat deaths are to be expected, as the war enters a more dangerous phase in which air power alone can't get the job done.

FRANKS: The sure way to do work against the enemy is to put people on the ground and that's what we've done in this case.

MCINTYRE: The mission in the snowy mountains has been dubbed Operation Anaconda, after the tropical snake that kills its prey by suffocating it in its coils. Some 2,000 troops, including more than 1,000 U.S., 800 Afghan and 200 coalition forces have surrounded a 60 to 70 square mile area, and have killed as many as half of the 400 or so al Qaeda troops believed holed up there in small groups.

GENERAL RICHARD MYERS, CHAIRMAN, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: Again in this operation we knew that the al Qaeda and their supporters there would have two choices, to run or stay and fight. It seems they have chosen to stay and to fight to the last, and we hope to accommodate them.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE: Asked if the U.S. military was surprised by the ferocity of the al Qaeda resistance, senior Pentagon officials told CNN that was not the case. However, two senior military officers, including the Joint Chiefs Chairman, made a point of saying it wouldn't be appropriate for them to second guess a commander on the scene, noting that senior officials here had been fully briefed on General Franks' plan and had signed off on it. Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: Jamie, are Pentagon officials commenting at all on whether there's any evidence that perhaps bin Laden may be in that area?

MCINTYRE: Well, you know, in the past the Pentagon has pointed to the fact that al Qaeda troops were fighting to the death as a possible indication that a high level leader could be there, such as bin Laden. In this case, I'm told by a senior Pentagon official, that they have no evidence bin Laden is in this 60-mile area that they are looking at. However, no one has ruled that out, and as one official here said, we can always hope.

WHITFIELD: All right, thanks very much, Jamie McIntyre from the Pentagon. Now American troops, along with Afghan fighters are pushing the limit in high elevations and consequently thin air.

To get a better read on the situation in the mountains, let's go back to Ghazni and CNN's Nic Robertson, who joins us by videophone.

ROBERTSON: Fredricka, it is clear from the air activity we can see here about 50 miles from the front line, and I can look across the horizon to my east there and see the mountain line where the offensive is underway. It is clear from the air activity that there is a lot of, that the offensive is still underway. Yesterday we saw AWACs and B-52 bombers. We have heard drones, the unmanned surveillance aircraft, flying around this area quite low to the ground last night.

What we are learning from regional politicians here is that they are concerned in this province that neighbors, Gardez, Pachtia Province, that they believe that al Qaeda members are also regrouping within their province, 30 miles south of here.

One regional leader told us that in that town, that his forces have come under attack from al Qaeda members, that they returned fire and he was appealing for help from the international community to fight off those al Qaeda forces. He is concerned that as the warmer weather returns here, that the al Qaeda, who have spent the last three months in the winter regrouping, will begin to launch a guerrilla offensive.

Certainly the elevation is high. It is extremely cold here, but if you look across to those mountains, yesterday there were plumes of smoke rising off the top of this. This time, we don't see that so far today, but certainly a lot of air activity. Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: And, Nic, with the colder temperatures and the thin air, doesn't that call for a greater risk of any U.S. warplanes or helicopters in the area? At some point, they wouldn't be able to fly, isn't that right?

ROBERTSON: Certainly elevations do enter into the calculations for fuel, for weight, for takeoff, fuel consumption by aircraft, and certainly that will obviously be something born in mind. These elevations, they're not that extreme. What is difficult, however, is spending the overnight period.

During the day, it gets quite warm, but at night it is extremely cold. The troops perhaps left on the ground overnight, it is very (UNINTELLIGIBLE), but that will also be the same for the al Qaeda forces in those mountains. So both forces within the battle will be exposed to those elements.

The aircraft that were being used Apaches and Chinook helicopters, well able to operate at those elevations and weather. Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right, thanks very much, Nic Robertson from Ghazni on the videophone there.

Earlier tonight on CNN, our next guest said, "this is the type of battle where the enemy can come at you from any direction." Retired General and CNN consultant David Grange joins us tonight from just outside Chicago. Thanks for joining us, General.

GENERAL DAVID GRANGE, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Good evening.

WHITFIELD: You, yourself, say they can come at any direction. Today, it was a case in point. Apparently, these Afghan forces, the Taliban rather Afghan forces and al Qaeda, have anti-aircraft missiles and stingers. What are the vulnerabilities that the U.S. forces, along with the Afghan forces, are facing?

GRANGE: Well, you know, you talk about the anti-aircraft weaponry, using stingers or other type of maybe Russian made surface- to-air missiles, very dangerous to our aircraft, especially low flying aircraft.

But you know, today one of the aircraft that was reported was struck with an RPG, a rocket-propelled grenade launcher. That type of weapon is a close-in weapon, less than 300 meters probably that hit that helicopter.

So that's close fighting, and helicopters are very vulnerable in this type of terrain, but they're also great, give great advantages of putting troops in areas across mine fields, across ridge lines, in places that would take a long time to move. So it's worth the use of the helicopters.

WHITFIELD: The U.S. strategy now being dubbed Anaconda, the operation being called Anaconda, I've heard many experts say that this, and qualify this as now a guerrilla war. Is there any way to fight this kind of guerrilla war without having U.S. soldiers on the ground?

GRANGE: No. You must have U.S. and coalition forces besides the Afghan fighters involved, mainly to: 1) report what you see as an American fighting force, what you see on the ground, because some of the information we get from our proxy forces we can rely on, some we can not because there's a lot of deals made. There are a lot of unknown partnerships and it's very hard to sort out the intelligence. So we have to put people on the ground, just like we did in many other conflicts.

WHITFIELD: So do we see then, in your opinion that the U.S. can't afford not to put more forces on the ground? It might be the case that we're going to start to see more deployments?

GRANGE: I think that you will see more U.S. forces on the ground. Right now, we're very fortunate to have the 10th Mountain Division, the 101st Airborne Division type troopers involved in this kind of fighting. The altitude is no problem for them. Mountain fighting is no problem for them. It's a challenge, but nothing that they can not overcome. And so, we have good forces there now. We're definitely will probably need some more.

WHITFIELD: All right. General David Grange, thanks very much for joining us this evening.

GRANGE: Thank you. WHITFIELD: There is no shortage of grim news tonight, the latest violence in the Middle East, when we come back, plus a look at some plans for peace. This is NEWSNIGHT from New York.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: The Middle East now and another attack to tell you about, this one at a restaurant in Tel Aviv. Police say a Palestinian gunmen opened fire, at least a dozen casualties so far. It starts this week out the same way last one ended, with attacks and reprisals and revenge and funerals. Close to 40 Israelis and Palestinians have been killed in the last three days, perhaps more by night's end. That's out of a population of just about nine million people.

In a country the size of the U.S., it would add up to a death toll of 1,100 in all. On that note, it's back to Jerusalem now and CNN's Jerrold Kessel.

KESSEL: Fredricka, it was just about 2:15 a.m. and late night diners at this restaurant in Tel Aviv were also dancing. There was a party going on when the gunman struck, and a Palestinian gunman began shooting from just outside the restaurant, also tossed a hand grenade, which didn't apparently explode, had a belt of explosives around him, didn't manage to let them off.

But he did shoot and kill three Israelis and wound some 30 before he, himself, was shot dead, all by a policeman, all by one the diners who had a pistol with him, went outside grappled with the gunmen, was knifed by the gunmen before managing to shoot him. Absolute pandemonium there, this the latest in a Palestinian, the latest attack in the heart of an Israeli city, police searching for what they believe the man who might have brought the gunman to this point in south Tel Aviv.

Normally a very crowded area, but because it was so late at night, only in the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and the neighboring restaurant there were people there. Perhaps the casualty toll would have been much, much higher. But the gunman did get in and this was the mood and atmosphere described by one eyewitness, who was inside the restaurant when the gunman struck.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All I saw was people in a panic, everybody screaming. I jumped under the table. I mean everybody was holding on for dear life, men and women holding onto each other for dear life.

KESSEL: Holding on for dear life, but that is becoming more and more of the grim reality here is that you could say it used to be called a cycle of violence, cycle of battering really over the last few days. Israelis battering Palestinians, Palestinians battering Israelis, and yesterday again Israel after this coming to two major attacks over the weekend, which cost 22 Israeli lives, suicide bombing in Jerusalem, attack on a military checkpoint in the West Bank.

Yesterday, the Israelis through the day, killing some 17 Palestinians in a series of strikes in what Prime Minister Sharon calls this war against the terror war launched on Israel. Palestinians see it the other way, the Israelis being the aggressor.

But either way, the Israelis were in very much of an offensive mood through the day and it ended in the night with an attack by F-16 fighters on a Palestinian police station, the major Palestinian headquarters in the town of Bethlehem, where tow missiles struck late in the night.

The Palestinians say no casualties because they had evacuated that major police post before the Israelis struck. But really, this is an ongoing battering in the two directions and a sense of gloom and doom reality setting in, as the Israelis and Palestinians already engulfed in another round and preparing to go another round and another round with no way and no indication of how this might stop. Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right thanks very much, Jerrold Kessel, reporting from Jerusalem this evening. No doubt this makes tomorrow's peace talks or the beginning of the peace talks very difficult, and now of course, will anyone come to the table?

The latest invitation comes from Hosni Mubarak, the President of Egypt. He spoke tonight with CNN's Wolf Blitzer. Mubarak said he'd be happy to host a summit between Yasser Arafat and Ariel Sharon, but so far, no RSVPs. The Palestinians say they appreciate the effort, but Sharon's the problem here.

The Israelis say it's an illusion to think talks alone will end the crisis. President Mubarak meets tomorrow with President Bush and they're expected to talk about the Palestinians and Israelis, but also about the rise of Islamic extremism in the region, a touchy subject for Mr. Mubarak.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HOSNI MUBARAK, PRESIDENT OF EGYPT: We have dealt with these kind of people in our country, and now they are in the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) of the country now. We are doing much more in the past 20 years, just reforming economy, giving chance for young people to work, to avoid all these extremists. But these fundamentalists are in so many countries. Those who commit a crime in our country, they fled away, and they were given asylum to many European countries and in the United States.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: Here to talk about the region, the conflict, and the ways out if any exist at this point, TIME Magazine's Lisa Beyer. For nine years, she covered the region as the magazine's Jerusalem bureau chief. She's now foreign editor for TIME, and welcome to NEWSNIGHT this evening.

LISA BEYER, TIME: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: All right, Mubarak has already said, "hey, I will host a meeting between you, Ariel Sharon, and Yasser Arafat." Sharon says, "I'm not coming to a meeting, not unless Arafat makes some promise to end the violence."

BEYER: Right.

WHITFIELD: So where does it stand?

BEYER: Well, I don't think there's any shortage of locations where you might have a summit or individuals who would be willing to host one. I think that basically on neither side, neither the Israeli side nor the Palestinian side, not on the level of leadership and not on a popular level, really want to make peace right now. They're both in fighting moods.

You see it every day in the newspapers, another assault on the part of the Israelis, another attack on the part of the Palestinians. We're just not at a point yet, when the peace process or the process in the past has gotten to a point where progress could be made, it got there organically when both sides were ready to say, "OK let's make some compromises and stop fighting each other." That's not the attitude in either place now.

WHITFIELD: You've been covering this for a long time. Doesn't it seem though like a broken record? It always seems like, you know, there are talks of yet one more peace plan, yet one more initiative to bring talks together, and somebody always kind of folds their arms and says, "I'm not willing to come to the table and here are the conditions why?"

BEYER: Well, I'm one of the many journalists who got it wrong over the last decade, and thought that there was an inevitability to the peace process, and that we were really headed to a resolution of this problem. I knew I would be in Jerusalem through the year 2000, and I always thought I would see the beginning of a Palestinian state, and essentially the problem well on its way to resolution.

I was wrong. We were all wrong. But I don't think that our wrongness, that history turned out that was, means that this problem is irreconcilable. I think actually that in the Camp David peace talks of two years ago, when the Israelis made a pretty serious offer for a resolution of the problem, that didn't necessarily have to be the end of it.

Yasser Arafat decided for his own reasons, for the type of legacy that he wanted to have, that he didn't want to essentially make the tough compromises on his watch. He wanted them to be made by someone else. He wanted to go down in history as a fighter, as a revolutionary, and that's how we've wound up in this situation.

WHITFIELD: When you were there in talking to the Palestinians on the street, Israelis on the street, what did they convey to you would need to take place that they needed in order to promote some peace?

BEYER: Years ago I asked a friend of mine, an Israeli who was ranting about the Palestinians. I said, "what is it you want from them?" And he said to me, "I want them to stop hating us." And I said, "well, if you want them to stop hating you, you've got to take your boot off of their necks." And he says, "yes, you're right. But then first they have to uncle. They have to say that when I let them up off the table, they're going to stop fighting me."

And that's essentially the peace process. The Israelis have got to stop occupying the Palestinians. The Palestinians have got to stop fighting the Israelis and recognize that they have a right to live alongside a Palestinian state.

WHITFIELD: And if indeed the U.S. does become intimately involved in this next wave, it's been said that many Palestinians feel like they just can't trust the U.S. because it already seems as though the U.S. is taking sides with the Israelis.

BEYER: Well, the U.S. does of course take sides with the Israelis, but the Palestinians also recognize, and certainly the leadership recognizes that their only hope is in Washington, that Washington is really the only party that can bring any pressure to bear on the Israelis.

And since the Israelis are the far more powerful party, the only hope that the Palestinians have of a resolution that suits their needs at all is if a power that's more powerful than Israel comes in at least to try to mediate, if not to do so in a perfectly fair way.

WHITFIELD: All right, thanks very much, Lisa Beyer, TIME Magazine.

BEYER: You're welcome.

WHITFIELD: It's going to be a long haul, as usual, isn't it? Well coming up next, primary politics California style. NEWSNIGHT for Monday night.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: The countdown is on. Tomorrow is Primary Day in California. Safe to say it's never a dull moment there, giving lots of fodder for the rest of the country. No exception this time around, just a few highlights here. You got a Congressman, Gary Condit, who is politically radioactive.

And then in the race for governor, there's the former mayor of Los Angeles Richard Riordan. He was the heavy favorite on the Republican side, that is until he started campaigning, and against his once best friend no less.

We'll have a discussion about both political races and just a bit more on that in a moment. But first, CNN Senior Analyst Jeff Greenfield on the governor's race.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SENIOR ANALYST (voice over): This is Dick Riordan, the former Los Angeles Mayor, everyone was sure would win the Republican gubernatorial primary.

And this is Bill Simon, businessman, political novice, now even with or even leading Riordan in the latest polls. In part, this is a story of an over confident Riordan, who ignored the conservative base of California's Republican Party. But his campaign theme, "I'm a Republican who can actually win" underscores one of the most striking shifts in recent American political life.

GREENFIELD (on camera): It's a shift almost as seismic as the earthquakes that shake California's ground. This state, that seemed reasonably reliably Republican just a decade or so ago, is now a state where Republicans might well be labeled an endangered species.

GREENFIELD (voice over): Fact, after going Republican in six straight Presidential elections, GOP candidates have been virtually non competitive. George W. Bush spent $12 million out there, and lost to Al Gore by more than a million votes.

Fact, from 1942 to 1998, only Democrats Pat and Jerry Brown were elected governor. But four years ago, Gray Davis won in a landslide.

Fact, both United States Senators are Democrats, the Congressional delegation and the state legislature are both heavily Democratic. Only one statewide official is Republican. So, what happened?

GREENFIELD (on camera): Almost every account of what happened to California's Republicans begins here in the Latino community. Back in 1994, a strategy that helped trigger a Republican victory, turned out to have enormous and disastrous consequences.

ANNOUNCER: They keep coming, two million illegal immigrants in California.

GREENFIELD (voice over): Back then Governor Pete Wilson captured an anti-immigrant wave with commercials like these, and by backing an anti-immigration policy. That also pushed the politically potent Latino community solidly into Democratic ranks.

But that's just one reason. Another say both Democrat and Republican strategists, is that while Democrats were broadening their appeal, Republicans were narrowing theirs.

DAN SCHNUR, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: In the late 1990s, Republicans began doing what Democrats had done through the 1970s and '80s, which is running candidates to satisfy their base, their most loyal voters, as opposed to candidates that could reach out beyond that base.

BILL CARRICK, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I think the activist Republicans would rather be right than win, and that's fundamentally the problem. They are saying in the polls, "Yes, Riordan is the strongest candidate to run in the general election, but we're going to vote to Simon, because he's the true blue Republican."

GREENFIELD: Clearly, Democrats believe that Governor Davis will have it easier in November if the more conservative Simon is the GOP nominee. In fact, the Davis campaign spent some $8 million to $10 million in TV ads attacking Riordan.

ANNUONCER: Riordan flipflopped on taxes and even waffled on taxing the Internet.

GREENFIELD: But history offers this small cautionary note. In 1966, Democratic Governor Pat Brown rejoiced when the conservative Republican beat the moderate in the primary. That winning candidate? Ronald Reagan.

I'm Jeff Greenfield for NEWSNIGHT.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: Now we heard a bit from Dan Schnur in Jeff's report.

He joins us again from Los Angeles. And in Washington, a shrewd political analyst herself, CNN's Candy Crowley. Welcome to both of you.

Well, let's begin with this governor's race. Dan, let's begin with you. You know, it's so bizarre in many ways. These guys were one time best friends. And in fact, Riordan kind of encouraged Simon to even get involved in this. And now they are the worst of nemesis here.

"The Washington Post" even today described them as both lawyers turned investors, both divorced, both millionaire philanthropists, neighbors. And now they can't stand one another. How have they turned off the voters in California?

DAN SCHNUR, POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, one thing is certain, Fredericka. What we're looking at out here is an extremely low turnout in tomorrow's primary election to no small degree, because not only Riordan and Simon, but the other two candidates, Republican Bill Jones and Democratic Governor Gray Davis are all running negative ads against each other. All that animosity in no question is going to drive down the vote in a very big way.

WHITFIELD: And Candy, how is this being watched inside the beltway there in Washington? This must be leaving a pretty bad taste in the mouths of Republicans there?

CANDY CROWELY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I'll tell you, the big story in Washington is the Bush administration, sort of, was a silent partner in the Riordan campaign. Now a lot of people at the RNC and at the White House will tell you that they didn't go ahead and push Riordan, but in fact Mr. Riordan has been telling people and a lot of people around him are saying look, Riordan is the White House guy.

The White House is dying to get California back. They would love to unseat Gray Davis, because it would give them a leg up in 2004, not to mention eliminate Gray Davis as a potential rival in 2004.

So it's really being looked at for the White House angle. And if Riordan does lose tomorrow, you will see a lot of analysis that says this was a big blow for the White House and shows that there are not a lot of coat tails with a very popular Republican president.

WHITFIELD: And if Riordan loses, is there a pretty strong feeling in Washington that Governor Davis just might be a shoo-in?

CROWLEY: Well, I think he still has the energy problem, which Dan could probably tell you a lot more about than I can, but Gray Davis has been through some rough times in California. And if he wins the election this fall, at least as it looks today, it's not so much that Gray Davis is overwhelmingly popular in California. It's that perhaps Republicans put forth a candidate that can't be elected state wide.

So Gray Davis has some problems of his own. I wouldn't say that he's a shoo in as, you know, exactly for winning for governor, but he sure has a leg up. If you get somebody who seems, at least, not to have as much statewide appeal as say a Riordan does.

WHITFIELD: OK, let's shift gears one more time back over to Condit. He's trying to secure his eighth term. Dan, it doesn't look likely, if you talk to many of the constituents there who say that they are embarrassed to send him back to Washington. Yet at the same time, recently, he seems to have gotten a surge in the polls. What's going on?

SCHNUR: Fredericka, what's most amazing here is not only is Gary Condit surging in the polls, but he's doing it in a district that his Democratic one-time allies drew specifically to discourage him from running.

This district is much more liberal than he's run in the past, and it's much more Latino than he's run in the past. So his challenges, his former chief of staff, Dennis Cardozoa, was hand-picked in order to run in this very specific district.

If Condit was running in his old district, he'd be running pretty well ahead right now. And even in front of voters who aren't that familiar with him, he looks like he has a chance to make it a very close race.

WHITFIELD: And Candy, the very simple question would be to Condit, why even run? Why put yourself through this? His response is I'm a fighter. And as it relates to the Chandra Levy missing persons case, he says that he'll be able to do more in the search for Chandra Levy if he's back on the Hill. What are his colleagues on the Hill saying about that?

CROWLEY: Well, I have to tell you that most people, Republicans and Democrats on Capitol Hill thought that Gary Condit was pretty much done. They are, no doubt, quite surprised at what's going on out in California.

Look, once it's hard to take him back down to the farm once they've seen the big city. Politicians love what they do. They want to be, you know, there is something in them that wants to return. They come up with any number of excuses of why they want to do it. But Gary Condit has the political bug. He wants back in office. He's been very effective for his district, which includes Modesto. There are -- he's brought home bacon heat. He knows how to service his district. So it's not surprising he's got some support there. But it's going to be really surprising to a lot of people on Capitol Hill, who pretty much thought he was done.

WHITFIELD: And who knows? There could be some surprises tomorrow in the primary. All right. Thanks very much. Candy Crowley and Dan Schnur, joining us from Washington and L.A. Appreciate it.

Well, coming up next, the doctor who told Andrea Yates to think positive thoughts. He took the stand at her trial today. Details when NEWSNIGHT Continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Welcome back back to NEWSNIGHT. You hear these words a lot at trials. Key witness, star witness, the person whose testimony in court could determine the course of the trial.

Today was no different for Andrea Yates. She's pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity. And the witness today was the last psychiatrist, the last doctor to treat her for mental illness before she murdered her children.

Here's CNN's David Mattingly.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He's the last psychiatrist to see Andrea Yates before she killed her five children. Dr. Mohammed Saeed also a lingering medical obstacle to Yates defense of not guilty by reason of insanity. Because two days before the killings, Saeed met Yates and saw no evidence of psychosis.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Certainly looks like somebody dropped the ball somewhere, doesn't it?

MATTINGLY: On the witness stand, intense questioning from the defense. Saeed forced to explain decisions he made treating Yates during hospital stays and as an outpatient from late March until June 18.

Strongly questioning his judgment, attorneys noted Saeed at first did not consult Yates' previous psychiatric records from 1999. When she twice attempted suicide and was diagnosed psychotic, Saeed once discharged Yates while she was on a suicide watch.

FAIRY CAROLAND, RUSSELL YATES' AUNT: I already knew he was relatively incompetent. And he just proved himself.

MATTINGLY: Much attention from the defense focused on Saeed's handling of Yates' medication. Yates' use of the anti-psychotic drug Haldol was discontinued 16 days before she drowned her children in the family bathtub. Saeed left the courtroom today without comment. (on camera): One big question from the defense, why did Dr. Saeed prescribe anti-psychotic medication to Andrea Yates, when he saw no evidence of psychotic behavior? His answer was that her depression was so severe, it could have been associated with some form of psychosis.

Also, he received a lot of encouragement from Andrea Yates' husband, Russell, who pushed him hard to prescribe the medicine. Fredericka?

WHITFIELD: All right, thanks very much, David Mattingly from Houston tonight.

On now to Washington and the issue that dominated so much of the news before September 11, the fight over stem cell research. That debate may dominate some of the news again tomorrow when a Senate health committee holds a hearing on whether to ban therapeutic cloning.

Creating embryo and stem cells could potentially be used to treat things like Parkinson's, Alzheimers, and spinal cord injuries. Earlier, we spoke to someone who will testify tomorrow, someone who knows the issue in a deeply personal way, actor Christopher Reeve. We visited him in his suburban New York City home.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTOPHER REEVE, ACTOR: The science is really more progressive than the politics. And it's rather difficult to accept the fact that we have a very potent new technology, that's available to scientists. And due to political backlash or political stagnation, it isn't progressing as it should.

What's going to happen is unless we are brave, unless we catch up, unless we are a courageous society, not worried about this slippery slope, you know, where critics think that if you start therapeutic cloning, there's no way to stop reproductive cloning.

Yes there is. You ban it, regulate it, and enforce it. Now yes, any powerful new technology also creates the possibility that there could be some abuse. You know, somebody in a laboratory someplace might do something weird, but that's probably a very minor concern. It can be dealt with.

Risk is part of the -- just the fragile adventure of life. And for me, to sit here in a wheelchair or for anybody else that's disabled for that matter, to sit here and know that there's a technology that has a real promise to change my life, and it's being held up for political reasons? Makes me absolutely furious.

Why can't we have more politicians who can imagine what it's like, who can put themselves in the shoes of their constituents? Take a look at me and think oh, my God this kid -- I'm not a kid, -- but this guy's been sitting in a wheelchair for seven years.

I can't eat by myself. I cannot wash myself. I cannot dress myself. I can't go to the bathroom by myself. And I've never been alone because I can't breathe on my own for seven years. For seven years, I have not been able to be anywhere unaccompanied. And do you know what that's like for somebody who has been independent as me?

And I have a nice life. I shouldn't complain. I'm not stuck in a center someplace, where nobody cares. I have a loving family. But I want to tell you, this is terrible. And what's even more terrible is something can be done about it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Christopher Reeve, a courageous fighter.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, rants and raves from a president's worst nightmare, one very tough reporter named Helen Thomas.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: This is your lucky night. We're christening a new segment tonight on NEWSNIGHT called "Rants and Raves." And this is how it works. We produce the piece along with the folks at the hotline, a must read for the political crowd in Washington. The idea is to take a heavy hitter, take them out of their usual environment, and let them rant and rave about the things you probably never heard them talk about before.

We picked a good one to start with tonight. Helen Thomas, the 80 something-year-old dean of the White House press corp. When Thomas was asked once about retiring, she said, "Like a soldier, I want to die with my boots on."

You know her from her spot in the White House briefing room. Firing off the first rattling, but always hard hitting question of the day. But her girlfriends know her as their regular dinner companion. They have gone to the same Lebanese restaurant for decades.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HELEN THOMAS: Hi, sweetheart.

I love it when the president goes out of town and I can come to my favorite hangout and be with my wonderful friends, who have been meeting for years, right?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's right.

THOMAS: But -- and of course, my favorite food here. I still am adamantly against nouvelle cuisine. I like the good old fashioned heavy cooking. And I do, I can't stand those prickly market greens. Market greens. They're impossible. You try -- I think if I went out weeding, I could make a better salad.

People say how is the flight. I said the flight was wonderful, but getting through the airport. I've taken my shoes off, my galoshes off. And so your ID at least two times. And then just before you get on the plane, they grab you and say no, we're going to go through -- I said but everything has been gone through. You know, then people look at you and think that you're some kind, that you're defying the security rules. And so you don't dare open your mouth.

I remember getting a phone call from Betty Ford, when I was covering the Camp David accords. Sitting there for 12 days and I get this call from Betty Ford's assistant, who said, "Now Helen, Betty Ford, she wanted you to know that she was going to undergo some surgery on her face." And I said, "Oh, is it cosmetic?" And he said, "I'll put her on." So she came on the phone and she said, I said, "You're going to have a face lift?" She said, "Yes, I'm 60 years old and I need a new face."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, good for her. She was a great gal, wasn't she?

THOMAS: Let me sum this up. I love it when the president's out of town then I can do what I want to do. I can meet with my friends and I can come to momma Aisha's, where I don't ever get nouvelle cuisine, which I detest. I can eat good hardy food. Even a salad named after me, I can't stand those market greens and all the picky stuff. And as long as I'm on a rant and rave here, I hate violent movies. I think Greta looks great. And I'm going to have a face lift tomorrow. No.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: Helen Thomas holding court at a restaurant as she so often does at the White House.

Well, coming up on NEWSNIGHT, a native New Yorker and the city he still can't figure out. Contributor Keith Olbermann.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Finally from us, New York, the ultimate eccentric. You could ask any New York transplant, and they probably agree, a mental list starts forming in your mind when you move here or at least even visit, a catalog of strange things you see day in and day out, that make you realize what New York is sometimes like a different planet. You think the natives would be hardened to any kind of amazement, but not that native, contributor Keith Olbermannn.

KEITH OLBERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Am I one of the amazing or strange things that was on your list?

WHITFIELD: Amazing, not strange.

OLBERMANN: Oh, thank you. I was born in New York. I lived in seven different zip codes here, 10 presidents have come and gone. I've moved away five times, and yet I'm still here. I'm the New Yorker.

And yet, there are still things about this city and area that completely astound and confuse me. And I'd like to share them with you periodically under a simple title heading called "Don't Ask Me I just live here." (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): We barrage you with instructions. You don't understand the parking regulations. No one has. Ever. Directions if you drive into town one, get out of your car. Two, sell your car. Still, one street sign makes less sense even than usual.

We are at the intersection of Third Avenue and 119th Street, the location evidently of New York's only claw to not claw sign. That would be a misinstalled walk, don't walk sign. Or it may simply be saying don't walk backwards. So don't. And don't ask me, I just live here.

This is one of the commuter lines that take you in and out of New York proper, into the suburbs. Metro North Hudson Division. I took this train for the first time right around 1962. It was 1979 or so that I first recorded seeing this. It is a long abandoned foot bridge over the tracks just south of the Riverdale station. Watch out for are that last step. It's a doozy. Obviously there used to be a pier just there, I think. Don't ask me, I just live here.

The waters around New York may explain some of this confusion. Not so much the waters themselves. Their names. This Hudson River is also known as, in fact it used to be interchangeably called the North River. So this other river on the other side, the one that's parallel to the North River? That'd be the East River. North over on one side, East on the other.

(on camera): Either the East River needs to become the South River or the North needs to become the West River. Knowing New York, we change one of them and then also change the other. And just to make it worse, of course, the East River isn't really a river. It's a title strait, a 14 mile connection between Long Island Sound and New York Harbor.

But I guess it was too much trouble to call it East Title Strait. Don't ask me, I just live here. Fredericka?

WHITFIELD: But of course, the disclaimer is you love all of it. These are not complaints.

OLBERMANN: I have to state that. We all love all of it. And amongst ourselves we go, oh man where's that bridge going?

WHITFIELD: Except the funny thing, as soon as New Yorkers leave New York, they so miss certain fixtures of the city, the same fixtures that you complain about like the smells.

OLBERMANN: Well I don't know if you can capture smells. Maybe in a future report we can do that. I'll go out with a mask and do that.

WHITFIELD: Right, right. All right, thanks a lot. Keith Olbermann, we'll be looking forward to these as much as we can see them in the week's time.

OLBERMANN: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: All right, thanks a lot. And that's going to do it for us. NEWSNIGHT, Aaron Brown will be back tomorrow. at least I think. I'm Fredericka Whitfield. Thanks for joining us.

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