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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown

Military Forces Continue Siege on Arafat Compound

Aired March 29, 2002 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CONNIE CHUNG, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening everyone. We began the week in the Middle East. We will end it there as well, and nothing has gotten better, nothing.

In fact, everything has gotten a lot worse and a lot more bloody. It was the Passover massacre on Wednesday that took what was already a crisis situation to a boiling point. The boiling point came today as Israeli forces stormed the headquarters of Yasser Arafat. He's alive, but Arafat is almost completely isolated from the world, except for the cell phone he's using to call world leaders, and at one point today, our Christiane Amanpour.

And it is Christiane who begins the whip for us tonight. She's in Jerusalem. Christiane, good evening and that was quite a dramatic interview you had today.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It was and it appears to show what kind of pressure Yasser Arafat is under. He thinks that he is a personal target of this offensive, even though the Israelis have told the Americans that he will not be harmed. Nonetheless, they have declared him an enemy of the state, and Palestinians say that gives them a license to kill.

CHUNG: Thank you, Christiane. On to Ramallah and Michael Holmes, who saw the events unfold today. Michael.

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Connie, it's early morning here, nearly dawn. Yasser Arafat still in his compound, still surrounded by Israeli tanks and troops and, as we speak, tank fire and heavy machine gun fire on the streets of Ramallah.

CHUNG: Thank you, Michael. For the White House response today, Major Garrett is at the President's ranch in Crawford, Texas. Good evening, Major.

MAJOR GARRETT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Connie. Bush Administration reaction can be summed up as follows: Zero tolerance for Palestinian acts of terrorism against Israeli civilians, qualified Bush Administration acceptance of the Israeli military assault in Ramallah.

CHUNG: Major.

GARRETT: Connie. CHUNG: Thank you, Major. Much of the program tonight is on the crisis in Israel. We will hear from two key players on opposite sides of the fight, Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erakat; and spokesman for the Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, Raanan Gissen; two journalists with a wealth of experience in the region, Clyde Haberman, former Jerusalem Bureau Chief for the New York Times, and Amy Wilentz, former Jerusalem Correspondent for "The New Yorker."

And what journalists are reporting in the region, what average people on both sides are hearing. We'll look at some of the local coverage and the two different versions of the same event.

We begin with a look at an extraordinary 24 hours in the Middle East. Last night at this time, we were awaiting a news conference from Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, breaking his silence after the suicide attack on the first night of Passover. He would set in motion a dramatic assault on Yasser Arafat's compound. Dozens were arrested and wounded. At least five Palestinians and one Israeli officer were killed, and Arafat would find himself alone, struggling to get his message out to the world.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHUNG (voice over): It started at 8:00 a.m. Jerusalem time. The Israeli Prime Minister pointed a finger squarely at the Palestinian leader.

ARIEL SHARON, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: We regard Chairman Arafat as an enemy because he decided about strategy of terror and formed a coalition of terror, and therefore, is going to be isolated.

CHUNG: The mission began literally cornering the man Sharon called the enemy, laying siege to Yasser Arafat's compound in Ramallah. A young Israeli described his first day in the army.

UNIDENTIFIED ISRAELI: This is a day that Mr. Arafat and his people should know that we are not going to be quiet. We have to answer, fight back what he did for the last month.

CHUNG: And from inside the compound, Arafat's adviser waited as Israeli troops closed in.

ABU RUDEINEH, YASSER ARAFAT'S MEDIA ADVISER: The Israelis are still pushing their tanks inside the compound, and they have already occupied and stormed several buildings around the main headquarters. The situation is very grave and very serious.

CHUNG: On Al Jazeera, Arafat was defiant as ever.

YASSER ARAFAT, PALESTINIAN LEADER (through translator): They either want to kill me or capture me or expel me, but I say no. I will be a martyr.

CHUNG: Israel assured the world that this isn't a mission to kill Arafat. Still, there was word of fighting room-to-room, and Arafat's adviser pleaded for outside help. Soon after, the U.S. weighed in, criticizing Palestinian terror, but urging Israel to move ahead with caution.

COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: The Israelis have said to me that it is not their intention to occupy any of these areas, and the only area they're in at the moment is Ramallah for some extended period. They are going in to find terrorists, to pick up weapons, and it is not their intention to occupy these places on any long-term basis. We asked the Israelis to show the necessary restraint with respect to that activity, so that they do not put Chairman Arafat's life in danger.

DR. HANAN ASHRAWI, PALESTINIAN SPOKESPERSON: Well asking Ariel Sharon to exercise restraint is like telling a fire not to flame. I mean he's bringing death and destruction on both sides. He should be stopped. This is madness.

CHUNG: Madness indeed on both sides, a Palestinian suicide bomber outside a Jerusalem supermarket, an 18-year-old girl who was to be married this summer. In a videotape made before her death she said: "I'm going to fight instead of the sleeping Arab armies, who are watching Palestinian girls fighting alone." She killed at least two people. And, a Palestinian cameraman shot in Ramallah, while riding through an area filled with gunfire.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHUNG (on camera): The cameraman, Carlos Handal (ph) suffered a gunshot wound to the mouth. He's recovering tonight at a hospital in Ramallah, and as we mentioned, CNN's Michael Holmes also spent the day terribly close to the fighting. We turn to him once again at the beginning of another day in Ramallah. Michael, what is happening there now?

HOLMES: Connie, right now dawn is about to break here after 24 hours of gunfire. We're standing here listening, actually, to heavy machine gun fire, about 400 or 500 meters from where we are. There have been exchanges like this throughout the night. In the last 20 minutes or so, we've also heard two tank shells going off in the area.

This is not at Yasser Arafat's compound. This is in the streets of Ramallah. At the compound itself, Yasser Arafat still in two rooms, surrounded literally by Israeli troops and tanks. He is up in his office, and there are two tanks at the bottom of the stairs that lead up to that office, and I can tell you it's about a 20-second walk.

Israeli troops, however, have not gone up to those offices. They are just staying outside and waiting. It's been a day of gunfire, both at the compound and on the streets of Ramallah. When we drive to the compound, as we did several times in the last 24 hours, we passed Palestinian gunmen on the streets, wondering around from street to street. We see them firing at Israeli troops. We see Israeli troops firing back.

And as I say, throughout the night here, there has been the sound of gunfire and it continues and literally as we speak. Connie.

CHUNG: All right. Thank you, Michael. There was a photograph today that said so much. Yasser Arafat with a bodyguard on each arm, a cell phone in one hand, and a submachine gun close by. It is the picture of a man under siege, and by the sound of his voice today, under a great deal of pressure. Back now to CNN's Christiane Amanpour for more of her exclusive interview with Chairman Arafat. Christiane.

AMANPOUR: Well, Connie, the Israeli army as you know has breached right into his compound, and is pretty much almost at the doors of where he and his two or three aides are holed up. They've destroyed buildings around, and Arafat told us about that. He also said that he felt that he was a target, even though the Israelis say that that is not the case. We spoke to him by phone a few, a couple of hours ago.

ARAFAT: They have destroyed completed seven of our buildings, completely, around my office. And, firing my office with all their armaments, what do you expect? And in regard to that, you have to understand and they have to understand it is the Palestinian people who are facing this challenge, and we are sure that our people would continue stead-fastening in the face of this terrorism. This is the real terrorism of the occupation.

AMANPOUR: Do you -

ARAFAT: And especially they are using all the American weapons against us. F-15 and F-16 and (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and rockets and bombs and artillery and everything.

AMANPOUR: Do you believe, Mr. Arafat, that they are trying to kill you, trying to harm you?

ARAFAT: What do you expect by shelling us continuously in the last 24 hours? What do you think -

AMANPOUR: Mr. Arafat, what about these -

ARAFAT: -- it is by chance?

AMANPOUR: You heard Colin -

ARAFAT: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) that the Americans said that Arafat will not be missed, will not be harmed. It is a problem of Arafat or the problem of our people, of our liberty, of our independent Palestinian State.

AMANPOUR: Secretary of State Colin Powell has spoken to you I understand. He has also spoken publicly, and called on you to reign in the violence. What do you make of that statement and can you and will you reign in that violence?

ARAFAT: Are you asking me while I'm under complete siege? You are a wonderful journalist. You have to respect your profession.

AMANPOUR: Mr. Arafat, I'm asking you simply a question. Are you able to -

ARAFAT: You have to be -

AMANPOUR: -- reign in the violence.

ARAFAT: You have to be accurately when you are speaking with General Yasser Arafat. Be quiet!

AMANPOUR: Mr. Arafat, what did you think of Colin Powell's statement?

ARAFAT: You are covering this question, this terrorist activities of the Israel occupation and the Israeli crimes. Be fair (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

AMANPOUR: Can I ask -

ARAFAT: Thank you. Bye. Bye.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: So you can see at the end there especially, a very agitated and somewhat abusive Yasser Arafat at the end of that interview, obviously under a great deal of pressure. The Israelis have said they want to isolate him. It is clear that he is isolated at the very least now with an enormous amount of Israeli infantry and firepower surrounding his compound and inside the compound.

We have talked to the Israeli government spokesman who said that this is an operation that has no limits, that it will only end when there's a cease-fire or when they've rooted out terrorism, but they say they are going to "go all the way this time" whatever that might mean. Connie.

CHUNG: Christiane, I'm sure you've interviewed Arafat many times. Has he ever reacted to a question that you've asked like that?

AMANPOUR: Well actually, I've only interviewed him once before. It was shortly after the Camp David procedure collapse, and he was similarly agitated then.

You know, you can imagine a man who's been sitting inside a compound for the last 24 hours, surrounded by firing tanks, machine guns and troops, obviously under some pressure, that, plus the pressure that the international community is bringing on him to try to do something about this violence.

His position has always been that it is not an equitable situation as you heard him in that interview, that Israel is occupying the territories that they are in and not only that, that Israel is equipped with much, much greater firepower. So that has been their public and private position on all of this. Connie.

CHUNG: Thank you so much, Christiane Amanpour. I hope you can get some sleep now. The fate of Arafat is very much in question tonight, but the Israeli government has made one thing clear repeatedly today. "We could have killed Arafat long ago and could have today but didn't" and apparently won't in the future.

More on today's action and what might be next. Joining us by phone, Ra'anan Gissen, spokesman for Prime Minister Sharon. Thank you so much for being with us.

RA'ANAN GISSEN, SPOKESMAN FOR ARIEL SHARON: Good morning to you.

CHUNG: Thank you. What we are seeing here is tit-for-tat. They engage in a terrorist attack, and then you retaliate. Is anyone thinking about peace?

GISSEN: Connie, one thing I want to tell you and I want to tell the audience. Let's lay to rest this issue of moral equivalency. There is no moral equivalency when we as a people, as a nation, are defending ourselves for that past 120 years against Arab terrorism, and for the past 54 years by Palestinian terrorism and defending our lives against this senseless attempt to target innocent civilians.

And on the other hand, when someone deliberately targets men, women, and children in places where they gather and that has been the strategy of Yasser Arafat when he sends and instigates those Shaheeds (ph), those martyrs to kill them in the Passover massacre and other killings we have suffered in the past 18 months.

CHUNG: Do you believe that Yasser Arafat actually --

GISSEN: So that (UNINTELLIGIBLE) we are defending ourselves. We are the victims, not Yasser Arafat locked in his compound.

CHUNG: Do you actually believe that Yasser Arafat knew that that 18-year-old teenage girl was going to strap a bomb around herself and -

GISSEN: Perhaps not the 18-year-old teenage girl -

CHUNG: Well how many others might he not have known about?

GISSEN: -- but all the - because he has been calling. He is the one who is educating them, and since 1993 when the Oslo Accord came and everybody looked for an historical change, where Arafat would lead the cause of peace. He's been instigating and inciting for more hatred.

A young generation has been contaminated with his words of hatred and vilifying animosity towards Israel. How do you want to have peace when he is continuously leading an educational program to kill more and more Israelis and Jews?

CHUNG: So -

GISSEN: He can't bask in his innocence. He is guilty as hell, and when he sits there in his compound today and speaks to Christiane Amanpour, you know, he thinks, relives his 1982 experience in Beirut, but it's 2002 and it's six months after September 11th in this world.

CHUNG: Sir. What do you expect this military action to accomplish?

GISSEN: Well, as we said in the past, you know, we launched this military operation because we had no other choice because Arafat left us no other choice.

CHUNG: But in the end, sir, in the end what do you expect to achieve?

GISSEN: He refuses to use every opportunity to have cease-fire. Now, I'll tell you exactly. This is going to be a continuous operation to dismantle the terrorist infrastructure and the terrorist hideouts that he has been building up for the past 18 months, a coalition of terror that he was supposed to dismantle as Secretary of State Powell said. He did not take anything to stop the reigning in of terror and we will do exactly that for him and for his people and for ourselves.

CHUNG: Sir, do you believe that you are at war now?

GISSEN: We were at war the minute he launched this war 18 months ago. Now we're in the midst of this war because it has reached such levels, and such atrocities against innocent civilians. There's no way that a sovereign nation, like Israel or any other nation, the United States for example, would sit back and play dead and say "go ahead, do what you want to do" and then eventually, you know, what you want will be delivered to you by the international community.

I'm asking where is the international community that is bemoaning and trying to save Arafat, like a lobby saving Willy the whale, you know? And where are they in terms of trying to save the children and the men and women who were killed in Netanya, were killed in Jerusalem last night, and that we have to bury every week.

CHUNG: Mr. Gissen, can you tell me what would happen if Yasser Arafat was not the leader of the Palestinians? Would it be a member of the Jihad? Would it be a member of the Hamas, or even no one? Then you would end up with anarchy. You would have no one to talk to.

GISSEN: Well, I think if we let Arafat continue the way he wants, we would have ended up in preplanned anarchy. That was his main goal, to create such anarchy in the territories so that there will be a spillover of this conflict in to the neighboring countries, and maybe, hopefully, you know that's one of his wet dreams, they'll be intervention of international forces.

That won't happen because, as you know, we have managed this conflict very carefully and we tried in our response to limit our extent of operation only to this territory and to prevent as much as possible damage to innocent civilians.

It's difficult because where the terrorists have placed themselves inside the society and they are trying to destroy it from within, not just destroying us, but destroy Palestinian society and Palestinian hope. We believe that in this kind of sustained operation, we'll reach a point that even if Arafat is no longer the leader, there will be people among the Palestinians who will be willing to finally accept our extended hand that we have stretched to them seven years ago, to start on the new road, a road for peace, a road for reconciliation.

CHUNG: All right.

GISSEN: But it can't go through terrorism.

CHUNG: Thank you so much, Raanan Gissen, for being with us tonight. Just ahead the Bush Administration weighs in and the U.N. Security Council holds an emergency session. This is NEWSNIGHT from New York for Friday.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHUNG: A number of messages coming today from the Bush Administration. There's understanding for the Israeli operation, disappointment in Yasser Arafat, but also a warning to both sides not to go too far. Once again, CNN's Major Garrett with the President in Crawford, Texas.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GARRETT: Infuriated by recently Palestinian terror attacks in Israel, the Bush Administration was in no mood to criticize the Israeli attack on Yasser Arafat's headquarters.

POWELL: Terrorism that targets innocent civilians have dealt a serious blow to the effort to achieve a cease-fire and to find a political solution to the crisis in the Middle East.

GARRETT: President Bush dictated the U.S. response from his Texas ranch, dispatching Powell to brief the media after an hour-long video teleconference with his national security team and numerous calls to National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice.

Top officials said the Bush team unanimously approved a hands-off U.S. approach to Israel's assault on Arafat's compound. Even so, administration officials were hard pressed to describe how the assault would change things for the better, and urged Israel to weigh the consequences of its military actions.

POWELL: The President and I are gravely concerned at the situation today in Ramallah. We deplore the killing and wounding of innocent Palestinians there.

GARRETT: Israel tipped off the Bush Administration about its military plans, assuring top Bush advisers it did not intend to harm or kill the Palestinian Leader. So the administration did nothing to discourage the Israeli assault.

ALON PINKAS, ISRAELI COUNSEL GENERAL: We found the American administration to be forthcoming and understanding. GARRETT: Powell also said Arafat, pictured here in his headquarters as it was under siege, remains a central figure in the cease-fire talks, a rejection of Israel's branding Arafat an enemy of the state.

Powell called Arafat and again urged him to arrest and prosecute Palestinian terrorists some of whom the U.S. believes are members of the Palestinian Authority.

But U.S. officials conceded that's difficult while Arafat's compound is under attack, a thought echoed by an adviser to the Palestinians.

EDWARD ABINGTON, PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY ADVISER: They're saying, "how can Arafat do more when his security forces can not move around the West Bank to do precisely what the Americans and the Israelis are saying he should do?"

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GARRETT (on camera): The White House argues Arafat can do more, specifically renounce terrorism as a means of achieving political goals. Powell urged Arafat to do so and do so in Arabic. Instead, the Palestinian Leader offered to implement an unconditional cease- fire, a gesture the Bush Administration considered so shallow that on Friday, Secretary of State Powell refused to even discuss it. Connie.

CHUNG: Thank you, Major Garrett. Members of the United Nations Security Council called an emergency meeting tonight. It came at the request of the Palestinian envoy. CNN's Richard Roth joins us now from the U.N. Good evening, Richard.

RICHARD ROTH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Connie. Just a few days ago, the Security Council has unprecedented unity on the Middle East, something that hasn't happened in 20 or 30 years. The Security Council has said they could see two separate states, an Israeli State and a Palestinian State, but all of that is forgotten this evening.

An emergency session on Good Friday, the building was originally closed. Syria's Ambassador called it "Sad Friday," the Security Council meeting right now with various ambassadors making concluding speeches. There is no resolution expected or a vote, though the Arab group is pushing a text, which in effect says Israel should withdraw from all the Palestinian cities, especially Ramallah.

Secretary General Kofi Annan of the United Nations denounced the practices of both sides, the suicide bombers from the Palestinian camp and the Israelis for an incursion into Arafat's compound. Meanwhile, the Israeli and Palestinian delegates dueled over the cornering of Yasser Arafat.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NASSER AL-KIOWA, PALESTINIAN OBSERVER TO U.N. (through translator): Let me state here, Mr. President, that any harm, any prejudice to President Arafat would be the matter of all those mistakes.

YEHUDA LANCRY, ISRAELI AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: Chairman Arafat and the Palestinian Authority have failed to take even the most minimal steps to end the violence and terrorism in blatant disregard of the will of international community.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROTH: The U.S. delegate condemned the suicide bombings but also offered some cautionary words for Ariel Sharon, saying that Arafat is still a key player in any peace process. Most of the nations here condemned Israel; however, they have always been more on the side of the Palestinians through the years. Connie.

CHUNG: Thank you, Richard Roth. Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, two journalists who know the Israeli conflict inside and out.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHUNG: As an outsider, it's tempting to look at the crisis and think well, can't they all just get along. But obviously the issues, culture and history are extremely complex.

Joining us now, two journalists who can give us some clarity on all the complexity: Clyde Haberman, former Jerusalem bureau chief for "The New York Times" and Amy Wilentz, former Jerusalem correspondent for "The New Yorker."

Thank you so much for being with us tonight. First, did both of you see Christiane Amanpour's interview with Yasser Arafat?

CLYDE HABERMAN, "NEW YORK TIMES": Mm-hmm.

CHUNG: I'm curious to know how you would analyze what you saw? First, Amy?

AMY WILENTZ, "THE NEW YORKER": Well, I feel that he really thinks he's under siege and he can't understand her world view, where she would be asking him how he's going to deal with terrorism when what he's hearing outside his compound is, you know, the Israeli army coming right in to get him.

HABERMAN: On the other hand, Arafat likes nothing more than actually being under siege to a certain degree, if not physically this way. Then certainly politically. And he has had a great tendency to be able to make weaknesses his great strength. And he's done it again and again. And this could yet be another opportunity.

CHUNG: So you're saying he enjoyed the drama to some extent?

HABERMAN: I wouldn't be surprised.

WILENTZ: And also, it boosts his popularity with his people. The closer they come to him, the better off he is.

CHUNG: So the Israelis played right into his hands in many ways. It's as if he scripted it. He called for an unconditional cease-fire. He knew the Israelis were going to retaliate. And then, he would sit there and become the victim.

WILENTZ: Well, he becomes the victim yet he is fairly sure that they're not going to come and kill him. So it's almost as if they're playing a game of chicken with him. You know, getting closer and closer, but never really hitting.

CHUNG: But isn't it -- I almost feel as if its reduced to just childhood activity were it not so vicious and deadly.

HABERMAN: Right, and if the stakes weren't so high, it would be tempting to dismiss it all. I mean, there's a big part of me, and I think of a lot of people, who wish that these two, 70-year-old plus men would simply go in a room and duke it out among -- between themselves. But obviously, there's a lot more on the line.

But you can't escape the sense that a lot of this is not just two peoples at war, but two men settling scores going back 12 years or more. This is very dangerous.

CHUNG: Yes. And also, if you take into account that Ariel Sharon has always believed that a military intervention would succeed in changing the Palestinians political views. And it has never worked.

WILENTZ: Well, it merely entrenches them in their political views, because they're under occupation. I think they feel that it's just more of the same, rather than seeing it as a new military intervention.

CHUNG: And Clyde, do you believe that Ariel Sharon really believes he can accomplish something with the military history?

HABERMAN: I have no idea what he believes, because I don't think anybody's clear what his end game on this, of going in, not wanting to kill the man, not wanting to even give him a bus ticket back to Tunis, but just sort of keeping him isolated on the second floor, I believe it is, of his compound.

On the other hand, there's obviously great pressure on Sharon and his own internal pressure to do something. You can't absorb in that region something like a bombing and coming on several other bombings and simply say okay, we'll keep holding back. Holdng back.

WILENTZ: Right. It's not just internal pressure, it's actual political pressure from Netanyahu on his right. I mean he -- both sides being pushed by their extremes.

CHUNG: Yes. So what does Ariel Sharon do? I mean, does he expel Arafat? Does he not allow him to come back? I mean, what can he do?

HABERMAN: Again, I don't think any of us can read what he plans. He's -- expelling might be his desire.

WILENTZ: But he wouldn't even let him leave. So expulsion doesn't seem possible.

CHUNG: All right, we're going to continue our discussion. And what I want to get into is the U.S. role, find out more about that. We'll be back in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHUNG: Continuing our discussion now with two reporters who know the region all too well. Clyde Haberman of "The New York Times," formerly of -- well the Jerusalem -- you're still with "The New York Times," but formerly of the Jerusalem bureau chief and Amy Wilentz of "The Nation" now. Correct?

WILENTZ: Yes.

CHUNG: Thank you. Now we were going to talk about the U.S. Is the I.S. to blame for not stepping in sooner and allowing this to occur?

WILENTZ: I don't think you can say the U.S. is to blame. But certainly when I was talking to Israelis after Clinton left the White House, they said we feel as though the prosecution is there and the defendants are there. And the judge has simply walked out on the process.

HABERMAN: I agree that's true.

CHUNG: Clyde?

HABERMAN: I mean, partly one can't blame Bush, after seeing how Clinton was treated at the end of his term.

WILENTZ: Right, it was a set back.

HABERMAN: This is not something he wanted to go walk into. So one can hardly blame him.

On the other hand, nothing is going to happen. And it's clear from the beginning that nothing ever was going to happen there without the U.S. stepping in and stepping in very hard. Even now in this business, you get the sense that the U.S. has stepped up its activity, mainly because it's trying to create a platform from which it could jump into Iraq.

And so, it's not even truly for the Israeli Palestinian conflict of its own. And every time it sent Mr. Zinni in, it's been amazing. I was there for at least one of those visits.

CHUNG: Yes.

HABERMAN: The death total just goes through the roof every time he shows up.

CHUNG: To what do you attribute that?

HABERMAN: Partly, it may be deliberate to show him that 0this is, you know, welcome to the big leagues. But it's -- whether I'm right or not, it is extraordinary how many people have died while he's been present.

CHUNG: Is there a struggle within the administration? I mean, I have -- we haven't seen Secretary Powell go on a shuttle diplomacy trip or anything like that.

HABERMAN: No.

CHUNG: No. Well what -- is there a struggle in viewpoint? I mean, we hear these rumors that Cheney and Rumsfeld are on one side, and Powell is on the other side. But is that true?

WILENTZ: So that it's the same split that we've had in other areas within the State Department. I don't know if that's really true. I think that Powell is -- tends to want to get into it, but they're just keeping back a little bit and waiting to go see what the policy will be in Iraq.

HABERMAN: Difficult balancing act. And again, to a bit echo what I said before, they saw Warren Christopher shuttled, you know, like he was going between Grand Central and Times Square. Back and forth, back and forth on the Syria question and got nowhere except a lot of humiliation, frankly.

And I don't blame them necessarily for not wanting to repeat what they perceive as errors. But again, there's got to be a balance here. The administration has been too distant. And without the United States coming in and knocking heads, in some way, nothing's going to happen?

CHUNG: Well, should the United States have been tougher on Sharon?

HABERMAN: It could have been. It could also have been -- I don't know how it could have been tougher on Arafat, but it sort of surrendered its so-called honest broker role to some degree, while at the same time being indispensable.

CHUNG: So I think the question everyone's asking is what happens now?

WILENTZ: Yes, that's the big, question.

CHUNG: Does anyone -- do you have any wild guess?

HABERMAN: I don't have a clue except that it seems to me that this may be the stupidest war ever fought. In many respects because in the end, both sides are going to go back basically where they were before all this started in September of 2000.

The basic outlines that were laid out at Camp David two Julys ago, still seem to me the basic points. We're going to argue details and so on, on this. But in the end, they have no alternative except to live with each other. Everybody talks about putting up a wall and separation. So when they're like interlocking hands... (CROSS TALK)

WILENTZ: They're are a million Arab-Israelis anyway, inside the country.

CHUNG: Yes, so it's a matter of time.

HABERMAN: So this solves nothing. Nothing. It's crazy. And nobody's got an answer.

WILENTZ: It's like they have gone to the end game, and then they have to go back to square one any way. So what's the point of all that dying?

CHUNG: All right, thank you so much, Amy Wilentz and Clyde Haberman. Thank you for being with us.

Coming up, the chief negotiator for the Palestinians, Saeb Erekat. This is NEWSNIGHT for a Friday.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHUNG: Earlier we heard from a spokesman for Israeli Prime Minister Sharon. Now the Palestinians side from chief negotiator Saeb Erekat. We begin with Erekat talking about when he first learned of the Israeli assault from Arafat himself.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAEB EREKAT, CHIEF PALESTINIAN NEGOTIATOR: At 5:00 o'clock in the morning, I received a phone call from President Arafat, telling me that they began their incursion, that tanks are circulating his office, and that the situation is very grave and dangerous.

CHUNG: And where is Yasser Arafat now?

EREKAT: Mr. Arafat is in his compound in Ramallah or what's left of the compound in Ramallah. There is no electricity, no running water. It's a very grave situation. And I really fear for Arafat's life. When Sharon said this morning that Arafat is declared as an enemy, I said this is a license to kill Arafat.

CHUNG: Now when Yasser Arafat spoke to you on the telephone, had any of his immediate staff members been injured?

EREKAT: He spoke to me of four of his guards actually injured. They were caught by surprise when the tanks started firing the entrance at the main gate. And then they later bulldozed them. We managed through contact with many embassies, foreign embassies, here to get an ambulance about half an hour later to get these four guards to hospital.

And then President Arafat told me that many of the buildings, including an office for me there and a resting place for me in that compound was destroyed by the shillings. There were fires. There were buildings that were crumbling down. All the walls around his office were demolished by the Israelis. Huge bulldozers. And I don't think it's over yet.

CHUNG: And what did he tell you to convey to Mr. Zinni, General Zinni?

EREKAT: Well, as a matter of fact when General Zinni came to my office, I was speaking to President Arafat. And I told General Zinni that I'm on the line with President Arafat. And General Zinni took the phone and spoke to President Arafat and told him my instructions is to remain here. I want to continue engaging. and now we need to de escalate, to deconflict. I think that's what I heard General Zinni said to President Arafat.

And President Arafat said to him that we would continuing exerting every possible effort with you. We came a long way and we made our progress. And we should continue.

CHUNG: Mr. Erekat, what did you and the Palestinians expect, after all, after the -- there were several of these suicide bombing attacks? Didn't you expect Israel to retaliate?

EREKAT: Connie, as I said, I think President Arafat was one of the first to condemn the suicidal attack.

CHUNG: Then why didn't he try to stop them?

EREKAT: He needs to be given the chance to stop it. All Sharon has been doing for the last 12 months is to destroy our communication centers, our security in the quarters, our vehicles.

CHUNG: But Erekat, forgive me. I need to interrupt you. Mr. Arafat has had plenty of opportunities to stop. There have been one after another.

EREKAT: President Arafat either will be treated as president or as a prisoner. They cannot Arafat's hands and tie his legs and throw him in the sea and say, Connie, look, he can't swim. He's no good or he's no partner.

You cannot do all of this and destroy all our capabilities and then say why didn't we do enough? How could we do enough? Today they said Arafat must do more. Look at his picture today. Look at the compound today. What can Arafat do today under these circumstances? What could Arafat have done months ago when he wasn't in siege and closure?

CHUNG: With all due respect, Mr. Erekat, weren't there many opportunities prior to today, where Arafat could have stopped the suicide bombers?

EREKAT: I think he did. And he had one opportunity, you're right on December 16th, 2001. He declared cease-fire and he suspend the cease-fire. For 24 days, there wasn't a single Israeli, who was injure. And then Sharon began a program of assassinating Palestinian leaders. After that, hell broke loose.

CHUNG: Mr. Erekat, if Yasser Arafat is brought down by this action, who would take his place?

EREKAT: Well, I think if President Arafat goes down, this Palestinian Authority goes down, I would say God help Palestinians and Israelis, because what we'll be witnessing out there today and yesterday will be the tip of the iceberg of what will become of Israelis and Palestinians.

CHUNG: Is that a threat or a promise?

EREKAT: That is a very sad reality. That's a very sad reality because if Arafat goes down, and the peace process goes down, and hope goes down, then you know, hope is lost in the mind of people, I think we will be pushed. And that's what Sharon is doing today.

I don't know how many lives of Israelis and Palestinians have to be lost in order for Sharon to understand that there is no military solution for this. We need a political solution. And the shortest way is to end the Israeli occupation.

CHUNG: The young girl who had the bomb strapped to herself was upset with the Palestinian, the Arab leadership. And that's why she blew herself up. Doesn't that concern you? If you don't care about the Israeli civilians, which you say you do, don't you care about your own individuals who are willing to die?

EREKAT: You know, we need to revive hope in the minds of Palestinians. We need to tell the Palestinians. I need to tell my children, you know. I'm a father of four. And I tell you, it aches my heart to see Israeli civilians killed or Palestinian civilians killed. We need to revive hope. We need to revive the idea that peace is doable between Palestinians and Israelis. And that's the main task today.

CHUNG: Thank you so much, Mr. Erekat.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

Just one of many voices we've heard tonight. When we come back, how the story is being reported by the local media. Their news when your news returns.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHUNG: We want to take a look at the events of the day as seen by television viewers in the region itself. As you can imagine, there are enormous differences in how the story is being reported in Israel and the Arab world. First tonight, their news in Israel, where the operation of Ramallah came second and the suicide bombing was the lead.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: [translated]. Hello everybody. Three dead from the bomb at the supermarket at Kyriat Yobel (ph). For the latest violence in Jerusalem there are 26 injured, one of them very seriously. With more details on the bombing, we'll go to Gilad Adeen. With the details of the bombing, Gilad, please.

GILAD ADEEN: Hello from Kyriat Yobel (ph). You can see here the scene of the bombing. They've opened the supermarket and they're cleaning. Two people were killed right here at the entry of the Super Sol (ph) in Kyriat Yobel (ph).

A 16-year-old girl came in here exactly three hours ago. She blew herself up, right after a security guard approached her and put her through a check. She detonated the bomb that was on her belt. The 16-year-old girl came to the market, trying not to look suspicious. but she still aroused suspicion. And the security guards approached her and started questioning her. And that's when she detonated the bomb. Let's hear from a witness who was here right after the bomb.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Five minutes before the bomb, I saw the terrorist speaking with two girls. They were sitting on the ground and eating. And as soon as the bombing happened, they picked up everything and left.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHUNG: That was the lead on ITV. The seizure on Yasser Arafat's compound came next on the broadcast and got considerably less play.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: [translated]. The army has mobilized the strong power into Ramallah and they are fighting continuously. It's already 12 midnight and they are still there. Israeli troops have entered in the Palestinian land. And we can see from these pictures Israeli tanks inside Ramallah. They are coming close to Arafat's compound.

The army is still arresting wanted people, wanted by the Israeli army that Arafat was supposed to arrest and never arrested. The army has arrested people and recovered ammunition. Some 80 Fatwah members were rounded up. And a huge cache of ammunition was found. There were probably about 100 casualties of Israelis in just the month of March. And four Israelis injured, and one death just today. The army will continue in Ramallah and then go to other Palestinian areas.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHUNG: On the other hand, Abu Dhabi TV lead with the attack and devoted a large part of the coverage to an interview with Yasser Arafat.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: [translated] From Abu Dhabi television we welcome you to the Midar (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Welcome to Midar (ph) tonight. Abu Dhabi channel United States gave the green light to Israel to invade the presidential headquarters.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And 3,000 Israeli soldiers join in to attack the presidential headquarters. And three died defending the presidential headquarters.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Palestinian President Yasser Arafat today accused the United States, who gave the green light for the Israeli attack on the presidential headquarters in Ramallah. And in a special interview with Abu Dhabi channel, Arafat said that seven of his guards were killed and more than 40 injured while they were defending the presidential headquarters in Ramallah. Arafat assured that the Palestinian people are steadfast. And the option of peace is still there when the right conditions occur.

YASSER ARAFAT, PRESIDENT, PALESTINE AUTHORITY: The tank's two meters away. They destroyed seven buildings so far in the province. The only remaining building is the building we are sitting in right now. Even though it's shelled with several bullets, they disconnected everything on us. But this is not the first time. We haven't forgotten the Beirut siege. When they disconnected the water and the Lebanese people and I dug oil wells, so that the Lebanese people and Palestinian people can drink and siege Beirut.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, also the Arab viewers were concerned momentarily when we were broadcasting live here from Abu Dhabi television, your headquarters. There was smoke coming from the roof of the headquarters building. Can we know?

ARAFAT: Of course. They burned rooms. They burned offices. There is nothing to be done they haven't done. They will not let an ambulance to pick up the injured. And no fire trucks to extinguish the fire, the fires they started. But we will dig the water, just like we dug it over there. So what?

CHUNG: Abu Dhabi TV. And that's NEWSNIGHT for tonight. Aaron Brown will be back on Monday.

It's been a pleasure to be here with you this week, although the news has been so grim. I'm Connie Chung. Thank you for joining us. And for all of us at NEWSNIGHT, good-night.

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