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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown
House Approves Guns for Pilots; All Star Game Ends in Tie; Daniel Pearl Murder Trial Wraps Up
Aired July 10, 2002 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again everyone. There are certain things you should not do in life. You shouldn't hit small children or dogs. You shouldn't steal an unpaid intern's dinner, and you shouldn't beat up on Major League Baseball. It's just not a fair fight.
So, this is a cheap shot, and I hope you'll forgive me, but what were those people thinking last night when they allowed the All Star Game, the fan's game, to end in a tie? There are no ties in baseball, no crying in baseball, and no ties.
But, the same brilliant people who canceled the World Series, and will likely ruin this season with yet another labor dispute, took their biggest TV audience of the year, not to mention all the paying customers, and said "hey, we're tired. We want to go home and stop playing now."
The commissioner, and the game was being played in his hometown and the stadium, of course, funded mostly by the taxpayers of Wisconsin, promised today this will never happen again, and you know what, I think he's right. They'll do something even dumber next time.
I actually almost felt bad for Bud Selig today, he looked so pained when he talked about all the nasty things he'd heard said about him on the radio in his hometown. Don't fans understand, he seemed to say? No, they don't.
One paper in Seattle summed up baseball's decision this way: "They wouldn't risk a sore arm to stand up for the resolution everyone deserved. Presented with a challenge, it never occurred to anyone to take an extraordinary measure on behalf of the fans, only for themselves."
But hey, that's baseball. That's why kids don't care much for the game, because in the end, the game doesn't really care much for them. So, I will stop now and leave the rest of baseball bashing in the hands of a trained professional, but when they pass out this year's idiocy awards, I have a nominee. More on the All Star Shame as some are calling it with Keith Olbermann a little bit later, but as always, the real news comes first, and it comes with a whip.
We begin with a bill that will allow guns in the cockpit. Patty Davis is following that for us, Patty start us off with a headline please.
PATTY DAVIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A big step forward for guns in the cockpit, the House overwhelmingly passing legislation arming pilots on a voluntary basis. Still a long way to go in the Senate and the White House says no way. Aaron.
BROWN: Patty, thank you, back to you at the top. A day after the president's speech a lot of movement in the Senate on corporate responsibility today; Jonathan Karl spent his day covering that, so Jon a headline from you tonight.
JONATHAN KARL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The Senate unanimously approved virtually everything the president called for on Wall Street and more, and tomorrow they're expected to pass more regulations. But despite the widespread agreement, there's been no end to the political infighting on the issue of corporate responsibility.
BROWN: Jon, thank you, and on to Pakistan. It's been a while since we said that. The latest tonight on the trial of those accused of kidnapping and murdering Daniel Pearl; Tom Mintier covering that, Tom a headline from you tonight.
TOM MINTIER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, the trial is finally over after 12 weeks. It now goes to the judge, a judge who will decide in five days what the verdict will be. This was not in front of a jury, but in front of a judge. All four men the prosecution has asked for the death penalty. The last time that was carried out here was more than a year ago for the murder of a diplomat. We'll have to wait and see what the appeals process, and it's a lengthy one, what it has to say before there is any action, if indeed they are convicted -- Aaron.
BROWN: Tom, thank you, back with all of you shortly. Quite a bit tonight on cleaning up corporate America from a few different angles, we'll talk with Floyd Norris, who's the chief financial correspondent to the New York Times on what the president did not say yesterday and might have, as well as his take on the markets, which continued to tank today.
We also talked today with Senator John McCain on what kind of reform is likely to pass Congress, what he would like to see, and the legal gadfly best known for driving the Clintons crazy has a Republican target in his sights this time. Larry Klayman says the vice president and the company he used to run used some fuzzy math during the days the vice president ran it. Another lawsuit for the man who once reportedly sued his own mother, we'll talk with Mr. Klayman tonight; all of that in the hour ahead.
We begin with a question that is somewhat impossible to answer yet irresistible to consider when talking about our lead story tonight. If the pilots on September 11 had been armed, could they have stopped the terrorists? That question is sort the emotional backdrop for the debate that went on in the House today. In the end, the House overwhelmingly backed those pilots who believe they will be safer and that their planes and passengers will be safer if they are allowed to carry guns in the cockpit. The Senate is likely to be less receptive to the idea. The administration isn't keen on it either, but the House has spoken, and what would have seemed like a far-fetched idea a year ago took a step toward reality today; once again, CNN's Patty Davis.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVIS (voice over): A videotape demonstration sent to members of Congress, hijackers breaking into the cockpit brought down by gun- toting pilots, part of the lobbying blitz by the Allied Pilots Association and other groups pushing for guns in the cockpit, crucial they say to stopping future terrorist attacks.
CAPT. TRACY PRICE, AIRLINE PILOTS SECURITY ALLIANCE: Once those terrorists come through that cockpit door, there's going to be a fight, a life and death struggle in that cockpit. The pilots have to win.
REP. BILL SHUSTER (R), PENNSYLVANIA: On this vote, the yeas are 310, the nays are 113, and the bill is passed.
DAVIS: And the pilots did win the gun battle in the House.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it's time we allow the pilots to be the last line of defense of our planes, rather than the current alternative, to shoot the plane out of the sky.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If we have one more incident, it will be fatal to airlines. If we have one more incident, it will be fatal to our economy.
DAVIS: Originally limited to arming just two percent of pilots during a two-year test period, the bill was expanded to all pilots who want them, no time limit.
REP. PETER DEFAZIO (D), OREGON: If it's good enough for two percent of the pilots, why not all the pilots?
DAVIS: It would also make self defense training mandatory for flight attendants, but opponents argue that pilots should leave the shooting to air marshals and concentrate on flying.
ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON (D), DC DELEGATE: The armed pilot is a very dangerous resort that risks passengers and planes.
REP. EDDIE BERNICE JOHNSON (D), TEXAS: Two pilots were arrested for being drunk as they were getting ready to go fly a plane. I would have hated to have had them have lethal weapons.
DAVIS: The drive to arm pilots faces difficult going in the Senate, but has gained an important supporter, Democrat Barbara Boxer.
SENATOR BARBARA BOXER (D), CALIFORNIA: Indeed, it is a matter of life and death.
(END VIDEOTAPE) DAVIS: The White House remains opposed. The focus there is on increasing the number of air marshals and beefing up screening for passengers and baggage and strengthening those cockpit doors. The fear is that pilots will become targets because hijackers know they have guns. Also, the terrorists could use pilots' guns against them and others -- Aaron.
BROWN: I'm curious about a couple of things. I know the Airline Pilots Association has been supportive. Do we know what percentage of pilots in fact want to be armed in the cockpit?
DAVID: Well, the Airline Pilots Association has put out surveys in the range of about 70 percent, saying that they favor being armed, so these are the numbers that they give us.
BROWN: And just slightly off point here, do we know how many planes or what percentage of the flights each day have air marshals on them?
DAVIS: Well, that's a good question. Those numbers are really kept close to the vest by the Transportation Security Administration. We know that it's still a small, a very small number, and it's ratcheting up as fast as they can get them going. But, the pilots here are arguing that there are never going to be enough air marshals on their flights, and they need to have some kind of defense, because hijackers can smuggle weapons through somehow.
They can break into the cockpit, even though those are fortified cockpit doors, and they say if the hijackers do break into the cockpit they're dead, and so even if the pilots' guns are going to be taken away from them, at least they have some kind of chance to fight the hijackers. That's what they're arguing, Aaron.
BROWN: That's an interesting merging of policy and emotion, Patty thank you, Patty Davis, who covers the airline industry and the airline regulation business for us. Across the rotunda, Senators spent the day debating and voting on parts of the bill that target companies that cook their books. The main bill is sponsored by Paul Sarbanes, a senior Democratic Senator from Maryland.
It goes beyond what the president laid out on Wall Street yesterday, but this whole thing is now moving like a tsunami, in part because the stock market no longer believes in the honesty of balance sheets, and in part because Election Day is coming and who wants to be the one seen as soft on corporate thieves?
Here again, CNN's Jonathan Karl.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KARL (voice over): A day after the president's Wall Street speech, the Senate unanimously passed his proposals and more in back- to-back votes. The measures would make security fraud a felony, punishable by up to ten years in prison; offer greater protection for corporate whistleblowers; include new "anti-shredding" provisions; and extend the statute of limitations in fraud cases. All this was included as amendments to an accounting reform bill that is expected to pass the Senate as early as this week.
But even with the widespread agreement, the bickering goes on. Top Senate Democrat Tom Daschle again accused the Republicans of delaying reforms. Across the capitol, the House's number two Republican lashed back.
REP. DICK ARMEY (R), TEXAS: As angry as I am at those captains of industry that put themselves ahead of their stockholders, ahead of their employees, and I had indeed of the confidence that we should hold in this economy, I'm that angry, Tom Daschle, with you for putting your next election ahead of the action that you repeatedly have called for. You're out of line. Get it together.
KARL: Democrats watched with great interest as one-time Clinton nemesis Larry Klayman of Judicial Watch announced a lawsuit against Vice President Cheney for his role as the CEO of the Halliburton Corporation, which is under investigation by the Securities and Exchange Commission for allegedly inflating its profits through its accounting procedures while Cheney was CEO.
LARRY KLAYMAN, JUDICIAL WATCH: If we can show, and we're confident that we will, that Vice President Cheney broke the law, then that will set an example, a much better example than the president with his rhetoric tried to set yesterday on Wall Street that indeed everyone will be held accountable for these kinds of excesses.
KARL: The White House dismissed the lawsuit as without merit.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KARL: Some Democrats think they'll strike political gold with the Halliburton charges. Some party strategists have told me that they think it's only a matter of time before Democrats in Congress come out and ask for the appointment of a special prosecutor to investigate Halliburton.
The argument they'll make, I'm told, is that Bush's administration and his SEC simply does not have the credibility to investigate a company that was once run by Dick Cheney. Now, Aaron, for their part, Republicans say Democrats are simply overplaying their hand as they acknowledge their party frequently did during the Clinton scandals. Aaron.
BROWN: I feel like I've seen this movie before, just different characters. We'll talk with Larry Klayman in a little while on the program. Let me go back to the bill for a second. Sitting an hour away by plane here in New York, I have a feeling that this thing is just rolling now in the Senate, and that while back a few months back when we were talking about Enron and things didn't really move, this thing is running towards passage.
KARL: Absolutely, and many of these things as you know, Aaron, are things that were talked about during the Enron situation and simply went nowhere. Then WorldCom happened and boom, this stuff is on a fast track, and a lot of those Republicans that opposed it, simply are just getting out of the way. They don't think they have a chance of stopping it.
BROWN: And, are they getting out of the way but voting no, or are they getting out of the way and voting yes because they want to be on the record?
KARL: By and large, getting out of the way and voting yes. You're going to see a handful of no votes against final passage on this bill, but there are going to be more than 80 votes, I'm told, in favor of this bill.
BROWN: And then it goes to conference and we'll see what happens there. We'll talk with John McCain a little bit later. Thank you, Jon. We'll talk with John McCain a little bit later on the bill, including the possibility of what might happen in Congress, in the conference committee. McCain seems to have the unique talent for getting under the skin of presidents, certainly this president.
Among the things we'll talk to him about is his proposal, his idea that the head of the SEC, Harvey Pitt, who came out of the accounting industry, and now regulates it, that he should resign. Our conversation with the Senator a little bit later.
One more news-of-day item here. This is a great story. Who would have thought that we'd be able to talk about buried treasures two nights in a row on the program? Last night if you were with us, we had the story of the extraordinary discovery of a Michelangelo drawing gathering decades of dust in a closet at a museum here in New York. Tonight, it is sunken treasure, and a bit of history with it. A piece of an old World War II patrol boat commanded by a young Navy lieutenant, well not just any young Navy lieutenant, this one was named John Fitzgerald Kennedy.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN (voice over): It may have been, as one naval historian put it, a relatively small engagement in a very big two ocean war, but then again, a future president was at the heart of it.
After 60 years, explorer Robert Ballard says he and his crew have discovered what they believe are the remains of John F. Kennedy's destroyed PT-boat, the PT-109. They found a torpedo and what's left of a torpedo tube deep under the Pacific off the Solomon Islands at about the point where the PT-109 went down in 1943.
BOB BENSON, CHIEF ENGINEER, RET, PT-65: Well, the weather was clear. There just wasn't any moon at that particular time. It was about eleven o'clock. The moon rise was probably later on, two, three o'clock in the morning.
BROWN: Bob Benson was in Blackett Strait that night when the Japanese destroyer rammed Kennedy's boat.
BENSON: Nobody spotted him. He came out of a river that was heavily foliaged and it was only a matter of 120 yards from the beach where he nailed him. BROWN: Ballard and his team used three different underwater search vehicles, and he says that although the approximate location of the sinking was known, underwater currents were so strong that actually finding the PT-109 was like, "conducting a search in the Sahara Desert during a blinding sandstorm."
Kennedy was a 26-year-old lieutenant when his boat sank. He and ten of his crew managed to swim to safety to a nearby island, an island now named after the late president. Ballard showed his tape to naval historians who said, even though the boat itself has not been found, the wreckage most likely is that of the PT-109.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: As NEWSNIGHT continues, what were they thinking at the All Star Game last night? At the end of the program, Keith Olbermann joins us for his thoughts. Up next, can the president and the Congress together do anything to keep the stock market from sinking further? This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Oh, ho hum. The market took another dive today, the Dow dropping 282 points, closing below 9,000. The NASDAQ sold off as well. Whatever other reasons there may be for the slide, and there are more than a few, it is fair to say the president's speech has done little to turn thing around.
Topic A on Wall Street continues to be uncertainty about earnings and a gnawing fear that without tougher accounting rules and penalties, investors may just decide that putting their money in the market is chasing fool's gold. They haven't learned that yet. Among those calling for tough laws to go with the tough talk New York Times Chief Financial Correspondent Floyd Norris, who joins us tonight. It's nice to meet you.
FLOYD NORRIS, CHIEF FINANCIAL CORRESPONDENT, NEW YORK TIMES: Thank you.
BROWN: Your column today, which is on the front page of the Times, and then you have to go looking for it back in the business page, said while the president sounded tough, his proposals themselves were less than tough, fair?
NORRIS: I think so. He was - the rhetoric was very, very harsh but the program, when you cut through it, is a rotten apple's program. It says hey, there's a few rotten apples in the barrel. We need to go after them, but there's nothing basically wrong with the system and the proposals, he endorsed the House bill sort of without getting too specific, which is very mild.
He sets up his new accounting regulatory organization that will be largely controlled by the accountants, and doesn't do much in many other areas. I think he was hoping that he could put a stop to some of the harsher provisions in the Senate.
BROWN: Yes.
NORRIS: By sounding tough. At least today, it didn't work. What we're seeing in the Senate today is provisions being passed unanimously that two weeks ago were viewed as hopeless.
BROWN: Yes, they've been filibustered to death at best.
NORRIS: Oh, at best, and wouldn't have gotten out of committee.
BROWN: Yes.
NORRIS: There's been an incredible change in sentiment on this after the WorldCom disaster, and we'll see what happens now. You know, a very tough bill is likely to pass the Senate. What happens in conference committee will be interesting.
BROWN: Yes, the Wall Street Journal, on the editorial page today, made the argument, made a couple but one is that in the end you can pass all these laws and they may or they may not help, though the Journal tends to believe they will not. In the end, business has to solve this problem. Business created it. Is it a systemic problem, or is it just a fairly good-sized barrel of bad apples?
NORRIS: I think it's a little of both. You've got - you created tremendous - the president said this yesterday and was right, tremendous incentives during the '90s to cheat. The rewards, given all the stock options, given how much stocks would go up if they appeared to have growth, the rewards could be phenomenal. There were executives who took hundreds of millions of dollars out by selling stock, and then saw the company collapse. Hundreds of millions are numbers we've never seen before in business in this country for individual people.
BROWN: The president did not call for expensing options yesterday, at least I didn't hear it.
NORRIS: No, his position has been against that.
BROWN: And he didn't change it yesterday?
NORRIS: No.
BROWN: What does the market need, do you think, right now?
NORRIS: You know, forecasting the stock market is something I've tried to do over the years without complete success. I think at the moment, it does need a little confidence. It would be nice if we could go a week without having another company fall apart.
BROWN: Yes, that seems like a minimum standard.
NORRIS: Yes. It would also - the economic news is not that bad. The economy is kicking along, probably at a two percent growth rate, maybe a little better, nothing like what we saw in the late '90s, but it's not a recession either.
BROWN: Yes.
NORRIS: But at the same time there's nervousness over that and there's, you know, a lack of confidence about what is going to be done. I think people are paralyzed. You haven't seen that much selling by people. There's one poll in which the overwhelming majority said they didn't trust the companies.
BROWN: Well, somebody's selling.
NORRIS: Six percent of them said they hadn't sold any stock yet. Yes, sure somebody is selling and somebody is buying.
BROWN: Right.
NORRIS: Prices are down. New money is not being committed.
BROWN: Got it. It's just, money's being shuffled around.
NORRIS: Everybody has a 401 (k) now or many people do. How many people have called their brokers? Have you called your broker and said, I want to change my allocation of my 401 (k) money? If you haven't, you're probably putting new money into the stock market every week or every month.
BROWN: Yes. Thanks for coming in. It's nice to meet you.
NORRIS: Nice to be here.
BROWN: I hope you'll come back and see us sometime.
NORRIS: Thank you very much.
BROWN: Floyd Norris, the Chief Financial Correspondent for the New York Times tonight.
A couple of other items making news around the country today, and a roundup beginning with the case of Elizabeth Smart, Elizabeth's father said today that he'd received an anonymous letter suggesting that someone wants to negotiate for her release. Edward Smart said it is not a ransom note and he confessed he does not know how credible this letter is. Investigators are not certain either, but they do say they are looking into it.
From Albany, Georgia, an emotional end to a fascinating murder trial. The jury convicted Sidney Dorsey, the former DeKalb County Sheriff, of ordering the murder of the man who ousted him in a bitter election two years ago. Derwin Brown was ambushed and shot just days before he was to be sworn in as sheriff. His family, as you saw, was in the courtroom today as the verdict was read.
And, the latest now from Inglewood, California, the case of the young Black teenager and the White police officer seen punching him on videotape. This tape has been played a million times now, hasn't it?
Attorneys for the teenager and his father filed a federal suit today, saying their civil rights were violated. The two were together at a gas station when they encountered Inglewood Police last weekend. Police say the man was hit because he wouldn't follow commands and was resisting arrest. Meanwhile, the police department said it is looking into a second complaint of a police beating, an incident that occurred late last month.
Coming up on NEWSNIGHT, a tie at the All Star Game, that's where this will end tonight; up next though the man who is suing the vice president. This is NEWSNIGHT from New York.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Larry Klayman is a full-service pain in the rear. He spent much of the Clinton years suing the president, the president's wife, and a fair number of others in the White House.
So, if you thought the change in administrations meant the end of Mr. Klayman, you were not listening carefully. He has sued the administration for the release of Vice President Cheney's Energy Task Force notes, and now today, sued the vice president and the company the vice president used to run, Halliburton, for fraud, cooking the books essentially.
The company says it's all nonsense, though that is not the first time Mr. Klayman and his group, Judicial Watch, has heard that. Mr. Klayman joins us from Miami tonight. It's nice to see you.
LARRY KLAYMAN, GENERAL COUNSEL, JUDICIAL WATCH: Aaron, thanks for inviting us.
BROWN: Thank you for joining us. The White House kind of gave this thing the back of the hand today, said without merit. What do you make?
KLAYMAN: Well, that's what you'd expect under these circumstances, but you know that in and of itself, Aaron, shows the sensitivity, the defensiveness because it's very unusual for a president to comment on an ongoing legal proceeding. In fact, it's considered to be improper.
What he was, in effect, doing was signaling his Securities and Exchange Commissioner Harvey Pitt not to look into Halliburton. He was signaling his Justice Department, under John Ashcroft, not to investigate, and he was talking to the court and the jury in our case, and frankly it's improper and it shows that there's something there. Where there's smoke, there's fire.
BROWN: That is the most cynical take you could possibly make, the dismiss it without merit, would you agree with that?
KLAYMAN: Well, not coming from the president you see. Now the president should not be intervening in private matters. Just yesterday, Aaron, he said he's going to let the chips fall where they may and no matter who's involved, they're going to be held accountable.
Now, he's saying on behalf of Vice President Cheney, and he's accountable for his own vice president, that there's no merit. Yesterday, he was saying he was going to investigate, so what is it? It shows a certain hypocrisy.
BROWN: As simply as you can state it here, what is it that you believe you will find?
KLAYMAN: Well, as we set forth in the complaint, what Halliburton did was, is that they categorized his profits, certain transactions that were in dispute, and that resulted in an overvaluation of the shares.
Now, they did not disclose to the buying public that they made this change in accounting principles and this was such a significant change that it had to have been discussed and, in fact, passed upon by Vice President Cheney.
As the complaint also says, and you can see it on our Web site at judicialwatch.org, the vice president has done promotional videos for Arthur Andersen. He said they were a creative accounting firm. Well, I guess they really were creative.
Unfortunately, as alleged in the complaint, it was a creative fraud.
BROWN: Now, whether it was a fraud or not -- that's the allegation, we'll find out -- the vice president has said...
KLAYMAN: That's right.
BROWN: ... or the vice president's office has said, and Halliburton has said that whatever accounting changes they made, that the vice president, when he was the guy running the company, did not know about them.
KLAYMAN: Well, and if you believe that, we're in deep trouble in the war against terrorism. This is a hands-on vice president. He is the de facto president. And he runs this country, in effect. He's a very sharp guy. He's known for his hands-on management style, particularly when he was secretary of defense during the Persian Gulf War.
This is not someone who lets go of the reins of power. And even as CEO, he's legally responsible for what went on at Halliburton.
BROWN: Someone raised an interesting -- what at least to me was an interesting question. In talking about, they said, Look, why, Larry, are you doing this? The country's at war. The economy is fragile. The market, stock market's worse than fragile. The last thing the administration needs is to be distracted by this, to have to deal with what in this person's view was a frivolous lawsuit.
KLAYMAN: Aaron, the...
BROWN: Are you concerned about any of those things?
KLAYMAN: No. In fact, Aaron, I'm glad you asked the question, because in the words of John Adams, perhaps our greatest American president, our second president, he said, "Statesmen, my dear sir" -- he said this 13 days before the Declaration of Independence was signed -- "you can change your rulers and your forms of government many times, but without ethics and morality, you will not have liberty."
And unless we have an honest government that we can trust, and more than ever we need to trust the vice president and the president, then you will not have a strong nation. And to allow corruption to continue in our government -- and this is a president and vice president who, after the Clinton years, said, Move on, we now know what they meant, they didn't want anyone looked at, whether it was Democrat or Republican, everybody scratches everybody's back in Washington, D.C.
The American people have lost trust. And today on your network you have -- on your Internet site at cnn.com, "MONEYLINE," you've asked the question, Lou Dobbs asked it, Should the vice president answer questions? It's running 94 percent yes. That's, in effect, an endorsement of this Judicial Watch lawsuit that we're going to make the vice president answer questions and be held accountable under the rule of law.
BROWN: About 20 seconds. I assume the next thing we do is discovery, and do you intend to depose the vice president?
KLAYMAN: Oh, absolutely. And of course the vice president will have very good lawyers, and I'm sure he'll be able to defend himself. And let the jury decide whether or not there was a fraud committed here. But at least the American people will know, and our clients will get justice, that in fact all the facts came out, and that the right decision was made by a court of law.
BROWN: Larry, it's good to talk to you. I suspect you don't get invited to any of those Washington dinner parties any more by anyone.
KLAYMAN: As Groucho Marx said, Aaron, I wouldn't want to be a member of a club that would have me as a member.
BROWN: Thank you, Larry, it's nice to talk to you.
KLAYMAN: You're welcome.
BROWN: Larry Klayman of Judicial Watch, sued the vice president and Halliburton today.
Still to come on NEWSNIGHT, we'll talk with Senator John McCain about clearing up and cleaning up America's boardrooms.
Up next, an update on the trial of the men accused in the kidnapping and the murder of "Wall Street Journal" reporter Danny Pearl.
This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BROWN: A judge in Hyderabad, Pakistan, is now deciding the fate of four men charged with kidnapping and murdering "Wall Street Journal" reporter Danny Pearl. The trial was long and somewhat convoluted, would probably be seen as legally iffy in this country. A number of the suspects, other suspects, have yet to be caught.
So even if justice is done when the judge issues his ruling, it will only be partial justice, it seems, for Danny Pearl and his family.
Here's CNN's Tom Mintier.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TOM MINTIER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was a trial that was thought to only last for seven days. Now, nearly 12 weeks later, is over. All that remains is the verdict from the judge.
Wednesday brought defense lawyers and the chief prosecutor to the court for the last time.
RAJA QUERESHI, CHIEF PROSECUTOR: We are demanding death for all the four accused.
MINTIER: The accused all claim they are innocent of the charges against them. The charges are the kidnapping and murder of Daniel Pearl and terrorist activities. As the trial concluded, defense attorneys claimed the evidence against the four defendants was manufactured by the government.
RAI BASHIR, DEFENSE LAWYER: I telling the whole persons having the legal conscious of the whole world, let they come and see the prosecution evidence. There is absolutely not even a single chance about the conviction of the accused in this case.
MINTIER: The judge in this case, the third since it started in late April, has announced that he will deliver his verdict as early as Monday and ordered the lawyers to return to court next week to hear it.
The trial started in April. Reporters were barred from the courtroom for all sessions but were able to see the defendants, including Sheikh Omar, brought in for each day of trial.
All four men claimed to be innocent despite confessions at earlier court proceedings, confessions the defense attorneys claim were only provided after their clients were tortured by police.
The only eyewitness evidence presented by the prosecution was taxi driver Nassir Abas (ph), who police say dropped Daniel Pearl off at a Karachi restaurant for a meeting.
Defense attorneys claim that Abas never saw the defendants, and his testimony does not implicate their clients.
After Pearl vanished, e-mails and these photographs were sent to some news organizations demanding improved conditions for suspected Taliban and al Qaeda prisoners being held in Cuba by the U.S. military. The FBI reportedly traced the e-mails to one of the defendants.
A body believed to be that of Daniel Pearl was found in a shallow grave in Karachi in May, but so far DNA tests that were conducted to establish a confirmed identity have not been made public.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
The trial may be over, but the appeal process could be a lengthy one. The last person put to death under capital punishment here was in February 2001. That case was 10 years old.
Now, there is the possibility that there'll be an extradition to the United States. One of the defendants is wanted in the United States on a kidnapping charge that occurred in India of an American citizen. But that is way down the road. Pakistan says it will probably punish them first. Aaron.
BROWN: Is there a lot of public interest in Pakistan in the case?
MINTIER: Well, there seems to have been a lot of interest during the trial. But this morning's paper had the conclusion of the trial on the back page in a rather small column. Attention here is now turning to elections that are now announced and scheduled for the 10th of October. So people are looking at what the government of Pakistan will be rather than what it might do.
BROWN: Tom, thank you. Tom Mintier in Islamabad on the Danny Pearl story.
A few other stories from around the world tonight, almost all of them less grim, we are pleased to say. We begin in England, where pot smokers may soon have one less reason to be paranoid. Prime Minister Tony Blair today floated a plan to ease Britain's marijuana laws. If parliament approves, police would keep the authority to make arrests, but in most cases would simply confiscate the pot and issue a warning.
Members of The Who, only two original members left, took a break from their U.S. tour and flew back home to England to pay final respects to their bassist, a great bassist, John Entwistle. He died late last month in Las Vegas, apparently a heart attack. Today's funeral was private. A public memorial for the man they called the Ox planned for later this year.
And watch closely here. In Lithuania, it's not enough to have the longest beard, it helps to have the strongest beard as well. And this man does. Not only can he tow a Jeep with his beard -- and doesn't that come in handy often -- he can also pick up girls with it. I mean this literally. He's in the "Guinness Book of World Records" for lifting a girl, a woman, with his beard, 135 pounds she weighed.
And his secret to this? He says he owes it all to beer, beer, and to more beer. It's an educational program in its own little way, isn't it?
Still ahead on NEWSNIGHT, the All Star game. Keith Olbermann in in a bit.
Up next, John McCain about America's boardrooms and what needs to be done.
This is NEWSNIGHT.
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BROWN: That beard thing was sort of creepy, wasn't it?
Senator John McCain -- now, there's a transition -- the senator has a way of causing trouble, often within his own party. He did it with campaign finance reform, and now he's doing it with corporate skullduggery. I love that word.
In "The New York Times" the other day, he called for the head of the SEC to resign, that is the same head of the SEC the president has been backing to the hilt. He's called for measures far tougher than most of his fellow Republicans.
But while many have panned the president's speech yesterday on Wall Street, Senator McCain has not joined that chorus exactly. We talked with John McCain late this afternoon.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN (on camera): Senator, you wrote the other day that Harvey Pitt, the head of the SEC, has to go. The guy's hardly had a chance to take his coat off in his office. He hasn't been there that long. Is that symbolic or real?
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: I think it's partially both, because I think right now there's a tremendous crisis in confidence on the part of the American people about Wall Street, about how they're being regulated and policed. And Mr. Pitt has a record. His past life, he was the defender of these same organizations that have committed such egregious offenses.
And he started out his tour saying it was going to be a kinder and gentler SEC. He's resisted legislation such as the bill we're considering on the floor of the Senate. And in my view, he's probably a good man, but right now Americans need a person that they can have total confidence in, and that's not the case with Mr. Pitt.
BROWN: The president has resisted to considerable degree the bill that's being tossed around in the Senate, the Sarbanes bill, because that's the bill you're talking about.
MCCAIN: I think the president is now agreeing to most of the provisions of the Sarbanes bill.
BROWN: Well, the market, obviously, and it's not reasonable to say this is all a reaction to the president's speech, the markets had two terrible days since the speech. What didn't you hear in the speech that you wish you had heard?
MCCAIN: I heard a good, strong message from the president that I think was important. I think it was an effective use of the bully pulpit. I think it's now up to the administration and the Congress to work together to bring about the reforms that are necessary.
So I'm not sure all the reasons why Wall Street has gone down so badly the last couple of days, but I think they're external factors, including more unfolding problems such as information that Qwest is under criminal investigation.
BROWN: You know, up until recently, the president had talked about, There are a few bad apples out there. If you listen to people like you and others now, you're really talking about something that's much more complicated than a few bad actors, that there are fundamental, systemic problems.
What are they? How do you solve them, if you can solve them? And can Congress, given how much money it's taken over the years from the various players, be expected to solve it?
MCCAIN: Well, we'll be very interesting to see whether Congress solves it or not, including what happens when this legislation goes into conference with the House to see what comes out of it, because it'll be done by a few people behind closed doors.
Yes, there are systemic problems, and they, frankly, are the result of corporate greed. The listing of stock options -- not listing the stock options as compensation, as an expenditure, which it clearly is, which then makes the bottom line of any corporation deceptive, the fact that there's not a clear and bright line between auditing and other services provided, the fact that this board that is now being contemplated is not completely independent of the SEC.
There should be a requirement that a corporate CEO could not cash in their stocks until 90 days after they've left the corporation.
There's a number of measures that need to be implemented. One amendment we just passed today extended the statute of limitations to five years, because sometimes it takes several years to uncover this kind of wrongdoing.
BROWN: The -- I gather the other side of this is trying to strike a balance between the appropriate regulation that allows business to be successful, that allows it to be productive, and enough regulation so that you're able to stop the kind of excesses we've been dealing with.
Are we in danger of going too far, or does the process -- and part of this is the money that's spent in Congress -- does the process guarantee that that's not the concern?
MCCAIN: I think it's always a concern, Aaron, particularly when we act under this kind of stressful situation that we're in today. But I would hope that we would err on the side of doing what's right, because we need to restore confidence.
We have talked before on other matters about the attention span of those of us in the media and Americans generally. Do you think this is an issue that six weeks from now we'll be talking about, or will we have moved on to something else and this will be just a summer blip?
MCCAIN: Well, what I hope is that we will have enacted legislation that satisfies the American people, they -- the American investor and restores confidences on the part of the American people. What I think is going to happen is, I think we're going to see more scandals. I think this may be with us for a while.
BROWN: Senator McCain, it's always a pleasure talking to you. Thank you very much.
MCCAIN: Thank you, Aaron.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Senator John McCain. We talked with him earlier this afternoon.
Still ahead on NEWSNIGHT, Keith Olbermann joins us to talk about the All Star game and the brilliant people who run the national pastime.
This is NEWSNIGHT.
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BROWN: Finally from us tonight, back to the beginning, baseball and the All Star game -- or, fiasco for short. To quickly recap, they called the game a tie, 7-7 in the 11th, when the manager said they had no more pitchers.
Besides, it was late, the guys had played two, three innings each, everyone was pretty tired. Time to call it a night and go home.
NEWSNIGHT contributor Keith Olbermann is here. He has a lot more reasons than I to be upset, because he actually watches these games. I just read the box scores in the morning.
Mr. Olbermann?
KEITH OLBERMANN, NEWSNIGHT CONTRIBUTOR: This is the worst baseball controversy in nearly three days. Of all of the All Star games, this one might have been the most symbolically important. It was the hoped-for distraction from a possible strike or a lockout and a steroid scandal and escalating friction between the business and its customers. This was supposed to be the fans' game.
Instead, under the gloom of a prospective labor action that could result in calling off the rest of the games, baseball actually wound up calling off the rest of the game.
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OLBERMANN (voice-over): Booing? We were probably lucky the fans didn't riot.
BUD SELIG, COMMISSIONER OF MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL: There was so much going on so quickly.
OLBERMANN: Who knew there could be extra innings in a baseball game?
Fearing Vicente Padilla of the National League and Freddy Garcia of the American might have been injured or prevented for making their next schedule appearance for their regular season teams, with no contingency plan, no emergency pitchers available, the managers, umpires, and Commissioner Selig turned the game from All Star to No Result.
Run out of players? Run out on the fans.
BASEBALL ANNOUNCER: Game over.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it just totally blows. I mean, not that it really matters. I mean, the game is insignificant, it has no bearing on the standings. But I didn't come here all, you know, this -- I came 1,000 miles to come to this game to watch a game for four and a half hours and end up kissing my sister.
OLBERMANN: None of the 19 pitchers appeared for more than two innings, in part to protect their multimillion-dollar arms, in part to protect their multimillion-dollar egos.
SELIG: It was a very sad experience for me. I can't tell you how sad is it. I've spent a very lonely and sad evening.
OLBERMANN: No All Star manager wants to offend a player today by bringing him two the game and not letting him play. This is a very new phenomena. Just five years ago, six healthy All Star pitchers simply sat and watched, held in reserve, just in case the game was so exciting, so hotly contended, that they had to play extra innings.
In 1967, the game went a record 15 innings. Not only did the American League's Jim "Catfish" Hunter pitch the last five, but when that game ended, there were still three more AL pitchers left in the bullpen in case it went even longer.
Officials did have the presence of mind not to award the newly named Ted Williams trophy for the game's most valuable player. Williams took his 18 All Star game appearances so seriously that in the 1950 game in Chicago, he crashed elbow-first into an outfield wall, making a catch in the top of the first inning. Williams played until the 10th inning, then had the elbow examined. He had fractured it so severely that surgery was required.
In the midst of the furor over whether or not to preserve his remains, it is safe to say that had Williams known of an award to be given in his honor in a game abandoned to preserve the arms of two little-known pitchers, he would have turned over in his tube.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
OLBERMANN: If you like ominous addenda, as you and I know Aaron does, there is also this. The nadir of baseball's labor strike came in 1890, when the players went out on strike, formed their own league. Fans of the day were so embittered that when Louisville beat Brooklyn to tie that year's World Series at three wins apiece, only 300 people attended, and the series was called off, abandoned, declared a tie, just like this year's All Star game.
Within weeks, one of baseball's three major leagues went bankrupt, a second would follow a year later, and the World Series would not be played again until the following century.
Something to look forward to.
BROWN: You know what was especially sad for me, because it was also the day that Mr. Selig combed his hair. It was -- you know, he does that once a year, and to have it turn...
OLBERMANN: His big ceremony, yes.
BROWN: ... to turn out badly like that...
OLBERMANN: Yes, and it -- it lasted for two days, though. At least there was that good news.
BROWN: Thank you. It's a great thing we put you on the payroll last Tuesday, kept the (UNINTELLIGIBLE). Thank you for coming in.
And thank you for joining us. Come back tomorrow, 10:00 Eastern time. Till then, good night for all of us at NEWSNIGHT.
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