Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown

Moussaoui Attempts to Plead Guilty; Investigation of 5-Year- Old's Murder Continues; Inglewood Policemen Charged With Felonies

Aired July 18, 2002 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, HOST: Good evening again. That's how it always begins. There is a story in this program tonight that should not be here. It isn't the one about Zacarias Moussaoui; he's a notorious character who admitted more or less today that he was in league with the men who wounded this country so badly on the 11th of September, and so he certainly belongs in the program.

So do the movers and shakers like Robert Pittman, the chief operating officer of AOL Time Warner, our parent company. With the stock in the tank and the bloom off the merger rose, Mr. Pittman, who we like a lot, resigned today. He belongs in the program.

So does Vice President Cheney, a former CEO, who trumpeted his time as a CEO when he was a candidate, and may now find tat his corporate experience hangs a bit heavy around his neck. We'll talk about that later too.

Also belonging in the program is the police officer who was videotaped beating up a black teenager in Inglewood, California. That case is in court, and we'll report on it. These stories all belong in the program.

The one that doesn't, the one we wish wasn't here is the story of Samantha Runnion, who was too young to even be up at this hour, much less to be a headline in the program. There should not be news stories about murdered 5-year-old children. But this child was kidnapped and murdered, and no one has been charged, and we have to report it, and will, and our heart will break, and we'll hate every single second of it.

On we go tonight with The Whip, and we begin with the case of Zacarias Moussaoui and what an odd day in court it was again. Deborah Feyerick covering. Deborah, the headline, please.

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, suspected terrorist Zacarias Moussaoui stunning the court by attempting to plead guilty. The judge gave him a week to think it over -- Aaron.

BROWN: Deborah. California next, Samantha Runnion, and the case, the leads and it all, David Mattingly on for us. David, the headline from you tonight.

DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, thousands of tips. Numerous leads, and now rumor control as the hunt for a killer continues here in Southern California.

BROWN: David, thank you. Inglewood, California, next. The young black teenager, the videotape and the police officer. Frank Buckley is working that story. So, Frank, your headline tonight.

FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, two officers involved in that controversial videotaped arrest in Inglewood now stand charged with felonies. And the 16-year-old boy who was hit by the officers has a new attorney, Johnnie Cochran -- Aaron.

BROWN: Frank, thank you, and as we said, big doings at AOL Time Warner today. Allan Chernoff covers business for us, and covered this as well. Allan, your headline.

ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN FINANCIAL NEWS CORRESPONDENT: A shake-up in the executive suite at AOL Time Warner. Chief Operating Officer Bob Pittman stepping down. We will have an update on the merger between AOL and Time Warner.

BROWN: Allan, thank you.

Back with all of you shortly. Also coming up in the program, Dick Cheney. Not Dick Cheney the vice president, Dick Cheney the CEO. Who he was as a businessman, the executive resume. We'll take a look at that tonight. Our senior White House correspondent John King reports that.

So there is much to do before we say good night. It begins in a court in Northern Virginia. "I am guilty," is what Zacarias Moussaoui said in court today. And that, you would think, would be that. End of story. Only, it isn't all over, not nearly. For one, the judge refused to accept the plea; for another, even if she had, there would still have to be a jury impaneled because the Supreme Court has ruled a judge alone can't issue a death sentence; a jury must. What is less clear tonight is what the so-called 20th hijacker is actually thinking, if he is actually thinking at all. Here's CNN's Deborah Feyerick.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FEYERICK (voice-over): Frustrated by what he called "farcical justice," Zacarias Moussaoui told a packed courtroom: "I am guilty." A plea he said he wanted to enter to save himself from the death penalty.

Ignoring the judge's attempts to cut him off, Moussaoui admitted being part of al Qaeda, and swearing a loyalty oath to Osama bin Laden. Moussaoui has denied taking part in the September 11 attacks, but acknowledged: "I know exactly who done it. I know which group, I know who participated and when it was decided."

DICK SAUBER, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: It seems to me that if, in fact, he was a member of al Qaeda and was involved even peripherally in any of the planning or preparation for September 11, his information could be invaluable. FEYERICK: Moussaoui told the judge he had been part of an ongoing conspiracy since 1995 and that he had information for the American people. The judge advised him to take it up with prosecutors, possibly as part of a plea deal. To date, the government has offered no such deal.

After his guilty plea, Moussaoui asked the judge for a trial as soon as possible so a jury could determine the extent of his guilt. Judge Leonie Brinkema warned Moussaoui he could not pick and choose what he would plead guilty to, saying it would have to be to all the government's charges. They include terrorism conspiracy and conspiracy to murder U.S. nationals.

Moussaoui is acting as his own lawyer. One of his stand-by attorneys tells CNN, "if you went over the indictment with him line by line, I don't believe he'd agree to all of the charges." This is the third time Moussaoui has been arraigned. The first time, he refused to enter a plea. The second time, he pleaded no contest. And now the attempted guilty plea. The judge told Moussaoui she'd give him a week to think about it.

MARK HULKOWER, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: She wanted to make sure that this wasn't just another lurch, just another sudden shift, because once you enter a plea in federal court, the chances of withdrawing it are very slim.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FEYERICK: Moussaoui appeared more agitated than he has in past hearings. When the judge finally got a word in, Moussaoui threw his hands in the air as if to surrender, saying he was afraid U.S. marshals might jump him. After about 30 seconds, the judge convinced him he'd be OK.

And there are still lots of questions. Will the government offer a deal in exchange for information? Will a jury be impaneled to decide the death penalty? And will Moussaoui actually plead guilty again? Tune in next week -- Aaron.

BROWN: Yeah, I think tune in next week is about right. Did the prosecutors say anything about all of this today?

FEYERICK: The prosecutors did not. What they did say is that they would accept the guilty plea, but they never offered him any sort of a deal in the past, so it's unclear whether, in fact, this is even a jumping off point for them, or whether Moussaoui is going to have to plead guilty to everything that's in the indictment. And the stakes there are very high.

BROWN: Well, they couldn't be higher. This is a death penalty case.

Deborah, thank you. Deborah Feyerick is working the Moussaoui story.

On to California next. Before we do, let me just briefly mention Nina Totenberg, who is covering this for National Public Radio, NPR, and who's terrific on legal matters and has been for a long time will join us in a little bit to talk more about the Moussaoui case.

Now to California. Samantha Runnion's life was, as you know by now, just beginning. Now, it's over. Nothing more terrible can happen to a child, or to a parent than what happened there in California between the time the 5-year-old Samantha was snatched away, alive, on Monday, and then found dead Tuesday.

The case is in the hands of the police and the FBI and there are leads, but there is no arrest. There is lots of talk. More on the search for Samantha's killer now from CNN's David Mattingly.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The order of the day in the massive search for the killer of young Samantha Runnion: Rumor control. An erroneous report by another news organization of an arrest in the case temporarily chilling a public tip line that has so far produced more than 1,000 leads.

MIKE CARONA, ORANGE COUNTY SHERIFF: There have been no arrests with respect to this case, and we have no confirmed suspects as of this date.

MATTINGLY: Yet authorities report a, quote, "significant number of substantial leads," their eyes on several potential suspects with a history of child sexual abuse, similar in appearance to the now infamous description of a Latino man, 20 to 40 years of age, driving a green car.

CARONA: We were very concerned that this individual could strike again in a relatively short period of time. Whether it's 24 hours, 48 hours, 72 hours, a week, two weeks, this individual is a sexual predator that has a sexual deviancy.

MATTINGLY: Samantha's family reportedly dealing as best they can, as description of how their 5-year-old died on every newscast. Her biological father in Massachusetts, heartbroken, missing his daughter.

DEREK JACKSON, SAMANTHA RUNNION'S FATHER: I will always stay connected with her. She will live in my heart, you know. When I wake up, when I wake up every day, I will think of her and I will think of her when I go to bed at night. I will think of her all day long. I love her dearly. I miss you, Samantha.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY: And so many people getting emotionally involved in this case now, Aaron. It's hard to believe it was just 72 hours ago now that Samantha was last seen playing happily outside of her family's home here in Southern California. Back to you.

BROWN: And all this talk of this guy, whoever he is, is going to strike again, and maybe soon, and maybe tomorrow, and maybe in two week -- it must have the families in these communities in Orange County nuts.

MATTINGLY: Well, the street that Samantha lived on is just over this direction. We're able to see it fairly clearly from where we've been working all day long today. You look out there and you see no children out there playing today. There've been reports on our air, and on the air here in Los Angeles of parents keeping a very close eye on their children -- everyone on edge.

In fact, almost all of southern California adopting this case as their own. Thousands of calls coming into police.

BROWN: David, thank you. David Mattingly in Orange County, California tonight.

A little bit north of there, Inglewood, California next, the case of the police officer caught on videotape hitting the teenager. It is the kind of case that can very easily lead to trouble, of course: A white cop seen hitting a young black teenager; an image seen over and over again. It is easy to make snap judgments after seeing it.

Tonight, the judgment is in the hands of the courts, where it should be -- for all the tape shows, and what it shows, is profoundly troubling -- we do not assume it shows the entire story.

Once again, CNN's Frank Buckley.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BUCKLEY (voice-over): Inglewood police officers Bijan Darvish and Jeremy Morse appeared in court after a grand jury indicted both in connection with this videotaped arrest. Morse, the officer seen slamming 16-year-old Donovan Jackson against the car, then hitting him, was charged with assault by a police officer. Darvish, his partner, was charged with filing a false report.

UNIDENTIFIED JUDGE: Mr. Morse, how do you plead, sir?

JEREMY MORSE, INGLEWOOD POLICE: Not guilty, your honor.

UNIDENTIFIED JUDGE: Mr. Darvish, how do you plead, sir?

BIJAN DARVISH, INGLEWOOD POLICE: Not guilty.

BUCKLEY: Attorneys for both men said they were confident the officers would eventually be acquitted, and that surveillance videos from the gas station where the incident took place will show officers acted within the law.

JOHN BARNETT, MORSE'S ATTORNEY: It was a proper, reasonable use of force given the circumstances. And I think when all the evidence is in, when both videos are shown, that that's what the facts will show.

BUCKLEY: But District Attorney Steve Cooley, who swiftly brought the case before a grand jury, said officers know that a handcuffed suspect should not be hit. STEVE COOLEY, L.A. COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: There's a bright line when the handcuffs go on. That is very definitive. And that's just an observation as a general rule. And I think the rest of the case will be played out in court, and I think that might be something that will be a core issue.

BUCKLEY: The indictment does not specify how Darvish allegedly falsified his report. Nor does it say exactly how Morse allegedly abused his authority.

But Morse's attorney says the three-year veteran of the Inglewood Police Department struck Jackson only after the teenager grabbed his testicles.

JOHN BARNETT, ATTORNEY FOR JEREMY MORSE: And that certainly justifies a punch in the face.

BUCKLEY: Jackson later appeared with his new attorney, former O.J. Simpson lawyer Johnnie Cochran, who applauded the indictments.

JOHNNIE COCHRAN, JACKSON'S ATTORNEY: I think it sends a strong message that when these kind of things happen, a police officer should tell the truth. And we have to be concerned about changing the culture of these communities so that the bad police officers fear the good police officers, and not vice versa.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BUCKLEY: Both officers in this case, Jeremy Morse and Bijan Darvish were booked today. Both posted bail, and neither had to spend any time behind bars for now.

Morse was relieved of duty as soon as the video surfaced last week, but Darvish had continued in his work as a police officer until today. Today Aaron he, too, was relieved of duty and placed on administrative leave -- paid administrative leave.

BROWN: OK, and that was going to be my question. They're both still being paid. This is an issue that came up, I guess it was late last week, when there was a large demonstration, or a demonstration in Inglewood.

But they are both still both being paid. And we assume this is a union question, and what the contracts reads.

BUCKLEY: Yes, and the department says that there's no choice about the decisions that they've made about these officers. This is simply the protocol that they have to take for now.

The investigation, though -- the internal investigation in Inglewood is expected to come to a conclusion in a couple of weeks or so. Then that is forwarded up through the chain in the city. And then we expect to hear some sort of a resolution then.

We don't know exactly what we'll hear, though, because even that is considered part of the personnel package. So it's really going to be up to city leaders there to tell us that.

BROWN: Frank, a very quick question. People followed the Rodney King case, and there's comparison, some things that are different -- know that it was moved out of Los Angeles, up into Simi Valley.

Did the attorneys today talk about trying to get a change of venue in the case?

BUCKLEY: No they didn't. And that, at this point, is one major difference between the cases. This case was, even though these officers were arraigned downtown, already the case has been transferred to Inglewood, where this took place. Now, it could eventually get kicked back or moved to another court, but for now the trial will take place in Inglewood.

BROWN: All right, we'll see what happens and watch the court.

Thank you Frank. Frank Buckley tonight.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, NPR's Nina Totenberg joins us to talk more on the Moussaoui case -- and what a day in court it was.

This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Well, we don't exactly like the word "bedeviled" -- not a very good word for television. But it does seems to fit pretty well in the case of Zacarias Moussaoui. Moussaoui has been bedeviling the courts. His outlandish talk, his insistence that he represent himself to say -- today, rather, seemed to fit the mold pretty well. The judge, who's held up remarkably in this as we heard the story unfold, was having none of it. There are legal implications to it all, of course.

Nina Totenberg covers such matters for National Public Radio. It's always nice to see her.

Welcome.

NINA TOTENBERG, NPR: Thank you, Aaron.

BROWN: Well, every day is an adventure with this guy.

TOTENBERG: Yes, I call him the Nixon of the modern times. For reporters he's the gift who keeps giving.

BROWN: Do you think there is -- I mean, I almost want to say, is what's going on there right? Is this guy, do you think, behaving like a sane -- not in the legal sense the term, but in the medical sense of the term -- a sane person?

TOTENBERG: Well, you know, I'm not a psychiatrist. He's either very foxy, or he's really not playing with a full deck.

And, you know, you don't have to be a bag man, unkempt and kind of a space cadet to be somebody who is paranoid. And actually, one thing that does seem to be true, if you sit down and you read all of his motions in one sitting for several hours, you can sort of see him deteriorating.

You know, he's in solitary confinement. And the lawyers who he refuses to see have filed a motion just to get down cell-side and be able to talk to him through the food slot because their psychiatrists tell him that he's getting more and more isolated, and his paranoid delusions get more and more exaggerated that way.

Now, that may or may not be true. But it certainly is true as you look at these motions, that he is getting wackier.

BROWN: Yes. The judge ultimately, I suppose, could order him to retain a lawyer, or could assign a lawyer to the case.

But if he is determined to plead guilty, if that's what he wants, there isn't much the judge can do to stop him.

TOTENBERG: No, unless of course she found that he was not competent to make that decision. And she could, I suppose, order another psychiatric decision.

BROWN: Well, but if he's not competent to make that decision, then, I'm not a lawyer here and I'm not going to play one on TV, but it seems to me then he is not competent to aid in his defense, which means there shouldn't be a trial at all?

TOTENBERG: Well, maybe or maybe not. You know, one thing is absolutely certain. She has the power at any point to say, "you're not playing by the rules, you can't be your own lawyer and somebody else is going to be your lawyer." That she could do. But I must say that even though I thought up until this point that she might very well do that.

I think his intense desire to plead guilty, if he doesn't screw it up himself by trying to plead guilty with caveats, he may just put himself right into the death chamber that way.

BROWN: Well, it seems to me whether it's the plan or not the plan, he seems to be headed. Prosecutors say anything to you today, any sense of how they're taking this all in?

TOTENBERG: Well, I suppose that the best indication of how much they think we should take him seriously will be seen in the next few days as to whether or not they, in fact, do think he might have information or whether they think he's delusional and aren't really interested in what he has to say.

Now, there were some lawyers outside the court today calling themselves new Black Panthers who said that they didn't think he should plead guilty or that at least they should get something for it, and that they would try to intercede to try to make a plea bargain. Now, if they can do that, you know, these lawyers, these court- appointed lawyers have been desperate to get anybody that he'll trust enough to deal with. BROWN: Has there ever been any indication that the government wants to deal here? I mean, you have got a guy who, on the indictment, is charged with being a conspirator in this terrorist attack on the United States. I wonder about the government's willingness to deal in that manner.

TOTENBERG: Well, it's not a question of willingness to deal. The question is whether he, in fact, has information that would be highly valuable to them. And I'm not at all clear on whether he does or not.

But if he, in fact, knew where other al Qaeda cells were, for example, in the United States, if they exist, that would be certainly worth something making a deal over.

BROWN: Yes. And so, you have to find out. So, I guess -- somehow, someone has to engineer some sort of meeting, if that's where we get to, between this guy and the government. This thing is something.

TOTENBERG: My sense is that initially, he didn't want to talk to them at all. Now, whether he's willing to talk to them now -- certainly he trusts the -- he's more willing to talk to the prosecutors than the very defense lawyers who have been filing motion after motion after motion on his behalf. So, it's a little strange to say the very least at this point.

BROWN: Next week, one more chapter. Thank you.

TOTENBERG: One more chapter.

BROWN: Yes. Nina Totenberg from NPR joins us tonight to talk about the Moussaoui case, which is not funny even as the behavior in court is something else.

Coming up on NEWSNIGHT, when corporate synergy does not quite add up. A wonderful example of that when we continue.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: A quick look at some of the stories that have made news today beginning with the president and the Middle East. Mr. Bush today met with Arab foreign ministers after two days of attacks in Israel. The president said today, "we refuse to be discouraged." He said that both Israelis and Palestinians have a responsibility in trying to create peace.

There's a shake-up today in the Transportation Security Agency, the agency created after the 11th of September. The head of the agency, John Magaw, resigned today. No official reason given, but Magaw has been criticized for not involving members of Congress and airport officials in drawing up security policy.

And in Colorado today, the crash of an air tanker. An air tanker was battling a wildfire about 50 miles from Denver. Not clear yet for some reason how many people were on board. And from Iowa this evening, a state judge has upheld his decision that pregnancy tests are not confidential. The judge ordered Planned Parenthood to turn over records to help investigators find the mother of a newborn whose body was dumped in the trash. Planned Parenthood says it will appeal the decision.

And now, onto a business story. And we say right off the bat, as you knew we would, this hits close to home. It's about CNN's parent company, AOL Time Warner, whose chief operating officer, Bob Pittman, stepped down today. This is a complicated story of our times. Two huge media giants, successful companies, each merged with the idea that working together would make them better and more successful than being apart. Perhaps that will still happen. But to say it hasn't yet is an understatement. Here's CNN's Allan Chernoff.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHERNOFF (voice-over): It was a corporate marriage built on the promise of the Internet age.

STEVE CASE, CHAIRMAN, AOL TIME WARNER: As we enter this Internet century, no company will be better positioned to capitalize on the convergence of media, entertainment and communications.

CHERNOFF: The idea was to build synergy between new and old media.

BOB PITTMAN, FORMER COO, AOL TIME WARNER: This is the perfect 1+1 = 3 opportunity. We are the missing piece of each other's puzzle.

CHERNOFF: But for shareholders, there's been no addition, only subtraction of wealth. Since the merger closed in January of last year, AOL Time Warner stock has lost nearly three-quarters of its value, wiping out nearly $150 billion of stockholder wealth. The timing of the deal couldn't have been worse.

PAUL KIM, SENIOR MEDIA ANALYST, KAUFMAN BROS.: Technically, AOL bought Time Warner. But effectively, Time Warner bought AOL and one could argue that they highly overpaid for it.

CHERNOFF: And technologically, America might not have been ready for such media convergence. In retrospect, AOL Time Warner executives were sailing into the perfect storm. The Internet bubble was bursting. Ad revenue from dot-coms was evaporating. Then, the entire ad market headed south, squeezing magazine revenues. Finally, Wall Street turned skeptical of media and cable companies, like AOL Time Warner, that highlight cash flow rather than real profits.

Once in the storm though, stockholders and analysts charge there were management missteps. The synergy promised never developed. Time Warner has long been known as an empire of fiefdoms. They still stand. Wall Street analysts feel company executives haven't been leveling with them. Last year, when it was apparent the ad market was falling, management insisted the company would meet revenue targets.

PORTER BIBB, MANAGING PARTNER, TECHNOLOGY PARTNERS LLC: They were talking about 25, 30 percent revenue growth, which is really hard to take seriously. Why keep that refrain up when the first time you float it, you get a lot of naysayers and dissenters. But they kept at it. And part of that is Pittman. Because he's so aggressive and confident, visibility, he didn't back off of that. Parsons didn't back off of it. Jerry Levin didn't back off of it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHERNOFF: In a statement, Mr. Pittman said, quote, "I'm proud of what we've built at AOL and believe that it has a great future. Likewise, I have confidence in AOL Time Warner's prospects." Chief executive Dick Parsons said in his statement, "we have the best media, entertainment and communications businesses in the world, but our challenge, and our goal in making these changes, is to take the lessons we've learned over the past two years and use them to make the parts work together to create greater value for our shareholders" -- Aaron.

BROWN: Well, I hope they hurry. I've started to hear you talk that maybe they'll sell off parts of this empire, break it up in some way. Is there talk on the street about that?

CHERNOFF: There's plenty of talk about that. A lot of people saying if they were to break up the company, it would certainly be worth quite a bit more than its current value in the stock market.

BROWN: And its current value is about $12 a share, right?

CHERNOFF: It actually traded below $12 for a while today.

BROWN: Thank you, Allan. I think.

We'll talk with media columnist Michael Wolff, his thoughts on AOL Time Warner and this very difficult situation, what the lessons are, as NEWSNIGHT continues from New York.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: And as we continue life after the AOL, Time Warner merger. This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: More now on the great media merger and what has gone so horribly wrong. Michael Wolff, contributing editor of "New York" magazine who writes about these sorts of things all the time, joins us. Nice to see you again. I have options, so I have hope. Is this just bad timing, or is this something really disastrous?

MICHAEL WOLFF, MEDIA CRITIC: Well, if you have options, you might say you have no hope. I think it's really disastrous. This is something that has -- it is functionally -- the AOL Time Warner deal -- functionally the worst deal ever made in business history. And I think now everybody in the company is saying, they're facing it in a very real way. Can we recover from this?

BROWN: Let's explain the first part. The reason it's the worst deal in business history is because of the price paid for AOL?

WOLFF: Well, exactly. I mean, it was because it's complicated because AOL bought Time Warner, but the imputed value of AOL -- essentially Time Warner came -- AOL came to Time Warner and said we're worth $70 billion. And it turned out not to be true. Not to be true. Right now they admit that it's not true to the tune of -- they've already written off $54 billion. They were wrong. I mean, wrong at a magnitude that it's almost impossible to imagine.

BROWN: And is it possible to say, who was wrong?

WOLFF: Sure.

BROWN: Who?

WOLFF: It's really interesting. You can really begin to point finger. Jerry Levin made the worst deal. Bob Pittman -- you could say this -- Bob Pittman made the best deal, because he sold Jerry Levin and Time Warner this bill of goods.

BROWN: I assume there is a board of the directors involved here at Time Warner who made the decision, right?

WOLFF: Absolutely. There were many other people who said...

BROWN: I mean, one guy doesn't turn $150 billion deal or whatever this deal was?

WOLFF: Well, sure. One guy becomes the guy who is the salesman for the deal and who is the prime mover on the deal. You know, in America we let our CEOS do what they want, as we've been finding out in the last many months.

BROWN: Where is Ted Turner in all of this?

WOLFF: Well, I think Ted is...

BROWN: Unhappy, I'll bet?

WOLFF: Yeah, I mean, hugely unhappy. And I think Ted was, you know -- Jerry Levin pushed Ted Turner out. Would Ted Turner have done this deal? Well, I'm sure now he would say he wouldn't have done the deal.

BROWN: Do you think the company as it exist, AOL TW, survives, or do they start selling off the pieces of the company to try and somehow get the share price up so that it's something people don't laugh at?

WOLFF: I think you have Dick Parsons as the CEO of the company now is sitting, I could guarantee right now, he's sitting saying, you know, how do I get my shareholders their true value? That's my responsibility. How do I do this? And it may well be that the way to do this is to sell off parts of the company. Certainly right now the parts of the company are worth more than the whole.

BROWN: And when you talk about the parts of the company, what are you talking about? The cable business?

WOLFF: We're talking about some great businesses, that's the interesting thing.

BROWN: For example?

WOLFF: Time, Inc. Magazines, the greatest magazine company probably that has ever been. HBO, a remarkable company. The cable business, second largest cable company in the country. CNN. I mean, these are -- these are jewels of the American media business.

BROWN: And so what are you left with then?

WOLFF: You're left with nothing. You're left with -- you mean, if you sell off those?

BROWN: Yeah. You start selling off...

WOLFF: Oh, the company disappears.

BROWN: OK.

WOLFF: The company just -- you have these various other businesses that take on lives of their own. I mean, one of the subtext of this is people saying, well, maybe this whole consolidation business, maybe this whole incredible pulling together of all these companies that by no logic should be together was a big error.

BROWN: Right. I mean, we should talk about that. That this whole notion that if you -- that synergy, somehow, will make everything right and better and make everyone richer and fatter, I guess. And there are a couple of examples out there now that seem to suggest, it doesn't work?

WOLFF: There are more and more examples. I mean, I would say right now the conventional wisdom, which has been -- which moved from "we have to aggregate," to now "we have to disaggregate."

BROWN: Is that a word?

WOLFF: It is, and actually it's a word that Jerry Levin used all the time. That was his big word for why they were going to do this deal, because it was going to be a disaggregated world. He should have only known.

BROWN: Your insight is wonderful. It's nice to see you, Michael Wolff.

WOLFF: Thank you.

BROWN: When we come back, another business story: Dick Cheney's legacy as CEO. This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: "New York Times" reported today that its pollsters have found that Americans are growing a bit uneasy with the administration's ties to big business.

That is hardly surprising, which is not to say it is fair. This is an administration headed by an MBA, the president, and the vice president is a former CEO. They came to town saying they would run the country more like a business, demanding results of department heads, demanding accountability for each dollar spent. As a campaign theme it sounded great, but in these days of corporate scandals and stock market jitters, it sounds less and less like an asset and more like a liability.

The vice president's former company Halliburton has some bookkeeping issues to explain to the SEC. The company says it hasn't done anything wrong, and further said the vice president, when he ran the company, wasn't involved in these accounting matters. So what was his record as a CEO. How good was he really? Here's our senior White House correspondent John King.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Back in campaign 2000, time as a corporate CEO viewed as a major political plus.

RICHARD CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I spent the last five years running a company, global concern, and have been out in the private sector building a business, hiring people, creating jobs.

KING: But that big business background is at least temporarily a political liability now. Halliburton's accounting practices are under government investigation. Mr. Cheney's five years as CEO facing new scrutiny because of the election-year focus on corporate corruption.

PETER HART, DEMOCRATIC POLLSTER: Business experience isn't a liability. What is a liability are people who figure out the angles, the people who are not leveling with the public. If you don't level with the public, you are going to pay a price in 2002.

KING: Access is why energy and construction giant Halliburton hired Mr. Cheney back in 1995: A one-time Congressman and White House chief of staff familiar with Washington's power players, a former defense secretary with deep ties in the oil-producing Arab world.

JAMES WICKLUND, BANC OF AMERICA SECURITIES: Cheney came in with the ability to open doors, not get business but at least open doors in places like the Middle East and southeast Asia that most energy executives wouldn't have had.

KING: There is no question the experience benefited Mr. Cheney's bottom line: $11 million in salary and bonuses, a retirement package worth $13 million, and 660,000 Halliburton shares Mr. Cheney sold for $35 million when he decided to join the Bush ticket.

Less clear is his legacy as a CEO. Halliburton doubled its work with the federal government during Mr. Cheney's five-year tenure, from $1.2 billion to more than $2.3 billion. The company's stock performance also skyrocketed during that time. It was $20.75 a share when Mr. Cheney took the helm and $53 when he stepped down.

But the stock opened at just $12.85 Thursday, as the company confronts a Securities and Exchange Commission investigation and billions of dollars in potential asbestos claims, issues that date back to events that happened on Mr. Cheney's watch. Democratic ads talk of Enron-style accounting, and Enron and Halliburton both employed the Arthur Andersen firm.

Mr. Cheney even once taped an Arthur Andersen testimonial.

CHENEY: They've got the traditional role to fill as our auditors. They do that extraordinarily well.

KING: Halliburton says its accounting was by the books, and a longtime industry analyst says Halliburton is no Enron.

WICKLUND: I think that they have been a good solid corporate citizen. I don't think there have been any accounting problems or shenanigans with the company.

KING: The president says he is confident Mr. Cheney did nothing wrong. The vice president himself is refusing comment until the investigation is completed. John King, CNN, the White House.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: The latest now on Congressman James Traficant. A House panel found him guilty today of ethics violations because of his convictions on bribery, tax evasion and fraud charges.

Late tonight, the panel recommended expelling Traficant, an Ohio Congressman. He's clearly not going down without a roar.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JAMES TRAFICANT (D), OHIO: I will not resign if my name was Resign. And if I am to be expelled under these circumstances, then God save the republic, and God save the Constitution.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: The House has to now OK expelling Traficant with a two- thirds vote. If that in fact happens, he would become only the second member of Congress to be kicked out since the Civil War.

This is what we call a slice of life story. It is a small story that speaks volumes about a larger issue. The larger issue is the Middle East and the war on -- the war of terror, rather, often waged by one side and the attempts, often repressive, to stop the terror by the other.

This isn't about politics, about who is right or wrong, it is about a reality of what the action of terror and the reaction of occupation and curfews has brought. Oh, it's also a wedding story. It's reported by John Vause.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): 10:15 a.m., the clock is running. With the curfew in Bethlehem lifted for just a few hours, the flower arrangers arrive. They move quickly, without hesitation. Seven minute later, St. Catherine's at the Church of the Nativity is decorated. 10:27: The bride, Annie Abdol (ph), arrives. She doesn't stop for photos.

In six minutes later, she's walking down the aisle. 10:44 a.m.: Bride and groom exchange vows.

The ceremony lasts little more than 10 minutes, a "Reader's Digest" version of a normal Catholic service. Just the basics, no time for anything else. Outside, they pose for a few photos, quickly shake hands with the guests, the groom, Sam Salem, nervous about the curfew.

SAM SALEM, GROOM: We are trying to kill time as fast as we can because of the curfew coming back at 1:00 p.m., which is ridiculous.

VAUSE: 11:43 a.m., the newlyweds arrive for the reception, dance for 15 minutes, cut the cake, pour champagne, and dance some more. 12:10 p.m.: They're getting ready to leave.

We're going to run away in 15 minutes.

ANNIE SALEM, BRIDE: I'm happy, but I thought it would be more people, more -- we have more time to do what we are planning to do.

VAUSE: And then comes the news. The curfew has been extended until 2:00 p.m.

A. SALEM: No, we have another hour.

S. SALEM: Another hour, yes.

VAUSE: A few more precious minutes for dancing. The couple invited almost 200 guests, just 63 made it. Aida Zaura came from Ramallah, about 10 miles away, but it took her four days to get here.

AIDA ZAURA, WEDDING GUEST: I had to wait -- there was no curfew in Ramallah, to get out of Ramallah, and then I had to wait four days in Jerusalem in order to get into Bethlehem.

VAUSE: This wedding had already been postponed twice, and with no end in sight to the Israeli occupation, Sam and Annie decided to go ahead regardless.

(on camera): Normally the celebrations would last four, even five hours, well into the night. It's been just over an hour now and already some of the guests are starting to leave. They have to get home. The have to beat the curfew.

(voice-over): By 1:00 p.m., the last dance. A few minutes later the reception is over. The last guests head off.

S. SALEM: We're packed already. We have to get our bags and run for the checkpoint.

VAUSE: For Sam and Annie, their happiest day over in three hours and 27 minutes.

John Vause, CNN, Bethlehem.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: A few stories making news around the world. We begin in Ukraine. The bodies of 190 people discovered at a monastery in the Western part of the country, a place used by the Soviet secret police after World War II.

Experts on Soviet era oppression suspect the remains belong to victims of the secret police but say it is too early to know for certain.

From Greece today, police say they captured a leader and seven members of the terrorist group known as November 17. The group is blamed for decades of attacks. Those attacks include the killing of several Americans and foreign officials.

And in South America, torrential rains kept workers from clearing tons of mud and rock that buried several dozen people on a stretch of highway in the Andes. Authorities in Ecuador said up to 60 people were buried when a hillside collapsed yesterday. The landslide swept away at least 15 vehicles, including a bus carrying 32 people.

Still ahead on the program tonight, late night from the living room somewhere in Indiana. This story cannot possibly be better. Look out Leno.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Finally from us: Combine the hair of Marv Albert, the sophistication of Wayne and Garth, the ambition of David Letterman and the life experience of a teenager, and you have the biggest public access star in the state of Indiana, Michael Esseny (ph).

Over the next three minutes you may find you love his kid. It is also possible you will find him the most annoying person on the planet. But you will not forget him. He simply would not allow that.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAEL ESSENY: Jewel is going to be here tonight.

I am Indiana's Johnny Carson, essentially. I am host of a local talk show, late night format that is unique because it is done in my home. The show is taped in the living room of my parents' home. It has grown from being in 24,000 homes, but we now reach about 22,000 homes.

Some of the biggest stars to do the show and actually come to the living room are Kevin Bacon is one, Carrot Top, Jeff Foxworthy.

Stars to call the house for phone interviews or quasi-satellite setups would be former President Gerald Ford, Henry Winkler, Ray Romano, Bob Costas, Katie Couric, Edie Falco, Dennis Franz. All in all, we interview two stars on our show.

And tonight, Jewel will be here as my first big summer guest of the season.

OK, my first guest tonight is one of music's most popular accomplished artists, who is currently on tour promoting her new CD entitled "This Way." And I couldn't be more thrilled to have her come our way tonight.

Please welcome to the program, the lovely and incomparable Jewel.

Jewel, how are you?

JEWEL, MUSICIAN: Hi, how are you?

ESSENY: Thank you so much for stopping by, a real pleasure.

JEWEL: I'm glad to be here.

ESSENY: You know, I checked your tour schedule the other day; Indiana was not on it. So I appreciate (UNINTELLIGIBLE) thank you so much.

JEWEL: I'm glad.

ESSENY: Have you been to Indiana before?

JEWEL: Yes; oh, yes. I've been through here, yes.

ESSENY: My mom is my director. So when I have a celebrity guest here, she is the one who puts it all together. She controls the shots.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I guess I'm supposed to be called the director because I change the shots from camera one to camera two. It's really very simple. It sounds harder than it is.

ESSENY: Dad is also a crucial part of this. He overseas the lights, the technical aspects of it all.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm the gopher.

ESSENY: The ultimate goal is to host "The Tonight Show," permanently. That was also Dave Letterman's goal. He's from Indiana, of course; I'm from Indiana.

So if you think that guy from Indiana was determined, you ain't seen nothing yet.

ESSENY: Please welcome my first guest as host of "The Tonight Show." The first thing Kevin Bacon said when he sat down here was...

KEVIN BACON, ACTOR: You are one of the most persistent people we have ever heard about, met, or seen in our lives.

JEWEL: He's trying to do something that he wants, and he's not going to let anything stop him. He's going to, you know, no take no for an answer, and that's great.

ESSENY: I believe I'm going to make it because I'm hungry, I'm not taken from my focus, and I want it more than anyone else wants it.

So I can look at you confidently and say: I will be the king of late night.

Aaron Brown, you hear me? King of late night. I'm coming.

Call me, I need a guest next week.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: You will not forget him.

We'll see you tomorrow at 10:00. Join us. Good night for all of us at NEWSNIGHT.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com