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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown
Girl Missing in Los Angeles Found Alive; Prague Hit by Worst Flood of Century; President Bush Addresses Economic Forum.
Aired August 13, 2002 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again. I'm Aaron Brown. We never really thought we'd get a bit of wisdom from a mobster, but this line from one of Boston's old wise guys seemed to strike us today. "When a man assumes leadership, he forfeits the right to mercy." Leadership and taking responsibility as a leader seem to be a theme in a few of the stories we'll report on tonight. But we focus on just one here and now, and that is Florida's child welfare agency again.
The head of the agency resigned today. That strikes us as honorable, all things considered. The agency, after all, lost a child for more than a year, can't find 500 more, and a South Florida newspaper, over the weekend, found nine of those missing children just making some calls and checking public records, something the state could have easily done, if it was so inclined.
We dealt with this some last night. And after the program, a viewer, in a pretty thoughtful note, complained that we were doing these stories just to embarrass the governor, Jeb Bush, and, by extension, his brother, the president. That's silly. We do these stories because the state government of Florida has lost 500 children and has, without any help from us, embarrassed itself. And to the extent that reflects badly on the governor - and we assume it has, to some extent - we say too bad. Rank has its privileges, and rank has its responsibilities.
And because of the priorities set by the governor and adopted by the legislature, the state of Florida clearly has not funded this agency well enough and is not supervising its case workers well enough, and that is a scandal. President Bush campaigned on what he called the responsibility era that we are all accountable for what we do. And that is a good thing, we think. And that includes, not just parents and teachers, but governors and legislators.
Should Jeb Bush have known that Rilya Wilson was missing? Of course not. Should he have gone out and found the missing children himself? Absolutely not. But should his administration have known that something was wrong in the agency and done something about it? I don't understand how anyone, whatever their party and whatever their allegiances, can say anything other than yes. Otherwise, responsibility applies only to those you disagree with.
We begin "The Whip" tonight with what appears to be some good news finally about a case of a lost girl, this time in Southern California. Rusty Dornin is in Los Angeles tonight, a very busy night there. Rusty - the headline from you, please. RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, everybody loves a happy ending, Aaron. And there is unadulterated joy at this park in Los Angeles, as a little girl kidnapped on Sunday night is reunited with her parents.
BROWN: Thank you - Rusty. Jessica Cortez is safe. We will come back to that at the top tonight.
Onto the shakeup in the leadership at Florida's child welfare agency. Mark Potter working that for us this evening.
Mark - the headline that is left, please.
MARK POTTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, after months of controversy and disturbing news that began with the Rilya Wilson case, the head of Florida child welfare department has announced her resignation. And Governor Jeb Bush has promised to make improvements - Aaron.
BROWN: And now the latest on the anthrax investigation, an interesting twist down the anthrax road today. Deborah Feyerick chasing that.
Deborah - the headlines from you, please.
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, FBI agents are pounding the streets. They've got a picture in the hand of a bio- weapons expert that they're investigating in connection with anthrax attacks. Aaron?
BROWN: Thank you - Deborah. A familiar face in that too.
To Europe now and the latest from the capital of the Czech Republic facing the worst flooding in more than a century.
Jim Boulden is in Prague. Jim - the headline from you, please.
JIM BOULDEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, much of Prague is still blacked out, and the city's river is still rising. In about one hour, the sun will also rise, giving residents here a chance to see what the worst flooding in over a century has done to their historic city. Aaron?
BROWN: Jim - thank you very much. Back to you - all of you - shortly.
Also on the program tonight, Paul Goldberger, who writes about architecture for "The New Yorker" and visits us often will bring some of his expertise to your design proposals for Ground Zero. I think this will be nice.
Nicholas Kristof from "The New York Times," who's been writing very provocative columns about anthrax well before the name Steven Hatfill burst into the headlines. Mr. Kristof joins us, too.
And, "Segment 7" tonight: murder in the South Pacific, on a tiny spec of an island with a whole lot of history. It's called Norfolk Island. And we will take you there before this hour ends.
It's a very busy hour, and we begin in Southern California tonight with the kind of breaking news we sit up here and enjoy doing. A child lost has been found finally tonight, found under circumstances that are still unfolding. In this truly odd season of kidnappings and disappearances, it is nice when one ends well. This one did. Four- year-old Jessica Cortez is alive and well.
We go live to southern California, and Rusty Dornin. Rusty - good evening.
DORNIN: I'm happy to be here for this news. There are still probably about a thousand people here at Echo Park in Los Angeles just celebrating the fact that Jessica Cortez was found. And we'll just show you a few hours ago the kind of things that were going on, the joy that was happening.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED CROWD MEMBERS: Jessica! Jessica!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DORNIN: Now that has gone on for the last few hours. The bells have been ringing at the local, celebrating the fact that 4-year-old Jessica Cortez, who was kidnapped from this park on Sunday night, was found. She apparently was playing and disappeared. They had thought perhaps that she had drowned in the lake. They have been dragging the lake. It's the largest underwater search that the L.A. police have ever conducted. But it was just a couple of hours ago that a woman drove up with some other people in a car and took a little girl inside and dropped her off and said this is Jessica. Apparently, she's in custody being questioned by police. The other people that were in the car are also, perhaps, going to be questioned. It is unclear whether they're in custody as well right now. But police here say that this investigation is far from over.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN POMEROY, INTERIM CHIEF, LAPD: This begins really the investigation. We want to make certain that whomever is a suspect, they never, ever do this to one of our children again. We will pursue that person just as relentlessly as we can, and we'll find that person. Jessica is safe, and now the real work begins overnight. We won't rest until that person is in custody.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DORNIN: It's been a really amazing evening here, Aaron, because, as I said, this community has reacted. This is the heart of the Latino community in Los Angeles. Families, people are bringing their kids out, that sort of thing. It was a unified effort to go out and try to knock on doors and find out because they wanted to help find little Jessica Cortez. So they are here just still celebrating and plan to stay because they just - the news was too good for them. Aaron? BROWN: I think it's too good for all of us, and we'll gladly accept it. There's an awful lot here we don't know. We don't precisely know anything about really who took this child, how she disappeared. We'll let the police work that. We saw reports that her appearance had been altered, that her hair had been cut. Do you know anything about that?
DORNIN: The only thing they would say is that she looked very disheveled. It looked like her hair had been chopped off, that sort of thing, to change her appearance. But that's the only thing they've said. Now they are going to have another press conference in about an hour-and-a-half when hopefully they're going to releasing more details about that.
BROWN: Rusty - thank you. You've got reporting work to do. We'll let you go do it. If you turn up anything, let us know, and we'll chat again. Rusty Dornin in Los Angeles tonight. Again, 4- year-old Jessica Cortez is safe.
We wish the news was so good out of the state of Florida; it is not. The resignation today, finally, I guess, under pressure of the head of the department of child welfare. When you read Kathleen Kearney's resignation letter, you find the name Rilya Wilson just mentioned once, and, oddly enough, tucked within a list of accomplishments, praising her department for aggressively putting into place some reforms after Rilya was discovered to be lost this past spring. Failures were addressed in mostly vague terms. She quotes a mentor of hers as saying this: "optimism is often thwarted, but we never know the heights we can achieve unless we try."
The truth is, of course, that no one person created the mess that is the state's child welfare agency, and no one person will fix it. But the failures of the agency are so extreme that it is hard to imagine how the director could stay on.
Here again, CNN's Mark Potter.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
POTTER (voice-over): As late as this morning, Florida Governor Jeb Bush continued to defend the embattled secretary of Department of Children and Families. He was asked if Kathleen Kearney would still be in office next week.
GOV. JEB BUSH (R), FLORIDA: I hope so. I mean that's - she's got my support.
POTTER: But by late afternoon, the story had changed dramatically. The governor's office announced that Kearney had resigned. In a letter to Bush, Kearney gave no explanation for her resignation, but wrote: "I would like to believe that during my stay here, it can be said that she believed, she hoped, she tried, she failed often enough, but with God's grace, she often accomplished more than she rationally could have dreamed.
Kearney is a former prosecutor and juvenile court judge who was pointed to head the already troubled agency three years ago, but the troubles did not end. This spring, a furious judge took the department to task in a dramatic case.
JUDGE CINDY LEDERMAN, MIAMI JUVENILE COURT: After I have been kept in the dark about the status and well-being and placement of this child for one year, why would you think I would allow the department to remove this child's sibling without my consent? Why would you even think that, and why would you try? What is the department hiding?
POTTER: In April, it was discovered that 5-year-old Rilya Wilson, while supposedly in state custody, had actually been missing for more than a year. She still has not been found. Other shocking revelations followed. Among them, reports that a half dozen girls were housed in a West Palm Beach hotel, but were improperly supervised and may have been exposed to alcohol, marijuana and sex.
Last month, 2-year-old Alfredo Montes was found dead near Tampa. On the same day a DCF investigator said the boy was fine.
In Coral Gables, police say a state foster care counselor was found asleep and drunk with a seven-and-a-half-month-old baby in her car. And this Sunday, the "Ft. Lauderdale Sun-Sentinel" newspaper reported that it had found nine children considered missing by the state agency.
NAN RICH, STATE REPRESENTATIVE, (D) FLORIDA: All of these incidents have taken a toll, and the average person out there does not feel that children in state care are safe. And I think that many of the polls are beginning to show that. So I think that there was a sense that a change needed to be made.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
POTTER: Now today, in written statement, Governor Bush praised Kearney for what he called the tireless devotion to the protection of Florida's children. He also promised to improve of child welfare system, but has not yet named the new secretary who will take on the daunting task - Aaron.
BROWN: Mark - thank you. Mark Potter, down in Miami tonight. Thank you.
We move on to anthrax now. Investigators tonight trying to take the clue we learned about yesterday one more step. They've got a mailbox in Princeton, New Jersey, that has tested, in recent days, positive for anthrax. They've also got a man they call a person of interest. And today, they appear to be trying to connect the two.
We now turn to CNN's Deborah Feyerick who has been working that story tonight - Deborah?
FEYERICK: Aaron, a lot of activity in Princeton, New Jersey. FBI agents there pounding the streets, showing store owners and business workers a picture of a man, and it's a picture that federal law enforcement sources say looks an awful lot like Steven Hatfill. Hatfill's a bio-weapons expert who came out Sunday admitting he's being investigated by the FBI in connection with the anthrax letters mailed last fall. Hatfill appeared at his weekend press conference clean-shaven, wearing a suit and tie. That's a different image than the FBI picture being shown around. One Princeton financial consultant tells CNN in the photo he saw, the man had mustache, fuller hair and was wearing a T-shirt.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN TRUBEE, PRINCETON RESIDENT: I made some comments about the picture and then about the news conference yesterday. And one of the agents said, well, this guy is the same one. But the picture they had, which was in color and he had a T-shirt on - he had a mustache; he had a fuller head of hair, and, from what I recall, what I saw on TV yesterday, I couldn't believe the two were the same one. I didn't argue with them. They said that. And I took them at their word.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FEYERICK: In photos of Hatfill as a young man, he does have a mustache and more hair. Hatfill's spokesman tells me, just a short while ago, that the FBI's method is a legitimate investigative tactic, but he does criticize the agency for not showing possible eyewitnesses' photos of more than just one person. Law enforcement officials say Hatfill is one of 20 people they're looking at in connection with the October anthrax attacks. Five people died after coming in contact with those tainted letters.
Now, why Hatfill? Sources tell CNN that bloodhounds took a scent off the Capitol Hill anthrax letters and reacting strongly to Hatfill in the places he'd been. His attorney called that technique bogus. The photos being shown to businesses in downtown Princeton all are within a couple of blocks of the mailbox that preliminary tested positive for anthrax last Thursday. Investigators believe that mailbox on NASA Street may have been the one where at least some of the anthrax-laced letters were mailed.
The Princeton financial consultant and his coworkers were questioned this afternoon. FBI agents asked if they recognize the man on the photo or if they remembered seeing him in the neighborhood last fall. None of them did. An FBI spokesman in New Jersey said they don't comment on their investigative techniques, as they call them. No arrests are eminent. Aaron?
BROWN: Do we know - do we know - whether or not they did show other pictures of anyone else, or if this picture, that presumably is Dr. Hatfill, is the only picture - they're showing?
FEYERICK: According to the financial consultant we spoke to - and we spoke to about 20 people - he was the only one that had seen the actual photograph. That was the one photo he saw. And again, he wasn't immediately able to identify it as being Steven Hatfill.
BROWN: Deborah - thank you very. The case gets more curious all the time.
A little later in the program, we'll talk with Nicholas Kristof of "The New York Times" who has been writing on this - on Dr. Hatfill and the anthrax investigation.
On we go. Wall Street was an unhappy street today, to say the least. The Federal Reserve will not lower interest rates just yet, maybe later, if the economy continues to struggle. The struggling economy and the dismal market were on the minds of hundreds of invited guests at the president's economic forum today in Waco, Texas. The events are one part economics and several parts political. The president trying to tell the country he gets it; his program will work; this is important political work.
CNN's White House Correspondent - Suzanne Malveaux.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: My administration will spend what is truly needed and not a dollar more.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): President Bush's stern message of fiscal responsibility is the centerpiece of his economic forum. Today, the president thumbed his nose at congress, announced that the $5 billion lawmakers signed, tacked on as a "take it or leave it spending deal," was gone.
BUSH: I understand their position. And today they're going to learn mine. We'll spend none of it.
MALVEAUX: The economic forum was billed by the administration as an opportunity for the president to discuss his economic agenda with more than 240 participants, eight cabinet members, and a who's who of the country's top CEOs. From the technical language of investor giant Charles Schwab...
CHARLES SCHWAB, CEO, THE CHARLES SCHWAB CORPORATION: ...reuniting investors with the simple principles of asset allocation diversification...
MALVEAUX: ...to the plain-speak of Great-Grandma Flora Green.
FLORA GREEN, ECONOMIC FORUM PARTICIPANT: We want to make our own decisions.
MALVEAUX: The president took it all in, but also put out his own economic agenda, calling for a crackdown on corporate corruption, terrorism insurance to boos construction projects, an energy policy that makes the U.S. less dependent on foreign oil, permanent tax cuts, increased minority home ownership, and a cap on medical liability lawsuits.
But Democratic lawmakers, none of them invited, called the forum nothing more than an infomercial for Republicans facing mid-term elections. Democrats say their proposal to hold an economic summit in January was roundly rejected by the administration. And they point out that many of the forum's participants are big time Republican donors who are in lock-step with the president's agenda.
Democratic Congressman Charlie Rangel says, in a released statement, "President Bush's so-called economic 'forum' is a public relations exercise designed to insulate Republican leaders from the growing sense that the country is on the wrong track."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
For both Republicans and Democrats, all eyes are on tomorrow. That is the deadline for CEO's of major public corporations to turn over their books and certify that their numbers are real. Aaron?
BROWN: Suzanne, go back to the very beginning. You talked about the $5.1 billion - I think the number is - that the president vetoed today. Where was that money headed?
MALVEAUX: Well, that was all a part of an appropriations package for Homeland Security, as well as defense, $28.9 billion, I believe. That money that the administration is now saying that they have some $14 billion that the Office of Management and Budget has come up with unspent funds that they say they can use. But also, the administration saying that things that will go for aid to Afghanistan, to Israel, as well as some AIDS programs, will actually be funded through fiscal 2003.
BROWN: Suzanne - thank you. Suzanne Malveaux in Waco, Texas, warm Waco, Texas, tonight. Thank you very much.
Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, more on the anthrax investigation, as we mentioned.
Up next, thousands evacuated as terrible flooding has hit large parts of Europe. We'll take you to Prague. That and more, as NEWSNIGHT continues from New York.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: There's a picture that pretty much sums up life all over Europe tonight, a shot of a restaurant in Prague called The River Club, with the river coming right up the front steps and rising still. It is the same story in Vienna and Dresden, Northern Italy and Southern Russia. Parts of London's Underground are underwater. But, for the moment at least, the focus is on Prague, where the river that runs through it is about to crest.
CNN's Jim Boulden is in Prague for us tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BOULDEN (voice-over): The historic Czech capital, Prague, is suffering from the worst flooding in more than a century. City leaders pleaded for residents living near the swollen Voltava River to evacuate, as the city fell under a state of emergency.
People all over the country are desperately trying to save their property and some their lives, after more than a week of heavy rains. Electricity has gone out in parts of Prague. Stores in the area are running out of food. And in some bank teller machines, the money has run dry. But some people have ignored the calls to leave their homes, not ready to believe they're under threat.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's a really sad thing for the people of Prague. Apparently, a flood like this hasn't happened in 50 years. But hopefully too many lives won't be lost and houses and hotels devastated.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I perceive that all of the town is going to get (INAUDIBLE) - very strange. It's like a war zone.
BOULDEN: The lowest parts of old Prague are under water, and the city's historic bridges are either closed or being monitored for damage, as 30 times the usual amount of water rushes beneath them. The southern part this central European country has already suffered from days of heavy rains. More than 30 bridges there have been destroyed or damaged. And as the showers slowly move away from Prague, the eastern part of the Czech Republic is now braced for its share of the suffering.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
Aaron, this city is now currently under a 36-hour emergency. Many people, as you said, have been moved away from their homes. But people are still very concerned about the historic buildings and bridges down in old Prague. Some of those are now underwater. Some of the bridges date from the 14th century, and they're very concerned that those bridges may not last through the night.
Now, the water is still rising here. However, I can tell you a bit of good news that it has stopped raining in Prague. Aaron?
BROWN: Well, that's a lot of good news, if you're in the middle of a flood I guess. Forecast for the next few days, at least, look a little more promising, I gather?
BOULDEN: Yes. They don't think it's going to rain here in Prague. The problem is the rain is moving eastward. And now the eastern part of the country, the Moravia district, is now under threat of flooding. And Czechoslovakia is also bracing itself for flooding and a lot of rain. So those areas may witness what we've seen here.
BROWN: Jim - thank you. Jim Boulden in Prague in the Czech Republic tonight. Thank you.
A number of items from around the world tonight to report. We begin in Kabul. Iran's president paying a visit to the - his counterpart in Afghanistan, Hamed Karzai. Brought a promise of aid of about a half a billion dollars. Asked Karzai to crack down on Afghanistan's opium farmers. The Iranian leader also took a shot at the United States, a verbal one, for creating a war-like atmosphere in the region, in his view is the wrong way to fight terrorism, that from the head of Iran.
Mideast now, Israel Supreme Court put the brakes today, at least for now, on a military plan to send relative of terror suspects from the West Bank to Gaza. The plan has drawn a lot of criticism from Palestinians and from Israeli human rights advocates, as well. Yesterday, a military court ordered the expulsion of three relatives of a Hamas militant. Supreme Court today in Israel put that on hold, gave the IDF 15 days to explain itself.
And look up in the sky. If you do and the weather is right - this is a big part of the story - you're apt to see something wonderful, the meteor shower in full bloom. Footage here comes from china, but the shooting stars can be seen all across North America as well, if the weather is right. And please, no e-mails on this. We know they are really not really stars. We just call them that.
Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, kidnap victims who wind up on the cover of "People" magazine. A little bit later in the program, we'll talk about television and whether it's being responsible. Up next, more on the anthrax investigation and the scientist has found himself at the center of it. This is NEWSNIGHT from New York.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Back to anthrax investigation and the man who continues to be a focus, if not the focus, Dr. Steven Hatfill. This is such delicate stuff. The man, as he said over the weekend, has found himself in the center of swirl of speculation and leaks. He said loudly and confidently that he is innocent, that he had nothing to do with the anthrax attacks. At the same time, we in the media continue to look at his background, as we also look at the investigation itself, and there continue to be interesting things discovered.
Nicholas Kristof, who writes on the Op Ed pages in "The New York Times," has been doing a lot of reporting work and a lot of writing on Dr. Hatfill. We talked with Mr. Kristof earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
I want to talk first about maybe the problems of writing about this. You've got a guy whose name has been put out there by the government cleverly, I would opine, and a fair amount of information, but he's not been charged with anything and, at the end of day, may turn out to be absolutely innocent. Do you struggle with this?
NICHOLAS KRISTOF, COLUMNIST, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": Absolutely. I think the entire world of journalism struggled with it. Initially, for several months, I did not use his name. I wanted to prod the FBI because I thought there was an awful lot that they were not doing. I wanted to light a fire under them. And I wrote about Dr. Hatfill initially, without using his name, using just the name "Mr. Z" as a way of raising the issue and trying to address some of the public policy concerns but without further putting him in the public eye and making - giving him trouble.
BROWN: Now his name is out there. And now there's been a lot of reporting, "The New York Times" has, we have, and today in your column you talked about a couple of things that I hadn't really seen much of. I'd like to talk about them. Lie detector test, he's been given a number that you know.
KRISTOF: He was initially polygraphed last year by the CIA for security clearance, apparently ran into trouble with those polygraphs which had nothing to do with anthrax investigation but about his past. As a result his security clearance was suspended. Then this year he was polygraphed by the FBI in connection with the anthrax investigation. He has said that he passed, I hear that he was polygraphed three times and that each of those three showed evasions.
BROWN: And do we know where these evasions were, what sorts of questions were troublesome?
KRISTOF: We don't have the transcript. We know that they had to do with the anthrax case last fall.
BROWN: So they were on point.
KRISTOF: They were on point.
BROWN: Because there are two sets of issues with him. There are these resume questions that are troubling but perhaps not related. And then there's the anthrax stuff?
KRISTOF: Right. No, the polygraph questions, the series of three, they were about the anthrax case. To be fair to him, I mean, there are lot of people who raised doubts about polygraphs, some people, even within the FBI have wondered whether his personality, which is rather combative, would cause problems for the polygraph, and whether that may be an issue. But the series of three polygraphs that he took, about anthrax case, apparently showed evasion.
BROWN: And then you wrote today about the dogs, that they put bloodhounds or whatever we use today instead of bloodhounds, into his apartment, into his life, essentially. Talk about that for a minute.
KRISTOF: OK. Sure. They have bloodhounds which they have specially trained for example to detect a scent associated with a bomb. They will have somebody who handled a bomb, they will blow it up, show the dog the fragments of it and then try to train those dogs to find the scent initially associated with it. So they took those dogs and prepared scent packets from the anthrax letters after they had been irradiated so that they would not actually be dangerous. And they did a kind of double blind experiment, where the dogs were shown a number of apartments, a number of people, a number of restaurants. The dogs have special cues that show that they respond to a scent, they recognize a scent. Those bloodhounds responded very strongly to Dr. Hatfill himself. They responded to his apartment, they responded to his girlfriend's apartment, to his previous girlfriend's apartment and to restaurants that he had recently entered. They did not respond to other people, apartments or restaurants.
BROWN: Now when he talked the other day he said that he had had no contact with anthrax, that his area of expertise in fact is not anthrax. Is there any explanation for this, for what the dogs were sniffing?
KRISTOF: There's no - I mean, one could question whether the bloodhounds know what they're doing, whether the scent still lingers. But it's not as if they were sniffing out a T-bone steak somewhere. In terms of the point you raised about his expertise, he emphasized that at Fort Detrick that his work was on viruses not bacteria. And he's absolutely correct that at Fort Detrick he did not work with anthrax. It is true, however, that his own C.V. does emphasize his experience work with bacteriological pathogens as well as viral pathogens. And that in his lectures, for example, he has talked a great deal about anthrax.
BROWN: Nice to meet you. Thanks for coming in.
KRISTOF: My pleasure.
BROWN: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
Nicholas Kristof of "The New York Times." We talked to him late this afternoon.
Still ahead on NEWSNIGHT, we have an expert, Bob Goldberger, comes in tonight to look at some of your many ideas for Ground Zero. We look forward to that.
Up next, glorifying victims, television and rape victims, this is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: We want to revisit a story we wrestled with a couple of weeks ago. Two teenagers in California kidnapped and rescued after a dramatic shoot-out. They were also sexually assaulted. Our first look at this was the tricky issue of identifying rape victims and on the other hand the price of silence, and how society deals with all of this, the media, too. With the young women now gracing the cover of "People" magazine and subject to the booker wars on the TV talk shows, the story shifts from the young women themselves, to I guess the media and to, I also think, we'll see if our guest agrees, their parents. Cinny Kennard, used to be a very tough and able competitor, has since found religion, she's now at the Annenberg School at USC and she joins us tonight from Los Angeles.
It is nice to see you again.
CINNY KENNARD, ASSISTANT PROFESSOR, ANNENBERG SCHOOL, USC: Nice to see you.
BROWN: Look, this stuff, as you know, this sort of story, to one degree or another, has been the basic of television talk shows, certainly morning talk shows and others, probably for as long there have been morning talk shows and others. So what's the deal? what's the problem?
KENNARD: I think that there's mixture of things happening. The good news in all of this was, there was enormous discussion within network news operations, the morning the girls were rescued. And in fact there was much discussion as you'll remember about graphically distorting their faces on television that morning. And I woke up pleasantly surprised with that. However I don't know what happened to the discussion of ethics and standards in the newsroom when there was this bounty hunter-like pursuit of these victims to get them either on the "THE TODAY SHOW," the "LARRY KING" show or the cover of "People" magazine. And Aaron, we could say at this point that there's fierce war going on, a competition right now between "People" magazine and "US." So who knows what happened when "People" became the magazine that they landed on the cover of.
BROWN: Right, Cinny, I want to go back to a couple of things there. You say I don't know what happened between the time the business was responsible and the time the booking wars start. Let me suggest that one thing that happened was that one of the young women gave an interview at KABC television in Los Angeles. And at that point, and we can argue about whether she was right to do that or whether her mom was right to allow it, but at that point she's no longer anonymous.
KENNARD: But, Aaron, we've been both on stories, in fact, we've been on stories together. And we know the atmosphere, it's about getting that person to talk to us. And it's become fiercer than ever. We have 20-year-old bookers that are also joining that KABC reporter in pursuit of this victim. Certainly the victim is in a position to make the decision and elect not to go on camera. But you and I both know what that environment is like. It's a very raceful - it's a hot pursuit, I've got to get it, you've got to do this for me, you're almost pressing this victim so that they're not allowed to get away and say, no. And they're not even given time to make a decision because the pursuit is so overzealous. And somehow we have got to find a away to balance this zeal for great coverage with ethical considerations. And there has to be some...
BROWN: Cinny, what is the ethical consideration here? And I will - we know each other. I will continue to play the devil's advocate a bit here, some of this, as one who went through the Simpson case, and the booking wars then, I'm squeamish on this. But here is - I'm not sure what the ethical question is. They made a choice. Now should bookers be buying them clothes and sending them presents? of course not. Should they be saying things like, I'm going to get fired if I don't deliver the get? of course they shouldn't. But what is so terrible about these wars in the end? I mean, honestly, it's only television.
KENNARD: But let me suggest one thing. Back in the dark ages of 1996, there was a society of professional journalists that crafted a so-called code of ethics. And in that code of ethics was, let's be cautious, let's consider that a juvenile's name shouldn't be used in a story, let's consider that when you encounter a rape victim, you do take pause and consider whether you should be in hot pursuit to get this person and put this person in television. You're absolutely right. They had a decision to make there. But I suggestion that the environment there, of being surrounded with people, and you know how it is, running after them, doing absolutely anything, and they're being told back home by news managers, I don't care what you do, get that person. I propose that we need to take a harder look at some of the things that are being asked - excuse me - that managers are asking some of these young producers to do. BROWN: Is it all in the end about money and ratings, is that pretty much what it is?
KENNARD: I'm afraid so. But I'm also afraid, Aaron, and let me make this brief, that the public is onto us for all of this. And they are becoming increasingly appalled. And when they become appalled, they begin to say, you know what? somebody needs to do something about these people. And then where do they go to get something done? I think we have got to take a pause here and look at our self-imposed controls and stop stretching them like we're doing.
BROWN: Cinny, you were a tough competitor, you're a tough critic, too, it's good to talk to you again.
KENNARD: Good to see you.
BROWN: Thank you. It's a good issue, we should look at this from time to time. It can get pretty nasty out there.
Quickly, a number of stories making news around the country tonight.
A big shakeup, continuing problems for American Airlines this time. American will cut 7,000 jobs, reduce its flight schedule, retire some aircraft. American announced its restructuring two days after US Airways filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. The airline continue to suffer in a bad economy post-9/11.
One of the latest problems for Amtrak. Amtrak has suspended most of its high speed Acela service because of mechanical problems. Amtrak at first thought it was an isolated problem. Today they identified a broader issue and decided to stop the service until they can check all the trains out. That's the fast train that runs mostly in the east.
And the father of Frisbee has died, Ed Headrick was the designer of Wham-O's first professional model and a fine product it was. He helped improve Wham-O's early design. Mr. Headrick was 78 years old.
Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, an island paradise with a crime wave, well, one crime, but in that place it is a crime wave. That's later. Up next, Paul Goldberger joins us to take a look at some of your suggestion for Ground Zero. This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.
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BROWN: Regular viewers we know all of you are, I know we've been taking your ideas for the future of Lower Manhattan. At our Web site CNN.com/Newsnight, how many times am I going to say this, well, I'm going to say this every time we do it. It's not a contest, but we do want to see what you think ought to happen down in Lower Manhattan at Ground Zero. We've shown you some of the proposals. We are clearly not an expert in this, Paul Goldberger is, writes about architectural for the "New York Times" - or the "New Yorker." That is the second time this week I've done the same stupid mistake. More to come.
Anyway, you've looking at them. It's nice to see you again.
PAUL GOLDBERGER, ARCHITECTURE CRITIC, "NEW YORKER": I have, it's good to see you.
BROWN: We talked about this, you and I. Talk broadly first. I've looked at bunch of them over the last couple of weeks. Tell me what, if you had to say, there is an ongoing theme here in people's minds, what would it be?
GOLDBERGER: I think the biggest theme is that people really feel passionate about something strong there, something big, something bold, in most cases, something tall. People miss the Twin Towers.
BROWN: There's a lot that are towers again.
GOLDBERGER: A lot of stuff looks a lot like the Twin Towers in one form or another, sometimes twisted, torqued, changed, bent, added to. But in fact people want something very strong and very bold. It's what the official planners missed with those six timid plans that we saw in the middle of July.
BROWN: Now you're a critic and critics can be little harsh, you are also a guy who has got a sense of what you think ought to go down there. And with that in mind, gently walk us through a couple of themes that you saw.
GOLDBERGER: Sure. Well, one theme that I saw throughout was this belief that there has to be height there, that people want to go back to the sky, repair the skyline, which is something that I feel myself very strongly. A couple of them in fact even spoke about an Eiffel Tower of the 21st Century, which is what I would like very much like to see there.
BROWN: We just have one on the screen.
GOLDBERGER: That is one of those proposals in fact.
BROWN: What do you like and what do you - from an architect's eye...
GOLDBERGER: What I really like there, is the great central tower, very tall, restoring the skyline that has been broken. On the other hand the thing around it I think would be pretty grotesque and oppressive. They would be unpleasant buildings to be in and they'd make a very difficult space.
BROWN: Boy, not only do you not get prizes for this, you get popped pretty good on the program.
GOLDBERGER: Sorry about that guys.
BROWN: No problem.
GOLDBERGER: OK. Here we have got another really tall tower. Again, a bold, strong statement on the skyline. Not a habitable building, not a building that you're supposed to go in unless you're going to go to the top and look at the view. Maybe it could be a broadcast tower and a symbol.
BROWN: It didn't do much for you, though.
GOLDBERGER: No, I think it could. That's the kind of think I'd love to see happen, actually, something like that.
BROWN: Is that what you referred to when you talked about ghost tower?
GOLDBERGER: No. The ghost tower projects, there were several of them that replicated the frame of the original World Trade Center without anything in it. Like I said, a huge framework in the shape of the old World Trade Center. I thought that was actually very evocative and powerful as a memorial, as a work of art to sort of do that. On the other hand it doesn't give us much in terms of an ongoing functioning place, and since we also want to restore the city, we want see life come back to the city, I think things like that are wonderful as a concept to think about, but not really to do.
BROWN: Now there some were, and we say this lovingly to all of you, a little odd.
GOLDBERGER: Some were very odd, in fact, actually. I remember seeing several in the form of a flag. There were a lot of things in the form of stars. There were two things that were hundred-story firemen. And this is actually one of my favorite among the odd ones, it is a snow globe the size of a whole building. And the author of it suggested that once a year on the anniversary of 9/11, there would be sort of dust all way through it as if someone would had shaken the snow globe. This would be a commemoration. I don't think we're going to see that one get picked.
BROWN: I don't think that's going to get through the process. We have gotten, as you know, you've looked through a lot of these, hundreds of these. What does that tell you?
GOLDBERGER: It tells me that people feel passionate about this. I have never seen people care about architecture as much as they do here, to the point where they're all taking out pencils and papers and doing things.
BROWN: Yes, this one comes from Germany. They literally have come from around the world, and they're not architects most of them. Anyway, it was kind of fun.
GOLDBERGER: It is fun. And it's wonderful to see the passion, even though I think ultimately architects will do a better job. They haven't yet. But we're going to have to now turn to really good architects and give them a chance.
BROWN: Thank you. And now you know what it's like to be panned by a critic in one way or another. CNN.com/Newsnight, the links will take you through it. Send yours in. We love them. And we love the fact you're taking the time to do them. We'll take you to the South Pacific in just a moment. This is NEWSNIGHT.
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BROWN: Finally, tonight, don't turn the channel, another installment in the NEWSNIGHT annals of naval history. We ended the program one night last week at sea off the Carolina coast, raising the Civil War ironclad, the USS Monitor. Tonight we take you to the seas off Australia, to an island where the descendents of the mutineers on the HMS Bounty finally settled. It was once a penal colony. It's now an island paradise, but there's trouble on Norfolk Island, and doesn't trouble in paradise always make for a great story?
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(voice-over): It is a place so ordinarily tranquil that the cows share the streets with the cars. A place where practically everyone knows everyone else. A place steeped in history and family. It is also a place where there has not been a single murder, not a one for a century-and-a-half until now.
: SGT. BOB PETERS, AUSTRALIAN FEDERAL POLICE: We hope, by this method, to eliminate a number of people from our investigation.
BROWN: All this week police flown in from Australia, 1,000 miles away, are fingerprinting or palmprinting more than 1,000 residents of Norfolk Island trying to find clues in the murder of 29-year-old Janelle Patton (ph), a hotel worker whose body was found in a park here four months ago.
JIM CAVANAUGH, NORFOLK ISLAND RESIDENT: I don't feel there's any invasion of privacy at all. I don't feel anyone here's got anything to hide because it's a small community.
BROWN: A small community, to be sure. But a community with an extraordinary history.
Many of the people on Norfolk Island today are direct descendants of the mutineers who took over the HMS Bounty in the South Pacific in 1789. You remember the story, they were led by a 24-year-old lieutenant named Fletcher Christian. The mutineers set Captain William Bligh and a few others onto a sailboat, and then fled to remote Pitcairn Island (ph). The British government moved their descendants, 194 men, women and children, to Norfolk Island, in 1856. Before their arrival, Britain used the island as a penal colony, and the prison still stands.
COLLEEN MCCULLOUGH, AUTHOR: (INAUDIBLE). That means I'm dirty and sweaty.
BROWN: Over the years, the islanders developed their own language, a combination, more or less, of 19th Century English, German and Polynesian. Novelist Colleen McCullough, who wrote the romantic novel, "The Thorn Birds," lives on Norfolk Island.
MCCULLOUGH: After you've had a Norfolk man, all our man are (INAUDIBLE). That means absolutely flavorless.
BROWN: So many on Norfolk Island come from the same family that a single name, Christian, for instance, as in Fletcher Christian, takes up one page in the tiny phone book. And, so they use nicknames, Loppy (ph), for instance, to pinpoint precisely who is who.
Police say the fingerprints, the largest mass collection ever done by Australian police, will take months to analyze. And they hope to match it with a palmprint recovered on the body. But they have no murder weapon, and they say they have no other clues to a murder in a place where almost literally murder never happens.
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We'll see you tomorrow. Thanks for joining us. Good night from all of us at NEWSNIGHT.
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