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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown

Men Held on Suspicions of Terrorism Released Without Being Charged; Suspected September 11 Terrorist Captured in Pakistan

Aired September 13, 2002 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everyone.
It's a bit hard to know whether we have a story or a non-story. All day long, it surely was a story, the Florida search of two cars after a woman in restaurant said she heard three men talking like terrorists with a plot on their minds.

The men were found. The cars were searched. Men questioned, then released. What do we make of it all?

First of all, the truth here is hard to determine. The men say they made no threats, certainly not the ones the woman said they made. And they'll join us on the program tonight for their first real interview.

The woman, as far as we know, stands by her version of events. So it comes down to a "he said, she said," and the only thing we can say for certain is we live in edgy times.

And that is especially true this week. There was that ship on Wednesday found with traces of radiation. It was held for two days well outside the port of Newark. Today the government finished its search. The radiation came from clay tiles on board.

We live in edgy times. And if we needed a reminder of why, we got that, too, when late today ABC news first reported, as Mr. Jennings reminded me, and CNN has now confirmed that -- of the capture of a man suspected of being one of the masterminds of the September 11 attack on the United States. A man who is only alive, authorities believe, because he couldn't get a visa into the U.S., couldn't get on one of those planes.

It seems this week of remembrances ended in an odd symmetry. The fear created by the Attacks a year ago played out all day long, and the reason for that fear, a man in custody tonight in Pakistan.

And it is the arrest of the suspected 20th hijacker that begins the whip. Kelli Arena has been working feverishly on that. Kelli, a headline from you, please.

KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, there's been a major breakthrough in the investigation into the September 11 attacks. Ramzi Binalshibh, one of the most wanted men in the world, has in fact been caught.

BROWN: Kelli, hank you. We look forward to the details in just a moment.

To Florida now, that stretch of Alligator Alley that was shut down today after the terrorist scare. John Zarrella working that. So, John, the headline from you?

JOHN ZARRELLA, MIAMI BUREAU CHIEF: Aaron, what a Georgia woman said she overheard had the nation on edge today. The three men at the center of this terrorism scare now say they said nothing at all. Aaron?

BROWN: Thank you.

And on to Iraq and the latest diplomatic push from the White House. Andrea Koppel at the United Nations. That's her beat, the diplomatic beat, that is. Andrea, nice to see you and a headline, please.

ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Aaron.

And Secretary of State Colin Powell's marching orders from the White House aren't that simple. They're to do something the U.S. has been unable to achieve for the last 11 years: convince the U.N. to order Saddam Hussein to admit U.N. weapons inspectors or prepare for war.

BROWN: Andrea, thank you. Back to all of you shortly.

Also coming up on this Friday night, it seems like a good evening to revisit one community profoundly affected by September 11 . Dearborn, Michigan. The largest Arab-American community in the country. We'll walk in their shoes tonight.

And we'll hear from the people we here at NEWSNIGHT refer to simply and affectionately as the wine couple. The wine columnist for "The Wall Street Journal" and someone who doesn't need any sort of tease, Walter Cronkite, the voice we think you wouldn't mind hearing from after a week like this.

So we have lots to do as we end an extraordinary week in many ways.

We begin with the arrest of the key figure in the Attacks of September 11 : Ramzi Binalshibh. He allegedly is one of the plotters. Had he gotten a U.S. visa, he might have been one of the hijackers.

Recently he was feeling safe enough to be interviewed for a report on Al Jazeera from somewhere in Pakistan. Now he's in custody.

Here's CNN Kelli Arena.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ARENA (voice-over): This is believed to be one of the Wednesday raids that netted Ramzi, the man who has admitted playing a direct role in the September 11 attacks by helping to plan and finance the operation. His capture is a significant breakthrough for Pakistani and U.S. authorities.

PETER BERGEN, CNN TERRORISM EXPERT: Should Ramzi Binalshibh choose to cooperate with investigators, I mean, he could basically lay out the whole 9-11 plan for the first time.

ARENA: Binalshibh was caught in Karachi. Pakistan's president told CNN about the raid by that country's intelligence service earlier this week that resulted in the capture of 10 al Qaeda operatives.

PERVEZ MUSHARRAF, PRESIDENT OF PAKISTAN: It was a good operation. And they are one Egyptian, one Saudi and eight Yemenis in this. And I'm told that maybe there's an important person also involved.

ARENA: By his own admission, Binalshibh was an integral part of the Hamburg, Germany, terrorist cell that spawned the likes of Mohammed Atta. Binalshibh was, in fact, a roommate of at Atta's, the hijacker who flew American Airlines Flight 11 into the World Trade Center.

U.S. officials allege Binalshibh sent money to at least two of the hijackers: Atta and Marwan al-Shehhi.

Germany issued an international warrant for Binalshibh's arrest right after the attacks in September, but he alluded capture, disappearing in Pakistan a year ago.

He resurfaced to be interviewed on audio tape for a documentary aired on Al Jazeera, the Arabic television network, this week. In the interview, Binalshibh boasted about his role in the September 11 attacks, even the early morning phone call he got on August 29, 2001, from Mohammed Atta with a coded message setting the date.

RAMZI BINALSHIBH: He said, "A friend of mine gave me a puzzle and I want you to help me out." I said to him, "Is this the time for puzzles, Mohammed?" He said, "Yes, I know, but no one else but you could help me." He said, "Two sticks, a dash and cake with a stick down. What is it?" I said, "Did you wake me up just to tell me this?" As it turns out, two sticks is the number 11. A dash is a dash. And cake with a stick down is the number nine. And that was September 11 .

ARENA: Binalshibh was arrested the day before the interview appeared. U.S. government sources say he remains in Pakistani custody.

(on camera): Investigators believe Binalshibh may have planned to be the 20th hijacker. He tried to enter the United States four times prior to September 11, but was denied a visa each time.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ARENA: Binalshibh has been linked to at least one post 9/11 attack on a synagogue in Tunisia. If he talks, Binalshibh could provide vital and, most important, up-to-date information about the al Qaeda terrorist network -- Aaron. BROWN: All right. Quickly on that. I've got one other thing we need to deal with tonight. He is in the custody of Pakistan, correct, not in American custody?

ARENA: That's right.

BROWN: OK. And do we have any idea if he's talking or not?

ARENA: Not yet, Aaron. It's early in the game, I was told by one source. So we'll see. We'll see what happens.

BROWN: OK. All right. Now, there's this other story that's been playing out tonight in Buffalo and some arrests made there. What can you tell us?

ARENA: Those were actually...

We just got some new information in.

Sources tells us that law enforcement authorities in Buffalo have arrested five members of what they call a terrorist cell. Four of those men are being questioned in the FBI office in Buffalo; one has been transferred to a detention facility about an hour outside of Buffalo.

All of these men are U.S. citizens, five in all, including some who have trained in Afghanistan in al Qaeda camps.

Now all of the men are believed to be of Yemeni descent.

Now here's the catch, Aaron. The sources say that the individuals can not be described as an active al Qaeda cell. They say that's because the group is not controlled by the terrorist network; and one source suggested to us the individuals will be charged with providing resources and support for terrorists, not with having anything to do with the direct terrorist plot.

Now, obviously, we've tried to get comment in the Justice Department. We have not had any luck yet, Aaron.

BROWN: Kelli, I know it was not for lack of trying. Thank you.

Kelli Arena at the Justice Department. Those are the government's allegations; they are allegations tonight on these arrests in Buffalo.

Before we learned of the Binalshibh arrest, our day was dominated by the drama that played out in Georgia and in parts of Florida, much of Florida, in fact. Three men in custody, bomb-sniffing dogs going over their cars, a stretch of one of the busiest highways in the country shut down, I-75. It looked like a big deal.

Tonight it looks more like a day in the life of the new normal. At the end of a very jittery week, three men who may have gotten noticed for how they looked became wanted men for what they allegedly said. Here again, CNN's John Zarrella.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ZARRELLA (voice-over): It started Thursday morning at a Shoney's in Calhoun, Georgia. Over breakfast, a patron said she overheard frightening remarks about 9/11 from three men of Middle Eastern descent.

The men apparently spoke loud intentionally. According to Stone, these were the chilling words:

EUNICE STONE: If they mourned September 11 , what will they think about September the 13th?

ZARRELLA: Stone called police. Twelve hours later, 600 miles south on a desolate stretch of I-75, between Naples and Miami, the men in their two cars were stopped, the highway shut down. South Florida held its collective breath, and the nation watched.

With the country already at a heightened stage of alert this week, that this was a terrorist plot seemed a real possibility. Bomb and hazardous materials teams poured over the two vehicles. A robot was used to remove belongings from the cars.

As all this unfolded, Florida's Governor, Jeb Bush, reassured the people.

GOV. JEB BUSH (R), FLORIDA: We take these threats seriously, and that people's fears should not overwhelm them. That we have incredibly trained law enforcement officers at every level of government that are working together to protect Floridians and protect Americans.

ZARRELLA: It would be late Friday afternoon before local, state and federal law enforcement, part of the Domestic Security Task Force, finally said there was no real threat.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank God, it all turned out for the positive, and we can relieve the public of fear today.

ZARRELLA: The three men, it turns out, are medical students. They were on their way from Chicago to start a course at Larkin Hospital in South Miami. The men had been held the entire time at the scene before they were released. At a rest stop, they denied they ever said anything.

AYMAN GHEITH, SUSPECT: How many other people witnessed this event that supposedly took place, first of all? OK. How many did -- did they ask the server that served us? Did they ask anybody else that was in the restaurant? How is it that one person can pick up a phone and make any statement that they will, and we end up -- I mean, I don't blame the police, because they're doing their job. I think it's time for us, as Americans, to put down our big sticks and pick up our books, and read about other people and read about what they believe, before we jump to conclusions. ZARRELLA: Authorities say they have no idea how much responding to this hoax has cost, but they will be adding it up.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZARRELLA: Authorities won't say whether they will try to assess the men any portion of the cost of today's event. And they won't say whether any charges will be filed. What they do say is that, if there are any charges that they could possibly file, they would come from Georgia, where all this started -- Aaron.

BROWN: Well, John, that presumes something that I'm not sure we can presume at this point, which is, in fact, that they said anything. They say they didn't; she said they did. Is there -- are there any other witnesses to this, who have spoken, up to this point?

ZARRELLA: What we are hearing from police is that they, although the men were released, were not willing to say that it was all over and done with at this point. They were still looking into, quote, "other things." They would not elaborate any further than that.

They did say, though, that they were looking into the possibility of potentially filing some sort of charges out of Georgia, based on the fact that this may have been a hoax. But absolutely, it is as you said, Aaron, at this point, unless the police know something more they're not telling us, it's "he said, she said."

BROWN: John, thank you. John Zarrella.

And those three men at the center of this will join us on the program to tell their side of the story for the first time, really, in any detail, in just a few moments.

Want to take care of a couple other bits of business before we do that, including Iraq, the United States and the United Nations.

A day after the president laid out what he wants the U.N. Security Council to do about getting inspectors back into Iraq or else, Secretary of State Powell went to work on the details. Much of his work involves lobbying, and much of the effort is focused on three countries that can stop a resolution from going through.

Here again, CNN's Andrea Koppel.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL (voice-over): For Secretary of State Powell, a day of high octane diplomacy, to convince skeptical members of the U.N. Security Council, especially those with veto power like France, Russian and China, to issue Iraq a final ultimatum: Allow U.N. weapons inspectors to complete their job in Iraq or else.

COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: All the members of the council are now seized with the issue, recognize the challenge that Iraq does present to international law and to the mandate of the Security Council, and they understand that we can not continue in this matter. KOPPEL: Diplomats say detailed drafting of one or more U.N. resolutions won't get underway until next week.

The State Department officials say Powell made clear resolutions must include a statement that Iraq is in violation of existing U.N. sanctions dating back to 1990, that weapons inspectors must be allowed to return to Iraq, a short and final deadline by which Iraq must comply, and the threat of consequences if it does not.

The sticking point, say U.S. and other U.N. diplomats alike, what those consequences will be. The U.S. wants the U.N. to support the possible use of military force. But Russia's foreign minister said the best course is a legal, not a lethal one.

IGOR IVANOV, RUSSIAN FOREIGN MINISTER (through translator): Regardless of the challenges and threats with which they are forwarded, it's possible to find a solution to them by resorting to the instruments of the United Nations and on the basis of international law. This is also fully applicable to the situation around Iraq.

KOPPEL: A sentiment echoed by China.

TANG JIAXUAN, CHINESE FOREIGN MINISTER (through translator): We stand for political settlement of the question of Iraq. The United Nations should play an important role in this regard.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL: Now U.S. and U.N. diplomats say they expect negotiations over the Iraq resolution to last perhaps as long as the rest of this month, but either way one Powell aide told me, he said the U.S. will take whatever it can get: either a single or multiple U.N. resolutions, just so long as in combination, Aaron, they satisfy what the U.S. wants all along, and that is possibly to use military action.

BROWN: Andrea, thank you. Andrea Koppel, working the U.N. beat this evening for us.

A few more stories from around the country, beginning with the vice president and his health.

He got a clean bill of health after what's described as a routine heart exam today. Here's how routine: his doctors down loaded information from a device implanted inside Mr. Cheney's shoulder. The gadget monitors his heart and gives jolt of electricity should anything go wrong.

This doesn't sound necessarily routine, but doctors assure us that it is.

On to the next one we go, ladies and gentlemen. In Orlando, Florida, a hearing for the governor's daughter has been postponed. Noelle Bush is suspected of having crack cocaine in a drug rehab center where she's a patient. The hearing today was supposed to address that question, but clinic employees are not cooperating with investigators, so for now the hearing is on hold.

We also learned today about troubles involving Al Gore III, the son of the former vice president. Last week, military police pulled him outside Fort Myers in Arlington, Virginia. He's charged with driving while intoxicated and possession of alcohol by a minor. He's 19 years old.

A spokesman today said his family is relieved that no one was hurt.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT: the three medical students who were at the center of the nation's attention for much of the day. They join us on NEWSNIGHT from New York.

(NEWSBREAK)

(AUDIO/VIDEO GAP)

AYMAN GHEITH: But we were talking about what we were going to do. I'm sorry, in Miami.

BROWN: That you were on to your way in a medical class in Miami. When you were in the restaurant was there any tension in the restaurant? Did you have a sense that you were being watched?

GHEITH: Not at all.

KAMBIZ BUTT: No.

OMER CHOUDHARY: Very comfortable.

GHEITH: And actually, I mean, to give credit to Shoney, the server was very nice. Everybody was very nice.

BUTT: No indication.

CHOUDHARY: No weird stares, no awkward looks. Nice meal.

BROWN: So when was the first time that you came to believe you were about to have a memorable day?

CHOUDHARY: Well, I mean. When we got pulled over. And then rather than the officer approaching us, they said, "Get out of the car. Get on your knees and put your hands behind your back." And that's when I...

BUTT: Three squad cars were behind me. I knew that it wasn't just going to be an average, you know, pull over.

BROWN: It wasn't just a traffic stop. Did you run a toll gate, by the way? Is that part of the story?

BUTT: No. I was the one being implicated for not paying the toll. I paid the toll, and as a matter of fact, then after me, Ayman paid the toll again.

GHEITH: So the state of Florida owes me a dollar. $1.50. I pulled up to the toll. Do you want to hear the story?

BROWN: Yes. Absolutely.

GHEITH: OK. Real Quick. I pulled up to the toll booth, OK. The lady at the toll booth, a nice young lady, she didn't speak English too well. All right? She looked nervous. I saw it on her face. I saw a cop car take off after Kambiz, so I asked her, "Is everything OK?" She said "Yes. No." I was like, "Well, did he pay? Is that the problem?" I'm looking at her hand. She has the money in her hand. She said, "No, he didn't pay." I was like, "All right. Then I'll pay. How much do I owe you?" "Three dollars." $1.50 for me, $1.50 for him, and I got a receipt. And then I thought everything was OK and we took off.

BROWN: And how soon after...

GHEITH: Next thing I knew, somebody was yelling at us.

BUTT: Immediately.

CHOUDARY: Immediately afterwards, we had cars behind us. One, then two, then three, and before I knew it, they just -- I heard a voice said "pull over and get out of the car."

BROWN: OK. A couple more here. When we first started hearing the story they were describing you all as uncooperative. First of all, tell me what they were asking; and second of all, tell me if you view how you behaved as uncooperative or not.

BUTT: OK. Well, actually our interrogation didn't begin until the FBI came into the scene.

GHEITH: Right.

BUTT: And as far as the local police were concerned, they wouldn't answer any questions. The whole time, I kept repeating myself and asking, "Why are we being pulled over? Why is this happening?" Well, they just told us, "We can't tell you, because it's not in our authority."

CHOUDARY: At 11:30 when we got handcuffed and placed in the squad cars, we were each in an individual car. From that time onwards, we were never told why we were pulled over. I found out, I think, an hour or so before we were released this morning or this afternoon.

BROWN: What kind of questions did they ask you?

CHOUDARY: About 4:30.

GHEITH: Everything.

BROWN: Like what?

BUTT: Where were you born?

CHOUDARY: We answered questions about where we were from.

GHEITH: Where were you born? How long have you been a U.S. citizen? I mean, questions like...

BUTT: Why are you going to Miami?

GHEITH: What business do you have in Miami? Who are your friends? They asked me about 100 people. Do you know this person? Do you know that person? Do you know this person. No. I don't. Why are you going to Miami. What are you doing in Miami?

CHOUDARY: What do you think of America?

GHEITH: What do you think of America?

CHOUDARY: They asked us a lot of questions. I was asked about nationality. They asked me where I'm from. I told them I was born here in Detroit, Michigan. I'm U.S. citizen, obviously, because I was born here. Yet they kept emphasizing that my parents are from Pakistan and that I'm from Pakistan. I told them that, you know, everyone has their roots somewhere. My parents were from Pakistan, but I was born here. It seemed like they were making that an important point, that I was a foreigner.

BUTT: Right.

GHEITH: I got hammered more with 9/11.

BROWN: We have about 45 seconds left. Let me -- tell me what you learned today. One of you.

GHEITH: I learned one thing. Can I?

BROWN: Please.

GHEITH: One thing I learned that -- OK, in justice, regardless against who is wrong, whether you be Muslim, whether you be black, white, Hispanic, Chinese, Jewish, I would like just to make a request.

For every person in the United States, this is an address to the U.S., America, to my people. If you know this is wrong, and you do know this is wrong, get up and call your congressman, please. Because it is against us today; tomorrow it could be against you. Whether you be white or black, it doesn't make a difference. Because injustice is injustice. It's going to be wrong.

There is no contradiction between the word Islam and the word American. There is no contribution in terms. And I hope that the American people will realize it some day.

BROWN: Gentlemen, I think from our side of life, we can't imagine what it's like to walk in your shoes today, for whatever reason you ended up in that. We appreciate very much you joining us tonight. Thank you very much.

GHEITH: No problem. BROWN: And good luck to you.

We're going to look at this from a slightly different point of view. Coming up: being an Arab-American in these days, in the post 9-11 period. Take a short break. First this is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.

BROWN: The families of the three men in Florida spoke out this afternoon. What struck us most was the raw emotion they seemed to have. The fear, the suspicion that somehow their loved one might have been targeted because of how they looked.

Perhaps only an aging generation of Japanese Americans can really understand the feeling that one day you are respected neighbor and the next day you are suspected enemy.

To find that feeling today all you have to do is go to Dearborn, Michigan.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: At Fordson High School in Dearborn, Michigan outside Detroit, where more than two thirds of the students are Arab-American, most of the kids say they know exactly what it's like to feel the glare of others.

NABILAH KNACAB, JUNIOR, FORDSON H.S.: Every time, like, I go somewhere where there's not a lot of girls wearing scarves on their heads, they give you these bad looks, and I feel uncomfortable.

MANAL MOURAD, JUNIOR, FORDSON H.S.: Once you sort of get out of Dearborn, you start feeling like you shouldn't be there. You start feeling like you're totally, completely different. And people start looking at you, like, in a different way if you don't belong there.

BROWN: Dearborn is unique among American cities. It is home to the original Ford auto plant at River Rouge, and over the last four decades, it has become the largest Arab-American community in the country.

OSAMA SIBLANI, PUBLISHER, ARAB AMERICAN NEWS: As we see here, this is a new shopping mall. And it's all Arab-American owned.

BROWN: Osama Siblani is an important man in Dearborn. He publishes the "Arab American News." He's head of the local Arab- American political action committee.

SIBLANI: We were shocked when, after September 11, that he unleashed John Ashcroft, as Attorney General, to capture and put in jail people and without trial.

BROWN: The Justice Department's detention of more than 1,000 men, most of them Arab-American, and many of them from Michigan, has Dearborn in an uproar.

SIBLANI: They believe that it's a war against them, against the Muslims. It doesn't matter what the President is saying. It's just what you see on the ground.

BROWN: These are not just the sentiments of an activist. In restaurants and shops in Dearborn, there is a troubling sense that the terrorists, in a most unusual way, are winning.

SIBLANI: They have brought the towers down. But we are bringing our freedom. And we are surrendering our rights, and we're finishing the job that Osama bin Laden started on September 11. We're doing it in our hand. Mr. Ashcroft is helping doing this.

BROWN: For the Arab-Americans of Dearborn, it is all very difficult. They had built up their community, they believe. They believe they have made it better.

SIBLANI: Basically, we are going to be learning about how to create our personal budgets, and how to use that to project your budgets throughout the year, OK.

BROWN: Yet the discrimination goes on, perhaps now more than ever.

SIBLANI: Our women were harassed in supermarkets, and our kids' playgrounds, schools. And our men were fired from their jobs, some of them.

And so discrimination went on upswing, you know, scale (ph). And therefore, they were subject to another hit, you know, after September 11, and it hasn't stopped.

We are accused of something that we have nothing to do with, and we have to prove our innocence. I mean, what happened to the idea that you are innocent until you're proven guilty?

Now we're guilty. We have to prove innocence. It's against the grain of our Constitution and our justice system.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: From Dearborn, Michigan, tonight, walking in someone else's shoes.

Still to come on NEWSNIGHT, tastings with Dottie and John. I love when we do this.

But first, a few minutes with Walter. This is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: And we are friends. We're that close.

Coming up on NEWSNIGHT, the wine couple. Lou's going to wish you were here for that.

This is NEWSNIGHT. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BROWN: So, sitting at the keyboard today, I thought, how exactly do you introduce Walter Cronkite?

Mr. Cronkite defined this very job. The word "anchor" seemed so perfectly applied. He was in times of national troubles the anchor, the man you trusted.

He wasn't the first person to hold the job, but he was the most trusted person. He held the job when TV news was truly born, the day President Kennedy was shot. He shed a tear that day, and he didn't hide his awe when men walked on the moon.

He went to Vietnam and found the war a failure. And when he came back and said so, the President, Lyndon Johnson, knew it was over.

Mr. Cronkite and I talked the other day about that most delicate of all issues, reporters' war and the government.

(BEGIN VIDEO)

BROWN: How do you think the press -- television and print -- how do you think it's done, not with 9/11, but since 9/11, since, in dealing with some of the complicated and difficult issues that extend beyond the attack itself?

WALTER CRONKITE: I think it's done fairly well with a very difficult set of circumstances, a very seriously difficult set of circumstances.

When you've got a terribly aggressive administration, in all of its policies, one that is not inclined to share information with the press in the first place, and which is proposing solutions to our very difficult problems today, which we must admit they are faced with, that require a great deal of explanation, a lot of looking into, they're not inclined to share -- the administration -- this with the Congress or with the people in any other way.

To delve into that looks as if it is somehow or other unpatriotic. We've got to be awfully sure that we understand what patriotism is.

Patriotism is the, is one's devotion to what one believes to be right for his or her country and its policies and its performance. That may not agree necessarily with the policy of the administration itself.

We have a right to stand up and say, wait a minute. Hold it a minute. That's possibly wrong. Let's look at this.

Well, the press has to be a leader in that. The press has to be the most skeptical, so that the people do not become cynical.

It has to say, wait just a minute. Just a minute. Let's go through that once more time. What did you say? And how does it apply to this situation precisely? BROWN: Do you think we have been, as a group, timid? Timid in saying we need to go with those troops in Afghanistan? Timid in saying, where are those detainees? What is being done with them? Timid in any of these respects?

CRONKITE: Without a question of a doubt. And our timidity in this matter of being able to cover our troops in action in Afghanistan does not -- I cannot explain.

I do not know why the press of this country has laid down and played dead over this issue, when it is fundamental, it seems to me, in regards to our freedom of speech and press, our right to know, what the forces that we send into a foreign country to act in our name, we are not entitled to know what they're doing in our name.

That to me just does not follow at all what I would call a democratic process.

BROWN: And how, then, should we address those viewers and readers who say, look. The government knows what it's doing. You'll just go over there and give away secrets. So why don't you just mind your own business?

CRONKITE: This is where -- this is where courage and strength is called for, and which we should be following. We have to stand up and say, no, no, no. No, no, no.

We're telling you what you're not getting. We're not able to tell you what you should be getting regarding the performance of our forces in action.

Your boys and your girls -- we use this phrase frequently -- we're sending our boys and our girls over there. We've got a right to know what our boys and our girls are doing over there.

We've got a right to know what our military is ordering them to do. We've got a right to know how they are performing in this chore that's been given them.

This is -- this is a fundamental. If we don't know that, how can we know how our government is performing in the most difficult chore that it has chosen to pursue?

BROWN: Do you think that your own experience as a war correspondent, and particularly your experience with Vietnam, has shaped in any way how you see both the role of the press in this time, and how the government's responded?

CRONKITE: It surprises me that I see that more clearly than the Defense Department does. This surprises me.

At the close of the Vietnam War, and toward the close and thereafter, most of the high military officials of this country believed that the press had lost the war in Vietnam, although the military appointed a commission to study that matter and came up with the conclusion that it was not the press that lost the war in Vietnam. But most of the officers involved believe that to this day.

But they all said, unanimously -- I do not think there was a naysayer in the group -- that we should, would never go to war again unless the American public understood and supported the effort that we were about to make in a military sense.

Now -- now at this juncture, we are being asked to say, to approve a war in Iraq, an extraordinary commitment that we would have to make, when the public does not understand the issue. Polls show that it is not supported, certainly, with anything like unanimity, or anything close to the unanimity that would be required to support a military adventure of that kind.

And yet the military itself seems to have forgotten what it was saying only a few years ago about Vietnam. I don't understand that.

BROWN: Let me -- a final question. I may be breaking a promise here for which I'll apologize in advance, because I think I said I wasn't going to ask any 9/11 questions, but let me ask one.

Do you feel the country, your country, has changed dramatically in the year since September 11? Does it feel like a different place?

CRONKITE: I think we've changed dramatically, in the sense that we are living today, each of us, with a sense of danger. We're not living anything like we were living before a year ago in our sense that we were secure behind our ocean barriers.

That this isolation that we had appreciated obviously is gone. There is no such isolation any longer.

That we are -- that we are susceptible of this kind of attack weakens us in our resolve, it seems to me, considerably. Not our resolve to try to make America better, not our resolve in trying to defend America. But simply our sense of security, that resolve that we have a secure situation, geographical situation if nothing else in this country, and we don't.

BROWN: If I ever have any questions about anything, can I just call you up and ask you?

CRONKITE: Why, sure.

BROWN: Mr. Cronkite, thank you...

CRONKITE: I don't have to promise to have an answer.

BROWN: Well, of course you don't. I just want to be able to call. Mr. Cronkite, it's nice to see again.

CRONKITE: You bet.

BROWN: Come see us again, please.

CRONKITE: I'd be glad to. All right.

BROWN: Thank you, sir.

CRONKITE: We didn't even shout at each other.

BROWN: We never do here. It's not our style. Thank you.

CRONKITE: I know you don't. That's I why I watch you.

(END VIDEO)

BROWN: Walter Cronkite the other day. Doesn't get much better than that, by the way.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, grab a glass, find the corkscrew. Get a pencil. The pencil part's important. It's time for another visit from the "Wall Street Journal" wine columnist, Friday night on NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Well, we try not to play favorites with our guests. But to be absolutely honest here, there are only two guests who the staff talks about literally for days before they come in.

The wine couple, the wine couple as we call them, are such trailblazers that our friend and producer David Bohrman took a cross- country train trip with his wife, armed with champagne, after reading that the wine couple had done that, too.

Dottie Gaiter and John Brecher are the married couple who write the wine column for the "Wall Street Journal." It's always nice to see them, and I think especially in this week it's nice to have you here.

DOROTHY J. GAITER, WALL STREET JOURNAL WINE COLUMNIST: Thank you.

BROWN: Welcome. A new book out.

GAITER: We have a new book out, "The Wall Street Journal Guide to Wine," new and improved.

BROWN: And what makes it new and improved?

JOHN BRECHER, WALL STREET JOURNAL WINE COLUMNIST: You know, we've got three years more of tastings. We've got all sorts of wines we didn't taste before. But the most important thing is that we get thousands and thousands of e-mails and letters from readers all the time.

So, we have three years more of reader feedback. And what's important about that is that what people really want to know about wine, what they really care about is very different from what wine experts might guess.

GAITER: Like headaches.

BRECHER: Just for (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

GAITER: You know, we never thought that people were concerned about headaches when they drink wine. So when they...

BROWN: But they get headaches.

GAITER: ... they get headaches. And not from over-imbibing, because you will get a headache. But just, there are people who are very sensitive, to red wine in particular.

BROWN: And is there something added to the wine? Or is it just, ...

GAITER: It's...

BROWN: ... some people get a headache?

GAITER: It's a naturally occurring stuff.

BROWN: Listen, if we're...

GAITER: Protein.

BROWN: ... going to have this stuff on the table, we ought to drink a glass of wine -- with the kind of week we've had around here.

The book just come out? Is that...

BRECHER: It just came out this week. It just came out this week.

And as with the first book, we also have specific wines that we talk about. Merlot, for instance, which we're about to have right now.

GAITER: You know, Ben Stein, the guy who's made a career being boring and...

BROWN: Yeah.

GAITER: ... talking (ph) and, well he's Merlot -- boring wine. But not all Merlots have to be boring, and this one isn't. This is really...

BROWN: I always think of Merlot, as we've talked about here, my wife remembers every bottle of wine we've ever had, and I remember virtually none. But if I want to be safe, I figure I'll get -- well, I say, well, give me the Merlot. It almost sounds like I know what I'm doing.

Nice to see you, by the way.

BRECHER: Good to see you. It's gotten too safe. That's the problem.

BROWN: It what? BRECHER: It's gotten too safe.

BROWN: Yes.

BRECHER: It's gotten boring.

BROWN: But it doesn't have to be.

GAITER: No.

BROWN: This is a...

BRECHER: This is a Hess. And we also brought a Cuendet. Both of them are affirmatively good, not just OK.

GAITER: I called...

BROWN: I don't believe Mr. Cronkite, by the way, ever drank wine on his -- when he was anchoring the news.

GAITER: Well, see?

BRECHER: Here is progress.

GAITER: He could have been better.

I called Ben Stein, and I asked him what he drinks. And he drinks Chardonnay. His wife drinks Merlot.

BROWN: Drinks Merlot.

GAITER: Yeah.

BROWN: So, it's safe to call it that?

GAITER: Yeah.

BROWN: I don't know when it was that wine sort of emerged, but when I was growing up, if it was a big night in our house -- I mean, it had to be super big in our house growing up -- they would get a bottle of Lancer's.

GAITER: I went to college with Boone's Farm apple wine and strawberry wine. Everyone starts somewhere. With John it was...

BRECHER: It was Mateus and Lancer's. You know, like an OK date, Mateus, very special date, Lancer's.

GAITER: And I was?

BRECHER: You were champagne.

GAITER: Oh, thank you. I think he had to say that.

BRECHER: We have a chapter that's, don't be embarrassed about the Blue Nun in your past, because we all have a Blue Nun in our past. We all started somewhere. We all started with Blue Nun or Mateus or something that now we look back with a combination of kind of fascination and amusement and total horror.

But don't be embarrassed about where you started. What's important is where you're going with wine.

BROWN: That's an interesting way to look at it.

You do see wine as something you sort of build a knowledge upon. I mean, you start someplace and you learn -- whether you like it or not, I mean, that's really that simple, isn't it?

GAITER: Yeah. We don't stress learning, but enjoyment.

BROWN: Enjoying it.

GAITER: And as you enjoy it more, you naturally want to know more about it.

BROWN: Does the book help people with -- I find this part frustrating at some times. The right wine with the right piece of lamb or the right piece of fish, or the right this or that.

Do you get into that?

BRECHER: Oh, absolutely, because people ask about that...

BROWN: This is...

BRECHER: ... all the time.

BROWN: ... a great (UNINTELLIGIBLE) wine.

BRECHER: Oh, glad you like it.

GAITER: Thank you.

BRECHER: People ask about that all the time. And so, that's something that throughout the book, informs the book, because wine, after all, is something you have with food.

BROWN: Yeah.

BRECHER: So, people want to know, ...

BROWN: You do?

BRECHER: ... what do I have with this?

(LAUGHTER)

BRECHER: We do.

BROWN: Oh, OK. All right.

GAITER: And it's life affirming. You know, whenever we pick up a glass of wine, we're toasting to life.

BROWN: Do people write you and say, you know, you wrote about such-and-such a bottle wine. What are you, nuts? I tried that wine and it's awful.

GAITER: Yeah. We say, well, you know, our taste is different than yours. No one is right. I can't tell you what tastes good to you.

BROWN: Right. Do you remember -- we had this conversation once. People remember wines and they don't. Is there any tip for -- do you have any advice for people to remember the wines, so that the next time they go in to the wine store -- which is a whole another area, too, finding a wine store...

BRECHER: It sure is.

BROWN: ... I'm sure -- how to go about it?

GAITER: Your wife is amazing. She can remember. Most people can't do that.

BROWN: Yeah.

GAITER: We write down everything. We soak off labels, if we're in a restaurant and we have a wine that we like...

BROWN: You ask...

GAITER: ... oh, yeah.

BROWN: ... (UNINTELLIGIBLE) to soak the label off for you?

BRECHER: Oh, yeah.

GAITER: He's a serious soaker.

BRECHER: And at restaurants, people are embarrassed to ask for the bottle. Don't be embarrassed. The restaurant will be very flattered.

Because remember, you want to save that label, not so much really so that you can remember the wine, but so that you can remember the moment. That's really what it's all about. I mean, it's more than liquid in the bottle. There are all sorts of memories.

BROWN: I enjoy the moments with you both a lot. It's nice to see you again. My best...

GAITER: Good to see you.

BROWN: ... to your children, as well.

GAITER: Thank you.

BROWN: They're spectacular looking kids. Still ahead on NEWSNIGHT, a brief postscript to a difficult week. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Finally from us, a story that's a good way to end a very difficult week, about a survivor moving ahead.

In those first hours after the attack, I interviewed a young man, Matt Cornelius, who had managed to escape the North Tower. It was the first story like that I'd heard.

And I wondered over the year, often out loud, how he was doing. We got in touch with him yesterday, and this is a bit of what he e- mailed back.

He said, "There isn't a day that goes by that I don't remember the horror I witnessed, or hear the sound of the plane hitting the building, that feeling of standing in a hot, smoky stairwell just wanting to get out.

"As the anniversary approached, the feelings of uneasiness and stress definitely intensified. But as I move forward, I almost immediately feel more relaxed, although since September 11, there is one constant in my life -- a deep, fundamental sadness."

Matt credits his family and his friends for helping him and his girlfriend get through the year. And he added this.

"I feel much better today" -- he wrote this yesterday -- "than I have for the past six weeks."

This has been a long and difficult week for the country and for each of us. Lots of tears, lots of anger and fear.

But we also hope a sense that a corner has been turned. That like Matt, we feel better today, having gotten to this point a year later.

Have a wonderful, peaceful, restful weekend. We'll see you next week. Good night for all of us at NEWSNIGHT.

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