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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown
Authorities in Montgomery County Still Cannot Find Reason Behind Five Murders; Gunman Fires Shots at U.N. Building
Aired October 03, 2002 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, again. I'm Aaron Brown.
There are nights when we give our left brain a big workout. Tonight, though, it is more of a right brain program.
The left brain, as the theory goes, is the logical, analytical, rational part. The part we use to sort out the complexities of Iraq or U.N. resolutions, geopolitics, and that. The right brain deals with those things that have no logic, no rhyme or reason. And it is the right brain that hurts tonight; ours, and I expect yours.
We've been dealing with three appalling stories this week, stories that have no logic or none that we can see. We'll end the program tonight in a small town in Nebraska; a town in tears as it buries six friends and neighbors. We'll start with five random murders today in Maryland.
Five people who got up today to get the paper, water the lawn, pick up the mail, shot down. And in the back of our minds we keep drifting back to Milwaukee and this mob of children, as best we can tell, most of whom no one loved very much at all, who beat a man to death over the weekend, some sort of revenge. The youngest there is 10.
The big and important stories we get. We can understand the debate over Iraq; we get the political dispute in New Jersey; both sides of it. We can make no sense out of the string of killings we deal with tonight, except that they make our head hurt and our heart break.
We begin with the shooting deaths in Montgomery County in Maryland. Bob Franken has been on that all day and is with us tonight -- Bob, a headline from you, please.
BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, Montgomery County is a mostly affluent suburb of Washington, D.C., where they have maybe 25 murders in the average year. But in a 16-hour period, they had five: random, senseless, so far no explanation.
BROWN: Bob, thank you. We'll be back with you in a moment.
Also on the program tonight we'll go to Rayne, Louisiana, aptly named tonight, as hurricane Lili came through earlier today. Frank Buckley joins us from there in a little bit.
And news out of the U.N. today of two kinds. Richard Roth joins us tonight with that -- Richard, a headline from you, please.
RICHARD ROTH, CNN SENIOR U.N. CORRESPONDENT: A gunman opens fire outside United Nations headquarters in New York, while inside the Security Council debates weapons inspections in Iraq.
BROWN: Richard, thank you. Back to you and the rest in just a moment.
Also coming up in the program tonight former FBI special agent Clint Van Zandt on who or whom might fit the profile in Maryland in the murder case there. We'll hear from Senator Bill Frist on his challenge to what the Democrats want to do in the New Jersey Senate race. It reached the U.S. Supreme Court today.
Judith Miller of the "New York Times" will join us a year after the first anthrax case. And we'll get her take on Iraq and the weapons Saddam might possess.
And a fascinating look tonight at John Walker Lindh. What he did at an al Qaeda training camp and what Osama bin Laden said to him.
And we'll end it all, as we said, with a special look at a little Nebraska town that is burying its dead a week after a bank robbery that continues to trouble the city.
All of that and more in the hour ahead.
We begin with something that the police chief of Montgomery County Maryland said today: "Our homicide rate has just increased by 25 percent in a single day." Five people just going about their day, one mowing the lawn, another getting gas, still another at a post office.
The small town calm of it all shattered by one, maybe two murderers who are out there somewhere tonight who seem to be skilled at shooting and seemed almost to be killing for sport. Once again, CNN's Bob Franken.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FRANKEN (voice-over): While police say there is no apparent connections between the victims, their killer or killers have been operating in a calculated way. Six shots have been fired at six locations, all within a few miles of each other here in a Maryland suburb of Washington. Five have been killed. Schools let out at their normal times after students were kept inside all day.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's crazy. I mean, you know, I have kids that, you know, go to school around here and it's pretty nuts.
FRANKEN: Police spread out in a massive manhunt.
CHARLES MOOSE, POLICE CHIEF: We feel like we probably have a skilled shooter, and that does heighten our concern.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're also offering a reward of up to $50,000 for information leading to the arrest and indictment of whoever is responsible for this.
FRANKEN: The incidents began Wednesday evening. A single shot crashed through a craft store window. No one was hit. But a half- hour later at a nearby supermarket, another shot rang out. This time a 55-year-old man was killed outside the store.
The shootings resumed in the morning at 7:41. A man cutting his grass in the area was shot dead. Less than a half-hour later a cab driver was filling up his car at a service station. He was shot and killed.
Another half-hour after that a woman was shot dead outside a post office near a retirement home. A little over an hour later another murder. Again, a single shot. This time it took the life of a woman who was simply at a service station vacuuming her van.
JOHN MISTRY, SERVICE STATION CO-OWNER: A couple of ladies come from there and she said, "There is something wrong with this lady." So we went to go, you know, help her to pull her out because the door was on top of her. We couldn't pull her out.
FRANKEN: Police quote some witnesses as saying they may have spotted two people in a vehicle described as a box-type truck with a damaged tailgate. Trucks were being stopped throughout the area.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FRANKEN: School officials say they are going to schedule classes as normal tomorrow, but, Aaron, obviously things are very much not normal in Montgomery County, Maryland.
BROWN: Two things, Bob. The first, just a fact question here. Has more than one witness described the car or the truck or the SUV, whatever it is?
FRANKEN: As a matter of fact, no. Only one witness at one of the incidents, and the police are not sure if that witness saw the actual vehicle or if he saw another vehicle driving away perhaps out of fear because of hearing the shots or something like that. They really have a real absence of many clues this evening.
BROWN: All right. The other one is, I guess, a little bit more frightening or a lot more frightening. I assume here that police have no reason to believe that this is over.
FRANKEN: As a matter of fact, they are very worried about tomorrow morning, because four of the five murders were committed beginning this morning. So their particular concern, their highest degree of tension is going to be starting tomorrow morning.
BROWN: And there's no, best I can deduce here, just trying to remember crimes like this, there's no reason to assume that whatever happens tomorrow, if something happens tomorrow, will happen in Montgomery County, Maryland. It could happen in Richmond, Virginia or Toledo, Ohio. FRANKEN: As a matter of fact, right. The District of Columbia, Washington, which is adjacent to Montgomery County, followed this county's suit and also had the kids stay inside the schools today, no extracurricular activities, that type of thing.
BROWN: Bob, thank you. Bob Franken, who has the tough duty tonight on this one.
About this time last night we were all bracing for the wrath of Lili, to use one of those time-honored hurricane cliches. And I joked at the end of the program to a guest from the National Hurricane Center that we hoped he was wrong about just how bad Lili was looking.
It turns out it's one of those rare times where our hopes came true. The storm weakened so dramatically overnight that forecasters were simply stunned. One saying a lot of PhDs will be written about this.
None of this is to say that Lili didn't cause enormous damage and, in fact, is still causing plenty of problems. Here's CNN's Frank Buckley.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Hurricane Lili let loose on Louisiana, but didn't deliver on its potential to come ashore as a Category 4 hurricane.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm feeling relieved and thankful.
BUCKLEY: But even as a Category 2, it brought 100-mile-an-hour winds and punishing rain. Lili left in its wake damaged homes and businesses, toppled trees and power lines, and a number of tractor trailers on their sides, caught by the hurricane's winds as it roared across the state.
(on camera): Others played it safe, either staying off the roads completely or, like these truckers here along Interstate 10, they parked underneath overpasses to wait out the wind.
(voice-over): No deaths were reported but there were close calls. In Rayne, Louisiana, bricks showered two workers at the water treatment plant. One man was in this car. Another took a direct hit. Neither suffered severe injuries.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was looking down and then like a whole sheet -- one section right here, just completely crashed on top of him. He's lucky, he's very lucky.
BUCKLEY: A sentiment heard across the state as people came out from shelters and looked over the damage. If it had been a Category 4, they all knew it would have been much worse.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, yes. God answered the prayers last night.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BUCKLEY: And we are back live here in Rayne, Louisiana, looking at the bricks that fell on those two men. Again, we should tell you that neither of them suffered serious injuries. Also, I want to tell you, Aaron, that the truck driver and his dog that were in that truck that you saw flipping over in the videotape, both of them were able to walk away from that. Neither of them suffered serious injuries.
Tonight, more than 400,000 people here in Louisiana remain without power. And thousands of people have not been able to return back to their homes -- Aaron.
BROWN: Frank, thank you. Frank Buckley in Rayne, Louisiana, where it looked like the rain had stopped, at least for now.
There were some expected developments at the United Nations today and one scary unexpected development as well. Our U.N. correspondent, Richard Roth, doesn't normally do crime blotter stuff, but today he finds himself covering that beat as well. So we turn to Richard. A little nice to find you safe and sound today.
ROTH: Aaron, everybody at the United Nations was waiting for the end of the Security Council meeting involving Iraq, when suddenly in my office on the fourth floor of the U.N., I heard pop, pop, pop. I looked out, I saw somebody shooting a pistol straight up in the air and then he threw the gun down and started to walk away.
Then he went over to a bag that he had left on the ground there. And you'll see he threw leaflets in the air. He is protesting conditions for the people in North Korea. And then he leaned against that flagpole and basically said, "Come and get me."
Quickly -- some say not that quickly -- State Department Secret Service who happened to be on the grounds for the visit of the president of Cyprus were on him. Held him at gunpoint and then eventually took him away.
Steven Kim is his name. He's a postal worker from Illinois. He has a legal permit to carry a pistol, though they don't know if this is the gun the license is for.
His son says he and his father were in New York two weekends ago, came to the United Nations, stood outside the U.N. didn't go in. His father, the son says, expressed no animosity towards the United Nations and seemed totally normal.
As for what happened with the shots, well, four slugs were found in the United Nations headquarters above the 18th floor. They're still trying to dig them out tonight. Several people are lucky to be alive. They were either not there, they were out sick, or, as someone said, everyone hit the floor.
And that's exactly what happened in the United Nations headquarters. Two of the people were treated for some type of trauma. They were in the World Trade Center area on September 11.
BROWN: And he's been charged with what, do we know? And by who, by the way?
ROTH: He's going to be charged. He's in federal custody, arraigned tomorrow. Dignity protection law violations, and there may be some additional charges.
BROWN: And the U.N. space itself is considered under federal jurisdiction, is that the...
ROTH: International territory. And the U.N. security handles it. And he hopped a fence, and the U.N. security says they need to beef things up. They're waiting for items in the budget.
BROWN: OK. Perhaps not too much longer we hope.
All right. Let's go inside, and there was actually business being done.
ROTH: Well they didn't hear the shots in the Security Council, but they are certainly talking about even more impressive weapons on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program. And Hans Blix, the chief weapons inspector just back from two days of talks in Vienna, came out and told the Security Council members that he's not going to go in mid-October, as he's supposed to depart with his team, or certainly the team is on October 19.
They are going to wait until the Security Council basically decides its political course of action. There's no mandate, there's no agreement among the big five permanent powers. So he is going to wait.
And he also said there were loose ends to tie up. That's the ability of his inspectors to work in the no-fly areas where the U.s. planes patrol. And the rather large loose end of those eight presidential site complexes, more than 1,000 buildings.
BROWN: Then what was the point of this whole song and dance in Vienna over the last couple of days? You negotiate a deal based on resolutions. You say we've got a deal and then you come back and say we're not going to do it.
ROTH: Well, they actually think they made progress there because they got Iraq to say other sites, mosques, government ministries are open. It was the first test of the Security council to see if Iraq would live up to their commitment to cooperate, even if it was just two days of Vienna negotiations.
They never were going to make progress on the presidential sites. The real problem is now the big five: Russia, China, France, Britain and the U.S. have to decide is there going to be one resolution, two? Will the U.S. get to threaten force, that kind of thing.
BROWN: Richard, thank you. Quite a day over there on the east side. Richard Roth, who covers the U.N. for us.
Clearly, there's no guarantee the president will get exactly what he wants from the United Nations. There's also no guarantee he will get what he can live with from the United Nations. That being the case, the administration has some problems; some of them international and some of them domestic, political problems.
The president talked today about building a vast coalition to fight a war with Iraq. Our senior White House correspondent John King tonight on the meaning of both: vast and coalition.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The president faces an uphill fight at the United Nations and is making clear he has a backup plan.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: My intent is to put together a vast coalition of countries who understand the threat of Saddam Hussein.
KING: Administration officials say any U.S.-led coalition would begin with Great Britain, Italy, Australia and most likely Spain. Romania and Bulgaria are offering bases and black seaports. And the White House also counts Poland as an anti-Iraq ally.
Administration sources say Kuwait, Bahrain, Ghana, and Oman would allow use of U.S. bases in those Arab nations, even if they are not publicly supportive of a confrontation with Iraq.
BUSH: Military option is my last choice, not my first. It's my last choice. But Saddam has got to understand, the United Nations must know that the will of this country is strong.
KING: The White House preference is a coalition under the banner of the United Nations. But Russia, China and France remain skeptical of the need for a tough new Security Council resolution before weapons inspectors return to Iraq. The administration insists its private diplomacy is yielding progress.
COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: I'm optimistic that we will find a way forward in the Security Council. We must find a way forward if the Security Council will retain its relevance.
KING: The chief U.N. weapons inspector is due in Washington for talks on Friday. It has been three weeks since President Bush told the United Nations he wanted the Iraq debate settled in days and weeks not months and years.
(on camera): Senior officials say the president wishes the U.N. debate would move more quickly, but is not overly frustrated just yet. As one top aide put it, "Let's see where we are at this point next week."
John King, CNN, the White House.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Ahead on NEWSNIGHT: a year after, are we any closer to knowing who was behind the anthrax attacks? And are we any better prepared to handle another round, should that happen.
Up next, more on the shootings outside of Washington, D.C. We'll talk with profiler Clint Van Zandt. This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: More now on the murders in Maryland and the hunt to find who is responsible. "Baffling" seems to be the best word to describe what happened today in Montgomery County. But that doesn't mean that profilers have nothing to go on.
We're joined again tonight, as we often are on bad days like this, I must say, by former FBI special agent Cliff Van Zandt. He joins us from Washington. It is good to see you, but the circumstances are not.
CLINT VAN ZANDT, FMR. FBI SPECIAL AGENT: Thank you.
BROWN: OK. Let's talk about who it is we're looking for here. This is not a Ted Bundy sort of killer, right?
VAN ZANDT: No. No, not at all. You know Bundy, of course, was a serial killer. And, as you know, you get someone like David Huberty (ph), who was the killer at San Ysidro, California at the McDonald's years ago, who killed 25-plus, that's a mass murderer.
This guy is more like a -- he's a spree killer. He is like an Andrew Cunanan, who killed fashion designer Gianni Versace. These individuals move from one crime to another to another. There's no emotional cooling off period in between.
And, Aaron, I'm afraid this is kind of emotional heroine. These guys like what they're doing.
BROWN: They are doing it, excuse the expression, for fun?
VAN ZANDT: Yes. I think they are doing it for fun. This is like individuals who would out and use a paint gun to shoot people or take a broom and hit people at a bus stop 30 or 40 years ago.
This individual or these two men are out with a high-powered rifle killing people from at least 150 yards away, probably giving each other at least emotional, if not psychological, high-fives when they do something like this.
These are stone-cold antisocial personalities; these are psychopaths; these are killers, and they are capable of continuing to do this.
BROWN: I'm afraid to hear the answer to this. Are they watching tonight in a way and enjoying the fact that we're talking about them?
VAN ZANDT: Absolutely. They're not sitting there shaking and saying, my god, the police have information on us. They are sitting there with their 15 minutes of Andy Warhol fame saying, "Isn't that cool? They're talking about us. The whole world is talking about us and we are so smart that we're evading law enforcement." They enjoy this.
BROWN: Are they young, are they old, or somewhere in between?
VAN ZANDT: Well, you know, again, we have little to know -- eyewitness identification. But this is more of a crime for a younger person than an old. You know if I found out this was somebody 40- years-old plus, I would really be surprised.
This is more of the type of risk-taking, this is the type of immature behavior that we've seen in some of the school shootings around the United States. So this behavior probably is more consistent with the 16 to 17 to 25-year-old range than it would be for 35 to 50-years-old.
BROWN: Is this a person or are these people who started planning this six months ago, or is this somebody who woke up yesterday and said, "Let's go out and kill some people?"
VAN ZANDT: Yes. I think probably in the last 24 or 48 hours, some event, some cataclysmic, as far as they were concerned, incident happened. You and I may just say, gee, that's just one more ounce on a scale of pounds, but that was enough to have them, "Let's go out and level the playing field."
I think when we find this person or these two men, you know they are not going to be rocket scientists, they are not going to be academically, socially or professionally achievers. We're going to find out that society has probably trotted on them. They are blaming the world, and this is the way they are leveling the playing field.
And they are going out like, you know, I might have done as a kid with a BB gun shooting Coke cans. They are out shooting human beings and they don't even realize the damage, the horror and the ripple effect that this has to our entire society. All they care about is themselves.
BROWN: Clint, they don't realize it or they don't care about it?
VAN ZANDT: Well, that's interesting. You make a very good point. Probably more the latter.
Probably that they don't care. And the scary thing is, you know in their mind, once you kill one, once you kill five or six, the criminal justice system isn't going to do anything more to you. So they present a tremendous challenge, not only in repeating this type of activity, but for the men and women of law enforcement that are out stopping these cars and trucks all over the northern Virginia/Maryland area, every time is a potential death sentence for a law enforcement officer.
We don't pay these men and women enough. And yet they are the thin blue line that's trying keep these people, these two individuals away from the rest of us.
BROWN: Quickly, let me try and get a couple more things done in a minute, if I can. VAN ZANDT: Sure.
BROWN: Are they likely to be caught alive?
VAN ZANDT: Probably not. I mean law enforcement would do everything they can, but these individuals, again, they may try to go out in suicide by cop in this final volcanic type of eruption where they create a shootout. They may take their own lives, but law enforcement is going to have to be very careful when they identify them.
And, Aaron, this is a case that absolutely the people watching your program who know about this, somebody in this country knows who these people are or has a suspicion. This case is going to be broken by citizens knowing something and they step up to the plate.
Since September 11 we are our brother's keeper. And in a situation like this, we are too.
BROWN: That was actually my last question. Are they likely to be caught? And I think the answer is, if everybody does what they ought to do in circumstances like this, yes.
Clint, it's good to see you.
VAN ZANDT: Yes.
BROWN: When they're caught -- hopefully they're caught -- we'll talk again and see how it all matches up. We learn each time. Thank you, Clint Van Zandt.
VAN ZANDT: We do.
BROWN: Coming up on NEWSNIGHT: the secrets that John Walker Lindh told investigators. A special CNN report, as NEWSNIGHT continues on a Thursday from New York.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: The chapter is about to end in the strange story of John Walker Lindh, who grew up in California but was captured in an entirely different world, entirely different life in Mazar-e-Sharif in Afghanistan.
John Walker Lindh is scheduled to be sentenced tomorrow in a U.S. District Court in Arlington, Virginia. It's expected he'll go to prison for a term of 20 years and serve most of it.
As part of the plea bargain that allowed Lindh to avoid an even harsher sentence, a sentence of life in prison, he agreed to tell the government what he knows. So what does he know?
CNN's Mike Boettcher tonight has gathered together testimony we have not been allowed to hear until now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) MIKE BOETTCHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): First he was interviewed by CNN.
JOHN WALKER LINDH: I haven't spoken English with native speakers in several months. I've been speaking Arabic.
BOETTCHER: Then John Walker Lindh was questioned by U.S. Special Forces, and then the FBI. Those interrogations were never made public. His attorneys tried to suppress them, saying they were made under duress.
That was before Walker Lindh cut a plea bargain with federal prosecutors. Now CNN has obtained copies of the reports made by the U.S. military and the FBI. Reports that reveal new details about Walker Lindh, what he was doing in Afghanistan, and new information that hints at possible new attacks against America.
John Walker Lindh was among a group of Taliban soldiers that surrendered to the Northern Alliance in late November. They were taken to Mazar-e-Sharif, where Walker Lindh and others were questioned by two CIA employees.
When many of the prisoners staged a revolt, Walker Lindh, who was wounded in the leg, hid out, finally surrendering after a week. That is when the interrogations by Special Forces began.
Walker Lindh told his questioners that he began his journey to Islam after seeing the movie "Malcolm X" when he was 12 years old. That launched an odyssey that took him from being a teenage Muslim convert to northern California, to an Arabic school in Yemen, to Pakistan and finally Afghanistan.
By the summer of 2001, according to interrogation reports, Walker Lindh was at this camp, al-Faruq, run by al Qaeda for a seven-week training course.
WALKER LINDH: I came with the Pakistanis.
BOETTCHER: Walker Lindh was also questioned three times by the FBI over two days. The report says he was advised of his rights each time and waived them. He told them that although he wanted to join the Taliban, he was sent to al-Faruq because the Arab group is Osama bin Laden's, al Qaeda's group. And that was the only way to get to the front lines.
The report continues: "Lindh new UBL's al Qaeda's purpose was to fight Americans." Walker Lindh outlined a training course at the camp that included three weeks of weapons familiarization, one week of topography, maps, one week of battlefield training, one week of explosives.
Walker Lindh told his interrogators that bin Laden visited the camp three to five times while he was there, usually with one of his sons. He said he met bin Laden once for five minutes with other recruits, and that bin Laden made small talk and thanked them all for taking part in the jihad. Walker Lindh told the FBI that the head of all al Qaeda's training camps personally asked him if he would take part in missions against the U.S. and Israel. He said he declined that. He also turned down the chance to swear allegiance to al Qaeda. "Instead," says the report, "he swore allegiance to jihad."
Walker Lindh did not mention any other Americans being at al- Faruq, even though several men from Buffalo would later be arrested and charged with being at the camp at the same time. Walker Lindh was on the frontlines with the Taliban unit when the 9/11 attacks took place. His military questioners say, "Source showed remorse and signs of regret," when he was asked about the attacks.
He told his interrogators that one of his former instructors was there, and told the group that this was the first attack. That a second wave would come at the beginning of Ramadan in mid November and make America forget about the first attack. The instructor also talked of a third wave in early 2002, but provided no details.
While Walker Lindh told his Special Forces interrogators that the second phase of attacks could involve biological weapons or attacks on nuclear weapons facilities, there is a comment from the questioners saying, "Source was making assumptions and conjectures based on talk among his colleagues."
Even before he left the al-Faruq camp, Walker Lindh said one of his instructors told him that bin Laden sent 50 people to carry out 20 suicide operations and that the group believed the attacks were aimed at the U.S. and Israel.
At the end of his questioning by the military, John Walker Lindh shared a final thought about Osama bin Laden's whereabouts. Walker Lindh said families of al Qaeda members had been moved from Afghanistan to Yemen during 2001 and that he thought Osama bin Laden may be planning on moving there.
Mike Boettcher, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: John Walker Lindh sentenced tomorrow.
A few other stories from around the country making news today, beginning with the labor dispute that has shut down ports on the West Coast, causing trouble all over the country.
Federal mediators met with longshoremen and port employers today, trying to end the lockout by management. Talks came as there was more pressure on both sides to reach a settlement from politicians, including California Senator Barbara Boxer. The cost of the shutdown is estimated at $1 billion dollars a day.
A rough week, it seems, for Martha Stewart. She resigned today from the board of directors of the New York Stock Exchange. Yesterday an assistant to Ms. Stewart's stock broker pleaded guilty of taking money to keep quiet about a stock sale last year of her friend's company, ImClone, just before the shares in that company plummeted.
And the father of Gwyneth Paltrow has died. That line doesn't do justice to Bruce Paltrow, who was quite a force in the entertainment business in his own right, a producer and a director in film and in TV. Probably best known for the series "St. Elsewhere" and "The White Shadow." Mr. Paltrow died of pneumonia and recurrent cancer. He was just 58.
Still to come on NEWSNIGHT: the town is still struggling with the effects of a crime that took but 40 seconds to commit.
And up next: the ballot battle in New Jersey. It makes its way to the U.S. Supreme Court.
This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: An urgent last-minute appeal to the United States Supreme Court is not something you fax or FedEx; you have it hand-delivered, which is exactly what the Republican Party did today in its bid to get the nation's high court to review the decision of the New Jersey Supreme Court that allows the Democratic Party to replace Robert Torricelli, the candidate who dropped out of the senatorial race, with Frank Lautenberg, who is supposed to step in.
Got it?
The man who made that delivery was Republican Senator Bill Frist of Tennessee, who happens, also, to be a physician. Perhaps his colleagues thought he'd best be able to deal with the severe aches and pains this is bound to cause.
We spoke with the senator earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Senator, I read a quote of yours where you accused the Democrats of trying steal the election. I just want to make sure that's the word you want to use here.
SEN. BILL FRIST (R), TENNESSEE: That's a pretty good word, because what they're doing is ethically and legally, I believe, reprehensible.
BROWN: If, in fact, you believe that they're trying to steal the election, then you must also believe, don't you, that the New Jersey Supreme Court is complicit in that theft, because the court voted unanimously to make the ballot change.
FRIST: What we have done today is filed with the United States Supreme Court a stay of action which, indeed, would overturn what the court did yesterday.
We're basing this suit on Article 1, section 4 of the Constitution. It's a constitutional issue, and that's why it's at the Supreme Court, which is the elections clause clearly says that it's up to the state legislatures to determine time, manner and place of federal elections, not -- not -- supreme courts of states.
And that's why we've taken this to the federal Supreme Court.
BROWN: Well, what the New Jersey court -- which, as you know, has both Democrats and Republicans on it -- what the New Jersey court said is that the law in New Jersey does not specifically prohibit this change of candidates within the 51 days. And that was the basis of the ruling.
FRIST: I'm not sure that's what they said.
They said they felt -- they felt -- and, again, they didn't rewrite the election law, but they did, in effect -- that they felt it was in the public issue -- in the public interest to give choice.
Indeed, we would argue that under New Jersey statute, which is crystal clear -- crystal clear -- that within 51 days you can't be switching people in and out of the election process, taking them off of the ballot.
Now, if they die -- I agree Torricelli is maybe politically dead -- but he is not physically dead.
We can have chaos in elections all over the country if we're going to allow 20 days out, 30 days out, 40 days out just because somebody is losing to drop out and pull somebody in like it's a relay race.
And remember -- I think this is important, because I think we're setting a terrible precedent for election -- federal elections all over the country if we allow this entry and this exit at any point in time. And people are outraged about that.
BROWN: On the -- a couple more things. On the question of precedent here, are you at all concerned? Do you have any concern at all that, for the second time in two election cycles, an important political question is going to be decided by the courts, and how that might reflect on the standing of the courts as above the political fray?
FRIST: Well, our goal, really on behalf of the people of New Jersey, is to make sure that the laws of New Jersey, the federal election laws passed by their state legislature, and according to the Constitution of the United States, what governs our elections, are upheld. And we contend that it is illegal and, thus, I believe outrageous, the fact that a state supreme court can come in and, against what the state legislature -- which, according to the Constitution, decides what they have determined is their election law.
And if we repeatedly are going to have election laws just thrown out the window and not contested, it sets a dangerous precedent for every federal election that is coming along the line. And that precedent we simply cannot tolerate. We can simply not lie over and say, we're going to let the courts come in and overturn what the Constitution intended.
BROWN: I understand that. And respectfully, let me ask the question again, if I may. Do you have any concern that, once again, the courts, as they were in the Florida case, the Supreme Court is being asked to settle an important political question; in this case, a question that might ultimately determine which party controls the Senate?
FRIST: You know, that's why we're taking it to the Supreme Court. I don't think that the state courts -- and again, I'm trying to answer your question directly -- I don't think the state supreme courts -- and, indeed, it was decided in the Florida election as well, that the state supreme court can overrule what the legislative body has both written in statute and the intent of that law.
And that's why it does go to the United States Supreme Court to make that decision. What does the Constitution say?
And I think -- if it weren't a constitutional issue we wouldn't be pursuing this. We're going straight to the United States Supreme Court to decide that very question.
Do I care, or do I think it should influence what the Supreme Court does or decides based on what happened in Florida? You know, not really. What I think is important is to uphold the law of the land in New Jersey.
And that's what the people of New Jersey want. They are sick and tired. And this is about as straight as I can say it: The people of New Jersey are sick and tired for their political figures, or this gaming of -- for partisan reasons -- this gaming of the election process for partisan advantage.
Senator Torricelli, with all respect to him, basically, as he said, I'm going to pull my name off the ballot, regardless of what the law says. There's a sense of arrogance about that, saying he's doing it for partisan reasons. He said, I'm losing; I'm losing, and that's the only reason. It's not because I've done anything wrong.
And what about if we have candidates all over the country up for federal election 30 days out basically say, I am losing. Regardless of what the federal election laws, I'm getting out and bringing somebody else in. Chaos, confusion and ultimately an erosion of the democratic process.
BROWN: Senator, it's good to talk to you. I know your time is scarce today. We appreciate some of it. Thank you very much.
FRIST: Good to be with you. Thank you, Aaron.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Senator Frist earlier today.
The court has the case. No guarantee the court will accept the case. We should know that in a couple of days. Later on NEWSNIGHT: the toughest job in Washington, trying to create a national monument.
Up next, we go to a small Nebraska town where things just haven't been the same since just before 9:00 a.m. a week ago Thursday.
This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: A simple sentence: "It can't happen here." How often have you heard those words? They are not words spoken by the residents of a New York or a Los Angeles, not Chicago or even Des Moines because people there know it -- whatever "it" is -- can happen there, and probably has.
It is a sentence spoken by people who live in places like Blue Earth or War Road, Union, or Bent, places where locking the door is something you do only if you're leaving the town for a while, and Main Street is often the only street.
"It can't happen here" is being heard these days in Norfolk, Nebraska.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(voice-over): There are no good days for a funeral, but the unexpected cold and rain made this one, the sixth here in just the past three days, seem especially sad.
KENT WARNEKE, EDITOR, "NORFOLK DAILY NEWS": Well, to have six funerals within the span of three days, all related to the same incident, it's overwhelming emotionally. And that's just for the people who don't necessarily have the strongest, even, connection to the victims.
BROWN: All of the deaths in this normally placid corner of northeast Nebraska stemmed from a single, horrible bank robbery. The most violent bank robbery in the United States in more than a decade; killings that left everyone here, residents and police, stunned.
BILL MIZNER, CHIEF OF POLICE: I've lived here for 40 years. It's just a really great place to live, to raise kids and that kind of thing just doesn't happen here.
UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: For us, and I think for maybe anyplace in the country, to have had this happen, where three individuals walk into a bank and end up killing five people, that just is unbelievable.
BROWN: By the time police arrived at the small branch office of U.S. Bank, four bank employees were dead, so was one customer.
The suspect, who authorities say had been in and out of trouble with the law for years, did not take a single penny. According to police, one watched, the others went inside. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The surveillance tapes the bank used show that the three other suspects came in and, almost immediately after entering the bank, split up. One went to an office. Another one went to a different office at the other side of the facility. Another went to the front counter. And they almost immediately began shooting.
BROWN: Those surveillance tapes have yet to be shown publicly. But those who saw them say the entire incident, from start to finish, takes but 40 seconds.
MIKE BARKS, NORFOLK RESIDENT: It's incomprehensible to think that happens in Norfolk, Nebraska. That stuff happens in L.A. or New York or some other big town. It doesn't happen in Norfolk.
BROWN: Since the killings, this town has been described in terms that are almost quaint: a small town dependent on corn and cattle for its economic well-being. And that is true to a point.
But Norfolk is the financial and retail hub for a third of the state of Nebraska, and some people here say they think nothing of carrying around large amounts of cash.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I never lock my doors, never lock my pickup. I usually have thousands of dollars sitting in the back of my pickup.
BROWN: For many, the sixth victim of the robbery is the most perplexing. Nebraska state trooper Mark Zack killed himself the day after the bank robbery. It seemed that he stopped one of the suspects a week before, a routine traffic stop, and that he failed to notice a gun the man was carrying had been stolen.
The trooper confiscated the gun, but let the man go.
LYLE WEYRICH, MARK ZACH'S FATHER-IN-LAW: Everyone that knew Mark had a fond memory that they could grab. And I would like the community, if they knew Mark, to think of their favorite moment with Mark and maybe walk around this area with a smile on their face.
And I hope that with a smile, and with love, we'll all get through this.
BROWN: There is a lot to get through in town these days, and few good reasons to smile.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Still ahead tonight on NEWSNIGHT, the toughest part of being an artist: trying please everyone.
A short break, then we're back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Finally from us tonight -- the greatest generation etched in stone. It will be quite awhile before we get to the point of an actual memorial -- not the redevelopment plans but a memorial for 9/11. And you can bet when we get there it will be a long and heated debate on what's the best way to do it.
This is the story about one artist helping to remember another war who's had to deal with a lot of competing interests and visions. And who's now well on his way to carving out, in a striking way, such an important part of history.
Here's CNN's Bruce Morton.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRUCE MORTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Raymond Kaskey did this justice. The original's on a Virginia courthouse. This sculpture at Washington's Police Memorial. Now he's involved in something much bigger. He's going to be on the Mall.
RAYMOND KASKEY, SCULPTOR: It doesn't get any more special than that. I mean, there's Daniel Chester French's Lincoln at one end and there Henry Shrady's Grant at the other end. And nothing in between in terms of sculpture.
MORTON: Kaskey is doing 24 barleys -- 22 inches high, 64 inches wide -- which will fit inside (UNINTELLIGIBLE) part of the World War II memorial. But how did you tell about World War II in 24 scenes?
KASKEY: And then to pick 12 that represented the Atlantic Front and 12 that represented the Pacific Front was about two years work of boiling things down.
MORTON: You wouldn't believe how many had to approve each design.
KASKEY: And there is the client committee which is American Battle Monuments Commission, the National Capitol Planning Commission, the Fine Arts Commission, the General Services Administration and anybody else who happens to be in the room at the time with suggestions. Some of them silly and sometimes good.
MORTON: Kaskey -- he has three assistants with him now -- has been at this for more than two years. What's been approved -- this could change, of course -- is 24 story boards with the basic ideas.
Some specific events. This is D-Day. This U.S. and Soviet soldiers meeting at the Elbe River. And some generic. Americans getting drafted. Women working on an airplane. Women joined the workforce in droves. The nickname was Rosie the Riveter. A graves squad. And Americans being happy on V-J Day.
Anything of the finished stuff in plaster been approved yet?
KASKEY: I don't know whether this was ambiguous at the last meeting. I think this has been approved. At any rate it's cast.
MORTON: He's had some rejections. Political correctness counts -- few cigarettes here thought millions smoked back then. No atom bomb. These sculptures matter because they are the only people the memorial will show. Kaskey and his team are working on some of the other stuff too -- service seals, arches and so on. But the people, he thinks, are special.
KASKEY: I just sort of identify with that period in history, and my father in the war as a tail gunner in a V-17 which is one of the panels that I'm doing. So I feel invested in that personally through my family.
MORTON: And, again, these are the only people the memorial will show. The only faces of the greatest generation.
KASKEY: Yes. It's the only sort of representative sculpture or realistic sculpture. And I think people will look hard at them.
MORTON: Bruce Morton, CNN, Brentwood, Maryland.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: That's our report for tonight. Tough day. Back again tomorrow at 10:00. "AMERICAN MORNING" 7:00 a.m. Eastern.
Until we see you, good night from all of us at NEWSNIGHT.
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Behind Five Murders; Gunman Fires Shots at U.N. Building>
Aired October 3, 2002 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, again. I'm Aaron Brown.
There are nights when we give our left brain a big workout. Tonight, though, it is more of a right brain program.
The left brain, as the theory goes, is the logical, analytical, rational part. The part we use to sort out the complexities of Iraq or U.N. resolutions, geopolitics, and that. The right brain deals with those things that have no logic, no rhyme or reason. And it is the right brain that hurts tonight; ours, and I expect yours.
We've been dealing with three appalling stories this week, stories that have no logic or none that we can see. We'll end the program tonight in a small town in Nebraska; a town in tears as it buries six friends and neighbors. We'll start with five random murders today in Maryland.
Five people who got up today to get the paper, water the lawn, pick up the mail, shot down. And in the back of our minds we keep drifting back to Milwaukee and this mob of children, as best we can tell, most of whom no one loved very much at all, who beat a man to death over the weekend, some sort of revenge. The youngest there is 10.
The big and important stories we get. We can understand the debate over Iraq; we get the political dispute in New Jersey; both sides of it. We can make no sense out of the string of killings we deal with tonight, except that they make our head hurt and our heart break.
We begin with the shooting deaths in Montgomery County in Maryland. Bob Franken has been on that all day and is with us tonight -- Bob, a headline from you, please.
BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, Montgomery County is a mostly affluent suburb of Washington, D.C., where they have maybe 25 murders in the average year. But in a 16-hour period, they had five: random, senseless, so far no explanation.
BROWN: Bob, thank you. We'll be back with you in a moment.
Also on the program tonight we'll go to Rayne, Louisiana, aptly named tonight, as hurricane Lili came through earlier today. Frank Buckley joins us from there in a little bit.
And news out of the U.N. today of two kinds. Richard Roth joins us tonight with that -- Richard, a headline from you, please.
RICHARD ROTH, CNN SENIOR U.N. CORRESPONDENT: A gunman opens fire outside United Nations headquarters in New York, while inside the Security Council debates weapons inspections in Iraq.
BROWN: Richard, thank you. Back to you and the rest in just a moment.
Also coming up in the program tonight former FBI special agent Clint Van Zandt on who or whom might fit the profile in Maryland in the murder case there. We'll hear from Senator Bill Frist on his challenge to what the Democrats want to do in the New Jersey Senate race. It reached the U.S. Supreme Court today.
Judith Miller of the "New York Times" will join us a year after the first anthrax case. And we'll get her take on Iraq and the weapons Saddam might possess.
And a fascinating look tonight at John Walker Lindh. What he did at an al Qaeda training camp and what Osama bin Laden said to him.
And we'll end it all, as we said, with a special look at a little Nebraska town that is burying its dead a week after a bank robbery that continues to trouble the city.
All of that and more in the hour ahead.
We begin with something that the police chief of Montgomery County Maryland said today: "Our homicide rate has just increased by 25 percent in a single day." Five people just going about their day, one mowing the lawn, another getting gas, still another at a post office.
The small town calm of it all shattered by one, maybe two murderers who are out there somewhere tonight who seem to be skilled at shooting and seemed almost to be killing for sport. Once again, CNN's Bob Franken.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FRANKEN (voice-over): While police say there is no apparent connections between the victims, their killer or killers have been operating in a calculated way. Six shots have been fired at six locations, all within a few miles of each other here in a Maryland suburb of Washington. Five have been killed. Schools let out at their normal times after students were kept inside all day.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's crazy. I mean, you know, I have kids that, you know, go to school around here and it's pretty nuts.
FRANKEN: Police spread out in a massive manhunt.
CHARLES MOOSE, POLICE CHIEF: We feel like we probably have a skilled shooter, and that does heighten our concern.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're also offering a reward of up to $50,000 for information leading to the arrest and indictment of whoever is responsible for this.
FRANKEN: The incidents began Wednesday evening. A single shot crashed through a craft store window. No one was hit. But a half- hour later at a nearby supermarket, another shot rang out. This time a 55-year-old man was killed outside the store.
The shootings resumed in the morning at 7:41. A man cutting his grass in the area was shot dead. Less than a half-hour later a cab driver was filling up his car at a service station. He was shot and killed.
Another half-hour after that a woman was shot dead outside a post office near a retirement home. A little over an hour later another murder. Again, a single shot. This time it took the life of a woman who was simply at a service station vacuuming her van.
JOHN MISTRY, SERVICE STATION CO-OWNER: A couple of ladies come from there and she said, "There is something wrong with this lady." So we went to go, you know, help her to pull her out because the door was on top of her. We couldn't pull her out.
FRANKEN: Police quote some witnesses as saying they may have spotted two people in a vehicle described as a box-type truck with a damaged tailgate. Trucks were being stopped throughout the area.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FRANKEN: School officials say they are going to schedule classes as normal tomorrow, but, Aaron, obviously things are very much not normal in Montgomery County, Maryland.
BROWN: Two things, Bob. The first, just a fact question here. Has more than one witness described the car or the truck or the SUV, whatever it is?
FRANKEN: As a matter of fact, no. Only one witness at one of the incidents, and the police are not sure if that witness saw the actual vehicle or if he saw another vehicle driving away perhaps out of fear because of hearing the shots or something like that. They really have a real absence of many clues this evening.
BROWN: All right. The other one is, I guess, a little bit more frightening or a lot more frightening. I assume here that police have no reason to believe that this is over.
FRANKEN: As a matter of fact, they are very worried about tomorrow morning, because four of the five murders were committed beginning this morning. So their particular concern, their highest degree of tension is going to be starting tomorrow morning.
BROWN: And there's no, best I can deduce here, just trying to remember crimes like this, there's no reason to assume that whatever happens tomorrow, if something happens tomorrow, will happen in Montgomery County, Maryland. It could happen in Richmond, Virginia or Toledo, Ohio. FRANKEN: As a matter of fact, right. The District of Columbia, Washington, which is adjacent to Montgomery County, followed this county's suit and also had the kids stay inside the schools today, no extracurricular activities, that type of thing.
BROWN: Bob, thank you. Bob Franken, who has the tough duty tonight on this one.
About this time last night we were all bracing for the wrath of Lili, to use one of those time-honored hurricane cliches. And I joked at the end of the program to a guest from the National Hurricane Center that we hoped he was wrong about just how bad Lili was looking.
It turns out it's one of those rare times where our hopes came true. The storm weakened so dramatically overnight that forecasters were simply stunned. One saying a lot of PhDs will be written about this.
None of this is to say that Lili didn't cause enormous damage and, in fact, is still causing plenty of problems. Here's CNN's Frank Buckley.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Hurricane Lili let loose on Louisiana, but didn't deliver on its potential to come ashore as a Category 4 hurricane.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm feeling relieved and thankful.
BUCKLEY: But even as a Category 2, it brought 100-mile-an-hour winds and punishing rain. Lili left in its wake damaged homes and businesses, toppled trees and power lines, and a number of tractor trailers on their sides, caught by the hurricane's winds as it roared across the state.
(on camera): Others played it safe, either staying off the roads completely or, like these truckers here along Interstate 10, they parked underneath overpasses to wait out the wind.
(voice-over): No deaths were reported but there were close calls. In Rayne, Louisiana, bricks showered two workers at the water treatment plant. One man was in this car. Another took a direct hit. Neither suffered severe injuries.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was looking down and then like a whole sheet -- one section right here, just completely crashed on top of him. He's lucky, he's very lucky.
BUCKLEY: A sentiment heard across the state as people came out from shelters and looked over the damage. If it had been a Category 4, they all knew it would have been much worse.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, yes. God answered the prayers last night.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BUCKLEY: And we are back live here in Rayne, Louisiana, looking at the bricks that fell on those two men. Again, we should tell you that neither of them suffered serious injuries. Also, I want to tell you, Aaron, that the truck driver and his dog that were in that truck that you saw flipping over in the videotape, both of them were able to walk away from that. Neither of them suffered serious injuries.
Tonight, more than 400,000 people here in Louisiana remain without power. And thousands of people have not been able to return back to their homes -- Aaron.
BROWN: Frank, thank you. Frank Buckley in Rayne, Louisiana, where it looked like the rain had stopped, at least for now.
There were some expected developments at the United Nations today and one scary unexpected development as well. Our U.N. correspondent, Richard Roth, doesn't normally do crime blotter stuff, but today he finds himself covering that beat as well. So we turn to Richard. A little nice to find you safe and sound today.
ROTH: Aaron, everybody at the United Nations was waiting for the end of the Security Council meeting involving Iraq, when suddenly in my office on the fourth floor of the U.N., I heard pop, pop, pop. I looked out, I saw somebody shooting a pistol straight up in the air and then he threw the gun down and started to walk away.
Then he went over to a bag that he had left on the ground there. And you'll see he threw leaflets in the air. He is protesting conditions for the people in North Korea. And then he leaned against that flagpole and basically said, "Come and get me."
Quickly -- some say not that quickly -- State Department Secret Service who happened to be on the grounds for the visit of the president of Cyprus were on him. Held him at gunpoint and then eventually took him away.
Steven Kim is his name. He's a postal worker from Illinois. He has a legal permit to carry a pistol, though they don't know if this is the gun the license is for.
His son says he and his father were in New York two weekends ago, came to the United Nations, stood outside the U.N. didn't go in. His father, the son says, expressed no animosity towards the United Nations and seemed totally normal.
As for what happened with the shots, well, four slugs were found in the United Nations headquarters above the 18th floor. They're still trying to dig them out tonight. Several people are lucky to be alive. They were either not there, they were out sick, or, as someone said, everyone hit the floor.
And that's exactly what happened in the United Nations headquarters. Two of the people were treated for some type of trauma. They were in the World Trade Center area on September 11.
BROWN: And he's been charged with what, do we know? And by who, by the way?
ROTH: He's going to be charged. He's in federal custody, arraigned tomorrow. Dignity protection law violations, and there may be some additional charges.
BROWN: And the U.N. space itself is considered under federal jurisdiction, is that the...
ROTH: International territory. And the U.N. security handles it. And he hopped a fence, and the U.N. security says they need to beef things up. They're waiting for items in the budget.
BROWN: OK. Perhaps not too much longer we hope.
All right. Let's go inside, and there was actually business being done.
ROTH: Well they didn't hear the shots in the Security Council, but they are certainly talking about even more impressive weapons on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program. And Hans Blix, the chief weapons inspector just back from two days of talks in Vienna, came out and told the Security Council members that he's not going to go in mid-October, as he's supposed to depart with his team, or certainly the team is on October 19.
They are going to wait until the Security Council basically decides its political course of action. There's no mandate, there's no agreement among the big five permanent powers. So he is going to wait.
And he also said there were loose ends to tie up. That's the ability of his inspectors to work in the no-fly areas where the U.s. planes patrol. And the rather large loose end of those eight presidential site complexes, more than 1,000 buildings.
BROWN: Then what was the point of this whole song and dance in Vienna over the last couple of days? You negotiate a deal based on resolutions. You say we've got a deal and then you come back and say we're not going to do it.
ROTH: Well, they actually think they made progress there because they got Iraq to say other sites, mosques, government ministries are open. It was the first test of the Security council to see if Iraq would live up to their commitment to cooperate, even if it was just two days of Vienna negotiations.
They never were going to make progress on the presidential sites. The real problem is now the big five: Russia, China, France, Britain and the U.S. have to decide is there going to be one resolution, two? Will the U.S. get to threaten force, that kind of thing.
BROWN: Richard, thank you. Quite a day over there on the east side. Richard Roth, who covers the U.N. for us.
Clearly, there's no guarantee the president will get exactly what he wants from the United Nations. There's also no guarantee he will get what he can live with from the United Nations. That being the case, the administration has some problems; some of them international and some of them domestic, political problems.
The president talked today about building a vast coalition to fight a war with Iraq. Our senior White House correspondent John King tonight on the meaning of both: vast and coalition.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The president faces an uphill fight at the United Nations and is making clear he has a backup plan.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: My intent is to put together a vast coalition of countries who understand the threat of Saddam Hussein.
KING: Administration officials say any U.S.-led coalition would begin with Great Britain, Italy, Australia and most likely Spain. Romania and Bulgaria are offering bases and black seaports. And the White House also counts Poland as an anti-Iraq ally.
Administration sources say Kuwait, Bahrain, Ghana, and Oman would allow use of U.S. bases in those Arab nations, even if they are not publicly supportive of a confrontation with Iraq.
BUSH: Military option is my last choice, not my first. It's my last choice. But Saddam has got to understand, the United Nations must know that the will of this country is strong.
KING: The White House preference is a coalition under the banner of the United Nations. But Russia, China and France remain skeptical of the need for a tough new Security Council resolution before weapons inspectors return to Iraq. The administration insists its private diplomacy is yielding progress.
COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: I'm optimistic that we will find a way forward in the Security Council. We must find a way forward if the Security Council will retain its relevance.
KING: The chief U.N. weapons inspector is due in Washington for talks on Friday. It has been three weeks since President Bush told the United Nations he wanted the Iraq debate settled in days and weeks not months and years.
(on camera): Senior officials say the president wishes the U.N. debate would move more quickly, but is not overly frustrated just yet. As one top aide put it, "Let's see where we are at this point next week."
John King, CNN, the White House.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Ahead on NEWSNIGHT: a year after, are we any closer to knowing who was behind the anthrax attacks? And are we any better prepared to handle another round, should that happen.
Up next, more on the shootings outside of Washington, D.C. We'll talk with profiler Clint Van Zandt. This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: More now on the murders in Maryland and the hunt to find who is responsible. "Baffling" seems to be the best word to describe what happened today in Montgomery County. But that doesn't mean that profilers have nothing to go on.
We're joined again tonight, as we often are on bad days like this, I must say, by former FBI special agent Cliff Van Zandt. He joins us from Washington. It is good to see you, but the circumstances are not.
CLINT VAN ZANDT, FMR. FBI SPECIAL AGENT: Thank you.
BROWN: OK. Let's talk about who it is we're looking for here. This is not a Ted Bundy sort of killer, right?
VAN ZANDT: No. No, not at all. You know Bundy, of course, was a serial killer. And, as you know, you get someone like David Huberty (ph), who was the killer at San Ysidro, California at the McDonald's years ago, who killed 25-plus, that's a mass murderer.
This guy is more like a -- he's a spree killer. He is like an Andrew Cunanan, who killed fashion designer Gianni Versace. These individuals move from one crime to another to another. There's no emotional cooling off period in between.
And, Aaron, I'm afraid this is kind of emotional heroine. These guys like what they're doing.
BROWN: They are doing it, excuse the expression, for fun?
VAN ZANDT: Yes. I think they are doing it for fun. This is like individuals who would out and use a paint gun to shoot people or take a broom and hit people at a bus stop 30 or 40 years ago.
This individual or these two men are out with a high-powered rifle killing people from at least 150 yards away, probably giving each other at least emotional, if not psychological, high-fives when they do something like this.
These are stone-cold antisocial personalities; these are psychopaths; these are killers, and they are capable of continuing to do this.
BROWN: I'm afraid to hear the answer to this. Are they watching tonight in a way and enjoying the fact that we're talking about them?
VAN ZANDT: Absolutely. They're not sitting there shaking and saying, my god, the police have information on us. They are sitting there with their 15 minutes of Andy Warhol fame saying, "Isn't that cool? They're talking about us. The whole world is talking about us and we are so smart that we're evading law enforcement." They enjoy this.
BROWN: Are they young, are they old, or somewhere in between?
VAN ZANDT: Well, you know, again, we have little to know -- eyewitness identification. But this is more of a crime for a younger person than an old. You know if I found out this was somebody 40- years-old plus, I would really be surprised.
This is more of the type of risk-taking, this is the type of immature behavior that we've seen in some of the school shootings around the United States. So this behavior probably is more consistent with the 16 to 17 to 25-year-old range than it would be for 35 to 50-years-old.
BROWN: Is this a person or are these people who started planning this six months ago, or is this somebody who woke up yesterday and said, "Let's go out and kill some people?"
VAN ZANDT: Yes. I think probably in the last 24 or 48 hours, some event, some cataclysmic, as far as they were concerned, incident happened. You and I may just say, gee, that's just one more ounce on a scale of pounds, but that was enough to have them, "Let's go out and level the playing field."
I think when we find this person or these two men, you know they are not going to be rocket scientists, they are not going to be academically, socially or professionally achievers. We're going to find out that society has probably trotted on them. They are blaming the world, and this is the way they are leveling the playing field.
And they are going out like, you know, I might have done as a kid with a BB gun shooting Coke cans. They are out shooting human beings and they don't even realize the damage, the horror and the ripple effect that this has to our entire society. All they care about is themselves.
BROWN: Clint, they don't realize it or they don't care about it?
VAN ZANDT: Well, that's interesting. You make a very good point. Probably more the latter.
Probably that they don't care. And the scary thing is, you know in their mind, once you kill one, once you kill five or six, the criminal justice system isn't going to do anything more to you. So they present a tremendous challenge, not only in repeating this type of activity, but for the men and women of law enforcement that are out stopping these cars and trucks all over the northern Virginia/Maryland area, every time is a potential death sentence for a law enforcement officer.
We don't pay these men and women enough. And yet they are the thin blue line that's trying keep these people, these two individuals away from the rest of us.
BROWN: Quickly, let me try and get a couple more things done in a minute, if I can. VAN ZANDT: Sure.
BROWN: Are they likely to be caught alive?
VAN ZANDT: Probably not. I mean law enforcement would do everything they can, but these individuals, again, they may try to go out in suicide by cop in this final volcanic type of eruption where they create a shootout. They may take their own lives, but law enforcement is going to have to be very careful when they identify them.
And, Aaron, this is a case that absolutely the people watching your program who know about this, somebody in this country knows who these people are or has a suspicion. This case is going to be broken by citizens knowing something and they step up to the plate.
Since September 11 we are our brother's keeper. And in a situation like this, we are too.
BROWN: That was actually my last question. Are they likely to be caught? And I think the answer is, if everybody does what they ought to do in circumstances like this, yes.
Clint, it's good to see you.
VAN ZANDT: Yes.
BROWN: When they're caught -- hopefully they're caught -- we'll talk again and see how it all matches up. We learn each time. Thank you, Clint Van Zandt.
VAN ZANDT: We do.
BROWN: Coming up on NEWSNIGHT: the secrets that John Walker Lindh told investigators. A special CNN report, as NEWSNIGHT continues on a Thursday from New York.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: The chapter is about to end in the strange story of John Walker Lindh, who grew up in California but was captured in an entirely different world, entirely different life in Mazar-e-Sharif in Afghanistan.
John Walker Lindh is scheduled to be sentenced tomorrow in a U.S. District Court in Arlington, Virginia. It's expected he'll go to prison for a term of 20 years and serve most of it.
As part of the plea bargain that allowed Lindh to avoid an even harsher sentence, a sentence of life in prison, he agreed to tell the government what he knows. So what does he know?
CNN's Mike Boettcher tonight has gathered together testimony we have not been allowed to hear until now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) MIKE BOETTCHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): First he was interviewed by CNN.
JOHN WALKER LINDH: I haven't spoken English with native speakers in several months. I've been speaking Arabic.
BOETTCHER: Then John Walker Lindh was questioned by U.S. Special Forces, and then the FBI. Those interrogations were never made public. His attorneys tried to suppress them, saying they were made under duress.
That was before Walker Lindh cut a plea bargain with federal prosecutors. Now CNN has obtained copies of the reports made by the U.S. military and the FBI. Reports that reveal new details about Walker Lindh, what he was doing in Afghanistan, and new information that hints at possible new attacks against America.
John Walker Lindh was among a group of Taliban soldiers that surrendered to the Northern Alliance in late November. They were taken to Mazar-e-Sharif, where Walker Lindh and others were questioned by two CIA employees.
When many of the prisoners staged a revolt, Walker Lindh, who was wounded in the leg, hid out, finally surrendering after a week. That is when the interrogations by Special Forces began.
Walker Lindh told his questioners that he began his journey to Islam after seeing the movie "Malcolm X" when he was 12 years old. That launched an odyssey that took him from being a teenage Muslim convert to northern California, to an Arabic school in Yemen, to Pakistan and finally Afghanistan.
By the summer of 2001, according to interrogation reports, Walker Lindh was at this camp, al-Faruq, run by al Qaeda for a seven-week training course.
WALKER LINDH: I came with the Pakistanis.
BOETTCHER: Walker Lindh was also questioned three times by the FBI over two days. The report says he was advised of his rights each time and waived them. He told them that although he wanted to join the Taliban, he was sent to al-Faruq because the Arab group is Osama bin Laden's, al Qaeda's group. And that was the only way to get to the front lines.
The report continues: "Lindh new UBL's al Qaeda's purpose was to fight Americans." Walker Lindh outlined a training course at the camp that included three weeks of weapons familiarization, one week of topography, maps, one week of battlefield training, one week of explosives.
Walker Lindh told his interrogators that bin Laden visited the camp three to five times while he was there, usually with one of his sons. He said he met bin Laden once for five minutes with other recruits, and that bin Laden made small talk and thanked them all for taking part in the jihad. Walker Lindh told the FBI that the head of all al Qaeda's training camps personally asked him if he would take part in missions against the U.S. and Israel. He said he declined that. He also turned down the chance to swear allegiance to al Qaeda. "Instead," says the report, "he swore allegiance to jihad."
Walker Lindh did not mention any other Americans being at al- Faruq, even though several men from Buffalo would later be arrested and charged with being at the camp at the same time. Walker Lindh was on the frontlines with the Taliban unit when the 9/11 attacks took place. His military questioners say, "Source showed remorse and signs of regret," when he was asked about the attacks.
He told his interrogators that one of his former instructors was there, and told the group that this was the first attack. That a second wave would come at the beginning of Ramadan in mid November and make America forget about the first attack. The instructor also talked of a third wave in early 2002, but provided no details.
While Walker Lindh told his Special Forces interrogators that the second phase of attacks could involve biological weapons or attacks on nuclear weapons facilities, there is a comment from the questioners saying, "Source was making assumptions and conjectures based on talk among his colleagues."
Even before he left the al-Faruq camp, Walker Lindh said one of his instructors told him that bin Laden sent 50 people to carry out 20 suicide operations and that the group believed the attacks were aimed at the U.S. and Israel.
At the end of his questioning by the military, John Walker Lindh shared a final thought about Osama bin Laden's whereabouts. Walker Lindh said families of al Qaeda members had been moved from Afghanistan to Yemen during 2001 and that he thought Osama bin Laden may be planning on moving there.
Mike Boettcher, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: John Walker Lindh sentenced tomorrow.
A few other stories from around the country making news today, beginning with the labor dispute that has shut down ports on the West Coast, causing trouble all over the country.
Federal mediators met with longshoremen and port employers today, trying to end the lockout by management. Talks came as there was more pressure on both sides to reach a settlement from politicians, including California Senator Barbara Boxer. The cost of the shutdown is estimated at $1 billion dollars a day.
A rough week, it seems, for Martha Stewart. She resigned today from the board of directors of the New York Stock Exchange. Yesterday an assistant to Ms. Stewart's stock broker pleaded guilty of taking money to keep quiet about a stock sale last year of her friend's company, ImClone, just before the shares in that company plummeted.
And the father of Gwyneth Paltrow has died. That line doesn't do justice to Bruce Paltrow, who was quite a force in the entertainment business in his own right, a producer and a director in film and in TV. Probably best known for the series "St. Elsewhere" and "The White Shadow." Mr. Paltrow died of pneumonia and recurrent cancer. He was just 58.
Still to come on NEWSNIGHT: the town is still struggling with the effects of a crime that took but 40 seconds to commit.
And up next: the ballot battle in New Jersey. It makes its way to the U.S. Supreme Court.
This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: An urgent last-minute appeal to the United States Supreme Court is not something you fax or FedEx; you have it hand-delivered, which is exactly what the Republican Party did today in its bid to get the nation's high court to review the decision of the New Jersey Supreme Court that allows the Democratic Party to replace Robert Torricelli, the candidate who dropped out of the senatorial race, with Frank Lautenberg, who is supposed to step in.
Got it?
The man who made that delivery was Republican Senator Bill Frist of Tennessee, who happens, also, to be a physician. Perhaps his colleagues thought he'd best be able to deal with the severe aches and pains this is bound to cause.
We spoke with the senator earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Senator, I read a quote of yours where you accused the Democrats of trying steal the election. I just want to make sure that's the word you want to use here.
SEN. BILL FRIST (R), TENNESSEE: That's a pretty good word, because what they're doing is ethically and legally, I believe, reprehensible.
BROWN: If, in fact, you believe that they're trying to steal the election, then you must also believe, don't you, that the New Jersey Supreme Court is complicit in that theft, because the court voted unanimously to make the ballot change.
FRIST: What we have done today is filed with the United States Supreme Court a stay of action which, indeed, would overturn what the court did yesterday.
We're basing this suit on Article 1, section 4 of the Constitution. It's a constitutional issue, and that's why it's at the Supreme Court, which is the elections clause clearly says that it's up to the state legislatures to determine time, manner and place of federal elections, not -- not -- supreme courts of states.
And that's why we've taken this to the federal Supreme Court.
BROWN: Well, what the New Jersey court -- which, as you know, has both Democrats and Republicans on it -- what the New Jersey court said is that the law in New Jersey does not specifically prohibit this change of candidates within the 51 days. And that was the basis of the ruling.
FRIST: I'm not sure that's what they said.
They said they felt -- they felt -- and, again, they didn't rewrite the election law, but they did, in effect -- that they felt it was in the public issue -- in the public interest to give choice.
Indeed, we would argue that under New Jersey statute, which is crystal clear -- crystal clear -- that within 51 days you can't be switching people in and out of the election process, taking them off of the ballot.
Now, if they die -- I agree Torricelli is maybe politically dead -- but he is not physically dead.
We can have chaos in elections all over the country if we're going to allow 20 days out, 30 days out, 40 days out just because somebody is losing to drop out and pull somebody in like it's a relay race.
And remember -- I think this is important, because I think we're setting a terrible precedent for election -- federal elections all over the country if we allow this entry and this exit at any point in time. And people are outraged about that.
BROWN: On the -- a couple more things. On the question of precedent here, are you at all concerned? Do you have any concern at all that, for the second time in two election cycles, an important political question is going to be decided by the courts, and how that might reflect on the standing of the courts as above the political fray?
FRIST: Well, our goal, really on behalf of the people of New Jersey, is to make sure that the laws of New Jersey, the federal election laws passed by their state legislature, and according to the Constitution of the United States, what governs our elections, are upheld. And we contend that it is illegal and, thus, I believe outrageous, the fact that a state supreme court can come in and, against what the state legislature -- which, according to the Constitution, decides what they have determined is their election law.
And if we repeatedly are going to have election laws just thrown out the window and not contested, it sets a dangerous precedent for every federal election that is coming along the line. And that precedent we simply cannot tolerate. We can simply not lie over and say, we're going to let the courts come in and overturn what the Constitution intended.
BROWN: I understand that. And respectfully, let me ask the question again, if I may. Do you have any concern that, once again, the courts, as they were in the Florida case, the Supreme Court is being asked to settle an important political question; in this case, a question that might ultimately determine which party controls the Senate?
FRIST: You know, that's why we're taking it to the Supreme Court. I don't think that the state courts -- and again, I'm trying to answer your question directly -- I don't think the state supreme courts -- and, indeed, it was decided in the Florida election as well, that the state supreme court can overrule what the legislative body has both written in statute and the intent of that law.
And that's why it does go to the United States Supreme Court to make that decision. What does the Constitution say?
And I think -- if it weren't a constitutional issue we wouldn't be pursuing this. We're going straight to the United States Supreme Court to decide that very question.
Do I care, or do I think it should influence what the Supreme Court does or decides based on what happened in Florida? You know, not really. What I think is important is to uphold the law of the land in New Jersey.
And that's what the people of New Jersey want. They are sick and tired. And this is about as straight as I can say it: The people of New Jersey are sick and tired for their political figures, or this gaming of -- for partisan reasons -- this gaming of the election process for partisan advantage.
Senator Torricelli, with all respect to him, basically, as he said, I'm going to pull my name off the ballot, regardless of what the law says. There's a sense of arrogance about that, saying he's doing it for partisan reasons. He said, I'm losing; I'm losing, and that's the only reason. It's not because I've done anything wrong.
And what about if we have candidates all over the country up for federal election 30 days out basically say, I am losing. Regardless of what the federal election laws, I'm getting out and bringing somebody else in. Chaos, confusion and ultimately an erosion of the democratic process.
BROWN: Senator, it's good to talk to you. I know your time is scarce today. We appreciate some of it. Thank you very much.
FRIST: Good to be with you. Thank you, Aaron.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Senator Frist earlier today.
The court has the case. No guarantee the court will accept the case. We should know that in a couple of days. Later on NEWSNIGHT: the toughest job in Washington, trying to create a national monument.
Up next, we go to a small Nebraska town where things just haven't been the same since just before 9:00 a.m. a week ago Thursday.
This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: A simple sentence: "It can't happen here." How often have you heard those words? They are not words spoken by the residents of a New York or a Los Angeles, not Chicago or even Des Moines because people there know it -- whatever "it" is -- can happen there, and probably has.
It is a sentence spoken by people who live in places like Blue Earth or War Road, Union, or Bent, places where locking the door is something you do only if you're leaving the town for a while, and Main Street is often the only street.
"It can't happen here" is being heard these days in Norfolk, Nebraska.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(voice-over): There are no good days for a funeral, but the unexpected cold and rain made this one, the sixth here in just the past three days, seem especially sad.
KENT WARNEKE, EDITOR, "NORFOLK DAILY NEWS": Well, to have six funerals within the span of three days, all related to the same incident, it's overwhelming emotionally. And that's just for the people who don't necessarily have the strongest, even, connection to the victims.
BROWN: All of the deaths in this normally placid corner of northeast Nebraska stemmed from a single, horrible bank robbery. The most violent bank robbery in the United States in more than a decade; killings that left everyone here, residents and police, stunned.
BILL MIZNER, CHIEF OF POLICE: I've lived here for 40 years. It's just a really great place to live, to raise kids and that kind of thing just doesn't happen here.
UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: For us, and I think for maybe anyplace in the country, to have had this happen, where three individuals walk into a bank and end up killing five people, that just is unbelievable.
BROWN: By the time police arrived at the small branch office of U.S. Bank, four bank employees were dead, so was one customer.
The suspect, who authorities say had been in and out of trouble with the law for years, did not take a single penny. According to police, one watched, the others went inside. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The surveillance tapes the bank used show that the three other suspects came in and, almost immediately after entering the bank, split up. One went to an office. Another one went to a different office at the other side of the facility. Another went to the front counter. And they almost immediately began shooting.
BROWN: Those surveillance tapes have yet to be shown publicly. But those who saw them say the entire incident, from start to finish, takes but 40 seconds.
MIKE BARKS, NORFOLK RESIDENT: It's incomprehensible to think that happens in Norfolk, Nebraska. That stuff happens in L.A. or New York or some other big town. It doesn't happen in Norfolk.
BROWN: Since the killings, this town has been described in terms that are almost quaint: a small town dependent on corn and cattle for its economic well-being. And that is true to a point.
But Norfolk is the financial and retail hub for a third of the state of Nebraska, and some people here say they think nothing of carrying around large amounts of cash.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I never lock my doors, never lock my pickup. I usually have thousands of dollars sitting in the back of my pickup.
BROWN: For many, the sixth victim of the robbery is the most perplexing. Nebraska state trooper Mark Zack killed himself the day after the bank robbery. It seemed that he stopped one of the suspects a week before, a routine traffic stop, and that he failed to notice a gun the man was carrying had been stolen.
The trooper confiscated the gun, but let the man go.
LYLE WEYRICH, MARK ZACH'S FATHER-IN-LAW: Everyone that knew Mark had a fond memory that they could grab. And I would like the community, if they knew Mark, to think of their favorite moment with Mark and maybe walk around this area with a smile on their face.
And I hope that with a smile, and with love, we'll all get through this.
BROWN: There is a lot to get through in town these days, and few good reasons to smile.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Still ahead tonight on NEWSNIGHT, the toughest part of being an artist: trying please everyone.
A short break, then we're back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Finally from us tonight -- the greatest generation etched in stone. It will be quite awhile before we get to the point of an actual memorial -- not the redevelopment plans but a memorial for 9/11. And you can bet when we get there it will be a long and heated debate on what's the best way to do it.
This is the story about one artist helping to remember another war who's had to deal with a lot of competing interests and visions. And who's now well on his way to carving out, in a striking way, such an important part of history.
Here's CNN's Bruce Morton.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRUCE MORTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Raymond Kaskey did this justice. The original's on a Virginia courthouse. This sculpture at Washington's Police Memorial. Now he's involved in something much bigger. He's going to be on the Mall.
RAYMOND KASKEY, SCULPTOR: It doesn't get any more special than that. I mean, there's Daniel Chester French's Lincoln at one end and there Henry Shrady's Grant at the other end. And nothing in between in terms of sculpture.
MORTON: Kaskey is doing 24 barleys -- 22 inches high, 64 inches wide -- which will fit inside (UNINTELLIGIBLE) part of the World War II memorial. But how did you tell about World War II in 24 scenes?
KASKEY: And then to pick 12 that represented the Atlantic Front and 12 that represented the Pacific Front was about two years work of boiling things down.
MORTON: You wouldn't believe how many had to approve each design.
KASKEY: And there is the client committee which is American Battle Monuments Commission, the National Capitol Planning Commission, the Fine Arts Commission, the General Services Administration and anybody else who happens to be in the room at the time with suggestions. Some of them silly and sometimes good.
MORTON: Kaskey -- he has three assistants with him now -- has been at this for more than two years. What's been approved -- this could change, of course -- is 24 story boards with the basic ideas.
Some specific events. This is D-Day. This U.S. and Soviet soldiers meeting at the Elbe River. And some generic. Americans getting drafted. Women working on an airplane. Women joined the workforce in droves. The nickname was Rosie the Riveter. A graves squad. And Americans being happy on V-J Day.
Anything of the finished stuff in plaster been approved yet?
KASKEY: I don't know whether this was ambiguous at the last meeting. I think this has been approved. At any rate it's cast.
MORTON: He's had some rejections. Political correctness counts -- few cigarettes here thought millions smoked back then. No atom bomb. These sculptures matter because they are the only people the memorial will show. Kaskey and his team are working on some of the other stuff too -- service seals, arches and so on. But the people, he thinks, are special.
KASKEY: I just sort of identify with that period in history, and my father in the war as a tail gunner in a V-17 which is one of the panels that I'm doing. So I feel invested in that personally through my family.
MORTON: And, again, these are the only people the memorial will show. The only faces of the greatest generation.
KASKEY: Yes. It's the only sort of representative sculpture or realistic sculpture. And I think people will look hard at them.
MORTON: Bruce Morton, CNN, Brentwood, Maryland.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: That's our report for tonight. Tough day. Back again tomorrow at 10:00. "AMERICAN MORNING" 7:00 a.m. Eastern.
Until we see you, good night from all of us at NEWSNIGHT.
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Behind Five Murders; Gunman Fires Shots at U.N. Building>
