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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown

Witnesses at Latest Shooting Provide More help than Before to Police; Pentagon Clears Way to Aid in Sniper's Capture

Aired October 15, 2002 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


AARON BROWN, HOST: And good evening, again, everyone.
Late this afternoon, while writing the daily e-mail to viewers, I got angry. It wasn't just the sniper and the terror he's causing, though that's part of it. It is something more simple and it's sad. Nine people have died and few of us know their names or anything about their lives.

Some day when this killer is caught everyone will know his name. We'll know and, I suspect, remember every little detail of his life, what set this madness off. All of it. We won't remember the name Linda Franklin, the woman he murdered last night. We'll tell you more about her a little later in the program. She deserves that.

And here are some of the other lives we shouldn't forget so quickly. There was Jim Martin. Remember his name. He was the first to die.

And Sonny Buchanan. Sonny Buchanan was deeply involved helping troubled kids. He was an amateur poet. His fiancee read his Valentine's Day poem at his funeral.

The family of Prem Walekar recognized his cab when it came on the news, decorated as it was with American flags. His dream was simple, perhaps like yours. He wanted to see his daughter finish college. When he did, he planned to retire and, in his case, go back to India.

Dean Meyers' brother also saw the crime scene on the news and didn't realize it was Dean who had been murdered. A Vietnam vet and the kind of uncle who never forgot his birthday, the brother said.

Ken Bridges had six kids, worked in economic development for African-Americans. One friend said this of him: "If you were angry and you ran into Kenny, you might as well forget about being angry. Kenny could fix it."

And Sarah Ramos was described as someone who just radiated love. Her 7-year-old asked this of Sara's sister, "Can I call you Mama now?"

Jim and Sonny, Prem, Dean, Kenny and Sara, not names, but people. Not statistics, not a number. This killer hasn't killed nine, he has killed one person again and again and shattered an untold number of lives. And if for just for a moment we think of them as the individuals they were, we can mourn them. On to "The Whip" and what may be, we emphasize may be a major development in this investigation. Ed Lavandera leads our coverage tonight from Falls Church, Virginia. Ed, a headline from you tonight.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, we're back at the Home Depot in Falls Church, Virginia, where we were last night. And we have better indication of just what was happening behind me in the parking lot that you see behind me, as witnesses have been coming forward, perhaps helping out investigators more so than they've been able to get helped out so far at this point -- Aaron.

BROWN: Ed, thank you.

On to Montgomery County, Maryland. A broader look at the investigation, which has a number of angles to it. Tonight, Wolf Blitzer, has been there all day. So, Wolf, a headline from you tonight.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: One of the things that's happened, Aaron, is that the FBI, local law enforcement, they are asking for some big guns; namely, the Pentagon's help. And the Pentagon is saying, that's fine, we're ready to help. We'll have details -- Aaron.

BROWN: Wolf, thank you.

The latest victim of the sniper, the one last night, Linda Franklin. Who was she beyond the name? Bob Franken has spent the day reporting on that. So, Bob, a headline from you tonight.

BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, the killer who treats his victims like figures in a video game has once again shattered those who loved the very real human being he decided to eliminate. We'll have the story of another precious life lost.

BROWN: Bob, thank you. Back with all of you shortly.

Also coming up in the hour ahead: the sniper case and the politics of gun control. We'll look at how that is playing out in the race for the governor of Maryland, where one of the candidates knows the impact of gun violence better than most and she's not afraid to say it. Kathleen Kennedy Townsend on that and more coming up in the hour ahead.

We begin with the first word that police might now have a description of the sniper. Not just a description of the van, but a person to go with it. It is hard to overestimate how important this might be. We've long believed that somewhere somebody knows something.

Somebody has seen something and might not even realize what they have seen until someone draws them a picture. We are not there yet. But we do seem to be getting closer. We're also 24 hours into the latest murder investigation.

Twenty-four hours at the latest crime scene for CNN's Ed Lavandera, who joins us from northern Virginia. Ed, good evening again.

LAVANDERA: Good evening, Aaron.

Well, law enforcement sources tell CNN that three witnesses have reported seeing an olive or dark-skinned male at at least two of the sniper shootings, including the Home Depot behind me. That was last night's shooting.

Of course this is the kind of break that investigators have been hoping for. Perhaps the first step in bringing them toward catching the sniper.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LAVANDERA (voice-over): When the sound of a single rifle shot echoed through the Home Depot parking lot, witnesses say everyone knew instantly what happened. Perhaps that's why investigators are saying they have a good number of strong witnesses, something they haven't had in the other sniper killings.

CHIEF TOM MANGER, FAIRFAX COUNTY, VA. POLICE DEPT.: There was some additional information that we were able to get from last night's case, and I am confident that ultimately that information is going to lead us to an arrest in this case.

LAVANDERA: The Home Depot parking lot appears well protected. Concrete walls and a restaurant building blocked the view through the sides of the two-story parking structure. The best view of where Linda Franklin was murdered is from across Route 50.

Sources tell CNN it's believed the suspect's vehicle left the scene driving east on Route 50 toward downtown Washington, then made a U-turn and disappeared on to the 495 Beltway. Despite surveillance helicopters and roadblocks, where every vehicle was stopped, the sniper got away again.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are a fair number of ways to leave that area. We had officers in the area as quickly as we could in an attempt to get any information we could about folks that were in that area.

LAVANDERA: Witnesses at this scene describe seeing a light colored Chevy Astro van, like this one, with a ladder rack and the left rear tail light out. But at task force headquarters in Montgomery County, Maryland, investigators also released composite images, a van seen at the Exxon gas station shooting in Fredericksburg, Virginia last Friday.

Authorities are looking for one vehicle, but witnesses had different takes on what that van looked like. It's evident authorities have found some of the most useful witnesses since the sniper killings started, but despite this, there's still not enough to release a sketch of a suspect.

CHIEF CHARLES MOOSE, MONTGOMERY COUNTY, MD. POLICE DEPT.: If we have information that we feel needs to be in the public arena, would be helpful in the case, we will present that information.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LAVANDERA: Aaron, one other piece of evidence that investigators are working with is a partial license plate information they have been able to gather from several witnesses at this scene. But it still hasn't been enough to be released at this point, as we understand it, and it's also the first time that they have publicly said that they have that type of information to go on -- Aaron.

BROWN: Well, in fact, as late as last night, or perhaps early this morning, we lose track, they did not know they had a license tag to work with. So that is at least new as of this day. Two quick things. Are the witnesses -- do these witnesses -- are they consistent in their description of this suspect, for lack of another word?

LAVANDERA: Well, the information that we've been getting is that it's either olive or dark-skinned. And perhaps that's depending on just what kind of version those three witnesses have been able to coming up with at this point. So I think that's why they are trying to leave perhaps a little bit of leeway there in that description.

BROWN: And do we know the circumstances under which the witnesses saw or believe they saw this person? Did anyone see the shooting? Was this part of someone getting away? Do we know any of that?

LAVANDERA: That much information we haven't been able to gather at this point. If you remember, Aaron, last night when we were here reporting from the scene, many of those witnesses were quickly whisked away from the scene. And, in several cases, we saw several witnesses being put in police cars and taken away from the scene. And as we tried to approach them we were told to back away in some situations.

BROWN: We understand. Ed, thank you. Ed Lavandera in Falls Church, Virginia in northern Virginia.

Getting back to this question of eyewitness testimony for a moment, there's no question it helps police and prosecutors. It is badly needed in this case. But a couple of things need to be said as well about its limitations.

Here's CNN's Jeanne Meserve.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I saw her on the floor laying down and she covered, and her car behind her with the stuff from Home Depot.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We went outside and offered to help because we're in the medical profession. And the police said there's nothing left to do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We saw them go after a guy in a van that was parked out across the street. JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In this investigation, eyewitnesses are as valuable as gold. And the shooting in a crowded parking lot provided a wealth of them.

MICHAEL BOUCHARD, ATF: Witnesses are becoming more aware of what's going on and we're getting more information each time.

MESERVE: Witnesses Monday night have provided vehicle descriptions, partial license plate numbers. And according to law enforcement sources, are working with officials to come up with a composite drawing of a dark-skinned man or men. Eyewitness testimony from earlier sniper slayings resulted in graphics of a white box truck and two white vans.

MOOSE: We'd like to be real clear, sir, that they are composites. That when you deal with victims, that we don't all see the world the same.

MESERVE: And that is just one of the limitations of eyewitness testimony. Some studies have shown that high levels of stress can impair a witness' memory. That when a weapon is used, witnesses focus on the weapon, rather than the shooter. And that there is little or no correlation between a witness' confidence in their memory and the accuracy of the memory.

Investigators in this case acknowledge different people have different powers of observation.

GARY BALD, FBI: Typically, when you conduct an investigation and you receive information from a witness you not only just take their information, but you evaluate how strong their information is, how reliable the information is.

MESERVE (on camera): It helps that in the Falls Church shooting there are several people to talk to. In the words of one law enforcement official, "One person may not see what another person does, but if you have enough stories you can put together a pretty accurate picture."

Jeanne Meserve, CNN, Montgomery County, Maryland.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: We were struck last night by pictures of the capital Beltway. We imagine you were too. And the rest of the major highways in the area just moments after the shooting, really. Police shut them down hoping to snare the killer in a massive traffic jam going car to car, taking down license plates and driver's license numbers. This is just one of a number of novel strategies that's being tried.

More are being considered tonight, including an extraordinary one, the use of military technology and military personnel. For a look at that and other broader investigative developments in the case, we go back to Montgomery County and CNN's Wolf Blitzer, who has been reporting this all day.

Wolf, good evening again.

BLITZER: Good evening, Aaron.

It is pretty amazing. They've asked the Pentagon for some help and tonight the Defense Secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, has signed off on that. He's ready to provide some high-technology expertise, some equipment to help in this investigation. The FBI would very much like to see, for example, some reconnaissance photography, some satellite imagery of all of the scenes of these various shootings. They are going to get that.

They want to see if there are some discrepancies. Very significant development, the use of this new high technology, and the Pentagon having to get permission to do it under the so-called posse comitatus law, which prevents the military from getting involved in law enforcement in the United States. But that was overruled; that was signed by the defense secretary earlier, and that will now happen.

I want to bring in Michael Weisskopf from "TIME" magazine, our sister publication. He's been doing some extensive reporting on all of this.

Some of this new technology, Michael, as you reported, includes what we used to call in the old days some "Star Wars" technology. Tell us about that.

MICHAEL WEISSKOPF, SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, "TIME": It involves, Wolf, re-creating the shooting scene by using three dimensional computer imaging. The idea is to create a likeness almost identical to where the shooter may have been, move the shooter around and allow eyewitnesses to take a look, in the hope that their memories will be jogged and the hope that they'll remember that in their subconscious that the guy had a mustache or that he had a limp or a white hat.

BLITZER: I know that the Pentagon does help on occasion, of course, in the drug war, when there were riots in Los Angeles, elsewhere. National Guard troops, of course, were brought out. But what we're seeing right now, at least in my recollection, Michael, correct me if I'm wrong, is pretty extraordinary.

WEISSKOPF: Yes, and it's really not a surprising development, considering -- especially from the Pentagon, considering how far advanced we've gone in warfare. The idea of air war without suffering casualties on the ground. You'd expect this kind of satellite treatment to be applied as well to crime detection.

BLITZER: Another role the Pentagon's playing, the local law enforcement, the FBI, they want to know if some snipers were trained in the Army, the Air Force, the Marine Corps, the Navy, that may have been discharged and may have had some grudge. Tell us about that, because I know you've done some reporting on that as well.

WEISSKOPF: There have been some developments even today on that, Wolf. The Pentagon asked by federal law enforcers to look through the records of old sniper schools for people discharged potentially with misconduct or bad behavior. It has focused up to now on the Army and the Marines. But that shifted today to the Navy and to the Air Force. So they're quite serious and think that this is a significant lead.

BLITZER: The whole business, though, of the FBI analyst who was killed last night, as far as you can tell and all of our reporting can tell, this was purely coincidental, a tragic coincidence. There's no indication whatsoever that this woman was targeted.

WEISSKOPF: That's right. These are real crimes of opportunity. This sniper or snipers finds a location that has little to do with the victim himself. He just seems to pick one out like ducks in a barrel.

BLITZER: Michael Weisskopf of "TIME" magazine, thanks for your good reporting.

And here in Montgomery County, the police chief, Charles Moose, the ATF agent, other FBI agents, they all went out of their way to make the point that Linda Franklin, the woman tragically killed last night, was not involved at all in this investigation.

Aaron, back to you.

BROWN: Wolf, one quick thing before we let you get away here. Just, maybe you heard Michael more clearly than I. He talked about investigators looking at people in the Army and the Marines who may have had some issue and were discharged or whatever. And then he said and now they are focusing on the Air Force and Navy. And he said this is significant development.

Can you tell me the significance of it? Do they believe that the Navy or the Air Force has something here?

BLITZER: Well, they think that all four branches of the military, they have snipers, they have various trained marksmen who go about and learn how to do this. But they were going first with the Marine Corps and the Army, and now they're even checking the Air Force and the Navy, which may not have as many as the Army or as the Marine Corps. So it's significant that all four branches of the military are being brought in to see if they can find somebody who may have a grudge, somebody who may have been discharged for bad conduct and may want to go out and do these crazy horrible things.

BROWN: It is an odd bookend in your reporting tonight that we begin on how the military might be called upon to help solve this. And we end talking about the possibility -- and it is only that -- that someone in the military or who was in the military might be responsible. Wolf, we'll check back with you before we leave, before the program ends tonight and recap where we are. Thank you for your work today.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, more on the sniper investigation. A lot more, in fact. We'll talk with a profiling expert. We'll also have more on the victim of last night's attack, Linda Franklin. A long way to go yet tonight.

This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Linda Franklin now, her life not her death. In a way she was embarking on a new life when the sniper struck her last night. It's never easy watching stories like this one about what was, what might have been and won't be anymore. Sometimes we think it's the toughest thing we do. But in other ways, it is the best we can do.

Here's CNN's Bob Franken.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FRANKEN (voice-over): Linda Franklin lived her life in quiet anonymity, a 47-year-old mother of two adult children. But her life was taken in the unspeakable incomprehensible way that has traumatized the area and once again left a family in agony.

BILL MURRAY, FAMILY SPOKESMAN: The Franklin family is devastated by this tragic event. Linda's family is shocked by the senseless loss of life.

FRANKEN: Her death was laden with tragic irony. Linda Franklin had survived a tough battle with cancer and she worked for the FBI. An intelligence analyst for the infrastructure protection center. Sources say, however, there is no indication her killer knew that.

Federal Bureau of Investigation officials joined family and friends throughout the day, trying to offer comfort to her adult children and her husband Chad, a civilian computer engineer, who was by her side when she was shot down.

FBI Director Robert Mueller called Linda Franklin a dedicated employee whose death has left her colleagues deeply shocked and angry. The Franklins were planning to move from their condominium this Friday, and it was widely believed that the preparations made the fateful trip to the Home Depot necessary.

She was looking ahead after a double mastectomy and was she was still undergoing physical therapy in her battle against cancer.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FRANKEN: And after all that, her life was suddenly snuffed out very quickly. The death made more unbearable by the question her family and the community continues to ask: Why?

BROWN: Yes, it's the question we all ask, isn't it? Why? Why any of this? Why so much of this? And I suppose, when will it end?

Bob, thank you. Bob Franken in our Washington bureau tonight.

We're also joined tonight from Washington by Jeff Beatty, He is the president, Jeff is, of totalsecurity.us. Before that, he worked for the FBI, the CIA and the Delta Force. Jeff gets around and it's good to see him again.

Could this be terrorist with a capital "T"?

JEFF BEATTY, TOTAL SECURITY.US: Well, it could be. You know, we certainly have not been wanting for speculation on what it might be, who might be behind it, et cetera. And I'd be reluctant to do anything except say, yes, it could be.

BROWN: I don't want to play speculation games or any games for that matter. Is there anything in what we've seen, what we know, that either argues that it is or is not?

BEATTY: Well, Aaron, I think that we certainly should recognize that there's been quite a level of sophistication in these attacks. We had a very good report earlier this evening from Ed Lavandera over at the Home Depot site from last night. One of the things that was in Ed's report is that this individual apparently took advantage of a terrain obstacle between where he fired his shot from and where the victim was.

Now we've seen other evidence of that in previous shootings. That he's trying to make sure pursuit is hampered by the planning of his operation. And I think that we have to look at it and say these operations have been well planned.

This is probably not the first time he's been to each one of these sites, when the shooting occurred, but he's rather probably conducted a casing in rehearsal. And it's time that we stop kind of being victimized and sitting there waiting for the next strike and kind of use his own tactics against him. And there is a way that we can do that.

BROWN: Well, OK. You asked the question, now you get to answer the question. And what should we then do?

BEATTY: I think that it's time that we look at each other and say do we have a neighborhood watch program in our neighborhood? What are we doing? If you are a business, your cameras are currently oriented on your parking lot. They should be oriented out there on areas 40 yards to 150 yards away, across a terrain obstacle in some case, where this individual has conducted his attacks from.

If this whole region -- if you are sitting at home in the Washington area tonight and you don't have a neighborhood watch program in your neighborhood, I challenge you to get one by this time tomorrow. You should be on the phone with your neighbors.

BROWN: I'm sorry. Just everyone on the planet may know exactly what this means besides me. Terrain obstacle means what?

BEATTY: Forgive me. For example, something like a median on a highway, across an interstate highway. Something that would make it very difficult for a police officer in car or anybody else, for that matter, to rapidly pursue or even get a good look at the shooter.

BROWN: Is it -- do you have a view on how the various police agencies or the task force have handled information in terms of their objective, which is catching this person? BEATTY: I think that one of the things we have to credit this whole effort with has been a terrific involvement of the public up until this point. But the involvement has been reactive. We've been asking for people to call in with tips on things that they've seen.

I think that they should continue to employ the public. After all, the public is half of public safety. And try to go on the -- not really the offensive, but be more proactive. Be aware of what's going on in your neighborhood. If you have an unused video camera that's in the house, I know civil libertarians are going to be calling up and complaining about this, but, Aaron, to me we are in the equivalent in these neighborhoods of the homeland security advisory system Code Red now.

These neighborhoods are threatened. And under Code Red, on a national level, we do such things as increase our surveillance, limit our routes. And be more aware. It's time that we start doing that proactively in our neighborhoods.

BROWN: In 10 seconds or less, do you think they're going to get this guy?

BEATTY: Yes, I do. I believe they will.

BROWN: And you think they'll get him because they're lucky because he messes up or because they've been really good?

BEATTY: I think they'll get him because the public will help, there will be good police work involved. And every time he strikes, it's another operational act and the time will run out on him.

BROWN: Jeff, thanks. Good to talk to you again -- Jeff Beatty. I guess from where we sit, it doesn't matter whether they are lucky, good or whatever. Just end it.

Coming up on NEWSNIGHT: more on possible profiles of the sniper. More on the shootings as well.

This is NEWSNIGHT from New York.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: I think it's safe to say when it comes to the sniper everyone has become an armchair profiler by now. Just try this experiment: try not to wonder about what drives the killer, try not to solve the puzzle.

It says something, we think, throughout all of this. The top movie at the box office remains "Red Dragon," a movie about a homicidal maniac and the profiler who catches him. Human nature is a powerful thing.

So with that as a backdrop, we're joined by Robert Ressler. He's a former special agent to the FBI. Currently president of Forensic Behavioral Services, Inc. He joins us from Santa Rosa Beach in Florida. Mr. Ressler, nice to have you with us tonight.

ROBERT RESSLER, FMR. FBI SPECIAL AGENT: Good evening.

BROWN: Thank you. A couple -- I wonder if I can run down some things quickly and you give me your impressions. Are we looking, do you believe, for one person or more than one person?

RESSLER: I really believe that we're looking for more than one person; two in particular. These types of things that occur, I mean they've happened before. It's not the first time we've seen this type of thing.

But essentially when you're dealing with one single individual, they tend to be more mentally disordered, either psychotic or borderline psychotic. When you have two individuals, they tend to be more of your psychopathic variety. They tend to be people that are better planned, more premeditated, and there's a great deal of planning and premeditation in their crimes.

That's what it seems like we have here, because, in fact, they are getting away with it fairly successfully.

BROWN: I gather that you would agree with -- I don't know if you heard Jeff -- but, Jeff Beatty, a moment ago, who said he believes at least there is some rehearsal or casing of each location before the incident.

RESSLER: I believe that, yes. The way these things are going down would indicate, again, from the personality, people that would get into this type of conspiratorial behavior that they would plan, premeditate, that they would case and surveil, make a dry run on a location and then, of course, effect their crime. With two people it would be a lot easier because one could drive the vehicle.

The other could set up in the back with the weapon. One could act as actually a spotter for a...

(CROSSTALK)

RESSLER: ... shooter and of course, once the shot is fired, there would be very little delay. The driver would already be moving his vehicle out of the area, and I think they are doing some subtefuge too, I think locating near thorough fairs, near interstates might just be a subterfuge from this fact that they're not using those avenues, that they're actually getting off onto back roads, back streets and therefore alluding police apprehension.

BROWN: Again, quickly if you can, that would be someone who, it would seem to me at least, is someone who is familiar with the area, lives in the area. Would you expect that this person or persons is a resident of suburban Washington, D.C.?

RESSLER: Again, I would believe that.

BROWN: OK. RESSLER: These people definitely have a knowledge of the area. They're not strangers. They haven't come from across the country to do this particular deed. There is no particular political motivation here that's identifiable. This is what I call a personal cause type crime. You have people that have -- are venting their hostility and their aggression against society for their own particular reasons.

BROWN: Well that goes to my next question in a sense. What is it they want here? What are they -- what are they trying, as silly as this may sound, trying to accomplish here? they want a piece of history?

RESSLER: Well only they know exactly what they want. But, from the standpoint of researching this sort of thing over many years, studying many crimes, interviewing many similar type people in prisons, generally speaking these are people that have -- they're losers. They have seen a series of disappointments in their lifetime. They are up against the wall. They probably lost their job.

They probably lost their relationship with a significant other. They may be financially stressed. Normal people can cope with these types of events, but these individuals see no light at the end of the tunnel. And if you get two people like this in conspiracy, with a death wish and possibly suicidal, they may be desiring to go out in a blaze of glory, placing themselves into the history books. Believe me, infamy is very attractive to distorted people.

BROWN: Probably less than a minute. Do you think they've been planning this for six months, 30 days, or two weeks?

RESSLER: I don't think it's a long-term planning. I think the frustration that these people felt has been going on for a considerable time and I think that they've probably come together and decided to do this sort of thing. Their days are numbered because they're escalating their shootings, and they're trying play cat and mouse. They're trying to stay one ahead in front of law enforcement. But bringing in the military, the federal forces, these people are going to be caught.

BROWN: Mr. Ressler, we hope you're right. Nice to meet you, a terrific job tonight. Thank you very much. Robert Ressler, down in down in Florida, outside of Destin, Florida. With us tonight.

We want to focus for a minute or for a few moments on what can be learned from the bullets that have been fired, what investigators see when they look at the slugs that they found at the scene or that they've recovered from the victims.

We're joined from Atlanta tonight by CNN's law enforcement analyst Michael Brooks. Michael, good evening.

MIKE BROOKS, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Good evening, Aaron.

BROWN: Go ahead and set us off here.

BROOKS: Well (UNITELLIGIBLE) there's been a lot of talk about what kind of weapon the shooter is using. We know for sure that he's been using a .223 Remington round and some people have been asking what kind of weapon do they think he's used? Law enforcement believes that he is using a weapon similar to this.

This is the Colt AR-15. This is the standard issue of basically the civilian version of the M-16, which is the standard issue for U.S. military, and it's very easy to fire. This particular weapon is equipped with a 30-powered scope. There's all kinds of different sighting systems that can be used now.

Technology has it so all you have to do is just basically look through the optics, aim it, point the little point right on your target and pull and squeeze the trigger, makes it very easy, which means basically that you don't have to be an expert to know how to use one of these effectively.

Now, we talk about the rounds and what they are recovering. The round is a .223 round that is fired from this kind of weapon. They're also had been talking about a possible hunting-weapon, hunting-type rifle, but they believe that the AR-15 is the one type of weapon that he's using -- he or she is using.

Now, the .223 round, it's not very big, as you can see, but is extremely powerful. It has a multi velocity between 3,000 and 3,500 feet per second when it comes out of the barrel of the weapon. Now, at two locations they found shell casing. The shell casing is the brass piece of the round, and there's a lot of different things you can find out from the shell casing.

It can have fingerprints on it. It can also have marks, ejector marks and that's one of the reasons they believe a semiautomatic round -- the semiautomatic weapon has been used because it has one of the rounds had an ejector mark on it. So, that's why they believe this kind of semiautomatic weapon was used in some of the killings -- Aaron.

BROWN: OK, let me throw a couple of quick ones at you. So let's say they know what kind of gun did this.

BROOKS: Right.

BROWN: I assume this being the United States, that this is a pretty easy gun to get your hands on?

BROOKS: It was. Some of them now, these kind of weapons are banned. There was a ban that was put in place, but you can still get weapons similar to this and, again, as I said, they're very easy to shoot. You don't have to be a trained marksman, a trained sniper to know how to use one of these weapons.

BROWN: OK, having said that, do -- you need some skill to fire 11 shots and hit 11 victims?

BROOKS: You do have to have some skill, and that's why a lot of the speculation they've been talking about, is he military? Is this person former law enforcement? Earlier we saw from Wolf's story that the military is looking into some of their former, possible former people that have been in the different services. So, again, in the weapon, the AR -- the M-16, the military version of the civilian weapon is the standard issue for law -- I mean for military from U.S. Army, Marines, Navy and Air Force.

BROWN: Mike, thanks for your help tonight. Mike Brooks, he does law enforcement work for us. We appreciate your work tonight down in Atlanta.

Later on NEWSNIGHT, dealing with the chores of daily life if you can, while overcoming your fears. Life has certainly changed in the Washington area.

And up next, how the sniper story is affecting one political race, the race in Maryland and it is impacting it.

This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: And coming up on NEWSNIGHT, how the sniper's story is playing out an election year in the state of Maryland. We're right back after a short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: It seemed inevitable and we suspect to some more than a little bit uncomfortable that the sniper story would become a political story with just weeks to go before Election Day. Some Democrats think they see a major vulnerability, a new line of attack against some Republicans who have come out against differing gun control proposals and when the Democrat's maiden name is Kennedy, the fight becomes heavy with history, a personal history, and a country's history as well.

Here's CNN Jonathan Karl.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JONATHAN KARL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Maryland with the election just three weeks away, everywhere there are reminders of the danger outside.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But she will have ridden the perpetrator of these dastardly deeds to light.

KARL: On the Democratic side is Kathleen Kennedy Townsend, the oldest child of Robert F. Kennedy. She's old enough to remember the assassination of her father and of her uncle, John F. Kennedy. For her, the sniper attacks hit home personally and politically.

LT. GOV. KATHLEEN KENNEDY TOWNSEND (D), MARYLAND: I have suffered more than most from gun violence, and I certainly want to do all I can to make sure that we can reduce gun violence, and I think it's important that we understand that it helps to have common sense gun laws. KARL: On the Republican side, there's Congressman Bob Ehrlich, who has earned high marks from the National Rifle Association for voting against gun control, a record that is now haunting his campaign.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: he voted against banning assault weapons and cheap handguns and got an "F" grade from the Brady campaign to prevent gun violence.

KARL: For her part, Townsend gets an "F" rating from the NRA as a long-time gun control advocate. But Ehrlich is outraged she would raise the issue while a sniper is terrorizing the state.

REP. ROBERT EHRLICH (R), MARYLAND GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: It appears that the Townsend campaign is seeking, I guess, to gain some political advantage from the incident itself or the incidents themselves.

KARL: Ehrlich is quick to point out that the Townsend campaign had said it would avoid the gun control issue in the wake of the sniper attacks. He wants the issue off limits. Townsend says nothing is going to stop her from talking about an issue so important to her.

TOWNSEND: I'm talking about an issue that is really important to me. I've suffered a great deal because of guns, and I don't want other people to suffer (UNITELLIGIBLE).

KARL (on camera): Because of this tragedy that's hit Montgomery County, it's hit Maryland, you think that gun control should not be an issue in this campaign?

EHRLICH: No I think it needs to be -- I think you need to be very sensitive to the situation, and clearly we don't know the facts of this case. So this case should not be part of the debate.

KARL: The sniper attacks themselves are not a political issue, but they are clearly on the minds of Maryland voters. Bob Ehrlich's first campaign event to the week was in a church basement here, just a quarter a mile away from where the sniper claimed one of his victims.

(voice-over): While the sniper attacks have brought more attention to Ehrlich's record on gun control, it may also affect the campaign in another less predictable way.

PAT CUMMINGS, LOCAL CANDIDATE: I'm concerned the voter turnout will be very low because people will be afraid of being exposed in that way.

KARL: It's hard enough to get people to the polls, even without a sniper on the loose.

Jonathan Karl, CNN, Kensington, Maryland.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: A few quick stories from around the world tonight, beginning with a horrible scene in Bali, it's at the tip of Indonesia. American intelligence officials have learned from a number of sources that a group linked to al Qaeda might be behind the bombing there. The group is known as Jemaah Islamiah, and it is far -- so far, rather, the death toll is at nearly 200, but there remain many missing and they are presumed dead, and many of those are believed to be Australians.

It's been a very difficult experience for Australia in this. A scare today aboard a Saudi jetliner during a flight from the Sudan. Security officers overpowered a man who tried to hijack the plane. One hundred and eighty-five passengers on board. The suspect in the case is a Saudi citizen. He was turned over to the Sudanese, who are investigating.

And not exactly a nail biter at the ballot box for Iraqi President Saddam Hussein. He was after all the only candidate running. Voters asked simply to pick yes or no to seven more years of Saddam. And the early results show, we think we can project this now, a 100 percent yes vote from several polling centers, which is quite an improvement over the referendum in 1995, where Saddam got but 99.96 percent of the yes votes.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT living in fear, the nation's capital. When we return, we'll have more on the sniper case as well. This is NEWSNIGHT from New York.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: A quick look ahead at what's coming up tomorrow morning on "AMERICAN MORNING WITH PAULA ZAHN." Here's Paula.

PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks Aaron. Of course, we will have the latest overnight developments in the search for the D.C. area sniper. But we also are going to try to fit in some much needed lighter news. Tony Orlando, yes, that's Tony Orlando, will tell us why he never really wanted to tie a yellow ribbon in the first place, and then we're going to be going to London to follow the trial of Princess Diana's butler. All that and more tomorrow morning at 7:00 a.m. -- Aaron.

BROWN: Paula, thank you.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, a guilty plea -- well no, that's not what we're going to do next. We'll go back to Wolf Blitzer and update the sniper investigation. This is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: A lot has gone on today in the last 24 hours since the last shooting in the sniper case. We go back now to Montgomery County, Maryland. Wolf Blitzer has been reporting on this, I guess since early in the afternoon now. It's now almost 11:00 Eastern. Wolf, why don't you just recap where we are?

WOLF BLITZER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: All right. It's almost 24 hours, more than 24 hours now since we know of the latest victim, 47- year-old Linda Franklin, gunned down in northern Virginia, as she left a Home Depot in the garage.

We learned she was an analyst for the FBI. That by all accounts simply a coincidence, not having been targeted. It brings the death toll now to nine dead, almost over two weeks, two seriously injured, including that little 13-year-old boy. Police, though, say they are getting a lot of eyewitness accounts, some eyewitness statements of what they saw, what they didn't see.

Here in Montgomery County, earlier today the police chief did release a picture, a composite illustration, a drawing of these two vans that some eyewitnesses say they saw leaving some of the scenes of the shootings, one a Ford Econoline, one a Chevy Astro van. Both have the silver roof racks. Both suggest that there is a burned out left tail light.

Some reports suggesting that there might be a license plate number, a partial license number. They have not released that. They also haven't released no sketch of any suspect, although three eyewitnesses apparently have told law enforcement that they think they saw a man or men olive complexion, dark skin, perhaps Hispanic, perhaps Middle Eastern.

No indication that they are the suspects, the killers in this particular case. The Pentagon has authorized the use of some high- tech satellite reconnaissance imagery, other equipment as requested by the FBI to show some pictures of the various locations. The FBI hoping that could pinpoint some of the scenes, see if there are any discrepancies that might help in this investigation -- Aaron.

BROWN: Wolf, thank you for your work tonight. Wolf Blitzer who has been in Montgomery County, Maryland reporting for us.

Two business stories in our "National Roundup" to report before we go tonight beginning with another very powerful rally on Wall Street. Lou mentioned this in the break there a little bit ago. The Dow soaring 378 points, a four-day gain of nearly 1,000 points, driving the rally. Solid profit reports from three companies in the Dow -- Citigroup, GM, and Johnson & Johnson. May it last.

Former ImClone CEO Sam Waksal pleaded guilty to six of the 13 charges surrounding the insider trading scandal. He pleaded guilty to only some of the charges against him, hoping to shield his daughter and his father from prosecution in the case.

Next on NEWSNIGHT, going through your mundane daily chores with one eye over your shoulder. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Finally from us tonight, the refrain of a 30-year-old Joanie Mitchell song has been going through our heads all day long. The line goes "you don't know what you've got until it's gone". What's gone in those counties in Maryland and Virginia and elsewhere around the District of Columbia is the sweet, carelessness of daily life. People have no choice but to go out and go about their business, of course, but in the middle of it all they must sometimes feel an odd shiver.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can't presume that you're safe outside of your house, you know?

BROWN (voice-over): Under any other circumstance we would never presume to try and read minds and hearts. But now, sad to say, in too many places near Washington, we feel sure we can read them, feel sure you can read them, too. What's in hearts and minds and how could it be otherwise, it must be sadness and fear and growing anger.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm waiting for the bus and my nervousness is terrible right now.

BROWN: It is almost unimaginable, really, to find yourself on a familiar street or in a parking lot you've pulled into a million times before and suddenly to feel you are not in a place you know like the back of your hand, but are instead in some strange no man's land exposed vulnerable with nothing to hide behind.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It could be anyone at any time. It's very scary.

BROWN: How awful to be haunted while doing the most mundane of things the things we are custom to doing, distractedly without thinking because thinking isn't necessary, really. These are just chores, after all, just a part of life's routine.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would not walk across any area, a big area, even across the street.

BROWN: It's not as if people can stop doing these things, of course. You've got to fill the tank with gas when it's empty. You've got to stop by the mall from time-to-time or the post office. You have to go out on the streets sooner or later. The kids have to go to school.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's warring. All we do is just stay inside and not do anything.

BROWN: In ordinary times, we do these things while our minds are somewhere else. One now, when 11 bullets have ended nine lives and forever changed two others, it has to be very hard indeed for anyone's mind to be elsewhere.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have young children that are four and six. Would he go that low? You know, and that is the sort of absurdity. The mere fact that you're going to that level of calculation, to go about your daily business is a fairly strange way to live one's life.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: It is a very strange way to live one's life. We're back again tomorrow, 10:00 Eastern time. We hope you join us. Until then, goodnight for all of us at NEWSNIGHT. TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





to Police; Pentagon Clears Way to Aid in Sniper's Capture>


Aired October 15, 2002 - 22:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, HOST: And good evening, again, everyone.
Late this afternoon, while writing the daily e-mail to viewers, I got angry. It wasn't just the sniper and the terror he's causing, though that's part of it. It is something more simple and it's sad. Nine people have died and few of us know their names or anything about their lives.

Some day when this killer is caught everyone will know his name. We'll know and, I suspect, remember every little detail of his life, what set this madness off. All of it. We won't remember the name Linda Franklin, the woman he murdered last night. We'll tell you more about her a little later in the program. She deserves that.

And here are some of the other lives we shouldn't forget so quickly. There was Jim Martin. Remember his name. He was the first to die.

And Sonny Buchanan. Sonny Buchanan was deeply involved helping troubled kids. He was an amateur poet. His fiancee read his Valentine's Day poem at his funeral.

The family of Prem Walekar recognized his cab when it came on the news, decorated as it was with American flags. His dream was simple, perhaps like yours. He wanted to see his daughter finish college. When he did, he planned to retire and, in his case, go back to India.

Dean Meyers' brother also saw the crime scene on the news and didn't realize it was Dean who had been murdered. A Vietnam vet and the kind of uncle who never forgot his birthday, the brother said.

Ken Bridges had six kids, worked in economic development for African-Americans. One friend said this of him: "If you were angry and you ran into Kenny, you might as well forget about being angry. Kenny could fix it."

And Sarah Ramos was described as someone who just radiated love. Her 7-year-old asked this of Sara's sister, "Can I call you Mama now?"

Jim and Sonny, Prem, Dean, Kenny and Sara, not names, but people. Not statistics, not a number. This killer hasn't killed nine, he has killed one person again and again and shattered an untold number of lives. And if for just for a moment we think of them as the individuals they were, we can mourn them. On to "The Whip" and what may be, we emphasize may be a major development in this investigation. Ed Lavandera leads our coverage tonight from Falls Church, Virginia. Ed, a headline from you tonight.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, we're back at the Home Depot in Falls Church, Virginia, where we were last night. And we have better indication of just what was happening behind me in the parking lot that you see behind me, as witnesses have been coming forward, perhaps helping out investigators more so than they've been able to get helped out so far at this point -- Aaron.

BROWN: Ed, thank you.

On to Montgomery County, Maryland. A broader look at the investigation, which has a number of angles to it. Tonight, Wolf Blitzer, has been there all day. So, Wolf, a headline from you tonight.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: One of the things that's happened, Aaron, is that the FBI, local law enforcement, they are asking for some big guns; namely, the Pentagon's help. And the Pentagon is saying, that's fine, we're ready to help. We'll have details -- Aaron.

BROWN: Wolf, thank you.

The latest victim of the sniper, the one last night, Linda Franklin. Who was she beyond the name? Bob Franken has spent the day reporting on that. So, Bob, a headline from you tonight.

BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, the killer who treats his victims like figures in a video game has once again shattered those who loved the very real human being he decided to eliminate. We'll have the story of another precious life lost.

BROWN: Bob, thank you. Back with all of you shortly.

Also coming up in the hour ahead: the sniper case and the politics of gun control. We'll look at how that is playing out in the race for the governor of Maryland, where one of the candidates knows the impact of gun violence better than most and she's not afraid to say it. Kathleen Kennedy Townsend on that and more coming up in the hour ahead.

We begin with the first word that police might now have a description of the sniper. Not just a description of the van, but a person to go with it. It is hard to overestimate how important this might be. We've long believed that somewhere somebody knows something.

Somebody has seen something and might not even realize what they have seen until someone draws them a picture. We are not there yet. But we do seem to be getting closer. We're also 24 hours into the latest murder investigation.

Twenty-four hours at the latest crime scene for CNN's Ed Lavandera, who joins us from northern Virginia. Ed, good evening again.

LAVANDERA: Good evening, Aaron.

Well, law enforcement sources tell CNN that three witnesses have reported seeing an olive or dark-skinned male at at least two of the sniper shootings, including the Home Depot behind me. That was last night's shooting.

Of course this is the kind of break that investigators have been hoping for. Perhaps the first step in bringing them toward catching the sniper.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LAVANDERA (voice-over): When the sound of a single rifle shot echoed through the Home Depot parking lot, witnesses say everyone knew instantly what happened. Perhaps that's why investigators are saying they have a good number of strong witnesses, something they haven't had in the other sniper killings.

CHIEF TOM MANGER, FAIRFAX COUNTY, VA. POLICE DEPT.: There was some additional information that we were able to get from last night's case, and I am confident that ultimately that information is going to lead us to an arrest in this case.

LAVANDERA: The Home Depot parking lot appears well protected. Concrete walls and a restaurant building blocked the view through the sides of the two-story parking structure. The best view of where Linda Franklin was murdered is from across Route 50.

Sources tell CNN it's believed the suspect's vehicle left the scene driving east on Route 50 toward downtown Washington, then made a U-turn and disappeared on to the 495 Beltway. Despite surveillance helicopters and roadblocks, where every vehicle was stopped, the sniper got away again.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are a fair number of ways to leave that area. We had officers in the area as quickly as we could in an attempt to get any information we could about folks that were in that area.

LAVANDERA: Witnesses at this scene describe seeing a light colored Chevy Astro van, like this one, with a ladder rack and the left rear tail light out. But at task force headquarters in Montgomery County, Maryland, investigators also released composite images, a van seen at the Exxon gas station shooting in Fredericksburg, Virginia last Friday.

Authorities are looking for one vehicle, but witnesses had different takes on what that van looked like. It's evident authorities have found some of the most useful witnesses since the sniper killings started, but despite this, there's still not enough to release a sketch of a suspect.

CHIEF CHARLES MOOSE, MONTGOMERY COUNTY, MD. POLICE DEPT.: If we have information that we feel needs to be in the public arena, would be helpful in the case, we will present that information.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LAVANDERA: Aaron, one other piece of evidence that investigators are working with is a partial license plate information they have been able to gather from several witnesses at this scene. But it still hasn't been enough to be released at this point, as we understand it, and it's also the first time that they have publicly said that they have that type of information to go on -- Aaron.

BROWN: Well, in fact, as late as last night, or perhaps early this morning, we lose track, they did not know they had a license tag to work with. So that is at least new as of this day. Two quick things. Are the witnesses -- do these witnesses -- are they consistent in their description of this suspect, for lack of another word?

LAVANDERA: Well, the information that we've been getting is that it's either olive or dark-skinned. And perhaps that's depending on just what kind of version those three witnesses have been able to coming up with at this point. So I think that's why they are trying to leave perhaps a little bit of leeway there in that description.

BROWN: And do we know the circumstances under which the witnesses saw or believe they saw this person? Did anyone see the shooting? Was this part of someone getting away? Do we know any of that?

LAVANDERA: That much information we haven't been able to gather at this point. If you remember, Aaron, last night when we were here reporting from the scene, many of those witnesses were quickly whisked away from the scene. And, in several cases, we saw several witnesses being put in police cars and taken away from the scene. And as we tried to approach them we were told to back away in some situations.

BROWN: We understand. Ed, thank you. Ed Lavandera in Falls Church, Virginia in northern Virginia.

Getting back to this question of eyewitness testimony for a moment, there's no question it helps police and prosecutors. It is badly needed in this case. But a couple of things need to be said as well about its limitations.

Here's CNN's Jeanne Meserve.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I saw her on the floor laying down and she covered, and her car behind her with the stuff from Home Depot.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We went outside and offered to help because we're in the medical profession. And the police said there's nothing left to do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We saw them go after a guy in a van that was parked out across the street. JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In this investigation, eyewitnesses are as valuable as gold. And the shooting in a crowded parking lot provided a wealth of them.

MICHAEL BOUCHARD, ATF: Witnesses are becoming more aware of what's going on and we're getting more information each time.

MESERVE: Witnesses Monday night have provided vehicle descriptions, partial license plate numbers. And according to law enforcement sources, are working with officials to come up with a composite drawing of a dark-skinned man or men. Eyewitness testimony from earlier sniper slayings resulted in graphics of a white box truck and two white vans.

MOOSE: We'd like to be real clear, sir, that they are composites. That when you deal with victims, that we don't all see the world the same.

MESERVE: And that is just one of the limitations of eyewitness testimony. Some studies have shown that high levels of stress can impair a witness' memory. That when a weapon is used, witnesses focus on the weapon, rather than the shooter. And that there is little or no correlation between a witness' confidence in their memory and the accuracy of the memory.

Investigators in this case acknowledge different people have different powers of observation.

GARY BALD, FBI: Typically, when you conduct an investigation and you receive information from a witness you not only just take their information, but you evaluate how strong their information is, how reliable the information is.

MESERVE (on camera): It helps that in the Falls Church shooting there are several people to talk to. In the words of one law enforcement official, "One person may not see what another person does, but if you have enough stories you can put together a pretty accurate picture."

Jeanne Meserve, CNN, Montgomery County, Maryland.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: We were struck last night by pictures of the capital Beltway. We imagine you were too. And the rest of the major highways in the area just moments after the shooting, really. Police shut them down hoping to snare the killer in a massive traffic jam going car to car, taking down license plates and driver's license numbers. This is just one of a number of novel strategies that's being tried.

More are being considered tonight, including an extraordinary one, the use of military technology and military personnel. For a look at that and other broader investigative developments in the case, we go back to Montgomery County and CNN's Wolf Blitzer, who has been reporting this all day.

Wolf, good evening again.

BLITZER: Good evening, Aaron.

It is pretty amazing. They've asked the Pentagon for some help and tonight the Defense Secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, has signed off on that. He's ready to provide some high-technology expertise, some equipment to help in this investigation. The FBI would very much like to see, for example, some reconnaissance photography, some satellite imagery of all of the scenes of these various shootings. They are going to get that.

They want to see if there are some discrepancies. Very significant development, the use of this new high technology, and the Pentagon having to get permission to do it under the so-called posse comitatus law, which prevents the military from getting involved in law enforcement in the United States. But that was overruled; that was signed by the defense secretary earlier, and that will now happen.

I want to bring in Michael Weisskopf from "TIME" magazine, our sister publication. He's been doing some extensive reporting on all of this.

Some of this new technology, Michael, as you reported, includes what we used to call in the old days some "Star Wars" technology. Tell us about that.

MICHAEL WEISSKOPF, SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, "TIME": It involves, Wolf, re-creating the shooting scene by using three dimensional computer imaging. The idea is to create a likeness almost identical to where the shooter may have been, move the shooter around and allow eyewitnesses to take a look, in the hope that their memories will be jogged and the hope that they'll remember that in their subconscious that the guy had a mustache or that he had a limp or a white hat.

BLITZER: I know that the Pentagon does help on occasion, of course, in the drug war, when there were riots in Los Angeles, elsewhere. National Guard troops, of course, were brought out. But what we're seeing right now, at least in my recollection, Michael, correct me if I'm wrong, is pretty extraordinary.

WEISSKOPF: Yes, and it's really not a surprising development, considering -- especially from the Pentagon, considering how far advanced we've gone in warfare. The idea of air war without suffering casualties on the ground. You'd expect this kind of satellite treatment to be applied as well to crime detection.

BLITZER: Another role the Pentagon's playing, the local law enforcement, the FBI, they want to know if some snipers were trained in the Army, the Air Force, the Marine Corps, the Navy, that may have been discharged and may have had some grudge. Tell us about that, because I know you've done some reporting on that as well.

WEISSKOPF: There have been some developments even today on that, Wolf. The Pentagon asked by federal law enforcers to look through the records of old sniper schools for people discharged potentially with misconduct or bad behavior. It has focused up to now on the Army and the Marines. But that shifted today to the Navy and to the Air Force. So they're quite serious and think that this is a significant lead.

BLITZER: The whole business, though, of the FBI analyst who was killed last night, as far as you can tell and all of our reporting can tell, this was purely coincidental, a tragic coincidence. There's no indication whatsoever that this woman was targeted.

WEISSKOPF: That's right. These are real crimes of opportunity. This sniper or snipers finds a location that has little to do with the victim himself. He just seems to pick one out like ducks in a barrel.

BLITZER: Michael Weisskopf of "TIME" magazine, thanks for your good reporting.

And here in Montgomery County, the police chief, Charles Moose, the ATF agent, other FBI agents, they all went out of their way to make the point that Linda Franklin, the woman tragically killed last night, was not involved at all in this investigation.

Aaron, back to you.

BROWN: Wolf, one quick thing before we let you get away here. Just, maybe you heard Michael more clearly than I. He talked about investigators looking at people in the Army and the Marines who may have had some issue and were discharged or whatever. And then he said and now they are focusing on the Air Force and Navy. And he said this is significant development.

Can you tell me the significance of it? Do they believe that the Navy or the Air Force has something here?

BLITZER: Well, they think that all four branches of the military, they have snipers, they have various trained marksmen who go about and learn how to do this. But they were going first with the Marine Corps and the Army, and now they're even checking the Air Force and the Navy, which may not have as many as the Army or as the Marine Corps. So it's significant that all four branches of the military are being brought in to see if they can find somebody who may have a grudge, somebody who may have been discharged for bad conduct and may want to go out and do these crazy horrible things.

BROWN: It is an odd bookend in your reporting tonight that we begin on how the military might be called upon to help solve this. And we end talking about the possibility -- and it is only that -- that someone in the military or who was in the military might be responsible. Wolf, we'll check back with you before we leave, before the program ends tonight and recap where we are. Thank you for your work today.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, more on the sniper investigation. A lot more, in fact. We'll talk with a profiling expert. We'll also have more on the victim of last night's attack, Linda Franklin. A long way to go yet tonight.

This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Linda Franklin now, her life not her death. In a way she was embarking on a new life when the sniper struck her last night. It's never easy watching stories like this one about what was, what might have been and won't be anymore. Sometimes we think it's the toughest thing we do. But in other ways, it is the best we can do.

Here's CNN's Bob Franken.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FRANKEN (voice-over): Linda Franklin lived her life in quiet anonymity, a 47-year-old mother of two adult children. But her life was taken in the unspeakable incomprehensible way that has traumatized the area and once again left a family in agony.

BILL MURRAY, FAMILY SPOKESMAN: The Franklin family is devastated by this tragic event. Linda's family is shocked by the senseless loss of life.

FRANKEN: Her death was laden with tragic irony. Linda Franklin had survived a tough battle with cancer and she worked for the FBI. An intelligence analyst for the infrastructure protection center. Sources say, however, there is no indication her killer knew that.

Federal Bureau of Investigation officials joined family and friends throughout the day, trying to offer comfort to her adult children and her husband Chad, a civilian computer engineer, who was by her side when she was shot down.

FBI Director Robert Mueller called Linda Franklin a dedicated employee whose death has left her colleagues deeply shocked and angry. The Franklins were planning to move from their condominium this Friday, and it was widely believed that the preparations made the fateful trip to the Home Depot necessary.

She was looking ahead after a double mastectomy and was she was still undergoing physical therapy in her battle against cancer.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FRANKEN: And after all that, her life was suddenly snuffed out very quickly. The death made more unbearable by the question her family and the community continues to ask: Why?

BROWN: Yes, it's the question we all ask, isn't it? Why? Why any of this? Why so much of this? And I suppose, when will it end?

Bob, thank you. Bob Franken in our Washington bureau tonight.

We're also joined tonight from Washington by Jeff Beatty, He is the president, Jeff is, of totalsecurity.us. Before that, he worked for the FBI, the CIA and the Delta Force. Jeff gets around and it's good to see him again.

Could this be terrorist with a capital "T"?

JEFF BEATTY, TOTAL SECURITY.US: Well, it could be. You know, we certainly have not been wanting for speculation on what it might be, who might be behind it, et cetera. And I'd be reluctant to do anything except say, yes, it could be.

BROWN: I don't want to play speculation games or any games for that matter. Is there anything in what we've seen, what we know, that either argues that it is or is not?

BEATTY: Well, Aaron, I think that we certainly should recognize that there's been quite a level of sophistication in these attacks. We had a very good report earlier this evening from Ed Lavandera over at the Home Depot site from last night. One of the things that was in Ed's report is that this individual apparently took advantage of a terrain obstacle between where he fired his shot from and where the victim was.

Now we've seen other evidence of that in previous shootings. That he's trying to make sure pursuit is hampered by the planning of his operation. And I think that we have to look at it and say these operations have been well planned.

This is probably not the first time he's been to each one of these sites, when the shooting occurred, but he's rather probably conducted a casing in rehearsal. And it's time that we stop kind of being victimized and sitting there waiting for the next strike and kind of use his own tactics against him. And there is a way that we can do that.

BROWN: Well, OK. You asked the question, now you get to answer the question. And what should we then do?

BEATTY: I think that it's time that we look at each other and say do we have a neighborhood watch program in our neighborhood? What are we doing? If you are a business, your cameras are currently oriented on your parking lot. They should be oriented out there on areas 40 yards to 150 yards away, across a terrain obstacle in some case, where this individual has conducted his attacks from.

If this whole region -- if you are sitting at home in the Washington area tonight and you don't have a neighborhood watch program in your neighborhood, I challenge you to get one by this time tomorrow. You should be on the phone with your neighbors.

BROWN: I'm sorry. Just everyone on the planet may know exactly what this means besides me. Terrain obstacle means what?

BEATTY: Forgive me. For example, something like a median on a highway, across an interstate highway. Something that would make it very difficult for a police officer in car or anybody else, for that matter, to rapidly pursue or even get a good look at the shooter.

BROWN: Is it -- do you have a view on how the various police agencies or the task force have handled information in terms of their objective, which is catching this person? BEATTY: I think that one of the things we have to credit this whole effort with has been a terrific involvement of the public up until this point. But the involvement has been reactive. We've been asking for people to call in with tips on things that they've seen.

I think that they should continue to employ the public. After all, the public is half of public safety. And try to go on the -- not really the offensive, but be more proactive. Be aware of what's going on in your neighborhood. If you have an unused video camera that's in the house, I know civil libertarians are going to be calling up and complaining about this, but, Aaron, to me we are in the equivalent in these neighborhoods of the homeland security advisory system Code Red now.

These neighborhoods are threatened. And under Code Red, on a national level, we do such things as increase our surveillance, limit our routes. And be more aware. It's time that we start doing that proactively in our neighborhoods.

BROWN: In 10 seconds or less, do you think they're going to get this guy?

BEATTY: Yes, I do. I believe they will.

BROWN: And you think they'll get him because they're lucky because he messes up or because they've been really good?

BEATTY: I think they'll get him because the public will help, there will be good police work involved. And every time he strikes, it's another operational act and the time will run out on him.

BROWN: Jeff, thanks. Good to talk to you again -- Jeff Beatty. I guess from where we sit, it doesn't matter whether they are lucky, good or whatever. Just end it.

Coming up on NEWSNIGHT: more on possible profiles of the sniper. More on the shootings as well.

This is NEWSNIGHT from New York.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: I think it's safe to say when it comes to the sniper everyone has become an armchair profiler by now. Just try this experiment: try not to wonder about what drives the killer, try not to solve the puzzle.

It says something, we think, throughout all of this. The top movie at the box office remains "Red Dragon," a movie about a homicidal maniac and the profiler who catches him. Human nature is a powerful thing.

So with that as a backdrop, we're joined by Robert Ressler. He's a former special agent to the FBI. Currently president of Forensic Behavioral Services, Inc. He joins us from Santa Rosa Beach in Florida. Mr. Ressler, nice to have you with us tonight.

ROBERT RESSLER, FMR. FBI SPECIAL AGENT: Good evening.

BROWN: Thank you. A couple -- I wonder if I can run down some things quickly and you give me your impressions. Are we looking, do you believe, for one person or more than one person?

RESSLER: I really believe that we're looking for more than one person; two in particular. These types of things that occur, I mean they've happened before. It's not the first time we've seen this type of thing.

But essentially when you're dealing with one single individual, they tend to be more mentally disordered, either psychotic or borderline psychotic. When you have two individuals, they tend to be more of your psychopathic variety. They tend to be people that are better planned, more premeditated, and there's a great deal of planning and premeditation in their crimes.

That's what it seems like we have here, because, in fact, they are getting away with it fairly successfully.

BROWN: I gather that you would agree with -- I don't know if you heard Jeff -- but, Jeff Beatty, a moment ago, who said he believes at least there is some rehearsal or casing of each location before the incident.

RESSLER: I believe that, yes. The way these things are going down would indicate, again, from the personality, people that would get into this type of conspiratorial behavior that they would plan, premeditate, that they would case and surveil, make a dry run on a location and then, of course, effect their crime. With two people it would be a lot easier because one could drive the vehicle.

The other could set up in the back with the weapon. One could act as actually a spotter for a...

(CROSSTALK)

RESSLER: ... shooter and of course, once the shot is fired, there would be very little delay. The driver would already be moving his vehicle out of the area, and I think they are doing some subtefuge too, I think locating near thorough fairs, near interstates might just be a subterfuge from this fact that they're not using those avenues, that they're actually getting off onto back roads, back streets and therefore alluding police apprehension.

BROWN: Again, quickly if you can, that would be someone who, it would seem to me at least, is someone who is familiar with the area, lives in the area. Would you expect that this person or persons is a resident of suburban Washington, D.C.?

RESSLER: Again, I would believe that.

BROWN: OK. RESSLER: These people definitely have a knowledge of the area. They're not strangers. They haven't come from across the country to do this particular deed. There is no particular political motivation here that's identifiable. This is what I call a personal cause type crime. You have people that have -- are venting their hostility and their aggression against society for their own particular reasons.

BROWN: Well that goes to my next question in a sense. What is it they want here? What are they -- what are they trying, as silly as this may sound, trying to accomplish here? they want a piece of history?

RESSLER: Well only they know exactly what they want. But, from the standpoint of researching this sort of thing over many years, studying many crimes, interviewing many similar type people in prisons, generally speaking these are people that have -- they're losers. They have seen a series of disappointments in their lifetime. They are up against the wall. They probably lost their job.

They probably lost their relationship with a significant other. They may be financially stressed. Normal people can cope with these types of events, but these individuals see no light at the end of the tunnel. And if you get two people like this in conspiracy, with a death wish and possibly suicidal, they may be desiring to go out in a blaze of glory, placing themselves into the history books. Believe me, infamy is very attractive to distorted people.

BROWN: Probably less than a minute. Do you think they've been planning this for six months, 30 days, or two weeks?

RESSLER: I don't think it's a long-term planning. I think the frustration that these people felt has been going on for a considerable time and I think that they've probably come together and decided to do this sort of thing. Their days are numbered because they're escalating their shootings, and they're trying play cat and mouse. They're trying to stay one ahead in front of law enforcement. But bringing in the military, the federal forces, these people are going to be caught.

BROWN: Mr. Ressler, we hope you're right. Nice to meet you, a terrific job tonight. Thank you very much. Robert Ressler, down in down in Florida, outside of Destin, Florida. With us tonight.

We want to focus for a minute or for a few moments on what can be learned from the bullets that have been fired, what investigators see when they look at the slugs that they found at the scene or that they've recovered from the victims.

We're joined from Atlanta tonight by CNN's law enforcement analyst Michael Brooks. Michael, good evening.

MIKE BROOKS, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Good evening, Aaron.

BROWN: Go ahead and set us off here.

BROOKS: Well (UNITELLIGIBLE) there's been a lot of talk about what kind of weapon the shooter is using. We know for sure that he's been using a .223 Remington round and some people have been asking what kind of weapon do they think he's used? Law enforcement believes that he is using a weapon similar to this.

This is the Colt AR-15. This is the standard issue of basically the civilian version of the M-16, which is the standard issue for U.S. military, and it's very easy to fire. This particular weapon is equipped with a 30-powered scope. There's all kinds of different sighting systems that can be used now.

Technology has it so all you have to do is just basically look through the optics, aim it, point the little point right on your target and pull and squeeze the trigger, makes it very easy, which means basically that you don't have to be an expert to know how to use one of these effectively.

Now, we talk about the rounds and what they are recovering. The round is a .223 round that is fired from this kind of weapon. They're also had been talking about a possible hunting-weapon, hunting-type rifle, but they believe that the AR-15 is the one type of weapon that he's using -- he or she is using.

Now, the .223 round, it's not very big, as you can see, but is extremely powerful. It has a multi velocity between 3,000 and 3,500 feet per second when it comes out of the barrel of the weapon. Now, at two locations they found shell casing. The shell casing is the brass piece of the round, and there's a lot of different things you can find out from the shell casing.

It can have fingerprints on it. It can also have marks, ejector marks and that's one of the reasons they believe a semiautomatic round -- the semiautomatic weapon has been used because it has one of the rounds had an ejector mark on it. So, that's why they believe this kind of semiautomatic weapon was used in some of the killings -- Aaron.

BROWN: OK, let me throw a couple of quick ones at you. So let's say they know what kind of gun did this.

BROOKS: Right.

BROWN: I assume this being the United States, that this is a pretty easy gun to get your hands on?

BROOKS: It was. Some of them now, these kind of weapons are banned. There was a ban that was put in place, but you can still get weapons similar to this and, again, as I said, they're very easy to shoot. You don't have to be a trained marksman, a trained sniper to know how to use one of these weapons.

BROWN: OK, having said that, do -- you need some skill to fire 11 shots and hit 11 victims?

BROOKS: You do have to have some skill, and that's why a lot of the speculation they've been talking about, is he military? Is this person former law enforcement? Earlier we saw from Wolf's story that the military is looking into some of their former, possible former people that have been in the different services. So, again, in the weapon, the AR -- the M-16, the military version of the civilian weapon is the standard issue for law -- I mean for military from U.S. Army, Marines, Navy and Air Force.

BROWN: Mike, thanks for your help tonight. Mike Brooks, he does law enforcement work for us. We appreciate your work tonight down in Atlanta.

Later on NEWSNIGHT, dealing with the chores of daily life if you can, while overcoming your fears. Life has certainly changed in the Washington area.

And up next, how the sniper story is affecting one political race, the race in Maryland and it is impacting it.

This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: And coming up on NEWSNIGHT, how the sniper's story is playing out an election year in the state of Maryland. We're right back after a short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: It seemed inevitable and we suspect to some more than a little bit uncomfortable that the sniper story would become a political story with just weeks to go before Election Day. Some Democrats think they see a major vulnerability, a new line of attack against some Republicans who have come out against differing gun control proposals and when the Democrat's maiden name is Kennedy, the fight becomes heavy with history, a personal history, and a country's history as well.

Here's CNN Jonathan Karl.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JONATHAN KARL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Maryland with the election just three weeks away, everywhere there are reminders of the danger outside.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But she will have ridden the perpetrator of these dastardly deeds to light.

KARL: On the Democratic side is Kathleen Kennedy Townsend, the oldest child of Robert F. Kennedy. She's old enough to remember the assassination of her father and of her uncle, John F. Kennedy. For her, the sniper attacks hit home personally and politically.

LT. GOV. KATHLEEN KENNEDY TOWNSEND (D), MARYLAND: I have suffered more than most from gun violence, and I certainly want to do all I can to make sure that we can reduce gun violence, and I think it's important that we understand that it helps to have common sense gun laws. KARL: On the Republican side, there's Congressman Bob Ehrlich, who has earned high marks from the National Rifle Association for voting against gun control, a record that is now haunting his campaign.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: he voted against banning assault weapons and cheap handguns and got an "F" grade from the Brady campaign to prevent gun violence.

KARL: For her part, Townsend gets an "F" rating from the NRA as a long-time gun control advocate. But Ehrlich is outraged she would raise the issue while a sniper is terrorizing the state.

REP. ROBERT EHRLICH (R), MARYLAND GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: It appears that the Townsend campaign is seeking, I guess, to gain some political advantage from the incident itself or the incidents themselves.

KARL: Ehrlich is quick to point out that the Townsend campaign had said it would avoid the gun control issue in the wake of the sniper attacks. He wants the issue off limits. Townsend says nothing is going to stop her from talking about an issue so important to her.

TOWNSEND: I'm talking about an issue that is really important to me. I've suffered a great deal because of guns, and I don't want other people to suffer (UNITELLIGIBLE).

KARL (on camera): Because of this tragedy that's hit Montgomery County, it's hit Maryland, you think that gun control should not be an issue in this campaign?

EHRLICH: No I think it needs to be -- I think you need to be very sensitive to the situation, and clearly we don't know the facts of this case. So this case should not be part of the debate.

KARL: The sniper attacks themselves are not a political issue, but they are clearly on the minds of Maryland voters. Bob Ehrlich's first campaign event to the week was in a church basement here, just a quarter a mile away from where the sniper claimed one of his victims.

(voice-over): While the sniper attacks have brought more attention to Ehrlich's record on gun control, it may also affect the campaign in another less predictable way.

PAT CUMMINGS, LOCAL CANDIDATE: I'm concerned the voter turnout will be very low because people will be afraid of being exposed in that way.

KARL: It's hard enough to get people to the polls, even without a sniper on the loose.

Jonathan Karl, CNN, Kensington, Maryland.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: A few quick stories from around the world tonight, beginning with a horrible scene in Bali, it's at the tip of Indonesia. American intelligence officials have learned from a number of sources that a group linked to al Qaeda might be behind the bombing there. The group is known as Jemaah Islamiah, and it is far -- so far, rather, the death toll is at nearly 200, but there remain many missing and they are presumed dead, and many of those are believed to be Australians.

It's been a very difficult experience for Australia in this. A scare today aboard a Saudi jetliner during a flight from the Sudan. Security officers overpowered a man who tried to hijack the plane. One hundred and eighty-five passengers on board. The suspect in the case is a Saudi citizen. He was turned over to the Sudanese, who are investigating.

And not exactly a nail biter at the ballot box for Iraqi President Saddam Hussein. He was after all the only candidate running. Voters asked simply to pick yes or no to seven more years of Saddam. And the early results show, we think we can project this now, a 100 percent yes vote from several polling centers, which is quite an improvement over the referendum in 1995, where Saddam got but 99.96 percent of the yes votes.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT living in fear, the nation's capital. When we return, we'll have more on the sniper case as well. This is NEWSNIGHT from New York.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: A quick look ahead at what's coming up tomorrow morning on "AMERICAN MORNING WITH PAULA ZAHN." Here's Paula.

PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks Aaron. Of course, we will have the latest overnight developments in the search for the D.C. area sniper. But we also are going to try to fit in some much needed lighter news. Tony Orlando, yes, that's Tony Orlando, will tell us why he never really wanted to tie a yellow ribbon in the first place, and then we're going to be going to London to follow the trial of Princess Diana's butler. All that and more tomorrow morning at 7:00 a.m. -- Aaron.

BROWN: Paula, thank you.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, a guilty plea -- well no, that's not what we're going to do next. We'll go back to Wolf Blitzer and update the sniper investigation. This is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: A lot has gone on today in the last 24 hours since the last shooting in the sniper case. We go back now to Montgomery County, Maryland. Wolf Blitzer has been reporting on this, I guess since early in the afternoon now. It's now almost 11:00 Eastern. Wolf, why don't you just recap where we are?

WOLF BLITZER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: All right. It's almost 24 hours, more than 24 hours now since we know of the latest victim, 47- year-old Linda Franklin, gunned down in northern Virginia, as she left a Home Depot in the garage.

We learned she was an analyst for the FBI. That by all accounts simply a coincidence, not having been targeted. It brings the death toll now to nine dead, almost over two weeks, two seriously injured, including that little 13-year-old boy. Police, though, say they are getting a lot of eyewitness accounts, some eyewitness statements of what they saw, what they didn't see.

Here in Montgomery County, earlier today the police chief did release a picture, a composite illustration, a drawing of these two vans that some eyewitnesses say they saw leaving some of the scenes of the shootings, one a Ford Econoline, one a Chevy Astro van. Both have the silver roof racks. Both suggest that there is a burned out left tail light.

Some reports suggesting that there might be a license plate number, a partial license number. They have not released that. They also haven't released no sketch of any suspect, although three eyewitnesses apparently have told law enforcement that they think they saw a man or men olive complexion, dark skin, perhaps Hispanic, perhaps Middle Eastern.

No indication that they are the suspects, the killers in this particular case. The Pentagon has authorized the use of some high- tech satellite reconnaissance imagery, other equipment as requested by the FBI to show some pictures of the various locations. The FBI hoping that could pinpoint some of the scenes, see if there are any discrepancies that might help in this investigation -- Aaron.

BROWN: Wolf, thank you for your work tonight. Wolf Blitzer who has been in Montgomery County, Maryland reporting for us.

Two business stories in our "National Roundup" to report before we go tonight beginning with another very powerful rally on Wall Street. Lou mentioned this in the break there a little bit ago. The Dow soaring 378 points, a four-day gain of nearly 1,000 points, driving the rally. Solid profit reports from three companies in the Dow -- Citigroup, GM, and Johnson & Johnson. May it last.

Former ImClone CEO Sam Waksal pleaded guilty to six of the 13 charges surrounding the insider trading scandal. He pleaded guilty to only some of the charges against him, hoping to shield his daughter and his father from prosecution in the case.

Next on NEWSNIGHT, going through your mundane daily chores with one eye over your shoulder. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Finally from us tonight, the refrain of a 30-year-old Joanie Mitchell song has been going through our heads all day long. The line goes "you don't know what you've got until it's gone". What's gone in those counties in Maryland and Virginia and elsewhere around the District of Columbia is the sweet, carelessness of daily life. People have no choice but to go out and go about their business, of course, but in the middle of it all they must sometimes feel an odd shiver.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can't presume that you're safe outside of your house, you know?

BROWN (voice-over): Under any other circumstance we would never presume to try and read minds and hearts. But now, sad to say, in too many places near Washington, we feel sure we can read them, feel sure you can read them, too. What's in hearts and minds and how could it be otherwise, it must be sadness and fear and growing anger.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm waiting for the bus and my nervousness is terrible right now.

BROWN: It is almost unimaginable, really, to find yourself on a familiar street or in a parking lot you've pulled into a million times before and suddenly to feel you are not in a place you know like the back of your hand, but are instead in some strange no man's land exposed vulnerable with nothing to hide behind.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It could be anyone at any time. It's very scary.

BROWN: How awful to be haunted while doing the most mundane of things the things we are custom to doing, distractedly without thinking because thinking isn't necessary, really. These are just chores, after all, just a part of life's routine.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would not walk across any area, a big area, even across the street.

BROWN: It's not as if people can stop doing these things, of course. You've got to fill the tank with gas when it's empty. You've got to stop by the mall from time-to-time or the post office. You have to go out on the streets sooner or later. The kids have to go to school.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's warring. All we do is just stay inside and not do anything.

BROWN: In ordinary times, we do these things while our minds are somewhere else. One now, when 11 bullets have ended nine lives and forever changed two others, it has to be very hard indeed for anyone's mind to be elsewhere.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have young children that are four and six. Would he go that low? You know, and that is the sort of absurdity. The mere fact that you're going to that level of calculation, to go about your daily business is a fairly strange way to live one's life.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: It is a very strange way to live one's life. We're back again tomorrow, 10:00 Eastern time. We hope you join us. Until then, goodnight for all of us at NEWSNIGHT. TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





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