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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown

Virginia Will Be First to Try Sniper Suspects; Bush Begins to Reap Rewards of Republican Powers

Aired November 07, 2002 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


AARON BROWN, HOST: Good evening, again, everyone. We don't usually begin the program with condolences, but it seemed to fit tonight. They go out to the people in the state of Maryland. It has to do with an announcement today by the attorney general that Virginia will be the first place that's going to try the sniper suspects, even though Maryland lost more people than any other state and probably has the best claim on going first.
Six people who deserve justice in that state, whose families deserve a chance to face these suspects. Now this doesn't mean they won't get their chance, but it's anyone's guess at what point exactly that will happen. And there's also a certain intangible that's lost when the first trial happens somewhere else.

The reason behind the decision is simple, and the attorney general made no bones about hiding it. Virginia has and will impose the death penalty; Maryland, maybe not. This all strikes us, as "The New York Times" put it, like the justice of Alice in Wonderland. Sentence first, the queen says, verdict afterwards.

This is not about opposing the death penalty. It just seems like with the law you don't start with the punishment and work your way back. There's no justice in that. We hope Maryland -- and we especially hope the families there -- get their justice some time down the road soon.

On we go with The Whip, beginning once again with politics and the president. His agenda now after Tuesday's election. Our Senior White House Correspondent John King at the White House -- John, start us off with a headline.

JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, the president was already in a great mood earlier today, getting ready for a news conference to talk about the historic Republican gains in the elections, then a phone call from the French President, Jacques Chirac. The two leaders cut a deal on the long awaited United Nations Security Council resolution on Iraq. Suffice it to say the president thinks he's having a pretty good week.

BROWN: I bet he does. John, back to you in a moment. I have a feeling you just stole Richard Roth's headline. Richard is over at the U.N. tonight, and more on the resolution. Richard, think quickly.

RICHARD ROTH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes -- well, anyway, the United States no doubt will be screaming, "thank god it's Friday," because the U.S. has its Iraq resolution and finally the votes to approve it -- Aaron.

BROWN: Richard, I'll give you John's phone number later.

A fascinating story about a scenic spot in South America and its connection to terror and terrorists. Mike Boettcher has been working on that for a while -- Mike, give us your headline tonight.

MIKE BOETTCHER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, we've been told to look out for terrorism in the far East, terrorism in Western Europe. Later in the show we're going to tell you why you're going to have to look out for terrorist attacks coming from the south -- Aaron.

BROWN: Mike, thank you very much. Back to you and the rest shortly.

Also coming up, someone who knows the workings of presidential politics better than almost anyone we know, David Gergen, a veteran of more than a few administrations, Democrat and Republican.

A story tonight from Serena Atal (ph) on what will make you understand better the phrase "scared straight." This comes from an old drug used in a new way; a terrible addiction that's claiming a lot of young people and, of course, threatening to get worse. I hazard a guess that this is the first time I have ever said Eminem on NEWSNIGHT. They had to tell me it wasn't the candy. We'll talk about is new movie, "Eight Mile," with the host of "Access Hollywood," the premier entertainment journalist in America, Pat O'Brien tonight.

And if we could talk about the midterm elections for 29 hours, we can at least give this political story one minute and 15 seconds. A big fight where there has been fighting for centuries, which flag should fly at the Rock of Gibraltar. All that and more in the hour ahead.

We start tonight with how the president plans to use the new political power that voters gave him on Tuesday. Two days later, the accomplishment is no less historic and no less earth shaking, at least in the political sense. But the president and the political people who advise them are not fools. They get that to accomplish what they hope to accomplish they still need more votes in the Senate, where 60 is often a farm more important number than 51.

So the president is talking softly and moderately, even has he governs, and he has from the start conservatively. Today he met with reporters in his first full-fledged news conference since last July. We begin tonight with our Senior White House Correspondent, John King.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KING (voice-over): The president was humble, yet ambitious in discussing his post-election domestic priorities, forceful and stern when the issue turned to Iraq.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The debate about whether we're going to deal with Saddam Hussein is over.

KING: Confident he finally has a deal at the United Nations Security Council, Mr. Bush made clear what will happen if Iraq interferes with new weapons inspections.

BUSH: The United States, with friends, will move swiftly with force to do the job. You don't have to worry about that.

KING: It was the president's first public appearance since the historic Republican gains in the midterm elections, and he stuck to the no gloating edict he has given his staff.

BUSH: Some people have given me credit. The credit belongs to the people in the field.

KING: But Mr. Bush made clear he expects quick action on his priorities: creating a new department of homeland security and terrorism insurance for stalled construction projects are the president's goals for next week's lame duck session of Congress. Next year, Bush's wish list is far more ambitious, making his ten-year tax cut permanent, quick action on judicial nominees, and a prescription drug benefit for elderly Americans.

BUSH: If there is a mandate in any election, at least in this one it's that people want something to get done.

KING: Democrats say losing the elections doesn't mean they won't aggressively challenge the president's agenda.

REP. MARTIN FROST (D), TEXAS: We have sharp differences with this administration on economic issues. We want a real prescription drug plan. We want to put people to work.

KING: And there is pressure from conservatives, too. Many want Mr. Bush to seize the moment and push the Republican-controlled Congress to allow some Social Security taxes to be invested in the stock market and adopt new abortion restrictions. Mr. Bush is noncommittal.

BUSH: Well I appreciate all the advice I'm getting. My job is to set priorities and get them done.

KING: No gloating, but it is clear the president is in high spirits.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KING: There was, of course, one question about his own reelection campaign two years down the road. Mr. Bush said he wouldn't discuss that, not even commit to running, saying he's still recovering from this week's election. But he did say, and there should be no doubt, that Dick Cheney, in the president's view, is doing a superb job and will without question once again be his running mate -- Aaron.

BROWN: John, the president, even when he was the governor of Texas, has a governing philosophy that has been, take a few issues, not a long agenda, but a few issues and get those done. Anything that happened Tuesday changed that philosophy?

KING: No. Many conservatives wish it had, but the president was quite clear today. He will do this one step at a time, one or two issues at a time. The lame duck session first, homeland security and terrorism insurance. Look for a new economic package in the state of the union address. The president will focus first in the new session on the economy and then go from there.

He is clearly wanting now to send a very bipartisan, very even- tempered message, and he is very resistant, would not even answer directly the abortion question. Some conservatives say go for it all. They said that to Ronald Reagan, too, and they were frustrated. Looks like they'll have to wait a while for this president.

BROWN: John, thank you very much. Senior White House Correspondent John King at the White House tonight.

The president was confident, as you heard, that he'll get a resolution out of the U.N. Security Council, likely as early as tomorrow. It won't be exactly the resolution the president sought seven weeks ago, but it's likely he didn't expect to get it all in the first place, it was a negotiation. A long and difficult one, as it turns out, but after nearly two months of dealing with words large and small, the resolution it seems is now ready.

Here again, CNN's Richard Roth.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE

ROTH (voice-over): Hot off the presses. After weeks of debate, the U.S. resolution on Iraq is expected to be approved tomorrow by the Security Council, allowing U.N. weapons inspectors to return to Iraq. Diplomats say the U.S. and Russian ambassadors may have a deal after assurances from Washington and London that they would return to the Security Council should violations be reported.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We got explanations that neither of the co- sponsors interprets the language as containing automatic use of force.

ROTH: Earlier in the day, France dropped its objections over hidden trigger language and will vote the U.S. way. What broke the log jam for the veto-carrying council nations?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The four, 11 and 12 become a clearer nexus of paragraphs than with the word all.

ROTH: No matter the jargon, Iraq will have some simple deadlines to understand, seven days to accept the terms of the resolution, and 30 days to turn over all data on weapons of mass destruction.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROTH: And, of course, Baghdad has said it has no weapons of mass destruction but indicates it will cooperate with the returning inspectors. Syria has not indicated how it will vote at the Security Council on Friday. It may abstain or not even take part, or, surprisingly, go along in Council unity 15 to nothing -- Aaron.

BROWN: Does it matter what Syria does here? You can't kill the deal, correct?

ROTH: No. It is the main Arab country on the panel and the Arab world would be outraged on any military assault on Iraq, but the vote would not stop this resolution from going forward.

BROWN: And assuming for a moment this all goes as scripted now, how soon do those weapons inspectors go?

ROTH: They would start setting up a headquarters seven to ten days after tomorrow's passage of the resolution. And then 23 after that the Iraqis turn over weapons of mass destruction, and then 15 days after that -- so 45 days, Aaron, from the resolution tomorrow. You can expect full-fledged inspections going in.

BROWN: Richard, thank you. It's a long seven weeks of working this story. Richard Roth over at the U.N. tonight.

On to other things. A tug of war over the sniper suspects ended today. The federal government dropping its case against the two, paving the way for a traveling road show of trials beginning in northern Virginia, where justice is swift and the death penalty upon conviction more certain. That was the main development in the sniper case today, but by no means the only one. Here's CNN's Kelli Arena.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT: Alleged snipers John Allen Muhammad and John Lee Malvo are now in state custody in Virginia. The state is second only to Texas in death penalty executions and also allows the executions of minors.

JOHN ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL: We believe that the first prosecutions should occur in those jurisdictions that provide the best law, the best facts and the best range of available penalties.

ARENA: Muhammad and Malvo will be tried in separate counties. The attorney general would not say why. When asked if it's based on which suspect fired the shot in each case, prosecutors would only say the decision was evidence driven.

MARK HULKOWER, FMR. FEDERAL PROSECUOTR: Typically where you have multiple defendants involved in a case, here you have two people involved in murders, typically they're tried together. It's unusual that they would separate them as they did here.

ARENA: The 17-year-old, Malvo, will be tried first in Fairfax County. Linda Franklin, an FBI analyst, was shot and killed outside a Home Depot there. The case will be prosecuted by Robert Horan. He's been on the job nearly 36 years and won the death penalty for Mir Amil Kadsi (ph), the Pakistani who killed three people outside the CIA in 1993. ROBERT HORAN, VIRGINIA COMMONWEALTH'S ATTORNEY: I'm not at liberty to discuss the evidence with anybody. That's for the courtroom and that's where we'll put it on.

ARENA: The other suspect, John Allen Muhammad, will be tried first in Prince William County. Dean Harold Meyers was shot and killed at a Sunoco gas station there. Paul Ebert is the prosecutor in Prince William, which has handled more death penalty cases than any other county in Virginia.

PAUL EBERT, VIRGINIA COMMONWEALTH'S ATTORNEY: The death penalty is reserved for the worst of the worst. And I think from the evidence that all of you are aware of over the last month or so, these folks qualify.

ARENA: Police say they've linked another fatal shooting to Muhammad and Malvo. This one in Georgia. Investigators say a handgun used to kill a man outside an Atlanta liquor store on September 21 has been linked to the sniper suspects.

(on camera): Police in Montgomery, Alabama found that gun near a shooting there that they believe Muhammad and Malvo committed.

Kelli Arena, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, top Democrat in the House steps down. We'll talk with David Gergen about what lies ahead for both the Democrats and President Bush and the Republicans. That and much more as NEWSNIGHT continues back home in New York.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: More on Tuesday's Republican victory, Tuesday's Democratic defeat. Someone once said Republicans handle adversity by circling the wagons. Democrats, on the other hand, seem to be circling the firing squad or falling on swords.

Our friend and CNN political analyst, Bill Schneider, says his favorite part of elections are recriminations. He's having a grand time tonight. House Minority Leader Dick Gephardt became the first big name casualty today. CNN's Candy Crowley sat down with him earlier this evening.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): There are many good reasons Richard Gephardt should no longer lead House Democrats, but it boils down to this, it was time for him to go.

REP. DICK GEPHARDT (D), MINORITY LEADER: I think we need change. We need to look in new directions. We need somebody else to carry the baton for a while.

CROWLEY: The baton has always been burdensome. Wednesday morning it must have been unbearable.

GEPHARDT: I feel responsible. I got a sign behind me on this desk that says "the buck stops here." I'm a Harry Truman fan.

CROWLEY: It is also true that some Democrats were ready to push him. He got out before they started to throw the knives, said a colleague. When Gephardt saved him the trouble, his colleague said nice things and started to fight for his job. Texas Congressman Martin Frost was first in line.

FROST: I believe our party must occupy the center if we are to be successful, if we are to come back in the majority and not move farther to the left.

CROWLEY: Farther to the left is California Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi, enrolled in the school of thought that Democrats are in trouble because they've abandoned basic liberal principles and turned off their base. And that's the problem with being party leader. You have to figure out a way to speak for everybody and, in the process, you lose your voice.

GEPHARDT: The other thing is, when you're a leader here, you never have time to step back and say how should we do this? Where does the country need to go? What is the future on this issue and how do we get something that is new thinking, value-oriented, but exciting out in front of people?

CROWLEY: Hmm. Let's read this tea leaf.

(on camera): I've covered a lot of presidential campaigns. That's presidential talk.

GEPHARDT: Well, it may be, but it also may be somebody who has invested 25 years of experience here. And I think I have some experience that I can bring to important issues that I care an awful lot about. I want everybody in this country to be covered by healthcare.

CROWLEY (voice-over): I rest my case. Many of those around Gephardt are sure he'll make a run for the presidency. The question is whether he got out one election night too late.

Candy Crowley, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Well, David Gergen needs little introduction here. We're always fortunate when he has a few moments to come by and talk politics and government with us, and he's here tonight. It's nice to see you, sir.

DAVID GERGEN, FMR. WHITE HOUSE ADVISER: Thanks, Aaron.

BROWN: A quick one. Were you surprised by the breadth of the Republican rout on Tuesday? GERGEN: Absolutely. I was one of many who did not see it coming. I did not know Tuesday morning how it was going to turn out, but I never imagined Republicans would do as well as they would. And, you know, President Bush and his people are right to claim a lot of credit for it. It's historic.

If you go back all the way to Lincoln, only one other president has gained in the House and Senate, and that was Franklin Roosevelt. And what's important about that, of course, was that Roosevelt seized upon that opportunity to launch a second new deal. And now I think we see in George W. Bush somebody who is about to launch a second Bush presidency that will be much more aggressive and more conservative than his first.

BROWN: I don't want to linger on this point, but was it, in your view, an ideological victory or just a strange confluence of moments? 9/11 on one end, the prospect of war on the other, and a feeling to support the commander in chief above all else?

GERGEN: Well, I don't think there's any question that 9/11 gave George Bush a halo that, without that, the Republicans would not have won this. But I do think that it's an interesting coming together, conflation, as people call it, of his ideas. He went on the campaign hard on taxes, on the issue of the war, on judges. And he seemed to turn a lot of states at the last minute.

But it's also true organizationally the Republicans' Karl Rove just outsmarted and outplayed the Democrats. Karl Rove is a man of history, a man you'll appreciate. Now he came in thinking he was the Mark Hanna (ph) to McKinley and he's going to build a new Republican majority.

Mark Hanna (ph) was this legendary kingmaker late 19th, early 20th century. He was a major, major figure in American politics. And Karl Rove is living up to that tradition right now. You know, the money they raised, how they recruited the candidates, the message they put together completely outclassed the Democrats.

BROWN: And I thought -- and then we'll move off this -- how they -- you know, I think they learned a lesson -- they've learned many lessons from Bush 41. But one of the lessons is if you have political capital, you might as well spend it and get out there and use it. And they used the capital the president clearly has pretty well.

GERGEN: Use it or lose it.

BROWN: Yes, it is perishable. On the other side, the Democrats, what are they?

GERGEN: Well, the Democrats are way too dispirited now. Bill Clinton is putting out the message, and I think he's right. And frankly, Bill Clinton's magic with the voters has obviously waned. But he's the most capable strategist in the Democratic Party right now to think a way through this. And he's making the argument, hey, don't get too discouraged. This is really an opportunity to redefine the Democratic Party in a new way. So, you know, these things happen. Of course it's hard. But, hey, Clinton lost in '94, but they thought he was irrelevant. And then he came back and won the presidency and Democrats picked up a couple of years, two elections in a row.

BROWN: It is probably good to remember that politics in this country at this time can move at a kind of lightning speed. You go from an accidental president to a president with extraordinary popularity. You go from an impeached president to one who still can actually win seats in the midterm. It's not an easy game.

GERGEN: It's not an easy game, and the Bush people play for keeps. They know how to use power and they enjoy the exercise of power. And that's why I think he's not going to go to the middle. His rhetoric is going to go to the middle now. He's going to govern to the right. Let's not have any illusions about that.

What's also interesting to me, Aaron, is the Democratic Party has never fully recovered from the time when it was an amalgam of sort of northern liberals and southern conservatives. And once the civil rights movement came along and Lyndon Johnson signed those bills, he told Bill Moyers (ph) then, this is the right thing to do for America, but the south is going to go Republican, and that's what's happened.

And now what you see in the Nancy Pelosi-Martin Frost fight for the leadership, it's those two old wings fighting it out.

BROWN: Let me throw Iraq on the table. The president will tomorrow get much of what he wants from the Security Council it looks like.

GERGEN: And, listen, it's going to be a double win for him this week. Two major wins. Because it's likely he's going to get a unanimous vote now from the Security Council with the French coming aboard. The Russians are still a little edgy, but I think he's going to get it. But it's really important for the country that the Colin Powell approach go to the Congress, go to the U.N., that the president has moved off that hard line, moved to the Congress and has gotten approval on both things.

It's helped him so much, helped the country so much, that it will be seen by the rest of the world now as we approach Iraq, that at least we're doing it within the international body. We're going to do it within the context of international law. And you know, frankly, Colin Powel's been vindicated by doing this, and I think the president is right to move in this direction.

It's a more moderate view, but I think it's greatly strengthened his hand. I continually to believe there is an outside chance that Saddam will disarm voluntarily, he'll back down. The greater likelihood is that there are going to be serious violations and we're still going to be sending our military forces in there, within an international coalition now, sometime in January and February.

BROWN: It's nice to see you. It's been a heck of a week. GERGEN: And you've done a good job with it, Aaron.

BROWN: Thank you. It's nice of you to say. Thank you very much. David Gergen, tonight.

Coming up on NEWSNIGHT, the story of a dangerous new form of pcp that's hitting the streets of America's cities.

Up next, though, a terrorist connection south of the border. This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: We take you now to a spot on the map you may not have even known existed, a frontier. And like many frontiers, this one is exotic, rugged, remote and lawless. If you're a certain kind of tourist, an adventurer, this is the place for you. It is also the place for smugglers, armed dealers and al Qaeda. The report from CNN's Mike Boettcher.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BOETTCHER (voice-over): South Americans call this place the triple border, a tourist haven, the spot where the nations of Argentina, Brazil and Paraguay intersect at one of the natural wonders of the world, Eguazoo (ph) Falls. In counterterrorism circles, it is known as something else, a terrorist haven, a land of porous borders and base for terrorism financing and planning.

Halfway around the world on the wall of a top al Qaeda operative's abandoned house in Kabul, Afghanistan was this: a giant poster of Eguazoo (ph) Falls. CNN has learned from anti-terrorism coalition intelligence sources that several top terrorist operatives recently met in this isolated part of South America. Their purpose, according to those same sources, to plan attacks against U.S. and Israeli targets in the Western Hemisphere.

Two weeks ago, Argentina's security agencies issued a strong terrorist warning. Miguel Toma runs the Argentine equivalent of the CIA, called Cide (ph).

MIGUEL TOMA, ARGENTINE SECRETARY OF INTELLIGENCE (through translator): We had intelligence that pointed to increased terrorist activity. It's not unrealistic that there could be some action to prevent or to react to an attack on Iraq. So we need to react because of the global conflict.

BOETTCHER : Since 1992, when a terrorist bomb ripped apart the Israeli embassy in Buenos Aires, Argentina has been extremely active investigating global terrorist groups and their connections. Argentine intelligence documents previously obtained by CNN diagram links between mosques and businesses in the triborder region to a laundry list of groups which have claimed credit for terrorist attacks.

Egypt's Gama al Islamia (ph) publicly allied with al Qaeda and Lebanese Hezbollah and Islamic Jihad. All groups identified by the U.S. State Department as terrorist organizations. Additional evidence of a global link, thousands of U.S. dollars marked with stamps from Lebanese currency exchange banks, which Argentine investigators allege was used to finance terrorists in South America. Tens of thousands more in phony $100 bills, and receipts from huge wire transfers made between the triborder areas and the Middle East.

Argentina's top counterterrorist cop on the triborder sees a variety of terrorist groups cooperating here because of a common enemy: the United States and Israel.

ROBERTO ONTIVERTO, ARGENTINE COUNTERTERRORISM POLICE CHIEF (through translator): Yes, we have found the collaboration. In the same way that legal organizations need to collaborate and share information, terrorist organizations need to have that same collaboration, whether it be in training, materials, people or information.

BOETTCHER: Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad and al Qaeda, all groups that Argentine authorities are tracking in their region have significant ties to this man, Imad Mugniyah, photographed here in Lebanon about eight years ago. He is walking with Hezbollah's top leader, Shiek Hassan Nasrallah.

Obtained exclusively by CNN, it is one of the few existing photos of one of Mugniyah, one of the world's most wanted men, suspected of being the mastermind in a long list of attacks against U.S. and Israeli targets over the past 20 years. The 1983 U.S. Marines Beirut barracks bombing and 1992 bombing of the Israeli Embassy in Buenos Aires, just two examples.

Middle East intelligence sources tell CNN Mugniyah uses both Iran and Hezbollah-controlled areas of Lebanon as his bases and from those locations is directing a new terrorist effort in South America, making plans to hit U.S. and Israeli targets in the Americas if the United States attacks Iraq or Israel is drawn into the conflict.

Argentina's spy master Miguel Toma, met recently with his counterparts in Washington about the possibility of a new terrorist offensive launched from South America.

(on camera): Does -- what happens if your region in South America, impact the security in North America?

TOMA (through translator): Absolutely. This is a central theme discussed in recent trips to Washington. There is a direct correlation between terrorism here and the United States.

BOETTCHER (voice-over): Locals here joke there are more spies than tourists in triborder these days.

(on camera): When the war against terrorism was launched after the 9/11 attacks, intelligence agencies from around the world made this place a focus of their attention. But now many of the people that were watching have moved on. (voice-over): Argentina's counterterrorism police assert that terrorist operatives have dispersed east to the remote jungles of Brazil and as well to Brazil's financial Sao Paulo and west to the Chilean free-trade zone city of Akikai, located on the Pacific Coast in Chile's Northern Desert.

We went there to take a look for ourselves. It is a place where money and merchandise move freely, virtually unchecked. Forty-eight false Pakistani passports were recent live seized by police here, believed destined for terrorist use in upcoming attacks.

One year ago U.S. officials request that Chile investigate terrorist activity in Akikai. Jaime Navia is the Chilean judge assigned to write the secret summary.

(on camera): But are these things that Americans should be concerned about?

JUDGE JAIME NAVIA, CHILEAN INVESTIGATING MAGISTRATE (through translator): It's part of the secret summary what you are asking but I can inform you there are many people that appear in the investigation.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BOETTCHER: Now, when the camera was turned off, the judge who did not want to talk about the secret summary said he was very worried about those many people he talked about. Where are they? They've spread out learning from their counterparts in the rest of the world who have also spread out. They are stretching from the eastern jungles of Brazil to the western deserts of Chile and they're going to be very difficult to find -- Aaron.

BROWN: Oddly as you started the report, Mike, it reminded me of the big Mafia meeting in Upstate New York a long time ago.

When we talk about this group of people, how many people are we talking about at these confabs? Are we talking about dozens or a handful?

BOETTCHER: No, no, you're talking about a handful. And they don't want to attract a lot of attention. This meeting had been kept very secret until we were able to uncover it through our intelligence sources in different parts of the world frankly.

And it is the sort of thing that they want to keep very low key. And I'm sure they are not very happy that this meeting is now publicized. The big problem, Aaron, is where are they targeting this? Is it going to be in South America and North America? And we're told when the war on Iraq comes, it could be anywhere in both Americas.

BROWN: A terrific piece of work, Mike. Thank you. Nicely done. Mike Boettcher, investigative reporter out of Atlanta for us.

Later on NEWSNIGHT, we'll talk with our friend Pat O'Brien, the premiere entertainment journalist in the country and the anchor of "Access Hollywood" about a new film called "8 Mile," with the rapper Eminem.

But up next, a new and incredibly dangerous drug. This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: And coming up on NEWSNIGHT, an unbelievably dangerous old drug in a brand-new package. We're right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Some fast moving developments tonight on the investigation of the dreadful bombing blast last month in Bali. Indonesian police have a man in custody who says he took part in the attack. He lead police to a house where they found residue of the explosive used. Police say tonight they expect to make additional arrests shortly. They are also looking into ties between the suspects and a regional terrorist group with connections to al Qaeda.

In Gaza, a Red Cross worker was abducted by four Palestinians and released a short time later. Not a whole lot of detail on this. Sources say the kidnapper's ring leader is a former intelligence officer who abducted three Italian aide workers several months ago.

And off the coast of Scotland, well, these things happen from time to time. A Royal Navy nuclear submarine ran aground during a training exercise. No serious damage except perhaps to British pride.

It may sound like a ridiculous statement, drug dealers using some of the same tools of a buttoned down MBA, but in fact their business does involve creative marketing and this story is in a way about that. An old drug, a really fearsome one from the 70s, repurposed, if you will, to hook a new generation of users.

They call it "wet" or "fry" or "illy" but you would know it as PCP and it's the focus of a "CNN Presents" this weekend with Serena Altschul called "Fried."

We should say some of what you are going to see is a little alarming, which it seems is the point.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SERENA ALTSCHUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You see people come in like this a lot?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh all the time. This is very typical behavior.

ALTSCHUL: Did anybody ask him if he's been (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well I did, but he's not...

ALTSCHUL: Wow, he's really going. She's just giving him a shot.

(voice-over): This emergency room in new haven, Connecticut sees an average of 10 of these patients a week.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People are trying to come out with new improved forms of products no matter what they are. And the same is true in the drug trade. And so if somebody came up with a new method of packaging PCP. They dissolved it in formaldehyde embalming fluid, and I'm not sure how they got the idea but when you heat up the embalming fluid it gives off a pretty pleasant odor. So when you're using it, there's a pleasant odor to it.

ALTSCHUL: How does it make you feel when you smoke it? How's it different from weed?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your body start getting numb. It's a numbness in your body. Good, man.

ALTSCHUL: Kenny and Jean are roommates at a rehab program called New Choices, just outside New Haven. One of their drugs of choice was illy.

ALTSCHUL: When did you first try it? When was your first illy experience?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Beginning in ninth grade.

ALTSCHUL: How old?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 14.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kids younger than my age came up me buying it. Kids 10, 11, 12. Kids my age doing it and I'm like, Whoa, it's getting out of control.

ALTSCHUL: You went to school while you were on it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was stupid. But, in school it was terrible. I just got confused. I didn't know what to do. I went to the bus stop, and I wasn't sure if the bus came already. I wasn't sure if it was a school day. I wasn't sure if it was Saturday. I wasn't sure if it was noon. I didn't know anything. Scared me a little bit so I didn't do that anymore.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Something like 5 percent of illy users will develop a persistent state that's similar to schizophrenia.

ALTSCHUL: Paranoid schizophrenia, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE; Yes, exactly.

ALTSCHUL: Sort of a permanent state.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And it becomes a permanent state. And that can happen even after even just a couple uses. So it's for a lot of reasons, it's a bad drug.

(END VIDEOTAPE) BROWN: Bad drug it is. You can see the hour, called "Fried," "CNN PRESENTS," Sunday 8:00 p.m. Eastern here on CNN. And where else would "CNN PRESENTS" be?

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, Eminem and Pat O'Brien. There's two guys with a lot in common. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: I don't want to make this too personal, but I guess I feel a little left out because, as far as I can tell, Eminem is not angry at me.

He seems pretty angry at just about everyone else, including his ex-wife, his mother, gay people, other white rappers and we stress this is a very abbreviated list. It's possible he'll be mad at me by the end of this. We'll see.

The rapper has a movie coming out that's loosely based on his life, growing up and getting angry in Detroit. It's called "8 Miles." He's given only one interview to promote the movie. He gave it to Pat O'Brien, who else? The host of "Access Hollywood." We'll see a less angry Eminem when he was asked about his scrapes with the law.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAT O'BRIEN, "ACCESS HOLLYWOOD" HOST: What's scared you the most and what's changed you the most?

EMINEM, RAPPER: My criminal cases scared me the most.

O'BRIEN: Possible jail. That scare you?

EMINEM: Yes. That scared me the most. It's no joke when you're standing up there. And I'm sure, you know, it's been shown many times on TV. You can see -- you -- it humbles you very quickly. I walked into that courtroom, like, all I could think about was, What am I going to say to Haile? Because Haile, still to this day, knows nothing about it. She does not know that I possibly could have been taken away from her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: That's Eminem and that's Pat O'Brien. Mr. O'Brien joins us from Los Angeles. Nice to see you, Pat.

O'BRIEN: I have to tell you, it's so exciting to see that "Access Hollywood" logo on the show that I'm addicted to late at night here on CNN. So Aaron, nice to see you and thanks for having me on.

BROWN; Thanks for coming on.

Did you like Eminem? I mean, here's a guy that's got a major reputation as violent, angry, hates women, hates this, hates that. Did you come away from the interview liking him? O'BRIEN: Yes, I mean, I think -- you know, here's a guy who's probably the most controversial icon, at least in the entertainment industry. And I was just watching the interview there and I watch it each night on our show.

And the thing about Eminem is, he's the kind of performer and the kind of person and now the kind of actor, that you somehow cannot take your eyes off him. Because what you know about this guy, is you're throwing the word hate around and he throws "f" word all over the place and you hear about his lyrics and it's bad for kids and this, that and the other thing and then when you're up next to him and you see him in this movie and you see him in person, he's kind of the same guy, but he's so fascinating that you're just completely brought into his world sitting next to him.

BROWN: Can he act?

O'BRIEN: Yes, he can act. And let me tell you something, people are going -- the doubters are going to be sorry they doubted him. I've never seen so many good reviews for a movie. This movie has been long anticipated. Not really talked about, more of a Curtis Hansen movie, you know, from "L.A. Confidential" and that sort of thing. But again, when this kid comes on the screen, you are riveted. And I said before, I kind of feel sorry for the other actors in the movie, all of whom are good -- because when he's on the screen and he's in every scene, you can't stop watching him. This guy's got it.

BROWN: Will the movie play with, let's say, for examples 53- year-old white guys who live in New York and do television programs or is it a movie for kids?

O'BRIEN: Well, it's a movie about hope, for one thing. It's about getting out of 8 Mile, getting of the neighborhood, getting out of the hood, about finding something else to do but stand on street corners.

So, in that regard, it's an American movie. It's sort of a -- god, I'm going to use this word with Eminem -- a Horatio Alger story. Getting off the streets and doing something with yourself.

So, in that regard, I would think that almost everybody would be interested in the movie. If you like Eminem, you're going to want to see this movie because -- and by the way, the movie CD sold more than 700,000 copies this week. It's going to probably be a million before the week is over. So a lot of people do like Eminem.

So if you like him and like his rapping, you're going to find a lot about how it started, the genesis of how a guy like this came up, the rap wars of the mid 90's. And that part it have is fascinating.

But I think the most fascinating part is that this is, as I said, a controversial icon who Monday morning will have the No. 1 movie in the country, probably $35, $40 million and he'll be on his way to a tremendous acting career.

BROWN: Does he remind you of anyone as an actor? Is he James Dean?

O'BRIEN: He reminds me more -- that's a good one, by the way. He reminds me a little more though of Elvis Presley. He has that sort of innocence. When Elvis came on screen, a lot of people said the same thing that you're saying, Aaron -- can he act? And when Elvis came on screen -- albeit the parts weren't all that great for Elvis, they weren't so very deep, were they?

BROWN: Really, you think not, huh?

O'BRIEN: But he had that innocence about him that made him go on and make all those movies. He was back -- the people came back for more. So I think, yes, a little James Dean, a little more Elvis and I think musically he's becoming more and more like John Lennon. That he has become a spokesman for a generation and will continue to do so.

BROWN: About a minute. Can you imagine him -- he plays Eminem in this essentially, doesn't he?

O'BRIEN: Yes, essentially he does.

BROWN: OK -- can he play anything else?

O'BRIEN: Yes, I think he can. I really do, and I don't even think I'm going out on a limb here. I mean, I think you'll e-mail me, as we do every other night or so, and say you were right. I think the guy has got it. He is one of these guys -- I don't think he is a flash in the pan. And I'm not putting my career on the line or anything here, I think it is going to happen.

I think this guy is an incredible actor, and I think if they had the guts, there might even be an Oscar nomination.

BROWN: If we had more time, I'd ask you for the inside scoop on Winona Ryder, but son of a gun, we're out of time, Pat.

O'BRIEN: Son of a gun, you're right.

BROWN: We'll have to do that by e-mail. Thank you, sir. Pat O'Brien from "Access Hollywood" with us tonight.

Still ahead on NEWSNIGHT, the vote to decide who owns a piece of the rock. We're right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: OK. Finally from us tonight, some fresh election results, not from a late reporting precinct in this country, but from one of the most famous specks of land anywhere in the world, the rock of Gibraltar.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN (voice-over): This spur at the end of Europe's spine is physically attached to Spain, but has belonged to Great Britain for 300 years, and has been coveted and fought over for a lot longer than that, just because it sits like a natural watch tower over the only sea passage between the Atlantic and the Mediterranean.

So there was, as we said, this referendum on Gibraltar today asking voters whether, perhaps, it might be nice if Great Britain and Spain could simply share control of this famous stronghold, bury the hatchet, no hard feelings, a "jolly good show" as they say in England, and "ole" as they say in Spain.

The answer, as they say in New York, "No way, Jose." The people of the rock gave Spain a piece of their minds. We are British, they said. Always have been and always will be.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don't want any so-called deals or nonsense. The Spanish are very bad towards us. They do us a lot of harm, and if this were Spanish, it would be hell.

BROWN: So there you have it, 1,400 miles from Buckingham Palace, twice the size of Central Park, this royal throne of kings, this sceptered isle, this little world, this earth, this realm, this -- Gibraltar.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: We should book that guy from that spot on the program. He'd be good.

Glad you were with us tonight. See you again tomorrow. Good night for all of us at NEWSNIGHT.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





to Reap Rewards of Republican Powers>


Aired November 7, 2002 - 22:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, HOST: Good evening, again, everyone. We don't usually begin the program with condolences, but it seemed to fit tonight. They go out to the people in the state of Maryland. It has to do with an announcement today by the attorney general that Virginia will be the first place that's going to try the sniper suspects, even though Maryland lost more people than any other state and probably has the best claim on going first.
Six people who deserve justice in that state, whose families deserve a chance to face these suspects. Now this doesn't mean they won't get their chance, but it's anyone's guess at what point exactly that will happen. And there's also a certain intangible that's lost when the first trial happens somewhere else.

The reason behind the decision is simple, and the attorney general made no bones about hiding it. Virginia has and will impose the death penalty; Maryland, maybe not. This all strikes us, as "The New York Times" put it, like the justice of Alice in Wonderland. Sentence first, the queen says, verdict afterwards.

This is not about opposing the death penalty. It just seems like with the law you don't start with the punishment and work your way back. There's no justice in that. We hope Maryland -- and we especially hope the families there -- get their justice some time down the road soon.

On we go with The Whip, beginning once again with politics and the president. His agenda now after Tuesday's election. Our Senior White House Correspondent John King at the White House -- John, start us off with a headline.

JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, the president was already in a great mood earlier today, getting ready for a news conference to talk about the historic Republican gains in the elections, then a phone call from the French President, Jacques Chirac. The two leaders cut a deal on the long awaited United Nations Security Council resolution on Iraq. Suffice it to say the president thinks he's having a pretty good week.

BROWN: I bet he does. John, back to you in a moment. I have a feeling you just stole Richard Roth's headline. Richard is over at the U.N. tonight, and more on the resolution. Richard, think quickly.

RICHARD ROTH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes -- well, anyway, the United States no doubt will be screaming, "thank god it's Friday," because the U.S. has its Iraq resolution and finally the votes to approve it -- Aaron.

BROWN: Richard, I'll give you John's phone number later.

A fascinating story about a scenic spot in South America and its connection to terror and terrorists. Mike Boettcher has been working on that for a while -- Mike, give us your headline tonight.

MIKE BOETTCHER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, we've been told to look out for terrorism in the far East, terrorism in Western Europe. Later in the show we're going to tell you why you're going to have to look out for terrorist attacks coming from the south -- Aaron.

BROWN: Mike, thank you very much. Back to you and the rest shortly.

Also coming up, someone who knows the workings of presidential politics better than almost anyone we know, David Gergen, a veteran of more than a few administrations, Democrat and Republican.

A story tonight from Serena Atal (ph) on what will make you understand better the phrase "scared straight." This comes from an old drug used in a new way; a terrible addiction that's claiming a lot of young people and, of course, threatening to get worse. I hazard a guess that this is the first time I have ever said Eminem on NEWSNIGHT. They had to tell me it wasn't the candy. We'll talk about is new movie, "Eight Mile," with the host of "Access Hollywood," the premier entertainment journalist in America, Pat O'Brien tonight.

And if we could talk about the midterm elections for 29 hours, we can at least give this political story one minute and 15 seconds. A big fight where there has been fighting for centuries, which flag should fly at the Rock of Gibraltar. All that and more in the hour ahead.

We start tonight with how the president plans to use the new political power that voters gave him on Tuesday. Two days later, the accomplishment is no less historic and no less earth shaking, at least in the political sense. But the president and the political people who advise them are not fools. They get that to accomplish what they hope to accomplish they still need more votes in the Senate, where 60 is often a farm more important number than 51.

So the president is talking softly and moderately, even has he governs, and he has from the start conservatively. Today he met with reporters in his first full-fledged news conference since last July. We begin tonight with our Senior White House Correspondent, John King.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KING (voice-over): The president was humble, yet ambitious in discussing his post-election domestic priorities, forceful and stern when the issue turned to Iraq.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The debate about whether we're going to deal with Saddam Hussein is over.

KING: Confident he finally has a deal at the United Nations Security Council, Mr. Bush made clear what will happen if Iraq interferes with new weapons inspections.

BUSH: The United States, with friends, will move swiftly with force to do the job. You don't have to worry about that.

KING: It was the president's first public appearance since the historic Republican gains in the midterm elections, and he stuck to the no gloating edict he has given his staff.

BUSH: Some people have given me credit. The credit belongs to the people in the field.

KING: But Mr. Bush made clear he expects quick action on his priorities: creating a new department of homeland security and terrorism insurance for stalled construction projects are the president's goals for next week's lame duck session of Congress. Next year, Bush's wish list is far more ambitious, making his ten-year tax cut permanent, quick action on judicial nominees, and a prescription drug benefit for elderly Americans.

BUSH: If there is a mandate in any election, at least in this one it's that people want something to get done.

KING: Democrats say losing the elections doesn't mean they won't aggressively challenge the president's agenda.

REP. MARTIN FROST (D), TEXAS: We have sharp differences with this administration on economic issues. We want a real prescription drug plan. We want to put people to work.

KING: And there is pressure from conservatives, too. Many want Mr. Bush to seize the moment and push the Republican-controlled Congress to allow some Social Security taxes to be invested in the stock market and adopt new abortion restrictions. Mr. Bush is noncommittal.

BUSH: Well I appreciate all the advice I'm getting. My job is to set priorities and get them done.

KING: No gloating, but it is clear the president is in high spirits.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KING: There was, of course, one question about his own reelection campaign two years down the road. Mr. Bush said he wouldn't discuss that, not even commit to running, saying he's still recovering from this week's election. But he did say, and there should be no doubt, that Dick Cheney, in the president's view, is doing a superb job and will without question once again be his running mate -- Aaron.

BROWN: John, the president, even when he was the governor of Texas, has a governing philosophy that has been, take a few issues, not a long agenda, but a few issues and get those done. Anything that happened Tuesday changed that philosophy?

KING: No. Many conservatives wish it had, but the president was quite clear today. He will do this one step at a time, one or two issues at a time. The lame duck session first, homeland security and terrorism insurance. Look for a new economic package in the state of the union address. The president will focus first in the new session on the economy and then go from there.

He is clearly wanting now to send a very bipartisan, very even- tempered message, and he is very resistant, would not even answer directly the abortion question. Some conservatives say go for it all. They said that to Ronald Reagan, too, and they were frustrated. Looks like they'll have to wait a while for this president.

BROWN: John, thank you very much. Senior White House Correspondent John King at the White House tonight.

The president was confident, as you heard, that he'll get a resolution out of the U.N. Security Council, likely as early as tomorrow. It won't be exactly the resolution the president sought seven weeks ago, but it's likely he didn't expect to get it all in the first place, it was a negotiation. A long and difficult one, as it turns out, but after nearly two months of dealing with words large and small, the resolution it seems is now ready.

Here again, CNN's Richard Roth.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE

ROTH (voice-over): Hot off the presses. After weeks of debate, the U.S. resolution on Iraq is expected to be approved tomorrow by the Security Council, allowing U.N. weapons inspectors to return to Iraq. Diplomats say the U.S. and Russian ambassadors may have a deal after assurances from Washington and London that they would return to the Security Council should violations be reported.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We got explanations that neither of the co- sponsors interprets the language as containing automatic use of force.

ROTH: Earlier in the day, France dropped its objections over hidden trigger language and will vote the U.S. way. What broke the log jam for the veto-carrying council nations?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The four, 11 and 12 become a clearer nexus of paragraphs than with the word all.

ROTH: No matter the jargon, Iraq will have some simple deadlines to understand, seven days to accept the terms of the resolution, and 30 days to turn over all data on weapons of mass destruction.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROTH: And, of course, Baghdad has said it has no weapons of mass destruction but indicates it will cooperate with the returning inspectors. Syria has not indicated how it will vote at the Security Council on Friday. It may abstain or not even take part, or, surprisingly, go along in Council unity 15 to nothing -- Aaron.

BROWN: Does it matter what Syria does here? You can't kill the deal, correct?

ROTH: No. It is the main Arab country on the panel and the Arab world would be outraged on any military assault on Iraq, but the vote would not stop this resolution from going forward.

BROWN: And assuming for a moment this all goes as scripted now, how soon do those weapons inspectors go?

ROTH: They would start setting up a headquarters seven to ten days after tomorrow's passage of the resolution. And then 23 after that the Iraqis turn over weapons of mass destruction, and then 15 days after that -- so 45 days, Aaron, from the resolution tomorrow. You can expect full-fledged inspections going in.

BROWN: Richard, thank you. It's a long seven weeks of working this story. Richard Roth over at the U.N. tonight.

On to other things. A tug of war over the sniper suspects ended today. The federal government dropping its case against the two, paving the way for a traveling road show of trials beginning in northern Virginia, where justice is swift and the death penalty upon conviction more certain. That was the main development in the sniper case today, but by no means the only one. Here's CNN's Kelli Arena.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT: Alleged snipers John Allen Muhammad and John Lee Malvo are now in state custody in Virginia. The state is second only to Texas in death penalty executions and also allows the executions of minors.

JOHN ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL: We believe that the first prosecutions should occur in those jurisdictions that provide the best law, the best facts and the best range of available penalties.

ARENA: Muhammad and Malvo will be tried in separate counties. The attorney general would not say why. When asked if it's based on which suspect fired the shot in each case, prosecutors would only say the decision was evidence driven.

MARK HULKOWER, FMR. FEDERAL PROSECUOTR: Typically where you have multiple defendants involved in a case, here you have two people involved in murders, typically they're tried together. It's unusual that they would separate them as they did here.

ARENA: The 17-year-old, Malvo, will be tried first in Fairfax County. Linda Franklin, an FBI analyst, was shot and killed outside a Home Depot there. The case will be prosecuted by Robert Horan. He's been on the job nearly 36 years and won the death penalty for Mir Amil Kadsi (ph), the Pakistani who killed three people outside the CIA in 1993. ROBERT HORAN, VIRGINIA COMMONWEALTH'S ATTORNEY: I'm not at liberty to discuss the evidence with anybody. That's for the courtroom and that's where we'll put it on.

ARENA: The other suspect, John Allen Muhammad, will be tried first in Prince William County. Dean Harold Meyers was shot and killed at a Sunoco gas station there. Paul Ebert is the prosecutor in Prince William, which has handled more death penalty cases than any other county in Virginia.

PAUL EBERT, VIRGINIA COMMONWEALTH'S ATTORNEY: The death penalty is reserved for the worst of the worst. And I think from the evidence that all of you are aware of over the last month or so, these folks qualify.

ARENA: Police say they've linked another fatal shooting to Muhammad and Malvo. This one in Georgia. Investigators say a handgun used to kill a man outside an Atlanta liquor store on September 21 has been linked to the sniper suspects.

(on camera): Police in Montgomery, Alabama found that gun near a shooting there that they believe Muhammad and Malvo committed.

Kelli Arena, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, top Democrat in the House steps down. We'll talk with David Gergen about what lies ahead for both the Democrats and President Bush and the Republicans. That and much more as NEWSNIGHT continues back home in New York.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: More on Tuesday's Republican victory, Tuesday's Democratic defeat. Someone once said Republicans handle adversity by circling the wagons. Democrats, on the other hand, seem to be circling the firing squad or falling on swords.

Our friend and CNN political analyst, Bill Schneider, says his favorite part of elections are recriminations. He's having a grand time tonight. House Minority Leader Dick Gephardt became the first big name casualty today. CNN's Candy Crowley sat down with him earlier this evening.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): There are many good reasons Richard Gephardt should no longer lead House Democrats, but it boils down to this, it was time for him to go.

REP. DICK GEPHARDT (D), MINORITY LEADER: I think we need change. We need to look in new directions. We need somebody else to carry the baton for a while.

CROWLEY: The baton has always been burdensome. Wednesday morning it must have been unbearable.

GEPHARDT: I feel responsible. I got a sign behind me on this desk that says "the buck stops here." I'm a Harry Truman fan.

CROWLEY: It is also true that some Democrats were ready to push him. He got out before they started to throw the knives, said a colleague. When Gephardt saved him the trouble, his colleague said nice things and started to fight for his job. Texas Congressman Martin Frost was first in line.

FROST: I believe our party must occupy the center if we are to be successful, if we are to come back in the majority and not move farther to the left.

CROWLEY: Farther to the left is California Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi, enrolled in the school of thought that Democrats are in trouble because they've abandoned basic liberal principles and turned off their base. And that's the problem with being party leader. You have to figure out a way to speak for everybody and, in the process, you lose your voice.

GEPHARDT: The other thing is, when you're a leader here, you never have time to step back and say how should we do this? Where does the country need to go? What is the future on this issue and how do we get something that is new thinking, value-oriented, but exciting out in front of people?

CROWLEY: Hmm. Let's read this tea leaf.

(on camera): I've covered a lot of presidential campaigns. That's presidential talk.

GEPHARDT: Well, it may be, but it also may be somebody who has invested 25 years of experience here. And I think I have some experience that I can bring to important issues that I care an awful lot about. I want everybody in this country to be covered by healthcare.

CROWLEY (voice-over): I rest my case. Many of those around Gephardt are sure he'll make a run for the presidency. The question is whether he got out one election night too late.

Candy Crowley, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Well, David Gergen needs little introduction here. We're always fortunate when he has a few moments to come by and talk politics and government with us, and he's here tonight. It's nice to see you, sir.

DAVID GERGEN, FMR. WHITE HOUSE ADVISER: Thanks, Aaron.

BROWN: A quick one. Were you surprised by the breadth of the Republican rout on Tuesday? GERGEN: Absolutely. I was one of many who did not see it coming. I did not know Tuesday morning how it was going to turn out, but I never imagined Republicans would do as well as they would. And, you know, President Bush and his people are right to claim a lot of credit for it. It's historic.

If you go back all the way to Lincoln, only one other president has gained in the House and Senate, and that was Franklin Roosevelt. And what's important about that, of course, was that Roosevelt seized upon that opportunity to launch a second new deal. And now I think we see in George W. Bush somebody who is about to launch a second Bush presidency that will be much more aggressive and more conservative than his first.

BROWN: I don't want to linger on this point, but was it, in your view, an ideological victory or just a strange confluence of moments? 9/11 on one end, the prospect of war on the other, and a feeling to support the commander in chief above all else?

GERGEN: Well, I don't think there's any question that 9/11 gave George Bush a halo that, without that, the Republicans would not have won this. But I do think that it's an interesting coming together, conflation, as people call it, of his ideas. He went on the campaign hard on taxes, on the issue of the war, on judges. And he seemed to turn a lot of states at the last minute.

But it's also true organizationally the Republicans' Karl Rove just outsmarted and outplayed the Democrats. Karl Rove is a man of history, a man you'll appreciate. Now he came in thinking he was the Mark Hanna (ph) to McKinley and he's going to build a new Republican majority.

Mark Hanna (ph) was this legendary kingmaker late 19th, early 20th century. He was a major, major figure in American politics. And Karl Rove is living up to that tradition right now. You know, the money they raised, how they recruited the candidates, the message they put together completely outclassed the Democrats.

BROWN: And I thought -- and then we'll move off this -- how they -- you know, I think they learned a lesson -- they've learned many lessons from Bush 41. But one of the lessons is if you have political capital, you might as well spend it and get out there and use it. And they used the capital the president clearly has pretty well.

GERGEN: Use it or lose it.

BROWN: Yes, it is perishable. On the other side, the Democrats, what are they?

GERGEN: Well, the Democrats are way too dispirited now. Bill Clinton is putting out the message, and I think he's right. And frankly, Bill Clinton's magic with the voters has obviously waned. But he's the most capable strategist in the Democratic Party right now to think a way through this. And he's making the argument, hey, don't get too discouraged. This is really an opportunity to redefine the Democratic Party in a new way. So, you know, these things happen. Of course it's hard. But, hey, Clinton lost in '94, but they thought he was irrelevant. And then he came back and won the presidency and Democrats picked up a couple of years, two elections in a row.

BROWN: It is probably good to remember that politics in this country at this time can move at a kind of lightning speed. You go from an accidental president to a president with extraordinary popularity. You go from an impeached president to one who still can actually win seats in the midterm. It's not an easy game.

GERGEN: It's not an easy game, and the Bush people play for keeps. They know how to use power and they enjoy the exercise of power. And that's why I think he's not going to go to the middle. His rhetoric is going to go to the middle now. He's going to govern to the right. Let's not have any illusions about that.

What's also interesting to me, Aaron, is the Democratic Party has never fully recovered from the time when it was an amalgam of sort of northern liberals and southern conservatives. And once the civil rights movement came along and Lyndon Johnson signed those bills, he told Bill Moyers (ph) then, this is the right thing to do for America, but the south is going to go Republican, and that's what's happened.

And now what you see in the Nancy Pelosi-Martin Frost fight for the leadership, it's those two old wings fighting it out.

BROWN: Let me throw Iraq on the table. The president will tomorrow get much of what he wants from the Security Council it looks like.

GERGEN: And, listen, it's going to be a double win for him this week. Two major wins. Because it's likely he's going to get a unanimous vote now from the Security Council with the French coming aboard. The Russians are still a little edgy, but I think he's going to get it. But it's really important for the country that the Colin Powell approach go to the Congress, go to the U.N., that the president has moved off that hard line, moved to the Congress and has gotten approval on both things.

It's helped him so much, helped the country so much, that it will be seen by the rest of the world now as we approach Iraq, that at least we're doing it within the international body. We're going to do it within the context of international law. And you know, frankly, Colin Powel's been vindicated by doing this, and I think the president is right to move in this direction.

It's a more moderate view, but I think it's greatly strengthened his hand. I continually to believe there is an outside chance that Saddam will disarm voluntarily, he'll back down. The greater likelihood is that there are going to be serious violations and we're still going to be sending our military forces in there, within an international coalition now, sometime in January and February.

BROWN: It's nice to see you. It's been a heck of a week. GERGEN: And you've done a good job with it, Aaron.

BROWN: Thank you. It's nice of you to say. Thank you very much. David Gergen, tonight.

Coming up on NEWSNIGHT, the story of a dangerous new form of pcp that's hitting the streets of America's cities.

Up next, though, a terrorist connection south of the border. This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: We take you now to a spot on the map you may not have even known existed, a frontier. And like many frontiers, this one is exotic, rugged, remote and lawless. If you're a certain kind of tourist, an adventurer, this is the place for you. It is also the place for smugglers, armed dealers and al Qaeda. The report from CNN's Mike Boettcher.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BOETTCHER (voice-over): South Americans call this place the triple border, a tourist haven, the spot where the nations of Argentina, Brazil and Paraguay intersect at one of the natural wonders of the world, Eguazoo (ph) Falls. In counterterrorism circles, it is known as something else, a terrorist haven, a land of porous borders and base for terrorism financing and planning.

Halfway around the world on the wall of a top al Qaeda operative's abandoned house in Kabul, Afghanistan was this: a giant poster of Eguazoo (ph) Falls. CNN has learned from anti-terrorism coalition intelligence sources that several top terrorist operatives recently met in this isolated part of South America. Their purpose, according to those same sources, to plan attacks against U.S. and Israeli targets in the Western Hemisphere.

Two weeks ago, Argentina's security agencies issued a strong terrorist warning. Miguel Toma runs the Argentine equivalent of the CIA, called Cide (ph).

MIGUEL TOMA, ARGENTINE SECRETARY OF INTELLIGENCE (through translator): We had intelligence that pointed to increased terrorist activity. It's not unrealistic that there could be some action to prevent or to react to an attack on Iraq. So we need to react because of the global conflict.

BOETTCHER : Since 1992, when a terrorist bomb ripped apart the Israeli embassy in Buenos Aires, Argentina has been extremely active investigating global terrorist groups and their connections. Argentine intelligence documents previously obtained by CNN diagram links between mosques and businesses in the triborder region to a laundry list of groups which have claimed credit for terrorist attacks.

Egypt's Gama al Islamia (ph) publicly allied with al Qaeda and Lebanese Hezbollah and Islamic Jihad. All groups identified by the U.S. State Department as terrorist organizations. Additional evidence of a global link, thousands of U.S. dollars marked with stamps from Lebanese currency exchange banks, which Argentine investigators allege was used to finance terrorists in South America. Tens of thousands more in phony $100 bills, and receipts from huge wire transfers made between the triborder areas and the Middle East.

Argentina's top counterterrorist cop on the triborder sees a variety of terrorist groups cooperating here because of a common enemy: the United States and Israel.

ROBERTO ONTIVERTO, ARGENTINE COUNTERTERRORISM POLICE CHIEF (through translator): Yes, we have found the collaboration. In the same way that legal organizations need to collaborate and share information, terrorist organizations need to have that same collaboration, whether it be in training, materials, people or information.

BOETTCHER: Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad and al Qaeda, all groups that Argentine authorities are tracking in their region have significant ties to this man, Imad Mugniyah, photographed here in Lebanon about eight years ago. He is walking with Hezbollah's top leader, Shiek Hassan Nasrallah.

Obtained exclusively by CNN, it is one of the few existing photos of one of Mugniyah, one of the world's most wanted men, suspected of being the mastermind in a long list of attacks against U.S. and Israeli targets over the past 20 years. The 1983 U.S. Marines Beirut barracks bombing and 1992 bombing of the Israeli Embassy in Buenos Aires, just two examples.

Middle East intelligence sources tell CNN Mugniyah uses both Iran and Hezbollah-controlled areas of Lebanon as his bases and from those locations is directing a new terrorist effort in South America, making plans to hit U.S. and Israeli targets in the Americas if the United States attacks Iraq or Israel is drawn into the conflict.

Argentina's spy master Miguel Toma, met recently with his counterparts in Washington about the possibility of a new terrorist offensive launched from South America.

(on camera): Does -- what happens if your region in South America, impact the security in North America?

TOMA (through translator): Absolutely. This is a central theme discussed in recent trips to Washington. There is a direct correlation between terrorism here and the United States.

BOETTCHER (voice-over): Locals here joke there are more spies than tourists in triborder these days.

(on camera): When the war against terrorism was launched after the 9/11 attacks, intelligence agencies from around the world made this place a focus of their attention. But now many of the people that were watching have moved on. (voice-over): Argentina's counterterrorism police assert that terrorist operatives have dispersed east to the remote jungles of Brazil and as well to Brazil's financial Sao Paulo and west to the Chilean free-trade zone city of Akikai, located on the Pacific Coast in Chile's Northern Desert.

We went there to take a look for ourselves. It is a place where money and merchandise move freely, virtually unchecked. Forty-eight false Pakistani passports were recent live seized by police here, believed destined for terrorist use in upcoming attacks.

One year ago U.S. officials request that Chile investigate terrorist activity in Akikai. Jaime Navia is the Chilean judge assigned to write the secret summary.

(on camera): But are these things that Americans should be concerned about?

JUDGE JAIME NAVIA, CHILEAN INVESTIGATING MAGISTRATE (through translator): It's part of the secret summary what you are asking but I can inform you there are many people that appear in the investigation.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BOETTCHER: Now, when the camera was turned off, the judge who did not want to talk about the secret summary said he was very worried about those many people he talked about. Where are they? They've spread out learning from their counterparts in the rest of the world who have also spread out. They are stretching from the eastern jungles of Brazil to the western deserts of Chile and they're going to be very difficult to find -- Aaron.

BROWN: Oddly as you started the report, Mike, it reminded me of the big Mafia meeting in Upstate New York a long time ago.

When we talk about this group of people, how many people are we talking about at these confabs? Are we talking about dozens or a handful?

BOETTCHER: No, no, you're talking about a handful. And they don't want to attract a lot of attention. This meeting had been kept very secret until we were able to uncover it through our intelligence sources in different parts of the world frankly.

And it is the sort of thing that they want to keep very low key. And I'm sure they are not very happy that this meeting is now publicized. The big problem, Aaron, is where are they targeting this? Is it going to be in South America and North America? And we're told when the war on Iraq comes, it could be anywhere in both Americas.

BROWN: A terrific piece of work, Mike. Thank you. Nicely done. Mike Boettcher, investigative reporter out of Atlanta for us.

Later on NEWSNIGHT, we'll talk with our friend Pat O'Brien, the premiere entertainment journalist in the country and the anchor of "Access Hollywood" about a new film called "8 Mile," with the rapper Eminem.

But up next, a new and incredibly dangerous drug. This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: And coming up on NEWSNIGHT, an unbelievably dangerous old drug in a brand-new package. We're right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Some fast moving developments tonight on the investigation of the dreadful bombing blast last month in Bali. Indonesian police have a man in custody who says he took part in the attack. He lead police to a house where they found residue of the explosive used. Police say tonight they expect to make additional arrests shortly. They are also looking into ties between the suspects and a regional terrorist group with connections to al Qaeda.

In Gaza, a Red Cross worker was abducted by four Palestinians and released a short time later. Not a whole lot of detail on this. Sources say the kidnapper's ring leader is a former intelligence officer who abducted three Italian aide workers several months ago.

And off the coast of Scotland, well, these things happen from time to time. A Royal Navy nuclear submarine ran aground during a training exercise. No serious damage except perhaps to British pride.

It may sound like a ridiculous statement, drug dealers using some of the same tools of a buttoned down MBA, but in fact their business does involve creative marketing and this story is in a way about that. An old drug, a really fearsome one from the 70s, repurposed, if you will, to hook a new generation of users.

They call it "wet" or "fry" or "illy" but you would know it as PCP and it's the focus of a "CNN Presents" this weekend with Serena Altschul called "Fried."

We should say some of what you are going to see is a little alarming, which it seems is the point.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SERENA ALTSCHUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You see people come in like this a lot?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh all the time. This is very typical behavior.

ALTSCHUL: Did anybody ask him if he's been (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well I did, but he's not...

ALTSCHUL: Wow, he's really going. She's just giving him a shot.

(voice-over): This emergency room in new haven, Connecticut sees an average of 10 of these patients a week.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People are trying to come out with new improved forms of products no matter what they are. And the same is true in the drug trade. And so if somebody came up with a new method of packaging PCP. They dissolved it in formaldehyde embalming fluid, and I'm not sure how they got the idea but when you heat up the embalming fluid it gives off a pretty pleasant odor. So when you're using it, there's a pleasant odor to it.

ALTSCHUL: How does it make you feel when you smoke it? How's it different from weed?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your body start getting numb. It's a numbness in your body. Good, man.

ALTSCHUL: Kenny and Jean are roommates at a rehab program called New Choices, just outside New Haven. One of their drugs of choice was illy.

ALTSCHUL: When did you first try it? When was your first illy experience?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Beginning in ninth grade.

ALTSCHUL: How old?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 14.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kids younger than my age came up me buying it. Kids 10, 11, 12. Kids my age doing it and I'm like, Whoa, it's getting out of control.

ALTSCHUL: You went to school while you were on it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was stupid. But, in school it was terrible. I just got confused. I didn't know what to do. I went to the bus stop, and I wasn't sure if the bus came already. I wasn't sure if it was a school day. I wasn't sure if it was Saturday. I wasn't sure if it was noon. I didn't know anything. Scared me a little bit so I didn't do that anymore.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Something like 5 percent of illy users will develop a persistent state that's similar to schizophrenia.

ALTSCHUL: Paranoid schizophrenia, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE; Yes, exactly.

ALTSCHUL: Sort of a permanent state.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And it becomes a permanent state. And that can happen even after even just a couple uses. So it's for a lot of reasons, it's a bad drug.

(END VIDEOTAPE) BROWN: Bad drug it is. You can see the hour, called "Fried," "CNN PRESENTS," Sunday 8:00 p.m. Eastern here on CNN. And where else would "CNN PRESENTS" be?

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, Eminem and Pat O'Brien. There's two guys with a lot in common. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: I don't want to make this too personal, but I guess I feel a little left out because, as far as I can tell, Eminem is not angry at me.

He seems pretty angry at just about everyone else, including his ex-wife, his mother, gay people, other white rappers and we stress this is a very abbreviated list. It's possible he'll be mad at me by the end of this. We'll see.

The rapper has a movie coming out that's loosely based on his life, growing up and getting angry in Detroit. It's called "8 Miles." He's given only one interview to promote the movie. He gave it to Pat O'Brien, who else? The host of "Access Hollywood." We'll see a less angry Eminem when he was asked about his scrapes with the law.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAT O'BRIEN, "ACCESS HOLLYWOOD" HOST: What's scared you the most and what's changed you the most?

EMINEM, RAPPER: My criminal cases scared me the most.

O'BRIEN: Possible jail. That scare you?

EMINEM: Yes. That scared me the most. It's no joke when you're standing up there. And I'm sure, you know, it's been shown many times on TV. You can see -- you -- it humbles you very quickly. I walked into that courtroom, like, all I could think about was, What am I going to say to Haile? Because Haile, still to this day, knows nothing about it. She does not know that I possibly could have been taken away from her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: That's Eminem and that's Pat O'Brien. Mr. O'Brien joins us from Los Angeles. Nice to see you, Pat.

O'BRIEN: I have to tell you, it's so exciting to see that "Access Hollywood" logo on the show that I'm addicted to late at night here on CNN. So Aaron, nice to see you and thanks for having me on.

BROWN; Thanks for coming on.

Did you like Eminem? I mean, here's a guy that's got a major reputation as violent, angry, hates women, hates this, hates that. Did you come away from the interview liking him? O'BRIEN: Yes, I mean, I think -- you know, here's a guy who's probably the most controversial icon, at least in the entertainment industry. And I was just watching the interview there and I watch it each night on our show.

And the thing about Eminem is, he's the kind of performer and the kind of person and now the kind of actor, that you somehow cannot take your eyes off him. Because what you know about this guy, is you're throwing the word hate around and he throws "f" word all over the place and you hear about his lyrics and it's bad for kids and this, that and the other thing and then when you're up next to him and you see him in this movie and you see him in person, he's kind of the same guy, but he's so fascinating that you're just completely brought into his world sitting next to him.

BROWN: Can he act?

O'BRIEN: Yes, he can act. And let me tell you something, people are going -- the doubters are going to be sorry they doubted him. I've never seen so many good reviews for a movie. This movie has been long anticipated. Not really talked about, more of a Curtis Hansen movie, you know, from "L.A. Confidential" and that sort of thing. But again, when this kid comes on the screen, you are riveted. And I said before, I kind of feel sorry for the other actors in the movie, all of whom are good -- because when he's on the screen and he's in every scene, you can't stop watching him. This guy's got it.

BROWN: Will the movie play with, let's say, for examples 53- year-old white guys who live in New York and do television programs or is it a movie for kids?

O'BRIEN: Well, it's a movie about hope, for one thing. It's about getting out of 8 Mile, getting of the neighborhood, getting out of the hood, about finding something else to do but stand on street corners.

So, in that regard, it's an American movie. It's sort of a -- god, I'm going to use this word with Eminem -- a Horatio Alger story. Getting off the streets and doing something with yourself.

So, in that regard, I would think that almost everybody would be interested in the movie. If you like Eminem, you're going to want to see this movie because -- and by the way, the movie CD sold more than 700,000 copies this week. It's going to probably be a million before the week is over. So a lot of people do like Eminem.

So if you like him and like his rapping, you're going to find a lot about how it started, the genesis of how a guy like this came up, the rap wars of the mid 90's. And that part it have is fascinating.

But I think the most fascinating part is that this is, as I said, a controversial icon who Monday morning will have the No. 1 movie in the country, probably $35, $40 million and he'll be on his way to a tremendous acting career.

BROWN: Does he remind you of anyone as an actor? Is he James Dean?

O'BRIEN: He reminds me more -- that's a good one, by the way. He reminds me a little more though of Elvis Presley. He has that sort of innocence. When Elvis came on screen, a lot of people said the same thing that you're saying, Aaron -- can he act? And when Elvis came on screen -- albeit the parts weren't all that great for Elvis, they weren't so very deep, were they?

BROWN: Really, you think not, huh?

O'BRIEN: But he had that innocence about him that made him go on and make all those movies. He was back -- the people came back for more. So I think, yes, a little James Dean, a little more Elvis and I think musically he's becoming more and more like John Lennon. That he has become a spokesman for a generation and will continue to do so.

BROWN: About a minute. Can you imagine him -- he plays Eminem in this essentially, doesn't he?

O'BRIEN: Yes, essentially he does.

BROWN: OK -- can he play anything else?

O'BRIEN: Yes, I think he can. I really do, and I don't even think I'm going out on a limb here. I mean, I think you'll e-mail me, as we do every other night or so, and say you were right. I think the guy has got it. He is one of these guys -- I don't think he is a flash in the pan. And I'm not putting my career on the line or anything here, I think it is going to happen.

I think this guy is an incredible actor, and I think if they had the guts, there might even be an Oscar nomination.

BROWN: If we had more time, I'd ask you for the inside scoop on Winona Ryder, but son of a gun, we're out of time, Pat.

O'BRIEN: Son of a gun, you're right.

BROWN: We'll have to do that by e-mail. Thank you, sir. Pat O'Brien from "Access Hollywood" with us tonight.

Still ahead on NEWSNIGHT, the vote to decide who owns a piece of the rock. We're right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: OK. Finally from us tonight, some fresh election results, not from a late reporting precinct in this country, but from one of the most famous specks of land anywhere in the world, the rock of Gibraltar.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN (voice-over): This spur at the end of Europe's spine is physically attached to Spain, but has belonged to Great Britain for 300 years, and has been coveted and fought over for a lot longer than that, just because it sits like a natural watch tower over the only sea passage between the Atlantic and the Mediterranean.

So there was, as we said, this referendum on Gibraltar today asking voters whether, perhaps, it might be nice if Great Britain and Spain could simply share control of this famous stronghold, bury the hatchet, no hard feelings, a "jolly good show" as they say in England, and "ole" as they say in Spain.

The answer, as they say in New York, "No way, Jose." The people of the rock gave Spain a piece of their minds. We are British, they said. Always have been and always will be.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don't want any so-called deals or nonsense. The Spanish are very bad towards us. They do us a lot of harm, and if this were Spanish, it would be hell.

BROWN: So there you have it, 1,400 miles from Buckingham Palace, twice the size of Central Park, this royal throne of kings, this sceptered isle, this little world, this earth, this realm, this -- Gibraltar.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: We should book that guy from that spot on the program. He'd be good.

Glad you were with us tonight. See you again tomorrow. Good night for all of us at NEWSNIGHT.

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