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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown

Lott's Words Still Drawing Criticism After Apology; Scuds Intercepted Hidden Aboard Ship From North Korea

Aired December 10, 2002 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


AARON BROWN, HOST: And good evening again, everyone.
So what exactly was Trent Lott thinking? Most of you know this, but the Senate majority leader to be was talking the other day at Strom Thurmond's 100th birthday and noted that Mississippi, his state, voted for Thurmond's segregationist party in 1948, and added if the country had done the same, "We wouldn't have had all these problems over all these years either." What problems was he referring to exactly?

Now, at first the senator said he was joking. And then about the time we were going on the air last night, he issued an apology, and that is good. All people say dumb things from time to time, and when they do, they should apologize. But it does make you wonder, doesn't it?

What was it he thought was so funny in making that joke? I don't have a clue what the senator believes in his most quiet thoughts. Only he knows that. I do know that most African-Americans think the Republican Party is not their party. That despite the fact that two of the most important players in the country, the secretary of state and the national security adviser, are African-Americans brought to the government by a Republican president.

Today, among the loudest voices condemning Senator Lott's little slipup came from conservatives, the "Wall Street Journal," The Weekly Standard," the Op-Ed pages of the "New York Post." They all seemed to get it. It's hard to get African-Americans to think your party is serious about race if it still makes loving jokes about the segregated past. We'll have more on the Lott story a little later in the program, but we begin with a story that broke early this evening.

A ship intercepted, and the discovery of what's on board. Kris Osborn is at the Pentagon for us tonight. Kris, a headline from you, please.

KRIS OSBORN, CNN HEADLINE NEWS ANCHOR: Well Aaron, U.S. military officials tell CNN they have discovered at least 12 intact scud missiles aboard what's being described as a stateless vessel making its way from North Korea to the waters off Yemen -- Aaron.

BROWN: Kris, thank you. Back to you at the top tonight.

And the reaction from the White House, too, now in "The Whip." Frank Buckley is there, so Frank, the headline from you.

FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATONAL CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, the White House is closely monitoring this situation. They say it is a situation of great concern. But they are also pleased with how the intelligence came together, how the ship was interdicted. As one senior administration official put it, at least on this score, this is certainly a good win -- Aaron.

BROWN: Frank, thank you. Back to you, too, in a moment.

Also coming up on the program tonight, what's behind a truly alarming rise in the cases of children getting autism? Many of their parents think childhood vaccines could be the blame, including at least one grandparent. Congressman Dan Burton of Illinois, we'll talk with him in a little bit. We'll also take a careful look what science says on this vaccine question.

We'll have a bit more on what former President Jimmy Carter said as he accepted his Nobel Peace Prize today. It had some sharp edges to it directed at the current White House and its approach involving Iraq.

And their news tonight comes from Cincinnati, where their own baseball legend might, just might be getting the reprieve they've been hoping for, for a very long time. Segment seven, their news on Pete Rose. All of that in the hour ahead.

We begin with the ship at sea, the missiles on it, and the drama that's now unfolding off the coast of Yemen. It is hard to know precisely what to make of it just yet, but easy to imagine the possibilities. A ship apparently from North Korea loaded with scud missiles on its way into a region where thousands of American soldiers are now operating.

We don't want to get too far ahead of things, but it's pretty clear the intelligence community shares the concern. They've been tracking the ship ever since it left port. So we begin back at the Pentagon and CNN's Kris Osborn, who's been monitoring developments there tonight. Kris, good evening.

OSBORN: Good evening to you, Aaron. Well certainly sharing the concern, as you mentioned, is very significantly what's transpiring at this hour at the Pentagon. Now the ship is currently about 200 miles southeast of Yemen. It is believed to have begun in North Korea, described as a stateless vessel, meaning it does not have sufficient paperwork on the specific authority of the North Korean government, at least as far as what intelligence sources know at this point.

Initially, the ship was intercepted yesterday by a Spanish authority, who then boarded the ship, looked at boards of concrete in the bottom of the ship, found materials used to make weapons underneath, at which point U.S. military explosives experts were called in to then investigate, at which point then it was confirmed that, indeed, at least 12 scud missiles intact were on board the ship. The ship is currently still being stabilized out at sea with these U.S. military explosives experts. Also, Spanish officials are telling CNN that the crew was made up of 21 North Koreans. Also, the ship will be escorted once it is believed to be stable back to Bahrain and the U.S. naval base there in the Persian Gulf. Of course, one of the locations of the fifth fleet.

Big question now, of course, is who was interested in these scud missiles? Authorities believe at this hour they're 99 percent sure that the vessel was headed toward Yemen. Additionally, what the U.S. intelligence sources are looking into right now is something that's called due diligence. They will be tracing the history and pattern of this ship and where it may have docked in at port, so as to gain any additional information that might help their investigation.

Scud missiles, of course, widely known many so many, used by President Saddam Hussein in the Gulf War. They don't have a whole lot of accuracy. But there are many different kinds of them. Some of them have a range of about 185 miles. They can carry a 220-pound pay load, and their target accuracy is about a kilometer or so.

So the one that hit U.S. military barracks during the Gulf War widely regarded as a lucky strike. A big question now, of course, were these bound for Yemen? If so, what might that mean in terms of the threats at sea? And again, this was a ship that U.S. intelligence had been monitoring, of course given the suspicions about both North Korea and proliferation -- Aaron.

BROWN: When people at the Pentagon say they are 99 percent sure the ship was headed for Yemen, are they saying they were 99 percent sure that the scud missiles were headed for the government of Yemen?

OSBORN: Well, that raises a very significant point. Because, of course, the administration is very careful to praise Yemeni cooperation in the war on terrorism. Yemen, of course, the ancestral home of bin Laden. And when it comes to particularly who may have ordered or who may be seeking these scud missiles, that is exactly what they're trying to figure out. They may very well have been on board without everyone perhaps being cognizant of the fact that they were there -- Aarong.

BROWN: Well, we'll wait and see as we get more on this, Kris. Thank you. Kris Osborn at the Pentagon tonight.

OSBORN: Thank you.

BROWN: The White House makes no secret that it views North Korea with the utmost suspicion. The president's national security adviser put it simply when asked earlier tht year. "North Korea," she said, "is willing to sell missiles to just about anyone who will buy." It's a belief that only deepened since then. For the latest, we go to the White House to get the White House reaction. CNN's Frank Buckley is there for us. Frank, good evening again.

BUCKLEY: Good evening, Aaron. Condoleezza Rice also said that North Korea was stocking much of the rest of the world with ballistic missiles. She even cited the fact that North Korea has glossy brochures in which it advertising these ballistic missiles. The White House is concerned about this situation. They are monitoring it closely. This is not the first time that North Korea has tried to sell scud missile parts in this part of the word. Just in August, a North Korean company was sanctioned by the U.S. for attempting to sell such parts to Yemen.

During the Clinton administration, this same North Korean company was sanctioned by the U.S. for providing parts in Iran. And again, this is the same North Korea that just recently admitted that it is developing nuclear weapons despite the fact that it said it would not in a 1994 agreement that provided oil in exchange for stopping this program.

We're told that next week Richard Armitage, the deputy undersecretary of state, will be going to the region and he'll specifically be talking to China to see if China can exert some influence over North Korea in this area -- Aaron.

BROWN: Have the North Koreans ever agreed not to sell scud missiles or scud missile parts? I mean, there are countries all over the world, including the U.S. government, that's selling military equipment to all sorts of countries.

BUCKLEY: Right. And what it violates, however, are international agreements on proliferation of these kinds of missiles. But the bottom line is, you make a good point, Aaron, that these sanctions that the U.S. puts out against this particle North Korean company, don't really mean a lot, especially given the fact that this company doesn't do any business with the U.S. And it prohibits this company from doing business with the U.S.

BROWN: And the same question essentially that I asked Kris with this twist. Is anyone where you are, anyone at the White House, suggesting where or who was the intended source? Who was going to get these missiles? And is anyone suggesting they might have found their way to Iraq?

BUCKLEY: Well, on the Iraq question, U.S. officials are saying they strongly believe that these were not headed to Iraq. That they could have -- there's a strong possibility that they were headed to Yemen. But even if they were headed to Yemen, at least publicly they're saying they don't believe Yemen intended to use these scud missiles in any sort of terrorist activity.

Perhaps for defense, perhaps for show in the region, to show strength. But they don't think that if they were headed to Yemen that they were to be used for terrorist purposes.

BROWN: OK, Frank, thank you. Frank Buckley is at the White House tonight. Thank you.

Retired General Don Shepperd joins us now. He is in Qatar and he can give us hopefully more on this. Just your quick take, Don, on this. Why would the Yemenis, if that's who was going to get them, want these missiles? MAJ. GEN. DON SHEPPERD, U.S. AIR FORCE (RET.): Well, as Frank said, the only reason the Yemenis would want the missiles would be for status in the area of self-defense. Now this smacks to me of al Qaeda. The other state actors in the area don't need it. It doesn't make sense to me that Iraq would be trying to get them.

The thing that's bothersome, Aaron, on this one, is the fact that there had to be a lot of people complicit in this. It takes for a big missile like this 35 feet, almost 14,000 pounds. It takes a big ship. It takes big cranes to get it off that ship.

You've got to move it out of the port area in something and then get it through check points to get it to a hiding area. We're shaking our heads here trying to figure this one out. It would make a good movie or a good Tom Clancy novel.

BROWN: Well, maybe that's why the intelligence was on it so early, because these things aren't that easy to move along. Let's just play with this idea -- we can't support it necessarily at this point -- that these were headed for al Qaeda. This is pretty -- even though there are low level missiles, it's pretty sophisticated stuff to launch them, isn't it?

SHEPPERD: Yeah, it really is. You've got to maintain these missiles. They're heavy, they're big, they have to be maintained. They're not very accurate.

If you've got 12 of them, probably a good percentage of them wouldn't launch. Others would go errant en route, and others would hit within a kilometer or so of the target. So having 12 missiles is not a big white knuckler. On the other hand, if al Qaeda got them in the area, you can see them launching them from Somalia or perhaps northern Yemen and hitting some of the southern bases in Saudi Arabia, Oman or the UAE, even in Qatar.

It would be a victory, but certainly not something that would stop a U.S. military asault on Iraq, Aaron.

BROWN: Would simply -- well, I guess the question is, how easy are they to hide? I don't mean on the ship, but once they're off loaded? Because it seems to me the U.S. government talks all the time about we spotted this scud missile location and that one. So they're not that easy to hide are they?

SHEPPERD: No, they're not that easy to hide at all. Again, they're a big missile and you've got to have a lot of people involved in this. And, as we've seen in Yemen, the CIA certainly has been watching with their predators in Yemen, because they fired one and knocked out some top al Qaeda leaders.

So this, again, is a real head shaker of why anyone in this area from al Qaeda would think they could get them and hide them and keep them secret. As I look at a map, the only places that you can fire these from and hit anything of interest would be -- really northern Yemen would be the place that they would go. And again, that's the stronghold of a lot of al Qaeda in that area. There and Somalia are the only two places in that area that they could hide, and the only places with ports that could get them off the ship.

So first reports are almost all wrong. And speculation like mine is even dumber probably. But we're all shaking our heads and waiting to hear what the intelligence community says, Aaron.

BROWN: Just very quickly, general. Assuming you're right about northern Yemen and taking into account the distance these missiles can travel, who could they hurt?

SHEPPERD: Well, they could hit from there -- depending on what type of scud it is, anywhere from 350 to 550 miles. It could hit Riyadh, it could hit Qatar, it could hit the UAE, (UNINTELLIGIBLE), it could Oman, (UNINTELLIGIBLE), everything except the tip of Oman out there. You got it.

BROWN: Pretty much the region. Thank you, General Don Shepperd, who's in Qatar tonight.

SHEPPERD: You bet.

BROWN: And ahead on the program, Senator Lott. What he said about Strom Thurmond and how Washington is responding.

But up next, the latest from Baghdad, where the inspection team seems to be getting bigger and more aggressive, too. This is NEWSNIGHT from Atlanta on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: The chief U.N. weapons inspector briefed his boss today. Hans Blix told U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan his team is making good progress, digging through all the documentation from Iraq. Blix said they'll have about 3,000 pages of it done by the end of the week. And their first formal assessment goes out to the public on the 19th of the month.

An American assessment may come sooner than that. Some experts already saying an early quick read of the declaration leads them to believe that much of the material is recycled from earlier Iraqi documents.

Also part of Mr. Blix's briefing today, a progress report on the flow of inspectors and equipment into Iraq. That, he said, is moving along a bit ahead of schedule. CNN's Nic Robertson tonight on the side of the story from Baghdad.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Evidence, if more were needed. The pace of inspections picking up here. Twenty-five U.N. experts arriving at Saddam International Airport, joining the 42 strong force already at work.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was the increased number of inspectors, there's no doubt. We have now the capability to inspect more sites simultaneously. ROBERTSON: This day, five U.N. teams, instead of the normal two, spreading out across Iraq. Ibin al Haifan Industrial Engineering Complex (ph) just 20 kilometers south of Baghdad. The closest inspection to the city.

Air conditioning units and generators among the civilian products. Both high interest to inspectors, computer controlled precision engineering equipment. Able to work to the fine tolerances required by some military applications.

The furthest site visited, Pakishat (ph), a former phosphate and uranium mine. A five and a half hour drive across Iraq's western dessert to the Syrian border. Al Tuaitha (ph), Iraq's primary atomic research facility, visited for the fourth consecutive day. As well as an animal vaccine plant 40 kilometers west of Baghdad.

(on camera): In a newspaper here, Iraq's top official dealing with the U.N. weapons inspectors, General Husan Amin (ph), is quoted as saying so far they've been behaving in a professional and calm manner. While continuing to express anger about a recent visit to a presidential palace, he was quoted as saying that he expected the U.N. work to continue for another eight months.

(voice-over): In contrast, President Saddam Hussein appearing on Iraqi TV with his two sons, Kusay Saddam Hussein and Uday Saddam Hussein, and with employees of Iraq's military industrial commission. The Iraqi president praises the men for their efforts to face their enemies' aggressive conspiracies.

And from Iraq's foreign ministry sharp criticism at the U.S. acquisition of Iraq's unedited declaration before it was distributed to other U.N. Security Council members. The ministry accusing the U.S. of carrying out a blackmail unprecedented in the history of the U.N., saying America aims to manipulate the U.N. documents to find covers for aggression on Iraq.

With the new weapons experts in town, and the first of a fleet of eight helicopters almost ready for use, the rate of inspections look likely to outpace the flow of rhetoric for now at least. Nic Robertson, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Still ahead tonight on NEWSNIGHT, the message from a former president to the current one. A bit of what Jimmy Carter had to say while accepting the Nobel Peace Prize today.

And up next, call it the birthday blunder. Just how much damage did Senator Lott do with his comments last week? This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: On one level, this is a story of a politician putting his foot into his mouth, saying he's sorry and taking the heat for it. But in another way, it's a look at how Washington really works. Last Thursday, pretty much everyone agrees Senator Trent Lott got at least a few toes past his lips, when he praised Senator Strom Thurmond's segregationist run for the presidency in 1948.

When he said what he said, the room fell quiet. And tellingly enough, that uneasy silence lasted for days. Here's CNN's Jonathan Karl.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SEN. TRENT LOTT (R-MS), MINORITY LEADER: ... that she didn't want to go to the...

JONATHAN KARL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Call it belated outrage. Five days after Trent Lott's controversial comments, democratic leaders on Capitol Hill went on the attack, declaring Lott's apology insufficient.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), MINORITY LEADER: I understand that Senator Lott has made an apology. And he can apologize all he wants. It doesn't remove the sentiment that escaped his mouth that day at that party.

KARL: But the House's top Democrat had been before the cameras Monday and had nothing to say about Lott. And yesterday, the Senate's top Democrat avoided any criticism of Lott.

SEN. TOM DASCHLE (D-SD), MAJORITY LEADER: There are a lot of times when he and I go to the microphone and we'd like to say things we meant to say differently. And I'm sure this is one of those cases for him as well.

KARL: But under pressure from African-American leaders, Daschle pulled an about face, saying of Lott, "Regardless of how he intended his statement to be interpreted, it was wrong to say it, and I strongly disagree with it. His words were offensive to those who believe in freedom and equality in America."

Several top Republicans are privately questioning why it took Lott so long to apologize. Coming so late, his apology fueled the controversy and didn't satisfy his critics, especially NAACP President Kweisi Mfume.

KWEISI MFUME, PRESIDENT, NAACP: And I quite frankly -- I don't think that the Republican Party is served well now or into the future if Trent Lott, after these remarks, are allowed to stay in that position as the leader of the Senate, representing all Republicans. Because he doesn't represent all Republicans.

KARL: Lott declined to comment, letting the apology speak for itself. J.C. Watts, who is retiring as the only African-American Republic in Congress defended him.

REP. J.C. WATTS (R), OKLAHOMA: I am somewhat saddened that we would try and trivialize the very important issue of race for political gain. And so to say that what he said at a 100-year-old colleague's birthday party, and say that's that who he is or he meant to tie into segregationist attitudes, is -- I don't think that was the case.

KARL (on camera): Despite calls for his resignation, Lott's role in the Republican leadership seems to be secure. But the issue may come back to haunt his party, as Democrats are sure to revive it in future campaigns. Jonathan Karl, CNN, Capitol Hill.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Robert George wrote a scathing column in today's "New York Post" that began with a rhetorical two-by-four to the head and finished up even stronger. "Does the president," he asked, "want a man to lead his party in the Senate, who truly deserves to be the Senate majority leader, or a man who fantasizes about being the white majority leader?" These from the pages of the "New York Post" today. Robert George joins us tonight from New York.

Mr. George, good to see you. Thanks for coming in. What do you think in your heart about Trent Lott? Do you think he is a -- one of those southerners longing for the good old days?

ROBERT GEORGE, COLUMNIST "NEW YORK POST": I would like to think that's not the case. But he sometimes makes it very difficult to think otherwise, Aaron. The problem is, if this had been one statement just -- he's praising Strom Thurmond, who's retiring, who is retiring and is 100 years old and so forth, I mean, that's one thing. The problem is, which I went into in the "Post" article is that there's a history, there's a pattern here of Trent Lott, in a sense, praising the "old south."

And I recognize that there are a lot of people who have strong southern heritage, and I respect their heritage and so forth. But you can't ignore the fact that that south comes with a certain amount of baggage. And that baggage includes segregation, it includes lynching, it includes Jim Crow.

And I should add, I'm saying this as a person who used to -- who, just a few years ago, worked for the Republican Party. I am a conservative. And I just find it appalling.

BROWN: One of the things that was interesting to me today in looking at what was written about this, when I looked at the "Wall Street Journal," and the "Post" and "The Weekly Standard," these are important conservative editorial pages in the country.

GEORGE: "National Review" as well.

BROWN: And "National Review" as well. That one of the things that -- the broad argument was, how do Republicans make the case that in fact they are a party that should get African-American votes, when a top leader says things like this?

GEORGE: Well, that's the exact question. You've got a situation where George W. Bush got about eight percent of the black vote in 2000. Ninety-two percent of it went to Al Gore. Even with that, Bush turned around and appointed Colin Powell, first black Secretary of State, Condoleezza Rice, first black woman to be national security council. And, in fact, in the last election, the last mid-term elections, we now have two black Republican lieutenant governors.

So you can see that there's a possibility of blacks beginning to succeed in the Republican Party. But then you have one of the leaders of the party come out and say something that is completely and totally foolish at best. And again, this is somebody who has a history of this and has to be aware of what his words are, even more so than the average politician.

BROWN: Let me ask you about history here a little bit, because I got a note from someone who said, well, you know, Robert Byrd, he's a racist, too, or was one. He was a member of the Klan. Strom Thurmond goodness knows back when he came into the Senate certainly had strong views on segregation.

Do you make a distinction between an 80 plus-year-old Robert Byrd and a 100-year-old Strom Thurmond and a baby boomer in fact, like Trent Lott?

ROBERT GEORGE, COLUMNIST, "THE NEW YORK POST": That is exactly the point. This really is less so -- this is less to do about Strom Thurmond at 100. Or Robert Byrd at 85, he is going to retire in the next couple of years. This is less so about were they were in their youth, in their relative youth, as were the -- leader of the Republican party who's at the height at -- at the height of his political career. And somebody who seems to be willfully ignorant of history, of his own states history. That I think is troubling here.

While it's true that it was just a few months ago actually that Robert Byrd the N world on national television. And certainly it appropriate to criticize him for that. But what I think is very for Republicans to understand. The Democrats -- Democrats Achilles heel in the national dialog has generally been about foreign policy and national security. We saw that in the mid term elections. The Achilles heel of the Republican party for the last few decades, rightly or wrongly, is the issue of race and the issue of exclusivity and so forth.

Democrats are going to be held to a higher standard when it comes to nation security. Republicans are going to held to a higher standard when it comes to race. And if Republicans don't understand that they will continue being unfairly demigoged. They'll continue to be demigoged by Democrats for several elections to come.

BROWN: George, good to meet you. Wonderfully write column today. I am sure it wasn't an easy column for you to write. And we appreciate you coming to talk about it tonight.

Thanks a lot.

GEORGE: Thanks, Aaron.

BROWN: Robert George, who wrote in todays "New York Post," and writes in the post from time to time.

Next to come on NEWSNIGHT. Painful question for thousands of parents across the country. Why are so many kids getting Autism? What's causing it? Some theories controversial.

And up next how to handle Iraq (UNINTELLIGIBLE) by former president and Nobel Peace Prize winner, Jimmy Carter. We have a ways to go here from Atlanta tonight.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Coming up on NEWSNIGHT a message of peace from a former president. And criticism between (UNINTELLIGIBLE) for the current White House.

Short break and we will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: In Oslo, Norway today former President Jimmy Carter stood before Norway's King Harald V and accepted the Noble Peace Prize. President Carter was honored for his effort the brokering peace between Israel and Egypt 25 years ago but his thoughts were very much on war and peace in the Middle East today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES E. CARTER, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It is with deep sense of gratitude that I accept this prize. Great American power and responsibility are not unprecedented. And have been used with restraint and widespread benefit in the past. We have not assumed that super-strength guarantees super-wisdom, and we have consistently reached out to the international community to ensure that our own power and influence are tempered by the best common judgment.

War may sometimes be a necessary evil. But no matter how necessary, it is always evil, never a good. We will not learn how to live together in peace by killing each other's children. The bond of our common humanity is stronger than the divisive divisiveness of our fears and prejudices. God gives us a capacity for choice. We can choose to alleviate suffering. We can choose to work together for peace. We can make these changes, and we must. Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Former President Jimmy Carter accepted the Nobel Peace Prize today. Couple other stories we quickly want to fit in from around the world begins in Russia.

A gas pipeline burst early today near Russia's third largest city. Used to be known as Gorky back in Soviet days. Some of the flames shot up as high as 100 feet. Nobody hurt, imagine that.

More protests in Venezuelan, the ninth day of a strike for those in opposition to the leftist president.

This is a very good story that we need to pay more attention to. Venezuelans are stocking up on food taking money out of the bank for fear it will continue to rattle the economy. A lot of oil comes from Venezuela and Brazil now where they're bracing for more rain after mudslides yesterday killed 39 people, forced more than 1,000 out of their homes. The region that was hit is 100 miles west of Rio De Janeiro. The federal government expected to release relief funds in Brazil.

Still to come on NEWSNIGHT, the question of whether the lifetime ban on Pete Rose, the baseball player, will be lifted sometime soon. We'll take a look at their news tonight from Cincinnati. Up next Autism and vaccines. Might there be a connection? We'll talk with Dan Burton after this short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: This is a story we need to approach with a strong dose of caution. It's about a disorder that hits the very young and can devastate entire families. The number of kids getting it is growing fast and there are suspicions among many pearns about what may be behind it.

It's autism and the suspicion is that childhood vaccines may be part of the problem. Now, childhood vaccines had been one of the true wonders of modern medicine, saving literally countless lives. And the suggestion that parents may begin viewing somehow them as dangerous is alarming to the medical community, especially since the consensus at this point is that the research doesn't support the suspicions.

We'll talk with a congressman in a moment who has his own autism story and believes the vaccines need closer scrutiny. First, the science of what we know from CNN medical correspondent Rea Blakey.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

REA BLAKEY, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The controversy centers around a preservative once widely used in vaccines. Called Thimerosal, it contains nearly 50 percent ethyl mercury. Exposures to high levels of mercury can permanently damage the brain and kidneys, causing tremors, attention deficits, and problems with language development and memory.

Can mercury exposure in vaccines also cause autism?

DR. MARK BATSHAW, AUTISM EXPERT: It is known that autism is increasing and everyone wants to know why. And certainly it was not inappropriate to consider immunization as a cause. But it's been considered now and ruled out.

BLAKEY: A Food and Drug Administration review of Thimerosal found no evidence of harm caused by doses in vaccines, except for minor reactions like redness and swelling at the injection site. Yet autism activists remain concerned.

ROBERT BECK, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, AUTISM SOCIETY OF AMERICA: But there is no scientific evidence that shows that it's not. So it's a question that still needs to be answered.

BLAKEY: In 2001, the esteemed Institute of Medicine issued the most exhaustive study ever on Thimerosal. The research concluded it's biologically plausible that Thimerosal might cause developmental disorders like autism.

Meanwhile, the IOM report recommended Thimerosal be removed from all vaccines for infants, children and pregnant women.

Except for the flu vaccine, and the one for tetanus diptheria, most vaccines have only trace amounts or none at all.

(on camera): As a result, ethyl mercury levels in routine childhood vaccines have been reduced by 60 percent. So what's the government's recommendation for worried parents? Well, the Centers For Disease Control says there's plenty of preservative-free vaccines. But in cases where those don't exist, vaccines should be given according to the schedule.

BATSHAW: If you compare the risks of autism to the risks of not having immunization, it is much better for you to be immunized.

BLAKEY (voice-over): Each year, millions of American children receive childhood vaccinations. Given that fact, autism activists want more studies on role on Thimerosal might be playing.

Rea Blakey, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: One Congressman has been pushing hard to look more closely at autism and vaccines. He knows the damage autism can do firsthand. He has an autistic grandchild.

Indiana Republican Dan Burton reopened hearings in the House today and Congressman Burton joins us tonight from Washington. Congressman, it's always good to see you. Thank you.

REP. DAN BURTON (R), INDIANA: Nice seeing you, Aaron.

BROWN: Is your gut telling you anything here, one way or another? I mean, science at this point seems to suggest there is no connection.

BURTON: Well, that's not accurate, Aaron. We have had scientists from around the world and here in the United States who come with very strong evidence that the mercury in some of these vaccines does contribute to the autism in children.

My grandson, whom you mentioned a moment ago, got nine shots in one day, seven of which contained Thimerosal, mercury. And he got about 45 times the amount of mercury in one day that's tolerable in an adult. And he became autistic in just a matter of a couple of days and he hasn't been right since. And he was a perfectly normal child before that.

My granddaughter got a hepatitis B shot that had mercury in it and quit breathing within a matter of hours. We had to rush her to the hospital and fortunately she recovered. And she's been doing well. But she now has grand mal seizures that we believe may have been related to the Thimerosal, the mercury in that vaccine. So, a lot more -- as you said, a lot more needs to be studied. And that's why we've called on president to have a White House conference on this, bringing in all sides of the issue.

BROWN: Well, we hope we do.

Let me ask you -- of a-- this is -- I'll acknowledge a bit tangential to the basic question, but for reasons that are not easily explained to me at least, in the homeland security bill, Lily, who makes some of the vaccines and has some legal issues here, is given essentially a pass in the homeland security bill they're an given immunity to legal action, mostly. How did that happen?

BURTON: Well, that was put in the bill in the dark of night and many pharmaceutical companies that use Thimerosal in their vaccines I think were supportive of that, although they won't publicly say it.

The problem, is there's a three-year limit of -- statute of limitations on people who have damaged children as a result of vaccines. There's what's called a vaccine injury compensation fund. And with that three-year statute of limitations, if their child is believed to have been damaged by vaccines after that three-year period, they have no recourse but to go to the courts.

The language that was put in under the cover of darkness in the homeland security bill, stops even existing lawsuits from going forward, thus taking the ability of these people to get compensation for their damaged children from vaccines ever getting it. And that's a tragic thing because many of these people had to sell their homes. They have to live with these kids. It's just tragic. And they have nowhere to go.

BROWN: Who put that in -- in the bill?

BURTON: I talked to Dick Armey, who was the head of the subcommittee or the leadership committee that finalized the homeland security bill. He said it was put in at the request of the White House.

He also said the committee of jurisdiction was contacted about this amendment, which is not the case because my committee was the primary committee of jurisdiction and we knew nothing about it.

BROWN: White house, as you know -- I know you know this -- denies it had anything to do with it. White House says it didn't have anything to do with it. The committee apparently didn't have anything to do with it. No one's taking responsibility for this. Did members, particularly in the House -- did members in the house know this was in that bill when they voted on homeland security?

BURTON: Nobody knew about it except the people that put it in. And it didn't just fall from the sky. It wasn't an accident that it was put in that bill. It was done deliberately to protect pharmaceutical companies from lawsuits that might originate from these vaccines. Now, the fact of the matter is, I don't mind if we have a vaccination compensation fund that's fair and equitable to these people and gives them compensation without a lot of legal maneuvering. If we can come to that -- get that resolved.

But the fact is, these parents don't have any place to go except to the legal system, many of them, thousands of them. And it's wrong, if they've been damaged by vaccines, not to give them any avenue of hope.

BROWN: I'm going to bring us back in our last half minute to the central question. Where do your hearings go next?

BURTON: Well, we intend to continue to press for information concerning this issue from the pharmaceutical companies. I have subpoenaed documents that go all the way back to the '30s to find out if this stuff has ever been tested.

Thimerosal, to my knowledge and through our research, has never been tested by the FDA or the pharmaceutical companies. The only time it was ever tested, it was tested in 1929 on 27 people who were dying from meningitis. All of them died but they said it was not as a result of the Thimerosal given to them, so they've been putting it in vaccines ever since. That's just wrong.

BROWN: Congressman, we look forward to -- thank you. We look forward to the hearings. And you're updating us on them. Thank you very much. Congressman Dan Burton tonight.

BURTON: Thank you, Aaron.

BROWN: Short break and then "Their News" from Cincinnati.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Finally from us tonight, it's hard to imagine a bigger story in Cincinnati than any story involving Pete Rose. As you know, the certain Hall of Famer was banned by baseball, from all of baseball, because he bet on baseball.

Rose has for more than a decade refused to acknowledge betting on baseball and by refusing to do that, baseball, despite a lot of public pressure, has refused to lift its ban. Today word came out that Pete Rose has been talking to the commissioner, Bud Selig, leading to speculation the ban might be lifted. That was your lead story tonight on Cincinnati affiliate WLWT in their TV news.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: You're watching WLWT TV, Channel 5, Cincinnati. From the home of Sky 5, this is Eyewitness News 5.

ANNE MARIE TIERNON, WLWT NEWS ANCHOR: To our top story, Pete Rose is reportedly talking to baseball Commissioner Bud Selig about a limited reinstatement. DAVE WAGNER, WLWT NEWS ANCHOR: Neither is making any comment about whether they've even met but ESPN says if this goes through, it would allow Pete's name to be added to the Hall of Fame ballots.

TIERNON: Tonight Mark Kahler has reaction from perhaps the biggest Pete Rose fan, Marge Schott. Mark, what did she tell you?

MARK KAHLER, WLWT NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Mrs. Schott makes a point that many people are making these days, in and out of Greater Cincinnati.

They're saying baseball has very few legendary heroes and it's time to welcome back perhaps its greatest living legend, Pete Rose.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAHLER (voice-over): Former Reds majority owner Marge Schott has never been shy about her support for Pete Rose, but she says now more than ever it's baseball that needs Rose and the good times he represents.

MARGE SCHOTT, FORMER REDS OWNER: That's when baseball was baseball, honey. They've got to get it back.

KAHLER (on camera): This would be a good first step?

SCHOTT: To me it would be a good first step. I hope Bud sees this and takes action. I really do. I think Pete is baseball.

KAHLER (voice-over): Mrs. Schott points to events like the final softball game at Synergy and his appearance at the World Series, evidence Rose still has much to give baseball.

MAYOR CHARLIE LUKEN, CINCINNATI, OHIO: It struck me that this guy could go to a World Series game when it was sponsored and paid for and they were making money, but he can't come to Cincinnati.

KAHLER: Mayor Luken has released two letters he wrote November 13 and 20 to Baseball Commissioner Bud Selig. Luken asked for a meeting to discuss the Rose situation. Luken would like reinstatement to coincide with the opening of Great American Ball Park.

LUKEN: the representative of Major League Baseball was very receptive. He was open, he seemed upbeat about the possibility and asked that we give him 30 days or so. That was about three or four weeks ago.

KAHLER: Mayor Luken says he spoke with Chief Operating Officer Bob Dupee and ESPN reports Selig and Rose have met.

Rose's agent Wayne Greene told Eyewitness News, "We want Pete to talk to everybody. He loves talking to fans, but the timing right now, it's a no comment time."

Will Rose be back in baseball? Mrs. Schott admits to a few lingering doubts. SCHOTT: I don't know if they're that smart.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAHLER: Doubts aside Mrs. Schott also says she has a very good feeling about the possibility of reinstatement and more thought from her tonight at 6.

Mark Kahler, Eyewitness News 5.

TIERNON: All right, we'll check back. Thanks, Mark.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Your lead story tonight in Cincinnati, Pete Rose. Here's Paula Zahn with a look at what's coming up tomorrow on "AMERICAN MORNING."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Aaron. Tomorrow on "AMERICAN MORNING," among our guests Senators Richard Shelby and Bob Graham of the Senate Intelligence Committee. They are about to release their findings on what went wrong before 9/11 and how future attacks might be prevented.

And of course all the overnight developments from Iraq. That's at 7:00 a.m. Eastern. Hope you'll join us then -- Aaron.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: We're back here tomorrow in Atlanta at 10:00 Eastern time. We hope you are too. Until then good night from all of us on NEWSNIGHT.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





Intercepted Hidden Aboard Ship From North Korea>


Aired December 10, 2002 - 22:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, HOST: And good evening again, everyone.
So what exactly was Trent Lott thinking? Most of you know this, but the Senate majority leader to be was talking the other day at Strom Thurmond's 100th birthday and noted that Mississippi, his state, voted for Thurmond's segregationist party in 1948, and added if the country had done the same, "We wouldn't have had all these problems over all these years either." What problems was he referring to exactly?

Now, at first the senator said he was joking. And then about the time we were going on the air last night, he issued an apology, and that is good. All people say dumb things from time to time, and when they do, they should apologize. But it does make you wonder, doesn't it?

What was it he thought was so funny in making that joke? I don't have a clue what the senator believes in his most quiet thoughts. Only he knows that. I do know that most African-Americans think the Republican Party is not their party. That despite the fact that two of the most important players in the country, the secretary of state and the national security adviser, are African-Americans brought to the government by a Republican president.

Today, among the loudest voices condemning Senator Lott's little slipup came from conservatives, the "Wall Street Journal," The Weekly Standard," the Op-Ed pages of the "New York Post." They all seemed to get it. It's hard to get African-Americans to think your party is serious about race if it still makes loving jokes about the segregated past. We'll have more on the Lott story a little later in the program, but we begin with a story that broke early this evening.

A ship intercepted, and the discovery of what's on board. Kris Osborn is at the Pentagon for us tonight. Kris, a headline from you, please.

KRIS OSBORN, CNN HEADLINE NEWS ANCHOR: Well Aaron, U.S. military officials tell CNN they have discovered at least 12 intact scud missiles aboard what's being described as a stateless vessel making its way from North Korea to the waters off Yemen -- Aaron.

BROWN: Kris, thank you. Back to you at the top tonight.

And the reaction from the White House, too, now in "The Whip." Frank Buckley is there, so Frank, the headline from you.

FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATONAL CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, the White House is closely monitoring this situation. They say it is a situation of great concern. But they are also pleased with how the intelligence came together, how the ship was interdicted. As one senior administration official put it, at least on this score, this is certainly a good win -- Aaron.

BROWN: Frank, thank you. Back to you, too, in a moment.

Also coming up on the program tonight, what's behind a truly alarming rise in the cases of children getting autism? Many of their parents think childhood vaccines could be the blame, including at least one grandparent. Congressman Dan Burton of Illinois, we'll talk with him in a little bit. We'll also take a careful look what science says on this vaccine question.

We'll have a bit more on what former President Jimmy Carter said as he accepted his Nobel Peace Prize today. It had some sharp edges to it directed at the current White House and its approach involving Iraq.

And their news tonight comes from Cincinnati, where their own baseball legend might, just might be getting the reprieve they've been hoping for, for a very long time. Segment seven, their news on Pete Rose. All of that in the hour ahead.

We begin with the ship at sea, the missiles on it, and the drama that's now unfolding off the coast of Yemen. It is hard to know precisely what to make of it just yet, but easy to imagine the possibilities. A ship apparently from North Korea loaded with scud missiles on its way into a region where thousands of American soldiers are now operating.

We don't want to get too far ahead of things, but it's pretty clear the intelligence community shares the concern. They've been tracking the ship ever since it left port. So we begin back at the Pentagon and CNN's Kris Osborn, who's been monitoring developments there tonight. Kris, good evening.

OSBORN: Good evening to you, Aaron. Well certainly sharing the concern, as you mentioned, is very significantly what's transpiring at this hour at the Pentagon. Now the ship is currently about 200 miles southeast of Yemen. It is believed to have begun in North Korea, described as a stateless vessel, meaning it does not have sufficient paperwork on the specific authority of the North Korean government, at least as far as what intelligence sources know at this point.

Initially, the ship was intercepted yesterday by a Spanish authority, who then boarded the ship, looked at boards of concrete in the bottom of the ship, found materials used to make weapons underneath, at which point U.S. military explosives experts were called in to then investigate, at which point then it was confirmed that, indeed, at least 12 scud missiles intact were on board the ship. The ship is currently still being stabilized out at sea with these U.S. military explosives experts. Also, Spanish officials are telling CNN that the crew was made up of 21 North Koreans. Also, the ship will be escorted once it is believed to be stable back to Bahrain and the U.S. naval base there in the Persian Gulf. Of course, one of the locations of the fifth fleet.

Big question now, of course, is who was interested in these scud missiles? Authorities believe at this hour they're 99 percent sure that the vessel was headed toward Yemen. Additionally, what the U.S. intelligence sources are looking into right now is something that's called due diligence. They will be tracing the history and pattern of this ship and where it may have docked in at port, so as to gain any additional information that might help their investigation.

Scud missiles, of course, widely known many so many, used by President Saddam Hussein in the Gulf War. They don't have a whole lot of accuracy. But there are many different kinds of them. Some of them have a range of about 185 miles. They can carry a 220-pound pay load, and their target accuracy is about a kilometer or so.

So the one that hit U.S. military barracks during the Gulf War widely regarded as a lucky strike. A big question now, of course, were these bound for Yemen? If so, what might that mean in terms of the threats at sea? And again, this was a ship that U.S. intelligence had been monitoring, of course given the suspicions about both North Korea and proliferation -- Aaron.

BROWN: When people at the Pentagon say they are 99 percent sure the ship was headed for Yemen, are they saying they were 99 percent sure that the scud missiles were headed for the government of Yemen?

OSBORN: Well, that raises a very significant point. Because, of course, the administration is very careful to praise Yemeni cooperation in the war on terrorism. Yemen, of course, the ancestral home of bin Laden. And when it comes to particularly who may have ordered or who may be seeking these scud missiles, that is exactly what they're trying to figure out. They may very well have been on board without everyone perhaps being cognizant of the fact that they were there -- Aarong.

BROWN: Well, we'll wait and see as we get more on this, Kris. Thank you. Kris Osborn at the Pentagon tonight.

OSBORN: Thank you.

BROWN: The White House makes no secret that it views North Korea with the utmost suspicion. The president's national security adviser put it simply when asked earlier tht year. "North Korea," she said, "is willing to sell missiles to just about anyone who will buy." It's a belief that only deepened since then. For the latest, we go to the White House to get the White House reaction. CNN's Frank Buckley is there for us. Frank, good evening again.

BUCKLEY: Good evening, Aaron. Condoleezza Rice also said that North Korea was stocking much of the rest of the world with ballistic missiles. She even cited the fact that North Korea has glossy brochures in which it advertising these ballistic missiles. The White House is concerned about this situation. They are monitoring it closely. This is not the first time that North Korea has tried to sell scud missile parts in this part of the word. Just in August, a North Korean company was sanctioned by the U.S. for attempting to sell such parts to Yemen.

During the Clinton administration, this same North Korean company was sanctioned by the U.S. for providing parts in Iran. And again, this is the same North Korea that just recently admitted that it is developing nuclear weapons despite the fact that it said it would not in a 1994 agreement that provided oil in exchange for stopping this program.

We're told that next week Richard Armitage, the deputy undersecretary of state, will be going to the region and he'll specifically be talking to China to see if China can exert some influence over North Korea in this area -- Aaron.

BROWN: Have the North Koreans ever agreed not to sell scud missiles or scud missile parts? I mean, there are countries all over the world, including the U.S. government, that's selling military equipment to all sorts of countries.

BUCKLEY: Right. And what it violates, however, are international agreements on proliferation of these kinds of missiles. But the bottom line is, you make a good point, Aaron, that these sanctions that the U.S. puts out against this particle North Korean company, don't really mean a lot, especially given the fact that this company doesn't do any business with the U.S. And it prohibits this company from doing business with the U.S.

BROWN: And the same question essentially that I asked Kris with this twist. Is anyone where you are, anyone at the White House, suggesting where or who was the intended source? Who was going to get these missiles? And is anyone suggesting they might have found their way to Iraq?

BUCKLEY: Well, on the Iraq question, U.S. officials are saying they strongly believe that these were not headed to Iraq. That they could have -- there's a strong possibility that they were headed to Yemen. But even if they were headed to Yemen, at least publicly they're saying they don't believe Yemen intended to use these scud missiles in any sort of terrorist activity.

Perhaps for defense, perhaps for show in the region, to show strength. But they don't think that if they were headed to Yemen that they were to be used for terrorist purposes.

BROWN: OK, Frank, thank you. Frank Buckley is at the White House tonight. Thank you.

Retired General Don Shepperd joins us now. He is in Qatar and he can give us hopefully more on this. Just your quick take, Don, on this. Why would the Yemenis, if that's who was going to get them, want these missiles? MAJ. GEN. DON SHEPPERD, U.S. AIR FORCE (RET.): Well, as Frank said, the only reason the Yemenis would want the missiles would be for status in the area of self-defense. Now this smacks to me of al Qaeda. The other state actors in the area don't need it. It doesn't make sense to me that Iraq would be trying to get them.

The thing that's bothersome, Aaron, on this one, is the fact that there had to be a lot of people complicit in this. It takes for a big missile like this 35 feet, almost 14,000 pounds. It takes a big ship. It takes big cranes to get it off that ship.

You've got to move it out of the port area in something and then get it through check points to get it to a hiding area. We're shaking our heads here trying to figure this one out. It would make a good movie or a good Tom Clancy novel.

BROWN: Well, maybe that's why the intelligence was on it so early, because these things aren't that easy to move along. Let's just play with this idea -- we can't support it necessarily at this point -- that these were headed for al Qaeda. This is pretty -- even though there are low level missiles, it's pretty sophisticated stuff to launch them, isn't it?

SHEPPERD: Yeah, it really is. You've got to maintain these missiles. They're heavy, they're big, they have to be maintained. They're not very accurate.

If you've got 12 of them, probably a good percentage of them wouldn't launch. Others would go errant en route, and others would hit within a kilometer or so of the target. So having 12 missiles is not a big white knuckler. On the other hand, if al Qaeda got them in the area, you can see them launching them from Somalia or perhaps northern Yemen and hitting some of the southern bases in Saudi Arabia, Oman or the UAE, even in Qatar.

It would be a victory, but certainly not something that would stop a U.S. military asault on Iraq, Aaron.

BROWN: Would simply -- well, I guess the question is, how easy are they to hide? I don't mean on the ship, but once they're off loaded? Because it seems to me the U.S. government talks all the time about we spotted this scud missile location and that one. So they're not that easy to hide are they?

SHEPPERD: No, they're not that easy to hide at all. Again, they're a big missile and you've got to have a lot of people involved in this. And, as we've seen in Yemen, the CIA certainly has been watching with their predators in Yemen, because they fired one and knocked out some top al Qaeda leaders.

So this, again, is a real head shaker of why anyone in this area from al Qaeda would think they could get them and hide them and keep them secret. As I look at a map, the only places that you can fire these from and hit anything of interest would be -- really northern Yemen would be the place that they would go. And again, that's the stronghold of a lot of al Qaeda in that area. There and Somalia are the only two places in that area that they could hide, and the only places with ports that could get them off the ship.

So first reports are almost all wrong. And speculation like mine is even dumber probably. But we're all shaking our heads and waiting to hear what the intelligence community says, Aaron.

BROWN: Just very quickly, general. Assuming you're right about northern Yemen and taking into account the distance these missiles can travel, who could they hurt?

SHEPPERD: Well, they could hit from there -- depending on what type of scud it is, anywhere from 350 to 550 miles. It could hit Riyadh, it could hit Qatar, it could hit the UAE, (UNINTELLIGIBLE), it could Oman, (UNINTELLIGIBLE), everything except the tip of Oman out there. You got it.

BROWN: Pretty much the region. Thank you, General Don Shepperd, who's in Qatar tonight.

SHEPPERD: You bet.

BROWN: And ahead on the program, Senator Lott. What he said about Strom Thurmond and how Washington is responding.

But up next, the latest from Baghdad, where the inspection team seems to be getting bigger and more aggressive, too. This is NEWSNIGHT from Atlanta on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: The chief U.N. weapons inspector briefed his boss today. Hans Blix told U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan his team is making good progress, digging through all the documentation from Iraq. Blix said they'll have about 3,000 pages of it done by the end of the week. And their first formal assessment goes out to the public on the 19th of the month.

An American assessment may come sooner than that. Some experts already saying an early quick read of the declaration leads them to believe that much of the material is recycled from earlier Iraqi documents.

Also part of Mr. Blix's briefing today, a progress report on the flow of inspectors and equipment into Iraq. That, he said, is moving along a bit ahead of schedule. CNN's Nic Robertson tonight on the side of the story from Baghdad.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Evidence, if more were needed. The pace of inspections picking up here. Twenty-five U.N. experts arriving at Saddam International Airport, joining the 42 strong force already at work.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was the increased number of inspectors, there's no doubt. We have now the capability to inspect more sites simultaneously. ROBERTSON: This day, five U.N. teams, instead of the normal two, spreading out across Iraq. Ibin al Haifan Industrial Engineering Complex (ph) just 20 kilometers south of Baghdad. The closest inspection to the city.

Air conditioning units and generators among the civilian products. Both high interest to inspectors, computer controlled precision engineering equipment. Able to work to the fine tolerances required by some military applications.

The furthest site visited, Pakishat (ph), a former phosphate and uranium mine. A five and a half hour drive across Iraq's western dessert to the Syrian border. Al Tuaitha (ph), Iraq's primary atomic research facility, visited for the fourth consecutive day. As well as an animal vaccine plant 40 kilometers west of Baghdad.

(on camera): In a newspaper here, Iraq's top official dealing with the U.N. weapons inspectors, General Husan Amin (ph), is quoted as saying so far they've been behaving in a professional and calm manner. While continuing to express anger about a recent visit to a presidential palace, he was quoted as saying that he expected the U.N. work to continue for another eight months.

(voice-over): In contrast, President Saddam Hussein appearing on Iraqi TV with his two sons, Kusay Saddam Hussein and Uday Saddam Hussein, and with employees of Iraq's military industrial commission. The Iraqi president praises the men for their efforts to face their enemies' aggressive conspiracies.

And from Iraq's foreign ministry sharp criticism at the U.S. acquisition of Iraq's unedited declaration before it was distributed to other U.N. Security Council members. The ministry accusing the U.S. of carrying out a blackmail unprecedented in the history of the U.N., saying America aims to manipulate the U.N. documents to find covers for aggression on Iraq.

With the new weapons experts in town, and the first of a fleet of eight helicopters almost ready for use, the rate of inspections look likely to outpace the flow of rhetoric for now at least. Nic Robertson, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Still ahead tonight on NEWSNIGHT, the message from a former president to the current one. A bit of what Jimmy Carter had to say while accepting the Nobel Peace Prize today.

And up next, call it the birthday blunder. Just how much damage did Senator Lott do with his comments last week? This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: On one level, this is a story of a politician putting his foot into his mouth, saying he's sorry and taking the heat for it. But in another way, it's a look at how Washington really works. Last Thursday, pretty much everyone agrees Senator Trent Lott got at least a few toes past his lips, when he praised Senator Strom Thurmond's segregationist run for the presidency in 1948.

When he said what he said, the room fell quiet. And tellingly enough, that uneasy silence lasted for days. Here's CNN's Jonathan Karl.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SEN. TRENT LOTT (R-MS), MINORITY LEADER: ... that she didn't want to go to the...

JONATHAN KARL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Call it belated outrage. Five days after Trent Lott's controversial comments, democratic leaders on Capitol Hill went on the attack, declaring Lott's apology insufficient.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), MINORITY LEADER: I understand that Senator Lott has made an apology. And he can apologize all he wants. It doesn't remove the sentiment that escaped his mouth that day at that party.

KARL: But the House's top Democrat had been before the cameras Monday and had nothing to say about Lott. And yesterday, the Senate's top Democrat avoided any criticism of Lott.

SEN. TOM DASCHLE (D-SD), MAJORITY LEADER: There are a lot of times when he and I go to the microphone and we'd like to say things we meant to say differently. And I'm sure this is one of those cases for him as well.

KARL: But under pressure from African-American leaders, Daschle pulled an about face, saying of Lott, "Regardless of how he intended his statement to be interpreted, it was wrong to say it, and I strongly disagree with it. His words were offensive to those who believe in freedom and equality in America."

Several top Republicans are privately questioning why it took Lott so long to apologize. Coming so late, his apology fueled the controversy and didn't satisfy his critics, especially NAACP President Kweisi Mfume.

KWEISI MFUME, PRESIDENT, NAACP: And I quite frankly -- I don't think that the Republican Party is served well now or into the future if Trent Lott, after these remarks, are allowed to stay in that position as the leader of the Senate, representing all Republicans. Because he doesn't represent all Republicans.

KARL: Lott declined to comment, letting the apology speak for itself. J.C. Watts, who is retiring as the only African-American Republic in Congress defended him.

REP. J.C. WATTS (R), OKLAHOMA: I am somewhat saddened that we would try and trivialize the very important issue of race for political gain. And so to say that what he said at a 100-year-old colleague's birthday party, and say that's that who he is or he meant to tie into segregationist attitudes, is -- I don't think that was the case.

KARL (on camera): Despite calls for his resignation, Lott's role in the Republican leadership seems to be secure. But the issue may come back to haunt his party, as Democrats are sure to revive it in future campaigns. Jonathan Karl, CNN, Capitol Hill.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Robert George wrote a scathing column in today's "New York Post" that began with a rhetorical two-by-four to the head and finished up even stronger. "Does the president," he asked, "want a man to lead his party in the Senate, who truly deserves to be the Senate majority leader, or a man who fantasizes about being the white majority leader?" These from the pages of the "New York Post" today. Robert George joins us tonight from New York.

Mr. George, good to see you. Thanks for coming in. What do you think in your heart about Trent Lott? Do you think he is a -- one of those southerners longing for the good old days?

ROBERT GEORGE, COLUMNIST "NEW YORK POST": I would like to think that's not the case. But he sometimes makes it very difficult to think otherwise, Aaron. The problem is, if this had been one statement just -- he's praising Strom Thurmond, who's retiring, who is retiring and is 100 years old and so forth, I mean, that's one thing. The problem is, which I went into in the "Post" article is that there's a history, there's a pattern here of Trent Lott, in a sense, praising the "old south."

And I recognize that there are a lot of people who have strong southern heritage, and I respect their heritage and so forth. But you can't ignore the fact that that south comes with a certain amount of baggage. And that baggage includes segregation, it includes lynching, it includes Jim Crow.

And I should add, I'm saying this as a person who used to -- who, just a few years ago, worked for the Republican Party. I am a conservative. And I just find it appalling.

BROWN: One of the things that was interesting to me today in looking at what was written about this, when I looked at the "Wall Street Journal," and the "Post" and "The Weekly Standard," these are important conservative editorial pages in the country.

GEORGE: "National Review" as well.

BROWN: And "National Review" as well. That one of the things that -- the broad argument was, how do Republicans make the case that in fact they are a party that should get African-American votes, when a top leader says things like this?

GEORGE: Well, that's the exact question. You've got a situation where George W. Bush got about eight percent of the black vote in 2000. Ninety-two percent of it went to Al Gore. Even with that, Bush turned around and appointed Colin Powell, first black Secretary of State, Condoleezza Rice, first black woman to be national security council. And, in fact, in the last election, the last mid-term elections, we now have two black Republican lieutenant governors.

So you can see that there's a possibility of blacks beginning to succeed in the Republican Party. But then you have one of the leaders of the party come out and say something that is completely and totally foolish at best. And again, this is somebody who has a history of this and has to be aware of what his words are, even more so than the average politician.

BROWN: Let me ask you about history here a little bit, because I got a note from someone who said, well, you know, Robert Byrd, he's a racist, too, or was one. He was a member of the Klan. Strom Thurmond goodness knows back when he came into the Senate certainly had strong views on segregation.

Do you make a distinction between an 80 plus-year-old Robert Byrd and a 100-year-old Strom Thurmond and a baby boomer in fact, like Trent Lott?

ROBERT GEORGE, COLUMNIST, "THE NEW YORK POST": That is exactly the point. This really is less so -- this is less to do about Strom Thurmond at 100. Or Robert Byrd at 85, he is going to retire in the next couple of years. This is less so about were they were in their youth, in their relative youth, as were the -- leader of the Republican party who's at the height at -- at the height of his political career. And somebody who seems to be willfully ignorant of history, of his own states history. That I think is troubling here.

While it's true that it was just a few months ago actually that Robert Byrd the N world on national television. And certainly it appropriate to criticize him for that. But what I think is very for Republicans to understand. The Democrats -- Democrats Achilles heel in the national dialog has generally been about foreign policy and national security. We saw that in the mid term elections. The Achilles heel of the Republican party for the last few decades, rightly or wrongly, is the issue of race and the issue of exclusivity and so forth.

Democrats are going to be held to a higher standard when it comes to nation security. Republicans are going to held to a higher standard when it comes to race. And if Republicans don't understand that they will continue being unfairly demigoged. They'll continue to be demigoged by Democrats for several elections to come.

BROWN: George, good to meet you. Wonderfully write column today. I am sure it wasn't an easy column for you to write. And we appreciate you coming to talk about it tonight.

Thanks a lot.

GEORGE: Thanks, Aaron.

BROWN: Robert George, who wrote in todays "New York Post," and writes in the post from time to time.

Next to come on NEWSNIGHT. Painful question for thousands of parents across the country. Why are so many kids getting Autism? What's causing it? Some theories controversial.

And up next how to handle Iraq (UNINTELLIGIBLE) by former president and Nobel Peace Prize winner, Jimmy Carter. We have a ways to go here from Atlanta tonight.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Coming up on NEWSNIGHT a message of peace from a former president. And criticism between (UNINTELLIGIBLE) for the current White House.

Short break and we will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: In Oslo, Norway today former President Jimmy Carter stood before Norway's King Harald V and accepted the Noble Peace Prize. President Carter was honored for his effort the brokering peace between Israel and Egypt 25 years ago but his thoughts were very much on war and peace in the Middle East today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES E. CARTER, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It is with deep sense of gratitude that I accept this prize. Great American power and responsibility are not unprecedented. And have been used with restraint and widespread benefit in the past. We have not assumed that super-strength guarantees super-wisdom, and we have consistently reached out to the international community to ensure that our own power and influence are tempered by the best common judgment.

War may sometimes be a necessary evil. But no matter how necessary, it is always evil, never a good. We will not learn how to live together in peace by killing each other's children. The bond of our common humanity is stronger than the divisive divisiveness of our fears and prejudices. God gives us a capacity for choice. We can choose to alleviate suffering. We can choose to work together for peace. We can make these changes, and we must. Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Former President Jimmy Carter accepted the Nobel Peace Prize today. Couple other stories we quickly want to fit in from around the world begins in Russia.

A gas pipeline burst early today near Russia's third largest city. Used to be known as Gorky back in Soviet days. Some of the flames shot up as high as 100 feet. Nobody hurt, imagine that.

More protests in Venezuelan, the ninth day of a strike for those in opposition to the leftist president.

This is a very good story that we need to pay more attention to. Venezuelans are stocking up on food taking money out of the bank for fear it will continue to rattle the economy. A lot of oil comes from Venezuela and Brazil now where they're bracing for more rain after mudslides yesterday killed 39 people, forced more than 1,000 out of their homes. The region that was hit is 100 miles west of Rio De Janeiro. The federal government expected to release relief funds in Brazil.

Still to come on NEWSNIGHT, the question of whether the lifetime ban on Pete Rose, the baseball player, will be lifted sometime soon. We'll take a look at their news tonight from Cincinnati. Up next Autism and vaccines. Might there be a connection? We'll talk with Dan Burton after this short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: This is a story we need to approach with a strong dose of caution. It's about a disorder that hits the very young and can devastate entire families. The number of kids getting it is growing fast and there are suspicions among many pearns about what may be behind it.

It's autism and the suspicion is that childhood vaccines may be part of the problem. Now, childhood vaccines had been one of the true wonders of modern medicine, saving literally countless lives. And the suggestion that parents may begin viewing somehow them as dangerous is alarming to the medical community, especially since the consensus at this point is that the research doesn't support the suspicions.

We'll talk with a congressman in a moment who has his own autism story and believes the vaccines need closer scrutiny. First, the science of what we know from CNN medical correspondent Rea Blakey.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

REA BLAKEY, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The controversy centers around a preservative once widely used in vaccines. Called Thimerosal, it contains nearly 50 percent ethyl mercury. Exposures to high levels of mercury can permanently damage the brain and kidneys, causing tremors, attention deficits, and problems with language development and memory.

Can mercury exposure in vaccines also cause autism?

DR. MARK BATSHAW, AUTISM EXPERT: It is known that autism is increasing and everyone wants to know why. And certainly it was not inappropriate to consider immunization as a cause. But it's been considered now and ruled out.

BLAKEY: A Food and Drug Administration review of Thimerosal found no evidence of harm caused by doses in vaccines, except for minor reactions like redness and swelling at the injection site. Yet autism activists remain concerned.

ROBERT BECK, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, AUTISM SOCIETY OF AMERICA: But there is no scientific evidence that shows that it's not. So it's a question that still needs to be answered.

BLAKEY: In 2001, the esteemed Institute of Medicine issued the most exhaustive study ever on Thimerosal. The research concluded it's biologically plausible that Thimerosal might cause developmental disorders like autism.

Meanwhile, the IOM report recommended Thimerosal be removed from all vaccines for infants, children and pregnant women.

Except for the flu vaccine, and the one for tetanus diptheria, most vaccines have only trace amounts or none at all.

(on camera): As a result, ethyl mercury levels in routine childhood vaccines have been reduced by 60 percent. So what's the government's recommendation for worried parents? Well, the Centers For Disease Control says there's plenty of preservative-free vaccines. But in cases where those don't exist, vaccines should be given according to the schedule.

BATSHAW: If you compare the risks of autism to the risks of not having immunization, it is much better for you to be immunized.

BLAKEY (voice-over): Each year, millions of American children receive childhood vaccinations. Given that fact, autism activists want more studies on role on Thimerosal might be playing.

Rea Blakey, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: One Congressman has been pushing hard to look more closely at autism and vaccines. He knows the damage autism can do firsthand. He has an autistic grandchild.

Indiana Republican Dan Burton reopened hearings in the House today and Congressman Burton joins us tonight from Washington. Congressman, it's always good to see you. Thank you.

REP. DAN BURTON (R), INDIANA: Nice seeing you, Aaron.

BROWN: Is your gut telling you anything here, one way or another? I mean, science at this point seems to suggest there is no connection.

BURTON: Well, that's not accurate, Aaron. We have had scientists from around the world and here in the United States who come with very strong evidence that the mercury in some of these vaccines does contribute to the autism in children.

My grandson, whom you mentioned a moment ago, got nine shots in one day, seven of which contained Thimerosal, mercury. And he got about 45 times the amount of mercury in one day that's tolerable in an adult. And he became autistic in just a matter of a couple of days and he hasn't been right since. And he was a perfectly normal child before that.

My granddaughter got a hepatitis B shot that had mercury in it and quit breathing within a matter of hours. We had to rush her to the hospital and fortunately she recovered. And she's been doing well. But she now has grand mal seizures that we believe may have been related to the Thimerosal, the mercury in that vaccine. So, a lot more -- as you said, a lot more needs to be studied. And that's why we've called on president to have a White House conference on this, bringing in all sides of the issue.

BROWN: Well, we hope we do.

Let me ask you -- of a-- this is -- I'll acknowledge a bit tangential to the basic question, but for reasons that are not easily explained to me at least, in the homeland security bill, Lily, who makes some of the vaccines and has some legal issues here, is given essentially a pass in the homeland security bill they're an given immunity to legal action, mostly. How did that happen?

BURTON: Well, that was put in the bill in the dark of night and many pharmaceutical companies that use Thimerosal in their vaccines I think were supportive of that, although they won't publicly say it.

The problem, is there's a three-year limit of -- statute of limitations on people who have damaged children as a result of vaccines. There's what's called a vaccine injury compensation fund. And with that three-year statute of limitations, if their child is believed to have been damaged by vaccines after that three-year period, they have no recourse but to go to the courts.

The language that was put in under the cover of darkness in the homeland security bill, stops even existing lawsuits from going forward, thus taking the ability of these people to get compensation for their damaged children from vaccines ever getting it. And that's a tragic thing because many of these people had to sell their homes. They have to live with these kids. It's just tragic. And they have nowhere to go.

BROWN: Who put that in -- in the bill?

BURTON: I talked to Dick Armey, who was the head of the subcommittee or the leadership committee that finalized the homeland security bill. He said it was put in at the request of the White House.

He also said the committee of jurisdiction was contacted about this amendment, which is not the case because my committee was the primary committee of jurisdiction and we knew nothing about it.

BROWN: White house, as you know -- I know you know this -- denies it had anything to do with it. White House says it didn't have anything to do with it. The committee apparently didn't have anything to do with it. No one's taking responsibility for this. Did members, particularly in the House -- did members in the house know this was in that bill when they voted on homeland security?

BURTON: Nobody knew about it except the people that put it in. And it didn't just fall from the sky. It wasn't an accident that it was put in that bill. It was done deliberately to protect pharmaceutical companies from lawsuits that might originate from these vaccines. Now, the fact of the matter is, I don't mind if we have a vaccination compensation fund that's fair and equitable to these people and gives them compensation without a lot of legal maneuvering. If we can come to that -- get that resolved.

But the fact is, these parents don't have any place to go except to the legal system, many of them, thousands of them. And it's wrong, if they've been damaged by vaccines, not to give them any avenue of hope.

BROWN: I'm going to bring us back in our last half minute to the central question. Where do your hearings go next?

BURTON: Well, we intend to continue to press for information concerning this issue from the pharmaceutical companies. I have subpoenaed documents that go all the way back to the '30s to find out if this stuff has ever been tested.

Thimerosal, to my knowledge and through our research, has never been tested by the FDA or the pharmaceutical companies. The only time it was ever tested, it was tested in 1929 on 27 people who were dying from meningitis. All of them died but they said it was not as a result of the Thimerosal given to them, so they've been putting it in vaccines ever since. That's just wrong.

BROWN: Congressman, we look forward to -- thank you. We look forward to the hearings. And you're updating us on them. Thank you very much. Congressman Dan Burton tonight.

BURTON: Thank you, Aaron.

BROWN: Short break and then "Their News" from Cincinnati.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Finally from us tonight, it's hard to imagine a bigger story in Cincinnati than any story involving Pete Rose. As you know, the certain Hall of Famer was banned by baseball, from all of baseball, because he bet on baseball.

Rose has for more than a decade refused to acknowledge betting on baseball and by refusing to do that, baseball, despite a lot of public pressure, has refused to lift its ban. Today word came out that Pete Rose has been talking to the commissioner, Bud Selig, leading to speculation the ban might be lifted. That was your lead story tonight on Cincinnati affiliate WLWT in their TV news.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: You're watching WLWT TV, Channel 5, Cincinnati. From the home of Sky 5, this is Eyewitness News 5.

ANNE MARIE TIERNON, WLWT NEWS ANCHOR: To our top story, Pete Rose is reportedly talking to baseball Commissioner Bud Selig about a limited reinstatement. DAVE WAGNER, WLWT NEWS ANCHOR: Neither is making any comment about whether they've even met but ESPN says if this goes through, it would allow Pete's name to be added to the Hall of Fame ballots.

TIERNON: Tonight Mark Kahler has reaction from perhaps the biggest Pete Rose fan, Marge Schott. Mark, what did she tell you?

MARK KAHLER, WLWT NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Mrs. Schott makes a point that many people are making these days, in and out of Greater Cincinnati.

They're saying baseball has very few legendary heroes and it's time to welcome back perhaps its greatest living legend, Pete Rose.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAHLER (voice-over): Former Reds majority owner Marge Schott has never been shy about her support for Pete Rose, but she says now more than ever it's baseball that needs Rose and the good times he represents.

MARGE SCHOTT, FORMER REDS OWNER: That's when baseball was baseball, honey. They've got to get it back.

KAHLER (on camera): This would be a good first step?

SCHOTT: To me it would be a good first step. I hope Bud sees this and takes action. I really do. I think Pete is baseball.

KAHLER (voice-over): Mrs. Schott points to events like the final softball game at Synergy and his appearance at the World Series, evidence Rose still has much to give baseball.

MAYOR CHARLIE LUKEN, CINCINNATI, OHIO: It struck me that this guy could go to a World Series game when it was sponsored and paid for and they were making money, but he can't come to Cincinnati.

KAHLER: Mayor Luken has released two letters he wrote November 13 and 20 to Baseball Commissioner Bud Selig. Luken asked for a meeting to discuss the Rose situation. Luken would like reinstatement to coincide with the opening of Great American Ball Park.

LUKEN: the representative of Major League Baseball was very receptive. He was open, he seemed upbeat about the possibility and asked that we give him 30 days or so. That was about three or four weeks ago.

KAHLER: Mayor Luken says he spoke with Chief Operating Officer Bob Dupee and ESPN reports Selig and Rose have met.

Rose's agent Wayne Greene told Eyewitness News, "We want Pete to talk to everybody. He loves talking to fans, but the timing right now, it's a no comment time."

Will Rose be back in baseball? Mrs. Schott admits to a few lingering doubts. SCHOTT: I don't know if they're that smart.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAHLER: Doubts aside Mrs. Schott also says she has a very good feeling about the possibility of reinstatement and more thought from her tonight at 6.

Mark Kahler, Eyewitness News 5.

TIERNON: All right, we'll check back. Thanks, Mark.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Your lead story tonight in Cincinnati, Pete Rose. Here's Paula Zahn with a look at what's coming up tomorrow on "AMERICAN MORNING."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Aaron. Tomorrow on "AMERICAN MORNING," among our guests Senators Richard Shelby and Bob Graham of the Senate Intelligence Committee. They are about to release their findings on what went wrong before 9/11 and how future attacks might be prevented.

And of course all the overnight developments from Iraq. That's at 7:00 a.m. Eastern. Hope you'll join us then -- Aaron.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: We're back here tomorrow in Atlanta at 10:00 Eastern time. We hope you are too. Until then good night from all of us on NEWSNIGHT.

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