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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown

Trent Lott Vows To Remain In His Position As Majority Leader; Pentagon Will Deploy Missile Defense System By 2004;

Aired December 17, 2002 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


AARON BROWN, HOST: Good evening again.
OK, we can't deny it much any longer. There really is something funny going on around here. Suddenly, we're living in a world in which New York transit workers don't go on strike, Trent Lott comes out in favor of affirmative action and McDonald's is losing money.

When the company made that announcement today it knocked U.S. for a loop. In its entire history, McDonald's has never ever lost a dime and never stopped growing either. That's also changing. The losses come from the cost of closing locations, not opening new ones.

So is this the high watermark for an empire with 30,000 outposts in 121 countries? One day, when you're bouncing your grandchildren on your knee, will they ask you, grandpa, where were you when the golden arches came tumbling down? Well, thousands of teenagers once again have time to spend at home, say, mowing the lawn. Does this mean some day the French will like U.S. again?

Will they forgive U.S. for giving them Le Big Mac? Probably not, but stranger things have happened. And indeed seem to be happening this week.

On to "The Whip" now and the tribulations of the junior Senator from the state of Mississippi.

CNN's Jonathan Karl has the duty again tonight. Jon, start U.S. off with a headline, please.

JONATHAN KARL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: With Trent Lott's future increasingly uncertain, he's vowed today to fight to remain in his position as Senate majority leader.

BROWN: Jon, thank you. Back to you at the top tonight.

The Pentagon next, and a decision on missile defense. CNN's Jamie McIntyre with that. Jamie, the headline from you.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, the Pentagon's thinking is something like this: if you don't have a defense against missiles, you're spending billions to build one, why not deploy it sooner than later? Today President Bush said, Go for it.

BROWN: Jamie, thank you. To Venezuela next, a country caught in the middle of a political crisis, with millions of barrels of oil at stake. CNN's Harris Whitbeck on the video phone. A headline, please.

HARRIS WHITBECK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

BROWN: We'll fill in the rest of the words later. In Miami, it's a question once again of missing children. CNN's Mark Potter is there with the headline tonight. Mark, use all the words, please.

MARK POTTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I certainly will, Aaron. After a three-month investigation, Florida officials say they have found nearly 300 missing children from the child welfare system, and it appears they may have some 300 more to go, mostly runaways -- Aaron.

BROWN: Thank you, Mark. It is so much easier to understand that way. Back with all of you shortly.

Also tonight, we'll hear what a leading Senate Republican has to say about Trent Lott and his party's record on race. Utah Senator Orrin Hatch is with U.S. tonight.

And a man climbed a skyscraper in Houston, Texas, then jumped or fell to his death. Some local stations carried it live. Others chose not to. Who made the right call? We'll explore the tensions between the need to know and the human desire to watch, and how the media sorts it all out.

And what happens when you try and take the sin out of a city known as Disneyland for adults? New Orleans cleaning up its act. Is it a good thing or just a lowdown dirty shame? All of that in the hour ahead.

We begin once again with Senator Trent Lott, who finds himself tonight as deep in political quicksand as ever. As deep perhaps as a politician can be without actually drowning. And where's a tree branch when you really need one?

In a moment you'll hear from Orrin Hatch, the Republican senator from Utah, who offers a strong defense of his colleague. But no one with the power to save him, meaning the president of the United States, seems inclined to try. That's becoming clear in so many words, or, more importantly, in so much silence. Here again CNN Capitol Hill correspondent Jonathan Karl.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KARL (voice-over): Trent Lott's fellow Senate Republicans are not now clamoring for his resignation, but most of them are not offering their support either.

SEN. CHUCK GRASSLEY (R), IOWA: And maybe we will have a new leader. But I'm going to wait and not waste any time on that until I have to make that decision.

KARL: With headlines in the newspapers declaring President Bush wouldn't mind seeing Lott go, the official White House line is that, although the president doesn't think Lott needs to resign, he will not side with him in a leadership battle. ARI FLEISCHER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Senators have indicated they are calling for a meeting on January 6, and the White House will not comment on that meeting or anything leading up to that meeting.

KARL: Republicans are divided. GOP Senate sources say, at this point, Lott does not have enough support to stay on as leader. But there are not enough votes to remove him either. And Lott himself is determined to fight, telling ABC, "I'm the son of a shipyard worker from Pascagoula, Mississippi I've have to fight all my life, and I'm not stopping now."

And he has the support of some key Republicans, including Ted Stevens, the incoming appropriations chairman and the most senior GOP Senator, who said, "I'm going to go back and I'm going to defend my friend. And I'm going to tell him he stays as our leader."

Rick Santorum, the No. 3 Republican in the Senate, also reaffirmed his support for Lott. But Jim Talent, the newly elected Senator from Missouri, took an unusual step for a freshman, suggesting in a statement that Lott is too weak to push for the GOP agenda. "There is now a substantial question as to whether Senator Lott has the capacity to move that agenda forward."

Democrats are content to sit on the sidelines for now. Tom Daschle told CNN the idea of censuring Lott is now on hold.

(on camera): Should he be censured by the Senate?

SEN. TOM DASCHLE (D-SD), MAJORITY LEADER: Well, it looks like events have gone beyond that. Now the caucus is looking as if they may be examining whether he should be leader. So until that decision is made, I think anything else is too speculative.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KARL: There is widespread frustration, as you can imagine, Aaron, among Republicans that this whole situation could drag out with uncertainty until January 6. Many of those Republicans here have been telling each other that they would like to see Trent Lott resign and simply put this problem behind the party.

But Trent Lott's allies, Trent Lott himself, have made it very clear that he has absolutely no intention of resigning. They say that is something that's not going to happen -- Aaron.

BROWN: It's not going to happen yet. You know, it's a couple -- we've got a couple weeks to go. It's unimaginable, I would think, if you're a Republican, that every day for the next two weeks, three weeks, really, we're going to be going through this drill again and again counting noses. That's what they're afraid of, though, isn't it?

KARL: That's exactly what they're afraid of. And some of them are hoping -- one very senior Republican aide up here said what we need is three wise men, not to go to Bethlehem, but to go down to Pascagoula, Mississippi, to have a discussion with Trent Lott, to explain to him the situation and encourage him to step aside. Three Republican elder statesmen, maybe senators, maybe people outside the Senate. But right now, again, Lott supporters are adamant that he is simply not going to step aside.

But, of course, there's reality. If somebody went to him and showed him the names of 26, 27 senators that wanted him to go, of course that would change the situation.

BROWN: Jon, thank you. I think we're all going to work over the holidays. Jonathan Karl on Capitol Hill tonight.

On now to the president's decision to deploy a limited defense against ballistic missiles. A piece of history, first. Twenty-seven years ago, after years of bitter fighting over whether missile defense would work and billions of dollars spent on research, the United States put a lone ABM (ph) site into operation. A day later, Congress voted to shut it down.

Twenty-seven years later, after billions more dollars and even more bitter debate, the country is set to try again. And so here again CNN's Jamie McIntyre.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE (voice-over): Even though the latest U.S. missile defense test last week failed when a booster didn't separate, the Pentagon insists its hit-to-kill technology has worked four of five times this year.

LT. GEN. RONALD KADISH, MISSILE DEFENSE AGENCY: Our fundamental technology of hit to kill collision of the interceptor with the warheads that completely destroys the war warheads works.

MCINTYRE: The goal, to produce a system of interceptors and radars that, by 2004, could, for example, detect, track and knock down a missile launched by North Korea before it could hit any of the 50 United States. Price tag: an additional $1.5 billion added to the $8 billion a year the U.S. is already spending on the program.

LISBETH GRONLUND, UNION OF CONCERNED SCIENTISTS: I think it is a waste of money to deploy. I mean, it's really still in the very early stages of research and development. If this were any other military system, there would be no talk of deploying it.

MCINTYRE: Still, better than nothing argues the Pentagon.

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: I wouldn't want to overplay it, I wouldn't want to oversell it. I wouldn't want to suggest that it has a depth or breadth or capability that it will take some time to evolve.

MCINTYRE: By 2005, the plan calls for 16 land-based interceptor missiles at Fort Greeley, Alaska, four interceptors at Vandenberg Air Force Base in California. The use of radars in Greenland and Great Britain. Modifying three Aegis ships to carry 20 interceptors, and 346 new patriot missiles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE: The Pentagon does admit that, initially, this system would have a limited value of protection. But they still think it would have some deterrent value, particularly for countries like North Korea, which might be tempted to fire a missile at the United States, but also against other potential adversaries who might have second thoughts about spending all the time, effort and money to acquire missiles knowing that the U.S. will only be improving its missile shield in the future -- Aaron.

BROWN: And the decision to put them in Alaska and on the West Coast presumes that the threats are from Asia, from China and North Korea?

MCINTYRE: Well, these missiles are best positioned to hit threats from Asia, but when they get this system together, in fact, they'll be able to counter missiles that come from any part of the world, including the Middle East, even though they're from those areas. If you think about how missiles might come over, a lot of them coming from the Middle East would come over the polar area, and missiles in Alaska would be positioned to hit those. In future, as the system grows, they'll add other sites, perhaps even in other countries.

BROWN: Jamie, thank you. Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon tonight.

Venezuela's our next stop. This story has somewhat gotten buried in the avalanche of domestic news, political news and war news. It surfaces now because the events unfolding there may, in fact, have a bearing on both. Venezuela exports a lot of oil to the United States, but hasn't exported more than a few drops since the country fell into political turmoil.

So why is this happening? What are the stakes? And why should you care? Questions answered tonight by CNN's Harris Whitbeck.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WHITBECK (voice-over): Shooting in the streets. Anger everywhere. Tanker ships float idle, their hulls filled with gasoline that cannot get to market. Thousands wait for hours for what little the government has in reserve.

Venezuela is the second largest supplier of oil to the United States, but what began as a general strike has paralyzed the country's oil industry. It's become a weapon against the government here, as Venezuelans battle over who should lead their country.

JULIO BORGES, OPPOSITION LEADER (through translator): This has become a citizen's rebellion. It has gone beyond the work stoppage. This is about citizens demanding a change in the course their country is taking. WHITBECK: For more than a year now, President Hugo Chavez has faced an increasingly vocal opposition. Mainly middle class and elite from the business community. In power since 2001, Chavez has vowed to completely restructure Venezuela's social and economic framework.

Unhappy with his economic policies and his leftist politics, the opposition is demanding he either resign or call early elections. Last April, Chavez was even ousted for two days during a coup that eventually failed. On Sunday, he insisted he is not leaving office until the constitution he helped write allows a recall election.

The president has won a strong show of support from the head of the Venezuelan army, who said the opposition's efforts amount to sabotage against the country's economic infrastructure. And Chavez has supporters. Mostly the poor who have responded to his populous policies, have vowed to fight to the death to defend him.

The crisis has the attention of the White House, which Friday called for early elections. Venezuela's president called that intervention, which Monday the White House denied.

FLEISCHER: The most important way the president believes that peace can come to the people of Venezuela is through the Venezuelan people. The United States stands ready to play a constructive role through the Organization of American States and with the OAS to help them achieve that.

For weeks the secretary general of the Organization of American States has tried to find a solution to the crisis. He is frustrated and concerned.

CESAR GAVIRIA, SECRETARY GENERAL, THE ORGANIZATION OF AMERICAN STATES: While I was not expecting what would be that tensions will increase the way they have done, and that we had such a short time to find a solution.

WHITBECK: Both sides feel they have the winning edge. Chavez, with the support of the military and the country's majority poor.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITBECK: And the opposition, with hundreds of thousands in the streets, who every day seem more determined to stay there until the president is removed. Every day more tension and more passion. And, Aaron, neither side seems willing to give in -- Aaron.

BROWN: Has anybody figured out even a plan for a compromise, where a compromise might work?

WHITBECK: Everybody seems to agree that -- every observer seems to agree that an electorate solution would be the most viable one, Aaron. But the president is insisting on the fact that the Venezuelan constitution does not allow for an early election unless there's a referendum in August 2003. The secretary general of the OAS, United States, and several other international observers and facilitators are trying to work out a way between the opposition and the government out of this mess. A way that would be legal. It's just going to take a long time to find it.

BROWN: And, Harris, does the opposition have a single clear leader?

WHITBECK: No, and that's been one of the problems that the opposition has faced. There are several different business groups, several different opposition political parties, and several civic organizations that have arisen in the last year. Every one of them seems to have a common agenda that they want Mr. Chavez out, but there's not one clear leader. In fact, many observers say that, if there were a new election tomorrow a month from now, Mr. Chavez might win it again, precisely because the opposition does not have that one figure it needs.

BROWN: Harris, thank you. Harris Whitbeck in Caracas, Venezuela, where much of your oil comes from.

Still ahead on NEWSNIGHT: Florida finds many of its so-called missing children, yet dozens remain missing tonight.

And up next: we talk with Senator Orrin Hatch of Utah about the troubles for his friend and colleague, Trent Lott. This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Trent Lott isn't going to have to face the voters in Mississippi again until 2007. So at this point there really are just 50 people whose votes matter to him. Those are the 50 Republican senators who could decide they don't want him to be their leader anymore.

So far, the silence from most of them has been deafening. A short time ago we talked with Utah Senator Orrin Hatch, who was strongly supportive of the Mississippi senator.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Senator Hatch, we're at a point now where it seems like the long knives are out. Does Senator Lott stay or go, what do you think?

SEN. ORRIN HATCH (R), UTAH: Well, first of all, I agreed with what the president had to say in criticizing the language. It was dumb language. It was terrible.

I have to say, you have to put it in context, because it was language which was intended to cheer up and warm up a wonderful senator of many, many years, 100 years old. So it was dumb, it shouldn't have been done. He shouldn't have done that.

But now let's think about this. What rational person would think that Trent Lott was trying to say that he wanted to re-segregate America? I don't think any rational person would think that, so why is the piling on going on and on after, as of my count, at least five or six apologies? This country is a fair country. We're a forgiving country.

This man has given 30 years of service to the United States of America. And whether you agree with him or don't, my gosh, here's a very good man who's made a terrible mistake, and I think at this point it's piling on to just keep piling on him. Again, I'd ask, in fairness, what rational person would conclude that Trent Lott, who served for 30 years with distinction in both houses of Congress was calling for the re-segregation of America? Well, nobody.

So this is being turned into a political fiasco rather than something that is fair. And I think it's time to call for fairness, forgiveness, and let's go from there.

BROWN: Maybe I'm reading this wrong, that happens from time to time. But it seems to me the longest of the long knives here are coming from conservatives, conservative organizations, conservative publications. They're coming from the senator's own party.

HATCH: Well, I think that's probably true in some ways, because no one in the Republican Party, after all we're doing to try and work with minorities and to embrace everybody in our Republican Party, which I think we made great strides on, and which this president is doing a terrific job in doing, I think people are very upset about the fact that Senator Lott has been caught in this dilemma.

BROWN: Do you think Republicans are defensive on the subject of race? Whether they have reason to be or not, that their reaction to this has been a defensive reaction because they believe on this issue they have problems?

HATCH: Well, there have been plenty of Democrats trying to make this a big issue of race, pulling the race card. It's pulled in every election, and so Republicans are a little bit defensive on it, because these unjustified accusations -- how could it be more unjustified than to try and make the case that Trent Lott was calling for a re- segregated America? I mean, that's ridiculous, and everybody who thinks about it has to agree that that's ridiculous. And so who's doing this? I don't think it's Republicans.

BROWN: You don't think it's Republicans? You don't think that this thing really gained momentum because the "Wall Street Journal," "The Weekly Standard," Bill Bennett (ph), "The National Review," we could go on and on. But, in any case, the people on the right really laid this out. This story sat there for two days and didn't go anywhere until the "Journal" and "The Weekly Standard" weighed in.

HATCH: I don't agree with that. I think that we've had a steady drum beat in the media that's been almost offensive at this point. It certainly hasn't been fair to this man. And I agree, he deserved to be criticized. He shouldn't have said that. He shouldn't have said it that way.

But, on the other hand, he didn't mean it the way I think many on the left have tried to imply that he did. I think what I'm saying is this, whether from the left or right, and it's been from both sides, whether from the left or right in the media, and it's been from both sides, I think it's time to lay off. It's time to be fair. It's time to forgive.

This is a forgiving nation. And I think it's time to recognize that here's a man who's not only served with distinction but has served as leader in both the House and Senate. Now as a leader, he shouldn't have done that. He made a mistake. But he's now apologized at least five or six times.

I like my friend John Lewis. John Lewis is a gutsy guy. He went through those early days, was beaten up by these cruel people in the south. And he was mistreated. Nobody should have more disdain for people who ignore civil rights than John Lewis.

But John Lewis has forgiven Trent. And I think what's going to happen here is I think Trent will remain as leader, and I think Trent will do even more than ever before to lead the Republican to do what's right in these racial matters. And I'm going to help him. And I think this, in that sense, might turn out to be a pretty good thing.

BROWN: Senator, we appreciate your time, as always. Have a wonderful holiday season out West. Thanks again for joining us.

HATCH: Well, thank you. Nice to be with you. And you and everybody else watching have a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Utah's Senator Orrin Hatch. We talked to him a short time ago.

Next on NEWSNIGHT: is Senator Lott abandoning his Republican principles in an effort to save himself? This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Well, we've said this before. In fact, we said this in our interview a few moments ago with Senator Hatch. That it is, in our view at least, the conservative media and some conservative organizations, like the Family Research Council, that have truly given the Lott story legs. "Weekly Standard" was among the first to go after the senator for his remarks, and now is going after him on his apology in comments last night on Black Entertainment Television.

There, the senator said he supported affirmative action, though he voted against it. And supported a Martin Luther King Jr. holiday, though he voted against that, also. Joining U.S. tonight to talk about those things and more, Christopher Caldwell of "The Weekly Standard" magazine. Nice to see you, Christopher. Thanks for joining us.

So when you say you heard him say that he supported affirmative action last night, do you think, A, he actually believes that?

CHRISTOPHER CALDWELL, SENIOR EDITOR, "THE WEEKLY STANDARD": No.

BROWN: So what was he doing?

CALDWELL: Well, he is trying to backtrack and achieve his own atonement by bargaining away the positions of the Republican Party. I mean, the essence of the problem with what Lott said at the Thurmond birthday was that it was an assault on the Constitution. He reopened questions that ought not to be opened.

Now he's going back and declaring closed questions that ought to be open. People ought to debate affirmative action. He shouldn't just move into lock step with the Democratic position. And that's an indication that Republicans will pay a huge policy price if they hang on to Lott.

BROWN: Well, don't you think -- actually, I may be wrong on this, but what Republicans will do here is say, well, we support affirmative action, too. We just don't support quotas, and there's a difference. And that's the argument that he and they and perhaps even you will make.

CALDWELL: Yeah, but that is a phony argument. The real meat of the argument is, are the issues raised in this affirmative action case that's coming before the Supreme Court now, this University of Michigan case? Do you have de facto quotas in any affirmative action program? I wouldn't want to be a Republican and see this whole issue foreclosed just by the need to win personal points for the party leader.

BROWN: So it is a practical matter from your view that the senator should go, at least from the leadership position, that it will make moving a Republican agenda impossible.

CALDWELL: Well, it's not just a practical matter. This is a frontal attack on the Constitution as most Americans understand it. I think that is the key issue.

I don't think this is about being forgiving, as Orrin Hatch says. Of course we can forgive Trent Lott. We just can't have a person in a leadership position who thinks that way about the Constitution.

BROWN: Well, in a sense, though, aren't you saying that Senator Lott said no reasonable person would say is that the senator was longing for, at the very least, a day when the country was segregated.

CALDWELL: You know, I'd go back over the remarks. I have seen the video. I can't see any other interpretation of it. This does not mean he's a racist. I don't know what's in his mind. But this was an espousal of a party that existed to perpetuate Jim Crow. It just doesn't seem very ambiguous to me.

BROWN: We've got about a minute here and maybe this is unfair, but do you think any of the reaction from the Republicans and from conservatives generally is a defensiveness on the subject of race itself? Fair or not, that Republicans are defensive on this issue, and here it was sort of right in their face and they had to say something. CALDWELL: Well, they're definitely defensive. You look at the first reaction of someone like Orrin Hatch is to run to the opinion of someone like John Lewis. They say well, look, even Democrats think this, too. There are two ways to look at this.

Either Republicans are angry because they think Lott has revealed something about the party that they'd rather keep hidden or they're angry because they think he has misrepresented the party. I tend to think it's the latter, but they're behaving like it's the former.

BROWN: Do you think he's done?

I think he has to be done. You look at -- you just imagine the campaign ads that you'll see in 2004. Here are President Bush and Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott signing a bill that will determine the future of African-Americans. Republicans cannot afford it.

BROWN: Chris, thanks for talking to you. Thanks for coming in. Have a good holiday.

CALDWELL: You, too.

BROWN: Thank you.

Senior editor of the weekly standard. Few quick items before we go to break here. Starting with the war crimes tribunal (UNINTELLIGIBLE) . Former Secretary of State Madeline Albright testifying today at a sentencing hearing for Bilyana Plasich (ph). Miss Albright told the court that Miss Plasich participated in atrocities when she the leader of the Bosnian Serbs and she also added that she took some part in the peace process, at sop personal risk. Miss Plasich faces life in prison.

At the U.N. today nonpermanent members of Security Council got a look at Iraq's declaration on weapons of mass destruction, censored version was made available to them today. Some complaints about that from Norway's ambassador who called it wrong to treat some members as second class citizens. Though they don't have the right to veto in the Security Council.

In London, three day conference of the Iraqi opposition wrapped up today. Not all sweetness and light. Number of groups walked out complaining that the United States had cut a back room deal with some of the other groups.

Still ahead on NEWSNIGHT has the state of Florida found all its missing children in the months since the disappearance of Rilya Wilson?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: And next, has the state of Florida cleaned up its act on missing children? We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BROWN: It's been over six months since we here and all of you were shocked and saddened by the story of 5-year-old Rilya Wilson, who simply disappeared. While her guardian thought the state of Florida had her and the state of Florida thought her guardians had her. The bad news tonight is Rilya remains missing, lost, as if she were an umbrella instead of a child.

But it may be that there is some good news, if not on the subject of Rilya herself, then at least where many other children apparently misplaced by authorities in Florida are concerned. Those authorities set out to look and find things bad enough, but perhaps not as bad as they feared. Here again CNN's Mark Potter.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARK POTTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The mandate, find hundreds of missing children who are supposed to have been monitored by Florida's Department of Children and Families. State officials say by that measure, operation safe kids was a success.

GOV. JEB BUSH (R), FLORIDA: By the law enforcement's willingness to work with the department and create a better way to identify children, and then to figure out going forward how to tend to their need, I think this is historic.

POTTER: Historic perhaps but the accounting reveals plenty of problems. Of the 393 children originally identified in August as missing, 290 were 75 percent were found alive. One 17-year-old girl was murdered, leaving 102 still unaccounted for. Of those 102, 14 are now considered adults but are still being sought by authorities, leaving 88 missing children. Of those, 68 are listed as run aways and 20 are considered endangered or the victims of parental abductions.

TIM MOORE, FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT: Nine of those 20 we think we've located but are in other countries.

POTTER: The controversy began with the discovery last may that 5-year-old Rilya Wilson had disappeared from foster care. As it turns out, she was last accounted for in January of 2001 and still has not been found. State Representative Nan Rich says while operation safe kids was an important first step, it shows serious lapses in communication between the Department of Children and Families and other agencies.

REP. NAN RICH (D), FLORIDA: Here you have actually children who were located in missing run aways that were located in Department of Juvenile Justice Facilities. I mean, both of them are agencies of the state of Florida who were not talking to each other.

POTTER: State officials insist they are improving communications and monitoring, as well as the reporting of missing children.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

POTTER: Now, in addition to the 88 still missing children detailed in that report, Florida officials say they are now investigating another 211 potentially missing children, most believed to be run aways who are not reported after Operation Safe Kids began.

And Aaron, to put these numbers in some degree of perspective, a sad perspective, Florida officials say on any given day, as many as 48,000 children are under the Florida state Child Well Fair System. Back to you.

BROWN: On any given day, or at least these days in this period since Rilya, does the state continue to lose children?

POTTER: The state still continues to lose children, but it appears that in most of those cases it's because those children ran away, sometimes chronically so.

The state claims that it has now gotten better at finding children and keeping track of children. That was the biggest problem of all. But they now said they have better coordination between law enforcement agencies, between them and the Department of Children and Families and also the various databases involved.

But there's still going to be problems with that many children in the system. But they claim now that they are getting better. But again, we talked to the police today. Going back to the case that started this all, they still have no clue as to where Rilya Wilson is.

BROWN: Mark, thank you. Mark Potter in Miami tonight.

A number of quick stories from around the country here starting in Southern California. Massive flooding from a storm spent much of yesterday battering the northern end of the state. High water snarled traffic down town, set off a fatal crash in Riverside, California, closed the Santa Ana Freeway. That's more in Southern California than the north.

In New York today, guilty plea from a former Tyco International board member. Frank Walsh admitted he failed to disclose a $20 million payment from Tyco in exchange for his help in lining up a corporate takeover, $20 million. His lawyer called it a small mistake. The judge thought it a big one.

And then there's this. A newly revealed tape from Enron. It's a gag real for someone's going away party made about five years ago, before the accounting mess. The bankruptcy on it, a sketch starring Jeffrey Skilling, who was president of Enron, at the time seems like only yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEFFREY SKILLING, ENRON: This is the key. We're gonna move from mark to market accounting to something I call HFV, hypothetical future value accounting.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Whoa!

SKILLING: If we do that, we can add a kazillion dollars to the bottom line.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Apparently someone forgot to tell them they were kidding.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, a fine line between the public's right to know and intruding into a tragedy. This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Next, Houston story, but our dilemma, what's news and what's voyeurism. Short break and we're right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Early yesterday morning in Houston, Texas, this is what people saw on television. A 20-year-old man was climbing up the building, the side of a skyscraper, sort of rock style, when he either jumped or fell. It wasn't clear.

What happened was this at this point. Some Houston stations who had been covering the event, the scaling of this building followed the man to his death all the way down. Others stopped it, as we did.

The question on the table, I guess, is which station was right? Who was right? Were any of them right? Should they have been showing any of this at all?

We're joined now from Houston by Garth Jowett, who's the head of the University of Houston School of Communications. Good to see you.

GARTH JOWETT, UNIVERSITY OF HOUSTON SCHOOL OF COMMUNICATIONS: Thank you, Aaron.

BROWN: This isn't quite as clear cut as story I remember writing a few years back. There was a car chase in Southern California that was covered by all local media. The guy eventually got out of the car and shot himself and that was carried. This sort of thing, no one really knew what was happening right?

JOWETT: Well, you know, it's rather interesting. When I read about it, in fact, on the front page of my Netscape that he had died and mentioned this to the three young ladies in my office, they were appalled, because the last they had heard when they walked from their cars into the office was that he was being covered as sort of hero, a Spiderman climbing this building. We've had several such incidents in Houston in the last couple years and so in context, it appeared to be yet another one of these crazy guys about to climb a building, and we had one who did that and threw himself off with a parachute when he got to the top. So nobody had any idea of the imminent tragedy that was about to happen.

BROWN: And we know, hindsight being what it is, we know a fair amount more about the young man and what, in fact, he was doing up there that news directors couldn't have known at the time.

Nevertheless, once he jumped, what's the argument for staying with it? JOWETT: Well, I think, you know, I'm kind of a radical on this. I have changed my mind like Trent Lott has on some things. I used to, in fact, believe that you needed to show this kind of thing, that you should cut away immediately and it was unnecessary.

But I am a historian by training. I have watched and understood how the media have gradually become more visual in our society. It was some time in the 1960s that Americans decided that they got most of their news from television. And I think that in a society where we have elected to get most of our news through the visual media of television and film, that we should be prepared for these kinds of events in a much better way than we are.

We're still turning cameras off after all of these years when, in actual fact, cameras should be showing people the kind of news that happens every day.

BROWN: But, you know -- sir, this is really interesting to me, because in some ways it was a really easy decision for me to make, but -- and for the organization to make but none of us would have shown at the time certainly people -- and we knew it was happening people jumping off the Trade Center.

JOWETT: No, and I think -- see, that's the thing. We have come to certain kinds of decision about what is acceptable and what is not acceptable.

We can certainly show hundreds of Iraqi dead on these sort of -- what was that called? The Road of Hell? The Hell Road? And nobody thinks twice about mangled bodies strewn out of a tank.

But you show one, you know, person jumping out of a building and there is a certain kind of horrific aspect to that.

But I guess my argument is, in a society where we've elected to get all of our news and information through the visual means, what we really need -- and I'm making a plug for -- is some kind of media literacy, where people begin to understand the nature of these events and how to cope with them, because one of the more serious questions, of course, is how do you cope with children who see this kind of event?

BROWN: Right.

JOWETT: And so we should be able to explain to children these things happen. And, you know, they watch this kind of thing every day when they're watching cable television movies. They see far worse things.

BROWN: Yes. Well, all right.

You know, you said earlier that you found your mind has changed on these things over the years. Interestingly, so has mine, but in the other direction. I find -- I found myself much more conservative on these judgments than I ever was before. And the argument that I will lay out here is a simple one. My job is to be the editor. It is not ever to put everything or anything on. It is to make judgments about what should be on and to exercise those judgments. In a sense aren't you arguing the editor's job is now obsolete?

JOWETT: No, I think the editor still has a decision as to what story to put on. But the actual fact is, if you're covering what is legitimate news. Now, the question becomes is somebody climbing the side of a building legitimate news? And obviously in Houston, we've elected to say that it is.

So at that point, the question becomes much like all the gloom and doom that was talked about right after 9/11 about the fact that American media was never going to be the same again. You could never get to be frivolous and so forth. You know how long that lasted.

I think the media underestimates the power of the American viewer to really cope with these things.

BROWN: Professor, thanks for your time and for putting some interesting ideas on the table tonight.

JOWETT: Thank you, Aaron.

BROWN: Thank you very much.

Next on NEWSNIGHT, we go to the Big Easy, which may not be so easy any more. We're right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Finally from us tonight, a trip down the Big Muddy, to New Orleans, which did not invent sin, but has worked diligently for a long time to perfect it.

As Ed Lavandera reports now, the Big Easy may not be quite so easy anymore.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the only place I ever sing like this. You can do anything you want.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): That's not quite true anymore.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a certain seedy element. But, you know, I mean, it's certainly not Disney World. That's for sure.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Something had to be done, because the quality of the life for the French Quarter was deteriorating.

LAVANDERA: Since June, almost 10,000 people have been arrested in the French Quarter. Child tap dancers have almost vanished, shoe shiners, or hustlers, as police all them, are harder to find. The goal has been to root out criminals using the Quarter as their playground.

JACQUELYN CLARKSON, NEW ORLEANS CITY COUNCIL MEMBER: We don't want to be a third world country. We want to be a Bohemian, multicultural...

LAVANDERA: Was this area becoming third world, do you think?

CLARKSON: Oh, absolutely. It had gone to depths of despair. Absolutely.

SIDNEY SMITH, VAMPIRE TOUR OPERATOR: This is the French Quarter. This is night time.

LAVANDERA: Sidney Smith operates a vampire tour company. He sees the seedy side of the French Quarter as part of its charm, and the crackdown as a threat to his business.

SMITH: What they're trying to do is remove the ambience of the French Quarter, in my opinion, and what many people come down here for.

LAVANDERA: The Quarter's higher profile residents, like Gennifer Flowers...

GENNIFER FLOWERS, FRENCH QUARTER RESIDENT: In just the last several months, we've just seen an incredible difference...

LAVANDERA: ....are on board with the cleanup effort. Flowers opened The Kelsto Club (ph), just off Bourbon Street a year ago.

FLOWERS: here was a time when you might see somebody tinkling right here.

LAVANDERA: Flowers believes this crackdown will save the French Quarter and reinvigorate tourism.

FLOWERS: What we don't allow any longer are those that pretend to be street performers, but are actually hustlers that are trying to take advantage of the tourists and the local people.

LAVANDERA: That can happen as you walk the French Quarter. We came across this man singing Marvin Gaye for two young admirers. They left a small tip. But our crooner wanted more.

(on camera): So a dollar's not enough for a song?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Give me $2. That's all I said.

LAVANDERA (voice-over): This is what police are trying to prevent.

CAPT. MARLON DEFILLO, NEW ORLEANS POLICE DEPARTMENT: We're talking about a new generation of individuals who have decided to come down to the French Quarter, who have decided to try to extort money from tourists, who have tried to threaten locals. Those are individuals that we're talking about who are taking the flavor from New Orleans and keeping the folks from coming down here

LAVANDERA: Critics complain prosecution is too selective. We came across street mime John Casey.

(on camera): Is he breaking the ordinance in any way?

DEFILLO: No, he's not. I think he truly represents what New Orleans has to offer. He's the true flavor of New Orleans.

LAVANDERA (voice-over): Later, we went back to Casey, and he told us he was recently charged with disturbing the peace and blocking a sidewalk.

JOHN CASEY, STREET MIME ARTIST: One day you'll be out here working and next day you'll be working and you'll get arrested. Don't make no sense.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's almost a Gestapo thing. They're sweeping the streets to clean it up. They're trying to cleanse the French Quarter of anyone they deem is not politically correct.

LAVANDERA: Police say they're just enforcing laws that have been on the books but mostly ignored. They're not trying to rid the Quarter of its most popular attractions.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can get drunk and still see the breasts, drop your pants and have a good time in this city.

LAVANDERA: If that ever stops, that might give some on Bourbon Street reason to sing the blues.

Ed Lavendera, CNN, New Orleans.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: We believe if you stay to the end you should be rewarded.

We'll see you tomorrow. Good night for all of us at NEWSNIGHT.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





Leader; Pentagon Will Deploy Missile Defense System By 2004;>


Aired December 17, 2002 - 22:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, HOST: Good evening again.
OK, we can't deny it much any longer. There really is something funny going on around here. Suddenly, we're living in a world in which New York transit workers don't go on strike, Trent Lott comes out in favor of affirmative action and McDonald's is losing money.

When the company made that announcement today it knocked U.S. for a loop. In its entire history, McDonald's has never ever lost a dime and never stopped growing either. That's also changing. The losses come from the cost of closing locations, not opening new ones.

So is this the high watermark for an empire with 30,000 outposts in 121 countries? One day, when you're bouncing your grandchildren on your knee, will they ask you, grandpa, where were you when the golden arches came tumbling down? Well, thousands of teenagers once again have time to spend at home, say, mowing the lawn. Does this mean some day the French will like U.S. again?

Will they forgive U.S. for giving them Le Big Mac? Probably not, but stranger things have happened. And indeed seem to be happening this week.

On to "The Whip" now and the tribulations of the junior Senator from the state of Mississippi.

CNN's Jonathan Karl has the duty again tonight. Jon, start U.S. off with a headline, please.

JONATHAN KARL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: With Trent Lott's future increasingly uncertain, he's vowed today to fight to remain in his position as Senate majority leader.

BROWN: Jon, thank you. Back to you at the top tonight.

The Pentagon next, and a decision on missile defense. CNN's Jamie McIntyre with that. Jamie, the headline from you.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, the Pentagon's thinking is something like this: if you don't have a defense against missiles, you're spending billions to build one, why not deploy it sooner than later? Today President Bush said, Go for it.

BROWN: Jamie, thank you. To Venezuela next, a country caught in the middle of a political crisis, with millions of barrels of oil at stake. CNN's Harris Whitbeck on the video phone. A headline, please.

HARRIS WHITBECK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

BROWN: We'll fill in the rest of the words later. In Miami, it's a question once again of missing children. CNN's Mark Potter is there with the headline tonight. Mark, use all the words, please.

MARK POTTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I certainly will, Aaron. After a three-month investigation, Florida officials say they have found nearly 300 missing children from the child welfare system, and it appears they may have some 300 more to go, mostly runaways -- Aaron.

BROWN: Thank you, Mark. It is so much easier to understand that way. Back with all of you shortly.

Also tonight, we'll hear what a leading Senate Republican has to say about Trent Lott and his party's record on race. Utah Senator Orrin Hatch is with U.S. tonight.

And a man climbed a skyscraper in Houston, Texas, then jumped or fell to his death. Some local stations carried it live. Others chose not to. Who made the right call? We'll explore the tensions between the need to know and the human desire to watch, and how the media sorts it all out.

And what happens when you try and take the sin out of a city known as Disneyland for adults? New Orleans cleaning up its act. Is it a good thing or just a lowdown dirty shame? All of that in the hour ahead.

We begin once again with Senator Trent Lott, who finds himself tonight as deep in political quicksand as ever. As deep perhaps as a politician can be without actually drowning. And where's a tree branch when you really need one?

In a moment you'll hear from Orrin Hatch, the Republican senator from Utah, who offers a strong defense of his colleague. But no one with the power to save him, meaning the president of the United States, seems inclined to try. That's becoming clear in so many words, or, more importantly, in so much silence. Here again CNN Capitol Hill correspondent Jonathan Karl.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KARL (voice-over): Trent Lott's fellow Senate Republicans are not now clamoring for his resignation, but most of them are not offering their support either.

SEN. CHUCK GRASSLEY (R), IOWA: And maybe we will have a new leader. But I'm going to wait and not waste any time on that until I have to make that decision.

KARL: With headlines in the newspapers declaring President Bush wouldn't mind seeing Lott go, the official White House line is that, although the president doesn't think Lott needs to resign, he will not side with him in a leadership battle. ARI FLEISCHER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Senators have indicated they are calling for a meeting on January 6, and the White House will not comment on that meeting or anything leading up to that meeting.

KARL: Republicans are divided. GOP Senate sources say, at this point, Lott does not have enough support to stay on as leader. But there are not enough votes to remove him either. And Lott himself is determined to fight, telling ABC, "I'm the son of a shipyard worker from Pascagoula, Mississippi I've have to fight all my life, and I'm not stopping now."

And he has the support of some key Republicans, including Ted Stevens, the incoming appropriations chairman and the most senior GOP Senator, who said, "I'm going to go back and I'm going to defend my friend. And I'm going to tell him he stays as our leader."

Rick Santorum, the No. 3 Republican in the Senate, also reaffirmed his support for Lott. But Jim Talent, the newly elected Senator from Missouri, took an unusual step for a freshman, suggesting in a statement that Lott is too weak to push for the GOP agenda. "There is now a substantial question as to whether Senator Lott has the capacity to move that agenda forward."

Democrats are content to sit on the sidelines for now. Tom Daschle told CNN the idea of censuring Lott is now on hold.

(on camera): Should he be censured by the Senate?

SEN. TOM DASCHLE (D-SD), MAJORITY LEADER: Well, it looks like events have gone beyond that. Now the caucus is looking as if they may be examining whether he should be leader. So until that decision is made, I think anything else is too speculative.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KARL: There is widespread frustration, as you can imagine, Aaron, among Republicans that this whole situation could drag out with uncertainty until January 6. Many of those Republicans here have been telling each other that they would like to see Trent Lott resign and simply put this problem behind the party.

But Trent Lott's allies, Trent Lott himself, have made it very clear that he has absolutely no intention of resigning. They say that is something that's not going to happen -- Aaron.

BROWN: It's not going to happen yet. You know, it's a couple -- we've got a couple weeks to go. It's unimaginable, I would think, if you're a Republican, that every day for the next two weeks, three weeks, really, we're going to be going through this drill again and again counting noses. That's what they're afraid of, though, isn't it?

KARL: That's exactly what they're afraid of. And some of them are hoping -- one very senior Republican aide up here said what we need is three wise men, not to go to Bethlehem, but to go down to Pascagoula, Mississippi, to have a discussion with Trent Lott, to explain to him the situation and encourage him to step aside. Three Republican elder statesmen, maybe senators, maybe people outside the Senate. But right now, again, Lott supporters are adamant that he is simply not going to step aside.

But, of course, there's reality. If somebody went to him and showed him the names of 26, 27 senators that wanted him to go, of course that would change the situation.

BROWN: Jon, thank you. I think we're all going to work over the holidays. Jonathan Karl on Capitol Hill tonight.

On now to the president's decision to deploy a limited defense against ballistic missiles. A piece of history, first. Twenty-seven years ago, after years of bitter fighting over whether missile defense would work and billions of dollars spent on research, the United States put a lone ABM (ph) site into operation. A day later, Congress voted to shut it down.

Twenty-seven years later, after billions more dollars and even more bitter debate, the country is set to try again. And so here again CNN's Jamie McIntyre.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE (voice-over): Even though the latest U.S. missile defense test last week failed when a booster didn't separate, the Pentagon insists its hit-to-kill technology has worked four of five times this year.

LT. GEN. RONALD KADISH, MISSILE DEFENSE AGENCY: Our fundamental technology of hit to kill collision of the interceptor with the warheads that completely destroys the war warheads works.

MCINTYRE: The goal, to produce a system of interceptors and radars that, by 2004, could, for example, detect, track and knock down a missile launched by North Korea before it could hit any of the 50 United States. Price tag: an additional $1.5 billion added to the $8 billion a year the U.S. is already spending on the program.

LISBETH GRONLUND, UNION OF CONCERNED SCIENTISTS: I think it is a waste of money to deploy. I mean, it's really still in the very early stages of research and development. If this were any other military system, there would be no talk of deploying it.

MCINTYRE: Still, better than nothing argues the Pentagon.

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: I wouldn't want to overplay it, I wouldn't want to oversell it. I wouldn't want to suggest that it has a depth or breadth or capability that it will take some time to evolve.

MCINTYRE: By 2005, the plan calls for 16 land-based interceptor missiles at Fort Greeley, Alaska, four interceptors at Vandenberg Air Force Base in California. The use of radars in Greenland and Great Britain. Modifying three Aegis ships to carry 20 interceptors, and 346 new patriot missiles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE: The Pentagon does admit that, initially, this system would have a limited value of protection. But they still think it would have some deterrent value, particularly for countries like North Korea, which might be tempted to fire a missile at the United States, but also against other potential adversaries who might have second thoughts about spending all the time, effort and money to acquire missiles knowing that the U.S. will only be improving its missile shield in the future -- Aaron.

BROWN: And the decision to put them in Alaska and on the West Coast presumes that the threats are from Asia, from China and North Korea?

MCINTYRE: Well, these missiles are best positioned to hit threats from Asia, but when they get this system together, in fact, they'll be able to counter missiles that come from any part of the world, including the Middle East, even though they're from those areas. If you think about how missiles might come over, a lot of them coming from the Middle East would come over the polar area, and missiles in Alaska would be positioned to hit those. In future, as the system grows, they'll add other sites, perhaps even in other countries.

BROWN: Jamie, thank you. Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon tonight.

Venezuela's our next stop. This story has somewhat gotten buried in the avalanche of domestic news, political news and war news. It surfaces now because the events unfolding there may, in fact, have a bearing on both. Venezuela exports a lot of oil to the United States, but hasn't exported more than a few drops since the country fell into political turmoil.

So why is this happening? What are the stakes? And why should you care? Questions answered tonight by CNN's Harris Whitbeck.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WHITBECK (voice-over): Shooting in the streets. Anger everywhere. Tanker ships float idle, their hulls filled with gasoline that cannot get to market. Thousands wait for hours for what little the government has in reserve.

Venezuela is the second largest supplier of oil to the United States, but what began as a general strike has paralyzed the country's oil industry. It's become a weapon against the government here, as Venezuelans battle over who should lead their country.

JULIO BORGES, OPPOSITION LEADER (through translator): This has become a citizen's rebellion. It has gone beyond the work stoppage. This is about citizens demanding a change in the course their country is taking. WHITBECK: For more than a year now, President Hugo Chavez has faced an increasingly vocal opposition. Mainly middle class and elite from the business community. In power since 2001, Chavez has vowed to completely restructure Venezuela's social and economic framework.

Unhappy with his economic policies and his leftist politics, the opposition is demanding he either resign or call early elections. Last April, Chavez was even ousted for two days during a coup that eventually failed. On Sunday, he insisted he is not leaving office until the constitution he helped write allows a recall election.

The president has won a strong show of support from the head of the Venezuelan army, who said the opposition's efforts amount to sabotage against the country's economic infrastructure. And Chavez has supporters. Mostly the poor who have responded to his populous policies, have vowed to fight to the death to defend him.

The crisis has the attention of the White House, which Friday called for early elections. Venezuela's president called that intervention, which Monday the White House denied.

FLEISCHER: The most important way the president believes that peace can come to the people of Venezuela is through the Venezuelan people. The United States stands ready to play a constructive role through the Organization of American States and with the OAS to help them achieve that.

For weeks the secretary general of the Organization of American States has tried to find a solution to the crisis. He is frustrated and concerned.

CESAR GAVIRIA, SECRETARY GENERAL, THE ORGANIZATION OF AMERICAN STATES: While I was not expecting what would be that tensions will increase the way they have done, and that we had such a short time to find a solution.

WHITBECK: Both sides feel they have the winning edge. Chavez, with the support of the military and the country's majority poor.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITBECK: And the opposition, with hundreds of thousands in the streets, who every day seem more determined to stay there until the president is removed. Every day more tension and more passion. And, Aaron, neither side seems willing to give in -- Aaron.

BROWN: Has anybody figured out even a plan for a compromise, where a compromise might work?

WHITBECK: Everybody seems to agree that -- every observer seems to agree that an electorate solution would be the most viable one, Aaron. But the president is insisting on the fact that the Venezuelan constitution does not allow for an early election unless there's a referendum in August 2003. The secretary general of the OAS, United States, and several other international observers and facilitators are trying to work out a way between the opposition and the government out of this mess. A way that would be legal. It's just going to take a long time to find it.

BROWN: And, Harris, does the opposition have a single clear leader?

WHITBECK: No, and that's been one of the problems that the opposition has faced. There are several different business groups, several different opposition political parties, and several civic organizations that have arisen in the last year. Every one of them seems to have a common agenda that they want Mr. Chavez out, but there's not one clear leader. In fact, many observers say that, if there were a new election tomorrow a month from now, Mr. Chavez might win it again, precisely because the opposition does not have that one figure it needs.

BROWN: Harris, thank you. Harris Whitbeck in Caracas, Venezuela, where much of your oil comes from.

Still ahead on NEWSNIGHT: Florida finds many of its so-called missing children, yet dozens remain missing tonight.

And up next: we talk with Senator Orrin Hatch of Utah about the troubles for his friend and colleague, Trent Lott. This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Trent Lott isn't going to have to face the voters in Mississippi again until 2007. So at this point there really are just 50 people whose votes matter to him. Those are the 50 Republican senators who could decide they don't want him to be their leader anymore.

So far, the silence from most of them has been deafening. A short time ago we talked with Utah Senator Orrin Hatch, who was strongly supportive of the Mississippi senator.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Senator Hatch, we're at a point now where it seems like the long knives are out. Does Senator Lott stay or go, what do you think?

SEN. ORRIN HATCH (R), UTAH: Well, first of all, I agreed with what the president had to say in criticizing the language. It was dumb language. It was terrible.

I have to say, you have to put it in context, because it was language which was intended to cheer up and warm up a wonderful senator of many, many years, 100 years old. So it was dumb, it shouldn't have been done. He shouldn't have done that.

But now let's think about this. What rational person would think that Trent Lott was trying to say that he wanted to re-segregate America? I don't think any rational person would think that, so why is the piling on going on and on after, as of my count, at least five or six apologies? This country is a fair country. We're a forgiving country.

This man has given 30 years of service to the United States of America. And whether you agree with him or don't, my gosh, here's a very good man who's made a terrible mistake, and I think at this point it's piling on to just keep piling on him. Again, I'd ask, in fairness, what rational person would conclude that Trent Lott, who served for 30 years with distinction in both houses of Congress was calling for the re-segregation of America? Well, nobody.

So this is being turned into a political fiasco rather than something that is fair. And I think it's time to call for fairness, forgiveness, and let's go from there.

BROWN: Maybe I'm reading this wrong, that happens from time to time. But it seems to me the longest of the long knives here are coming from conservatives, conservative organizations, conservative publications. They're coming from the senator's own party.

HATCH: Well, I think that's probably true in some ways, because no one in the Republican Party, after all we're doing to try and work with minorities and to embrace everybody in our Republican Party, which I think we made great strides on, and which this president is doing a terrific job in doing, I think people are very upset about the fact that Senator Lott has been caught in this dilemma.

BROWN: Do you think Republicans are defensive on the subject of race? Whether they have reason to be or not, that their reaction to this has been a defensive reaction because they believe on this issue they have problems?

HATCH: Well, there have been plenty of Democrats trying to make this a big issue of race, pulling the race card. It's pulled in every election, and so Republicans are a little bit defensive on it, because these unjustified accusations -- how could it be more unjustified than to try and make the case that Trent Lott was calling for a re- segregated America? I mean, that's ridiculous, and everybody who thinks about it has to agree that that's ridiculous. And so who's doing this? I don't think it's Republicans.

BROWN: You don't think it's Republicans? You don't think that this thing really gained momentum because the "Wall Street Journal," "The Weekly Standard," Bill Bennett (ph), "The National Review," we could go on and on. But, in any case, the people on the right really laid this out. This story sat there for two days and didn't go anywhere until the "Journal" and "The Weekly Standard" weighed in.

HATCH: I don't agree with that. I think that we've had a steady drum beat in the media that's been almost offensive at this point. It certainly hasn't been fair to this man. And I agree, he deserved to be criticized. He shouldn't have said that. He shouldn't have said it that way.

But, on the other hand, he didn't mean it the way I think many on the left have tried to imply that he did. I think what I'm saying is this, whether from the left or right, and it's been from both sides, whether from the left or right in the media, and it's been from both sides, I think it's time to lay off. It's time to be fair. It's time to forgive.

This is a forgiving nation. And I think it's time to recognize that here's a man who's not only served with distinction but has served as leader in both the House and Senate. Now as a leader, he shouldn't have done that. He made a mistake. But he's now apologized at least five or six times.

I like my friend John Lewis. John Lewis is a gutsy guy. He went through those early days, was beaten up by these cruel people in the south. And he was mistreated. Nobody should have more disdain for people who ignore civil rights than John Lewis.

But John Lewis has forgiven Trent. And I think what's going to happen here is I think Trent will remain as leader, and I think Trent will do even more than ever before to lead the Republican to do what's right in these racial matters. And I'm going to help him. And I think this, in that sense, might turn out to be a pretty good thing.

BROWN: Senator, we appreciate your time, as always. Have a wonderful holiday season out West. Thanks again for joining us.

HATCH: Well, thank you. Nice to be with you. And you and everybody else watching have a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Utah's Senator Orrin Hatch. We talked to him a short time ago.

Next on NEWSNIGHT: is Senator Lott abandoning his Republican principles in an effort to save himself? This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Well, we've said this before. In fact, we said this in our interview a few moments ago with Senator Hatch. That it is, in our view at least, the conservative media and some conservative organizations, like the Family Research Council, that have truly given the Lott story legs. "Weekly Standard" was among the first to go after the senator for his remarks, and now is going after him on his apology in comments last night on Black Entertainment Television.

There, the senator said he supported affirmative action, though he voted against it. And supported a Martin Luther King Jr. holiday, though he voted against that, also. Joining U.S. tonight to talk about those things and more, Christopher Caldwell of "The Weekly Standard" magazine. Nice to see you, Christopher. Thanks for joining us.

So when you say you heard him say that he supported affirmative action last night, do you think, A, he actually believes that?

CHRISTOPHER CALDWELL, SENIOR EDITOR, "THE WEEKLY STANDARD": No.

BROWN: So what was he doing?

CALDWELL: Well, he is trying to backtrack and achieve his own atonement by bargaining away the positions of the Republican Party. I mean, the essence of the problem with what Lott said at the Thurmond birthday was that it was an assault on the Constitution. He reopened questions that ought not to be opened.

Now he's going back and declaring closed questions that ought to be open. People ought to debate affirmative action. He shouldn't just move into lock step with the Democratic position. And that's an indication that Republicans will pay a huge policy price if they hang on to Lott.

BROWN: Well, don't you think -- actually, I may be wrong on this, but what Republicans will do here is say, well, we support affirmative action, too. We just don't support quotas, and there's a difference. And that's the argument that he and they and perhaps even you will make.

CALDWELL: Yeah, but that is a phony argument. The real meat of the argument is, are the issues raised in this affirmative action case that's coming before the Supreme Court now, this University of Michigan case? Do you have de facto quotas in any affirmative action program? I wouldn't want to be a Republican and see this whole issue foreclosed just by the need to win personal points for the party leader.

BROWN: So it is a practical matter from your view that the senator should go, at least from the leadership position, that it will make moving a Republican agenda impossible.

CALDWELL: Well, it's not just a practical matter. This is a frontal attack on the Constitution as most Americans understand it. I think that is the key issue.

I don't think this is about being forgiving, as Orrin Hatch says. Of course we can forgive Trent Lott. We just can't have a person in a leadership position who thinks that way about the Constitution.

BROWN: Well, in a sense, though, aren't you saying that Senator Lott said no reasonable person would say is that the senator was longing for, at the very least, a day when the country was segregated.

CALDWELL: You know, I'd go back over the remarks. I have seen the video. I can't see any other interpretation of it. This does not mean he's a racist. I don't know what's in his mind. But this was an espousal of a party that existed to perpetuate Jim Crow. It just doesn't seem very ambiguous to me.

BROWN: We've got about a minute here and maybe this is unfair, but do you think any of the reaction from the Republicans and from conservatives generally is a defensiveness on the subject of race itself? Fair or not, that Republicans are defensive on this issue, and here it was sort of right in their face and they had to say something. CALDWELL: Well, they're definitely defensive. You look at the first reaction of someone like Orrin Hatch is to run to the opinion of someone like John Lewis. They say well, look, even Democrats think this, too. There are two ways to look at this.

Either Republicans are angry because they think Lott has revealed something about the party that they'd rather keep hidden or they're angry because they think he has misrepresented the party. I tend to think it's the latter, but they're behaving like it's the former.

BROWN: Do you think he's done?

I think he has to be done. You look at -- you just imagine the campaign ads that you'll see in 2004. Here are President Bush and Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott signing a bill that will determine the future of African-Americans. Republicans cannot afford it.

BROWN: Chris, thanks for talking to you. Thanks for coming in. Have a good holiday.

CALDWELL: You, too.

BROWN: Thank you.

Senior editor of the weekly standard. Few quick items before we go to break here. Starting with the war crimes tribunal (UNINTELLIGIBLE) . Former Secretary of State Madeline Albright testifying today at a sentencing hearing for Bilyana Plasich (ph). Miss Albright told the court that Miss Plasich participated in atrocities when she the leader of the Bosnian Serbs and she also added that she took some part in the peace process, at sop personal risk. Miss Plasich faces life in prison.

At the U.N. today nonpermanent members of Security Council got a look at Iraq's declaration on weapons of mass destruction, censored version was made available to them today. Some complaints about that from Norway's ambassador who called it wrong to treat some members as second class citizens. Though they don't have the right to veto in the Security Council.

In London, three day conference of the Iraqi opposition wrapped up today. Not all sweetness and light. Number of groups walked out complaining that the United States had cut a back room deal with some of the other groups.

Still ahead on NEWSNIGHT has the state of Florida found all its missing children in the months since the disappearance of Rilya Wilson?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: And next, has the state of Florida cleaned up its act on missing children? We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BROWN: It's been over six months since we here and all of you were shocked and saddened by the story of 5-year-old Rilya Wilson, who simply disappeared. While her guardian thought the state of Florida had her and the state of Florida thought her guardians had her. The bad news tonight is Rilya remains missing, lost, as if she were an umbrella instead of a child.

But it may be that there is some good news, if not on the subject of Rilya herself, then at least where many other children apparently misplaced by authorities in Florida are concerned. Those authorities set out to look and find things bad enough, but perhaps not as bad as they feared. Here again CNN's Mark Potter.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARK POTTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The mandate, find hundreds of missing children who are supposed to have been monitored by Florida's Department of Children and Families. State officials say by that measure, operation safe kids was a success.

GOV. JEB BUSH (R), FLORIDA: By the law enforcement's willingness to work with the department and create a better way to identify children, and then to figure out going forward how to tend to their need, I think this is historic.

POTTER: Historic perhaps but the accounting reveals plenty of problems. Of the 393 children originally identified in August as missing, 290 were 75 percent were found alive. One 17-year-old girl was murdered, leaving 102 still unaccounted for. Of those 102, 14 are now considered adults but are still being sought by authorities, leaving 88 missing children. Of those, 68 are listed as run aways and 20 are considered endangered or the victims of parental abductions.

TIM MOORE, FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT: Nine of those 20 we think we've located but are in other countries.

POTTER: The controversy began with the discovery last may that 5-year-old Rilya Wilson had disappeared from foster care. As it turns out, she was last accounted for in January of 2001 and still has not been found. State Representative Nan Rich says while operation safe kids was an important first step, it shows serious lapses in communication between the Department of Children and Families and other agencies.

REP. NAN RICH (D), FLORIDA: Here you have actually children who were located in missing run aways that were located in Department of Juvenile Justice Facilities. I mean, both of them are agencies of the state of Florida who were not talking to each other.

POTTER: State officials insist they are improving communications and monitoring, as well as the reporting of missing children.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

POTTER: Now, in addition to the 88 still missing children detailed in that report, Florida officials say they are now investigating another 211 potentially missing children, most believed to be run aways who are not reported after Operation Safe Kids began.

And Aaron, to put these numbers in some degree of perspective, a sad perspective, Florida officials say on any given day, as many as 48,000 children are under the Florida state Child Well Fair System. Back to you.

BROWN: On any given day, or at least these days in this period since Rilya, does the state continue to lose children?

POTTER: The state still continues to lose children, but it appears that in most of those cases it's because those children ran away, sometimes chronically so.

The state claims that it has now gotten better at finding children and keeping track of children. That was the biggest problem of all. But they now said they have better coordination between law enforcement agencies, between them and the Department of Children and Families and also the various databases involved.

But there's still going to be problems with that many children in the system. But they claim now that they are getting better. But again, we talked to the police today. Going back to the case that started this all, they still have no clue as to where Rilya Wilson is.

BROWN: Mark, thank you. Mark Potter in Miami tonight.

A number of quick stories from around the country here starting in Southern California. Massive flooding from a storm spent much of yesterday battering the northern end of the state. High water snarled traffic down town, set off a fatal crash in Riverside, California, closed the Santa Ana Freeway. That's more in Southern California than the north.

In New York today, guilty plea from a former Tyco International board member. Frank Walsh admitted he failed to disclose a $20 million payment from Tyco in exchange for his help in lining up a corporate takeover, $20 million. His lawyer called it a small mistake. The judge thought it a big one.

And then there's this. A newly revealed tape from Enron. It's a gag real for someone's going away party made about five years ago, before the accounting mess. The bankruptcy on it, a sketch starring Jeffrey Skilling, who was president of Enron, at the time seems like only yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEFFREY SKILLING, ENRON: This is the key. We're gonna move from mark to market accounting to something I call HFV, hypothetical future value accounting.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Whoa!

SKILLING: If we do that, we can add a kazillion dollars to the bottom line.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Apparently someone forgot to tell them they were kidding.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, a fine line between the public's right to know and intruding into a tragedy. This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Next, Houston story, but our dilemma, what's news and what's voyeurism. Short break and we're right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Early yesterday morning in Houston, Texas, this is what people saw on television. A 20-year-old man was climbing up the building, the side of a skyscraper, sort of rock style, when he either jumped or fell. It wasn't clear.

What happened was this at this point. Some Houston stations who had been covering the event, the scaling of this building followed the man to his death all the way down. Others stopped it, as we did.

The question on the table, I guess, is which station was right? Who was right? Were any of them right? Should they have been showing any of this at all?

We're joined now from Houston by Garth Jowett, who's the head of the University of Houston School of Communications. Good to see you.

GARTH JOWETT, UNIVERSITY OF HOUSTON SCHOOL OF COMMUNICATIONS: Thank you, Aaron.

BROWN: This isn't quite as clear cut as story I remember writing a few years back. There was a car chase in Southern California that was covered by all local media. The guy eventually got out of the car and shot himself and that was carried. This sort of thing, no one really knew what was happening right?

JOWETT: Well, you know, it's rather interesting. When I read about it, in fact, on the front page of my Netscape that he had died and mentioned this to the three young ladies in my office, they were appalled, because the last they had heard when they walked from their cars into the office was that he was being covered as sort of hero, a Spiderman climbing this building. We've had several such incidents in Houston in the last couple years and so in context, it appeared to be yet another one of these crazy guys about to climb a building, and we had one who did that and threw himself off with a parachute when he got to the top. So nobody had any idea of the imminent tragedy that was about to happen.

BROWN: And we know, hindsight being what it is, we know a fair amount more about the young man and what, in fact, he was doing up there that news directors couldn't have known at the time.

Nevertheless, once he jumped, what's the argument for staying with it? JOWETT: Well, I think, you know, I'm kind of a radical on this. I have changed my mind like Trent Lott has on some things. I used to, in fact, believe that you needed to show this kind of thing, that you should cut away immediately and it was unnecessary.

But I am a historian by training. I have watched and understood how the media have gradually become more visual in our society. It was some time in the 1960s that Americans decided that they got most of their news from television. And I think that in a society where we have elected to get most of our news through the visual media of television and film, that we should be prepared for these kinds of events in a much better way than we are.

We're still turning cameras off after all of these years when, in actual fact, cameras should be showing people the kind of news that happens every day.

BROWN: But, you know -- sir, this is really interesting to me, because in some ways it was a really easy decision for me to make, but -- and for the organization to make but none of us would have shown at the time certainly people -- and we knew it was happening people jumping off the Trade Center.

JOWETT: No, and I think -- see, that's the thing. We have come to certain kinds of decision about what is acceptable and what is not acceptable.

We can certainly show hundreds of Iraqi dead on these sort of -- what was that called? The Road of Hell? The Hell Road? And nobody thinks twice about mangled bodies strewn out of a tank.

But you show one, you know, person jumping out of a building and there is a certain kind of horrific aspect to that.

But I guess my argument is, in a society where we've elected to get all of our news and information through the visual means, what we really need -- and I'm making a plug for -- is some kind of media literacy, where people begin to understand the nature of these events and how to cope with them, because one of the more serious questions, of course, is how do you cope with children who see this kind of event?

BROWN: Right.

JOWETT: And so we should be able to explain to children these things happen. And, you know, they watch this kind of thing every day when they're watching cable television movies. They see far worse things.

BROWN: Yes. Well, all right.

You know, you said earlier that you found your mind has changed on these things over the years. Interestingly, so has mine, but in the other direction. I find -- I found myself much more conservative on these judgments than I ever was before. And the argument that I will lay out here is a simple one. My job is to be the editor. It is not ever to put everything or anything on. It is to make judgments about what should be on and to exercise those judgments. In a sense aren't you arguing the editor's job is now obsolete?

JOWETT: No, I think the editor still has a decision as to what story to put on. But the actual fact is, if you're covering what is legitimate news. Now, the question becomes is somebody climbing the side of a building legitimate news? And obviously in Houston, we've elected to say that it is.

So at that point, the question becomes much like all the gloom and doom that was talked about right after 9/11 about the fact that American media was never going to be the same again. You could never get to be frivolous and so forth. You know how long that lasted.

I think the media underestimates the power of the American viewer to really cope with these things.

BROWN: Professor, thanks for your time and for putting some interesting ideas on the table tonight.

JOWETT: Thank you, Aaron.

BROWN: Thank you very much.

Next on NEWSNIGHT, we go to the Big Easy, which may not be so easy any more. We're right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Finally from us tonight, a trip down the Big Muddy, to New Orleans, which did not invent sin, but has worked diligently for a long time to perfect it.

As Ed Lavandera reports now, the Big Easy may not be quite so easy anymore.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the only place I ever sing like this. You can do anything you want.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): That's not quite true anymore.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a certain seedy element. But, you know, I mean, it's certainly not Disney World. That's for sure.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Something had to be done, because the quality of the life for the French Quarter was deteriorating.

LAVANDERA: Since June, almost 10,000 people have been arrested in the French Quarter. Child tap dancers have almost vanished, shoe shiners, or hustlers, as police all them, are harder to find. The goal has been to root out criminals using the Quarter as their playground.

JACQUELYN CLARKSON, NEW ORLEANS CITY COUNCIL MEMBER: We don't want to be a third world country. We want to be a Bohemian, multicultural...

LAVANDERA: Was this area becoming third world, do you think?

CLARKSON: Oh, absolutely. It had gone to depths of despair. Absolutely.

SIDNEY SMITH, VAMPIRE TOUR OPERATOR: This is the French Quarter. This is night time.

LAVANDERA: Sidney Smith operates a vampire tour company. He sees the seedy side of the French Quarter as part of its charm, and the crackdown as a threat to his business.

SMITH: What they're trying to do is remove the ambience of the French Quarter, in my opinion, and what many people come down here for.

LAVANDERA: The Quarter's higher profile residents, like Gennifer Flowers...

GENNIFER FLOWERS, FRENCH QUARTER RESIDENT: In just the last several months, we've just seen an incredible difference...

LAVANDERA: ....are on board with the cleanup effort. Flowers opened The Kelsto Club (ph), just off Bourbon Street a year ago.

FLOWERS: here was a time when you might see somebody tinkling right here.

LAVANDERA: Flowers believes this crackdown will save the French Quarter and reinvigorate tourism.

FLOWERS: What we don't allow any longer are those that pretend to be street performers, but are actually hustlers that are trying to take advantage of the tourists and the local people.

LAVANDERA: That can happen as you walk the French Quarter. We came across this man singing Marvin Gaye for two young admirers. They left a small tip. But our crooner wanted more.

(on camera): So a dollar's not enough for a song?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Give me $2. That's all I said.

LAVANDERA (voice-over): This is what police are trying to prevent.

CAPT. MARLON DEFILLO, NEW ORLEANS POLICE DEPARTMENT: We're talking about a new generation of individuals who have decided to come down to the French Quarter, who have decided to try to extort money from tourists, who have tried to threaten locals. Those are individuals that we're talking about who are taking the flavor from New Orleans and keeping the folks from coming down here

LAVANDERA: Critics complain prosecution is too selective. We came across street mime John Casey.

(on camera): Is he breaking the ordinance in any way?

DEFILLO: No, he's not. I think he truly represents what New Orleans has to offer. He's the true flavor of New Orleans.

LAVANDERA (voice-over): Later, we went back to Casey, and he told us he was recently charged with disturbing the peace and blocking a sidewalk.

JOHN CASEY, STREET MIME ARTIST: One day you'll be out here working and next day you'll be working and you'll get arrested. Don't make no sense.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's almost a Gestapo thing. They're sweeping the streets to clean it up. They're trying to cleanse the French Quarter of anyone they deem is not politically correct.

LAVANDERA: Police say they're just enforcing laws that have been on the books but mostly ignored. They're not trying to rid the Quarter of its most popular attractions.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can get drunk and still see the breasts, drop your pants and have a good time in this city.

LAVANDERA: If that ever stops, that might give some on Bourbon Street reason to sing the blues.

Ed Lavendera, CNN, New Orleans.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: We believe if you stay to the end you should be rewarded.

We'll see you tomorrow. Good night for all of us at NEWSNIGHT.

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