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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown

International Weapons Inspectors Say Iraq's Weapons Declaration Is Not Enough; Tornado Hits Mississippi

Aired December 19, 2002 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


AARON BROWN, HOST: Good evening again. I'm Aaron Brown.
Where the Trent Lott matter is concerned, we are almost inclined to say enough already and suspect that you, too, are growing a little tired of it. Politicians rise and fall all the time. Sometimes they rise and fall, then rise again. Most often, though, they just plain go on, a list chastened, a little less important than they once were. A little less likely to find themselves in the headlines no matter what they do or say.

On the other hand, though, it's beginning to be clear that story itself is no longer only or even mostly about the senator himself. To paraphrase a poet, Trent Lott isn't an individual anymore. He's a whole climate of opinion.

Those weighing in on Mr. Lott aren't weighing in on one guy. They're weighing in on something this country seldom talks about unless it's forced to. Blatant and overt racism is illegal and has been for some time. That's not what this current conversation is about.

The current conversation is about something almost more difficult, deep-seeded attitudes. The things we say to those we believe feel the same way we do when we think no one else is listening. The private club, just between us kind of thing, and there's no legislating against that.

This is hard to talk about. And, in a strange way, it may be that we owe the man who unwittingly made this conversation necessary a debt of gratitude. But before we all feel really, really superior, we should probably acknowledge that the conversation, if we really do go ahead and have it, will be almost as hard on the rest of us as it's already been on Trent Lott.

More on this difficult subject a little later in the program tonight. First, "The Whip." And now Iraq's declaration of weapons of mass destruction and how it played finally at the United Nations. Richard Roth at the UN. Richard, start us off with a headline.

RICHARD ROTH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Into the breach. The international weapons inspectors report inconsistencies and contradictions in those thousands of pages of documents from Baghdad. Is it material enough for a war?

BROWN: Richard, thank you. Back to you at the top tonight. Two more body blows for Senator Trent Lott, delivered with a southern drawl. Jonathan Karl back on the story tonight. Jon, a headline from you, please.

JONATHAN KARL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, tonight even Trent Lott's closest friends are saying his days are numbered as majority leader, as Tennessee's Bill Frist jumps in the race to replace him and John Warner, one of the Senate's most powerful senators and a man from Virginia, said he's on the Frist bandwagon.

BROWN: Jon, thank you. A storm of another kind in Mississippi today, and some very lucky Christmas shoppers as it turns out. Ed Lavandera, a headline from you, please.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN DALLAS BUREAU CHIEF: Dozens of people were injured as a tornado rolled through this town earlier this afternoon. And now the clean-up efforts are well under way. Aaron, back to you.

BROWN: Ed, thank you. And on to Atlanta and a back (ph) story you haven't heard about. The man who helped plan the 9/11 attacks. Susan Candiotti, worked this story for us. Susan, a headline from you tonight.

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Aaron. Law enforcement sources say Khalid Sheikh Mohammed earned a college degree right here in the United States. Something one of his professors isn't too thrilled about. In fact, a US official calls Khalid Sheikh Mohammed the Forest Gump of al Qaeda because of all the attacks they've been able to link him to.

BROWN: Susan, thank you. Back to you and the rest shortly.

Also tonight, how did the solid Democratic South become the Republican South? Part of the answer lies with race and the use of race as a political tool. We'll explore the issue and talk about race and the Republican Party with former Attorney General and former Pennsylvania Governor Dick Thornburgh.

And we'll close things out tonight with an installment in our "On the Rise" series. We expect you won't see the end of it, though, because you'll be in the car on the way to the candy store. All of that and more in the hour ahead.

We begin with the reviews coming in for Iraq's declaration. They run the gamut from skeptical to scathing, with the Bush administration, for the first time today, using the diplomatic equivalent of fighting words. But also leaning toward another round of diplomacy and coalition building before the bombs start falling.

We have two reports on this tonight. Beginning first with CNN's Richard Roth at the United Nations.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROTH (voice-over): The leading international arms inspectors on Iraq say 12,000 pages on weapons programs delivered from Baghdad are not enough.

HANS BLIX, CHIEF UN WEAPONS INSPECTOR: An opportunity was missed in the declaration to give a lot of evidence.

ROTH: Too many unaccounted for weapons of mass destruction, too much old material stuffed in the new filing.

JEREMY GREENSTOCK, BRITISH AMBASSADOR TO UN: The declaration was an opportunity to deal with these questions. That it has not done so we find deeply disappointing.

ROTH: The weapons inspectors want more.

MOHAMED EL BARADEI, DIRECTOR GENERAL, IAEA: We need -- I have to see documents. We need people to speak to us and confirm that these things have been destroyed. And we need even to see a sample of what has been destroyed.

ROTH: Citing gaps and holes in the documents, it didn't talk long for the US to make a dramatic announcement.

JOHN NEGROPONTE, US AMBASSADOR TO UN: These are material omissions that in our view constitute another material breach.

ROTH: Which sparked an immediate return volley from Iraq.

MOHAMMED SALMAN, DEPUTY IRAQI AMBASSADOR TO UN: Iraq is not in material breach, as the ambassador of the United States of America has said right now.

ROTH: Despite the tough talk, the US did not ask for the Security Council to agree on the breach, and diplomats say Washington is just keeping its options open. In fact, Russia challenged the US inside the council to prove its accusations.

SERGEY LAVROV, RUSSIAN AMBASSADOR TO UN: To say that we know but we wouldn't tell you is not something which is persuasive, frankly speaking. It's not a poker game, when you hold your cards and call others' bluff.

ROTH: The inspectors have been dealt a difficult hand, but intend to play it out. They await a list of scientists from Iraq. The US is pressing Blix to take them out of Iraq to locate hidden weapons. But Blix says Iraq would just go to places where those scientists work and move or destroy the evidence.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROTH: Disarmament officials say this was an overview for the Security Council. At the end of the week, reconnaissance style missions end and a more investigative phase begins with possible return trips as much as three times to certain sites -- Aaron.

BROWN: Richard, the term "material breach" is an important term here. It does mean different things to different countries. But to the United States it's a trigger. ROTH: That's right. And if someone two months ago had said the US ambassador to the UN would come to the microphone at the Security Council and report that the US finds Iraq in material breach, one would have thought back in the early fall that bombs would start falling. But the US again has backed off, though it's upped the rhetoric.

Material breach a legal term here at the UN. Let's face it, this resolution already says at the top of it Iraq is in material breach. The US is keeping the heat on here and it's likely, if the US wants to, they could use a so-called Kosovo model. 1999, military attack, no council resolution.

According to many countries here on the Security Council, to really determine material breach, if you read the resolution, Iraq, besides the omissions, would have to, "commit other serious violations" and the council would then have to assess whether that's a material breach. Whether Washington wants to wait for that or use this time to rally support and unity, that's still up in the air.

BROWN: Richard, thank you. It sounds like the next few weeks we'll all need legal pads to work through this. Thank you very much. Richard Roth at the UN tonight.

Now the administration's take, which was delivered by the secretary of state. President Bush was busy going over war plans today with General Tommy Franks, which says something, too, we suppose. And with all signs pointing to the military being ready for a battle by early February, Secretary Powell had a dual mission today, putting Iraq on final notice, while leaving the coming weeks open to building a coalition for a war.

That side of the story from CNN's Andrea Koppel.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Secretary of State Powell said Iraq's arms declaration was filled with lies and omissions, putting Iraq in material breach of UN Resolution 1441 and another step closer to war.

COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: Resolution 1441 calls for serious consequences for Iraq if it does not comply with the terms of the resolution. Iraq's non-compliance and defiance of the international community has brought it closer to the day when it will have to face these consequences.

KOPPEL: As proof, Powell pointed to a series of glaring omissions in Iraq's 12,000-page declaration. Prohibited items weapons inspectors uncovered before 1998, but which Iraq did not mention, like more than 19,000 liters of a biological agent, 26,000 liters of anthrax. Powell also said Iraq failed to declare mobile biological production units. Iraq calls them mobile refrigeration units and food testing labs.

Secretary Powell refused to put a deadline on Iraqi compliance, but he did lay out a deliberate US strategy for the coming weeks. He said the US would continue to examine the Iraqi declaration, push for interviews with Iraqi scientists outside Iraq, intensify inspections, all the while consulting with US allies, preparing for the possibility of war.

POWELL: It is still up to Iraq to determine how its disarmament will happen. Unfortunately, this declaration fails totally to move us in the direction of a peaceful solution.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL: Still, Powell made clear the latest Iraqi material breach is not the trigger for war, rather Powell made clear that the US case, if it comes to that, Aaron, would be built on a body of evidence, numerous examples of Iraqi non-compliance, just like this Iraqi declaration from December 7.

BROWN: And on the business of coalition building, where are we there?

KOPPEL: Well, surprisingly, the US feels that it's moving along quite well. It depends when and if there is war, but certainly, as things stand right now, if push came to shove, the US believes it would have support from key Arab allies, from Turkey, again, if push came to shove, and from certain NATO allies, European allies. Obviously there are some countries that are still not on board.

BROWN: Andrea, thank you. Andrea Koppel at the State Department tonight.

A lot of moving parts in this story trying to pull together. We've asked Robin Wright to join us. Ms. Wright is the chief diplomatic correspondent for the "Los Angeles Times," and she joins us again this evening from Washington. Robin, nice to see you. What changed today, anything?

ROBIN WRIGHT, CHIEF DIPLOMATIC CORRESPONDENT, "LOS ANGELES TIMES": Well, I think we actually crossed a threshold. The administration will deny that this is the turning point, but it is clear that Saddam Hussein, over the next six weeks, has to do what he hasn't done in 11 years, and that's confess to everything he has ever developed, provide access to more than 500, and perhaps even well over a thousand different scientists and engineers involved in developing the programs, and show everything he's hidden.

So that's a mighty big agenda. And I think there's a feeling that the train has left the station. That there are a enough troops now deployed in the Persian Gulf and other countries nearby Iraq. And that there is actually a consensus beginning to build at the United Nations that even Iraq's closest or traditional allies on the Security Council, including France and Russia, didn't have anything good to say about Iraq today.

BROWN: No, but I thought it was interesting what the Russian ambassador did say today to the UN, when he said that the United States, if it has this evidence, ought to share the evidence. Do you have any sense what the US strategy is in dealing with at least the permanent members of the Security Council?

WRIGHT: Well, clearly the administration over the next six weeks is going to begin providing the kind of intelligence that is needed to track these weapons and to get the scientists and be able to ask them the right questions. I think we will probably see over the next six weeks some intricately-timed operations, inspections on the ground that involve not one, but a couple of teams at each site. What they call an "A" team and then a "B," rapid response team, in case there's any effort to re-deploy material or personnel by the Iraqis.

That you will see scientists particularly targeted. And this will all center around a small handful of the violations. That the United States has really whittled down what it believes are hundreds, potentially thousands of omissions and gaps to a handful, three, four, half dozen cases that it can use as the triggers, the flash point, the gutches, as they call them, to nab or to show that Saddam Hussein has in fact been in violation.

BROWN: Why have the French softened, if that's a fair term for it?

WRIGHT: The French have very quietly begun to make it known that they are deeply disappointed. And even one official said to me we can no longer defend Saddam Hussein. The fact is there were so many quite blatant gaps in the turning over documents that have been turned over before. That, as I said, the traditional allies can't defend him any longer.

BROWN: I had the feeling today -- and I could be completely wrong -- that so far this thing has gone oddly according to script. That no one really expected this declaration to be complete, to be accepted, to be right. And that there is a kind of odd dance that's being played out and everyone knows the next step.

WRIGHT: I think that's right, actually. This has been well choreographed. The responsibility is on Saddam Hussein, but the United States also has to provide the intelligence that will, you know, lead to the culmination of this drama. And there are a number of former US officials who told me today how often they had gone to bed during previous administrations believing that the UN weapons inspectors, with the intelligence they had provided, that they would wake up in the morning and find that someone had finally caught Saddam Hussein red-handed, and in fact it didn't happen.

So the real issue is, can the United States intelligence actually lead to the evidence on the ground. And of course so much of that will depend on the human beings this time around, not just the sites.

BROWN: Just a final question. There's an online magazine -- I don't remember which one it is, I think it's Salon -- that does a sort of war meter on Iraq each day and looks at the evidence of the day and says, here we are. I gather you think the needle is tilted considerably more towards the possibility of war today than it was a week ago?

WRIGHT: I think so. And I think, in fact, in many ways, it's gone so much further than anyone thought it was going to go even a year ago, except for a group of real conservatives within the administration. I think that the administration has surprised us and surprised even many of its allies in how far it has been able to go at the United Nations and in convincing both -- beginning to change, anyway, American public opinion and the opinion in the world.

BROWN: Next time you join us, I want to talk more about the public opinion question. It's actually an intriguing issue out there. Have a wonderful holiday. Thank you for joining us.

WRIGHT: Thank you.

BROWN: Robin Wright with the "Los Angeles Times" with us tonight.

And ahead on NEWSNIGHT, storm clouds thicken, as a key Republican says he'd like to be the Senate leader if that's what his colleagues want.

And later from North Carolina, the story of a man who helped plan the 9/11 attacks and the engineering education he got at a college in Greensboro. This is NEWSNIGHT from New York.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Trent Lott has always said he's an optimist, but not even Polliana could find much good news in the headlines tonight. First, a rival steps out of the wings. That would be Senator Bill Frist. Then, faster than you could say, "Et tu, Brute," a veteran Republican says he will support him. That would be Senator John Warner of Virginia.

John Warner of Virginia, just six days ago, said Trent Lott should stay. And that alone tells you just about everything you need to know about how tough this game is and how it is playing out. We go back to CNN Congressional Correspondent Jonathan Karl -- Jon.

KARL: Aaron, very, very bad news for Trent Lott, indeed. As a matter of fact, I've spoken to two very senior elder statesman figures in the Republican Party who are very close to Trent Lott. These are friends of Trent Lott. These are Lott loyalists who have told me that they think that Trent Lott will resign, will be forced to step down as a result of this latest development.

As a matter of fact, one of them said that they expected that to happen as soon as tomorrow. And just to backtrack where we are, this was Tennessee Senator Bill Frist, who, by the way, has not always been seen as someone who is a Lott rival. This is somebody who has been very close to Trent Lott in the Senate. One of his closest allies in the Senate until now, that is.

He earlier today put out a statement that said many Republicans have come forward and asked him to run for leader. And he said, "I indicated to them that if it is clear that a majority of the Republican Caucus believes a change of leadership would benefit the institution of the United States Senate, I will likely step forward for that role."

Well, not much longer than that statement came out, John Warner of Virginia came out and did an impromptu press conference endorsing Bill Frist and saying that Bill Frist is no longer saying "I will likely be a candidate," but that Bill Frist told him he is definitely a candidate to replace Trent Lott.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN WARNER (R), VIRGINIA: I'm pleased to join the Bill Frist team, and I can assure you the team is growing in numbers very quickly. And I think it is in the best interest of the Congress that the Republican Caucus have a choice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KARL: And there is another very key member of that Bill Frist team. Aides to Senator Don Nickles, who you'll remember was the first person to come in and suggest that Trent Lott may need to go, who is the outgoing number two man in the United States Senate, somebody who has long had designs on the majority leadership himself, I am told will work for Bill Frist to get Bill Frist elected majority leader. Now, while that is going on, we have an official statement from a Lott spokesman, not from Lott himself, but from a Lott spokesman saying, "Senate Republican Leader Trent Lott will be the majority leader in the next Congress. He has a track record of loyalty, dedication and experience in shepherding President Bush's agenda for all Americans through the Senate."

Now notice that statement comes from a Lott spokesman, not from Lott. We have not heard from Lott tonight. Again, one of his closest friends, closest allies told me tonight that Lott is, "not crazy." That he understands the situation, and this person thinks it is very unlikely that he will go on much longer. Now it will become a race, in this person's mind, not against Trent Lott, but a race to replace Trent Lott -- Aaron.

BROWN: Well, just a quick one there, and then I have something else. That suggests that someone other than Senator Frist might get in the game. We'll someone other than Senator Frist get in the game?

KARL: The two people that have been leading the defense, if you will, for Trent Lott have been Mitch McConnell and Rick Santorum. The speculation tonight is that one of those two would jump in against Bill Frist.

BROWN: Even given the White House's obvious affection for Frist?

KARL: Perhaps because of the White House's obvious affection for Frist. Many up there in the Senate don't like the idea of the White House picking their leader. And that actually, at least in some corners, is hurting Frist.

BROWN: And let me try one more. Did anyone ask Senator Warner what's changed since the 13 of December, when his office -- he issued a statement in support of Senator Lott? KARL: Well, Warner's line on that is it wasn't an unequivocal statement in support of Lott. He said that he accepted his apology, but it also -- from the beginning, Warner has been saying that Republicans need to come together and make a decision about their leadership. Surely it suggested that he would be supporting Lott for leader. But in his mind it wasn't an explicit endorsement.

BROWN: Well, the last sentence here is a paraphrase here. Senator Lott should be given the opportunity. There's not a lot of wiggle room to me.

KARL: There's not a lot of wiggle room. And, you know, he was asked about loyalty and friendship, because he's (UNINTELLIGIBLE). And he said, look, this is beyond friendship, it's beyond loyalty, it is about the institution of the Senate. That was John Warner's line tonight.

BROWN: That's like the line from "The Godfather."

KARL: Yeah.

BROWN: "It's just business." Thank you, Jon. Jonathan Karl tonight.

The news about the senator's troubles back in Mississippi taking a back seat to something else that happened there today. It comes out of Newton, Mississippi, where a fierce storm blew through this afternoon and nearly took Christmas along with it. Here's CNN's Ed Lavandera.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LAVANDERA (voice-over): Six days before Christmas this Wal-Mart was packed with holiday shoppers when the tornado hit.

DENISE SMITH, WAL-MART EMPLOYEE: I was in the back of the store, so I didn't see the front. It hit the front of the store first and busted out all the glass in the front of the store, and I could see the roof. And I could see it coming like towards the back, and all the roof started caving in.

LAVANDERA: The tornado caused a visible path through Newton, causing trees and power lines to snap. But officials say most homes were spared serious damage. About 70 people were injured; two are now in critical but stable condition.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everything was just rotating, going around in circles. And it sounded like a train, loud noise. I mean, it was devastating. It was horrible. But god pulled us through. I thank god to be here.

LAVANDERA: Barbara Fielder (ph) was in this gas station just a couple of miles away from the Wal-Mart. When the tornado struck, the building collapsed around her.

BARBARA FIELDER: I said, you all run, duck. And they ran and I ran all the way from the cash register, because there's a big glass window there. And I just went to the end of the counter and laid down and held on.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LAVANDERA: Mrs. Fielder (ph) is one of the dozens of people here in Newton tonight recovering in area hospitals. She'll be there throughout the night. She, and several other witnesses, told us they didn't get much warning about this storm coming. Although, we've heard from state officials who do say that warnings were sent out. Meanwhile, now the focus is cleaning up, and crews will be cleaning up many of the trees and power lines that cover up many of the roads in this small town. Aaron, back to you.

BROWN: Ed, thank you. Ed Lavandera in Newton, Mississippi tonight.

Later on NEWSNIGHT, another in our installment of "On the Rise." Tonight, a young man making a mint off of chocolate.

Up next: educating the terrorists. What happened at North Carolina A&T (ph). This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: We think of terrorists as learning their dark skills in out of the way places. Caves in Afghanistan, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) anonymous apartment blocks in Karachi, camps in the desert or the Horn of Africa. It turns out, however, that one particular plotter, a man who is on the FBI's list of most wanted terrorists, was trained in a place that is neither ominous nor far away, by people who had no idea what terrible use he would make of what they were teaching him. Here's Susan Candiotti.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CANDIOTTI (voice-over): A picturesque college campus, Greensboro North Carolina's A&T (ph) University. Monuments honor famous alumni, including four students who made civil rights history in 1960. Astronaut Ronald McNair (ph) who died in the Challenger explosion, is a physics alum with a building named after him. One 1986 graduate is not celebrated. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, one of Osama bin Laden's top commanders.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very surprised and dismayed.

CANDIOTTI: Mechanical Engineering Professor David Klett taught him, and he's troubled.

DAVID KLETT, MECHANICAL ENGINEERING PROFESSOR: I may have helped given him some background that would help him accomplish the World Trade Center catastrophe.

CANDIOTTI: That catastrophe helped put Khalid Sheikh Mohammed on the FBI's most wanted terror list, the self-described head of al Qaeda's military operations. So close to Osama bin Laden, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed there was when bin Laden learned the outcome of the September 11 attacks.

KLETT: To think that I sat across the desk from him probably multiple times, advising him on what courses to take and so forth, that -- it bothers me.

CANDIOTTI: Professor Klett cannot remember Khalid Sheikh Mohammed's face.

KLETT: This is the turbo fan engine used on commercial airliners.

CANDIOTTI: But the professor vividly remembers the mandatory courses records show he taught him in the mid '80s, including thermodynamics.

KLETT: How much energy is contained in a certain amount of fuel. And those things would have been necessary for them to at least consider when they planned the World Trade Center attack with the airplanes.

may have used that theoretical knowledge planning terror attacks in Southeast Asia. In 1995 he escaped capture after a fire in Manila apartment where bomb-making materials were found.

He was indicted in the U.S. for plotting to blow up U.S. commercial airliners. There are suspected links to the first World Trade Center attack in 1993. The African embassy bombings in 1998, the terror attack on the USS Cole in Yemen in 2000. Mechanical engineering graduate Sammy Zitawi was a classmate but says there was never anti-American talk.

SAMMY ZITAWI, FORMER STUDENT: These two pictures remind me of him very well. That's the way he used to look with this beard.

CANDOTTI: Zitawi, says Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was one of about 30 Muslim students who lived off campus and rented an apartment to use as a mosque.

ZITAWI: There was an apartment in this building, in this apartment for sure.

CANDOTTI: His former classmate remembers him as deeply religious and quiet. And now?

ZITAWI: You don't know what to believe but I think anything is possible in this life. Years go by and people change.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZITAWI: Now, when Mohammed completed his studies in North Carolina in 1986, his forwarding address was a local Post Office box. At the time there was virtual live nothing to indicate what he was to become -- one of the world's most wanted men -- Aaron.

BROWN: You feel bad for the professor. There's no way for anyone in that situation to know what someone is going to grow up to be.

And no one has any remembrance of this guy as being a radical in any way, shape or form, right?

CANDOTTI: Not at all. They said he was very quiet, he was very religious, he was helpful to other students with their studies and at the time the Muslim students on that campus, or roughly 30 of them, were all said to be very pro American because at that time the U.S. was helping the Muslims in Afghanistan in its war against the then Soviet Union.

This is a story rich with irony, Susan. Thank you. Susan Candiotti in Atlanta for us tonight. Still to come On NEWSNIGHT; how a political event 50 years ago continues to make its mark on American politics in general and the Republican party specifically. This is NEWSNIGHT

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: We were talking to an old friend the other day, he's a political consultant who handles Republican campaigns. The subject was Trent Lott and my friend's mood was bleak. We argue said, reaping what we sew. Republicans, for the fishes time he acknowledged in the 20 years I've known him have used race and racial tension to their best political advantage.

How the party of Lincoln became the party that gets fewer than 1 in 10 African-American votes in a national election is a story of politics and pragmatism and strangely enough has its roots in the Democratic party.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN (voice-over) Race used to be the Democrats' problem. When Strom Thurmond stormed out of the 1938 Democratic convention because of President Truman's modest civil rights proposal, the Democratic party was split north and south. The code words were states rights but that was a polite way to say segregation.

STORM THURMOND, DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE FOR PRESIDENT: These damnable proposals he has recommended under the guise of so-called civil rights. And I'll tell you the American people from one side of the other had better wake up and oppose such a program. And if they don't, the next thing will be a totalitarian state in these United States.

BROWN: Thurmond's Dixiecrats won in several states in states, 87 percent in Mississippi in a time where few African-Americans were allowed to vote. In the land mark 1964 Civil Rights bill would never had passed had it not been for Northern Moderate Republicans, because Democrats in the South opposed it.

LYNDON JOHNSON, PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES: The wrong is one which no American in his heart can justify.

BROWN: But LBJ knew the political implications for the Democratic party. We have, he said, just lost the south.

LEE EDWARDS, SENIOR FELLOW HERITAGE INSTITUTE: Blacks, African- Americans looked upon this as a rite of political passage. And if you voted for whatever reason, constitutional or whatever reason, even on the best of constitutional reason, if you voted against this, that you were against them and you were a racist and a bigot.

BROWN: Today even conservative writers acknowledge it is not that simple.

STEPHEN HARRIS, STAFF WRITER "THE WEEKLY STANDARD": We have to be honest about it I think. There employment of the Southern strategy have a sorted history on the use of race. They used it for (UNINTELLIGIBLE) means, I think, to win votes at the expense of bringing people together.

BROWN: Do you think it was an accident that Ronald Reagan opened his campaign in Philadelphia, Mississippi, home to one of the most storied crimes of the civil rights era, the murder of three civil rights workers? The southern strategy worked. Whites became solidly Republican blacks now able to vote became Democrats. In 1960 Richard Nixon won 32 percent of the African-American vote by 1980 Ronald Reagan could capture but 10 percent and George W. Bush did about the same.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You rarely hear Republicans articulate a positive vision on race. I think it's because they're afraid of having people take pot shots at them and there's some reason to be a little afraid. You've had some I think terrible race bidding on the parts of Democrats and the civil rights establishment.

BROWN: And that may be but conservative Republicans have given them plenty of ammunition, some real, some symbolic. There were votes against extending the voting rights act, votes against the fair housing bill, votes against the Martin Luther King holiday. While arguments can be made those votes and others were not about race as such but about a broader principle of the role of the federal government, the effect has been undeniable. And today many in the party of Lincoln fear they are seen as having lost the moral high ground on one of the great moral issues of American life.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If people think that Trent Lott in his comments at the birthday party speak for the Republican party, it's both sad and disappointing and utterly terrifying.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: A little more on this after a break. We'll talk with former governor of Pennsylvania and Attorney General Dick Thornburgh on the subject of race and Republican party. This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Well, thank you. In a moment, Republicans and race. We are joined by former Attorney General Dick Thornburgh. This is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: One of the great truths or at least one of the great sayings of American politics, is that social security is the third rail that is to dangerous to touch. In truth the real third rail is race. And for two weeks now the Republican party has been brushing up against that third rail in a most uncomfortable way.

Richard Thornburgh has thought a lot about this. Former governor of Pennsylvania, former Attorney General for President Reagan and the first President Bush. Governor joins us tonight from Washington where he's now in private practice. It's nice to see you.

RICHARD THORNBURGH, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: Good evening.

BROWN: Let's be as they say over at the State Department frank and direct. Does the Republican party have any reason to be ashamed of its record on race?

THORNBURGH: I think the real mischief that is done by this current controversy is we're in a time where there's broad consensus among the American populous about the issue of civil rights and here we have an appearance of nostalgia for the bad old days of segregation and discrimination.

It's a real blow I think in particular to President Bush, who has made clear that he wants outreach. He's made key appointments of African-Americans in his cabinet and really has I think expressed a genuine desire to swell the ranks of the Republican party with minority voters. But this is a setback and it's going to -- we're going to pay a price for it.

BROWN: When you hear and you've heard this a lot over the last couple of weeks, conservative commentators, you just heard in the piece that proceeded you, say things like Republicans have assorted history of using race to win elections. Are you buying that? Do you agree with that?

THORNBURGH: I'm sure that in both parties there are cases where that's been true, but I go back to my own experience and I realize that the benefits of competition. That's what our political system out to be about. In 1978 when I first ran for governor, Jesse Jackson made a speech to the Republican National Committee chiding the Democrats for taking black voters for granted and the Republicans for ignoring them.

And I was an underdog candidate at the time and we decided we'd go out and compete for those votes and we got 58 percent of the black vote in the state of Pennsylvania, which was unheard of up to that time and even got Reverend Jackson's endorsement for my candidacy. I think if you make the effort, if you have a real outreach to minority voters, it will pay off whether you're a Democrat or a Republican. And if you don't, you'll pay a price for it, whether you're a Democrat or Republican. BROWN: I want to look forward. I don't want to spend all our time here looking back. Why is it then a smart politician can look at what you just described in your own situation in Pennsylvania and say I want that vote, yet nevertheless the pattern is that African- Americans in overwhelming numbers, 80 percent, 90 percent, vote Democratic?

THORNBURGH: In the presidential elections it does appear that we've gone from being the party of Lincoln to the party in the permanent deep minority. But I think in any situation and this one's full of irony and cross currents, that can change. And I think what President Bush really has in mind by his key appointments of his two top foreign policy advisers, Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice, was to create role models of real Republicans who hold positions of power.

And that the next generation of African-American voters look to that rather than to the past or to the 32nd spots that attempt to condense an anti-Republican effort into a short period of time. It's a long shot but it's got to be taken and I think leaders who are of substance and who have character and who believe in the American way are going to continue to do that in both parties.

BROWN: Do you think short term this is obviously for the Republican party painful and difficult. Do you think that there is in this at least the opportunity longer term that this whole episode with Senator Lott will actually be advantageous? That it will be as we suggested at the beginning it's forcing a conversation that no one's very comfortable with but probably is long overdue in American politics.

THORNBURGH: It has been kind of a silent issue, even though I really feel that among the American people there's a broad consensus that respects minority rights and rejects the notion of the nostalgia of the past. It will be interesting to see how Republicans in power today respond to this.

Whether or not new leadership emerges on this issue, whether it's a replacement of Senator Lott or new centers of power that spring up within the Congress or what the president does in order to make it clear that the party of Lincoln still has a place. And in fact, is seeking to create more place for African-Americans within it's ranks.

BROWN: Just a final question. There's no quick fix here. This is just long, difficult work of making the case, isn't it?

THORNBURGH: Certainly is. When you consider from 1865, to the end of the Civil War, until 1965 the right to vote was systematically denied to black voters in the South, and it was only with Republican support that the Voting Rights Act passed in 1965. You can you see how this changes over a period of time but it is sometimes a very long period of time. Let's hope it can be accelerated here.

BROWN: Governor, it's nice to talk with you. We appreciate the thoughtfulness you brought to the program tonight. Have a good holiday.

THORBURGH: Thank you, Aaron.

BROWN: Thank you so very much.

Next on NEWSNIGHT, we'll wrap it up with on the rise. It's all about chocolate. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Finally from us tonight, another in our series of portraits of young people who have set out to do interesting and exciting and perhaps unexpected things, mostly because those are the things they really want to do in life and never mind the odds or the difficulties or any of the rest of that pragmatic stuff. That's a long sentence.

In other words, this is a series about pluck and passion. We call it "On this Rise" and this chapter of the series is especially sweet.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You guys want some chocolate chocolates?

(MUSIC)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello. My name is Richard Cuzinsky (ph). Owner, executive chef, pastry chef of Ricard Chocalat (ph).

I do a whole different slew of gourmet, high-end 100 percent organic products. I started my business in '99, so coming up maybe on like three or four years now.

I don't have anyone in this with me so I'm creating everything from the packaging to the ganash (ph) flavors to the marketing to the P.R., old calling, whatever it is.

This is Richard from Ricard Chocalat calling.

Here's some chocolate.

I'm not here just to have another product that is there for people to indulge in. Americans, they haven't really got a great education when it comes to chocolate.

To give you a little bit of an idea of what I do, the espresso- infused 72 percent dark chocolate covered popcorn. Smells delicious. That's dinner for tomorrow night.

I do personalized silk screen on the chocolates. We're going to take and dip the Manhattan mix to basically represent the typical, hard working Manhattan person. Just chow 'em down.

The majority of my ingredients I try my hardest to get at the green market at Union Square.

Hello, how are you? It's nice to be able to talk to somebody who is actually growing some of your products.

Here you go.

I'm going to show you some stuff that I'll probably get kicked out of, like, "The Chocolate of the Month Club" or something for showing you.

Basically what I'm making here, this is a gnash (ph) that you would be familiar to the soft centers and the little chocolates.

(MUSIC)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can't believe that I make a living by doing this. It's like living the Willy Wonka dream.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory")

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's chocolate.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's chocolate?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's chocolate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of my dreams in life was to open up a shop that was themed kind of the same way as "Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory" and you could actually have, like, theater enrolled into the shop where you could have, like, little oompa oompas running around.

(MUSIC)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's kind of the whole theory behind, you know, like the -- the staying like a child.

(MUSIC)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I always told myself that I never wanted to have to put a tie on and go sit behind a cubicle every day from 9 to 5 because I would just go crazy.

This is an order that goes to the Mercer Hotel. These are all -- they use these boxes for their V.I.P. Suites.

Hello. That's for you.

Thanks very much.

(MUSIC)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's difficult to find a passion in life, but if you find it, I think it's definitely something to hold on to and I think it makes sense to give up whatever you have to give up to be successful with that passion.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: That's the work of NEWSNIGHT producer Amanda Townsend (ph). Blame her for the cravings you get as you make your way to bed tonight.

We're all back tomorrow. We hope you are too, 10:00 Eastern time. Until them, I'm Aaron Brown in New York. Good night from all of us at NEWSNIGHT.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





Declaration Is Not Enough; Tornado Hits Mississippi>


Aired December 19, 2002 - 22:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, HOST: Good evening again. I'm Aaron Brown.
Where the Trent Lott matter is concerned, we are almost inclined to say enough already and suspect that you, too, are growing a little tired of it. Politicians rise and fall all the time. Sometimes they rise and fall, then rise again. Most often, though, they just plain go on, a list chastened, a little less important than they once were. A little less likely to find themselves in the headlines no matter what they do or say.

On the other hand, though, it's beginning to be clear that story itself is no longer only or even mostly about the senator himself. To paraphrase a poet, Trent Lott isn't an individual anymore. He's a whole climate of opinion.

Those weighing in on Mr. Lott aren't weighing in on one guy. They're weighing in on something this country seldom talks about unless it's forced to. Blatant and overt racism is illegal and has been for some time. That's not what this current conversation is about.

The current conversation is about something almost more difficult, deep-seeded attitudes. The things we say to those we believe feel the same way we do when we think no one else is listening. The private club, just between us kind of thing, and there's no legislating against that.

This is hard to talk about. And, in a strange way, it may be that we owe the man who unwittingly made this conversation necessary a debt of gratitude. But before we all feel really, really superior, we should probably acknowledge that the conversation, if we really do go ahead and have it, will be almost as hard on the rest of us as it's already been on Trent Lott.

More on this difficult subject a little later in the program tonight. First, "The Whip." And now Iraq's declaration of weapons of mass destruction and how it played finally at the United Nations. Richard Roth at the UN. Richard, start us off with a headline.

RICHARD ROTH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Into the breach. The international weapons inspectors report inconsistencies and contradictions in those thousands of pages of documents from Baghdad. Is it material enough for a war?

BROWN: Richard, thank you. Back to you at the top tonight. Two more body blows for Senator Trent Lott, delivered with a southern drawl. Jonathan Karl back on the story tonight. Jon, a headline from you, please.

JONATHAN KARL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, tonight even Trent Lott's closest friends are saying his days are numbered as majority leader, as Tennessee's Bill Frist jumps in the race to replace him and John Warner, one of the Senate's most powerful senators and a man from Virginia, said he's on the Frist bandwagon.

BROWN: Jon, thank you. A storm of another kind in Mississippi today, and some very lucky Christmas shoppers as it turns out. Ed Lavandera, a headline from you, please.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN DALLAS BUREAU CHIEF: Dozens of people were injured as a tornado rolled through this town earlier this afternoon. And now the clean-up efforts are well under way. Aaron, back to you.

BROWN: Ed, thank you. And on to Atlanta and a back (ph) story you haven't heard about. The man who helped plan the 9/11 attacks. Susan Candiotti, worked this story for us. Susan, a headline from you tonight.

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Aaron. Law enforcement sources say Khalid Sheikh Mohammed earned a college degree right here in the United States. Something one of his professors isn't too thrilled about. In fact, a US official calls Khalid Sheikh Mohammed the Forest Gump of al Qaeda because of all the attacks they've been able to link him to.

BROWN: Susan, thank you. Back to you and the rest shortly.

Also tonight, how did the solid Democratic South become the Republican South? Part of the answer lies with race and the use of race as a political tool. We'll explore the issue and talk about race and the Republican Party with former Attorney General and former Pennsylvania Governor Dick Thornburgh.

And we'll close things out tonight with an installment in our "On the Rise" series. We expect you won't see the end of it, though, because you'll be in the car on the way to the candy store. All of that and more in the hour ahead.

We begin with the reviews coming in for Iraq's declaration. They run the gamut from skeptical to scathing, with the Bush administration, for the first time today, using the diplomatic equivalent of fighting words. But also leaning toward another round of diplomacy and coalition building before the bombs start falling.

We have two reports on this tonight. Beginning first with CNN's Richard Roth at the United Nations.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROTH (voice-over): The leading international arms inspectors on Iraq say 12,000 pages on weapons programs delivered from Baghdad are not enough.

HANS BLIX, CHIEF UN WEAPONS INSPECTOR: An opportunity was missed in the declaration to give a lot of evidence.

ROTH: Too many unaccounted for weapons of mass destruction, too much old material stuffed in the new filing.

JEREMY GREENSTOCK, BRITISH AMBASSADOR TO UN: The declaration was an opportunity to deal with these questions. That it has not done so we find deeply disappointing.

ROTH: The weapons inspectors want more.

MOHAMED EL BARADEI, DIRECTOR GENERAL, IAEA: We need -- I have to see documents. We need people to speak to us and confirm that these things have been destroyed. And we need even to see a sample of what has been destroyed.

ROTH: Citing gaps and holes in the documents, it didn't talk long for the US to make a dramatic announcement.

JOHN NEGROPONTE, US AMBASSADOR TO UN: These are material omissions that in our view constitute another material breach.

ROTH: Which sparked an immediate return volley from Iraq.

MOHAMMED SALMAN, DEPUTY IRAQI AMBASSADOR TO UN: Iraq is not in material breach, as the ambassador of the United States of America has said right now.

ROTH: Despite the tough talk, the US did not ask for the Security Council to agree on the breach, and diplomats say Washington is just keeping its options open. In fact, Russia challenged the US inside the council to prove its accusations.

SERGEY LAVROV, RUSSIAN AMBASSADOR TO UN: To say that we know but we wouldn't tell you is not something which is persuasive, frankly speaking. It's not a poker game, when you hold your cards and call others' bluff.

ROTH: The inspectors have been dealt a difficult hand, but intend to play it out. They await a list of scientists from Iraq. The US is pressing Blix to take them out of Iraq to locate hidden weapons. But Blix says Iraq would just go to places where those scientists work and move or destroy the evidence.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROTH: Disarmament officials say this was an overview for the Security Council. At the end of the week, reconnaissance style missions end and a more investigative phase begins with possible return trips as much as three times to certain sites -- Aaron.

BROWN: Richard, the term "material breach" is an important term here. It does mean different things to different countries. But to the United States it's a trigger. ROTH: That's right. And if someone two months ago had said the US ambassador to the UN would come to the microphone at the Security Council and report that the US finds Iraq in material breach, one would have thought back in the early fall that bombs would start falling. But the US again has backed off, though it's upped the rhetoric.

Material breach a legal term here at the UN. Let's face it, this resolution already says at the top of it Iraq is in material breach. The US is keeping the heat on here and it's likely, if the US wants to, they could use a so-called Kosovo model. 1999, military attack, no council resolution.

According to many countries here on the Security Council, to really determine material breach, if you read the resolution, Iraq, besides the omissions, would have to, "commit other serious violations" and the council would then have to assess whether that's a material breach. Whether Washington wants to wait for that or use this time to rally support and unity, that's still up in the air.

BROWN: Richard, thank you. It sounds like the next few weeks we'll all need legal pads to work through this. Thank you very much. Richard Roth at the UN tonight.

Now the administration's take, which was delivered by the secretary of state. President Bush was busy going over war plans today with General Tommy Franks, which says something, too, we suppose. And with all signs pointing to the military being ready for a battle by early February, Secretary Powell had a dual mission today, putting Iraq on final notice, while leaving the coming weeks open to building a coalition for a war.

That side of the story from CNN's Andrea Koppel.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Secretary of State Powell said Iraq's arms declaration was filled with lies and omissions, putting Iraq in material breach of UN Resolution 1441 and another step closer to war.

COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: Resolution 1441 calls for serious consequences for Iraq if it does not comply with the terms of the resolution. Iraq's non-compliance and defiance of the international community has brought it closer to the day when it will have to face these consequences.

KOPPEL: As proof, Powell pointed to a series of glaring omissions in Iraq's 12,000-page declaration. Prohibited items weapons inspectors uncovered before 1998, but which Iraq did not mention, like more than 19,000 liters of a biological agent, 26,000 liters of anthrax. Powell also said Iraq failed to declare mobile biological production units. Iraq calls them mobile refrigeration units and food testing labs.

Secretary Powell refused to put a deadline on Iraqi compliance, but he did lay out a deliberate US strategy for the coming weeks. He said the US would continue to examine the Iraqi declaration, push for interviews with Iraqi scientists outside Iraq, intensify inspections, all the while consulting with US allies, preparing for the possibility of war.

POWELL: It is still up to Iraq to determine how its disarmament will happen. Unfortunately, this declaration fails totally to move us in the direction of a peaceful solution.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL: Still, Powell made clear the latest Iraqi material breach is not the trigger for war, rather Powell made clear that the US case, if it comes to that, Aaron, would be built on a body of evidence, numerous examples of Iraqi non-compliance, just like this Iraqi declaration from December 7.

BROWN: And on the business of coalition building, where are we there?

KOPPEL: Well, surprisingly, the US feels that it's moving along quite well. It depends when and if there is war, but certainly, as things stand right now, if push came to shove, the US believes it would have support from key Arab allies, from Turkey, again, if push came to shove, and from certain NATO allies, European allies. Obviously there are some countries that are still not on board.

BROWN: Andrea, thank you. Andrea Koppel at the State Department tonight.

A lot of moving parts in this story trying to pull together. We've asked Robin Wright to join us. Ms. Wright is the chief diplomatic correspondent for the "Los Angeles Times," and she joins us again this evening from Washington. Robin, nice to see you. What changed today, anything?

ROBIN WRIGHT, CHIEF DIPLOMATIC CORRESPONDENT, "LOS ANGELES TIMES": Well, I think we actually crossed a threshold. The administration will deny that this is the turning point, but it is clear that Saddam Hussein, over the next six weeks, has to do what he hasn't done in 11 years, and that's confess to everything he has ever developed, provide access to more than 500, and perhaps even well over a thousand different scientists and engineers involved in developing the programs, and show everything he's hidden.

So that's a mighty big agenda. And I think there's a feeling that the train has left the station. That there are a enough troops now deployed in the Persian Gulf and other countries nearby Iraq. And that there is actually a consensus beginning to build at the United Nations that even Iraq's closest or traditional allies on the Security Council, including France and Russia, didn't have anything good to say about Iraq today.

BROWN: No, but I thought it was interesting what the Russian ambassador did say today to the UN, when he said that the United States, if it has this evidence, ought to share the evidence. Do you have any sense what the US strategy is in dealing with at least the permanent members of the Security Council?

WRIGHT: Well, clearly the administration over the next six weeks is going to begin providing the kind of intelligence that is needed to track these weapons and to get the scientists and be able to ask them the right questions. I think we will probably see over the next six weeks some intricately-timed operations, inspections on the ground that involve not one, but a couple of teams at each site. What they call an "A" team and then a "B," rapid response team, in case there's any effort to re-deploy material or personnel by the Iraqis.

That you will see scientists particularly targeted. And this will all center around a small handful of the violations. That the United States has really whittled down what it believes are hundreds, potentially thousands of omissions and gaps to a handful, three, four, half dozen cases that it can use as the triggers, the flash point, the gutches, as they call them, to nab or to show that Saddam Hussein has in fact been in violation.

BROWN: Why have the French softened, if that's a fair term for it?

WRIGHT: The French have very quietly begun to make it known that they are deeply disappointed. And even one official said to me we can no longer defend Saddam Hussein. The fact is there were so many quite blatant gaps in the turning over documents that have been turned over before. That, as I said, the traditional allies can't defend him any longer.

BROWN: I had the feeling today -- and I could be completely wrong -- that so far this thing has gone oddly according to script. That no one really expected this declaration to be complete, to be accepted, to be right. And that there is a kind of odd dance that's being played out and everyone knows the next step.

WRIGHT: I think that's right, actually. This has been well choreographed. The responsibility is on Saddam Hussein, but the United States also has to provide the intelligence that will, you know, lead to the culmination of this drama. And there are a number of former US officials who told me today how often they had gone to bed during previous administrations believing that the UN weapons inspectors, with the intelligence they had provided, that they would wake up in the morning and find that someone had finally caught Saddam Hussein red-handed, and in fact it didn't happen.

So the real issue is, can the United States intelligence actually lead to the evidence on the ground. And of course so much of that will depend on the human beings this time around, not just the sites.

BROWN: Just a final question. There's an online magazine -- I don't remember which one it is, I think it's Salon -- that does a sort of war meter on Iraq each day and looks at the evidence of the day and says, here we are. I gather you think the needle is tilted considerably more towards the possibility of war today than it was a week ago?

WRIGHT: I think so. And I think, in fact, in many ways, it's gone so much further than anyone thought it was going to go even a year ago, except for a group of real conservatives within the administration. I think that the administration has surprised us and surprised even many of its allies in how far it has been able to go at the United Nations and in convincing both -- beginning to change, anyway, American public opinion and the opinion in the world.

BROWN: Next time you join us, I want to talk more about the public opinion question. It's actually an intriguing issue out there. Have a wonderful holiday. Thank you for joining us.

WRIGHT: Thank you.

BROWN: Robin Wright with the "Los Angeles Times" with us tonight.

And ahead on NEWSNIGHT, storm clouds thicken, as a key Republican says he'd like to be the Senate leader if that's what his colleagues want.

And later from North Carolina, the story of a man who helped plan the 9/11 attacks and the engineering education he got at a college in Greensboro. This is NEWSNIGHT from New York.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Trent Lott has always said he's an optimist, but not even Polliana could find much good news in the headlines tonight. First, a rival steps out of the wings. That would be Senator Bill Frist. Then, faster than you could say, "Et tu, Brute," a veteran Republican says he will support him. That would be Senator John Warner of Virginia.

John Warner of Virginia, just six days ago, said Trent Lott should stay. And that alone tells you just about everything you need to know about how tough this game is and how it is playing out. We go back to CNN Congressional Correspondent Jonathan Karl -- Jon.

KARL: Aaron, very, very bad news for Trent Lott, indeed. As a matter of fact, I've spoken to two very senior elder statesman figures in the Republican Party who are very close to Trent Lott. These are friends of Trent Lott. These are Lott loyalists who have told me that they think that Trent Lott will resign, will be forced to step down as a result of this latest development.

As a matter of fact, one of them said that they expected that to happen as soon as tomorrow. And just to backtrack where we are, this was Tennessee Senator Bill Frist, who, by the way, has not always been seen as someone who is a Lott rival. This is somebody who has been very close to Trent Lott in the Senate. One of his closest allies in the Senate until now, that is.

He earlier today put out a statement that said many Republicans have come forward and asked him to run for leader. And he said, "I indicated to them that if it is clear that a majority of the Republican Caucus believes a change of leadership would benefit the institution of the United States Senate, I will likely step forward for that role."

Well, not much longer than that statement came out, John Warner of Virginia came out and did an impromptu press conference endorsing Bill Frist and saying that Bill Frist is no longer saying "I will likely be a candidate," but that Bill Frist told him he is definitely a candidate to replace Trent Lott.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN WARNER (R), VIRGINIA: I'm pleased to join the Bill Frist team, and I can assure you the team is growing in numbers very quickly. And I think it is in the best interest of the Congress that the Republican Caucus have a choice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KARL: And there is another very key member of that Bill Frist team. Aides to Senator Don Nickles, who you'll remember was the first person to come in and suggest that Trent Lott may need to go, who is the outgoing number two man in the United States Senate, somebody who has long had designs on the majority leadership himself, I am told will work for Bill Frist to get Bill Frist elected majority leader. Now, while that is going on, we have an official statement from a Lott spokesman, not from Lott himself, but from a Lott spokesman saying, "Senate Republican Leader Trent Lott will be the majority leader in the next Congress. He has a track record of loyalty, dedication and experience in shepherding President Bush's agenda for all Americans through the Senate."

Now notice that statement comes from a Lott spokesman, not from Lott. We have not heard from Lott tonight. Again, one of his closest friends, closest allies told me tonight that Lott is, "not crazy." That he understands the situation, and this person thinks it is very unlikely that he will go on much longer. Now it will become a race, in this person's mind, not against Trent Lott, but a race to replace Trent Lott -- Aaron.

BROWN: Well, just a quick one there, and then I have something else. That suggests that someone other than Senator Frist might get in the game. We'll someone other than Senator Frist get in the game?

KARL: The two people that have been leading the defense, if you will, for Trent Lott have been Mitch McConnell and Rick Santorum. The speculation tonight is that one of those two would jump in against Bill Frist.

BROWN: Even given the White House's obvious affection for Frist?

KARL: Perhaps because of the White House's obvious affection for Frist. Many up there in the Senate don't like the idea of the White House picking their leader. And that actually, at least in some corners, is hurting Frist.

BROWN: And let me try one more. Did anyone ask Senator Warner what's changed since the 13 of December, when his office -- he issued a statement in support of Senator Lott? KARL: Well, Warner's line on that is it wasn't an unequivocal statement in support of Lott. He said that he accepted his apology, but it also -- from the beginning, Warner has been saying that Republicans need to come together and make a decision about their leadership. Surely it suggested that he would be supporting Lott for leader. But in his mind it wasn't an explicit endorsement.

BROWN: Well, the last sentence here is a paraphrase here. Senator Lott should be given the opportunity. There's not a lot of wiggle room to me.

KARL: There's not a lot of wiggle room. And, you know, he was asked about loyalty and friendship, because he's (UNINTELLIGIBLE). And he said, look, this is beyond friendship, it's beyond loyalty, it is about the institution of the Senate. That was John Warner's line tonight.

BROWN: That's like the line from "The Godfather."

KARL: Yeah.

BROWN: "It's just business." Thank you, Jon. Jonathan Karl tonight.

The news about the senator's troubles back in Mississippi taking a back seat to something else that happened there today. It comes out of Newton, Mississippi, where a fierce storm blew through this afternoon and nearly took Christmas along with it. Here's CNN's Ed Lavandera.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LAVANDERA (voice-over): Six days before Christmas this Wal-Mart was packed with holiday shoppers when the tornado hit.

DENISE SMITH, WAL-MART EMPLOYEE: I was in the back of the store, so I didn't see the front. It hit the front of the store first and busted out all the glass in the front of the store, and I could see the roof. And I could see it coming like towards the back, and all the roof started caving in.

LAVANDERA: The tornado caused a visible path through Newton, causing trees and power lines to snap. But officials say most homes were spared serious damage. About 70 people were injured; two are now in critical but stable condition.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everything was just rotating, going around in circles. And it sounded like a train, loud noise. I mean, it was devastating. It was horrible. But god pulled us through. I thank god to be here.

LAVANDERA: Barbara Fielder (ph) was in this gas station just a couple of miles away from the Wal-Mart. When the tornado struck, the building collapsed around her.

BARBARA FIELDER: I said, you all run, duck. And they ran and I ran all the way from the cash register, because there's a big glass window there. And I just went to the end of the counter and laid down and held on.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LAVANDERA: Mrs. Fielder (ph) is one of the dozens of people here in Newton tonight recovering in area hospitals. She'll be there throughout the night. She, and several other witnesses, told us they didn't get much warning about this storm coming. Although, we've heard from state officials who do say that warnings were sent out. Meanwhile, now the focus is cleaning up, and crews will be cleaning up many of the trees and power lines that cover up many of the roads in this small town. Aaron, back to you.

BROWN: Ed, thank you. Ed Lavandera in Newton, Mississippi tonight.

Later on NEWSNIGHT, another in our installment of "On the Rise." Tonight, a young man making a mint off of chocolate.

Up next: educating the terrorists. What happened at North Carolina A&T (ph). This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: We think of terrorists as learning their dark skills in out of the way places. Caves in Afghanistan, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) anonymous apartment blocks in Karachi, camps in the desert or the Horn of Africa. It turns out, however, that one particular plotter, a man who is on the FBI's list of most wanted terrorists, was trained in a place that is neither ominous nor far away, by people who had no idea what terrible use he would make of what they were teaching him. Here's Susan Candiotti.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CANDIOTTI (voice-over): A picturesque college campus, Greensboro North Carolina's A&T (ph) University. Monuments honor famous alumni, including four students who made civil rights history in 1960. Astronaut Ronald McNair (ph) who died in the Challenger explosion, is a physics alum with a building named after him. One 1986 graduate is not celebrated. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, one of Osama bin Laden's top commanders.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very surprised and dismayed.

CANDIOTTI: Mechanical Engineering Professor David Klett taught him, and he's troubled.

DAVID KLETT, MECHANICAL ENGINEERING PROFESSOR: I may have helped given him some background that would help him accomplish the World Trade Center catastrophe.

CANDIOTTI: That catastrophe helped put Khalid Sheikh Mohammed on the FBI's most wanted terror list, the self-described head of al Qaeda's military operations. So close to Osama bin Laden, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed there was when bin Laden learned the outcome of the September 11 attacks.

KLETT: To think that I sat across the desk from him probably multiple times, advising him on what courses to take and so forth, that -- it bothers me.

CANDIOTTI: Professor Klett cannot remember Khalid Sheikh Mohammed's face.

KLETT: This is the turbo fan engine used on commercial airliners.

CANDIOTTI: But the professor vividly remembers the mandatory courses records show he taught him in the mid '80s, including thermodynamics.

KLETT: How much energy is contained in a certain amount of fuel. And those things would have been necessary for them to at least consider when they planned the World Trade Center attack with the airplanes.

may have used that theoretical knowledge planning terror attacks in Southeast Asia. In 1995 he escaped capture after a fire in Manila apartment where bomb-making materials were found.

He was indicted in the U.S. for plotting to blow up U.S. commercial airliners. There are suspected links to the first World Trade Center attack in 1993. The African embassy bombings in 1998, the terror attack on the USS Cole in Yemen in 2000. Mechanical engineering graduate Sammy Zitawi was a classmate but says there was never anti-American talk.

SAMMY ZITAWI, FORMER STUDENT: These two pictures remind me of him very well. That's the way he used to look with this beard.

CANDOTTI: Zitawi, says Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was one of about 30 Muslim students who lived off campus and rented an apartment to use as a mosque.

ZITAWI: There was an apartment in this building, in this apartment for sure.

CANDOTTI: His former classmate remembers him as deeply religious and quiet. And now?

ZITAWI: You don't know what to believe but I think anything is possible in this life. Years go by and people change.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZITAWI: Now, when Mohammed completed his studies in North Carolina in 1986, his forwarding address was a local Post Office box. At the time there was virtual live nothing to indicate what he was to become -- one of the world's most wanted men -- Aaron.

BROWN: You feel bad for the professor. There's no way for anyone in that situation to know what someone is going to grow up to be.

And no one has any remembrance of this guy as being a radical in any way, shape or form, right?

CANDOTTI: Not at all. They said he was very quiet, he was very religious, he was helpful to other students with their studies and at the time the Muslim students on that campus, or roughly 30 of them, were all said to be very pro American because at that time the U.S. was helping the Muslims in Afghanistan in its war against the then Soviet Union.

This is a story rich with irony, Susan. Thank you. Susan Candiotti in Atlanta for us tonight. Still to come On NEWSNIGHT; how a political event 50 years ago continues to make its mark on American politics in general and the Republican party specifically. This is NEWSNIGHT

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: We were talking to an old friend the other day, he's a political consultant who handles Republican campaigns. The subject was Trent Lott and my friend's mood was bleak. We argue said, reaping what we sew. Republicans, for the fishes time he acknowledged in the 20 years I've known him have used race and racial tension to their best political advantage.

How the party of Lincoln became the party that gets fewer than 1 in 10 African-American votes in a national election is a story of politics and pragmatism and strangely enough has its roots in the Democratic party.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN (voice-over) Race used to be the Democrats' problem. When Strom Thurmond stormed out of the 1938 Democratic convention because of President Truman's modest civil rights proposal, the Democratic party was split north and south. The code words were states rights but that was a polite way to say segregation.

STORM THURMOND, DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE FOR PRESIDENT: These damnable proposals he has recommended under the guise of so-called civil rights. And I'll tell you the American people from one side of the other had better wake up and oppose such a program. And if they don't, the next thing will be a totalitarian state in these United States.

BROWN: Thurmond's Dixiecrats won in several states in states, 87 percent in Mississippi in a time where few African-Americans were allowed to vote. In the land mark 1964 Civil Rights bill would never had passed had it not been for Northern Moderate Republicans, because Democrats in the South opposed it.

LYNDON JOHNSON, PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES: The wrong is one which no American in his heart can justify.

BROWN: But LBJ knew the political implications for the Democratic party. We have, he said, just lost the south.

LEE EDWARDS, SENIOR FELLOW HERITAGE INSTITUTE: Blacks, African- Americans looked upon this as a rite of political passage. And if you voted for whatever reason, constitutional or whatever reason, even on the best of constitutional reason, if you voted against this, that you were against them and you were a racist and a bigot.

BROWN: Today even conservative writers acknowledge it is not that simple.

STEPHEN HARRIS, STAFF WRITER "THE WEEKLY STANDARD": We have to be honest about it I think. There employment of the Southern strategy have a sorted history on the use of race. They used it for (UNINTELLIGIBLE) means, I think, to win votes at the expense of bringing people together.

BROWN: Do you think it was an accident that Ronald Reagan opened his campaign in Philadelphia, Mississippi, home to one of the most storied crimes of the civil rights era, the murder of three civil rights workers? The southern strategy worked. Whites became solidly Republican blacks now able to vote became Democrats. In 1960 Richard Nixon won 32 percent of the African-American vote by 1980 Ronald Reagan could capture but 10 percent and George W. Bush did about the same.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You rarely hear Republicans articulate a positive vision on race. I think it's because they're afraid of having people take pot shots at them and there's some reason to be a little afraid. You've had some I think terrible race bidding on the parts of Democrats and the civil rights establishment.

BROWN: And that may be but conservative Republicans have given them plenty of ammunition, some real, some symbolic. There were votes against extending the voting rights act, votes against the fair housing bill, votes against the Martin Luther King holiday. While arguments can be made those votes and others were not about race as such but about a broader principle of the role of the federal government, the effect has been undeniable. And today many in the party of Lincoln fear they are seen as having lost the moral high ground on one of the great moral issues of American life.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If people think that Trent Lott in his comments at the birthday party speak for the Republican party, it's both sad and disappointing and utterly terrifying.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: A little more on this after a break. We'll talk with former governor of Pennsylvania and Attorney General Dick Thornburgh on the subject of race and Republican party. This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Well, thank you. In a moment, Republicans and race. We are joined by former Attorney General Dick Thornburgh. This is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: One of the great truths or at least one of the great sayings of American politics, is that social security is the third rail that is to dangerous to touch. In truth the real third rail is race. And for two weeks now the Republican party has been brushing up against that third rail in a most uncomfortable way.

Richard Thornburgh has thought a lot about this. Former governor of Pennsylvania, former Attorney General for President Reagan and the first President Bush. Governor joins us tonight from Washington where he's now in private practice. It's nice to see you.

RICHARD THORNBURGH, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: Good evening.

BROWN: Let's be as they say over at the State Department frank and direct. Does the Republican party have any reason to be ashamed of its record on race?

THORNBURGH: I think the real mischief that is done by this current controversy is we're in a time where there's broad consensus among the American populous about the issue of civil rights and here we have an appearance of nostalgia for the bad old days of segregation and discrimination.

It's a real blow I think in particular to President Bush, who has made clear that he wants outreach. He's made key appointments of African-Americans in his cabinet and really has I think expressed a genuine desire to swell the ranks of the Republican party with minority voters. But this is a setback and it's going to -- we're going to pay a price for it.

BROWN: When you hear and you've heard this a lot over the last couple of weeks, conservative commentators, you just heard in the piece that proceeded you, say things like Republicans have assorted history of using race to win elections. Are you buying that? Do you agree with that?

THORNBURGH: I'm sure that in both parties there are cases where that's been true, but I go back to my own experience and I realize that the benefits of competition. That's what our political system out to be about. In 1978 when I first ran for governor, Jesse Jackson made a speech to the Republican National Committee chiding the Democrats for taking black voters for granted and the Republicans for ignoring them.

And I was an underdog candidate at the time and we decided we'd go out and compete for those votes and we got 58 percent of the black vote in the state of Pennsylvania, which was unheard of up to that time and even got Reverend Jackson's endorsement for my candidacy. I think if you make the effort, if you have a real outreach to minority voters, it will pay off whether you're a Democrat or a Republican. And if you don't, you'll pay a price for it, whether you're a Democrat or Republican. BROWN: I want to look forward. I don't want to spend all our time here looking back. Why is it then a smart politician can look at what you just described in your own situation in Pennsylvania and say I want that vote, yet nevertheless the pattern is that African- Americans in overwhelming numbers, 80 percent, 90 percent, vote Democratic?

THORNBURGH: In the presidential elections it does appear that we've gone from being the party of Lincoln to the party in the permanent deep minority. But I think in any situation and this one's full of irony and cross currents, that can change. And I think what President Bush really has in mind by his key appointments of his two top foreign policy advisers, Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice, was to create role models of real Republicans who hold positions of power.

And that the next generation of African-American voters look to that rather than to the past or to the 32nd spots that attempt to condense an anti-Republican effort into a short period of time. It's a long shot but it's got to be taken and I think leaders who are of substance and who have character and who believe in the American way are going to continue to do that in both parties.

BROWN: Do you think short term this is obviously for the Republican party painful and difficult. Do you think that there is in this at least the opportunity longer term that this whole episode with Senator Lott will actually be advantageous? That it will be as we suggested at the beginning it's forcing a conversation that no one's very comfortable with but probably is long overdue in American politics.

THORNBURGH: It has been kind of a silent issue, even though I really feel that among the American people there's a broad consensus that respects minority rights and rejects the notion of the nostalgia of the past. It will be interesting to see how Republicans in power today respond to this.

Whether or not new leadership emerges on this issue, whether it's a replacement of Senator Lott or new centers of power that spring up within the Congress or what the president does in order to make it clear that the party of Lincoln still has a place. And in fact, is seeking to create more place for African-Americans within it's ranks.

BROWN: Just a final question. There's no quick fix here. This is just long, difficult work of making the case, isn't it?

THORNBURGH: Certainly is. When you consider from 1865, to the end of the Civil War, until 1965 the right to vote was systematically denied to black voters in the South, and it was only with Republican support that the Voting Rights Act passed in 1965. You can you see how this changes over a period of time but it is sometimes a very long period of time. Let's hope it can be accelerated here.

BROWN: Governor, it's nice to talk with you. We appreciate the thoughtfulness you brought to the program tonight. Have a good holiday.

THORBURGH: Thank you, Aaron.

BROWN: Thank you so very much.

Next on NEWSNIGHT, we'll wrap it up with on the rise. It's all about chocolate. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Finally from us tonight, another in our series of portraits of young people who have set out to do interesting and exciting and perhaps unexpected things, mostly because those are the things they really want to do in life and never mind the odds or the difficulties or any of the rest of that pragmatic stuff. That's a long sentence.

In other words, this is a series about pluck and passion. We call it "On this Rise" and this chapter of the series is especially sweet.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You guys want some chocolate chocolates?

(MUSIC)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello. My name is Richard Cuzinsky (ph). Owner, executive chef, pastry chef of Ricard Chocalat (ph).

I do a whole different slew of gourmet, high-end 100 percent organic products. I started my business in '99, so coming up maybe on like three or four years now.

I don't have anyone in this with me so I'm creating everything from the packaging to the ganash (ph) flavors to the marketing to the P.R., old calling, whatever it is.

This is Richard from Ricard Chocalat calling.

Here's some chocolate.

I'm not here just to have another product that is there for people to indulge in. Americans, they haven't really got a great education when it comes to chocolate.

To give you a little bit of an idea of what I do, the espresso- infused 72 percent dark chocolate covered popcorn. Smells delicious. That's dinner for tomorrow night.

I do personalized silk screen on the chocolates. We're going to take and dip the Manhattan mix to basically represent the typical, hard working Manhattan person. Just chow 'em down.

The majority of my ingredients I try my hardest to get at the green market at Union Square.

Hello, how are you? It's nice to be able to talk to somebody who is actually growing some of your products.

Here you go.

I'm going to show you some stuff that I'll probably get kicked out of, like, "The Chocolate of the Month Club" or something for showing you.

Basically what I'm making here, this is a gnash (ph) that you would be familiar to the soft centers and the little chocolates.

(MUSIC)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can't believe that I make a living by doing this. It's like living the Willy Wonka dream.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory")

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's chocolate.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's chocolate?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's chocolate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of my dreams in life was to open up a shop that was themed kind of the same way as "Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory" and you could actually have, like, theater enrolled into the shop where you could have, like, little oompa oompas running around.

(MUSIC)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's kind of the whole theory behind, you know, like the -- the staying like a child.

(MUSIC)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I always told myself that I never wanted to have to put a tie on and go sit behind a cubicle every day from 9 to 5 because I would just go crazy.

This is an order that goes to the Mercer Hotel. These are all -- they use these boxes for their V.I.P. Suites.

Hello. That's for you.

Thanks very much.

(MUSIC)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's difficult to find a passion in life, but if you find it, I think it's definitely something to hold on to and I think it makes sense to give up whatever you have to give up to be successful with that passion.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: That's the work of NEWSNIGHT producer Amanda Townsend (ph). Blame her for the cravings you get as you make your way to bed tonight.

We're all back tomorrow. We hope you are too, 10:00 Eastern time. Until them, I'm Aaron Brown in New York. Good night from all of us at NEWSNIGHT.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





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