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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown

Large Anti-War Demonstrations Expected This Weekend; Laci Peterson's Husband Facing More Scrutiny

Aired January 17, 2003 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


AARON BROWN, HOST: Good evening again. I'm Aaron Brown.
The hardest thing about eating a $50 hamburger is not paying for it, though that's exactly easy. The hard part is staying awake the rest of the day. You've probably figured out by now that we open on something less than "War and Peace" tonight. Later, you'll actually meet the $50 hamburger and either delight in it and move to New York, credit card and credit line in hand, or perhaps you'll be repulsed.

I'm not exactly sure how the program became obsessed with hamburgers at any price. Last week it was the $41 model. We traded up today. But I do know thinking about that monster with its truffles and horseradish and all those other tastes I can't yet identify, was about right in a week when our collective tempers seem to be on edge.

War rage I fear is coming. E-mails and phone messages are a little sharper these days. People both for and against are less likely to listen to each other and more likely to shout and name call. Longtime viewers know how much a Vietnam rerun has worried me. Not the war part exactly, but the domestic part. The conflict and the anger and the division.

In the next couple of months, when decisions are to be made, life and death decisions, war and peace, we will see if we as a country have learned much of anything from war and its impact at home. And a lot tonight on Iraq.

We go to "The Whip" and we begin in Baghdad. Saddam Hussein marking the 12th anniversary of the Gulf War as he saw it. Nic Robertson is in Baghdad. Nic, a headline from you.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, well President Saddam Hussein marked that anniversary with a defiant speech rallying the people of Iraq, and warning anyone that would attack they would be committing suicide -- Aaron.

BROWN: Nic, thank you. On to Europe now and just how much the United States can expect in support if it decides a war with Iraq is necessary. Sheila MacVicar worked that today. Sheila, a headline from you.

SHEILA MACVICAR, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The view from overseas, Aaron, give the inspectors more time. And don't even think about going to war without a second U.N. resolution -- Aaron. BROWN: Sheila, thank you. It's not all Iraq tonight. Back to the United States now and yet another terrible story to emerge involving the child welfare system in New Jersey. Jamie Colby has the story again tonight. Jamie, the headline, please.

JAMIE COLBY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Even when New Jersey's child welfare agency has contact with children in its care, there's no guarantee they'll remain safe. Tonight, the story of the three-month baby girl who was killed in DYFS care and a mother's fight for justice -- Aaron.

BROWN: Jamie, thank you. Back to you and the rest shortly.

Also coming up on NEWSNIGHT this Friday the 17 of January, the Vatican's message to Catholic politicians: vote with your conscience, your Catholic conscience. A new development in an old controversy. We'll take a look at that with Ray Flynn (ph), the former U.S. ambassador to the Vatican.

And as we said, of lighter things. Well perhaps not exactly lighter. We raise the ante in the burger war. It is now at $50. One of the country's great chefs created it. And Daniel Blanc (ph) joins us later.

And in search of the smoking gun. Not U.N. inspectors', but NEWSNIGHT's own wordsmiths trying to hunt down the source of America's most timely cliche. Sounds like a Friday story to me. And we have a busy Friday night in the hour ahead.

We begin with voices opposing a possible war. Large demonstrations are expected in the country this weekend. The largest to date since the Iraq debate began. For a variety of reasons, it's an important moment. The right to dissent is a cherished right. Even as sometimes people find it an annoying one.

The obligation to report dissent is a responsibility, even as it may be annoying to those who believe the demonstrators are wrong. But this weekend belongs to the emerging voices of opposition, and it is a test of their arguments and their numbers.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN (voice-over): It is not easy to know exactly how much of an anti-war movement there is. This weekend should tell us something. Ron Kovic has been here before, a generation ago.

RON KOVIC: It is in a sense a rebirth of democracy, of real democracy, a people democracy, where the leadership of this country is going to come from the people who live in this country.

BROWN: But not everyone involved in what still seems an emerging movement is famous. Most are not. They never are.

LINDA BLACK, OWNER, COLLEGE PARK BICYCLES: Bush needs to really seriously consider the views of this diverse group. That he should not just set the course and go for it without taking a lot of other people's views into consideration.

BROWN: Linda Black says she's a Republican. A Republican against the war. Against it enough to help pay for an anti-war ad in the "Wall Street Journal" this week. An ad saying the world wants Saddam Hussein disarmed, but "you must find a better way to do it."

BLACK: There are many, many people who are opposed to this war, sensible people, for legitimate reasons.

BROWN: In Chicago, still politically dominated by Democrats, but hardly know as a hotbed of radicalism, the city council yesterday overwhelmingly approved a resolution that opposes the war with Iraq, unless it poses a real and imminent threat to the United States.

RICHARD DALEY, MAYOR, CHICAGO: Yes, I'm against war -- W-A-R, war. Yes. Iraq, Korea, all of them. China, all of them. Everybody's against war. There's no one who would be for war.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One, two...

BROWN: And then there is this.

ANNOUNCER: War with Iraq. Maybe it will end quickly. Maybe not.

BROWN: In the style of that famous anti-Goldwater ad of 40 years ago, this ad now airs in about a dozen cities. It is paid for by the Web site moveon.org.

BRIAN BECKER, CO-DIRECTOR, INTERNATIONAL ACTION CENTER: The U.N. Resolution 1441, which was passed by the Security Council after weeks of intense pressure from the administration, is not about the disarmament of Iraq, it's a diplomatic fig leaf to serve for this administration and as a trigger to war.

BROWN: The protesters know about polls too. One of the most recent shows that 53 percent of Americans do not think the president has satisfactorily explained yet the need for war with Iraq.

ELI PARISSER, MOVEON.ORG: Many of them support the president. Many of them supported the campaign in Afghanistan. But they simply don't understand why it is critical that we rush to war with Iraq.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: And that is precisely the view of many of America's key allies. Some want to give the inspectors more time to do the job. Others are counseling against the use of force without another U.N. Security Council vote. Either way, President Bush's coalition of the willing looks mighty slim tonight. At the moment, just the United States and Great Britain, and even the British seem a bit wobbly. Here again is CNN's Sheila MacVicar.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MACVICAR (voice-over): One more British warship leaving port, heading for exercises in the Mediterranean. But there is no doubt in the minds of those on board the HMS Ocean, or those who waved goodbye from shore, that they may be sailing into war. And the prospect that Britain will join the U.S. in an attack on Iraq, or that a second U.N. resolution specifically authorizing the use of force, is producing some heavy political weather for the British prime minister.

(on camera): As President Bush's closest ally, Tony Blair is facing increasing opposition from members of his own party. A division so deep, that some have described it as a chasm.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The government is incapable of speaking with one voice.

MACVICAR (voice-over): This week, the prime minister went to some lengths to offer assurances.

TONY BLAIR, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: I believe it's not merely preferable to have a second U.N. resolution.. I believe that we will get one.

MACVICAR: But for many in the U.K., a second resolution would make little difference. Alan Simpson is a labor member of parliament, a member of Tony Blair's party.

ALAN SIMPSON: There's a growing majority public opinion and labor party opinion in Britain that doubts the credibility or legitimacy of war on any terms.

MACVICAR: Across Europe there is deep concern. Germany's chancellor was reelected, at least in part because he opposed war with Iraq. Relations with the U.S. damaged, he now talks about the need for a second resolution. Many here remember wars and fear new instability.

"President Bush's policy is aggressive," he says, "and this is not good for anyone." "It's not necessary to go to war," she says. "It can be solved by talking." Polls show Europeans are not convinced a war is necessary. The latest from Germany? Seventy-six percent say their government should vote against war at the United Nations. Analysts say the Bush administration has not yet persuaded them.

GARY SMITH: He has not made his case. It is not clear to people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The fear is that the what President Bush is looking for is not U.N. resolution, but a fatwah. The rights to conduct a war that he's determined to carry out anyway.

MACVICAR: A second resolution may bring the support of governments, but may not convince the people.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MACVICAR: And the latest opinion poll this time from Scotland, Aaron. A place that one would think as part of the United Kingdom might be more in support, following along with Prime Minister Tony Blair's line. That poll tonight suggesting that 64 percent of those polled opposed war without a second resolution -- Aaron.

BROWN: And did they ask the question what about the second resolution and how does that change the numbers?

MACVICAR: Not in this particular poll. At least not the data that I've seen so far. But consistently, what we are seeing across Europe is that the numbers are very high, very high indeed. In the German case, three-quarters of those polled. Without opposing war, without a second resolution, the numbers do drop. But there nowhere comes into line where governments can be terribly comfortable about this, even if they do get that second resolution.

BROWN: And just give me a quick impression. This isn't a fact question, it's an impression. Just -- you live there. You know. Do you think evidence at this point will change opinion? Or is opinion, in your impression, locked in?

MACVICAR: Opinion is not locked in. But people are deeply concerned. They are concerned about the Bush administration, they are concerned about the Bush administration's policy.

They see an administration that in this instance they think is acting in a very aggressive manner. And they don't really understand the need for this war. They look at what's happening in North Korea and they say, well hang on a second, North Korea, they've got nuclear weapons. And they actually acknowledge that they're producing nuclear weapons. And nobody's talking about going to war against them.

So what was it exactly that Iraq did? So the administration has not made its case. The British government, which is of course the closest ally to President Bush, has also not made its case. People are deeply skeptical, they are very worried about this.

BROWN: Sheila, thank you. Sheila MacVicar in London for us tonight taking a look at how Europe sees all this.

We thought this a good night to take a look at polling with the anti-war demonstrations scheduled for tomorrow, or over the weekend, at least. So we're joined tonight by our Senior Political Analyst, Bill Schneider, to talk a bit about the polling on this. Bill, good evening to you.

I want to start with this discovery yesterday of the warheads. And this is really a case where a poll question measures perception, but not reality in a sense.

WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: Well that's right. Americans, when they heard about the empty warheads, do they accept that as definitive evidence that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction? And the answer is clearly, yes. Seventy-one percent said they do.

OK. Does that mean we're ready to go to war? Maybe. But the question did not go that far. Americans have long believed Saddam Hussein has weapons of mass destruction.

There is another condition that has to be met before the public, the American public, is ready to go to war. And that's other countries have to go along with us. Our polling shows that most Americans believe the U.S. should send in troops only if the United Nations supports the invasion. And, in fact, the number of Americans who feel that way has actually been growing.

Americans want to get rid of Saddam Hussein, but they want to do it in what they regard as the right way. Which is the rest of the world has to be with us.

BROWN: And I know that we are -- we've actually been polling this -- we've been in the field on this question, the difference in the United Nations support or the lack of United Nations support. Can you put specific numbers on it yet? Are we still working the data?

SCHNEIDER: We're still working the data, but we do know that from what we've seen so far, the numbers who say there has to be U.N. support, not opposition but support, that's been growing. Only about one in four Americans say we should do it whether or not the U.N. is with us.

BROWN: OK. One of the things we wanted to look at is how public opinion today on possible war with Iraq compares to public opinion back during the first Gulf War.

SCHNEIDER: Yes. Well a majority of Americans today says it is worth going to war over the situation in Iraq. You know this is important. See that 53 percent there on the left? Now? Yes, 53? That is very rare.

It's very rare that a majority of Americans support going to war, unless the United States is attacked. Well, remember, the United States was attacked. Not by Iraq, but by a group that Americans believe has ties to Iraq. And we've endured 12 years now of Iraqi provocations.

But those other figures on the right show that in January of 1991, 12 years ago, Americans were actually closely divided over the Gulf War. They were much more reluctant. You see? Forty-six, yes; 44, no. That was 12 years ago. There was a lot more reluctance then to go to war with Kuwait because, of course, we weren't attacked.

BROWN: Yes. That's the 9/11 factor that overshadows all of this.

SCHNEIDER: That's right. 9/11 is important. Americans were attacked. And the only question that's raised, and it's an important one, is what ties does Iraq have? How much responsibility does it bear? Actually, most Americans believe Iraq does bear some responsibility for those attacks.

BROWN: In the absence of any evidence that is true?

SCHNEIDER: In the absence, because Iraq has expressed sympathy for Arab radicals.

BROWN: Bill, thank you. Bill Schneider, who has been working on polling today for us. Good to see you. Thank you.

SCHNEIDER: Good to see you -- sure.

BROWN: Baghdad next, where we simply don't know what the people are really thinking about the war or anything else. In Iraq, of course, the government manufactures public opinion by decree and then markets it wholesale. And today, business was quite good. The report from CNN's Nic Robertson.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON (voice-over): Demonstrators at a Baghdad rally destroy the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) of a U.S. president. Scenes reminiscent of the Iraqi capital on the eve of the Gulf War 12 years ago. The 2,000- strong crowd at this government-organized protest chant their support for President Saddam Hussein, just as they did 12 years ago.

In his annual address commemorating the start of the Gulf War, President Saddam Hussein told the Iraqis they had been victorious. Reminding them of Baghdad's destruction in the thirteenth century by Mongol armies, he called on Iraqis to defend their capital.

SADDAM HUSSEIN, PRESIDENT OF IRAQ (through translator): The people and the rulers of Baghdad have resolved to compel the Mongols of this age to commit suicide on its walls.

ROBERTSON: The anniversary made little difference to the U.N. weapons inspectors. Teams continued their work. This day at an ice factory and a former chemical plant. Their discovery Thursday of a dozen empty chemical warheads being played down here as officials counter criticism they are not cooperating with inspectors.

MOHAMMAD AL DOURI, IRAQI AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: (UNINTELLIGIBLE). So I don't think we can give more than we gave already.

ROBERTSON: In continuing efforts to build regional support, (UNINTELLIGIBLE), a cousin of the Iraqi president, and one of his most trusted officials, left for Syria and other Arab countries, dismissing speculation that Saddam might go into exile.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): These are ridiculous conclusions, nonsense. It's part of a psychological war technique.

ROBERTSON: Closer to home in Baghdad, a small sign of some improving diplomatic relations. Iraqi and Russian officials signing an oil deal. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) the cancellation last year of a massive Russian oil project.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON: Now it's just that sort of support that Iraqi officials hope they can build on to deter any war, Aaron. However, the message this day, very clear: if that support isn't forthcoming, then they're willing to go to war and fight to the end -- Aaron.

BROWN: Well, that's what they said 12 years ago, too, I guess. Was there any discussion today about the find yesterday, the inspectors discovering these warheads and what they may or may not mean?

ROBERTSON: Well, it has been played down here. Iraqi officials were very quick to try to put it into their context, saying it was a storm (ph) in a tea cup, the warheads had been in boxes, they'd been overlooked, they weren't even dangerous. And that was a message again on Friday.

(UNINTELLIGIBLE), before he left for Syria, saying very much the same thing. And interestingly, Aaron, his quotes actually running on Iraqi television here. It's not often that something quite so contentious is put in the public domain quite so quickly here.

BROWN: Nic, thank you. Nic Robertson, who is back in Baghdad these days. Thank you.

This weekend, along with all the news of the day on Iraq, the anti-war protests that are going along in the country. The network devoting a full hour to the subject of a possible war, "Showdown Iraq, War Clouds." The program looks at a whole host of issues. The chances for diplomacy, and of course what happens if diplomacy does not work.

The shape a war might take, the risks involved on all sides. New challenges for American fighting men and women if there is in fact a second Gulf War. CNN 8:00 and again at 11:00 PM Eastern Time on Sunday.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT: from New York, new developments in the case of the disappearance of Laci Peterson. We'll get to that. And in the second half-hour, we'll meet a mother who trusted the state of New Jersey to take care of her child. From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: The national roundup tonight begins with a chilling piece of video. It comes from the sentencing proceedings for the shoe bomber, Richard Reid. Prosecutors released the tape today, which apparently was made to answer the question, could the bomb in Reid's shoe bring down an airliner?

The tape pretty much says yes. Although we don't know exactly how this experiment was done, we can tell you -- oh my -- that the sentencing for Mr. Reid is scheduled for the end of the month. He pled guilty in the case.

Tom Ridge cleared the first hurdle to becoming the country's first secretary of homeland secretary. The Senate committee approved his nomination today. No surprise. The full Senate expected to weigh in on Tuesday.

Another 10,000 sailors and Marines shipped out for the Gulf today. The sailors came from San Diego, the Marines from Camp Pendleton. 67,000 troops are now on their way or about to leave for the Gulf in just the next few days. The program has not done more than a few small updates on the case of Laci Peterson. The story took a turn today that seems to warrant a bit more than that. We'll admit that we were struck by a date today, February 10. That's the date that Ms. Peterson, who's been missing since Christmas Eve, is due to give birth to a baby boy. Now that boy's father, Laci's husband, is facing a lot more scrutiny from the police and from the people who have stood by him since his wife disappeared.

Here's CNN's Rusty Dornin.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It wasn't long after Laci Peterson disappeared that there were questions about husband Scott. He said he went fishing the day his wife vanished, but police refuse to eliminate him as a suspect. Now sources close to the family say Modesto police showed them pictures of Scott Peterson with another woman with whom he was allegedly having an affair. They also told the family he took out a $250,000 life insurance policy on his wife.

KIM PETERSON, FAMILY SPOKESPERSON: Laci's stepfather asked Scott if he had a girlfriend. Scott told him no, and Ron believed him. Now, however, they believe that he has lied to them about this and possibly other things as well.

DORNIN: "The Modesto Bee" reported that police told the family the discovery was why they felt Scott Peterson might be involved in his wife's disappearance. In the meantime, Scott Peterson had planned to open another volunteer center for his wife in Los Angeles over the weekend. Those plans have been canceled.

And in a phone interview with affiliate KTVU, Peterson said he's angry over "The Bee's" reporting and plans to take matters into his own hands.

SCOTT PETERSON, LACI PETERSON's HUSBAND: Well, it's a bunch of lies in the article. So what are you going to do?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So what's your plan now?

PETERSON: I'm going to come back to Modesto and open up my own volunteer center and find my wife and my kid.

DORNIN: When the headlines hit, the volunteer center in Modesto shut down. Modesto police chaplain Don Crooker (ph) was there every day and says many like him felt betrayed.

DON CROOKER, MODESTO POLICE CHAPLAIN: Was devastated. Unbelievable. And believe me, chaplains cry.

DORNIN: Modesto police have no official comment on the state of the investigation. From the beginning, Laci Peterson's family stood behind her husband, always choosing to talk about the good times. SHARON ROCA, LACI PETERSON'S MOTHER: They were always happy together. I've never heard either of them say anything against the other. I've never heard them argue or even heard about an argument. They were a happy, happy couple.

DORNIN: Trust based on a belief that is now eroding. Rusty Dornin, CNN, Modesto, California.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Still ahead on NEWSNIGHT for this Friday night, papal advice for politicians. But how will it play in America? And "Segment 7" later rolls into town to answer the question, just where did the term smoking gun come from?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: We often hear about the struggle to separate church and state in places like schools or libraries. But we can imagine some of the most emotional debates go on in a very different place. In the heart of a politician.

Politicians are forced to make decisions for many people of many faiths. Decisions that might sometimes go against beliefs they cherish. Keeping the interests of fair leadership and faith apart must be very hard for true believers sometimes. And for Catholic politicians, the Vatican is now trying to make it even harder.

Here's CNN's Alessio Vinci.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALESSIO VINCI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was Pope John Paul II's first direct reference to the crisis in Iraq since the United States threatened military action to disarm Saddam Hussein. And the continuation of what has been a consistent Vatican anti-war line on the Iraqi issue.

Addressing foreign diplomats at the holy sea, the pope, while not mentioning the United States by name, said war was not always inevitable. "War is never just another means that one can choose to employ for settling differences between nations," the pope told ambassadors, speaking in French. Adding, the U.N. charter and international law itself remind us that war cannot be decided upon even when it is a matter of ensuring common good. Except, he said, as the very last option.

Equally significant, other Vatican officials in recent interviews have been unusually blunt in criticizing U.S. foreign policy in Iraq, saying it was "unacceptable for the U.S. to play the role of universal policeman." Adding that a preventive war would have no moral or legal justification.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They have been connecting the dots, if you will, and making it very clear that the pope's sort of universal appeal for peace encompasses, very specifically, an appeal to the U.S. to find a nonviolent solution in Iraq.

VINCI: But will the pope's call for peace make any difference? Judging from recent history, not much. The pope was a strong opponent of the Persian Gulf War in 1991. It happened anyway. And the pope also opposed the NATO bombing campaign over Yugoslavia in 1999.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On the other hand, there are historical examples where papal interventions did work. A fairly well-known case is in the Cuban Missile Crisis. John XXIII sent simultaneous messages to Kennedy and Khrushchev. Both of them later acknowledged that played a significant role in de-escalating the crisis.

We also know that, in 1979, Chile and Argentina were poised to go to war with one another over possession of the Beagle Islands. John Paul demanded that they come to the negotiating table. And they did. And war was averted. So, it can work. It doesn't always work.

VINCI: (on camera): Few here believe this pope could actually stop military action against Iraq, should President Bush decide to go to war. As the U.S. ambassador to the Holy See put it in a recent interview, the U.S. would prefer the pope's support, but also accepted the fact that the U.S. and the Vatican won't always see eye to eye.

Alessio Vinci, CNN, Rome.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: I'm joined from Boston to talk about religion and politics, particularly where Catholics are concerned, by Ray Flynn, a former mayor of that city, U.S. ambassador to the Vatican as well. We're always glad to see him.

RAY FLYNN, FORMER AMBASSADOR TO THE VATICAN: Good evening, Aaron.

BROWN: Ambassador Flynn, good to have you with us.

Context, it seems to me, is helpful here. In 1960, the question of Catholicism in American politics was enormous. President Kennedy, the first successful Catholic candidate, and all of that, went to Houston to essentially proclaim he would not -- this was a hugely famous speech at the time -- that he would not essentially be the voice of the Vatican in America. A lot of things have changed since then for politicians, right?

FLYNN: Well, there's no question. I don't think anybody really wants Catholic politicians to take their orders from the Vatican.

But I don't think American Catholic politicians ought to forget the values of their religion as well. This is not about politics. This is about the teaching of Jesus Christ, rooted in scripture, rooted in tradition. And just because you're elected president or the United States senator, that doesn't mean that you forget what your values are and what you really believe in.

I just think that politicians who make the judgments on the basis of what is politically popular or what public opinion polls say, I just think that they're very shallow. And, really, those aren't the kind of people that I want to see in office.

BROWN: Listen, to me, the interesting question, or one of the interesting questions, here is, in a sense, what do we want from our elected officials? Do we want them to lead, to vote their conscience, to do what they think is best? Or do we want them to represent what we want? Those are not necessarily the same.

FLYNN: No.

What do we want? Who are we? Are we the public opinion, which changes from election to election? The Catholic Church, as I say, Aaron, is rooted in history and tradition and the teachings of Jesus Christ. It's not a political party that changes its position every election. I think that it is so very, very appropriate.

That's why I respect John Paul II. And that's why I love the Catholic faith, because of the fact that they are particularly focused on issues and they don't change, whether it's the death penalty, whether it's abortion, whether it's war, whether it's immigrant, whether it's poor. If you think about some of those issues that I just mentioned, Aaron, say, for example, immigrants, the war, just-war theory, and so forth, the church doesn't change its position.

Now, you tell me a politician, however, that, because, in light of public opinion, hasn't changed their position on a number of these issues. So, I think it's a very appropriate role for the holy father to be a moral voice that, in this society, in this secular society, you probably wouldn't hear that voice coming anywhere else except from religious leaders like John Paul II. And I welcome that. I think it really contributes something to a very healthy and important debate.

While they're making their political decision, I see nothing wrong with them hearing a moral aspect of the issue as well.

BROWN: We're just down to a minute here. And I hope this doesn't come too far from right field. Do you think the scandals that -- the priest scandals that have so troubled all of us, and particularly Catholics, and particularly in your city, affect Catholic politicians and their relationship to the church and what Catholics expect of politicians relative to some of these issues?

FLYNN: That's a fair question.

And I think a number of politicians will use the situation, the clergy sexual abuse scandal, as an opportunity for them to walk away from the traditions and the values and the teachings of Jesus Christ and basically say, well, who's going to listen to the holy father? Who's going to listen to the Catholic Church, anyway? The church is vulnerable. There's no question about that. That's unfortunate.

But, nevertheless, I think that society at large has to hear the voice of religious leaders. I see this as a very important component of any major political debate in this world today, particularly on the issue of war and the death penalty and abortion and all these other issues, to hear the moral component of the issue as well. And then the politicians are going to go out and make the decision, hopefully, that they feel is in the best interests, not only of their conscience, but also of their constituents and society at large, not just their narrow constituency.

BROWN: Ambassador Lynn, it's good to talk to you, always. And it's nice to actually talk to once where we didn't spend our whole time talking about the abuse scandal.

FLYNN: Yes.

BROWN: Thank you, sir, very much.

FLYNN: Thank you.

BROWN: Thank you, Ambassador Ray Flynn.

A little bit past half past the hour at this point, 36 minutes past the hour.

Plenty to go on NEWSNIGHT for a Friday, beginning with the story of a mother who trusted the state of New Jersey to watch her child, a child who is now dead.

And later, in segment seven, what's all this talk about smoking guns anyway?

Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: And next on NEWSNIGHT: the story of another failure of the foster care system in the state of New Jersey.

A short break and we're right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: We're troubled -- OK, we're a little more hot-tempered than that, but we'll use troubled for now -- by a scolding in one of the "New York Times"'s columns this week about the case of little boys in Newark, New Jersey.

CNN has moved on, it said. The writer hasn't been watching, because this program has not moved on, not yet. The story of abuse is so terrible and what it says about New Jersey's child welfare system is too important for us to walk away from.

So tonight: the case of a different child who was killed back in 1998 while under the agency's watch, who left behind a family that is brokenhearted and is demanding answers.

Once again for us, here's CNN's Jamie Colby.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COLBY (voice-over): Elena Colon trusted the system.

ELENA COLON, MOTHER: They told me, if you go to a program and you do what you've got to do, you'll get your daughter back.

COLBY: She voluntarily placed her newborn with New Jersey's Division of Youth and Family Services, or DYFS, while completing a three-month substance abuse program.

COLON: And I did everything they told me to do.

COLBY: But just weeks before she was to be reunited with her daughter, Sky, she got an unexpected visit from her case worker.

COLON: She told me, you've got to go to the hospital. And I said, why? She said, something happened to Sky. She is in the hospital.

COLBY: Sky's foster mother hired a family friend, Rosa Tavarez, to look after the baby while attending night school, an arrangement Elena's attorney said DYFS approved.

STEPHAN MASHEL, ATTORNEY FOR COLON: They knew who the babysitter was. They had the babysitter sign various forms, did a fingerprint check, criminal check, and interfaced with this babysitter.

COLBY: At the hospital, doctors told Elena Sky had been so severely shaken, she'd suffered a traumatic brain injury.

COLON: How could got a child, being three months -- could bother a person so much?

COLBY: For two days, Elena held her lifeless baby.

COLON: The doctors told me she had a broken neck, ribs, and her arm, and she damage to her head, to her brain.

COLBY: Until doctors took the little girl off life support.

Tavarez pled guilty to manslaughter and is serving four years in a New Jersey prison.

(on camera): Elena and the baby's father are suing DYFS, their case worker, the foster mother, and the woman who killed Sky. DYFS declined to comment on the case. In the lawsuit, Elena alleges that, during a supervised visit, she told her case worker she suspected abuse.

COLON: I changed her Pamper and I turned her around. And she had a big black-and-blue on the back. And I called quickly. And I said, what's this? She was like, I don't know, but I'll tell my supervisor, so we could check into it.

COLBY (voice-over): Elena says her case worker claimed it was just a diaper rash. DYFS, in its response to Elena's lawsuit, denies allegations of abuse. The case worker and the foster mother are also fighting the case, but declined to comment. COLON: They didn't believe me. I was a person doing bad at that time. Why should we believe her? I guess.

MASHEL: If the child had remained with her, the child would be alive today. There's no doubt about that. My client's raised five other children. But she did what the state said was best. And she lost her child. And she'll take that to her grave.

COLON: The next time that somebody tells them something, they should listen to them, because they didn't listen to me.

COLBY: If only DYFS had listened, Elena says, she'd be holding her daughter today.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLBY: Elena Colon's case is scheduled to go to trial in March. Now New Jersey's embattled child welfare agency not only has to answer to an angry governor, but to the court as well -- Aaron.

BROWN: Jamie, thank you. That's a tough one.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, on yet another chilly Friday night in New York: Bring your appetite and, please, bring your wallet. Chef Daniel Boulud is here to make a $50 hamburger. He takes American Express, no credit limit.

And we'll wind up tonight, in Segment 7, with the rhetorical question: Just where does the term smoking gun come from?

This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Up next on NEWSNIGHT, the man behind the $50 burger meets the man who ate one. That would be me.

This is NEWSNIGHT. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Only in New York, it seems, could you face a tradeoff like this: Pay your monthly cable bill or pay for a burger for lunch.

As you probably guessed, this is not your father's burger. This is the latest in our super-priced burger series. What is with us? Last week, it was the $41 burger. We've upped the ante tonight. It's $50. I had one today. If you want to know the truth, it's quite busy. It's more busy than burger. It's got black truffles, with braised short ribs. And what would a burger be without some foie gras as well? You do that at home, don't you?

It will make you long for those innocent days of two all-beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese,pickles, onions, on a sesame seed bun. You didn't think I was going to be able to do that, did you? Or maybe not. It was wonderful. It's the creation of Daniel Boulud, who owns several forget-about-getting-a-table restaurants here in New York. And he joins us now. And he's truly one of the great chefs who works in America these days.

It's nice to meet you, finally.

DANIEL BOULUD, CREATOR, THE $50 DB BURGER: Thank you very much, Aaron.

BROWN: Take a shot of the burger here quickly. You've got to explain this. It's like a hamburger parfait, because there's so much going on.

BOULUD: I think this is the Taj Mahal of burgers, in a way.

There's multiple layers. We start with a Parmesan bun with onion seed, homemade.

BROWN: I need to turn it this way, so they can shoot it.

BOULUD: So, that's the top.

BROWN: There you go.

BOULUD: And then after, we have fresh and baked tomato, also as well in the oven. And layers of truffle between a 10-ounce burger, where, inside, it's filled with braised short ribs, cooked for hours in red wine.

BROWN: That's short the rib in there. And that's the foie gras.

BOULUD: Yes. And mixed with foie gras in the center and truffle. So, the idea is that this burger, normally at DB Bistro Moderne is $29. But during the fresh truffle season, I have wonderful fresh black truffle here. During the fresh black truffle season, I boosted my burger -- because the burger is made to go very well with truffle, with the meat, and all that.

BROWN: Of course.

BOULUD: So the truffle, of course, is $500 a pound. So, adding the truffle into the burger, it's a little bit of a bonus.

BROWN: It's just a wonderful smell, the truffle.

BOULUD: It's wonderful. It's very earthy. It's very unique. And I think it's quite a unique burger.

BROWN: All right, a couple of quick questions. Do you think you could sell it in Omaha?

BOULUD: In Omaha?

BROWN: In Omaha, Nebraska?

BOULUD: No.

BROWN: It's a New York kind of deal, isn't it?

BOULUD: It's a New York thing. And, also, I'm a French chef.

BROWN: No.

(LAUGHTER)

BOULUD: I am very proud to show to the French that a burger can be the greatest thing on Earth.

BROWN: So, this is a French burger?

BOULUD: American.

BROWN: French-American burger?

BOULUD: Yes. It's everything about the American burger and everything about the French, flavor, taste, deep flavor, and layers of texture and flavor. And, also, this is a burger meant for grownups.

BROWN: Yes. Well, so few kids get $50 for allowance.

BOULUD: Exactly. Plus, it's really a burger that goes very well with red wine as well.

BROWN: One serious technical question about it. The ground beef is very -- pretty low-fat ground beef?

BOULUD: Exactly. I keep the fat a little bit less in order to have the braised short ribs.

BROWN: That was, honestly, my one quibble with it today.

BOULUD: You wanted more fat?

BROWN: A little more fat, yes.

BOULUD: OK. I'll make sure to check on that.

BROWN: I'm sure you can.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: No, that's not the point. The point is, why -- as I recall, the Kobe beef that we did last night is of much higher fat content.

BOULUD: It's much higher. It might be 35, 40 percent, I don't know exactly the content, but it's much higher fat. But this burger, it takes a great chef to build a burger like this.

BROWN: Yes, it does.

BOULUD: Grinding a patty and patting on the grill and put it between two buns don't take much of a great chef. But here, I'm very proud to have created a burger with beyond just the flavor of a burger. Once you have it, you never forget.

BROWN: Seriously, do you think someone who's a reasonably good cook could whip this up at home?

BOULUD: Yes. You have start by braise the short ribs.

BROWN: You have to commit a whole day to this.

BOULUD: Basically, you start two days ahead.

BROWN: Two days?

BOULUD: Yes, it's easier.

BROWN: Well, I guess we could all do that.

How many do you sell a day? Do you know?

BOULUD: Well, today, we sold about -- at the restaurant at lunch, we sell about 100 burgers a day. And the DB burger royale -- which we call it royale because -- and this is only during the truffle season until March. And we sold about 40 percent today. So that was amazing. I was very surprised. So, I think people love it.

BROWN: Is that right; 40 percent of the people who were in the restaurant today bought this burger?

BOULUD: Yes.

BROWN: And we paid for the burger, you know. We didn't take a freebie.

BOULUD: I know. But the thing is, also, doing fresh white truffle, white truffles is two times to three times more expensive than black. And people will shave white truffle, plain risotto, and pay $100 for it. So, I feel that my burger is a bargain at $50.

BROWN: It's the most wonderful taste.

BOULUD: Thank you, Aaron.

BROWN: It was nice to meet you.

BOULUD: Thank you.

BROWN: A wonderful chef.

BOULUD: A pleasure.

BROWN: Thank you. We have enjoyed your food. And we enjoyed the burger today.

BOULUD: Thank you.

BROWN: Segment seven and smoking gun.

A short break. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Finally from us tonight, we know, we know. There's plenty enough to worry about in the world without worrying about a couple of expressions we can't seem to get through the day without hearing, or, in my case, at least, without having to say. But you know how life is. Sometimes, the little things force themselves in the front part of your brain and just won't dislodge until you've mulled them over and over.

So, indulge me again for a moment.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's a smoking gun.

DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That elusive smoking gun.

SCOTT RITTER, FORMER U.N. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: Smoking gun.

BROWN (voice-over): That's the first expression, smoking gun. We all know what it means. It means positive, visible, tangible proof. It's what the weapons inspectors are looking for in Iraq, what the administration is urged to deliver, if it has such a thing, what reporters and many others would like to see.

But it's a really odd expression, we think, under the circumstances. It comes from the Wild West, I suppose, or police dramas, and conjures up a Desperado standing over a dead body, unable to deny or explain away his guilt, because the revolver in his hand is still smoking. When you think about what's being talked about in Iraq, though, germs and poisons and explosives designed to kill thousands or tens of thousands of people, smoking gun seems almost laughably inadequate. We really need something else, something befitting the gravity of what's been sought. We're open to suggestions.

And then there's the second expression, the one the government has taken to using when it issues a new terrorism alert: credible evidence. Now, here's a question. If it isn't credible, is it evidence?

These are small things only if you think clarity is a small thing. And we don't.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Good to have you with us this week.

On Monday, the Martin Luther King holiday here in the country, we will again, in the NEWSNIGHT tradition, play the entire "I Have a Dream" speech. If you haven't heard it, it's terrific. If you have, you'll enjoy it again. Join us.

Good night for all of us at NEWSNIGHT.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





Peterson's Husband Facing More Scrutiny>


Aired January 17, 2003 - 22:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, HOST: Good evening again. I'm Aaron Brown.
The hardest thing about eating a $50 hamburger is not paying for it, though that's exactly easy. The hard part is staying awake the rest of the day. You've probably figured out by now that we open on something less than "War and Peace" tonight. Later, you'll actually meet the $50 hamburger and either delight in it and move to New York, credit card and credit line in hand, or perhaps you'll be repulsed.

I'm not exactly sure how the program became obsessed with hamburgers at any price. Last week it was the $41 model. We traded up today. But I do know thinking about that monster with its truffles and horseradish and all those other tastes I can't yet identify, was about right in a week when our collective tempers seem to be on edge.

War rage I fear is coming. E-mails and phone messages are a little sharper these days. People both for and against are less likely to listen to each other and more likely to shout and name call. Longtime viewers know how much a Vietnam rerun has worried me. Not the war part exactly, but the domestic part. The conflict and the anger and the division.

In the next couple of months, when decisions are to be made, life and death decisions, war and peace, we will see if we as a country have learned much of anything from war and its impact at home. And a lot tonight on Iraq.

We go to "The Whip" and we begin in Baghdad. Saddam Hussein marking the 12th anniversary of the Gulf War as he saw it. Nic Robertson is in Baghdad. Nic, a headline from you.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, well President Saddam Hussein marked that anniversary with a defiant speech rallying the people of Iraq, and warning anyone that would attack they would be committing suicide -- Aaron.

BROWN: Nic, thank you. On to Europe now and just how much the United States can expect in support if it decides a war with Iraq is necessary. Sheila MacVicar worked that today. Sheila, a headline from you.

SHEILA MACVICAR, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The view from overseas, Aaron, give the inspectors more time. And don't even think about going to war without a second U.N. resolution -- Aaron. BROWN: Sheila, thank you. It's not all Iraq tonight. Back to the United States now and yet another terrible story to emerge involving the child welfare system in New Jersey. Jamie Colby has the story again tonight. Jamie, the headline, please.

JAMIE COLBY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Even when New Jersey's child welfare agency has contact with children in its care, there's no guarantee they'll remain safe. Tonight, the story of the three-month baby girl who was killed in DYFS care and a mother's fight for justice -- Aaron.

BROWN: Jamie, thank you. Back to you and the rest shortly.

Also coming up on NEWSNIGHT this Friday the 17 of January, the Vatican's message to Catholic politicians: vote with your conscience, your Catholic conscience. A new development in an old controversy. We'll take a look at that with Ray Flynn (ph), the former U.S. ambassador to the Vatican.

And as we said, of lighter things. Well perhaps not exactly lighter. We raise the ante in the burger war. It is now at $50. One of the country's great chefs created it. And Daniel Blanc (ph) joins us later.

And in search of the smoking gun. Not U.N. inspectors', but NEWSNIGHT's own wordsmiths trying to hunt down the source of America's most timely cliche. Sounds like a Friday story to me. And we have a busy Friday night in the hour ahead.

We begin with voices opposing a possible war. Large demonstrations are expected in the country this weekend. The largest to date since the Iraq debate began. For a variety of reasons, it's an important moment. The right to dissent is a cherished right. Even as sometimes people find it an annoying one.

The obligation to report dissent is a responsibility, even as it may be annoying to those who believe the demonstrators are wrong. But this weekend belongs to the emerging voices of opposition, and it is a test of their arguments and their numbers.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN (voice-over): It is not easy to know exactly how much of an anti-war movement there is. This weekend should tell us something. Ron Kovic has been here before, a generation ago.

RON KOVIC: It is in a sense a rebirth of democracy, of real democracy, a people democracy, where the leadership of this country is going to come from the people who live in this country.

BROWN: But not everyone involved in what still seems an emerging movement is famous. Most are not. They never are.

LINDA BLACK, OWNER, COLLEGE PARK BICYCLES: Bush needs to really seriously consider the views of this diverse group. That he should not just set the course and go for it without taking a lot of other people's views into consideration.

BROWN: Linda Black says she's a Republican. A Republican against the war. Against it enough to help pay for an anti-war ad in the "Wall Street Journal" this week. An ad saying the world wants Saddam Hussein disarmed, but "you must find a better way to do it."

BLACK: There are many, many people who are opposed to this war, sensible people, for legitimate reasons.

BROWN: In Chicago, still politically dominated by Democrats, but hardly know as a hotbed of radicalism, the city council yesterday overwhelmingly approved a resolution that opposes the war with Iraq, unless it poses a real and imminent threat to the United States.

RICHARD DALEY, MAYOR, CHICAGO: Yes, I'm against war -- W-A-R, war. Yes. Iraq, Korea, all of them. China, all of them. Everybody's against war. There's no one who would be for war.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One, two...

BROWN: And then there is this.

ANNOUNCER: War with Iraq. Maybe it will end quickly. Maybe not.

BROWN: In the style of that famous anti-Goldwater ad of 40 years ago, this ad now airs in about a dozen cities. It is paid for by the Web site moveon.org.

BRIAN BECKER, CO-DIRECTOR, INTERNATIONAL ACTION CENTER: The U.N. Resolution 1441, which was passed by the Security Council after weeks of intense pressure from the administration, is not about the disarmament of Iraq, it's a diplomatic fig leaf to serve for this administration and as a trigger to war.

BROWN: The protesters know about polls too. One of the most recent shows that 53 percent of Americans do not think the president has satisfactorily explained yet the need for war with Iraq.

ELI PARISSER, MOVEON.ORG: Many of them support the president. Many of them supported the campaign in Afghanistan. But they simply don't understand why it is critical that we rush to war with Iraq.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: And that is precisely the view of many of America's key allies. Some want to give the inspectors more time to do the job. Others are counseling against the use of force without another U.N. Security Council vote. Either way, President Bush's coalition of the willing looks mighty slim tonight. At the moment, just the United States and Great Britain, and even the British seem a bit wobbly. Here again is CNN's Sheila MacVicar.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MACVICAR (voice-over): One more British warship leaving port, heading for exercises in the Mediterranean. But there is no doubt in the minds of those on board the HMS Ocean, or those who waved goodbye from shore, that they may be sailing into war. And the prospect that Britain will join the U.S. in an attack on Iraq, or that a second U.N. resolution specifically authorizing the use of force, is producing some heavy political weather for the British prime minister.

(on camera): As President Bush's closest ally, Tony Blair is facing increasing opposition from members of his own party. A division so deep, that some have described it as a chasm.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The government is incapable of speaking with one voice.

MACVICAR (voice-over): This week, the prime minister went to some lengths to offer assurances.

TONY BLAIR, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: I believe it's not merely preferable to have a second U.N. resolution.. I believe that we will get one.

MACVICAR: But for many in the U.K., a second resolution would make little difference. Alan Simpson is a labor member of parliament, a member of Tony Blair's party.

ALAN SIMPSON: There's a growing majority public opinion and labor party opinion in Britain that doubts the credibility or legitimacy of war on any terms.

MACVICAR: Across Europe there is deep concern. Germany's chancellor was reelected, at least in part because he opposed war with Iraq. Relations with the U.S. damaged, he now talks about the need for a second resolution. Many here remember wars and fear new instability.

"President Bush's policy is aggressive," he says, "and this is not good for anyone." "It's not necessary to go to war," she says. "It can be solved by talking." Polls show Europeans are not convinced a war is necessary. The latest from Germany? Seventy-six percent say their government should vote against war at the United Nations. Analysts say the Bush administration has not yet persuaded them.

GARY SMITH: He has not made his case. It is not clear to people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The fear is that the what President Bush is looking for is not U.N. resolution, but a fatwah. The rights to conduct a war that he's determined to carry out anyway.

MACVICAR: A second resolution may bring the support of governments, but may not convince the people.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MACVICAR: And the latest opinion poll this time from Scotland, Aaron. A place that one would think as part of the United Kingdom might be more in support, following along with Prime Minister Tony Blair's line. That poll tonight suggesting that 64 percent of those polled opposed war without a second resolution -- Aaron.

BROWN: And did they ask the question what about the second resolution and how does that change the numbers?

MACVICAR: Not in this particular poll. At least not the data that I've seen so far. But consistently, what we are seeing across Europe is that the numbers are very high, very high indeed. In the German case, three-quarters of those polled. Without opposing war, without a second resolution, the numbers do drop. But there nowhere comes into line where governments can be terribly comfortable about this, even if they do get that second resolution.

BROWN: And just give me a quick impression. This isn't a fact question, it's an impression. Just -- you live there. You know. Do you think evidence at this point will change opinion? Or is opinion, in your impression, locked in?

MACVICAR: Opinion is not locked in. But people are deeply concerned. They are concerned about the Bush administration, they are concerned about the Bush administration's policy.

They see an administration that in this instance they think is acting in a very aggressive manner. And they don't really understand the need for this war. They look at what's happening in North Korea and they say, well hang on a second, North Korea, they've got nuclear weapons. And they actually acknowledge that they're producing nuclear weapons. And nobody's talking about going to war against them.

So what was it exactly that Iraq did? So the administration has not made its case. The British government, which is of course the closest ally to President Bush, has also not made its case. People are deeply skeptical, they are very worried about this.

BROWN: Sheila, thank you. Sheila MacVicar in London for us tonight taking a look at how Europe sees all this.

We thought this a good night to take a look at polling with the anti-war demonstrations scheduled for tomorrow, or over the weekend, at least. So we're joined tonight by our Senior Political Analyst, Bill Schneider, to talk a bit about the polling on this. Bill, good evening to you.

I want to start with this discovery yesterday of the warheads. And this is really a case where a poll question measures perception, but not reality in a sense.

WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: Well that's right. Americans, when they heard about the empty warheads, do they accept that as definitive evidence that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction? And the answer is clearly, yes. Seventy-one percent said they do.

OK. Does that mean we're ready to go to war? Maybe. But the question did not go that far. Americans have long believed Saddam Hussein has weapons of mass destruction.

There is another condition that has to be met before the public, the American public, is ready to go to war. And that's other countries have to go along with us. Our polling shows that most Americans believe the U.S. should send in troops only if the United Nations supports the invasion. And, in fact, the number of Americans who feel that way has actually been growing.

Americans want to get rid of Saddam Hussein, but they want to do it in what they regard as the right way. Which is the rest of the world has to be with us.

BROWN: And I know that we are -- we've actually been polling this -- we've been in the field on this question, the difference in the United Nations support or the lack of United Nations support. Can you put specific numbers on it yet? Are we still working the data?

SCHNEIDER: We're still working the data, but we do know that from what we've seen so far, the numbers who say there has to be U.N. support, not opposition but support, that's been growing. Only about one in four Americans say we should do it whether or not the U.N. is with us.

BROWN: OK. One of the things we wanted to look at is how public opinion today on possible war with Iraq compares to public opinion back during the first Gulf War.

SCHNEIDER: Yes. Well a majority of Americans today says it is worth going to war over the situation in Iraq. You know this is important. See that 53 percent there on the left? Now? Yes, 53? That is very rare.

It's very rare that a majority of Americans support going to war, unless the United States is attacked. Well, remember, the United States was attacked. Not by Iraq, but by a group that Americans believe has ties to Iraq. And we've endured 12 years now of Iraqi provocations.

But those other figures on the right show that in January of 1991, 12 years ago, Americans were actually closely divided over the Gulf War. They were much more reluctant. You see? Forty-six, yes; 44, no. That was 12 years ago. There was a lot more reluctance then to go to war with Kuwait because, of course, we weren't attacked.

BROWN: Yes. That's the 9/11 factor that overshadows all of this.

SCHNEIDER: That's right. 9/11 is important. Americans were attacked. And the only question that's raised, and it's an important one, is what ties does Iraq have? How much responsibility does it bear? Actually, most Americans believe Iraq does bear some responsibility for those attacks.

BROWN: In the absence of any evidence that is true?

SCHNEIDER: In the absence, because Iraq has expressed sympathy for Arab radicals.

BROWN: Bill, thank you. Bill Schneider, who has been working on polling today for us. Good to see you. Thank you.

SCHNEIDER: Good to see you -- sure.

BROWN: Baghdad next, where we simply don't know what the people are really thinking about the war or anything else. In Iraq, of course, the government manufactures public opinion by decree and then markets it wholesale. And today, business was quite good. The report from CNN's Nic Robertson.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON (voice-over): Demonstrators at a Baghdad rally destroy the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) of a U.S. president. Scenes reminiscent of the Iraqi capital on the eve of the Gulf War 12 years ago. The 2,000- strong crowd at this government-organized protest chant their support for President Saddam Hussein, just as they did 12 years ago.

In his annual address commemorating the start of the Gulf War, President Saddam Hussein told the Iraqis they had been victorious. Reminding them of Baghdad's destruction in the thirteenth century by Mongol armies, he called on Iraqis to defend their capital.

SADDAM HUSSEIN, PRESIDENT OF IRAQ (through translator): The people and the rulers of Baghdad have resolved to compel the Mongols of this age to commit suicide on its walls.

ROBERTSON: The anniversary made little difference to the U.N. weapons inspectors. Teams continued their work. This day at an ice factory and a former chemical plant. Their discovery Thursday of a dozen empty chemical warheads being played down here as officials counter criticism they are not cooperating with inspectors.

MOHAMMAD AL DOURI, IRAQI AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: (UNINTELLIGIBLE). So I don't think we can give more than we gave already.

ROBERTSON: In continuing efforts to build regional support, (UNINTELLIGIBLE), a cousin of the Iraqi president, and one of his most trusted officials, left for Syria and other Arab countries, dismissing speculation that Saddam might go into exile.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): These are ridiculous conclusions, nonsense. It's part of a psychological war technique.

ROBERTSON: Closer to home in Baghdad, a small sign of some improving diplomatic relations. Iraqi and Russian officials signing an oil deal. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) the cancellation last year of a massive Russian oil project.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON: Now it's just that sort of support that Iraqi officials hope they can build on to deter any war, Aaron. However, the message this day, very clear: if that support isn't forthcoming, then they're willing to go to war and fight to the end -- Aaron.

BROWN: Well, that's what they said 12 years ago, too, I guess. Was there any discussion today about the find yesterday, the inspectors discovering these warheads and what they may or may not mean?

ROBERTSON: Well, it has been played down here. Iraqi officials were very quick to try to put it into their context, saying it was a storm (ph) in a tea cup, the warheads had been in boxes, they'd been overlooked, they weren't even dangerous. And that was a message again on Friday.

(UNINTELLIGIBLE), before he left for Syria, saying very much the same thing. And interestingly, Aaron, his quotes actually running on Iraqi television here. It's not often that something quite so contentious is put in the public domain quite so quickly here.

BROWN: Nic, thank you. Nic Robertson, who is back in Baghdad these days. Thank you.

This weekend, along with all the news of the day on Iraq, the anti-war protests that are going along in the country. The network devoting a full hour to the subject of a possible war, "Showdown Iraq, War Clouds." The program looks at a whole host of issues. The chances for diplomacy, and of course what happens if diplomacy does not work.

The shape a war might take, the risks involved on all sides. New challenges for American fighting men and women if there is in fact a second Gulf War. CNN 8:00 and again at 11:00 PM Eastern Time on Sunday.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT: from New York, new developments in the case of the disappearance of Laci Peterson. We'll get to that. And in the second half-hour, we'll meet a mother who trusted the state of New Jersey to take care of her child. From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: The national roundup tonight begins with a chilling piece of video. It comes from the sentencing proceedings for the shoe bomber, Richard Reid. Prosecutors released the tape today, which apparently was made to answer the question, could the bomb in Reid's shoe bring down an airliner?

The tape pretty much says yes. Although we don't know exactly how this experiment was done, we can tell you -- oh my -- that the sentencing for Mr. Reid is scheduled for the end of the month. He pled guilty in the case.

Tom Ridge cleared the first hurdle to becoming the country's first secretary of homeland secretary. The Senate committee approved his nomination today. No surprise. The full Senate expected to weigh in on Tuesday.

Another 10,000 sailors and Marines shipped out for the Gulf today. The sailors came from San Diego, the Marines from Camp Pendleton. 67,000 troops are now on their way or about to leave for the Gulf in just the next few days. The program has not done more than a few small updates on the case of Laci Peterson. The story took a turn today that seems to warrant a bit more than that. We'll admit that we were struck by a date today, February 10. That's the date that Ms. Peterson, who's been missing since Christmas Eve, is due to give birth to a baby boy. Now that boy's father, Laci's husband, is facing a lot more scrutiny from the police and from the people who have stood by him since his wife disappeared.

Here's CNN's Rusty Dornin.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It wasn't long after Laci Peterson disappeared that there were questions about husband Scott. He said he went fishing the day his wife vanished, but police refuse to eliminate him as a suspect. Now sources close to the family say Modesto police showed them pictures of Scott Peterson with another woman with whom he was allegedly having an affair. They also told the family he took out a $250,000 life insurance policy on his wife.

KIM PETERSON, FAMILY SPOKESPERSON: Laci's stepfather asked Scott if he had a girlfriend. Scott told him no, and Ron believed him. Now, however, they believe that he has lied to them about this and possibly other things as well.

DORNIN: "The Modesto Bee" reported that police told the family the discovery was why they felt Scott Peterson might be involved in his wife's disappearance. In the meantime, Scott Peterson had planned to open another volunteer center for his wife in Los Angeles over the weekend. Those plans have been canceled.

And in a phone interview with affiliate KTVU, Peterson said he's angry over "The Bee's" reporting and plans to take matters into his own hands.

SCOTT PETERSON, LACI PETERSON's HUSBAND: Well, it's a bunch of lies in the article. So what are you going to do?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So what's your plan now?

PETERSON: I'm going to come back to Modesto and open up my own volunteer center and find my wife and my kid.

DORNIN: When the headlines hit, the volunteer center in Modesto shut down. Modesto police chaplain Don Crooker (ph) was there every day and says many like him felt betrayed.

DON CROOKER, MODESTO POLICE CHAPLAIN: Was devastated. Unbelievable. And believe me, chaplains cry.

DORNIN: Modesto police have no official comment on the state of the investigation. From the beginning, Laci Peterson's family stood behind her husband, always choosing to talk about the good times. SHARON ROCA, LACI PETERSON'S MOTHER: They were always happy together. I've never heard either of them say anything against the other. I've never heard them argue or even heard about an argument. They were a happy, happy couple.

DORNIN: Trust based on a belief that is now eroding. Rusty Dornin, CNN, Modesto, California.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Still ahead on NEWSNIGHT for this Friday night, papal advice for politicians. But how will it play in America? And "Segment 7" later rolls into town to answer the question, just where did the term smoking gun come from?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: We often hear about the struggle to separate church and state in places like schools or libraries. But we can imagine some of the most emotional debates go on in a very different place. In the heart of a politician.

Politicians are forced to make decisions for many people of many faiths. Decisions that might sometimes go against beliefs they cherish. Keeping the interests of fair leadership and faith apart must be very hard for true believers sometimes. And for Catholic politicians, the Vatican is now trying to make it even harder.

Here's CNN's Alessio Vinci.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALESSIO VINCI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was Pope John Paul II's first direct reference to the crisis in Iraq since the United States threatened military action to disarm Saddam Hussein. And the continuation of what has been a consistent Vatican anti-war line on the Iraqi issue.

Addressing foreign diplomats at the holy sea, the pope, while not mentioning the United States by name, said war was not always inevitable. "War is never just another means that one can choose to employ for settling differences between nations," the pope told ambassadors, speaking in French. Adding, the U.N. charter and international law itself remind us that war cannot be decided upon even when it is a matter of ensuring common good. Except, he said, as the very last option.

Equally significant, other Vatican officials in recent interviews have been unusually blunt in criticizing U.S. foreign policy in Iraq, saying it was "unacceptable for the U.S. to play the role of universal policeman." Adding that a preventive war would have no moral or legal justification.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They have been connecting the dots, if you will, and making it very clear that the pope's sort of universal appeal for peace encompasses, very specifically, an appeal to the U.S. to find a nonviolent solution in Iraq.

VINCI: But will the pope's call for peace make any difference? Judging from recent history, not much. The pope was a strong opponent of the Persian Gulf War in 1991. It happened anyway. And the pope also opposed the NATO bombing campaign over Yugoslavia in 1999.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On the other hand, there are historical examples where papal interventions did work. A fairly well-known case is in the Cuban Missile Crisis. John XXIII sent simultaneous messages to Kennedy and Khrushchev. Both of them later acknowledged that played a significant role in de-escalating the crisis.

We also know that, in 1979, Chile and Argentina were poised to go to war with one another over possession of the Beagle Islands. John Paul demanded that they come to the negotiating table. And they did. And war was averted. So, it can work. It doesn't always work.

VINCI: (on camera): Few here believe this pope could actually stop military action against Iraq, should President Bush decide to go to war. As the U.S. ambassador to the Holy See put it in a recent interview, the U.S. would prefer the pope's support, but also accepted the fact that the U.S. and the Vatican won't always see eye to eye.

Alessio Vinci, CNN, Rome.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: I'm joined from Boston to talk about religion and politics, particularly where Catholics are concerned, by Ray Flynn, a former mayor of that city, U.S. ambassador to the Vatican as well. We're always glad to see him.

RAY FLYNN, FORMER AMBASSADOR TO THE VATICAN: Good evening, Aaron.

BROWN: Ambassador Flynn, good to have you with us.

Context, it seems to me, is helpful here. In 1960, the question of Catholicism in American politics was enormous. President Kennedy, the first successful Catholic candidate, and all of that, went to Houston to essentially proclaim he would not -- this was a hugely famous speech at the time -- that he would not essentially be the voice of the Vatican in America. A lot of things have changed since then for politicians, right?

FLYNN: Well, there's no question. I don't think anybody really wants Catholic politicians to take their orders from the Vatican.

But I don't think American Catholic politicians ought to forget the values of their religion as well. This is not about politics. This is about the teaching of Jesus Christ, rooted in scripture, rooted in tradition. And just because you're elected president or the United States senator, that doesn't mean that you forget what your values are and what you really believe in.

I just think that politicians who make the judgments on the basis of what is politically popular or what public opinion polls say, I just think that they're very shallow. And, really, those aren't the kind of people that I want to see in office.

BROWN: Listen, to me, the interesting question, or one of the interesting questions, here is, in a sense, what do we want from our elected officials? Do we want them to lead, to vote their conscience, to do what they think is best? Or do we want them to represent what we want? Those are not necessarily the same.

FLYNN: No.

What do we want? Who are we? Are we the public opinion, which changes from election to election? The Catholic Church, as I say, Aaron, is rooted in history and tradition and the teachings of Jesus Christ. It's not a political party that changes its position every election. I think that it is so very, very appropriate.

That's why I respect John Paul II. And that's why I love the Catholic faith, because of the fact that they are particularly focused on issues and they don't change, whether it's the death penalty, whether it's abortion, whether it's war, whether it's immigrant, whether it's poor. If you think about some of those issues that I just mentioned, Aaron, say, for example, immigrants, the war, just-war theory, and so forth, the church doesn't change its position.

Now, you tell me a politician, however, that, because, in light of public opinion, hasn't changed their position on a number of these issues. So, I think it's a very appropriate role for the holy father to be a moral voice that, in this society, in this secular society, you probably wouldn't hear that voice coming anywhere else except from religious leaders like John Paul II. And I welcome that. I think it really contributes something to a very healthy and important debate.

While they're making their political decision, I see nothing wrong with them hearing a moral aspect of the issue as well.

BROWN: We're just down to a minute here. And I hope this doesn't come too far from right field. Do you think the scandals that -- the priest scandals that have so troubled all of us, and particularly Catholics, and particularly in your city, affect Catholic politicians and their relationship to the church and what Catholics expect of politicians relative to some of these issues?

FLYNN: That's a fair question.

And I think a number of politicians will use the situation, the clergy sexual abuse scandal, as an opportunity for them to walk away from the traditions and the values and the teachings of Jesus Christ and basically say, well, who's going to listen to the holy father? Who's going to listen to the Catholic Church, anyway? The church is vulnerable. There's no question about that. That's unfortunate.

But, nevertheless, I think that society at large has to hear the voice of religious leaders. I see this as a very important component of any major political debate in this world today, particularly on the issue of war and the death penalty and abortion and all these other issues, to hear the moral component of the issue as well. And then the politicians are going to go out and make the decision, hopefully, that they feel is in the best interests, not only of their conscience, but also of their constituents and society at large, not just their narrow constituency.

BROWN: Ambassador Lynn, it's good to talk to you, always. And it's nice to actually talk to once where we didn't spend our whole time talking about the abuse scandal.

FLYNN: Yes.

BROWN: Thank you, sir, very much.

FLYNN: Thank you.

BROWN: Thank you, Ambassador Ray Flynn.

A little bit past half past the hour at this point, 36 minutes past the hour.

Plenty to go on NEWSNIGHT for a Friday, beginning with the story of a mother who trusted the state of New Jersey to watch her child, a child who is now dead.

And later, in segment seven, what's all this talk about smoking guns anyway?

Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: And next on NEWSNIGHT: the story of another failure of the foster care system in the state of New Jersey.

A short break and we're right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: We're troubled -- OK, we're a little more hot-tempered than that, but we'll use troubled for now -- by a scolding in one of the "New York Times"'s columns this week about the case of little boys in Newark, New Jersey.

CNN has moved on, it said. The writer hasn't been watching, because this program has not moved on, not yet. The story of abuse is so terrible and what it says about New Jersey's child welfare system is too important for us to walk away from.

So tonight: the case of a different child who was killed back in 1998 while under the agency's watch, who left behind a family that is brokenhearted and is demanding answers.

Once again for us, here's CNN's Jamie Colby.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COLBY (voice-over): Elena Colon trusted the system.

ELENA COLON, MOTHER: They told me, if you go to a program and you do what you've got to do, you'll get your daughter back.

COLBY: She voluntarily placed her newborn with New Jersey's Division of Youth and Family Services, or DYFS, while completing a three-month substance abuse program.

COLON: And I did everything they told me to do.

COLBY: But just weeks before she was to be reunited with her daughter, Sky, she got an unexpected visit from her case worker.

COLON: She told me, you've got to go to the hospital. And I said, why? She said, something happened to Sky. She is in the hospital.

COLBY: Sky's foster mother hired a family friend, Rosa Tavarez, to look after the baby while attending night school, an arrangement Elena's attorney said DYFS approved.

STEPHAN MASHEL, ATTORNEY FOR COLON: They knew who the babysitter was. They had the babysitter sign various forms, did a fingerprint check, criminal check, and interfaced with this babysitter.

COLBY: At the hospital, doctors told Elena Sky had been so severely shaken, she'd suffered a traumatic brain injury.

COLON: How could got a child, being three months -- could bother a person so much?

COLBY: For two days, Elena held her lifeless baby.

COLON: The doctors told me she had a broken neck, ribs, and her arm, and she damage to her head, to her brain.

COLBY: Until doctors took the little girl off life support.

Tavarez pled guilty to manslaughter and is serving four years in a New Jersey prison.

(on camera): Elena and the baby's father are suing DYFS, their case worker, the foster mother, and the woman who killed Sky. DYFS declined to comment on the case. In the lawsuit, Elena alleges that, during a supervised visit, she told her case worker she suspected abuse.

COLON: I changed her Pamper and I turned her around. And she had a big black-and-blue on the back. And I called quickly. And I said, what's this? She was like, I don't know, but I'll tell my supervisor, so we could check into it.

COLBY (voice-over): Elena says her case worker claimed it was just a diaper rash. DYFS, in its response to Elena's lawsuit, denies allegations of abuse. The case worker and the foster mother are also fighting the case, but declined to comment. COLON: They didn't believe me. I was a person doing bad at that time. Why should we believe her? I guess.

MASHEL: If the child had remained with her, the child would be alive today. There's no doubt about that. My client's raised five other children. But she did what the state said was best. And she lost her child. And she'll take that to her grave.

COLON: The next time that somebody tells them something, they should listen to them, because they didn't listen to me.

COLBY: If only DYFS had listened, Elena says, she'd be holding her daughter today.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLBY: Elena Colon's case is scheduled to go to trial in March. Now New Jersey's embattled child welfare agency not only has to answer to an angry governor, but to the court as well -- Aaron.

BROWN: Jamie, thank you. That's a tough one.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, on yet another chilly Friday night in New York: Bring your appetite and, please, bring your wallet. Chef Daniel Boulud is here to make a $50 hamburger. He takes American Express, no credit limit.

And we'll wind up tonight, in Segment 7, with the rhetorical question: Just where does the term smoking gun come from?

This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Up next on NEWSNIGHT, the man behind the $50 burger meets the man who ate one. That would be me.

This is NEWSNIGHT. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Only in New York, it seems, could you face a tradeoff like this: Pay your monthly cable bill or pay for a burger for lunch.

As you probably guessed, this is not your father's burger. This is the latest in our super-priced burger series. What is with us? Last week, it was the $41 burger. We've upped the ante tonight. It's $50. I had one today. If you want to know the truth, it's quite busy. It's more busy than burger. It's got black truffles, with braised short ribs. And what would a burger be without some foie gras as well? You do that at home, don't you?

It will make you long for those innocent days of two all-beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese,pickles, onions, on a sesame seed bun. You didn't think I was going to be able to do that, did you? Or maybe not. It was wonderful. It's the creation of Daniel Boulud, who owns several forget-about-getting-a-table restaurants here in New York. And he joins us now. And he's truly one of the great chefs who works in America these days.

It's nice to meet you, finally.

DANIEL BOULUD, CREATOR, THE $50 DB BURGER: Thank you very much, Aaron.

BROWN: Take a shot of the burger here quickly. You've got to explain this. It's like a hamburger parfait, because there's so much going on.

BOULUD: I think this is the Taj Mahal of burgers, in a way.

There's multiple layers. We start with a Parmesan bun with onion seed, homemade.

BROWN: I need to turn it this way, so they can shoot it.

BOULUD: So, that's the top.

BROWN: There you go.

BOULUD: And then after, we have fresh and baked tomato, also as well in the oven. And layers of truffle between a 10-ounce burger, where, inside, it's filled with braised short ribs, cooked for hours in red wine.

BROWN: That's short the rib in there. And that's the foie gras.

BOULUD: Yes. And mixed with foie gras in the center and truffle. So, the idea is that this burger, normally at DB Bistro Moderne is $29. But during the fresh truffle season, I have wonderful fresh black truffle here. During the fresh black truffle season, I boosted my burger -- because the burger is made to go very well with truffle, with the meat, and all that.

BROWN: Of course.

BOULUD: So the truffle, of course, is $500 a pound. So, adding the truffle into the burger, it's a little bit of a bonus.

BROWN: It's just a wonderful smell, the truffle.

BOULUD: It's wonderful. It's very earthy. It's very unique. And I think it's quite a unique burger.

BROWN: All right, a couple of quick questions. Do you think you could sell it in Omaha?

BOULUD: In Omaha?

BROWN: In Omaha, Nebraska?

BOULUD: No.

BROWN: It's a New York kind of deal, isn't it?

BOULUD: It's a New York thing. And, also, I'm a French chef.

BROWN: No.

(LAUGHTER)

BOULUD: I am very proud to show to the French that a burger can be the greatest thing on Earth.

BROWN: So, this is a French burger?

BOULUD: American.

BROWN: French-American burger?

BOULUD: Yes. It's everything about the American burger and everything about the French, flavor, taste, deep flavor, and layers of texture and flavor. And, also, this is a burger meant for grownups.

BROWN: Yes. Well, so few kids get $50 for allowance.

BOULUD: Exactly. Plus, it's really a burger that goes very well with red wine as well.

BROWN: One serious technical question about it. The ground beef is very -- pretty low-fat ground beef?

BOULUD: Exactly. I keep the fat a little bit less in order to have the braised short ribs.

BROWN: That was, honestly, my one quibble with it today.

BOULUD: You wanted more fat?

BROWN: A little more fat, yes.

BOULUD: OK. I'll make sure to check on that.

BROWN: I'm sure you can.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: No, that's not the point. The point is, why -- as I recall, the Kobe beef that we did last night is of much higher fat content.

BOULUD: It's much higher. It might be 35, 40 percent, I don't know exactly the content, but it's much higher fat. But this burger, it takes a great chef to build a burger like this.

BROWN: Yes, it does.

BOULUD: Grinding a patty and patting on the grill and put it between two buns don't take much of a great chef. But here, I'm very proud to have created a burger with beyond just the flavor of a burger. Once you have it, you never forget.

BROWN: Seriously, do you think someone who's a reasonably good cook could whip this up at home?

BOULUD: Yes. You have start by braise the short ribs.

BROWN: You have to commit a whole day to this.

BOULUD: Basically, you start two days ahead.

BROWN: Two days?

BOULUD: Yes, it's easier.

BROWN: Well, I guess we could all do that.

How many do you sell a day? Do you know?

BOULUD: Well, today, we sold about -- at the restaurant at lunch, we sell about 100 burgers a day. And the DB burger royale -- which we call it royale because -- and this is only during the truffle season until March. And we sold about 40 percent today. So that was amazing. I was very surprised. So, I think people love it.

BROWN: Is that right; 40 percent of the people who were in the restaurant today bought this burger?

BOULUD: Yes.

BROWN: And we paid for the burger, you know. We didn't take a freebie.

BOULUD: I know. But the thing is, also, doing fresh white truffle, white truffles is two times to three times more expensive than black. And people will shave white truffle, plain risotto, and pay $100 for it. So, I feel that my burger is a bargain at $50.

BROWN: It's the most wonderful taste.

BOULUD: Thank you, Aaron.

BROWN: It was nice to meet you.

BOULUD: Thank you.

BROWN: A wonderful chef.

BOULUD: A pleasure.

BROWN: Thank you. We have enjoyed your food. And we enjoyed the burger today.

BOULUD: Thank you.

BROWN: Segment seven and smoking gun.

A short break. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Finally from us tonight, we know, we know. There's plenty enough to worry about in the world without worrying about a couple of expressions we can't seem to get through the day without hearing, or, in my case, at least, without having to say. But you know how life is. Sometimes, the little things force themselves in the front part of your brain and just won't dislodge until you've mulled them over and over.

So, indulge me again for a moment.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's a smoking gun.

DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That elusive smoking gun.

SCOTT RITTER, FORMER U.N. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: Smoking gun.

BROWN (voice-over): That's the first expression, smoking gun. We all know what it means. It means positive, visible, tangible proof. It's what the weapons inspectors are looking for in Iraq, what the administration is urged to deliver, if it has such a thing, what reporters and many others would like to see.

But it's a really odd expression, we think, under the circumstances. It comes from the Wild West, I suppose, or police dramas, and conjures up a Desperado standing over a dead body, unable to deny or explain away his guilt, because the revolver in his hand is still smoking. When you think about what's being talked about in Iraq, though, germs and poisons and explosives designed to kill thousands or tens of thousands of people, smoking gun seems almost laughably inadequate. We really need something else, something befitting the gravity of what's been sought. We're open to suggestions.

And then there's the second expression, the one the government has taken to using when it issues a new terrorism alert: credible evidence. Now, here's a question. If it isn't credible, is it evidence?

These are small things only if you think clarity is a small thing. And we don't.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Good to have you with us this week.

On Monday, the Martin Luther King holiday here in the country, we will again, in the NEWSNIGHT tradition, play the entire "I Have a Dream" speech. If you haven't heard it, it's terrific. If you have, you'll enjoy it again. Join us.

Good night for all of us at NEWSNIGHT.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





Peterson's Husband Facing More Scrutiny>