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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown
Tony Blair Losing Political Support For War Against Iraq; Strong Earthquake Hits Mexico
Aired January 21, 2003 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, HOST: Good evening again, everyone. I miss Newt Gingrich. That guy was on to something. When Mr. Gingrich led the Republicans to control the House in '94, one of the first things he did was change some rules around the old place.
No longer could your elected representative take free meals from lobbyists. No longer could they take a sweet little golf vacation paid for by the businesses or the unions who may benefit from their work. No more Redskins tickets, things like that.
Mr. Gingrich thought that stuff, at the very least, looked really, really bad. Now, of course, he was trying to make a political point, too, that those were the Democratic rules, and that the new guys would come in and do it clean and do it right. And they did sort of for a while.
But now those anti-gift rules are a thing of the past. The Republican majority in the House has unreformed the House. Now if the House is working late and the people get hungry, lobbyists can buy dinner for everyone. Want a free trip to a swanky golf resort?
It's allowed again, as long as it's a charity event. No matter if the money to pay the freight came from an industry or union with business before the House. You still get on that plane. After all, it gets cold in D.C. in the winter.
The leadership, the Republican leadership in the House these days says this is not a problem. No member's vote can be bought with a pizza or a trip to Pebble Beach. Maybe yes. Maybe no. But as Mr. Gingrich said back then, it looks bad, real bad, and he was right.
So we miss him. He was on to something, where confidence in government was concerned, that his followers seemed to have forgotten.
On to the news of the day. We begin "The Whip" with Iraq and the prospect for war. Richard Roth has just returned from his travels with the chief U.N. weapons inspector. So Richard, start us off with a headline, please.
RICHARD ROTH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Blix is back. And soon the Security Council will have him. He says he got more documents from Iraq, but not enough to sing Baghdad's praises to the Security Council.
BROWN: Richard, thanks to you. Back to you at the top tonight.
On to the White House, where the administration is choosing its words carefully. They're strong words. Suzanne Malveaux has the latest on what's being said about Iraq from the White House -- the headline.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well today, from the president on down, the White House acknowledging that it still has to do a better job at making the case against Saddam Hussein. Not only to win over the American people, but also U.S. allies. And today the Bush administration began that public relations blitz in earnest.
BROWN: Suzanne, thank you.
And to Florida next and the war on terror. A story that is still developing. Susan Candiotti has that. So Susan, tell us what you can.
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hello Aaron. FBI agents today using a metal detector and shovels, digging for secret evidence today as a house in Palm Beach County, Florida. We're told it's a case related to terrorism. And we'll have more for you coming up.
BROWN: Susan, thank you. Back to you and the rest shortly.
Also coming up tonight, one sure way to start a fight on a New York subway. Say you love Al Sharpton, or say you hate Al Sharpton. And now one of the most polarizing figures in the politics of race is running for president, and not Manhattan borough president either. Candy Crowley tonight on the Sharpton candidacy.
And the fight over the confederate flag. Is it nothing more than a celebration of slavery? We'll look at two battles going on in Georgia over what's flying over the state capital and over what some kids have decided to wear to school.
And "Segment 7" tonight, nirvana for classic car fans from around the globe. The auction at Barrett-Jackson. All of that to come in the hour ahead.
We begin with a story that is breaking late this evening. Word of a strong earthquake in Mexico. An earthquake measuring 6.6 on the Richter stale is being felt in Mexico City tonight. It's still unclear how much damage has been caused. The epicenter is in the Pacific state of Colima, about 300 miles from Mexico City.
There are reports of power outages in large parts of Mexico City. Some witnesses say the quake itself lasted more than 20 seconds. That's a long time if you've ever been through one of those. The "Mexican Daily Universal" (ph) says that some buildings have been evacuated, including its own building.
That's what we know at this point. That's where the quake was centered. But again, this was felt all the way to Mexico City. As we get more information, we will update, of course.
Now on to Iraq. Today the administration began closing arguments in the case for war, with the rest of the world seeming to believe the opening statements have yet to begin. In a moment, we'll explore the president's closing argument. We begin tonight, though, with Hans Blix' opening statement, which will be the basis of the coming debate at the United Nations next week. Here again, CNN's Richard Roth.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROTH (voice-over): Hans Blix spent much of his flight home writing notes in English and Swedish on his trip to Baghdad. He will use these thoughts to go before the Security Council Monday in remarks that could shape world opinion on Iraq. Despite pressure from all sides, upon arrival Blix said at the Council he'd call them as he sees them, following two days of disarmament talks with senior Iraqi officials.
HANS BLIX, CHIEF U.N. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: Read them report. That is, tell them like it is, as you say in the U.S.
ROTH: Washington is saying that President Saddam Hussein is running out of time, but how much time Blix and his inspectors will be given by the Security Council is a simmering dispute. In Athens, his final stop, Blix indicated as long as Baghdad isn't coming clean, then the inspectors should receive more time to work.
BLIX: If they do not have the cooperation, if you have troubles with the inspections and you see obstruction, and you do not manage to solve any of the problems of the past, well, then, it could go off.
ROTH: Blix will report that Iraq has refused to close gaps in accounting for weapons of mass destruction. He is also expected to express concern after inspectors found 3,000 pages of nuclear documents in the home of an Iraqi scientist.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROTH: Blix doesn't even call the 10-point plan reached over the weekend an agreement with Iraq. He said on the plane to me that, at one point, Iraq almost abandoned the 10-point plan and there would be no formal agreement on anything -- Aaron.
BROWN: Would it surprise you -- let's try it this way. Would it surprise you if he, a week from yesterday, told the Security Council, this is pointless. These inspections are pointless. Do what year going to do?
ROTH: That will not happen. That would be a huge shock for Hans Blix. He wants to continue working. He thinks he's getting entrenched with more and more inspectors. He thinks almost the best is yet to come. That there'll be -- if he gets more time, they can find more.
But this is the problem: the more Iraq delays or obstructs in going into special places, the more he wants to keep working. And that's not something Washington wants.
BROWN: The obstructions or the delays have been -- this is a question -- more of the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) variety. That is to say, they are not especially helpful, but they're not also sending armed guards in front of these palaces, saying you can't come in.
ROTH: I think two months ago people were saying if Iraq does not comply with that resolution in any way, that was it. The last chance. Well it seems now that last chance is now being given another last chance.
Also, Iraq gave Blix conditions for U-2 overflights. I don't know how that will play in the U.S. And also, Iraqi scientists will be "encouraged" to conduct private interviews. That doesn't exactly sound like a demand or the government saying, talk to them. So there's still a lot of room to maneuver here.
BROWN: Well the clock is ticking. And it's got less than a week to go. We'll see what happens next week. Thank you, Richard. Richard Roth just back.
It's likely the administration knows how it will play the end game. A week from tonight the president delivers his State of the Union speech. Iraq clearly will be a major part of that. The inspector's report will be delivered the day before, and then the battle is likely to begin.
It may turn out the inspectors will make a strong case that Iraq never really is going to cooperate, which would make the Security Council's move easy. But as Richard indicated, it seems more likely that it won't be that clear-cut, making the president's job that much tougher. Tougher at home and a lot tougher abroad.
Back to CNN's Suzanne Malveaux with the White House side of the story -- Suzanne.
MALVEAUX: Well Aaron, the White House acknowledges from the president on down that it really needs to do a better job in convincing the American people, as well as U.S. allies, in making its case against Saddam Hussein. We heard from a number of players today, including the president, saying that Saddam Hussein has not complied with this U.N. Security Council resolution to disarm. That there are no signs that he is going to do this in the future. And that international pressure is not working.
The Bush administration establishing a new office of global communications. Releasing a 32-page document apparatus of lies talking about the dozen or so years Saddam Hussein has not complied. The president earlier today coming out after a meeting with his economist taking issue with what other U.N. Security Council members have said, suggesting that Saddam Hussein can actually be contained. But the president today, as well as other officials, saying that history proves that that just isn't so.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He's not disarming. As a matter of fact, it appears to be a rerun of a bad movie. He's delaying, he's deceiving, he's asking for time. He's playing hide and seek with inspectors.
One thing is for certain, he's not disarming. And so the United States of America, in the name of peace, will continue to insist he does disarm. And we will keep the pressure on Saddam Hussein.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICHARD ARMITAGE, DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE: Some people may say there is no smoking gun. But there's nothing but smoke.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: And the other part of the White House strategy is really to argue that, yes, the administration would like the support of the U.N. Security Council, but it is willing to go it alone with its own allies and friends, if necessary. And as you can imagine, Aaron, of course, you see the obvious military buildup. That a sign to Saddam Hussein that the administration is willing and capable to use military force if necessary -- Aaron.
BROWN: This acknowledgement that the case has not yet been made, either at home or abroad, any indication the administration will trot out some of the information it says it has, which proves the point?
MALVEAUX: The administration says that it's going to continue to give this kind of intelligence over to the inspectors. But also, you definitely get the sense from insiders here that they've already made their case. That they already have the evidence that's necessary. And really short of Saddam Hussein stepping down or perhaps being overthrown or, really, changing his stripes and coming forward with a complete declaration, saying here are the weapons that I've been hiding, it seems as if the administration is already making its case that he has not complied. And they do not believe that he is going to do so.
BROWN: Suzanne, thank you. It will be an interesting week coming up there as well at the White House. Thank you.
On to the military buildup, which does go on. The Pentagon today ordered two more aircraft carriers into the region. Two more armadas, really, because carriers travel with a fleet of cruisers and destroyers and other ships to service and protect them. Two more carriers are standing by.
That's half the U.S. Navy, more or less, on its way or waiting to join a growing chunk of the Army, Air Force and Marines. A lot of tearful good-byes all around. Here's CNN's Jamie McIntyre.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The USS Abraham Lincoln was scheduled to arrive home in Everett, Washington yesterday. Instead, it was ordered from Australia back to the Persian Gulf to wait for possible war. The crew has seen it coming for months, especially since the Lincoln is the only U.S. carrier armed with the Navy's newest most capable fighter plane, the F-18 super hornet.
CMDR. JEFF PENFIELD, SUPER HORNET SQUADRON: I think this particular squadron, with these brand new airplanes, given the capability that it has, if and when something occurs, we're going to be leading from the front. And there is no doubt that we're ready.
MCINTYRE: The latest deployment orders issued late last week include a second carrier, the USS Theodore Roosevelt, now exercising near Puerto Rico, as well as nearly 20 additional cruise missile- firing escort ships and submarines. All told, about 16,000 sailors. That will bring to four the number of U.S. carrier battle groups in the Gulf region by next month to ratchet up the pressure on Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein.
The pace of the deployments indicates Iraq may have more time, but not much. Deployment orders for about 17,500 soldiers from the Army's fourth infantry division from Fort Hood, Texas and Fort Carson, Colorado put most soldiers on a four-day alert, while their equipment is shipped to the region on ships over the next few weeks. And those troops don't know exactly where they're going. Sources say the Pentagon would lined to send them to Turkey, but there's no agreement yet with the government, which faces significant opposition to war from its citizens.
FAROUK LOGOGLU, TURKISH AMBASSADOR TO THE U.S.: They have to give full satisfaction, full cooperation to the inspections process in order to overt the war.
MCINTYRE: But that's not much comfort to Iraq, which continues to complain the U.S. is planning to attack no matter what.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Iraq accepted the inspectors and complied with Resolution 1441, but still the drums of war are beating.
MCINTYRE (on camera): By this time next month, the 65,000 or so U.S. troops in the Gulf region will have swollen to more than 150,000, along with about 30,000 British troops. Deployment orders to date cover about 80,000 U.S. troops, but the vast majority of those don't leave for the region for another couple of weeks. Jamie McIntyre, CNN, the Pentagon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Those 30,000 British soldiers represent about a quarter of the Royal Army's manpower. Beyond the sheer numbers, their deployment also signals just how far Britain's prime minister is prepared to go for a friend in need, even at a political cost to himself. And the political cost could be quite high. Tony Blair is taking shots from all sides: the opposition, and even his own party. Here's CNN's Walter Rodgers.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Welcome again, prime minister, to the second...
WALTER RODGERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The look on the British prime minister's face confirmed Tony Blair knows the tide of political support for war against Saddam Hussein is running against him.
TONY BLAIR, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Most people in this country are really worried because they think that you may go to war without an explicit U.N. resolution.
RODGERS: Blair again warned senior parliamentarians Iraq is trying to reconstitute its nuclear weapons program.
BLAIR: This is a serious issue. If we don't deal with it now and take a stand on it now, and it's come to a focal point around Iraq, then is North Korea going to believe us if we say this is what you must do to come into line in the international community?
RODGERS: Monday, Blair committed one quarter of all British armed forces to a possible war with Iraq. But for many in Britain, the issue is not Iraq. It is the United states.
JOHN WILLIAMS, PARLIAMENT MEMBER: Isn't it important for the long term that the Americans show as early as possible an absolute commitment to international law?
BLAIR: I think the worst thing that could happen -- I really believe this -- is that the world divides out into the pro-American and the anti-American forces.
RODGERS: Blair had to repeatedly assure parliament "America is a force for good in the world." An increasing number in his own party now disagree.
CHRIS MULLIN, PARLIAMENT MEMBER: At the end of the day, we don't have that much influence on them. In the end, they behave as they have always done. There's a fundamental gap between many of their values and those of Europe's.
BLAIR: We basically stand for the same values: liberty, tolerance, democracy. In the fight against international terrorism, we're all on the same side. Even in relation to tricky issues and difficult issues like Iraq.
RODGERS : Yet a new opinion poll now shows 77 percent of Britains oppose war with Iraq without United Nations backing. Sixty-eight percent of all Britains disapprove of U.S. President George W. Bush's policy on Iraq. (on camera): Tony Blair flies to Washington later this month to confer with President Bush about Iraq. But Blair has now been warned in parliament if he goes to war without United Nations' approval it will "split this country right down the middle."
(voice-over): It now appears it is an antiwar movement, not support for Tony Blair that is gaining momentum here. And if President Bush believes he has British public support, he is flat wrong. Walter Rodgers, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Well, as NEWSNIGHT continues on this Tuesday night, the 21st of January, we'll have the latest on this earthquake. More than seven points on the Richter scale in Mexico. We'll talk to the director of the Mexican Emergency Management Agency in a moment.
We'll also take you to a quiet Florida neighborhood where the FBI showed up today. That and more as we continue from New York.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: We have a bit more now on the breaking story we mentioned at the top of the program tonight. A strong earthquake that has hit in Mexico. An earthquake measuring 7.6 on the Richter scale, felt this evening all the way in Mexico City. It was centered in the Pacific state of Colima, about 300 miles from Mexico City.
We're trying to assess just what the damage the quake has caused. On the phone to help us in that regard is the director of the Emergency Management Agency for Mexico, Carlos Gelista. Mr. Gelista, do you know yet how bad the damage is close to where the quake was centered?
CARLOS GELISTA, DIRECTOR OF EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT: Well, as a matter of fact, at this moment we are still establishing periodically contacts with the civil (ph) protection units over there in the state of Colima and in (UNINTELLIGIBLE), which are neighboring states to Colima. Very near the epicenter of the earthquake.
And at this time, they are telling us that only minor incidents were registered during this earthquake. Of course, this is very preliminary information, since the units, the civil (ph) protection units are going all around the state to check if there are some more damages to report. But for the time being, only a bridge over in the state of (UNINTELLIGIBLE) suffered some damages.
Already the police and civil protection people are over there at the place. And some parts of some houses over there in those states, but no victims are reported at this time.
BROWN: Now you're 300 miles away in Mexico City. Tell me what you felt.
GELISTA: Well it was a very, very strong earthquake, since we more or less know what they feel like. We knew from the beginning it was a strong earthquake, wherever the epicenter was going to be located. And as you were saying, it was located about 300 kilometers west of Mexico City, but still, it was a very, very strong earthquake.
Here in Mexico City there were some blackouts in parts of the city, as it usually happens when there is an earthquake. But the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) here of Mexico City have reported only minor damages. Also, no victims at all.
BROWN: Do you know, sir, if the epicenter was in the ocean or on land?
GELISTA: It was in the ocean.
BROWN: Do you have concerns of tidal waves, that sort of thing, as aftershocks begin?
GELISTA: Aftershocks, of course, we expect some aftershocks to happen, as it usually happens after big earthquakes like this one. Of course, the aftershocks usually are of a minor degree of the main earthquake. Tidal waves, it is a place where they can happen, although since the epicenter was very near (UNINTELLIGIBLE), then they'd be (UNINTELLIGIBLE) from having waves (ph) to form and to make a very big wave that could make more damages. Somehow, maybe in some other places, there could be some damages caused by a tidal wave.
BROWN: And I assume right now your biggest concern is quite literally figuring out what your problems are. That you're still trying to figure out how bad the problems are and you're just trying to collect that.
GELISTA: That's correct. Our function here in Mexico City is seeing what happens with the civil (ph) protection unit in the state and in the municipalities. And according to that, well, we establish a response to the damages' cost. But the damages at the time, and the attendance of this earthquake, is being managed by the local units.
BROWN: Sir, thanks for your time. I know you're very busy right now. We appreciate your taking a couple minutes with us and our audience around the world to explain what the situation is. Thank you, sir, very much. Carlos Gelista, who runs the Emergency Management Agency in Mexico tonight on the earthquake there.
We'll take a break, try and catch up some time here. When we come back, a pilot under arrest after trying to carry a loaded gun on to a passenger jet. And in Florida, a neighborhood with many questions after an FBI raid today. A long way to go on this Tuesday night from New York.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: The sniper case starts our national roundup tonight. A grand jury met today in northern Virginia to consider indicting John Lee Malvo, the younger of the two sniper suspects. The decision won't be made public until tomorrow, but the lead prosecutor tonight said it is safe to assume Malvo will be tried on two counts of capital murder. Last week a judge ruled the 17-year-old should be tried as an adult. Authorities at New York's LaGuardia Airport arrested a Northwest Airlines pilot this morning. They tell us Robert Donaldson (ph) was stopped when security screeners found a loaded pistol in his bag. Mr. Donaldson (ph) faces possible felony gun charges and up to 15 years in prison if convicted.
And survivors of an avalanche have been airlifted off a mountain in the western part of Canada. Four Canadians and three Americans died in yesterday's snow slide, which hit in British Columbia in the west coast of Canada.
On to the FBI raid in Florida today. And we'll be the first to admit that just what the federal agents were looking for remains very much a mystery at this hour. So is what they found. Here is what we do know from CNN's Susan Candiotti. Susan, good evening.
CANDIOTTI: Good evening, Aaron. For about eight hours today FBI agents, at least a dozen of them, swarmed all over this house in Palm Beach County, Florida, in a small community called Green Acres. FBI agents were executing a sealed search warrant, which means, of course, it's off limits to the public. However, sources tell us that the case is terrorism-related.
A public official tells us that the FBI told them that agents were following up on a tip they received after September 11. The timing of this search warrant execution, however, is just not known. So as you look at pictures of the FBI setting up shop here, setting up tables, logging evidence, according to neighbors we can tell you that the family lived here for about two years, and the man of the house told them that he is an engineer by trade from Saudi Arabia.
We checked out the name on property records, and, in fact, we are told that they paid all of their homeowners association fees on time and in cash. What's interesting is how thorough this search is. In fact, we even spotted a couple of FBI agents up on the roof checking things out. And in the yard we saw them using a metal detector and shovels.
They marked flags wherever they apparently felt something or detected something. And then someone with a shovel dug small, shallow holes to look for evidence, that, as you indicated, what they found is unclear and what they are looking for is unclear. Neighbors told us that a family of six lived here, a man and a woman. That they left suddenly, just a few days before September 11, before those attacks. Said they were heading back to Saudi Arabia.
Now of course all of this might simply be a coincidence, but the neighbors had suspicions, and they called the FBI at that time. We do know that the family has not been back since September of 2001. But the FBI will be back here tomorrow -- Aaron.
BROWN: Well, this is a tough -- a little bit tricky to make sense of. The neighbors call right after September 11. Is that correct?
CANDIOTTI: That's right. They were worried about what all this was about.
BROWN: Right. The family had left a few days before September 11. And now, a year and a quarter later, the FBI shows up?
CANDIOTTI: That's right, Aaron. We have a lot of questions that we're trying to get answers for -- and we don't have them for you tonight -- about the timing of, why now?
BROWN: We'll let you go do reporting and see when what we can figure out. Obviously, there are lots of questions. It's hard to figure it out pretty quickly. Susan, thank you -- Susan Candiotti working tonight in south Florida.
And coming up on NEWSNIGHT: the politics of the future. Civil rights activist Al Sharpton announces he's running for president.
And later: Do symbols of the Confederacy belong on the Georgia state flag?
This is NEWSNIGHT around the world.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Next on NEWSNIGHT: Reverend Sharpton or President Sharpton? Another candidate joins the race for 2004.
A short break and NEWSNIGHT's right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: There are those who see the Reverend Al Sharpton as a caricature, the loudmouthed, overfed, self-proclaimed civil rights leader. Those people don't like the Reverend Sharpton very much.
Others see him in quite a different light. They would agree he can be a bit over the top, agree that he causes lots of trouble, agree that there are some issues in his past that make him a target. But they also believe he's just the kind of guy that creates change by making noise and staging demonstrations and making people uncomfortable. Perhaps both sides agree on this: He is an unlikely presidential candidate. But tonight, he is that.
Here's CNN's Candy Crowley.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Even in New Hampshire, where presidential dreamers arrive almost as often as the snow...
REV. AL SHARPTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm the real Democrat. I am the only candidate that is unequivocally against the war, that is unequivocally against the tax cuts.
CROWLEY: ... Al Sharpton is an unusual sight at the usual spots. Not to belabor the obvious, but he is African-American, competing for a spot that has always, always gone to white men.
SHARPTON: I understand more about the global village we live in than anybody talking about running, because most people in the world are not rich, white males.
CROWLEY: It's hard to know what to make of Al Sharpton who is, depending on who you talk to, a civil rights activist who speaks for the voiceless and the hopeless, or a media manipulator who exploits racial tensions to feed an outsized ego.
Sharpton has been central to New York's most racially explosive moments, demanding a murder indictment against Bernard Goetz, the white man who shot four unarmed black teens Goetz said were trying to rob him. Leader of the Days of Outrage protest after a group of white teens with bats assaulted three black men in Howard Beach. And prominent adviser to teenager Tawana Brawley, who complained she was raped by five or six white men. She is now thought to have made it all up. Sharpton was held liable for defaming one of the accused.
SHARPTON: If all the opposition can do is pull one 15-year-old civil suit out, then I'm in good shape compared to what others have had to explain in New Hampshire.
CROWLEY: He is the most anti-tax cut, the most anti-death penalty, the most anti-war candidate of the '04 group.
SHARPTON: Get used to this. When I'm president, it just opens up like that. This is just a dress rehearsal. This is Pennsylvania Avenue.
CROWLEY: He was the only '04 candidate to show up at Washington's weekend peace rally. Sharpton is an anti-establishment figure who admits to having been an FBI informant, a politician without office, and a minister without parish, though not without talent, as evidenced during his trip to South Carolina, home of the first Southern primary.
SHARPTON: You know, if you see it on the news, they just say I protest other folks. I also challenge us. All of this violence and dope selling and disrespecting our women, we got to stop that in our community.
CROWLEY: But while he may be a natural on the pulpit, Sharpton may need pointers on the fine art of campaign chat. He seems more comfortable on his omnipresent cell phone than with the people who have come to talk to him. It would be easy to dismiss Al Sharpton, but his opponents don't. Perhaps he cannot win, but Sharpton could bring out enough black votes to rearrange the primary dynamic.
SHARPTON: If one kid in one barrio or ghetto or in Appalachia could say, Yes, he's right, I don't have to come from the so-called pedigree of those that are at the top. Regular people can think and lead and serve, then it's worth the trip.
CROWLEY: And, in that, he may succeed. To meet Al Sharpton is to remember him. Candy Crowley, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Quick items from around the world tonight, before we go to break, beginning in Kuwait: A gunman today ambushed two Americans on a road near a major U.S. military base, killing one, wounding the other. The victims were civilian contractors working for the military. The American Embassy is calling it a terrorist attack. Kuwaiti police are rounding up suspects. They have arrested about 70 people so far.
Two, Korea has opened high-level talks tonight -- tomorrow morning, their time, actually. South Korea hoping the nuclear crisis will be on the agenda, North Korea saying no. We'll know more about how things go later in the day.
Former President Jimmy Carter in Venezuela, today, he presented a plan for ending the national strike and dealing with opposition to the president, Hugo Chavez. The plan offers two options. The first would amend Venezuela's constitution to allow for early presidential elections. The other option calls for a national referendum on Chavez to be held in August. The strike goes on.
And in Panama, the search goes on tonight for three missing journalists. They were apparently ambushed and kidnapped near a village just north of the border with Colombia. Three others died in the attack. Among the missing is producer Robert Pelton, a familiar face to many of you. Mr. Pelton, you may recall, got the interview with John Walker Lindh after his capture at Mazar-e-Sharif in Afghanistan.
Ahead on NEWSNIGHT: on a bitterly cold Tuesday in New York, a bitter dispute over the flag in Georgia, already the new governor's first problem.
And in the market for a new car or, shall we say, a new old car? A trip to a very cool auction in segment seven tonight -- as NEWSNIGHT continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: And next on NEWSNIGHT: the flag controversy that will not die.
A short break and we're right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: We agree with one editorial writer who said this a few months back: The Confederate flag hasn't seen so much action since the battles of Gettysburg and Antietam. Those battles, of course, ended more than a century ago. It's anyone's guess when these battles will end, probably never.
Is the flag a symbol of heritage for many Southern whites or an ugly reminder of slavery for many blacks? In a way, this really isn't a debate. The flag surely is both, indispensable to some, offensive to many others. The real battle is whether something so divisive should be kept out of public places.
In Georgia, the big fight is over the state flag, revamped in the year 2001 to include just a small Confederate emblem. It was a volatile election issue. And the new Republican governor, Sonny Perdue, has vowed to let the people decide if they want their old flag with the big emblem back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. SONNY PERDUE (R), GEORGIA: What I want is for the majority of Georgians to speak in a way that sends a clear signal to the citizens of this state that that's their choice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Governor Perdue says he'll stick with his election promise and introduce a bill to hold a referendum on the debate. Whether it is to be a binding vote or just advisory to the legislature, we don't know yet.
No question, though, on how our next guest will vote. Hugh Henderson is the political director for Heritage Preservation Association, which has been fighting to restore the flag that was flown in Georgia before 2001. And he joins us tonight from Atlanta.
Good evening, Mr. Henderson. How are you?
HUGH HENDERSON, HERITAGE PRESERVATION ASSOCIATION: Just fine. Greetings from the heart of Dixie.
BROWN: Thank you.
Well, if this gets on a ballot, this will surely be a very nasty, divisive fight in the state of Georgia. Is this symbol, given how differently it is viewed, worth it?
HENDERSON: Well, I'd like to disagree with you there, briefly.
I don't think it will be that divisive. I've recommended to the political leaders here in the state that they follow the example set by the state of Mississippi last year: to form a commission, study the issue, come up with designs that most people of the state will be happy to vote on. And then that will settle the issue, with no political overflow. It happened and was settled very well in Mississippi last year.
BROWN: So, you're no longer saying you want the old flag back?
HENDERSON: Well, our group would prefer the old flag back. But we want to be fair. We want other people to have their option on the ballot also. We feel like that's the only fair way to do it.
BROWN: A third of the residents of the state of Georgia are African-American. In urban areas, certainly in Atlanta proper, the number is greater than that. And, clearly, most of them are going to be grossly offended. What do you say to them?
HENDERSON: Again, I think that this issue on the flag is a red herring. It's being used to divide Southerners, black and white.
We have more in common than we have keeping us apart. The flag issue wasn't an issue at all until the mid-1980s, when it was raised for P.R. and fund-raising purposes by some of the opposition groups. It did not arise from the people themselves.
BROWN: So, you don't think that, actually, African-Americans in the state of Georgia are going to be offended to see the Confederate emblem on their state flag? You don't think that's going to bother them?
HENDERSON: There may be some that it does, but the majority of the people, no, I don't think so. That flag...
BROWN: You think a majority of African-Americans are not going to be offended by the Confederate flag? Is that what you're saying?
HENDERSON: That's right. I really don't.
In Mississippi, in the referendum out there, 25 percent of the African-Americans in Mississippi voted to keep the Confederate flag on their flag.
BROWN: But that would be 75 percent who did not.
HENDERSON: But that's still a sizable proportion. And even the people that may have voted against it aren't necessarily that offended by it.
I grant you, there may be some. But we'll just have to see how it turns out here in Georgia. It will be much more positive than most people would like to admit at this point.
BROWN: One of the things that is likely to happen -- we would never say certain to happen -- you never know -- but seems likely to happen is that there will be pressure on groups to stay out of Georgia, to boycott Georgia, as was the case in South Carolina. Atlanta is very dependent on convention business, that sort of thing. Do you really want to bring that to bear on the city?
HENDERSON: Well, there is that threat of boycotts.
But, again, I would like to refer to data that I've obtained from Mississippi and South Carolina, who were both under threat of these type boycotts. South Carolina Industry Trade and Tourism provided me with information that their tourism revenues were up about 10 percent in the height of the boycott. And, in Mississippi this year, even with the effects of 9/11 on business, their tourism industry profits were up at least 2 percent.
So, I think it would be very similar, again, here in Georgia. This threat is an empty threat, I feel like.
BROWN: So, you feel like no group is actually not going to go to Georgia over this issue, that they're not going to worry about demonstrators who might show up at the Georgia Convention Center, that all of this is just outsider talk?
HENDERSON: A good bit of it, yes.
BROWN: I'm curious why you think that given what seems to me, at least, to a be reality, which is, it was one thing to fight a fight in South Carolina. It's another thing to fight a fight in Atlanta, Georgia, the home of the new South, the progressive South. You don't think that that's going to be a brawl?
HENDERSON: I really don't think it will.
We are past a lot of that here in Georgia. There are people coming in from outside, like Jesse Jackson, trying to stir this up in Georgia. If it wasn't for that, none of this would be going on.
BROWN: So it's outside agitators?
HENDERSON: A good bit of it, yes.
BROWN: We've got about a minute. Make the argument that the Confederate flag is not a symbol of slavery.
HENDERSON: The Confederate flag is a symbol of the common soldier who left his home to defend his home and his family during an unfortunate war. That flag represents the common soldier.
To associate it with slavery, when the war started in 1861, there were seven slave states in the Confederacy. There were eight slave states in the United States. It's a much more complicated issue than most people are willing to admit.
BROWN: When do you expect to see it on the ballot, sir?
HENDERSON: Well, we're waiting to hear from the governor on what he proposes. There's some talk of possibly on the nonpartisan primary ballot in two years.
BROWN: Mr. Henderson, we appreciate it. It's an interesting issue to have to debate. I assume you'll be doing a lot of that over the next couple of years. And we appreciate your time tonight. Thank you, sir, very much.
HENDERSON: Thank you very much.
BROWN: Thank you.
Next on NEWSNIGHT: a look under the hood in segment seven. We go to the biggest and the best classic car auction in America. Rev 'em up.
This is NEWSNIGHT. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Finally from us tonight: Every fanatic needs their own private Xanadu, that place where they can indulge in their magnificent obsessions with other like-minded souls who won't think, well, that they're a little unhinged.
Hard-core Trekkies love the convention circuit. Fans of Apple computers count the days until they can go gadget crazy at Macworld. Captains of industry rap about the free market in Davos, Switzerland every year around this time. They call it the capitalist Woodstock.
And for classic car geeks, Xanadu can summed up in two words: Barrett-Jackson, the auction that just finished up in Scottsdale, Arizona.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CRAIG JACKSON, PRESIDENT & CEO, BARRETT-JACKSON: Barrett-Jackson is the Super Bowl of classic car auction. People come in from all around the world. And it's the only classic car auction in the world that is a nucleus in itself.
We screen the cars from 5,000 cars offered to get to 800. So, the people that come here have a different taste and from all walks of life. You get everybody. And that's what car collecting is all about. Car collecting is not just for the elite. Car collecting is something that's very fun.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This car is one of two factory-built super Boss Mustangs.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We just do this every year, get the -- sell this one, get something else.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Some people go to the malls to shop. I just like to look. It's pretty. It's art.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is nothing but cars. This is not creature comforts. This is nothing but pure driving pleasure.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a white one, which is the top car in the tent.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is going to fetch over $1 million, they expect. So, pretty nice little ride, huh?
"SPANKY" ASSITER, AUCTIONEER: Going once 110, 111! Going twice! (INAUDIBLE) Sold!
There's three parts of an auction chant: a statement, a suggestion, and then a question.
Raise your hands high, 71, 72, 72,000!
I'm bid 100. Will you give 200? Statement, suggestion, question. And then you just speed it up.
If you can look around today, there might be 5,000 or 6,000 people here. And out of that 5,000 or 6,000, there may be 10 or 20 to bid on one car.
Higher than $81,000, $81,000, $81,000. I have $80,000? Sold or $83,000.
You have one seller wanting you to get more. You have 10 people wanting you to get less. And so you have to try to outthink all of them at once.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to just feel these seats. My (EXPLETIVE DELETED) has been on them.
JACKSON: Thirty percent of our bidders have been first-time bidders, and 30 percent of our consigners that have sold cars have turned around and bought more expensive, better cars. You'd have to field 3,000 calls to try to get the same responses as you're going to get here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sold!
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: That's it for tonight. Join us again tomorrow, 10:00 Eastern time.
I'm Aaron Brown in New York. Good night for all of us at NEWSNIGHT.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Strong Earthquake Hits Mexico>
Aired January 21, 2003 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, HOST: Good evening again, everyone. I miss Newt Gingrich. That guy was on to something. When Mr. Gingrich led the Republicans to control the House in '94, one of the first things he did was change some rules around the old place.
No longer could your elected representative take free meals from lobbyists. No longer could they take a sweet little golf vacation paid for by the businesses or the unions who may benefit from their work. No more Redskins tickets, things like that.
Mr. Gingrich thought that stuff, at the very least, looked really, really bad. Now, of course, he was trying to make a political point, too, that those were the Democratic rules, and that the new guys would come in and do it clean and do it right. And they did sort of for a while.
But now those anti-gift rules are a thing of the past. The Republican majority in the House has unreformed the House. Now if the House is working late and the people get hungry, lobbyists can buy dinner for everyone. Want a free trip to a swanky golf resort?
It's allowed again, as long as it's a charity event. No matter if the money to pay the freight came from an industry or union with business before the House. You still get on that plane. After all, it gets cold in D.C. in the winter.
The leadership, the Republican leadership in the House these days says this is not a problem. No member's vote can be bought with a pizza or a trip to Pebble Beach. Maybe yes. Maybe no. But as Mr. Gingrich said back then, it looks bad, real bad, and he was right.
So we miss him. He was on to something, where confidence in government was concerned, that his followers seemed to have forgotten.
On to the news of the day. We begin "The Whip" with Iraq and the prospect for war. Richard Roth has just returned from his travels with the chief U.N. weapons inspector. So Richard, start us off with a headline, please.
RICHARD ROTH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Blix is back. And soon the Security Council will have him. He says he got more documents from Iraq, but not enough to sing Baghdad's praises to the Security Council.
BROWN: Richard, thanks to you. Back to you at the top tonight.
On to the White House, where the administration is choosing its words carefully. They're strong words. Suzanne Malveaux has the latest on what's being said about Iraq from the White House -- the headline.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well today, from the president on down, the White House acknowledging that it still has to do a better job at making the case against Saddam Hussein. Not only to win over the American people, but also U.S. allies. And today the Bush administration began that public relations blitz in earnest.
BROWN: Suzanne, thank you.
And to Florida next and the war on terror. A story that is still developing. Susan Candiotti has that. So Susan, tell us what you can.
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hello Aaron. FBI agents today using a metal detector and shovels, digging for secret evidence today as a house in Palm Beach County, Florida. We're told it's a case related to terrorism. And we'll have more for you coming up.
BROWN: Susan, thank you. Back to you and the rest shortly.
Also coming up tonight, one sure way to start a fight on a New York subway. Say you love Al Sharpton, or say you hate Al Sharpton. And now one of the most polarizing figures in the politics of race is running for president, and not Manhattan borough president either. Candy Crowley tonight on the Sharpton candidacy.
And the fight over the confederate flag. Is it nothing more than a celebration of slavery? We'll look at two battles going on in Georgia over what's flying over the state capital and over what some kids have decided to wear to school.
And "Segment 7" tonight, nirvana for classic car fans from around the globe. The auction at Barrett-Jackson. All of that to come in the hour ahead.
We begin with a story that is breaking late this evening. Word of a strong earthquake in Mexico. An earthquake measuring 6.6 on the Richter stale is being felt in Mexico City tonight. It's still unclear how much damage has been caused. The epicenter is in the Pacific state of Colima, about 300 miles from Mexico City.
There are reports of power outages in large parts of Mexico City. Some witnesses say the quake itself lasted more than 20 seconds. That's a long time if you've ever been through one of those. The "Mexican Daily Universal" (ph) says that some buildings have been evacuated, including its own building.
That's what we know at this point. That's where the quake was centered. But again, this was felt all the way to Mexico City. As we get more information, we will update, of course.
Now on to Iraq. Today the administration began closing arguments in the case for war, with the rest of the world seeming to believe the opening statements have yet to begin. In a moment, we'll explore the president's closing argument. We begin tonight, though, with Hans Blix' opening statement, which will be the basis of the coming debate at the United Nations next week. Here again, CNN's Richard Roth.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROTH (voice-over): Hans Blix spent much of his flight home writing notes in English and Swedish on his trip to Baghdad. He will use these thoughts to go before the Security Council Monday in remarks that could shape world opinion on Iraq. Despite pressure from all sides, upon arrival Blix said at the Council he'd call them as he sees them, following two days of disarmament talks with senior Iraqi officials.
HANS BLIX, CHIEF U.N. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: Read them report. That is, tell them like it is, as you say in the U.S.
ROTH: Washington is saying that President Saddam Hussein is running out of time, but how much time Blix and his inspectors will be given by the Security Council is a simmering dispute. In Athens, his final stop, Blix indicated as long as Baghdad isn't coming clean, then the inspectors should receive more time to work.
BLIX: If they do not have the cooperation, if you have troubles with the inspections and you see obstruction, and you do not manage to solve any of the problems of the past, well, then, it could go off.
ROTH: Blix will report that Iraq has refused to close gaps in accounting for weapons of mass destruction. He is also expected to express concern after inspectors found 3,000 pages of nuclear documents in the home of an Iraqi scientist.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROTH: Blix doesn't even call the 10-point plan reached over the weekend an agreement with Iraq. He said on the plane to me that, at one point, Iraq almost abandoned the 10-point plan and there would be no formal agreement on anything -- Aaron.
BROWN: Would it surprise you -- let's try it this way. Would it surprise you if he, a week from yesterday, told the Security Council, this is pointless. These inspections are pointless. Do what year going to do?
ROTH: That will not happen. That would be a huge shock for Hans Blix. He wants to continue working. He thinks he's getting entrenched with more and more inspectors. He thinks almost the best is yet to come. That there'll be -- if he gets more time, they can find more.
But this is the problem: the more Iraq delays or obstructs in going into special places, the more he wants to keep working. And that's not something Washington wants.
BROWN: The obstructions or the delays have been -- this is a question -- more of the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) variety. That is to say, they are not especially helpful, but they're not also sending armed guards in front of these palaces, saying you can't come in.
ROTH: I think two months ago people were saying if Iraq does not comply with that resolution in any way, that was it. The last chance. Well it seems now that last chance is now being given another last chance.
Also, Iraq gave Blix conditions for U-2 overflights. I don't know how that will play in the U.S. And also, Iraqi scientists will be "encouraged" to conduct private interviews. That doesn't exactly sound like a demand or the government saying, talk to them. So there's still a lot of room to maneuver here.
BROWN: Well the clock is ticking. And it's got less than a week to go. We'll see what happens next week. Thank you, Richard. Richard Roth just back.
It's likely the administration knows how it will play the end game. A week from tonight the president delivers his State of the Union speech. Iraq clearly will be a major part of that. The inspector's report will be delivered the day before, and then the battle is likely to begin.
It may turn out the inspectors will make a strong case that Iraq never really is going to cooperate, which would make the Security Council's move easy. But as Richard indicated, it seems more likely that it won't be that clear-cut, making the president's job that much tougher. Tougher at home and a lot tougher abroad.
Back to CNN's Suzanne Malveaux with the White House side of the story -- Suzanne.
MALVEAUX: Well Aaron, the White House acknowledges from the president on down that it really needs to do a better job in convincing the American people, as well as U.S. allies, in making its case against Saddam Hussein. We heard from a number of players today, including the president, saying that Saddam Hussein has not complied with this U.N. Security Council resolution to disarm. That there are no signs that he is going to do this in the future. And that international pressure is not working.
The Bush administration establishing a new office of global communications. Releasing a 32-page document apparatus of lies talking about the dozen or so years Saddam Hussein has not complied. The president earlier today coming out after a meeting with his economist taking issue with what other U.N. Security Council members have said, suggesting that Saddam Hussein can actually be contained. But the president today, as well as other officials, saying that history proves that that just isn't so.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He's not disarming. As a matter of fact, it appears to be a rerun of a bad movie. He's delaying, he's deceiving, he's asking for time. He's playing hide and seek with inspectors.
One thing is for certain, he's not disarming. And so the United States of America, in the name of peace, will continue to insist he does disarm. And we will keep the pressure on Saddam Hussein.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICHARD ARMITAGE, DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE: Some people may say there is no smoking gun. But there's nothing but smoke.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: And the other part of the White House strategy is really to argue that, yes, the administration would like the support of the U.N. Security Council, but it is willing to go it alone with its own allies and friends, if necessary. And as you can imagine, Aaron, of course, you see the obvious military buildup. That a sign to Saddam Hussein that the administration is willing and capable to use military force if necessary -- Aaron.
BROWN: This acknowledgement that the case has not yet been made, either at home or abroad, any indication the administration will trot out some of the information it says it has, which proves the point?
MALVEAUX: The administration says that it's going to continue to give this kind of intelligence over to the inspectors. But also, you definitely get the sense from insiders here that they've already made their case. That they already have the evidence that's necessary. And really short of Saddam Hussein stepping down or perhaps being overthrown or, really, changing his stripes and coming forward with a complete declaration, saying here are the weapons that I've been hiding, it seems as if the administration is already making its case that he has not complied. And they do not believe that he is going to do so.
BROWN: Suzanne, thank you. It will be an interesting week coming up there as well at the White House. Thank you.
On to the military buildup, which does go on. The Pentagon today ordered two more aircraft carriers into the region. Two more armadas, really, because carriers travel with a fleet of cruisers and destroyers and other ships to service and protect them. Two more carriers are standing by.
That's half the U.S. Navy, more or less, on its way or waiting to join a growing chunk of the Army, Air Force and Marines. A lot of tearful good-byes all around. Here's CNN's Jamie McIntyre.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The USS Abraham Lincoln was scheduled to arrive home in Everett, Washington yesterday. Instead, it was ordered from Australia back to the Persian Gulf to wait for possible war. The crew has seen it coming for months, especially since the Lincoln is the only U.S. carrier armed with the Navy's newest most capable fighter plane, the F-18 super hornet.
CMDR. JEFF PENFIELD, SUPER HORNET SQUADRON: I think this particular squadron, with these brand new airplanes, given the capability that it has, if and when something occurs, we're going to be leading from the front. And there is no doubt that we're ready.
MCINTYRE: The latest deployment orders issued late last week include a second carrier, the USS Theodore Roosevelt, now exercising near Puerto Rico, as well as nearly 20 additional cruise missile- firing escort ships and submarines. All told, about 16,000 sailors. That will bring to four the number of U.S. carrier battle groups in the Gulf region by next month to ratchet up the pressure on Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein.
The pace of the deployments indicates Iraq may have more time, but not much. Deployment orders for about 17,500 soldiers from the Army's fourth infantry division from Fort Hood, Texas and Fort Carson, Colorado put most soldiers on a four-day alert, while their equipment is shipped to the region on ships over the next few weeks. And those troops don't know exactly where they're going. Sources say the Pentagon would lined to send them to Turkey, but there's no agreement yet with the government, which faces significant opposition to war from its citizens.
FAROUK LOGOGLU, TURKISH AMBASSADOR TO THE U.S.: They have to give full satisfaction, full cooperation to the inspections process in order to overt the war.
MCINTYRE: But that's not much comfort to Iraq, which continues to complain the U.S. is planning to attack no matter what.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Iraq accepted the inspectors and complied with Resolution 1441, but still the drums of war are beating.
MCINTYRE (on camera): By this time next month, the 65,000 or so U.S. troops in the Gulf region will have swollen to more than 150,000, along with about 30,000 British troops. Deployment orders to date cover about 80,000 U.S. troops, but the vast majority of those don't leave for the region for another couple of weeks. Jamie McIntyre, CNN, the Pentagon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Those 30,000 British soldiers represent about a quarter of the Royal Army's manpower. Beyond the sheer numbers, their deployment also signals just how far Britain's prime minister is prepared to go for a friend in need, even at a political cost to himself. And the political cost could be quite high. Tony Blair is taking shots from all sides: the opposition, and even his own party. Here's CNN's Walter Rodgers.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Welcome again, prime minister, to the second...
WALTER RODGERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The look on the British prime minister's face confirmed Tony Blair knows the tide of political support for war against Saddam Hussein is running against him.
TONY BLAIR, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Most people in this country are really worried because they think that you may go to war without an explicit U.N. resolution.
RODGERS: Blair again warned senior parliamentarians Iraq is trying to reconstitute its nuclear weapons program.
BLAIR: This is a serious issue. If we don't deal with it now and take a stand on it now, and it's come to a focal point around Iraq, then is North Korea going to believe us if we say this is what you must do to come into line in the international community?
RODGERS: Monday, Blair committed one quarter of all British armed forces to a possible war with Iraq. But for many in Britain, the issue is not Iraq. It is the United states.
JOHN WILLIAMS, PARLIAMENT MEMBER: Isn't it important for the long term that the Americans show as early as possible an absolute commitment to international law?
BLAIR: I think the worst thing that could happen -- I really believe this -- is that the world divides out into the pro-American and the anti-American forces.
RODGERS: Blair had to repeatedly assure parliament "America is a force for good in the world." An increasing number in his own party now disagree.
CHRIS MULLIN, PARLIAMENT MEMBER: At the end of the day, we don't have that much influence on them. In the end, they behave as they have always done. There's a fundamental gap between many of their values and those of Europe's.
BLAIR: We basically stand for the same values: liberty, tolerance, democracy. In the fight against international terrorism, we're all on the same side. Even in relation to tricky issues and difficult issues like Iraq.
RODGERS : Yet a new opinion poll now shows 77 percent of Britains oppose war with Iraq without United Nations backing. Sixty-eight percent of all Britains disapprove of U.S. President George W. Bush's policy on Iraq. (on camera): Tony Blair flies to Washington later this month to confer with President Bush about Iraq. But Blair has now been warned in parliament if he goes to war without United Nations' approval it will "split this country right down the middle."
(voice-over): It now appears it is an antiwar movement, not support for Tony Blair that is gaining momentum here. And if President Bush believes he has British public support, he is flat wrong. Walter Rodgers, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Well, as NEWSNIGHT continues on this Tuesday night, the 21st of January, we'll have the latest on this earthquake. More than seven points on the Richter scale in Mexico. We'll talk to the director of the Mexican Emergency Management Agency in a moment.
We'll also take you to a quiet Florida neighborhood where the FBI showed up today. That and more as we continue from New York.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: We have a bit more now on the breaking story we mentioned at the top of the program tonight. A strong earthquake that has hit in Mexico. An earthquake measuring 7.6 on the Richter scale, felt this evening all the way in Mexico City. It was centered in the Pacific state of Colima, about 300 miles from Mexico City.
We're trying to assess just what the damage the quake has caused. On the phone to help us in that regard is the director of the Emergency Management Agency for Mexico, Carlos Gelista. Mr. Gelista, do you know yet how bad the damage is close to where the quake was centered?
CARLOS GELISTA, DIRECTOR OF EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT: Well, as a matter of fact, at this moment we are still establishing periodically contacts with the civil (ph) protection units over there in the state of Colima and in (UNINTELLIGIBLE), which are neighboring states to Colima. Very near the epicenter of the earthquake.
And at this time, they are telling us that only minor incidents were registered during this earthquake. Of course, this is very preliminary information, since the units, the civil (ph) protection units are going all around the state to check if there are some more damages to report. But for the time being, only a bridge over in the state of (UNINTELLIGIBLE) suffered some damages.
Already the police and civil protection people are over there at the place. And some parts of some houses over there in those states, but no victims are reported at this time.
BROWN: Now you're 300 miles away in Mexico City. Tell me what you felt.
GELISTA: Well it was a very, very strong earthquake, since we more or less know what they feel like. We knew from the beginning it was a strong earthquake, wherever the epicenter was going to be located. And as you were saying, it was located about 300 kilometers west of Mexico City, but still, it was a very, very strong earthquake.
Here in Mexico City there were some blackouts in parts of the city, as it usually happens when there is an earthquake. But the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) here of Mexico City have reported only minor damages. Also, no victims at all.
BROWN: Do you know, sir, if the epicenter was in the ocean or on land?
GELISTA: It was in the ocean.
BROWN: Do you have concerns of tidal waves, that sort of thing, as aftershocks begin?
GELISTA: Aftershocks, of course, we expect some aftershocks to happen, as it usually happens after big earthquakes like this one. Of course, the aftershocks usually are of a minor degree of the main earthquake. Tidal waves, it is a place where they can happen, although since the epicenter was very near (UNINTELLIGIBLE), then they'd be (UNINTELLIGIBLE) from having waves (ph) to form and to make a very big wave that could make more damages. Somehow, maybe in some other places, there could be some damages caused by a tidal wave.
BROWN: And I assume right now your biggest concern is quite literally figuring out what your problems are. That you're still trying to figure out how bad the problems are and you're just trying to collect that.
GELISTA: That's correct. Our function here in Mexico City is seeing what happens with the civil (ph) protection unit in the state and in the municipalities. And according to that, well, we establish a response to the damages' cost. But the damages at the time, and the attendance of this earthquake, is being managed by the local units.
BROWN: Sir, thanks for your time. I know you're very busy right now. We appreciate your taking a couple minutes with us and our audience around the world to explain what the situation is. Thank you, sir, very much. Carlos Gelista, who runs the Emergency Management Agency in Mexico tonight on the earthquake there.
We'll take a break, try and catch up some time here. When we come back, a pilot under arrest after trying to carry a loaded gun on to a passenger jet. And in Florida, a neighborhood with many questions after an FBI raid today. A long way to go on this Tuesday night from New York.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: The sniper case starts our national roundup tonight. A grand jury met today in northern Virginia to consider indicting John Lee Malvo, the younger of the two sniper suspects. The decision won't be made public until tomorrow, but the lead prosecutor tonight said it is safe to assume Malvo will be tried on two counts of capital murder. Last week a judge ruled the 17-year-old should be tried as an adult. Authorities at New York's LaGuardia Airport arrested a Northwest Airlines pilot this morning. They tell us Robert Donaldson (ph) was stopped when security screeners found a loaded pistol in his bag. Mr. Donaldson (ph) faces possible felony gun charges and up to 15 years in prison if convicted.
And survivors of an avalanche have been airlifted off a mountain in the western part of Canada. Four Canadians and three Americans died in yesterday's snow slide, which hit in British Columbia in the west coast of Canada.
On to the FBI raid in Florida today. And we'll be the first to admit that just what the federal agents were looking for remains very much a mystery at this hour. So is what they found. Here is what we do know from CNN's Susan Candiotti. Susan, good evening.
CANDIOTTI: Good evening, Aaron. For about eight hours today FBI agents, at least a dozen of them, swarmed all over this house in Palm Beach County, Florida, in a small community called Green Acres. FBI agents were executing a sealed search warrant, which means, of course, it's off limits to the public. However, sources tell us that the case is terrorism-related.
A public official tells us that the FBI told them that agents were following up on a tip they received after September 11. The timing of this search warrant execution, however, is just not known. So as you look at pictures of the FBI setting up shop here, setting up tables, logging evidence, according to neighbors we can tell you that the family lived here for about two years, and the man of the house told them that he is an engineer by trade from Saudi Arabia.
We checked out the name on property records, and, in fact, we are told that they paid all of their homeowners association fees on time and in cash. What's interesting is how thorough this search is. In fact, we even spotted a couple of FBI agents up on the roof checking things out. And in the yard we saw them using a metal detector and shovels.
They marked flags wherever they apparently felt something or detected something. And then someone with a shovel dug small, shallow holes to look for evidence, that, as you indicated, what they found is unclear and what they are looking for is unclear. Neighbors told us that a family of six lived here, a man and a woman. That they left suddenly, just a few days before September 11, before those attacks. Said they were heading back to Saudi Arabia.
Now of course all of this might simply be a coincidence, but the neighbors had suspicions, and they called the FBI at that time. We do know that the family has not been back since September of 2001. But the FBI will be back here tomorrow -- Aaron.
BROWN: Well, this is a tough -- a little bit tricky to make sense of. The neighbors call right after September 11. Is that correct?
CANDIOTTI: That's right. They were worried about what all this was about.
BROWN: Right. The family had left a few days before September 11. And now, a year and a quarter later, the FBI shows up?
CANDIOTTI: That's right, Aaron. We have a lot of questions that we're trying to get answers for -- and we don't have them for you tonight -- about the timing of, why now?
BROWN: We'll let you go do reporting and see when what we can figure out. Obviously, there are lots of questions. It's hard to figure it out pretty quickly. Susan, thank you -- Susan Candiotti working tonight in south Florida.
And coming up on NEWSNIGHT: the politics of the future. Civil rights activist Al Sharpton announces he's running for president.
And later: Do symbols of the Confederacy belong on the Georgia state flag?
This is NEWSNIGHT around the world.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Next on NEWSNIGHT: Reverend Sharpton or President Sharpton? Another candidate joins the race for 2004.
A short break and NEWSNIGHT's right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: There are those who see the Reverend Al Sharpton as a caricature, the loudmouthed, overfed, self-proclaimed civil rights leader. Those people don't like the Reverend Sharpton very much.
Others see him in quite a different light. They would agree he can be a bit over the top, agree that he causes lots of trouble, agree that there are some issues in his past that make him a target. But they also believe he's just the kind of guy that creates change by making noise and staging demonstrations and making people uncomfortable. Perhaps both sides agree on this: He is an unlikely presidential candidate. But tonight, he is that.
Here's CNN's Candy Crowley.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Even in New Hampshire, where presidential dreamers arrive almost as often as the snow...
REV. AL SHARPTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm the real Democrat. I am the only candidate that is unequivocally against the war, that is unequivocally against the tax cuts.
CROWLEY: ... Al Sharpton is an unusual sight at the usual spots. Not to belabor the obvious, but he is African-American, competing for a spot that has always, always gone to white men.
SHARPTON: I understand more about the global village we live in than anybody talking about running, because most people in the world are not rich, white males.
CROWLEY: It's hard to know what to make of Al Sharpton who is, depending on who you talk to, a civil rights activist who speaks for the voiceless and the hopeless, or a media manipulator who exploits racial tensions to feed an outsized ego.
Sharpton has been central to New York's most racially explosive moments, demanding a murder indictment against Bernard Goetz, the white man who shot four unarmed black teens Goetz said were trying to rob him. Leader of the Days of Outrage protest after a group of white teens with bats assaulted three black men in Howard Beach. And prominent adviser to teenager Tawana Brawley, who complained she was raped by five or six white men. She is now thought to have made it all up. Sharpton was held liable for defaming one of the accused.
SHARPTON: If all the opposition can do is pull one 15-year-old civil suit out, then I'm in good shape compared to what others have had to explain in New Hampshire.
CROWLEY: He is the most anti-tax cut, the most anti-death penalty, the most anti-war candidate of the '04 group.
SHARPTON: Get used to this. When I'm president, it just opens up like that. This is just a dress rehearsal. This is Pennsylvania Avenue.
CROWLEY: He was the only '04 candidate to show up at Washington's weekend peace rally. Sharpton is an anti-establishment figure who admits to having been an FBI informant, a politician without office, and a minister without parish, though not without talent, as evidenced during his trip to South Carolina, home of the first Southern primary.
SHARPTON: You know, if you see it on the news, they just say I protest other folks. I also challenge us. All of this violence and dope selling and disrespecting our women, we got to stop that in our community.
CROWLEY: But while he may be a natural on the pulpit, Sharpton may need pointers on the fine art of campaign chat. He seems more comfortable on his omnipresent cell phone than with the people who have come to talk to him. It would be easy to dismiss Al Sharpton, but his opponents don't. Perhaps he cannot win, but Sharpton could bring out enough black votes to rearrange the primary dynamic.
SHARPTON: If one kid in one barrio or ghetto or in Appalachia could say, Yes, he's right, I don't have to come from the so-called pedigree of those that are at the top. Regular people can think and lead and serve, then it's worth the trip.
CROWLEY: And, in that, he may succeed. To meet Al Sharpton is to remember him. Candy Crowley, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Quick items from around the world tonight, before we go to break, beginning in Kuwait: A gunman today ambushed two Americans on a road near a major U.S. military base, killing one, wounding the other. The victims were civilian contractors working for the military. The American Embassy is calling it a terrorist attack. Kuwaiti police are rounding up suspects. They have arrested about 70 people so far.
Two, Korea has opened high-level talks tonight -- tomorrow morning, their time, actually. South Korea hoping the nuclear crisis will be on the agenda, North Korea saying no. We'll know more about how things go later in the day.
Former President Jimmy Carter in Venezuela, today, he presented a plan for ending the national strike and dealing with opposition to the president, Hugo Chavez. The plan offers two options. The first would amend Venezuela's constitution to allow for early presidential elections. The other option calls for a national referendum on Chavez to be held in August. The strike goes on.
And in Panama, the search goes on tonight for three missing journalists. They were apparently ambushed and kidnapped near a village just north of the border with Colombia. Three others died in the attack. Among the missing is producer Robert Pelton, a familiar face to many of you. Mr. Pelton, you may recall, got the interview with John Walker Lindh after his capture at Mazar-e-Sharif in Afghanistan.
Ahead on NEWSNIGHT: on a bitterly cold Tuesday in New York, a bitter dispute over the flag in Georgia, already the new governor's first problem.
And in the market for a new car or, shall we say, a new old car? A trip to a very cool auction in segment seven tonight -- as NEWSNIGHT continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: And next on NEWSNIGHT: the flag controversy that will not die.
A short break and we're right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: We agree with one editorial writer who said this a few months back: The Confederate flag hasn't seen so much action since the battles of Gettysburg and Antietam. Those battles, of course, ended more than a century ago. It's anyone's guess when these battles will end, probably never.
Is the flag a symbol of heritage for many Southern whites or an ugly reminder of slavery for many blacks? In a way, this really isn't a debate. The flag surely is both, indispensable to some, offensive to many others. The real battle is whether something so divisive should be kept out of public places.
In Georgia, the big fight is over the state flag, revamped in the year 2001 to include just a small Confederate emblem. It was a volatile election issue. And the new Republican governor, Sonny Perdue, has vowed to let the people decide if they want their old flag with the big emblem back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. SONNY PERDUE (R), GEORGIA: What I want is for the majority of Georgians to speak in a way that sends a clear signal to the citizens of this state that that's their choice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Governor Perdue says he'll stick with his election promise and introduce a bill to hold a referendum on the debate. Whether it is to be a binding vote or just advisory to the legislature, we don't know yet.
No question, though, on how our next guest will vote. Hugh Henderson is the political director for Heritage Preservation Association, which has been fighting to restore the flag that was flown in Georgia before 2001. And he joins us tonight from Atlanta.
Good evening, Mr. Henderson. How are you?
HUGH HENDERSON, HERITAGE PRESERVATION ASSOCIATION: Just fine. Greetings from the heart of Dixie.
BROWN: Thank you.
Well, if this gets on a ballot, this will surely be a very nasty, divisive fight in the state of Georgia. Is this symbol, given how differently it is viewed, worth it?
HENDERSON: Well, I'd like to disagree with you there, briefly.
I don't think it will be that divisive. I've recommended to the political leaders here in the state that they follow the example set by the state of Mississippi last year: to form a commission, study the issue, come up with designs that most people of the state will be happy to vote on. And then that will settle the issue, with no political overflow. It happened and was settled very well in Mississippi last year.
BROWN: So, you're no longer saying you want the old flag back?
HENDERSON: Well, our group would prefer the old flag back. But we want to be fair. We want other people to have their option on the ballot also. We feel like that's the only fair way to do it.
BROWN: A third of the residents of the state of Georgia are African-American. In urban areas, certainly in Atlanta proper, the number is greater than that. And, clearly, most of them are going to be grossly offended. What do you say to them?
HENDERSON: Again, I think that this issue on the flag is a red herring. It's being used to divide Southerners, black and white.
We have more in common than we have keeping us apart. The flag issue wasn't an issue at all until the mid-1980s, when it was raised for P.R. and fund-raising purposes by some of the opposition groups. It did not arise from the people themselves.
BROWN: So, you don't think that, actually, African-Americans in the state of Georgia are going to be offended to see the Confederate emblem on their state flag? You don't think that's going to bother them?
HENDERSON: There may be some that it does, but the majority of the people, no, I don't think so. That flag...
BROWN: You think a majority of African-Americans are not going to be offended by the Confederate flag? Is that what you're saying?
HENDERSON: That's right. I really don't.
In Mississippi, in the referendum out there, 25 percent of the African-Americans in Mississippi voted to keep the Confederate flag on their flag.
BROWN: But that would be 75 percent who did not.
HENDERSON: But that's still a sizable proportion. And even the people that may have voted against it aren't necessarily that offended by it.
I grant you, there may be some. But we'll just have to see how it turns out here in Georgia. It will be much more positive than most people would like to admit at this point.
BROWN: One of the things that is likely to happen -- we would never say certain to happen -- you never know -- but seems likely to happen is that there will be pressure on groups to stay out of Georgia, to boycott Georgia, as was the case in South Carolina. Atlanta is very dependent on convention business, that sort of thing. Do you really want to bring that to bear on the city?
HENDERSON: Well, there is that threat of boycotts.
But, again, I would like to refer to data that I've obtained from Mississippi and South Carolina, who were both under threat of these type boycotts. South Carolina Industry Trade and Tourism provided me with information that their tourism revenues were up about 10 percent in the height of the boycott. And, in Mississippi this year, even with the effects of 9/11 on business, their tourism industry profits were up at least 2 percent.
So, I think it would be very similar, again, here in Georgia. This threat is an empty threat, I feel like.
BROWN: So, you feel like no group is actually not going to go to Georgia over this issue, that they're not going to worry about demonstrators who might show up at the Georgia Convention Center, that all of this is just outsider talk?
HENDERSON: A good bit of it, yes.
BROWN: I'm curious why you think that given what seems to me, at least, to a be reality, which is, it was one thing to fight a fight in South Carolina. It's another thing to fight a fight in Atlanta, Georgia, the home of the new South, the progressive South. You don't think that that's going to be a brawl?
HENDERSON: I really don't think it will.
We are past a lot of that here in Georgia. There are people coming in from outside, like Jesse Jackson, trying to stir this up in Georgia. If it wasn't for that, none of this would be going on.
BROWN: So it's outside agitators?
HENDERSON: A good bit of it, yes.
BROWN: We've got about a minute. Make the argument that the Confederate flag is not a symbol of slavery.
HENDERSON: The Confederate flag is a symbol of the common soldier who left his home to defend his home and his family during an unfortunate war. That flag represents the common soldier.
To associate it with slavery, when the war started in 1861, there were seven slave states in the Confederacy. There were eight slave states in the United States. It's a much more complicated issue than most people are willing to admit.
BROWN: When do you expect to see it on the ballot, sir?
HENDERSON: Well, we're waiting to hear from the governor on what he proposes. There's some talk of possibly on the nonpartisan primary ballot in two years.
BROWN: Mr. Henderson, we appreciate it. It's an interesting issue to have to debate. I assume you'll be doing a lot of that over the next couple of years. And we appreciate your time tonight. Thank you, sir, very much.
HENDERSON: Thank you very much.
BROWN: Thank you.
Next on NEWSNIGHT: a look under the hood in segment seven. We go to the biggest and the best classic car auction in America. Rev 'em up.
This is NEWSNIGHT. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Finally from us tonight: Every fanatic needs their own private Xanadu, that place where they can indulge in their magnificent obsessions with other like-minded souls who won't think, well, that they're a little unhinged.
Hard-core Trekkies love the convention circuit. Fans of Apple computers count the days until they can go gadget crazy at Macworld. Captains of industry rap about the free market in Davos, Switzerland every year around this time. They call it the capitalist Woodstock.
And for classic car geeks, Xanadu can summed up in two words: Barrett-Jackson, the auction that just finished up in Scottsdale, Arizona.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CRAIG JACKSON, PRESIDENT & CEO, BARRETT-JACKSON: Barrett-Jackson is the Super Bowl of classic car auction. People come in from all around the world. And it's the only classic car auction in the world that is a nucleus in itself.
We screen the cars from 5,000 cars offered to get to 800. So, the people that come here have a different taste and from all walks of life. You get everybody. And that's what car collecting is all about. Car collecting is not just for the elite. Car collecting is something that's very fun.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This car is one of two factory-built super Boss Mustangs.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We just do this every year, get the -- sell this one, get something else.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Some people go to the malls to shop. I just like to look. It's pretty. It's art.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is nothing but cars. This is not creature comforts. This is nothing but pure driving pleasure.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a white one, which is the top car in the tent.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is going to fetch over $1 million, they expect. So, pretty nice little ride, huh?
"SPANKY" ASSITER, AUCTIONEER: Going once 110, 111! Going twice! (INAUDIBLE) Sold!
There's three parts of an auction chant: a statement, a suggestion, and then a question.
Raise your hands high, 71, 72, 72,000!
I'm bid 100. Will you give 200? Statement, suggestion, question. And then you just speed it up.
If you can look around today, there might be 5,000 or 6,000 people here. And out of that 5,000 or 6,000, there may be 10 or 20 to bid on one car.
Higher than $81,000, $81,000, $81,000. I have $80,000? Sold or $83,000.
You have one seller wanting you to get more. You have 10 people wanting you to get less. And so you have to try to outthink all of them at once.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to just feel these seats. My (EXPLETIVE DELETED) has been on them.
JACKSON: Thirty percent of our bidders have been first-time bidders, and 30 percent of our consigners that have sold cars have turned around and bought more expensive, better cars. You'd have to field 3,000 calls to try to get the same responses as you're going to get here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sold!
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: That's it for tonight. Join us again tomorrow, 10:00 Eastern time.
I'm Aaron Brown in New York. Good night for all of us at NEWSNIGHT.
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