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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown

George W. Bush and Iraq: The Politics of Selling the Plan

Aired January 29, 2003 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANDERSON COOPER, HOST: Good evening, everyone. I'm Anderson Cooper. Aaron Brown is on assignment and he'll be back on Monday.
Tonight we track the fallout, domestic and international, from the president's State of the Union address. Leave it to me to seize on what is a probably a relatively unimportant detail in last night's coverage of the speech, but, hey, the important details are all going to be dealt with by others in just a few moments. I have this one entirely to myself, I think.

The detail is a word. A word I didn't know was used outside of rock climbing circles. And outside rock climbing circles is where I spend 100 percent of my time. The word is "overhang." I heard it first out of the mouth of a very smart CNN colleague and I was impressed.

It is the best kind of description, after all. One that forcefully conjures up a picture, in this case, of an overhead shelf that juts out so far it casts everything below it in deep shadow. The problem of Iraq, it was said, was overhanging the State of the Union speech.

But then I began to hear a lot of other people talking about overhangs. The economy was another overhang, and there was an overhang reference in the paper this morning. So there are two possibilities here. Maybe one really smart person used the term first, and it was quickly adopted by others who realized how apt it was. Things do propagate that quickly these days.

But there was another possibility, and this is the one that kind of worries me. The possibility that there is actually a "word of the night" mailing list or a "word of the week" mailing list, and I'm not on it. I'll try to keep this anxiety from overhanging the broadcast tonight, but if the manager of that mailing list happens to be listening tonight, call me -- or at least add my name to the list. I can't be sitting here using yesterday's words.

And so we begin tonight with "The Whip" at the White House, where the campaign to convince the world about Iraq is already at full throttle. Senior White House correspondent John King is covering that.

John, the headline, please. JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, the president publicly acknowledged today what he called an honest debate in the country over whether war is the right choice when it comes to Iraq. But Mr. Bush also said he believes containment will not work when it comes to Saddam Hussein. The White House says we are in, "a final window of diplomacy" that might last perhaps three weeks, not much longer -- Anderson.

COOPER: All right. Back to you in a moment. A busy day at the United Nations.

And for our own Richard Roth, who is there, Richard, the headline.

RICHARD ROTH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, first they waited for Blix. Now they wait for Powell at the Security Council. After the State of the Union address, ambassadors asked -- brace yourself for a cliche -- where's the beef?

COOPER: All right. Two more questions tonight. What intelligence does the U.S. have involving Iraq? And how much will it share to help make its case? That is what David Ensor is looking at tonight.

David, a headline, please.

DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well those are the questions, Anderson. And there is a spirited debate still underway between intelligence officers and the political people in the Bush administration over how much classified intelligence should be declassified -- can be safely declassified, so as to make the president's case. Colin Powell will have to walk a fine line at the U.N. next week.

COOPER: No doubt. David, back to you in a moment. On to a terrible factory explosion in North Carolina. Brian Cabell is on that for us.

Brian, the headline.

BRIAN CABELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, a huge fire, a huge explosion here in Kinston, North Carolina today. But the casualty figures, as we're getting them now, not quite as bad as we might have expected earlier in the afternoon. Now we have two confirmed dead, three unaccounted for, and about 20 wounded fairly seriously. Not as bad as we expected. The cause of the blast still unknown -- Anderson.

COOPER: All right. Spread some good news there, Brian. Back with you, back with all of you in a moment.

Also, coming up tonight on NEWSNIGHT, January 29, 2003, the response from some Pakistanis here in the U.S. ordered to register with immigration authorities. Their response: pick up and leave. And it's become such a controversy that even the secretary of state has gotten an earful from Pakistani diplomats. Sort of a twist on the phrase "Don't mess with Texas." A spurned wife in Houston is on trial for murdering her cheating husband by running him over a couple times. We'll have the latest on the case of Clara Harris.

And political satire Iraqi style. When Saddam Hussein says "laugh," you better. That is our "Segment Seven" tonight.

We have a lot to cover tonight. We start off with the speech. And judging by the reaction it got, some might argue President Bush buried the lead. Nearly all the talk today centered not on Medicare or hydrogen cars, or even the state of the fragile economy. The focus was on squarely on the second half of his speech, the part about Iraq.

Last night, President Bush kicked off what the White House is calling the final phase of diplomacy in the confrontation with Saddam Hussein. Today in Michigan, the words on the backdrop behind the president read "Strengthening Medicare," but the headline, once again, Iraq.

Here again, CNN's John King.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KING (voice-over): On the road the day after the big speech, healthcare the major focus. But also a direct challenge to the United Nations.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The risks of doing nothing. The risk of assuming the best from Saddam Hussein. It's just not a risk worth taking. So I call upon the world to come together and insist that this dangerous man disarm.

KING: Now comes another phase of difficult diplomacy. A window of three weeks or so to lobby skeptics. Next Wednesday, Secretary of State Powell will make a presentation to the Security Council, including newly declassified intelligence the White House says proves Iraq is spying on U.N. teams. Racing to move evidence and sanitize sites just before inspectors arrive, and has ongoing ties to al Qaeda.

COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: It will be I think a rather comprehensive presentation.

KING: Russia is open to supporting military action if Secretary Powell can show Iraq is obstructing inspections.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We would like to see undeniable proof, OK.

KING: Key council members, Germany and France, have already seen much of the intelligence and still want to give inspectors more time. A major U.S. goal in making a public presentation is to pressure them and warn their credibility is at stake, because the Security Council unanimously agreed in Resolution 1441 to give Iraq a final opportunity to disarm. But warned of serious consequences if it did not cooperate fully.

BUSH: I want the United Nations to be something other than an empty debating society.

KING: The president will compare notes over the next three days with two close allies: Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi and British Prime Minister Tony Blair.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KING: And the meeting with Saudi Arabia's foreign minister, Prince Saud al-Faisal, also suddenly added to the president's schedule tonight. That meeting will be tomorrow. The Saudis requested it, we are told, because they were concerned with the tough language in the president's State of the Union address. The Saudis want Mr. Bush to give diplomacy more time, especially in an effort led by their government to convince Saddam Hussein to step down and go into exile.

No one high in the Bush administration believes that will happen. That the Iraqi leader will leave voluntarily, but they will have the meeting with the Saudi foreign minister here at the White House tomorrow. And Secretary of State Powell did say today that if Saddam would step aside, the United States would help him find a home elsewhere. And that perhaps the showdown could be ratcheted down a bit -- Anderson.

COOPER: John, I am interested in knowing from your discussions with people in the White House, how concerned are people who work in the White House about the opposition to the president's policies both domestically and from our European allies?

KING: Well they certainly are concerned again to hear prominent Democrats like Senator Robert Byrd of West Virginia, like Senator Edward Kennedy of Massachusetts saying the president should come back to Congress and seek authorization before any military action. The White House says Congress already had a vote on this, but they do not like domestic opposition rising up at the very moment.

The president is trying once again to rally international support. They believe their Democrats simply don't have the votes and the president's position will prevail. On the world stage they say this is very much like the debate to get the inspectors into Iraq in the first place. They believe France and others will be reluctant until the very end.

Here in the White House they believe in the end they will once again win the debate. But they say one of the elements in that argument in trying to win the debate is convincing France, Russia and others that if they don't get on board they will be on the sidelines when the president leads a coalition to war in Iraq.

COOPER: All right. John King at the White House, thanks very much.

As John just mentioned, the president today ran into stiff opposition from two Senate veterans: Democrats Robert Byrd of West Virginia and Edward Kennedy of Massachusetts. This afternoon, on the Senate floor, Senator Byrd called on the president to seek Security Council approval before going to war. A few minutes later, Senator Kennedy said he will introduce a measure requiring the president to seek new congressional approval for military action in Iraq. Congress already approved military action once before.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. EDWARD KENNEDY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: If we rush to pull the trigger against Iraq, we will invite catastrophe and condemnation. America, which has long been a beacon of freedom for people around the world, will turn into a symbol of brute force and aggression. The world may come to see us a dangerous rogue state needing to be contained and deterred.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Well the senator's proposal is unlikely to get anywhere. The Democratic leadership has not embraced it, and Republicans are lining up against the idea.

We move now to the U.N. It is still unclear whether the United States will seek U.N. permission to take military action. Unclear too what the answer would be. Right now, after a day of arguing the case, the answer seems to be no. The hope is things will change next week, when Secretary of State Powell is expected to bring more evidence to bear. With that, here again, CNN's Richard Roth.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROTH (voice-over): The weapons inspectors return to answer questions. The 15 ambassadors on the Security Council were on hand, and so was an overflow media crowd. But it was a man that wasn't there that dominated the Security Council Iraq debate. Colin Powell is coming next Wednesday, and until then, one diplomat said, we're just treading water.

The secretary of state plans to reveal intelligence on Iraqi maneuvers to avoid detection of weapons of mass destruction. And that's just what council members wanted, the U.S. to finally provide proof.

GUNTER PLEUGER, GERMAN AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: We welcomed the announcement of President Bush that Secretary of State Colin Powell will come to Security Council next Wednesday to supply new evidence that will certainly help the inspectors to do their job properly and more effectively.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Any country that has any new information whatsoever, they should deliver it to UNMOVIC and to IAEA to investigate that.

ROTH: Iraq says President Bush shouldn't bother sending Powell.

MOHAMMED ALDOURI, IRAQI AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: You can accuse as much as you like, but you cannot provide one piece of evidence.

ROTH: But the Russians want undeniable proof.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What evidence would Colin Powell have to present to convince you that war is warranted?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Convincing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How convincing? What exactly?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, are you seriously asking me this question?

JOHN NEGROPONTE, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: We think the time for diplomatic action is narrowing. The diplomatic window is closing. We feel that the time for a decision, decision making is fast approaching.

ROTH: But for now, most of the Security Council believes the inspectors are better than military force.

JEAN-MARC DE LA SABLIERE, FRENCH AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: The inspections are progressing without major incident, and they are already producing significant results.

JEREMY GREENSTOCK, BRITISH AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: Yes, there are members of the council who are asking for time, but it isn't a matter of time. It's a matter of whether Iraq realizes the game is up, or whether it is continuing to try to keep the inspectors at bay.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROTH: And inside the closed-door briefing by the inspectors, a rocket warhead was tested by the inspectors outside of the country. It tested negative for any chemical agent. Other news, Hans Blix and Mohamed ElBaradei canceling a trip to Germany next week so that they can hear Powell's appearance. And Powell apparently will be an open session with the Security Council for most of the debate.

And in a seven-page series of notes to ambassadors, Iraq said Blix's briefing on Monday was really based on political judgments -- Anderson.

COOPER: Richard, you said it was going to be an open session. Does that mean open to the public as well, televised?

ROTH: Well, it will be televised, though it still could change. And perhaps some sensitive parts would be behind closed doors.

COOPER: All right. Richard Roth at the U.N. tonight, thanks very much.

Exactly what Secretary Powell is expected to bring to the U.N. next Wednesday, that is the question CNN's David Ensor has been looking into.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ENSOR (voice-over): Sources say the evidence from Secretary Powell will likely include surveillance imagery, showing Iraqis clearing out sites just prior to the arrival of U.N. arms inspectors. And possibly images too of the secret, mobile biological weapons labs the U.S. says the Iraqis use to keep ahead of inspectors. Powell will also include information from prisoner interrogations and from Iraqi defectors.

POWELL: You can be sure that we will be as forthcoming as we can next week, but also mindful of sources and methods.

ENSOR: Sources and methods. There is the rub for the CIA. They are the holy grail of U.S. intelligence to be protected at all costs. That's why, officials say, there is a spirited debate over how much to reveal from voice communications intercepted by the U.S. National Security Agency and from human agents, Iraqis working for the CIA. What if, for example, Powell reveals something known about a specific facility that could only come from one of a few employees there?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What does Saddam do to anybody he has doubts about or mistrusts or feels offended by? He kills them. I mean, you know, kills their family.

ENSOR: And when it comes to interceptions of Iraqi communications, a cautionary tale. When a story came out that Osama bin Laden's satellite phone was being monitored, he stopped using it. And U.S. intelligence lost an invaluable source.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you disclose your capacity to intercept certain kinds of communication, well, you know, the target, the bad guy will not use it any more.

ENSOR: How convincing the evidence will be will depend in part on how the internal debate about what to release is resolved. But one senior Democrat who has seen the intelligence says the evidence of an ongoing chemical and biological weapons program in Iraq is compelling.

SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN (D), DELAWARE: I am convinced chemically and biologically there is no such evidence on the nuclear side. And it's the kind of evidence that if I was able to go to a jury I'd get a conviction, I believe.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ENSOR: Another problem intelligence officials say is that there are no smoking gun photos. And most of the evidence from multiple sources has to be woven together by an expert to be convincing. Still, Secretary Powell has promised to be comprehensive.

COOPER: Were you surprised by Joe Biden's comments there? I mean, pretty strong statement of support saying that if the evidence is so strong and if he was to bring it to a jury, they would be convinced.

ENSOR: I was a little surprised that he said that. He, of course, sees more of the evidence than will in fact be made public next week. He's got classified clearance. So, there may be things that won't be declassified and can't be because of protecting sources and methods that he is seeing. So he may be seeing a more convincing picture than we might see next week. COOPER: All right. David Ensor, thanks very much.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, do you ever notice how America just seems to rub some Europeans the wrong way? Well these days it's not just the French who don't like us. How is this going to impact a coalition against Iraq? That is coming up. And later we'll go to North Carolina, where a deadly explosion destroyed a plant that makes medical equipment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Well this one became a question around the office today. Name the European leaders other than Tony Blair who support the United States on Iraq? We are embarrassed to report it stumped way too many of us today. You can find the answer in a letter running in tomorrow's "Wall Street Journal." From the prime ministers of Spain, Portugal, Italy, Hungary, Poland, and Denmark, along with the president of the Czech Republic, all are pledging support for the United States. They're also swimming against the tide of popular opinion in much of Europe. Here's CNN's Walter Rodgers.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WALTER RODGERS, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This boxy (ph) image of the American president on his Texas ranch has little resonance in Europe. It just does not play well. Outside the United States, critics say George W. Bush has earned himself a reputation for arrogance that is hurting his country.

PIERS MORGAN, EDITOR "THE DAILY MIRROR": I sense a creeping anti-Americanism attached to the Bush administration based around this -- very much this you are either with us or against us mentality. I think people look at him and they think John Wayne. And we like John Wayne, we liked him in cowboy films. We don't like him running the world.

RODGERS: That allegation that the Bush administration had bullied its allies and friends or ignores them is a common complaint among Mr. Bush's critics. Jordan's King Abdullah reportedly privately complained that President Bush told him America is going to smash Saddam Hussein because "We are the mightiest nation in the world, and you are either with us or against us."

ABDEL BARI, ATWAN, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, AL QUDS: The Arabs see George W. Bush as arrogant and stupid at the same time. The Arabs liked Bill Clinton. They considered him wiser, reasonable, and a man who use his brains.

RODGERS: Others also say the president's perceived lack of intellectualism has earned him derision.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was caught not really knowing anything about European history or opera or art and so on. And the feeling is that he may be a great governor of Texas, but he shouldn't be in charge of the most powerful country in the world. RODGERS: Many analysts say America's awesome ability to project military power almost anywhere privately embarrasses Europeans exposing Europe's relative military impotence. Some believe Mr. Bush has become a lightning rod for this European resentment. Bush's strongest and most vocal supporter warns this criticism could get out of control.

TONY BLAIR, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: I think the worst thing that can happen -- I really believe this -- is the world divides up into the pro-American and anti-American forces.

RODGERS: While Blair's support of Bush represents the view point of some in Europe, there is a final aspect of this American president's character that seems to (UNINTELLIGIBLE) some a perceived messianic vision that his critics find fault with.

BUSH: The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world. It is god's gift to humanity.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He comes across as quite a -- not a demented Christian, but certainly somebody where the religious zeal creates a sea (ph). Almost like he's using his religion as some sort of an excuse for what he's doing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

RODGERS: Except for the religiosity, however, Europeans used to say the precise same things about Ronald Reagan 20 years ago, and with at least as much venom. The difference, however, is that history appears to have vindicated Mr. Reagan, whereas the history of George W. Bush has yet to be written. Walter Rodgers, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: More now on the view from Europe. We spoke earlier tonight with "TIME" magazine Editor-At-Large Michael Elliott, who has just returned from the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Michael, you were just in Davos at the World Economic Forum. How are Europeans viewing America right now, especially President Bush?

MICHAEL ELLIOTT, EDITOR-AT-LARGE, "TIME" MAGAZINE: Well in the first three days of the forum, Anderson, Thursday, Friday, Saturday last week, I had never seen a degree of intensity to the anti- Americanism that was on display. You're sort of used to the idea that when you come over to Europe you're going to get a degree of (UNINTELLIGIBLE), of (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and bean bags at Americans who are present.

But on those first three days of the conference, the intensity of it was extraordinary. And there is a real sense, I think, that President Bush just doesn't convince Europeans, or, for that matter, many other nationalities, all of whom were present at Davos. COOPER: And do you think the State of the Union did anything to convince those people?

ELLIOTT: I think it is a little early to tell. I mean, I thought it was a pretty good speech and he said something that everyone in Davos was saying was an absolute essential. And that is that somehow or other they're going to provide some evidence that the Iraqis absolutely are developing weapons of mass destruction, hiding them, and giving the inspectors the go around.

It was that question of evidence that was really the key thing at Davos. People kept saying, look, if we're going to go to war with Iraq, we've got to go with U.N. backing. The only we're going to get full scale international backing is if the Americans can absolutely demonstrate unequivocally that Saddam Hussein is up to no good. Where's the stuff, guys?

COOPER: But you know I think a lot of Americans will hear this and think, well, who cares? Who cares what the French think or what the Germans think. I mean, as you said, there is this long tradition of them viewing Americans as cowboys, and sort of poo-pooing American foreign policy. Why does it really matter?

ELLIOTT: Well, I think that's true, but the reasoning from the sensible people, from the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) anti-American crowd, goes something like this: the chances of a war in Iraq not happening, horrible consequences in the whole Middle East, not having consequences in terms of unleashing a new wave of terrorism, depend on a war having a broad international support and U.N. support as it can possibly have. That support will be more forthcoming if the U.S. can demonstrate that it has the evidence that Saddam is hiding weapons of mass destruction.

That's the sensible line. You know we can forget the people who just don't like American foreign policy and never have. But there are people who recognize that we got to do something about Saddam Hussein, want to do it with the broad international coalition. And insist that to get that coalition together we need more evidence that has been forthcoming so far.

COOPER: Britain's Prime Minister Tony Blair is going to be meeting with President Bush. He has been a staunch ally all along. He says he's willing to go if the Americans go. What kind of a risk is Blair taking?

ELLIOTT: I think he's taking a huge risk. He's taking a risk twice over, I would say. He's taking a risk inside Britain. His own party regards -- the war is deeply unpopular with his own party. And traditionally, British prime ministers are just as likely to lose office because they split their party (UNINTELLIGIBLE) lose an election.

His party hates the idea of going to war, especially without another U.N. resolution. And he is also sacrificing his position to establish himself, if you like, as the big man in Europe. Because, although he has some support in Spain and Italy, if he can't carry the French and Germans along with him, then he loses the status that he's trying to get for himself in Europe.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: But isn't it a two-sided gamble, though? If he wins, then arguably he and Britain can be the leaders of the European Union. Whereas if he loses, it can go to France and Germany.

ELLIOTT: You have to believe that there is a kind of tiny bit of cynic in him. There's a cynic in every politician -- we all know that -- that says let's be on the winning side here. And sure, if this is a clean war with a happy outcome, Blair is going to look very good.

I mean I think it is worth pointing out that Blair himself feels passionately about this. He has been talking about weapons of mass destruction falling into the hands of rogue states and terrorists since before September 11. I mean it is something that I've heard him talk about for many years.

So I mean he really does care about this. But obviously there are political calculations that come into play as well.

COOPER: All right. Michael Elliot, "TIME" magazine, appreciate it. Thanks very much.

ELLIOTT: All right, Anderson. Thanks. See you soon.

COOPER: Take care.

And coming up on NEWSNIGHT, we will go to North Carolina. What caused a deadly explosion at a medical equipment plant?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Well someone nearby put it this way, "It almost felt like an earthquake." "It" was an explosion at a medical equipment factory in eastern North Carolina today. One that was so powerful it blew doors open at houses miles away. In a sense, it was even felt all the way to Wall Street, where trading in the company's stock was halted.

Of course, for the small town of Kinston, the financial damage is at best an afterthought. They have lost some of their own and they are still searching for others at this hour.

We go back now to Brian Cabell in North Carolina -- Brian.

CABELL: Anderson, anyone who has ever covered a disaster like this knows that the casualty figures fluctuate wildly early on. That certainly has happened here today.

About four hours ago, we were told that eight people were confirmed dead, possibly many more. About two hours ago, we were told four were confirmed dead. And now, just about an hour ago, the mayor came out here and said only two are now confirmed dead, three people unaccounted for; 134 altogether were working out there earlier, six burned seriously, 14 injured less seriously. And a number of others have been treated and released.

Remarkable, really, if you take a look at the pictures from earlier on today and tonight as well, because the fire was huge, huge flames, billowing smoke, 134 people, as I said, working on the shift at that time, this at West Pharmaceutical Services. The fire apparently occurred in the rear of the building about 1:30 this afternoon. And after that, nothing but chaos.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACK LAMBERT, EYEWITNESS: It was pandemonium. You could feel it in the air, black smoke, people running out. It was just -- it was unbelievable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABELL: The plant has been here for some 12 years, according to the mayor. And, last October, just about four months ago, the Department of Labor here in North Carolina issued some 30 citations for a number of violations, 22 major violations, eight less major violations. They were fined some $9,000.

Now, as to the cause, we simply don't know at this point. The FBI is out there. The ATF is out there. A number of fire crews are out there. In fact, as of about an hour ago, 10 firemen were out amid the rubble looking for anybody who possibly might have survived or perhaps, Anderson, looking for bodies as well -- back to you.

COOPER: Brian, you might have said it in your report, but I might have missed it. Do you know how many people worked in that plant? And, if so, what sort of an economic impact is this going to have on the local community?

CABELL: A pretty major impact.

There's a couple hundred people who work here. This is one of the major industries in this town of some 23,000, 24,000, a tight-knit town, as you will find in much of the South. We talked to the mayor out here. He knows some of the people who work there. He knows some of the people who were injured. So, yes, this is a major economic impact, and, of course, a major impact on human beings as well.

Just about half a mile from me is a church where some families are waiting hoping for some good news.

COOPER: No doubt.

All right, Brian Cabell, thanks very much. Appreciate it.

A few stories from around the nation, beginning with a story very close to home: CNN founder Ted Turner said today he is stepping down as vice chairman of CNN's parent company, AOL Time Warner. The company says he wants to spend more time on philanthropy. The resignation takes effect at the annual shareholders meeting in May. Now, sources close to Turner said he has not yet decided whether to remain on the board as a director. And the question at hand in a Florida courtroom today: Where in the world is baby Eve? Skeptics, which are most of us, would say baby Eve, the alleged first human clone, doesn't exist. But the head of Clonaid, those alien-worshiping clone people, insists that Eve is alive and well and in Israel. The Clonaid chief was in court to answer petitions seeking a guardian for the child. The judge said that the baby, if the baby does exist at all and lives in Israel, would be outside his jurisdiction.

Still to come on NEWSNIGHT: the story of immigrants. But these are not immigrants trying to get to the United States. They're running away from the United States.

And later: the juiciest little trial in Texas, where the family of the victim supports the alleged murderer. And that's only part of the story.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Next on NEWSNIGHT: Immigrants running away from America, why are they so scared?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Well, many of the people you're about to meet, once has lived within sight of the Statue of Liberty. Tonight, they're living out a bitter upside-down version of the words carved in to that statue's base. After fleeing their native country and settling down here in the United States, they have become huddled masses all over again.

Here is CNN's Maria Hinojosa.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARIA HINOJOSA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It is dark at 6:00 a.m. and a frigid 5 below zero at the U.S.-Canadian border, where this group of Pakistanis is on the run. But, unlike many immigrants, they're braving the elements not to seek refuge in America, but from America.

They've packed their life's belongings in plastic bags and rollaway luggage, left behind places where they had lived most of their lives, had families, jobs, homes, even green cards.

(on camera): This freezing, lonely outpost on the U.S.-Canadian border used to see about 100 Pakistani immigrants each year. But just in the past month, already 200 have passed through here.

How many of you felt that you were scared to continue living in the United States?

(voice-over): It all began in mid-December, when the U.S. added Pakistanis to the list of those who must register with the INS.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Were you working illegally? HINOJOSA: People began to panic.

(on camera): You didn't want to register?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

HINOJOSA: You didn't want to register?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No one wanted to register.

(CROSSTALK)

HINOJOSA: Because they would send you back?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

HINOJOSA (voice-over): Pakistanis have showed up at a shelter near the Canadian border in Buffalo, New York. The shelter was meant for Latin American refugees, but 300 Pakistanis have arrived since the government announcement. And they keep coming.

ELIZABETH WOIKE, VIVE LA CASA REFUGE CENTER: The Pakistanis are very afraid of being deported to their country. They're afraid of being put in detention for an indeterminate amount of time and not being able to get out. They're afraid of being separated from their families.

HINOJOSA: The Canadian government insists there is only a slight increase in Pakistanis at some border crossings.

In Montreal, though, the YMCA is jammed with more than 300 who used to live in Brooklyn, Long Island, Milwaukee and Maryland.

(on camera): So, you guys were living in New York thinking that, at any time...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They would deport us.

HINOJOSA: They would deport you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Or send us to jail.

HINOJOSA (voice-over): The U.S. government has said the registrations are not aimed at deporting legitimate visitors. But the Pakistanis at this border station said they've heard too many stories of long detentions. Even on the Canadian side, some still hide their faces.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They don't care. If somebody has a green card, somebody has a passport, if somebody just called them, this guy does not look good, they just pick him up, no matter what. He just be here two months, three months, six months, one year. That's it.

HINOJOSA: And, if fear of the government isn't enough, some Pakistanis say America has become so unfriendly since September 11 that they would rather seek refuge elsewhere.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm a Muslim, basically. What they think is this. And the things are not the same that they used to be. And I'm from Pakistan. People think I'm from like Afghanistan or some stuff like that. So, they don't respect us.

HINOJOSA: Still, these Pakistanis are sad to leave America behind.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was in my senior year in high school. And I was going to graduate in four months. And I had to come over here and leave my school and everything. So, it messed up everything.

HINOJOSA: Everything new and unknown in the lives of these former Pakistani Americans.

Maria Hinojosa, CNN, on the U.S.-Canadian border.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: A few stories from around the globe tonight, beginning in southern Afghanistan: U.S. and allied troops are searching dozens of caves after the biggest battle between U.S. troops and anti- government forces in nearly a year. The fighters were holed up in a series of caves in the mountains along Pakistan's borders. The troops have found some weapons, bomb-making material, and mobile phones.

Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon began the process of feeling out possible coalition partners among different political parties, that after his Likud Party won big in elections yesterday. Israel also rejected an offer by Yasser Arafat to restart peace talks, a Sharon adviser once again saying Arafat is not relevant.

And what do you think? Is this a case separated at birth or what, Russian President Vladimir Putin and Dobby, the house elf from "Harry Potter"? Now, this one has been making the rounds on the Internet. Maybe you've seen it. Not everyone is happy about it, though. Apparently, a group of Russian lawyers want to take legal action against the producers of the "Harry Potter" films, saying the resemblance is no accident. Dobby, however, could not be reached for comment. So, sadly, we're still searching.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT: a bizarre trial under way in Houston. It is the case of the angry wife who ran over her cheating husband with the family Mercedes.

And the Iraqis pull out their secret weapon in the growing confrontation with the U.S.: satire.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Next on NEWSNIGHT: It sounds like something out of an episode of "Dallas," but, hey, this trial is in Houston.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Well, tonight, we couldn't resist a look at the story of Clara Harris.

Don't pretend you don't know the story: an aging Texas beauty queen who discovers her husband is having an affair, confronts the husband at a fancy hotel, has an all-out brawl with the mistress, according to hotel employees, then runs over her husband with her fancy car.

Now, I got to tell you, this has "Lifetime" original movie written all over it. I'm thinking Susan Lucci to star. If she's unavailable, maybe Joan Collins. I'm thinking maybe Melissa Rivers for the stepdaughter. "Murder by Mercedes," I think that's what it's going to be called. The last half hour is still being written, however, in a Texas courtroom. Was it a calculated hit or a crime of passion?

We wanted to get the latest and the flavor of the case, a decidedly Texas flavor, from Skip Hollandsworth of "Texas Monthly" magazine. He is in Dallas.

Skip, thanks for being with us.

SKIP HOLLANDSWORTH, EXECUTIVE EDITOR, "TEXAS MONTHLY": Thanks.

COOPER: It is easy to make light of this story. Obviously, there was a death involved. And people's lives are forever changed, especially the young woman who took the stand today. What came out in court today?

HOLLANDSWORTH: Well, you're right about one thing. This thing has riveted people, because it is just so dramatic and so sensational and, at times, so preposterous that you have to think it is almost cinematic.

It's like a bad film noir movie, where this wife confronts the mistress and her husband. The husband runs off with the mistress to safety. And then the wife runs him over, jumps out of her car, and then cradles his body and begs him to leave. No film noir director would even use that scene.

But the problem is, is that there's an underlying tragedy here. And it came out today, which is this 16-, now 17-year-old daughter of David Harris from his first marriage.

COOPER: This is Lindsey Harris.

HOLLANDSWORTH: Lindsey, who happened to be in the car with Clara when she decided to run over the husband.

And it hit -- Lindsey saw David's -- her father's body launched 25 feet in front of the car on the first impact and then watched Clara gun the engine and run over him two or three more times. COOPER: And she gave some pretty damaging testimony today. She basically said, my stepmother knew what she was doing. She wanted to kill him.

HOLLANDSWORTH: After the confrontation in the hotel lobby, one where Clara felt this whole sense of betrayal again, she did say, according to Lindsey, to Lindsey in the car: I could kill him and no one would care. I could kill him and get away with it.

And then she guns the engine. And I don't know if this has come out yet, but I was told that Lindsey at one point opens the door and sticks her foot out as the car is going after her father a second time and, almost in this bad imitation of a "Flintstones" cartoon, tries to stop the car with her foot, screaming at Clara to stop this, stop this. And so, suddenly, all this humor turns to this searing tragedy.

COOPER: We're going to play some of the surveillance video that has been presented in court so far while we're talking, just so you know what we're playing underneath you, in case you can't see it.

I guess that is the car. Not only did she run over -- allegedly swipe her husband. She then ran over him several times. We're seeing the car go around and around. I assume that's over her husband's body.

HOLLANDSWORTH: And what Lindsey said today is that she knew when the car was going over one of those little small medians that divided the parking lots in the hotel and she knew when the car was going over her father.

And this poor 16-year-old, who went out with her stepmother, at her stepmother's request, to go look for him, to keep him away from the mistress, suddenly is part of this murder that is never going to leave her.

COOPER: No doubt. But what is interesting, though, is the response to this story. Clara Harris is getting a lot of support, is she not?

HOLLANDSWORTH: When I first started working on this story, I was amazed at the way people, especially women, sympathized with her, because she put into reality a fantasy that a lot of women have who feel betrayed like this.

And one of the darkly surreal and comic moments in this case was during jury selection, when two women who had been picked for the larger jury pool admitted to prosecutors that they had -- one of them had tried to run over her husband when she found out he was having an affair.

COOPER: Wait. Two people who were going to be on the jury basically were taken off the jury because....

HOLLANDSWORTH: Well, they were taken off the jury because they both said that they had tried to hurt their husband. One of the women said she actually nicked him with her car. COOPER: And, remarkably, the parents of the man who was killed are now siding with his wife.

HOLLANDSWORTH: There was a time this past week where I thought, this trial is becoming a version of this movie "Chicago," where the defense attorney is playing Richard Gere and Clara Harris, who breaks into these distraught sobs like every 15 minutes during the trial, is now Roxie, the Renee Zellweger character.

And they're going to try to create this heartrending, tear- jerking portrait of this betrayed wife. And they're having these dramatic scenes of her walking out of the courtroom arm in arm with the parents of the dead husband. And the thing has taken on this kind of strangely comical flavor.

COOPER: All right. It is fascinating case. The other thing is George Parnham, Clara's attorney, was the attorney for Andrea Yates.

But there is a lot to talk about, Skip. We appreciate you coming in. Skip Hollandsworth with "Texas Monthly," thanks a lot for being with us.

HOLLANDSWORTH: Thanks.

COOPER: Coming up on NEWSNIGHT: what the Iraqis saw in not the State of the Union address, but the show making fun of the U.S. and Britain.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Now, you should keep something in mind with our "Segment Seven" tonight: Iraq is a place where there is one guy deciding on behalf of his oppressed people what is fun. And if the reports are to be believed, Saddam's idea of a rocking Saturday night is sitting around watching "The Old Man and the Sea" over and over again. It's a place where the must-see TV of the day may be an endless loop of Saddam firing off his favorite rifle.

So, keeping that in mind, here's a look at some of the latest political satire the way they do it in Iraq. Let's just say writers for "Saturday Night Live" can rest easy in their job security tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS (through translator): Do we not forge lies together? Why didn't you tell us about this lie before you made it public? Why were we not informed?

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR (through translator): Which one? Thatcher, which one?

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS (through translator): Yes, you know that lie. UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR (through translator): Sure, but you know it's not one or two lies. We have managed our lives lying. Remind me which one. I must have forgotten it.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS (through translator): This Rumsfeld guy, what does he do?

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR (through translator): Don't you know what he does? He's our secretary of defense.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS (through translator): If he is the secretary of defense, then why do you let him get out there and say whatever he likes? How could he say that European minds are old and backwards?

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR (through translator): And why do you care?

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS (through translator): Well, isn't England part of Europe?

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR (through translator): Thatcher, no, no, no. You're in Europe, but you have American brains.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS (through translator): Yes, you're right. What about the other thing he says?

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR (through translator): Oh, you mean about what he said about the new alliance?

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS (through translator): He says there are 12 countries in the alliance. Where did he get those 12 countries from? Didn't we forget that there is only one country with us?

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR (through translator): What are you talking about?

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR (through translator): Take it easy, Thatcher. Are you saying that we are alone?

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS (through translator): We are Britain and you are the United States. And our friends are the Zionists.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR (through translator): Excellent.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR (through translator): Thatcher, why are you making it complicated? If you count them, they will come to 12.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS (through translator): How?

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR (through translator): Count with me: Israel, Zionist entity, Britain, England, United Kingdom, London, America, the United States and us and them.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR (through translator): Your majesty, have you heard yesterday about what I said in the press conference, that we have documents proving that Iraq has nuclear weapons? UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS (through translator): This is absolutely true. Where are those documents now?

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR (through translator): Did you forget, Your Majesty? Did you really believe this? We always say we have documents and we never have anything. This is just a lie, like everything that we've said before.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS (through translator): Well, what about those 12 countries you talked about? Do they really exist? Who are those 12 countries?

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR (through translator): Based on your question, Your Majesty, we will do a show. The question is, what are those 12 countries? And whoever knows it should tell Rumsfeld.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Why is Queen Elizabeth smoking? I don't get it.

That's it for us on NEWSNIGHT. See you tomorrow.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired January 29, 2003 - 22:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST: Good evening, everyone. I'm Anderson Cooper. Aaron Brown is on assignment and he'll be back on Monday.
Tonight we track the fallout, domestic and international, from the president's State of the Union address. Leave it to me to seize on what is a probably a relatively unimportant detail in last night's coverage of the speech, but, hey, the important details are all going to be dealt with by others in just a few moments. I have this one entirely to myself, I think.

The detail is a word. A word I didn't know was used outside of rock climbing circles. And outside rock climbing circles is where I spend 100 percent of my time. The word is "overhang." I heard it first out of the mouth of a very smart CNN colleague and I was impressed.

It is the best kind of description, after all. One that forcefully conjures up a picture, in this case, of an overhead shelf that juts out so far it casts everything below it in deep shadow. The problem of Iraq, it was said, was overhanging the State of the Union speech.

But then I began to hear a lot of other people talking about overhangs. The economy was another overhang, and there was an overhang reference in the paper this morning. So there are two possibilities here. Maybe one really smart person used the term first, and it was quickly adopted by others who realized how apt it was. Things do propagate that quickly these days.

But there was another possibility, and this is the one that kind of worries me. The possibility that there is actually a "word of the night" mailing list or a "word of the week" mailing list, and I'm not on it. I'll try to keep this anxiety from overhanging the broadcast tonight, but if the manager of that mailing list happens to be listening tonight, call me -- or at least add my name to the list. I can't be sitting here using yesterday's words.

And so we begin tonight with "The Whip" at the White House, where the campaign to convince the world about Iraq is already at full throttle. Senior White House correspondent John King is covering that.

John, the headline, please. JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, the president publicly acknowledged today what he called an honest debate in the country over whether war is the right choice when it comes to Iraq. But Mr. Bush also said he believes containment will not work when it comes to Saddam Hussein. The White House says we are in, "a final window of diplomacy" that might last perhaps three weeks, not much longer -- Anderson.

COOPER: All right. Back to you in a moment. A busy day at the United Nations.

And for our own Richard Roth, who is there, Richard, the headline.

RICHARD ROTH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, first they waited for Blix. Now they wait for Powell at the Security Council. After the State of the Union address, ambassadors asked -- brace yourself for a cliche -- where's the beef?

COOPER: All right. Two more questions tonight. What intelligence does the U.S. have involving Iraq? And how much will it share to help make its case? That is what David Ensor is looking at tonight.

David, a headline, please.

DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well those are the questions, Anderson. And there is a spirited debate still underway between intelligence officers and the political people in the Bush administration over how much classified intelligence should be declassified -- can be safely declassified, so as to make the president's case. Colin Powell will have to walk a fine line at the U.N. next week.

COOPER: No doubt. David, back to you in a moment. On to a terrible factory explosion in North Carolina. Brian Cabell is on that for us.

Brian, the headline.

BRIAN CABELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, a huge fire, a huge explosion here in Kinston, North Carolina today. But the casualty figures, as we're getting them now, not quite as bad as we might have expected earlier in the afternoon. Now we have two confirmed dead, three unaccounted for, and about 20 wounded fairly seriously. Not as bad as we expected. The cause of the blast still unknown -- Anderson.

COOPER: All right. Spread some good news there, Brian. Back with you, back with all of you in a moment.

Also, coming up tonight on NEWSNIGHT, January 29, 2003, the response from some Pakistanis here in the U.S. ordered to register with immigration authorities. Their response: pick up and leave. And it's become such a controversy that even the secretary of state has gotten an earful from Pakistani diplomats. Sort of a twist on the phrase "Don't mess with Texas." A spurned wife in Houston is on trial for murdering her cheating husband by running him over a couple times. We'll have the latest on the case of Clara Harris.

And political satire Iraqi style. When Saddam Hussein says "laugh," you better. That is our "Segment Seven" tonight.

We have a lot to cover tonight. We start off with the speech. And judging by the reaction it got, some might argue President Bush buried the lead. Nearly all the talk today centered not on Medicare or hydrogen cars, or even the state of the fragile economy. The focus was on squarely on the second half of his speech, the part about Iraq.

Last night, President Bush kicked off what the White House is calling the final phase of diplomacy in the confrontation with Saddam Hussein. Today in Michigan, the words on the backdrop behind the president read "Strengthening Medicare," but the headline, once again, Iraq.

Here again, CNN's John King.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KING (voice-over): On the road the day after the big speech, healthcare the major focus. But also a direct challenge to the United Nations.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The risks of doing nothing. The risk of assuming the best from Saddam Hussein. It's just not a risk worth taking. So I call upon the world to come together and insist that this dangerous man disarm.

KING: Now comes another phase of difficult diplomacy. A window of three weeks or so to lobby skeptics. Next Wednesday, Secretary of State Powell will make a presentation to the Security Council, including newly declassified intelligence the White House says proves Iraq is spying on U.N. teams. Racing to move evidence and sanitize sites just before inspectors arrive, and has ongoing ties to al Qaeda.

COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: It will be I think a rather comprehensive presentation.

KING: Russia is open to supporting military action if Secretary Powell can show Iraq is obstructing inspections.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We would like to see undeniable proof, OK.

KING: Key council members, Germany and France, have already seen much of the intelligence and still want to give inspectors more time. A major U.S. goal in making a public presentation is to pressure them and warn their credibility is at stake, because the Security Council unanimously agreed in Resolution 1441 to give Iraq a final opportunity to disarm. But warned of serious consequences if it did not cooperate fully.

BUSH: I want the United Nations to be something other than an empty debating society.

KING: The president will compare notes over the next three days with two close allies: Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi and British Prime Minister Tony Blair.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KING: And the meeting with Saudi Arabia's foreign minister, Prince Saud al-Faisal, also suddenly added to the president's schedule tonight. That meeting will be tomorrow. The Saudis requested it, we are told, because they were concerned with the tough language in the president's State of the Union address. The Saudis want Mr. Bush to give diplomacy more time, especially in an effort led by their government to convince Saddam Hussein to step down and go into exile.

No one high in the Bush administration believes that will happen. That the Iraqi leader will leave voluntarily, but they will have the meeting with the Saudi foreign minister here at the White House tomorrow. And Secretary of State Powell did say today that if Saddam would step aside, the United States would help him find a home elsewhere. And that perhaps the showdown could be ratcheted down a bit -- Anderson.

COOPER: John, I am interested in knowing from your discussions with people in the White House, how concerned are people who work in the White House about the opposition to the president's policies both domestically and from our European allies?

KING: Well they certainly are concerned again to hear prominent Democrats like Senator Robert Byrd of West Virginia, like Senator Edward Kennedy of Massachusetts saying the president should come back to Congress and seek authorization before any military action. The White House says Congress already had a vote on this, but they do not like domestic opposition rising up at the very moment.

The president is trying once again to rally international support. They believe their Democrats simply don't have the votes and the president's position will prevail. On the world stage they say this is very much like the debate to get the inspectors into Iraq in the first place. They believe France and others will be reluctant until the very end.

Here in the White House they believe in the end they will once again win the debate. But they say one of the elements in that argument in trying to win the debate is convincing France, Russia and others that if they don't get on board they will be on the sidelines when the president leads a coalition to war in Iraq.

COOPER: All right. John King at the White House, thanks very much.

As John just mentioned, the president today ran into stiff opposition from two Senate veterans: Democrats Robert Byrd of West Virginia and Edward Kennedy of Massachusetts. This afternoon, on the Senate floor, Senator Byrd called on the president to seek Security Council approval before going to war. A few minutes later, Senator Kennedy said he will introduce a measure requiring the president to seek new congressional approval for military action in Iraq. Congress already approved military action once before.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. EDWARD KENNEDY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: If we rush to pull the trigger against Iraq, we will invite catastrophe and condemnation. America, which has long been a beacon of freedom for people around the world, will turn into a symbol of brute force and aggression. The world may come to see us a dangerous rogue state needing to be contained and deterred.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Well the senator's proposal is unlikely to get anywhere. The Democratic leadership has not embraced it, and Republicans are lining up against the idea.

We move now to the U.N. It is still unclear whether the United States will seek U.N. permission to take military action. Unclear too what the answer would be. Right now, after a day of arguing the case, the answer seems to be no. The hope is things will change next week, when Secretary of State Powell is expected to bring more evidence to bear. With that, here again, CNN's Richard Roth.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROTH (voice-over): The weapons inspectors return to answer questions. The 15 ambassadors on the Security Council were on hand, and so was an overflow media crowd. But it was a man that wasn't there that dominated the Security Council Iraq debate. Colin Powell is coming next Wednesday, and until then, one diplomat said, we're just treading water.

The secretary of state plans to reveal intelligence on Iraqi maneuvers to avoid detection of weapons of mass destruction. And that's just what council members wanted, the U.S. to finally provide proof.

GUNTER PLEUGER, GERMAN AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: We welcomed the announcement of President Bush that Secretary of State Colin Powell will come to Security Council next Wednesday to supply new evidence that will certainly help the inspectors to do their job properly and more effectively.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Any country that has any new information whatsoever, they should deliver it to UNMOVIC and to IAEA to investigate that.

ROTH: Iraq says President Bush shouldn't bother sending Powell.

MOHAMMED ALDOURI, IRAQI AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: You can accuse as much as you like, but you cannot provide one piece of evidence.

ROTH: But the Russians want undeniable proof.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What evidence would Colin Powell have to present to convince you that war is warranted?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Convincing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How convincing? What exactly?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, are you seriously asking me this question?

JOHN NEGROPONTE, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: We think the time for diplomatic action is narrowing. The diplomatic window is closing. We feel that the time for a decision, decision making is fast approaching.

ROTH: But for now, most of the Security Council believes the inspectors are better than military force.

JEAN-MARC DE LA SABLIERE, FRENCH AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: The inspections are progressing without major incident, and they are already producing significant results.

JEREMY GREENSTOCK, BRITISH AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: Yes, there are members of the council who are asking for time, but it isn't a matter of time. It's a matter of whether Iraq realizes the game is up, or whether it is continuing to try to keep the inspectors at bay.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROTH: And inside the closed-door briefing by the inspectors, a rocket warhead was tested by the inspectors outside of the country. It tested negative for any chemical agent. Other news, Hans Blix and Mohamed ElBaradei canceling a trip to Germany next week so that they can hear Powell's appearance. And Powell apparently will be an open session with the Security Council for most of the debate.

And in a seven-page series of notes to ambassadors, Iraq said Blix's briefing on Monday was really based on political judgments -- Anderson.

COOPER: Richard, you said it was going to be an open session. Does that mean open to the public as well, televised?

ROTH: Well, it will be televised, though it still could change. And perhaps some sensitive parts would be behind closed doors.

COOPER: All right. Richard Roth at the U.N. tonight, thanks very much.

Exactly what Secretary Powell is expected to bring to the U.N. next Wednesday, that is the question CNN's David Ensor has been looking into.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ENSOR (voice-over): Sources say the evidence from Secretary Powell will likely include surveillance imagery, showing Iraqis clearing out sites just prior to the arrival of U.N. arms inspectors. And possibly images too of the secret, mobile biological weapons labs the U.S. says the Iraqis use to keep ahead of inspectors. Powell will also include information from prisoner interrogations and from Iraqi defectors.

POWELL: You can be sure that we will be as forthcoming as we can next week, but also mindful of sources and methods.

ENSOR: Sources and methods. There is the rub for the CIA. They are the holy grail of U.S. intelligence to be protected at all costs. That's why, officials say, there is a spirited debate over how much to reveal from voice communications intercepted by the U.S. National Security Agency and from human agents, Iraqis working for the CIA. What if, for example, Powell reveals something known about a specific facility that could only come from one of a few employees there?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What does Saddam do to anybody he has doubts about or mistrusts or feels offended by? He kills them. I mean, you know, kills their family.

ENSOR: And when it comes to interceptions of Iraqi communications, a cautionary tale. When a story came out that Osama bin Laden's satellite phone was being monitored, he stopped using it. And U.S. intelligence lost an invaluable source.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you disclose your capacity to intercept certain kinds of communication, well, you know, the target, the bad guy will not use it any more.

ENSOR: How convincing the evidence will be will depend in part on how the internal debate about what to release is resolved. But one senior Democrat who has seen the intelligence says the evidence of an ongoing chemical and biological weapons program in Iraq is compelling.

SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN (D), DELAWARE: I am convinced chemically and biologically there is no such evidence on the nuclear side. And it's the kind of evidence that if I was able to go to a jury I'd get a conviction, I believe.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ENSOR: Another problem intelligence officials say is that there are no smoking gun photos. And most of the evidence from multiple sources has to be woven together by an expert to be convincing. Still, Secretary Powell has promised to be comprehensive.

COOPER: Were you surprised by Joe Biden's comments there? I mean, pretty strong statement of support saying that if the evidence is so strong and if he was to bring it to a jury, they would be convinced.

ENSOR: I was a little surprised that he said that. He, of course, sees more of the evidence than will in fact be made public next week. He's got classified clearance. So, there may be things that won't be declassified and can't be because of protecting sources and methods that he is seeing. So he may be seeing a more convincing picture than we might see next week. COOPER: All right. David Ensor, thanks very much.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, do you ever notice how America just seems to rub some Europeans the wrong way? Well these days it's not just the French who don't like us. How is this going to impact a coalition against Iraq? That is coming up. And later we'll go to North Carolina, where a deadly explosion destroyed a plant that makes medical equipment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Well this one became a question around the office today. Name the European leaders other than Tony Blair who support the United States on Iraq? We are embarrassed to report it stumped way too many of us today. You can find the answer in a letter running in tomorrow's "Wall Street Journal." From the prime ministers of Spain, Portugal, Italy, Hungary, Poland, and Denmark, along with the president of the Czech Republic, all are pledging support for the United States. They're also swimming against the tide of popular opinion in much of Europe. Here's CNN's Walter Rodgers.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WALTER RODGERS, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This boxy (ph) image of the American president on his Texas ranch has little resonance in Europe. It just does not play well. Outside the United States, critics say George W. Bush has earned himself a reputation for arrogance that is hurting his country.

PIERS MORGAN, EDITOR "THE DAILY MIRROR": I sense a creeping anti-Americanism attached to the Bush administration based around this -- very much this you are either with us or against us mentality. I think people look at him and they think John Wayne. And we like John Wayne, we liked him in cowboy films. We don't like him running the world.

RODGERS: That allegation that the Bush administration had bullied its allies and friends or ignores them is a common complaint among Mr. Bush's critics. Jordan's King Abdullah reportedly privately complained that President Bush told him America is going to smash Saddam Hussein because "We are the mightiest nation in the world, and you are either with us or against us."

ABDEL BARI, ATWAN, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, AL QUDS: The Arabs see George W. Bush as arrogant and stupid at the same time. The Arabs liked Bill Clinton. They considered him wiser, reasonable, and a man who use his brains.

RODGERS: Others also say the president's perceived lack of intellectualism has earned him derision.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was caught not really knowing anything about European history or opera or art and so on. And the feeling is that he may be a great governor of Texas, but he shouldn't be in charge of the most powerful country in the world. RODGERS: Many analysts say America's awesome ability to project military power almost anywhere privately embarrasses Europeans exposing Europe's relative military impotence. Some believe Mr. Bush has become a lightning rod for this European resentment. Bush's strongest and most vocal supporter warns this criticism could get out of control.

TONY BLAIR, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: I think the worst thing that can happen -- I really believe this -- is the world divides up into the pro-American and anti-American forces.

RODGERS: While Blair's support of Bush represents the view point of some in Europe, there is a final aspect of this American president's character that seems to (UNINTELLIGIBLE) some a perceived messianic vision that his critics find fault with.

BUSH: The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world. It is god's gift to humanity.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He comes across as quite a -- not a demented Christian, but certainly somebody where the religious zeal creates a sea (ph). Almost like he's using his religion as some sort of an excuse for what he's doing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

RODGERS: Except for the religiosity, however, Europeans used to say the precise same things about Ronald Reagan 20 years ago, and with at least as much venom. The difference, however, is that history appears to have vindicated Mr. Reagan, whereas the history of George W. Bush has yet to be written. Walter Rodgers, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: More now on the view from Europe. We spoke earlier tonight with "TIME" magazine Editor-At-Large Michael Elliott, who has just returned from the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Michael, you were just in Davos at the World Economic Forum. How are Europeans viewing America right now, especially President Bush?

MICHAEL ELLIOTT, EDITOR-AT-LARGE, "TIME" MAGAZINE: Well in the first three days of the forum, Anderson, Thursday, Friday, Saturday last week, I had never seen a degree of intensity to the anti- Americanism that was on display. You're sort of used to the idea that when you come over to Europe you're going to get a degree of (UNINTELLIGIBLE), of (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and bean bags at Americans who are present.

But on those first three days of the conference, the intensity of it was extraordinary. And there is a real sense, I think, that President Bush just doesn't convince Europeans, or, for that matter, many other nationalities, all of whom were present at Davos. COOPER: And do you think the State of the Union did anything to convince those people?

ELLIOTT: I think it is a little early to tell. I mean, I thought it was a pretty good speech and he said something that everyone in Davos was saying was an absolute essential. And that is that somehow or other they're going to provide some evidence that the Iraqis absolutely are developing weapons of mass destruction, hiding them, and giving the inspectors the go around.

It was that question of evidence that was really the key thing at Davos. People kept saying, look, if we're going to go to war with Iraq, we've got to go with U.N. backing. The only we're going to get full scale international backing is if the Americans can absolutely demonstrate unequivocally that Saddam Hussein is up to no good. Where's the stuff, guys?

COOPER: But you know I think a lot of Americans will hear this and think, well, who cares? Who cares what the French think or what the Germans think. I mean, as you said, there is this long tradition of them viewing Americans as cowboys, and sort of poo-pooing American foreign policy. Why does it really matter?

ELLIOTT: Well, I think that's true, but the reasoning from the sensible people, from the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) anti-American crowd, goes something like this: the chances of a war in Iraq not happening, horrible consequences in the whole Middle East, not having consequences in terms of unleashing a new wave of terrorism, depend on a war having a broad international support and U.N. support as it can possibly have. That support will be more forthcoming if the U.S. can demonstrate that it has the evidence that Saddam is hiding weapons of mass destruction.

That's the sensible line. You know we can forget the people who just don't like American foreign policy and never have. But there are people who recognize that we got to do something about Saddam Hussein, want to do it with the broad international coalition. And insist that to get that coalition together we need more evidence that has been forthcoming so far.

COOPER: Britain's Prime Minister Tony Blair is going to be meeting with President Bush. He has been a staunch ally all along. He says he's willing to go if the Americans go. What kind of a risk is Blair taking?

ELLIOTT: I think he's taking a huge risk. He's taking a risk twice over, I would say. He's taking a risk inside Britain. His own party regards -- the war is deeply unpopular with his own party. And traditionally, British prime ministers are just as likely to lose office because they split their party (UNINTELLIGIBLE) lose an election.

His party hates the idea of going to war, especially without another U.N. resolution. And he is also sacrificing his position to establish himself, if you like, as the big man in Europe. Because, although he has some support in Spain and Italy, if he can't carry the French and Germans along with him, then he loses the status that he's trying to get for himself in Europe.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: But isn't it a two-sided gamble, though? If he wins, then arguably he and Britain can be the leaders of the European Union. Whereas if he loses, it can go to France and Germany.

ELLIOTT: You have to believe that there is a kind of tiny bit of cynic in him. There's a cynic in every politician -- we all know that -- that says let's be on the winning side here. And sure, if this is a clean war with a happy outcome, Blair is going to look very good.

I mean I think it is worth pointing out that Blair himself feels passionately about this. He has been talking about weapons of mass destruction falling into the hands of rogue states and terrorists since before September 11. I mean it is something that I've heard him talk about for many years.

So I mean he really does care about this. But obviously there are political calculations that come into play as well.

COOPER: All right. Michael Elliot, "TIME" magazine, appreciate it. Thanks very much.

ELLIOTT: All right, Anderson. Thanks. See you soon.

COOPER: Take care.

And coming up on NEWSNIGHT, we will go to North Carolina. What caused a deadly explosion at a medical equipment plant?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Well someone nearby put it this way, "It almost felt like an earthquake." "It" was an explosion at a medical equipment factory in eastern North Carolina today. One that was so powerful it blew doors open at houses miles away. In a sense, it was even felt all the way to Wall Street, where trading in the company's stock was halted.

Of course, for the small town of Kinston, the financial damage is at best an afterthought. They have lost some of their own and they are still searching for others at this hour.

We go back now to Brian Cabell in North Carolina -- Brian.

CABELL: Anderson, anyone who has ever covered a disaster like this knows that the casualty figures fluctuate wildly early on. That certainly has happened here today.

About four hours ago, we were told that eight people were confirmed dead, possibly many more. About two hours ago, we were told four were confirmed dead. And now, just about an hour ago, the mayor came out here and said only two are now confirmed dead, three people unaccounted for; 134 altogether were working out there earlier, six burned seriously, 14 injured less seriously. And a number of others have been treated and released.

Remarkable, really, if you take a look at the pictures from earlier on today and tonight as well, because the fire was huge, huge flames, billowing smoke, 134 people, as I said, working on the shift at that time, this at West Pharmaceutical Services. The fire apparently occurred in the rear of the building about 1:30 this afternoon. And after that, nothing but chaos.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACK LAMBERT, EYEWITNESS: It was pandemonium. You could feel it in the air, black smoke, people running out. It was just -- it was unbelievable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABELL: The plant has been here for some 12 years, according to the mayor. And, last October, just about four months ago, the Department of Labor here in North Carolina issued some 30 citations for a number of violations, 22 major violations, eight less major violations. They were fined some $9,000.

Now, as to the cause, we simply don't know at this point. The FBI is out there. The ATF is out there. A number of fire crews are out there. In fact, as of about an hour ago, 10 firemen were out amid the rubble looking for anybody who possibly might have survived or perhaps, Anderson, looking for bodies as well -- back to you.

COOPER: Brian, you might have said it in your report, but I might have missed it. Do you know how many people worked in that plant? And, if so, what sort of an economic impact is this going to have on the local community?

CABELL: A pretty major impact.

There's a couple hundred people who work here. This is one of the major industries in this town of some 23,000, 24,000, a tight-knit town, as you will find in much of the South. We talked to the mayor out here. He knows some of the people who work there. He knows some of the people who were injured. So, yes, this is a major economic impact, and, of course, a major impact on human beings as well.

Just about half a mile from me is a church where some families are waiting hoping for some good news.

COOPER: No doubt.

All right, Brian Cabell, thanks very much. Appreciate it.

A few stories from around the nation, beginning with a story very close to home: CNN founder Ted Turner said today he is stepping down as vice chairman of CNN's parent company, AOL Time Warner. The company says he wants to spend more time on philanthropy. The resignation takes effect at the annual shareholders meeting in May. Now, sources close to Turner said he has not yet decided whether to remain on the board as a director. And the question at hand in a Florida courtroom today: Where in the world is baby Eve? Skeptics, which are most of us, would say baby Eve, the alleged first human clone, doesn't exist. But the head of Clonaid, those alien-worshiping clone people, insists that Eve is alive and well and in Israel. The Clonaid chief was in court to answer petitions seeking a guardian for the child. The judge said that the baby, if the baby does exist at all and lives in Israel, would be outside his jurisdiction.

Still to come on NEWSNIGHT: the story of immigrants. But these are not immigrants trying to get to the United States. They're running away from the United States.

And later: the juiciest little trial in Texas, where the family of the victim supports the alleged murderer. And that's only part of the story.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Next on NEWSNIGHT: Immigrants running away from America, why are they so scared?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Well, many of the people you're about to meet, once has lived within sight of the Statue of Liberty. Tonight, they're living out a bitter upside-down version of the words carved in to that statue's base. After fleeing their native country and settling down here in the United States, they have become huddled masses all over again.

Here is CNN's Maria Hinojosa.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARIA HINOJOSA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It is dark at 6:00 a.m. and a frigid 5 below zero at the U.S.-Canadian border, where this group of Pakistanis is on the run. But, unlike many immigrants, they're braving the elements not to seek refuge in America, but from America.

They've packed their life's belongings in plastic bags and rollaway luggage, left behind places where they had lived most of their lives, had families, jobs, homes, even green cards.

(on camera): This freezing, lonely outpost on the U.S.-Canadian border used to see about 100 Pakistani immigrants each year. But just in the past month, already 200 have passed through here.

How many of you felt that you were scared to continue living in the United States?

(voice-over): It all began in mid-December, when the U.S. added Pakistanis to the list of those who must register with the INS.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Were you working illegally? HINOJOSA: People began to panic.

(on camera): You didn't want to register?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

HINOJOSA: You didn't want to register?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No one wanted to register.

(CROSSTALK)

HINOJOSA: Because they would send you back?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

HINOJOSA (voice-over): Pakistanis have showed up at a shelter near the Canadian border in Buffalo, New York. The shelter was meant for Latin American refugees, but 300 Pakistanis have arrived since the government announcement. And they keep coming.

ELIZABETH WOIKE, VIVE LA CASA REFUGE CENTER: The Pakistanis are very afraid of being deported to their country. They're afraid of being put in detention for an indeterminate amount of time and not being able to get out. They're afraid of being separated from their families.

HINOJOSA: The Canadian government insists there is only a slight increase in Pakistanis at some border crossings.

In Montreal, though, the YMCA is jammed with more than 300 who used to live in Brooklyn, Long Island, Milwaukee and Maryland.

(on camera): So, you guys were living in New York thinking that, at any time...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They would deport us.

HINOJOSA: They would deport you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Or send us to jail.

HINOJOSA (voice-over): The U.S. government has said the registrations are not aimed at deporting legitimate visitors. But the Pakistanis at this border station said they've heard too many stories of long detentions. Even on the Canadian side, some still hide their faces.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They don't care. If somebody has a green card, somebody has a passport, if somebody just called them, this guy does not look good, they just pick him up, no matter what. He just be here two months, three months, six months, one year. That's it.

HINOJOSA: And, if fear of the government isn't enough, some Pakistanis say America has become so unfriendly since September 11 that they would rather seek refuge elsewhere.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm a Muslim, basically. What they think is this. And the things are not the same that they used to be. And I'm from Pakistan. People think I'm from like Afghanistan or some stuff like that. So, they don't respect us.

HINOJOSA: Still, these Pakistanis are sad to leave America behind.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was in my senior year in high school. And I was going to graduate in four months. And I had to come over here and leave my school and everything. So, it messed up everything.

HINOJOSA: Everything new and unknown in the lives of these former Pakistani Americans.

Maria Hinojosa, CNN, on the U.S.-Canadian border.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: A few stories from around the globe tonight, beginning in southern Afghanistan: U.S. and allied troops are searching dozens of caves after the biggest battle between U.S. troops and anti- government forces in nearly a year. The fighters were holed up in a series of caves in the mountains along Pakistan's borders. The troops have found some weapons, bomb-making material, and mobile phones.

Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon began the process of feeling out possible coalition partners among different political parties, that after his Likud Party won big in elections yesterday. Israel also rejected an offer by Yasser Arafat to restart peace talks, a Sharon adviser once again saying Arafat is not relevant.

And what do you think? Is this a case separated at birth or what, Russian President Vladimir Putin and Dobby, the house elf from "Harry Potter"? Now, this one has been making the rounds on the Internet. Maybe you've seen it. Not everyone is happy about it, though. Apparently, a group of Russian lawyers want to take legal action against the producers of the "Harry Potter" films, saying the resemblance is no accident. Dobby, however, could not be reached for comment. So, sadly, we're still searching.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT: a bizarre trial under way in Houston. It is the case of the angry wife who ran over her cheating husband with the family Mercedes.

And the Iraqis pull out their secret weapon in the growing confrontation with the U.S.: satire.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Next on NEWSNIGHT: It sounds like something out of an episode of "Dallas," but, hey, this trial is in Houston.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Well, tonight, we couldn't resist a look at the story of Clara Harris.

Don't pretend you don't know the story: an aging Texas beauty queen who discovers her husband is having an affair, confronts the husband at a fancy hotel, has an all-out brawl with the mistress, according to hotel employees, then runs over her husband with her fancy car.

Now, I got to tell you, this has "Lifetime" original movie written all over it. I'm thinking Susan Lucci to star. If she's unavailable, maybe Joan Collins. I'm thinking maybe Melissa Rivers for the stepdaughter. "Murder by Mercedes," I think that's what it's going to be called. The last half hour is still being written, however, in a Texas courtroom. Was it a calculated hit or a crime of passion?

We wanted to get the latest and the flavor of the case, a decidedly Texas flavor, from Skip Hollandsworth of "Texas Monthly" magazine. He is in Dallas.

Skip, thanks for being with us.

SKIP HOLLANDSWORTH, EXECUTIVE EDITOR, "TEXAS MONTHLY": Thanks.

COOPER: It is easy to make light of this story. Obviously, there was a death involved. And people's lives are forever changed, especially the young woman who took the stand today. What came out in court today?

HOLLANDSWORTH: Well, you're right about one thing. This thing has riveted people, because it is just so dramatic and so sensational and, at times, so preposterous that you have to think it is almost cinematic.

It's like a bad film noir movie, where this wife confronts the mistress and her husband. The husband runs off with the mistress to safety. And then the wife runs him over, jumps out of her car, and then cradles his body and begs him to leave. No film noir director would even use that scene.

But the problem is, is that there's an underlying tragedy here. And it came out today, which is this 16-, now 17-year-old daughter of David Harris from his first marriage.

COOPER: This is Lindsey Harris.

HOLLANDSWORTH: Lindsey, who happened to be in the car with Clara when she decided to run over the husband.

And it hit -- Lindsey saw David's -- her father's body launched 25 feet in front of the car on the first impact and then watched Clara gun the engine and run over him two or three more times. COOPER: And she gave some pretty damaging testimony today. She basically said, my stepmother knew what she was doing. She wanted to kill him.

HOLLANDSWORTH: After the confrontation in the hotel lobby, one where Clara felt this whole sense of betrayal again, she did say, according to Lindsey, to Lindsey in the car: I could kill him and no one would care. I could kill him and get away with it.

And then she guns the engine. And I don't know if this has come out yet, but I was told that Lindsey at one point opens the door and sticks her foot out as the car is going after her father a second time and, almost in this bad imitation of a "Flintstones" cartoon, tries to stop the car with her foot, screaming at Clara to stop this, stop this. And so, suddenly, all this humor turns to this searing tragedy.

COOPER: We're going to play some of the surveillance video that has been presented in court so far while we're talking, just so you know what we're playing underneath you, in case you can't see it.

I guess that is the car. Not only did she run over -- allegedly swipe her husband. She then ran over him several times. We're seeing the car go around and around. I assume that's over her husband's body.

HOLLANDSWORTH: And what Lindsey said today is that she knew when the car was going over one of those little small medians that divided the parking lots in the hotel and she knew when the car was going over her father.

And this poor 16-year-old, who went out with her stepmother, at her stepmother's request, to go look for him, to keep him away from the mistress, suddenly is part of this murder that is never going to leave her.

COOPER: No doubt. But what is interesting, though, is the response to this story. Clara Harris is getting a lot of support, is she not?

HOLLANDSWORTH: When I first started working on this story, I was amazed at the way people, especially women, sympathized with her, because she put into reality a fantasy that a lot of women have who feel betrayed like this.

And one of the darkly surreal and comic moments in this case was during jury selection, when two women who had been picked for the larger jury pool admitted to prosecutors that they had -- one of them had tried to run over her husband when she found out he was having an affair.

COOPER: Wait. Two people who were going to be on the jury basically were taken off the jury because....

HOLLANDSWORTH: Well, they were taken off the jury because they both said that they had tried to hurt their husband. One of the women said she actually nicked him with her car. COOPER: And, remarkably, the parents of the man who was killed are now siding with his wife.

HOLLANDSWORTH: There was a time this past week where I thought, this trial is becoming a version of this movie "Chicago," where the defense attorney is playing Richard Gere and Clara Harris, who breaks into these distraught sobs like every 15 minutes during the trial, is now Roxie, the Renee Zellweger character.

And they're going to try to create this heartrending, tear- jerking portrait of this betrayed wife. And they're having these dramatic scenes of her walking out of the courtroom arm in arm with the parents of the dead husband. And the thing has taken on this kind of strangely comical flavor.

COOPER: All right. It is fascinating case. The other thing is George Parnham, Clara's attorney, was the attorney for Andrea Yates.

But there is a lot to talk about, Skip. We appreciate you coming in. Skip Hollandsworth with "Texas Monthly," thanks a lot for being with us.

HOLLANDSWORTH: Thanks.

COOPER: Coming up on NEWSNIGHT: what the Iraqis saw in not the State of the Union address, but the show making fun of the U.S. and Britain.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Now, you should keep something in mind with our "Segment Seven" tonight: Iraq is a place where there is one guy deciding on behalf of his oppressed people what is fun. And if the reports are to be believed, Saddam's idea of a rocking Saturday night is sitting around watching "The Old Man and the Sea" over and over again. It's a place where the must-see TV of the day may be an endless loop of Saddam firing off his favorite rifle.

So, keeping that in mind, here's a look at some of the latest political satire the way they do it in Iraq. Let's just say writers for "Saturday Night Live" can rest easy in their job security tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS (through translator): Do we not forge lies together? Why didn't you tell us about this lie before you made it public? Why were we not informed?

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR (through translator): Which one? Thatcher, which one?

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS (through translator): Yes, you know that lie. UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR (through translator): Sure, but you know it's not one or two lies. We have managed our lives lying. Remind me which one. I must have forgotten it.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS (through translator): This Rumsfeld guy, what does he do?

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR (through translator): Don't you know what he does? He's our secretary of defense.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS (through translator): If he is the secretary of defense, then why do you let him get out there and say whatever he likes? How could he say that European minds are old and backwards?

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR (through translator): And why do you care?

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS (through translator): Well, isn't England part of Europe?

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR (through translator): Thatcher, no, no, no. You're in Europe, but you have American brains.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS (through translator): Yes, you're right. What about the other thing he says?

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR (through translator): Oh, you mean about what he said about the new alliance?

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS (through translator): He says there are 12 countries in the alliance. Where did he get those 12 countries from? Didn't we forget that there is only one country with us?

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR (through translator): What are you talking about?

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR (through translator): Take it easy, Thatcher. Are you saying that we are alone?

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS (through translator): We are Britain and you are the United States. And our friends are the Zionists.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR (through translator): Excellent.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR (through translator): Thatcher, why are you making it complicated? If you count them, they will come to 12.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS (through translator): How?

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR (through translator): Count with me: Israel, Zionist entity, Britain, England, United Kingdom, London, America, the United States and us and them.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR (through translator): Your majesty, have you heard yesterday about what I said in the press conference, that we have documents proving that Iraq has nuclear weapons? UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS (through translator): This is absolutely true. Where are those documents now?

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR (through translator): Did you forget, Your Majesty? Did you really believe this? We always say we have documents and we never have anything. This is just a lie, like everything that we've said before.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS (through translator): Well, what about those 12 countries you talked about? Do they really exist? Who are those 12 countries?

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR (through translator): Based on your question, Your Majesty, we will do a show. The question is, what are those 12 countries? And whoever knows it should tell Rumsfeld.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Why is Queen Elizabeth smoking? I don't get it.

That's it for us on NEWSNIGHT. See you tomorrow.

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