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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown

Bush Would Welcome Saddam's Exile; Human Rights Activists Come to Baghdad; Reid Sentenced to Life in Prison

Aired January 30, 2003 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANDERSON COOPER, GUEST HOST: Good evening again, everyone. I'm Anderson Cooper.
A lot of talk today about the possibility, however remote, of Saddam Hussein going into exile. The appeal, of course, is obvious. It would avert war, save lives, not to mention money.

But the question we were wondering today, where would he go? Plenty of international bad guys have wound up in Switzerland -- good chocolate, good banks, great skiing, although it's hard to imagine Saddam Hussein on the slopes. Cross-country I can see, but downhill, all those lines? I don't see it.

Don't see him as a beach bum either. After you've given orders to fire shells, collecting them has got to be dull by comparison. Idi Amin, the one-time Ugandan uberfuhrer, is said to be living comfortably now in Saudi Arabia. Maybe there's a co-op for international criminals there. I don't know if Saddam could get board approval, though. That would probably be tough.

Come to think of it, Saudi Arabia would be hard. Once you've lobbed Scuds into a place, making friends there, difficult.

Baby Doc Duvalier, the erstwhile honcho of Haiti, he's been kicking back in France, which is not bad, except for all the Jerry Lewis movies on TV. But France and Haiti have old colonial ties. Iraq's old colonial ties are with Great Britain, which I think would be something of a sticky wicket for our man from Baghdad, unless the Brits have a witness protection program, that is.

Saddam could shave the mustache, pretend to be from Greece, maybe. Maybe open up a fish and chips shop in Liverpool.

Didn't a lot of Nazis am-scray to Argentina after World War II? If he went there, he could even keep his mustache. Kind of looks gaucho-like. He could get some land, some horses, and at night Saddam could still close his eyes and fall asleep dreaming his dictator dreams.

So is exile a real possibility for Saddam?

We start the whip with senior White House correspondent John King, who's been looking into the options. John, a headline, please.

JOHN KING, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, the president said for the first time today he would welcome that, he would welcome Saddam Hussein voluntarily stepping aside and leaving Iraq, quote, "with his henchman." But no one here at the White House expects that to happen, so the president consulting on war planning, the Italian prime minister today, the British prime minister tomorrow, Anderson.

ANDERSON: All right.

On to Baghdad and the efforts by some human rights activists who oppose U.S. policy toward Iraq. Nic Robertson is there. Nic, the headline.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, those groups coming here not only to find out if President Saddam Hussein has any room to maneuver, but also to point out the fact that a potential war could lead to potential huge civilian casualties. That, they say, would be a war crime.

ANDERSON: All right.

New developments in the war on terror. A decision on the fate of the so-called shoe bomber, Richard Reid. Kelli Arena was there for his sentencing in Boston today. Kelli, the headline.

KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Richard Reid got sentenced today to life in prison for trying to blow up an airplane, but, Anderson, he did not go quietly.

ANDERSON: All right. Back with all of you in a moment.

Also coming up tonight on NEWSNIGHT for this January 30, 2003, a murder mystery nearly half a century old, a cold case that is suddenly white hot. Frank Buckley will have that for us tonight.

And then, they thought they had the perfect plan, college students using their cell phones to cheat on an exam. Seems they forgot the most important lesson of all, the teacher's always smarter than you are.

And we'll meet a young woman making her way in a business where the backstabbing is legend, and the big boys try to dominate. And no, she doesn't work in network news. She's a Broadway theater producer on the rise. That is Segment Seven tonight.

We start off at the White House, where we should, where President Bush today opened an escape hatch for Saddam Hussein, size and shape unknown, terms and conditions also unknown. But for the first time, as John King mentioned, the president addressed one of the biggest hypothetical questions out there, the one we made light of at the top of the program. Is exile possible for Saddam?

Here again John King.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KING (voice-over): The president for the first time publicly embraced exile as a possible way of resolving the showdown with Iraq.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Hopefully the pressure of the free world will convince Mr. Saddam Hussein to relinquish power. And should he choose to leave the country, along with a lot of the other henchmen who have tortured the Iranian -- Iraqi people, we would welcome that, of course.

KING: But Mr. Bush added, exile would not entirely solve the problem.

BUSH: The goal of disarming Iraq still stays the same, regardless of who's in charge of the government.

KING: And top Bush envoys told Congress they see no signs that Saddam Hussein is ready to step aside, or ready to meet demands that he account for his chemical and biological weapons.

RICHARD ARMITAGE, U.S. DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE: I don't see one single sign that he's gotten the message. I don't see one single sign of cooperation.

KING: So enlisting allies is the president's top priority. This fireside chat in the Oval Office with Italy's prime minister billed by the White House as proof the coalition is growing, despite resistance at the United Nations Security Council from France, Germany, and others.

SILVIO BERLUSCONI, ITALIAN PRIME MINISTER (through translator): I'm here today to help my friend President Bush.

KING: The leaders of Italy, Britain, Spain, Portugal, Hungary, Poland, Denmark, and the Czech Republic released an open letter voicing solidarity with the White House, saying, "Our governments have a common responsibility to face this threat." The leaders, Britain's Blair and Spain's Aznar among them, also echoed Mr. Bush in warning "the Security Council will lose its credibility" if it does not challenge Iraq's defiance of disarmament demands.

TONY BLAIR, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: It is a test of the seriousness with which we are treating this issue of weapons of mass destruction.

KING: Saudi Arabia's foreign minister made an urgent visit to the White House, urging more time for diplomacy.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KING: Mr. Bush says there is more time, but just a few weeks, not months, the president said emphatically today. The White House tonight also flatly dismissing an invitation from Iraq. Iraq says the top two U.N. weapons inspectors should come back to Baghdad before they next report to the Security Council. That is due in two weeks.

One senior official said tonight, Sounds like more talk, no action. Quote, "There's absolutely nothing to negotiate," Anderson. ANDERSON: John, any sense from the White House or from the Saudis that anyone in the region has actually approached Saddam Hussein about the possibility of exile, either the Saudis or the Qataris or the Jordanians or anyone?

KING: The Saudis say they have made it clear to Saddam Hussein that they think that is the best option for him and for the region, and they would like to help facilitate it. But the Saudi Arabian foreign minister was here today, and the U.S. ambassador from Saudi Arabia, both saying they don't think it is a viable option. They do not think Saddam is receptive to it.

They do say they want to keep trying, however. Here at the White House, Anderson, they say they would love it to happen, they just simply don't believe it. The president did talk about it today for the first time. But they say they cannot be distracted by it. They need to get along with the business, a little more diplomacy, preparations for possible war.

ANDERSON: All right. John King at the White House, thank you.

South Africa's former president had some very harsh words today for President Bush and his policy on Iraq. Nelson Mandela has been a critic for quite some time, but today he seemed to take it to the next level. He said Mr. Bush wants war to control Iraq's oil. He also accused the president of snubbing U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan because Mr. Annan is black.

And that was just a warmup.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NELSON MANDELA, FORMER SOUTH AFRICAN PRESIDENT: What I'm condemning is that one power, with a president who has no foresight, who cannot think properly, is now wanting to plunge the world into a holocaust.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: Mr. Mandela's successor, Thabo Mbeki, also opposes war with Iraq, even if Iraq is found to have weapons of mass destruction.

Inviting weapons inspectors Hans Blix and Mohamed ElBaradei back, as John King mentioned, was just one of the angles being played today as the Iraqis maneuvered their way through increasingly troubled waters.

There was also some tough war talk from Saddam Hussein on Iraqi TV today, and an anti-war delegation with tough talk of its own.

From Baghdad, once again, here's CNN's Nic Robertson.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON (voice-over): Listening attentively, Iraqi generals take notes as President Saddam Hussein lays out the country's defensive strategy in public for the first time.

SADDAM HUSSEIN, PRESIDENT OF IRAQ (through translator): The enemy will come with infantry and armor and storm our positions, but the successive defensive lines will destroy and defeat him.

ROBERTSON: Such detail in the now-regular broadcasts of troops training for war bolstering expectations here conflict could be close, a potential that is drawing increasing scrutiny of Iraq's ability to cope by visiting human rights groups.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This hospital system, this clinic network cannot handle war.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This public health infrastructure of electricity and water and sewage has been degraded by war.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Iraqi population today is living like people living in a refugee camp.

ROBERTSON: This team of doctors and human rights advocates, with more than a decade of experience in Iraq, have spent the last week touring the country. Their mission, to highlight that the sort of assault planned by the Pentagon could, they say, amount to a war crime.

ROGER NORMAND, CENTER FOR ECONOMIC AND SOCIAL RIGHTS: A deliberate and planned attack, if it happens, against electricity, such that the results are many, many thousands, potentially tens of thousands, potentially more deaths, if that happens, that is a war crime.

ROBERTSON: A war crime because Iraq's degraded infrastructure and inability to cope with casualties could cause disproportionate civilian deaths, even if the target were military. Publicly, Iraqi official say they could cope in the event of war.

OMID MITHAD MUBARAK, IRAQI HEALTH MINISTER: We would like to assure everybody that we are prepared to save lives.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON: Now, in the coming weeks, Anderson, more international politicians, more peace activists are expected to come to Iraq, but it's certainly clear so far none of them have been able to change either side in this potential conflict to change their position, Anderson.

ANDERSON: Nic, I was interested by those pictures on Iraqi TV of Saddam Hussein sort of giving strategy to note-taking generals. Do we have any sense -- does he actually do that? I mean, is that real? Does he actually give strategy? Or what -- where does their strategy come from, if in fact they have any strategy?

ROBERTSON: That's the way it's played out on TV here. I think this goes part of the way to answering the question of, is president Saddam Hussein prepared to go into exile? Part of the process of putting him on TV like this, having him, as the leader, giving advice to subordinates, having them follow his instructions, is part way designed to show that he's going to stay here, that he is the one that directs the military, that he gives them coordination, direction, leadership.

It's all part of that message, Anderson. As far as we can see, yes, he's the one advising them. From what we see here on the ground, people follow what he says very closely, Anderson.

ROBERTSON: Nic, just one more quick question. You know, we see on TV a lot of these, you know, peace activists, so-called human rights activists, going to Baghdad. Do they ever criticize the Baghdad regime as well? Because what we end up seeing often is them criticizing the United States.

ROBERTSON: Anderson, maybe that's our fault here as journalists not to put that across as well. This particular group has some well- accomplished peace activists, if you will, among them. They were very critical as well of the Iraqi regime, saying that they -- if they found them guilty of any war crimes, they would not hesitate to put that forward.

What they said they came here to do was from -- and even they said, Anderson, that they realized that there's very little room for maneuver here. They're not seeing any changes, they're not expecting, even, to see any particular changes. But they say what they want to do is put on the record the potential for the loss of life and what that means.

And that's really what they say they came here to do, this particular group, Anderson.

ANDERSON: All right, Nic Robertson, thanks very much, live in Baghdad.

From Capitol Hill today, some troubling testimony on border security. The bottom line, it leaks. An official from the General Accounting Office told a Senate committee his investigators had no trouble getting into the country with false papers, even no papers at all. Phony driver's licenses and birth certificates tricked some border guards. Others even accepted oral statements as proof of U.S. citizenship.

According to the investigators, this happened at ports of entry from one end of the country to the other, including Miami, where today President Bush's secretary of homeland security happened to be paying a visit. Tom Ridge downplayed the GAO investigation but acknowledged the challenges facing his agency.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM RIDGE, SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY: Whether it's a member of TSA inspecting baggage at an airport or the Border Patrol officer examining trucks for explosives, or the INS agent checking the authenticity of immigration papers, the good people, the good men and women of homeland security, are not complacent. They are ready. (END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: And how much will that readiness cost? Secretary Ridge announced today the president will ask Congress to lay out $41 billion to fund the new Department of Homeland Security.

We move on to the shoe bomber. Richard Reid left the scene today much the same way we came in, struggling and defiant, as Kelli Arena mentioned before. The venue was a federal courtroom in Boston. And this time, the people grappling with Richard Reid weren't terrified passengers and crew members, they were federal marshals dragging him away to life in prison.

The passengers and crew of the airliner he tried to destroy were there to watch. So was CNN's Kelli Arena.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ARENA (voice-over): Richard Reid arrived at the federal courthouse in Boston under heavy guard, a marshal's submachine gun clearly in view. But the security didn't seem to faze Reid, nor did the tearful statements of passengers and crew members who were on board the American Airlines flight that Reid admits trying to blow up.

Reid looked defiantly at the judge and once again swore his allegiance to Osama bin Laden. Responding to the charge that he attempted to kill innocent people, Reid said, "Your government has killed 2 million children in Iraq," and added, "I am at war with your country."

Judge William Young bristled at his comments and said, "You are not a soldier in any war. You are a terrorist." He went on to say, "We do not negotiate with terrorists. We hunt them down one by one and bring them to justice."

Judge Young then pointed to the American flag behind him and said, "You see that flag, Mr. Reid? That's the flag of the United States of America. That flag will fly there long after this is all forgotten." To which Reid replied, "That flag will be brought down on the day of judgment."

Reid received the maximum sentence, life in prison without any chance of parole.

MICHAEL SULLIVAN, U.S. ATTORNEY: Reid will now spend the rest of his life in prison, unable to fulfill his delusional quest to destroy democracy in the United States of America in the name of religion.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ARENA: Reid's sentencing does not end the investigation into his attempted attack. Officials do not believe that he acted alone, and so the search for accomplices continues, Anderson.

ANDERSON: What -- is anything known about any accomplices? I understand there was some information about his handler, if you will, and that person's role in other possible attacks.

ARENA: Well, that's right. According to documents obtained by CNN, it -- those show that Richard Reid reported to al Qaeda's chief military operations officer, Khalid Sheikh Mohamed. And Mohamed has been linked to every major al Qaeda attack since 1993. So you do have that relationship. And investigators want to know about everything in between as well.

ANDERSON: Khalid Sheikh Mohamed is still at large?

ARENA: Oh, that's right, yes. One of the most-wanted men, right behind Osama bin Laden.

ANDERSON: All right. Kelli Arena, thanks very much.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, we will look further at the ideal of exile for Saddam Hussein with Ken Pollack of the Brookings Institution.

And later, the story of a murder suspect captured nearly a half a century after the alleged crime.

And the fascinating tale of the royal lovers and the secret police papers.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDERSON: Iraq again, and a lot to talk about there -- the wind- up to war, exile for Saddam Hussein, and the case to be made by Secretary Powell, just to name a few.

Our next guest is one of the most eloquent and forceful advocates of dealing forcefully with Iraq. He's a CNN analyst, senior fellow at the Brookings Institution. He's also the recent author of "The Threatening Storm: The Case for Invading Iraq." Ken Pollack joins us tonight in Washington.

Welcome to NEWSNIGHT, Ken.

KEN POLLACK, CNN ANALYST: Thanks, Anderson.

ANDERSON: The Saudis seem to be floating this idea of exile, there was -- President Bush spoke about it today, in favor of the notion. What's in it for the Saudis?

POLLACK: Well, it's helpful for the Saudis to do this, because the Saudi people are very concerned about this war. They have no love lost for Saddam Hussein. In fact, most Saudis recognize that Iraq would be a lot better off without him.

But they're very concerned about the fate of the Iraqi people. Most Saudis are afraid that the Iraqi people are going to suffer in another war. So it's good for the Saudi government to do this as a way of saying, Look, we've tried every option, and this is the last resort.

When they have got to give us permission to mount the attack against Iraq, and I think all indications are that they are going to allow us to at least use their air spaces and their bases, this way they can turn to their people and say, We tried every possible way to avert this, and Saddam wouldn't take us up on it.

ANDERSON: So you don't even think the Saudis really believe this could happen?

POLLACK: I think that the Saudis recognize that this is, at best, a real long shot.

ANDERSON: Why now? Is this just buying time because we're not ready militarily?

POLLACK: Well, certainly there is an element of that involved. Certainly for the United States, we're not ready militarily. And I think that the administration is actually doing the smart thing, which is using the time remaining before we're ready to try to build a larger diplomatic coalition.

For the Saudis, again, they recognize that time is running out, that it is simply a matter of weeks before we go to war with Iraq. And they really want to show their people in these last weeks before everyone goes to war with Iraq that they tried everything.

At the 11th hour, they were still trying to find a way to solve this short of war.

ANDERSON: It is obviously a, you know, a sort of a last-minute solution, if it works. I mean, it would be great, as we said in the beginning, it would be cheap, it would save lives. But how real is it, I mean, bottom line?

POLLACK: Realistically, this is exceedingly unlikely. And look, I always remember what one of my old bosses at CIA said once, which was, We're not going to predict what Saddam Hussein will not do, because he is capable of doing things that no one would have predicted.

But what we know about this man, everything that we've seen from him for the past 34 years, everything that we're seeing now, indicates that the likelihood he is going to go into exile before the American tanks reach Baghdad is incredibly slight.

I think, you know, basically, this is just not a realistic proposition. And I think there are a lot of people out there who are engaging in wishful thinking in believing that this is a realistic alternative.

ANDERSON: You know, Nic Robertson showed us earlier today Saddam Hussein on Iraqi TV, you know, dictating to his generals how to, you know, allegedly fight against any U.S. forces. He was sitting there smoking a cigar. He looked calm, he looked collected. Does he really believe he can wriggle out of this? And perhaps the more pressing question, can he actually wriggle out of this?

POLLACK: Well, I certainly think that he thinks he can. All the evidence that we're seeing, including the bits that you were just talking about, are Saddam's actually quite confident right now. And Saddam is a congenital optimist. It's one of the problems we have with Saddam Hussein, is that he always believes that he is going to survive, even if he's in a tight situation.

Because he's always done so. For 65 years, he's been wriggling out of tight situations, and he's pretty convinced he can do it now. And in fact, I think what he's seeing from the French and the Germans in particular are just making him more confident.

He said a number of weeks ago, he said publicly, All I need to do is play for time. All I need to do is string this out for a few months, and then British and American public opinion are going to collapse, and they won't be able to go to war.

And every time he hears the French and the Germans saying things like they will veto a U.S. move in the U.N. to get a second resolution unless we give the inspectors several more months, he looks at that and says, This is playing exactly into my favor.

Can he get away with it? As far as I'm concerned, I don't think he can. I listened to the president Tuesday night in the State of the Union, and I think the president made it pretty clear he intends to go to war with Saddam unless he flees. And as I said, I think it is exceptionally unlikely Saddam is going to take him up on that offer.

ANDERSON: All right. Ken Pollack, thanks lot. Appreciate having you here on NEWSNIGHT. Thank you.

POLLACK: Any time, Anderson, thank you.

ANDERSON: All right.

Coming up on NEWSNIGHT, the cold case file. A remarkable story. Two police officers murdered nearly half a century ago. Has their killer finally been caught?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDERSON: I want to take you back to 1957, July 23. This was the headline on the front page of "The L.A. Times," "Siege set up in beach area for killer of two policemen." Under that was a photo of one of the policemen's wives looking distraught and her three young kids, right there, as you see it.

The investigation went nowhere, one of those mysteries that events just disappear from the papers altogether.

It did not, however, disappear for the families or for police, who do not forget cop killers so easily. And now their persistence, along with some modern technology, has led to an arrest more than four decades after the crime.

Some background now. Here's Frank Buckley.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It happened during a routine traffic stop 45 years ago, when Officers Richard Phillips and Milton Curtis pulled over a 1949 Ford.

JACK WAYT, EL SEGUNDO POLICE CHIEF: What they did not know at the time was that the driver had just committed a robbery, rape, and kidnapping in the city of Hawthorne.

BUCKLEY: Of teenagers on a lover's lane. But before Phillips and Curtis could make the connection, police say the driver of the car shot both officers to death.

It was a crime that shocked a community and gained national notoriety. "True Detective" profiled the case of the cop killer.

But as the years went by and the quiet lover's lane turned into this busy urban thoroughfare, the case went cold.

JOHN BOOTERBAUGH, FORMER EL SEGUNDO POLICE OFFICER: It haunted us for years -- for years.

CAPT. FRANK MERRIMAN, LOS ANGELES COUNTY SHERIFF: Well, we have boxes containing the files.

BUCKLEY: But it was never forgotten, says L.A. County sheriff's homicide captain, Frank Merriman.

MERRIMAN: We have sketches and composites.

BUCKLEY: Merriman showed us the boxes of material that had remained in storage.

MERRIMAN: They cover all of the over 3,000 clues, all of the over 400 guns that have been cleared, all of the suspects that have been brought in and eliminated over the course of 45 1/2 years.

BUCKLEY: And there were fingerprints from that 1949 Ford. But detectives working the case back then could never find a match. It was a time-consuming manual process of physically matching one print to another.

But then last year, an FBI database of fingerprints from across the U.S. came online, and detectives who weren't even born at the time Phillips and Curtis were killed made a match.

MERRIMAN: That is what broke this case. It gave us a focus, gave us a place to look. Without that, we had nothing.

BUCKLEY: Now the detectives did have something, and it led them here, to this comfortable Columbia, South Carolina, retirement community, to the home of 68-year-old Gerald Mason, who appeared in court 45 years after authorities allege he killed two police officers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And Mr. Mason, are you represented today by an attorney?

GERALD MASON: Yes, sir.

BUCKLEY: The grandfather, the man neighbors and friends know as a neighborhood helper and a fantastic bowler, left all of them in shock.

ERMA WILSON, NEIGHBOR: Of course I was shocked. I couldn't even believe it. I don't think anybody around here could believe it.

BUCKLEY: Mason's brother denied the allegations.

MURRAY MASON, MASON'S BROTHER: Nobody believes anything. This is ridiculous.

BUCKLEY: Mason is fighting extradition. Detectives are convinced he committed the crime, and L.A.'s law enforcement community came together in El Segundo to say the search for any cop killer is never over.

STEVE COOLEY, LOS ANGELES DISTRICT ATTORNEY: When it comes to killing a police officer, we don't forgive, we don't forget, we don't give up.

BUCKLEY: Frank Buckley, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON: Well, one of the men who did not give up is joining us now, Lieutenant Ray Peavy of the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department. He is in South Carolina tonight, where he took part in the arrest of Gerald Mason.

Lieutenant Peavy, thanks for joining us tonight.

As you were driving up to Mr. Mason's house, what was going through your mind?

LT. RAY PEAVY, LOS ANGELES COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT: I was thinking to myself how many times he must have taken this road, and felt so secure, being virtually -- at least probably 3,000 miles away from where this deadly thing occurred almost a half a century ago, and how safe he must feel here and how secure he must feel here, because, quite frankly, it was like another world away from this area where this thing happened.

ANDERSON: Not only another world, but another time. By all accounts, Mr. Mason has lived a life since this alleged event, this event happened that he was allegedly involved with, has led a law- abiding life. Was there any sense of regret on your part as you drove up to the house?

PEAVY: No, no regret at all. In fact, there was a great deal of anticipation on my part as far as realizing that this case that had been worked for so many years by so many dedicated folks, and a case that a lot of people had pretty much figured was never going to get solved, we were about to -- moments away -- solve this case. I did feel sorry for his family. I felt very concerned for his wife. But I felt no sorrow for Mr. Mason.

ANDERSON: So you knock on the door. I assume he answers the door, someone answers the door. He comes to the door. What then?

PEAVY: He came to the door. He was surprised. He, quite frankly, didn't seem to know what was going on. It was shortly after 7:00 in the morning, yesterday morning. And he was immediately told that we were there, law enforcement from Los Angeles County was there with a warrant for his arrest. And we also had a search warrant for his house.

He seemed stunned, but he was not outraged in any way, he just seemed almost stunned.

ANDERSON: And has he said anything to you since then?

PEAVY: No, he chose not to talk to us, which certainly is his right, and we went ahead and took him to a local law enforcement agency, one of the many that helped us in this case locally, and then we went about the business of searching his home.

COOPER: What happens now? He's fighting extradition. When is his hearing?

PEAVY: Well, he is fighting extradition.

He'll have a hearing tomorrow morning at 10:30. It's a hearing to see whether or not they will allow him to bail out, and, if they do, what that amount of bail will be. We will be there. And, certainly, our hope is that there will be no bail set. After that, then a period of time will go by, when the state of South Carolina and the state of California will -- a hearing will be held in South Carolina deciding whether or not the governor of South Carolina will extradite him to California.

COOPER: What was the feeling that went through your mind when you're doing this investigation, you find these fingerprints in the cold-case file, and you realize that there's databases now online, you send them in, and you get a match? What is that like? It's got to be remarkable.

PEAVY: Well, it was hard, really, to explain at this time.

I mean, it was ecstasy, I guess would be as good a way to describe the feeling as any, because the prints have been checked before. And when we sent them to our crime lab this time, we weren't aware, quite frankly, that there was a new system online that might give us more of a chance. And when we got the phone call the next day or, actually, later that day, that they had a hit, we were flabbergasted. I mean, we just couldn't believe it.

COOPER: Well, Lieutenant Peavy, thank you very much for joining us tonight. And I know it's been a lot of long hours for you and all the other people who have working on this case over the years. Congratulations. Thanks very, very much.

PEAVY: Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Thank you.

COOPER: As NEWSNIGHT continues: the secret records of a royal romance, the story of Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson, and what the police knew and we did not know until right now.

And later: a new college cheating scandal. The students were using cell phones to get answers during a test, but the school beat them at their own game.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Ahead on NEWSNIGHT: a royal love scandal, what the secret police records finally reveal.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: A few stories from around the globe tonight, beginning with a deadly crash near the Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan: A U.S. Army helicopter crashed, killing all four Americans on board. The helicopter was on a routine training mission. And a military spokesman says it does not look related to any hostile action.

The Cambodian capital of Phnom Penh is quiet now after nationalist rioters destroyed the Thai Embassy and hundreds of Thai citizens were evacuated. The riots seemed to be sparked by comments from a Thai actress that the ancient Angkor Wat temples actually belong to Thailand. The actress has denied saying it.

In the Ivory Coast, foreigners lined up for flights out of the country. They fear more violence if, as many expect, a peace deal falls apart that is just a few days old. That deal was brokered by the French, the former colonial power in the Ivory Coast. A civil war has been going on there now for four months.

And a new gadget will give us the bird's-eye view of the sun. It is a solar storm detector that will send realtime images to forecasters. That should help them spot a sun storm before it reaches our atmosphere. Solar outbursts can cause disruptions in communication, electrical services and other high-tech businesses.

All right, so I admit, I find it a little hard to get my brain around this next story. Here it is in a nutshell. There's some nobody American going out with the king of England, but that's not enough for you. You have to go out with someone else at the same time. And that someone else is a car salesman. The human heart truly is a strange little muscle.

Newly released documents reveal that Wallis Simpson, the temptress who led King Edward to give up his throne in the 1930s, was seeing someone else on the side, the car salesman.

Who else could do this story besides Richard Quest?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RICHARD QUEST, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's always been viewed as one of the great love affairs of the 20th century.

He was Edward VIII. She was Wallis Simpson, an American, twice divorced, who the British government refused to allow to become queen. Now the British are discovering that Mrs. Simpson was a woman with more than just a past. Police reports from 1935 show that, while she was seeing Edward, Mrs. Simpson was also having an affair with a car salesman called Guy Trundle. He's described as a charming adventurer and a good dancer.

Mrs. Simpson showered Trundle with gifts. And, in the quaint words of the 1930s, she enjoyed intimate relations with him.

(on camera): The decision to publish these papers became possible following the death of the queen mother last year. She'd had a lifelong dislike of Wallis Simpson, blaming her for the abdication, which brought the burden of kingship upon the shoulders of her husband. The queen mother did everything possible to prevent Wallis Simpson from having any royal connections.

(voice-over): The papers also show that the then prime minister, Stanley Baldwin, refused to allow Edward to appeal directly to the British empire in a radio address. And they suggest, in the final days before the abdication, Edward was nearing a nervous breakdown.

In the end, Edward gave up the throne with the famous line that he could not continue as king without the help and support of the woman he loved. The capacity of this 70-year-old love story to throw up new facts will astound even those used to royal scandals.

Richard Quest, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: All right, I get it now. He was a good dancer. That explains everything.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT: College kids who dreamed up high-tech way to cheat found their teachers had a few old-school tricks of their own.

And later, our "On the Rise" series returns with a look at an up- and-coming Broadway producer.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Next on NEWSNIGHT: phoning in the answers, literally.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: North Carolina's governor today called it a miracle that 100 workers were not killed in the fire and explosion at a medical equipment factory in the city of Kinston. That's the one we told you about last night. And judging by the pictures a day later, it's easy to see why he said that. Three people were killed. One is still missing. At least 10 were critically injured. Federal investigators spent the day interviewing witnesses, so far, though, no answer to what caused the disaster. Police in Flint, Michigan, are asking for help identifying the driver whose propane truck plunged off the highway this morning, fell on to a railroad track, burst into flames. The flames melted power lines, destroyed a chunk of interstate, and shut down rail traffic between Chicago and points north.

And a group representing police officers is suing Ford. The National Association of Police Organizations filed papers today in Manhattan federal court. The lawsuit claims the company failed to fix a defect that causes Ford Crown Victorias to burst into flames when hit from behind. About 80 percent of all police cruisers in the country are Crown Vics.

So, this is the story we told you about a little bit earlier on. They were taking a course called business management 220. If you ask me, they should have been taking ethics and morality 101. Students at the University of Maryland allegedly used their cell phones to get the answers to an exam from friends outside the classroom. The answers were, for some reason, posted on the Internet while the test was going on.

The students used a high-tech way to cheat and the professors used a simple, low-tech way to outfox them. The answers they posted were bogus.

Joining us now: a veteran reporter who has been covering the story for the paper, "The Diamondback," Jeremy Hsieh.

Jeremy, thanks for being with us.

JEREMY HSIEH, "THE DIAMONDBACK": Thank you.

COOPER: So, how did this happen? I understand about 12 students so far have been implicated. Six have actually confessed to it. What did they try to do?

HSIEH: Well, basically, after the answers were posted, someone from outside or the kids themselves from inside the test who had really high-tech PDAs or cell phones accessed the Internet. And if they were inside, they just went directly to the Web site and logged in and got the answers themselves from the Web site.

COOPER: Why were these answers put online?

HSIEH: They haven't really been able to answer that.

The first time around, on one of the exams previous to the final, where they were caught, I don't know why they were put on and nobody could give me an answer why they were posted early. But the second time around, they had received a tip after the first exam that said -- the instructors had received a tip that someone had been cheating using these cell phones.

So word got around. And then the third time -- for the final exam, actually -- I'm sorry -- the instructors got together and decided, let's post a bogus answer key online and then we'll know exactly who has cheated, because the answers will be wrong and they'll match with our fake answer key.

COOPER: Right. What happens now? As I said, 12 students have been implicated. I believe six have already confessed. What do they face now? Are they going to get expelled?

HSIEH: Well, everything that I've heard from the Student Honor Council has said that they probably won't. They probably will be expelled if they had a previous record of some kind of academic dishonesty.

But everything right now indicates that, no, they won't be expelled. They will receive an X-F for a grade on their transcript. And the X means failure do to academic dishonesty. So, it's a nasty mark. And 12 months from now, they can take a course in academic integrity. If they pass that, the X will be removed, but they still have the F. And if they have freshman status, they can actually retake the course for credit.

COOPER: OK, now you're a reporter at "The Diamondback." I've got to tell you, you don't look old enough to even be in college. But you're allegedly a reporter at "The Diamondback," which I've been assured is true.

How did you find out about this story? Was this sort of widely known?

HSIEH: I think it was somewhat widely known. But I actually found out from my news editor. He knew because -- my news editor, Scott Goldstein at "The Diamondback" -- and he had heard because he had friends in the class, immediately afterwards, I guess, the day it happened.

COOPER: So not only were they cheating, but they were then talking about cheating, bragging about cheating?

HSIEH: Yes, apparently. I'm not sure if it was bragging in particular. But people in the class had heard people come out of the test saying, whoa, wow, that was real easy because I got all the answers through my phone or something like that. So, call it what you want.

COOPER: When you heard it, did it surprise you? Does this kind of thing go on?

HSIEH: I'm sure there's a lot of cheating that goes on that people don't catch. It didn't surprise really me, because the technology is there. And if the answers are there, people will find ways to cheat.

COOPER: Did it surprise you that the teachers sort of came up with this solution to kind of trick the cheaters?

HSIEH: You know, it did. That seemed like a very aggressive way to catch cheaters. And that's actually facing some scrutiny right now from a lawyer at the student legal aid office on campus.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: What sort of scrutiny?

HSIEH: Well, he's calling it -- he's accusing the instructors that did this of entrapment, because they think maybe this was too aggressive and not necessarily all the students showed a predisposition to cheating.

COOPER: But it sounds like, basically, the system that's in place, it behooves them not to really fight this too much. If they just kind of admit to this and then take some course in not cheating again, this will be erased from their records.

HSIEH: Right. Actually, if they choose not to confess, if they don't accept responsibility for the academic dishonesty, they can have a hearing in front of the Student Honor Council, which is a body of peers that metes out punishment or penalties for this kind of thing. And they'll decide. And that could take months, is what the chairman of the Student Honor Council has told me.

COOPER: All right, Jeremy Hsieh, I appreciate you joining us tonight. It's a fascinating story. Good work on breaking it. Thanks for joining us.

HSIEH: Thank you very.

COOPER: All right.

Still ahead on NEWSNIGHT: "On the Rise." Our series returns with a look at a young Broadway producer making her mark in a profession still dominated by men.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: I want to you meet a young woman who has already scored some off-Broadway hits and is determined to break into the boys club of the most powerful producers on Broadway.

Her name is Arielle Tepper. And she is "On the Rise."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ARIELLE TEPPER, BROADWAY PRODUCER: Mad rush to the box office.

What time is the deadline? How about between shows Saturday? Do we know if he's definitely not performing tonight? People are buying tickets for the two of them. And if they're both sick -- can I go back to the tickets and the seats for one second?

I was about 8 or 9 years old. And I went to see "Annie." And I just fell in love with this little girl on stage and said, this is what I want to do. And within 24 hours, I was screaming at my parents: I want to take tap dancing lessons and singing lessons and acting and everything. And I just -- that was it.

My freshman year in high school, my acting teacher said to me, listen, I'm not going to cast you in anything. And I realized that, as an actor, you're not going to be cast because of this, that or the other thing. And I was like, OK, well, maybe I have to find another way to do this.

I saw "Les Mis" and I just cried and cried. And like the next day, I was walking around London and I saw ads for "Les Mis" on every bus, every billboard. It just felt like it was everywhere. And I was like, who did this? Who made those decisions? By the time I graduated from college, I had had five internships. So, I felt like I had kind of worked for everyone. So, I went home and I said, dad, I don't know what to do.

He said, look, you wanted to do this your whole life. This isn't a new decision for you. So now is your chance. Figure if you can do it.

Good afternoon, Arielle Tepper Productions.

They'd have to be done by 4:30. Should we send you an invite? Tomorrow at 3:30. Just really, really try to be on time.

I started this company to bring people theater who are my age who could connect to what's going on on stage.

Could we have any questions that don't pertain to the other stuff while we have him? So, let's have our meeting.

There are all different ways that you can actually start working on a show.

Talk to her and see if there's anything that she can help us do. Like, let's get them as excited as we are.

Meeting a writer that you want to work with, meeting a new director you want to work with, reading a script. We get scripts sent to us all the time. The first show I produced is "Freak." The second I produced was "Sandra Bernhard." The third show I got involved in was called "De La Guarda." James Joyce's "The Dead." Last year was "A Class Act."

Hi, guys.

New script pages. This is what was today? OK. So how'd today go? So, what were the little cuts?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Little snips in the scene.

TEPPER: That sounds great. And you guys feel good about it?

Have a good show, honey.

There's an amazing energy in the building of live performances. Within minutes, 1,100 people are going to be in the seats and, hopefully, laughing hysterically at what you're showing them and feeling entertained and just having a great time.

Still there.

I can't believe that I get to go to bed every night and wake up and this is my life.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: I love "De La Guarda."

That's it for NEWSNIGHT. Have a good night. See you tomorrow.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





Come to Baghdad; Reid Sentenced to Life in Prison>


Aired January 30, 2003 - 22:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, GUEST HOST: Good evening again, everyone. I'm Anderson Cooper.
A lot of talk today about the possibility, however remote, of Saddam Hussein going into exile. The appeal, of course, is obvious. It would avert war, save lives, not to mention money.

But the question we were wondering today, where would he go? Plenty of international bad guys have wound up in Switzerland -- good chocolate, good banks, great skiing, although it's hard to imagine Saddam Hussein on the slopes. Cross-country I can see, but downhill, all those lines? I don't see it.

Don't see him as a beach bum either. After you've given orders to fire shells, collecting them has got to be dull by comparison. Idi Amin, the one-time Ugandan uberfuhrer, is said to be living comfortably now in Saudi Arabia. Maybe there's a co-op for international criminals there. I don't know if Saddam could get board approval, though. That would probably be tough.

Come to think of it, Saudi Arabia would be hard. Once you've lobbed Scuds into a place, making friends there, difficult.

Baby Doc Duvalier, the erstwhile honcho of Haiti, he's been kicking back in France, which is not bad, except for all the Jerry Lewis movies on TV. But France and Haiti have old colonial ties. Iraq's old colonial ties are with Great Britain, which I think would be something of a sticky wicket for our man from Baghdad, unless the Brits have a witness protection program, that is.

Saddam could shave the mustache, pretend to be from Greece, maybe. Maybe open up a fish and chips shop in Liverpool.

Didn't a lot of Nazis am-scray to Argentina after World War II? If he went there, he could even keep his mustache. Kind of looks gaucho-like. He could get some land, some horses, and at night Saddam could still close his eyes and fall asleep dreaming his dictator dreams.

So is exile a real possibility for Saddam?

We start the whip with senior White House correspondent John King, who's been looking into the options. John, a headline, please.

JOHN KING, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, the president said for the first time today he would welcome that, he would welcome Saddam Hussein voluntarily stepping aside and leaving Iraq, quote, "with his henchman." But no one here at the White House expects that to happen, so the president consulting on war planning, the Italian prime minister today, the British prime minister tomorrow, Anderson.

ANDERSON: All right.

On to Baghdad and the efforts by some human rights activists who oppose U.S. policy toward Iraq. Nic Robertson is there. Nic, the headline.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, those groups coming here not only to find out if President Saddam Hussein has any room to maneuver, but also to point out the fact that a potential war could lead to potential huge civilian casualties. That, they say, would be a war crime.

ANDERSON: All right.

New developments in the war on terror. A decision on the fate of the so-called shoe bomber, Richard Reid. Kelli Arena was there for his sentencing in Boston today. Kelli, the headline.

KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Richard Reid got sentenced today to life in prison for trying to blow up an airplane, but, Anderson, he did not go quietly.

ANDERSON: All right. Back with all of you in a moment.

Also coming up tonight on NEWSNIGHT for this January 30, 2003, a murder mystery nearly half a century old, a cold case that is suddenly white hot. Frank Buckley will have that for us tonight.

And then, they thought they had the perfect plan, college students using their cell phones to cheat on an exam. Seems they forgot the most important lesson of all, the teacher's always smarter than you are.

And we'll meet a young woman making her way in a business where the backstabbing is legend, and the big boys try to dominate. And no, she doesn't work in network news. She's a Broadway theater producer on the rise. That is Segment Seven tonight.

We start off at the White House, where we should, where President Bush today opened an escape hatch for Saddam Hussein, size and shape unknown, terms and conditions also unknown. But for the first time, as John King mentioned, the president addressed one of the biggest hypothetical questions out there, the one we made light of at the top of the program. Is exile possible for Saddam?

Here again John King.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KING (voice-over): The president for the first time publicly embraced exile as a possible way of resolving the showdown with Iraq.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Hopefully the pressure of the free world will convince Mr. Saddam Hussein to relinquish power. And should he choose to leave the country, along with a lot of the other henchmen who have tortured the Iranian -- Iraqi people, we would welcome that, of course.

KING: But Mr. Bush added, exile would not entirely solve the problem.

BUSH: The goal of disarming Iraq still stays the same, regardless of who's in charge of the government.

KING: And top Bush envoys told Congress they see no signs that Saddam Hussein is ready to step aside, or ready to meet demands that he account for his chemical and biological weapons.

RICHARD ARMITAGE, U.S. DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE: I don't see one single sign that he's gotten the message. I don't see one single sign of cooperation.

KING: So enlisting allies is the president's top priority. This fireside chat in the Oval Office with Italy's prime minister billed by the White House as proof the coalition is growing, despite resistance at the United Nations Security Council from France, Germany, and others.

SILVIO BERLUSCONI, ITALIAN PRIME MINISTER (through translator): I'm here today to help my friend President Bush.

KING: The leaders of Italy, Britain, Spain, Portugal, Hungary, Poland, Denmark, and the Czech Republic released an open letter voicing solidarity with the White House, saying, "Our governments have a common responsibility to face this threat." The leaders, Britain's Blair and Spain's Aznar among them, also echoed Mr. Bush in warning "the Security Council will lose its credibility" if it does not challenge Iraq's defiance of disarmament demands.

TONY BLAIR, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: It is a test of the seriousness with which we are treating this issue of weapons of mass destruction.

KING: Saudi Arabia's foreign minister made an urgent visit to the White House, urging more time for diplomacy.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KING: Mr. Bush says there is more time, but just a few weeks, not months, the president said emphatically today. The White House tonight also flatly dismissing an invitation from Iraq. Iraq says the top two U.N. weapons inspectors should come back to Baghdad before they next report to the Security Council. That is due in two weeks.

One senior official said tonight, Sounds like more talk, no action. Quote, "There's absolutely nothing to negotiate," Anderson. ANDERSON: John, any sense from the White House or from the Saudis that anyone in the region has actually approached Saddam Hussein about the possibility of exile, either the Saudis or the Qataris or the Jordanians or anyone?

KING: The Saudis say they have made it clear to Saddam Hussein that they think that is the best option for him and for the region, and they would like to help facilitate it. But the Saudi Arabian foreign minister was here today, and the U.S. ambassador from Saudi Arabia, both saying they don't think it is a viable option. They do not think Saddam is receptive to it.

They do say they want to keep trying, however. Here at the White House, Anderson, they say they would love it to happen, they just simply don't believe it. The president did talk about it today for the first time. But they say they cannot be distracted by it. They need to get along with the business, a little more diplomacy, preparations for possible war.

ANDERSON: All right. John King at the White House, thank you.

South Africa's former president had some very harsh words today for President Bush and his policy on Iraq. Nelson Mandela has been a critic for quite some time, but today he seemed to take it to the next level. He said Mr. Bush wants war to control Iraq's oil. He also accused the president of snubbing U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan because Mr. Annan is black.

And that was just a warmup.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NELSON MANDELA, FORMER SOUTH AFRICAN PRESIDENT: What I'm condemning is that one power, with a president who has no foresight, who cannot think properly, is now wanting to plunge the world into a holocaust.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: Mr. Mandela's successor, Thabo Mbeki, also opposes war with Iraq, even if Iraq is found to have weapons of mass destruction.

Inviting weapons inspectors Hans Blix and Mohamed ElBaradei back, as John King mentioned, was just one of the angles being played today as the Iraqis maneuvered their way through increasingly troubled waters.

There was also some tough war talk from Saddam Hussein on Iraqi TV today, and an anti-war delegation with tough talk of its own.

From Baghdad, once again, here's CNN's Nic Robertson.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON (voice-over): Listening attentively, Iraqi generals take notes as President Saddam Hussein lays out the country's defensive strategy in public for the first time.

SADDAM HUSSEIN, PRESIDENT OF IRAQ (through translator): The enemy will come with infantry and armor and storm our positions, but the successive defensive lines will destroy and defeat him.

ROBERTSON: Such detail in the now-regular broadcasts of troops training for war bolstering expectations here conflict could be close, a potential that is drawing increasing scrutiny of Iraq's ability to cope by visiting human rights groups.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This hospital system, this clinic network cannot handle war.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This public health infrastructure of electricity and water and sewage has been degraded by war.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Iraqi population today is living like people living in a refugee camp.

ROBERTSON: This team of doctors and human rights advocates, with more than a decade of experience in Iraq, have spent the last week touring the country. Their mission, to highlight that the sort of assault planned by the Pentagon could, they say, amount to a war crime.

ROGER NORMAND, CENTER FOR ECONOMIC AND SOCIAL RIGHTS: A deliberate and planned attack, if it happens, against electricity, such that the results are many, many thousands, potentially tens of thousands, potentially more deaths, if that happens, that is a war crime.

ROBERTSON: A war crime because Iraq's degraded infrastructure and inability to cope with casualties could cause disproportionate civilian deaths, even if the target were military. Publicly, Iraqi official say they could cope in the event of war.

OMID MITHAD MUBARAK, IRAQI HEALTH MINISTER: We would like to assure everybody that we are prepared to save lives.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON: Now, in the coming weeks, Anderson, more international politicians, more peace activists are expected to come to Iraq, but it's certainly clear so far none of them have been able to change either side in this potential conflict to change their position, Anderson.

ANDERSON: Nic, I was interested by those pictures on Iraqi TV of Saddam Hussein sort of giving strategy to note-taking generals. Do we have any sense -- does he actually do that? I mean, is that real? Does he actually give strategy? Or what -- where does their strategy come from, if in fact they have any strategy?

ROBERTSON: That's the way it's played out on TV here. I think this goes part of the way to answering the question of, is president Saddam Hussein prepared to go into exile? Part of the process of putting him on TV like this, having him, as the leader, giving advice to subordinates, having them follow his instructions, is part way designed to show that he's going to stay here, that he is the one that directs the military, that he gives them coordination, direction, leadership.

It's all part of that message, Anderson. As far as we can see, yes, he's the one advising them. From what we see here on the ground, people follow what he says very closely, Anderson.

ROBERTSON: Nic, just one more quick question. You know, we see on TV a lot of these, you know, peace activists, so-called human rights activists, going to Baghdad. Do they ever criticize the Baghdad regime as well? Because what we end up seeing often is them criticizing the United States.

ROBERTSON: Anderson, maybe that's our fault here as journalists not to put that across as well. This particular group has some well- accomplished peace activists, if you will, among them. They were very critical as well of the Iraqi regime, saying that they -- if they found them guilty of any war crimes, they would not hesitate to put that forward.

What they said they came here to do was from -- and even they said, Anderson, that they realized that there's very little room for maneuver here. They're not seeing any changes, they're not expecting, even, to see any particular changes. But they say what they want to do is put on the record the potential for the loss of life and what that means.

And that's really what they say they came here to do, this particular group, Anderson.

ANDERSON: All right, Nic Robertson, thanks very much, live in Baghdad.

From Capitol Hill today, some troubling testimony on border security. The bottom line, it leaks. An official from the General Accounting Office told a Senate committee his investigators had no trouble getting into the country with false papers, even no papers at all. Phony driver's licenses and birth certificates tricked some border guards. Others even accepted oral statements as proof of U.S. citizenship.

According to the investigators, this happened at ports of entry from one end of the country to the other, including Miami, where today President Bush's secretary of homeland security happened to be paying a visit. Tom Ridge downplayed the GAO investigation but acknowledged the challenges facing his agency.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM RIDGE, SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY: Whether it's a member of TSA inspecting baggage at an airport or the Border Patrol officer examining trucks for explosives, or the INS agent checking the authenticity of immigration papers, the good people, the good men and women of homeland security, are not complacent. They are ready. (END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: And how much will that readiness cost? Secretary Ridge announced today the president will ask Congress to lay out $41 billion to fund the new Department of Homeland Security.

We move on to the shoe bomber. Richard Reid left the scene today much the same way we came in, struggling and defiant, as Kelli Arena mentioned before. The venue was a federal courtroom in Boston. And this time, the people grappling with Richard Reid weren't terrified passengers and crew members, they were federal marshals dragging him away to life in prison.

The passengers and crew of the airliner he tried to destroy were there to watch. So was CNN's Kelli Arena.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ARENA (voice-over): Richard Reid arrived at the federal courthouse in Boston under heavy guard, a marshal's submachine gun clearly in view. But the security didn't seem to faze Reid, nor did the tearful statements of passengers and crew members who were on board the American Airlines flight that Reid admits trying to blow up.

Reid looked defiantly at the judge and once again swore his allegiance to Osama bin Laden. Responding to the charge that he attempted to kill innocent people, Reid said, "Your government has killed 2 million children in Iraq," and added, "I am at war with your country."

Judge William Young bristled at his comments and said, "You are not a soldier in any war. You are a terrorist." He went on to say, "We do not negotiate with terrorists. We hunt them down one by one and bring them to justice."

Judge Young then pointed to the American flag behind him and said, "You see that flag, Mr. Reid? That's the flag of the United States of America. That flag will fly there long after this is all forgotten." To which Reid replied, "That flag will be brought down on the day of judgment."

Reid received the maximum sentence, life in prison without any chance of parole.

MICHAEL SULLIVAN, U.S. ATTORNEY: Reid will now spend the rest of his life in prison, unable to fulfill his delusional quest to destroy democracy in the United States of America in the name of religion.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ARENA: Reid's sentencing does not end the investigation into his attempted attack. Officials do not believe that he acted alone, and so the search for accomplices continues, Anderson.

ANDERSON: What -- is anything known about any accomplices? I understand there was some information about his handler, if you will, and that person's role in other possible attacks.

ARENA: Well, that's right. According to documents obtained by CNN, it -- those show that Richard Reid reported to al Qaeda's chief military operations officer, Khalid Sheikh Mohamed. And Mohamed has been linked to every major al Qaeda attack since 1993. So you do have that relationship. And investigators want to know about everything in between as well.

ANDERSON: Khalid Sheikh Mohamed is still at large?

ARENA: Oh, that's right, yes. One of the most-wanted men, right behind Osama bin Laden.

ANDERSON: All right. Kelli Arena, thanks very much.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, we will look further at the ideal of exile for Saddam Hussein with Ken Pollack of the Brookings Institution.

And later, the story of a murder suspect captured nearly a half a century after the alleged crime.

And the fascinating tale of the royal lovers and the secret police papers.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDERSON: Iraq again, and a lot to talk about there -- the wind- up to war, exile for Saddam Hussein, and the case to be made by Secretary Powell, just to name a few.

Our next guest is one of the most eloquent and forceful advocates of dealing forcefully with Iraq. He's a CNN analyst, senior fellow at the Brookings Institution. He's also the recent author of "The Threatening Storm: The Case for Invading Iraq." Ken Pollack joins us tonight in Washington.

Welcome to NEWSNIGHT, Ken.

KEN POLLACK, CNN ANALYST: Thanks, Anderson.

ANDERSON: The Saudis seem to be floating this idea of exile, there was -- President Bush spoke about it today, in favor of the notion. What's in it for the Saudis?

POLLACK: Well, it's helpful for the Saudis to do this, because the Saudi people are very concerned about this war. They have no love lost for Saddam Hussein. In fact, most Saudis recognize that Iraq would be a lot better off without him.

But they're very concerned about the fate of the Iraqi people. Most Saudis are afraid that the Iraqi people are going to suffer in another war. So it's good for the Saudi government to do this as a way of saying, Look, we've tried every option, and this is the last resort.

When they have got to give us permission to mount the attack against Iraq, and I think all indications are that they are going to allow us to at least use their air spaces and their bases, this way they can turn to their people and say, We tried every possible way to avert this, and Saddam wouldn't take us up on it.

ANDERSON: So you don't even think the Saudis really believe this could happen?

POLLACK: I think that the Saudis recognize that this is, at best, a real long shot.

ANDERSON: Why now? Is this just buying time because we're not ready militarily?

POLLACK: Well, certainly there is an element of that involved. Certainly for the United States, we're not ready militarily. And I think that the administration is actually doing the smart thing, which is using the time remaining before we're ready to try to build a larger diplomatic coalition.

For the Saudis, again, they recognize that time is running out, that it is simply a matter of weeks before we go to war with Iraq. And they really want to show their people in these last weeks before everyone goes to war with Iraq that they tried everything.

At the 11th hour, they were still trying to find a way to solve this short of war.

ANDERSON: It is obviously a, you know, a sort of a last-minute solution, if it works. I mean, it would be great, as we said in the beginning, it would be cheap, it would save lives. But how real is it, I mean, bottom line?

POLLACK: Realistically, this is exceedingly unlikely. And look, I always remember what one of my old bosses at CIA said once, which was, We're not going to predict what Saddam Hussein will not do, because he is capable of doing things that no one would have predicted.

But what we know about this man, everything that we've seen from him for the past 34 years, everything that we're seeing now, indicates that the likelihood he is going to go into exile before the American tanks reach Baghdad is incredibly slight.

I think, you know, basically, this is just not a realistic proposition. And I think there are a lot of people out there who are engaging in wishful thinking in believing that this is a realistic alternative.

ANDERSON: You know, Nic Robertson showed us earlier today Saddam Hussein on Iraqi TV, you know, dictating to his generals how to, you know, allegedly fight against any U.S. forces. He was sitting there smoking a cigar. He looked calm, he looked collected. Does he really believe he can wriggle out of this? And perhaps the more pressing question, can he actually wriggle out of this?

POLLACK: Well, I certainly think that he thinks he can. All the evidence that we're seeing, including the bits that you were just talking about, are Saddam's actually quite confident right now. And Saddam is a congenital optimist. It's one of the problems we have with Saddam Hussein, is that he always believes that he is going to survive, even if he's in a tight situation.

Because he's always done so. For 65 years, he's been wriggling out of tight situations, and he's pretty convinced he can do it now. And in fact, I think what he's seeing from the French and the Germans in particular are just making him more confident.

He said a number of weeks ago, he said publicly, All I need to do is play for time. All I need to do is string this out for a few months, and then British and American public opinion are going to collapse, and they won't be able to go to war.

And every time he hears the French and the Germans saying things like they will veto a U.S. move in the U.N. to get a second resolution unless we give the inspectors several more months, he looks at that and says, This is playing exactly into my favor.

Can he get away with it? As far as I'm concerned, I don't think he can. I listened to the president Tuesday night in the State of the Union, and I think the president made it pretty clear he intends to go to war with Saddam unless he flees. And as I said, I think it is exceptionally unlikely Saddam is going to take him up on that offer.

ANDERSON: All right. Ken Pollack, thanks lot. Appreciate having you here on NEWSNIGHT. Thank you.

POLLACK: Any time, Anderson, thank you.

ANDERSON: All right.

Coming up on NEWSNIGHT, the cold case file. A remarkable story. Two police officers murdered nearly half a century ago. Has their killer finally been caught?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDERSON: I want to take you back to 1957, July 23. This was the headline on the front page of "The L.A. Times," "Siege set up in beach area for killer of two policemen." Under that was a photo of one of the policemen's wives looking distraught and her three young kids, right there, as you see it.

The investigation went nowhere, one of those mysteries that events just disappear from the papers altogether.

It did not, however, disappear for the families or for police, who do not forget cop killers so easily. And now their persistence, along with some modern technology, has led to an arrest more than four decades after the crime.

Some background now. Here's Frank Buckley.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It happened during a routine traffic stop 45 years ago, when Officers Richard Phillips and Milton Curtis pulled over a 1949 Ford.

JACK WAYT, EL SEGUNDO POLICE CHIEF: What they did not know at the time was that the driver had just committed a robbery, rape, and kidnapping in the city of Hawthorne.

BUCKLEY: Of teenagers on a lover's lane. But before Phillips and Curtis could make the connection, police say the driver of the car shot both officers to death.

It was a crime that shocked a community and gained national notoriety. "True Detective" profiled the case of the cop killer.

But as the years went by and the quiet lover's lane turned into this busy urban thoroughfare, the case went cold.

JOHN BOOTERBAUGH, FORMER EL SEGUNDO POLICE OFFICER: It haunted us for years -- for years.

CAPT. FRANK MERRIMAN, LOS ANGELES COUNTY SHERIFF: Well, we have boxes containing the files.

BUCKLEY: But it was never forgotten, says L.A. County sheriff's homicide captain, Frank Merriman.

MERRIMAN: We have sketches and composites.

BUCKLEY: Merriman showed us the boxes of material that had remained in storage.

MERRIMAN: They cover all of the over 3,000 clues, all of the over 400 guns that have been cleared, all of the suspects that have been brought in and eliminated over the course of 45 1/2 years.

BUCKLEY: And there were fingerprints from that 1949 Ford. But detectives working the case back then could never find a match. It was a time-consuming manual process of physically matching one print to another.

But then last year, an FBI database of fingerprints from across the U.S. came online, and detectives who weren't even born at the time Phillips and Curtis were killed made a match.

MERRIMAN: That is what broke this case. It gave us a focus, gave us a place to look. Without that, we had nothing.

BUCKLEY: Now the detectives did have something, and it led them here, to this comfortable Columbia, South Carolina, retirement community, to the home of 68-year-old Gerald Mason, who appeared in court 45 years after authorities allege he killed two police officers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And Mr. Mason, are you represented today by an attorney?

GERALD MASON: Yes, sir.

BUCKLEY: The grandfather, the man neighbors and friends know as a neighborhood helper and a fantastic bowler, left all of them in shock.

ERMA WILSON, NEIGHBOR: Of course I was shocked. I couldn't even believe it. I don't think anybody around here could believe it.

BUCKLEY: Mason's brother denied the allegations.

MURRAY MASON, MASON'S BROTHER: Nobody believes anything. This is ridiculous.

BUCKLEY: Mason is fighting extradition. Detectives are convinced he committed the crime, and L.A.'s law enforcement community came together in El Segundo to say the search for any cop killer is never over.

STEVE COOLEY, LOS ANGELES DISTRICT ATTORNEY: When it comes to killing a police officer, we don't forgive, we don't forget, we don't give up.

BUCKLEY: Frank Buckley, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON: Well, one of the men who did not give up is joining us now, Lieutenant Ray Peavy of the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department. He is in South Carolina tonight, where he took part in the arrest of Gerald Mason.

Lieutenant Peavy, thanks for joining us tonight.

As you were driving up to Mr. Mason's house, what was going through your mind?

LT. RAY PEAVY, LOS ANGELES COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT: I was thinking to myself how many times he must have taken this road, and felt so secure, being virtually -- at least probably 3,000 miles away from where this deadly thing occurred almost a half a century ago, and how safe he must feel here and how secure he must feel here, because, quite frankly, it was like another world away from this area where this thing happened.

ANDERSON: Not only another world, but another time. By all accounts, Mr. Mason has lived a life since this alleged event, this event happened that he was allegedly involved with, has led a law- abiding life. Was there any sense of regret on your part as you drove up to the house?

PEAVY: No, no regret at all. In fact, there was a great deal of anticipation on my part as far as realizing that this case that had been worked for so many years by so many dedicated folks, and a case that a lot of people had pretty much figured was never going to get solved, we were about to -- moments away -- solve this case. I did feel sorry for his family. I felt very concerned for his wife. But I felt no sorrow for Mr. Mason.

ANDERSON: So you knock on the door. I assume he answers the door, someone answers the door. He comes to the door. What then?

PEAVY: He came to the door. He was surprised. He, quite frankly, didn't seem to know what was going on. It was shortly after 7:00 in the morning, yesterday morning. And he was immediately told that we were there, law enforcement from Los Angeles County was there with a warrant for his arrest. And we also had a search warrant for his house.

He seemed stunned, but he was not outraged in any way, he just seemed almost stunned.

ANDERSON: And has he said anything to you since then?

PEAVY: No, he chose not to talk to us, which certainly is his right, and we went ahead and took him to a local law enforcement agency, one of the many that helped us in this case locally, and then we went about the business of searching his home.

COOPER: What happens now? He's fighting extradition. When is his hearing?

PEAVY: Well, he is fighting extradition.

He'll have a hearing tomorrow morning at 10:30. It's a hearing to see whether or not they will allow him to bail out, and, if they do, what that amount of bail will be. We will be there. And, certainly, our hope is that there will be no bail set. After that, then a period of time will go by, when the state of South Carolina and the state of California will -- a hearing will be held in South Carolina deciding whether or not the governor of South Carolina will extradite him to California.

COOPER: What was the feeling that went through your mind when you're doing this investigation, you find these fingerprints in the cold-case file, and you realize that there's databases now online, you send them in, and you get a match? What is that like? It's got to be remarkable.

PEAVY: Well, it was hard, really, to explain at this time.

I mean, it was ecstasy, I guess would be as good a way to describe the feeling as any, because the prints have been checked before. And when we sent them to our crime lab this time, we weren't aware, quite frankly, that there was a new system online that might give us more of a chance. And when we got the phone call the next day or, actually, later that day, that they had a hit, we were flabbergasted. I mean, we just couldn't believe it.

COOPER: Well, Lieutenant Peavy, thank you very much for joining us tonight. And I know it's been a lot of long hours for you and all the other people who have working on this case over the years. Congratulations. Thanks very, very much.

PEAVY: Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Thank you.

COOPER: As NEWSNIGHT continues: the secret records of a royal romance, the story of Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson, and what the police knew and we did not know until right now.

And later: a new college cheating scandal. The students were using cell phones to get answers during a test, but the school beat them at their own game.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Ahead on NEWSNIGHT: a royal love scandal, what the secret police records finally reveal.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: A few stories from around the globe tonight, beginning with a deadly crash near the Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan: A U.S. Army helicopter crashed, killing all four Americans on board. The helicopter was on a routine training mission. And a military spokesman says it does not look related to any hostile action.

The Cambodian capital of Phnom Penh is quiet now after nationalist rioters destroyed the Thai Embassy and hundreds of Thai citizens were evacuated. The riots seemed to be sparked by comments from a Thai actress that the ancient Angkor Wat temples actually belong to Thailand. The actress has denied saying it.

In the Ivory Coast, foreigners lined up for flights out of the country. They fear more violence if, as many expect, a peace deal falls apart that is just a few days old. That deal was brokered by the French, the former colonial power in the Ivory Coast. A civil war has been going on there now for four months.

And a new gadget will give us the bird's-eye view of the sun. It is a solar storm detector that will send realtime images to forecasters. That should help them spot a sun storm before it reaches our atmosphere. Solar outbursts can cause disruptions in communication, electrical services and other high-tech businesses.

All right, so I admit, I find it a little hard to get my brain around this next story. Here it is in a nutshell. There's some nobody American going out with the king of England, but that's not enough for you. You have to go out with someone else at the same time. And that someone else is a car salesman. The human heart truly is a strange little muscle.

Newly released documents reveal that Wallis Simpson, the temptress who led King Edward to give up his throne in the 1930s, was seeing someone else on the side, the car salesman.

Who else could do this story besides Richard Quest?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RICHARD QUEST, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's always been viewed as one of the great love affairs of the 20th century.

He was Edward VIII. She was Wallis Simpson, an American, twice divorced, who the British government refused to allow to become queen. Now the British are discovering that Mrs. Simpson was a woman with more than just a past. Police reports from 1935 show that, while she was seeing Edward, Mrs. Simpson was also having an affair with a car salesman called Guy Trundle. He's described as a charming adventurer and a good dancer.

Mrs. Simpson showered Trundle with gifts. And, in the quaint words of the 1930s, she enjoyed intimate relations with him.

(on camera): The decision to publish these papers became possible following the death of the queen mother last year. She'd had a lifelong dislike of Wallis Simpson, blaming her for the abdication, which brought the burden of kingship upon the shoulders of her husband. The queen mother did everything possible to prevent Wallis Simpson from having any royal connections.

(voice-over): The papers also show that the then prime minister, Stanley Baldwin, refused to allow Edward to appeal directly to the British empire in a radio address. And they suggest, in the final days before the abdication, Edward was nearing a nervous breakdown.

In the end, Edward gave up the throne with the famous line that he could not continue as king without the help and support of the woman he loved. The capacity of this 70-year-old love story to throw up new facts will astound even those used to royal scandals.

Richard Quest, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: All right, I get it now. He was a good dancer. That explains everything.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT: College kids who dreamed up high-tech way to cheat found their teachers had a few old-school tricks of their own.

And later, our "On the Rise" series returns with a look at an up- and-coming Broadway producer.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Next on NEWSNIGHT: phoning in the answers, literally.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: North Carolina's governor today called it a miracle that 100 workers were not killed in the fire and explosion at a medical equipment factory in the city of Kinston. That's the one we told you about last night. And judging by the pictures a day later, it's easy to see why he said that. Three people were killed. One is still missing. At least 10 were critically injured. Federal investigators spent the day interviewing witnesses, so far, though, no answer to what caused the disaster. Police in Flint, Michigan, are asking for help identifying the driver whose propane truck plunged off the highway this morning, fell on to a railroad track, burst into flames. The flames melted power lines, destroyed a chunk of interstate, and shut down rail traffic between Chicago and points north.

And a group representing police officers is suing Ford. The National Association of Police Organizations filed papers today in Manhattan federal court. The lawsuit claims the company failed to fix a defect that causes Ford Crown Victorias to burst into flames when hit from behind. About 80 percent of all police cruisers in the country are Crown Vics.

So, this is the story we told you about a little bit earlier on. They were taking a course called business management 220. If you ask me, they should have been taking ethics and morality 101. Students at the University of Maryland allegedly used their cell phones to get the answers to an exam from friends outside the classroom. The answers were, for some reason, posted on the Internet while the test was going on.

The students used a high-tech way to cheat and the professors used a simple, low-tech way to outfox them. The answers they posted were bogus.

Joining us now: a veteran reporter who has been covering the story for the paper, "The Diamondback," Jeremy Hsieh.

Jeremy, thanks for being with us.

JEREMY HSIEH, "THE DIAMONDBACK": Thank you.

COOPER: So, how did this happen? I understand about 12 students so far have been implicated. Six have actually confessed to it. What did they try to do?

HSIEH: Well, basically, after the answers were posted, someone from outside or the kids themselves from inside the test who had really high-tech PDAs or cell phones accessed the Internet. And if they were inside, they just went directly to the Web site and logged in and got the answers themselves from the Web site.

COOPER: Why were these answers put online?

HSIEH: They haven't really been able to answer that.

The first time around, on one of the exams previous to the final, where they were caught, I don't know why they were put on and nobody could give me an answer why they were posted early. But the second time around, they had received a tip after the first exam that said -- the instructors had received a tip that someone had been cheating using these cell phones.

So word got around. And then the third time -- for the final exam, actually -- I'm sorry -- the instructors got together and decided, let's post a bogus answer key online and then we'll know exactly who has cheated, because the answers will be wrong and they'll match with our fake answer key.

COOPER: Right. What happens now? As I said, 12 students have been implicated. I believe six have already confessed. What do they face now? Are they going to get expelled?

HSIEH: Well, everything that I've heard from the Student Honor Council has said that they probably won't. They probably will be expelled if they had a previous record of some kind of academic dishonesty.

But everything right now indicates that, no, they won't be expelled. They will receive an X-F for a grade on their transcript. And the X means failure do to academic dishonesty. So, it's a nasty mark. And 12 months from now, they can take a course in academic integrity. If they pass that, the X will be removed, but they still have the F. And if they have freshman status, they can actually retake the course for credit.

COOPER: OK, now you're a reporter at "The Diamondback." I've got to tell you, you don't look old enough to even be in college. But you're allegedly a reporter at "The Diamondback," which I've been assured is true.

How did you find out about this story? Was this sort of widely known?

HSIEH: I think it was somewhat widely known. But I actually found out from my news editor. He knew because -- my news editor, Scott Goldstein at "The Diamondback" -- and he had heard because he had friends in the class, immediately afterwards, I guess, the day it happened.

COOPER: So not only were they cheating, but they were then talking about cheating, bragging about cheating?

HSIEH: Yes, apparently. I'm not sure if it was bragging in particular. But people in the class had heard people come out of the test saying, whoa, wow, that was real easy because I got all the answers through my phone or something like that. So, call it what you want.

COOPER: When you heard it, did it surprise you? Does this kind of thing go on?

HSIEH: I'm sure there's a lot of cheating that goes on that people don't catch. It didn't surprise really me, because the technology is there. And if the answers are there, people will find ways to cheat.

COOPER: Did it surprise you that the teachers sort of came up with this solution to kind of trick the cheaters?

HSIEH: You know, it did. That seemed like a very aggressive way to catch cheaters. And that's actually facing some scrutiny right now from a lawyer at the student legal aid office on campus.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: What sort of scrutiny?

HSIEH: Well, he's calling it -- he's accusing the instructors that did this of entrapment, because they think maybe this was too aggressive and not necessarily all the students showed a predisposition to cheating.

COOPER: But it sounds like, basically, the system that's in place, it behooves them not to really fight this too much. If they just kind of admit to this and then take some course in not cheating again, this will be erased from their records.

HSIEH: Right. Actually, if they choose not to confess, if they don't accept responsibility for the academic dishonesty, they can have a hearing in front of the Student Honor Council, which is a body of peers that metes out punishment or penalties for this kind of thing. And they'll decide. And that could take months, is what the chairman of the Student Honor Council has told me.

COOPER: All right, Jeremy Hsieh, I appreciate you joining us tonight. It's a fascinating story. Good work on breaking it. Thanks for joining us.

HSIEH: Thank you very.

COOPER: All right.

Still ahead on NEWSNIGHT: "On the Rise." Our series returns with a look at a young Broadway producer making her mark in a profession still dominated by men.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: I want to you meet a young woman who has already scored some off-Broadway hits and is determined to break into the boys club of the most powerful producers on Broadway.

Her name is Arielle Tepper. And she is "On the Rise."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ARIELLE TEPPER, BROADWAY PRODUCER: Mad rush to the box office.

What time is the deadline? How about between shows Saturday? Do we know if he's definitely not performing tonight? People are buying tickets for the two of them. And if they're both sick -- can I go back to the tickets and the seats for one second?

I was about 8 or 9 years old. And I went to see "Annie." And I just fell in love with this little girl on stage and said, this is what I want to do. And within 24 hours, I was screaming at my parents: I want to take tap dancing lessons and singing lessons and acting and everything. And I just -- that was it.

My freshman year in high school, my acting teacher said to me, listen, I'm not going to cast you in anything. And I realized that, as an actor, you're not going to be cast because of this, that or the other thing. And I was like, OK, well, maybe I have to find another way to do this.

I saw "Les Mis" and I just cried and cried. And like the next day, I was walking around London and I saw ads for "Les Mis" on every bus, every billboard. It just felt like it was everywhere. And I was like, who did this? Who made those decisions? By the time I graduated from college, I had had five internships. So, I felt like I had kind of worked for everyone. So, I went home and I said, dad, I don't know what to do.

He said, look, you wanted to do this your whole life. This isn't a new decision for you. So now is your chance. Figure if you can do it.

Good afternoon, Arielle Tepper Productions.

They'd have to be done by 4:30. Should we send you an invite? Tomorrow at 3:30. Just really, really try to be on time.

I started this company to bring people theater who are my age who could connect to what's going on on stage.

Could we have any questions that don't pertain to the other stuff while we have him? So, let's have our meeting.

There are all different ways that you can actually start working on a show.

Talk to her and see if there's anything that she can help us do. Like, let's get them as excited as we are.

Meeting a writer that you want to work with, meeting a new director you want to work with, reading a script. We get scripts sent to us all the time. The first show I produced is "Freak." The second I produced was "Sandra Bernhard." The third show I got involved in was called "De La Guarda." James Joyce's "The Dead." Last year was "A Class Act."

Hi, guys.

New script pages. This is what was today? OK. So how'd today go? So, what were the little cuts?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Little snips in the scene.

TEPPER: That sounds great. And you guys feel good about it?

Have a good show, honey.

There's an amazing energy in the building of live performances. Within minutes, 1,100 people are going to be in the seats and, hopefully, laughing hysterically at what you're showing them and feeling entertained and just having a great time.

Still there.

I can't believe that I get to go to bed every night and wake up and this is my life.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: I love "De La Guarda."

That's it for NEWSNIGHT. Have a good night. See you tomorrow.

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