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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown

Bush: Time Running Out For Hussein to Disarm

Aired January 31, 2003 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANDERSON COOPER, HOST: Good evening again, everyone.
You know listening to Larry talk about the cast of "Will & Grace," it's hard not to think about how much TV is likely to change very soon. As popular as "Will & Grace" is right now, reality TV -- and believe me, I use that term loosely -- is the hottest genre on the airwaves.

We have "The Bachelor," "The Bachelorette," "Joe Millionaire," "The Mole," -- been there, done that -- and "American Idol," just to name a few. Now it's easy to get caught up in these increasingly bizarre spectacles. The hot tubs, the bug eating, the secret bondage life of the so-called stars. But then something happens which reminds us that the next television program to grip viewers might be just around the corner. Perhaps in a mail truck near you.

Today we all sat around mesmerized, and we're sure plenty of you did as well, watching a slow-speed chase involving a postal truck in Miami. We could not turn the channel. There was no need for midgets in harnesses or women named Mojo (ph) or creepy contractors pretending to be creepy millionaires. Just a postal truck and cop cars and TV helicopters. Real life.

Today's episode ended well, as we'll tell you about in a moment. But after a quick look at the headlines, we think it is fair to say in the coming weeks and months we are likely to see a lot more reality TV. Reality not from the minds of Hollywood producers, but from military planners. Reality in a desert far away.

We go now to "The Whip" and the White House, where the president met today with his closest allies. Senior White House correspondent John King is there.

John, the headline, please.

JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And Anderson, that ally, the British Prime Minister, Tony Blair, told reporters on his way back to London tonight he is confident the United Nations Security Council within a few weeks will pass a second resolution authorizing the use of military force against Iraq. The White House for weeks had resisted seeking a second resolution, but the president reluctantly gave his blessing today, a favor to his close ally Mr. Blair -- Anderson.

COOPER: All right. More on that in a moment, John. A very troubling story, also, about one of those other countries in the so-called axis of evil, North Korea. Andrea Koppel is on that tonight from the State department.

Andrea, a headline.

ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, there is never a good time for a story like this to leak, but for the Bush administration, the timing couldn't be worse. Today, news that U.S. spy satellites show that North Korea may be taking another step closer towards producing nuclear weapons.

COOPER: On to that mesmerizing standoff in Miami we just mentioned. John Zarrella is covering the story.

John, the headline.

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, a couple of what police describe as "career criminals" attempted to rob a mail truck in Miami. It ended up in a five-hour very slow-speed chase and a standoff before it was all resolved -- Anderson.

COOPER: All right. Back with all of you in a moment.

Also coming up tonight on NEWSNIGHT for Friday, January 31, 2003, shooting under fire. Images of war and the people who capture them. If you think Geraldo Rivera is a war correspondent, you should see these photographs. What real war coverage is like.

And you've heard of Toys For Tots. But do you know about Guns For Tots? A new program set up by activists in New York, Guns For Tots. As far as a tease goes, that's about as good as it gets.

And if you think making movies is easy, wait until you hear about this cinematic train wreck. At least the director knows how to laugh. We think you will too. That is "Segment 7," worth sticking around for tonight.

But first, Iraq at the end of a very busy week. Britain's Prime Minister Tony Blair headed home tonight, as John King just reported, from his strategy session with President Bush. The two men saying no decision has been made to go to war. Both agreeing, though, that time is running out and patience wearing thin.

Mr. Blair again pledged his support in case of war, but also pushed for the president to ask the U.N. Security Council to explicitly approve the use of force.

The story now from CNN's John King.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KING (voice-over): The president gave reluctant blessing to a new United Nations Security Council resolution, but warned any new deadline must fall within weeks.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Any attempt to drag the process on for months will be resisted by the United States.

KING: Prime Minister Blair believes a second resolution could ultimately persuade skeptics like France and Russia to agree that Iraq is again in breach of its commitment to disarm.

TONY BLAIR, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: And, therefore, what is important is that the international community comes together again and makes it absolutely clear that this is unacceptable.

KING: The two leaders were tight lipped, a reflection of the difficult diplomacy ahead. But senior U.S. officials tell CNN that if there is a new Security Council resolution, the White House will insist on a hard deadline for full Iraqi compliance within the next several weeks, and an immediate move to military action if Iraq fails to comply.

BUSH: This needs to be resolved quickly.

KING: Both leaders voiced scorn at Iraq's invitation for the chief U.N. weapons inspectors to return to Baghdad for more talks.

BUSH: There's no negotiations. The idea of calling inspectors in to negotiate is a charade.

KING: The United States has no closer ally in the showdown with Saddam, but there are tactical differences. Mr. Bush had hoped to avoid negotiations on another Security Council resolution, but Mr. Blair faces stiff political opposition back home and wants to make every effort to win the U.N.'s blessing if it comes to war.

BLAIR: They have to cooperate with the inspectors. They're not doing it. If they don't do it through the U.N. route, then they will have to be disarmed by force.

KING: The focus turns now to the United Nations, a tough presentation by Secretary of State Powell next week and urgent efforts to craft a new resolution.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KING: And again, Prime Minister Blair tonight saying he is confident such a resolution will be agreed upon in the Security Council. The White House is not so confident but it says it will give it a go, also making clear though it will opt out of those negotiations if they bog down. The Vice President Dick Cheney saying today the United States will not have its hands tied by others. And the president saying he believes he already has the authority to go to war if necessary under existing U.N. resolutions -- Anderson.

COOPER: John, we've been hearing over the last couple of days about the pressure that Tony Blair is under at home. I believe there's sort of a now infamous photograph of him on the front page of one of the British dailies with, you know, blood painted on his hands. Did he talk about that at all today? About what kind of opposition he is facing at home? KING: We are told that at the meeting he did acknowledge the opposition back home, but also said he was determined to go forward despite it. But this request for a second resolution came urgently from Prime Minister Blair and others in the British government, saying that it is very necessary for him back home to demonstrate he is giving every opportunity to work through the United Nations.

It also comes amid some indications that the Russians, at least, and perhaps the French, are willing to come around if the United States and Britain give diplomacy a little more time. So the president giving in today. President Bush facing rising opposition in the polls here at home as well.

The president giving into a prospect of a second resolution. They insist here, though, Anderson, if this is not all resolved by middle to late February, the president will once again make clear he will walk away from the United Nations if necessary.

COOPER: All right. Well no doubt all eyes will be on the U.N. next week. John King, thanks very much at the White House.

Secretary Powell's presentation on Wednesday is expected to highlight the shortcomings of the U.N. inspection process. More precisely, show what the U.S. believes the inspectors are not finding. A lot of back and forth in the last couple of days and weeks about how much to show and by extension how much to reveal about America's spy machinery.

"Newsweek's" Michael Isikoff has a new story out that says perhaps we'll be getting more of an eye and earful than expected. He joins us tonight in Washington. Michael, what have you learned?

MICHAEL ISIKOFF, SR. INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, "NEWSWEEK": Well, basically that the administration has made an extraordinary decision to use super sensitive electronic intercepts from the national security agency to prove its case that the Iraqis are not complying with the U.N. resolution. They have been -- the NSA has been monitoring conversations among Iraqi officials ever since the inspectors arrived back in Iraq two months ago. And officials say they have extraordinarily detailed conversations proving rather conclusively that the Iraqis have been deceiving the inspectors.

They've got real-time intercepts of Iraqis talking among themselves about hiding the evidence, weapons material from the inspectors. And even in some cases boasting about their success at keeping the weapons material away from the inspectors. The U.S. intelligence officials who have seen this say this is the strongest evidence they've got. It's compelling, it's dramatic and it will at least prove that the Iraqis have not been complying with the U.N. resolution.

There are some caveats here. There's ambiguity to the conversations. It's not entirely clear what it is they're hiding. It doesn't necessarily mean it's chemical and biological weapons themselves. It could refer to precursors of material, it could refer even to documents and computer discs as opposed to weapons. So it's not the smoking gun that proves Iraq has a chemical and biological weapons stockpile. It is, officials say, very compelling evidence that they have not been complying with the U.N. resolution.

COOPER: I'm reading from the "Newsweek" Web site, your article which was posted earlier today on newsweek.com. You quote one intelligence official as saying, "Hold on to your hat, we've got it."

Do you have any sense of exactly -- I mean how specific it gets? I mean I know you said some of it is sort of ambiguous. Is it, oh, I can't believe we got away with hiding that batch of chemical weapons or is it more...

ISIKOFF: Yes, there are conversations that at least officials -- we haven't seen them, so it's always hard to know until you do -- but officials say -- and not just political appointees at the White House who are trying to argue the case for war -- but career intelligence officials who have seen it say there are specific conversations that are unambiguous that the Iraqis are hiding stuff from the inspectors. They're talking about hiding it. They're saying you've got to move that around. You can't let them see that.

So that part of the case will be compelling. Now that's not all Secretary Powell is going to present. There's a broader mosaic. Satellite photos, human intelligence, others that will point to perhaps what could be considered more alarming, which is actual weapons themselves. But the best evidence that the administration has we are told is these electronic intercepts.

COOPER: We've been hearing a lot in the last couple of days -- I think I talked to David Ensor here last night, who said there's been this debate within the administration, within the intelligence community, how much to reveal, what would be giving away sources and methods. Do you know much about the background discussions that went on to making this decision to let Powell go ahead?

ISIKOFF: Yes. It is highly unusual for any administration to use publicly evidence of this kind. In fact, most of the time officials are loath to even acknowledge that there is such a thing as electronic intercepts. It's just never done.

In fact, it hasn't been used in this case, we say in the story, in anything like this since the last analogy during the Reagan administration, when they were trying to prove that Libya was behind the bombing of the West Berlin discotheque in 1986. But the fact that they are going to use this evidence is probably also the strongest evidence that they really do plan on military action here, because the traditional argument against using the stuff is, you dry up the source of intelligence.

You know, you tip off the people whose conversations are being monitored that you're listening in. If you don't care anymore, because we know that we don't need any further source of intelligence along these lines, which seems to be the judgment that the White House has made, then you lay it all out there. And as I said, it is an extraordinary move and it does suggest that at least the White House has pretty much made up its mind which way this is going.

COOPER: My final question, Colin Powell is appearing Wednesday at the U.N. I mean is he going to be bringing a tape recorder with him and hitting play and playing this in front of everyone? Do we know?

ISIKOFF: We don't know that. I doubt that they would do that. There probably would be transcripts. It's not clear would they identify specifically which Iraqis are talking.

There may still be some debate and some challenge among skeptics, saying these are selective conversations, we need to see the whole context. This is always the problem again when you're trying to make a case like this. But it is -- at least officials who have seen it say it's compelling and they expect Secretary Powell -- and Secretary Powell, remember, was the cautionary note (ph) within the administration here. And the fact that he's willing to go out there and make the case as he is, is in large part stems because officials became convinced -- he became convinced that the evidence, the strength of the evidence was in fact there.

COOPER: Well, based on your reporting, it sounds like it will be quite a PowerPoint presentation. Thanks very much, Michael Isikoff. Appreciate you joining us from "Newsweek."

ISIKOFF: Thank you.

COOPER: We go now to North Korea. Remember North Korea? Tonight the commander of American forces in the Pacific is asking for more planes and ships to replace the chunk of his fleet now steaming to the Persian Gulf. He says he needs the forces to signal North Korea that the U.S. is not letting down its guard. No decision yet we're told from the Pentagon.

It's safe to say it will be one of many even tougher calls to come, now that North Korea has taken yet another step closer to making nuclear weapons.

Here again, CNN's Andrea Koppel.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL (voice-over): U.S. officials say satellite images like these appear to show trucks transporting some of North Korea's 8,000 spent nuclear fuel rods. Officials aren't sure, but they believe the rods are now being moved from the Pyongyang facility to reprocess them and turn them into nuclear weapons.

RICHARD BOUCHER, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: Any movement of the spent fuel rods at Pyongyang would be a very serious development for the international community. It would be another step in the wrong direction by North Korea.

KOPPEL: If true, experts estimate that North Korea, a Stalinist state with the world's fourth largest army, could begin producing weapons-grade plutonium in just two months.

JOHN WOLFSTHAL, CARNEGIE ENDOWMENT: There is not a more dangerous place on the planet today, including Iraq, including South Asia. If North Korea goes nuclear, you're essentially turning on the green light to an arms race in east Asia, which could include South Korea, Japan and even Taiwan over the next couple of years.

KOPPEL: Experts say the situation could escalate quickly. North Korea could resume testing ballistic missiles. It could begin testing nuclear weapons, declare itself a nuclear power and proliferate nuclear material. But contrary to the way the U.S. is reacting to Iraq's alleged nuclear program, the Bush administration is playing down the standoff with North Korea, insisting it is not yet a crisis.

COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: We stand ready to build a different kind of relationship with North Korea, but only when it comes into verifiable compliance with its international commitments.

KOPPEL: But for Pyongyang, President Bush's tough talk during this week's State of the Union, according to one senior administration official, "threw another log on the fire."

BUSH: Today the North Korean regime is using its nuclear (UNINTELLIGIBLE) to incite fear and seek concessions.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're at the point of no return right now. Either the United States finds a way to turn off the North Korean nuclear program, or North Korea will become a full fledged nuclear weapons state.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL: And things could escalate even further. Although no date has been set, the International Atomic Energy Agency is expected to recommend that the United Nations place economic sanctions on North Korea, a move, Anderson, as you're well aware, the North Koreans have already threatened would be tantamount to a declaration of war.

COOPER: What have we heard from the South Koreans of late? I mean there had been a lot of diplomatic maneuvering the last couple of weeks. There was that trilateral meeting with Japan, South Korea, the U.S. What is going on now in the international front there?

KOPPEL: Well, just recently, in fact earlier this week, there was a high-level delegation. This was sent by the president-elect of South Korea. This delegation went to Pyongyang, met with senior North Korean officials, and in fact that's one of the reasons why the IAEA hasn't announced the date for this board of governors meeting, where they would then send the matter over to the United Nations, because the South Koreans said, please, don't do this now while we're having these sensitive talks in the North Korean capital.

COOPER: All right. Andrea Koppel, at the State Department, appreciate it. Thank you.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, reality TV. No midgets in harnesses, no strippers eating bugs, just real life. A slow-speed chase and the hostage standoff in Miami. We'll tell you how it all ended.

And later, the story of people who have seen war close up. Real war. Photographers and the mark it has left on them.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: When Tanya Mitchell woke up today to go to work, there's no way she knew what would be in store for her. In all likelihood, she thought it would be just a regular day. No big drama. Instead, the day and the drama chose her. Here again, CNN's John Zarrella.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ZARRELLA (voice-over): Television helicopters captured pictures of a slow-moving mail truck winding its way down the streets of northwest Miami-Dade County. In an oftentimes snail-paced pursuit, more than a dozen police cars. Behind the wheel of this hijacked mail truck, a female postal worker, Tanya Mitchell, who had been taken hostage and whom police credit with being instrumental in ultimately bringing about a peaceful end.

CARLOS ALVAREZ, MIAMI-DADE POLICE DIRECTOR: She was talking throughout the ordeal. She got on the phone with us and talked with us. And she's to be commended. I mean, she's a victim, but she really helped herself out.

ZARRELLA: Here's what police say happened. Williams had been taken hostage by this man, Nevia Abraham. Police say Abraham and Jonathan Hamilton, both with long, unsuccessful criminal histories, were attempting to rob the postal truck when police showed up. Hamilton was caught, but Abraham took off in the postal truck with his hostage.

During the chase, the vehicle stopped on several occasions. Abraham asking bystanders to borrow a cell phone. Police finally brought the chase to an end, laying spikes in the road that blew out the truck's tires. A police robot brought a cell phone to the truck and negotiations began.

SGT. MICHAEL LAURENT, POLICE HOSTAGE NEGOTIATOR: I was able to build some type of rapport with him to reach some kind of understanding to eventually get him to release the hostage and to get him to come out safe.

ZARRELLA: Before the mail carrier was safely released, her father arrived, clearly filled with anxiety.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You better take him out if he has my daughter. If he's hurting my daughter, you better take him out.

ZARRELLA: That never became necessary. About four and a half hours after the whole thing began, the postal worker was released. Thirty minutes later, Abraham, with hands over his head, walked backwards from the truck, knelt to the ground and surrendered to the SWAT team that had him surrounded.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZARRELLA: Police records show that Abraham and Hamilton had very extensive police records. In Abraham's case, dating back to the 1980s. In Hamilton's case, back to the 1970s. Everything from burglary to robbery to discharging a firearm to assault. Now the two men face both state and federal charges, and perhaps now these long career criminals' records will finally be over -- Anderson.

COOPER: John, as you well know, it was mesmerizing television. I mean the whole office sort of came to a stop watching this thing. Any word from Tanya Mitchell how she's doing, her thoughts on this whole escapade?

ZARRELLA: Tanya Mitchell was at police headquarters until late this evening. We talked to postal authorities this evening. And they said that she is doing fine, obviously very, very tired. But at this point she doesn't really want to talk about it to anyone but police and her family -- Anderson.

COOPER: Understandable. Thanks very much, John Zarrella. Appreciate it.

A few updates on two stories we brought to you earlier this week. First, the fate of Pakistanis living in the U.S. who say they fear the new requirement that they register with immigration authorities. We told you some had decided to leave for the north. Now it seems Canada has begun sending them back. They've been given appointments to return to Canada where they can be considered for asylum, but U.S. immigration can choose to detain or deport them if they see reason to do so.

And last night we told you about the man accused of two murders committed 45 years ago. Gerald Mason (ph), that his him there. A judge denied bail today for Mr. Mason (ph), who is accused of killing two policemen in California back in 1957. There were the two victims right there. The case had gone cold, until a new FBI data base recently linked one of Mason's (ph) fingerprints to the crime.

And one more story tonight, a troubling one from the southeast. Hospitals in Georgia and northern Florida were warned today to temporarily stop using some blood from the American Red Cross. They fear it's been contaminated with mysterious white particles. The Red Cross said it's nothing infectious and probably came from the plastic bags used to collect the blood.

Coming up still on NEWSNIGHT, images of war you will not soon forget. And the stories of the photographers who took them.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: A few stories from around world tonight, beginning with the war on terror in Europe. Italian authorities said today that 28 Pakistanis arrested yesterday had explosives, hundreds of forged documents, and maps of the Naples area with what they called sensitive targets circled. They were picked up yesterday during a routine sweep for illegal immigrants. We go to Afghanistan now, where police blame Taliban and al Qaeda fugitives for a bus bombing that killed at least 15 people near Kandahar today. The blast appeared to have been caused by a landmine placed overnight.

And the only good news to come out of a terrible rail crash today in Australia, the death toll has been revised down from nine to eight. Three people are listed as critically injured. It was the worst rail crash in that nation in more than a quarter century.

Robert Kappa, the legendary war photographer, once said if your pictures aren't good enough, you aren't close enough. He also said the thing a war photographer wishes for more than anything else is unemployment. We think Kappa put his finger on the essence of war photography, the attraction and the repulsion. The impulse not to look, the duty not to flinch.

In a moment we'll be showing you some images of war. Images that are not easy to look at we warn you, but given the headlines we think impossible to ignore. These images appear in a new volume called "Shooting Under Fire: The World of the War Photographer." The words and pictures now from the book's author and some of the photographers who contributed to it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PETER HOWE, AUTHOR, SHOOTING UNDER FIRE: War is one of the important themes of history, whether we like it or not, it is. It has been one of the important themes of photography from the very beginning. There is an enormous amount still of romance about war. And war is not a John Wayne movie.

I really find that people don't really know what it takes for a photograph to get from a war zone to the front page of your newspaper. And the kind of lives that these people live. I hope that the book will give a clearer picture to those who are interested of the life of the war photographer.

RON HAVIV, COMBAT PHOTOGRAPHER: I think that one of the things that people should understand is that war photography is not just about going to a front line, going to a trench and photographing a soldier with a gun. One of the main reasons that we do this work is to understand the ramifications of why those soldiers are there.

HOWE: Photographers go to war zones for many, many reasons. There are those photographers who really feel that their work will make a difference to warfare. They are witnessing and recording history. It may be the darkest moments of history, but it's important.

MAGGIE STEBER, COMBAT PHOTOGRAPHER: In war people die. And if nothing else, you can show that somebody lived and that that life meant something. Even if it's photographing a dead body, the fact that you photograph it, you document, it's somebody who had a life.

HOWE: Maggie Steber, she is a photographer who has covered Haiti extensively. And she's taken a photograph in the book of a corpse lying face down. And he's bleeding into the picture.

The color scheme is red and blue, which is the colors of the Haitian flag. And to her, the picture is symbolic of the agony that Haiti has gone through for many, many years. I think that brings up something else, which is often uncomfortable for photographers. Making a good composition from horrific material is very difficult to really reconcile.

STEBER: I don't know that you can ever escape the idea of being a voyeur when you cover war, because here you are running toward the very thing that most people in their right minds would be running away from.

HOWE: The ethical problems that war photographers face are absolutely enormous. And you have to take those decisions under the most difficult conditions that anyone could ever imagine.

HAVIV: To think that you're the last person that somebody sees before they die, I think, it's very hard to conceptualize that and understand it. But I've been in places where I have been able to intervene and save somebody. And there have been times where, unfortunately, people have been executed in front of me.

And when you're at that point, then have I to do my utmost to make sure that I can at least document that and tell the world what happened. With this photograph of the Bosnian prisoner with his hands in the air, they were dragging him along and I ran up just to get a photograph of him, a record that would exist of him being dragged off by the Serbian forces. And, as I did that, the soldier threw him down on the ground and said, take a picture. And so, I raised my camera and he raised his arms.

STEBER: What you see with your eyes and the horror of it isn't always -- it's not always possible to translate it into a picture.

I think you always have the image in your head. You carry that picture with you everywhere. And you can unload the film out of the camera, but you can't unload those images out of your head. And it does something to you.

HOWE: We're probably going to be sending young men and women into battle to fight on our behalf. I think that, as a nation, when we make those decisions, we should make them on the best information available and understand that war is not a pleasant experience for anyone involved and that there is a price to pay for everyone involved.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: You've just seen the work of a number of professional photographers. Though we couldn't speak to each of them, we wanted to acknowledge them and thank them for their contributions. Those are their names there.

And we also wanted to mention that one of them, David Turnley, has joined CNN as a contributor. And on Monday, he'll tell us the story of this photograph. You've probably seen it before. You probably will not forget it. It is a story taken on the last day of the last Gulf War.

As NEWSNIGHT continues: Is this man the next Michael Jordan? The story of a player so good, the pros are already talking about him and the trouble he's in over a set of clothing.

And later: Are they an innocent childhood toy or something so dangerous they should actually be banned? The debate over toy guns.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Next on NEWSNIGHT: the pressures of being the next Kobe Bryant.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Well, those of you missing Aaron -- and I'm sure there are a lot of you -- will at least get to hear his voice tonight. We'll have to settle for that.

He has a story about a young man with a certain talent, a talent so extraordinary that his life ceases to become his and his alone. And that's because this talent promises to make him and a lot of other people extraordinarily rich, heady stuff for someone not even old enough to drink. His name is LeBron James. And today, he was declared ineligible to finish out his basketball season because he accepted $845 in free clothing.

For most teenagers, this might feel like a life-ending blow, but, hey, most teenagers are not headed for the NBA.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AARON BROWN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He is just a kid, 18 years old.

DICK VITALE, ESPN: He has lived up to all the billing.

BROWN: And everyone, it seems, wants a piece of him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look at all the G.M.s and scouts sitting behind us here. They're here to see one guy and one guy only.

LEBRON JAMES, HIGH SCHOOL BASKETBALL PLAYER: We know it's a lot notoriety for me and my teammates. But I just go out and play my game every night and give it our all. But it's just getting better every day for our team and for myself.

BROWN: LeBron James is the next big deal, a high school senior who will go straight from high school to the NBA, straight from low- income housing to high-net-worth mansion. A $12 million deal is sitting there waiting.

BYRON SCOTT, HEAD COACH, NEW JERSEY NETS: His, awareness, his feel for the game is like no high school player I've ever seen, the way he can pass the ball. He rebounds. He can shoot it. His handle is great.

GRANT WAHL, "SPORTS ILLUSTRATED": He sees the game at a different speed and he sees things happen before other guys do.

BROWN: To be so young and so talented is not without its challenges. The limelight is shining on him in ways high schoolers only dream of. His school moved the team's home games to a larger arena and doubled the ticket prices. Some games have been aired on national TV and pay-per-view cable. Endorsement deals are being tossed around. And he is just a kid, a kid who has game, but a kid.

BRUCE HOWARD, NATIONAL FEDERATION OF STATE HIGH SCHOOL ASSOCIATIONS: From a national standpoint, the kinds of things that are going on with this situation are not the ideal situations and not the kind of things that we would like to happen. Certainly, the high school is taking advantage.

WAHL: And so you ask the question, is this right for high school sports? And it's hard to know. Like somebody has to say no. The school has to say no. The tournament organizers have to say no. The media conglomerates have to say no. Interestingly, LeBron himself is starting to say no a little bit, not a lot, but a little bit.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nothing but raves.

BROWN: If he joins the NBA out of high school, he'll enter a small fraternity of just 21 others who made the leap.

KOBE BRYANT, 1ST ROUND NBA DRAFT PICK: I saw the cameras coming in my direction over there at the table, I'm starting to think to myself, oh man, this could be it. I'm going to be playing in the NBA.

BROWN: The Lakers' Kobe Bryant did it. So did Minnesota's Kevin Garnett, but not without some difficulty.

SCOTT: When he gets to this level, this is a different beast you have to deal with. But as he matures and as you get older, everybody is going to respect the way he plays. But when he first comes into this league, every guy in this league is going to want a piece of him because he's a kid.

BROWN: But it appears the kid is coming, driving these days a $50,000 car, wearing sneakers a shoe company provided, and, just in case of injury, carrying in hand a multimillion dollar insurance policy.

LeBron James is growing up, ready or not.

Aaron Brown, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Ahead on NEWSNIGHT: What is a kid to do? -- not that kid. Why some people want to ban toy guns.

And later: the impossible dream that became, well, a hilarious nightmare. All this man wanted to do was make a movie.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: NEWSNIGHT continues with the question of gun control -- toy gun control.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: So, this next story sounds like something from the dangerous toy chest they have at "Saturday Night Live." Do you remember that, that big bag of broken glass that kids just loved, or happy fun ball, the ball with the glowing liquid core that causes temporary blindness and profuse sweating?

Well, this is an actual program called Guns for Tots being set up here in New York by some libertarian activists. They are angry about efforts to ban the sale and possession of toy guns, including the little purple plastic kind that squirt water. And they're going to try to put toy guns in the hand of Big Apple kids everywhere.

Joining us now from the Manhattan Libertarian Party, Jim Lesczynski.

We should add that Albert Vann, a New York City councilman who not only supports the ban, but is one of the sponsors of it, agreed to join us tonight. But late this evening, Mr. Vann called and said he doesn't want to debate the issue with someone outside the city council.

But, Jim, we appreciate you showing up, nevertheless.

JIM LESCZYNSKI, MANHATTAN LIBERTARIAN PARTY: Thank you.

COOPER: All right.

So, I'll talk about Guns for Tots in a moment. But, first of all, basically, what is the status? In New York, fake guns that look real are illegal.

LESCZYNSKI: Yes.

Fake guns that look real are already illegal. They have to be either lime green or bright orange or otherwise obviously colored fake. But now the city council wants to go one step further, because apparently a person could spray paint one of those guns black so that it looks real and then...

COOPER: So, under this new proposed law, any toy gun, it could be purple. It could be lime green. It could be a water gun. It could one of those big water shooter guns. They will all be banned?

LESCZYNSKI: They will all be banned, yes.

COOPER: And you oppose this because?

LESCZYNSKI: Because it's silly. It's a silly piece of legislation. We've all played with squirt guns when we were kids. Probably everybody watching this tonight had a squirt gun or a water pistol or a cap gun, played with them, enjoyed themselves, lived to tell the tale. And so this is really just overreaching on the city council's part.

COOPER: Well, now, the city council members, just to speak in their defense, what they will tell you is that there have been an increasing number of crimes involving toy guns.

In fact, from 1985 to 1989, there were a reported 31,650 imitation guns seized during crime-related incidents. People have actually been shot pointing toy guns at police officers. So, they say there's a need for this.

LESCZYNSKI: Right.

Well, what they're looking at is that, about once a year, somebody gets shot with a toy gun that they pretended was a real gun. They committed a crime. Unfortunately, the police officer has to assume it's a real gun and the person got shot. And that's terrible.

COOPER: So why not just outlaw them? Why not outlaw them?

LESCZYNSKI: Because using a gun and pretending it's real to commit a crime is already outlawed.

And somebody could always take two pieces of stick -- two sticks and paint them black and pretend they're a gun. They could stick their hand in their pocket, like they did in the old movies, and say, I've got a gun in my pocket; give me your money. So, there's no way to stop people from pretending they have a gun. Outlawing toy guns isn't going to do it.

COOPER: What the council members also say is that this will stop the development or is one step toward stopping the development of a culture of violence

(CROSSTALK)

LESCZYNSKI: No. That's silly. They're just Hoplophobes. They're afraid of guns.

COOPER: They're what?

LESCZYNSKI: Hoplophobes. That's somebody who has an irrational fear guns.

COOPER: OK.

LESCZYNSKI: And to have an irrational fear of toy guns is an extreme case of Hoplophobia.

COOPER: Wait. This is an actual term?

LESCZYNSKI: This is an actual word coined by Jeff Cooper in the 1960s, who was a noted gun authority. COOPER: Hoplophobia.

LESCZYNSKI: Hoplophobia. A Hoplophile is somebody who likes guns.

COOPER: So, this would be faux Hoplophobia.

LESCZYNSKI: Yes, this is faux Hoplophobia, fear of fake guns. And it's just absurd, because there's nothing to be afraid of. It's a squirt gun.

COOPER: But, obviously, there is a sort of, a lot of people will argue, a culture of violence that's propagated in movies and television and that toy guns are just one part of it. Why do kids need to play with toy guns?

LESCZYNSKI: Because you can't censor ideas. Taking away toy guns is not going to stop kids from being interested in violence and guns and playing cops and robbers cowboys and Indians and all the other things we did. We can't censor thoughts.

COOPER: All right. So, the thing that got my attention, at least, on this thing was this program that you are starting called Guns for Tots.

LESCZYNSKI: Right.

COOPER: Obviously something that is an attention-grabbing device. But what is Guns for Tots?

LESCZYNSKI: Well, we believed that silly legislation called for a silly response.

So, Guns for Tots is an actual charitable drive that we're doing. It's a toy drive. We're collecting cap guns, squirt guns and cash contributions to buy those toy guns from people over last week and this week. And this Thursday, after the city council hearing on this legislation, we're going to go out after school and give them to kids around New York City.

COOPER: Now, are you actually going to do this?

LESCZYNSKI: We're actually going to do that. We're actually collecting them. I'm getting donations coming in.

COOPER: How many toy guns have you collected so far?

LESCZYNSKI: So far, we have about 40. I had somebody from Rochester e-mail yesterday and said he just put 20 in the mail when he saw the story.

And we're having a big toy collection party tomorrow night at one of our favorite local taverns. And people are going to be coming from all over with toy guns and cash to help us buy them and help us put these guns in the hands of the kids before they turn into contraband and are illegal to even posses. COOPER: Now, my final question -- I have got to ask this because the council member would have probably asked this -- what if, God forbid, one of those guns that you have given out ends up being used in an attempted crime?

LESCZYNSKI: That would be a terrible thing, but I give the kids more credit than the council person does. I don't think they're going to do that. I think the kids in New York City know how to handle a squirt gun without getting themselves into trouble.

COOPER: All right, Jim Lesczynski of the Libertarian Party, thanks for being with us. Guns for Tots.

LESCZYNSKI: Thank you.

COOPER: Quite an ear-catching name. Thanks very much.

LESCZYNSKI: Good. Thanks.

COOPER: Next on NEWSNIGHT: Was it a curse or just an impossible dream? The story of one director's quest to follow that star, no matter how hopeless, no matter how far.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Finally, tonight, tilting at windmills.

Director Terry Gilliam didn't think he was when he set out to make his latest film. After all, he's made some of the most elaborate movies of all time: "Brazil," "Time Bandits," just to name a few. And he knows what a struggle it is to get movies made.

So, some old guy from La Mancha, piece of cake, right? Think again.

Here's CNN's Beth Nissen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BETH NISSEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Director Terry Gilliam is no stranger to the absurd, the preposterous. He was, after all, an original member of Monty Python's Flying Circus.

But even the fantastically inventive Gilliam couldn't have imagined how his quest to make a film adaptation of "Don Quixote" would turn out. In June of 200, Gilliam went to Spain to start the film and invited two young filmmakers, Louis Pepe and Keith Fulton, to document the making of a classic film story about the struggle between reality and fantasy, madness and sanity. That they did, in an utterly unexpected way.

LOUIS PEPE, DOCUMENTARY FILMMAKER: During the first week of this film, every day brought a new disaster. Every day brought a cataclysm of almost Biblical proportions.

KEITH FULTON, DOCUMENTARY FILMMAKER: We found ourselves in Madrid watching Terry's dream collapse around him.

NISSEN: This wasn't a big Hollywood production. Gilliam had a modest budget from European funders and a tight schedule. He didn't get his lead actors until just a few days before shooting started.

TERRY GILLIAM, ACTOR: I got an actor. I have an actor.

NISSEN: Johnny Depp, one of the film's stars, had almost no time to rehearse, nor did the film's Don Quixote, Jean Rochefort, a French actor who was to be doing his lines in English with a slight Spanish accent, not that anyone could hear him. Key scenes were shot too near a NATO bombing range.

GILLIAM: I don't want to waste time shooting dialogue.

FULTON: They had information that there would only be test bombings going on about an hour a day, but that information turned out to be only semi-reliable.

NISSEN: Also semi-reliable: weather forecasts.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a large bunch of lightning about to hit us.

PEPE: The almanacs had listed that, for this particular week of the year, it had not rained for 200 years.

NISSEN: Most crucially, the film's 70-year-old title character was ailing. Jean Rochefort found it wincingly difficult to sit astride a horse, a critical part Don Quixote's role.

PEPE: He was in pain from what turned out to be a double- herniated disc.

NISSEN: While Rochefort went back to Paris to see his doctors, Gilliam tried to shoot scenes that didn't involve him.

GILLIAM: You fiddle with the fish. Beat his brain out. And the horse comes up and nudges you over that way.

Action.

NISSEN: Johnny Depp knew his part, but hadn't rehearsed with the horse.

GILLIAM: Come on horse. Come on, horsy. Cut, cut, cut, cut, cut,, cut.

NISSEN: That's exactly what the financiers and accountants said when word came from Paris that Rochefort could not return to the set for weeks.

FULTON: And without Jean Rochefort, there was going to be no film. The French financing of the film was based largely on Jean Rochefort being cast in it. PEPE: It is the nature of filmmaking -- and this is something that's often hidden -- that it is an equal amount of business as it is art.

NISSEN: Gilliam's dream film, which he had been producing and editing in his head for more than a decade, was shut down.

PEPE: They had a schedule, I think, the was about an 85-day schedule, about 17 weeks. They only made it through six days.

NISSEN: Gilliam had only about 12 minutes of film in the can, a few scenes with Johnny Depp and this scene of marauding giants.

But Fulton and Pepe had 120 hours of material.

FULTON: And so Terry said to us, look, you guys may be the only people that get a film out of it. It certainly doesn't look like I'm going to get a film out of it. So make the film.

NISSEN: They did and titled it lost in "Lost in La Mancha."

PEPE: When we're feeling particularly bold, we like to claim that it's our own adaptation of Don Quixote.

NISSEN: The classic story of an idealist with what turned out to be an impossible dream.

Beth Nissen, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Man, I thought the news business was tough.

That's it for me this week. Thanks for putting up with me. Aaron Brown will be back on Monday.

Have a great weekend, everyone.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired January 31, 2003 - 22:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST: Good evening again, everyone.
You know listening to Larry talk about the cast of "Will & Grace," it's hard not to think about how much TV is likely to change very soon. As popular as "Will & Grace" is right now, reality TV -- and believe me, I use that term loosely -- is the hottest genre on the airwaves.

We have "The Bachelor," "The Bachelorette," "Joe Millionaire," "The Mole," -- been there, done that -- and "American Idol," just to name a few. Now it's easy to get caught up in these increasingly bizarre spectacles. The hot tubs, the bug eating, the secret bondage life of the so-called stars. But then something happens which reminds us that the next television program to grip viewers might be just around the corner. Perhaps in a mail truck near you.

Today we all sat around mesmerized, and we're sure plenty of you did as well, watching a slow-speed chase involving a postal truck in Miami. We could not turn the channel. There was no need for midgets in harnesses or women named Mojo (ph) or creepy contractors pretending to be creepy millionaires. Just a postal truck and cop cars and TV helicopters. Real life.

Today's episode ended well, as we'll tell you about in a moment. But after a quick look at the headlines, we think it is fair to say in the coming weeks and months we are likely to see a lot more reality TV. Reality not from the minds of Hollywood producers, but from military planners. Reality in a desert far away.

We go now to "The Whip" and the White House, where the president met today with his closest allies. Senior White House correspondent John King is there.

John, the headline, please.

JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And Anderson, that ally, the British Prime Minister, Tony Blair, told reporters on his way back to London tonight he is confident the United Nations Security Council within a few weeks will pass a second resolution authorizing the use of military force against Iraq. The White House for weeks had resisted seeking a second resolution, but the president reluctantly gave his blessing today, a favor to his close ally Mr. Blair -- Anderson.

COOPER: All right. More on that in a moment, John. A very troubling story, also, about one of those other countries in the so-called axis of evil, North Korea. Andrea Koppel is on that tonight from the State department.

Andrea, a headline.

ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, there is never a good time for a story like this to leak, but for the Bush administration, the timing couldn't be worse. Today, news that U.S. spy satellites show that North Korea may be taking another step closer towards producing nuclear weapons.

COOPER: On to that mesmerizing standoff in Miami we just mentioned. John Zarrella is covering the story.

John, the headline.

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, a couple of what police describe as "career criminals" attempted to rob a mail truck in Miami. It ended up in a five-hour very slow-speed chase and a standoff before it was all resolved -- Anderson.

COOPER: All right. Back with all of you in a moment.

Also coming up tonight on NEWSNIGHT for Friday, January 31, 2003, shooting under fire. Images of war and the people who capture them. If you think Geraldo Rivera is a war correspondent, you should see these photographs. What real war coverage is like.

And you've heard of Toys For Tots. But do you know about Guns For Tots? A new program set up by activists in New York, Guns For Tots. As far as a tease goes, that's about as good as it gets.

And if you think making movies is easy, wait until you hear about this cinematic train wreck. At least the director knows how to laugh. We think you will too. That is "Segment 7," worth sticking around for tonight.

But first, Iraq at the end of a very busy week. Britain's Prime Minister Tony Blair headed home tonight, as John King just reported, from his strategy session with President Bush. The two men saying no decision has been made to go to war. Both agreeing, though, that time is running out and patience wearing thin.

Mr. Blair again pledged his support in case of war, but also pushed for the president to ask the U.N. Security Council to explicitly approve the use of force.

The story now from CNN's John King.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KING (voice-over): The president gave reluctant blessing to a new United Nations Security Council resolution, but warned any new deadline must fall within weeks.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Any attempt to drag the process on for months will be resisted by the United States.

KING: Prime Minister Blair believes a second resolution could ultimately persuade skeptics like France and Russia to agree that Iraq is again in breach of its commitment to disarm.

TONY BLAIR, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: And, therefore, what is important is that the international community comes together again and makes it absolutely clear that this is unacceptable.

KING: The two leaders were tight lipped, a reflection of the difficult diplomacy ahead. But senior U.S. officials tell CNN that if there is a new Security Council resolution, the White House will insist on a hard deadline for full Iraqi compliance within the next several weeks, and an immediate move to military action if Iraq fails to comply.

BUSH: This needs to be resolved quickly.

KING: Both leaders voiced scorn at Iraq's invitation for the chief U.N. weapons inspectors to return to Baghdad for more talks.

BUSH: There's no negotiations. The idea of calling inspectors in to negotiate is a charade.

KING: The United States has no closer ally in the showdown with Saddam, but there are tactical differences. Mr. Bush had hoped to avoid negotiations on another Security Council resolution, but Mr. Blair faces stiff political opposition back home and wants to make every effort to win the U.N.'s blessing if it comes to war.

BLAIR: They have to cooperate with the inspectors. They're not doing it. If they don't do it through the U.N. route, then they will have to be disarmed by force.

KING: The focus turns now to the United Nations, a tough presentation by Secretary of State Powell next week and urgent efforts to craft a new resolution.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KING: And again, Prime Minister Blair tonight saying he is confident such a resolution will be agreed upon in the Security Council. The White House is not so confident but it says it will give it a go, also making clear though it will opt out of those negotiations if they bog down. The Vice President Dick Cheney saying today the United States will not have its hands tied by others. And the president saying he believes he already has the authority to go to war if necessary under existing U.N. resolutions -- Anderson.

COOPER: John, we've been hearing over the last couple of days about the pressure that Tony Blair is under at home. I believe there's sort of a now infamous photograph of him on the front page of one of the British dailies with, you know, blood painted on his hands. Did he talk about that at all today? About what kind of opposition he is facing at home? KING: We are told that at the meeting he did acknowledge the opposition back home, but also said he was determined to go forward despite it. But this request for a second resolution came urgently from Prime Minister Blair and others in the British government, saying that it is very necessary for him back home to demonstrate he is giving every opportunity to work through the United Nations.

It also comes amid some indications that the Russians, at least, and perhaps the French, are willing to come around if the United States and Britain give diplomacy a little more time. So the president giving in today. President Bush facing rising opposition in the polls here at home as well.

The president giving into a prospect of a second resolution. They insist here, though, Anderson, if this is not all resolved by middle to late February, the president will once again make clear he will walk away from the United Nations if necessary.

COOPER: All right. Well no doubt all eyes will be on the U.N. next week. John King, thanks very much at the White House.

Secretary Powell's presentation on Wednesday is expected to highlight the shortcomings of the U.N. inspection process. More precisely, show what the U.S. believes the inspectors are not finding. A lot of back and forth in the last couple of days and weeks about how much to show and by extension how much to reveal about America's spy machinery.

"Newsweek's" Michael Isikoff has a new story out that says perhaps we'll be getting more of an eye and earful than expected. He joins us tonight in Washington. Michael, what have you learned?

MICHAEL ISIKOFF, SR. INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, "NEWSWEEK": Well, basically that the administration has made an extraordinary decision to use super sensitive electronic intercepts from the national security agency to prove its case that the Iraqis are not complying with the U.N. resolution. They have been -- the NSA has been monitoring conversations among Iraqi officials ever since the inspectors arrived back in Iraq two months ago. And officials say they have extraordinarily detailed conversations proving rather conclusively that the Iraqis have been deceiving the inspectors.

They've got real-time intercepts of Iraqis talking among themselves about hiding the evidence, weapons material from the inspectors. And even in some cases boasting about their success at keeping the weapons material away from the inspectors. The U.S. intelligence officials who have seen this say this is the strongest evidence they've got. It's compelling, it's dramatic and it will at least prove that the Iraqis have not been complying with the U.N. resolution.

There are some caveats here. There's ambiguity to the conversations. It's not entirely clear what it is they're hiding. It doesn't necessarily mean it's chemical and biological weapons themselves. It could refer to precursors of material, it could refer even to documents and computer discs as opposed to weapons. So it's not the smoking gun that proves Iraq has a chemical and biological weapons stockpile. It is, officials say, very compelling evidence that they have not been complying with the U.N. resolution.

COOPER: I'm reading from the "Newsweek" Web site, your article which was posted earlier today on newsweek.com. You quote one intelligence official as saying, "Hold on to your hat, we've got it."

Do you have any sense of exactly -- I mean how specific it gets? I mean I know you said some of it is sort of ambiguous. Is it, oh, I can't believe we got away with hiding that batch of chemical weapons or is it more...

ISIKOFF: Yes, there are conversations that at least officials -- we haven't seen them, so it's always hard to know until you do -- but officials say -- and not just political appointees at the White House who are trying to argue the case for war -- but career intelligence officials who have seen it say there are specific conversations that are unambiguous that the Iraqis are hiding stuff from the inspectors. They're talking about hiding it. They're saying you've got to move that around. You can't let them see that.

So that part of the case will be compelling. Now that's not all Secretary Powell is going to present. There's a broader mosaic. Satellite photos, human intelligence, others that will point to perhaps what could be considered more alarming, which is actual weapons themselves. But the best evidence that the administration has we are told is these electronic intercepts.

COOPER: We've been hearing a lot in the last couple of days -- I think I talked to David Ensor here last night, who said there's been this debate within the administration, within the intelligence community, how much to reveal, what would be giving away sources and methods. Do you know much about the background discussions that went on to making this decision to let Powell go ahead?

ISIKOFF: Yes. It is highly unusual for any administration to use publicly evidence of this kind. In fact, most of the time officials are loath to even acknowledge that there is such a thing as electronic intercepts. It's just never done.

In fact, it hasn't been used in this case, we say in the story, in anything like this since the last analogy during the Reagan administration, when they were trying to prove that Libya was behind the bombing of the West Berlin discotheque in 1986. But the fact that they are going to use this evidence is probably also the strongest evidence that they really do plan on military action here, because the traditional argument against using the stuff is, you dry up the source of intelligence.

You know, you tip off the people whose conversations are being monitored that you're listening in. If you don't care anymore, because we know that we don't need any further source of intelligence along these lines, which seems to be the judgment that the White House has made, then you lay it all out there. And as I said, it is an extraordinary move and it does suggest that at least the White House has pretty much made up its mind which way this is going.

COOPER: My final question, Colin Powell is appearing Wednesday at the U.N. I mean is he going to be bringing a tape recorder with him and hitting play and playing this in front of everyone? Do we know?

ISIKOFF: We don't know that. I doubt that they would do that. There probably would be transcripts. It's not clear would they identify specifically which Iraqis are talking.

There may still be some debate and some challenge among skeptics, saying these are selective conversations, we need to see the whole context. This is always the problem again when you're trying to make a case like this. But it is -- at least officials who have seen it say it's compelling and they expect Secretary Powell -- and Secretary Powell, remember, was the cautionary note (ph) within the administration here. And the fact that he's willing to go out there and make the case as he is, is in large part stems because officials became convinced -- he became convinced that the evidence, the strength of the evidence was in fact there.

COOPER: Well, based on your reporting, it sounds like it will be quite a PowerPoint presentation. Thanks very much, Michael Isikoff. Appreciate you joining us from "Newsweek."

ISIKOFF: Thank you.

COOPER: We go now to North Korea. Remember North Korea? Tonight the commander of American forces in the Pacific is asking for more planes and ships to replace the chunk of his fleet now steaming to the Persian Gulf. He says he needs the forces to signal North Korea that the U.S. is not letting down its guard. No decision yet we're told from the Pentagon.

It's safe to say it will be one of many even tougher calls to come, now that North Korea has taken yet another step closer to making nuclear weapons.

Here again, CNN's Andrea Koppel.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL (voice-over): U.S. officials say satellite images like these appear to show trucks transporting some of North Korea's 8,000 spent nuclear fuel rods. Officials aren't sure, but they believe the rods are now being moved from the Pyongyang facility to reprocess them and turn them into nuclear weapons.

RICHARD BOUCHER, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: Any movement of the spent fuel rods at Pyongyang would be a very serious development for the international community. It would be another step in the wrong direction by North Korea.

KOPPEL: If true, experts estimate that North Korea, a Stalinist state with the world's fourth largest army, could begin producing weapons-grade plutonium in just two months.

JOHN WOLFSTHAL, CARNEGIE ENDOWMENT: There is not a more dangerous place on the planet today, including Iraq, including South Asia. If North Korea goes nuclear, you're essentially turning on the green light to an arms race in east Asia, which could include South Korea, Japan and even Taiwan over the next couple of years.

KOPPEL: Experts say the situation could escalate quickly. North Korea could resume testing ballistic missiles. It could begin testing nuclear weapons, declare itself a nuclear power and proliferate nuclear material. But contrary to the way the U.S. is reacting to Iraq's alleged nuclear program, the Bush administration is playing down the standoff with North Korea, insisting it is not yet a crisis.

COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: We stand ready to build a different kind of relationship with North Korea, but only when it comes into verifiable compliance with its international commitments.

KOPPEL: But for Pyongyang, President Bush's tough talk during this week's State of the Union, according to one senior administration official, "threw another log on the fire."

BUSH: Today the North Korean regime is using its nuclear (UNINTELLIGIBLE) to incite fear and seek concessions.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're at the point of no return right now. Either the United States finds a way to turn off the North Korean nuclear program, or North Korea will become a full fledged nuclear weapons state.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL: And things could escalate even further. Although no date has been set, the International Atomic Energy Agency is expected to recommend that the United Nations place economic sanctions on North Korea, a move, Anderson, as you're well aware, the North Koreans have already threatened would be tantamount to a declaration of war.

COOPER: What have we heard from the South Koreans of late? I mean there had been a lot of diplomatic maneuvering the last couple of weeks. There was that trilateral meeting with Japan, South Korea, the U.S. What is going on now in the international front there?

KOPPEL: Well, just recently, in fact earlier this week, there was a high-level delegation. This was sent by the president-elect of South Korea. This delegation went to Pyongyang, met with senior North Korean officials, and in fact that's one of the reasons why the IAEA hasn't announced the date for this board of governors meeting, where they would then send the matter over to the United Nations, because the South Koreans said, please, don't do this now while we're having these sensitive talks in the North Korean capital.

COOPER: All right. Andrea Koppel, at the State Department, appreciate it. Thank you.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, reality TV. No midgets in harnesses, no strippers eating bugs, just real life. A slow-speed chase and the hostage standoff in Miami. We'll tell you how it all ended.

And later, the story of people who have seen war close up. Real war. Photographers and the mark it has left on them.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: When Tanya Mitchell woke up today to go to work, there's no way she knew what would be in store for her. In all likelihood, she thought it would be just a regular day. No big drama. Instead, the day and the drama chose her. Here again, CNN's John Zarrella.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ZARRELLA (voice-over): Television helicopters captured pictures of a slow-moving mail truck winding its way down the streets of northwest Miami-Dade County. In an oftentimes snail-paced pursuit, more than a dozen police cars. Behind the wheel of this hijacked mail truck, a female postal worker, Tanya Mitchell, who had been taken hostage and whom police credit with being instrumental in ultimately bringing about a peaceful end.

CARLOS ALVAREZ, MIAMI-DADE POLICE DIRECTOR: She was talking throughout the ordeal. She got on the phone with us and talked with us. And she's to be commended. I mean, she's a victim, but she really helped herself out.

ZARRELLA: Here's what police say happened. Williams had been taken hostage by this man, Nevia Abraham. Police say Abraham and Jonathan Hamilton, both with long, unsuccessful criminal histories, were attempting to rob the postal truck when police showed up. Hamilton was caught, but Abraham took off in the postal truck with his hostage.

During the chase, the vehicle stopped on several occasions. Abraham asking bystanders to borrow a cell phone. Police finally brought the chase to an end, laying spikes in the road that blew out the truck's tires. A police robot brought a cell phone to the truck and negotiations began.

SGT. MICHAEL LAURENT, POLICE HOSTAGE NEGOTIATOR: I was able to build some type of rapport with him to reach some kind of understanding to eventually get him to release the hostage and to get him to come out safe.

ZARRELLA: Before the mail carrier was safely released, her father arrived, clearly filled with anxiety.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You better take him out if he has my daughter. If he's hurting my daughter, you better take him out.

ZARRELLA: That never became necessary. About four and a half hours after the whole thing began, the postal worker was released. Thirty minutes later, Abraham, with hands over his head, walked backwards from the truck, knelt to the ground and surrendered to the SWAT team that had him surrounded.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZARRELLA: Police records show that Abraham and Hamilton had very extensive police records. In Abraham's case, dating back to the 1980s. In Hamilton's case, back to the 1970s. Everything from burglary to robbery to discharging a firearm to assault. Now the two men face both state and federal charges, and perhaps now these long career criminals' records will finally be over -- Anderson.

COOPER: John, as you well know, it was mesmerizing television. I mean the whole office sort of came to a stop watching this thing. Any word from Tanya Mitchell how she's doing, her thoughts on this whole escapade?

ZARRELLA: Tanya Mitchell was at police headquarters until late this evening. We talked to postal authorities this evening. And they said that she is doing fine, obviously very, very tired. But at this point she doesn't really want to talk about it to anyone but police and her family -- Anderson.

COOPER: Understandable. Thanks very much, John Zarrella. Appreciate it.

A few updates on two stories we brought to you earlier this week. First, the fate of Pakistanis living in the U.S. who say they fear the new requirement that they register with immigration authorities. We told you some had decided to leave for the north. Now it seems Canada has begun sending them back. They've been given appointments to return to Canada where they can be considered for asylum, but U.S. immigration can choose to detain or deport them if they see reason to do so.

And last night we told you about the man accused of two murders committed 45 years ago. Gerald Mason (ph), that his him there. A judge denied bail today for Mr. Mason (ph), who is accused of killing two policemen in California back in 1957. There were the two victims right there. The case had gone cold, until a new FBI data base recently linked one of Mason's (ph) fingerprints to the crime.

And one more story tonight, a troubling one from the southeast. Hospitals in Georgia and northern Florida were warned today to temporarily stop using some blood from the American Red Cross. They fear it's been contaminated with mysterious white particles. The Red Cross said it's nothing infectious and probably came from the plastic bags used to collect the blood.

Coming up still on NEWSNIGHT, images of war you will not soon forget. And the stories of the photographers who took them.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: A few stories from around world tonight, beginning with the war on terror in Europe. Italian authorities said today that 28 Pakistanis arrested yesterday had explosives, hundreds of forged documents, and maps of the Naples area with what they called sensitive targets circled. They were picked up yesterday during a routine sweep for illegal immigrants. We go to Afghanistan now, where police blame Taliban and al Qaeda fugitives for a bus bombing that killed at least 15 people near Kandahar today. The blast appeared to have been caused by a landmine placed overnight.

And the only good news to come out of a terrible rail crash today in Australia, the death toll has been revised down from nine to eight. Three people are listed as critically injured. It was the worst rail crash in that nation in more than a quarter century.

Robert Kappa, the legendary war photographer, once said if your pictures aren't good enough, you aren't close enough. He also said the thing a war photographer wishes for more than anything else is unemployment. We think Kappa put his finger on the essence of war photography, the attraction and the repulsion. The impulse not to look, the duty not to flinch.

In a moment we'll be showing you some images of war. Images that are not easy to look at we warn you, but given the headlines we think impossible to ignore. These images appear in a new volume called "Shooting Under Fire: The World of the War Photographer." The words and pictures now from the book's author and some of the photographers who contributed to it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PETER HOWE, AUTHOR, SHOOTING UNDER FIRE: War is one of the important themes of history, whether we like it or not, it is. It has been one of the important themes of photography from the very beginning. There is an enormous amount still of romance about war. And war is not a John Wayne movie.

I really find that people don't really know what it takes for a photograph to get from a war zone to the front page of your newspaper. And the kind of lives that these people live. I hope that the book will give a clearer picture to those who are interested of the life of the war photographer.

RON HAVIV, COMBAT PHOTOGRAPHER: I think that one of the things that people should understand is that war photography is not just about going to a front line, going to a trench and photographing a soldier with a gun. One of the main reasons that we do this work is to understand the ramifications of why those soldiers are there.

HOWE: Photographers go to war zones for many, many reasons. There are those photographers who really feel that their work will make a difference to warfare. They are witnessing and recording history. It may be the darkest moments of history, but it's important.

MAGGIE STEBER, COMBAT PHOTOGRAPHER: In war people die. And if nothing else, you can show that somebody lived and that that life meant something. Even if it's photographing a dead body, the fact that you photograph it, you document, it's somebody who had a life.

HOWE: Maggie Steber, she is a photographer who has covered Haiti extensively. And she's taken a photograph in the book of a corpse lying face down. And he's bleeding into the picture.

The color scheme is red and blue, which is the colors of the Haitian flag. And to her, the picture is symbolic of the agony that Haiti has gone through for many, many years. I think that brings up something else, which is often uncomfortable for photographers. Making a good composition from horrific material is very difficult to really reconcile.

STEBER: I don't know that you can ever escape the idea of being a voyeur when you cover war, because here you are running toward the very thing that most people in their right minds would be running away from.

HOWE: The ethical problems that war photographers face are absolutely enormous. And you have to take those decisions under the most difficult conditions that anyone could ever imagine.

HAVIV: To think that you're the last person that somebody sees before they die, I think, it's very hard to conceptualize that and understand it. But I've been in places where I have been able to intervene and save somebody. And there have been times where, unfortunately, people have been executed in front of me.

And when you're at that point, then have I to do my utmost to make sure that I can at least document that and tell the world what happened. With this photograph of the Bosnian prisoner with his hands in the air, they were dragging him along and I ran up just to get a photograph of him, a record that would exist of him being dragged off by the Serbian forces. And, as I did that, the soldier threw him down on the ground and said, take a picture. And so, I raised my camera and he raised his arms.

STEBER: What you see with your eyes and the horror of it isn't always -- it's not always possible to translate it into a picture.

I think you always have the image in your head. You carry that picture with you everywhere. And you can unload the film out of the camera, but you can't unload those images out of your head. And it does something to you.

HOWE: We're probably going to be sending young men and women into battle to fight on our behalf. I think that, as a nation, when we make those decisions, we should make them on the best information available and understand that war is not a pleasant experience for anyone involved and that there is a price to pay for everyone involved.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: You've just seen the work of a number of professional photographers. Though we couldn't speak to each of them, we wanted to acknowledge them and thank them for their contributions. Those are their names there.

And we also wanted to mention that one of them, David Turnley, has joined CNN as a contributor. And on Monday, he'll tell us the story of this photograph. You've probably seen it before. You probably will not forget it. It is a story taken on the last day of the last Gulf War.

As NEWSNIGHT continues: Is this man the next Michael Jordan? The story of a player so good, the pros are already talking about him and the trouble he's in over a set of clothing.

And later: Are they an innocent childhood toy or something so dangerous they should actually be banned? The debate over toy guns.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Next on NEWSNIGHT: the pressures of being the next Kobe Bryant.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Well, those of you missing Aaron -- and I'm sure there are a lot of you -- will at least get to hear his voice tonight. We'll have to settle for that.

He has a story about a young man with a certain talent, a talent so extraordinary that his life ceases to become his and his alone. And that's because this talent promises to make him and a lot of other people extraordinarily rich, heady stuff for someone not even old enough to drink. His name is LeBron James. And today, he was declared ineligible to finish out his basketball season because he accepted $845 in free clothing.

For most teenagers, this might feel like a life-ending blow, but, hey, most teenagers are not headed for the NBA.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AARON BROWN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He is just a kid, 18 years old.

DICK VITALE, ESPN: He has lived up to all the billing.

BROWN: And everyone, it seems, wants a piece of him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look at all the G.M.s and scouts sitting behind us here. They're here to see one guy and one guy only.

LEBRON JAMES, HIGH SCHOOL BASKETBALL PLAYER: We know it's a lot notoriety for me and my teammates. But I just go out and play my game every night and give it our all. But it's just getting better every day for our team and for myself.

BROWN: LeBron James is the next big deal, a high school senior who will go straight from high school to the NBA, straight from low- income housing to high-net-worth mansion. A $12 million deal is sitting there waiting.

BYRON SCOTT, HEAD COACH, NEW JERSEY NETS: His, awareness, his feel for the game is like no high school player I've ever seen, the way he can pass the ball. He rebounds. He can shoot it. His handle is great.

GRANT WAHL, "SPORTS ILLUSTRATED": He sees the game at a different speed and he sees things happen before other guys do.

BROWN: To be so young and so talented is not without its challenges. The limelight is shining on him in ways high schoolers only dream of. His school moved the team's home games to a larger arena and doubled the ticket prices. Some games have been aired on national TV and pay-per-view cable. Endorsement deals are being tossed around. And he is just a kid, a kid who has game, but a kid.

BRUCE HOWARD, NATIONAL FEDERATION OF STATE HIGH SCHOOL ASSOCIATIONS: From a national standpoint, the kinds of things that are going on with this situation are not the ideal situations and not the kind of things that we would like to happen. Certainly, the high school is taking advantage.

WAHL: And so you ask the question, is this right for high school sports? And it's hard to know. Like somebody has to say no. The school has to say no. The tournament organizers have to say no. The media conglomerates have to say no. Interestingly, LeBron himself is starting to say no a little bit, not a lot, but a little bit.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nothing but raves.

BROWN: If he joins the NBA out of high school, he'll enter a small fraternity of just 21 others who made the leap.

KOBE BRYANT, 1ST ROUND NBA DRAFT PICK: I saw the cameras coming in my direction over there at the table, I'm starting to think to myself, oh man, this could be it. I'm going to be playing in the NBA.

BROWN: The Lakers' Kobe Bryant did it. So did Minnesota's Kevin Garnett, but not without some difficulty.

SCOTT: When he gets to this level, this is a different beast you have to deal with. But as he matures and as you get older, everybody is going to respect the way he plays. But when he first comes into this league, every guy in this league is going to want a piece of him because he's a kid.

BROWN: But it appears the kid is coming, driving these days a $50,000 car, wearing sneakers a shoe company provided, and, just in case of injury, carrying in hand a multimillion dollar insurance policy.

LeBron James is growing up, ready or not.

Aaron Brown, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Ahead on NEWSNIGHT: What is a kid to do? -- not that kid. Why some people want to ban toy guns.

And later: the impossible dream that became, well, a hilarious nightmare. All this man wanted to do was make a movie.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: NEWSNIGHT continues with the question of gun control -- toy gun control.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: So, this next story sounds like something from the dangerous toy chest they have at "Saturday Night Live." Do you remember that, that big bag of broken glass that kids just loved, or happy fun ball, the ball with the glowing liquid core that causes temporary blindness and profuse sweating?

Well, this is an actual program called Guns for Tots being set up here in New York by some libertarian activists. They are angry about efforts to ban the sale and possession of toy guns, including the little purple plastic kind that squirt water. And they're going to try to put toy guns in the hand of Big Apple kids everywhere.

Joining us now from the Manhattan Libertarian Party, Jim Lesczynski.

We should add that Albert Vann, a New York City councilman who not only supports the ban, but is one of the sponsors of it, agreed to join us tonight. But late this evening, Mr. Vann called and said he doesn't want to debate the issue with someone outside the city council.

But, Jim, we appreciate you showing up, nevertheless.

JIM LESCZYNSKI, MANHATTAN LIBERTARIAN PARTY: Thank you.

COOPER: All right.

So, I'll talk about Guns for Tots in a moment. But, first of all, basically, what is the status? In New York, fake guns that look real are illegal.

LESCZYNSKI: Yes.

Fake guns that look real are already illegal. They have to be either lime green or bright orange or otherwise obviously colored fake. But now the city council wants to go one step further, because apparently a person could spray paint one of those guns black so that it looks real and then...

COOPER: So, under this new proposed law, any toy gun, it could be purple. It could be lime green. It could be a water gun. It could one of those big water shooter guns. They will all be banned?

LESCZYNSKI: They will all be banned, yes.

COOPER: And you oppose this because?

LESCZYNSKI: Because it's silly. It's a silly piece of legislation. We've all played with squirt guns when we were kids. Probably everybody watching this tonight had a squirt gun or a water pistol or a cap gun, played with them, enjoyed themselves, lived to tell the tale. And so this is really just overreaching on the city council's part.

COOPER: Well, now, the city council members, just to speak in their defense, what they will tell you is that there have been an increasing number of crimes involving toy guns.

In fact, from 1985 to 1989, there were a reported 31,650 imitation guns seized during crime-related incidents. People have actually been shot pointing toy guns at police officers. So, they say there's a need for this.

LESCZYNSKI: Right.

Well, what they're looking at is that, about once a year, somebody gets shot with a toy gun that they pretended was a real gun. They committed a crime. Unfortunately, the police officer has to assume it's a real gun and the person got shot. And that's terrible.

COOPER: So why not just outlaw them? Why not outlaw them?

LESCZYNSKI: Because using a gun and pretending it's real to commit a crime is already outlawed.

And somebody could always take two pieces of stick -- two sticks and paint them black and pretend they're a gun. They could stick their hand in their pocket, like they did in the old movies, and say, I've got a gun in my pocket; give me your money. So, there's no way to stop people from pretending they have a gun. Outlawing toy guns isn't going to do it.

COOPER: What the council members also say is that this will stop the development or is one step toward stopping the development of a culture of violence

(CROSSTALK)

LESCZYNSKI: No. That's silly. They're just Hoplophobes. They're afraid of guns.

COOPER: They're what?

LESCZYNSKI: Hoplophobes. That's somebody who has an irrational fear guns.

COOPER: OK.

LESCZYNSKI: And to have an irrational fear of toy guns is an extreme case of Hoplophobia.

COOPER: Wait. This is an actual term?

LESCZYNSKI: This is an actual word coined by Jeff Cooper in the 1960s, who was a noted gun authority. COOPER: Hoplophobia.

LESCZYNSKI: Hoplophobia. A Hoplophile is somebody who likes guns.

COOPER: So, this would be faux Hoplophobia.

LESCZYNSKI: Yes, this is faux Hoplophobia, fear of fake guns. And it's just absurd, because there's nothing to be afraid of. It's a squirt gun.

COOPER: But, obviously, there is a sort of, a lot of people will argue, a culture of violence that's propagated in movies and television and that toy guns are just one part of it. Why do kids need to play with toy guns?

LESCZYNSKI: Because you can't censor ideas. Taking away toy guns is not going to stop kids from being interested in violence and guns and playing cops and robbers cowboys and Indians and all the other things we did. We can't censor thoughts.

COOPER: All right. So, the thing that got my attention, at least, on this thing was this program that you are starting called Guns for Tots.

LESCZYNSKI: Right.

COOPER: Obviously something that is an attention-grabbing device. But what is Guns for Tots?

LESCZYNSKI: Well, we believed that silly legislation called for a silly response.

So, Guns for Tots is an actual charitable drive that we're doing. It's a toy drive. We're collecting cap guns, squirt guns and cash contributions to buy those toy guns from people over last week and this week. And this Thursday, after the city council hearing on this legislation, we're going to go out after school and give them to kids around New York City.

COOPER: Now, are you actually going to do this?

LESCZYNSKI: We're actually going to do that. We're actually collecting them. I'm getting donations coming in.

COOPER: How many toy guns have you collected so far?

LESCZYNSKI: So far, we have about 40. I had somebody from Rochester e-mail yesterday and said he just put 20 in the mail when he saw the story.

And we're having a big toy collection party tomorrow night at one of our favorite local taverns. And people are going to be coming from all over with toy guns and cash to help us buy them and help us put these guns in the hands of the kids before they turn into contraband and are illegal to even posses. COOPER: Now, my final question -- I have got to ask this because the council member would have probably asked this -- what if, God forbid, one of those guns that you have given out ends up being used in an attempted crime?

LESCZYNSKI: That would be a terrible thing, but I give the kids more credit than the council person does. I don't think they're going to do that. I think the kids in New York City know how to handle a squirt gun without getting themselves into trouble.

COOPER: All right, Jim Lesczynski of the Libertarian Party, thanks for being with us. Guns for Tots.

LESCZYNSKI: Thank you.

COOPER: Quite an ear-catching name. Thanks very much.

LESCZYNSKI: Good. Thanks.

COOPER: Next on NEWSNIGHT: Was it a curse or just an impossible dream? The story of one director's quest to follow that star, no matter how hopeless, no matter how far.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Finally, tonight, tilting at windmills.

Director Terry Gilliam didn't think he was when he set out to make his latest film. After all, he's made some of the most elaborate movies of all time: "Brazil," "Time Bandits," just to name a few. And he knows what a struggle it is to get movies made.

So, some old guy from La Mancha, piece of cake, right? Think again.

Here's CNN's Beth Nissen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BETH NISSEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Director Terry Gilliam is no stranger to the absurd, the preposterous. He was, after all, an original member of Monty Python's Flying Circus.

But even the fantastically inventive Gilliam couldn't have imagined how his quest to make a film adaptation of "Don Quixote" would turn out. In June of 200, Gilliam went to Spain to start the film and invited two young filmmakers, Louis Pepe and Keith Fulton, to document the making of a classic film story about the struggle between reality and fantasy, madness and sanity. That they did, in an utterly unexpected way.

LOUIS PEPE, DOCUMENTARY FILMMAKER: During the first week of this film, every day brought a new disaster. Every day brought a cataclysm of almost Biblical proportions.

KEITH FULTON, DOCUMENTARY FILMMAKER: We found ourselves in Madrid watching Terry's dream collapse around him.

NISSEN: This wasn't a big Hollywood production. Gilliam had a modest budget from European funders and a tight schedule. He didn't get his lead actors until just a few days before shooting started.

TERRY GILLIAM, ACTOR: I got an actor. I have an actor.

NISSEN: Johnny Depp, one of the film's stars, had almost no time to rehearse, nor did the film's Don Quixote, Jean Rochefort, a French actor who was to be doing his lines in English with a slight Spanish accent, not that anyone could hear him. Key scenes were shot too near a NATO bombing range.

GILLIAM: I don't want to waste time shooting dialogue.

FULTON: They had information that there would only be test bombings going on about an hour a day, but that information turned out to be only semi-reliable.

NISSEN: Also semi-reliable: weather forecasts.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a large bunch of lightning about to hit us.

PEPE: The almanacs had listed that, for this particular week of the year, it had not rained for 200 years.

NISSEN: Most crucially, the film's 70-year-old title character was ailing. Jean Rochefort found it wincingly difficult to sit astride a horse, a critical part Don Quixote's role.

PEPE: He was in pain from what turned out to be a double- herniated disc.

NISSEN: While Rochefort went back to Paris to see his doctors, Gilliam tried to shoot scenes that didn't involve him.

GILLIAM: You fiddle with the fish. Beat his brain out. And the horse comes up and nudges you over that way.

Action.

NISSEN: Johnny Depp knew his part, but hadn't rehearsed with the horse.

GILLIAM: Come on horse. Come on, horsy. Cut, cut, cut, cut, cut,, cut.

NISSEN: That's exactly what the financiers and accountants said when word came from Paris that Rochefort could not return to the set for weeks.

FULTON: And without Jean Rochefort, there was going to be no film. The French financing of the film was based largely on Jean Rochefort being cast in it. PEPE: It is the nature of filmmaking -- and this is something that's often hidden -- that it is an equal amount of business as it is art.

NISSEN: Gilliam's dream film, which he had been producing and editing in his head for more than a decade, was shut down.

PEPE: They had a schedule, I think, the was about an 85-day schedule, about 17 weeks. They only made it through six days.

NISSEN: Gilliam had only about 12 minutes of film in the can, a few scenes with Johnny Depp and this scene of marauding giants.

But Fulton and Pepe had 120 hours of material.

FULTON: And so Terry said to us, look, you guys may be the only people that get a film out of it. It certainly doesn't look like I'm going to get a film out of it. So make the film.

NISSEN: They did and titled it lost in "Lost in La Mancha."

PEPE: When we're feeling particularly bold, we like to claim that it's our own adaptation of Don Quixote.

NISSEN: The classic story of an idealist with what turned out to be an impossible dream.

Beth Nissen, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Man, I thought the news business was tough.

That's it for me this week. Thanks for putting up with me. Aaron Brown will be back on Monday.

Have a great weekend, everyone.

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