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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown
Will France, Germany, Russia Thwart Possible U.S. Plans for War?
Aired February 10, 2003 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN HOST: Good evening again. I'm Aaron Brown.
We are coming to you tonight from Kuwait. We'll be here all week for programs.
We begin tonight with a look at the situation here. F. Scott Fitzgerald once wrote something we think is apropos to the way Kuwaitis feel. He wrote the test of first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function.
If that's the case, there are clearly a lot of first-rate minds here in Kuwait. They're being forced to juggle more than a few opposing ideas, fears and opinions.
We've yet to find anyone here who does not want Saddam Hussein gone. They all have vivid, vivid memories of the brutal invasion and the wanton destruction of 12 years ago. But we've also found concern about what a war might mean to the region, what instability, what dangers from an American-led war and a large American presence after that war.
This is a hugely delicate subject. Government officials are not keen to talk about it but most everyone else does and will.
The papers here are full of speculation. Monday the entire front page of the English language paper was filled with stories. Will martial law be declared here in Kuwait? Will the airport close next week? Are there enough gas masks in the country? Will Iraq attack Kuwait? And on it went.
Here there is no question the war is coming. They see the buildup of American troops arriving each every day. The entire northern part of Kuwait is about to be shut down. It is an anxious time where hope and fear seem to be on a collision course.
And a collision course seems to be the phrase of the day as we begin "The Whip." We start with Richard Roth and a little bit of good news coming out of the United Nations.
Richard's in New York. A headline, please.
RICHARD ROTH, CNN SR. UNITED NATIONS CORRESPONDENT: Dr. Blix is back in the U.N. house. His prescription on Iraq will be delivered Friday. Baghdad made it a beautiful day for Blix with a surveillance plane concession.
BROWN: Richard, thank you. Back to you early tonight.
Official disappointment today at the White House in terms of certain allies and their positions on Iraq. A lot of unofficial anger as well.
For that, we go to the White House and our senior White House and correspondent, John King.
John, the headline from there.
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, from the Bush administration perspective, this is a critical week in shaping Iraq policy and you might notice a patent -- pattern. The White House says France is wrong to say inspectors deserve more time. The White house says France is wrong when they say there's no proof that Saddam has weapons of mass destruction. And the White House says France is wrong to be part of an effort to keep NATO from defending Turkey in case of war with Iraq. A tough week ahead for the president -- Aaron.
BROWN: John, thank you.
And the latest now on the unsettling weekend in the United States after the terror threat was raised on Friday.
Jeanne Meserve following that story for us. So Jeanne, a headline from you.
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Administration officials say they don't want to frighten Americans, but they do want the Americans to prepare for the possibility of biological, chemical or radiological attack -- Aaron.
BROWN: Jeanne, thank you. Back to you and the rest shortly.
Also coming up tonight on NEWSNIGHT for Monday, the 10th of February, a question for many Americans: how far is war with Iraq? How far off? For these Americans, the answer is 30 miles. We'll meet some of the U.S. forces who are flooding into the Kuwaiti Desert getting ready for a confrontation they believe certain will come.
We'll talk also with Kuwait's foreign minister who calls Saddam Hussein a serial liar who must be stopped. It was a fascinating conversation we had.
And an indelible image from the last day of the first Gulf War. We'll hear from photographer David Turnley and from a soldier who lost his best friend that day. That's "Segment 7" tonight.
All of that in the hour ahead, a busy one.
We begin with the week of diplomacy, perhaps the last week of diplomacy before a lot more things start happening. Judging by today alone, we've got a busy week in store. Just today, we saw the return of the chief U.N. weapons inspectors from Baghdad, more maneuvering by the French, by the Germans and by the Russian.
And then there was the wild card from Iraq, a concession. Not a concession that pleased the bush administration very much, but enough of a concession to throw a monkey wrench into the machinery, it seems, which some are saying was exactly the point the Iraqis were trying to make.
Our reporting begins at the United Nations. Here again, CNN's Richard Roth.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROTH (voice-over): Flying back from Baghdad, chief U.N. weapons inspector Hans Blix got some favorable news about another airplane in his sights.
After months of objections, Iraq will now permit U-2 surveillance overflights.
MOHAMMED ALDOURI, IRAQI AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: Regarding the question of U-2, right now it's resolved.
ROTH: A different story after talks in Baghdad concluded Sunday. Iraq told Blix it would decide whether to allow the U-2 by Friday. So, a concession. But Blix told me on the ride home there are still many other disarmament gaps, despite a handover of some documents.
HANS BLIX, CHIEF U.N. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: There are hundreds of questions that will need to be resolved and of course we got a declaration, but we did not feel that there is new evidence in that declaration and we think that that's what is needed.
ROTH: Blix started writing an early draft of a highly awaited report he delivers to the Security Council on Iraq this Friday. Also planning, the U.N.'s top diplomat, Kofi Annan, has summoned the Security Council to a Thursday meeting to prepare for any humanitarian emergency if Iraq erupts.
KOFI ANNAN, U.N. SECRETARY-GENERAL: Secretary-General made it very clear that I hope this issue can be resolved peacefully. But, of course, we are also realistic.
ROTH: And so is the chief inspector. He can't rule out a fourth trip to Baghdad, but knows his inspectors may run out of time to receive more cooperation from Iraq or locate weapons of mass destruction.
(on camera): Last week you said it was 5 minutes to midnight on the crisis clock. Now, after your visit, what time is it?
BLIX: Well, maybe you should ask your compatriots in Washington about that.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROTH: And the clock really starts ticking, Aaron, after Friday and after the inspectors' briefing. That's when you're likely to see the beginning of some jousting on a potential second resolution inside the Security Council -- Aaron.
BROWN: Let's deal with that question in a second,.
Let me start with this one. Do you have any feel yet for what the Blix report will say? he seemed to us, at least, a bit pessimistic when he was leaving Baghdad and a little more optimistic now.
ROTH: I asked him about his colleague, Mohamed ElBaradei, saying that he was beginning to see a change of heart in Iraq. Blix did not want to really touch that. He just said, Well, I hope's right. Now there was an opportunity for Blix to be a little bit more upbeat.
And he told me there's just still so many gaps. I just don't see any change by Blix in his presentation. I can't see him going dramatically positive. I could see him staying the same or staying slightly negative. There's still a few more days left for last-minute concessions, though, by Iraq.
BROWN: Now, do you have any feel, Richard -- give us -- can you give us a road map at all for how this second resolution process will work? Will there be more than one resolution put on the table? Who's writing them up? How does this break out?
ROTH: There could be competing drafts. The U.S. may decide not to push for one. Right now it doesn't have enough votes on the table, nine to at least get passage, even if all the other permanent members veto. You're likely to see the British offer a second draft and it's going to call on members to support the Council in living up to the words of the resolution, enforcing it and coming down hard on Iraq. But France is not going to go for that and Germany is certainly without a veto power, but Germany is not going to be in favor.
It still has to play out that way. It's still a little early to say how many pieces of paper there but the super powers, the U.S., and the other permanent countries are still at odds, still, on Iraq policy.
BROWN: Richard, thank you. It will be an interesting week for you at the United Nations next couple of week. Thank you, Richard Roth, in New York.
In a moment we'll get the White House take on what is becoming a very public vexation, being unable to present a united front against Iraq, mostly due to the efforts of France.
But it's not just France. The Germans continue to strongly oppose a war. The Russians seem to be stiffening in their opposition, at least for now. The maneuvering is now intense on both sides of the Atlantic and the White House, for today, at least, seems unable to control it.
First Europe. Here's CNN's Robin Oakley.
(END VIDEOTAPE) ROBIN OAKLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Red roses for the Putins, when Russia's president arrived to see Jacques Chirac.
But no bouquets for President George Bush, when the two men, each holding a veto in the U.N. Security Council, insisted they and Germany haven't seen enough proof against Saddam Hussein to justify military action.
JACQUES CHIRAC, FRENCH PRESIDENT (through translator): Nothing today justifies a war. I think that part of the world doesn't need another war, and I am certain that it is the view of the majority of the world.
OAKLEY: France is calling instead for a tripling of the arms inspectors in Iraq. Mr. Putin pursued a similar line.
VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): We have a joint position with regard to Iraq. Both countries insist that we need to solve the problem diplomatically.
OAKLEY: Another strong repudiation for the U.S. in Brussels, where France and Germany with joined by Belgium in opposing NATO efforts to plan to help turkey in the event of a war with AWAC surveillance planes and Patriot anti-missile batteries. Even planning such action, said the three, would put NATO into a war mind-set.
As heated debate continued, the NATO secretary-general admitted it was bad for the alliance, but he insisted the argument was only about timing.
GEORGE ROBERTSON, NATO SECRETARY GENERAL: We're united in our commitment to the security of all NATO's members. The question is not if but when to begin the planning.
OAKLEY: NATO disarray and the declarations from Chirac and Putin may have made it much harder for the U.S. to win a U.N. blessing for the use of force.
But analysts still find it hard to believe Chirac would actually use a French veto in the Security Council to stop a second resolution.
DOMINIQUE MOISI, FRENCH INSTITUTE OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS: It would be suicidal for them to use it, really. And I think there is that realization in Paris, that this is a weapon you can brandish but never use.
OAKLEY (on camera): For the U.S. seeking to assemble its coalition of the willing against Saddam Hussein, it was a bad day. But Europe, too, is becoming alarmed about the disarray, with five lined up in favor of the U.S. and three declared against. European Union leaders will hold an emergency summit next Monday in search of a common line.
Robin Oakley, CNN, Paris.
(END VIDEOTAPE) BROWN: On to the White House next. The president today hosting a member of that coalition of the willing. The administration taking great care to show that for every France there is an England or a Poland or in the case of today, an Australia. This is also an administration that stays on message. So again today the message was familiar. Here again, our senior White House correspondent, John King.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KING (voice-over): The president said the United Nations should not be fooled by Iraq's sudden decision to allow weapons inspectors to use U-2 surveillance planes.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is a man who is trying to stall for time, he's trying to play a diplomatic game. He's been successful at it for 12 years. But, no, the question is, will he disarm.
KING: Australia is a close friend. Prime Minister John Howard offering support on a day of pointed differences with other traditional allies.
JOHN HOWARD, AUSTRALIAN PRIME MINISTER: The president has shown very strong leadership on a difficult issue.
KING: More White House frustration with France and Germany, this time for their role in blocking the NATO deployment to Turkey.
BUSH: That decision affects the alliance in a negative way. I think it affects the alliance in a negative way when you're not able to make a statement of mutual defense.
KING: Mr. Bush said he hopes NATO reconsiders but will not be held back if it doesn't.
Earlier in Tennessee, the president told religious broadcasts Iraq's preparation for war now includes moving troops into residential areas so it can blame high civilian casualties on the United States.
BUSH: Saddam Hussein regards the Iraqi people as human shields, entirely expendable, when their suffering serves his purposes.
KING: Mr. Bush's strategy faces critical tests in the week ahead. The chief weapons inspectors report to the Security Council on Friday. They say Baghdad is cooperating more but still not fully, and the White House is prepared to argue Iraq is out of time. The administration's goal is a second resolution authorizing military force.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: But if France and others still refuse to go along, some administration officials favor this as a backup plan, having the council simply pass a new resolution that is silent on the issue of military force but does say that Iraq is in material breach of its commitment to fully and completely disarm. The White House would then say under previous U.N. resolutions, Mr. Bush has the authority to use force and go on from there, building that coalition of the willing outside of the blessing of the Security Council -- Aaron.
BROWN: John, how angry are they at what went on today? How angry are they at the French? What's their feeling about the Russians who seemed to stiffen today? What's the private mood, if you will?
KING: On the Russians, they feel quite fine here at the White House. They think in the end they will have consensus with the Russians. They continue to tell us, at least several senior administration officials do, that privately the conversations with the French are relatively encouraging as well, yet they were apoplectic, to say the least, here at the White House today, not so much that President Chirac said the inspectors deserve more time. He has been saying that all along, but one thing he said with President Putin standing by his side was that he has yet to see undisputed proof that Saddam Hussein has no weapons of mass destruction. That took the White House off guard. One senior official saying "he knows better, he has seen the same evidence we do."
That was one thing they didn't appreciate here at the White House. They believe that further muddies the water. They understand the public disagreement with France, they think they can resolve that, but they didn't appreciate what the French president said today -- Aaron.
BROWN: And, John, they must be -- they certainly are aware, tell me if they're concerned, that whether it's the streets of Europe or indeed the streets of Australia, there is great concern about going it alone, if the United States were to go it alone, where public opinion is concerned.
KING: Well, that's one reason Defense Secretary Rumsfeld today took great offense at the term "going it alone." He says there are more than a dozen, well in excess of a dozen countries prepared to move with the United States now, regardless of what the Security Council does. And that, though, the reason you just mentioned, those public opinion polls across the world but especially in Europe, one reason the United States believes the Blix report is so critical. If Dr. Blix, as Richard Roth suggested, goes before the council yet again and says Iraq is still not fully complying, still not accounting for all the weapons programs, the White House believes at that point it can stand up, Secretary Powell and others can stand up and say, you signed on to Resolution 1441, the world must now prove it means what it says. They believe Dr. Blix is key here to helping the White House solidify world opinion.
BROWN: John, thank you, our senior White House correspondent, John King.
And still ahead on NEWSNIGHT from Kuwait, the Department of Homeland Defense begins dispensing advice on how to prepare your home, your life, your family for a possible terror attack.
And later, American Marines in the desert of Kuwait preparing for a possible attack on Iraq. From Kuwait and around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: The sun is starting to come up here on Tuesday morning here in Kuwait, a new day dawning. To say that homeland defense is topic A here in Kuwait would be the understatement of the day. The Iraqis have said if they're attacked by the United States, they will in turn attack Kuwait. Maybe that's bluster, maybe not, but it's not a threat easily dismissed here, not given what happened 12 years ago.
Same is true in the United States. The increase in the threat level last Friday is starting to seep in. And so is a comment made by the Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge the other day.
Just before we left he said go about your normal lives. But it's not a bad idea to sit down with your families and friends and plan how you would stay safe in the event of the unthinkable. Once again, here's CNN's Jeanne Meserve.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MESERVE (voice-over): Increased security on the streets, in the harbor, at the tunnels let you know this wasn't just another Monday in New York City but day four of threat level Orange.
MAYOR MICHAEL BLOOMBERG (R), NEW YORK CITY: We are not going to stop our lives. You can't worry about every single thing. You've got to get on with it.
MESERVE: But officials want Americans to show more concern for their own safety. For the first time they urge the public to read up on the specifics of how to prepare for the possibility of biological, chemical or radiological attack. Have three days of water and nonperishable food on hand and plastic sheeting and duct tape to seal windows, doors and vents. Have a plan for communicating in the event of an emergency and establish a meeting point outside your neighborhood.
GORDON JOHNDROE, HOMELAND SECURITY DEPT. SPOKESMAN: Al Qaeda's interest in obtaining chemical or biological or radiological weapons is not declining. And therefore, should they be successful in their attempts to obtain these types of weapons, we want the American public to be ready.
MESERVE: Sources say the government has sought secret national security warrants to monitor individuals who may have proficiency in making biological weapons. And that al Qaeda is trying to elude monitoring by using disposable cellphones and one-time e-mail accounts.
(on camera): Administration officials say there has been no decrease in the amount of intelligence chatter since the threat level went up to Orange. They can't predict when it can come down but say it certainly won't be before the end of the Hajj later this week.
Jeanne Meserve, CNN, Washington. (END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: A few stories from around the United States tonight beginning with a guilty plea involving a Muslim charity. The head of Benevolence International Foundation pleaded guilty today to illegally buying boots and uniforms for fighting forces in Bosnia and Chechnya.
As part of the plea bargain, prosecutors agreed to drop charges that he also funneled money to al Qaeda. He did admit defrauding donors by telling them the group helped only widows and orphans and poor Muslims.
The latest from the Clara Harris murder trial in Houston. She's the woman accused of killing her husband by running him over after she discovered him having an affair. Police accident investigator testified today that Ms. Harris ran him over at least twice with her Mercedes-Benz. The defense says she ran over him once and that it was an accident.
And, dude, we're going to resist making the pun. Well, obviously we didn't resist completely. Benjamin Curtis, better known as the Dell Dude, was arrested today. He allegedly tried to buy marijuana, a small amount on Manhattan's Lower East Side. Curtis was released today after a judge said the case will be dismissed if he stays out of trouble during the next year.
Still to come on NEWSNIGHT on an early Tuesday morning in Kuwait, we'll go into the North Desert to see how American Marines are getting ready for a possible war with Iraq. This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Just got a late note out of San Diego, California. The former White House Press Secretary Ron Ziegler has died. If you're a Watergate aficionado that is a name you know very well.
For many years, he was the voice and the face of the Nixon administration, including the administration spokesman in it's the most difficult time, the dying days of Watergate. It was Ron Ziegler who will be remembered we suppose best for describing Watergate as a "third rate burglary."
To say the least, he was a reflection of his boss. He was suspicious of the press, he was combative, he was often brutally tough. He did his job with zeal and much of that job involved answering some very difficult questions at a very difficult time for his boss and for the country. Ron Ziegler died today of a heart attack. He was 63.
Back here in Kuwait, this is a small country as we talked about yesterday if you were with us last night. Out in the desert now in this small land there are literally tens of thousands of American soldiers and Marines. More are arriving each and every day. They are training to be sure, but they are also doing what no amount of training can really prepare you for. They're waiting.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN (voice-over): Here in the vastness of the Kuwaiti desert, less than 20 miles from the border with Iraq, this is what the reality of war sounds like.
(GUNSHOTS)
BROWN: American Marines, most of whom have been in the desert fro no more that tow weeks, are ratcheting up their training schedules, cleaning and adjusting their weapons.
And for these Marines, that kind of routine actually means something. These are combat engineers. They will be among the first to go in if American land forces are called upon to invade Iraq.
LANCE CPL. LUCAS PALLAN, U.S. MARINES: Work with the explosives. They explode through mine fields or wire, whatever we have to do.
BROWN: If you see concern on the faces of these Marines, some of it is being erased by men like First Sergeant Michael Miller.
1ST SGT. MICHAEL MILLER, U.S. MARINES: Everybody understands how this comes together now, right?
BROWN: The reason is that Sergeant Miller has been here before. He was in the Marines, on the ground during the first Gulf War.
MILLER: Marines are the same. I think the job we're going to do is probably going to be about the same ones this thing kick off. I don't see it no more than three months we should wrap it up.
BROWN: And that says the sergeant is not born of arrogance but experience.
MILLER: With the doctrine that we've studied with Saddam, with him and the mine fields and the way that we are going to breach his mind fields he needs artillery and air to support it. But by the time we go across the border, he won't have the air and artillery to support it. So we can take out time getting across the minefields and make it to our objectives.
BROWN: Every day more men and material are moving across the desert. The U.S. forces are getting reintroduced to some powerful weapons. This, for instance, is a Mark-19, a grenade launcher that can take out an energy troop carrier at a half a mile. They treat it with tender and loving care.
LANCE CPL. JOSEPH GREMLICH, U.S. MARINES: It's different than actually training when you know you're about to go into it for real. I'm pretty sure everybody's ready.
BROWN: Whether it is weapons like these or smaller weapons like M-16s that these Marines will carry into battle. They know that they are part of a land armada that is growing here in Kuwait quite literally every hour and every day. Equipment is being unloaded at Kuwaiti ports at a furious pace. American convoys growl through the streets of Kuwait City on a routine basis. And while there may be a great deal of nervousness, you can't find many of the Marines who will say so out loud. They are, after all, Marines.
MILLER: They've been trained by the best, been prepared by the best. So, the confidence level is there. I don't see any problem. Maybe when we get the order to go across, there might be a few nerves. But we got good NCOs. We got good small unit leaders. And they'll adapt and overcome. That's just the way Marine Corps has been doing it for over 225 years.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: We were out with a biochemical unit yesterday. And one of the things they were doing was just getting used to the weather, wearing their heavy suits in the heat in the middle of the day just to acclimatize. It is part of the work of preparing.
Still to come on NEWSNIGHT: more on how the United States and its forces are getting ready. We'll bring our generals together to get their thoughts on what's going on -- that and more as NEWSNIGHT continues from Kuwait.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: And next on NEWSNIGHT: the generals, Generals Clark, Shepperd, and Grange. We'll get their opinions on the preparations for a possible war with Iraq and the dangers in waiting.
This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: A moment ago, we got a picture of confidence from American forces, at least the confidence they seem to have that a war, should it come, would be over quickly and decisively. Today, a veteran Pentagon watcher went so far as to call the groundwork 12 years ago stately by comparison to what may soon be coming. There is talk of things like shock and awe, rolling starts, vertical envelopment, Greek to us, to be honest.
Fortunately, a translation is available from our panel of retired generals, esteemed they are: Wesley Clark in Little Rock, Arkansas, tonight. Don Shepperd and David Grange join us from Atlanta.
It's good you all back home.
General Grange, let me start with you.
Let's just say for a second these are your troops under your command. Right now, today, what's your biggest concern?
RETIRED BRIG. GEN. DAVID GRANGE, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: The biggest concern is that you've done everything at the end of each day or each night of a training segment, you've done everything you can do to be ready. And you're never 100 percent, Aaron. But you continue to drive on to do that, so, when the time comes to move out, your people are ready.
BROWN: This may sound silly. And I apologize for it.
Is there any concern, to use a sports analogy, that your troops will peak too soon?
GRANGE: Well, you can peak.
But the key to a good command -- I think the first sergeant you just -- you had on a little while ago epitomizes just that baseline of our sergeants, of our young officers in the United States armed forces, that they do peak, but you keep being innovative on training ideas. So, you could come up with great ways to keep ready, to keep troops occupied, to plan for different contingencies for whatever may come your way.
BROWN: And General Shepperd, you were a flier. What are the guys, the pilots doing these days? Same sort of thing, running missions and the like?
RETIRED MAJOR GEN. DONALD SHEPPERD, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes.
They're running the missions on a regular daily bases, training just like we do back at home station, except they are, many of them, deployed to the area of operations, or the AOR. The other thing that they're doing is, they're flying missions in northern watch and southern watch. And unbeknownst to a lot of people, we've had a war going on for almost the last 10 years. These guys are going out and getting shot out almost every day and attacking targets in retaliation. This has been serious business for a long time. So, they have been peaked for a long time, Aaron, on the air side.
BROWN: And, General Clark, is there -- look, part of the job of a military commander is to prepare for everything imaginable. So, clearly, there's preparation. Is it a realistic thought that Saddam might strike first?
RETIRED GENERAL. WESLEY CLARK, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: It is a realistic concern.
And we have to have our eyes and ears out there. We've got to have our unmanned reconnaissance, our manned reconnaissance up. And we have got to be ready to strike preemptively against him should he deploy, let's say, artillery or rockets to go against us.
BROWN: And would that be -- if these were your guys out there at this moment, would that be the concern, that it would be a conventional attack? Or are you more concerned about a chem or biological attack?
CLARK: We're most vulnerable in the period where we're concentrated in Kuwait, before we start to move. Once we start to move and we spread out and we're a moving target, it's much harder to hit us with chemicals. He could still lay some kind of bioattack on us. So, we'd be concerned about the vulnerability right now to a weapons of mass destruction attack. Obviously, if we can see him moving to set something like that up, we would strike first.
BROWN: General Grange, at this moment, we talk a lot, it seems to me, about that we're not -- we, the United States forces, the U.S. forces, or allied forces, or the coalition forces -- are not quite ready yet. How far from ready, in your estimation, are they?
GRANGE: Well, the forces that are there now are quite ready.
I think you're referring to the buildup to cover any contingencies or the optimum fore-structure to conduct an attack on Iraq. And we're not there yet, as you see the buildup continue. And the buildup is going to continue until you have overwhelming force to take down a regime rapidly, with the simultaneity to hit with both ground and air, to take down critical targets, to keep oil fields from being blown, to keep the use of chemical or biological weapons on our troops or on civilian populace.
So, that force is not there yet. And we're looking probably at the very beginning of March.
BROWN: Let me go back to General Clark for a second and turn this conversation just slightly.
Wes, you're just back from Europe. You had a long relationship with NATO. There was this issue with NATO, to put it mildly, today. Give me your sense of the ground in Europe and where -- not so much where they are today, but where they'll end up and the problems it poses.
CLARK: Well, this is a struggle within NATO. It's been brought into NATO because it's really a struggle over U.S. policy. It's not going to be the end of NATO, but it certainly is a blow that indicates the fragility of trans-Atlantic alliances.
I think where this is going to end up, Aaron, is, we're going to see France and Belgium and Germany eventually agree to some planning for Turkey. I think, eventually, France and Belgium -- at least France -- will come on with the United States and, if there is to be a war in Iraq, they'll be with us on this. I think Germany is unable to get out of the hole that they're in with their domestic political situation. I think they're going to sit this one out.
BROWN: Soon, I'd like to talk about the roots of some of this. We don't have the time for it tonight.
Gentlemen, thank you. It's always good to talk to you, even from a long way away. Thank you very much.
And ahead on NEWSNIGHT, live from Kuwait: the view from inside Kuwait with the man who is the minister of state for foreign affairs, the foreign minister here.
And later: a look back at the last Gulf War and an image from it that lingers on. We'll meet the photographer and the subject, as NEWSNIGHT continues on CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: And next on NEWSNIGHT: the Kuwaiti government's official position on the possibility, perhaps even the likelihood, of a war with Iraq.
This is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Were it not for the roadblocks and the checkpoints, you could drive from where we are right now to the border with Iraq in about an hour, maybe a little less.
It makes sense, then, that the Kuwaiti government was one of the first to back the United States in this current confrontation with Iraq. And at least among the leaders here, there is no belief that Saddam can, will ever turn over a new leaf.
I spoke earlier with Sheikh Dr. Mohammed Al Sabah, the Kuwaiti minister of state for foreign affairs.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Do you think it's possible, at this point, that a war can be averted?
SHEIKH MOHAMMED AL SABAH, KUWAITI MINISTER OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS: I think that there is a very slim opportunity here. And, really, the matter is up to Saddam Hussein, what he wants to do. He has the power to save his people from such agony.
BROWN: Assume for a moment that he were to agree to go into exile and that he would take his family and, let's say, the top leadership with him. At that point, is there a need for a war?
AL SABAH: I think the war is not an end by itself. It's a means to achieve something.
What we want to achieve is the full implementation of the Security Council resolutions. We want the cease-fire resolution that was passed in April of 1991. That's 12 years ago. We want that resolution to be implemented fully and for Iraq to comply fully with that resolution. It deals with the weapons of mass destruction. It deals with the Iraqi respect for its neighbors and it deals with Kuwaiti POWs. So, in that sense, I hope that we can achieve these things without a war.
The matter of Saddam to take the other option of an exile, that I think would certainly open a big window and a big opportunity to resolve this issue without a war. BROWN: What is it that makes you nervous here, specifically? What are the concerns?
AL SABAH: Well, we have absolutely no illusion about the existence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. We have no illusions about the intent of Saddam Hussein to use these chemical weapons. And we have no illusions about the -- that, in the event of a war, that Saddam are ready to use these weapons against us, against Kuwait. This is our primary concern.
For that reason, we in the Kuwaiti government have taken all kinds of necessary measures, precautions, contingency plannings to safeguard against that event.
BROWN: Is there some concern that the American goal here is something more than simply regime change in Baghdad?
AL SABAH: Well, the United States is the sole superpower in this world. It's the only game in town, if you will.
Twelve years ago, the United States led the effort to liberate my country. President Bush then, Bush I, decided to stop the war once Kuwait was liberated. And he said that there was no U.N. mandate to go to Baghdad. He had the chance. He had the opportunity. He had the power to do that. Yet, he decided to stick to the strict implementation of the Security Council resolution.
I don't really second-guess this administration when it makes its commitment to implement these resolutions strictly and to enforce them even with the use of force. In that sense, it's clear what is the American intention. And it is basically the enforcement of these resolutions.
BROWN: Do you have any concerns that what is now Iraq could devolve into a total, uncontrollable mess of retribution, violence, war?
AL SABAH: Well, again, I beg to disagree with the premise of this question there.
The premise is that Iraq now is a functioning state and a stable state. I think Iraq, on the contrary, is a failed state. I think Iraq cannot be put together back as one functioning state with the current regime in power. I think that the only way to bring back the Iraqis together if there is a proper government that can be -- can live within peace -- with peace within its own borders and can live with peace within its own region.
BROWN: It was nice to meet you, sir. Thank you for talking to us.
AL SABAH: Thank you very much, indeed.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: That is the official government view from here. It is not necessarily the view of everyone here. And as we go along this week, you'll hear more on that.
As we wrap up your Monday from Kuwait and start our Tuesday, NEWSNIGHT continues with a look back at a memorable photograph from the first Gulf War. And we'll meet the man who took the picture and the man in the picture.
It's segment seven, as we continue from Kuwait.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Imagine what it's like to witness a heartbreaking moment in the life of a perfect stranger. Photographer David Turnley does it for a living. He's in Syria now, helping to cover the region for CNN. And he has been here before. He took a remarkable photo at the very end of the Gulf War.
You may remember it as capturing the horror of the war. Turnley remembers it as a moment he saw a man lose his best friend.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID TURNLEY, PHOTOGRAPHER: We flew deep into Iraq near the Euphrates River. There were several Bradley Fighting Vehicles, one of which had clearly taken a direct hit.
The medics helped two of these soldiers into the helicopter and then went back to the tank and collected the body of the driver. And they brought the body bag then to the helicopter. I got in. My knees are touching the soldier in front of me as we lift off. The medic on the right passed the identity card of the soldier in the body bag across in front of the soldier on my left. And it was at that moment that he grabbed the identity card and looked at it and realized that the man in the body bag was his best friend.
We touched down. Ken got out of the helicopter. And that was the last time I saw them in 1991. I hadn't spoken to him in 12 years, but I have seen this man's face in this photograph so many times and remember as if it was yesterday. The impending war provoked me to want to go to Buffalo and meet this young man to see how he's doing.
How you doing, buddy? Haven't seen you in a long time.
KEN KOZAKIEWICZ, GULF WAR VETERAN: How you doing?
TURNLEY: Good to see you.
It was one of those moments when this deep sense of knowing someone who you don't know.
KOZAKIEWICZ: So he gave me his I.D. And then I found out. And that's when you took the picture. See, I didn't know you were there, actually, until you took the picture. And then I looked up and that's the first time I saw you. Everybody knows me as the guy in the picture.
TURNLEY: Really? (LAUGHTER)
TURNLEY: That's amazing.
KOZAKIEWICZ: Yes.
You got to try and put it behind you, but you can't, and just get on with your life. And that's what I've been trying to do.
TURNLEY: Yes.
KOZAKIEWICZ: For a long time, that's all I ever thought about. Several different times during the course of a day, it would flash back.
TURNLEY: I think this event has haunted him. And it just sort of reinforces, even beyond the photograph, the reality of war, that human life is at risk, and every time that one of these young men or women go overseas to defend their country, there's a very real chance they're not going to come home. And I think that, no matter what people feel politically about any given situation, they need to remember that.
We enter the lives of people in very intimate ways. And I'm also extremely conscious of just the privilege of that and the sensation that it's important for me that the dignity of these young guys be very present, be felt, and certainly that they know what my intentions are, what my intentions were when I made that picture.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Whatever your view on the politics of all of this, remember those words. They matter.
That's our report for tonight. It is now Tuesday morning here in Kuwait. And we're back here tomorrow. We hope you'll join us.
Until then, good night for all of us at NEWSNIGHT.
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Aired February 10, 2003 - 22:00 ET
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AARON BROWN, CNN HOST: Good evening again. I'm Aaron Brown.
We are coming to you tonight from Kuwait. We'll be here all week for programs.
We begin tonight with a look at the situation here. F. Scott Fitzgerald once wrote something we think is apropos to the way Kuwaitis feel. He wrote the test of first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function.
If that's the case, there are clearly a lot of first-rate minds here in Kuwait. They're being forced to juggle more than a few opposing ideas, fears and opinions.
We've yet to find anyone here who does not want Saddam Hussein gone. They all have vivid, vivid memories of the brutal invasion and the wanton destruction of 12 years ago. But we've also found concern about what a war might mean to the region, what instability, what dangers from an American-led war and a large American presence after that war.
This is a hugely delicate subject. Government officials are not keen to talk about it but most everyone else does and will.
The papers here are full of speculation. Monday the entire front page of the English language paper was filled with stories. Will martial law be declared here in Kuwait? Will the airport close next week? Are there enough gas masks in the country? Will Iraq attack Kuwait? And on it went.
Here there is no question the war is coming. They see the buildup of American troops arriving each every day. The entire northern part of Kuwait is about to be shut down. It is an anxious time where hope and fear seem to be on a collision course.
And a collision course seems to be the phrase of the day as we begin "The Whip." We start with Richard Roth and a little bit of good news coming out of the United Nations.
Richard's in New York. A headline, please.
RICHARD ROTH, CNN SR. UNITED NATIONS CORRESPONDENT: Dr. Blix is back in the U.N. house. His prescription on Iraq will be delivered Friday. Baghdad made it a beautiful day for Blix with a surveillance plane concession.
BROWN: Richard, thank you. Back to you early tonight.
Official disappointment today at the White House in terms of certain allies and their positions on Iraq. A lot of unofficial anger as well.
For that, we go to the White House and our senior White House and correspondent, John King.
John, the headline from there.
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, from the Bush administration perspective, this is a critical week in shaping Iraq policy and you might notice a patent -- pattern. The White House says France is wrong to say inspectors deserve more time. The White house says France is wrong when they say there's no proof that Saddam has weapons of mass destruction. And the White House says France is wrong to be part of an effort to keep NATO from defending Turkey in case of war with Iraq. A tough week ahead for the president -- Aaron.
BROWN: John, thank you.
And the latest now on the unsettling weekend in the United States after the terror threat was raised on Friday.
Jeanne Meserve following that story for us. So Jeanne, a headline from you.
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Administration officials say they don't want to frighten Americans, but they do want the Americans to prepare for the possibility of biological, chemical or radiological attack -- Aaron.
BROWN: Jeanne, thank you. Back to you and the rest shortly.
Also coming up tonight on NEWSNIGHT for Monday, the 10th of February, a question for many Americans: how far is war with Iraq? How far off? For these Americans, the answer is 30 miles. We'll meet some of the U.S. forces who are flooding into the Kuwaiti Desert getting ready for a confrontation they believe certain will come.
We'll talk also with Kuwait's foreign minister who calls Saddam Hussein a serial liar who must be stopped. It was a fascinating conversation we had.
And an indelible image from the last day of the first Gulf War. We'll hear from photographer David Turnley and from a soldier who lost his best friend that day. That's "Segment 7" tonight.
All of that in the hour ahead, a busy one.
We begin with the week of diplomacy, perhaps the last week of diplomacy before a lot more things start happening. Judging by today alone, we've got a busy week in store. Just today, we saw the return of the chief U.N. weapons inspectors from Baghdad, more maneuvering by the French, by the Germans and by the Russian.
And then there was the wild card from Iraq, a concession. Not a concession that pleased the bush administration very much, but enough of a concession to throw a monkey wrench into the machinery, it seems, which some are saying was exactly the point the Iraqis were trying to make.
Our reporting begins at the United Nations. Here again, CNN's Richard Roth.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROTH (voice-over): Flying back from Baghdad, chief U.N. weapons inspector Hans Blix got some favorable news about another airplane in his sights.
After months of objections, Iraq will now permit U-2 surveillance overflights.
MOHAMMED ALDOURI, IRAQI AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: Regarding the question of U-2, right now it's resolved.
ROTH: A different story after talks in Baghdad concluded Sunday. Iraq told Blix it would decide whether to allow the U-2 by Friday. So, a concession. But Blix told me on the ride home there are still many other disarmament gaps, despite a handover of some documents.
HANS BLIX, CHIEF U.N. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: There are hundreds of questions that will need to be resolved and of course we got a declaration, but we did not feel that there is new evidence in that declaration and we think that that's what is needed.
ROTH: Blix started writing an early draft of a highly awaited report he delivers to the Security Council on Iraq this Friday. Also planning, the U.N.'s top diplomat, Kofi Annan, has summoned the Security Council to a Thursday meeting to prepare for any humanitarian emergency if Iraq erupts.
KOFI ANNAN, U.N. SECRETARY-GENERAL: Secretary-General made it very clear that I hope this issue can be resolved peacefully. But, of course, we are also realistic.
ROTH: And so is the chief inspector. He can't rule out a fourth trip to Baghdad, but knows his inspectors may run out of time to receive more cooperation from Iraq or locate weapons of mass destruction.
(on camera): Last week you said it was 5 minutes to midnight on the crisis clock. Now, after your visit, what time is it?
BLIX: Well, maybe you should ask your compatriots in Washington about that.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROTH: And the clock really starts ticking, Aaron, after Friday and after the inspectors' briefing. That's when you're likely to see the beginning of some jousting on a potential second resolution inside the Security Council -- Aaron.
BROWN: Let's deal with that question in a second,.
Let me start with this one. Do you have any feel yet for what the Blix report will say? he seemed to us, at least, a bit pessimistic when he was leaving Baghdad and a little more optimistic now.
ROTH: I asked him about his colleague, Mohamed ElBaradei, saying that he was beginning to see a change of heart in Iraq. Blix did not want to really touch that. He just said, Well, I hope's right. Now there was an opportunity for Blix to be a little bit more upbeat.
And he told me there's just still so many gaps. I just don't see any change by Blix in his presentation. I can't see him going dramatically positive. I could see him staying the same or staying slightly negative. There's still a few more days left for last-minute concessions, though, by Iraq.
BROWN: Now, do you have any feel, Richard -- give us -- can you give us a road map at all for how this second resolution process will work? Will there be more than one resolution put on the table? Who's writing them up? How does this break out?
ROTH: There could be competing drafts. The U.S. may decide not to push for one. Right now it doesn't have enough votes on the table, nine to at least get passage, even if all the other permanent members veto. You're likely to see the British offer a second draft and it's going to call on members to support the Council in living up to the words of the resolution, enforcing it and coming down hard on Iraq. But France is not going to go for that and Germany is certainly without a veto power, but Germany is not going to be in favor.
It still has to play out that way. It's still a little early to say how many pieces of paper there but the super powers, the U.S., and the other permanent countries are still at odds, still, on Iraq policy.
BROWN: Richard, thank you. It will be an interesting week for you at the United Nations next couple of week. Thank you, Richard Roth, in New York.
In a moment we'll get the White House take on what is becoming a very public vexation, being unable to present a united front against Iraq, mostly due to the efforts of France.
But it's not just France. The Germans continue to strongly oppose a war. The Russians seem to be stiffening in their opposition, at least for now. The maneuvering is now intense on both sides of the Atlantic and the White House, for today, at least, seems unable to control it.
First Europe. Here's CNN's Robin Oakley.
(END VIDEOTAPE) ROBIN OAKLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Red roses for the Putins, when Russia's president arrived to see Jacques Chirac.
But no bouquets for President George Bush, when the two men, each holding a veto in the U.N. Security Council, insisted they and Germany haven't seen enough proof against Saddam Hussein to justify military action.
JACQUES CHIRAC, FRENCH PRESIDENT (through translator): Nothing today justifies a war. I think that part of the world doesn't need another war, and I am certain that it is the view of the majority of the world.
OAKLEY: France is calling instead for a tripling of the arms inspectors in Iraq. Mr. Putin pursued a similar line.
VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): We have a joint position with regard to Iraq. Both countries insist that we need to solve the problem diplomatically.
OAKLEY: Another strong repudiation for the U.S. in Brussels, where France and Germany with joined by Belgium in opposing NATO efforts to plan to help turkey in the event of a war with AWAC surveillance planes and Patriot anti-missile batteries. Even planning such action, said the three, would put NATO into a war mind-set.
As heated debate continued, the NATO secretary-general admitted it was bad for the alliance, but he insisted the argument was only about timing.
GEORGE ROBERTSON, NATO SECRETARY GENERAL: We're united in our commitment to the security of all NATO's members. The question is not if but when to begin the planning.
OAKLEY: NATO disarray and the declarations from Chirac and Putin may have made it much harder for the U.S. to win a U.N. blessing for the use of force.
But analysts still find it hard to believe Chirac would actually use a French veto in the Security Council to stop a second resolution.
DOMINIQUE MOISI, FRENCH INSTITUTE OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS: It would be suicidal for them to use it, really. And I think there is that realization in Paris, that this is a weapon you can brandish but never use.
OAKLEY (on camera): For the U.S. seeking to assemble its coalition of the willing against Saddam Hussein, it was a bad day. But Europe, too, is becoming alarmed about the disarray, with five lined up in favor of the U.S. and three declared against. European Union leaders will hold an emergency summit next Monday in search of a common line.
Robin Oakley, CNN, Paris.
(END VIDEOTAPE) BROWN: On to the White House next. The president today hosting a member of that coalition of the willing. The administration taking great care to show that for every France there is an England or a Poland or in the case of today, an Australia. This is also an administration that stays on message. So again today the message was familiar. Here again, our senior White House correspondent, John King.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KING (voice-over): The president said the United Nations should not be fooled by Iraq's sudden decision to allow weapons inspectors to use U-2 surveillance planes.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is a man who is trying to stall for time, he's trying to play a diplomatic game. He's been successful at it for 12 years. But, no, the question is, will he disarm.
KING: Australia is a close friend. Prime Minister John Howard offering support on a day of pointed differences with other traditional allies.
JOHN HOWARD, AUSTRALIAN PRIME MINISTER: The president has shown very strong leadership on a difficult issue.
KING: More White House frustration with France and Germany, this time for their role in blocking the NATO deployment to Turkey.
BUSH: That decision affects the alliance in a negative way. I think it affects the alliance in a negative way when you're not able to make a statement of mutual defense.
KING: Mr. Bush said he hopes NATO reconsiders but will not be held back if it doesn't.
Earlier in Tennessee, the president told religious broadcasts Iraq's preparation for war now includes moving troops into residential areas so it can blame high civilian casualties on the United States.
BUSH: Saddam Hussein regards the Iraqi people as human shields, entirely expendable, when their suffering serves his purposes.
KING: Mr. Bush's strategy faces critical tests in the week ahead. The chief weapons inspectors report to the Security Council on Friday. They say Baghdad is cooperating more but still not fully, and the White House is prepared to argue Iraq is out of time. The administration's goal is a second resolution authorizing military force.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: But if France and others still refuse to go along, some administration officials favor this as a backup plan, having the council simply pass a new resolution that is silent on the issue of military force but does say that Iraq is in material breach of its commitment to fully and completely disarm. The White House would then say under previous U.N. resolutions, Mr. Bush has the authority to use force and go on from there, building that coalition of the willing outside of the blessing of the Security Council -- Aaron.
BROWN: John, how angry are they at what went on today? How angry are they at the French? What's their feeling about the Russians who seemed to stiffen today? What's the private mood, if you will?
KING: On the Russians, they feel quite fine here at the White House. They think in the end they will have consensus with the Russians. They continue to tell us, at least several senior administration officials do, that privately the conversations with the French are relatively encouraging as well, yet they were apoplectic, to say the least, here at the White House today, not so much that President Chirac said the inspectors deserve more time. He has been saying that all along, but one thing he said with President Putin standing by his side was that he has yet to see undisputed proof that Saddam Hussein has no weapons of mass destruction. That took the White House off guard. One senior official saying "he knows better, he has seen the same evidence we do."
That was one thing they didn't appreciate here at the White House. They believe that further muddies the water. They understand the public disagreement with France, they think they can resolve that, but they didn't appreciate what the French president said today -- Aaron.
BROWN: And, John, they must be -- they certainly are aware, tell me if they're concerned, that whether it's the streets of Europe or indeed the streets of Australia, there is great concern about going it alone, if the United States were to go it alone, where public opinion is concerned.
KING: Well, that's one reason Defense Secretary Rumsfeld today took great offense at the term "going it alone." He says there are more than a dozen, well in excess of a dozen countries prepared to move with the United States now, regardless of what the Security Council does. And that, though, the reason you just mentioned, those public opinion polls across the world but especially in Europe, one reason the United States believes the Blix report is so critical. If Dr. Blix, as Richard Roth suggested, goes before the council yet again and says Iraq is still not fully complying, still not accounting for all the weapons programs, the White House believes at that point it can stand up, Secretary Powell and others can stand up and say, you signed on to Resolution 1441, the world must now prove it means what it says. They believe Dr. Blix is key here to helping the White House solidify world opinion.
BROWN: John, thank you, our senior White House correspondent, John King.
And still ahead on NEWSNIGHT from Kuwait, the Department of Homeland Defense begins dispensing advice on how to prepare your home, your life, your family for a possible terror attack.
And later, American Marines in the desert of Kuwait preparing for a possible attack on Iraq. From Kuwait and around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: The sun is starting to come up here on Tuesday morning here in Kuwait, a new day dawning. To say that homeland defense is topic A here in Kuwait would be the understatement of the day. The Iraqis have said if they're attacked by the United States, they will in turn attack Kuwait. Maybe that's bluster, maybe not, but it's not a threat easily dismissed here, not given what happened 12 years ago.
Same is true in the United States. The increase in the threat level last Friday is starting to seep in. And so is a comment made by the Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge the other day.
Just before we left he said go about your normal lives. But it's not a bad idea to sit down with your families and friends and plan how you would stay safe in the event of the unthinkable. Once again, here's CNN's Jeanne Meserve.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MESERVE (voice-over): Increased security on the streets, in the harbor, at the tunnels let you know this wasn't just another Monday in New York City but day four of threat level Orange.
MAYOR MICHAEL BLOOMBERG (R), NEW YORK CITY: We are not going to stop our lives. You can't worry about every single thing. You've got to get on with it.
MESERVE: But officials want Americans to show more concern for their own safety. For the first time they urge the public to read up on the specifics of how to prepare for the possibility of biological, chemical or radiological attack. Have three days of water and nonperishable food on hand and plastic sheeting and duct tape to seal windows, doors and vents. Have a plan for communicating in the event of an emergency and establish a meeting point outside your neighborhood.
GORDON JOHNDROE, HOMELAND SECURITY DEPT. SPOKESMAN: Al Qaeda's interest in obtaining chemical or biological or radiological weapons is not declining. And therefore, should they be successful in their attempts to obtain these types of weapons, we want the American public to be ready.
MESERVE: Sources say the government has sought secret national security warrants to monitor individuals who may have proficiency in making biological weapons. And that al Qaeda is trying to elude monitoring by using disposable cellphones and one-time e-mail accounts.
(on camera): Administration officials say there has been no decrease in the amount of intelligence chatter since the threat level went up to Orange. They can't predict when it can come down but say it certainly won't be before the end of the Hajj later this week.
Jeanne Meserve, CNN, Washington. (END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: A few stories from around the United States tonight beginning with a guilty plea involving a Muslim charity. The head of Benevolence International Foundation pleaded guilty today to illegally buying boots and uniforms for fighting forces in Bosnia and Chechnya.
As part of the plea bargain, prosecutors agreed to drop charges that he also funneled money to al Qaeda. He did admit defrauding donors by telling them the group helped only widows and orphans and poor Muslims.
The latest from the Clara Harris murder trial in Houston. She's the woman accused of killing her husband by running him over after she discovered him having an affair. Police accident investigator testified today that Ms. Harris ran him over at least twice with her Mercedes-Benz. The defense says she ran over him once and that it was an accident.
And, dude, we're going to resist making the pun. Well, obviously we didn't resist completely. Benjamin Curtis, better known as the Dell Dude, was arrested today. He allegedly tried to buy marijuana, a small amount on Manhattan's Lower East Side. Curtis was released today after a judge said the case will be dismissed if he stays out of trouble during the next year.
Still to come on NEWSNIGHT on an early Tuesday morning in Kuwait, we'll go into the North Desert to see how American Marines are getting ready for a possible war with Iraq. This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Just got a late note out of San Diego, California. The former White House Press Secretary Ron Ziegler has died. If you're a Watergate aficionado that is a name you know very well.
For many years, he was the voice and the face of the Nixon administration, including the administration spokesman in it's the most difficult time, the dying days of Watergate. It was Ron Ziegler who will be remembered we suppose best for describing Watergate as a "third rate burglary."
To say the least, he was a reflection of his boss. He was suspicious of the press, he was combative, he was often brutally tough. He did his job with zeal and much of that job involved answering some very difficult questions at a very difficult time for his boss and for the country. Ron Ziegler died today of a heart attack. He was 63.
Back here in Kuwait, this is a small country as we talked about yesterday if you were with us last night. Out in the desert now in this small land there are literally tens of thousands of American soldiers and Marines. More are arriving each and every day. They are training to be sure, but they are also doing what no amount of training can really prepare you for. They're waiting.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN (voice-over): Here in the vastness of the Kuwaiti desert, less than 20 miles from the border with Iraq, this is what the reality of war sounds like.
(GUNSHOTS)
BROWN: American Marines, most of whom have been in the desert fro no more that tow weeks, are ratcheting up their training schedules, cleaning and adjusting their weapons.
And for these Marines, that kind of routine actually means something. These are combat engineers. They will be among the first to go in if American land forces are called upon to invade Iraq.
LANCE CPL. LUCAS PALLAN, U.S. MARINES: Work with the explosives. They explode through mine fields or wire, whatever we have to do.
BROWN: If you see concern on the faces of these Marines, some of it is being erased by men like First Sergeant Michael Miller.
1ST SGT. MICHAEL MILLER, U.S. MARINES: Everybody understands how this comes together now, right?
BROWN: The reason is that Sergeant Miller has been here before. He was in the Marines, on the ground during the first Gulf War.
MILLER: Marines are the same. I think the job we're going to do is probably going to be about the same ones this thing kick off. I don't see it no more than three months we should wrap it up.
BROWN: And that says the sergeant is not born of arrogance but experience.
MILLER: With the doctrine that we've studied with Saddam, with him and the mine fields and the way that we are going to breach his mind fields he needs artillery and air to support it. But by the time we go across the border, he won't have the air and artillery to support it. So we can take out time getting across the minefields and make it to our objectives.
BROWN: Every day more men and material are moving across the desert. The U.S. forces are getting reintroduced to some powerful weapons. This, for instance, is a Mark-19, a grenade launcher that can take out an energy troop carrier at a half a mile. They treat it with tender and loving care.
LANCE CPL. JOSEPH GREMLICH, U.S. MARINES: It's different than actually training when you know you're about to go into it for real. I'm pretty sure everybody's ready.
BROWN: Whether it is weapons like these or smaller weapons like M-16s that these Marines will carry into battle. They know that they are part of a land armada that is growing here in Kuwait quite literally every hour and every day. Equipment is being unloaded at Kuwaiti ports at a furious pace. American convoys growl through the streets of Kuwait City on a routine basis. And while there may be a great deal of nervousness, you can't find many of the Marines who will say so out loud. They are, after all, Marines.
MILLER: They've been trained by the best, been prepared by the best. So, the confidence level is there. I don't see any problem. Maybe when we get the order to go across, there might be a few nerves. But we got good NCOs. We got good small unit leaders. And they'll adapt and overcome. That's just the way Marine Corps has been doing it for over 225 years.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: We were out with a biochemical unit yesterday. And one of the things they were doing was just getting used to the weather, wearing their heavy suits in the heat in the middle of the day just to acclimatize. It is part of the work of preparing.
Still to come on NEWSNIGHT: more on how the United States and its forces are getting ready. We'll bring our generals together to get their thoughts on what's going on -- that and more as NEWSNIGHT continues from Kuwait.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: And next on NEWSNIGHT: the generals, Generals Clark, Shepperd, and Grange. We'll get their opinions on the preparations for a possible war with Iraq and the dangers in waiting.
This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: A moment ago, we got a picture of confidence from American forces, at least the confidence they seem to have that a war, should it come, would be over quickly and decisively. Today, a veteran Pentagon watcher went so far as to call the groundwork 12 years ago stately by comparison to what may soon be coming. There is talk of things like shock and awe, rolling starts, vertical envelopment, Greek to us, to be honest.
Fortunately, a translation is available from our panel of retired generals, esteemed they are: Wesley Clark in Little Rock, Arkansas, tonight. Don Shepperd and David Grange join us from Atlanta.
It's good you all back home.
General Grange, let me start with you.
Let's just say for a second these are your troops under your command. Right now, today, what's your biggest concern?
RETIRED BRIG. GEN. DAVID GRANGE, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: The biggest concern is that you've done everything at the end of each day or each night of a training segment, you've done everything you can do to be ready. And you're never 100 percent, Aaron. But you continue to drive on to do that, so, when the time comes to move out, your people are ready.
BROWN: This may sound silly. And I apologize for it.
Is there any concern, to use a sports analogy, that your troops will peak too soon?
GRANGE: Well, you can peak.
But the key to a good command -- I think the first sergeant you just -- you had on a little while ago epitomizes just that baseline of our sergeants, of our young officers in the United States armed forces, that they do peak, but you keep being innovative on training ideas. So, you could come up with great ways to keep ready, to keep troops occupied, to plan for different contingencies for whatever may come your way.
BROWN: And General Shepperd, you were a flier. What are the guys, the pilots doing these days? Same sort of thing, running missions and the like?
RETIRED MAJOR GEN. DONALD SHEPPERD, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes.
They're running the missions on a regular daily bases, training just like we do back at home station, except they are, many of them, deployed to the area of operations, or the AOR. The other thing that they're doing is, they're flying missions in northern watch and southern watch. And unbeknownst to a lot of people, we've had a war going on for almost the last 10 years. These guys are going out and getting shot out almost every day and attacking targets in retaliation. This has been serious business for a long time. So, they have been peaked for a long time, Aaron, on the air side.
BROWN: And, General Clark, is there -- look, part of the job of a military commander is to prepare for everything imaginable. So, clearly, there's preparation. Is it a realistic thought that Saddam might strike first?
RETIRED GENERAL. WESLEY CLARK, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: It is a realistic concern.
And we have to have our eyes and ears out there. We've got to have our unmanned reconnaissance, our manned reconnaissance up. And we have got to be ready to strike preemptively against him should he deploy, let's say, artillery or rockets to go against us.
BROWN: And would that be -- if these were your guys out there at this moment, would that be the concern, that it would be a conventional attack? Or are you more concerned about a chem or biological attack?
CLARK: We're most vulnerable in the period where we're concentrated in Kuwait, before we start to move. Once we start to move and we spread out and we're a moving target, it's much harder to hit us with chemicals. He could still lay some kind of bioattack on us. So, we'd be concerned about the vulnerability right now to a weapons of mass destruction attack. Obviously, if we can see him moving to set something like that up, we would strike first.
BROWN: General Grange, at this moment, we talk a lot, it seems to me, about that we're not -- we, the United States forces, the U.S. forces, or allied forces, or the coalition forces -- are not quite ready yet. How far from ready, in your estimation, are they?
GRANGE: Well, the forces that are there now are quite ready.
I think you're referring to the buildup to cover any contingencies or the optimum fore-structure to conduct an attack on Iraq. And we're not there yet, as you see the buildup continue. And the buildup is going to continue until you have overwhelming force to take down a regime rapidly, with the simultaneity to hit with both ground and air, to take down critical targets, to keep oil fields from being blown, to keep the use of chemical or biological weapons on our troops or on civilian populace.
So, that force is not there yet. And we're looking probably at the very beginning of March.
BROWN: Let me go back to General Clark for a second and turn this conversation just slightly.
Wes, you're just back from Europe. You had a long relationship with NATO. There was this issue with NATO, to put it mildly, today. Give me your sense of the ground in Europe and where -- not so much where they are today, but where they'll end up and the problems it poses.
CLARK: Well, this is a struggle within NATO. It's been brought into NATO because it's really a struggle over U.S. policy. It's not going to be the end of NATO, but it certainly is a blow that indicates the fragility of trans-Atlantic alliances.
I think where this is going to end up, Aaron, is, we're going to see France and Belgium and Germany eventually agree to some planning for Turkey. I think, eventually, France and Belgium -- at least France -- will come on with the United States and, if there is to be a war in Iraq, they'll be with us on this. I think Germany is unable to get out of the hole that they're in with their domestic political situation. I think they're going to sit this one out.
BROWN: Soon, I'd like to talk about the roots of some of this. We don't have the time for it tonight.
Gentlemen, thank you. It's always good to talk to you, even from a long way away. Thank you very much.
And ahead on NEWSNIGHT, live from Kuwait: the view from inside Kuwait with the man who is the minister of state for foreign affairs, the foreign minister here.
And later: a look back at the last Gulf War and an image from it that lingers on. We'll meet the photographer and the subject, as NEWSNIGHT continues on CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: And next on NEWSNIGHT: the Kuwaiti government's official position on the possibility, perhaps even the likelihood, of a war with Iraq.
This is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Were it not for the roadblocks and the checkpoints, you could drive from where we are right now to the border with Iraq in about an hour, maybe a little less.
It makes sense, then, that the Kuwaiti government was one of the first to back the United States in this current confrontation with Iraq. And at least among the leaders here, there is no belief that Saddam can, will ever turn over a new leaf.
I spoke earlier with Sheikh Dr. Mohammed Al Sabah, the Kuwaiti minister of state for foreign affairs.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Do you think it's possible, at this point, that a war can be averted?
SHEIKH MOHAMMED AL SABAH, KUWAITI MINISTER OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS: I think that there is a very slim opportunity here. And, really, the matter is up to Saddam Hussein, what he wants to do. He has the power to save his people from such agony.
BROWN: Assume for a moment that he were to agree to go into exile and that he would take his family and, let's say, the top leadership with him. At that point, is there a need for a war?
AL SABAH: I think the war is not an end by itself. It's a means to achieve something.
What we want to achieve is the full implementation of the Security Council resolutions. We want the cease-fire resolution that was passed in April of 1991. That's 12 years ago. We want that resolution to be implemented fully and for Iraq to comply fully with that resolution. It deals with the weapons of mass destruction. It deals with the Iraqi respect for its neighbors and it deals with Kuwaiti POWs. So, in that sense, I hope that we can achieve these things without a war.
The matter of Saddam to take the other option of an exile, that I think would certainly open a big window and a big opportunity to resolve this issue without a war. BROWN: What is it that makes you nervous here, specifically? What are the concerns?
AL SABAH: Well, we have absolutely no illusion about the existence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. We have no illusions about the intent of Saddam Hussein to use these chemical weapons. And we have no illusions about the -- that, in the event of a war, that Saddam are ready to use these weapons against us, against Kuwait. This is our primary concern.
For that reason, we in the Kuwaiti government have taken all kinds of necessary measures, precautions, contingency plannings to safeguard against that event.
BROWN: Is there some concern that the American goal here is something more than simply regime change in Baghdad?
AL SABAH: Well, the United States is the sole superpower in this world. It's the only game in town, if you will.
Twelve years ago, the United States led the effort to liberate my country. President Bush then, Bush I, decided to stop the war once Kuwait was liberated. And he said that there was no U.N. mandate to go to Baghdad. He had the chance. He had the opportunity. He had the power to do that. Yet, he decided to stick to the strict implementation of the Security Council resolution.
I don't really second-guess this administration when it makes its commitment to implement these resolutions strictly and to enforce them even with the use of force. In that sense, it's clear what is the American intention. And it is basically the enforcement of these resolutions.
BROWN: Do you have any concerns that what is now Iraq could devolve into a total, uncontrollable mess of retribution, violence, war?
AL SABAH: Well, again, I beg to disagree with the premise of this question there.
The premise is that Iraq now is a functioning state and a stable state. I think Iraq, on the contrary, is a failed state. I think Iraq cannot be put together back as one functioning state with the current regime in power. I think that the only way to bring back the Iraqis together if there is a proper government that can be -- can live within peace -- with peace within its own borders and can live with peace within its own region.
BROWN: It was nice to meet you, sir. Thank you for talking to us.
AL SABAH: Thank you very much, indeed.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: That is the official government view from here. It is not necessarily the view of everyone here. And as we go along this week, you'll hear more on that.
As we wrap up your Monday from Kuwait and start our Tuesday, NEWSNIGHT continues with a look back at a memorable photograph from the first Gulf War. And we'll meet the man who took the picture and the man in the picture.
It's segment seven, as we continue from Kuwait.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Imagine what it's like to witness a heartbreaking moment in the life of a perfect stranger. Photographer David Turnley does it for a living. He's in Syria now, helping to cover the region for CNN. And he has been here before. He took a remarkable photo at the very end of the Gulf War.
You may remember it as capturing the horror of the war. Turnley remembers it as a moment he saw a man lose his best friend.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID TURNLEY, PHOTOGRAPHER: We flew deep into Iraq near the Euphrates River. There were several Bradley Fighting Vehicles, one of which had clearly taken a direct hit.
The medics helped two of these soldiers into the helicopter and then went back to the tank and collected the body of the driver. And they brought the body bag then to the helicopter. I got in. My knees are touching the soldier in front of me as we lift off. The medic on the right passed the identity card of the soldier in the body bag across in front of the soldier on my left. And it was at that moment that he grabbed the identity card and looked at it and realized that the man in the body bag was his best friend.
We touched down. Ken got out of the helicopter. And that was the last time I saw them in 1991. I hadn't spoken to him in 12 years, but I have seen this man's face in this photograph so many times and remember as if it was yesterday. The impending war provoked me to want to go to Buffalo and meet this young man to see how he's doing.
How you doing, buddy? Haven't seen you in a long time.
KEN KOZAKIEWICZ, GULF WAR VETERAN: How you doing?
TURNLEY: Good to see you.
It was one of those moments when this deep sense of knowing someone who you don't know.
KOZAKIEWICZ: So he gave me his I.D. And then I found out. And that's when you took the picture. See, I didn't know you were there, actually, until you took the picture. And then I looked up and that's the first time I saw you. Everybody knows me as the guy in the picture.
TURNLEY: Really? (LAUGHTER)
TURNLEY: That's amazing.
KOZAKIEWICZ: Yes.
You got to try and put it behind you, but you can't, and just get on with your life. And that's what I've been trying to do.
TURNLEY: Yes.
KOZAKIEWICZ: For a long time, that's all I ever thought about. Several different times during the course of a day, it would flash back.
TURNLEY: I think this event has haunted him. And it just sort of reinforces, even beyond the photograph, the reality of war, that human life is at risk, and every time that one of these young men or women go overseas to defend their country, there's a very real chance they're not going to come home. And I think that, no matter what people feel politically about any given situation, they need to remember that.
We enter the lives of people in very intimate ways. And I'm also extremely conscious of just the privilege of that and the sensation that it's important for me that the dignity of these young guys be very present, be felt, and certainly that they know what my intentions are, what my intentions were when I made that picture.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Whatever your view on the politics of all of this, remember those words. They matter.
That's our report for tonight. It is now Tuesday morning here in Kuwait. And we're back here tomorrow. We hope you'll join us.
Until then, good night for all of us at NEWSNIGHT.
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