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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown

Osama Bin Laden Sends Message on Tape to Iraqis; Interview With Senator Evan Bayh

Aired February 11, 2003 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


AARON BROWN, HOST: Good evening again on a chilly Wednesday morning in Kuwait. Here is an odd truth, and an unexpected one at that. It is very likely that we feel safer here than many of you do back at home.
Now that is not to say that things here in Kuwait are some sort of paradise. We notice that they put shelter signs up in our hotel today. One of those signs of preparation just in case.

But from what we hear from the United States, the anxiety there among many of you is deep. This morning, the CIA director said an attack could come as early as this week, with chemicals or poisons or radioactive material. And in case you didn't catch the gravity of all of that, he added that this is the most specific threat they've seen.

And there are signs that you Americans are listening. There are some reports that hardware stores in the country are running out of duct tape. As someone at a Home Depot put it, "You wouldn't believe how much we've sold."

So we find this an odd set of circumstances. As we sit here, we know that should Iraq to do so, Saddam could lob one of his cheap little missiles into the heart of Kuwait City, that he could attack with chemical or biological weapons in an instant. We know that, and yet perhaps foolishly we believe he won't. But that's not how this thing is going to unfold.

On the other hand, we're less certain about attacks in the United States. Al Qaeda's hatred for the United States needs no more supporting evidence than September 11. That was plenty enough for us. And unlike the Iraqis, whose every move is seen by American spy satellites and every word captured by the NSA, al Qaeda looks around mostly unseen, mostly unnoticed, and from all that we can tell and from what the government says, still able to hit and hit hard.

Our friends every day send us notes here telling us to be safe. Our worries should be the other way around.

On to the news of date, which brought a new bin Laden tape. And so "The Whip" begins tonight with our national security correspondent David Ensor. David, a headline from you.

DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well it's a 16-minute audiotape, Aaron, full of hatred, and including a call to arms to Iraqi Muslims asking them to help fight the American infidels.

BROWN: David, thank you.

The reaction now from the Bush administration. Andrea Koppel at the State Department is covering that for us. Andrea, a headline.

ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, hours before the tape was broadcast, it was Secretary of State Powell who broke the news, looking to exploit the tape and Osama bin Laden's threats to bolster the U.S. case against Iraq.

BROWN: Andrea, thank you.

And finally in "The Whip" tonight, the latest on the investigation into the shuttle disaster. Kathleen Koch reporting that for us. Kathleen, a headline.

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, after airplane accidents they always release the very compelling control tower tapes. Well, today we heard the tapes from mission control the day that Columbia fell to Earth and how NASA personnel never lost their composure, even as they lost hope -- Aaron.

BROWN: Kathleen, thank you. Back to all of you in a moment.

Also coming up on NEWSNIGHT for this 11th day of February, the voice, the message and the threat to the west. We'll have more on the audiotape released today by Al-Jazeera with someone who knows the voice of Osama bin Laden well. CNN terror analyst Peter Bergen will join us.

The fires that were described with no exaggeration as hell on Earth. We'll look at the devastation caused when Iraq set Kuwait's oil fields on fire a decade ago, and the possibility that the region will see more fires if it comes to war.

And the Oscar drama that wasn't nominated today. The case of "The Fugitive" director starring Roman Polanski. That's "Segment 7" later in the hour. All of that in the hour ahead. We'll see how the voice holds up.

Here we go. Tonight in Washington, anti-aircraft batteries once again ring the city. They went up this afternoon. No specific reason for their deployment given, just part of the routine, we are told. That goes with being at a threat level orange. Which ought not lend the impression today that there was any lack of specifics out in Washington.

As we said at the top, there was strong testimony on Capitol Hill laying out what the intelligence community has gleaned about possible targets and timing of al Qaeda's next move. And framing it all, of course, that tape. So we begin our coverage with CNN's David Ensor.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ENSOR (voice-over): The tape, say U.S. officials, bears the trademark of Osama bin Laden, full of hatred for infidels. This time with a call for Iraqis to attack Americans using suicide bombers and to draw American troops into combat in Iraqi cities.

OSAMA BIN LADEN (through translator): Our brothers, the Mujahideen in Iraq, don't worry about America's lies about the powers and the military might. The smart bombs they talk about will do nothing when it comes to bunkers.

ENSOR: On the 16-minute tape, bin Laden addresses Muslims, especially those in Iraq. He tells them against America and its allies it is legitimate for Muslims to fight alongside Saddam Hussein. Bin Laden refers to the U.S. and its allies as the crusaders. He calls Saddam's Bathist Party the communists.

BIN LADEN (through translator): If the Muslims and the communists get together to fight the crusaders, that's OK.

ENSOR: Fight alongside Saddam, bin Laden tells Iraqi Muslims in effect. Though bin Laden suggests it will not matter if Saddam loses power.

PETER BERGEN, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: I don't see this as a sort of ringing endorsement of Saddam. I do see it as a call to arms to the Iraqi people.

ENSOR: On the tape, bin Laden boasts that he and his al Qaeda fighters managed to hold out for days in Tora Bora, Afghanistan, and then to escape because the U.S. sent bombs but no close-in troops. Iraqis, he said, could do the same.

BIN LADEN (through translator): The U.S. forces never dared attack our positions. This is the perfect proof for you how cowardly they are and how they make up stories about their bravery and their victory.

ENSOR: Intelligence analysts note that this tape is much clearer than the last one, which sounded like it might have been taped over a phone line. This time, bin Laden is recorded well, and officials say he also sounds more confident.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ENSOR: The tape's release is seen as ominous, although U.S. intelligence officials say bin Laden's embrace of the Iraqi cause may help convince some doubters that al Qaeda's and Iraqi's dictators are part of the same problem. That certainly is the hope of the Bush administration -- Aaron.

BROWN: Well, it seems to us, I guess, that you could read that a couple of different ways. You can also read it that, while he has affection and support for the Iraqi people, he has troubles with the Iraqi government.

ENSOR: Yes, and this tape is not unmitigated good news for the U.S. I mean, clearly, it may cause some to rally to bin Laden's side as well. So it's a very mixed picture and quite a worrisome development, no question.

BROWN: David, thank you. National security correspondent David Ensor in Washington.

Also in Washington with us is CNN's terrorism analyst, Peter Bergen. You saw him in David's piece a moment ago. Peter, let's start with this question of al Qaeda, bin Laden and Iraq. How ought we hear bin Laden's words in that regard?

BERGEN: Well, he only mentioned Saddam once, and it's hardly a glowing reference. He actually said, if Saddam disappears, it's not the end of the world. I mean he's clearly trying to incite the Iraqi people to rise up against a possible invasion by the western forces. But I think anybody who is convinced that there is a Saddam-al Qaeda connection will look to this tape as evidence of that. People who remain unconvinced will also find evidence for that stand.

BROWN: So there's a little bit of something for everybody. Who is the audience for this tape? Who is he trying to get to?

BERGEN: Well, the Iraqi people. But I think also people around the Middle East. I mean one of the things he says in the tape, Aaron, is that Middle Eastern regimes are too cooperative with the United States. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) He mentions Jordan, Morocco, Saudi Arabia, even throwing in Nigeria, which is an African country, obviously, for good measure, which he's never mentioned before. So he's looking to rise up the whole Uma (ph), the community of Muslim believers against the apparent invasion of Iraq, or the apparently imminent invasion of Iraq.

BROWN: Peter, let me go back to maybe what I should have asked you first here. When you first heard this tape or first read the transcript, what jumped into your mind first? You're someone who has sat with him, you know him, you have a great feel for him.

BERGEN: Well, the first thing that jumped into my mind was that it was him. And the second thing, you know, David's piece I think is correct. I mean this is a -- he sounds quite well. I mean the last tape we heard from him in October was only four minutes.

It did demonstrate, I think, that he was alive, because he referenced the attack in Indonesia on the Bali disco. But this tape is a much more -- you know, it's 16 minutes. It's focused, he sounds pretty lucid. We don't know exactly when it was made because obviously the potential of a war against Iraq has been going on for some time. But it struck me that this was a pretty confident performance by him.

BROWN: Does that tell us anything about the success to date of the war on al Qaeda?

BERGEN: Well the war on al Qaeda on some levels has been a big success in the sense that, since September 11, actually very few members of Americans have been killed by al Qaeda or its affiliates. In fact, probably no more than a dozen. Obviously each an individual tragedy, but nothing remotely on the scale of 9/11.

However, there is much business that is yet undone. I mean most of the top leadership of al Qaeda remains unaccounted for, and clearly they're back in business. Around the anniversary of 9/11, al Qaeda became reenergized, and we saw attacks on the disco in Indonesia. We saw an attack on an oil tanker in Yemen, the assassination of a U.S. diplomat in Kuwait, other attacks around the Middle East, attempts by this group to pull off attacks on U.S. warships in the Straits of Gibraltar.

So they definitely got reenergized within the past few weeks and past few months. A war in Iraq is going to be a moment for al Qaeda to really show itself. I think that al Qaeda will -- if it can't do something big (UNINTELLIGIBLE) to the war in Iraq, then we can sort of say, OK, they're out of business.

But it's quite clear from all the chatter we've -- U.S. officials are talking about, but also I've talked to some people who are familiar with al Qaeda's thinking, they are talking about an attack that would be fairly spectacular tied to the war in Iraq. Of course, you expect them to say that. However, that's what they're saying.

BROWN: Peter, thank you. Peter Bergen joining us in Washington with his view on this latest bin Laden tape.

More now on how the administration went about making the connection today between al Qaeda and Iraq. This is obviously a very important connection for the administration to make as it presses its case for a possible war with Iraq. It's an even more delicate thing outside the United States, where there is deep suspicion about the administration's motives.

The administration seems to be aware of the risks of overstating its case, but today at least chose to press ahead fairly hard. The effort began with the secretary of state, who first revealed the existence of this tape. So here again, CNN's Andrea Koppel.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL (voice-over): Without saying how he knew, Secretary of State Powell told U.S. senators a new message believed to be from Osama bin Laden would soon be broadcast on the Al-Jazeerza Arab satellite network.

COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: ... where, once again, he speaks to the people of Iraq and talks about their struggle and how he is in partnership with Iraq. This nexus between terrorist and states that are developing weapons of mass destruction can no longer be looked away from and ignored.

KOPPEL: And while Powell stopped short of explicitly accusing Saddam Hussein himself of being in cahoots with bin Laden, in a live interview with Al-Jazeera Tuesday, Powell's spokesman came close.

RICHARD BOUCHER, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: We're very careful about making the case on solid grounds, not overstating it. But this does confirm that bin Laden and Saddam Hussein seem to find common cause together.

KOPPEL: That cause, he said, a common hatred of the United States. A point underscored by the White House.

ARI FLEISCHER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: What the secretary has eluded to this morning gives further proof of the concerns that we have about Iraq and al Qaeda linking up.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL: Now privately, U.S. officials tell CNN they learned of the bin Laden tape and its contents only yesterday but weren't sure when Al-Jazeera would broadcast it. Nevertheless, officials decided to exploit the tape, Aaron, in order to reinforce Powell's presentation at the U.N. last week in which he laid out evidence of Saddam Hussein's alleged links to al Qaeda -- Aaron.

BROWN: I don't want to put too fine a point on this, but again, it does seem from here that you can read the tape a couple of different ways where this connection is concerned. It's one thing to be sympathetic to the plight of the Iraqi people, which clearly bin Laden is. It just seemed less clear to me that he was sympathetic to Saddam himself.

KOPPEL: That is a point that the administration privately will acknowledge. Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein have never been friends. They -- forget about respecting one another. Bin Laden views Saddam Hussein as a bad Muslim and many experts would say that Saddam Hussein would never give chemical or biological weapons to any other terrorists, including al Qaeda, knowing that would be pretty much putting an X on Baghdad for U.S. bombs to drop.

So the U.S. is clearly, Aaron, trying to seize upon a very narrow slice of this tape. They are trying to leave open the question in the minds of viewers around the world, is it possible that al Qaeda, that Saddam Hussein and the head of al Qaeda, are somehow or another trying to help one another out? What the U.S. cannot explain, however, is how or if Saddam Hussein has ever expressed any willingness to help al Qaeda, there clearly pointing out that al Qaeda is showing sympathy for the Iraqi people.

BROWN: Andrea, thank you. Andrea Koppel tonight.

Even without another bin Laden tape, if that's what this turns out to be -- it seems pretty clear it is -- there's already plenty out there to keep you awake at night and keep you concerned. Those missiles we mentioned around Washington, D.C. for one.

Also, new talk of what al Qaeda might be up to, where and when. That talk came from the heads of the FBI and the CIA. They went before the Senate Intelligence Committee today, and among the headlines, the FBI director, Robert Mueller, raising the specter of al Qaeda cells already inside the United States but not yet on law enforcement's radar screen. Here's CNN's Kelli Arena.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): AS the nation remains on high alert, intelligence chiefs offered a sobering assessment to Congress of the current al Qaeda threat and the possibility of an attack as early as this week.

GEORGE TENET, CIA DIRECTOR: It points to plots that could include the use of a radiological dispersal device, as well as poisons and chemicals. The intelligence is not idle chatter on the part of terrorists or their associates. It is the most specific we have seen.

ARENA: FBI Director Robert Mueller warned of hundreds of al Qaeda sympathizers in the United States and the possibility that undetected sleeper cells lay in wait to strike.

ROBERT MUELLER, FBI DIRECTOR: Our greatest threat is from al Qaeda cells in the United States that we have not yet been able to identify. Finding and rooting out al Qaeda members once they have entered the United States...

ARENA: From some Democrats, skepticism about Secretary Powell's assertion at the U.N. that there are ties between al Qaeda and the Iraqi government. The discussion focused on Abu Mussab al-Zarkawi (ph), the al Qaeda associate who the CIA says spent time in Baghdad. And whether intelligence suggests he and his associates are under the control of the Iraqi government.

SEN. CARL LEVIN (D), INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: You're saying that you don't know if they're under the support -- that they are under the control or direction?

TENET: Sir, what we've said is Zarkawi (ph) and this large number of operatives are in Baghdad. They say the environment is good. And it is inconceivable to us that the Iraqi intelligence service doesn't know that they live there or what they're doing.

ARENA: As for the threat Iraq itself poses, officials say Saddam Hussein will use weapons of mass destruction against the United States if there is a war.

TENET: One thing you have to remember is Saddam Hussein built a WMD program with inspectors living in his country for years. He understood how to acquire chemical and biological capabilities. He understood how to establish a clandestine procurement network. He understands how to cross borders.

ARENA (on camera): Despite that assessment, officials say current tensions with Baghdad are not a factor in determining the risk of another terror attack. They say al Qaeda is determined to strike regardless and will do so in its own timeframe. Kelli Arena, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: As we said, it's an odd set of circumstances that we feel somewhat safer here in Kuwait than many of you must feel back at home. Still ahead tonight on NEWSNIGHT, we'll talk with Senator Evan Bayh to get his take on the intelligence briefings that went on today on Capitol Hill. And of course the latest on the shuttle investigation, as NASA releases recordings of conversations between the astronauts and ground controllers. Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT from Kuwait.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: More now on what was said before the Senate Intelligence Committee. We're joined in Washington by a member of that committee, the Democratic senator from Indiana, Evan Bayh. Senator Bayh, it's good to you have with us today.

Let me get this one out of the way first, because there are a fairly good number of people in the United States strongly opposed to the war who see this elevated terror threat that went into effect last Friday as just part of a propaganda campaign by the administration to garner support. Deal with that question, then we'll deal with today.

SEN. EVAN BAYH (D), INDIANA: Well, Aaron, I can understand why some people would be opposed to taking action at this time in Iraq, but I can tell that you it is not a part of any sort of ploy to generate public sport. It's a confluence of factors.

You have the end of the Hajj coinciding with the bin Laden tape, coinciding with possible military action. Also coinciding with the kind of traffic that we're picking up now that's more specific in terms of a possible geographic locations for attacks, times for attacks, methods for attacks. Aaron, you put all that together and it just leads to the kind of heightened sense of warning that has led to increasing the alert in the past.

BROWN: What if anything does this tell us about the success to date of the war on terror and the war on al Qaeda?

BAYH: Well, as your previous expert indicated, there have not been large scale attacks since 9/11, thank goodness. The fact that bin Laden is communicating from some remote cave in hiding is also an indication, although we've not either apprehended him or killed him, which is disappointing. It indicates that he's still on the run. So there's good news and bad news.

The bad news, of course, is that we're still under a threat. They're out there, Aaron. They're very determined and they're adaptable. They see what our reactions are, they change their pattern of behavior correspondingly. That's why their threat is so difficult to contain entirely.

BROWN: What did you hear -- was there a moment in the hearing today that will in a sense keep you up tonight? Was there one specific moment that you can point to as troubling?

BAYH: Well, a couple. You had George Tenet indicate that an attack could come as soon as this week if in fact there is an attack. And then you had the FBI director indicate that there are possibly several hundred radical Islamists in the country who are involved in raising funds and possibly providing support for al Qaeda cells of which we're unaware.

So you combine those two things and it's a troubling situation, Aaron. But I would hasten to add to your viewers as well, we've had alerts in the past, thank god nothing's happened. We're being much more proactive in trying to seek out those who would do us harm and prevent that. So, again, it's a good news-bad news situation. Unfortunately it's a fact of life we're just going to have to learn to live with.

BROWN: Explain something to me. How is it that we can suspect that there are some al Qaeda operatives or radical Islamists in the country that they're raising money -- we know that, at least according to the FBI director -- and yet we don't know who they are and where they are and we can't keep track of them? How can both things be true?

BAYH: Well, it is true that we know of some of them and we can track some of them. But by definition, Aaron, you don't know what you don't know. There may be others out there that we're unaware of and have not been able to trace yet. That's the real risk.

And so we're following up on the different leads as rapidly as we can. But they've been here a long time, they've been at this awhile. As we learned following 9/11, they can be fairly sophisticated. And so there's a possibility of some elements being in this country that we are simply unaware of at this time. That's why vigilance is important.

BROWN: Senator, I think we all long for the day when we can exhale again. Thank you, Senator Evan Bayh, the Democratic senator from Indiana tonight.

Coming up on NEWSNIGHT here, we'll update the shuttle investigation. NASA today releasing audiotapes of conversations with the astronauts. We'll have that story in a moment, as NEWSNIGHT continues from Kuwait on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: We said the other night shortly after the shuttle tragedy that the three men in the orbiting space station, the international space station, must surely feel like the loneliest men in the universe. Not only were they having to deal with the trauma of the disaster, the death of good friends, they were for now at least somewhat stranded.

Today we heard from the astronauts in the space station saying, one, "My first reaction to the shuttle tragedy was pure shock. I was numb. It was hard to believe that what we were experiencing was really happening."

After listening to some of the tapes today released by NASA, we can imagine a similar feeling among some of the folks at mission control that morning. The gradual, unthinkable realization that a routine landing was turning out to be anything but. Once again, here's CNN's Kathleen Koch.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) KOCH (voice-over): The first indication of trouble came just five minute before the shuttle disintegrated. A NASA engineer reports sensors on the left wing going out.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: FYI, I have just lost four separate temperature transducers on the left side of the vehicle.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

KOCH: In the 30 seconds before Columbia's final transmission, NASA calmly notes more problems.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We just lost tire pressure on left outboard and left inboard, both tires.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And Columbia, Houston, we see your tire pressure messages. And we did not copy your last...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is it instrumentation, Max?

(CROSSTALK)

(END AUDIO CLIP)

KOCH: Mission control thinks Columbia has plunged into the brief period where communication sometimes drops out, but too many seconds tick by.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You were expecting a little bit of ratty com, but not this long?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's correct, flight. I expected it to be a little bit intermittent. And this is pretty solid right here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOCH: Houston, in vain, tries backup radio frequencies to reach the shuttle.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Columbia, Houston, UHF com check. Columbia, Houston, UHF com check.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

KOCH: Minutes later, reality sets in.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lock the doors. Copy.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

KOCH: Mission control locks the doors and orders flight controllers to save all data in their workspaces.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's for your work stations logs, display printouts. There's a whole list of data collection items that we need to make sure we log through.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

KOCH: Anxious to sift through that data: the new Columbia accident investigation board. At its first press conference, it said it would be searching for the truth, not pointing fingers.

RET. ADM. HAROLD GEHMAN, U.S. NAVY: We want to find the causes of this, not the guilty parties.

KOCH: As the first truckloads of shuttle debris headed for Kennedy Space Center in Florida, the board says, so far, no shuttle parts have been found West of Fort Worth, Texas. But it insists the search in Western states will continue because it is possible something, perhaps key evidence, is out there.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOCH: Meanwhile, the board is ordering thermal tests to check the heat resistance of shuttle wings and their protective tiles. And NASA will be putting a mock-up shuttle wing in a high-speed wind tunnel to see just how different patterns of damage to the tiles or to that very critical leading edge of the wing affects the shuttle's temperature and stability -- Aaron.

BROWN: A week ago, Kathleen, when we were in Houston, it seemed like this investigation was moving at a very rapid clip. Now the reverse seems true, that it really is back to square one.

KOCH: Well, Aaron, this board said when they took the investigation that it would really become more like a National Transportation Safety Board investigation. And that's where you get basically just the facts, ma'am. They will not be interpreting. They will not be giving you their pet theory of the day.

And they are, though, going to try to work through this with much greater haste than they do a traditional investigation, because of those astronauts, cosmonauts, waiting up there on that space station.

BROWN: Kathleen -- thank you, Kathleen Koch, in Washington on the NASA investigation.

A couple of other items around the country and the far reaches of space: first, a baby picture of the universe, if you will. Scientists from NASA and Princeton University took a look with a new kind of space telescope. It works from measuring the radio waves that remain from the big bang. The farther into space you look, the farther back in time you go. This is the universe at 380,000. It's pushing 14 billion today.

Senator John Kerry has been diagnosed with prostate cancer. It was, his doctors say, caught early. Doctors for the Democratic presidential candidate say it has not spread and that surgery should take care of the problem. The senator is scheduled to have the operation tomorrow at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore.

And in a Brooklyn courtroom today, tough guy Steven Seagal said the mob tried to shake him down. He was called to testify in the racketeering of Peter Gotti, John's brother and one of the reputed members of New York's Gambino crime family. Prosecutors say the Gambinos demanded hundreds of thousands of dollars from Mr. Seagal after he had a falling-out with a business partner who allegedly had ties to the crime family.

Still to come on NEWSNIGHT, live from Kuwait, we'll journey to the Kuwaiti oil fields to see how they've recovered from the devastation of the first Gulf War.

And later, in segment seven, Roman Polanski's dilemma: Come to America for the Oscars and maybe get arrested.

From Kuwait, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: And next on NEWSNIGHT from Kuwait, we'll take you to Kuwaiti oil fields to the north, right up against the Iraqi border, to see how they've recovered from the devastation of the Gulf War.

This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: That 42 you see on the building behind us, it means 42 years since Kuwait became an independent country, independent from the British.

A few quick items from around the world now, starting in Baghdad: The pope's envoy arrived there today carrying a message for Saddam Hussein. He said it calls on Iraqi authorities to cooperate with the U.N. He went on to say the pope was trying to push the limit in pursuit of peace. And to that end, the pope plans to meet with Iraq's deputy prime minister, Tariq Aziz, at the Vatican on Friday.

And a strange and chilly news conference in Bali today: It featured a confession from one of suspects in the nightclub bombings that killed so many last fall. Ali Imron said he regrets what happened. And he went on to say that the bombings were strictly the work of a Muslim extremist group to which he belongs and that al Qaeda was not connected.

And the hajj came to a close in Saudi Arabia, but not without tragedy; 14 pilgrims were crushed to death during the ritual stoning in the village of Mina. No hajj is ever trouble-free. This is two million people crowded into very tight spaces. Two years ago, 35 people were trampled. In 1988, 180 died in a human stampede.

Here in Kuwait and around the world, memories fade over 12 years. And so some of you may not remember well just what the Iraqi soldiers did to Kuwait during their invasion and occupation. But, if you are here, you can't miss it. Some of the damage remains. And in many of the public buildings, there are pictures, a sickening reminder of the before and after, the senseless destruction caused by a rampaging and eventually humiliated Iraqi army.

And no place was the damage greater than in the oil fields of Kuwait. The worst fears of worldwide environmental disaster proved to be overblown, but the economic disaster was real.

In a moment, we'll hear from a firefighter who was there. But first, we'll take a look at what the Iraqis did on their own, then and now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN (voice-over): In the case of Kuwait, it really is all about the oil. Whether it's a drilling rig in the far north of the country, pipelines snaking across the desert, or a spigot turned loose in the south, oil is the lifeblood of Kuwait. Without it, this tiny country would have nothing, no economy at all. It's what the Iraqis coveted and tried to steal a dozen years ago and eventually what they tried to destroy as they fled.

Where you see pipes and pumps, Kuwaitis see their heart and soul.

SARAH AKBAR, PETROLEUM ENGINEER, KUWAITI OIL COMPANY: Those fields were very special, because, before that, for 10 years, I worked in those fields. So I know every well. And like people, every well has its own identity.

BROWN: Sarah Akbar is unique. She is the only woman to hold a senior position at the Kuwaiti Oil Company and she was on the front lines right there fighting fires when Saddam Hussein's army blew up more than 700 wells at the end of the first Gulf War.

AKBAR: The wells looked like small candles, just tiny little candles. And the Iraqis were actually blowing some more wells at the same time.

BROWN (on camera): This is where the Iraqis came in when they were invaded. And when it was clear they were being humiliated and defeated, this is how they got out. But before they left a decade ago, they did enormous damage to the Kuwaiti oil industry.

(voice-over): For all the damage and destruction the invading Iraqis caused, for all the buildings they destroyed, all the things they stole and ransacked, it was their attempt to destroy the oil wells that has left the deepest scars. The fires raged for months.

(on camera): You literally went well to well to well to see how bad it was.

AKBAR: Eighty-five percent of everything on the ground was damaged. Almost 85 percent of the wells were on fire, because you have high-pressure wells here. You have some gas wells. So, the destruction here was enormous.

BROWN (voice-over): Twelve years later, you can still see it. This is what's left of what petroleum engineers call a gathering station in the Kuwaiti desert, essentially the spoke of a wheel where oil from dozens of different wells is delivered.

And more than a decade after the fires were extinguished, engineers are still recovering oil spilled during the disaster. In a business where oil is measured in the millions of barrels, here they think of drips and drops.

KAHLIL AL-KHARGI, KUWAITI OIL COMPANY: Every day, sometimes 300 barrels to 100 barrels. It depends about the speciality of the oil.

BROWN: In the financial sense, Kuwait's oil industry has recovered. There are more wells pumping oil now and exports remain robust at around two million barrels day.

On the border with Iraq, where you can see the gas flares from the Iraqi oil wells just across the border, U.N. helicopters keep an eye on a fragile boundary. But talk for a while with Sarah Akbar and, in short order, you come to understand that putting out a fire, repairing a facility, drilling a new well, salvaging another barrel is not the same as healing a troubled soul.

(on camera): A decade later, a decade, 10 years, and it's still, whether it's the oil wells outside or something inside, it doesn't still feel normal?

AKBAR: No, it's not normal.

And the people, even from a psychological point of view, I don't think we feel normal yet. It's going to take some time to try to -- for those wounds to heal completely.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: And ahead on NEWSNIGHT: ready to be called up. We'll talk with Ronnie Roles, a top oil well firefighter who is on call just in case he's needed in Iraq.

From Kuwait, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: We were up in those towers yesterday.

There's enormous concern here in Kuwait and around the world that the Iraqis, if there is a war, will set fire to their own oil wells. And they are considerable. Ronnie Roles is in the business of putting out such fires. It is a tough and dangerous line of work. And he joins us tonight from Oklahoma City.

Good to have you with us.

Have you been in contact with the federal government to be on call should something happen?

RONNIE ROLES, PRESIDENT OF OPERATIONS, CUDD PRESSURE CONTROL: Yes, we've had communications with the federal government. And what they'd asked us to do is put together a proposal for them, just in case and whatever the Iraqis did blow the wells.

BROWN: If they blow the wells, how long would it take -- once the area is secure and safe, obviously, how long would it take for you and your team to get there? Can you move quickly?

ROLES: Yes. We proposed to them that we would move three teams and three crews within a matter of 48 hours.

BROWN: And how much work can three teams and three crews get done?

ROLES: Well, it takes a team per well. And so, three wells would all we'd be working on at any given time.

BROWN: Talk to me about how you go about this business. People just saw the incredible inferno that these oil fires create. How do you put them out?

ROLES: Most of the wells are put out with water.

There were a lot of ideas floating around when the Kuwait thing was going on of all different ways to put out wells. But 90 percent of the time, you will put them out with water.

BROWN: So, you just -- I'm not kidding here -- where does the water come from? We're in the middle of the desert. I was out there the other day. You would have to pump enormous quantities of water.

ROLES: Yes, that's true.

What we did back when we were fighting the fires in Kuwait, all the water was piped back up the flow line from the Gulf to each well. The pipelines were already there. So, all they had to do was get the water to the wells. We dug earth pits and filled the pits full of water. And we had plenty of water at the end of the operation.

BROWN: Are you generally able to save the well or is it sometimes necessary to, I guess, just to pour cement in and cap it?

ROLES: Normally, the goal is to save the well.

The customers have spent millions of dollars drilling these things. And the last thing you want to do is come in there and destroy what they've been seeking for. But, at times, it does. You have to drill relief wells and things like that. And that's what you end up doing, cementing some of the wells. BROWN: One of the dangers -- obviously, fire is a great danger. Is there a danger there of explosion? Are there concerns about what your men are inhaling? Tell me about the risks.

ROLES: Yes, all of those concerns.

The biggest concern comes once you've put the fire out, because you've got live oil and gas blowing everywhere. And if you have ground fires or any sort of ignition, then you can relight the well. And if people are in or around the well, then you can burn them up.

In Kuwait, we also had cluster bombs, some of our own bombs that was dropped, that we had to contend with, not a lot of it, but we did have to contend with it.

BROWN: In 20 seconds or so, what kind of a guy gets into this line of work?

ROLES: Oh, a lucky guy, I guess a guy blessed by the good lord. I figure that's why I'm here, no other reason. I was raised a farmer and ended up at the right place at the right time.

BROWN: Well, we hope you don't have to come over here. But, if you do, we wish you nothing but safety. It's a dangerous business you're in.

Ronnie, thank you very much -- Ronnie Roles in Oklahoma City.

ROLES: Thank you, Aaron.

BROWN: And ahead on NEWSNIGHT from Kuwait: an Oscar dilemma. Will the director Roman Polanski face arrest should he attend the Academy Awards?

From Kuwait, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: The city is starting to come alive for another day here.

Finally from us tonight, no one ever said being a great genius had any connection with being a great human being. History's littered with stories of legendary artists who were also world-class jerks, and worse.

Such is the case with Roman Polanski, someone whose powerful film about the Holocaust today won him an Oscar nomination and someone you wouldn't be comfortable leaving your young daughter alone with. It's just the latest drama in the life of this director whose wife, Sharon Tate, was murdered by the Manson family. Even in Hollywood, you could not make this stuff up.

Here's Beth Nissen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BETH NISSEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It is the latest plot twist in one of Hollywood's longest-running dramas.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the category of best achievement in directing, Roman Polanski for "The Pianist."

NISSEN: Roman Polanski was best known for his work on "Rosemary's Baby" and "Chinatown."

But Polanski is also a convicted felon and a fugitive. Almost 25 years ago, he was found guilty of having unlawful sex with a 13-year- old girl at the Los Angeles home of actor Jack Nicholson. Nicholson was away at the time. Before he could be sentenced, Polanski fled to France. He has lived there ever since.

LEAH ROZEN, FILM CRITIC, "PEOPLE": When he left the country, there was a lot of outrage. You know, how was he allowed to do that? And I think a lot of people felt, fine, let him go.

NISSEN: Now the question is, will Polanski come back to attend the Oscar awards telecast? If he does, he faces arrest. The Los Angeles district attorney's office today issued this statement.

"He is a convicted felon and he fled from the court. He is a fugitive from the court. This is a matter between Mr. Polanski and the court. And, at this point in time, we are not involved until Mr. Polanski returns to the country and faces sentencing in court."

The woman Polanski was convicted of having unlawful sex with in 1977 has said she does not object to his return, but others may not be so forgiving.

ROZEN: I don't think it's a particularly friendly climate for Polanski now, even though it has been 25 years. I don't think anyone is about to forget.

NISSEN: Polanski may try to work out a deal with the DA's office, although a 1997 deal attempt fizzled.

That leaves Polanski in the same position he was in, in 1979, when he was nominated for a best-director's Oscar for the film "Tess." He didn't risk a return to the Oscar's red carpet. He has until the awards telecast on March 23 to decide whether to risk it this year.

Beth Nissen, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: And that's our report for tonight. Those of you who were there at the beginning I suspect weren't so sure our voice was going to make it, but we did.

On this chilly morning in Kuwait, good to have you with us. We'll see you again tomorrow from here.

Until then, good night for all us at NEWSNIGHT.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





Bayh>


Aired February 11, 2003 - 22:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, HOST: Good evening again on a chilly Wednesday morning in Kuwait. Here is an odd truth, and an unexpected one at that. It is very likely that we feel safer here than many of you do back at home.
Now that is not to say that things here in Kuwait are some sort of paradise. We notice that they put shelter signs up in our hotel today. One of those signs of preparation just in case.

But from what we hear from the United States, the anxiety there among many of you is deep. This morning, the CIA director said an attack could come as early as this week, with chemicals or poisons or radioactive material. And in case you didn't catch the gravity of all of that, he added that this is the most specific threat they've seen.

And there are signs that you Americans are listening. There are some reports that hardware stores in the country are running out of duct tape. As someone at a Home Depot put it, "You wouldn't believe how much we've sold."

So we find this an odd set of circumstances. As we sit here, we know that should Iraq to do so, Saddam could lob one of his cheap little missiles into the heart of Kuwait City, that he could attack with chemical or biological weapons in an instant. We know that, and yet perhaps foolishly we believe he won't. But that's not how this thing is going to unfold.

On the other hand, we're less certain about attacks in the United States. Al Qaeda's hatred for the United States needs no more supporting evidence than September 11. That was plenty enough for us. And unlike the Iraqis, whose every move is seen by American spy satellites and every word captured by the NSA, al Qaeda looks around mostly unseen, mostly unnoticed, and from all that we can tell and from what the government says, still able to hit and hit hard.

Our friends every day send us notes here telling us to be safe. Our worries should be the other way around.

On to the news of date, which brought a new bin Laden tape. And so "The Whip" begins tonight with our national security correspondent David Ensor. David, a headline from you.

DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well it's a 16-minute audiotape, Aaron, full of hatred, and including a call to arms to Iraqi Muslims asking them to help fight the American infidels.

BROWN: David, thank you.

The reaction now from the Bush administration. Andrea Koppel at the State Department is covering that for us. Andrea, a headline.

ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, hours before the tape was broadcast, it was Secretary of State Powell who broke the news, looking to exploit the tape and Osama bin Laden's threats to bolster the U.S. case against Iraq.

BROWN: Andrea, thank you.

And finally in "The Whip" tonight, the latest on the investigation into the shuttle disaster. Kathleen Koch reporting that for us. Kathleen, a headline.

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, after airplane accidents they always release the very compelling control tower tapes. Well, today we heard the tapes from mission control the day that Columbia fell to Earth and how NASA personnel never lost their composure, even as they lost hope -- Aaron.

BROWN: Kathleen, thank you. Back to all of you in a moment.

Also coming up on NEWSNIGHT for this 11th day of February, the voice, the message and the threat to the west. We'll have more on the audiotape released today by Al-Jazeera with someone who knows the voice of Osama bin Laden well. CNN terror analyst Peter Bergen will join us.

The fires that were described with no exaggeration as hell on Earth. We'll look at the devastation caused when Iraq set Kuwait's oil fields on fire a decade ago, and the possibility that the region will see more fires if it comes to war.

And the Oscar drama that wasn't nominated today. The case of "The Fugitive" director starring Roman Polanski. That's "Segment 7" later in the hour. All of that in the hour ahead. We'll see how the voice holds up.

Here we go. Tonight in Washington, anti-aircraft batteries once again ring the city. They went up this afternoon. No specific reason for their deployment given, just part of the routine, we are told. That goes with being at a threat level orange. Which ought not lend the impression today that there was any lack of specifics out in Washington.

As we said at the top, there was strong testimony on Capitol Hill laying out what the intelligence community has gleaned about possible targets and timing of al Qaeda's next move. And framing it all, of course, that tape. So we begin our coverage with CNN's David Ensor.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ENSOR (voice-over): The tape, say U.S. officials, bears the trademark of Osama bin Laden, full of hatred for infidels. This time with a call for Iraqis to attack Americans using suicide bombers and to draw American troops into combat in Iraqi cities.

OSAMA BIN LADEN (through translator): Our brothers, the Mujahideen in Iraq, don't worry about America's lies about the powers and the military might. The smart bombs they talk about will do nothing when it comes to bunkers.

ENSOR: On the 16-minute tape, bin Laden addresses Muslims, especially those in Iraq. He tells them against America and its allies it is legitimate for Muslims to fight alongside Saddam Hussein. Bin Laden refers to the U.S. and its allies as the crusaders. He calls Saddam's Bathist Party the communists.

BIN LADEN (through translator): If the Muslims and the communists get together to fight the crusaders, that's OK.

ENSOR: Fight alongside Saddam, bin Laden tells Iraqi Muslims in effect. Though bin Laden suggests it will not matter if Saddam loses power.

PETER BERGEN, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: I don't see this as a sort of ringing endorsement of Saddam. I do see it as a call to arms to the Iraqi people.

ENSOR: On the tape, bin Laden boasts that he and his al Qaeda fighters managed to hold out for days in Tora Bora, Afghanistan, and then to escape because the U.S. sent bombs but no close-in troops. Iraqis, he said, could do the same.

BIN LADEN (through translator): The U.S. forces never dared attack our positions. This is the perfect proof for you how cowardly they are and how they make up stories about their bravery and their victory.

ENSOR: Intelligence analysts note that this tape is much clearer than the last one, which sounded like it might have been taped over a phone line. This time, bin Laden is recorded well, and officials say he also sounds more confident.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ENSOR: The tape's release is seen as ominous, although U.S. intelligence officials say bin Laden's embrace of the Iraqi cause may help convince some doubters that al Qaeda's and Iraqi's dictators are part of the same problem. That certainly is the hope of the Bush administration -- Aaron.

BROWN: Well, it seems to us, I guess, that you could read that a couple of different ways. You can also read it that, while he has affection and support for the Iraqi people, he has troubles with the Iraqi government.

ENSOR: Yes, and this tape is not unmitigated good news for the U.S. I mean, clearly, it may cause some to rally to bin Laden's side as well. So it's a very mixed picture and quite a worrisome development, no question.

BROWN: David, thank you. National security correspondent David Ensor in Washington.

Also in Washington with us is CNN's terrorism analyst, Peter Bergen. You saw him in David's piece a moment ago. Peter, let's start with this question of al Qaeda, bin Laden and Iraq. How ought we hear bin Laden's words in that regard?

BERGEN: Well, he only mentioned Saddam once, and it's hardly a glowing reference. He actually said, if Saddam disappears, it's not the end of the world. I mean he's clearly trying to incite the Iraqi people to rise up against a possible invasion by the western forces. But I think anybody who is convinced that there is a Saddam-al Qaeda connection will look to this tape as evidence of that. People who remain unconvinced will also find evidence for that stand.

BROWN: So there's a little bit of something for everybody. Who is the audience for this tape? Who is he trying to get to?

BERGEN: Well, the Iraqi people. But I think also people around the Middle East. I mean one of the things he says in the tape, Aaron, is that Middle Eastern regimes are too cooperative with the United States. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) He mentions Jordan, Morocco, Saudi Arabia, even throwing in Nigeria, which is an African country, obviously, for good measure, which he's never mentioned before. So he's looking to rise up the whole Uma (ph), the community of Muslim believers against the apparent invasion of Iraq, or the apparently imminent invasion of Iraq.

BROWN: Peter, let me go back to maybe what I should have asked you first here. When you first heard this tape or first read the transcript, what jumped into your mind first? You're someone who has sat with him, you know him, you have a great feel for him.

BERGEN: Well, the first thing that jumped into my mind was that it was him. And the second thing, you know, David's piece I think is correct. I mean this is a -- he sounds quite well. I mean the last tape we heard from him in October was only four minutes.

It did demonstrate, I think, that he was alive, because he referenced the attack in Indonesia on the Bali disco. But this tape is a much more -- you know, it's 16 minutes. It's focused, he sounds pretty lucid. We don't know exactly when it was made because obviously the potential of a war against Iraq has been going on for some time. But it struck me that this was a pretty confident performance by him.

BROWN: Does that tell us anything about the success to date of the war on al Qaeda?

BERGEN: Well the war on al Qaeda on some levels has been a big success in the sense that, since September 11, actually very few members of Americans have been killed by al Qaeda or its affiliates. In fact, probably no more than a dozen. Obviously each an individual tragedy, but nothing remotely on the scale of 9/11.

However, there is much business that is yet undone. I mean most of the top leadership of al Qaeda remains unaccounted for, and clearly they're back in business. Around the anniversary of 9/11, al Qaeda became reenergized, and we saw attacks on the disco in Indonesia. We saw an attack on an oil tanker in Yemen, the assassination of a U.S. diplomat in Kuwait, other attacks around the Middle East, attempts by this group to pull off attacks on U.S. warships in the Straits of Gibraltar.

So they definitely got reenergized within the past few weeks and past few months. A war in Iraq is going to be a moment for al Qaeda to really show itself. I think that al Qaeda will -- if it can't do something big (UNINTELLIGIBLE) to the war in Iraq, then we can sort of say, OK, they're out of business.

But it's quite clear from all the chatter we've -- U.S. officials are talking about, but also I've talked to some people who are familiar with al Qaeda's thinking, they are talking about an attack that would be fairly spectacular tied to the war in Iraq. Of course, you expect them to say that. However, that's what they're saying.

BROWN: Peter, thank you. Peter Bergen joining us in Washington with his view on this latest bin Laden tape.

More now on how the administration went about making the connection today between al Qaeda and Iraq. This is obviously a very important connection for the administration to make as it presses its case for a possible war with Iraq. It's an even more delicate thing outside the United States, where there is deep suspicion about the administration's motives.

The administration seems to be aware of the risks of overstating its case, but today at least chose to press ahead fairly hard. The effort began with the secretary of state, who first revealed the existence of this tape. So here again, CNN's Andrea Koppel.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL (voice-over): Without saying how he knew, Secretary of State Powell told U.S. senators a new message believed to be from Osama bin Laden would soon be broadcast on the Al-Jazeerza Arab satellite network.

COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: ... where, once again, he speaks to the people of Iraq and talks about their struggle and how he is in partnership with Iraq. This nexus between terrorist and states that are developing weapons of mass destruction can no longer be looked away from and ignored.

KOPPEL: And while Powell stopped short of explicitly accusing Saddam Hussein himself of being in cahoots with bin Laden, in a live interview with Al-Jazeera Tuesday, Powell's spokesman came close.

RICHARD BOUCHER, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: We're very careful about making the case on solid grounds, not overstating it. But this does confirm that bin Laden and Saddam Hussein seem to find common cause together.

KOPPEL: That cause, he said, a common hatred of the United States. A point underscored by the White House.

ARI FLEISCHER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: What the secretary has eluded to this morning gives further proof of the concerns that we have about Iraq and al Qaeda linking up.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL: Now privately, U.S. officials tell CNN they learned of the bin Laden tape and its contents only yesterday but weren't sure when Al-Jazeera would broadcast it. Nevertheless, officials decided to exploit the tape, Aaron, in order to reinforce Powell's presentation at the U.N. last week in which he laid out evidence of Saddam Hussein's alleged links to al Qaeda -- Aaron.

BROWN: I don't want to put too fine a point on this, but again, it does seem from here that you can read the tape a couple of different ways where this connection is concerned. It's one thing to be sympathetic to the plight of the Iraqi people, which clearly bin Laden is. It just seemed less clear to me that he was sympathetic to Saddam himself.

KOPPEL: That is a point that the administration privately will acknowledge. Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein have never been friends. They -- forget about respecting one another. Bin Laden views Saddam Hussein as a bad Muslim and many experts would say that Saddam Hussein would never give chemical or biological weapons to any other terrorists, including al Qaeda, knowing that would be pretty much putting an X on Baghdad for U.S. bombs to drop.

So the U.S. is clearly, Aaron, trying to seize upon a very narrow slice of this tape. They are trying to leave open the question in the minds of viewers around the world, is it possible that al Qaeda, that Saddam Hussein and the head of al Qaeda, are somehow or another trying to help one another out? What the U.S. cannot explain, however, is how or if Saddam Hussein has ever expressed any willingness to help al Qaeda, there clearly pointing out that al Qaeda is showing sympathy for the Iraqi people.

BROWN: Andrea, thank you. Andrea Koppel tonight.

Even without another bin Laden tape, if that's what this turns out to be -- it seems pretty clear it is -- there's already plenty out there to keep you awake at night and keep you concerned. Those missiles we mentioned around Washington, D.C. for one.

Also, new talk of what al Qaeda might be up to, where and when. That talk came from the heads of the FBI and the CIA. They went before the Senate Intelligence Committee today, and among the headlines, the FBI director, Robert Mueller, raising the specter of al Qaeda cells already inside the United States but not yet on law enforcement's radar screen. Here's CNN's Kelli Arena.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): AS the nation remains on high alert, intelligence chiefs offered a sobering assessment to Congress of the current al Qaeda threat and the possibility of an attack as early as this week.

GEORGE TENET, CIA DIRECTOR: It points to plots that could include the use of a radiological dispersal device, as well as poisons and chemicals. The intelligence is not idle chatter on the part of terrorists or their associates. It is the most specific we have seen.

ARENA: FBI Director Robert Mueller warned of hundreds of al Qaeda sympathizers in the United States and the possibility that undetected sleeper cells lay in wait to strike.

ROBERT MUELLER, FBI DIRECTOR: Our greatest threat is from al Qaeda cells in the United States that we have not yet been able to identify. Finding and rooting out al Qaeda members once they have entered the United States...

ARENA: From some Democrats, skepticism about Secretary Powell's assertion at the U.N. that there are ties between al Qaeda and the Iraqi government. The discussion focused on Abu Mussab al-Zarkawi (ph), the al Qaeda associate who the CIA says spent time in Baghdad. And whether intelligence suggests he and his associates are under the control of the Iraqi government.

SEN. CARL LEVIN (D), INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: You're saying that you don't know if they're under the support -- that they are under the control or direction?

TENET: Sir, what we've said is Zarkawi (ph) and this large number of operatives are in Baghdad. They say the environment is good. And it is inconceivable to us that the Iraqi intelligence service doesn't know that they live there or what they're doing.

ARENA: As for the threat Iraq itself poses, officials say Saddam Hussein will use weapons of mass destruction against the United States if there is a war.

TENET: One thing you have to remember is Saddam Hussein built a WMD program with inspectors living in his country for years. He understood how to acquire chemical and biological capabilities. He understood how to establish a clandestine procurement network. He understands how to cross borders.

ARENA (on camera): Despite that assessment, officials say current tensions with Baghdad are not a factor in determining the risk of another terror attack. They say al Qaeda is determined to strike regardless and will do so in its own timeframe. Kelli Arena, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: As we said, it's an odd set of circumstances that we feel somewhat safer here in Kuwait than many of you must feel back at home. Still ahead tonight on NEWSNIGHT, we'll talk with Senator Evan Bayh to get his take on the intelligence briefings that went on today on Capitol Hill. And of course the latest on the shuttle investigation, as NASA releases recordings of conversations between the astronauts and ground controllers. Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT from Kuwait.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: More now on what was said before the Senate Intelligence Committee. We're joined in Washington by a member of that committee, the Democratic senator from Indiana, Evan Bayh. Senator Bayh, it's good to you have with us today.

Let me get this one out of the way first, because there are a fairly good number of people in the United States strongly opposed to the war who see this elevated terror threat that went into effect last Friday as just part of a propaganda campaign by the administration to garner support. Deal with that question, then we'll deal with today.

SEN. EVAN BAYH (D), INDIANA: Well, Aaron, I can understand why some people would be opposed to taking action at this time in Iraq, but I can tell that you it is not a part of any sort of ploy to generate public sport. It's a confluence of factors.

You have the end of the Hajj coinciding with the bin Laden tape, coinciding with possible military action. Also coinciding with the kind of traffic that we're picking up now that's more specific in terms of a possible geographic locations for attacks, times for attacks, methods for attacks. Aaron, you put all that together and it just leads to the kind of heightened sense of warning that has led to increasing the alert in the past.

BROWN: What if anything does this tell us about the success to date of the war on terror and the war on al Qaeda?

BAYH: Well, as your previous expert indicated, there have not been large scale attacks since 9/11, thank goodness. The fact that bin Laden is communicating from some remote cave in hiding is also an indication, although we've not either apprehended him or killed him, which is disappointing. It indicates that he's still on the run. So there's good news and bad news.

The bad news, of course, is that we're still under a threat. They're out there, Aaron. They're very determined and they're adaptable. They see what our reactions are, they change their pattern of behavior correspondingly. That's why their threat is so difficult to contain entirely.

BROWN: What did you hear -- was there a moment in the hearing today that will in a sense keep you up tonight? Was there one specific moment that you can point to as troubling?

BAYH: Well, a couple. You had George Tenet indicate that an attack could come as soon as this week if in fact there is an attack. And then you had the FBI director indicate that there are possibly several hundred radical Islamists in the country who are involved in raising funds and possibly providing support for al Qaeda cells of which we're unaware.

So you combine those two things and it's a troubling situation, Aaron. But I would hasten to add to your viewers as well, we've had alerts in the past, thank god nothing's happened. We're being much more proactive in trying to seek out those who would do us harm and prevent that. So, again, it's a good news-bad news situation. Unfortunately it's a fact of life we're just going to have to learn to live with.

BROWN: Explain something to me. How is it that we can suspect that there are some al Qaeda operatives or radical Islamists in the country that they're raising money -- we know that, at least according to the FBI director -- and yet we don't know who they are and where they are and we can't keep track of them? How can both things be true?

BAYH: Well, it is true that we know of some of them and we can track some of them. But by definition, Aaron, you don't know what you don't know. There may be others out there that we're unaware of and have not been able to trace yet. That's the real risk.

And so we're following up on the different leads as rapidly as we can. But they've been here a long time, they've been at this awhile. As we learned following 9/11, they can be fairly sophisticated. And so there's a possibility of some elements being in this country that we are simply unaware of at this time. That's why vigilance is important.

BROWN: Senator, I think we all long for the day when we can exhale again. Thank you, Senator Evan Bayh, the Democratic senator from Indiana tonight.

Coming up on NEWSNIGHT here, we'll update the shuttle investigation. NASA today releasing audiotapes of conversations with the astronauts. We'll have that story in a moment, as NEWSNIGHT continues from Kuwait on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: We said the other night shortly after the shuttle tragedy that the three men in the orbiting space station, the international space station, must surely feel like the loneliest men in the universe. Not only were they having to deal with the trauma of the disaster, the death of good friends, they were for now at least somewhat stranded.

Today we heard from the astronauts in the space station saying, one, "My first reaction to the shuttle tragedy was pure shock. I was numb. It was hard to believe that what we were experiencing was really happening."

After listening to some of the tapes today released by NASA, we can imagine a similar feeling among some of the folks at mission control that morning. The gradual, unthinkable realization that a routine landing was turning out to be anything but. Once again, here's CNN's Kathleen Koch.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) KOCH (voice-over): The first indication of trouble came just five minute before the shuttle disintegrated. A NASA engineer reports sensors on the left wing going out.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: FYI, I have just lost four separate temperature transducers on the left side of the vehicle.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

KOCH: In the 30 seconds before Columbia's final transmission, NASA calmly notes more problems.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We just lost tire pressure on left outboard and left inboard, both tires.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And Columbia, Houston, we see your tire pressure messages. And we did not copy your last...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is it instrumentation, Max?

(CROSSTALK)

(END AUDIO CLIP)

KOCH: Mission control thinks Columbia has plunged into the brief period where communication sometimes drops out, but too many seconds tick by.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You were expecting a little bit of ratty com, but not this long?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's correct, flight. I expected it to be a little bit intermittent. And this is pretty solid right here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOCH: Houston, in vain, tries backup radio frequencies to reach the shuttle.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Columbia, Houston, UHF com check. Columbia, Houston, UHF com check.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

KOCH: Minutes later, reality sets in.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lock the doors. Copy.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

KOCH: Mission control locks the doors and orders flight controllers to save all data in their workspaces.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's for your work stations logs, display printouts. There's a whole list of data collection items that we need to make sure we log through.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

KOCH: Anxious to sift through that data: the new Columbia accident investigation board. At its first press conference, it said it would be searching for the truth, not pointing fingers.

RET. ADM. HAROLD GEHMAN, U.S. NAVY: We want to find the causes of this, not the guilty parties.

KOCH: As the first truckloads of shuttle debris headed for Kennedy Space Center in Florida, the board says, so far, no shuttle parts have been found West of Fort Worth, Texas. But it insists the search in Western states will continue because it is possible something, perhaps key evidence, is out there.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOCH: Meanwhile, the board is ordering thermal tests to check the heat resistance of shuttle wings and their protective tiles. And NASA will be putting a mock-up shuttle wing in a high-speed wind tunnel to see just how different patterns of damage to the tiles or to that very critical leading edge of the wing affects the shuttle's temperature and stability -- Aaron.

BROWN: A week ago, Kathleen, when we were in Houston, it seemed like this investigation was moving at a very rapid clip. Now the reverse seems true, that it really is back to square one.

KOCH: Well, Aaron, this board said when they took the investigation that it would really become more like a National Transportation Safety Board investigation. And that's where you get basically just the facts, ma'am. They will not be interpreting. They will not be giving you their pet theory of the day.

And they are, though, going to try to work through this with much greater haste than they do a traditional investigation, because of those astronauts, cosmonauts, waiting up there on that space station.

BROWN: Kathleen -- thank you, Kathleen Koch, in Washington on the NASA investigation.

A couple of other items around the country and the far reaches of space: first, a baby picture of the universe, if you will. Scientists from NASA and Princeton University took a look with a new kind of space telescope. It works from measuring the radio waves that remain from the big bang. The farther into space you look, the farther back in time you go. This is the universe at 380,000. It's pushing 14 billion today.

Senator John Kerry has been diagnosed with prostate cancer. It was, his doctors say, caught early. Doctors for the Democratic presidential candidate say it has not spread and that surgery should take care of the problem. The senator is scheduled to have the operation tomorrow at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore.

And in a Brooklyn courtroom today, tough guy Steven Seagal said the mob tried to shake him down. He was called to testify in the racketeering of Peter Gotti, John's brother and one of the reputed members of New York's Gambino crime family. Prosecutors say the Gambinos demanded hundreds of thousands of dollars from Mr. Seagal after he had a falling-out with a business partner who allegedly had ties to the crime family.

Still to come on NEWSNIGHT, live from Kuwait, we'll journey to the Kuwaiti oil fields to see how they've recovered from the devastation of the first Gulf War.

And later, in segment seven, Roman Polanski's dilemma: Come to America for the Oscars and maybe get arrested.

From Kuwait, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: And next on NEWSNIGHT from Kuwait, we'll take you to Kuwaiti oil fields to the north, right up against the Iraqi border, to see how they've recovered from the devastation of the Gulf War.

This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: That 42 you see on the building behind us, it means 42 years since Kuwait became an independent country, independent from the British.

A few quick items from around the world now, starting in Baghdad: The pope's envoy arrived there today carrying a message for Saddam Hussein. He said it calls on Iraqi authorities to cooperate with the U.N. He went on to say the pope was trying to push the limit in pursuit of peace. And to that end, the pope plans to meet with Iraq's deputy prime minister, Tariq Aziz, at the Vatican on Friday.

And a strange and chilly news conference in Bali today: It featured a confession from one of suspects in the nightclub bombings that killed so many last fall. Ali Imron said he regrets what happened. And he went on to say that the bombings were strictly the work of a Muslim extremist group to which he belongs and that al Qaeda was not connected.

And the hajj came to a close in Saudi Arabia, but not without tragedy; 14 pilgrims were crushed to death during the ritual stoning in the village of Mina. No hajj is ever trouble-free. This is two million people crowded into very tight spaces. Two years ago, 35 people were trampled. In 1988, 180 died in a human stampede.

Here in Kuwait and around the world, memories fade over 12 years. And so some of you may not remember well just what the Iraqi soldiers did to Kuwait during their invasion and occupation. But, if you are here, you can't miss it. Some of the damage remains. And in many of the public buildings, there are pictures, a sickening reminder of the before and after, the senseless destruction caused by a rampaging and eventually humiliated Iraqi army.

And no place was the damage greater than in the oil fields of Kuwait. The worst fears of worldwide environmental disaster proved to be overblown, but the economic disaster was real.

In a moment, we'll hear from a firefighter who was there. But first, we'll take a look at what the Iraqis did on their own, then and now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN (voice-over): In the case of Kuwait, it really is all about the oil. Whether it's a drilling rig in the far north of the country, pipelines snaking across the desert, or a spigot turned loose in the south, oil is the lifeblood of Kuwait. Without it, this tiny country would have nothing, no economy at all. It's what the Iraqis coveted and tried to steal a dozen years ago and eventually what they tried to destroy as they fled.

Where you see pipes and pumps, Kuwaitis see their heart and soul.

SARAH AKBAR, PETROLEUM ENGINEER, KUWAITI OIL COMPANY: Those fields were very special, because, before that, for 10 years, I worked in those fields. So I know every well. And like people, every well has its own identity.

BROWN: Sarah Akbar is unique. She is the only woman to hold a senior position at the Kuwaiti Oil Company and she was on the front lines right there fighting fires when Saddam Hussein's army blew up more than 700 wells at the end of the first Gulf War.

AKBAR: The wells looked like small candles, just tiny little candles. And the Iraqis were actually blowing some more wells at the same time.

BROWN (on camera): This is where the Iraqis came in when they were invaded. And when it was clear they were being humiliated and defeated, this is how they got out. But before they left a decade ago, they did enormous damage to the Kuwaiti oil industry.

(voice-over): For all the damage and destruction the invading Iraqis caused, for all the buildings they destroyed, all the things they stole and ransacked, it was their attempt to destroy the oil wells that has left the deepest scars. The fires raged for months.

(on camera): You literally went well to well to well to see how bad it was.

AKBAR: Eighty-five percent of everything on the ground was damaged. Almost 85 percent of the wells were on fire, because you have high-pressure wells here. You have some gas wells. So, the destruction here was enormous.

BROWN (voice-over): Twelve years later, you can still see it. This is what's left of what petroleum engineers call a gathering station in the Kuwaiti desert, essentially the spoke of a wheel where oil from dozens of different wells is delivered.

And more than a decade after the fires were extinguished, engineers are still recovering oil spilled during the disaster. In a business where oil is measured in the millions of barrels, here they think of drips and drops.

KAHLIL AL-KHARGI, KUWAITI OIL COMPANY: Every day, sometimes 300 barrels to 100 barrels. It depends about the speciality of the oil.

BROWN: In the financial sense, Kuwait's oil industry has recovered. There are more wells pumping oil now and exports remain robust at around two million barrels day.

On the border with Iraq, where you can see the gas flares from the Iraqi oil wells just across the border, U.N. helicopters keep an eye on a fragile boundary. But talk for a while with Sarah Akbar and, in short order, you come to understand that putting out a fire, repairing a facility, drilling a new well, salvaging another barrel is not the same as healing a troubled soul.

(on camera): A decade later, a decade, 10 years, and it's still, whether it's the oil wells outside or something inside, it doesn't still feel normal?

AKBAR: No, it's not normal.

And the people, even from a psychological point of view, I don't think we feel normal yet. It's going to take some time to try to -- for those wounds to heal completely.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: And ahead on NEWSNIGHT: ready to be called up. We'll talk with Ronnie Roles, a top oil well firefighter who is on call just in case he's needed in Iraq.

From Kuwait, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: We were up in those towers yesterday.

There's enormous concern here in Kuwait and around the world that the Iraqis, if there is a war, will set fire to their own oil wells. And they are considerable. Ronnie Roles is in the business of putting out such fires. It is a tough and dangerous line of work. And he joins us tonight from Oklahoma City.

Good to have you with us.

Have you been in contact with the federal government to be on call should something happen?

RONNIE ROLES, PRESIDENT OF OPERATIONS, CUDD PRESSURE CONTROL: Yes, we've had communications with the federal government. And what they'd asked us to do is put together a proposal for them, just in case and whatever the Iraqis did blow the wells.

BROWN: If they blow the wells, how long would it take -- once the area is secure and safe, obviously, how long would it take for you and your team to get there? Can you move quickly?

ROLES: Yes. We proposed to them that we would move three teams and three crews within a matter of 48 hours.

BROWN: And how much work can three teams and three crews get done?

ROLES: Well, it takes a team per well. And so, three wells would all we'd be working on at any given time.

BROWN: Talk to me about how you go about this business. People just saw the incredible inferno that these oil fires create. How do you put them out?

ROLES: Most of the wells are put out with water.

There were a lot of ideas floating around when the Kuwait thing was going on of all different ways to put out wells. But 90 percent of the time, you will put them out with water.

BROWN: So, you just -- I'm not kidding here -- where does the water come from? We're in the middle of the desert. I was out there the other day. You would have to pump enormous quantities of water.

ROLES: Yes, that's true.

What we did back when we were fighting the fires in Kuwait, all the water was piped back up the flow line from the Gulf to each well. The pipelines were already there. So, all they had to do was get the water to the wells. We dug earth pits and filled the pits full of water. And we had plenty of water at the end of the operation.

BROWN: Are you generally able to save the well or is it sometimes necessary to, I guess, just to pour cement in and cap it?

ROLES: Normally, the goal is to save the well.

The customers have spent millions of dollars drilling these things. And the last thing you want to do is come in there and destroy what they've been seeking for. But, at times, it does. You have to drill relief wells and things like that. And that's what you end up doing, cementing some of the wells. BROWN: One of the dangers -- obviously, fire is a great danger. Is there a danger there of explosion? Are there concerns about what your men are inhaling? Tell me about the risks.

ROLES: Yes, all of those concerns.

The biggest concern comes once you've put the fire out, because you've got live oil and gas blowing everywhere. And if you have ground fires or any sort of ignition, then you can relight the well. And if people are in or around the well, then you can burn them up.

In Kuwait, we also had cluster bombs, some of our own bombs that was dropped, that we had to contend with, not a lot of it, but we did have to contend with it.

BROWN: In 20 seconds or so, what kind of a guy gets into this line of work?

ROLES: Oh, a lucky guy, I guess a guy blessed by the good lord. I figure that's why I'm here, no other reason. I was raised a farmer and ended up at the right place at the right time.

BROWN: Well, we hope you don't have to come over here. But, if you do, we wish you nothing but safety. It's a dangerous business you're in.

Ronnie, thank you very much -- Ronnie Roles in Oklahoma City.

ROLES: Thank you, Aaron.

BROWN: And ahead on NEWSNIGHT from Kuwait: an Oscar dilemma. Will the director Roman Polanski face arrest should he attend the Academy Awards?

From Kuwait, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: The city is starting to come alive for another day here.

Finally from us tonight, no one ever said being a great genius had any connection with being a great human being. History's littered with stories of legendary artists who were also world-class jerks, and worse.

Such is the case with Roman Polanski, someone whose powerful film about the Holocaust today won him an Oscar nomination and someone you wouldn't be comfortable leaving your young daughter alone with. It's just the latest drama in the life of this director whose wife, Sharon Tate, was murdered by the Manson family. Even in Hollywood, you could not make this stuff up.

Here's Beth Nissen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BETH NISSEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It is the latest plot twist in one of Hollywood's longest-running dramas.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the category of best achievement in directing, Roman Polanski for "The Pianist."

NISSEN: Roman Polanski was best known for his work on "Rosemary's Baby" and "Chinatown."

But Polanski is also a convicted felon and a fugitive. Almost 25 years ago, he was found guilty of having unlawful sex with a 13-year- old girl at the Los Angeles home of actor Jack Nicholson. Nicholson was away at the time. Before he could be sentenced, Polanski fled to France. He has lived there ever since.

LEAH ROZEN, FILM CRITIC, "PEOPLE": When he left the country, there was a lot of outrage. You know, how was he allowed to do that? And I think a lot of people felt, fine, let him go.

NISSEN: Now the question is, will Polanski come back to attend the Oscar awards telecast? If he does, he faces arrest. The Los Angeles district attorney's office today issued this statement.

"He is a convicted felon and he fled from the court. He is a fugitive from the court. This is a matter between Mr. Polanski and the court. And, at this point in time, we are not involved until Mr. Polanski returns to the country and faces sentencing in court."

The woman Polanski was convicted of having unlawful sex with in 1977 has said she does not object to his return, but others may not be so forgiving.

ROZEN: I don't think it's a particularly friendly climate for Polanski now, even though it has been 25 years. I don't think anyone is about to forget.

NISSEN: Polanski may try to work out a deal with the DA's office, although a 1997 deal attempt fizzled.

That leaves Polanski in the same position he was in, in 1979, when he was nominated for a best-director's Oscar for the film "Tess." He didn't risk a return to the Oscar's red carpet. He has until the awards telecast on March 23 to decide whether to risk it this year.

Beth Nissen, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: And that's our report for tonight. Those of you who were there at the beginning I suspect weren't so sure our voice was going to make it, but we did.

On this chilly morning in Kuwait, good to have you with us. We'll see you again tomorrow from here.

Until then, good night for all us at NEWSNIGHT.

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