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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown

CIA: North Korea Could Strike U.S. West Coast With Missile

Aired February 12, 2003 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


AARON BROWN, HOST: Good evening again, everyone. Sitting here in the safety of Kuwait, and how weird does that sound? I find myself thinking back, way back. Like the 1950s and early '60s.
In our small Minnesota town we would do nuclear raid drills. In the case of a nuclear attack, we were to crawl under our desks. And then when (UNINTELLIGIBLE) told us it was OK, we were to line up single file, no talking please, children, and file into someplace they said was a shelter.

Now I wasn't the smartest kid on the block then or now, but I had seen pictures of Hiroshima and it just didn't seem to me that my cheap little desk at Alice Smith (ph) Elementary School was exactly the safest place to be should the big one hit Hopkins. This comes to mind, of course, because of the e-mails I've been receiving from friends and family since I arrived here.

I think I have a pretty calm group around me. OK, my mom can be a little nutsy sometimes. But, hey, she's a mom. And I find myself stunned by the anxiety of this moment. I don't know if this is so in Omaha or Waco, but it sure seems true from the notes I'm getting from friends in New York and on the East Coast.

The first time I remember using the phrase "the new normal" was on the afternoon of September 11 a year ago. This, my friends, is the new normal. It's not just long lines at airports. It's about anxiety. Not constant anxiety exactly, but anxiety that lives much closer to the surface than ever before, or at least since the darkest days of the Cold War. And one other thing about the new normal, it stinks.

On to the news of the day, and none of it will make you breathe any easier. We start out with David Ensor with the latest on the threats involving al Qaeda and North Korea, just to name a few.

David, a headline, please.

DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, the thing is that, although the Central Intelligence Agency has said in the past and reminded us of that today that they had already told us in reports that the North Koreans had a missile that could hit the West Coast, somehow hearing George Tenet, the CIA director, saying that in a hearing room tonight really brought it home. The North Koreans have a missile, and they have a nuclear weapon that could hit the West Coast. That bad news was on top of information from Tenet about additional nuclear efforts being undertaken by Libya, by Iran. And of course there's the bin Laden tape. And Tenet says that one worries him, too.

BROWN: David, back to you at the top for the rest of the story there.

A different story about terror. A controversy over the source of a deadly toxin found in Britain late last year. Andrea Koppel has been working that from her post at the State Department.

Andrea, a headline please.

ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, for the second day in a row, Secretary of State Powell suggested a link between terrorist groups like al Qaeda and the head of the Iraqi regime, Saddam Hussein. Only this time, Powell's proof wasn't an audiotape but rather it was a toxic chemical called ricin.

BROWN: Andrea, thank you.

And on to the terror threat level in the United States. What the FBI is telling local law enforcement agencies. Kelli Arena, as always, covering that for us.

So Kelli, a headline from you.

KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, the FBI says that al Qaeda and affiliated groups continue to enhance their capabilities to conduct chemical, biological and radiological attacks. And the FBI also says nuclear power plants and industrial chemical plants are viable targets.

BROWN: Kelly, thank you. Back to you and the rest shortly.

Also coming up tonight, as a new day dawns here in Kuwait, the 12th of February where you are, the rush to protect against terror. For many Americans, that means the rush to the hardware store. But will the handyman approach really make us safer, or does it just make us feel safer?

Also tonight, the investigation into the Shuttle Columbia disaster. Miles O'Brien looks at the hearings that began today in Congress where the head of NASA faced hours of difficult questions.

And we end it all tonight with Beth Nissen and a time-honored American tradition. When things get scary, first you duck and then you cover. Duck and cover has got a bit of an update for the new century. And that's "Segment 7" tonight.

All of that in the hour ahead. We've got a lot to get through, any of which could be the lead on any given day. Indeed, it was a bit hard for us to decide how to lead the program today, what the most important story of the day was. We settled on North Korea. With the United States already on high alert and Americans distinctly on edge, this was yet another jolt to the national system. The revelation today, the public revelation today that North Korea might be capable of lobbing a missile at the West Coast, literally bringing another threat home. Our coverage begins with CNN's Wolf Blitzer.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Two years ago, the Central Intelligence Agency concluded North Korea had long-range ballistic missiles probably capable of reaching Hawaii and Alaska, and perhaps even the West Coast of the United States. Now, in an ominous public warning delivered during testimony before the Senate Intelligence Committee, CIA Director George Tenet has gone public with his fears, made worse by mounting concern the North Koreans could tip those missiles with nuclear warheads.

SEN. EVAN BAYH (D-IN), INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: They fired missiles over Japan. What is the likelihood that they currently have a missile capable of hitting the West Coast of the United States?

GEORGE TENET, CIA DIRECTOR: I think the declassified answer is, yes, they can do that.

BLITZER: Vice Admiral Loel Jacobi (ph) the director of the Pentagon's Defense Intelligence Agency, confirmed North Korea has a three-stage intercontinental missile, but added it has not yet been tested. When it comes to North Korea's nuclear program, Tenet was blunt.

TENET: I think we've unclassified the fact that they probably have one or two plutonium-based devices today.

BLITZER: And U.S. officials fear the North Korean regime of Kim Jong Il is fully capable of building many more rather quickly. Their gloomy assessment came just as the International Atomic Energy Agency in Vienna, Austria recommended that the U.N. Security Council consider action against North Korea for violating its international nonproliferation agreements.

MOHAMED ELBARADEI, IAEA DIRECTOR GENERAL: Unfortunately, all my repeated efforts in so many different ways to engage went in vain.

BLITZER: North Korea has already fired a preemptive verbal warning shot.

WENDY SHERMAN, THE ALBRIGHT GROUP: If the Security Council takes any punitive action, like economic sanctions, North Korea has said this is tantamount to going to war.

BLITZER (on camera): The White House continues to insist it still wants a diplomatic solution to the standoff with North Korea. Wolf Blitzer, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE) BROWN: CNN's David Ensor has been working his sources inside the national security community. That's his beat. So again we turn to David. David, what in particular I guess struck you about the Tenet testimony at the Senate today?

ENSOR: Well, Aaron, I'm afraid I've been covering him doing this for some years now, and this is by far the gloomiest prognosis, the darkest picture that he has yet painted. Not only do you have the very worrying situation with North Korea and the new evidence that Iran and Libya and North Korea are working towards nuclear weapons as fast as they can -- at least that is the view of some in the intelligence community -- you also have Iraq's cat and mouse game with the inspectors that appears to be headed towards war. And then of course there was the tape.

And that tape worries intelligence officials because, in the past, you think back to a tape that came out just before the Bali bombing, you think of a tape that just came out before those tourists were struck in Kenya. It's often been the case that there have been major terror attacks right after Osama bin Laden speaks -- Aaron.

BROWN: David, that's almost a grocery card list of concerns. Let me try to break it down a little bit. On North Korea, you work the intelligence beat. You knew this. Is this the first time a government -- an American government has said that North Korea could hit the United States with a missile? Have they said that publicly before?

ENSOR: They've said it on paper before. In December of 2001, an unclassified CIA study, which was reported on a little bit, but somehow in the atmosphere back then it just didn't get the attention it's getting now, did say that they had a missile that hadn't been tested fully yet, but that the CIA estimated might be able to reach not only Alaska and Hawaii but also the western states. So it was out there, but hearing the director say it is another thing.

BROWN: I agree. Even from here we found that part chilling. Now on the bin Laden tape, let me ask you this. There have been -- certainly since 9/11 -- a half a dozen bin Laden communications. What makes this communication any more worrisome than all of the others?

ENSOR: Well, they all worried the intelligence community once they ascertained that they thought they were genuine. And they do think this one is genuine. In many cases there have been attacks after tapes. Now at the same time, this tape appears to have been largely aimed at the Muslim world and specifically Muslims inside Iraq. That was what the message was aimed at.

So it's just not clear whether this was -- included in this was some kind of signal to sleeper cells or not. We're going to know that fairly soon, though. That's the view.

BROWN: Yes, I guess we are. David, thank you. David Ensor, who works national security agencies for us and is in New York tonight. Thank you. Some late developments on Iraq and the possibility of a war with Iraq. The State Department is warning against travel to a number of Persian Gulf countries, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Bahrain. We note comfortably that Kuwait is not on the list.

It is also advising nonessential diplomats and their families to leave those countries and will pay for their return home. This comes as Secretary of State Powell is trying to bolster the case against Iraq by drawing connections between Iraq and al Qaeda. Some call the effort unnecessary. There's enough evidence already, they say. Others are calling it unwise.

Here again, CNN's Andrea Koppel.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL (voice-over): For the second day in a row, Secretary of State Powell pushed the envelope. This time suggesting a link between Saddam Hussein and the production of chemical weapons in northern Iraq by terrorists linked to al Qaeda.

COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: The ricin that is bouncing around Europe now originated in Iraq. Now not a part of Iraq directly under Saddam Hussein's control, but his intelligence people know all about it.

KOPPEL: But in Europe, where the ricin was discovered during police raids in Britain late last year, intelligence sources expressed surprise at Powell's comments. These sources telling CNN the ricin was locally produced and of poor quality, significantly different if that al Qaeda has been known to use.

When asked, Powell's aides explained he was talking about the know how, not the ricin itself. And Tuesday, it was Powell who broke the news of a new audiotape believed to be from Osama bin Laden and suggested it was proof of a partnership between al Qaeda's leader and Saddam Hussein.

POWELL: Where, once again, he speaks to the people of Iraq and talks about their struggle.

KOPPEL: But while the tape encourages Muslims to help defend Baghdad against the United States, it only mentions the Iraqi leader in passing. Secretary Powell told congressmen the U.S. is certain cooperation exists.

POWELL: It's this nexus between weapons of mass destruction, states that are developing them, and cooperation with non-state actors, such as Osama bin Laden or some other nut case who might come along in due course.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL: And Powell said he plans to press his case in person with foreign ministers from Russia, China, France and Germany, all now opposed to war with Iraq, when he travels to the United Nations on Friday to listen to that U.N. weapons inspectors report. And when he gets there, Aaron, he said he plans to ask the ministers point blank how much more time they think they should give the inspectors or whether in fact all they want to do is give Iraq a pass and let it off the hook -- Aaron.

BROWN: Well, what I guess intrigues me most -- and there's a lot in your reporting today -- do we have any feel yet for what the Blix report is going to say on Friday? Because obviously that's going to set the tone for everything that follows.

KOPPEL: They've gotten a sense of that. And in fact, there was a senior State Department official, John Wolf (ph), who sat into the Blix briefing which was closed doors today at the United Nations for commission members, basically U.N. Security Council members, to listen to that preview. Condoleezza Rice was up there earlier in the week.

It sounds as if he's going to be tough, it's not going to be as long a report. But it isn't going to be everything that the U.S. wants it to be. That is, Aaron, the Blix report will not say that Iraq has not been cooperating and won't cooperate and that Blix is throwing in the towel. When Condoleezza Rice was up there earlier this week, she left in no uncertain terms the impression that the U.S. wants Blix to be as tough and as categorically clear as possible that Saddam Hussein is not cooperating -- Aaron.

BROWN: Andrea, a busy week ahead for you. Thank you for your work tonight. Andrea Koppel at the State Department.

And ahead on NEWSNIGHT for a Wednesday from Kuwait, Kelli Arena with the latest on the terror alert status. Some additional information coming out of the FBI today. And we'll report on what Americans are doing to prepare, and of course whether it's worth it.

Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: As we said earlier in the program, the men in charge of foreign and domestic intelligence spent another day testifying before Congress. Plenty of scary stuff there. Much of the story today revolves around them or the work of the agencies that they're running. But adding to their testimony today, the FBI put out its weekly bulletin to local authorities, and so throw that into the mix as well.

And for that, we turn once again to CNN's Kelli Arena, who joins us tonight from Washington. Kelli, good evening to you.

ARENA: Good evening, Aaron. Well let's start with what we heard from the director of the CIA. Once again, he offered up this assessment of intelligence, pointing to a major al Qaeda attack.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TENET: It points to plots timed to occur as early as the end of the Hajj, which occurs late this week. And it points to plots that could include the use of radiological dispersion devices, as well as poisons and chemicals.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ARENA: In its weekly terror bulletin, the FBI cautioned state and local partners about that threat. Part of the bulletin reads, "While these attacks are best suited for assassinations and small- scale dispersal, they can potentially cause hundreds of casualties and wide spread panic if used in multiple simultaneous attacks." Now the FBI also says, based on interviews of convicted terrorists and detainees, nuclear power plants and chemical plants remain viable targets.

Now there were some suggests included for law enforcement. Among them, to various security routines. To be aware that employees who work at certain facilities could be threats planted there by terrorist groups, and to be aware of all public information available pertaining to potential targets.

Aaron, I should point out that this FBI bulletin is not meant for public consumption but for law enforcement purposes. Back to you.

BROWN: Well, whether it's meant for public consumption or not, it's just been consumed by the public. So tell me, give me a little more context here. How different is it from last week's bulletin or the bulletin from the week before?

ARENA: Well, we have seen week to week sort of a ratcheting up of the concern level on the part of the FBI in getting information out. Last week, they skipped it, you remember, because there was the raising of the terror alert. And there was some concern, I am told by sources, that if they put something out in black and white ahead of an administration decision, that that might muddy the waters a bit. And so the bulletin did not even go out last week.

But I can tell you, Aaron, in conversation after conversation, the concern level is very high. FBI agents are ready, on their bodies with three days worth of clothes and personal items, medical prescriptions and so on in case of an emergency. As one agent put it today, he's been on this job for 30 years and he has never been more concerned about a possible attack as he is today.

BROWN: Kelli, thank you. That is about as sobering as it gets. Kelli Arena in Washington.

It is honestly quite strange for us to be here so far away and watch these warnings that Americans have been given and clearly are taking to heart. We know from the e-mails we see many of you are running to hardware stores with the government-provided list, going disaster shopping essentially. Tonight, the country looks likes one nation, indivisible, held together by duct tape. Here's CNN's Jeanne Meserve.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... batteries, radio, first aid kit, a hard hat, fluorescent tape. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A hard hat? That's the first time I heard that one.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sounds great. I'll take two.

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's a banner week for some hardware stores in New York and elsewhere, as Americans stock up for a possible terrorist attack.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think that in the long run this is going to be unnecessary, and I think it's really creating quite a panic among the people. We're selling a ton of duct tape though.

MESERVE: Shoppers explain their rush to the registers this way...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Better to be safe than sorry, right?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's right.

MESERVE: But will the terror item shopping list make you safer?

DR. JEFFREY ELTING, D.C. HOSPITAL ASSOCIATION: It could, but it depends on the environment, the agent, where you live, and a lot of other factors.

MESERVE: One recommendation made by the government is being viewed with particular skepticism.

JONATHAN TUCKER, U.S. INSTITUTE OF PEACE: I think the recommendations about duct tape and plastic sheeting are probably excessive.

MESERVE: And some will tell you ineffective. Sealing windows and doors will be little help in a biological or radiological incident, but could provide some protection in certain chemical scenarios.

SEN. TOM DASCHLE (D-SD), MINORITY LEADER: This is not an adequate response to the seriousness and the extraordinary difficulties that our country is confronting as we consider what repercussions could come from these attacks.

MESERVE: The most appropriate response some experts say would be to better prepare and equip the nation's first responders. But Congress hasn't approved money for that. So they say use the good information about preparedness. Have a family communications plan, three days of food and water, a battery operated radio, medicines, and some suggest you add a few special items.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have cookies if you have kids. You could be stuck in your house for a little while here. I might even have a little Johnny Walker in there or something.

MESERVE (on camera): It is impossible for anyone to give you detailed instructions about what to do ahead of a terrorist attack, because those instructions will vary depending on the type of weapon and kind of delivery system and where you are. But experts agree on this: the thing that will help you most in any emergency is a calm head and innovative approach. Jeanne Meserve, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: That's the new normal, my friends. When NEWSNIGHT continues, we'll talk with the topic of terror threats and our readiness for whatever happens. We'll be joined by Judith Miller and talk about those topics, Iraq, North Korea, a number of other things. We're glad to have her with us as NEWSNIGHT continues from Kuwait on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Judith Miller of "The New York Times" is with us tonight. As many of you know who have been with us for a while, Ms. Miller is an extraordinary reporter on areas of all things, nasty, chemical, biological and the like. She does that for "The Times." She's a published author as well, and she's a good friend of the program.

Judy, it's good to you have with us. I want to cover a lot of ground, but let me start with just a quick one. What do you make of all this that's been going on the last week now?

JUDITH MILLER, "THE NEW YORK TIMES" Well I find it ironic, Aaron, that you feel safer in Kuwait than we do here at home. I think New Yorkers and people in Washington have been particularly hard hit by this barrage of warnings that has been issued by the administration all of a sudden it seems. In fact, as David Ensor pointed out earlier, a lot of this information has been known earlier and yet it takes a kind of sense of timing, this awkward coincidence of the warnings, coupled with the threat of war, to really send people into an extreme state of anxiety.

BROWN: There are a lot of things we could talk about. I want to bring something up that will resonate particularly here in Kuwait. A piece you wrote, I guess it was in yesterday's "Times," about the administration's efforts to enlist Iraqi opposition support. And one man in particular that Kuwaitis are not going to be very happy about.

MILLER: Well, some Kuwaitis are, but most Kuwaitis are somewhat skeptical of (UNINTELLIGIBLE). This is one of the many Suni establishment figures to whom the administration is now belatedly reaching out. This is a man who, in 1961, said Kuwait didn't have a right to exist as a separate state. But he is now being courted by the administration much to the displeasure not only of some people in Kuwait, but also to other members of the Iraqi opposition.

I think that Dr. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) is a very distinguished individual. He did renounce that statement a long time ago, and publicly in 1999, but I think it shows you that the administration is somewhat late in getting its post-Saddam planning going. And there are still a lot of questions about which Iraqis they will rely on during the war and after the war and who is going to select those people. All of this is really very much in doubt now. BROWN: Back to questions of chemical and the like. Can you add anything to this discussion that Secretary Powell got into today about where the ricin came from and this connection, whether there's a connection, between Iraq and al Qaeda?

MILLER: Aaron, I think this is the weakest part of the administration's argument so far. At least in terms of what they've been willing to present publicly. What we've seen comes almost exclusively now from Secretary Powell. He talks about links between the ansar (ph) Islam radical Islamic faction in northern Iraq, which Saddam Hussein does not control, and al Qaeda.

But the British intelligence officers whom I've spoken to and the European counterterrorism officials say that the ricin, which has been the subject of enormous concern in England, appears to be homemade. It appears to be a very poor quality. Now, the people who made it might have learned those skills in that camp in Northern Iraq and they may have al Qaeda connections. But the Europeans are still much more skeptical of this than Secretary Powell.

BROWN: Judy, of all the people I know, you know the most about all of this. So, have you gone out and bought duct tape and plastic for your...

MILLER: Well, actually, Aaron, I bought duct tape a long time ago, because I was privileged, I might say, to be able to go to a place that had anthrax buried beneath the soil several years ago, a small island in the Aral Sea.

And I was told at the time that something I should do is put duct tape around my gloves and also on my boots. And I did that. And I have no reason to believe, based on the studies I've seen, that it might not be helpful in the event of a chemical or a biological attack. The problem is knowing when and if you've been attacked, particularly with a biological agent, where there isn't necessarily a big cloud or fumes or anything that could let ordinary people know that they're in danger.

BROWN: Judy, thanks. This is as odd a week as, honestly, I can recall in my lifetime. Really, it's...

MILLER: People are -- they are either panicked or they're skeptical. And I think the proper response should probably be somewhere in between.

BROWN: Thanks, Judy -- Judith Miller with us. And we're glad to have her.

Still ahead on NEWSNIGHT from Kuwait, we'll get to some of the other news of the day. There's a new phase in the shuttle investigation, as the head of NASA up on Capitol Hill. You knew that would happen. And, later, we'll try and put these terror alerts in some context, as we look back at an age when the annihilation of the planet, all of it, was what was feared.

We're in Kuwait. This is NEWSNIGHT. And you're watching CNN. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Next on NEWSNIGHT: the latest on the shuttle investigation and a worry that the problem is one of the shuttle's wheel wells, a problem that could spell catastrophe -- a short break, right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: And it's the dawn of a new day here in Kuwait.

A few stories from around the United States, beginning with President Bush trying to push his tax-cutting proposal: Mr. Bush spoke to a group of small investors today. He said the centerpiece of his plan, getting rid of the tax on dividends is -- quote -- "good economic policy for the short term and the long term." But at what cost?

Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan, testifying for a second time, second day on Capitol Hill, warned that budget deficits may well lead to higher interest rates, mortgage rates in particular. The White House plan would lead to record deficit in the current fiscal year and significant deficits in the years to come, war or no war.

The head of NASA, Sean O'Keefe, was on Capitol Hill today. And in talking about the Columbia disaster, he included a quote about the time when the oceans were the great expanse to be explored: "A ship in the harbor is safe, but that's not what ships are built for." That seems to sum up the challenge, doesn't it? Get to the bottom of what went wrong and get those other shuttles back where they belong, in space, which, of course, is far easier to say than to actually do.

The latest on the hearings now and the arrival of shuttle debris in Florida, too, from CNN's Miles O'Brien.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN SPACE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The pieces, 15,000 of them so far, are beginning to come together in a hangar beside the runway where Columbia should have ended her mission on February 1.

The investigative team has taped a grid system to the floor to place the twisted, charred remains into some semblance of their order on the intact orbiter. Investigators hope to see the smoking gun staring at them right on this floor. The accident board, headed by retired Admiral Harold Gehman, also arrived at the cape.

RET. ADM. HAROLD GEHMAN, U.S. NAVY: We will return multiple times, as we bore into our investigation. We'll be here two days. We're going to go on to Huntsville and then to New Orleans, getting back into Houston on Saturday night. And we will work on Sunday. We are going to be essentially working either seven-day weeks or six-day weeks from now on.

O'BRIEN: But even as the work went on in Florida, in Washington, lawmakers questioned the very credibility of the Gehman board, which was picked by NASA hours after Columbia disintegrated. Agency administrator Sean O'Keefe testified before a joint committee, which had some questions about the independence of the Columbia investigation.

SEN. PETE DOMENICI (R), NEW MEXICO: It seems to me that, in almost any circumstance of this type, an agency can't very effectively investigate itself. I feel there ought to be a presidential commission impaneled.

SEAN O'KEEFE, NASA ADMINISTRATOR: This is an independent group of folks who have no baggage to carry as it pertains to NASA biases.

O'BRIEN (on camera): After the hearing, O'Keefe issued a statement changing the charter of the independent board. The amendment makes it clear Admiral Gehman does not have to consult with NASA or seek its approval.

(voice-over): Meanwhile, NASA was once again explaining an e- mail from one of its own engineers. Bob Daugherty assessed the possible damage caused by the foam that hit the underside of Columbia's left wing. Two days before the shuttle's scheduled landing, he warned that, if there was serious damage to the landing gear door, "something could get screwed up enough to prevent deployment of the gear, and then you're in a world of hurt."

But, in the end, they shuttle team discounted such scenarios, concluding the foam damage was not severe and Columbia was not in peril.

O'KEEFE: During the 16-day STS-107 mission, we had no indication that would suggest a compromise to flight safety.

O'BRIEN: O'Keefe says the findings will be released as soon as the ink is dry. NASA hopes the board will finish its job in only 60 days.

Miles O'Brien, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, we'll go out in the field here in Kuwait. We'll meet an international group of soldiers -- some of these countries might surprise you -- who swing into action after a chemical, biological or nuclear attack.

And later: back to the good old days when all we had to fear was total annihilation.

From Kuwait, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Next on NEWSNIGHT: the soldiers you never want to see.

A short break and we continue from Kuwait. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: We talked at the top tonight about the new normal, something born of the attacks of September 11.

This new normal is not just an American thing. The attack on New York and Washington shocked the whole world. It made every nation feel more vulnerable to the worst from the worst. Out in the Kuwaiti desert, we saw firsthand how the world has responded. For all the disagreements with Europe these days, the French and the Germans on Iraq, there is one thing these countries do get, that they must prepare together and work together or they are likely to suffer together from some of the deadliest weapons mankind has ever seen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN (voice-over): If you see these guys coming, run for your lives. Well, perhaps it's more accurate to say, if you see these guys coming, it's too late to run for your lives, for these are international troops formed after 9/11 to deal with the worst of the worst, weapons of mass destruction.

CAPT. REGAN WILSON, U.S. AIR FORCE: This task force, in my mind, is a service to this region, to the Middle East, in the event that the unthinkable happens.

BROWN: With the latest in protective suits and the latest in heavy equipment -- these are called Fox vehicles -- military personnel from three nations have been combined into a joint task force with but one job: help everyone, soldiers and civilians alike, in the event of a nuclear, biological or chemical attack, a prospect that, here in Kuwait, is hardly farfetched.

LT. COL. MICHAEL OBERNEYER, GERMAN ARMY: We have to be prepared for the worst case.

BROWN (on camera): And this is a pretty bad case. Your preparation is in really bad stuff, if you will. The prospects of chemical or biological attacks, I think as much as anything, terrifies people.

OBERNEYER: Yes. We do a lot of planning with that, also with real chemical agents, for example.

BROWN (voice-over): In the middle of this giant American base in the Kuwaiti desert, German soldiers have joined with the Americans and with Czechs, this despite the German government's opposition to an Iraqi war.

Iraq has nothing to do with this. This is about terror, plain and simple. And so, despite the political maneuverings and the diplomatic fuss, should Iraq attack with weapons of mass destruction, Germans will deal with it alongside of Americans. On this, the two countries agree.

OBERNEYER: We clearly divide these two things. From a German point of view, we divide it into, on the one hand, Operation Enduring Freedom, and, on the other hand, the likely operation against Iraq. And from our point of view, the second one doesn't belong to the Operation Enduring Freedom.

BROWN: As in most things dangerous in the military, it is young lieutenants who get the duty on the front lines. Lieutenant Gregor Schmitz would be a point man in the event of a real attack, chemical or nuclear.

1ST LT. GREGOR SCHMITZ, GERMAN ARMY: Here we have a probe for radiation. And we can detect it with this probe from the outside.

BROWN: Everyone here, the men and, yes, the women in this unit, train virtually every day.

BRIG. GEN. CORNELL WILSON, CONSEQUENCE MANAGEMENT TASK FORCE: We just have to be a little nimble and lean forward in the foxhole to make sure we're prepared for whatever comes along.

BROWN (on camera): Lean forward in the foxhole, which is to say, be ready all the time to move.

WILSON: Yes. Yes.

BROWN (voice-over): If they're not in the desert putting their vehicles through their paces, they are fitting and refitting their protective suits.

In these days of modern warfare, there will be soldiers on the front lines, as always, but there will be these men and women right behind, different risks, to be sure, but hardly less dangerous.

(on camera): What are they walking into if it happens?

R. WILSON: Yes, Aaron, you have these units out in the desert. And so much of the focus is on them and on their maneuvers. And, yes, they are the front line, as it were. But if the unthinkable happens, if weapons of mass destruction are employed in this theater, then this unit is on the front lines of hell.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: The front lines of hell. And you certainly got that feeling. At the same time, there was something reassuring about all the work and the sophistication of the people involved in this.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta is here with us in Kuwait. He's has also been looking at how both soldiers and civilians will be kept healthy or safe, which might be a better word.

Doc, good to have you with us.

You've been out with troops. Let's start with them. Frontline troops, how prepared are they should the worst happen?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, they seem very well prepared, Aaron, there's no question, although I am struck by the fact that you have, on average, 19-, 20-year-olds who are learning some very important life-saving lessons and they're expected to learn that information very quickly.

The sort of way that they're learning this is through repetition, classes over and over again. Some of these instructors -- I actually sat in on these classes -- are using acronyms to try and drill this information into the head. And, lastly, they're using sheer stories of terror of exactly how bad these agents can be to try and get these students/soldiers interested and to get them to remember this information.

So, I think they're prepared both with their training as well as their equipment, which I think is also better than 12 years ago. At least the gas masks and the suits are better. So, I think they're coming along rather well, Aaron.

BROWN: Just one quick one, if you can. Then I want to talk about civilians a bit.

Part of the problem, it seems to me -- tell me if I'm wrong -- is that, to a certain extent, this has all been theoretical. Forces have not been subjected to this sort of thing. We can test and we can drill and we can teach, but we don't really know how people will respond.

GUPTA: Yes, you're absolutely right, Aaron.

And, certainly this training is not new. People have been training for chemical, biological, even nuclear war attacks for a very long time. But I think the level of training has gone up. But the one thing that -- you're exactly right -- is missing is, we don't exactly know how people are going to respond.

For example, they have nine seconds to put on their mask during the event of a chemical attack. If that mask hits the ground, it's contaminated. I was setting there surveying people as they were doing some of these drills and, certainly, people were very flustered by that, oftentimes dropping the masks. They haven't actually been subjected to it. And I think that's the critical element that's missing.

BROWN: We're just -- from where you and I are right now, in the heart of Kuwait, we're just an hour's drive from the border. The Iraqis clearly could launch and hit here. There is tremendous concern among the civilian population in Kuwait. Do you have any feel for how prepared the Kuwaiti government is in the event of a chemical or biological attack?

GUPTA: Well, we did do some chatting with some of the Kuwaiti officials and have talked to some of the folks.

A couple things: One is that they have sort of been down this road before. They haven't seen a chemical attack before, but they've thought about it before, a little over a decade ago. I don't know -- I would have to say that I don't think the infrastructure is really set up for Kuwaitis to do the very specific things necessary in the event of a chemical attack, scary, but true.

We're talking about some very specific things, getting these gas masks on within nine seconds, getting these suits on. These are things that are learned by rote, doing it over and over and over again, drills. And I haven't seen that going on here, amongst the civilians at least.

BROWN: Sanjay, thank you -- Dr. Sanjay Gupta, who is with us here in Kuwait tonight.

And still ahead on NEWSNIGHT, segment seven rounds it out: the question of whether we'd rather be back in the '50s, when we all had fear of a different sort.

From Kuwait, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: We end tonight where we began, with memories of another time and a different fear.

These are strange times, indeed, when the dullest of household items can take on almost mythical status: duct tape. OK, there's no cartoon superhero hero, Ducky the duct tape yet, but it's not so farfetched, is it? Remember, we used to have a turtle named Bert telling us how to survive a nuclear nightmare.

Here's CNN's Beth Nissen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BETH NISSEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Those of a certain age can still, after more than 40 years, sing the jingle.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (singing): Duck and cover, duck and cover.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NISSEN: Duck and cover, the government-sanctioned response in the 1950s to what was then seen as the greatest threat to the American public: the detonation of an atomic bomb.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: We must be ready every day, all the time, to do the right thing if the atomic bomb explodes: duck and cover.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NISSEN: Ducking under a picnic blanket didn't offer the slightest protection from an atomic blast, yet a generation of Americans did the drills. They were silly, but they made people feel better, feel like there was something they could do. BERNARD KERIK, FORMER POLICE COMMISSIONER, NEW YORK CITY: People are looking for leadership and direction. And I think, if they have it, there's a much lesser chance for panic to set in.

NISSEN: Now, in the face of new threats, bioterrorism, chemical weapons, dirty nukes, the public is being advised to, well, duct and cover, buy duct tape and plastic to cover windows and doors. That's a suggestion from homeland security and emergency management officials. Hardware stores across the country have reported a run this week on duct tape and plastic covering.

DR. VICTOR SIDEL, AUTHOR, "TERRORISM AND PUBLIC HEALTH": It probably doesn't do any harm. You spend some money, you give some business to local stores. Is it very likely that that will be helpful in the case of an undetermined, unpredicted attack? No, it's not very likely.

NISSEN: Experienced public safety authorities say officials owe answers, even vague, flimsy ones, to a worried public asking what to do about attacks government officials say are coming.

KERIK: It could be a little bit about letting people have control or let them know they're in control of their own environment. People want answers.

NISSEN: Others counter that vapid answers, unspecific warnings, only feed fierce, exaggerate risks.

SIDEL: Smallpox, anthrax, hemorrhagic fever are terrible things. There's no question about it. But one has to ask the question, as we live our lives, what are the chances of that happening to us compared to all of the other things that we can very well protect ourselves against? The main thing to do is to go about one's business, to understand that we live in a dangerous world, and to talk about the ways of making a less dangerous world.

NISSEN: A daunting challenge, indeed. One might be forgiven for wanting to just crawl under a bench or a desk or a bed and hide.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: Tony knows the bomb can explode any time of the year, day or night. Duck and cover.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NISSEN: Beth Nissen, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: And that's our report for tonight.

Tomorrow, we'll show you one of the great and old Kuwaiti traditions: camping, Kuwaiti style. We'll talk life, politics and the future. Join us, 10:00 Eastern.

Until then, good night for all of us at NEWSNIGHT.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





Missile>


Aired February 12, 2003 - 22:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, HOST: Good evening again, everyone. Sitting here in the safety of Kuwait, and how weird does that sound? I find myself thinking back, way back. Like the 1950s and early '60s.
In our small Minnesota town we would do nuclear raid drills. In the case of a nuclear attack, we were to crawl under our desks. And then when (UNINTELLIGIBLE) told us it was OK, we were to line up single file, no talking please, children, and file into someplace they said was a shelter.

Now I wasn't the smartest kid on the block then or now, but I had seen pictures of Hiroshima and it just didn't seem to me that my cheap little desk at Alice Smith (ph) Elementary School was exactly the safest place to be should the big one hit Hopkins. This comes to mind, of course, because of the e-mails I've been receiving from friends and family since I arrived here.

I think I have a pretty calm group around me. OK, my mom can be a little nutsy sometimes. But, hey, she's a mom. And I find myself stunned by the anxiety of this moment. I don't know if this is so in Omaha or Waco, but it sure seems true from the notes I'm getting from friends in New York and on the East Coast.

The first time I remember using the phrase "the new normal" was on the afternoon of September 11 a year ago. This, my friends, is the new normal. It's not just long lines at airports. It's about anxiety. Not constant anxiety exactly, but anxiety that lives much closer to the surface than ever before, or at least since the darkest days of the Cold War. And one other thing about the new normal, it stinks.

On to the news of the day, and none of it will make you breathe any easier. We start out with David Ensor with the latest on the threats involving al Qaeda and North Korea, just to name a few.

David, a headline, please.

DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, the thing is that, although the Central Intelligence Agency has said in the past and reminded us of that today that they had already told us in reports that the North Koreans had a missile that could hit the West Coast, somehow hearing George Tenet, the CIA director, saying that in a hearing room tonight really brought it home. The North Koreans have a missile, and they have a nuclear weapon that could hit the West Coast. That bad news was on top of information from Tenet about additional nuclear efforts being undertaken by Libya, by Iran. And of course there's the bin Laden tape. And Tenet says that one worries him, too.

BROWN: David, back to you at the top for the rest of the story there.

A different story about terror. A controversy over the source of a deadly toxin found in Britain late last year. Andrea Koppel has been working that from her post at the State Department.

Andrea, a headline please.

ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, for the second day in a row, Secretary of State Powell suggested a link between terrorist groups like al Qaeda and the head of the Iraqi regime, Saddam Hussein. Only this time, Powell's proof wasn't an audiotape but rather it was a toxic chemical called ricin.

BROWN: Andrea, thank you.

And on to the terror threat level in the United States. What the FBI is telling local law enforcement agencies. Kelli Arena, as always, covering that for us.

So Kelli, a headline from you.

KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, the FBI says that al Qaeda and affiliated groups continue to enhance their capabilities to conduct chemical, biological and radiological attacks. And the FBI also says nuclear power plants and industrial chemical plants are viable targets.

BROWN: Kelly, thank you. Back to you and the rest shortly.

Also coming up tonight, as a new day dawns here in Kuwait, the 12th of February where you are, the rush to protect against terror. For many Americans, that means the rush to the hardware store. But will the handyman approach really make us safer, or does it just make us feel safer?

Also tonight, the investigation into the Shuttle Columbia disaster. Miles O'Brien looks at the hearings that began today in Congress where the head of NASA faced hours of difficult questions.

And we end it all tonight with Beth Nissen and a time-honored American tradition. When things get scary, first you duck and then you cover. Duck and cover has got a bit of an update for the new century. And that's "Segment 7" tonight.

All of that in the hour ahead. We've got a lot to get through, any of which could be the lead on any given day. Indeed, it was a bit hard for us to decide how to lead the program today, what the most important story of the day was. We settled on North Korea. With the United States already on high alert and Americans distinctly on edge, this was yet another jolt to the national system. The revelation today, the public revelation today that North Korea might be capable of lobbing a missile at the West Coast, literally bringing another threat home. Our coverage begins with CNN's Wolf Blitzer.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Two years ago, the Central Intelligence Agency concluded North Korea had long-range ballistic missiles probably capable of reaching Hawaii and Alaska, and perhaps even the West Coast of the United States. Now, in an ominous public warning delivered during testimony before the Senate Intelligence Committee, CIA Director George Tenet has gone public with his fears, made worse by mounting concern the North Koreans could tip those missiles with nuclear warheads.

SEN. EVAN BAYH (D-IN), INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: They fired missiles over Japan. What is the likelihood that they currently have a missile capable of hitting the West Coast of the United States?

GEORGE TENET, CIA DIRECTOR: I think the declassified answer is, yes, they can do that.

BLITZER: Vice Admiral Loel Jacobi (ph) the director of the Pentagon's Defense Intelligence Agency, confirmed North Korea has a three-stage intercontinental missile, but added it has not yet been tested. When it comes to North Korea's nuclear program, Tenet was blunt.

TENET: I think we've unclassified the fact that they probably have one or two plutonium-based devices today.

BLITZER: And U.S. officials fear the North Korean regime of Kim Jong Il is fully capable of building many more rather quickly. Their gloomy assessment came just as the International Atomic Energy Agency in Vienna, Austria recommended that the U.N. Security Council consider action against North Korea for violating its international nonproliferation agreements.

MOHAMED ELBARADEI, IAEA DIRECTOR GENERAL: Unfortunately, all my repeated efforts in so many different ways to engage went in vain.

BLITZER: North Korea has already fired a preemptive verbal warning shot.

WENDY SHERMAN, THE ALBRIGHT GROUP: If the Security Council takes any punitive action, like economic sanctions, North Korea has said this is tantamount to going to war.

BLITZER (on camera): The White House continues to insist it still wants a diplomatic solution to the standoff with North Korea. Wolf Blitzer, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE) BROWN: CNN's David Ensor has been working his sources inside the national security community. That's his beat. So again we turn to David. David, what in particular I guess struck you about the Tenet testimony at the Senate today?

ENSOR: Well, Aaron, I'm afraid I've been covering him doing this for some years now, and this is by far the gloomiest prognosis, the darkest picture that he has yet painted. Not only do you have the very worrying situation with North Korea and the new evidence that Iran and Libya and North Korea are working towards nuclear weapons as fast as they can -- at least that is the view of some in the intelligence community -- you also have Iraq's cat and mouse game with the inspectors that appears to be headed towards war. And then of course there was the tape.

And that tape worries intelligence officials because, in the past, you think back to a tape that came out just before the Bali bombing, you think of a tape that just came out before those tourists were struck in Kenya. It's often been the case that there have been major terror attacks right after Osama bin Laden speaks -- Aaron.

BROWN: David, that's almost a grocery card list of concerns. Let me try to break it down a little bit. On North Korea, you work the intelligence beat. You knew this. Is this the first time a government -- an American government has said that North Korea could hit the United States with a missile? Have they said that publicly before?

ENSOR: They've said it on paper before. In December of 2001, an unclassified CIA study, which was reported on a little bit, but somehow in the atmosphere back then it just didn't get the attention it's getting now, did say that they had a missile that hadn't been tested fully yet, but that the CIA estimated might be able to reach not only Alaska and Hawaii but also the western states. So it was out there, but hearing the director say it is another thing.

BROWN: I agree. Even from here we found that part chilling. Now on the bin Laden tape, let me ask you this. There have been -- certainly since 9/11 -- a half a dozen bin Laden communications. What makes this communication any more worrisome than all of the others?

ENSOR: Well, they all worried the intelligence community once they ascertained that they thought they were genuine. And they do think this one is genuine. In many cases there have been attacks after tapes. Now at the same time, this tape appears to have been largely aimed at the Muslim world and specifically Muslims inside Iraq. That was what the message was aimed at.

So it's just not clear whether this was -- included in this was some kind of signal to sleeper cells or not. We're going to know that fairly soon, though. That's the view.

BROWN: Yes, I guess we are. David, thank you. David Ensor, who works national security agencies for us and is in New York tonight. Thank you. Some late developments on Iraq and the possibility of a war with Iraq. The State Department is warning against travel to a number of Persian Gulf countries, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Bahrain. We note comfortably that Kuwait is not on the list.

It is also advising nonessential diplomats and their families to leave those countries and will pay for their return home. This comes as Secretary of State Powell is trying to bolster the case against Iraq by drawing connections between Iraq and al Qaeda. Some call the effort unnecessary. There's enough evidence already, they say. Others are calling it unwise.

Here again, CNN's Andrea Koppel.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL (voice-over): For the second day in a row, Secretary of State Powell pushed the envelope. This time suggesting a link between Saddam Hussein and the production of chemical weapons in northern Iraq by terrorists linked to al Qaeda.

COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: The ricin that is bouncing around Europe now originated in Iraq. Now not a part of Iraq directly under Saddam Hussein's control, but his intelligence people know all about it.

KOPPEL: But in Europe, where the ricin was discovered during police raids in Britain late last year, intelligence sources expressed surprise at Powell's comments. These sources telling CNN the ricin was locally produced and of poor quality, significantly different if that al Qaeda has been known to use.

When asked, Powell's aides explained he was talking about the know how, not the ricin itself. And Tuesday, it was Powell who broke the news of a new audiotape believed to be from Osama bin Laden and suggested it was proof of a partnership between al Qaeda's leader and Saddam Hussein.

POWELL: Where, once again, he speaks to the people of Iraq and talks about their struggle.

KOPPEL: But while the tape encourages Muslims to help defend Baghdad against the United States, it only mentions the Iraqi leader in passing. Secretary Powell told congressmen the U.S. is certain cooperation exists.

POWELL: It's this nexus between weapons of mass destruction, states that are developing them, and cooperation with non-state actors, such as Osama bin Laden or some other nut case who might come along in due course.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL: And Powell said he plans to press his case in person with foreign ministers from Russia, China, France and Germany, all now opposed to war with Iraq, when he travels to the United Nations on Friday to listen to that U.N. weapons inspectors report. And when he gets there, Aaron, he said he plans to ask the ministers point blank how much more time they think they should give the inspectors or whether in fact all they want to do is give Iraq a pass and let it off the hook -- Aaron.

BROWN: Well, what I guess intrigues me most -- and there's a lot in your reporting today -- do we have any feel yet for what the Blix report is going to say on Friday? Because obviously that's going to set the tone for everything that follows.

KOPPEL: They've gotten a sense of that. And in fact, there was a senior State Department official, John Wolf (ph), who sat into the Blix briefing which was closed doors today at the United Nations for commission members, basically U.N. Security Council members, to listen to that preview. Condoleezza Rice was up there earlier in the week.

It sounds as if he's going to be tough, it's not going to be as long a report. But it isn't going to be everything that the U.S. wants it to be. That is, Aaron, the Blix report will not say that Iraq has not been cooperating and won't cooperate and that Blix is throwing in the towel. When Condoleezza Rice was up there earlier this week, she left in no uncertain terms the impression that the U.S. wants Blix to be as tough and as categorically clear as possible that Saddam Hussein is not cooperating -- Aaron.

BROWN: Andrea, a busy week ahead for you. Thank you for your work tonight. Andrea Koppel at the State Department.

And ahead on NEWSNIGHT for a Wednesday from Kuwait, Kelli Arena with the latest on the terror alert status. Some additional information coming out of the FBI today. And we'll report on what Americans are doing to prepare, and of course whether it's worth it.

Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: As we said earlier in the program, the men in charge of foreign and domestic intelligence spent another day testifying before Congress. Plenty of scary stuff there. Much of the story today revolves around them or the work of the agencies that they're running. But adding to their testimony today, the FBI put out its weekly bulletin to local authorities, and so throw that into the mix as well.

And for that, we turn once again to CNN's Kelli Arena, who joins us tonight from Washington. Kelli, good evening to you.

ARENA: Good evening, Aaron. Well let's start with what we heard from the director of the CIA. Once again, he offered up this assessment of intelligence, pointing to a major al Qaeda attack.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TENET: It points to plots timed to occur as early as the end of the Hajj, which occurs late this week. And it points to plots that could include the use of radiological dispersion devices, as well as poisons and chemicals.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ARENA: In its weekly terror bulletin, the FBI cautioned state and local partners about that threat. Part of the bulletin reads, "While these attacks are best suited for assassinations and small- scale dispersal, they can potentially cause hundreds of casualties and wide spread panic if used in multiple simultaneous attacks." Now the FBI also says, based on interviews of convicted terrorists and detainees, nuclear power plants and chemical plants remain viable targets.

Now there were some suggests included for law enforcement. Among them, to various security routines. To be aware that employees who work at certain facilities could be threats planted there by terrorist groups, and to be aware of all public information available pertaining to potential targets.

Aaron, I should point out that this FBI bulletin is not meant for public consumption but for law enforcement purposes. Back to you.

BROWN: Well, whether it's meant for public consumption or not, it's just been consumed by the public. So tell me, give me a little more context here. How different is it from last week's bulletin or the bulletin from the week before?

ARENA: Well, we have seen week to week sort of a ratcheting up of the concern level on the part of the FBI in getting information out. Last week, they skipped it, you remember, because there was the raising of the terror alert. And there was some concern, I am told by sources, that if they put something out in black and white ahead of an administration decision, that that might muddy the waters a bit. And so the bulletin did not even go out last week.

But I can tell you, Aaron, in conversation after conversation, the concern level is very high. FBI agents are ready, on their bodies with three days worth of clothes and personal items, medical prescriptions and so on in case of an emergency. As one agent put it today, he's been on this job for 30 years and he has never been more concerned about a possible attack as he is today.

BROWN: Kelli, thank you. That is about as sobering as it gets. Kelli Arena in Washington.

It is honestly quite strange for us to be here so far away and watch these warnings that Americans have been given and clearly are taking to heart. We know from the e-mails we see many of you are running to hardware stores with the government-provided list, going disaster shopping essentially. Tonight, the country looks likes one nation, indivisible, held together by duct tape. Here's CNN's Jeanne Meserve.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... batteries, radio, first aid kit, a hard hat, fluorescent tape. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A hard hat? That's the first time I heard that one.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sounds great. I'll take two.

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's a banner week for some hardware stores in New York and elsewhere, as Americans stock up for a possible terrorist attack.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think that in the long run this is going to be unnecessary, and I think it's really creating quite a panic among the people. We're selling a ton of duct tape though.

MESERVE: Shoppers explain their rush to the registers this way...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Better to be safe than sorry, right?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's right.

MESERVE: But will the terror item shopping list make you safer?

DR. JEFFREY ELTING, D.C. HOSPITAL ASSOCIATION: It could, but it depends on the environment, the agent, where you live, and a lot of other factors.

MESERVE: One recommendation made by the government is being viewed with particular skepticism.

JONATHAN TUCKER, U.S. INSTITUTE OF PEACE: I think the recommendations about duct tape and plastic sheeting are probably excessive.

MESERVE: And some will tell you ineffective. Sealing windows and doors will be little help in a biological or radiological incident, but could provide some protection in certain chemical scenarios.

SEN. TOM DASCHLE (D-SD), MINORITY LEADER: This is not an adequate response to the seriousness and the extraordinary difficulties that our country is confronting as we consider what repercussions could come from these attacks.

MESERVE: The most appropriate response some experts say would be to better prepare and equip the nation's first responders. But Congress hasn't approved money for that. So they say use the good information about preparedness. Have a family communications plan, three days of food and water, a battery operated radio, medicines, and some suggest you add a few special items.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have cookies if you have kids. You could be stuck in your house for a little while here. I might even have a little Johnny Walker in there or something.

MESERVE (on camera): It is impossible for anyone to give you detailed instructions about what to do ahead of a terrorist attack, because those instructions will vary depending on the type of weapon and kind of delivery system and where you are. But experts agree on this: the thing that will help you most in any emergency is a calm head and innovative approach. Jeanne Meserve, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: That's the new normal, my friends. When NEWSNIGHT continues, we'll talk with the topic of terror threats and our readiness for whatever happens. We'll be joined by Judith Miller and talk about those topics, Iraq, North Korea, a number of other things. We're glad to have her with us as NEWSNIGHT continues from Kuwait on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Judith Miller of "The New York Times" is with us tonight. As many of you know who have been with us for a while, Ms. Miller is an extraordinary reporter on areas of all things, nasty, chemical, biological and the like. She does that for "The Times." She's a published author as well, and she's a good friend of the program.

Judy, it's good to you have with us. I want to cover a lot of ground, but let me start with just a quick one. What do you make of all this that's been going on the last week now?

JUDITH MILLER, "THE NEW YORK TIMES" Well I find it ironic, Aaron, that you feel safer in Kuwait than we do here at home. I think New Yorkers and people in Washington have been particularly hard hit by this barrage of warnings that has been issued by the administration all of a sudden it seems. In fact, as David Ensor pointed out earlier, a lot of this information has been known earlier and yet it takes a kind of sense of timing, this awkward coincidence of the warnings, coupled with the threat of war, to really send people into an extreme state of anxiety.

BROWN: There are a lot of things we could talk about. I want to bring something up that will resonate particularly here in Kuwait. A piece you wrote, I guess it was in yesterday's "Times," about the administration's efforts to enlist Iraqi opposition support. And one man in particular that Kuwaitis are not going to be very happy about.

MILLER: Well, some Kuwaitis are, but most Kuwaitis are somewhat skeptical of (UNINTELLIGIBLE). This is one of the many Suni establishment figures to whom the administration is now belatedly reaching out. This is a man who, in 1961, said Kuwait didn't have a right to exist as a separate state. But he is now being courted by the administration much to the displeasure not only of some people in Kuwait, but also to other members of the Iraqi opposition.

I think that Dr. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) is a very distinguished individual. He did renounce that statement a long time ago, and publicly in 1999, but I think it shows you that the administration is somewhat late in getting its post-Saddam planning going. And there are still a lot of questions about which Iraqis they will rely on during the war and after the war and who is going to select those people. All of this is really very much in doubt now. BROWN: Back to questions of chemical and the like. Can you add anything to this discussion that Secretary Powell got into today about where the ricin came from and this connection, whether there's a connection, between Iraq and al Qaeda?

MILLER: Aaron, I think this is the weakest part of the administration's argument so far. At least in terms of what they've been willing to present publicly. What we've seen comes almost exclusively now from Secretary Powell. He talks about links between the ansar (ph) Islam radical Islamic faction in northern Iraq, which Saddam Hussein does not control, and al Qaeda.

But the British intelligence officers whom I've spoken to and the European counterterrorism officials say that the ricin, which has been the subject of enormous concern in England, appears to be homemade. It appears to be a very poor quality. Now, the people who made it might have learned those skills in that camp in Northern Iraq and they may have al Qaeda connections. But the Europeans are still much more skeptical of this than Secretary Powell.

BROWN: Judy, of all the people I know, you know the most about all of this. So, have you gone out and bought duct tape and plastic for your...

MILLER: Well, actually, Aaron, I bought duct tape a long time ago, because I was privileged, I might say, to be able to go to a place that had anthrax buried beneath the soil several years ago, a small island in the Aral Sea.

And I was told at the time that something I should do is put duct tape around my gloves and also on my boots. And I did that. And I have no reason to believe, based on the studies I've seen, that it might not be helpful in the event of a chemical or a biological attack. The problem is knowing when and if you've been attacked, particularly with a biological agent, where there isn't necessarily a big cloud or fumes or anything that could let ordinary people know that they're in danger.

BROWN: Judy, thanks. This is as odd a week as, honestly, I can recall in my lifetime. Really, it's...

MILLER: People are -- they are either panicked or they're skeptical. And I think the proper response should probably be somewhere in between.

BROWN: Thanks, Judy -- Judith Miller with us. And we're glad to have her.

Still ahead on NEWSNIGHT from Kuwait, we'll get to some of the other news of the day. There's a new phase in the shuttle investigation, as the head of NASA up on Capitol Hill. You knew that would happen. And, later, we'll try and put these terror alerts in some context, as we look back at an age when the annihilation of the planet, all of it, was what was feared.

We're in Kuwait. This is NEWSNIGHT. And you're watching CNN. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Next on NEWSNIGHT: the latest on the shuttle investigation and a worry that the problem is one of the shuttle's wheel wells, a problem that could spell catastrophe -- a short break, right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: And it's the dawn of a new day here in Kuwait.

A few stories from around the United States, beginning with President Bush trying to push his tax-cutting proposal: Mr. Bush spoke to a group of small investors today. He said the centerpiece of his plan, getting rid of the tax on dividends is -- quote -- "good economic policy for the short term and the long term." But at what cost?

Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan, testifying for a second time, second day on Capitol Hill, warned that budget deficits may well lead to higher interest rates, mortgage rates in particular. The White House plan would lead to record deficit in the current fiscal year and significant deficits in the years to come, war or no war.

The head of NASA, Sean O'Keefe, was on Capitol Hill today. And in talking about the Columbia disaster, he included a quote about the time when the oceans were the great expanse to be explored: "A ship in the harbor is safe, but that's not what ships are built for." That seems to sum up the challenge, doesn't it? Get to the bottom of what went wrong and get those other shuttles back where they belong, in space, which, of course, is far easier to say than to actually do.

The latest on the hearings now and the arrival of shuttle debris in Florida, too, from CNN's Miles O'Brien.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN SPACE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The pieces, 15,000 of them so far, are beginning to come together in a hangar beside the runway where Columbia should have ended her mission on February 1.

The investigative team has taped a grid system to the floor to place the twisted, charred remains into some semblance of their order on the intact orbiter. Investigators hope to see the smoking gun staring at them right on this floor. The accident board, headed by retired Admiral Harold Gehman, also arrived at the cape.

RET. ADM. HAROLD GEHMAN, U.S. NAVY: We will return multiple times, as we bore into our investigation. We'll be here two days. We're going to go on to Huntsville and then to New Orleans, getting back into Houston on Saturday night. And we will work on Sunday. We are going to be essentially working either seven-day weeks or six-day weeks from now on.

O'BRIEN: But even as the work went on in Florida, in Washington, lawmakers questioned the very credibility of the Gehman board, which was picked by NASA hours after Columbia disintegrated. Agency administrator Sean O'Keefe testified before a joint committee, which had some questions about the independence of the Columbia investigation.

SEN. PETE DOMENICI (R), NEW MEXICO: It seems to me that, in almost any circumstance of this type, an agency can't very effectively investigate itself. I feel there ought to be a presidential commission impaneled.

SEAN O'KEEFE, NASA ADMINISTRATOR: This is an independent group of folks who have no baggage to carry as it pertains to NASA biases.

O'BRIEN (on camera): After the hearing, O'Keefe issued a statement changing the charter of the independent board. The amendment makes it clear Admiral Gehman does not have to consult with NASA or seek its approval.

(voice-over): Meanwhile, NASA was once again explaining an e- mail from one of its own engineers. Bob Daugherty assessed the possible damage caused by the foam that hit the underside of Columbia's left wing. Two days before the shuttle's scheduled landing, he warned that, if there was serious damage to the landing gear door, "something could get screwed up enough to prevent deployment of the gear, and then you're in a world of hurt."

But, in the end, they shuttle team discounted such scenarios, concluding the foam damage was not severe and Columbia was not in peril.

O'KEEFE: During the 16-day STS-107 mission, we had no indication that would suggest a compromise to flight safety.

O'BRIEN: O'Keefe says the findings will be released as soon as the ink is dry. NASA hopes the board will finish its job in only 60 days.

Miles O'Brien, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, we'll go out in the field here in Kuwait. We'll meet an international group of soldiers -- some of these countries might surprise you -- who swing into action after a chemical, biological or nuclear attack.

And later: back to the good old days when all we had to fear was total annihilation.

From Kuwait, this is NEWSNIGHT.

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BROWN: Next on NEWSNIGHT: the soldiers you never want to see.

A short break and we continue from Kuwait. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: We talked at the top tonight about the new normal, something born of the attacks of September 11.

This new normal is not just an American thing. The attack on New York and Washington shocked the whole world. It made every nation feel more vulnerable to the worst from the worst. Out in the Kuwaiti desert, we saw firsthand how the world has responded. For all the disagreements with Europe these days, the French and the Germans on Iraq, there is one thing these countries do get, that they must prepare together and work together or they are likely to suffer together from some of the deadliest weapons mankind has ever seen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN (voice-over): If you see these guys coming, run for your lives. Well, perhaps it's more accurate to say, if you see these guys coming, it's too late to run for your lives, for these are international troops formed after 9/11 to deal with the worst of the worst, weapons of mass destruction.

CAPT. REGAN WILSON, U.S. AIR FORCE: This task force, in my mind, is a service to this region, to the Middle East, in the event that the unthinkable happens.

BROWN: With the latest in protective suits and the latest in heavy equipment -- these are called Fox vehicles -- military personnel from three nations have been combined into a joint task force with but one job: help everyone, soldiers and civilians alike, in the event of a nuclear, biological or chemical attack, a prospect that, here in Kuwait, is hardly farfetched.

LT. COL. MICHAEL OBERNEYER, GERMAN ARMY: We have to be prepared for the worst case.

BROWN (on camera): And this is a pretty bad case. Your preparation is in really bad stuff, if you will. The prospects of chemical or biological attacks, I think as much as anything, terrifies people.

OBERNEYER: Yes. We do a lot of planning with that, also with real chemical agents, for example.

BROWN (voice-over): In the middle of this giant American base in the Kuwaiti desert, German soldiers have joined with the Americans and with Czechs, this despite the German government's opposition to an Iraqi war.

Iraq has nothing to do with this. This is about terror, plain and simple. And so, despite the political maneuverings and the diplomatic fuss, should Iraq attack with weapons of mass destruction, Germans will deal with it alongside of Americans. On this, the two countries agree.

OBERNEYER: We clearly divide these two things. From a German point of view, we divide it into, on the one hand, Operation Enduring Freedom, and, on the other hand, the likely operation against Iraq. And from our point of view, the second one doesn't belong to the Operation Enduring Freedom.

BROWN: As in most things dangerous in the military, it is young lieutenants who get the duty on the front lines. Lieutenant Gregor Schmitz would be a point man in the event of a real attack, chemical or nuclear.

1ST LT. GREGOR SCHMITZ, GERMAN ARMY: Here we have a probe for radiation. And we can detect it with this probe from the outside.

BROWN: Everyone here, the men and, yes, the women in this unit, train virtually every day.

BRIG. GEN. CORNELL WILSON, CONSEQUENCE MANAGEMENT TASK FORCE: We just have to be a little nimble and lean forward in the foxhole to make sure we're prepared for whatever comes along.

BROWN (on camera): Lean forward in the foxhole, which is to say, be ready all the time to move.

WILSON: Yes. Yes.

BROWN (voice-over): If they're not in the desert putting their vehicles through their paces, they are fitting and refitting their protective suits.

In these days of modern warfare, there will be soldiers on the front lines, as always, but there will be these men and women right behind, different risks, to be sure, but hardly less dangerous.

(on camera): What are they walking into if it happens?

R. WILSON: Yes, Aaron, you have these units out in the desert. And so much of the focus is on them and on their maneuvers. And, yes, they are the front line, as it were. But if the unthinkable happens, if weapons of mass destruction are employed in this theater, then this unit is on the front lines of hell.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: The front lines of hell. And you certainly got that feeling. At the same time, there was something reassuring about all the work and the sophistication of the people involved in this.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta is here with us in Kuwait. He's has also been looking at how both soldiers and civilians will be kept healthy or safe, which might be a better word.

Doc, good to have you with us.

You've been out with troops. Let's start with them. Frontline troops, how prepared are they should the worst happen?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, they seem very well prepared, Aaron, there's no question, although I am struck by the fact that you have, on average, 19-, 20-year-olds who are learning some very important life-saving lessons and they're expected to learn that information very quickly.

The sort of way that they're learning this is through repetition, classes over and over again. Some of these instructors -- I actually sat in on these classes -- are using acronyms to try and drill this information into the head. And, lastly, they're using sheer stories of terror of exactly how bad these agents can be to try and get these students/soldiers interested and to get them to remember this information.

So, I think they're prepared both with their training as well as their equipment, which I think is also better than 12 years ago. At least the gas masks and the suits are better. So, I think they're coming along rather well, Aaron.

BROWN: Just one quick one, if you can. Then I want to talk about civilians a bit.

Part of the problem, it seems to me -- tell me if I'm wrong -- is that, to a certain extent, this has all been theoretical. Forces have not been subjected to this sort of thing. We can test and we can drill and we can teach, but we don't really know how people will respond.

GUPTA: Yes, you're absolutely right, Aaron.

And, certainly this training is not new. People have been training for chemical, biological, even nuclear war attacks for a very long time. But I think the level of training has gone up. But the one thing that -- you're exactly right -- is missing is, we don't exactly know how people are going to respond.

For example, they have nine seconds to put on their mask during the event of a chemical attack. If that mask hits the ground, it's contaminated. I was setting there surveying people as they were doing some of these drills and, certainly, people were very flustered by that, oftentimes dropping the masks. They haven't actually been subjected to it. And I think that's the critical element that's missing.

BROWN: We're just -- from where you and I are right now, in the heart of Kuwait, we're just an hour's drive from the border. The Iraqis clearly could launch and hit here. There is tremendous concern among the civilian population in Kuwait. Do you have any feel for how prepared the Kuwaiti government is in the event of a chemical or biological attack?

GUPTA: Well, we did do some chatting with some of the Kuwaiti officials and have talked to some of the folks.

A couple things: One is that they have sort of been down this road before. They haven't seen a chemical attack before, but they've thought about it before, a little over a decade ago. I don't know -- I would have to say that I don't think the infrastructure is really set up for Kuwaitis to do the very specific things necessary in the event of a chemical attack, scary, but true.

We're talking about some very specific things, getting these gas masks on within nine seconds, getting these suits on. These are things that are learned by rote, doing it over and over and over again, drills. And I haven't seen that going on here, amongst the civilians at least.

BROWN: Sanjay, thank you -- Dr. Sanjay Gupta, who is with us here in Kuwait tonight.

And still ahead on NEWSNIGHT, segment seven rounds it out: the question of whether we'd rather be back in the '50s, when we all had fear of a different sort.

From Kuwait, this is NEWSNIGHT.

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BROWN: We end tonight where we began, with memories of another time and a different fear.

These are strange times, indeed, when the dullest of household items can take on almost mythical status: duct tape. OK, there's no cartoon superhero hero, Ducky the duct tape yet, but it's not so farfetched, is it? Remember, we used to have a turtle named Bert telling us how to survive a nuclear nightmare.

Here's CNN's Beth Nissen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BETH NISSEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Those of a certain age can still, after more than 40 years, sing the jingle.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (singing): Duck and cover, duck and cover.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NISSEN: Duck and cover, the government-sanctioned response in the 1950s to what was then seen as the greatest threat to the American public: the detonation of an atomic bomb.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: We must be ready every day, all the time, to do the right thing if the atomic bomb explodes: duck and cover.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NISSEN: Ducking under a picnic blanket didn't offer the slightest protection from an atomic blast, yet a generation of Americans did the drills. They were silly, but they made people feel better, feel like there was something they could do. BERNARD KERIK, FORMER POLICE COMMISSIONER, NEW YORK CITY: People are looking for leadership and direction. And I think, if they have it, there's a much lesser chance for panic to set in.

NISSEN: Now, in the face of new threats, bioterrorism, chemical weapons, dirty nukes, the public is being advised to, well, duct and cover, buy duct tape and plastic to cover windows and doors. That's a suggestion from homeland security and emergency management officials. Hardware stores across the country have reported a run this week on duct tape and plastic covering.

DR. VICTOR SIDEL, AUTHOR, "TERRORISM AND PUBLIC HEALTH": It probably doesn't do any harm. You spend some money, you give some business to local stores. Is it very likely that that will be helpful in the case of an undetermined, unpredicted attack? No, it's not very likely.

NISSEN: Experienced public safety authorities say officials owe answers, even vague, flimsy ones, to a worried public asking what to do about attacks government officials say are coming.

KERIK: It could be a little bit about letting people have control or let them know they're in control of their own environment. People want answers.

NISSEN: Others counter that vapid answers, unspecific warnings, only feed fierce, exaggerate risks.

SIDEL: Smallpox, anthrax, hemorrhagic fever are terrible things. There's no question about it. But one has to ask the question, as we live our lives, what are the chances of that happening to us compared to all of the other things that we can very well protect ourselves against? The main thing to do is to go about one's business, to understand that we live in a dangerous world, and to talk about the ways of making a less dangerous world.

NISSEN: A daunting challenge, indeed. One might be forgiven for wanting to just crawl under a bench or a desk or a bed and hide.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: Tony knows the bomb can explode any time of the year, day or night. Duck and cover.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NISSEN: Beth Nissen, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: And that's our report for tonight.

Tomorrow, we'll show you one of the great and old Kuwaiti traditions: camping, Kuwaiti style. We'll talk life, politics and the future. Join us, 10:00 Eastern.

Until then, good night for all of us at NEWSNIGHT.

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