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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown

Iraq Discovers Forbidden Bomb, Pledges Turnover to Inspectors

Aired February 25, 2003 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


AARON BROWN, HOST: Good evening again, everyone. OK, it's a bit late for a Christmas carol, but we thought a few visitations might be in order tonight. Visits from the ghost of policy past, present and future.
The ghost of policy past takes us back to October 2001, Afghanistan. You remember that. A great military victory and a true breath of freedom for the people in that troubled place.

Now, to the ghost of policy present. Afghanistan today, a much freer place to be sure, but still dangerously unstable. One U.N. official is the afraid the United States has lost interest. He warned a few days back that the Taliban and al Qaeda -- yes, they're still around -- are acting up again. And he points out there is still no national army, no national police force, no court system in place. And the war lords are still the main power in many parts of Afghanistan.

Flash forward now to the ghost of policy future, say, a year from now, February, 2004. Iraq, barely on our radar screen. Luckily, Baghdad and Saddam went down without much blood spilled. But the war itself was always the easy part.

Will there be tens of thousands of refugees? Will there be infighting among rival groups? Iraq is not unlike Yugoslavia in that regard. Did one of those nasty weapons end up in the wrong hands in the chaos of war? How will the Middle East react to the American occupation of a Muslim land?

A lot of what ifs and might happens. The future, if there is a war, poses lots of questions. Not the least of which is this: Will the country have the staying power, the money and the will to make the peace? More on that tonight.

We begin "The Whip" with the diplomacy surrounding whether to go to war. Richard Roth at the U.N. tonight to start us off. Richard, a headline from you.

RICHARD ROTH, CNN SR. U.N. CORRESPONDENT: Too little, too late, Aaron. Iraq tells the U.N. it has located some bombs previously in parts unknown, while the U.N. resolution clock winds down. Meanwhile, one U.N. member country close to the U.S. border thinks it might have a compromise for this crisis -- Aaron.

BROWN: Richard, thank you. We'll get to you at the top tonight. On to the White House. More tough talk from the president today. Suzanne Malveaux has the duty. Suzanne, a headline from you.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, we're really looking at a two-week window here that is quickly narrowing before President Bush has to make that critical decision whether or not the U.S. will go to war and who's going to be on the team.

BROWN: Suzanne, thank you.

Rhode Island next. The latest on the investigation into the nightclub tragedy there. Brian Cabell has slipped into the duties. So, Brian, a headline from you.

BRIAN CABELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, dogs were out sniffing through the rubble today. Heavy equipment was excavating in the rubble. There's a report that one person may still be missing. In the meantime, a grand jury is convening tomorrow. This, amid charges that the two owners here still are not cooperating fully in the investigation -- Aaron.

BROWN: Thank you, Brian.

And another tragedy, the tragedy of the Shuttle Columbia and the families left behind. Miles O'Brien back in Houston tonight. Miles, a headline from you.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Aaron, Evelyn Husband is a woman who gets by with a little help from her friends. But really, she gives more than she gets. We'll also tell you a little bit about the investigation, some fragments of tiles found, and remarkably a videotape that was shot on board the flight deck of Columbia before the tragedy -- Aaron.

BROWN: Miles, thank you. Back to you and the rest shortly.

Also coming up tonight on NEWSNIGHT for Tuesday, the 25th of February, planning for the war and the peace in Iraq. David Ensor tonight on how long the United States may have to commit to keeping the peace and paying for it. We'll also talk with former Senator George Mitchell about that and other matters.

And for some anti-war protesters, it may be the most powerful weapon they have: a savage wit (ph). It's "Segment 7" tonight. It's one of the many moving parts to the Iraq story.

We start off at the United Nations, another day of serious American arm twisting on the resolution declaring that Iraq has failed to disarm. But there were also a few tantalizing hints that perhaps Iraq might. Hints. They came in the form of discoveries by the Iraqis of weapons they claim went accounted for.

No doubt all of this comes as a convenient time, too. Too convenient many would say. But whatever the case, it is part of the picture tonight. So we begin again at the U.N. and CNN's Richard Roth.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROTH (voice-over): The new discoveries, according to Hans Blix, include some of the 500 aerial bombs still unaccounted for, capable of carrying biological or chemical agents. Also located, according to Blix, documents related to the destruction of prohibited weapons back in 1991.

HANS BLIX, CHIEF U.N. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: There are some elements that are positive and which need to be explored further.

ROTH: But the American delegate on Blix' weapons advisory board dismisses the announcement.

JOHN WOLF, ASSISTANT U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: They will dribble out. They will dribble out things to try to show cooperation.

ROTH: Spain is one of the few Security Council members on board with the U.S. for a new resolution. Its ambassador discussed strategy to win more votes at a meeting at the U.S. mission. A few blocks away, suddenly popular non-permanent members of the Council met with opponents of the resolution, such as France and Russia.

SERGEY LAVROV, RUSSIAN AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: We are against the use of force when we don't have any proof that Iraq is a threat.

ROTH: Those countries with votes but no vetoes plan to listen to both sides.

MUNIR AKRAM, PAKISTANI AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: We are not being asked to vote now and, therefore, I am very fortunate that I don't have to answer that question.

ROTH: And if all else fails, Spain's ambassador has this offer for president Saddam Hussein...

INOCENCIO ARIAS, SPANISH AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: Honestly, I would give him my house in Spain -- I mean it. I mean it. I will give him my house and part of my salary if we can solve the problem and we don't see any bomb.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROTH: There's probably a room with a view of the Mediterranean. But the view from here is hard bargaining ahead on this proposed resolution by the United States. There's diplomatic action happening at missions all around New York's east side.

Meanwhile, Canada floating a compromised proposal for the Council to tell Iraq what it has to do for inspectors and then vote on whether it's cooperating or not. The U.S. not too pleased with that attitude. Basically, been there, done that -- Aaron.

BROWN: I want to -- to the extent you can, tell me a bit about these negotiations. What is -- is this like Turkey? I mean is this like -- are offers of money being made, that sort of thing? What's going on?

ROTH: Well, everybody always talks about that. Several African ambassadors we interviewed today denied heatedly any type of payoff or aid, no matter how you phrase it. And we haven't heard of any offers like that. You usually do when seats are up for the Security Council in the general assembly.

Japan giving watches away. Greece once with a boat cruise down some Mediterranean river. So far, those offers haven't been made public. If they are, they're certainly being conducted by U.S. officials traveling the globe. Right now it's very early. We're still headed for two weeks of this.

BROWN: Richard, thank you very much. Richard Roth at the U.N. tonight.

To the White House next and what turns out to be the dilemma for the beat reporter. In truth, President Bush has been saying pretty much the same thing for months. The context changes, but the words are largely the same.

The context today is this: There is a negotiation going on to round up the votes at the U.N. There is the calendar, a war, if it's to be fought, should start well before the oppressive summer heat sets in, in the desert. There are tens of thousands of American forces training and waiting, and morale becomes an issue.

So while the words themselves may sound the same, it is the context that gives them urgency. Here again CNN's Suzanne Malveaux.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX (voice-over): President Bush says there's only one way to avert war with Iraq.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Full disarmament.

MALVEAUX: No sign of that, the White House says, despite news from the inspection team that Iraq has discovered a forbidden bomb that it says it will turn over to the U.N.

BUSH: I suspect that he will try to fool the world one more time. After all, he has had a history of doing that for 12 years. He's been successful at gaming the system.

ARI FLEISCHER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Given the fact that another weapon has been found today, 4,294 days after they were instructed to destroy all their weapons, it does raise questions about whether Iraq ever intends to comply with disarmament or not.

MALVEAUX: President Bush leads the lobbying effort with his top advisers to get the nine votes necessary from the U.N. Security Council to pass the U.S.-backed second resolution that would set the stage for war. Today, Mr. Bush met with one of his supporters, the prime minister of Bulgaria. Britain and Spain are also continuing their full court press on U.N. members.

White House spokesman Ari Fleischer admits the president doesn't yet have the votes, but he insists with or without them, the U.S. will move forward.

BUSH: It would be helpful and useful, but I don't believe we need a second resolution. Saddam Hussein hasn't disarmed.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX: And in an interesting twist, a Republican Congressman, Senator Peter Fitzgerald, said that the president recently told him that if the U.S. got a clear shot at Saddam Hussein, the president would consider rescinding the ban on assassinating foreign leaders. White House spokesman Ari Fleischer says the president has no recollection of such a conversation, and that the executive order on that ban still stands -- Aaron.

BROWN: But he also said that, in the case of war, all bets are off.

MALVEAUX: Well, absolutely. I mean there are a number of things here. There's a mechanism that the United States can say out of self- defense Saddam Hussein has been killed.

Of course, he is the commander in chief of his own military. And the administration has been saying all along that they hope that his own officials, his own generals will either turn on him or Saddam Hussein would voluntarily leave. That is something the administration seriously doubts.

BROWN: Are they frustrated at the White House that there is some sense out there that they have lost control of the process? That the process is being controlled at the U.N.? It's being controlled by Saddam in many ways. But that the White House has lost control?

MALVEAUX: Well, what the White House feels is that perhaps the public relations, control of public relations has really been spinning around. But the White House feels that ultimately it's had the control, at least the authority of using military force against Saddam Hussein if necessary. The bottom line is, ideally, they would like to have the international community behind them.

BROWN: Suzanne, thank you. Suzanne Malveaux at the White House.

Now to the military moves and counter moves. Today, prospects for a northern front against Iraq gained some momentum. And Baghdad, understandably, appeared to be bracing for an attack. Here's CNN's Jamie McIntyre.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A U.S. military transport ship prepares to unload equipment at a port in southern Turkey, as the Turkish parliament considers an agreement in principle that would allow 62,000 U.S. troops to be based there. Deployment of troops to Turkey will essentially complete the U.S. military buildup and set the stage for war with Iraq any time after the U.N. either accepts or rejects the latest disarmament resolution.

DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: Clearly, you give up strategic surprise when you decide you want to flow forces over a prolonged period of months. You do not necessarily give up tactical surprise.

MCINTYRE: Meanwhile, Iraq continues to make defensive moves. Pentagon sources say U.S. reconnaissance photos show that dozens of flatbed trucks are on the move north of Baghdad. Pentagon officials suspect Iraq plans to use the heavy equipment transport vehicles to reposition tanks and armored vehicles to fortify the defense of Baghdad, or perhaps other high-value assets, such as the Kirkuk oil fields or Saddam Hussein's ancestral home of Takrit.

Pentagon planners also fear one reason Saddam Hussein is so reluctant to destroy his Al Samoud missiles is that, with their 150 kilometer plus range, they may be his best weapon to deliver chemical or biological weapons against advancing U.S. troops.

Meanwhile, the U.S. continues to use air strikes in the no-fly zones to prepare the battlefield. One of three strikes Tuesday was against an astris (ph) multiple rocket launcher spotted near the southern port town of Basra. Close enough to hit U.S. troops massed across the border in Kuwait.

(on camera): So far, no Al Samoud missiles have been spotted in the no-fly zones. If they are found there, Pentagon officials say they would be taken out in a heart beat. Jamie McIntyre, CNN, the Pentagon.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: An awful lot on Iraq tonight. But consider what you're about to hear very carefully. You may not have considered it before.

Testifying today before the Senate Armed Services Committee, the Army's chief of staff was asked, "How many troops would be needed to stay in Iraq after the war?" "Something on the order of several hundred thousand," he answered. Though he was careful to say the final decision would be made by the commander in the region, General Tommy Franks.

In the buildup to a possible war and in the debate over whether there should be one at all, the administration has not been eager to talk about this sort of thing. It doesn't make the case an easier sell. But Congress has been wanting answers and so have reporters. And this week some of the answers have been offered. Here's CNN's David Ensor.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): American and allied troops have been in Bosnia since 1995. They've been in Kosovo since 1999. And they've been in Afghanistan since October 2001.

STEPHEN HADLEY, DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Many are already asking how long America is prepared to stay in Iraq. The answer is straightforward. We will stay as long as is necessary but not one day more.

ENSOR: How long depends on what the U.S. decides to do in Iraq. Transition quickly to some sort of unelected Iraqi leadership acceptable to the West, or transform Iraq into a democratic country. A prominent Democrat says he senses a split on the matter within the Bush administration.

SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN (D), DELAWARE: My seeking suspicion is Cheney, Rumsfeld, and company, it is transition. State and the president's occasional comments talk transformation.

ENSOR: After a period of stabilizing the country under General Tommy Franks, and then possibly under a civilian non-Iraqi ruler, State Department officials do talk about transforming Iraq with a new constitution, a new criminal code, and real democracy. The kind of project that took General MacArthur seven years in post World War II Japan.

MARC GROSSMAN, UNDERSECRETARY OF STATE: We seek an Iraq that is democratic, that is unified, that is multiethnic, which has no weapons of mass destruction, which has cut its links to terrorists and is at peace with its neighbors.

ENSOR: But writer Robert Baer, a former CIA officer who spent time in Iraq, warns against counting on U.S. soldiers intelligence officers and bureaucrats to transform Iraq.

ROBERT BAER, FMR, CIA OFFICER: The best possible thing is for the military to go in, get rid of Saddam, replace it with an acceptable government, acceptable to the Iraqis, and get out. Iraq is a hard place to rule. And the less time we spend there, the better.

ENSOR: Trouble is, finding a new leader acceptable to an Iraq deeply divided among Shiite and Sunni Muslims, Kurds, Turkmens and others. Finding such a leader so American forces can leave soon could be impossible.

(on camera): Though Secretary of State Powell and others have made clear that Iraq's oil wells would not be used to pay for the war, officials say some of it could be used to help rebuild the country to shape post-Saddam Iraq. Depending on how many years that takes, it could cost many billions of dollars more than the war itself. David Ensor, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, we'll take a look at what the polls are saying about the possibility of war with Iraq. We'll also talk with former Senator George Mitchell about that and what the next few months may bring and the diplomatic and military fronts. We're glad to have him with us. Later, Miles O'Brien's exclusive interview with the families of two of the shuttle astronauts: Commander Rick Husband and (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Manager Michael Anderson. A long way to go tonight. This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: In the crush of stories about where the White House stands on this and what the French think of that, there's a risk that the voice of ordinary Americans will get lost in the coverage. There are lots of different ways to change that. Tonight, we'll take a look at the polls.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN (voice-over): As the American military buildup near Iraq accelerates, and as the protests against any war gain momentum as well, the polling paints an interesting picture of where the country is these days.

FRANK NEWPORT, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, GALLUP ORGANIZATION: The American public supports in concept the idea, but there's a lot of shakiness there. We like to say that the attitudes towards Iraq are wide. That is, a lot of Americans say they support the concept of military action, but not deep. And they're not deeply felt.

BROWN: That, according to pollsters, is because Americans want company in any possible war. They are uncomfortable going it alone.

NEWPORT: Forty percent said they thought the U.S. should move militarily only with the United Nations vote. Just 30 percent said the U.S. should move without a U.N. vote. And another 26 percent said don't send troops at all.

BROWN: What perhaps is most surprising in the numbers is this: Despite the likelihood of war, despite the constant coverage the war debate and the war preparations are getting, despite it all, the war is not issue number one despite the cost and the risks.

NEWPORT: Fifty to 40 percent of Americans still come back and say it's the economy. And, again, I think the importance of this is to highlight how the American public simply does not think that the highest urgency issue on the plate of the American policy makers at this point is the situation in Iraq.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: A quick snapshot from the folks at Gallup tonight.

Picking up again on what happens after a war on Iraq, if there is a war with Iraq, today, as we reported, the Army said it would take several hundred thousand soldiers and Marines to occupy the country, an occupation that could last years. There is some resistance even among dissidents. Needed friends right now. Resistance to the American plan to run the country, if it comes to that, it will be no mean feat. No mean feat is the province of former Senator George Mitchell, who has brokered peace deals in the Senate and abroad. We're pleased to have him with us tonight. Senator, good to see you.

GEORGE MITCHELL, FMR. SENATE MAJORITY LEADER: Thanks, Aaron.

BROWN: Let's talk first about the negotiation going on at the United Nations. It is a negotiation. And I suppose in any negotiation, it's possible to split the difference. Is it possible here?

MITCHELL: I would not rule out a compromise. I think that both the position taken by its U.S. and its allies and France and its allies will have some weaknesses from the perspective of the undecided group in the middle. I think the weakness of the French position is the explicit reference to four more months, which takes the inspections into July, which then effectively immunizes Iraq from military action until sometime next fall or winter.

I think that's something many governments probably don't like and won't support. On the other hand, clearly, they don't support the U.S. position, otherwise they would have joined Spain, Bulgaria and the U.K. in signing up. So something in between is certainly possible. I would not rule it out. That's what happened with respect to the first Resolution 1441.

BROWN: Do you think that the White House has, to some degree, lost control of this? That even going back for this resolution really was a nod to Tony Blair, who desperately needs it. Have they lost control or at least a measure of control?

MITCHELL: Well, first, I don't think it's just a nod to Tony Blair. Although, obviously it's part of that. He really does need it. He'll have a terrifically difficult decision whether or not to join the U.S. if the U.N. doesn't approve it.

But your own poll that you just showed on the screen shows that, well, as I see it, three out of 10 Americans favor going it alone. So that means that 70 percent of Americans don't favor going it alone or don't favor going at all. And I think that's something that the president has to take into account.

This is a democracy and, as we know, the public views around the world are even more emphatic that position. In addition, the difficulty, expense and danger of a long occupation or a long period of transition makes it imperative that we get the broadest base of allies. Remember, we went into Bosnia and Kosovo and into Afghanistan with a lot of allies. Even there, we're still involved and it's still very expensive.

I think it's clear that the military action doesn't require any assistance from others on the part of the United States. I think the real help, resources, manpower, and everything else, will be needed after that.

BROWN: I'll ask this undiplomatically. And I know I'll get a diplomatic answer from you. Has the administration been a bit Pollyannaish about a post-war Iraq, what that would entail, what the risks are, what the costs would be?

MITCHELL: There's an understandable reluctance to discuss it while you're still trying to drum up support for doing it. Because any discussion involves speculation about cost, expense. You just cited the testimony of the commander of the U.S. Army suggesting several hundred thousand troops will be involved.

The estimates range into the many billions of dollars. And, obviously, the administration's concern, understandably, is that the more you talk about that, the less likely you are to get support for the initial decision. However, I do think that it is imperative that there be a complete and forthright discussion, because otherwise, sustaining public support for any action, I think, will be difficult.

I have no doubt, Aaron, that once the bombs start dropping, once American military personnel are in danger of being shot it, the American people will rally around the president. That's traditional, not just in this society, but in others. A long, messy aftermath, though, might see an ebbing of that support, and I think that's where you need full and frank public discussion.

BROWN: Just perhaps a little bit off the wall here. If the administration were to decide on a civilian to run Iraq for a time, would George Mitchell be interested in doing that?

MITCHELL: That really is off the wall, Aaron. I have never given it a moment's thought. It's never occurred to me that the administration might ask me to do it. Right now I don't have any great enthusiasm for the task.

BROWN: A few years in Baghdad isn't on the agenda.

MITCHELL: Not at this time.

BROWN: What makes you most nervous about a post-war occupation, if it comes to that?

MITCHELL: I think the danger to the American personnel, not just in Iraq, but throughout the region, and enflaming of religious and other hatreds toward the United States. It's an alarming situation that all over the world the United States is now seen as a danger to world peace and American interests are threatened.

The fact is, I don't think we have any colonizing interest. I don't think Americans want to run Iraq. I think the administration would be happy to get out as soon as they could. The problem is, they may not be able to. And it may be that this aftermath causes an increase in terrorist activity against the U.S. rather than a reduction, which is, of course, part of the rationale for doing it.

BROWN: Senator, it's always good to talk to you. I won't throw your name into the hat for that job.

MITCHELL: I think you just did, Aaron. BROWN: Oh, did I? Son of a gun. Thank you, Senator George Mitchell, as always.

Coming up on NEWSNIGHT, the latest from Rhode Island. Grand jury now looking into that horrible nightclub fire. We'll take a short break. And around the world NEWSNIGHT will continue.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: We did a double take today when we realized we were reading comments on safety advice and pyrotechnic history from members of the rock group KISS. We're all getting an unexpected education in the customs of the concert business. But for investigators in Rhode Island, it must seem like a five-day crash course.

As it stands now, this is a case of they said, we said, between the club and the band. Today, authorities issued subpoenas to members of the band, Great White, and search crews went back to the ruins looking for one more person who went out last Thursday night and didn't come home.

Here again: CNN's Brian Cabell.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CABELL (voice-over): The pile of charred rubble is five days old, but canine crews and heavy equipment returned to the site of the nightclub Tuesday, searching for any possible human remains. Authorities say they haven't yet accounted for one missing person from last Thursday night's fire that consumed the building within minutes.

The club stage manager claims he warned the club's owners three months ago about bands using pyrotechnics here.

PAUL VANNER, STAGE MANAGER, THE STATION: I said that: I'm having serious issues with these pyro guys. Guaranteed safety. I can't -- you want guaranteed safety, Mike? None. There's no gray area here, Mike, black and white. None. That's the guarantee that I can give you. Certainly, he was certainly like -- seemed to take it to heart.

CABELL: Authorities say the club's owners, Jeff and Michael Derderian, still have not been very cooperative in the investigation.

PATRICK LYNCH, RHODE ISLAND ATTORNEY GENERAL: Days now have passed. Our investigation has not slowed down. And I credit the incredible men and women in uniform for that progress. But I reiterate to all of you again, we're all looking for answers. I believe that the Derderians could offer some that would help all of us, but specifically me, as a chief law enforcement officer, make a determination whether or not this was criminal.

CABELL: The central question that remains: Did the band Great White have permission to use pyrotechnics on Thursday night? Club owners say they did not. The band insists they did. ED MCPHERSON, ATTORNEY FOR GREAT WHITE: The tour manager of the band, Dan Biechele, as a matter of routine with respect to this particular tour, would advance the show approximately a week before each show and discuss with each venue representative the fact that the band wanted to do these particular types of special effects.

In this particular case, he had a lengthy conversation with Mike Derderian, who is one of the owners of the venue, approximately a week before this show, told him exactly what the band wanted to do, and got very specific permission from Mr. Derderian.

CABELL: Although authorities won't confirm it, neighbors say police conducted a search at the home of one of the owners Sunday and Monday, taking away evidence for the grand jury investigation that gets under way on Wednesday.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABELL: Members of the band Great White have been subpoenaed. They're now in California. They're expected back here in Rhode Island by the end of the week. Whether any criminal charges will be filed in this case against anybody, of course, is uncertain at this point.

But what is absolutely certain, Aaron, I would think, is that civil suits will be filed in this case -- Aaron.

BROWN: Thank you, Brian -- Brian Cabell in Rhode Island tonight.

A few stories from around the country, beginning with a deadly shooting spree that went on all day, at it turned out, in Huntsville, Alabama. Four people were killed today after a gunman opened fire this morning at an employment agency, the suspect now in custody. He was arrested after he was cornered in his apartment. He has yet to be identified. Police say the shootings came after an argument over a C.D. player.

The latest on the sniper case: Teenage suspect Lee Malvo says he and John Muhammad were -- quote -- "equals" and that either of them could -- quote -- "call a particular shot on or off," the information coming to light in a document filed this week by Virginia prosecutors.

A symbolic move today involving homeland security: The Coast Guard officially moved from the Transportation Department to the new Department of Homeland Security. Cabinet secretaries Tom Ridge, who gets them, and Norm Mineta, who lost them, took part in the changeover, which featured color guards and Sousa marches.

And Chicago's Mayor Richard Daley swamped three little-known challengers to win a fifth term today. Daley got nearly 80 percent of the ballots counted. Only about a third of the people, I think, in Chicago who could vote did. His closest opponent got 14 percent.

Still ahead on NEWSNIGHT tonight: after the tragedy. Miles O'Brien joins us with a story of families of two of the shuttle astronauts, how they are doing -- that and more as NEWSNIGHT continues on CNN. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: And coming up on NEWSNIGHT: coping with disaster, the story of two of the shuttle astronaut families.

A short break and we're right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: A few developments today in the shuttle Columbia investigation: NASA confirmed that a piece of the shuttle was found in West Texas and that that piece came from an upper part of the left wing near the fuselage.

NASA officials also said -- this is remarkable -- that a digital video videotape shot from the flight deck has been found. It recorded about 14 minutes of Columbia's return to Earth. It shows the back of the crew's helmets, most of the flight deck. The tape stops about 15 minutes before Columbia broke up. It will be released to the public, NASA says, after family members of the crew have an opportunity to view it.

The world has spent so much time focusing on those final minutes in the lives of the Columbia even astronauts, but the families, of course, have so much more than those last few minutes to remember. They have years of marriage, the hours spent playing with the kids. And for two families, they have Sunday mornings at the same neighborhood church to remember, two widows who now have each other to lean on, the wives of Commander Rick Husband and payload manager Michael Anderson.

Their story reported tonight by CNN's Miles O'Brien.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN (voice-over): A little more than three weeks since she lost the love of her life, Evelyn Husband is drawing deep on her faith and somehow getting through an unbearable tragedy.

(on camera): How are things going?

EVELYN HUSBAND, WIFE OF COMMANDER RICK HUSBAND: They're going OK. Some days are great -- or some hours are great. I wouldn't say a whole day is great.

O'BRIEN (voice-over): The dark moments come when the kids are tucked in and she is alone with her thoughts of that morning, the 1st of February, landing day for Rick and his six crewmates.

E. HUSBAND: The whole time, I'm just very excited, absolutely no anxiety, because nothing had ever happened at landing before. So, launch is, I think, more stressful just because of Challenger. So, we've all seen how it could not go well. So...

O'BRIEN (on camera): You figured you'd been through it.

E. HUSBAND: Exactly.

O'BRIEN (voice-over): But exactly when the time came, there was no landing and suddenly she was surrounded by ashen faces.

E. HUSBAND: That was the first sensation I had in my stomach, just -- I just thought, you just get that panicked feeling. And I just thought, something's wrong. And I looked over at Rick's brother, who's a pilot and I said, "Keith, I think there's something wrong."

And he said, "I do, too."

O'BRIEN: And so began the longest day of Evelyn Husband's life. It was the end of everything, she 12-year-old Laura and 7-year-old Matthew called normal. She gets by with help from a legion of friends, giving whatever she can to her extended family.

(on camera): There's a lot said about this family that a crew becomes. And it is real, isn't it, especially in this case?

E. HUSBAND: Absolutely. And as difficult as this is to convey to all of my friends, there is nobody else on the planet that can fill that space than the crew families, because, with them, we all completely and totally empathize with each other.

O'BRIEN (voice-over): She is especially close to Sandy Anderson, wife of mission specialist Mike Anderson. Rick and he were in the same astronaut class, belong to the same church, live a block apart.

(on camera): How are you shoring each other up?

SANDY ANDERSON, WIFE OF MIKE ANDERSON: We all have a tremendous amount of respect and love for each other. We've been together so long, they really actually do feel like family. And we'll have a bond now that's just unbreakable.

O'BRIEN (voice-over): They've been on a forced march, from funeral to funeral, with still more to come. This past Friday, Evelyn eulogized Rick in his home town of Amarillo, Texas.

E. HUSBAND: Rick was a wonderful man, a terrific father, son and brother. And he was my best friend.

O'BRIEN: Between the eulogies and the tears, there has been time to think whether the risks were worth it in the end.

ANDERSON: This is something he wanted to do. He probably understood the risks better than I did. And he was willing to take those, so I was willing to support him. And, of course, you never think that's going to happen.

E. HUSBAND: I just -- I cannot be angry. Everything went -- if I had known the ending, I would have written it the exact same way as it all occurred. So I can't be angry.

O'BRIEN: Rick Husband was a family man in every sense of the word. Before he left on his mission, he left tapes for his children, prayers, and a few words for each day.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICK HUSBAND, NASA ASTRONAUT: Lord, we love you and we ask this in Jesus' name. Amen.

OK, Laura. So, it won't be long before I get to see you, whether it's today or tomorrow. And I love you very, very much.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: During the mission, Rick was, by all accounts, beaming. Evelyn sent him a wakeup call sung by Laura's choir. There were buoyant e-mails and a private teleconference. Everyone signed off with, "I love you."

(on camera): Your strength is -- it bowls me over. And I'm sure a lot of people have told you that. When -- does it fail you ever?

E. HUSBAND: Oh, sure. But, I mean, the thing that has not failed, I have not felt hopelessness. And I haven't felt that once. And I'm being very honest about that. And I'm very thankful for that. There have been times through this that I don't think I can take it anymore. The pain is horrible.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: I asked Evelyn and Sandy if they're following the investigation very closely. And they said they are not. They're not interested, they say, in the daily speculation that's been going around this investigation.

They want to know the concrete answers. Eventually, they feel confident there will be those answers. And they want to learn them when they become evident -- Aaron.

BROWN: Well, we're all with them on that.

Let's talk about few other pieces that we came across today. Beyond the sort of wonderment that this digital video survived the breakup and all, does it have any probative value, as the lawyers would say?

O'BRIEN: No, no probative value at all. It happens before the trouble begins. It's a very innocuous video, for those who are accustomed to seeing this kind of thing. And that's probably why we're going to see it so quickly, is that it really doesn't have any value to the investigation.

BROWN: Let's talk about, then, this piece that was identified as being a left wing piece near the fuselage. Its import is?

O'BRIEN: Well, you got to -- first of all, its location is one thing you've got to look at, Aaron. It's the far-westerly piece now. And the farther we go west, the closer, presumably, we're getting to the source of the trouble on Columbia. The fact that this appears to be from the left wing and is in the far-west location certainly matches all of the other data we've received so far indicating that the trouble was on the left side. Does it take us right to that point where the problem began? Way too early to say.

BROWN: Well, Miles, thank you for your work -- again, Miles O'Brien in Houston.

We'll take a short break.

When we come back on NEWSNIGHT, we'll check tomorrow morning's papers from around the country and around the world.

And later, in "Segment Seven": signs of the times, getting the anti-war message across with humor.

From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Next on NEWSNIGHT, we'll check tomorrow morning's papers. It's still tonight.

This is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Louisiana is sinking?

Secretary of State Powell back home -- that story begins our look at a number of stories from around the world. He returned tonight from Seoul and the inauguration of South Korea's new president. The two met earlier today, Secretary Powell saying they agreed the standoff with North Korea should be handled by all the governments concerned, not just the United States. Mr. Powell went on to say it looks like North Korea has yet to restart its plant for making weapons-grade plutonium, something the secretary called a wise choice.

More aftershocks today from a major earthquake in western China: five people killed today, bringing the death toll to at least 266. Upwards of 2,000 people are hurt and an untold amount of damage done. Much of the construction here was anything but sturdy in the first place. Now it's mostly rubble, leaving a lot of people homeless and bitter cold.

And in case you think the Middle East is just a sea of hot sand, look at this. A rare snowstorm covered Israel, Lebanon and Jordan in white, at least a foot of snow in some places, roads closed, schools shut down. It's quiet. People aren't killing each other. And in that regard, the storm qualifies as something of a minor miracle -- or maybe not so minor.

All right, morning papers from around the country and around the world, beginning with Chicago. We mentioned this earlier, "Chicago Sun- Times" -- still waiting on "The Chicago Tribune" -- "Daley Wins Big." And he did. About 80 -- well, 71 percent of the vote on this edition of "The Sun-Times." We'll see where it is tomorrow, but, anyway, Mayor Daley yet again.

Paula mentioned this in the promo. Congress is going to look at SUVs and its "USA Today"'s big story: "Crash Tests May Make SUVs Even More Deadly." The thing is that they make the front end so brittle that if they hit another car, they crush it. It's tough to be an SUV, isn't it?

"Miami Herald," this is interesting to me -- to me interesting, may not be to you. We'll find out, won't we? Look at how a newspaper deals with its region. The lead story in "The Miami Herald": "Bomb Blast in Venezuela," a lot of Central and South Americans in the Miami area, aimed at Colombia and Spain. This is the ongoing mess in Venezuela.

There was something -- I didn't like it that much. New Zealand: an act of terrorism, or at least the fear of an act of terrorism affecting the America's Cup: "Cyanide Letter Threat to the Cup." It was sent to an Australian official in New Zealand. And that's got a lot of people nervous there.

All right, how much time we got? OK, "Le Monde." Do you read French? Fiftieth anniversary of Stalin's death, why is that the lead? Down in the corner: the story of a chef. We won't make you read it in French.

Fortunately, we have the English version of the story from "The Guardian": "Top Chef Kills Himself After Losing Points in a Food Guide." This is true. This is one of France's most famous chefs. And his restaurant was downgraded by one of those rating services. And that, apparently, and lot of other things, he decided to take his own life. It's caused a major deal among foodies, food critics, chefs and the rest in France.

We out of time? OK.

We'll take a look at -- it's funny how that worked. Next on NEWSNIGHT: the anti-war movement, with a touch of humor. Imagine that.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Finally from us tonight, someone once said that true wit has a grave intention. There's plenty of both in this story about people who want to make you think and will, no doubt, make you laugh.

Here's Jeanne Moos.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Whether you love them or hate them, you've got to admit those anti-war protesters have a way with words. PROTESTERS (singing): We all live in a military state.

MOOS: Not those words. We mean the war of words on their signs.

PROTESTERS: No more war!

MOOS: Oil is a favorite topic: How many lives per gallon? Read between the pipelines. How did our oil get under their sand?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're hooked. Keep drinking up, America.

MOOS: Or how about this one?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What if Iraq's major export was broccoli?

MOOS: That was just one of a couple hundred favorite signs e- mailed in by listeners at the request of radio station WNYC.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fight plaque, not Iraq.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Read my apocalypse.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dior, not war.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Osama bin forgotten?

MOOS: Not as forgotten as that quaint old standby, make love, not war. Nowadays, they write, war is like, so, 20th century.

PATRICIA FRIEDLAND, ANTI-WAR ORGANIZER: As you were walking along, you were just constantly kind of chuckling.

MOOS: And it wasn't just at the New York rally. In Australia, "No War" was composed by women wearing no clothes. Anti-war groups plaster their favorite signs all over their Web sites. Instead of got milk, it's, got oil? Stop mad cowboy disease, blondes against dumb wars.

JESSE EPSTEIN, ANTI-WAR ORGANIZER: And it's not like an angry mob yelling and chanting. It's something that's approachable, because it's funny.

MOOS: Often at the president's expense. Dude, where's my war?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: W., you are not the man your father wasn't.

MOOS: Draft the Bush twins. Empty warhead found in White House. The next war would be Dubya Dubya III.

But President Bush isn't the only target. Australia's prime minister was depicted as a dog being led around by President Bush. The president's axis of evil speech provoked a lot of spinoffs. And how can you resist singing to this sign?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (singing): When you least expect it...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (singing): You're arrested. It's your lucky day.

MOOS: Even CNN found itself on a couple of signs. This one left us not knowing what to think.

If you're looking for a sign from above, there was one. And what would a protest be without duct tape? Demonstrators even made an anti-Bush message out of police horse droppings.

STEVE AULT, ANTI-WAR ORGANIZER: I don't know quite how it was assembled, but it was on the ground.

MOOS: And if you find all of this revolting...

(on camera): Don't get mad at us. We didn't write all those Bush-bashing signs. We wrote this one: sign language, sign language, sign language, sign language!

(voice-over): Even if sign language doesn't always translate.

Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Good to have you with us tonight. We're back tomorrow at 10:00 Eastern time. We hope you'll join us then.

Until then, good night for all of us at NEWSNIGHT.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





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Aired February 25, 2003 - 22:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, HOST: Good evening again, everyone. OK, it's a bit late for a Christmas carol, but we thought a few visitations might be in order tonight. Visits from the ghost of policy past, present and future.
The ghost of policy past takes us back to October 2001, Afghanistan. You remember that. A great military victory and a true breath of freedom for the people in that troubled place.

Now, to the ghost of policy present. Afghanistan today, a much freer place to be sure, but still dangerously unstable. One U.N. official is the afraid the United States has lost interest. He warned a few days back that the Taliban and al Qaeda -- yes, they're still around -- are acting up again. And he points out there is still no national army, no national police force, no court system in place. And the war lords are still the main power in many parts of Afghanistan.

Flash forward now to the ghost of policy future, say, a year from now, February, 2004. Iraq, barely on our radar screen. Luckily, Baghdad and Saddam went down without much blood spilled. But the war itself was always the easy part.

Will there be tens of thousands of refugees? Will there be infighting among rival groups? Iraq is not unlike Yugoslavia in that regard. Did one of those nasty weapons end up in the wrong hands in the chaos of war? How will the Middle East react to the American occupation of a Muslim land?

A lot of what ifs and might happens. The future, if there is a war, poses lots of questions. Not the least of which is this: Will the country have the staying power, the money and the will to make the peace? More on that tonight.

We begin "The Whip" with the diplomacy surrounding whether to go to war. Richard Roth at the U.N. tonight to start us off. Richard, a headline from you.

RICHARD ROTH, CNN SR. U.N. CORRESPONDENT: Too little, too late, Aaron. Iraq tells the U.N. it has located some bombs previously in parts unknown, while the U.N. resolution clock winds down. Meanwhile, one U.N. member country close to the U.S. border thinks it might have a compromise for this crisis -- Aaron.

BROWN: Richard, thank you. We'll get to you at the top tonight. On to the White House. More tough talk from the president today. Suzanne Malveaux has the duty. Suzanne, a headline from you.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, we're really looking at a two-week window here that is quickly narrowing before President Bush has to make that critical decision whether or not the U.S. will go to war and who's going to be on the team.

BROWN: Suzanne, thank you.

Rhode Island next. The latest on the investigation into the nightclub tragedy there. Brian Cabell has slipped into the duties. So, Brian, a headline from you.

BRIAN CABELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, dogs were out sniffing through the rubble today. Heavy equipment was excavating in the rubble. There's a report that one person may still be missing. In the meantime, a grand jury is convening tomorrow. This, amid charges that the two owners here still are not cooperating fully in the investigation -- Aaron.

BROWN: Thank you, Brian.

And another tragedy, the tragedy of the Shuttle Columbia and the families left behind. Miles O'Brien back in Houston tonight. Miles, a headline from you.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Aaron, Evelyn Husband is a woman who gets by with a little help from her friends. But really, she gives more than she gets. We'll also tell you a little bit about the investigation, some fragments of tiles found, and remarkably a videotape that was shot on board the flight deck of Columbia before the tragedy -- Aaron.

BROWN: Miles, thank you. Back to you and the rest shortly.

Also coming up tonight on NEWSNIGHT for Tuesday, the 25th of February, planning for the war and the peace in Iraq. David Ensor tonight on how long the United States may have to commit to keeping the peace and paying for it. We'll also talk with former Senator George Mitchell about that and other matters.

And for some anti-war protesters, it may be the most powerful weapon they have: a savage wit (ph). It's "Segment 7" tonight. It's one of the many moving parts to the Iraq story.

We start off at the United Nations, another day of serious American arm twisting on the resolution declaring that Iraq has failed to disarm. But there were also a few tantalizing hints that perhaps Iraq might. Hints. They came in the form of discoveries by the Iraqis of weapons they claim went accounted for.

No doubt all of this comes as a convenient time, too. Too convenient many would say. But whatever the case, it is part of the picture tonight. So we begin again at the U.N. and CNN's Richard Roth.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROTH (voice-over): The new discoveries, according to Hans Blix, include some of the 500 aerial bombs still unaccounted for, capable of carrying biological or chemical agents. Also located, according to Blix, documents related to the destruction of prohibited weapons back in 1991.

HANS BLIX, CHIEF U.N. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: There are some elements that are positive and which need to be explored further.

ROTH: But the American delegate on Blix' weapons advisory board dismisses the announcement.

JOHN WOLF, ASSISTANT U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: They will dribble out. They will dribble out things to try to show cooperation.

ROTH: Spain is one of the few Security Council members on board with the U.S. for a new resolution. Its ambassador discussed strategy to win more votes at a meeting at the U.S. mission. A few blocks away, suddenly popular non-permanent members of the Council met with opponents of the resolution, such as France and Russia.

SERGEY LAVROV, RUSSIAN AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: We are against the use of force when we don't have any proof that Iraq is a threat.

ROTH: Those countries with votes but no vetoes plan to listen to both sides.

MUNIR AKRAM, PAKISTANI AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: We are not being asked to vote now and, therefore, I am very fortunate that I don't have to answer that question.

ROTH: And if all else fails, Spain's ambassador has this offer for president Saddam Hussein...

INOCENCIO ARIAS, SPANISH AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: Honestly, I would give him my house in Spain -- I mean it. I mean it. I will give him my house and part of my salary if we can solve the problem and we don't see any bomb.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROTH: There's probably a room with a view of the Mediterranean. But the view from here is hard bargaining ahead on this proposed resolution by the United States. There's diplomatic action happening at missions all around New York's east side.

Meanwhile, Canada floating a compromised proposal for the Council to tell Iraq what it has to do for inspectors and then vote on whether it's cooperating or not. The U.S. not too pleased with that attitude. Basically, been there, done that -- Aaron.

BROWN: I want to -- to the extent you can, tell me a bit about these negotiations. What is -- is this like Turkey? I mean is this like -- are offers of money being made, that sort of thing? What's going on?

ROTH: Well, everybody always talks about that. Several African ambassadors we interviewed today denied heatedly any type of payoff or aid, no matter how you phrase it. And we haven't heard of any offers like that. You usually do when seats are up for the Security Council in the general assembly.

Japan giving watches away. Greece once with a boat cruise down some Mediterranean river. So far, those offers haven't been made public. If they are, they're certainly being conducted by U.S. officials traveling the globe. Right now it's very early. We're still headed for two weeks of this.

BROWN: Richard, thank you very much. Richard Roth at the U.N. tonight.

To the White House next and what turns out to be the dilemma for the beat reporter. In truth, President Bush has been saying pretty much the same thing for months. The context changes, but the words are largely the same.

The context today is this: There is a negotiation going on to round up the votes at the U.N. There is the calendar, a war, if it's to be fought, should start well before the oppressive summer heat sets in, in the desert. There are tens of thousands of American forces training and waiting, and morale becomes an issue.

So while the words themselves may sound the same, it is the context that gives them urgency. Here again CNN's Suzanne Malveaux.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX (voice-over): President Bush says there's only one way to avert war with Iraq.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Full disarmament.

MALVEAUX: No sign of that, the White House says, despite news from the inspection team that Iraq has discovered a forbidden bomb that it says it will turn over to the U.N.

BUSH: I suspect that he will try to fool the world one more time. After all, he has had a history of doing that for 12 years. He's been successful at gaming the system.

ARI FLEISCHER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Given the fact that another weapon has been found today, 4,294 days after they were instructed to destroy all their weapons, it does raise questions about whether Iraq ever intends to comply with disarmament or not.

MALVEAUX: President Bush leads the lobbying effort with his top advisers to get the nine votes necessary from the U.N. Security Council to pass the U.S.-backed second resolution that would set the stage for war. Today, Mr. Bush met with one of his supporters, the prime minister of Bulgaria. Britain and Spain are also continuing their full court press on U.N. members.

White House spokesman Ari Fleischer admits the president doesn't yet have the votes, but he insists with or without them, the U.S. will move forward.

BUSH: It would be helpful and useful, but I don't believe we need a second resolution. Saddam Hussein hasn't disarmed.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX: And in an interesting twist, a Republican Congressman, Senator Peter Fitzgerald, said that the president recently told him that if the U.S. got a clear shot at Saddam Hussein, the president would consider rescinding the ban on assassinating foreign leaders. White House spokesman Ari Fleischer says the president has no recollection of such a conversation, and that the executive order on that ban still stands -- Aaron.

BROWN: But he also said that, in the case of war, all bets are off.

MALVEAUX: Well, absolutely. I mean there are a number of things here. There's a mechanism that the United States can say out of self- defense Saddam Hussein has been killed.

Of course, he is the commander in chief of his own military. And the administration has been saying all along that they hope that his own officials, his own generals will either turn on him or Saddam Hussein would voluntarily leave. That is something the administration seriously doubts.

BROWN: Are they frustrated at the White House that there is some sense out there that they have lost control of the process? That the process is being controlled at the U.N.? It's being controlled by Saddam in many ways. But that the White House has lost control?

MALVEAUX: Well, what the White House feels is that perhaps the public relations, control of public relations has really been spinning around. But the White House feels that ultimately it's had the control, at least the authority of using military force against Saddam Hussein if necessary. The bottom line is, ideally, they would like to have the international community behind them.

BROWN: Suzanne, thank you. Suzanne Malveaux at the White House.

Now to the military moves and counter moves. Today, prospects for a northern front against Iraq gained some momentum. And Baghdad, understandably, appeared to be bracing for an attack. Here's CNN's Jamie McIntyre.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A U.S. military transport ship prepares to unload equipment at a port in southern Turkey, as the Turkish parliament considers an agreement in principle that would allow 62,000 U.S. troops to be based there. Deployment of troops to Turkey will essentially complete the U.S. military buildup and set the stage for war with Iraq any time after the U.N. either accepts or rejects the latest disarmament resolution.

DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: Clearly, you give up strategic surprise when you decide you want to flow forces over a prolonged period of months. You do not necessarily give up tactical surprise.

MCINTYRE: Meanwhile, Iraq continues to make defensive moves. Pentagon sources say U.S. reconnaissance photos show that dozens of flatbed trucks are on the move north of Baghdad. Pentagon officials suspect Iraq plans to use the heavy equipment transport vehicles to reposition tanks and armored vehicles to fortify the defense of Baghdad, or perhaps other high-value assets, such as the Kirkuk oil fields or Saddam Hussein's ancestral home of Takrit.

Pentagon planners also fear one reason Saddam Hussein is so reluctant to destroy his Al Samoud missiles is that, with their 150 kilometer plus range, they may be his best weapon to deliver chemical or biological weapons against advancing U.S. troops.

Meanwhile, the U.S. continues to use air strikes in the no-fly zones to prepare the battlefield. One of three strikes Tuesday was against an astris (ph) multiple rocket launcher spotted near the southern port town of Basra. Close enough to hit U.S. troops massed across the border in Kuwait.

(on camera): So far, no Al Samoud missiles have been spotted in the no-fly zones. If they are found there, Pentagon officials say they would be taken out in a heart beat. Jamie McIntyre, CNN, the Pentagon.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: An awful lot on Iraq tonight. But consider what you're about to hear very carefully. You may not have considered it before.

Testifying today before the Senate Armed Services Committee, the Army's chief of staff was asked, "How many troops would be needed to stay in Iraq after the war?" "Something on the order of several hundred thousand," he answered. Though he was careful to say the final decision would be made by the commander in the region, General Tommy Franks.

In the buildup to a possible war and in the debate over whether there should be one at all, the administration has not been eager to talk about this sort of thing. It doesn't make the case an easier sell. But Congress has been wanting answers and so have reporters. And this week some of the answers have been offered. Here's CNN's David Ensor.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): American and allied troops have been in Bosnia since 1995. They've been in Kosovo since 1999. And they've been in Afghanistan since October 2001.

STEPHEN HADLEY, DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Many are already asking how long America is prepared to stay in Iraq. The answer is straightforward. We will stay as long as is necessary but not one day more.

ENSOR: How long depends on what the U.S. decides to do in Iraq. Transition quickly to some sort of unelected Iraqi leadership acceptable to the West, or transform Iraq into a democratic country. A prominent Democrat says he senses a split on the matter within the Bush administration.

SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN (D), DELAWARE: My seeking suspicion is Cheney, Rumsfeld, and company, it is transition. State and the president's occasional comments talk transformation.

ENSOR: After a period of stabilizing the country under General Tommy Franks, and then possibly under a civilian non-Iraqi ruler, State Department officials do talk about transforming Iraq with a new constitution, a new criminal code, and real democracy. The kind of project that took General MacArthur seven years in post World War II Japan.

MARC GROSSMAN, UNDERSECRETARY OF STATE: We seek an Iraq that is democratic, that is unified, that is multiethnic, which has no weapons of mass destruction, which has cut its links to terrorists and is at peace with its neighbors.

ENSOR: But writer Robert Baer, a former CIA officer who spent time in Iraq, warns against counting on U.S. soldiers intelligence officers and bureaucrats to transform Iraq.

ROBERT BAER, FMR, CIA OFFICER: The best possible thing is for the military to go in, get rid of Saddam, replace it with an acceptable government, acceptable to the Iraqis, and get out. Iraq is a hard place to rule. And the less time we spend there, the better.

ENSOR: Trouble is, finding a new leader acceptable to an Iraq deeply divided among Shiite and Sunni Muslims, Kurds, Turkmens and others. Finding such a leader so American forces can leave soon could be impossible.

(on camera): Though Secretary of State Powell and others have made clear that Iraq's oil wells would not be used to pay for the war, officials say some of it could be used to help rebuild the country to shape post-Saddam Iraq. Depending on how many years that takes, it could cost many billions of dollars more than the war itself. David Ensor, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, we'll take a look at what the polls are saying about the possibility of war with Iraq. We'll also talk with former Senator George Mitchell about that and what the next few months may bring and the diplomatic and military fronts. We're glad to have him with us. Later, Miles O'Brien's exclusive interview with the families of two of the shuttle astronauts: Commander Rick Husband and (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Manager Michael Anderson. A long way to go tonight. This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: In the crush of stories about where the White House stands on this and what the French think of that, there's a risk that the voice of ordinary Americans will get lost in the coverage. There are lots of different ways to change that. Tonight, we'll take a look at the polls.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN (voice-over): As the American military buildup near Iraq accelerates, and as the protests against any war gain momentum as well, the polling paints an interesting picture of where the country is these days.

FRANK NEWPORT, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, GALLUP ORGANIZATION: The American public supports in concept the idea, but there's a lot of shakiness there. We like to say that the attitudes towards Iraq are wide. That is, a lot of Americans say they support the concept of military action, but not deep. And they're not deeply felt.

BROWN: That, according to pollsters, is because Americans want company in any possible war. They are uncomfortable going it alone.

NEWPORT: Forty percent said they thought the U.S. should move militarily only with the United Nations vote. Just 30 percent said the U.S. should move without a U.N. vote. And another 26 percent said don't send troops at all.

BROWN: What perhaps is most surprising in the numbers is this: Despite the likelihood of war, despite the constant coverage the war debate and the war preparations are getting, despite it all, the war is not issue number one despite the cost and the risks.

NEWPORT: Fifty to 40 percent of Americans still come back and say it's the economy. And, again, I think the importance of this is to highlight how the American public simply does not think that the highest urgency issue on the plate of the American policy makers at this point is the situation in Iraq.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: A quick snapshot from the folks at Gallup tonight.

Picking up again on what happens after a war on Iraq, if there is a war with Iraq, today, as we reported, the Army said it would take several hundred thousand soldiers and Marines to occupy the country, an occupation that could last years. There is some resistance even among dissidents. Needed friends right now. Resistance to the American plan to run the country, if it comes to that, it will be no mean feat. No mean feat is the province of former Senator George Mitchell, who has brokered peace deals in the Senate and abroad. We're pleased to have him with us tonight. Senator, good to see you.

GEORGE MITCHELL, FMR. SENATE MAJORITY LEADER: Thanks, Aaron.

BROWN: Let's talk first about the negotiation going on at the United Nations. It is a negotiation. And I suppose in any negotiation, it's possible to split the difference. Is it possible here?

MITCHELL: I would not rule out a compromise. I think that both the position taken by its U.S. and its allies and France and its allies will have some weaknesses from the perspective of the undecided group in the middle. I think the weakness of the French position is the explicit reference to four more months, which takes the inspections into July, which then effectively immunizes Iraq from military action until sometime next fall or winter.

I think that's something many governments probably don't like and won't support. On the other hand, clearly, they don't support the U.S. position, otherwise they would have joined Spain, Bulgaria and the U.K. in signing up. So something in between is certainly possible. I would not rule it out. That's what happened with respect to the first Resolution 1441.

BROWN: Do you think that the White House has, to some degree, lost control of this? That even going back for this resolution really was a nod to Tony Blair, who desperately needs it. Have they lost control or at least a measure of control?

MITCHELL: Well, first, I don't think it's just a nod to Tony Blair. Although, obviously it's part of that. He really does need it. He'll have a terrifically difficult decision whether or not to join the U.S. if the U.N. doesn't approve it.

But your own poll that you just showed on the screen shows that, well, as I see it, three out of 10 Americans favor going it alone. So that means that 70 percent of Americans don't favor going it alone or don't favor going at all. And I think that's something that the president has to take into account.

This is a democracy and, as we know, the public views around the world are even more emphatic that position. In addition, the difficulty, expense and danger of a long occupation or a long period of transition makes it imperative that we get the broadest base of allies. Remember, we went into Bosnia and Kosovo and into Afghanistan with a lot of allies. Even there, we're still involved and it's still very expensive.

I think it's clear that the military action doesn't require any assistance from others on the part of the United States. I think the real help, resources, manpower, and everything else, will be needed after that.

BROWN: I'll ask this undiplomatically. And I know I'll get a diplomatic answer from you. Has the administration been a bit Pollyannaish about a post-war Iraq, what that would entail, what the risks are, what the costs would be?

MITCHELL: There's an understandable reluctance to discuss it while you're still trying to drum up support for doing it. Because any discussion involves speculation about cost, expense. You just cited the testimony of the commander of the U.S. Army suggesting several hundred thousand troops will be involved.

The estimates range into the many billions of dollars. And, obviously, the administration's concern, understandably, is that the more you talk about that, the less likely you are to get support for the initial decision. However, I do think that it is imperative that there be a complete and forthright discussion, because otherwise, sustaining public support for any action, I think, will be difficult.

I have no doubt, Aaron, that once the bombs start dropping, once American military personnel are in danger of being shot it, the American people will rally around the president. That's traditional, not just in this society, but in others. A long, messy aftermath, though, might see an ebbing of that support, and I think that's where you need full and frank public discussion.

BROWN: Just perhaps a little bit off the wall here. If the administration were to decide on a civilian to run Iraq for a time, would George Mitchell be interested in doing that?

MITCHELL: That really is off the wall, Aaron. I have never given it a moment's thought. It's never occurred to me that the administration might ask me to do it. Right now I don't have any great enthusiasm for the task.

BROWN: A few years in Baghdad isn't on the agenda.

MITCHELL: Not at this time.

BROWN: What makes you most nervous about a post-war occupation, if it comes to that?

MITCHELL: I think the danger to the American personnel, not just in Iraq, but throughout the region, and enflaming of religious and other hatreds toward the United States. It's an alarming situation that all over the world the United States is now seen as a danger to world peace and American interests are threatened.

The fact is, I don't think we have any colonizing interest. I don't think Americans want to run Iraq. I think the administration would be happy to get out as soon as they could. The problem is, they may not be able to. And it may be that this aftermath causes an increase in terrorist activity against the U.S. rather than a reduction, which is, of course, part of the rationale for doing it.

BROWN: Senator, it's always good to talk to you. I won't throw your name into the hat for that job.

MITCHELL: I think you just did, Aaron. BROWN: Oh, did I? Son of a gun. Thank you, Senator George Mitchell, as always.

Coming up on NEWSNIGHT, the latest from Rhode Island. Grand jury now looking into that horrible nightclub fire. We'll take a short break. And around the world NEWSNIGHT will continue.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: We did a double take today when we realized we were reading comments on safety advice and pyrotechnic history from members of the rock group KISS. We're all getting an unexpected education in the customs of the concert business. But for investigators in Rhode Island, it must seem like a five-day crash course.

As it stands now, this is a case of they said, we said, between the club and the band. Today, authorities issued subpoenas to members of the band, Great White, and search crews went back to the ruins looking for one more person who went out last Thursday night and didn't come home.

Here again: CNN's Brian Cabell.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CABELL (voice-over): The pile of charred rubble is five days old, but canine crews and heavy equipment returned to the site of the nightclub Tuesday, searching for any possible human remains. Authorities say they haven't yet accounted for one missing person from last Thursday night's fire that consumed the building within minutes.

The club stage manager claims he warned the club's owners three months ago about bands using pyrotechnics here.

PAUL VANNER, STAGE MANAGER, THE STATION: I said that: I'm having serious issues with these pyro guys. Guaranteed safety. I can't -- you want guaranteed safety, Mike? None. There's no gray area here, Mike, black and white. None. That's the guarantee that I can give you. Certainly, he was certainly like -- seemed to take it to heart.

CABELL: Authorities say the club's owners, Jeff and Michael Derderian, still have not been very cooperative in the investigation.

PATRICK LYNCH, RHODE ISLAND ATTORNEY GENERAL: Days now have passed. Our investigation has not slowed down. And I credit the incredible men and women in uniform for that progress. But I reiterate to all of you again, we're all looking for answers. I believe that the Derderians could offer some that would help all of us, but specifically me, as a chief law enforcement officer, make a determination whether or not this was criminal.

CABELL: The central question that remains: Did the band Great White have permission to use pyrotechnics on Thursday night? Club owners say they did not. The band insists they did. ED MCPHERSON, ATTORNEY FOR GREAT WHITE: The tour manager of the band, Dan Biechele, as a matter of routine with respect to this particular tour, would advance the show approximately a week before each show and discuss with each venue representative the fact that the band wanted to do these particular types of special effects.

In this particular case, he had a lengthy conversation with Mike Derderian, who is one of the owners of the venue, approximately a week before this show, told him exactly what the band wanted to do, and got very specific permission from Mr. Derderian.

CABELL: Although authorities won't confirm it, neighbors say police conducted a search at the home of one of the owners Sunday and Monday, taking away evidence for the grand jury investigation that gets under way on Wednesday.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABELL: Members of the band Great White have been subpoenaed. They're now in California. They're expected back here in Rhode Island by the end of the week. Whether any criminal charges will be filed in this case against anybody, of course, is uncertain at this point.

But what is absolutely certain, Aaron, I would think, is that civil suits will be filed in this case -- Aaron.

BROWN: Thank you, Brian -- Brian Cabell in Rhode Island tonight.

A few stories from around the country, beginning with a deadly shooting spree that went on all day, at it turned out, in Huntsville, Alabama. Four people were killed today after a gunman opened fire this morning at an employment agency, the suspect now in custody. He was arrested after he was cornered in his apartment. He has yet to be identified. Police say the shootings came after an argument over a C.D. player.

The latest on the sniper case: Teenage suspect Lee Malvo says he and John Muhammad were -- quote -- "equals" and that either of them could -- quote -- "call a particular shot on or off," the information coming to light in a document filed this week by Virginia prosecutors.

A symbolic move today involving homeland security: The Coast Guard officially moved from the Transportation Department to the new Department of Homeland Security. Cabinet secretaries Tom Ridge, who gets them, and Norm Mineta, who lost them, took part in the changeover, which featured color guards and Sousa marches.

And Chicago's Mayor Richard Daley swamped three little-known challengers to win a fifth term today. Daley got nearly 80 percent of the ballots counted. Only about a third of the people, I think, in Chicago who could vote did. His closest opponent got 14 percent.

Still ahead on NEWSNIGHT tonight: after the tragedy. Miles O'Brien joins us with a story of families of two of the shuttle astronauts, how they are doing -- that and more as NEWSNIGHT continues on CNN. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: And coming up on NEWSNIGHT: coping with disaster, the story of two of the shuttle astronaut families.

A short break and we're right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: A few developments today in the shuttle Columbia investigation: NASA confirmed that a piece of the shuttle was found in West Texas and that that piece came from an upper part of the left wing near the fuselage.

NASA officials also said -- this is remarkable -- that a digital video videotape shot from the flight deck has been found. It recorded about 14 minutes of Columbia's return to Earth. It shows the back of the crew's helmets, most of the flight deck. The tape stops about 15 minutes before Columbia broke up. It will be released to the public, NASA says, after family members of the crew have an opportunity to view it.

The world has spent so much time focusing on those final minutes in the lives of the Columbia even astronauts, but the families, of course, have so much more than those last few minutes to remember. They have years of marriage, the hours spent playing with the kids. And for two families, they have Sunday mornings at the same neighborhood church to remember, two widows who now have each other to lean on, the wives of Commander Rick Husband and payload manager Michael Anderson.

Their story reported tonight by CNN's Miles O'Brien.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN (voice-over): A little more than three weeks since she lost the love of her life, Evelyn Husband is drawing deep on her faith and somehow getting through an unbearable tragedy.

(on camera): How are things going?

EVELYN HUSBAND, WIFE OF COMMANDER RICK HUSBAND: They're going OK. Some days are great -- or some hours are great. I wouldn't say a whole day is great.

O'BRIEN (voice-over): The dark moments come when the kids are tucked in and she is alone with her thoughts of that morning, the 1st of February, landing day for Rick and his six crewmates.

E. HUSBAND: The whole time, I'm just very excited, absolutely no anxiety, because nothing had ever happened at landing before. So, launch is, I think, more stressful just because of Challenger. So, we've all seen how it could not go well. So...

O'BRIEN (on camera): You figured you'd been through it.

E. HUSBAND: Exactly.

O'BRIEN (voice-over): But exactly when the time came, there was no landing and suddenly she was surrounded by ashen faces.

E. HUSBAND: That was the first sensation I had in my stomach, just -- I just thought, you just get that panicked feeling. And I just thought, something's wrong. And I looked over at Rick's brother, who's a pilot and I said, "Keith, I think there's something wrong."

And he said, "I do, too."

O'BRIEN: And so began the longest day of Evelyn Husband's life. It was the end of everything, she 12-year-old Laura and 7-year-old Matthew called normal. She gets by with help from a legion of friends, giving whatever she can to her extended family.

(on camera): There's a lot said about this family that a crew becomes. And it is real, isn't it, especially in this case?

E. HUSBAND: Absolutely. And as difficult as this is to convey to all of my friends, there is nobody else on the planet that can fill that space than the crew families, because, with them, we all completely and totally empathize with each other.

O'BRIEN (voice-over): She is especially close to Sandy Anderson, wife of mission specialist Mike Anderson. Rick and he were in the same astronaut class, belong to the same church, live a block apart.

(on camera): How are you shoring each other up?

SANDY ANDERSON, WIFE OF MIKE ANDERSON: We all have a tremendous amount of respect and love for each other. We've been together so long, they really actually do feel like family. And we'll have a bond now that's just unbreakable.

O'BRIEN (voice-over): They've been on a forced march, from funeral to funeral, with still more to come. This past Friday, Evelyn eulogized Rick in his home town of Amarillo, Texas.

E. HUSBAND: Rick was a wonderful man, a terrific father, son and brother. And he was my best friend.

O'BRIEN: Between the eulogies and the tears, there has been time to think whether the risks were worth it in the end.

ANDERSON: This is something he wanted to do. He probably understood the risks better than I did. And he was willing to take those, so I was willing to support him. And, of course, you never think that's going to happen.

E. HUSBAND: I just -- I cannot be angry. Everything went -- if I had known the ending, I would have written it the exact same way as it all occurred. So I can't be angry.

O'BRIEN: Rick Husband was a family man in every sense of the word. Before he left on his mission, he left tapes for his children, prayers, and a few words for each day.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICK HUSBAND, NASA ASTRONAUT: Lord, we love you and we ask this in Jesus' name. Amen.

OK, Laura. So, it won't be long before I get to see you, whether it's today or tomorrow. And I love you very, very much.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: During the mission, Rick was, by all accounts, beaming. Evelyn sent him a wakeup call sung by Laura's choir. There were buoyant e-mails and a private teleconference. Everyone signed off with, "I love you."

(on camera): Your strength is -- it bowls me over. And I'm sure a lot of people have told you that. When -- does it fail you ever?

E. HUSBAND: Oh, sure. But, I mean, the thing that has not failed, I have not felt hopelessness. And I haven't felt that once. And I'm being very honest about that. And I'm very thankful for that. There have been times through this that I don't think I can take it anymore. The pain is horrible.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: I asked Evelyn and Sandy if they're following the investigation very closely. And they said they are not. They're not interested, they say, in the daily speculation that's been going around this investigation.

They want to know the concrete answers. Eventually, they feel confident there will be those answers. And they want to learn them when they become evident -- Aaron.

BROWN: Well, we're all with them on that.

Let's talk about few other pieces that we came across today. Beyond the sort of wonderment that this digital video survived the breakup and all, does it have any probative value, as the lawyers would say?

O'BRIEN: No, no probative value at all. It happens before the trouble begins. It's a very innocuous video, for those who are accustomed to seeing this kind of thing. And that's probably why we're going to see it so quickly, is that it really doesn't have any value to the investigation.

BROWN: Let's talk about, then, this piece that was identified as being a left wing piece near the fuselage. Its import is?

O'BRIEN: Well, you got to -- first of all, its location is one thing you've got to look at, Aaron. It's the far-westerly piece now. And the farther we go west, the closer, presumably, we're getting to the source of the trouble on Columbia. The fact that this appears to be from the left wing and is in the far-west location certainly matches all of the other data we've received so far indicating that the trouble was on the left side. Does it take us right to that point where the problem began? Way too early to say.

BROWN: Well, Miles, thank you for your work -- again, Miles O'Brien in Houston.

We'll take a short break.

When we come back on NEWSNIGHT, we'll check tomorrow morning's papers from around the country and around the world.

And later, in "Segment Seven": signs of the times, getting the anti-war message across with humor.

From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Next on NEWSNIGHT, we'll check tomorrow morning's papers. It's still tonight.

This is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Louisiana is sinking?

Secretary of State Powell back home -- that story begins our look at a number of stories from around the world. He returned tonight from Seoul and the inauguration of South Korea's new president. The two met earlier today, Secretary Powell saying they agreed the standoff with North Korea should be handled by all the governments concerned, not just the United States. Mr. Powell went on to say it looks like North Korea has yet to restart its plant for making weapons-grade plutonium, something the secretary called a wise choice.

More aftershocks today from a major earthquake in western China: five people killed today, bringing the death toll to at least 266. Upwards of 2,000 people are hurt and an untold amount of damage done. Much of the construction here was anything but sturdy in the first place. Now it's mostly rubble, leaving a lot of people homeless and bitter cold.

And in case you think the Middle East is just a sea of hot sand, look at this. A rare snowstorm covered Israel, Lebanon and Jordan in white, at least a foot of snow in some places, roads closed, schools shut down. It's quiet. People aren't killing each other. And in that regard, the storm qualifies as something of a minor miracle -- or maybe not so minor.

All right, morning papers from around the country and around the world, beginning with Chicago. We mentioned this earlier, "Chicago Sun- Times" -- still waiting on "The Chicago Tribune" -- "Daley Wins Big." And he did. About 80 -- well, 71 percent of the vote on this edition of "The Sun-Times." We'll see where it is tomorrow, but, anyway, Mayor Daley yet again.

Paula mentioned this in the promo. Congress is going to look at SUVs and its "USA Today"'s big story: "Crash Tests May Make SUVs Even More Deadly." The thing is that they make the front end so brittle that if they hit another car, they crush it. It's tough to be an SUV, isn't it?

"Miami Herald," this is interesting to me -- to me interesting, may not be to you. We'll find out, won't we? Look at how a newspaper deals with its region. The lead story in "The Miami Herald": "Bomb Blast in Venezuela," a lot of Central and South Americans in the Miami area, aimed at Colombia and Spain. This is the ongoing mess in Venezuela.

There was something -- I didn't like it that much. New Zealand: an act of terrorism, or at least the fear of an act of terrorism affecting the America's Cup: "Cyanide Letter Threat to the Cup." It was sent to an Australian official in New Zealand. And that's got a lot of people nervous there.

All right, how much time we got? OK, "Le Monde." Do you read French? Fiftieth anniversary of Stalin's death, why is that the lead? Down in the corner: the story of a chef. We won't make you read it in French.

Fortunately, we have the English version of the story from "The Guardian": "Top Chef Kills Himself After Losing Points in a Food Guide." This is true. This is one of France's most famous chefs. And his restaurant was downgraded by one of those rating services. And that, apparently, and lot of other things, he decided to take his own life. It's caused a major deal among foodies, food critics, chefs and the rest in France.

We out of time? OK.

We'll take a look at -- it's funny how that worked. Next on NEWSNIGHT: the anti-war movement, with a touch of humor. Imagine that.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Finally from us tonight, someone once said that true wit has a grave intention. There's plenty of both in this story about people who want to make you think and will, no doubt, make you laugh.

Here's Jeanne Moos.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Whether you love them or hate them, you've got to admit those anti-war protesters have a way with words. PROTESTERS (singing): We all live in a military state.

MOOS: Not those words. We mean the war of words on their signs.

PROTESTERS: No more war!

MOOS: Oil is a favorite topic: How many lives per gallon? Read between the pipelines. How did our oil get under their sand?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're hooked. Keep drinking up, America.

MOOS: Or how about this one?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What if Iraq's major export was broccoli?

MOOS: That was just one of a couple hundred favorite signs e- mailed in by listeners at the request of radio station WNYC.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fight plaque, not Iraq.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Read my apocalypse.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dior, not war.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Osama bin forgotten?

MOOS: Not as forgotten as that quaint old standby, make love, not war. Nowadays, they write, war is like, so, 20th century.

PATRICIA FRIEDLAND, ANTI-WAR ORGANIZER: As you were walking along, you were just constantly kind of chuckling.

MOOS: And it wasn't just at the New York rally. In Australia, "No War" was composed by women wearing no clothes. Anti-war groups plaster their favorite signs all over their Web sites. Instead of got milk, it's, got oil? Stop mad cowboy disease, blondes against dumb wars.

JESSE EPSTEIN, ANTI-WAR ORGANIZER: And it's not like an angry mob yelling and chanting. It's something that's approachable, because it's funny.

MOOS: Often at the president's expense. Dude, where's my war?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: W., you are not the man your father wasn't.

MOOS: Draft the Bush twins. Empty warhead found in White House. The next war would be Dubya Dubya III.

But President Bush isn't the only target. Australia's prime minister was depicted as a dog being led around by President Bush. The president's axis of evil speech provoked a lot of spinoffs. And how can you resist singing to this sign?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (singing): When you least expect it...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (singing): You're arrested. It's your lucky day.

MOOS: Even CNN found itself on a couple of signs. This one left us not knowing what to think.

If you're looking for a sign from above, there was one. And what would a protest be without duct tape? Demonstrators even made an anti-Bush message out of police horse droppings.

STEVE AULT, ANTI-WAR ORGANIZER: I don't know quite how it was assembled, but it was on the ground.

MOOS: And if you find all of this revolting...

(on camera): Don't get mad at us. We didn't write all those Bush-bashing signs. We wrote this one: sign language, sign language, sign language, sign language!

(voice-over): Even if sign language doesn't always translate.

Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Good to have you with us tonight. We're back tomorrow at 10:00 Eastern time. We hope you'll join us then.

Until then, good night for all of us at NEWSNIGHT.

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