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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown
Discussion with Former Assistant Secretary of State James Rubin
Aired March 04, 2003 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, HOST: And, good evening, everyone. The theory of the day is that the United States, unable to round up the necessary votes, will walk away from a second U.N. resolution. We'll pull it off the table rather than risk losing. The administration will argue it never really needed a second resolution, that the original Resolution 1441 gives it the right to wage war in and of itself.
This view is not shared in many other places on the globe, from what we can tell, including much of this country, which continues to want a second resolution even if the administration does not. If that's how this plays out, it will be a sad ending and a stunning failure on both the administration side and the Security Council side as well.
The five permanent members in the post- Cold War era could not come up with an acceptable solution, a compromise to Iraq. It's a disaster for those who believe in the importance of the U.N. itself. They will have to take a huge leap, the U.N. will, towards irrelevancy, and every government involved, including our own, will share some of the blame.
On to the news of the day and there is an awful lot dealing with Iraq. It begins at the White House, an impatient White House. Chris Burns has the duty tonight. Chris, start us off with a headline.
CHRIS BURNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, good evening, Aaron. That impatience appearing to be increasingly explicit if you listen to officials here. Could we be not weeks but perhaps days away from armed conflict? Could it be time very soon to give Saddam Hussein an ultimatum?
BROWN: Chris, thank you. Back to you at the top tonight. A key question, of course, is the military ready if and when the president makes the call? They've had to do some adjustments. Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon. Jamie, a headline.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, the marriage of convenience between the United States and Turkey is off. There is still some courtship going on, but basically Pentagon officials tell me they're over it, it's time to move on with the war plan.
BROWN: Jaime, we'll get details coming up.
A deadly terror attack today in the Philippines. Maria Ressa has been covering that. Maria, a headline. MARIA RESSA, CNN JAKARTA BUREAU CHIEF: Aaron, two explosions followed by several bomb threats and false alarms aggravated the mood of insecurity in the southern Philippines and put the focus on a group officials here say have set up training camps for al Qaeda.
BROWN: Maria, thank you.
The latest now on Khalid Shaikh Mohammed and what, if anything, he is saying. Jean Meserve is on that for us. So, Jeanne, a headline tonight.
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, according to government officials, what he is saying has not been very useful. But some of the names they uncovered when they captured Mohammed matched the names of individuals already under surveillance right here in the U.S.
BROWN: Jeanne, thank you. Back to you and the rest shortly.
Also coming up tonight on NEWSNIGHT, the fourth of March, the attorney general on Capitol Hill tonight. We'll take a look at that very thorny question since the 9/11 attacks. Are we trading in our civil liberties for security? It seems important to look at that again because the Justice Department is preparing a new bill to expand its powers.
And it has had the rough feel of a home movie. A family visits the World Trade Center years before 9/11. But some families of the victims say the intent behind this video is nothing but sinister. We'll show it to you tonight.
Lots to do in the hour ahead. We begin with the president. He talked today about Medicare. About a proposal to reshape Medicare in a way that could fundamentally change the lives of 40 million Americans today, potentially millions more in the years to come. Hugely important political dynamite, and as it turns out, a footnote for tonight. Because even though the backdrop to the podium read better benefits, the backdrop to just about every story from here on out is the now almost certain war.
Is it coming sooner than expected? Has the president already made up his mind? There were hints today in the diplomacy and in the rhetoric. We start things off with the rhetoric from the White House tonight. CNN's Chris Burns.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BURNS (voice-over): If it isn't a war ultimatum yet, it's increasingly looking like one. Both for Saddam Hussein and the United Nations.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I went to the United Nations to remind them that that body has a responsibility to make sure its words mean something. I reminded them that for 12 long years the United Nations has asked Saddam to disarm because he is dangerous. BURNS: The Bush administration still working the diplomatic window. Though working two, as if it is about to slam that window shut.
COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: We're not talking a long period of time. I don't want to get pinned down on days or weeks or a week. But certainly I think next week we would have to give very serious consideration as to what the next step should be.
BURNS: Despite Iraq's destruction of Al Samoud missiles, the White House lists tons of anthrax, nerve agents, and munitions it says Iraq has yet to account for. The administration continues lobbying for another U.N. Security Council resolution authorizing war and waiting to see what chief weapons inspector Hans Blix reports Friday. But White House officials say they would likely avoid a vote if they still risk a veto by permanent members, France, China or Russia.
The administration contends existing Resolution 1441 is enough to justify military action against Baghdad. So when an ultimatum for Saddam Hussein?
ARI FLEISCHER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I think it's too soon to say. The president continues to hope, one, that this can be settled peacefully. But, two, let's see what the outcome is up in New York, let's see what happens in the Blix report, let's see what happens after the second vote takes place.
BURNS: Meanwhile, the president is to meet in Washington this week with General Tommy Franks, who will lead a war against Iraq. Military planners say they can attack with or without a Turkish-based U.S. force.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNS: President Bush also plans to meet with an envoy of Pope John Paul II, who has been arguing that a war isn't morally justified. The Bush administration, however, arguing that this time it is -- Aaron.
BROWN: That meeting is tomorrow, correct, at the White House?
BURNS: Yes, that's right. He will meeting some time in the afternoon. The Bush administration arguing today at least Ari Fleischer saying that a war could be justified. It would be morally unjustified not to go after Saddam Hussein because he could pass weapons to terrorist groups. That being the claim of the Bush administration.
BROWN: And just from what you can pick up today, was there any frustration at the White House or was it -- did they understand the nature of the times and the moment that this major speech on Medicare reform gets pushed off our front page and we suspect most front pages because of Iraq?
BURNS: I don't believe so, I think it's something that the Bush administration does believe that it is getting attention. It's obviously getting a lot of criticism from Democrats saying that it is privatizing and selling off Medicare and selling the elderly down the road. But the Bush administration saying that this needs to be addressed, it has to be addressed, because we have 40 million retirees now.
We could have 80 million in the next several years. So it is something to act on very quickly and in a bipartisan fashion.
BROWN: Chris, thank you. Chris Burns at the White House tonight.
Now to the United Nations, the tempo there picking up considerably. Two milestones, important days just lie ahead. One on Friday, the other some time next week. And there is a growing sense that between now and then the United States will either make the final decision to try to ram through another Security Council resolution or, as they say in diplo (ph) speak, punt.
Until then there are many things in play: the Russians, the French, Hans Blix. And reporting for us, Richard Roth -- Richard.
RICHARD ROTH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, they haven't agreed behind closed doors in the Security Council chamber. They haven't agreed in the hallways. So, today, the Security Council said, let's do lunch.
It was a prior arranged scheduled monthly lunch for the Security Council, but you could even see some tensions, as the various ambassadors piled in, particularly Pakistan and Mexico talking to each other, with Mexico putting its hand on the Pakistani ambassador's shoulder. There is still hardened positions regarding this proposed U.S. resolution. Listen to the differences as said by Russia and the United States on the resolution.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN NEGROPONTE, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: We put down what we think to be a very reasonable resolution that concludes that Iraq is not complying with Resolution 1441 and prior disarmament resolutions. And we think that it's time for the Council to face that decision. That is to say, to decide that Iraq is not in compliance and has not taken advantage of this final opportunity offered to it under paragraph two of 1441.
SERGEY LAVROV, RUSSIAN AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: We can only say that we cannot support a resolution, and I don't see how the Security Council can support a resolution which would, in fact, mean a green light to start a war.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROTH: Many of the ambassadors are going to look to the next briefing by Hans Blix this Friday. It could be the final briefing. He updates his report file last weekend, in which he said Iraq's cooperation was rather limited. He is going to note Iraq's cooperation on the destruction of Al Samoud 2 missiles, so far 19 of them.
There is a story in the "London Independent Newspaper" (ph) tomorrow that says and alleges that Hans Blix is going to report that Iraq times out its cooperation according to imminent Security Council resolutions and resolutions and meetings. Meanwhile, the spokesman for the U.N. weapons inspector says, no comment. Mr. Blix is still rewriting his report, his update. No official confirmation of that -- Aaron.
BROWN: Well, I spent much of today trying to figure out what the Russians, in fact, are saying. Are they saying they will veto this resolution?
ROTH: They're stopping short of saying that, though some believe -- Foreign Minister Ivanov said that in London. He just said we reserve the right. We could, we might, and that abstaining is not a proper position to take. But we heard this before in other debates, where countries talk tough then and sometimes abstain. It's too soon to tell.
BROWN: Thank you, Richard. Richard Roth over at the U.N. tonight.
On the military side of things today, the Bush administration turned up the heat on Turkey. You'll recall the Turkish parliament giving a nod to the vast majority of Turks who did not want to see their country used as a launching pad for American troops invading Iraq from the north. It shows no signs yet of rethinking that vote.
The administration today gave them some reasons to change their minds. The White House saying the Turks would no longer get even a portion of the $15 billion in aid, not one nickel.
In the meantime, the Pentagon is moving ahead with plan B. Reporting for us, Jamie McIntyre.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE (voice-over): After weeks of hoping that Turkey would allow some 62,000 troops to use its bases, the Pentagon has basically given up, sources say. Because the decision was the result of a democratic process and by a NATO ally, the U.S. is not complaining too loudly.
POWELL: Our military authorities have options that will still make it absolutely certain that we'll be able to perform this military mission in an efficient and effective way and achieve our objectives.
MCINTYRE: In fact, Pentagon officials say the loss of Turkish bases means the war could come sooner because there would be no need to wait several more weeks to unload transport ships and prepare Turkish facilities to receive U.S. troops. Pentagon sources say the Army's fourth infantry division, which is still at Fort Hood, Texas, may not be deployed. Its role filled by the helicopter-born troops of the 101st airborne division now arriving in Kuwait. And the ships carrying the fourth ID's equipment may not be sent on the long trip through the Suez Canal and the Persian Gulf, where they would have to unload it already over crowded ports in Kuwait. Instead, they could just be brought home. With another wave of B-52 bombers in England, and the departure of big deck helicopter carriers for the region, sources say Central Commander General Tommy Franks will tell President Bush Wednesday, in what could be the final pre-war briefing at the White House, that all is ready once he gives the order.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: Now, just tonight in a radio interview with a local affiliate here, WMAL Radio in Washington, General Myers, the chairman of the joint chiefs, admitted that it was going to be more difficult and more costly without that Turkish northern option. However, he said, "It's too soon to write off what kind of support we might get from Turkey." An indication that the U.S. is still hopeful that even if they don't get permission to deploy all those troops, they may get permission for over-flight rights, or to base perhaps other smaller aspects in Turkey.
Some level of cooperation. But not the big package, and not the big package of economic aid -- Aaron.
BROWN: Jamie, before you get away, is there anything on the North Korea front after yesterday's bit of stuff in the air?
MCINTYRE: Well, we learned a little bit more about the incident. For one thing, we learned that the planes, the MiGs that intercepted that U.S. reconnaissance plane were carrying heat-seeking missiles. So the question of whether they locked on with the radar really didn't matter because they didn't have radar-guided missiles. Still a very provocative act.
And we also learned today that plans to send two dozen long-range bombers, including B-1s and B-52s to Guam, something that was planned before this incident took place, those deployment orders went out late last week. And the U.S. will moving those planes. But they went to great lengths to say that is not an aggressive act it is merely a prudent measure to bolster the defenses in that area -- Aaron.
BROWN: Jamie, thank you. Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon.
A bit more now on the diplomacy in Iraq, current trials and tribulations for the White House. And we suppose the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) of it over the last couple of years. Joining us tonight, former Assistant Secretary of State, Jamie Rubin. It's good to see you.
What do you think the Russians are doing here, by the way? I'm trying to figure it out. I suppose others are.
JAMES RUBIN, FMR. ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE: I don't think Putin knows really what he's going to do. I think they're hoping and praying that they won't have to exercise a veto, because the administration won't be able to muster the nine or 10 votes they need for a positive vote. And they're hoping just to abstain, or the administration will not have the votes and never put this resolution to a vote.
They would like to avoid a veto. Putin would like to avoid breaking faith directly with President Bush, I suspect.
BROWN: What are the implications you think of the United States walking away from a second resolution at this point, both in terms of world opinion and on the body of the U.N. itself?
RUBIN: Well, I think from the beginning, from last fall, the administration was very careful not to say that it needed a second resolution. All the original Resolution 1441 they're now citing said is, if there is a material breach, the Security Council should meet and decide what to do. And no resolution is fine by their standpoint.
What they did in the new resolution was respond to genuine political needs of Tony Blair and Britain and Prime Minister Asnar in Spain, who really could use the second resolution because their publics are overwhelmingly against it.
BROWN: Walking away from this, doesn't this just hang Tony Blair out?
RUBIN: Well, I think Tony Blair knows what in the end what will determine his fate is how the war goes. And even the tabloid newspapers that have been vitriolic against him to date, they will have to change course if there's a war beginning, because they will support British troops.
Britain, you know this is a warrior nation. And their tabloids are going to go for the troops. So if the war is short and successful, this will all be forgotten. If, however, this is a lot messier and a lot longer than people have predicted, then the lack of a second resolution will really hurt them.
BROWN: Back to the question of the second resolution in the United Nations. Do you think the United Nations itself has been damaged by the process that's been playing out and the way it's been playing out?
RUBIN: Well, it's a tough call. You know, last fall people were worried the administration wasn't even going to go to the U.N. at all, and that would have been true damage. The United Nations system did work, the discussion about whether to go to war took place through the U.N. system. A positive vote, a unanimous vote took place.
You know there are some questions about whether the second resolution should have been sought. And if they don't get a majority, it doesn't pass, I think people will wonder if that was a mistake, and that's a dangerous precedent for the future. But in the end, I think it's fair to say, unless there is some dramatic change in the next few days, this is not going to be a war with the legitimacy.
It will have the legality of the U.N. resolution. The last one gives them plenty of international legal standing. In fact, more legal standing to act than when we in the Clinton administration acted in Kosovo. But what they won't have is that stamp of legitimacy that they sought, that Tony Blair wanted, that Asnar in Spain wanted.
BROWN: Just a quick one here. I had the feeling on Friday that the rules changed a bit and the administration started saying again that disarmament itself was not enough, that Saddam has to go. Is that my ear, or other people heard it that way?
RUBIN: No, you heard it right. And I have to tell you, if they were seeking seriously a second resolution, that was not the wisest diplomatic statement. Because there's no other country in the Security Council, Britain included, who supports that. The British position is very clear that if there's disarmament there's no war.
And for the White House to suggest that this isn't about disarmament but about something else, I think undermines the chances of getting that resolution. They may have concluded by last Friday they weren't going to get it anyway.
BROWN: It's nice to see you. Thanks for coming in. Appreciate it.
RUBIN: Nice to see you. Thanks.
BROWN: See you again soon, I hope.
Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, more details about a big fish, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, and what information he may have revealed as a result of his capture.
Later, amazing and tragic home videos. A blueprint for terror in New York. This is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: The administration took another couple of victory laps today over the capture of Khalid Shaikh Mohammed. The president on the stump, the attorney general on the Hill. It's hard to blame them. The arrest was certainly a huge blow to al Qaeda.
We learned a few more scant details as well about how the interrogation is going, along with some potentially chilling details about associates of Mohammed now being watched in the United States. Reporting for us, CNN's Jeanne Meserve.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MESERVE (voice-over): The capture of Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, trumpeted by President Bush.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The man who masterminded the September 11 attacks is no longer a problem to the United States of America.
MESERVE: Mohammed, in U.S. custody at an undisclosed location, is talking to authorities. But government sources say so far what he's told them isn't very useful. Sources say computers and papers seized when Mohammed was arrested contained the names of hundreds of people who could be al Qaeda operatives. Government sources say so far they have matched about a dozen of the names to individuals in the U.S. already under surveillance by the FBI.
Also on a computer, information about possible terrorist plots and references to the United States, though no blueprints say sources.
JOHN ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL: The CIA and FBI are cooperating thoroughly to share information from the capture, analyze that intelligence, and coordinate follow-up operations.
MESERVE: Apprehended with Mohammed in the raid in (UNINTELLIGIBLE), a second significant al Qaeda figure, say U.S. officials. Mustafa Ahmed al Hasawi (ph) is alleged to have ply supplied money to Mohammed Atta, the leader of the 9/11 hijackers through bank accounts in the United Arab Emirates.
A February 13 raid in Quetta, Pakistan failed to net Mohammed, but U.S. officials say the son of Sheikh Omar Abdul Rahman (ph) was apprehended. Rahman, the so-called blind cleric, is in jail for plotting to blow up U.S. landmarks.
Meanwhile, unsealed (ph) Tuesday, charges against two Yemeni men arrested in Frankfurt, Germany on January 10. One of them is a Muslim cleric, Sheikh Mohammed Alihasan Al Moyad (ph).
ROSLYNN MAUSKOPF, U.S. ATTORNEY: Al Moyad (ph) met with bin Laden and provided over $20 million to al Qaeda.
MESERVE: Much of the money, says the Justice Department, raised at this Brooklyn mosque.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MESERVE: U.S. officials say that since Mohammed was taken into custody they have seen an increase in intelligence chatter. They are not sure what that signifies. It could be that his associates are discussing his arrests. It could be they are planning a terrorist attack, or it could mean they are on the move to elude possible capture -- Aaron.
BROWN: Now let's talk about these people in the United States and the ones under surveillance. Do we hear anything that suggests that arrests there are imminent?
MESERVE: Arrests are a possibility, but they are certainly not necessarily going to come. One reason is that it may be more useful at this point to keep these people under surveillance and see where they go and who they associate with. Also, you need to have grounds to arrest someone, and being a name on a list is not adequate grounds.
BROWN: Thank you Jeanne. Jeanne Meserve in Washington.
The capture of Khalid Shaikh Mohammed is also raising more than just cheer and chill. It's raising hopes in the intelligence community that by shaking the al Qaeda tree, out may fall Osama bin Laden and other top lieutenants. The story in "TIME" magazine's online edition tonight lays out Mohammed's last moments of freedom and some fascinating evidence of bin Laden's whereabouts.
Tim McGirk shares a byline on the story. And Tim joins us tonight from Islamabad. It's good to have you with us. They believe Mohammed knew or knows where bin Laden is. Which is it?
TIM MCGIRK, ISLAMABAD BUREAU CHIEF, "TIME" MAGAZINE: Well, they think that he's got a pretty good idea of where he is or where he was until very recently. But they also think that Osama bin Laden has probably got news of the arrest and that he's on the move again. So this is really to their benefit because they think that once Osama is moving they can flush him out and it will be a lot easier to grab him.
BROWN: And they believe he is still somewhere in Pakistan, correct?
MCGIRK: That's right. Up until now, the Pakistanis have said they didn't think he was here. And officially they're still saying that. But we just heard up in (UNINTELLIGIBLE) that they not only think he's in Pakistan but they managed to narrow it down. They said that he's probably in northern Pakistan, either in the tribal area or maybe even in (UNINTELLIGIBLE), the same city where they captured Khalid Shaikh Mohammed on Saturday.
BROWN: In the piece that's on the online -- "TIME" magazine online tonight -- you talked about some letters that Osama wrote to members of his family. Tell us a bit about that, what you know of their contents.
MCGIRK: Well, again, this is just from Pakistani intelligence sources. But they say that wherever Osama is, he's not with his four wives and his many children. They think that Osama's family had escaped probably pretty early on during the U.S. bombing campaign in Afghanistan, and that they escaped straight across the border to Iran. And that that's probably where they're still hiding now.
And so these letters presumably were somehow smuggled out through various different messengers, probably through Afghanistan, taking the smuggler routes through the south of the country. And that they were intercepted along the way to his family.
BROWN: So these Pakistani intelligence sources have seen these letters, they have read these letters?
MCGIRK: They've seen them, they've read them, and they passed them on to the CIA. So I think both the Pakistanis and the Americans now are just combing through those letters for any indication about what sort of health Osama is in, who his partners might be, and, above all, where he's hiding.
BROWN: And American intelligence accepting of this notion that the family is in Iran? That Iran and the Republican Guard let them in? Or are they somewhat in the dark or at least suspicious of this? MCGIRK: Well, I think that they're pretty certain that back in the early days of the fighting when the United States first began to attack al Qaeda and Taliban in Afghanistan, that there was a convoy of about 40 al Qaeda vehicles that crossed over the border into Iran. And nothing moves in Iran without the knowledge of the government there.
There are certain elements of the government, like the revolutionary guard. So I think that in that case the Iranians were probably aware that there were these al Qaeda crossing over and that they probably did include his family.
BROWN: Tim, thanks. Tim McGirk from "TIME" magazine. His piece is on the online edition of "TIME" if you want to check that out after the program.
MCGIRK: Thank you.
BROWN: I suppose you can check it out now. We prefer you wait until the end of the program. You can do so.
Another name to take in tonight, when talking about the war on terror. Though it is unlikely that William P. Hide (ph) saw himself as part of that battle, he was a Baptist missionary. Twenty-five years he lived in the Philippines. Today, in a bombing at the airport in Davao City, he and a lot of other people died there. The report from CNN's Maria Ressa.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RESSA (voice-over): When it started to rain, scores of people waiting to greet passengers on an arriving flight took shelter here. Shortly after the plane landed, the first more powerful bomb exploded, shattering the roof and killing at least 20 people. The bomb was hidden, officials say, in an unattended bag.
FLEISCHER: The president condemns the terrorist act and pledges cooperation and assistance to ensure that those who are responsible are brought to justice.
RESSA: Philippine President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo also condemned what she called a brazen act of terrorism, which should not go unpunished. No one has claimed responsibility, but the Philippine military says it suspects rebels from the MILF.
The (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Islamic Liberation Fund, the largest Muslim separatist group in the Philippines, were behind the attacks. Intelligence officials from more than six countries say the MILF has established training camps for al Qaeda. An MILF spokesman denies any involvement in the attacks.
Fighting has escalated after the Philippine military attacked a key MILF stronghold three weeks ago. Since then, the military has blamed a series of bombings and raids on the MILF.
(on camera): This comes at a period of controversy about the role U.S. troops will play in the Southern Philippines. An advance team of U.S. special forces arrived last month. The U.S. says it will do all it can to help on the Philippines in its war of terror.
Maria Ressa, CNN, Manila.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Coming up on NEWSNIGHT: cops under fire, top brass in San Francisco arraigned after a controversial indictment. We'll have details on that in a moment.
Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: The latest now on a hard-to-believe story about law and disorder: Practically the entire top echelon of the San Francisco Police Department, from the chief on down, has been in court pleading not guilty to indictments on a range of charges, from conspiracy to obstruction of justice to assault. And how did this all begin? With some off-duty cops, a couple of other guys, a scuffle outside a bar over a bag of steak fajitas.
Here is CNN's Rusty Dornin.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A solemn procession of the indicted, the march to their arraignment led by San Francisco Police Chief Earl Sanders. Each one of the defendants pronounced their innocence.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not guilty, Your Honor.
DORNIN: It all stemmed from an alleged attack on two men by three off-duty police officers last fall. The victims claimed the officers beat them and stole their steak fajitas. Those three cops face assault charges. What did or didn't happen with the investigation after the alleged assault has toppled seven other high- ranking San Francisco police charged with obstruction of justice, including the assistant chief, Alex Fagan, who is the father of one of the alleged attackers.
Defense attorneys said they were shocked to read the indictments.
JIM COLLINS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It is the most pathetic indictment I have ever seen. It is ridiculous. It is absolutely ridiculous that the command staff of the San Francisco Police Department have to be removed in this time of war with Iraq and terrorism over this bunch of garbage.
DORNIN: District attorney Terence Hallinan stood by the indictments, proclaiming no one is above the law in San Francisco.
TERENCE HALLINAN, DISTRICT ATTORNEY: These specific allegations of assaults by off-duty police officers and subsequent cover-up by high-ranking police command officials are extremely distressing. They strike at the heart of our civil liberties.
DORNIN: Nine of the officers agreed to be suspended without pay. Chief Sanders has taken medical leave.
JOHN BURRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It's a horrible way to use a grand jury and to disrupt a police agency and/or to destroy a man's career who has been honorable in his police efforts for over 30-some years. So it's too cavalier for me.
DORNIN: With careers and pensions on the line, the majority of the accused pushed for speedy trials, hoping to, one way or another, quickly close this chapter of San Francisco's history.
Rusty Dornin, CNN, San Francisco.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: A few other stories from around the country briefly tonight, beginning with the resignation at the Department of Health and Human Services in Washington. Janet Rehnquist, the daughter of the Supreme Court chief justice, will leave her post as inspector general at that department this week. Ms. Rehnquist has been under investigation by several government agencies for allegations of professional misconduct.
Senate investigators say she delayed an audit of the Florida state pension system when she should not have. Ms. Rehnquist denies doing anything wrong.
Update now on a controversy regarding the Pledge of Allegiance: The 9th Circuit Court of Appeals today put on hold its ruling that bans the pledge for public classrooms because of the phrase "under God." Without that stay, schools in nine Western states would have had to stop saying the pledge, or at least changing it, beginning next week. Now the schools have 90 days to appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court. And that will certainly happen.
A terrible ski accident in Breckenridge, Colorado, could lead to charges of manslaughter. A British skier on vacation ran into another skier on the slopes on Sunday, knocked him into a tree. The man died hours later. Prosecutors expect to make a charging decision in the case -- it doesn't happen often on the slopes -- by Thursday .
Still to come on NEWSNIGHT: the conflict between personal freedoms and safety, the possibility of a new Patriot Act and what it would mean.
This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: And next on NEWSNIGHT: the attorney general and questions about a newer, stronger -- but would it be better? -- Patriot Act.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: In the post-9/11 period, those lofty discussions of the conflicts between civil liberties and national security seemed to many to be a bit hollow. Without tighter security, there would be no liberties, they argued.
Now a year and a half later, that battle is being joined again as the Justice Department prepares to update and expand upon the powers granted under what was called the Patriot Act. The draft of these proposals was leaked. It has not been formerly sent to Congress, but the draft is floating around out there and, even in rough form, has raised some serious questions from both the right and the left about where the Justice Department appears to be heading.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN (voice-over): Giving the government more police powers, a new version of the Patriot Act, was not something the attorney general wanted to talk about.
JOHN ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL: Until I have something that I think is appropriate, I don't know that I should engage in some discussion about something that I -- we don't believe is appropriate.
BROWN: But two senators, Senator Leahy of Vermont and Feingold of Wisconsin, told the attorney general they were furious that this 83-page draft proposal, officially called the Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003, was even being circulated without congressional input.
SEN. PATRICK LEAHY (D), VERMONT: Don't call the USA Patriot Act II. It is not patriotic when it's done this secretive. If there's going to be a sequel, let's find out what it's going to be and let's make sure we fully debate it.
BROWN: A new Patriot Act, if there is one, is needed, its supporters say, because the first one, which gave the government new broad powers of arrest and seizure and surveillance in the wake of September 11, needs both refining and strengthening.
MIKE SCARDAVILLE, HERITAGE FOUNDATION: The attorney general should be applauded for a continuous review. If we're going to adapt to a modern world, we have to continuously reevaluate the tools we utilize and make sure that they have both the appropriate restrictions and the appropriate powers.
BROWN: It's that appropriate-powers part of any additional legislation that troubles so many civil libertarians.
Among other things, here's what the proposals would do: keep certain arrests secret; allow the government to have broad new surveillance powers over personal credit information; eliminate some laws by individual states that curb police spying; allow the collection and the establishment of a national DNA database on so- called suspected individuals; strip citizenship from individuals who support groups the government considers terrorist organizations; and grant prosecutorial immunity to federal agents who enforce any of these new laws.
ANTHONY ROMERO, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, ACLU: The legislation goes further, to allow the secret arrest of individuals without disclosing their name and would deny habeas corpus review to legal permanent residents. Habeas corpus has not been suspended since the Civil War.
BROWN: The attorney general, though, said nothing so far is final.
ASHCROFT: There is not a proposed terrorist act two from the Justice Department. No final discussion has been made with the attorney general about proposals. I am keenly aware that the administration cannot pass legislation. Only members of the Congress can pass legislation.
BROWN: But there is concern that an administration which already wants to collect additional data from people at airports and approved a Pentagon proposal to tap into vast databanks of credit card companies, gathering data on literally tens of millions of Americans, may be infringing too much on individual privacy.
ROMERO: We have to ask ourselves, where will this end in a war without end, because the war on terror is never going to come to a public, decisive end? How far will our government go? And how is it giving government increasing powers over our lives and our rights and our liberties going to make us any safer as a country?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: It may ultimately turn out to be the debate of our time.
Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, we'll check morning papers from around the country and around the world.
And later: chilling videotape of the World Trade Center towers and other landmarks, what they used to plot the attack on September 11.
From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Next on NEWSNIGHT: morning papers from around the country and around the world, tomorrow morning's papers, on NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Heard the whole song.
Quick check now of morning papers, tomorrow morning's papers from around the country and around the world. My producer said I wasn't explaining the bit carefully enough.
"USA Today": On the front page of "USA Today" tomorrow -- thought I'd say that again -- up at the top, because they love a good sports story, don't they? "Rose" -- as in Pete Rose -- "Could be Back by June." I'm going to have to do this without glasses again today. I'm sorry. And, interestingly, on the sidebar over here: "Legalized Gambling Gaining Appeal." So it's kind of a theme front page for "USA Today."
On to "The Boston Herald." It's a terrific headline and a great story. "I've Got a Kid" is the headline. It is the story of -- there was this terrible plane crash -- the story of the rescue of one child in "The Boston Herald" this morning. Anything else there? No.
"Detroit Free Press" tomorrow will -- if you live in Detroit, you'll find up to find that your state is in a budget quandary. Almost $2 billion the governor has to cut from the state budget. And what they did, "The Free Press" did, is they explained to you over on the side here what $2 billion will buy you. It will buy you 7,500 homes at $200,000 each, among other things. That's "The Detroit Free Press." I love that little paper. Well, it's not that little. It's a big city, right?
"Chicago Sun-Times": This is the first time I can recall "The Sun-Times" leading with Iraq in the time we've been doing this. Anyway, that's their big lead: "Iraq Will Face Shock and Awe." But up in the corner, if you can find it, you see that little story up there? "Gems For Life: Part of Woman's Cremated Remains Turned Into Man-Made Diamonds." You've got to be joking. Well, they're not.
Quickly the picture. Let me show you this little guy. And so I can see it with you, I'll put my glasses on. A young man, Travis Cronegal (ph), is made an honorary Texas Ranger. This is part of the Make-A-Wish Foundation. And young Travis is ill. And this was his wish, to be a Texas Ranger. And so, God bless him, there he was. And there they did it. And isn't that nice?
Still ahead on NEWSNIGHT: segment seven. The World Trade Center tapes, evidence of an innocent family vacation or was it something more sinister?
We'll take a short break and be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Finally from us tonight, we were thumbing through an old New York restaurant guide from the year 2001 when one review stopped us cold. It was for Windows on the World at the World Trade Center, praised for its unbeatable view. On a clear day, it says, you can see forever. It's the innocence of it that's so painful, a glimpse of what was and the knowledge of what was to be.
We had that feeling today when we saw some video CNN has gotten ahold of, with one key difference: accusations that there's nothing innocent about the video at all or the people who made it.
Here's CNN Jaime Colby.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMIE COLBY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It could have been video shot by any New York tourist: 30 minutes of the city's most famous landmarks, the World Trade Center, inside and out, from bottom to top.
"This is the top of the skyscraper," the cameraman says in Arabic. There are views of the Statue of Liberty, the Brooklyn Bridge and the Empire State Building, which a camera later captures at night, zooming in on a plane flying over Midtown Manhattan. This tape from 1997 is now in the hands of families of September 11 attack victims, who believe it's no vacation video.
BILL DOYLE, FATHER OF SEPTEMBER 11 VICTIM: It just makes me cringe.
JOAN MOLINARO, MOTHER OF SEPTEMBER 11 VICTIM: When I watch him videotaping from the top of the World Trade Center down and then going right up the Hudson, the direction one of those planes took, and when I saw him sitting with his arm around that statue, it was just sickening.
COLBY: Bill Doyle and Joan Molinaro each lost sons in the attack. They're among 3,000 plaintiffs suing dozens of banks, Saudi princes, and Islamic charities they believe financed terrorism. They see this tape as a scouting mission.
MOLINARO: You can see he's focusing on the antenna of the north tower and in the floors, in exactly where. And he moves the camera. It's almost exactly where the plane hit.
DOYLE: I know exactly where Joey was and where his office building was. It's almost like he stopped right there and just panned at it.
COLBY: The tape belonged to the man you see here touring Wall Street landmarks.
Ghasoub Al-Abrash Ghalyoun says, "I'll knock them all down." Ghasoub is a suspected al Qaeda operative in Spain, where law enforcement officials have charged him with belonging to a terrorist organization.
"You shouldn't arrest a person with no evidence," Ghasoub said after his arrest last April. Spanish police say other tapes in his home have footage of the Sears Tower in Chicago, San Francisco's Golden Gate Bridge and Disneyland.
JACK CORDRAY, ATTORNEY FOR SEPTEMBER 11 FAMILIES: It's obvious, from a viewing of the tapes, that this was no mere tourist review of the great symbols of the United States. These were tapes that were made to sight paths and approaches for the airplanes that were to be flown into the towers on 9/11.
COLBY: Ghasoub declined to be interviewed, but his attorney says his client has no connection to terrorist activity. Quote: "We strongly and categorically deny these tapes had anything to do with the attacks. Even the police have not been able to show this. They were recordings of a family on a trip." Indeed, more than half the 90-minute tape shows the father of five on vacation and at home. Yet Spain was a meeting place for 9/11 hijackers and where more than 30 alleged Islamic terrorists have been rounded up since 9/11. Ghasoub is out on bail.
Jaime Colby, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: And that is our report for tonight. Good to have you with us. We're back here tomorrow at 10:00 Eastern time. We hope you are, too.
Until then, I'm Aaron Brown in New York. Good night for all of us at NEWSNIGHT.
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Aired March 4, 2003 - 22:00 ET
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AARON BROWN, HOST: And, good evening, everyone. The theory of the day is that the United States, unable to round up the necessary votes, will walk away from a second U.N. resolution. We'll pull it off the table rather than risk losing. The administration will argue it never really needed a second resolution, that the original Resolution 1441 gives it the right to wage war in and of itself.
This view is not shared in many other places on the globe, from what we can tell, including much of this country, which continues to want a second resolution even if the administration does not. If that's how this plays out, it will be a sad ending and a stunning failure on both the administration side and the Security Council side as well.
The five permanent members in the post- Cold War era could not come up with an acceptable solution, a compromise to Iraq. It's a disaster for those who believe in the importance of the U.N. itself. They will have to take a huge leap, the U.N. will, towards irrelevancy, and every government involved, including our own, will share some of the blame.
On to the news of the day and there is an awful lot dealing with Iraq. It begins at the White House, an impatient White House. Chris Burns has the duty tonight. Chris, start us off with a headline.
CHRIS BURNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, good evening, Aaron. That impatience appearing to be increasingly explicit if you listen to officials here. Could we be not weeks but perhaps days away from armed conflict? Could it be time very soon to give Saddam Hussein an ultimatum?
BROWN: Chris, thank you. Back to you at the top tonight. A key question, of course, is the military ready if and when the president makes the call? They've had to do some adjustments. Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon. Jamie, a headline.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, the marriage of convenience between the United States and Turkey is off. There is still some courtship going on, but basically Pentagon officials tell me they're over it, it's time to move on with the war plan.
BROWN: Jaime, we'll get details coming up.
A deadly terror attack today in the Philippines. Maria Ressa has been covering that. Maria, a headline. MARIA RESSA, CNN JAKARTA BUREAU CHIEF: Aaron, two explosions followed by several bomb threats and false alarms aggravated the mood of insecurity in the southern Philippines and put the focus on a group officials here say have set up training camps for al Qaeda.
BROWN: Maria, thank you.
The latest now on Khalid Shaikh Mohammed and what, if anything, he is saying. Jean Meserve is on that for us. So, Jeanne, a headline tonight.
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, according to government officials, what he is saying has not been very useful. But some of the names they uncovered when they captured Mohammed matched the names of individuals already under surveillance right here in the U.S.
BROWN: Jeanne, thank you. Back to you and the rest shortly.
Also coming up tonight on NEWSNIGHT, the fourth of March, the attorney general on Capitol Hill tonight. We'll take a look at that very thorny question since the 9/11 attacks. Are we trading in our civil liberties for security? It seems important to look at that again because the Justice Department is preparing a new bill to expand its powers.
And it has had the rough feel of a home movie. A family visits the World Trade Center years before 9/11. But some families of the victims say the intent behind this video is nothing but sinister. We'll show it to you tonight.
Lots to do in the hour ahead. We begin with the president. He talked today about Medicare. About a proposal to reshape Medicare in a way that could fundamentally change the lives of 40 million Americans today, potentially millions more in the years to come. Hugely important political dynamite, and as it turns out, a footnote for tonight. Because even though the backdrop to the podium read better benefits, the backdrop to just about every story from here on out is the now almost certain war.
Is it coming sooner than expected? Has the president already made up his mind? There were hints today in the diplomacy and in the rhetoric. We start things off with the rhetoric from the White House tonight. CNN's Chris Burns.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BURNS (voice-over): If it isn't a war ultimatum yet, it's increasingly looking like one. Both for Saddam Hussein and the United Nations.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I went to the United Nations to remind them that that body has a responsibility to make sure its words mean something. I reminded them that for 12 long years the United Nations has asked Saddam to disarm because he is dangerous. BURNS: The Bush administration still working the diplomatic window. Though working two, as if it is about to slam that window shut.
COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: We're not talking a long period of time. I don't want to get pinned down on days or weeks or a week. But certainly I think next week we would have to give very serious consideration as to what the next step should be.
BURNS: Despite Iraq's destruction of Al Samoud missiles, the White House lists tons of anthrax, nerve agents, and munitions it says Iraq has yet to account for. The administration continues lobbying for another U.N. Security Council resolution authorizing war and waiting to see what chief weapons inspector Hans Blix reports Friday. But White House officials say they would likely avoid a vote if they still risk a veto by permanent members, France, China or Russia.
The administration contends existing Resolution 1441 is enough to justify military action against Baghdad. So when an ultimatum for Saddam Hussein?
ARI FLEISCHER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I think it's too soon to say. The president continues to hope, one, that this can be settled peacefully. But, two, let's see what the outcome is up in New York, let's see what happens in the Blix report, let's see what happens after the second vote takes place.
BURNS: Meanwhile, the president is to meet in Washington this week with General Tommy Franks, who will lead a war against Iraq. Military planners say they can attack with or without a Turkish-based U.S. force.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNS: President Bush also plans to meet with an envoy of Pope John Paul II, who has been arguing that a war isn't morally justified. The Bush administration, however, arguing that this time it is -- Aaron.
BROWN: That meeting is tomorrow, correct, at the White House?
BURNS: Yes, that's right. He will meeting some time in the afternoon. The Bush administration arguing today at least Ari Fleischer saying that a war could be justified. It would be morally unjustified not to go after Saddam Hussein because he could pass weapons to terrorist groups. That being the claim of the Bush administration.
BROWN: And just from what you can pick up today, was there any frustration at the White House or was it -- did they understand the nature of the times and the moment that this major speech on Medicare reform gets pushed off our front page and we suspect most front pages because of Iraq?
BURNS: I don't believe so, I think it's something that the Bush administration does believe that it is getting attention. It's obviously getting a lot of criticism from Democrats saying that it is privatizing and selling off Medicare and selling the elderly down the road. But the Bush administration saying that this needs to be addressed, it has to be addressed, because we have 40 million retirees now.
We could have 80 million in the next several years. So it is something to act on very quickly and in a bipartisan fashion.
BROWN: Chris, thank you. Chris Burns at the White House tonight.
Now to the United Nations, the tempo there picking up considerably. Two milestones, important days just lie ahead. One on Friday, the other some time next week. And there is a growing sense that between now and then the United States will either make the final decision to try to ram through another Security Council resolution or, as they say in diplo (ph) speak, punt.
Until then there are many things in play: the Russians, the French, Hans Blix. And reporting for us, Richard Roth -- Richard.
RICHARD ROTH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, they haven't agreed behind closed doors in the Security Council chamber. They haven't agreed in the hallways. So, today, the Security Council said, let's do lunch.
It was a prior arranged scheduled monthly lunch for the Security Council, but you could even see some tensions, as the various ambassadors piled in, particularly Pakistan and Mexico talking to each other, with Mexico putting its hand on the Pakistani ambassador's shoulder. There is still hardened positions regarding this proposed U.S. resolution. Listen to the differences as said by Russia and the United States on the resolution.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN NEGROPONTE, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: We put down what we think to be a very reasonable resolution that concludes that Iraq is not complying with Resolution 1441 and prior disarmament resolutions. And we think that it's time for the Council to face that decision. That is to say, to decide that Iraq is not in compliance and has not taken advantage of this final opportunity offered to it under paragraph two of 1441.
SERGEY LAVROV, RUSSIAN AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: We can only say that we cannot support a resolution, and I don't see how the Security Council can support a resolution which would, in fact, mean a green light to start a war.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROTH: Many of the ambassadors are going to look to the next briefing by Hans Blix this Friday. It could be the final briefing. He updates his report file last weekend, in which he said Iraq's cooperation was rather limited. He is going to note Iraq's cooperation on the destruction of Al Samoud 2 missiles, so far 19 of them.
There is a story in the "London Independent Newspaper" (ph) tomorrow that says and alleges that Hans Blix is going to report that Iraq times out its cooperation according to imminent Security Council resolutions and resolutions and meetings. Meanwhile, the spokesman for the U.N. weapons inspector says, no comment. Mr. Blix is still rewriting his report, his update. No official confirmation of that -- Aaron.
BROWN: Well, I spent much of today trying to figure out what the Russians, in fact, are saying. Are they saying they will veto this resolution?
ROTH: They're stopping short of saying that, though some believe -- Foreign Minister Ivanov said that in London. He just said we reserve the right. We could, we might, and that abstaining is not a proper position to take. But we heard this before in other debates, where countries talk tough then and sometimes abstain. It's too soon to tell.
BROWN: Thank you, Richard. Richard Roth over at the U.N. tonight.
On the military side of things today, the Bush administration turned up the heat on Turkey. You'll recall the Turkish parliament giving a nod to the vast majority of Turks who did not want to see their country used as a launching pad for American troops invading Iraq from the north. It shows no signs yet of rethinking that vote.
The administration today gave them some reasons to change their minds. The White House saying the Turks would no longer get even a portion of the $15 billion in aid, not one nickel.
In the meantime, the Pentagon is moving ahead with plan B. Reporting for us, Jamie McIntyre.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE (voice-over): After weeks of hoping that Turkey would allow some 62,000 troops to use its bases, the Pentagon has basically given up, sources say. Because the decision was the result of a democratic process and by a NATO ally, the U.S. is not complaining too loudly.
POWELL: Our military authorities have options that will still make it absolutely certain that we'll be able to perform this military mission in an efficient and effective way and achieve our objectives.
MCINTYRE: In fact, Pentagon officials say the loss of Turkish bases means the war could come sooner because there would be no need to wait several more weeks to unload transport ships and prepare Turkish facilities to receive U.S. troops. Pentagon sources say the Army's fourth infantry division, which is still at Fort Hood, Texas, may not be deployed. Its role filled by the helicopter-born troops of the 101st airborne division now arriving in Kuwait. And the ships carrying the fourth ID's equipment may not be sent on the long trip through the Suez Canal and the Persian Gulf, where they would have to unload it already over crowded ports in Kuwait. Instead, they could just be brought home. With another wave of B-52 bombers in England, and the departure of big deck helicopter carriers for the region, sources say Central Commander General Tommy Franks will tell President Bush Wednesday, in what could be the final pre-war briefing at the White House, that all is ready once he gives the order.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: Now, just tonight in a radio interview with a local affiliate here, WMAL Radio in Washington, General Myers, the chairman of the joint chiefs, admitted that it was going to be more difficult and more costly without that Turkish northern option. However, he said, "It's too soon to write off what kind of support we might get from Turkey." An indication that the U.S. is still hopeful that even if they don't get permission to deploy all those troops, they may get permission for over-flight rights, or to base perhaps other smaller aspects in Turkey.
Some level of cooperation. But not the big package, and not the big package of economic aid -- Aaron.
BROWN: Jamie, before you get away, is there anything on the North Korea front after yesterday's bit of stuff in the air?
MCINTYRE: Well, we learned a little bit more about the incident. For one thing, we learned that the planes, the MiGs that intercepted that U.S. reconnaissance plane were carrying heat-seeking missiles. So the question of whether they locked on with the radar really didn't matter because they didn't have radar-guided missiles. Still a very provocative act.
And we also learned today that plans to send two dozen long-range bombers, including B-1s and B-52s to Guam, something that was planned before this incident took place, those deployment orders went out late last week. And the U.S. will moving those planes. But they went to great lengths to say that is not an aggressive act it is merely a prudent measure to bolster the defenses in that area -- Aaron.
BROWN: Jamie, thank you. Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon.
A bit more now on the diplomacy in Iraq, current trials and tribulations for the White House. And we suppose the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) of it over the last couple of years. Joining us tonight, former Assistant Secretary of State, Jamie Rubin. It's good to see you.
What do you think the Russians are doing here, by the way? I'm trying to figure it out. I suppose others are.
JAMES RUBIN, FMR. ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE: I don't think Putin knows really what he's going to do. I think they're hoping and praying that they won't have to exercise a veto, because the administration won't be able to muster the nine or 10 votes they need for a positive vote. And they're hoping just to abstain, or the administration will not have the votes and never put this resolution to a vote.
They would like to avoid a veto. Putin would like to avoid breaking faith directly with President Bush, I suspect.
BROWN: What are the implications you think of the United States walking away from a second resolution at this point, both in terms of world opinion and on the body of the U.N. itself?
RUBIN: Well, I think from the beginning, from last fall, the administration was very careful not to say that it needed a second resolution. All the original Resolution 1441 they're now citing said is, if there is a material breach, the Security Council should meet and decide what to do. And no resolution is fine by their standpoint.
What they did in the new resolution was respond to genuine political needs of Tony Blair and Britain and Prime Minister Asnar in Spain, who really could use the second resolution because their publics are overwhelmingly against it.
BROWN: Walking away from this, doesn't this just hang Tony Blair out?
RUBIN: Well, I think Tony Blair knows what in the end what will determine his fate is how the war goes. And even the tabloid newspapers that have been vitriolic against him to date, they will have to change course if there's a war beginning, because they will support British troops.
Britain, you know this is a warrior nation. And their tabloids are going to go for the troops. So if the war is short and successful, this will all be forgotten. If, however, this is a lot messier and a lot longer than people have predicted, then the lack of a second resolution will really hurt them.
BROWN: Back to the question of the second resolution in the United Nations. Do you think the United Nations itself has been damaged by the process that's been playing out and the way it's been playing out?
RUBIN: Well, it's a tough call. You know, last fall people were worried the administration wasn't even going to go to the U.N. at all, and that would have been true damage. The United Nations system did work, the discussion about whether to go to war took place through the U.N. system. A positive vote, a unanimous vote took place.
You know there are some questions about whether the second resolution should have been sought. And if they don't get a majority, it doesn't pass, I think people will wonder if that was a mistake, and that's a dangerous precedent for the future. But in the end, I think it's fair to say, unless there is some dramatic change in the next few days, this is not going to be a war with the legitimacy.
It will have the legality of the U.N. resolution. The last one gives them plenty of international legal standing. In fact, more legal standing to act than when we in the Clinton administration acted in Kosovo. But what they won't have is that stamp of legitimacy that they sought, that Tony Blair wanted, that Asnar in Spain wanted.
BROWN: Just a quick one here. I had the feeling on Friday that the rules changed a bit and the administration started saying again that disarmament itself was not enough, that Saddam has to go. Is that my ear, or other people heard it that way?
RUBIN: No, you heard it right. And I have to tell you, if they were seeking seriously a second resolution, that was not the wisest diplomatic statement. Because there's no other country in the Security Council, Britain included, who supports that. The British position is very clear that if there's disarmament there's no war.
And for the White House to suggest that this isn't about disarmament but about something else, I think undermines the chances of getting that resolution. They may have concluded by last Friday they weren't going to get it anyway.
BROWN: It's nice to see you. Thanks for coming in. Appreciate it.
RUBIN: Nice to see you. Thanks.
BROWN: See you again soon, I hope.
Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, more details about a big fish, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, and what information he may have revealed as a result of his capture.
Later, amazing and tragic home videos. A blueprint for terror in New York. This is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: The administration took another couple of victory laps today over the capture of Khalid Shaikh Mohammed. The president on the stump, the attorney general on the Hill. It's hard to blame them. The arrest was certainly a huge blow to al Qaeda.
We learned a few more scant details as well about how the interrogation is going, along with some potentially chilling details about associates of Mohammed now being watched in the United States. Reporting for us, CNN's Jeanne Meserve.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MESERVE (voice-over): The capture of Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, trumpeted by President Bush.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The man who masterminded the September 11 attacks is no longer a problem to the United States of America.
MESERVE: Mohammed, in U.S. custody at an undisclosed location, is talking to authorities. But government sources say so far what he's told them isn't very useful. Sources say computers and papers seized when Mohammed was arrested contained the names of hundreds of people who could be al Qaeda operatives. Government sources say so far they have matched about a dozen of the names to individuals in the U.S. already under surveillance by the FBI.
Also on a computer, information about possible terrorist plots and references to the United States, though no blueprints say sources.
JOHN ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL: The CIA and FBI are cooperating thoroughly to share information from the capture, analyze that intelligence, and coordinate follow-up operations.
MESERVE: Apprehended with Mohammed in the raid in (UNINTELLIGIBLE), a second significant al Qaeda figure, say U.S. officials. Mustafa Ahmed al Hasawi (ph) is alleged to have ply supplied money to Mohammed Atta, the leader of the 9/11 hijackers through bank accounts in the United Arab Emirates.
A February 13 raid in Quetta, Pakistan failed to net Mohammed, but U.S. officials say the son of Sheikh Omar Abdul Rahman (ph) was apprehended. Rahman, the so-called blind cleric, is in jail for plotting to blow up U.S. landmarks.
Meanwhile, unsealed (ph) Tuesday, charges against two Yemeni men arrested in Frankfurt, Germany on January 10. One of them is a Muslim cleric, Sheikh Mohammed Alihasan Al Moyad (ph).
ROSLYNN MAUSKOPF, U.S. ATTORNEY: Al Moyad (ph) met with bin Laden and provided over $20 million to al Qaeda.
MESERVE: Much of the money, says the Justice Department, raised at this Brooklyn mosque.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MESERVE: U.S. officials say that since Mohammed was taken into custody they have seen an increase in intelligence chatter. They are not sure what that signifies. It could be that his associates are discussing his arrests. It could be they are planning a terrorist attack, or it could mean they are on the move to elude possible capture -- Aaron.
BROWN: Now let's talk about these people in the United States and the ones under surveillance. Do we hear anything that suggests that arrests there are imminent?
MESERVE: Arrests are a possibility, but they are certainly not necessarily going to come. One reason is that it may be more useful at this point to keep these people under surveillance and see where they go and who they associate with. Also, you need to have grounds to arrest someone, and being a name on a list is not adequate grounds.
BROWN: Thank you Jeanne. Jeanne Meserve in Washington.
The capture of Khalid Shaikh Mohammed is also raising more than just cheer and chill. It's raising hopes in the intelligence community that by shaking the al Qaeda tree, out may fall Osama bin Laden and other top lieutenants. The story in "TIME" magazine's online edition tonight lays out Mohammed's last moments of freedom and some fascinating evidence of bin Laden's whereabouts.
Tim McGirk shares a byline on the story. And Tim joins us tonight from Islamabad. It's good to have you with us. They believe Mohammed knew or knows where bin Laden is. Which is it?
TIM MCGIRK, ISLAMABAD BUREAU CHIEF, "TIME" MAGAZINE: Well, they think that he's got a pretty good idea of where he is or where he was until very recently. But they also think that Osama bin Laden has probably got news of the arrest and that he's on the move again. So this is really to their benefit because they think that once Osama is moving they can flush him out and it will be a lot easier to grab him.
BROWN: And they believe he is still somewhere in Pakistan, correct?
MCGIRK: That's right. Up until now, the Pakistanis have said they didn't think he was here. And officially they're still saying that. But we just heard up in (UNINTELLIGIBLE) that they not only think he's in Pakistan but they managed to narrow it down. They said that he's probably in northern Pakistan, either in the tribal area or maybe even in (UNINTELLIGIBLE), the same city where they captured Khalid Shaikh Mohammed on Saturday.
BROWN: In the piece that's on the online -- "TIME" magazine online tonight -- you talked about some letters that Osama wrote to members of his family. Tell us a bit about that, what you know of their contents.
MCGIRK: Well, again, this is just from Pakistani intelligence sources. But they say that wherever Osama is, he's not with his four wives and his many children. They think that Osama's family had escaped probably pretty early on during the U.S. bombing campaign in Afghanistan, and that they escaped straight across the border to Iran. And that that's probably where they're still hiding now.
And so these letters presumably were somehow smuggled out through various different messengers, probably through Afghanistan, taking the smuggler routes through the south of the country. And that they were intercepted along the way to his family.
BROWN: So these Pakistani intelligence sources have seen these letters, they have read these letters?
MCGIRK: They've seen them, they've read them, and they passed them on to the CIA. So I think both the Pakistanis and the Americans now are just combing through those letters for any indication about what sort of health Osama is in, who his partners might be, and, above all, where he's hiding.
BROWN: And American intelligence accepting of this notion that the family is in Iran? That Iran and the Republican Guard let them in? Or are they somewhat in the dark or at least suspicious of this? MCGIRK: Well, I think that they're pretty certain that back in the early days of the fighting when the United States first began to attack al Qaeda and Taliban in Afghanistan, that there was a convoy of about 40 al Qaeda vehicles that crossed over the border into Iran. And nothing moves in Iran without the knowledge of the government there.
There are certain elements of the government, like the revolutionary guard. So I think that in that case the Iranians were probably aware that there were these al Qaeda crossing over and that they probably did include his family.
BROWN: Tim, thanks. Tim McGirk from "TIME" magazine. His piece is on the online edition of "TIME" if you want to check that out after the program.
MCGIRK: Thank you.
BROWN: I suppose you can check it out now. We prefer you wait until the end of the program. You can do so.
Another name to take in tonight, when talking about the war on terror. Though it is unlikely that William P. Hide (ph) saw himself as part of that battle, he was a Baptist missionary. Twenty-five years he lived in the Philippines. Today, in a bombing at the airport in Davao City, he and a lot of other people died there. The report from CNN's Maria Ressa.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RESSA (voice-over): When it started to rain, scores of people waiting to greet passengers on an arriving flight took shelter here. Shortly after the plane landed, the first more powerful bomb exploded, shattering the roof and killing at least 20 people. The bomb was hidden, officials say, in an unattended bag.
FLEISCHER: The president condemns the terrorist act and pledges cooperation and assistance to ensure that those who are responsible are brought to justice.
RESSA: Philippine President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo also condemned what she called a brazen act of terrorism, which should not go unpunished. No one has claimed responsibility, but the Philippine military says it suspects rebels from the MILF.
The (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Islamic Liberation Fund, the largest Muslim separatist group in the Philippines, were behind the attacks. Intelligence officials from more than six countries say the MILF has established training camps for al Qaeda. An MILF spokesman denies any involvement in the attacks.
Fighting has escalated after the Philippine military attacked a key MILF stronghold three weeks ago. Since then, the military has blamed a series of bombings and raids on the MILF.
(on camera): This comes at a period of controversy about the role U.S. troops will play in the Southern Philippines. An advance team of U.S. special forces arrived last month. The U.S. says it will do all it can to help on the Philippines in its war of terror.
Maria Ressa, CNN, Manila.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Coming up on NEWSNIGHT: cops under fire, top brass in San Francisco arraigned after a controversial indictment. We'll have details on that in a moment.
Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: The latest now on a hard-to-believe story about law and disorder: Practically the entire top echelon of the San Francisco Police Department, from the chief on down, has been in court pleading not guilty to indictments on a range of charges, from conspiracy to obstruction of justice to assault. And how did this all begin? With some off-duty cops, a couple of other guys, a scuffle outside a bar over a bag of steak fajitas.
Here is CNN's Rusty Dornin.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A solemn procession of the indicted, the march to their arraignment led by San Francisco Police Chief Earl Sanders. Each one of the defendants pronounced their innocence.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not guilty, Your Honor.
DORNIN: It all stemmed from an alleged attack on two men by three off-duty police officers last fall. The victims claimed the officers beat them and stole their steak fajitas. Those three cops face assault charges. What did or didn't happen with the investigation after the alleged assault has toppled seven other high- ranking San Francisco police charged with obstruction of justice, including the assistant chief, Alex Fagan, who is the father of one of the alleged attackers.
Defense attorneys said they were shocked to read the indictments.
JIM COLLINS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It is the most pathetic indictment I have ever seen. It is ridiculous. It is absolutely ridiculous that the command staff of the San Francisco Police Department have to be removed in this time of war with Iraq and terrorism over this bunch of garbage.
DORNIN: District attorney Terence Hallinan stood by the indictments, proclaiming no one is above the law in San Francisco.
TERENCE HALLINAN, DISTRICT ATTORNEY: These specific allegations of assaults by off-duty police officers and subsequent cover-up by high-ranking police command officials are extremely distressing. They strike at the heart of our civil liberties.
DORNIN: Nine of the officers agreed to be suspended without pay. Chief Sanders has taken medical leave.
JOHN BURRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It's a horrible way to use a grand jury and to disrupt a police agency and/or to destroy a man's career who has been honorable in his police efforts for over 30-some years. So it's too cavalier for me.
DORNIN: With careers and pensions on the line, the majority of the accused pushed for speedy trials, hoping to, one way or another, quickly close this chapter of San Francisco's history.
Rusty Dornin, CNN, San Francisco.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: A few other stories from around the country briefly tonight, beginning with the resignation at the Department of Health and Human Services in Washington. Janet Rehnquist, the daughter of the Supreme Court chief justice, will leave her post as inspector general at that department this week. Ms. Rehnquist has been under investigation by several government agencies for allegations of professional misconduct.
Senate investigators say she delayed an audit of the Florida state pension system when she should not have. Ms. Rehnquist denies doing anything wrong.
Update now on a controversy regarding the Pledge of Allegiance: The 9th Circuit Court of Appeals today put on hold its ruling that bans the pledge for public classrooms because of the phrase "under God." Without that stay, schools in nine Western states would have had to stop saying the pledge, or at least changing it, beginning next week. Now the schools have 90 days to appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court. And that will certainly happen.
A terrible ski accident in Breckenridge, Colorado, could lead to charges of manslaughter. A British skier on vacation ran into another skier on the slopes on Sunday, knocked him into a tree. The man died hours later. Prosecutors expect to make a charging decision in the case -- it doesn't happen often on the slopes -- by Thursday .
Still to come on NEWSNIGHT: the conflict between personal freedoms and safety, the possibility of a new Patriot Act and what it would mean.
This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: And next on NEWSNIGHT: the attorney general and questions about a newer, stronger -- but would it be better? -- Patriot Act.
We'll be right back.
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BROWN: In the post-9/11 period, those lofty discussions of the conflicts between civil liberties and national security seemed to many to be a bit hollow. Without tighter security, there would be no liberties, they argued.
Now a year and a half later, that battle is being joined again as the Justice Department prepares to update and expand upon the powers granted under what was called the Patriot Act. The draft of these proposals was leaked. It has not been formerly sent to Congress, but the draft is floating around out there and, even in rough form, has raised some serious questions from both the right and the left about where the Justice Department appears to be heading.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN (voice-over): Giving the government more police powers, a new version of the Patriot Act, was not something the attorney general wanted to talk about.
JOHN ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL: Until I have something that I think is appropriate, I don't know that I should engage in some discussion about something that I -- we don't believe is appropriate.
BROWN: But two senators, Senator Leahy of Vermont and Feingold of Wisconsin, told the attorney general they were furious that this 83-page draft proposal, officially called the Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003, was even being circulated without congressional input.
SEN. PATRICK LEAHY (D), VERMONT: Don't call the USA Patriot Act II. It is not patriotic when it's done this secretive. If there's going to be a sequel, let's find out what it's going to be and let's make sure we fully debate it.
BROWN: A new Patriot Act, if there is one, is needed, its supporters say, because the first one, which gave the government new broad powers of arrest and seizure and surveillance in the wake of September 11, needs both refining and strengthening.
MIKE SCARDAVILLE, HERITAGE FOUNDATION: The attorney general should be applauded for a continuous review. If we're going to adapt to a modern world, we have to continuously reevaluate the tools we utilize and make sure that they have both the appropriate restrictions and the appropriate powers.
BROWN: It's that appropriate-powers part of any additional legislation that troubles so many civil libertarians.
Among other things, here's what the proposals would do: keep certain arrests secret; allow the government to have broad new surveillance powers over personal credit information; eliminate some laws by individual states that curb police spying; allow the collection and the establishment of a national DNA database on so- called suspected individuals; strip citizenship from individuals who support groups the government considers terrorist organizations; and grant prosecutorial immunity to federal agents who enforce any of these new laws.
ANTHONY ROMERO, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, ACLU: The legislation goes further, to allow the secret arrest of individuals without disclosing their name and would deny habeas corpus review to legal permanent residents. Habeas corpus has not been suspended since the Civil War.
BROWN: The attorney general, though, said nothing so far is final.
ASHCROFT: There is not a proposed terrorist act two from the Justice Department. No final discussion has been made with the attorney general about proposals. I am keenly aware that the administration cannot pass legislation. Only members of the Congress can pass legislation.
BROWN: But there is concern that an administration which already wants to collect additional data from people at airports and approved a Pentagon proposal to tap into vast databanks of credit card companies, gathering data on literally tens of millions of Americans, may be infringing too much on individual privacy.
ROMERO: We have to ask ourselves, where will this end in a war without end, because the war on terror is never going to come to a public, decisive end? How far will our government go? And how is it giving government increasing powers over our lives and our rights and our liberties going to make us any safer as a country?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: It may ultimately turn out to be the debate of our time.
Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, we'll check morning papers from around the country and around the world.
And later: chilling videotape of the World Trade Center towers and other landmarks, what they used to plot the attack on September 11.
From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Next on NEWSNIGHT: morning papers from around the country and around the world, tomorrow morning's papers, on NEWSNIGHT.
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BROWN: Heard the whole song.
Quick check now of morning papers, tomorrow morning's papers from around the country and around the world. My producer said I wasn't explaining the bit carefully enough.
"USA Today": On the front page of "USA Today" tomorrow -- thought I'd say that again -- up at the top, because they love a good sports story, don't they? "Rose" -- as in Pete Rose -- "Could be Back by June." I'm going to have to do this without glasses again today. I'm sorry. And, interestingly, on the sidebar over here: "Legalized Gambling Gaining Appeal." So it's kind of a theme front page for "USA Today."
On to "The Boston Herald." It's a terrific headline and a great story. "I've Got a Kid" is the headline. It is the story of -- there was this terrible plane crash -- the story of the rescue of one child in "The Boston Herald" this morning. Anything else there? No.
"Detroit Free Press" tomorrow will -- if you live in Detroit, you'll find up to find that your state is in a budget quandary. Almost $2 billion the governor has to cut from the state budget. And what they did, "The Free Press" did, is they explained to you over on the side here what $2 billion will buy you. It will buy you 7,500 homes at $200,000 each, among other things. That's "The Detroit Free Press." I love that little paper. Well, it's not that little. It's a big city, right?
"Chicago Sun-Times": This is the first time I can recall "The Sun-Times" leading with Iraq in the time we've been doing this. Anyway, that's their big lead: "Iraq Will Face Shock and Awe." But up in the corner, if you can find it, you see that little story up there? "Gems For Life: Part of Woman's Cremated Remains Turned Into Man-Made Diamonds." You've got to be joking. Well, they're not.
Quickly the picture. Let me show you this little guy. And so I can see it with you, I'll put my glasses on. A young man, Travis Cronegal (ph), is made an honorary Texas Ranger. This is part of the Make-A-Wish Foundation. And young Travis is ill. And this was his wish, to be a Texas Ranger. And so, God bless him, there he was. And there they did it. And isn't that nice?
Still ahead on NEWSNIGHT: segment seven. The World Trade Center tapes, evidence of an innocent family vacation or was it something more sinister?
We'll take a short break and be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Finally from us tonight, we were thumbing through an old New York restaurant guide from the year 2001 when one review stopped us cold. It was for Windows on the World at the World Trade Center, praised for its unbeatable view. On a clear day, it says, you can see forever. It's the innocence of it that's so painful, a glimpse of what was and the knowledge of what was to be.
We had that feeling today when we saw some video CNN has gotten ahold of, with one key difference: accusations that there's nothing innocent about the video at all or the people who made it.
Here's CNN Jaime Colby.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMIE COLBY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It could have been video shot by any New York tourist: 30 minutes of the city's most famous landmarks, the World Trade Center, inside and out, from bottom to top.
"This is the top of the skyscraper," the cameraman says in Arabic. There are views of the Statue of Liberty, the Brooklyn Bridge and the Empire State Building, which a camera later captures at night, zooming in on a plane flying over Midtown Manhattan. This tape from 1997 is now in the hands of families of September 11 attack victims, who believe it's no vacation video.
BILL DOYLE, FATHER OF SEPTEMBER 11 VICTIM: It just makes me cringe.
JOAN MOLINARO, MOTHER OF SEPTEMBER 11 VICTIM: When I watch him videotaping from the top of the World Trade Center down and then going right up the Hudson, the direction one of those planes took, and when I saw him sitting with his arm around that statue, it was just sickening.
COLBY: Bill Doyle and Joan Molinaro each lost sons in the attack. They're among 3,000 plaintiffs suing dozens of banks, Saudi princes, and Islamic charities they believe financed terrorism. They see this tape as a scouting mission.
MOLINARO: You can see he's focusing on the antenna of the north tower and in the floors, in exactly where. And he moves the camera. It's almost exactly where the plane hit.
DOYLE: I know exactly where Joey was and where his office building was. It's almost like he stopped right there and just panned at it.
COLBY: The tape belonged to the man you see here touring Wall Street landmarks.
Ghasoub Al-Abrash Ghalyoun says, "I'll knock them all down." Ghasoub is a suspected al Qaeda operative in Spain, where law enforcement officials have charged him with belonging to a terrorist organization.
"You shouldn't arrest a person with no evidence," Ghasoub said after his arrest last April. Spanish police say other tapes in his home have footage of the Sears Tower in Chicago, San Francisco's Golden Gate Bridge and Disneyland.
JACK CORDRAY, ATTORNEY FOR SEPTEMBER 11 FAMILIES: It's obvious, from a viewing of the tapes, that this was no mere tourist review of the great symbols of the United States. These were tapes that were made to sight paths and approaches for the airplanes that were to be flown into the towers on 9/11.
COLBY: Ghasoub declined to be interviewed, but his attorney says his client has no connection to terrorist activity. Quote: "We strongly and categorically deny these tapes had anything to do with the attacks. Even the police have not been able to show this. They were recordings of a family on a trip." Indeed, more than half the 90-minute tape shows the father of five on vacation and at home. Yet Spain was a meeting place for 9/11 hijackers and where more than 30 alleged Islamic terrorists have been rounded up since 9/11. Ghasoub is out on bail.
Jaime Colby, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: And that is our report for tonight. Good to have you with us. We're back here tomorrow at 10:00 Eastern time. We hope you are, too.
Until then, I'm Aaron Brown in New York. Good night for all of us at NEWSNIGHT.
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