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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown

173rd Airborne Secures Airfield in Kurdish Territory

Aired March 26, 2003 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


AARON BROWN, ANCHOR: The hour went by. That first hour went by pretty quickly. Among the things still to come in the hours ahead, between now and 2 a.m., we'll talk with Tom Friedman, the columnist for "The New York Times", one of the great -- a guy who has done extraordinary reporting on the region and now is a columnist. And we'll talk with him a little bit later.
I think Michael Gordon's on the phone. Is that where you want me to go? OK. Michael Gordon joins us, as he has for the last several nights. Michael is the chief military affairs writer for "The New York Times." He's at Camp Doha in Kuwait. I believe he's still there.

Michael, good evening to you. What's the lead on this day?

MICHAEL GORDON, "THE NEW YORK TIMES:" Well, I think we really have two things going on. One, there is the air drop of the 173rd in northern Iraq, which was notable, but really a poor substitute for the northern front the military originally had in mind, which was supposed to be a lot bigger and more powerful than this.

And then there's still some very messy fighting in the south between American forces, British forces on the one hand, and the paramilitaries from the Saddam Hussein regime on the other. It seems to be escalating in the south. Not quieting down.

BROWN: It seems to be escalating, did you say?

GORDON: Yes. It seems that -- you know, really the -- yesterday we talked about how the Iraqi strategy had been to infiltrate the American rear with hit and run attacks and sort of guerrilla tactics. And the military had been forced pretty much to put the Baghdad battle on hold temporarily and turn its focus to the south and to try to clean out the cities in the south of these paramilitaries. And that's what they're doing now.

But the -- what's happening is the Saddam Hussein regime is not flinching from this, and they've been sending down reinforcements from Baghdad. There were a number of fire fights and pretty sharp, you know, engagements over the course of the evening.

And so it looks like this piece of the south is becoming pretty messy. BROWN: I know from all of our conversations, you tend to view these things somewhat conservatively. But does it seem to you that what, I think, a lot of people thought was a war that might take weeks, might now take at the very least -- well, might take months?

GORDON: I find it hard to make any kind of prediction about this war, since it's such an unusual war. And the way it is organized, to my mind, violates all the previously well-tested and time-honored procedures for how to go about having a war.

I mean, when we did the last Gulf War, they assembled an overwhelming force. There was a backup in theater, not on ships headed this way. It was Colin Powell's doctrine that was in place.

And when they began the air campaign, they didn't stop and start. There was a persistent, relentless air campaign, the purpose of which was to put pressure on and keep it on.

This thing is a lot different from that. The forces, I consider to be, just a personal judgment -- not speaking on behalf of anybody -- but an inadequate force at best. On certain political assumptions, those being that the Iraqis don't fight too much.

And so now those assumptions, the political assumptions that the Pentagon has made, are being tested. And I don't -- I would be loathe to suggest this could go on for months, necessarily.

But the question I have in my mind is -- and, again, it's just a personal view, not really informed by anything anybody's told me here -- but will they proceed to go begin the Baghdad battle, or will they await some of these reinforcements that are headed this way?

The forces were originally being sent as part of the stabilization force, the post post-war force that was going to control the country. But you could just as easily use them as reinforcements for an offensive campaign.

BROWN: Are there risks to waiting?

GORDON: To my mind, there are more risks to rushing ahead. I know that seems to go against everything that the Bush administration is orchestrating here because they've done this in a very -- they're looking for a very quick resolution of this, and it's almost hurried, in my view.

But they -- really, the design of this campaign, as it's supposed to be intense, short, and over quickly. I can understand the diplomatic rationale for that. I really doubt that Kuwait wants to host American troops for a very long period of time. They're exposed in the Arab world. I think there are a lot of reasons why you wouldn't want a prolonged conflict, and I'm not advocating one.

But I think to try to put together a Baghdad attack without having, well, at least some sort of reserve in place, to my mind, is -- also has some risks. Now, I'm not speaking for the generals in any way, and I think they will make the ultimate judgments as to what they can do and when.

I think that there really has to be two requirements. I mean, I think one is that they have to get this situation in the south under control. I don't think that means they have to eliminate every last paramilitary guy, but they have to certainly reduce the level of resistance.

And I think the other requirement is they have to reduce the Republican Guard that's defending Baghdad through air power and bombings at some acceptable level so the whole weight of the effort for fighting through them doesn't fall on the ground forces.

I think this Turkey -- not Turkey development, but northern Iraq development with the dropping of the airborne is interesting, too. I mean, that's the first time there is a bit of a credible U.S. force in the north. But -- and that's a positive thing, from my point of view, and of American military planners. And it gives them new options. And they can build on that expand that.

But it's really a far cry from what was originally envisioned. I went on a trip with Paul Wolfowitz to Turkey in November, and when he sought to get permission to put American forces in there.

And at the time, they were thinking of a much more substantial force. It eventually became the 4th Infantry Division, which is really a mechanized division, the most modern high-tech division in the U.S. Army was supposed to go there. A force like that, maybe with extra add-ons, could have opened up a real northern front and put pressure on the Baghdad regime from the north.

Since that doesn't exist, that's given the Saddam Hussein regime leeway to take all of these paramilitary forces and to shove them down in the south.

BROWN: Right.

GORDON: He doesn't have any northern pressure.

BROWN: Michael, you've thrown literally a lot at us, and I'm trying to digest some of it.

Let me ask you just for a quick answer on this. You said early on in our conversation that a lot of the strategy was based on an assumption that the Iraqi forces really wouldn't fight very hard or very well.

Are you surprised at how it has played out in the south?

GORDON: Well, I think that the -- in a nutshell, I think that the plan that exists is based on assumptions about the utility of air power, so-called "shock and awe," an overused term if there ever was one. It was based on an assumption that, even though this forces are smaller than the one that was in Desert Storm, its combat capabilities are much greater because of the weaponry that's more advanced and the forces were more joined, more integrated among the different services. And I think it was based on a political assumption. I think the political assumption made in Washington was that the regime was very fragile and that the -- much, if not most, of Iraqi society would be more proactive in trying to get rid of the regime.

And some of those assumptions now are being tested. I don't want to say that they're wrong, but it's not clear that they're right either.

Speaking of myself, I would say that I did not anticipate, in anything I wrote or thought about, that there would be this level of -- this type of Iraqi resistance, involving these paramilitaries, and I frankly don't know of anyone else who did...

BROWN: Right.

GORDON: ... either. But, you know, I remember I had a conversation with Captain Dewes (ph), who is the captain of a Navy vessel in the Persian Gulf, and it was last November. And we were talking about the Iraqi military capabilities, and I asked him what most concerned him.

And he said that what most concerned him was the Iraqi threat that we hadn't thought of yet. I think that's really what's come to pass.

This is what the military here calls a sinking enemy. And as they like to put it, you know, you can put together the best plan in the world that you have, but the enemy has a vote.

BROWN: That's right.

GORDON: The Iraqis have a vote, and the U.S. has to adjust.

BROWN: Michael, as always, thank you. I hope we'll talk to you tomorrow. Michael Gordon, he's the chief military affairs writer for "The New York Times", giving us a broad view of the problems and the changes over the course of the day.

A micro view of all of this, if you will. A huge supply of diesel fuel managed to make its way from the northern part of Kuwait to the U.S. troops who need it.

Martin Savidge is embedded with the forces who are there to protect the supply line. He's with the 1st Battalion of the 7th Marines.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Commanders with the 1st Battalion 7th Marines, who we are embedded with say that, yes, they have had a problem with guerrilla tactics that have been employed against the supply lines that stretch all the way down into northern Kuwait.

(voice-over): Everything is coming up from there. That includes the fuel, that includes the ammunition, that includes the food, and of course, the personnel and equipment.

Yesterday, for the 1st Marine Division, it was fuel that was critical. In fact, so much so, they had to put a pause in operations as far as moving forward because they were running so short of fuel.

Last night, a mission came through. They are talking about a quarter of a million gallons of diesel fuel that needed to come up and come into this region. The problem is there are paramilitary units, according to U.S. commanders here, known as the Fedayeen, that have been launching hit and run tactics against the supply line.

That's bad enough, but imagine if they hit the fuel tankers. Not only is that a critical supply that's needed, but the explosive force of fuel tankers going up would be devastating.

So the 1st Battalion 7th Marines in this area was given the job, make sure that the Fedayeen did not get to those critical fuel tankers that were coming in. All night long, it was a running battle that took place along the supply lines.

You had U.S. Marines in armored vehicles and in Humvees, working in almost complete darkness, firing against opposing forces that were firing in. Gunshots ringing out in the middle of the night. RPGs lacing their way across the roadway. And then the return fire from the U.S. Marines trying to suppress, as they say, the fire that was coming towards the convoy.

But it was pitch dark. There was confusion. For many Marines, this was their first time, really, in combat. You had vehicles working in extremely difficult terrain: marsh lands, deep trenches, and in many cases, just rivers and back waters.

The armored vehicle that we were riding in ran into a Humvee. Then a short time later, another armored vehicle slammed into the side of us. And then even later after that, our armored vehicle ran into a house. Fortunately, nobody was home.

But it shows you the difficult conditions, combined with the guerrilla tactics that the Marines are up against here.

When daylight showed itself here finally, there were at least three of the armored vehicles that were upended in ditches and trenches. But for the U.S. Marines, the most important fact is this. The fuel got through, which now means the Marines can continue to move north.

(on camera): Martin Savidge, CNN, southern Iraq.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Lost Marty for a couple days. Good to see him.

Brent Sadler, on the telephone, has made his way to some of those paratroopers, who were dropping just a few moments ago. We'll talk to him in a moment.

A break first. Our coverage continues in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: When last we talked to Brent Sadler, he was standing, watching American paratroopers landing in northern Iraq. He has made his way to them now. Brent's on the telephone -- Brent.

BRENT SADLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, yes, I had to confirm that 1,000 paratroopers dropped about six hours ago from the 173rd Airborne Brigade. They are now on the ground right here, just a few yards away from them, and they're now starting to dig in foxholes, building a perimeter security around the air strip. It's called Hariyah. It's about 30 miles from Erbil.

It's a clear day today. It was a clean parachute drop. Ten sticks of 100 men. And each stick came about 1 a.m. in the morning, local time. The paratroopers are now digging into this wet, heavy, clay earth and getting themselves established. Now, I'm watching here about ten dugouts being prepared.

I'm looking to the distance, quite incredible. I can see groups of paratroopers coming in from the drop line, where they came in several hours ago. Groups of about 50 men, 30, 40, 50 men coming from many directions in front of me. And really carrying their parachute packs and their equipment and starting to establish a foothold on the ground here.

I was just talking to Sergeant First Class Jason Geringer and Staff Sergeant Joe Phelps (ph) from the 173rd. They told me it was a clean drop. They said that they were very -- the adrenaline was rushing. It was high before they jumped out of the aircraft.

They came down. No hostile fire, obviously, because this is friendly territory. But it is a very rock-strewn area. So the troops on the ground were telling me that they had bumps and bruises.

BROWN: Brent, wait one second. This -- We're showing this tape now of the drop. It's very grainy, and it's very quick. But this is literally coming in now. We're seeing it together for the first time from one of our embeds. You can see the paratroopers moving along the ripcord line, if that's the right term, and going out the door of that plane and landing in the area where Brent Sadler is reporting from.

Maybe, David, we can -- we've got a little more here as it goes by. Again, Brent, you can't see this, I know. But we have this night grainy videophone, but clear enough to see exactly what is happening on board that plane as these guys rush, it looks like, rush to the door of the plane and jump out, parachutes on backs, helmets on, ready to make that landing as they prepare the northern front.

This is the very early, early stages of the northern front. This area had been -- if you were with us last night, you saw some of the air work that had been done to prepare the area, and now you can see the next stage in that, which is to bring the first wave of paratroopers in. They appear to be moving out both sides of the airplane. And, again, these pictures are coming back to us. They left from a base in Europe, made the drop. Plane came back, and that's why now some six hours or so after the paratroopers landed in the area, where Brent Sadler is, we can show you the pictures.

And they're pulling in all those lines that -- that's something to look at, isn't that? I go back to the conversation we had a little bit ago with Don Hewitt. They're closing up the door of the plane. Their work is done. And they're heading back home. And the paratroopers have landed where Brent Sadler is standing right now.

Brent, I wish you could have seen it. It was almost a perfect moment. Your reporting and the pictures just coming in live, on our television.

SADLER: Well, I'll tell you Aaron, I wish you could see what I'm seeing here. Very calm situation as I'm watching these paratroopers dig into their positions. I've just been shaking hands with some of the troopers. They look very, very happy, very relaxed, as I was saying earlier.

There's a lot of rocks in the drop zone so some of the paratroopers have got bumps and bruises. Just maybe one sprained ankle, one of the troop commanders are telling me here. But nothing -- nothing terribly serious.

Just to repeat, from those aircraft scenes you were just showing on air, 1,000 of them dropped out of the sky in a very dramatic parachute drop into this airstrip, which was built in the early 1980s. It's actually a disused airstrip, and the paratroopers are within a mile of the actual tarmac.

And really, just coming from many directions, coming in from the drop line and gathering and looking very pleased with themselves. They came down in groups of 10 -- of 100, rather. They're called sticks. So ten sticks, 100 men in each stick. That's 1,000.

And they're on the ground here digging in, calm, friendly territory, and Kurdish fighters are also in this area, and obviously a lot of coordination and liaison going on.

But really quite remarkable to see just how well this operation is going. And the calm, methodical way, the way the training works here. The boys on the ground came in here six hours ago, and now digging heavy mud to get themselves organized. Amazing.

BROWN: Brent, stay on it. And we'll get more detail on it. The detail on this is just terrific. Thank you. Brent Sadler at the drop site, not from far from an air base.

Tom Nybo was the producer/cameraman who shot those pictures. And he joins us from a base in Europe now.

Tom, that's a terrific piece of work. What was it like aboard that plane a few hours ago? TOM NYBO, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: I've never experienced anything like it. These guys, they're 19, 20 years old. This is their first time in a situation jumping into combat. In fact, it was the first time that the brigade had done a combat jump since Vietnam.

It was absolutely electrifying. They actually had to strap me with my camera at the back of the plane. And all the guys were all gung-ho leading up to the jump, and the day of the jump and the minutes leading up to it, I spoke to every one of them, and you could see a little bit fear in each and every one of their eyes.

And then when the doors opened, the entire cabin filled with air, just swirling around. And they did the hands count-down, and they started shooting people out.

I don't know if you really got a sense of it with the video, but it lasted about one minute, and they got all but three jumpers out. One guy got tripped up, and so the two jump masters couldn't go. But they got 97 guys out in about 60 seconds.

BROWN: I can tell you that we can see it. Even in the graininess of the videocam, we can see it really well. And you get a sense of how quickly it happened. They're almost running up to that door.

NYBO: It was really strange in the sense that it was -- there was complete darkness. As the minutes approached leading up to the jump, they actually cut the lights in the cabin, and I had to go to the night camera effect on the camera to get it. They just had the red light to try to make it less visible to anyone on the ground that might try to target them.

And so the only lights that we could see were the lights of towns on the ground and the faint red light, and then everyone just shot out, heading straight into darkness.

BROWN: See if we can re-rack that and look at it one more time.

Is there -- does the jump master say anything that starts it all off? Is there a hand signal that's given? How does it -- how do they know when to start?

NYBO: Well, basically, it was a long flight. It was about a four-hour flight there. And the guys slept most of the way. And then the big moment is 20 minutes beforehand.

Actually, about two hours beforehand, they rig up. They get everything on the lines. They get their rucks in front of them. Each man carries about a 60-pound rucksack and also an M-4 rifle. And so the count down begins at two hours.

And then at 20 minutes, everything really heats up. And at about 10 minutes, they switch to the red light. And then they do the hand signals, and then it's go.

Yesterday, we actually went through a dry run on the plane, went through it about three or four times. So they knew the drill. The only difference was this was complete darkness. It was over northern Iraq. And this was the real thing.

BROWN: It certainly was. Tom, terrific, terrific work for you. And we're glad that these guys made it down. Really nice job. Thank you very much.

I need to get back to Brent Sadler, who's at the site where they dropped.

And, Brent, you've done -- you've got some of these guys with you, is that right?

SADLER: That's absolutely right, Aaron. I'm standing next to Sergeant First Class Jason Geringer, who's really overlooking the beginnings of these dugouts. I'm going to put him on to you now, and perhaps you'd like to have a word with him.

BROWN: I would indeed. What was it like? Well, let me get him...

SGT. 1ST CLASS JASON GERINGER, 173RD AIRBORNE: Good morning.

BROWN: Good morning to you. First of all, we're glad you're safely on the ground. This is beginning of it all for you.

What was it like when that door opened and you started moving down that line?

GERINGER: Well, for me, I was fortunate enough to be a jump master, and I got to stand in the door for about three minutes and watch the approach in. And as I exited the jumpers out, it was an incredible feeling of adrenaline to see those paratroopers leave the doors and for me to leave after them, and then see the chutes in the air. So it was a quite invigorating.

BROWN: Sergeant, you've probably done this drill, I would imagine hundreds of times in your life. Did it feel all together different, or is it exactly the way the training goes?

GERINGER: It is exactly the way the training. There was no difference. Just different terrain in a different location was the only difference for us.

BROWN: Would you, through the course of this four-hour plane ride or however long it was, would you walk up and down the plane and make sure that your guys, who I assume are younger than you, less experienced than you, that they were OK?

GERINGER: Well, that's part of our jobs as noncommissioned officers. We ensure that everybody's confident on what they're doing. If we have to give them a pep talk, we do. Get their equipment ready to go and just make sure that they feel that they're part of the team. And everything just goes just as we train.

That's why, you know, we're able to do what we do because the training is no different than we're executing down here in northern Iraq.

BROWN: I know you can't talk too much about what you're going to do, and I'm not going to ask you anything about what you're going to do. Just tell me how hard your heart was beating. Was it thumping pretty good?

GERINGER: It definitely was thumping more than normal. So it -- I had a lot of thoughts going through my mind and a lot of emotions, and my heart rate was up there.

BROWN: And when you jump out of the plane, you were the last one out. Are you able to -- is it so dark that you can't see anything, or were you able to see the chutes of the other soldiers who had already gotten out?

GERINGER: I was able to see some of the soldiers as they were coming out. And it was a dark. It was a moonless night. And we hit the ground pretty quick. And then right from there, we just executed our on the ground mission, and here we are.

BROWN: And, again, does that go just according to the way that you all have trained for it for weeks and months, and I suppose in some cases, years? When you hit the ground, everyone knows exactly what they're supposed to do so that everyone's accounted for?

GERINGER: That's it. Just like I said before, the training is -- wherever we do the training elsewhere is no different than we do it in combat. And it went just as smooth this morning with no complications and no problems.

BROWN: How long from the time you jump out of the airplane to the time you hit the ground? How long does that take?

GERINGER: It depends on the altitude. I'm not quite sure the exact altitude we were at last night. But the ground came up pretty quickly.

BROWN: It did come up pretty quickly. Everybody OK on the ground?

GERINGER: Everybody's OK. Just a few bumps and bruises. And everybody is good to go.

BROWN: Sergeant, you take care of yourself and take care of your men.

GERINGER: Thank you very much, sir.

BROWN: Thank you very much. That's something. You take care of yourself.

We'll take a break and be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK) BROWN: We've had some remarkable moments in our nights together over the last week, racing through the desert with Walt Rodgers that one night, the night we watched the British pool report. And just now, having a conversation with First Sergeant Jason Geringer, who had, just a short time before, jumped out of that airplane. His description of that, while watching the pictures of that, is as memorable as anything ever. That's something.

Miles O'Brien is with us tonight, and General Clark's over at the map table. They'll put a lot of what we've been talking about over the last bit of time in perspective - gentlemen.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, I just got bowled over by those pictures, as I'm sure General Clark has been as well. Let me orient you about the destination for the 173rd Airborne, this tiny airfield in a place called Harir (ph) in northern Iraq. This is, of course, a part of the world that is controlled not by Saddam Hussein, but by the Kurds, protected by that no-fly zone, that northern no-fly zone, which goes right about there.

Let's zoom in and show you exactly where those paratroopers were headed toward as they jumped out in that dramatic fashion in the middle of the night. It's not much of an airfield, but it's really all that this group needs. And I want to bring in General Clark. There you see very rugged mountains along this area up in the Kurdish country. And right down here is that air strip. That was their destination as Brent Sadler told you. He has that air strip in sight now. They're digging in around there, building their foxholes, hunkering down. This particular field will become a waypoint, a transit station, if you will.

General Clark, how significant is it?

GEN. WESLEY CLARK, FMR. NATO SUPREME CMDR. (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, I think it's a very significant action because it does insert our forces into the area. And we've needed them there, and now they're there.

O'BRIEN: What happens from here, though? Will this become a bustling base or just a transit point for infantry moves to the south? What will happen here?

CLARK: For a while, it will be a bustling base, Miles. And the troops will secure it, will start bringing in equipment there, will use it as what's called an air head. Later, as the offensive rolls, we'll probably occupy a better air field in one of the major cities that's still under Iraqi control. But that comes later. For now, this is the air head.

O'BRIEN: I've got to ask you, as you look at these pictures, what's what goes through your mind as someone who has commanded troops in the field?

CLARK: Well, two things. Number one, it's a great badge of honor. When you make a combat jump and you get a gold star on your jump rings, it's one of the greatest things that can happen to you as a soldier. Secondly, I feel bad for the guy who got tangled up in his equipment. I've seen it happen, and it's not pleasant.

O'BRIEN: Yeah. I did notice that. So I guess he had to go home, huh?

CLARK: Don't know. I've seen them just roll out the door.

O'BRIEN: Really. Oh, gosh. Oh, my gosh. Of course, we know that everybody landed safely there. But it's dramatic tape, and it really shows a lot of training and a lot of dedication, doesn't it?

CLARK: It's a great unit. It's got a great tradition, and these are very well-trained soldiers. This is a U.S./European command, U.S. Army/Europe's reaction force.

O'BRIEN: Now there are a couple of other fields, as we go back to our satellite imagery. We can show you a couple of other fields that are of significance in this part of the world - in this Kurdish- controlled part of the world. This one, Al Sulaymaniyah (ph), and I probably didn't pronounce that entirely correctly, is another one that might be a focus of airborne troops in the future. We don't know for sure yet, though, do we, General Clark?

CLARK: We don't. We don't know whether we will have one and that will be enough or we'll want another one.

O'BRIEN: And as we pull up, you can see the strategic significance of this. Of course, it's worth reminding our viewers, it was hoped that Turkey would provide a passageway for the 4th Infantry, heavy ground troops to come through. And instead, it's light airborne, and that does change the battle plan quite significantly. You see where we came from to where we're going there. That was where we were, and that's Baghdad. Obviously, that's a significant part of the world. How much does this set back Tommy Franks' plan?

CLARK: Well, you know, not having the 4th Infantry Division up there in the north is probably a - let's just take a percentage figure, 30 to 40 percent problem at the outset. But now this force is going to change it, and it takes a little more time. It may have slowed them down a little bit. But not putting the 4th Infantry Division, it wasn't a decisive setback at all. And with the right kind of force here and putting the airborne troopers in and then bringing heavy armor behind it, bringing the rest of those reinforcing forces up from Kuwait, this plan will roll.

O'BRIEN: General Wesley Clark, we'll watch it roll with you. Thank you very much. Appreciate it - Aaron.

BROWN: Miles, General, thank you very much. We'll take a short break. Our coverage continues in a minute.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: It's been a pretty remarkable hour-and-a-half that we've spent with you since 10:00 Eastern time. Among the things we want to gauge tonight is the mood in a couple of places, the United States, of course, and in Kuwait as well because it's a part of the Arab community. It is in an interesting spot. There's not always a great comfort with the fact that there are a lot of American soldiers in the country, causes some problems over there as well. Daryn Kagan joins us now. She's been trying to get a sense of how the people in Kuwait are feeling. And she joins us from Kuwait City this morning.

It's nice to see you again.

DARYN KAGAN, CNNfn CORRESPONDENT: Good morning. Let me say good Thursday morning to you, Aaron, from here in Kuwait City. Keep in mind the border to Iraq just about 50 miles over my shoulders there. Decided to head out yesterday and get a sense of how folks in Kuwait City are doing, if they're staying home, if they're heading back to the malls, back to the streets. Here's what we found.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN (voice over): This is probably the only place in the Arab world where you'll see a demonstration in support of American and British troops. This is Kuwait. What's also significant about this scene from Tuesday night is that the people here now feel safe enough to leave their homes again.

Kuwaitis are taking to the street and taking back their lives. That also means getting back to everyday chores like going to the market.

(on camera): This is Sultan Center (ph) in Kuwait City, picture a supermarket on the bottom floor, a department store on the top floor. Basically, if you need to buy it they have it here.

(voice over): The store shelves are a welcome relief for Kuwaitis who have spent days glued to their television sets.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Actually, first three days, I was scared. I was staying at home doing nothing, just gazing at the stream of TV and this stuff. But not anymore. Not anymore. And I decided to go out, see my friends, sit in cafes and come here to Sultan Center shopping district (ph). Just act normally.

KAGAN (on camera): Time to get back to your regular life.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, we need it.

KAGAN (voice over): Missile warning sirens are still a regular part of life here. Iraq has launched at least 12 missiles at Kuwait since the war started. Most were shot down by Patriot missiles. Others fell into the desert or the sea. The threat, though, doesn't seem to phase the people we talked with.

KAGAN (on camera): You say you don't even go to a shelter at this point or anything?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, no. Nothing.

KAGAN: But those are real missiles that are coming in. Those aren't just false alarms. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. I mean, whatever's going to happen is going to happen. And I think we're taken good care of.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The first two days, we were - I was at work, and they were at home. So the first thing that I did, I called them and told them to make sure that they go downstairs, and they will be beneath the stairway. And that's where we have our area. But then the - then we begin to be more comfortable, that basically we're not panicking. And they were doing a good job, the girls.

KAGAN (voice over): Another sign that life is getting back to normal. These girls will head back to school on Saturday, after a week off due to the war. The Kuwait Department of the Interior says more than 50,000 people left the country in anticipation of the war. But with life getting back to normal, some are beginning to come back. that won't be hard.

By last Thursday, almost all commercial airlines had stopped flying in and out of here. But now airport traffic is almost back to normal, even with war planes dropping bombs just across the border.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

We say that airport traffic is back to normal, I want to clarify there. All the airlines are not flying in and out of here yet, Aaron. European airlines have not chosen to start up their service. But a number of flights and airport traffic is back up to normal.

Also one other note. In the media here, you can see some people like political scientists coming out and being critical of the speed of the war, saying this was supposed to go a lot more quickly. But just from what I found on going out into the streets and the stores, I couldn't find a single Kuwaiti who would express that, saying they're comfortable with how it's going and as you can see, comfortable in getting back to their everyday lives.

BROWN: In terms of what we could see, we ought to explain that which we can and cannot see. It looks a little less sandy today behind you than it was 24 hours ago. We can just make out the towers.

KAGAN: You can. OK. Yes, it is better. And I think you can definitely tell it's not blowing as much. But we do get word that another sandstorm could be on its way within the next couple of hours. So stay tuned for that. If it happens, we'll show it to you here live from Kuwait City.

BROWN: Daryn, thank you. You'll be with us a lot in the next couple of hours. Thank you very much.

On the subject of mood and how people are feeling about things, double duty tonight for our senior political analyst, Bill Schneider. He is here to talk about British opinion, what it means to Tony Blair, the British prime minister who meets with the president. And also and first where this country is, where the United States is now a week into the war. It's in a couple of interesting places, I think. WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, it is. Daryn mentioned just now that the Kuwaitis, many of them were expecting a quick war, some of the Americans were too. And after an initial day of euphoria in the United States, a mood of sober realism has set in. And you can see in these poll numbers, day by day, over the last four days. On Saturday, 62 percent of Americans said the United States - the war was going very well so far. That dropped to 44 percent on Sunday, and down to 32 and 37 percent Monday and Tuesday.

BROWN: Now, perhaps this will be helpful. Up until Saturday, what we had seen essentially was the race into Iraq.

SCHNEIDER: Yes.

BROWN: What we saw on Sunday were casualties and POWs. Now if we can just put the numbers up again to look at what one day's news cycle did to people's perception is pretty dramatic to me. I mean, you're not talking about a little onesie here and a twosie there, that is a big drop.

SCHNEIDER: That is a big drop. But here's something that did not drop in line with those numbers, morale. We asked people each of those days, do you support war with Iraq? And these numbers, vary very little. You see on Saturday it was 74. Sunday, a few points lower, 70. Monday, 69. Tuesday, back up to 73. What that suggests is on the home front in the United States, even though people feel the war is a lot slower than they would like, the mood of sober realism has set in, the home front morale is holding up.

You know, Aaron, there's this theory that as body bags begin to come in, Americans will lose faith in the war, that that will destroy home front morale. That really isn't true. What really destroys home front morale and creates a problem for military venture like this is the sense that there isn't a clear mission and there's no strategy for achieving that mission. That was the problem in Vietnam and even more the problem in Somalia. It doesn't seem to be a problem with this war, where Americans see a mission and a strategy.

BROWN: And you'll forgive me if I just say, again, one week into the war. In the same way that I think it's a little wacky to be making broad criticisms of the war plan a week into the war, it's probably - you know, this polling stuff far better than I. I don't want to seem like an expert here. I'm not. But we're a week into it, there's been an incredible concentration of coverage. People have been incredibly focused on it. I just - I guess, in my mind, I'm pretty cautious about how to read any of this except the daily swings seem to be tied to the news cycle.

SCHNEIDER: Let me give you an example. When we asked people, do you think going into this war was a mistake? The answer was exactly the same as we got back in 1965 when Americans made a major troop commitment in Vietnam. You know how long it took a majority of Americans to decide that Vietnam was a mistake? Three years. It wasn't until the middle of 1968. Three years later that Americans finally decided this wasn't a good idea. BROWN: Now, the British prime minister is in town. We were talking earlier this evening that in all of this, the last several months, Tony Blair and - has been among the most interesting characters because he has been so steadfast despite public opinion in his country, which is extremely negative.

SCHNEIDER: Well, the question is what drives Tony Blair? Why is he one of the few world leaders to risk his political career to stand shoulder to shoulder with President Bush?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice over): Tony Blair and Bill Clinton? That's easy to get. Skilled politicians leading left of center parties. But Tony Blair and George W. Bush? What's that about? It's not about ideology. Blair and Bush have vastly different political values. It doesn't seem to be personal. In background, style, and personality, the two leaders have nothing in common. Well, almost nothing.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We both use Colgate toothpaste.

SCHNEIDER: Blair's alliance with Bush seems to endanger his own political interests. Sure, other world leaders support Bush, but they're conservatives, like President Aznar of Spain and President Berlusconi of Italy. The war is not popular in Blair's Labour Party.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We should not go in that direction.

SCHNEIDER: Blair has long been seen as a calculating poll-driven politician, not a man of conviction. But every poll before this week showed war with Iraq was widely unpopular in Britain. Blair bravely confronted his critics. In the end, Blair took his country into war and look at what's happened. The polls turned around in Blair's favor. Instead of being led by the polls, Blair led the polls. Maybe Blair is a man of conviction. He sees Britain's national security as inextricably linked to the United States.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

Many Europeans would like to see Europe divided from the United States, a check on U.S. power, a Europe, in effect, united by anti- Americanism. Blair is convinced that that's dangerous, and by joining with Bush, he has set out to make sure it doesn't happen.

BROWN: And he finds himself this week in a position of trying to bridge a gap, in some respects, between the strong feelings of the continent and the equally strong feelings of the American president.

SCHNEIDER: That's right. He is against the idea that France will lead a new united Europe, which is basically setting itself up to be the check on American power. He thinks that's a disaster because Europe really has no military power.

BROWN: Now, I want to go back just for a minute here, before we go to break, in breaking out the polling, there's one - well, there's probably more than one. We saw a significant disparity between Democrats and Republicans. But even a more dramatic disparity in another area.

SCHNEIDER: That's right. We certainly - what we saw is a very sharp decline in support for this war among African-Americans. If you compare their support for the Gulf War in 1991, it was 60 percent. And now their support for the war in Iraq is down to 30 percent. Among whites, the level of support is almost exactly the same. I think that difference, that 30 percent, that low figure has a lot to do with African-Americans' hostility to President Bush. A lot of blacks suspect - since they don't see an overwhelmingly convincing reason for this war, they suspect that the war is being fought for political reasons because they see Bush as driven by political calculation.

BROWN: And African-Americans, what? about 9 percent of the vote, the president's vote in the last election was an African-American vote?

SCHNEIDER: Actually, 9 percent of African-Americans voted for him.

BROWN: I'm sorry. Yes.

I'm sorry And he's setting out - look, he has major foreign policy advisers. His secretary of state, his national security advisor are both African-Americans. That doesn't seem to have made any difference.

BROWN: Bill, thank you very much. Come back again soon. Bill Schneider, our senior political analyst. We'll take a break. Our coverage continues in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Heading toward midnight here in the East, we're glad you're with us again tonight. General Wesley Clark is with us too.

General, I just want to go back and look at those paratroopers a second. Have you ever been in one of those planes when that's going on?

CLARK: Yes, I have.

BROWN: What's it like? What does it sound like? What does it feel like?

CLARK: Well, first of all, everybody sleeps on the way to the drop zone.

BROWN: How do they sleep?

CLARK: You're strapped in. You can't move. You've got tons of equipment on. And you learn to sleep. When there's nothing else you can do, you sleep. It may be the last chance to get some good rest. You're probably tired and worn out from trying to get ready and sitting around. And you're just glad to get on the airplane.

BROWN: Do they eat just before they get on the plane? I mean, I guess I want to know all the detail of what it's like.

CLARK: I don't know what this particular time line...

BROWN: Are there seats on the plane?

CLARK: Yes. There are canvas bench seats on the aircraft. I'm not sure on this aircraft. That's probably what it is. They're usually rigged that way because you've got to have enough space that you can get all your gear. You've got the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) bag in front of you. You've got your parachute on. You've got your reserve chute. You've got your combat gear. And you've got your helmet, of course. And it's uncomfortable.

BROWN: And then they almost seem to be racing to the door, just coming down that line, racing to jump out, racing to jump out, one after another. Is it noisy? Are they - obviously, the wind's blowing through.

CLARK: It's noisy, but you don't hear anything. You do a drill, stand up, you hook up, and there's a set count. You check equipment. You count down, and people are touching the guy in front you. You're back to belly in this thing. And when it starts moving, you start your feet moving, and the whole - we call it a stick, which is the line of people coming out that door. It starts moving from the back, and you're going out that door. I mean, it's that - it's pushed because the plane's moving at a certain rate of speed, and the faster you can get people out that door, the closer they're concentrated on the ground, which helps in the defense. It helps in forming up the unit afterwards. And so you want to get everybody out as rapidly as possible.

BROWN: Now it's pitch black out there. The one thing that First Sergeant Geringer said, you've probably done this a hundred times or dozens of times in training. Was it any different? Now, he's a sergeant, and he knows how to answer these sorts of questions. To be honest with you, he said, no, it's just like we trained it all the time. That must have made a guy like you burst with pride.

CLARK: I'm really proud of those guys. Of course, it's a great privilege to be in the Airborne. A lot of people want it. It's tough to get in there. I was an armor officer. And so there was just a very small slice of people...

BROWN: Excuse me. What is this happening here? this sort of clump of -- can we lose the banner a second? I'm not sure if we can do this quickly enough, but what is all that?

CLARK: Looks like the rip cord is being - that's the top of the parachute. The parachute is attached to a wire inside the aircraft. And the wire actually opens up the parachute. And it leaves the cover attached to the wire. And so that's the remains of the parachutes being pulled back in the aircraft. BROWN: Thank you. That whole sequence was unbelievable. We say a lot - we know some of you don't normally watch the NEWSNIGHT program. NEWSNIGHT has this great affection for still photos, and a another view of the war now seen through the lens of "Time" magazine photographer Christopher Morris. Chris is traveling with the 3rd Infantry Division, 3rd Brigade. Some of the pictures you're about to see will appear in the next issue of "Time" magazine, next week's issue. He spoke with us on a satellite phone after an exhausting day in central Iraq.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CHRISTOPHER MORRIS, "TIME": This is Christopher Morris working for "Time" magazine with the 3rd Infantry Division who intend to (UNINTELLIGIBLE) somewhere leading north. It doesn't really say. The soldiers, they have high morale. They feel they have a job to do. They've been moving since we crossed over from Kuwait.

He was accused of being a soldier. He was pulled away from the people he was traveling with because he was wearing green army pants, and they arrested him. They detained him and they sent the vehicle with all the people he was traveling with. They turned them back, made them go away. And when they realized - that was when he was realizing that he was being arrested, and the people he was with were being taken away.

The last couple days (UNINTELLIGIBLE), we slowed down a little. But yesterday there was a storm of like biblical proportions. You really felt like you were on the red planet. The winds were almost hurricane force if felt, with the sand and then the rain came. Several of the soldiers in the group said it was the worst night they've ever had in the Army.

There was also at one point where there were 10 Iraqis supposedly with RPGs and guns that were approaching our site, trying to flank us where we were on the side of the road. So a patrol went out to try to find them. And at one point, a farmer's vehicle approached with a farmer and his two - I'm not sure of the relationship. But there was a young boy, a four-year-old boy in the car. But the soldiers came at the car and basically removed them from the car. And what struck me was fear on these people's face. The young boy was visibly shaken. He put his hands in the air. And he just - that was the most poignant thing, at least that I saw in the last day or so, outside of the weather.

They're very unprepared to deal with the culture that they're entering. They haven't been prepared in that sense. They've been prepared how to fight, but they haven't been prepared I feel that where they're fighting by the questions they ask at the checkpoints. They're not in Missouri. They're not in Arkansas. They're in Iraq.

Originally there was this real suspicion that everybody they pulled out of the cars had large wads of money in their pockets. And the American soldiers at first thought that was very suspicious, that they would have big wads of money. But they don't realize at the exchange rate, it's like 12,000 to the dollar, so basically, they're pulling out - these people maybe have $3 or $4 in their pockets. To these American soldiers, it looks like they have hundreds of dollars.

Everybody's on a high state of alert. So I think they understand where they are and the dangers that lie ahead for them, yes, absolutely.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BROWN: Christopher Morris, shooting pictures for "Time" magazine. We said yesterday we'd benefit enormously by our relationship with "The New York Times." We benefit enormously by our relationship with "Time" magazine as well. What a spectacular set of pictures we saw there.

A short break, our coverage continues.

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Aired March 26, 2003 - 23:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, ANCHOR: The hour went by. That first hour went by pretty quickly. Among the things still to come in the hours ahead, between now and 2 a.m., we'll talk with Tom Friedman, the columnist for "The New York Times", one of the great -- a guy who has done extraordinary reporting on the region and now is a columnist. And we'll talk with him a little bit later.
I think Michael Gordon's on the phone. Is that where you want me to go? OK. Michael Gordon joins us, as he has for the last several nights. Michael is the chief military affairs writer for "The New York Times." He's at Camp Doha in Kuwait. I believe he's still there.

Michael, good evening to you. What's the lead on this day?

MICHAEL GORDON, "THE NEW YORK TIMES:" Well, I think we really have two things going on. One, there is the air drop of the 173rd in northern Iraq, which was notable, but really a poor substitute for the northern front the military originally had in mind, which was supposed to be a lot bigger and more powerful than this.

And then there's still some very messy fighting in the south between American forces, British forces on the one hand, and the paramilitaries from the Saddam Hussein regime on the other. It seems to be escalating in the south. Not quieting down.

BROWN: It seems to be escalating, did you say?

GORDON: Yes. It seems that -- you know, really the -- yesterday we talked about how the Iraqi strategy had been to infiltrate the American rear with hit and run attacks and sort of guerrilla tactics. And the military had been forced pretty much to put the Baghdad battle on hold temporarily and turn its focus to the south and to try to clean out the cities in the south of these paramilitaries. And that's what they're doing now.

But the -- what's happening is the Saddam Hussein regime is not flinching from this, and they've been sending down reinforcements from Baghdad. There were a number of fire fights and pretty sharp, you know, engagements over the course of the evening.

And so it looks like this piece of the south is becoming pretty messy. BROWN: I know from all of our conversations, you tend to view these things somewhat conservatively. But does it seem to you that what, I think, a lot of people thought was a war that might take weeks, might now take at the very least -- well, might take months?

GORDON: I find it hard to make any kind of prediction about this war, since it's such an unusual war. And the way it is organized, to my mind, violates all the previously well-tested and time-honored procedures for how to go about having a war.

I mean, when we did the last Gulf War, they assembled an overwhelming force. There was a backup in theater, not on ships headed this way. It was Colin Powell's doctrine that was in place.

And when they began the air campaign, they didn't stop and start. There was a persistent, relentless air campaign, the purpose of which was to put pressure on and keep it on.

This thing is a lot different from that. The forces, I consider to be, just a personal judgment -- not speaking on behalf of anybody -- but an inadequate force at best. On certain political assumptions, those being that the Iraqis don't fight too much.

And so now those assumptions, the political assumptions that the Pentagon has made, are being tested. And I don't -- I would be loathe to suggest this could go on for months, necessarily.

But the question I have in my mind is -- and, again, it's just a personal view, not really informed by anything anybody's told me here -- but will they proceed to go begin the Baghdad battle, or will they await some of these reinforcements that are headed this way?

The forces were originally being sent as part of the stabilization force, the post post-war force that was going to control the country. But you could just as easily use them as reinforcements for an offensive campaign.

BROWN: Are there risks to waiting?

GORDON: To my mind, there are more risks to rushing ahead. I know that seems to go against everything that the Bush administration is orchestrating here because they've done this in a very -- they're looking for a very quick resolution of this, and it's almost hurried, in my view.

But they -- really, the design of this campaign, as it's supposed to be intense, short, and over quickly. I can understand the diplomatic rationale for that. I really doubt that Kuwait wants to host American troops for a very long period of time. They're exposed in the Arab world. I think there are a lot of reasons why you wouldn't want a prolonged conflict, and I'm not advocating one.

But I think to try to put together a Baghdad attack without having, well, at least some sort of reserve in place, to my mind, is -- also has some risks. Now, I'm not speaking for the generals in any way, and I think they will make the ultimate judgments as to what they can do and when.

I think that there really has to be two requirements. I mean, I think one is that they have to get this situation in the south under control. I don't think that means they have to eliminate every last paramilitary guy, but they have to certainly reduce the level of resistance.

And I think the other requirement is they have to reduce the Republican Guard that's defending Baghdad through air power and bombings at some acceptable level so the whole weight of the effort for fighting through them doesn't fall on the ground forces.

I think this Turkey -- not Turkey development, but northern Iraq development with the dropping of the airborne is interesting, too. I mean, that's the first time there is a bit of a credible U.S. force in the north. But -- and that's a positive thing, from my point of view, and of American military planners. And it gives them new options. And they can build on that expand that.

But it's really a far cry from what was originally envisioned. I went on a trip with Paul Wolfowitz to Turkey in November, and when he sought to get permission to put American forces in there.

And at the time, they were thinking of a much more substantial force. It eventually became the 4th Infantry Division, which is really a mechanized division, the most modern high-tech division in the U.S. Army was supposed to go there. A force like that, maybe with extra add-ons, could have opened up a real northern front and put pressure on the Baghdad regime from the north.

Since that doesn't exist, that's given the Saddam Hussein regime leeway to take all of these paramilitary forces and to shove them down in the south.

BROWN: Right.

GORDON: He doesn't have any northern pressure.

BROWN: Michael, you've thrown literally a lot at us, and I'm trying to digest some of it.

Let me ask you just for a quick answer on this. You said early on in our conversation that a lot of the strategy was based on an assumption that the Iraqi forces really wouldn't fight very hard or very well.

Are you surprised at how it has played out in the south?

GORDON: Well, I think that the -- in a nutshell, I think that the plan that exists is based on assumptions about the utility of air power, so-called "shock and awe," an overused term if there ever was one. It was based on an assumption that, even though this forces are smaller than the one that was in Desert Storm, its combat capabilities are much greater because of the weaponry that's more advanced and the forces were more joined, more integrated among the different services. And I think it was based on a political assumption. I think the political assumption made in Washington was that the regime was very fragile and that the -- much, if not most, of Iraqi society would be more proactive in trying to get rid of the regime.

And some of those assumptions now are being tested. I don't want to say that they're wrong, but it's not clear that they're right either.

Speaking of myself, I would say that I did not anticipate, in anything I wrote or thought about, that there would be this level of -- this type of Iraqi resistance, involving these paramilitaries, and I frankly don't know of anyone else who did...

BROWN: Right.

GORDON: ... either. But, you know, I remember I had a conversation with Captain Dewes (ph), who is the captain of a Navy vessel in the Persian Gulf, and it was last November. And we were talking about the Iraqi military capabilities, and I asked him what most concerned him.

And he said that what most concerned him was the Iraqi threat that we hadn't thought of yet. I think that's really what's come to pass.

This is what the military here calls a sinking enemy. And as they like to put it, you know, you can put together the best plan in the world that you have, but the enemy has a vote.

BROWN: That's right.

GORDON: The Iraqis have a vote, and the U.S. has to adjust.

BROWN: Michael, as always, thank you. I hope we'll talk to you tomorrow. Michael Gordon, he's the chief military affairs writer for "The New York Times", giving us a broad view of the problems and the changes over the course of the day.

A micro view of all of this, if you will. A huge supply of diesel fuel managed to make its way from the northern part of Kuwait to the U.S. troops who need it.

Martin Savidge is embedded with the forces who are there to protect the supply line. He's with the 1st Battalion of the 7th Marines.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Commanders with the 1st Battalion 7th Marines, who we are embedded with say that, yes, they have had a problem with guerrilla tactics that have been employed against the supply lines that stretch all the way down into northern Kuwait.

(voice-over): Everything is coming up from there. That includes the fuel, that includes the ammunition, that includes the food, and of course, the personnel and equipment.

Yesterday, for the 1st Marine Division, it was fuel that was critical. In fact, so much so, they had to put a pause in operations as far as moving forward because they were running so short of fuel.

Last night, a mission came through. They are talking about a quarter of a million gallons of diesel fuel that needed to come up and come into this region. The problem is there are paramilitary units, according to U.S. commanders here, known as the Fedayeen, that have been launching hit and run tactics against the supply line.

That's bad enough, but imagine if they hit the fuel tankers. Not only is that a critical supply that's needed, but the explosive force of fuel tankers going up would be devastating.

So the 1st Battalion 7th Marines in this area was given the job, make sure that the Fedayeen did not get to those critical fuel tankers that were coming in. All night long, it was a running battle that took place along the supply lines.

You had U.S. Marines in armored vehicles and in Humvees, working in almost complete darkness, firing against opposing forces that were firing in. Gunshots ringing out in the middle of the night. RPGs lacing their way across the roadway. And then the return fire from the U.S. Marines trying to suppress, as they say, the fire that was coming towards the convoy.

But it was pitch dark. There was confusion. For many Marines, this was their first time, really, in combat. You had vehicles working in extremely difficult terrain: marsh lands, deep trenches, and in many cases, just rivers and back waters.

The armored vehicle that we were riding in ran into a Humvee. Then a short time later, another armored vehicle slammed into the side of us. And then even later after that, our armored vehicle ran into a house. Fortunately, nobody was home.

But it shows you the difficult conditions, combined with the guerrilla tactics that the Marines are up against here.

When daylight showed itself here finally, there were at least three of the armored vehicles that were upended in ditches and trenches. But for the U.S. Marines, the most important fact is this. The fuel got through, which now means the Marines can continue to move north.

(on camera): Martin Savidge, CNN, southern Iraq.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Lost Marty for a couple days. Good to see him.

Brent Sadler, on the telephone, has made his way to some of those paratroopers, who were dropping just a few moments ago. We'll talk to him in a moment.

A break first. Our coverage continues in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: When last we talked to Brent Sadler, he was standing, watching American paratroopers landing in northern Iraq. He has made his way to them now. Brent's on the telephone -- Brent.

BRENT SADLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, yes, I had to confirm that 1,000 paratroopers dropped about six hours ago from the 173rd Airborne Brigade. They are now on the ground right here, just a few yards away from them, and they're now starting to dig in foxholes, building a perimeter security around the air strip. It's called Hariyah. It's about 30 miles from Erbil.

It's a clear day today. It was a clean parachute drop. Ten sticks of 100 men. And each stick came about 1 a.m. in the morning, local time. The paratroopers are now digging into this wet, heavy, clay earth and getting themselves established. Now, I'm watching here about ten dugouts being prepared.

I'm looking to the distance, quite incredible. I can see groups of paratroopers coming in from the drop line, where they came in several hours ago. Groups of about 50 men, 30, 40, 50 men coming from many directions in front of me. And really carrying their parachute packs and their equipment and starting to establish a foothold on the ground here.

I was just talking to Sergeant First Class Jason Geringer and Staff Sergeant Joe Phelps (ph) from the 173rd. They told me it was a clean drop. They said that they were very -- the adrenaline was rushing. It was high before they jumped out of the aircraft.

They came down. No hostile fire, obviously, because this is friendly territory. But it is a very rock-strewn area. So the troops on the ground were telling me that they had bumps and bruises.

BROWN: Brent, wait one second. This -- We're showing this tape now of the drop. It's very grainy, and it's very quick. But this is literally coming in now. We're seeing it together for the first time from one of our embeds. You can see the paratroopers moving along the ripcord line, if that's the right term, and going out the door of that plane and landing in the area where Brent Sadler is reporting from.

Maybe, David, we can -- we've got a little more here as it goes by. Again, Brent, you can't see this, I know. But we have this night grainy videophone, but clear enough to see exactly what is happening on board that plane as these guys rush, it looks like, rush to the door of the plane and jump out, parachutes on backs, helmets on, ready to make that landing as they prepare the northern front.

This is the very early, early stages of the northern front. This area had been -- if you were with us last night, you saw some of the air work that had been done to prepare the area, and now you can see the next stage in that, which is to bring the first wave of paratroopers in. They appear to be moving out both sides of the airplane. And, again, these pictures are coming back to us. They left from a base in Europe, made the drop. Plane came back, and that's why now some six hours or so after the paratroopers landed in the area, where Brent Sadler is, we can show you the pictures.

And they're pulling in all those lines that -- that's something to look at, isn't that? I go back to the conversation we had a little bit ago with Don Hewitt. They're closing up the door of the plane. Their work is done. And they're heading back home. And the paratroopers have landed where Brent Sadler is standing right now.

Brent, I wish you could have seen it. It was almost a perfect moment. Your reporting and the pictures just coming in live, on our television.

SADLER: Well, I'll tell you Aaron, I wish you could see what I'm seeing here. Very calm situation as I'm watching these paratroopers dig into their positions. I've just been shaking hands with some of the troopers. They look very, very happy, very relaxed, as I was saying earlier.

There's a lot of rocks in the drop zone so some of the paratroopers have got bumps and bruises. Just maybe one sprained ankle, one of the troop commanders are telling me here. But nothing -- nothing terribly serious.

Just to repeat, from those aircraft scenes you were just showing on air, 1,000 of them dropped out of the sky in a very dramatic parachute drop into this airstrip, which was built in the early 1980s. It's actually a disused airstrip, and the paratroopers are within a mile of the actual tarmac.

And really, just coming from many directions, coming in from the drop line and gathering and looking very pleased with themselves. They came down in groups of 10 -- of 100, rather. They're called sticks. So ten sticks, 100 men in each stick. That's 1,000.

And they're on the ground here digging in, calm, friendly territory, and Kurdish fighters are also in this area, and obviously a lot of coordination and liaison going on.

But really quite remarkable to see just how well this operation is going. And the calm, methodical way, the way the training works here. The boys on the ground came in here six hours ago, and now digging heavy mud to get themselves organized. Amazing.

BROWN: Brent, stay on it. And we'll get more detail on it. The detail on this is just terrific. Thank you. Brent Sadler at the drop site, not from far from an air base.

Tom Nybo was the producer/cameraman who shot those pictures. And he joins us from a base in Europe now.

Tom, that's a terrific piece of work. What was it like aboard that plane a few hours ago? TOM NYBO, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: I've never experienced anything like it. These guys, they're 19, 20 years old. This is their first time in a situation jumping into combat. In fact, it was the first time that the brigade had done a combat jump since Vietnam.

It was absolutely electrifying. They actually had to strap me with my camera at the back of the plane. And all the guys were all gung-ho leading up to the jump, and the day of the jump and the minutes leading up to it, I spoke to every one of them, and you could see a little bit fear in each and every one of their eyes.

And then when the doors opened, the entire cabin filled with air, just swirling around. And they did the hands count-down, and they started shooting people out.

I don't know if you really got a sense of it with the video, but it lasted about one minute, and they got all but three jumpers out. One guy got tripped up, and so the two jump masters couldn't go. But they got 97 guys out in about 60 seconds.

BROWN: I can tell you that we can see it. Even in the graininess of the videocam, we can see it really well. And you get a sense of how quickly it happened. They're almost running up to that door.

NYBO: It was really strange in the sense that it was -- there was complete darkness. As the minutes approached leading up to the jump, they actually cut the lights in the cabin, and I had to go to the night camera effect on the camera to get it. They just had the red light to try to make it less visible to anyone on the ground that might try to target them.

And so the only lights that we could see were the lights of towns on the ground and the faint red light, and then everyone just shot out, heading straight into darkness.

BROWN: See if we can re-rack that and look at it one more time.

Is there -- does the jump master say anything that starts it all off? Is there a hand signal that's given? How does it -- how do they know when to start?

NYBO: Well, basically, it was a long flight. It was about a four-hour flight there. And the guys slept most of the way. And then the big moment is 20 minutes beforehand.

Actually, about two hours beforehand, they rig up. They get everything on the lines. They get their rucks in front of them. Each man carries about a 60-pound rucksack and also an M-4 rifle. And so the count down begins at two hours.

And then at 20 minutes, everything really heats up. And at about 10 minutes, they switch to the red light. And then they do the hand signals, and then it's go.

Yesterday, we actually went through a dry run on the plane, went through it about three or four times. So they knew the drill. The only difference was this was complete darkness. It was over northern Iraq. And this was the real thing.

BROWN: It certainly was. Tom, terrific, terrific work for you. And we're glad that these guys made it down. Really nice job. Thank you very much.

I need to get back to Brent Sadler, who's at the site where they dropped.

And, Brent, you've done -- you've got some of these guys with you, is that right?

SADLER: That's absolutely right, Aaron. I'm standing next to Sergeant First Class Jason Geringer, who's really overlooking the beginnings of these dugouts. I'm going to put him on to you now, and perhaps you'd like to have a word with him.

BROWN: I would indeed. What was it like? Well, let me get him...

SGT. 1ST CLASS JASON GERINGER, 173RD AIRBORNE: Good morning.

BROWN: Good morning to you. First of all, we're glad you're safely on the ground. This is beginning of it all for you.

What was it like when that door opened and you started moving down that line?

GERINGER: Well, for me, I was fortunate enough to be a jump master, and I got to stand in the door for about three minutes and watch the approach in. And as I exited the jumpers out, it was an incredible feeling of adrenaline to see those paratroopers leave the doors and for me to leave after them, and then see the chutes in the air. So it was a quite invigorating.

BROWN: Sergeant, you've probably done this drill, I would imagine hundreds of times in your life. Did it feel all together different, or is it exactly the way the training goes?

GERINGER: It is exactly the way the training. There was no difference. Just different terrain in a different location was the only difference for us.

BROWN: Would you, through the course of this four-hour plane ride or however long it was, would you walk up and down the plane and make sure that your guys, who I assume are younger than you, less experienced than you, that they were OK?

GERINGER: Well, that's part of our jobs as noncommissioned officers. We ensure that everybody's confident on what they're doing. If we have to give them a pep talk, we do. Get their equipment ready to go and just make sure that they feel that they're part of the team. And everything just goes just as we train.

That's why, you know, we're able to do what we do because the training is no different than we're executing down here in northern Iraq.

BROWN: I know you can't talk too much about what you're going to do, and I'm not going to ask you anything about what you're going to do. Just tell me how hard your heart was beating. Was it thumping pretty good?

GERINGER: It definitely was thumping more than normal. So it -- I had a lot of thoughts going through my mind and a lot of emotions, and my heart rate was up there.

BROWN: And when you jump out of the plane, you were the last one out. Are you able to -- is it so dark that you can't see anything, or were you able to see the chutes of the other soldiers who had already gotten out?

GERINGER: I was able to see some of the soldiers as they were coming out. And it was a dark. It was a moonless night. And we hit the ground pretty quick. And then right from there, we just executed our on the ground mission, and here we are.

BROWN: And, again, does that go just according to the way that you all have trained for it for weeks and months, and I suppose in some cases, years? When you hit the ground, everyone knows exactly what they're supposed to do so that everyone's accounted for?

GERINGER: That's it. Just like I said before, the training is -- wherever we do the training elsewhere is no different than we do it in combat. And it went just as smooth this morning with no complications and no problems.

BROWN: How long from the time you jump out of the airplane to the time you hit the ground? How long does that take?

GERINGER: It depends on the altitude. I'm not quite sure the exact altitude we were at last night. But the ground came up pretty quickly.

BROWN: It did come up pretty quickly. Everybody OK on the ground?

GERINGER: Everybody's OK. Just a few bumps and bruises. And everybody is good to go.

BROWN: Sergeant, you take care of yourself and take care of your men.

GERINGER: Thank you very much, sir.

BROWN: Thank you very much. That's something. You take care of yourself.

We'll take a break and be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK) BROWN: We've had some remarkable moments in our nights together over the last week, racing through the desert with Walt Rodgers that one night, the night we watched the British pool report. And just now, having a conversation with First Sergeant Jason Geringer, who had, just a short time before, jumped out of that airplane. His description of that, while watching the pictures of that, is as memorable as anything ever. That's something.

Miles O'Brien is with us tonight, and General Clark's over at the map table. They'll put a lot of what we've been talking about over the last bit of time in perspective - gentlemen.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, I just got bowled over by those pictures, as I'm sure General Clark has been as well. Let me orient you about the destination for the 173rd Airborne, this tiny airfield in a place called Harir (ph) in northern Iraq. This is, of course, a part of the world that is controlled not by Saddam Hussein, but by the Kurds, protected by that no-fly zone, that northern no-fly zone, which goes right about there.

Let's zoom in and show you exactly where those paratroopers were headed toward as they jumped out in that dramatic fashion in the middle of the night. It's not much of an airfield, but it's really all that this group needs. And I want to bring in General Clark. There you see very rugged mountains along this area up in the Kurdish country. And right down here is that air strip. That was their destination as Brent Sadler told you. He has that air strip in sight now. They're digging in around there, building their foxholes, hunkering down. This particular field will become a waypoint, a transit station, if you will.

General Clark, how significant is it?

GEN. WESLEY CLARK, FMR. NATO SUPREME CMDR. (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, I think it's a very significant action because it does insert our forces into the area. And we've needed them there, and now they're there.

O'BRIEN: What happens from here, though? Will this become a bustling base or just a transit point for infantry moves to the south? What will happen here?

CLARK: For a while, it will be a bustling base, Miles. And the troops will secure it, will start bringing in equipment there, will use it as what's called an air head. Later, as the offensive rolls, we'll probably occupy a better air field in one of the major cities that's still under Iraqi control. But that comes later. For now, this is the air head.

O'BRIEN: I've got to ask you, as you look at these pictures, what's what goes through your mind as someone who has commanded troops in the field?

CLARK: Well, two things. Number one, it's a great badge of honor. When you make a combat jump and you get a gold star on your jump rings, it's one of the greatest things that can happen to you as a soldier. Secondly, I feel bad for the guy who got tangled up in his equipment. I've seen it happen, and it's not pleasant.

O'BRIEN: Yeah. I did notice that. So I guess he had to go home, huh?

CLARK: Don't know. I've seen them just roll out the door.

O'BRIEN: Really. Oh, gosh. Oh, my gosh. Of course, we know that everybody landed safely there. But it's dramatic tape, and it really shows a lot of training and a lot of dedication, doesn't it?

CLARK: It's a great unit. It's got a great tradition, and these are very well-trained soldiers. This is a U.S./European command, U.S. Army/Europe's reaction force.

O'BRIEN: Now there are a couple of other fields, as we go back to our satellite imagery. We can show you a couple of other fields that are of significance in this part of the world - in this Kurdish- controlled part of the world. This one, Al Sulaymaniyah (ph), and I probably didn't pronounce that entirely correctly, is another one that might be a focus of airborne troops in the future. We don't know for sure yet, though, do we, General Clark?

CLARK: We don't. We don't know whether we will have one and that will be enough or we'll want another one.

O'BRIEN: And as we pull up, you can see the strategic significance of this. Of course, it's worth reminding our viewers, it was hoped that Turkey would provide a passageway for the 4th Infantry, heavy ground troops to come through. And instead, it's light airborne, and that does change the battle plan quite significantly. You see where we came from to where we're going there. That was where we were, and that's Baghdad. Obviously, that's a significant part of the world. How much does this set back Tommy Franks' plan?

CLARK: Well, you know, not having the 4th Infantry Division up there in the north is probably a - let's just take a percentage figure, 30 to 40 percent problem at the outset. But now this force is going to change it, and it takes a little more time. It may have slowed them down a little bit. But not putting the 4th Infantry Division, it wasn't a decisive setback at all. And with the right kind of force here and putting the airborne troopers in and then bringing heavy armor behind it, bringing the rest of those reinforcing forces up from Kuwait, this plan will roll.

O'BRIEN: General Wesley Clark, we'll watch it roll with you. Thank you very much. Appreciate it - Aaron.

BROWN: Miles, General, thank you very much. We'll take a short break. Our coverage continues in a minute.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: It's been a pretty remarkable hour-and-a-half that we've spent with you since 10:00 Eastern time. Among the things we want to gauge tonight is the mood in a couple of places, the United States, of course, and in Kuwait as well because it's a part of the Arab community. It is in an interesting spot. There's not always a great comfort with the fact that there are a lot of American soldiers in the country, causes some problems over there as well. Daryn Kagan joins us now. She's been trying to get a sense of how the people in Kuwait are feeling. And she joins us from Kuwait City this morning.

It's nice to see you again.

DARYN KAGAN, CNNfn CORRESPONDENT: Good morning. Let me say good Thursday morning to you, Aaron, from here in Kuwait City. Keep in mind the border to Iraq just about 50 miles over my shoulders there. Decided to head out yesterday and get a sense of how folks in Kuwait City are doing, if they're staying home, if they're heading back to the malls, back to the streets. Here's what we found.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN (voice over): This is probably the only place in the Arab world where you'll see a demonstration in support of American and British troops. This is Kuwait. What's also significant about this scene from Tuesday night is that the people here now feel safe enough to leave their homes again.

Kuwaitis are taking to the street and taking back their lives. That also means getting back to everyday chores like going to the market.

(on camera): This is Sultan Center (ph) in Kuwait City, picture a supermarket on the bottom floor, a department store on the top floor. Basically, if you need to buy it they have it here.

(voice over): The store shelves are a welcome relief for Kuwaitis who have spent days glued to their television sets.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Actually, first three days, I was scared. I was staying at home doing nothing, just gazing at the stream of TV and this stuff. But not anymore. Not anymore. And I decided to go out, see my friends, sit in cafes and come here to Sultan Center shopping district (ph). Just act normally.

KAGAN (on camera): Time to get back to your regular life.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, we need it.

KAGAN (voice over): Missile warning sirens are still a regular part of life here. Iraq has launched at least 12 missiles at Kuwait since the war started. Most were shot down by Patriot missiles. Others fell into the desert or the sea. The threat, though, doesn't seem to phase the people we talked with.

KAGAN (on camera): You say you don't even go to a shelter at this point or anything?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, no. Nothing.

KAGAN: But those are real missiles that are coming in. Those aren't just false alarms. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. I mean, whatever's going to happen is going to happen. And I think we're taken good care of.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The first two days, we were - I was at work, and they were at home. So the first thing that I did, I called them and told them to make sure that they go downstairs, and they will be beneath the stairway. And that's where we have our area. But then the - then we begin to be more comfortable, that basically we're not panicking. And they were doing a good job, the girls.

KAGAN (voice over): Another sign that life is getting back to normal. These girls will head back to school on Saturday, after a week off due to the war. The Kuwait Department of the Interior says more than 50,000 people left the country in anticipation of the war. But with life getting back to normal, some are beginning to come back. that won't be hard.

By last Thursday, almost all commercial airlines had stopped flying in and out of here. But now airport traffic is almost back to normal, even with war planes dropping bombs just across the border.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

We say that airport traffic is back to normal, I want to clarify there. All the airlines are not flying in and out of here yet, Aaron. European airlines have not chosen to start up their service. But a number of flights and airport traffic is back up to normal.

Also one other note. In the media here, you can see some people like political scientists coming out and being critical of the speed of the war, saying this was supposed to go a lot more quickly. But just from what I found on going out into the streets and the stores, I couldn't find a single Kuwaiti who would express that, saying they're comfortable with how it's going and as you can see, comfortable in getting back to their everyday lives.

BROWN: In terms of what we could see, we ought to explain that which we can and cannot see. It looks a little less sandy today behind you than it was 24 hours ago. We can just make out the towers.

KAGAN: You can. OK. Yes, it is better. And I think you can definitely tell it's not blowing as much. But we do get word that another sandstorm could be on its way within the next couple of hours. So stay tuned for that. If it happens, we'll show it to you here live from Kuwait City.

BROWN: Daryn, thank you. You'll be with us a lot in the next couple of hours. Thank you very much.

On the subject of mood and how people are feeling about things, double duty tonight for our senior political analyst, Bill Schneider. He is here to talk about British opinion, what it means to Tony Blair, the British prime minister who meets with the president. And also and first where this country is, where the United States is now a week into the war. It's in a couple of interesting places, I think. WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, it is. Daryn mentioned just now that the Kuwaitis, many of them were expecting a quick war, some of the Americans were too. And after an initial day of euphoria in the United States, a mood of sober realism has set in. And you can see in these poll numbers, day by day, over the last four days. On Saturday, 62 percent of Americans said the United States - the war was going very well so far. That dropped to 44 percent on Sunday, and down to 32 and 37 percent Monday and Tuesday.

BROWN: Now, perhaps this will be helpful. Up until Saturday, what we had seen essentially was the race into Iraq.

SCHNEIDER: Yes.

BROWN: What we saw on Sunday were casualties and POWs. Now if we can just put the numbers up again to look at what one day's news cycle did to people's perception is pretty dramatic to me. I mean, you're not talking about a little onesie here and a twosie there, that is a big drop.

SCHNEIDER: That is a big drop. But here's something that did not drop in line with those numbers, morale. We asked people each of those days, do you support war with Iraq? And these numbers, vary very little. You see on Saturday it was 74. Sunday, a few points lower, 70. Monday, 69. Tuesday, back up to 73. What that suggests is on the home front in the United States, even though people feel the war is a lot slower than they would like, the mood of sober realism has set in, the home front morale is holding up.

You know, Aaron, there's this theory that as body bags begin to come in, Americans will lose faith in the war, that that will destroy home front morale. That really isn't true. What really destroys home front morale and creates a problem for military venture like this is the sense that there isn't a clear mission and there's no strategy for achieving that mission. That was the problem in Vietnam and even more the problem in Somalia. It doesn't seem to be a problem with this war, where Americans see a mission and a strategy.

BROWN: And you'll forgive me if I just say, again, one week into the war. In the same way that I think it's a little wacky to be making broad criticisms of the war plan a week into the war, it's probably - you know, this polling stuff far better than I. I don't want to seem like an expert here. I'm not. But we're a week into it, there's been an incredible concentration of coverage. People have been incredibly focused on it. I just - I guess, in my mind, I'm pretty cautious about how to read any of this except the daily swings seem to be tied to the news cycle.

SCHNEIDER: Let me give you an example. When we asked people, do you think going into this war was a mistake? The answer was exactly the same as we got back in 1965 when Americans made a major troop commitment in Vietnam. You know how long it took a majority of Americans to decide that Vietnam was a mistake? Three years. It wasn't until the middle of 1968. Three years later that Americans finally decided this wasn't a good idea. BROWN: Now, the British prime minister is in town. We were talking earlier this evening that in all of this, the last several months, Tony Blair and - has been among the most interesting characters because he has been so steadfast despite public opinion in his country, which is extremely negative.

SCHNEIDER: Well, the question is what drives Tony Blair? Why is he one of the few world leaders to risk his political career to stand shoulder to shoulder with President Bush?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice over): Tony Blair and Bill Clinton? That's easy to get. Skilled politicians leading left of center parties. But Tony Blair and George W. Bush? What's that about? It's not about ideology. Blair and Bush have vastly different political values. It doesn't seem to be personal. In background, style, and personality, the two leaders have nothing in common. Well, almost nothing.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We both use Colgate toothpaste.

SCHNEIDER: Blair's alliance with Bush seems to endanger his own political interests. Sure, other world leaders support Bush, but they're conservatives, like President Aznar of Spain and President Berlusconi of Italy. The war is not popular in Blair's Labour Party.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We should not go in that direction.

SCHNEIDER: Blair has long been seen as a calculating poll-driven politician, not a man of conviction. But every poll before this week showed war with Iraq was widely unpopular in Britain. Blair bravely confronted his critics. In the end, Blair took his country into war and look at what's happened. The polls turned around in Blair's favor. Instead of being led by the polls, Blair led the polls. Maybe Blair is a man of conviction. He sees Britain's national security as inextricably linked to the United States.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

Many Europeans would like to see Europe divided from the United States, a check on U.S. power, a Europe, in effect, united by anti- Americanism. Blair is convinced that that's dangerous, and by joining with Bush, he has set out to make sure it doesn't happen.

BROWN: And he finds himself this week in a position of trying to bridge a gap, in some respects, between the strong feelings of the continent and the equally strong feelings of the American president.

SCHNEIDER: That's right. He is against the idea that France will lead a new united Europe, which is basically setting itself up to be the check on American power. He thinks that's a disaster because Europe really has no military power.

BROWN: Now, I want to go back just for a minute here, before we go to break, in breaking out the polling, there's one - well, there's probably more than one. We saw a significant disparity between Democrats and Republicans. But even a more dramatic disparity in another area.

SCHNEIDER: That's right. We certainly - what we saw is a very sharp decline in support for this war among African-Americans. If you compare their support for the Gulf War in 1991, it was 60 percent. And now their support for the war in Iraq is down to 30 percent. Among whites, the level of support is almost exactly the same. I think that difference, that 30 percent, that low figure has a lot to do with African-Americans' hostility to President Bush. A lot of blacks suspect - since they don't see an overwhelmingly convincing reason for this war, they suspect that the war is being fought for political reasons because they see Bush as driven by political calculation.

BROWN: And African-Americans, what? about 9 percent of the vote, the president's vote in the last election was an African-American vote?

SCHNEIDER: Actually, 9 percent of African-Americans voted for him.

BROWN: I'm sorry. Yes.

I'm sorry And he's setting out - look, he has major foreign policy advisers. His secretary of state, his national security advisor are both African-Americans. That doesn't seem to have made any difference.

BROWN: Bill, thank you very much. Come back again soon. Bill Schneider, our senior political analyst. We'll take a break. Our coverage continues in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Heading toward midnight here in the East, we're glad you're with us again tonight. General Wesley Clark is with us too.

General, I just want to go back and look at those paratroopers a second. Have you ever been in one of those planes when that's going on?

CLARK: Yes, I have.

BROWN: What's it like? What does it sound like? What does it feel like?

CLARK: Well, first of all, everybody sleeps on the way to the drop zone.

BROWN: How do they sleep?

CLARK: You're strapped in. You can't move. You've got tons of equipment on. And you learn to sleep. When there's nothing else you can do, you sleep. It may be the last chance to get some good rest. You're probably tired and worn out from trying to get ready and sitting around. And you're just glad to get on the airplane.

BROWN: Do they eat just before they get on the plane? I mean, I guess I want to know all the detail of what it's like.

CLARK: I don't know what this particular time line...

BROWN: Are there seats on the plane?

CLARK: Yes. There are canvas bench seats on the aircraft. I'm not sure on this aircraft. That's probably what it is. They're usually rigged that way because you've got to have enough space that you can get all your gear. You've got the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) bag in front of you. You've got your parachute on. You've got your reserve chute. You've got your combat gear. And you've got your helmet, of course. And it's uncomfortable.

BROWN: And then they almost seem to be racing to the door, just coming down that line, racing to jump out, racing to jump out, one after another. Is it noisy? Are they - obviously, the wind's blowing through.

CLARK: It's noisy, but you don't hear anything. You do a drill, stand up, you hook up, and there's a set count. You check equipment. You count down, and people are touching the guy in front you. You're back to belly in this thing. And when it starts moving, you start your feet moving, and the whole - we call it a stick, which is the line of people coming out that door. It starts moving from the back, and you're going out that door. I mean, it's that - it's pushed because the plane's moving at a certain rate of speed, and the faster you can get people out that door, the closer they're concentrated on the ground, which helps in the defense. It helps in forming up the unit afterwards. And so you want to get everybody out as rapidly as possible.

BROWN: Now it's pitch black out there. The one thing that First Sergeant Geringer said, you've probably done this a hundred times or dozens of times in training. Was it any different? Now, he's a sergeant, and he knows how to answer these sorts of questions. To be honest with you, he said, no, it's just like we trained it all the time. That must have made a guy like you burst with pride.

CLARK: I'm really proud of those guys. Of course, it's a great privilege to be in the Airborne. A lot of people want it. It's tough to get in there. I was an armor officer. And so there was just a very small slice of people...

BROWN: Excuse me. What is this happening here? this sort of clump of -- can we lose the banner a second? I'm not sure if we can do this quickly enough, but what is all that?

CLARK: Looks like the rip cord is being - that's the top of the parachute. The parachute is attached to a wire inside the aircraft. And the wire actually opens up the parachute. And it leaves the cover attached to the wire. And so that's the remains of the parachutes being pulled back in the aircraft. BROWN: Thank you. That whole sequence was unbelievable. We say a lot - we know some of you don't normally watch the NEWSNIGHT program. NEWSNIGHT has this great affection for still photos, and a another view of the war now seen through the lens of "Time" magazine photographer Christopher Morris. Chris is traveling with the 3rd Infantry Division, 3rd Brigade. Some of the pictures you're about to see will appear in the next issue of "Time" magazine, next week's issue. He spoke with us on a satellite phone after an exhausting day in central Iraq.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CHRISTOPHER MORRIS, "TIME": This is Christopher Morris working for "Time" magazine with the 3rd Infantry Division who intend to (UNINTELLIGIBLE) somewhere leading north. It doesn't really say. The soldiers, they have high morale. They feel they have a job to do. They've been moving since we crossed over from Kuwait.

He was accused of being a soldier. He was pulled away from the people he was traveling with because he was wearing green army pants, and they arrested him. They detained him and they sent the vehicle with all the people he was traveling with. They turned them back, made them go away. And when they realized - that was when he was realizing that he was being arrested, and the people he was with were being taken away.

The last couple days (UNINTELLIGIBLE), we slowed down a little. But yesterday there was a storm of like biblical proportions. You really felt like you were on the red planet. The winds were almost hurricane force if felt, with the sand and then the rain came. Several of the soldiers in the group said it was the worst night they've ever had in the Army.

There was also at one point where there were 10 Iraqis supposedly with RPGs and guns that were approaching our site, trying to flank us where we were on the side of the road. So a patrol went out to try to find them. And at one point, a farmer's vehicle approached with a farmer and his two - I'm not sure of the relationship. But there was a young boy, a four-year-old boy in the car. But the soldiers came at the car and basically removed them from the car. And what struck me was fear on these people's face. The young boy was visibly shaken. He put his hands in the air. And he just - that was the most poignant thing, at least that I saw in the last day or so, outside of the weather.

They're very unprepared to deal with the culture that they're entering. They haven't been prepared in that sense. They've been prepared how to fight, but they haven't been prepared I feel that where they're fighting by the questions they ask at the checkpoints. They're not in Missouri. They're not in Arkansas. They're in Iraq.

Originally there was this real suspicion that everybody they pulled out of the cars had large wads of money in their pockets. And the American soldiers at first thought that was very suspicious, that they would have big wads of money. But they don't realize at the exchange rate, it's like 12,000 to the dollar, so basically, they're pulling out - these people maybe have $3 or $4 in their pockets. To these American soldiers, it looks like they have hundreds of dollars.

Everybody's on a high state of alert. So I think they understand where they are and the dangers that lie ahead for them, yes, absolutely.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BROWN: Christopher Morris, shooting pictures for "Time" magazine. We said yesterday we'd benefit enormously by our relationship with "The New York Times." We benefit enormously by our relationship with "Time" magazine as well. What a spectacular set of pictures we saw there.

A short break, our coverage continues.

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