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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown
War in Iraq: War Under Way
Aired April 01, 2003 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: And good evening again, everyone. War is a series of pictures. Some of them are very ugly; some of them are good. Occasionally, we get one that is beautiful.
We have all of those tonight. But often they are pictures of uncertainty. And that's where we begin. Ryan Chilcote, embedded with the 101st Airborne Division. And a missile attack of some sort, Ryan?
RYAN CHILCOTE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's correct, Aaron. I'm in the city of Najaf. Najaf is located in central Iraq. As you know, it is a very holy city to Shia Muslims. It is home to some of the holiest sites in the Shia Muslims faith, including a mosque where many Shia Muslims of course believe that the cousin of the prophet Mohamed Ali is buried, among other very important people. So a very important place.
Just about 40 minutes ago, I was woken up by another soldier from the 101st Airborne's 1st Brigade with whom I'm right now. He said, "Put your gas mask on. We have a scud alert, a scud attack."
Just about 10 minutes later, I was told that there were two surface-to-surface missile impacts in the vicinity of Najaf. Now for reasons of operational security, I cannot tell you exactly where, although U.S. forces believe they know where one of the two missiles impacted. I cannot tell that at this point, but I can tell you two surface-to-surface missiles impacted in the area of Najaf.
One of the two sighted; the second heard. The troops subsequently have been given the all-clear. They've taken off their gas masks. That suggests that those surface-to-surface missiles did not have -- were not laced with any chemical weapons.
I know the troops just behind me just a short while ago did a head count. That's what troops in this area are doing and have been doing for the last half hour, getting accountability. So far, all troops accounted for -- Aaron.
BROWN: Is this the first time you and the 101st -- the group of the 101st you are with have encountered this sort of thing?
CHILCOTE: No, this is actually the fifth time. When I moved from Kuwait from Camp New Jersey in Kuwait into Iraq with the 101st Airborne's 3rd Brigade, we had three scud alerts, three -- they're not actually scuds. Scud alert is a term left over from the Gulf War, I should point that out. According to the U.S. military, Saddam has not used any scuds yet in this conflict. In fact, they're not sure that he has any.
What these really are surface-to-surface missiles. There are a couple of different kinds of them. All of them have warheads that are smaller and ranges that are smaller than the scuds, but still back in Camp New Jersey, there were a full three there and then one, when we were in the middle of the Kuwaiti desert in what is called an assembly area, waiting to come in. This is different, though, Aaron. This is the first surface-to-surface missile attack that I know of that has impacted inside of Iraq.
It would appear that either U.S. forces or perhaps the Shia Muslims that live in the city of Najaf who, of course, have no love loss for the Iraqi leader, President Saddam Hussein, It appears they would be the target inside Iraq. This is not an impact in Kuwait or anywhere else like we've seen before. This is perhaps something different -- Aaron.
BROWN: I'm just -- I want to be careful what I ask. Though, maybe as long as you are careful in how you answer it is OK.
CHILCOTE: Sure.
BROWN: Can you give me a sense of what your -- the group you're traveling with, the 101st -- the part of the 101st you are traveling with, what they have been involved in today? How spread out they are, that sort of thing?
CHILCOTE: Sure, Aaron. Actually, everything I am saying has been cleared. I have been authorized to say by the military commander. So there are no worries about operational security.
In fact, I have been reporting on what the 1st Brigade has been up to for the last two days. Now, yesterday -- it's now 6:05 in the morning here -- just yesterday, troops from the 1st Brigade moved into the outskirts of the city of Najaf. More than 500 infantrymen moved into the city. They went street by street, house by house, clearing and securing streets.
Basically, the idea is they needed to come in because Fedayeen fighters, the Fedayeen, a paramilitary group that has been operating out of this city, that is very loyal to President Saddam Hussein, they have been basically able -- according to the U.S. military -- to use this area as a safe haven to attack U.S. troops passing by it. So they wanted to come in and deal with that threat.
Now I said yesterday was the second day. The first day, the day before yesterday, was the scene of a massive air strike. Both Air Force, helicopter gun ships and artillery on the city. Yesterday, the troops actually came in.
And one military commander I already spoke with this morning believes that there is a relationship between the presence of U.S. troops and those missile attacks. He believes that perhaps this is President Saddam Hussein's attempt to get -- to target U.S. troops in the city of Najaf -- Aaron. BROWN: Ryan, thank you. Nicely done. Ryan Chilcote. And as he can report more, he will. And when he talked about -- this get's a little confusing, but when he talks about yesterday, he is talking about Tuesday.
OK. That's what's happening literally now. On to the other outlines of the puzzle and the pieces that are in play. And tonight just about everything seems to be in play from one respect or another. From the push to Baghdad, to a rescued POW, a lot of headlines are being torn up and being re-written tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN (voice-over): It was the middle of the night in the Persian Gulf, but good news can't wait. A prisoner of war had been rescued.
GEN. VINCENT BROOKS, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: Coalition forces have conducted a successful rescue mission of a U.S. Army prisoner of war held captive in Iraq. The soldier has been returned to a coalition- controlled area. More details will be released as soon as possible.
BROWN: It was her family who identified her. She is a West Virginian, 19-year-old Jessica Lynch, and her family says she is in good shape.
Meantime, the American bombing campaign in Baghdad went on. A large explosion tonight in the center of the city. In some cities, on the approaches to Baghdad, Karbala, for instance, there was intense fighting. Critical because the city is only 50 miles from the Iraqi capital. And far to the south, CNN's Jason Bellini described a major nighttime assault against Iraqi positions in Nasiriya.
JASON BELLINI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This offensive operation began just a few hours ago. This was a pre-planned operation, and it's involved tanks, Apache helicopter gun ships, a large number of troops moving into the city itself, south of the Euphrates River.
BROWN: And around Baghdad, American units continue to push forward. They were said to be facing Iraqi troops, which had been moved south to face them as reinforcements.
In Baghdad, Iraq's information minister read a speech on behalf of Saddam Hussein urging Iraqis to wage a holy war, a jihad against the coalition forces. "They are aggressors," he said, "evil, a curse by god." The fact that Saddam himself did not appear on state television was termed "interesting" by the Pentagon.
There was a glimpse today of ordinary life in Baghdad. These pictures were taken by the children's relief agency UNICEF. And to a soundtrack of mournful music, these images by Iraqi state television of what they said was bomb damage in the capital.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What we found here is approximately 400 to 600 rounds of high explosive mortar rounds. BROWN: British units meantime took down the Iraqi flag from this schoolhouse in southern Iraq. Inside was an enormous cache of weapons. Officers said it had been used as a staging base for the militia group called the Fedayeen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it's a classic example.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would say it's an outstanding example of what Special Forces train for in the United States: unconventional warfare, working with an indigenous force to add to their capabilities and assistance and advice where we can.
BROWN: To the north, American Special Forces troops applauded what commanders said was a big success: the capture a stronghold they had long sought near the Iranian border. It was a mosque used as a headquarters by the group Ansar al Islam, a group linked by the Pentagon to al Qaeda.
Kurdish fighters also joined American troops in collecting hundreds of Iraqi mines and watching as American air power pummeled Iraqi positions near the city of Kirkuk. Some of the day's most important news, though, wasn't even in Iraq. Units of the American 4th Infantry Division finally arrived in Kuwait City. At rest for the time being, but soon, it seems, headed for Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: A quick overview of the day. There seemed to be a number, perhaps three major story lines running through the day.
On the ground, this major push on the ground toward Baghdad. That obviously has somewhere to go yet. A counter offensive, if you will, from the podium at the Pentagon today over criticism of the war plan itself. And then tonight the news that a POW, Jessica Lynch, had been rescued.
To the Pentagon now, and our senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre. I'm not sure we will get through all of those. Let's start with Private First Class Lynch. What can you add? What do you know about her condition, her whereabouts, and how she got out?
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, we know that she has been through quite an ordeal. According to sources at the Pentagon, when she was rescued she had more than one gunshot wound. It's not clear where she got these wounds. If she's had them the entire time of captivity or from something that happened in the raid.
But she was in a hospital in Nasiriya. And the U.S. learned she was in this hospital, and they were able to arrange a mission with a joint special forces team to go in. This was a helicopter assault, forced entry, gun fire, classic special operations mission. Went into the hospital, rescued Jessica Lynch.
Were also looking for other people, we're told, including this guy called "Chemical Ali," the cousin of Saddam Hussein who is a commander in the south. We're not clear whether they found him, or are on his trail, or what's going on with him. But that was part of this operation as well.
She's been -- Jessica Lynch has been taken to a medical facility, and she's being treated now with U.S. military personnel. As for the larger war itself, it turns out that this is the night the so-called battle for Baghdad is beginning. One military official told me probably more accurate to call it the battle with the Republican Guard.
The strategy is apparently to attack at least two Republican Guard divisions. And then perhaps punch through and head to Baghdad, or perhaps attack the other divisions sequentially. It's not entirely clear. But this is not just one of those probing attacks. This is a major ground offensive.
And, by the way, Najaf, where Ryan Chilcote is, is now pretty much under the control of U.S. forces. And one of the things they are seeing there they that they haven't seen up till now is a fairly substantial amount of the population there seems to be welcoming the U.S. troops, once the Saddam Hussein loyalists were driven out of the city.
BROWN: And, just briefly, on the secretary and the chairman of the joint chiefs today, were they reacting to -- I think people who have been following the story know this, so I'll do this in a sentence or two. They very angrily and forcefully defended the plan and attacked the critics of the plan. And by and large, they're talking about -- well, I will let you characterize it. Were they reacting to a specific article or a general sense of criticism?
MCINTYRE: Well, the series of articles in "The New York Times" today -- they had a series of articles that were quite critical of the plan. And Rumsfeld was being questioned about an article in "The New York Times" that quoted an unnamed colonel as saying Rumsfeld wanted to win this war on the cheap and he was getting what he wanted.
This was obviously somebody in the field frustrated that they didn't have enough -- they didn't feel they had enough of what they needed to get the job done. Now Rumsfeld, before he had a chance to answers, General Myers, the joint chiefs chairman, sort of jumped in. You could see he was champing at the bit to answer that question.
And he went into a long, very emotional defense of the war plan. How everybody at the Pentagon had signed off on it. How it had been up and down the chain of command. How people who were criticizing it either didn't understand it or weren't there.
And it was quite unusual to see General Myers this agitated about something. And Rumsfeld just sort of sat back and let him carry the day. And in the end, I think Secretary Rumsfeld's message was, have some patience, just watch and see what happens. And now of course we're starting to see the beginning of that now with this ground offensive that's under way.
BROWN: Jamie, thank you. Jamie McIntyre, our senior Pentagon correspondent.
Jessica Lynch was part of the 507, this maintenance company that on the first Sunday after the war began. It's unclear how precisely how they encountered Iraqis, but they did. There were a number of POWs that were taken. And still is one of the mysteries of this.
Jean Offutt is the public information officer at Fort Bliss, home of the 507th. And she joins us now. What can you tell us about Jessica Lynch and her condition, and what is next for her?
JEAN OFFUTT, FORT BLISS PUBLIC AFFAIRS OFFICER: Well, I can tell you we are overjoyed here at Fort Bliss to hear that she's safe, that she's back being taken care of. We hope that that happens to the many others from the 507th that are still unaccounted for. So we're just hoping every day that everyone comes back safe.
BROWN: How many, Ms. Offutt, do you have that are still unaccounted for?
OFFUTT: Well, we have of course the five POWs, and we have the nine -- well, eight now that are unaccounted for.
BROWN: How did the news get to the base?
OFFUTT: Well, we started to hear reports from various media sources and check through our official channels. And we were told in that manner.
BROWN: You were ultimately told. Officially, someone called the base and said we got her?
OFFUTT: Yes.
BROWN: Do you know what next stages of her life are going to be, where she will be taken next, and what will follow that?
OFFUTT: Well, I guess that all depends on the circumstances. I am sure that she'll be treated medically, debriefed, and will probably go to somewhere near her home, I would imagine, and join up with her family, which I'm sure they're very happy to hear that she'll be coming home to them soon.
BROWN: I would say that's probably the understatement of the day. It's, I know, difficult at the 507th at Fort Bliss, because there's still much unknown, as you point out. There hasn't been a lot of good news for you. So today must have been especially nice. Thank you for your time this evening.
OFFUTT: Thank you.
BROWN: Jean Offutt, who is the public information officer at Fort Bliss.
Again, there are many questions about what happened to the 507th, this maintenance group that was lost on the first Sunday of the war. Five people taken prisoner; a number of missing. Jessica Lynch among them.
Linda Davies last heard from Jessica Lynch in a letter the week before she disappeared. Linda Davies is a kindergarten teacher. She was Jessica kindergarten teacher not that many years ago. Jessica is only 19.
And Linda joins us now on the phone. It's good to have you with us. Just describe the town right now. It must be bouncing around.
LINDA DAVIES, JESSICA LYNCH'S KINDERGARTEN TEACHER: It is wild here. Sirens going off, horns honking. People shouting through the streets and fireworks going off.
BROWN: How big a city is it?
DAVIES: We have around 900 here in Elizabeth. In the whole county there's around 5,000.
BROWN: So certainly in Elizabeth it's one of those towns where everybody knows everybody, and everybody knows the Lynches and probably knew Jessica?
DAVIES: Oh, yes. Yes. And this word spread very quickly this evening. When the family got the word, I would say within an hour and a half the whole country new.
BROWN: And what happened? Everybody literally came out in the streets?
DAVIES: Yes. In fact, it was my neighbor that came running over. She has been in close contact with the Lynches through this whole ordeal, and had screened calls for them actually for the last week or so. And she came rung over, pounding on my door, screaming, "Jessica's alive, Jessica's alive. Come and go with me." So we rushed up to the Lynches' house to watch all the official news come in.
BROWN: And tell me about her parents and how they are and what they are doing right now.
DAVIES: Well, of course, you know, they are just so excited and looking for the holding and hugging their little girl again.
BROWN: I imagine so. Let's talk about their little girl. She is 19 years old. She actually is -- she is not a big woman, certainly.
DAVIES: Right.
BROWN: And she went into the service because she wanted to get some money to go to college, right?
DAVIES: Right. That's what I understand. She also wanted to do some traveling, and she told me in the last letter I had gotten from her that she had accomplished that goal. And of course her next goal is to become a teacher. BROWN: And in these letters that you would get from her, had she -- do you sense that she is the same kid who left from West Virginia to join the Army, or did she seem older, different?
DAVIES: She is pretty much the same Jessica, but much more mature. And she knew what she wanted to do. She went out and she set those goals, and went out and did them.
BROWN: You must be -- I mean this would be great news in New York City. It would be great news in any -- in any place. I would imagine the whole town, though, for the last week and a half has been beside itself with worry. Now to get this news...
DAVIES: Oh, it's just amazing. There has been of course prayers. We've had candlelight vigil here.
We had another gathorg (ph) Saturday where we put yellow ribbons on the trees, on the courthouse lawn, along with the black ribbons for the POWs and the MIAs, and had a service for her there. The community has pulled together. And of course we have talked to people all over the world. So we know that there were prayers going out for Jessica for this past week, and they've certainly been answered.
BROWN: It's great to have this occasion to talk to you. It's as simple as that. I am glad the news is the best possible news. And thank you for your time tonight.
DAVIES: Thank you.
BROWN: Linda Davies, who was Jessica Lynch's kindergarten teacher back there in Elizabeth, West Virginia. A pretty happy town tonight.
I don't think the town you are looking at is a very happy town. That's Baghdad. It's been another day, another night of bombing there.
We're joined by Nic Robertson, who keeps track of the going's on in Baghdad for us. Nic is near the border with Iraq in Jordan. Nic, good day to you.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good day to you, Aaron. Well, it was a fairly quiet night in Baghdad until a couple of hours before dawn, and then there were several loud detonations in the city. Reporters there say that one of the locations hit is the presidential compound right on the Tigris River. It's been hit a number of times before.
Also, just across the river from there, just over the bridge from the Ministry of Information, a communication's center that was targeted several days ago. That was hit as well. Apparently, a large hole knocked out of the side of the building. A few days ago, the base of the building appeared to be targeted. Now the upper floors have been hit as well.
Also, an interesting day in as much as a statement from President Saddam Hussein. The statement that he didn't deliver himself, and that did raise some questions about why not, why was he not available to do it. But the message was delivered by the Information Minister Mohammed al-Sahaf. A very clear, concise, precise message for a focus.
That in itself quite unusual for the Iraqi leader to deliver something so straightforward. The message was this: "This is an Islamic country. You are Muslims. Your country has been invaded by infidel, by foreigners. They are on your soil and you should rise up in a jihad."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MOHAMMED SAEED AL-SAHAF, IRAQI INFORMATION MINISTER (through translator): The religious men with all their fatwas, today they all concur that the invaders and the aggressors, what they are doing is an aggression on religion and self and on the Islamic nation. Therefore, jihad is a duty.
And whoever dies will be rewarded by heaven. And god will be satisfied with their sacrifice. Take your chance. This is what god requested from you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTSON: Now perhaps this message designed to strike resonance in those that hold their religious teachings very close to their heart. And perhaps the Iraqi leadership here aiming particularly the message to the Shia community in the south of Iraq, whose help they need very much at this time, because that's the direction for which the coalition forces are advancing on Baghdad. Absolutely no indication yet how this message was received -- Aaron.
BROWN: To this point, the messages have been more about Iraqi nationalism as opposed to a religious call to battle. Do we read anything into that, into the change?
ROBERTSON: We have heard calls to jihad before, but this was very focused. And this was a huge emphasis put on this. A call not just to the Shia in the south, but all Muslims in Iraq.
Some people might analyze this and say, is this a last-ditch attempt by the leadership to get as much popular support as they can? Quite possibly that may be the case. But what it would do, perhaps not getting people to rise up arms against the coalition forces, but for those religious faithful in the south it will give them a dilemma.
This is the teaching of the holy Quran. What are they to do? To follow what the Quran says, or perhaps go against the leadership? Maybe not fight against the coalition, but should they go and tell the coalition forces about a Republican Guard unit or a weapon stash that's near their house?
This may put some people in a position of greater personal dilemma. It would go against their religious teachings to disobey, but, at the same time, it may go against as well what they believe about the leadership in Iraq -- Aaron.
BROWN: Nic, thank you. Nic Robertson, who keeps an eye on Baghdad. And Nic would have preferred to be in Baghdad, but as I guess most of you know by now, he was expelled a week ago and is out of the country.
The ground portion that Jamie McIntyre referred to at the top of the program may be -- just now be -- just now getting under way. But in fact, the battle for Baghdad or the battle against the Republican Guard has been going on for several days. General Wes Clark, who will join us in a little bit, said to us the other night, you will know when it begins when they start pounding from the air, those Republican Guard troops.
And they have been pounding now for several days, those Republican Guard troops that are outside in a ring outside of the city. Bob Franken is at a coalition air base not far from the Iraqi border, and he joins us now. Bob, good evening.
BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good evening. And, as a matter of fact, that is an important point, Aaron. About two thirds of the 800 actual raids and attacks that were conducted by the 2,000 jets or so that took off in the last 24-hour reporting period, two thirds of them ran missions against the Republican Guard. Which, of course, makes the point you are trying to make, that they are trying to soften up the Republican Guard for the ground assault that is apparently going to be following fairly soon.
It's been sort of probative thus far. But it's been anything but probative as far as the Air Force is concerned. They have been reigning their bombs and their machine gun bullets on them now for the last couple of days.
As I said, there were a total of 1,900 sorties; about the same 800 attacks, including about 50 that were directly aimed at Baghdad. Now this means that they're going around the clock, that the planes take off, they do their missions, and then they come back and they're quickly turned around, which is meant that they have really had intense pressure in the maintenance pits.
As a matter of fact, the planes do come in very quickly; they're taxied in. The workers immediately jump on them like the old-time gas stations. They can get these planes out in just about a half hour if they need too.
It means that they have been working 12 to 14-hour shifts in the maintenance areas on the flight lines. And, as a matter of fact, many of the people are getting tired, but they are saying that they're just going to keep on going. They realize that they're an important part of this operation, but it is becoming harder and harder work. And of course it's going to get harder as the missions keep on increasing as the intensity increases -- Aaron.
BROWN: Bob, we're a little long tonight. But just quickly, do you get the feeling from them that they get the feeling it is the beginning -- the beginning of the end game? FRANKEN: Well, they get the feeling that it's becoming more and more important. Of course, they're all hoping that that means that it's going to be over fairly soon.
BROWN: Don't know about that. Thank you, Bob. Bob Franken at an air base, and we'll hear from him again before the night is out.
We'll talk with General Clark in a moment. We take a break first. Our coverage continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Retired General Wesley Clark joins us. General, I suppose there are a lot of things we could talk about, and over the next hour and a half or so will talk about. But let's talk about what the battlefield looks like right now and kind of where we are at this moment.
GEN. WESLEY CLARK (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well Aaron, I think the most important thing is the assessments of the strength of the Medina division. Which, for the last couple of days, we have been hearing about the pounding its taken, and now the Air Force, at least according to the publicly released information, is assessing it below 50 percent strength.
And we've been pushing and probing and prodding and gaining and maintaining contact with the Medina division. That's what you have to do with ground forces. But it's the air that has been carrying the brunt of the effort.
And now it would appear that what we are preparing to do is to shift into what we would called a reconnaissance-led attack. In other words, we can't be positive exactly how much has been killed from the air, but what we would do is put the forces against it, and if we get a breakthrough, exploit it.
BROWN: We'll pick up on that theme. We will talk a little bit about what went on in the Pentagon. You're in New York tonight. Eventually you're going to get back down here, I assume. It's good to have you with us.
CLARK: I will.
BROWN: We'll update the day's headlines, take a short break. Our coverage continues in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everyone. I'm Heidi Collins. Here's the news that's happening at this hour.
Important developments out of Iraq tonight, including word of a major battle between U.S. and two Republican Guard divisions south of Baghdad.
Also today, coalition war planes took aim at more targets inside the Iraqi capital, including the building that's home to an international telephone exchange.
A Pentagon source says rescued POW Jessica Lynch has been through, quote, "quite an ordeal." The 19-year-old was plucked from an Iraqi hospital today by special forces personnel. She reportedly suffered multiple gunshot wounds in the ambush that led to her capture, and is now listed in stable condition.
In the central Iraq city of Najaf, about 500 troops from the 101st Airborne Division went door to door today looking for Iraqi fighters. They reportedly encountered no resistance and suffered no casualties.
Meanwhile, near Basra, coalition forces continue to exchange fire with paramilitaries, who've been keeping the allies at bay for the past week.
A group of missing journalists, including two from "Newsday," turned up alive and unharmed today. Matthew McAllester says he and the three others found with him spent seven or eight days in an Iraqi jail. Freelance photographer Molly Bingham of Kentucky and a Danish journalist were also found unharmed.
In other news now, some good news actual to report concerning the five passengers who reported SARS-like symptoms on board a flight from Tokyo to San Jose. It turns out none of them has the potentially deadly and highly contagious illness. Nonetheless, the passengers say, they've been told health officials will be checking up on them.
Those are the headlines making news at this hour. Now, back to "NEWSNIGHT" with Aaron Brown.
AARON BROWN, HOST: Heidi, thank you very much.
Imagine what it was like for that young woman, Jessica Lynch, when she realized that special forces had come in, gotten into that hospital, and were taking her out.
We've already talked about Nasiriyah tonight, about a battle there overnight, and the rescue of the American POW Jessica Lynch. Those are on the table already.
We are going to go back there now to earlier yesterday, when it was a bit more quiet, and the mission was saving people, not killing them.
Here's CNN's Alessio Vinci.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALESSIO VINCI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Iraqis living in this area just outside of Nasiriyah say they had no idea what was stored inside this warehouse. So when U.S. Marines began loading their trucks with flour bags to be distributed further down the road, a group of 100 villagers converged to collect their share.
"The Iraqi military used to take all the supplies and would not pass it to the people," says Karim Jassim, with whom we spoke through a U.S. military interpreter.
Jassim, a farmer, came here with eight family members, including two young girls, in search of food. "We are hungry," he says. He has not been in town for fear of being drafted by the Iraqi military. The fighting, he says, was not so intense in his area, but two of his relatives were killed by U.S. helicopter gunships, he says.
He holds no grudges. Around here, he says, it's normal.
Arabic-speaking Marines tried to keep the unruly crowd under control, backed by heavily armed colleagues in the back. Women were allowed in first, picking up bags so large and heavy that some could not muster enough strength to carry them by themselves. Others walked away barefoot.
Nearby, beneath one of the bridges now under control of U.S. Marines, another group of villagers collects water from a filthy pond. The aftermath of intense firefight a week earlier still visible, the riverbed littered with Iraqi ammunition.
GUNNER DAVID DUNFEE, U.S. MARINE CORPS: So it is dangerous, but we know where it is. And they -- again, we've asked the civilians, please stay away, because it is dangerous.
VINCI: The entire area around the bridge is covered with hundreds of Iraqi mortars and grenades. Some of them, Marines say, could be loaded with chemical or biological agents.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We cannot destroy these ourselves. We have to have our EOD teams come out, look at them, make an assessment. Yes, it is an explosive. And then they can collect it and destroy it.
VINCI: Helping the Iraqis get food and water is a priority, U.S. Marines say. Winning their hearts and minds is as important as winning the war. Then, maybe later, just maybe, life could start to be normal again.
Alessio Vinci, CNN, with the U.S. Marines in Nasiriyah, Iraq.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: So to this point, our focus has all been in the south, moving toward Baghdad from the south, which is where the major thrust is.
Our attention turns now to the north. It's a mission that sounds right out of Afghanistan in late 2001, the United States going after a terrorist group with the help of forces who had been fighting that terrorist group for years. This also applies to northern Iraq today.
The United States hitting another terrorist group. This time it's not the Northern Alliance, but Kurdish fighters who have joined in, and they say they have scored a major victory.
Here is CNN's Brent Sadler.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRENT SADLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A group of Iraqi Kurdish fighters shows off the spoils of war, leading us into recently captured territory and the smashed remains of what they claim was once the hub of a terrorist network, a terror network they've been fighting for years, called Ansar al-Islam.
The heart of that network beat here, it's claimed, inside this mosque, at a remote Kurdish village called Biara, on the border with Iran.
Parts of mosque were flattened, the dome peppered with large shrapnel holes from American air strikes. Unavoidable damage, say Kurdish officials, in their battle to root out and destroy a web of terrorist strongholds, supported and funded, it's claimed here, by al Qaeda itself.
When the battle against Ansar was joined, it turned into a rout, taking Kurdish forces just 36 hours to defeat their enemy, the first major battlefield operation linking American special forces and Kurdish fighters in northern Iraq.
It became a spectacular success, claim these American special force officers, breaking their cover, heaping praise on the thousands of Peshmerga fighters who bore the blunt of close-quarters combat.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it's a classic example.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would say it's an outstanding example of what special forces train for in the United States, unconventional warfare, working with an indigenous force to add to their capabilities and add assistance and advice where we can.
SADLER: Ansar's forces put up a ferocious fight, it's claimed. Hundreds dead, the rest fleeing over the border to Iran. At least one of them pretended to surrender, but blew himself up.
And Ansar may have abandoned some incriminating evidence under the rubble, possibly supporting alleged links to al Qaeda-sponsored terror.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have found various documents, equipment, et cetera, that would indicate a presence of chemical and/or biological weapons.
SADLER (on camera): It now begs the question, that if American and Kurdish forces can work so well together here, then why not expand operations to break Saddam Hussein's control over the key northern cities of Kirkuk and Mosul? There may be no precise plan for that to happen now, but the Iraqi Kurds are pushing for it.
Brent Sadler, CNN, Biara, northern Iraq.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Lieutenant Colonel Ralph Peters is with us tonight. We'll talk with him and help give you a broader sense of how the fight is going and where it is going.
We'll take a break first. Our coverage continues in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: There has, two weeks into the war, been an awful lot of talk about the war plan, whether it was well thought out, whether it wasn't thought out, who thought it out, whether it is working, it is not working.
In a little bit, we will play you a long portion of the Pentagon briefing today, which was highly unusual, I think it's fair to say.
We're joined now to talk a little bit about the war and how it is playing out in the theater by Lieutenant Colonel Ralph Peters, retired.
It's good to see you again.
Sir, war is not a football game, and so to talk about momentum may sound a little inappropriate. But there is a sense, over the last couple of days, that it is moving. Do you agree?
LT. COL. RALPH PETERS (RET.), U.S. ARMY: Well, yes, it certainly is. And although it's not quite fair to talk about it as sports, we all speak in metaphors. And we don't have anybody on the bench, but the guys on the field are playing very, very well.
You know, Aaron, you made a very good point earlier when you were talking about the varieties of warfare we are seeing, where we're seeing special forces in really, you know, guerrilla operations in the north, pacification in the south, street fighting, super-high-tech warfare, air-ground combat against Republican Guards.
What you are really seeing is, on one hand, the panoply, the full range of modern, or, if you will, postmodern warfare. And on the other hand, you are seeing the reason why we continue to need to need balanced forces. And anyone who ever says, Oh, the Air Force can do it alone, or the Army can do it alone is absolutely foolish.
By the way, the other thing we are seeing that fascinates me, as our forces just chew up the Republican Guards with the air components and the ground components, you know, the Army, Marines, Air Force, pilots from all the services, working together, is, we're seeing a high-velocity war of attrition.
Now, wars of attrition have a very bad name, but there's nothing wrong with them as long as the attrition is overwhelmingly on the other side. And this is going so fast and so professionally that although, you know, there are a lot of quibbles about the plan, and certainly I have my quibbles with it, but at end of the day, the troops in the field are just performing remarkably.
BROWN: All right. Let's see if we can do two or three things here. First, going back to the thing you said at the beginning, the players on the field, but no players on the bench, to again use the sports metaphor. That is a criticism that is -- there aren't, just aren't enough soldiers on the ground, correct?
PETERS: Yes, and it's a valid criticism. And, you know, Secretary Rumsfeld could have saved himself a lot of agony if he had just last week been man enough to say, Hey, war's going very well. Plan wasn't perfect. No plan is. Let's march on.
But this Pentagon, this vanity, this need to defend the plan and insist everything is going exactly according to plan, it baffles me. It's wasted energy. Hey, nothing ever goes perfectly according to plan. The plan has been robust enough to take a few hits, and it's going very well.
So at this point, I'm sure many of your viewers share my feeling that we just need to move on and win the war, which we are doing very swiftly.
BROWN: What does "very swiftly" mean?
PETERS: Well, you know, I'd be a fool to say next week. I mean, it could be -- it could be a matter a week. It could be a matter of several weeks or a month or so. Even when Baghdad falls, it's going to take a while to mop up the holdouts who didn't get the word, the people who don't believe that Saddam is dead.
So if you took it in terms of historical wars, "swiftly" might even be two months. And even after that, it's always important to stand back -- and I know you are good at this -- and realize that we are not going to know the full results of this war in terms of the impact on Iraq, what Iraq can become, the impacts on the region, for at least a decade.
So a little patience is required. But in the meantime, the American people can be very, very proud of this effort.
BROWN: I'm going to ask General Clark this in a minute, let me ask you first, though. If you were to look for something in the next, let's say, 24 to 48 hours that will be an indicator of where this is -- where it's going and how it's going, what would it be?
PETERS: Well, actually, it would be an Iraqi attempt to use chemical weapons, because that will be his absolute last-ditch attempt because -- his last-ditch effort. Just as today, you heard -- we heard a little bit earlier on CNN, the rebroadcast of the remarks purportedly from Saddam calling for jihad.
BROWN: Yes.
PETERS: Well, you know, if anybody in Iraq has a right to jihad, it would be the Shi'as, who have been oppressed by this infidel regime of Saddam. But watch for chemical weapons. If they pop, that means it's the endgame.
BROWN: Lieutenant Colonel Peters, good to have you with us again tonight. We always enjoy talking with you.
PETERS: Thank you, Aaron. BROWN: Thank you, sir, very much.
General Clark, same question. Do you agree? Obviously if chemical weapons are thrown out into the battlefield, that is -- that is desperation at the highest order. Anything short of that a good clue as to where we are?
GEN. WESLEY CLARK (RET.), FORMER NATO SUPREME COMMANDER: Well, I think -- I think, you know, short of that, the clue will be, what's the number of armored vehicles destroyed in the push near Karbala? Have we really gotten a division's worth of combat power off the Iraqis' side of the table? If we have, then that's a major success.
If it turns out that we pushed, we shoved, we didn't -- we don't quite find the armored vehicles, then we don't know really -- we're not positive what we got our hands on. We may have pushed through another security zone.
We want to get in and destroy the first echelon Iraqi division. The sign of that will be, where is its equipment?
BROWN: General, thank you.
We will take a break. Our coverage continues in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: We've talked several times already about what went on at the Pentagon podium today. The chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the defense secretary were the briefers. In some ways, I guess, it was theater, if you will. And the tough guy, Secretary Rumsfeld, took a step back, and it was the soft-spoken guy who was the one speaking out.
Here is a long take on what was a fascinating briefing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Yes?
QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, could I ask you once again about criticism from current and former officers, about the flow of forces for the region? And also, whether there are sufficient forces in Iraq? And there were those that say that you're too enamored with air power over ground forces. I wondered if you could just comment on...
RUMSFELD: Well, why don't I...
OTHER GUY: Can I comment?
RUMSFELD: Sure.
GEN. RICHARD MYERS, CHAIRMAN, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: I would love to comment.
My view of those reports -- and since I don't know who you're quoting, who the individuals are -- is that they're bogus. There is -- I don't know how they get started, and I don't know how they have been perpetuated. But it's not been by responsible members of the team that put this all together.
They either weren't there, or they don't know, or they are working another agenda for -- and I don't know what that agenda might be.
It is not helpful to have those kind of comments come out when we got troops in combat. Because first of all, they are false, they're absolutely wrong, they bear no resemblance to the truth. And it's just harmful to our troops that are out there fighting very bravely, very courageously.
I have been in this process every step of the way as well. There is not one thing that General Franks has asked for that he hasn't gotten on the timeline that we could get it to him. And, you know, it wasn't because a late signing. It might be because we didn't have a, you know, a ship or something. But, I mean, it's not -- it's been for mechanical reasons, not because of administrative reasons, I can guarantee you that.
Every member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff signed up to this plan and the way it was executed from the first day. And they'll be signed up till the last day, because we still think it's a good plan.
Every member of General Franks' component commanders signed up for this plan as it was changed over time, and as it finally came down to be the one we went to war with. And they all stood up, and they gave a thumbs-up to the plan.
So there may be others that have other ideas of how we should have done it. And I -- and, you know, God bless them, that's a great sport here inside the Beltway. And I suppose if I -- when I retire, I will probably have my comments too. Gee, they ought to have more air power.
I wish the secretary would say we need to be more air-power- centric, perhaps. But I've never heard him say that. No, he hasn't said it, and he -- and he -- that's not what he -- that's not -- I'm not going to speak for the secretary, but that's not the kind of comments that he's been making in this whole process.
So that's -- it's just been interesting, but it's not very useful to this discussion. You know, we went in there with some very sophisticated objectives. We had diplomacy under way at the United Nations. We wanted to deploy a sufficient force, but not the kind of force that would make it looks like diplomacy that didn't have a chance to work. So we had to work that piece.
General Franks, and for the benefit of our troops, wanted to protect tactical surprise. How do you protect tactical surprise when you have 250,000 troops surrounding Iraq on D-Day? How do you do that?
Well, you do it by the method he did it, by having the types of forces. You do it by starting the ground war first, air war second. Do you think there was tactical surprise? I think there was. Do we have the oil fields in the south? About 60 percent of the oil wealth has been preserved for the Iraqi people, you bet.
Have we had a Scud fired against Jordan or Israel yet? No. Why? Because we went in very early, even before the ground war, to secure those places.
Do we have humanitarian supplies flowing into Umm Qasr now? Yes. Why? Because we put the ground forces in there early.
Were we 200 miles inside of Iraq in 36 hours? Yes.
RUMSFELD: So Tom Franks...
QUESTION: ... must get his way in the end? Did he get what -- exactly what he wanted out of it?
RUMSFELD: He seems to tell the president and me and Dick Myers that he thinks this is the plan he wants, and we have agreed to it. And we participated in it. And we like it. And no one's backing away from anything.
(CROSSTALK)
RUMSFELD: And the fact that people have been writing this stuff over and over and over again and misinforming the world is really not terribly important. What's important is what we've said, and that we're winning this activity, and it is going to end, and it will end with Saddam Hussein gone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: A taste of the briefing today.
General Clark, what was going on there tonight -- today?
CLARK: Well, Aaron, a lot of things were going on. First of all, I think -- I think Dickie Myers has a very solid point. When he says, if you're not on the inside of the plan, you really can't understand the tradeoffs, the diplomatic and military tradeoffs that were done to make the plan come out that way.
And as we talked before, my experience in Kosovo, it's very difficult, it's really impossible to criticize a plan when you haven't been on the inside of it, and look to the tradeoffs, because you just don't know what is going on in the inside.
Secondly, as far as the people who've been offering comments, those people have been offering them with the best of intent, not in criticism of the soldiers and airmen that are in there, but in their support, in response to questions about their own professional judgment. And the intent has been wholly constructive. Nobody is criticizing the magnificent performance of the men and women in uniform. Third, I think it's a great thing to see the teamwork between the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the secretary of defense, because I think that is very important.
Fourth, I think there is a certain sense in which the criticism of the assumptions that underlay the plan, that were political assumptions, has sort of rolled into criticism of the military decision-making in the plan and so forth.
And I'm not sure that there's any reason for anybody in -- on the team that's on the inside running this war to feel defensive about anything. They made some assumptions. If the assumptions work out -- had worked out, it would have been a brilliant plan. It would have been a coup de main (ph). It would have been over.
As it is, the forces are up there, they're apparently beginning the main attack on Baghdad. We haven't had any significant reversals, we haven't had lots of people lost to casualties or accidents or problems.
So the proof of plan is in the execution, and, really, that's the only way a plan could be judged from the outside. We always say there are two kinds of plans, Aaron, there's plans that might work, and there's plans that won't work. You have to pick a plan that might work, and then you have to make it work.
And that's what Tommy Franks and the team is doing over there.
BROWN: General, we will pick this up too. We need to take a break first. Our coverage continues in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: You can try and understand war by reading maps and tracing the movements of great armies and machines from here to there, and we have done some of that tonight.
But if you really want to understand war in all its complexities and courage and trauma, you need to read something else entirely. Read the letters home.
Here's CNN's Jeanne Meserve.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANDREW CARROLL, THE LEGACY PROJECT: I've called these letters pages out of our national autobiography.
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Seventy-five thousand pieces of war correspondence, from the nation's first conflict to its present one, collected by the Legacy Project. Some of the letters tear the soul, like the farewell written by a World War II POW on the back of photos of himself and his family.
CARROLL (reading): "Mommy and Dad, It's pretty hard to check out this way without a fighting chance, but we can't all live forever. Loving and waiting for you in the world beyond, your son, Lieutenant Tommy Kennedy."
MESERVE: Andrew Carroll, the force behind this project, values the mundane accounts of everyday life and hardship on the battlefront and the home front.
But there are important items too. A letter from George Herbert Walker Bush, after he was shot down in World War II. Teddy Roosevelt reflects on the death of his son. Colin Powell's condolences on the death of someone else's son.
Than there is the letter penned on Hitler's stationery by a young staff sergeant, contrasting the opulence of the Fuehrer's apartment with a just-liberated concentration camp.
CARROLL: This is the historical record. These are the eyewitnesses to these events, so that no one can ever say, Oh, this didn't happen, or, It wasn't like that. This tells us it happened, and in a very immediate and quite graphic way.
MESERVE: The common theme in letters from every war, I am OK. Don't worry. The most common phrase, I love you. Love was a complication in World War II when victory mail, dubbed V-mail, was put through machines and transferred to film for easier shipment to the front.
CARROLL: When they first started doing these, a lot of women would kiss the envelopes with, you know, lipstick, just the way they do with love letters. And so as they were going through the processing machine, the lipstick would build up, and it would jam the machines. So had to do public service announcements saying, Please don't kiss your letters, and it was called the Scarlet Scourge.
MESERVE: Then, V-mail, today, e-mail. Carroll says electronic communications tend not to be as thoughtful as letters, but there are gems, like the letter written to 7-year-old Conor by his dad in Bosnia. "No toy stores here," he writes. So he sends a flag flown over his camp in honor of Conor's birthday. "This flag represents America and makes me proud each time I see it," he writes.
CARROLL: They're sort of timeless, because whether you're going off with a musket or an M-16, and no matter how big or how small the war is, whether it's D-Day or A-Day, when which we just had, it's everything to you. This is life and death.
MESERVE: E-mails and letters from Iraq are just beginning to trickle in to the Legacy Project. One of Andrew Carroll's great regrets is these will not be the last, that the letters will keep coming as long as the wars do.
Jeanne Meserve, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: We'll update the changing face of the battlefield tonight. A number of interesting voices to join us still. Our coverage continues in a moment. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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Aired April 1, 2003 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: And good evening again, everyone. War is a series of pictures. Some of them are very ugly; some of them are good. Occasionally, we get one that is beautiful.
We have all of those tonight. But often they are pictures of uncertainty. And that's where we begin. Ryan Chilcote, embedded with the 101st Airborne Division. And a missile attack of some sort, Ryan?
RYAN CHILCOTE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's correct, Aaron. I'm in the city of Najaf. Najaf is located in central Iraq. As you know, it is a very holy city to Shia Muslims. It is home to some of the holiest sites in the Shia Muslims faith, including a mosque where many Shia Muslims of course believe that the cousin of the prophet Mohamed Ali is buried, among other very important people. So a very important place.
Just about 40 minutes ago, I was woken up by another soldier from the 101st Airborne's 1st Brigade with whom I'm right now. He said, "Put your gas mask on. We have a scud alert, a scud attack."
Just about 10 minutes later, I was told that there were two surface-to-surface missile impacts in the vicinity of Najaf. Now for reasons of operational security, I cannot tell you exactly where, although U.S. forces believe they know where one of the two missiles impacted. I cannot tell that at this point, but I can tell you two surface-to-surface missiles impacted in the area of Najaf.
One of the two sighted; the second heard. The troops subsequently have been given the all-clear. They've taken off their gas masks. That suggests that those surface-to-surface missiles did not have -- were not laced with any chemical weapons.
I know the troops just behind me just a short while ago did a head count. That's what troops in this area are doing and have been doing for the last half hour, getting accountability. So far, all troops accounted for -- Aaron.
BROWN: Is this the first time you and the 101st -- the group of the 101st you are with have encountered this sort of thing?
CHILCOTE: No, this is actually the fifth time. When I moved from Kuwait from Camp New Jersey in Kuwait into Iraq with the 101st Airborne's 3rd Brigade, we had three scud alerts, three -- they're not actually scuds. Scud alert is a term left over from the Gulf War, I should point that out. According to the U.S. military, Saddam has not used any scuds yet in this conflict. In fact, they're not sure that he has any.
What these really are surface-to-surface missiles. There are a couple of different kinds of them. All of them have warheads that are smaller and ranges that are smaller than the scuds, but still back in Camp New Jersey, there were a full three there and then one, when we were in the middle of the Kuwaiti desert in what is called an assembly area, waiting to come in. This is different, though, Aaron. This is the first surface-to-surface missile attack that I know of that has impacted inside of Iraq.
It would appear that either U.S. forces or perhaps the Shia Muslims that live in the city of Najaf who, of course, have no love loss for the Iraqi leader, President Saddam Hussein, It appears they would be the target inside Iraq. This is not an impact in Kuwait or anywhere else like we've seen before. This is perhaps something different -- Aaron.
BROWN: I'm just -- I want to be careful what I ask. Though, maybe as long as you are careful in how you answer it is OK.
CHILCOTE: Sure.
BROWN: Can you give me a sense of what your -- the group you're traveling with, the 101st -- the part of the 101st you are traveling with, what they have been involved in today? How spread out they are, that sort of thing?
CHILCOTE: Sure, Aaron. Actually, everything I am saying has been cleared. I have been authorized to say by the military commander. So there are no worries about operational security.
In fact, I have been reporting on what the 1st Brigade has been up to for the last two days. Now, yesterday -- it's now 6:05 in the morning here -- just yesterday, troops from the 1st Brigade moved into the outskirts of the city of Najaf. More than 500 infantrymen moved into the city. They went street by street, house by house, clearing and securing streets.
Basically, the idea is they needed to come in because Fedayeen fighters, the Fedayeen, a paramilitary group that has been operating out of this city, that is very loyal to President Saddam Hussein, they have been basically able -- according to the U.S. military -- to use this area as a safe haven to attack U.S. troops passing by it. So they wanted to come in and deal with that threat.
Now I said yesterday was the second day. The first day, the day before yesterday, was the scene of a massive air strike. Both Air Force, helicopter gun ships and artillery on the city. Yesterday, the troops actually came in.
And one military commander I already spoke with this morning believes that there is a relationship between the presence of U.S. troops and those missile attacks. He believes that perhaps this is President Saddam Hussein's attempt to get -- to target U.S. troops in the city of Najaf -- Aaron. BROWN: Ryan, thank you. Nicely done. Ryan Chilcote. And as he can report more, he will. And when he talked about -- this get's a little confusing, but when he talks about yesterday, he is talking about Tuesday.
OK. That's what's happening literally now. On to the other outlines of the puzzle and the pieces that are in play. And tonight just about everything seems to be in play from one respect or another. From the push to Baghdad, to a rescued POW, a lot of headlines are being torn up and being re-written tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN (voice-over): It was the middle of the night in the Persian Gulf, but good news can't wait. A prisoner of war had been rescued.
GEN. VINCENT BROOKS, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: Coalition forces have conducted a successful rescue mission of a U.S. Army prisoner of war held captive in Iraq. The soldier has been returned to a coalition- controlled area. More details will be released as soon as possible.
BROWN: It was her family who identified her. She is a West Virginian, 19-year-old Jessica Lynch, and her family says she is in good shape.
Meantime, the American bombing campaign in Baghdad went on. A large explosion tonight in the center of the city. In some cities, on the approaches to Baghdad, Karbala, for instance, there was intense fighting. Critical because the city is only 50 miles from the Iraqi capital. And far to the south, CNN's Jason Bellini described a major nighttime assault against Iraqi positions in Nasiriya.
JASON BELLINI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This offensive operation began just a few hours ago. This was a pre-planned operation, and it's involved tanks, Apache helicopter gun ships, a large number of troops moving into the city itself, south of the Euphrates River.
BROWN: And around Baghdad, American units continue to push forward. They were said to be facing Iraqi troops, which had been moved south to face them as reinforcements.
In Baghdad, Iraq's information minister read a speech on behalf of Saddam Hussein urging Iraqis to wage a holy war, a jihad against the coalition forces. "They are aggressors," he said, "evil, a curse by god." The fact that Saddam himself did not appear on state television was termed "interesting" by the Pentagon.
There was a glimpse today of ordinary life in Baghdad. These pictures were taken by the children's relief agency UNICEF. And to a soundtrack of mournful music, these images by Iraqi state television of what they said was bomb damage in the capital.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What we found here is approximately 400 to 600 rounds of high explosive mortar rounds. BROWN: British units meantime took down the Iraqi flag from this schoolhouse in southern Iraq. Inside was an enormous cache of weapons. Officers said it had been used as a staging base for the militia group called the Fedayeen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it's a classic example.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would say it's an outstanding example of what Special Forces train for in the United States: unconventional warfare, working with an indigenous force to add to their capabilities and assistance and advice where we can.
BROWN: To the north, American Special Forces troops applauded what commanders said was a big success: the capture a stronghold they had long sought near the Iranian border. It was a mosque used as a headquarters by the group Ansar al Islam, a group linked by the Pentagon to al Qaeda.
Kurdish fighters also joined American troops in collecting hundreds of Iraqi mines and watching as American air power pummeled Iraqi positions near the city of Kirkuk. Some of the day's most important news, though, wasn't even in Iraq. Units of the American 4th Infantry Division finally arrived in Kuwait City. At rest for the time being, but soon, it seems, headed for Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: A quick overview of the day. There seemed to be a number, perhaps three major story lines running through the day.
On the ground, this major push on the ground toward Baghdad. That obviously has somewhere to go yet. A counter offensive, if you will, from the podium at the Pentagon today over criticism of the war plan itself. And then tonight the news that a POW, Jessica Lynch, had been rescued.
To the Pentagon now, and our senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre. I'm not sure we will get through all of those. Let's start with Private First Class Lynch. What can you add? What do you know about her condition, her whereabouts, and how she got out?
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, we know that she has been through quite an ordeal. According to sources at the Pentagon, when she was rescued she had more than one gunshot wound. It's not clear where she got these wounds. If she's had them the entire time of captivity or from something that happened in the raid.
But she was in a hospital in Nasiriya. And the U.S. learned she was in this hospital, and they were able to arrange a mission with a joint special forces team to go in. This was a helicopter assault, forced entry, gun fire, classic special operations mission. Went into the hospital, rescued Jessica Lynch.
Were also looking for other people, we're told, including this guy called "Chemical Ali," the cousin of Saddam Hussein who is a commander in the south. We're not clear whether they found him, or are on his trail, or what's going on with him. But that was part of this operation as well.
She's been -- Jessica Lynch has been taken to a medical facility, and she's being treated now with U.S. military personnel. As for the larger war itself, it turns out that this is the night the so-called battle for Baghdad is beginning. One military official told me probably more accurate to call it the battle with the Republican Guard.
The strategy is apparently to attack at least two Republican Guard divisions. And then perhaps punch through and head to Baghdad, or perhaps attack the other divisions sequentially. It's not entirely clear. But this is not just one of those probing attacks. This is a major ground offensive.
And, by the way, Najaf, where Ryan Chilcote is, is now pretty much under the control of U.S. forces. And one of the things they are seeing there they that they haven't seen up till now is a fairly substantial amount of the population there seems to be welcoming the U.S. troops, once the Saddam Hussein loyalists were driven out of the city.
BROWN: And, just briefly, on the secretary and the chairman of the joint chiefs today, were they reacting to -- I think people who have been following the story know this, so I'll do this in a sentence or two. They very angrily and forcefully defended the plan and attacked the critics of the plan. And by and large, they're talking about -- well, I will let you characterize it. Were they reacting to a specific article or a general sense of criticism?
MCINTYRE: Well, the series of articles in "The New York Times" today -- they had a series of articles that were quite critical of the plan. And Rumsfeld was being questioned about an article in "The New York Times" that quoted an unnamed colonel as saying Rumsfeld wanted to win this war on the cheap and he was getting what he wanted.
This was obviously somebody in the field frustrated that they didn't have enough -- they didn't feel they had enough of what they needed to get the job done. Now Rumsfeld, before he had a chance to answers, General Myers, the joint chiefs chairman, sort of jumped in. You could see he was champing at the bit to answer that question.
And he went into a long, very emotional defense of the war plan. How everybody at the Pentagon had signed off on it. How it had been up and down the chain of command. How people who were criticizing it either didn't understand it or weren't there.
And it was quite unusual to see General Myers this agitated about something. And Rumsfeld just sort of sat back and let him carry the day. And in the end, I think Secretary Rumsfeld's message was, have some patience, just watch and see what happens. And now of course we're starting to see the beginning of that now with this ground offensive that's under way.
BROWN: Jamie, thank you. Jamie McIntyre, our senior Pentagon correspondent.
Jessica Lynch was part of the 507, this maintenance company that on the first Sunday after the war began. It's unclear how precisely how they encountered Iraqis, but they did. There were a number of POWs that were taken. And still is one of the mysteries of this.
Jean Offutt is the public information officer at Fort Bliss, home of the 507th. And she joins us now. What can you tell us about Jessica Lynch and her condition, and what is next for her?
JEAN OFFUTT, FORT BLISS PUBLIC AFFAIRS OFFICER: Well, I can tell you we are overjoyed here at Fort Bliss to hear that she's safe, that she's back being taken care of. We hope that that happens to the many others from the 507th that are still unaccounted for. So we're just hoping every day that everyone comes back safe.
BROWN: How many, Ms. Offutt, do you have that are still unaccounted for?
OFFUTT: Well, we have of course the five POWs, and we have the nine -- well, eight now that are unaccounted for.
BROWN: How did the news get to the base?
OFFUTT: Well, we started to hear reports from various media sources and check through our official channels. And we were told in that manner.
BROWN: You were ultimately told. Officially, someone called the base and said we got her?
OFFUTT: Yes.
BROWN: Do you know what next stages of her life are going to be, where she will be taken next, and what will follow that?
OFFUTT: Well, I guess that all depends on the circumstances. I am sure that she'll be treated medically, debriefed, and will probably go to somewhere near her home, I would imagine, and join up with her family, which I'm sure they're very happy to hear that she'll be coming home to them soon.
BROWN: I would say that's probably the understatement of the day. It's, I know, difficult at the 507th at Fort Bliss, because there's still much unknown, as you point out. There hasn't been a lot of good news for you. So today must have been especially nice. Thank you for your time this evening.
OFFUTT: Thank you.
BROWN: Jean Offutt, who is the public information officer at Fort Bliss.
Again, there are many questions about what happened to the 507th, this maintenance group that was lost on the first Sunday of the war. Five people taken prisoner; a number of missing. Jessica Lynch among them.
Linda Davies last heard from Jessica Lynch in a letter the week before she disappeared. Linda Davies is a kindergarten teacher. She was Jessica kindergarten teacher not that many years ago. Jessica is only 19.
And Linda joins us now on the phone. It's good to have you with us. Just describe the town right now. It must be bouncing around.
LINDA DAVIES, JESSICA LYNCH'S KINDERGARTEN TEACHER: It is wild here. Sirens going off, horns honking. People shouting through the streets and fireworks going off.
BROWN: How big a city is it?
DAVIES: We have around 900 here in Elizabeth. In the whole county there's around 5,000.
BROWN: So certainly in Elizabeth it's one of those towns where everybody knows everybody, and everybody knows the Lynches and probably knew Jessica?
DAVIES: Oh, yes. Yes. And this word spread very quickly this evening. When the family got the word, I would say within an hour and a half the whole country new.
BROWN: And what happened? Everybody literally came out in the streets?
DAVIES: Yes. In fact, it was my neighbor that came running over. She has been in close contact with the Lynches through this whole ordeal, and had screened calls for them actually for the last week or so. And she came rung over, pounding on my door, screaming, "Jessica's alive, Jessica's alive. Come and go with me." So we rushed up to the Lynches' house to watch all the official news come in.
BROWN: And tell me about her parents and how they are and what they are doing right now.
DAVIES: Well, of course, you know, they are just so excited and looking for the holding and hugging their little girl again.
BROWN: I imagine so. Let's talk about their little girl. She is 19 years old. She actually is -- she is not a big woman, certainly.
DAVIES: Right.
BROWN: And she went into the service because she wanted to get some money to go to college, right?
DAVIES: Right. That's what I understand. She also wanted to do some traveling, and she told me in the last letter I had gotten from her that she had accomplished that goal. And of course her next goal is to become a teacher. BROWN: And in these letters that you would get from her, had she -- do you sense that she is the same kid who left from West Virginia to join the Army, or did she seem older, different?
DAVIES: She is pretty much the same Jessica, but much more mature. And she knew what she wanted to do. She went out and she set those goals, and went out and did them.
BROWN: You must be -- I mean this would be great news in New York City. It would be great news in any -- in any place. I would imagine the whole town, though, for the last week and a half has been beside itself with worry. Now to get this news...
DAVIES: Oh, it's just amazing. There has been of course prayers. We've had candlelight vigil here.
We had another gathorg (ph) Saturday where we put yellow ribbons on the trees, on the courthouse lawn, along with the black ribbons for the POWs and the MIAs, and had a service for her there. The community has pulled together. And of course we have talked to people all over the world. So we know that there were prayers going out for Jessica for this past week, and they've certainly been answered.
BROWN: It's great to have this occasion to talk to you. It's as simple as that. I am glad the news is the best possible news. And thank you for your time tonight.
DAVIES: Thank you.
BROWN: Linda Davies, who was Jessica Lynch's kindergarten teacher back there in Elizabeth, West Virginia. A pretty happy town tonight.
I don't think the town you are looking at is a very happy town. That's Baghdad. It's been another day, another night of bombing there.
We're joined by Nic Robertson, who keeps track of the going's on in Baghdad for us. Nic is near the border with Iraq in Jordan. Nic, good day to you.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good day to you, Aaron. Well, it was a fairly quiet night in Baghdad until a couple of hours before dawn, and then there were several loud detonations in the city. Reporters there say that one of the locations hit is the presidential compound right on the Tigris River. It's been hit a number of times before.
Also, just across the river from there, just over the bridge from the Ministry of Information, a communication's center that was targeted several days ago. That was hit as well. Apparently, a large hole knocked out of the side of the building. A few days ago, the base of the building appeared to be targeted. Now the upper floors have been hit as well.
Also, an interesting day in as much as a statement from President Saddam Hussein. The statement that he didn't deliver himself, and that did raise some questions about why not, why was he not available to do it. But the message was delivered by the Information Minister Mohammed al-Sahaf. A very clear, concise, precise message for a focus.
That in itself quite unusual for the Iraqi leader to deliver something so straightforward. The message was this: "This is an Islamic country. You are Muslims. Your country has been invaded by infidel, by foreigners. They are on your soil and you should rise up in a jihad."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MOHAMMED SAEED AL-SAHAF, IRAQI INFORMATION MINISTER (through translator): The religious men with all their fatwas, today they all concur that the invaders and the aggressors, what they are doing is an aggression on religion and self and on the Islamic nation. Therefore, jihad is a duty.
And whoever dies will be rewarded by heaven. And god will be satisfied with their sacrifice. Take your chance. This is what god requested from you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTSON: Now perhaps this message designed to strike resonance in those that hold their religious teachings very close to their heart. And perhaps the Iraqi leadership here aiming particularly the message to the Shia community in the south of Iraq, whose help they need very much at this time, because that's the direction for which the coalition forces are advancing on Baghdad. Absolutely no indication yet how this message was received -- Aaron.
BROWN: To this point, the messages have been more about Iraqi nationalism as opposed to a religious call to battle. Do we read anything into that, into the change?
ROBERTSON: We have heard calls to jihad before, but this was very focused. And this was a huge emphasis put on this. A call not just to the Shia in the south, but all Muslims in Iraq.
Some people might analyze this and say, is this a last-ditch attempt by the leadership to get as much popular support as they can? Quite possibly that may be the case. But what it would do, perhaps not getting people to rise up arms against the coalition forces, but for those religious faithful in the south it will give them a dilemma.
This is the teaching of the holy Quran. What are they to do? To follow what the Quran says, or perhaps go against the leadership? Maybe not fight against the coalition, but should they go and tell the coalition forces about a Republican Guard unit or a weapon stash that's near their house?
This may put some people in a position of greater personal dilemma. It would go against their religious teachings to disobey, but, at the same time, it may go against as well what they believe about the leadership in Iraq -- Aaron.
BROWN: Nic, thank you. Nic Robertson, who keeps an eye on Baghdad. And Nic would have preferred to be in Baghdad, but as I guess most of you know by now, he was expelled a week ago and is out of the country.
The ground portion that Jamie McIntyre referred to at the top of the program may be -- just now be -- just now getting under way. But in fact, the battle for Baghdad or the battle against the Republican Guard has been going on for several days. General Wes Clark, who will join us in a little bit, said to us the other night, you will know when it begins when they start pounding from the air, those Republican Guard troops.
And they have been pounding now for several days, those Republican Guard troops that are outside in a ring outside of the city. Bob Franken is at a coalition air base not far from the Iraqi border, and he joins us now. Bob, good evening.
BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good evening. And, as a matter of fact, that is an important point, Aaron. About two thirds of the 800 actual raids and attacks that were conducted by the 2,000 jets or so that took off in the last 24-hour reporting period, two thirds of them ran missions against the Republican Guard. Which, of course, makes the point you are trying to make, that they are trying to soften up the Republican Guard for the ground assault that is apparently going to be following fairly soon.
It's been sort of probative thus far. But it's been anything but probative as far as the Air Force is concerned. They have been reigning their bombs and their machine gun bullets on them now for the last couple of days.
As I said, there were a total of 1,900 sorties; about the same 800 attacks, including about 50 that were directly aimed at Baghdad. Now this means that they're going around the clock, that the planes take off, they do their missions, and then they come back and they're quickly turned around, which is meant that they have really had intense pressure in the maintenance pits.
As a matter of fact, the planes do come in very quickly; they're taxied in. The workers immediately jump on them like the old-time gas stations. They can get these planes out in just about a half hour if they need too.
It means that they have been working 12 to 14-hour shifts in the maintenance areas on the flight lines. And, as a matter of fact, many of the people are getting tired, but they are saying that they're just going to keep on going. They realize that they're an important part of this operation, but it is becoming harder and harder work. And of course it's going to get harder as the missions keep on increasing as the intensity increases -- Aaron.
BROWN: Bob, we're a little long tonight. But just quickly, do you get the feeling from them that they get the feeling it is the beginning -- the beginning of the end game? FRANKEN: Well, they get the feeling that it's becoming more and more important. Of course, they're all hoping that that means that it's going to be over fairly soon.
BROWN: Don't know about that. Thank you, Bob. Bob Franken at an air base, and we'll hear from him again before the night is out.
We'll talk with General Clark in a moment. We take a break first. Our coverage continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Retired General Wesley Clark joins us. General, I suppose there are a lot of things we could talk about, and over the next hour and a half or so will talk about. But let's talk about what the battlefield looks like right now and kind of where we are at this moment.
GEN. WESLEY CLARK (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well Aaron, I think the most important thing is the assessments of the strength of the Medina division. Which, for the last couple of days, we have been hearing about the pounding its taken, and now the Air Force, at least according to the publicly released information, is assessing it below 50 percent strength.
And we've been pushing and probing and prodding and gaining and maintaining contact with the Medina division. That's what you have to do with ground forces. But it's the air that has been carrying the brunt of the effort.
And now it would appear that what we are preparing to do is to shift into what we would called a reconnaissance-led attack. In other words, we can't be positive exactly how much has been killed from the air, but what we would do is put the forces against it, and if we get a breakthrough, exploit it.
BROWN: We'll pick up on that theme. We will talk a little bit about what went on in the Pentagon. You're in New York tonight. Eventually you're going to get back down here, I assume. It's good to have you with us.
CLARK: I will.
BROWN: We'll update the day's headlines, take a short break. Our coverage continues in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everyone. I'm Heidi Collins. Here's the news that's happening at this hour.
Important developments out of Iraq tonight, including word of a major battle between U.S. and two Republican Guard divisions south of Baghdad.
Also today, coalition war planes took aim at more targets inside the Iraqi capital, including the building that's home to an international telephone exchange.
A Pentagon source says rescued POW Jessica Lynch has been through, quote, "quite an ordeal." The 19-year-old was plucked from an Iraqi hospital today by special forces personnel. She reportedly suffered multiple gunshot wounds in the ambush that led to her capture, and is now listed in stable condition.
In the central Iraq city of Najaf, about 500 troops from the 101st Airborne Division went door to door today looking for Iraqi fighters. They reportedly encountered no resistance and suffered no casualties.
Meanwhile, near Basra, coalition forces continue to exchange fire with paramilitaries, who've been keeping the allies at bay for the past week.
A group of missing journalists, including two from "Newsday," turned up alive and unharmed today. Matthew McAllester says he and the three others found with him spent seven or eight days in an Iraqi jail. Freelance photographer Molly Bingham of Kentucky and a Danish journalist were also found unharmed.
In other news now, some good news actual to report concerning the five passengers who reported SARS-like symptoms on board a flight from Tokyo to San Jose. It turns out none of them has the potentially deadly and highly contagious illness. Nonetheless, the passengers say, they've been told health officials will be checking up on them.
Those are the headlines making news at this hour. Now, back to "NEWSNIGHT" with Aaron Brown.
AARON BROWN, HOST: Heidi, thank you very much.
Imagine what it was like for that young woman, Jessica Lynch, when she realized that special forces had come in, gotten into that hospital, and were taking her out.
We've already talked about Nasiriyah tonight, about a battle there overnight, and the rescue of the American POW Jessica Lynch. Those are on the table already.
We are going to go back there now to earlier yesterday, when it was a bit more quiet, and the mission was saving people, not killing them.
Here's CNN's Alessio Vinci.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALESSIO VINCI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Iraqis living in this area just outside of Nasiriyah say they had no idea what was stored inside this warehouse. So when U.S. Marines began loading their trucks with flour bags to be distributed further down the road, a group of 100 villagers converged to collect their share.
"The Iraqi military used to take all the supplies and would not pass it to the people," says Karim Jassim, with whom we spoke through a U.S. military interpreter.
Jassim, a farmer, came here with eight family members, including two young girls, in search of food. "We are hungry," he says. He has not been in town for fear of being drafted by the Iraqi military. The fighting, he says, was not so intense in his area, but two of his relatives were killed by U.S. helicopter gunships, he says.
He holds no grudges. Around here, he says, it's normal.
Arabic-speaking Marines tried to keep the unruly crowd under control, backed by heavily armed colleagues in the back. Women were allowed in first, picking up bags so large and heavy that some could not muster enough strength to carry them by themselves. Others walked away barefoot.
Nearby, beneath one of the bridges now under control of U.S. Marines, another group of villagers collects water from a filthy pond. The aftermath of intense firefight a week earlier still visible, the riverbed littered with Iraqi ammunition.
GUNNER DAVID DUNFEE, U.S. MARINE CORPS: So it is dangerous, but we know where it is. And they -- again, we've asked the civilians, please stay away, because it is dangerous.
VINCI: The entire area around the bridge is covered with hundreds of Iraqi mortars and grenades. Some of them, Marines say, could be loaded with chemical or biological agents.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We cannot destroy these ourselves. We have to have our EOD teams come out, look at them, make an assessment. Yes, it is an explosive. And then they can collect it and destroy it.
VINCI: Helping the Iraqis get food and water is a priority, U.S. Marines say. Winning their hearts and minds is as important as winning the war. Then, maybe later, just maybe, life could start to be normal again.
Alessio Vinci, CNN, with the U.S. Marines in Nasiriyah, Iraq.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: So to this point, our focus has all been in the south, moving toward Baghdad from the south, which is where the major thrust is.
Our attention turns now to the north. It's a mission that sounds right out of Afghanistan in late 2001, the United States going after a terrorist group with the help of forces who had been fighting that terrorist group for years. This also applies to northern Iraq today.
The United States hitting another terrorist group. This time it's not the Northern Alliance, but Kurdish fighters who have joined in, and they say they have scored a major victory.
Here is CNN's Brent Sadler.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRENT SADLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A group of Iraqi Kurdish fighters shows off the spoils of war, leading us into recently captured territory and the smashed remains of what they claim was once the hub of a terrorist network, a terror network they've been fighting for years, called Ansar al-Islam.
The heart of that network beat here, it's claimed, inside this mosque, at a remote Kurdish village called Biara, on the border with Iran.
Parts of mosque were flattened, the dome peppered with large shrapnel holes from American air strikes. Unavoidable damage, say Kurdish officials, in their battle to root out and destroy a web of terrorist strongholds, supported and funded, it's claimed here, by al Qaeda itself.
When the battle against Ansar was joined, it turned into a rout, taking Kurdish forces just 36 hours to defeat their enemy, the first major battlefield operation linking American special forces and Kurdish fighters in northern Iraq.
It became a spectacular success, claim these American special force officers, breaking their cover, heaping praise on the thousands of Peshmerga fighters who bore the blunt of close-quarters combat.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it's a classic example.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would say it's an outstanding example of what special forces train for in the United States, unconventional warfare, working with an indigenous force to add to their capabilities and add assistance and advice where we can.
SADLER: Ansar's forces put up a ferocious fight, it's claimed. Hundreds dead, the rest fleeing over the border to Iran. At least one of them pretended to surrender, but blew himself up.
And Ansar may have abandoned some incriminating evidence under the rubble, possibly supporting alleged links to al Qaeda-sponsored terror.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have found various documents, equipment, et cetera, that would indicate a presence of chemical and/or biological weapons.
SADLER (on camera): It now begs the question, that if American and Kurdish forces can work so well together here, then why not expand operations to break Saddam Hussein's control over the key northern cities of Kirkuk and Mosul? There may be no precise plan for that to happen now, but the Iraqi Kurds are pushing for it.
Brent Sadler, CNN, Biara, northern Iraq.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Lieutenant Colonel Ralph Peters is with us tonight. We'll talk with him and help give you a broader sense of how the fight is going and where it is going.
We'll take a break first. Our coverage continues in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: There has, two weeks into the war, been an awful lot of talk about the war plan, whether it was well thought out, whether it wasn't thought out, who thought it out, whether it is working, it is not working.
In a little bit, we will play you a long portion of the Pentagon briefing today, which was highly unusual, I think it's fair to say.
We're joined now to talk a little bit about the war and how it is playing out in the theater by Lieutenant Colonel Ralph Peters, retired.
It's good to see you again.
Sir, war is not a football game, and so to talk about momentum may sound a little inappropriate. But there is a sense, over the last couple of days, that it is moving. Do you agree?
LT. COL. RALPH PETERS (RET.), U.S. ARMY: Well, yes, it certainly is. And although it's not quite fair to talk about it as sports, we all speak in metaphors. And we don't have anybody on the bench, but the guys on the field are playing very, very well.
You know, Aaron, you made a very good point earlier when you were talking about the varieties of warfare we are seeing, where we're seeing special forces in really, you know, guerrilla operations in the north, pacification in the south, street fighting, super-high-tech warfare, air-ground combat against Republican Guards.
What you are really seeing is, on one hand, the panoply, the full range of modern, or, if you will, postmodern warfare. And on the other hand, you are seeing the reason why we continue to need to need balanced forces. And anyone who ever says, Oh, the Air Force can do it alone, or the Army can do it alone is absolutely foolish.
By the way, the other thing we are seeing that fascinates me, as our forces just chew up the Republican Guards with the air components and the ground components, you know, the Army, Marines, Air Force, pilots from all the services, working together, is, we're seeing a high-velocity war of attrition.
Now, wars of attrition have a very bad name, but there's nothing wrong with them as long as the attrition is overwhelmingly on the other side. And this is going so fast and so professionally that although, you know, there are a lot of quibbles about the plan, and certainly I have my quibbles with it, but at end of the day, the troops in the field are just performing remarkably.
BROWN: All right. Let's see if we can do two or three things here. First, going back to the thing you said at the beginning, the players on the field, but no players on the bench, to again use the sports metaphor. That is a criticism that is -- there aren't, just aren't enough soldiers on the ground, correct?
PETERS: Yes, and it's a valid criticism. And, you know, Secretary Rumsfeld could have saved himself a lot of agony if he had just last week been man enough to say, Hey, war's going very well. Plan wasn't perfect. No plan is. Let's march on.
But this Pentagon, this vanity, this need to defend the plan and insist everything is going exactly according to plan, it baffles me. It's wasted energy. Hey, nothing ever goes perfectly according to plan. The plan has been robust enough to take a few hits, and it's going very well.
So at this point, I'm sure many of your viewers share my feeling that we just need to move on and win the war, which we are doing very swiftly.
BROWN: What does "very swiftly" mean?
PETERS: Well, you know, I'd be a fool to say next week. I mean, it could be -- it could be a matter a week. It could be a matter of several weeks or a month or so. Even when Baghdad falls, it's going to take a while to mop up the holdouts who didn't get the word, the people who don't believe that Saddam is dead.
So if you took it in terms of historical wars, "swiftly" might even be two months. And even after that, it's always important to stand back -- and I know you are good at this -- and realize that we are not going to know the full results of this war in terms of the impact on Iraq, what Iraq can become, the impacts on the region, for at least a decade.
So a little patience is required. But in the meantime, the American people can be very, very proud of this effort.
BROWN: I'm going to ask General Clark this in a minute, let me ask you first, though. If you were to look for something in the next, let's say, 24 to 48 hours that will be an indicator of where this is -- where it's going and how it's going, what would it be?
PETERS: Well, actually, it would be an Iraqi attempt to use chemical weapons, because that will be his absolute last-ditch attempt because -- his last-ditch effort. Just as today, you heard -- we heard a little bit earlier on CNN, the rebroadcast of the remarks purportedly from Saddam calling for jihad.
BROWN: Yes.
PETERS: Well, you know, if anybody in Iraq has a right to jihad, it would be the Shi'as, who have been oppressed by this infidel regime of Saddam. But watch for chemical weapons. If they pop, that means it's the endgame.
BROWN: Lieutenant Colonel Peters, good to have you with us again tonight. We always enjoy talking with you.
PETERS: Thank you, Aaron. BROWN: Thank you, sir, very much.
General Clark, same question. Do you agree? Obviously if chemical weapons are thrown out into the battlefield, that is -- that is desperation at the highest order. Anything short of that a good clue as to where we are?
GEN. WESLEY CLARK (RET.), FORMER NATO SUPREME COMMANDER: Well, I think -- I think, you know, short of that, the clue will be, what's the number of armored vehicles destroyed in the push near Karbala? Have we really gotten a division's worth of combat power off the Iraqis' side of the table? If we have, then that's a major success.
If it turns out that we pushed, we shoved, we didn't -- we don't quite find the armored vehicles, then we don't know really -- we're not positive what we got our hands on. We may have pushed through another security zone.
We want to get in and destroy the first echelon Iraqi division. The sign of that will be, where is its equipment?
BROWN: General, thank you.
We will take a break. Our coverage continues in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: We've talked several times already about what went on at the Pentagon podium today. The chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the defense secretary were the briefers. In some ways, I guess, it was theater, if you will. And the tough guy, Secretary Rumsfeld, took a step back, and it was the soft-spoken guy who was the one speaking out.
Here is a long take on what was a fascinating briefing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Yes?
QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, could I ask you once again about criticism from current and former officers, about the flow of forces for the region? And also, whether there are sufficient forces in Iraq? And there were those that say that you're too enamored with air power over ground forces. I wondered if you could just comment on...
RUMSFELD: Well, why don't I...
OTHER GUY: Can I comment?
RUMSFELD: Sure.
GEN. RICHARD MYERS, CHAIRMAN, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: I would love to comment.
My view of those reports -- and since I don't know who you're quoting, who the individuals are -- is that they're bogus. There is -- I don't know how they get started, and I don't know how they have been perpetuated. But it's not been by responsible members of the team that put this all together.
They either weren't there, or they don't know, or they are working another agenda for -- and I don't know what that agenda might be.
It is not helpful to have those kind of comments come out when we got troops in combat. Because first of all, they are false, they're absolutely wrong, they bear no resemblance to the truth. And it's just harmful to our troops that are out there fighting very bravely, very courageously.
I have been in this process every step of the way as well. There is not one thing that General Franks has asked for that he hasn't gotten on the timeline that we could get it to him. And, you know, it wasn't because a late signing. It might be because we didn't have a, you know, a ship or something. But, I mean, it's not -- it's been for mechanical reasons, not because of administrative reasons, I can guarantee you that.
Every member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff signed up to this plan and the way it was executed from the first day. And they'll be signed up till the last day, because we still think it's a good plan.
Every member of General Franks' component commanders signed up for this plan as it was changed over time, and as it finally came down to be the one we went to war with. And they all stood up, and they gave a thumbs-up to the plan.
So there may be others that have other ideas of how we should have done it. And I -- and, you know, God bless them, that's a great sport here inside the Beltway. And I suppose if I -- when I retire, I will probably have my comments too. Gee, they ought to have more air power.
I wish the secretary would say we need to be more air-power- centric, perhaps. But I've never heard him say that. No, he hasn't said it, and he -- and he -- that's not what he -- that's not -- I'm not going to speak for the secretary, but that's not the kind of comments that he's been making in this whole process.
So that's -- it's just been interesting, but it's not very useful to this discussion. You know, we went in there with some very sophisticated objectives. We had diplomacy under way at the United Nations. We wanted to deploy a sufficient force, but not the kind of force that would make it looks like diplomacy that didn't have a chance to work. So we had to work that piece.
General Franks, and for the benefit of our troops, wanted to protect tactical surprise. How do you protect tactical surprise when you have 250,000 troops surrounding Iraq on D-Day? How do you do that?
Well, you do it by the method he did it, by having the types of forces. You do it by starting the ground war first, air war second. Do you think there was tactical surprise? I think there was. Do we have the oil fields in the south? About 60 percent of the oil wealth has been preserved for the Iraqi people, you bet.
Have we had a Scud fired against Jordan or Israel yet? No. Why? Because we went in very early, even before the ground war, to secure those places.
Do we have humanitarian supplies flowing into Umm Qasr now? Yes. Why? Because we put the ground forces in there early.
Were we 200 miles inside of Iraq in 36 hours? Yes.
RUMSFELD: So Tom Franks...
QUESTION: ... must get his way in the end? Did he get what -- exactly what he wanted out of it?
RUMSFELD: He seems to tell the president and me and Dick Myers that he thinks this is the plan he wants, and we have agreed to it. And we participated in it. And we like it. And no one's backing away from anything.
(CROSSTALK)
RUMSFELD: And the fact that people have been writing this stuff over and over and over again and misinforming the world is really not terribly important. What's important is what we've said, and that we're winning this activity, and it is going to end, and it will end with Saddam Hussein gone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: A taste of the briefing today.
General Clark, what was going on there tonight -- today?
CLARK: Well, Aaron, a lot of things were going on. First of all, I think -- I think Dickie Myers has a very solid point. When he says, if you're not on the inside of the plan, you really can't understand the tradeoffs, the diplomatic and military tradeoffs that were done to make the plan come out that way.
And as we talked before, my experience in Kosovo, it's very difficult, it's really impossible to criticize a plan when you haven't been on the inside of it, and look to the tradeoffs, because you just don't know what is going on in the inside.
Secondly, as far as the people who've been offering comments, those people have been offering them with the best of intent, not in criticism of the soldiers and airmen that are in there, but in their support, in response to questions about their own professional judgment. And the intent has been wholly constructive. Nobody is criticizing the magnificent performance of the men and women in uniform. Third, I think it's a great thing to see the teamwork between the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the secretary of defense, because I think that is very important.
Fourth, I think there is a certain sense in which the criticism of the assumptions that underlay the plan, that were political assumptions, has sort of rolled into criticism of the military decision-making in the plan and so forth.
And I'm not sure that there's any reason for anybody in -- on the team that's on the inside running this war to feel defensive about anything. They made some assumptions. If the assumptions work out -- had worked out, it would have been a brilliant plan. It would have been a coup de main (ph). It would have been over.
As it is, the forces are up there, they're apparently beginning the main attack on Baghdad. We haven't had any significant reversals, we haven't had lots of people lost to casualties or accidents or problems.
So the proof of plan is in the execution, and, really, that's the only way a plan could be judged from the outside. We always say there are two kinds of plans, Aaron, there's plans that might work, and there's plans that won't work. You have to pick a plan that might work, and then you have to make it work.
And that's what Tommy Franks and the team is doing over there.
BROWN: General, we will pick this up too. We need to take a break first. Our coverage continues in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: You can try and understand war by reading maps and tracing the movements of great armies and machines from here to there, and we have done some of that tonight.
But if you really want to understand war in all its complexities and courage and trauma, you need to read something else entirely. Read the letters home.
Here's CNN's Jeanne Meserve.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANDREW CARROLL, THE LEGACY PROJECT: I've called these letters pages out of our national autobiography.
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Seventy-five thousand pieces of war correspondence, from the nation's first conflict to its present one, collected by the Legacy Project. Some of the letters tear the soul, like the farewell written by a World War II POW on the back of photos of himself and his family.
CARROLL (reading): "Mommy and Dad, It's pretty hard to check out this way without a fighting chance, but we can't all live forever. Loving and waiting for you in the world beyond, your son, Lieutenant Tommy Kennedy."
MESERVE: Andrew Carroll, the force behind this project, values the mundane accounts of everyday life and hardship on the battlefront and the home front.
But there are important items too. A letter from George Herbert Walker Bush, after he was shot down in World War II. Teddy Roosevelt reflects on the death of his son. Colin Powell's condolences on the death of someone else's son.
Than there is the letter penned on Hitler's stationery by a young staff sergeant, contrasting the opulence of the Fuehrer's apartment with a just-liberated concentration camp.
CARROLL: This is the historical record. These are the eyewitnesses to these events, so that no one can ever say, Oh, this didn't happen, or, It wasn't like that. This tells us it happened, and in a very immediate and quite graphic way.
MESERVE: The common theme in letters from every war, I am OK. Don't worry. The most common phrase, I love you. Love was a complication in World War II when victory mail, dubbed V-mail, was put through machines and transferred to film for easier shipment to the front.
CARROLL: When they first started doing these, a lot of women would kiss the envelopes with, you know, lipstick, just the way they do with love letters. And so as they were going through the processing machine, the lipstick would build up, and it would jam the machines. So had to do public service announcements saying, Please don't kiss your letters, and it was called the Scarlet Scourge.
MESERVE: Then, V-mail, today, e-mail. Carroll says electronic communications tend not to be as thoughtful as letters, but there are gems, like the letter written to 7-year-old Conor by his dad in Bosnia. "No toy stores here," he writes. So he sends a flag flown over his camp in honor of Conor's birthday. "This flag represents America and makes me proud each time I see it," he writes.
CARROLL: They're sort of timeless, because whether you're going off with a musket or an M-16, and no matter how big or how small the war is, whether it's D-Day or A-Day, when which we just had, it's everything to you. This is life and death.
MESERVE: E-mails and letters from Iraq are just beginning to trickle in to the Legacy Project. One of Andrew Carroll's great regrets is these will not be the last, that the letters will keep coming as long as the wars do.
Jeanne Meserve, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: We'll update the changing face of the battlefield tonight. A number of interesting voices to join us still. Our coverage continues in a moment. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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