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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown

Coalition Troops Challenge Might of Saddam Hussein's Defenders

Aired April 05, 2003 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: And what a day it has been. There have been some major events during the past 24 hours. Here's a look at the key developments today.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER (voice-over): If there was any question that U.S. led forces had entered Baghdad, here was the proof. On day 18 of the war, coalition troops advanced from several directions to challenge the might of Saddam Hussein's defenders, who military leaders say have been pushed back deeper into Iraq's capitol.

The U.S. Army said its 3rd Infantry Division fought Iraqi Republican Guard troops at a Republican Guard barracks in southwest Baghdad. Iraq's information minister Mohammed Saeed Al-Sahaf denied these reports, insisting the coalition was further from Baghdad than what is being reported.

MOHAMMED AL-SAHAF: (through translator) These pictures have nothing to do with what's happened last evening or today. We kicked them out. We pulverized them.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They have seen them on the southwest of the city. They have seen them on the southeast of the city. Indeed...

COOPER: However, sources tell CNN's Nic Robertson U.S. soldiers were as close to the city's center as Saddam Bridge, next to Baghdad University, about a mile from one of Saddam Hussein's presidential palaces.

VICTOR RENUART, MAJ. GEN., U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: Good afternoon everybody.

COOPER: At the Central Command briefing Saturday, Major General Victor Renuart, Junior said there is still a long way to go.

RENUART: But this fight is far from over. As we have said, we've been able to move into the area of Baghdad city. As you look at the map of Iraq, you'll note that there are many other parts of the country where we have not yet taken control of enemy forces in that region. And so the fight will continue. The fight is far from finished in Baghdad.

COOPER: Evidence of that to the north, as CNN's Brent Sadler witnessed U.S. Special Forces strike bunker targets along the northern front. BRENT SADLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It was absolutely extraordinary to see the precision of these air strikes against one ridge occupied by Iraqi troops with machine guns.

COOPER: And in the south, on the outskirts of Basra, Iraq's second largest city, Mike Boettcher, embedded with Special Forces, came under Iraqi mortar fire, while coalition forces established a military checkpoint.

Also in Basra, a grim discovery. British forces stumbled upon dozens of wooden coffins and plastic bags filled with human bones in an abandoned warehouse. Atrocities are suspected and an investigative team is being called in.

GREGORY LYNCH, JR., FATHER OF PFC. JESSICA LYNCH: This has been a long waiting process.

COOPER: By mid afternoon, another kind of mission was underway. The parents of Army Private First Class Jessica Lynch left for Germany to be reunited with their daughter, happy but aware other parents are not as fortunate.

LYNCH: Our hearts are really saddened for her other troop members and the other families.

COOPER: New details emerged today about the Lynch rescue operation.

RENUART: The soldier again said, "Jessica Lynch, we're the United States soldiers and we're here to protect you and take you home." She seemed to understand that. And she -- as he walked over, took his helmet off, she looked up to him and said, "I'm an American soldier, too."

JASON BELLINI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They found this dog again inside what they believe is a Baath Party member's residence.

COOPER: And Jason Bellini, embedded with the 15th Marine Expeditionary Unit, with an exclusive, showing the dog tags of Jessica Lynch found in the southern city of Nasiriya.

As ground forces continued to push in and around Baghdad, the war from the sky heats up as well. Military officials announce around the clock air support over the Iraqi capitol.

MICHAEL MOSLEY, LT. GEN.: The trick is to use, if you have to do this, is to use the smallest munition possible to get the maximum effect, so that you don't create those unnecessary loss of civilian life for property.

COOPER: Is he or isn't he? The debate continues as another videotape surfaced on Iraqi TV of Saddam Hussein meeting with his two sons. What is unclear is when this meeting was taped, and if this is Saddam Hussein himself.

(END VIDEOTAPE) COOPER: Those are the questions. So with coalition troops now in the heart of Baghdad, what is next? Our military analyst, General Wesley Clark, joins me to talk about war plans.

General Clark, thanks for being with us again. Nice to see you. If you are an Iraqi general sitting in a bunker somewhere or in somebody's house, what are you thinking? What are your options?

WESLEY CLARK, GEN., RET., FMR. NATO SUPREME CMDR.: Well, first of all, if you're an Iraqi general, you probably are being told to continue to defend and exhorted to do more.

But your resources are limited. You know that your tanks can't hold their own. You know your air defense, if it turns on its radar, is going to be taken out. You know your artillery's going to be targeted if it fires. And so, you're going to pull your troops back in. You're going to get into buildings. You're going to try to defend key strong points. And you're going to try to exact as much damage on the coalition, and make them destroy as much of Baghdad and kill as many civilians as you can.

COOPER: Hence, yes, those press conferences, those statements, we keep seeing from Iraq's information minister, just trying to -- is basically like trying to get people to keep listening to the band on the Titanic.

CLARK: That's exactly right. I mean, he wants to keep the morale up. He wants to try to keep people doing what they can do. Saddam Hussein may actually believe he can somehow defeat the Americans at this point. I'd be surprised if he does. But he probably has a strategy that by punishing the Americans, he can raise his own prestige in the Arab world, and perhaps give himself a chance to be admitted into another country, supported, and maybe even thinks he can come back underneath the American occupation and for -- cause trouble, and even regain control of the country at some point.

COOPER: We saw this move earlier in the day by the 3rd Infantry Division, I believe it was, taking on believed to be some Iraqi Republican Guards at that barracks. Basically a move into the heart of Baghdad, about a mile away we're told from one of the presidential palaces. Both -- I suppose a military move, but also a symbolic one, sending a message.

CLARK: I think that's exactly right. It was a huge psychological move against the Iraqis. It's also a very important move in reassuring Americans and people abroad that the United States has the means to take this fight inside Baghdad.

COOPER: And does the fight now center on -- I guess it's multi- pronged, but in one sense, the main for us, I would imagine, would be continue to target Iraqi leadership in the hopes that cut off the head, everyone else will give up?

CLARK: I think that's right. But I think that you never have only plan or one objective in mind in an operation like this. So at the same time they're targeting the leadership, the Marines are closing in from the south and other forces are coming in from the west and southeast, and maybe even from the northeast. And they will draw the noose tighter around Baghdad. And then they'll begin to identify where the centers of resistance are. And they'll begin to carve up those specific centers of resistance.

COOPER: In a moment, we're going to talk to Walter Rodgers, who as you well know is with the Army's 3-7 Cavalry. But one of the things he had reported earlier was that he had been hearing intelligence that there was this exodus of Baath Party officials, among others, leaving the city. Is that a concern from a military standpoint? Or is it intentional, sort of letting an escape out?

CLARK: Well, it's actually -- it should be concern both to us, and it should be a concern to Saddam Hussein. For Saddam Hussein, it means he's losing control over the city. The people he should be counting on are deserting him, and fleeing apparently, unless it's part of a plan.

And for us, it should be somewhat of a concern because many of these people are people that have information we need. They may be people who are connected with weapons of mass destruction. And in any event, there are people who will need to be identified because when they return under a new administration, their liable to be troublemakers.

COOPER: Well, General Clark, I mean for all we know, Saddam Hussein is in a burka riding in the back of a pick-up truck, heading for Syria. Is there any -- do you think the U.S. military will attempt to have some sort of checkpoint, where they can check this exodus?

CLARK: I think that that's possible. But on the other hand, there are so many ways out. There was always the probability that if Saddam wanted to escape on the ground, he probably could. And the real catch for Saddam Hussein may be in another country.

COOPER: All right, General Clark, appreciate it. We'll talk to you in a little bit.

We're going to go now to CNN's Walter Rodgers, who is embedded with the Army's 3-7th Cavalry on the outskirts, somewhere on the outskirts of Baghdad.

Walter, what's the latest?

WALTER RODGERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, the feeling we're getting here, especially from the commanding generals in this theater of operations is that the war is just -- it's coming to an end. They're not saying that quite yet, but what they are saying is that they have, and this is a quote from a senior general, we have the Iraqis walking backwards on their heels. The same general went on to urge the troops to -- all on the -- all the troops under his command to keep the pressure on. I think he said just a few more days.

The implication being that the Iraqis have taken quite a pounding around Baghdad. In addition, many of the Baathist Party officials and some of the Republican Guard officers are clearly fleeing the country under the cover civilian convoys, moving generally in the direction of Syria. We don't know what happens, of course, when they get to the border.

This is a very crucial time for soldiers in the field, because if they get this information, they tend to let their guard down. That's a very, very dangerous thing. This is a time when soldiers accidentally discharge their weapons. The officers have to work harder, even as the war winds down or where as the U.S. forces become more and more dominant.

Officers in a unit like the 3rd Squadron of the 7th Cavalry have to work extraordinarily hard to make sure nobody lies and puts a sleeping bag down where they should, and then gets run over, or that no one lets their guard down. And as you could hear, perhaps a few moments ago, there was still outgoing fire here, so that perhaps no Iraqi unit tried to sneak up and get a few final shots off, and try to kill a few Americans before this is all over.

So this is a very sensitive time, even though the generals in theater here are extraordinarily upbeat about the performance of their soldiers in the past two weeks -- Anderson?

COOPER: Walter, you had mentioned this sort of -- the officers you had -- were hearing from were talking about sort of days to get the Iraqis, I guess off their heels and onto their rear ends. What is the mood among the enlisted soldiers you are with? I mean, the guys who are in back of you now in the shot I'm looking at right now seem sort of relaxed. Is there a sense that their job -- their -- they still have a lot more ahead of them? Or is it now this is a little bit more, you know, finite work. And it's going to be the work of Special Forces or someone else?

RODGERS: This particular unit does not have new orders. We're in a position somewhat to the flank. Having said that, you can feel a sort of lightning up on the part of the soldiers. They sense that the -- when they go into combat, when we write into the -- what were Iraqi ambushes, those shootouts which would last two hours, fire fights that would last two hours, now are only lasting 20 minutes or so, maybe half an hour.

So you can feel the soldiers loosening up a little. And as I say, that's a particularly dangerous time for an Army unit. The reason being there still are hostile forces out there, not in the numbers, perhaps, not in the masses that we have seen before, but they still try to sneak up on you. And they still try to kill you. So again, the vigilance level has to be maintained -- Anderson?

COOPER: Walter, I remember in the early days, I think in the first 24 hours or so of this war, I remember you, as you were charging through the Iraqi desert with this unit, who you are with, you kept saying that all of these troops, all of the members of the 7th know that their home is through Baghdad.

They've not reached Baghdad. Is there a sense on their behalf that this thing is almost over, that they can get a sense of home being close?

RODGERS: Well, of course that's true. What I said at the time and as I say, we have been all around the Western side of Baghdad, on patrols, reconnaissance, there will be more of that.

The problem is, of course, that units like the 4th Infantry Division are still moving up. And it would be units like the 4th Infantry Division still in Kuwait who have to fill in the ranks of the soldiers here, the 3rd Infantry Division. And again, as much as these soldiers would like to say they're going home, they can't say that yet because they have what's called SASO (ph) duty, which is security duty to man checkpoints, to try to order -- establish a degree of stability here. And there are, you know, there's just a mopping up operation which goes on.

There are still hostile Iraqi forces out there, still trying to kill U.S. soldiers. They can't look to going home yet. First place, they simply don't have orders, but until follow-on units come on, like the 4th Infantry Division, and they're way in the rear still to the best of my knowledge, until these units are relieved, they can't really let themselves think that much about going home -- Anderson?

COOPER: All right, Walter Rodgers, appreciate it. We'll check in with you in a little while.

The U.S. Special Forces have also joined up with Kurdish fighters in northern Iraq. And together, they are moving on Iraqi military positions. Our Brent Sadler is in northern Iraq and he joins us -- Brent?

BRENT SADLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We've had a full day of airstrike activity against many positions along the northern front, but specifically the southeastern corner, not far from the Iranian border. A day when I've seen very close coordination and cooperation between Iraqi forces on the ground, and a special force unit of forward air controllers.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SADLER (voice-over): The beginning of a mission to locate and destroy Saddam Hussein's forces in northern Iraq. Lightly armed, but confident Iraqi Kurds combine their raw battlefield skills with high tech American air power, power that will soon be used by these U.S. Special Forces, preparing the ground for a carefully calculated kill.

The Kurds and their American allies are gunning for the Iraqi regime in any way they can. Baghdad is 100 miles south of here. This route, blocked by Iraqi army soldiers manning this ridge line. The Iraqi Kurds have been biding their time here and waiting the U.S. military's next move.

Now helping them figure out the lay of the land.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is soldier Saddam Hussein.

SADLER: This Kurdish fighter says he knows the terrain like the back of his hand and maps out positions for his American allies with a small mosaic of stones.

(on camera): The sun is setting. There are reports of Iraqi tank movements and U.S. strike aircraft will be operating in this vicinity shortly. If Special Forces can help locate targets and coordinate with close air support, they'll be bombing runs.

(voice-over): These forward air controllers bristle with antennas. They call in America's birds of prey with calm and precision. And the unmistakable trail of a B-52 bomber, armed and ready to strike. The circling war planes hunting their quarry.

But ground and air find it difficult to get a fix on camouflage covered targets.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, it's just so hazy right now, too.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just -- I tell you what, that one right there that I'm looking at looks like that's a net over top of that damn thing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Patience is a virtue sometimes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The time has come but the birds have them do a fly over and see what they think.

SADLER: The first birds draw a blank, but others are on the way.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: About right now, about 15 minutes. And if that one don't come, another one's coming and a B-52s on top.

SADLER: And this time, their targets are confirmed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're cleared hot. Stand by.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Impact, 25 seconds.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 25 seconds.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right, take the right one right there, boom. Exactly.

SADLER: An F-15 releases a 500 pound bomb on demand.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

SADLER: It's close to the target, but not close enough. It is the end of the day, but the attacks have just begun.

The Iraqi lines appear to fire back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, he saw flashes behind the mountain. You might want to get down!

SADLER: Orders are obeyed by one and all until more bombs fall. (on camera): That flash is the detonation of seven, 500 pound bombs dropped from a high altitude B-52 bomber. That's what they sound like.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nice, nice. That looks good. That looks like it took out three and four again.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, shift it down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: East, four, five degrees.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I shifted down, right down that line. So this is our next target and that target.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who is target 1-F?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, yes, that would look good on one.

SADLER (voice-over): And another Iraqi military target goes up in flames.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SADLER: Well, that was the action overnight in this sector of the northern front, just after sunrise here. The area is quiet, but you can count on those forward air controllers getting back into those locations, spotting more targets later this day. Back to you, Anderson.

COOPER: All right, Brent Sadler in northern Iraq. We'll check in with you in a little while.

There is a lot going on all over Iraq. It is certainly not quiet in Baghdad. And we now -- we go to Nic Robertson, who's on the Jordanian-Iraqi border monitoring the situation in Baghdad.

Nic, a busy day?

ROBERTSON: A busy day and a busy night, Anderson. Bombing already heard this morning in the daylight hours in Baghdad. Overnight, decimations had been heard out towards the airport on the southwest of the city where coalition forces are now located. We had also seen the latest reaction, if you will, from Iraqi authorities. President Saddam Hussein and his two sons appearing on Iraqi television, very much a message of defiance coming from the Iraqi leadership. And that's what we've heard from them the day before calling on Iraqi citizens to fight back at coalition forces, saying that the coalition was facing defeat.

And in some ways, some other images of the day as well reflecting that sentiment. Pictures of Iraqi citizens dancing on what appears to be a destroyed coalition tank in the streets of Baghdad. However, it was a very different picture for many of the Iraqis in the capitol. They saw coalition forces driving around the southwest of Baghdad, the southeast of the city. They also say they believe there was a coalition checkpoint on the northern outskirts of the capitol. These -- all these impressions, quite mixed impressions of the city, but one thing for sure. Some people of Baghdad deciding it's too unsafe to live in the city. They have taken off and left. We've heard reports of numbers of people driving out of the city yesterday.

Also, Iraqi forces reinforcing military positions quite close to the airport on the southwest of Baghdad. We've seen Howitzers and heard about tanks, T-72 tanks being moved into position in civilian areas, as civilians moved out of those areas and Iraqi Republican Guard and Fedayeen forces taking up positions that now appear to be frontline positions facing off against the coalition in the airport there -- Anderson?

COOPER: Nic, you're on the border. Over the last couple days, we've had heard many stories about Iraqi nationals in Jordan, from elsewhere trying to go through Jordan into Iraq. A lot of them saying they were going to fight. Are those buses still going?

ROBERTSON: We haven't seen any buses in the last two days. It doesn't mean that people haven't been going. A lot of people have been going through Syria as well, to get into Iraq. We do know Iraqi authorities have been saying that some 6,000 Arab volunteers over and above the number of returning Iraqis, have come back to Baghdad to fight. We did some of them before we left Baghdad, before we were forced out by the Iraqi government two weeks ago. And I have since then talked to people in Baghdad who tell me that more of those volunteer fighters have arrived.

We don't know their level of training. We don't know exactly how the Iraqi authorities have deployed them, but we do understand a number of them are still in Baghdad, Anderson.

COOPER: If you -- and I don't know how extensive you're able to talk to people in Baghdad, but what sense are you getting about -- I mean if you listen to the Iraq's -- Iraqi information minister, you know, U.S. and coalition troops were far away from Baghdad. They weren't even anywhere in the region. And then all of a sudden, they show up driving through, you know, part of downtown. Is there a sense of the people you talk to of shock of surprise or did they expect this?

ROBERTSON: I think there's an element of surprise. Certainly the sources that we talked to say that when this first happened, people were surprised by it, that they didn't expect to see them in so many locations. They're sort of aware the coalition was approaching the city from the southwest and the southeast, but they were very surprised to find checkpoints springing up in the north of the city. And I think that surprised also from what we understand from the people we talked to in Baghdad, playing out because as soon as the coalition forces arrived close to the city, people decided to leave. They could have left sometime before, but that perhaps they weren't expecting the coalition forces to arrive quite so quickly.

But it is very difficult to get very good and broad spectrum independent analysis of what people in Baghdad are thinking. We have a couple of sources we can talk to, who are located in the center of the city. Outside of that, it's very difficult to pick up that broad picture, Anderson.

COOPER: All right, Nic Robertson on the Jordanian-Iraqi border. Thanks very much. We'll check in with you in a little while.

When we come back, we're going to cover a couple things. You've heard Brent Sadler talking about U.S. Special Forces in northern Iraq. Well, they're not just in northern Iraq, they are no doubt on the ground in Baghdad. We're going to talk to our security analyst, J. Kelly McCann for all things special forces.

And we're going to look at the fact of blaze -- that blazing a trail to Baghdad, you find some surprising things along the way. We will have that story in a moment.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASON BELLINI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm standing in front of Saddam Hospital. Saddam Hospital is where Jessica Lynch, the American POW, was rescued by U.S. Special Forces just a few days ago. Today, the Marines were embedded with the 15th Marine Expeditionary Unit. They recovered her dog tags. They recovered these tags...

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Well, the U.S. Special Forces are of course playing a highly important, but understandably very low profile role in the war in Iraq. When we hear about their exploits, they are usually spectacular, like the rescue of Jessica Lynch. Security expert Kelly McCann joins me now to take a look at what the Special Forces can and will do.

Let's talk about -- we saw the Brent Sadler report about what they're doing in northern Iraq, where basically a handful of Special Forces officers are taking on with the help of the Peshmarter (ph), taking on huge numbers of Iraqis.

KELLY MCCANN, SECURITYEXPERT: Absolutely. And that is their most conventional special role similar to what we saw them do in Afghanistan, where they basically used themselves as a force multiplier with the Northern Alliance, the same is true. But the sooner that they can get the indigenous personnel involved in their own fight, and you know, certainly start having some successes, the better.

COOPER: Right. Let's talk about Baghdad. You know, and we're not giving any, in a way all this stuff is basically, you know, public source stuff. But what do you think Special Forces' role is going to be in Baghdad, if it's -- maybe is already?

MCCANN: Oh, I think, you know, we've some examples, limited strike raids, you know, like we saw with Jessica Lynch, where they had to get the intel and then quickly scramble, you know, the force, the raid force, that would get together to do that, the Rangers as a security element, the Seals as a direct action assault unit. I think...

COOPER: Then why have that mixed unit? Was that just for everyone who wanted a piece of it? Or was -- did that make operational sense?

MCCANN: It makes operational sense because of the core competencies of each of the groups. I mean, the Seals have a -- more of a focus on surgical kinds of -- if you would think of it as a jeweler's mallet and a sledgehammer. The Rangers can take on very tough and arduous security positions and do close quarter battle. The Seals have a little bit more esoteric mission in that regard, and have some other esoteric skills, such as advanced breaching skills, things like that, that they can move to an objective faster.

COOPER: There had been talk really in the early days of this operation that there were already Special Forces units or unit on the ground in Baghdad. You know, there was that first strike, attempting to decapitate the leadership. People were saying that there were assets on the ground actually calling in the information.

That would seem to expand as, I mean, now that coalition forces control the airport, that would seem to be a base of operations that you could launch the operations from?

MCCANN: Oh, absolutely. And still, you want to maintain that presence. They're going to work partisans. They're going to actually do reconnaissance and feed that back to the scouting units that would then take it from there, and the conventional units.

They'll do threat assessments. The strike that was supposedly against Chemical Ali, someone had to put eyes and ears on that target and do the siting for that. Those kinds of missions, I think, will continue to accelerate as the force of the United States and the capability accelerates and the Iraqis' degrades.

COOPER: And in terms of what they can do on the ground in Baghdad, listening in on communications, trying to -- I guess their role would be trying to -- the most important would be trying to identify where the leadership is and try to take them out?

MCCANN: Well, a good example, you know, today, the ministry of information, we had Mr. Sahaf out there with his back to a window. I mean, I'm sure that there might have been a couple of people looking through small metal tubes at him as he had his broadcast or would have liked to. It didn't make much military sense for him to do that.

I think that was a desperate effort for him to kind of say look in the back of me, you know, Baghdad is 100 percent -- might have been a contrivance, too.

COOPER: Right.

MCCANN: But also, if you remember last week, there were explosions that were unaccounted for. They weren't artillery. They weren't aerial bombardments. There's a lot of missions like that with a lot of people in motion.

COOPER: Right. All right, the -- just unbelievably fascinating to watch. I think we're going to talk to you a little bit later on. Kelly McCann.

We're going to go right now to the White House, correspondent Suzanne Malveaux for a recap of President Bush's day and a preview of his upcoming summit with British Prime Minister Tony Blair.

Suzanne?

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORREPSPONDENT: Well, Anderson, President Bush in his radio address called Saddam's government "a dying regime." He also vowed that we will not stop until Iraq is free, but the White House also tempered its optimism a bit, recognizing the reality as those allied forces go deep into central Baghdad. There's the possibility of nasty battles ahead.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX (voice-over): During his weekend at Camp David, President Bush reached out to a friend and foe of the Iraqi war, Spain's Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar, and Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Their focus was on the future, a post-Saddam Iraq. Mr. Bush in his weekly radio address.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: By defending our own security, we're ridding the people of Iraq from one of the cruelest regimes on earth.

MALVEAUX: The White House envisions replacing that regime immediately after the conflict, with a military force commanded by General Tommy Franks and a U.S. civilian administration headed by Retired General Jay Garner.

The U.S. would help create an interim Iraqi authority. But the plan is raising questions and even concerns from world leaders that without international input, it is doomed to fail.

KEN POLLACK, CNN ANALYST: The simple fact of the matter is that no one in the United States knows who the Iraqi people want to lead them. And for the United States to simply choose people, whether they're from the inside or from the outside could be very problematic in establishing a -- even a transitional authority with some legitimacy in the eyes of Iraqis.

MALVEAUX: British Prime Minister Tony Blair and many European leaders believe that legitimacy will come if the United Nations endorses the new Iraqi regime. Mr. Bush and Mr. Blair will meet this Monday and Tuesday in Belfast, Ireland to debate the U.N.'s role.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX: Now Mr. Bush and Mr. Blair will also meet with the Irish Prime Minister, as well as leaders from three political parties of northern Ireland, to try to jumpstart this power sharing arrangement between the Catholics and the Protestants. This would really serve as a strong symbol, possibly peace in the Middle East, as well as Iraq -- Anderson?

COOPER: All right, Suzanne Malveaux at the White House. Thanks very much.

We're going to take a short break. When we come back, our coverage continues. We'll have all the latest news that's happening at this hour. We're also going to take a look at the latest tape from -- reported to be of Saddam Hussein and his sons. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

COOPER: Iraqi TV again today broadcast a tape of Saddam Hussein with his sons, Uday and Qusay. Not known whether the tape was shot, was certainly not white balanced very well, or for that matter, if Saddam Hussein is still alive. What is known is that people in the western part of Baghdad had no way to see the pictures since they are still without power.

Meanwhile, coalition forces are destroying Saddam Hussein's many images on their march on Baghdad. CNN analyst Ken Pollack joins us from Washington with his perspective on...

KENNETH POLLACK, CNN ANALYST: Oh, you're kidding, right?

COOPER: ...Saddam's sighting. Ken, you've seen the tape. What did you think?

POLLACK: Who knows, Anderson? I mean, as you pointed out, we don't know when it was made. It may or may not be since the war started. It may or may not tell us anything about Saddam Hussein.

But it is part of a pattern that we've seen from day one, with the Iraqis trying to put these videos out to say Saddam is still alive. He is still in power. And what's more, what's striking about every single one of these tapes is how relaxed and reassured Saddam is. And I think is all part of the pattern, trying to show Iraqis, trying to show Arabs outside of Iraq, trying to show the world that Saddam is non plussed by the entire situation. He's confident that he can win. He believes that he is winning. And he's confident that he will win in the end.

COOPER: Well, you bring up an interesting point. Who is the audience for this thing? I mean, if a good deal of Baghdad's without power, they can't even see it. And it's something you see on satellite, Iraqi TV, is this more for the international audience, more for some sort of message of maybe hopefully someday possibly getting some sort of diplomatic, last minute diplomatic solution to save him?

POLLACK: Yes, I think it's for all of those different audiences, Anderson. I mean, I don't think that the Iraqis are really trying to figure out which audience they ought to be tailoring this message to. I think that they are broadcasting it to all of their supporters or potential supporters, whether inside Iraq or outside.

For the people inside of Iraq, they're trying to convince Saddam's loyalists the old man is still here. He's still in control. He's still in the fight. Therefore, you should keep fighting. For the rest of the Iraqi people, they're trying to say Saddam is still fully in control. And therefore, you should remain very, very nervous and very fearful of him.

Don't join the Americans. But there is also this effort to bring international pressure to bear on the United States and the United Kingdom to end the war and to convince Iraq's supporters outside of Iraq, and of course the Iraqis believe that they have tremendous international support beyond Iraq, that there is still hope to save Saddam's regime, and to stop the war. And that therefore, they should do everything they can, whether it's attacking U.S. interests or simply bringing international pressure to bear.

COOPER: All right, I -- you know, looking at the tape, I mean, Saddam Hussein might be laughing and looked relaxed. Uday and Qusay don't look too happy, I got to tell you. I don't know them personally, but they look pretty glum in that tape to me.

Ken Pollack, appreciate you joining us. Good to talk to you.

We're going to go now to Dr. Sanjay Gupta, who is south of Baghdad with the Marines known as the Devil Docs. Dr. Gupta, what's the latest?

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Anderson. Yes, it has been extremely busy, as you might imagine, just as much fighting there has been going on north of here. The consequences of that fighting, the casualties, the injuries, a lot of that being seen right here. Some numbers, 108 patients over less than 48 hours.

Hence right to me are operating room tents. Operating room tents in the desert. 25 operations in that same period of time. Anderson, they don't do any elective surgery here. It's all life saving operations. These operations are done on people who if they didn't have the operations, they would die. And that's why they do it here this far forward in the desert.

Behind me, Anderson, a couple of trucks. And I don't know if you can see even behind that, behind the Red Cross trucks, a very long convoy. This is part of a convoy that's going to help take this particular surgical unit even further north. This surgical unit is designed to be mobile. Why? So they can move with the troops. And as the troops are moving further north, so is this medical unit.

They're prepared for just about anything. They're seeing all kinds of injuries. But I will tell you this, the caliber of injuries, the significance of these injuries has definitely increased over the last several days. Seeing a lot more gunshot wounds to the head, a lot more wounds to the chest and abdomen. They're also seeing some emotionally difficult situations, as physically challenging as it is for the doctors, it can be emotionally challenging as well.

A six year child, Anderson, was brought in yesterday. Significant -- yesterday our time. Significant shrapnel wounds to the face. A very difficult thing to look at for all the doctors. A lot of these veteran doctors here have been practicing medicine for so many years told me afterwards one of the hardest things they've ever had to see.

This is what it's like. They don't avert their gaze. They have to look. They have to treat. This is what they do. And they will be moving further north. Mark Biello and my photographer will be moving with them, and will continue to post you on their developments. Anderson, back to you.

COOPER: Sanjay, you know, often I've heard soldiers and Marines talk about that golden hour, the hour in which between the -- a wound is received and they -- the soldier has to get medical attention. Do you have a sense of how long it takes from the time a soldier's injured? I mean, I assume it differs, but how long it takes from the time a soldier's injured or a Marine is injured on the battlefield to the time they get to the Devil Docs?

GUPTA: Yes, very good question, Anderson. And basically, it's that golden hour on which all of this is predicated. It is less than an hour to get here. And that is the goal. That's exactly what they're trying to do. Listen, there were some valuable lessons learned from wars past. Vietnam really was the gold standard. You had a very compressed battlefield. In order to get a patient from the frontlines to rear line treatment did not take very long.

During the Gulf War, a lot of things changed. The battlefield's very spread out now, moving very quickly. Hard to get patients from the frontline to definitive treatment. So the simple yet brilliant concept of these mobile surgical units is listen, if you can't get the patient all the way back to care at the rear line, let's bring the definitive care or more definitive care to the patient. And that's why these mobile units move forward, bringing patients from the frontline here takes less than an hour. That's exactly the goal. And the reason it's the goal is because if you can get patients treated within that hour, it makes all the difference in terms of their overall survival.

And they're doing a good job of it, Anderson.

COOPER: All right, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, it certainly looks that way. Thanks for joining us. We'll talk to you again shortly.

Just so you, the viewer, know this is around the time of day, because of the time change with Iraq, where we start to get a lot of our embedded reporters checking in with us. And that's why we bring them to you as soon as we can get them, because often we do not know how long we will get them for. We have a very short window. So that is why we jumped from one area off into another.

I'm just told we made contact with Ron Martz. He's an embedded correspondent from "Atlanta Journal Constitution." He apparently was with a combat patrol in central Baghdad on Sunday.

Ron, what can you tell us about the operation you went out on?

RON MARTZ, "ATLANTA JOURNAL CONSTITUTION": Well, the patrol left about first light on Saturday morning from a few miles south of downtown Baghdad. The day before this particular task force that I am embedded with, it's task force 164 of the 3rd Infantry Division, they had cleared highway 8 for several miles south of the intersection with highway 1 to make sure that reinforcements from the Medina Division could not move north.

Then on Saturday, they moved into central Baghdad with the entire task force of about 700 plus soldiers, tanks, Bradley fighting vehicles, other armored vehicles. There was a lot of contact, a lot of fire in both directions. There were a number of fighting positions that had been dug alongside the road, one and two men fox holes, bunkers, various fighting positions. And they took a lot of rocket propelled grenades, a lot of incoming fire, a lot of outgoing fire. They saw a number of destroyed artillery pieces, and aircraft pieces, destroyed bumpers.

The unit that I was with, Charley Company of Task Force 164, they lost a tank. The tank got hit in the fuel cell by an anti tank rocket. And the crew and other soldiers spent about 15 minutes or so under fire, trying to save the tank, save the weapon, save sensitive equipment and documents. And then, as moved on, the armored personnel carrier in which I was riding, we had two soldiers hit almost simultaneously. And we were standing right next to me. And then, it took -- they told me it only took about 15 minutes to get to the spot where they could get some medical evacuation helicopters in there. It seemed more like 15 hours at the time, though, that probably a medic was in there trying to treat the soldiers.

I was trying to help as best I could. Fortunately, the wounds were not too serious. They were -- well, I say not too serious. They'll survive, but they were pretty shot up.

COOPER: How long did this operation go on for, Ron?

MARTZ: It went on for several hours. I know it started about first light, a little after 5:00 a.m. on Saturday. They finally linked up with forces at the airports. Probably about three to four hours later.

The route that they took was essentially highway 8, which leads into Baghdad from the south and curves around to the west, just before it hits the Tigress River and then highway 8 continues on to the airport.

I lost contact with exactly where we were, once the two soldiers in my APC were hit, because I was down in there with them. And so, I'm not sure exactly where we were at any particular time. All I know is that when we -- when the APC finally stopped and we got the soldiers out, got them on Medivac helicopters, that we were at the airport. So the airport yesterday, I guess it was about 10:30 our time, which would have been about 2:30 a.m. Saturday your time, airport was secure at that point. They seemed to have cleared that particularly highway, and opened up a main supply route, which they need desperately at this point. They need the airport also, because they're running short of water. They're running short of parts for tanks and other vehicles. And it's becoming a bit of a critical issue at this point.

COOPER: All right, Ron Martz with the "The Atlanta Journal Constitution." I appreciate you calling in. A harrowing 24 hours it has been for you and the men in the Charley Company Task Force 164 of the 3rd Infantry. Thanks for telling us their story.

We're going to go now with -- to Chris Plante, who's at the Pentagon for the latest on overview of the battle for Baghdad in Operation Iraqi Freedom.

Chris...

CHRIS PLANTE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Anderson. That's right, nobody was more surprised than the people of Baghdad when the 3rd Infantry Division rolled in from the south and moved through the south and western portion of the city, just after dawn, engaging Republican Guard and Special Republican Guard Units.

There was a good deal of heavy combat throughout the south and western part of the city. We're hearing from Walt Rodgers that his unit alone, the 7th Cavalry, was responsible for destroying between 30 and 35 Iraqi tanks.

More of that is certainly to come, as the Marine Corp's first expeditionary force comes in from the south and eastern part of the city. They are expected to also make forays into Baghdad proper, and take on forces as they find them. And air power will also be coming into the equation very soon, as Air Force jets and Navy jets flying from aircraft carriers are expected to come in and provide close air support in the urban environment for these ground forces, as they take on Iraqi forces throughout the city.

Their targets will be mortars, anti aircraft artillery, various other artillery pieces throughout the city. And at the briefing in Doha this morning, General Renuart, who's been on the defensive for the last week because people kept saying that the plan was taking too long, actually took a moment out to gloat.

VICTOR RENUART JR., MAJ. GEN., U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: The progress could be characterized as nothing short of superb. A lot was made about we were out there for three or four days, as you know bad weather had challenged us a bit. A lot of it was made of bringing the supply lines along.

I think what we've shown is that the plan was very smoothly executed, that logistics support, humanitarian assistance has flowed in behind the combat troops in a rate that allowed the momentum of the fight to be carried to the Iraqis in a steady fashion with great results.

PLANTE: And Anderson, in the meantime we're hearing that a number of Iraqi officials, senior officials from the Baath Party and from the Republican Guard are fleeing the city, apparently towards Syria and bringing with them boxes full of cash -- Anderson?

COOPER: An interesting development that is. Chris Plante at the Pentagon, thanks. We'll check in with you in a little while.

The prospect of urban combat, of course, dredges up some pretty grim memories of Mogadishu, Somalia. When we come back, we'll talk to an Army ranger who was there when the Blackhawk went down. We'll get his perspective on what U.S. troops may face in Baghdad. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: There was a very disturbing discovery in Nasiriya today, as U.S. Marines searched for weapons in the home of a suspected Baath Party member. Our Jason Bellini has more on that and a look at how Iraqi citizens are reacting to U.S. troops in Nasiriya.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASON BELLINI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm standing in front of Saddam Hospital. Saddam Hospital is where Jessica Lynch, the American POW, was rescued by U.S. Special Forces just a few days ago. Today, the Marines were embedded with the 15th Marine Expeditionary Unit. They recovered her dog tags. They recovered these tags from what they believe is the residence of a Baath Party member. They found it in this residence along the river, as they were looking for arms, various types of munitions that they also recovered in that same position.

As the Marines make these discoveries, and they've made quite a number of these armed cache discoveries. In fact they say it slowed them down from doing the rest of the work that they want to do, because there's so much of these arms here for them to deal with.

But as they do that, they're operating in a very changed climate and a changing climate. People here in some quarters are giving them quite a reception. We had an opportunity earlier to speak with some Iraqis who were thrilled by their presence in the city.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No like.

BELLINI: No like Saddam?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No like Saddam.

BELLINI: Do you like Bush?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Maybe. I likes Bush.

BELLINI: What's that, Bush, you like Bush?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Maybe. BELLINI: Marines, U.S. Marines?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good, good.

BELLINI: U.S. Marines, good.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good, yes. Good, good.

BELLINI: Bush is good?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good. Maybe George Bush. George Bush.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, yes, USA! Yes, yes, USA!

BELLINI: In juxtaposition to those Iraqis that you just saw, earlier we spoke with some Iraqis who are inside Saddam Hospital. There's some images we're showing you here of Iraqis who were injured in aerial bombardments. We spoke with Juan, a 20 year old who said he was eating cereal in the kitchen of his home when he heard helicopters overhead. Then a loud explosion. His father was killed in the blast. And he's been in the hospital and will likely be in this hospital for a -- quite a long time with his injuries.

Some very tragic injuries witnessed inside of that hospital, and it's a very tragic stories, tragedy that's come with this war. I'm Jason Bellini, CNN, Nasiriya, Iraq.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: We're going to go now to CNN's Ed Lavandera at Fort Bliss, Texas. It is the home of the Army's 507th Maintenance Company, which got caught in a deadly ambush March 23rd. That of course the unit that Jessica Lynch belonged to -- Ed?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Anderson. Well here, over the course of the last two weeks, the military community here at Fort Bliss, Texas and in El Paso as well have been keeping close tabs as to what happened with the 15 soldiers from the 507th Maintenance Company based here at Fort Bliss.

Now we knew that five of them are being held as prisoners of war. And we knew -- we've known for some time that two of them were found dead, but the fate of the other eight was unknown until Wednesday, when Jessica Lynch was found alive. But then that gave a lot of hope to many families that perhaps the news of the other seven of other soldiers missing in action might also turn out to be as positive and cheerful as Jessica Lynch's outcome turned out to be, but that has not turned out to be the case. Many family members saying that they were told yesterday by the Army that these other seven soldiers that have been missing in action were found dead near the hospital where Jessica Lynch was found.

You might imagine that this has been a very depressing day here at Fort Bliss. Flags have been flying at half staff. There have been signs of support that have been popping up around the base. And we're also told that military officials are already planning a memorial service for these soldiers of the 507th Maintenance Company. That will happen next Friday here on the base. Exact time and location hasn't been announced publicly yet, but officials here say that that will probably be open to the public as well.

There's also church services, regularly scheduled church services here scheduled for tomorrow, which will take on a more poignant meaning tomorrow morning as well, as the -- many of the messages that will be delivered, we're told, will focus on the fate of this -- soldiers -- fellow soldiers here from Fort Bliss as well.

And one family in particular here from El Paso, the youngest member of this 507th Maintenance Company, Private Ruben Estrella Soto, who's from El Paso. His family has been getting the support of other family members here. They have come by Soto's house to offer support to his family members. And we're told by one of his cousins that that private was just looking forward to coming home from his mission in Iraq. He had big plans. He said when he got back, he had plans to get married.

HECTOR FEGORA PEREZ, PVT. ESTRELLA SOTO'S COUSIN: He was 18 years old. He was barely graduated from Desert View here High School. And you know, he was really young guy. You know, to die, he was - he had great hopes for his life. He -- I talked to him before he left to the war, you know, and he wanted to get married when he came back from war.

LAVANDERA: Now Anderson, perhaps some of these family members can find some solace in the fact the story behind the recovery of their bodies, we're told by officials at Central Command in Qatar, that the Special Forces soldiers that went into rescue Jessica Lynch as soon as they had found out that the bodies of the other soldiers were nearby, we were told that they went into their -- they were buried in graves near the hospital, that they went in with their bare hands and removed the bodies so that they could be taken out in the same mission that rescued Jessica Lynch, a testament they say to what all of these soldiers will do to bring back their fellow soldiers back home safely -- Anderson?

COOPER: Yes, so many, so young. Thanks, Ed Lavandera at Fort Bliss, Texas. Thanks very much.

Coming up in just a few minutes right after the break, you might remember the most intense urban ground fighting since World War II happened not in Iraq, but in Mogadishu in Somalia in 1993 in August to be exact. It was, of course, made into the book and the movie, "Blackhawk Down." When we come back, we're going to talk to one of the men who took part in that operation.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Well British forces in Basra had made the dismantling of the Baath Party a prime objective. British reporter Juliet Bremner, embedded with the Desert Rats, that legendary unit, reports now in a roundup of party members.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) JULIET BREMNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Dominating the city gates to Basra, Saddam Hussein and his henchmen still claim to control this southern port. But the British want to send a powerful symbolic message. Soldiers are here to tear down the regime and all it stands for.

By the time they leave Iraq, they're determined Saddam and his Baath Party will have bitten the dust. The approach can seem frustratingly slow, but day by day, the Desert Rats are exerting more control. Checkpoints meant to filter out Iraqi hard-liners.

(on camera): They're well within striking distance of the mortars and rockets of the Fedayeen militia, but they're prepared to take that risk to try and persuade the people of Basra that they won't desert them, that they'll stick with this however messy it gets.

(voice-over): Drastic action is needed to convince a jubilant population. We watched a night-time raid on the homes of Baath Party officials and Fedayeen militia. These are men singled out by locals, and believed by Army intelligence to be behind much of the brutality and corruption.

Most are not accused of specific crimes, but suspected of being part of the state sponsored climate of fear.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on, get up!

BREMNER: The party's influence extends to every corner of Iraqi society. In two small communities, we witnessed more than 70 people being rounded up. Some are clearly terrified of what lies ahead, uncertain of their fate, overcome by nerves.

But as it ended, there was no British apology for the scale of the operation.

PAUL NANSON, MAJ., 1st FUSILIERS: We came in firm. We came in third. There was no short spite. We gave a good warning before we came in. We've been playing warnings for the people to stay in their houses. And we've only lifted those people who we got very good intelligence on.

BREMNER: This is not a tactic that can be regularly repeated. All the British risk being accused of installing their own rule of terror. Despite the discomfort of a few, there's a conviction that this is a night's work that will benefit the majority.

Juliet Bremner in Basra.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

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Defenders>


Aired April 5, 2003 - 22:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: And what a day it has been. There have been some major events during the past 24 hours. Here's a look at the key developments today.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER (voice-over): If there was any question that U.S. led forces had entered Baghdad, here was the proof. On day 18 of the war, coalition troops advanced from several directions to challenge the might of Saddam Hussein's defenders, who military leaders say have been pushed back deeper into Iraq's capitol.

The U.S. Army said its 3rd Infantry Division fought Iraqi Republican Guard troops at a Republican Guard barracks in southwest Baghdad. Iraq's information minister Mohammed Saeed Al-Sahaf denied these reports, insisting the coalition was further from Baghdad than what is being reported.

MOHAMMED AL-SAHAF: (through translator) These pictures have nothing to do with what's happened last evening or today. We kicked them out. We pulverized them.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They have seen them on the southwest of the city. They have seen them on the southeast of the city. Indeed...

COOPER: However, sources tell CNN's Nic Robertson U.S. soldiers were as close to the city's center as Saddam Bridge, next to Baghdad University, about a mile from one of Saddam Hussein's presidential palaces.

VICTOR RENUART, MAJ. GEN., U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: Good afternoon everybody.

COOPER: At the Central Command briefing Saturday, Major General Victor Renuart, Junior said there is still a long way to go.

RENUART: But this fight is far from over. As we have said, we've been able to move into the area of Baghdad city. As you look at the map of Iraq, you'll note that there are many other parts of the country where we have not yet taken control of enemy forces in that region. And so the fight will continue. The fight is far from finished in Baghdad.

COOPER: Evidence of that to the north, as CNN's Brent Sadler witnessed U.S. Special Forces strike bunker targets along the northern front. BRENT SADLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It was absolutely extraordinary to see the precision of these air strikes against one ridge occupied by Iraqi troops with machine guns.

COOPER: And in the south, on the outskirts of Basra, Iraq's second largest city, Mike Boettcher, embedded with Special Forces, came under Iraqi mortar fire, while coalition forces established a military checkpoint.

Also in Basra, a grim discovery. British forces stumbled upon dozens of wooden coffins and plastic bags filled with human bones in an abandoned warehouse. Atrocities are suspected and an investigative team is being called in.

GREGORY LYNCH, JR., FATHER OF PFC. JESSICA LYNCH: This has been a long waiting process.

COOPER: By mid afternoon, another kind of mission was underway. The parents of Army Private First Class Jessica Lynch left for Germany to be reunited with their daughter, happy but aware other parents are not as fortunate.

LYNCH: Our hearts are really saddened for her other troop members and the other families.

COOPER: New details emerged today about the Lynch rescue operation.

RENUART: The soldier again said, "Jessica Lynch, we're the United States soldiers and we're here to protect you and take you home." She seemed to understand that. And she -- as he walked over, took his helmet off, she looked up to him and said, "I'm an American soldier, too."

JASON BELLINI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They found this dog again inside what they believe is a Baath Party member's residence.

COOPER: And Jason Bellini, embedded with the 15th Marine Expeditionary Unit, with an exclusive, showing the dog tags of Jessica Lynch found in the southern city of Nasiriya.

As ground forces continued to push in and around Baghdad, the war from the sky heats up as well. Military officials announce around the clock air support over the Iraqi capitol.

MICHAEL MOSLEY, LT. GEN.: The trick is to use, if you have to do this, is to use the smallest munition possible to get the maximum effect, so that you don't create those unnecessary loss of civilian life for property.

COOPER: Is he or isn't he? The debate continues as another videotape surfaced on Iraqi TV of Saddam Hussein meeting with his two sons. What is unclear is when this meeting was taped, and if this is Saddam Hussein himself.

(END VIDEOTAPE) COOPER: Those are the questions. So with coalition troops now in the heart of Baghdad, what is next? Our military analyst, General Wesley Clark, joins me to talk about war plans.

General Clark, thanks for being with us again. Nice to see you. If you are an Iraqi general sitting in a bunker somewhere or in somebody's house, what are you thinking? What are your options?

WESLEY CLARK, GEN., RET., FMR. NATO SUPREME CMDR.: Well, first of all, if you're an Iraqi general, you probably are being told to continue to defend and exhorted to do more.

But your resources are limited. You know that your tanks can't hold their own. You know your air defense, if it turns on its radar, is going to be taken out. You know your artillery's going to be targeted if it fires. And so, you're going to pull your troops back in. You're going to get into buildings. You're going to try to defend key strong points. And you're going to try to exact as much damage on the coalition, and make them destroy as much of Baghdad and kill as many civilians as you can.

COOPER: Hence, yes, those press conferences, those statements, we keep seeing from Iraq's information minister, just trying to -- is basically like trying to get people to keep listening to the band on the Titanic.

CLARK: That's exactly right. I mean, he wants to keep the morale up. He wants to try to keep people doing what they can do. Saddam Hussein may actually believe he can somehow defeat the Americans at this point. I'd be surprised if he does. But he probably has a strategy that by punishing the Americans, he can raise his own prestige in the Arab world, and perhaps give himself a chance to be admitted into another country, supported, and maybe even thinks he can come back underneath the American occupation and for -- cause trouble, and even regain control of the country at some point.

COOPER: We saw this move earlier in the day by the 3rd Infantry Division, I believe it was, taking on believed to be some Iraqi Republican Guards at that barracks. Basically a move into the heart of Baghdad, about a mile away we're told from one of the presidential palaces. Both -- I suppose a military move, but also a symbolic one, sending a message.

CLARK: I think that's exactly right. It was a huge psychological move against the Iraqis. It's also a very important move in reassuring Americans and people abroad that the United States has the means to take this fight inside Baghdad.

COOPER: And does the fight now center on -- I guess it's multi- pronged, but in one sense, the main for us, I would imagine, would be continue to target Iraqi leadership in the hopes that cut off the head, everyone else will give up?

CLARK: I think that's right. But I think that you never have only plan or one objective in mind in an operation like this. So at the same time they're targeting the leadership, the Marines are closing in from the south and other forces are coming in from the west and southeast, and maybe even from the northeast. And they will draw the noose tighter around Baghdad. And then they'll begin to identify where the centers of resistance are. And they'll begin to carve up those specific centers of resistance.

COOPER: In a moment, we're going to talk to Walter Rodgers, who as you well know is with the Army's 3-7 Cavalry. But one of the things he had reported earlier was that he had been hearing intelligence that there was this exodus of Baath Party officials, among others, leaving the city. Is that a concern from a military standpoint? Or is it intentional, sort of letting an escape out?

CLARK: Well, it's actually -- it should be concern both to us, and it should be a concern to Saddam Hussein. For Saddam Hussein, it means he's losing control over the city. The people he should be counting on are deserting him, and fleeing apparently, unless it's part of a plan.

And for us, it should be somewhat of a concern because many of these people are people that have information we need. They may be people who are connected with weapons of mass destruction. And in any event, there are people who will need to be identified because when they return under a new administration, their liable to be troublemakers.

COOPER: Well, General Clark, I mean for all we know, Saddam Hussein is in a burka riding in the back of a pick-up truck, heading for Syria. Is there any -- do you think the U.S. military will attempt to have some sort of checkpoint, where they can check this exodus?

CLARK: I think that that's possible. But on the other hand, there are so many ways out. There was always the probability that if Saddam wanted to escape on the ground, he probably could. And the real catch for Saddam Hussein may be in another country.

COOPER: All right, General Clark, appreciate it. We'll talk to you in a little bit.

We're going to go now to CNN's Walter Rodgers, who is embedded with the Army's 3-7th Cavalry on the outskirts, somewhere on the outskirts of Baghdad.

Walter, what's the latest?

WALTER RODGERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, the feeling we're getting here, especially from the commanding generals in this theater of operations is that the war is just -- it's coming to an end. They're not saying that quite yet, but what they are saying is that they have, and this is a quote from a senior general, we have the Iraqis walking backwards on their heels. The same general went on to urge the troops to -- all on the -- all the troops under his command to keep the pressure on. I think he said just a few more days.

The implication being that the Iraqis have taken quite a pounding around Baghdad. In addition, many of the Baathist Party officials and some of the Republican Guard officers are clearly fleeing the country under the cover civilian convoys, moving generally in the direction of Syria. We don't know what happens, of course, when they get to the border.

This is a very crucial time for soldiers in the field, because if they get this information, they tend to let their guard down. That's a very, very dangerous thing. This is a time when soldiers accidentally discharge their weapons. The officers have to work harder, even as the war winds down or where as the U.S. forces become more and more dominant.

Officers in a unit like the 3rd Squadron of the 7th Cavalry have to work extraordinarily hard to make sure nobody lies and puts a sleeping bag down where they should, and then gets run over, or that no one lets their guard down. And as you could hear, perhaps a few moments ago, there was still outgoing fire here, so that perhaps no Iraqi unit tried to sneak up and get a few final shots off, and try to kill a few Americans before this is all over.

So this is a very sensitive time, even though the generals in theater here are extraordinarily upbeat about the performance of their soldiers in the past two weeks -- Anderson?

COOPER: Walter, you had mentioned this sort of -- the officers you had -- were hearing from were talking about sort of days to get the Iraqis, I guess off their heels and onto their rear ends. What is the mood among the enlisted soldiers you are with? I mean, the guys who are in back of you now in the shot I'm looking at right now seem sort of relaxed. Is there a sense that their job -- their -- they still have a lot more ahead of them? Or is it now this is a little bit more, you know, finite work. And it's going to be the work of Special Forces or someone else?

RODGERS: This particular unit does not have new orders. We're in a position somewhat to the flank. Having said that, you can feel a sort of lightning up on the part of the soldiers. They sense that the -- when they go into combat, when we write into the -- what were Iraqi ambushes, those shootouts which would last two hours, fire fights that would last two hours, now are only lasting 20 minutes or so, maybe half an hour.

So you can feel the soldiers loosening up a little. And as I say, that's a particularly dangerous time for an Army unit. The reason being there still are hostile forces out there, not in the numbers, perhaps, not in the masses that we have seen before, but they still try to sneak up on you. And they still try to kill you. So again, the vigilance level has to be maintained -- Anderson?

COOPER: Walter, I remember in the early days, I think in the first 24 hours or so of this war, I remember you, as you were charging through the Iraqi desert with this unit, who you are with, you kept saying that all of these troops, all of the members of the 7th know that their home is through Baghdad.

They've not reached Baghdad. Is there a sense on their behalf that this thing is almost over, that they can get a sense of home being close?

RODGERS: Well, of course that's true. What I said at the time and as I say, we have been all around the Western side of Baghdad, on patrols, reconnaissance, there will be more of that.

The problem is, of course, that units like the 4th Infantry Division are still moving up. And it would be units like the 4th Infantry Division still in Kuwait who have to fill in the ranks of the soldiers here, the 3rd Infantry Division. And again, as much as these soldiers would like to say they're going home, they can't say that yet because they have what's called SASO (ph) duty, which is security duty to man checkpoints, to try to order -- establish a degree of stability here. And there are, you know, there's just a mopping up operation which goes on.

There are still hostile Iraqi forces out there, still trying to kill U.S. soldiers. They can't look to going home yet. First place, they simply don't have orders, but until follow-on units come on, like the 4th Infantry Division, and they're way in the rear still to the best of my knowledge, until these units are relieved, they can't really let themselves think that much about going home -- Anderson?

COOPER: All right, Walter Rodgers, appreciate it. We'll check in with you in a little while.

The U.S. Special Forces have also joined up with Kurdish fighters in northern Iraq. And together, they are moving on Iraqi military positions. Our Brent Sadler is in northern Iraq and he joins us -- Brent?

BRENT SADLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We've had a full day of airstrike activity against many positions along the northern front, but specifically the southeastern corner, not far from the Iranian border. A day when I've seen very close coordination and cooperation between Iraqi forces on the ground, and a special force unit of forward air controllers.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SADLER (voice-over): The beginning of a mission to locate and destroy Saddam Hussein's forces in northern Iraq. Lightly armed, but confident Iraqi Kurds combine their raw battlefield skills with high tech American air power, power that will soon be used by these U.S. Special Forces, preparing the ground for a carefully calculated kill.

The Kurds and their American allies are gunning for the Iraqi regime in any way they can. Baghdad is 100 miles south of here. This route, blocked by Iraqi army soldiers manning this ridge line. The Iraqi Kurds have been biding their time here and waiting the U.S. military's next move.

Now helping them figure out the lay of the land.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is soldier Saddam Hussein.

SADLER: This Kurdish fighter says he knows the terrain like the back of his hand and maps out positions for his American allies with a small mosaic of stones.

(on camera): The sun is setting. There are reports of Iraqi tank movements and U.S. strike aircraft will be operating in this vicinity shortly. If Special Forces can help locate targets and coordinate with close air support, they'll be bombing runs.

(voice-over): These forward air controllers bristle with antennas. They call in America's birds of prey with calm and precision. And the unmistakable trail of a B-52 bomber, armed and ready to strike. The circling war planes hunting their quarry.

But ground and air find it difficult to get a fix on camouflage covered targets.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, it's just so hazy right now, too.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just -- I tell you what, that one right there that I'm looking at looks like that's a net over top of that damn thing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Patience is a virtue sometimes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The time has come but the birds have them do a fly over and see what they think.

SADLER: The first birds draw a blank, but others are on the way.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: About right now, about 15 minutes. And if that one don't come, another one's coming and a B-52s on top.

SADLER: And this time, their targets are confirmed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're cleared hot. Stand by.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Impact, 25 seconds.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 25 seconds.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right, take the right one right there, boom. Exactly.

SADLER: An F-15 releases a 500 pound bomb on demand.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

SADLER: It's close to the target, but not close enough. It is the end of the day, but the attacks have just begun.

The Iraqi lines appear to fire back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, he saw flashes behind the mountain. You might want to get down!

SADLER: Orders are obeyed by one and all until more bombs fall. (on camera): That flash is the detonation of seven, 500 pound bombs dropped from a high altitude B-52 bomber. That's what they sound like.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nice, nice. That looks good. That looks like it took out three and four again.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, shift it down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: East, four, five degrees.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I shifted down, right down that line. So this is our next target and that target.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who is target 1-F?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, yes, that would look good on one.

SADLER (voice-over): And another Iraqi military target goes up in flames.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SADLER: Well, that was the action overnight in this sector of the northern front, just after sunrise here. The area is quiet, but you can count on those forward air controllers getting back into those locations, spotting more targets later this day. Back to you, Anderson.

COOPER: All right, Brent Sadler in northern Iraq. We'll check in with you in a little while.

There is a lot going on all over Iraq. It is certainly not quiet in Baghdad. And we now -- we go to Nic Robertson, who's on the Jordanian-Iraqi border monitoring the situation in Baghdad.

Nic, a busy day?

ROBERTSON: A busy day and a busy night, Anderson. Bombing already heard this morning in the daylight hours in Baghdad. Overnight, decimations had been heard out towards the airport on the southwest of the city where coalition forces are now located. We had also seen the latest reaction, if you will, from Iraqi authorities. President Saddam Hussein and his two sons appearing on Iraqi television, very much a message of defiance coming from the Iraqi leadership. And that's what we've heard from them the day before calling on Iraqi citizens to fight back at coalition forces, saying that the coalition was facing defeat.

And in some ways, some other images of the day as well reflecting that sentiment. Pictures of Iraqi citizens dancing on what appears to be a destroyed coalition tank in the streets of Baghdad. However, it was a very different picture for many of the Iraqis in the capitol. They saw coalition forces driving around the southwest of Baghdad, the southeast of the city. They also say they believe there was a coalition checkpoint on the northern outskirts of the capitol. These -- all these impressions, quite mixed impressions of the city, but one thing for sure. Some people of Baghdad deciding it's too unsafe to live in the city. They have taken off and left. We've heard reports of numbers of people driving out of the city yesterday.

Also, Iraqi forces reinforcing military positions quite close to the airport on the southwest of Baghdad. We've seen Howitzers and heard about tanks, T-72 tanks being moved into position in civilian areas, as civilians moved out of those areas and Iraqi Republican Guard and Fedayeen forces taking up positions that now appear to be frontline positions facing off against the coalition in the airport there -- Anderson?

COOPER: Nic, you're on the border. Over the last couple days, we've had heard many stories about Iraqi nationals in Jordan, from elsewhere trying to go through Jordan into Iraq. A lot of them saying they were going to fight. Are those buses still going?

ROBERTSON: We haven't seen any buses in the last two days. It doesn't mean that people haven't been going. A lot of people have been going through Syria as well, to get into Iraq. We do know Iraqi authorities have been saying that some 6,000 Arab volunteers over and above the number of returning Iraqis, have come back to Baghdad to fight. We did some of them before we left Baghdad, before we were forced out by the Iraqi government two weeks ago. And I have since then talked to people in Baghdad who tell me that more of those volunteer fighters have arrived.

We don't know their level of training. We don't know exactly how the Iraqi authorities have deployed them, but we do understand a number of them are still in Baghdad, Anderson.

COOPER: If you -- and I don't know how extensive you're able to talk to people in Baghdad, but what sense are you getting about -- I mean if you listen to the Iraq's -- Iraqi information minister, you know, U.S. and coalition troops were far away from Baghdad. They weren't even anywhere in the region. And then all of a sudden, they show up driving through, you know, part of downtown. Is there a sense of the people you talk to of shock of surprise or did they expect this?

ROBERTSON: I think there's an element of surprise. Certainly the sources that we talked to say that when this first happened, people were surprised by it, that they didn't expect to see them in so many locations. They're sort of aware the coalition was approaching the city from the southwest and the southeast, but they were very surprised to find checkpoints springing up in the north of the city. And I think that surprised also from what we understand from the people we talked to in Baghdad, playing out because as soon as the coalition forces arrived close to the city, people decided to leave. They could have left sometime before, but that perhaps they weren't expecting the coalition forces to arrive quite so quickly.

But it is very difficult to get very good and broad spectrum independent analysis of what people in Baghdad are thinking. We have a couple of sources we can talk to, who are located in the center of the city. Outside of that, it's very difficult to pick up that broad picture, Anderson.

COOPER: All right, Nic Robertson on the Jordanian-Iraqi border. Thanks very much. We'll check in with you in a little while.

When we come back, we're going to cover a couple things. You've heard Brent Sadler talking about U.S. Special Forces in northern Iraq. Well, they're not just in northern Iraq, they are no doubt on the ground in Baghdad. We're going to talk to our security analyst, J. Kelly McCann for all things special forces.

And we're going to look at the fact of blaze -- that blazing a trail to Baghdad, you find some surprising things along the way. We will have that story in a moment.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASON BELLINI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm standing in front of Saddam Hospital. Saddam Hospital is where Jessica Lynch, the American POW, was rescued by U.S. Special Forces just a few days ago. Today, the Marines were embedded with the 15th Marine Expeditionary Unit. They recovered her dog tags. They recovered these tags...

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Well, the U.S. Special Forces are of course playing a highly important, but understandably very low profile role in the war in Iraq. When we hear about their exploits, they are usually spectacular, like the rescue of Jessica Lynch. Security expert Kelly McCann joins me now to take a look at what the Special Forces can and will do.

Let's talk about -- we saw the Brent Sadler report about what they're doing in northern Iraq, where basically a handful of Special Forces officers are taking on with the help of the Peshmarter (ph), taking on huge numbers of Iraqis.

KELLY MCCANN, SECURITYEXPERT: Absolutely. And that is their most conventional special role similar to what we saw them do in Afghanistan, where they basically used themselves as a force multiplier with the Northern Alliance, the same is true. But the sooner that they can get the indigenous personnel involved in their own fight, and you know, certainly start having some successes, the better.

COOPER: Right. Let's talk about Baghdad. You know, and we're not giving any, in a way all this stuff is basically, you know, public source stuff. But what do you think Special Forces' role is going to be in Baghdad, if it's -- maybe is already?

MCCANN: Oh, I think, you know, we've some examples, limited strike raids, you know, like we saw with Jessica Lynch, where they had to get the intel and then quickly scramble, you know, the force, the raid force, that would get together to do that, the Rangers as a security element, the Seals as a direct action assault unit. I think...

COOPER: Then why have that mixed unit? Was that just for everyone who wanted a piece of it? Or was -- did that make operational sense?

MCCANN: It makes operational sense because of the core competencies of each of the groups. I mean, the Seals have a -- more of a focus on surgical kinds of -- if you would think of it as a jeweler's mallet and a sledgehammer. The Rangers can take on very tough and arduous security positions and do close quarter battle. The Seals have a little bit more esoteric mission in that regard, and have some other esoteric skills, such as advanced breaching skills, things like that, that they can move to an objective faster.

COOPER: There had been talk really in the early days of this operation that there were already Special Forces units or unit on the ground in Baghdad. You know, there was that first strike, attempting to decapitate the leadership. People were saying that there were assets on the ground actually calling in the information.

That would seem to expand as, I mean, now that coalition forces control the airport, that would seem to be a base of operations that you could launch the operations from?

MCCANN: Oh, absolutely. And still, you want to maintain that presence. They're going to work partisans. They're going to actually do reconnaissance and feed that back to the scouting units that would then take it from there, and the conventional units.

They'll do threat assessments. The strike that was supposedly against Chemical Ali, someone had to put eyes and ears on that target and do the siting for that. Those kinds of missions, I think, will continue to accelerate as the force of the United States and the capability accelerates and the Iraqis' degrades.

COOPER: And in terms of what they can do on the ground in Baghdad, listening in on communications, trying to -- I guess their role would be trying to -- the most important would be trying to identify where the leadership is and try to take them out?

MCCANN: Well, a good example, you know, today, the ministry of information, we had Mr. Sahaf out there with his back to a window. I mean, I'm sure that there might have been a couple of people looking through small metal tubes at him as he had his broadcast or would have liked to. It didn't make much military sense for him to do that.

I think that was a desperate effort for him to kind of say look in the back of me, you know, Baghdad is 100 percent -- might have been a contrivance, too.

COOPER: Right.

MCCANN: But also, if you remember last week, there were explosions that were unaccounted for. They weren't artillery. They weren't aerial bombardments. There's a lot of missions like that with a lot of people in motion.

COOPER: Right. All right, the -- just unbelievably fascinating to watch. I think we're going to talk to you a little bit later on. Kelly McCann.

We're going to go right now to the White House, correspondent Suzanne Malveaux for a recap of President Bush's day and a preview of his upcoming summit with British Prime Minister Tony Blair.

Suzanne?

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORREPSPONDENT: Well, Anderson, President Bush in his radio address called Saddam's government "a dying regime." He also vowed that we will not stop until Iraq is free, but the White House also tempered its optimism a bit, recognizing the reality as those allied forces go deep into central Baghdad. There's the possibility of nasty battles ahead.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX (voice-over): During his weekend at Camp David, President Bush reached out to a friend and foe of the Iraqi war, Spain's Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar, and Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Their focus was on the future, a post-Saddam Iraq. Mr. Bush in his weekly radio address.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: By defending our own security, we're ridding the people of Iraq from one of the cruelest regimes on earth.

MALVEAUX: The White House envisions replacing that regime immediately after the conflict, with a military force commanded by General Tommy Franks and a U.S. civilian administration headed by Retired General Jay Garner.

The U.S. would help create an interim Iraqi authority. But the plan is raising questions and even concerns from world leaders that without international input, it is doomed to fail.

KEN POLLACK, CNN ANALYST: The simple fact of the matter is that no one in the United States knows who the Iraqi people want to lead them. And for the United States to simply choose people, whether they're from the inside or from the outside could be very problematic in establishing a -- even a transitional authority with some legitimacy in the eyes of Iraqis.

MALVEAUX: British Prime Minister Tony Blair and many European leaders believe that legitimacy will come if the United Nations endorses the new Iraqi regime. Mr. Bush and Mr. Blair will meet this Monday and Tuesday in Belfast, Ireland to debate the U.N.'s role.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX: Now Mr. Bush and Mr. Blair will also meet with the Irish Prime Minister, as well as leaders from three political parties of northern Ireland, to try to jumpstart this power sharing arrangement between the Catholics and the Protestants. This would really serve as a strong symbol, possibly peace in the Middle East, as well as Iraq -- Anderson?

COOPER: All right, Suzanne Malveaux at the White House. Thanks very much.

We're going to take a short break. When we come back, our coverage continues. We'll have all the latest news that's happening at this hour. We're also going to take a look at the latest tape from -- reported to be of Saddam Hussein and his sons. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

COOPER: Iraqi TV again today broadcast a tape of Saddam Hussein with his sons, Uday and Qusay. Not known whether the tape was shot, was certainly not white balanced very well, or for that matter, if Saddam Hussein is still alive. What is known is that people in the western part of Baghdad had no way to see the pictures since they are still without power.

Meanwhile, coalition forces are destroying Saddam Hussein's many images on their march on Baghdad. CNN analyst Ken Pollack joins us from Washington with his perspective on...

KENNETH POLLACK, CNN ANALYST: Oh, you're kidding, right?

COOPER: ...Saddam's sighting. Ken, you've seen the tape. What did you think?

POLLACK: Who knows, Anderson? I mean, as you pointed out, we don't know when it was made. It may or may not be since the war started. It may or may not tell us anything about Saddam Hussein.

But it is part of a pattern that we've seen from day one, with the Iraqis trying to put these videos out to say Saddam is still alive. He is still in power. And what's more, what's striking about every single one of these tapes is how relaxed and reassured Saddam is. And I think is all part of the pattern, trying to show Iraqis, trying to show Arabs outside of Iraq, trying to show the world that Saddam is non plussed by the entire situation. He's confident that he can win. He believes that he is winning. And he's confident that he will win in the end.

COOPER: Well, you bring up an interesting point. Who is the audience for this thing? I mean, if a good deal of Baghdad's without power, they can't even see it. And it's something you see on satellite, Iraqi TV, is this more for the international audience, more for some sort of message of maybe hopefully someday possibly getting some sort of diplomatic, last minute diplomatic solution to save him?

POLLACK: Yes, I think it's for all of those different audiences, Anderson. I mean, I don't think that the Iraqis are really trying to figure out which audience they ought to be tailoring this message to. I think that they are broadcasting it to all of their supporters or potential supporters, whether inside Iraq or outside.

For the people inside of Iraq, they're trying to convince Saddam's loyalists the old man is still here. He's still in control. He's still in the fight. Therefore, you should keep fighting. For the rest of the Iraqi people, they're trying to say Saddam is still fully in control. And therefore, you should remain very, very nervous and very fearful of him.

Don't join the Americans. But there is also this effort to bring international pressure to bear on the United States and the United Kingdom to end the war and to convince Iraq's supporters outside of Iraq, and of course the Iraqis believe that they have tremendous international support beyond Iraq, that there is still hope to save Saddam's regime, and to stop the war. And that therefore, they should do everything they can, whether it's attacking U.S. interests or simply bringing international pressure to bear.

COOPER: All right, I -- you know, looking at the tape, I mean, Saddam Hussein might be laughing and looked relaxed. Uday and Qusay don't look too happy, I got to tell you. I don't know them personally, but they look pretty glum in that tape to me.

Ken Pollack, appreciate you joining us. Good to talk to you.

We're going to go now to Dr. Sanjay Gupta, who is south of Baghdad with the Marines known as the Devil Docs. Dr. Gupta, what's the latest?

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Anderson. Yes, it has been extremely busy, as you might imagine, just as much fighting there has been going on north of here. The consequences of that fighting, the casualties, the injuries, a lot of that being seen right here. Some numbers, 108 patients over less than 48 hours.

Hence right to me are operating room tents. Operating room tents in the desert. 25 operations in that same period of time. Anderson, they don't do any elective surgery here. It's all life saving operations. These operations are done on people who if they didn't have the operations, they would die. And that's why they do it here this far forward in the desert.

Behind me, Anderson, a couple of trucks. And I don't know if you can see even behind that, behind the Red Cross trucks, a very long convoy. This is part of a convoy that's going to help take this particular surgical unit even further north. This surgical unit is designed to be mobile. Why? So they can move with the troops. And as the troops are moving further north, so is this medical unit.

They're prepared for just about anything. They're seeing all kinds of injuries. But I will tell you this, the caliber of injuries, the significance of these injuries has definitely increased over the last several days. Seeing a lot more gunshot wounds to the head, a lot more wounds to the chest and abdomen. They're also seeing some emotionally difficult situations, as physically challenging as it is for the doctors, it can be emotionally challenging as well.

A six year child, Anderson, was brought in yesterday. Significant -- yesterday our time. Significant shrapnel wounds to the face. A very difficult thing to look at for all the doctors. A lot of these veteran doctors here have been practicing medicine for so many years told me afterwards one of the hardest things they've ever had to see.

This is what it's like. They don't avert their gaze. They have to look. They have to treat. This is what they do. And they will be moving further north. Mark Biello and my photographer will be moving with them, and will continue to post you on their developments. Anderson, back to you.

COOPER: Sanjay, you know, often I've heard soldiers and Marines talk about that golden hour, the hour in which between the -- a wound is received and they -- the soldier has to get medical attention. Do you have a sense of how long it takes from the time a soldier's injured? I mean, I assume it differs, but how long it takes from the time a soldier's injured or a Marine is injured on the battlefield to the time they get to the Devil Docs?

GUPTA: Yes, very good question, Anderson. And basically, it's that golden hour on which all of this is predicated. It is less than an hour to get here. And that is the goal. That's exactly what they're trying to do. Listen, there were some valuable lessons learned from wars past. Vietnam really was the gold standard. You had a very compressed battlefield. In order to get a patient from the frontlines to rear line treatment did not take very long.

During the Gulf War, a lot of things changed. The battlefield's very spread out now, moving very quickly. Hard to get patients from the frontline to definitive treatment. So the simple yet brilliant concept of these mobile surgical units is listen, if you can't get the patient all the way back to care at the rear line, let's bring the definitive care or more definitive care to the patient. And that's why these mobile units move forward, bringing patients from the frontline here takes less than an hour. That's exactly the goal. And the reason it's the goal is because if you can get patients treated within that hour, it makes all the difference in terms of their overall survival.

And they're doing a good job of it, Anderson.

COOPER: All right, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, it certainly looks that way. Thanks for joining us. We'll talk to you again shortly.

Just so you, the viewer, know this is around the time of day, because of the time change with Iraq, where we start to get a lot of our embedded reporters checking in with us. And that's why we bring them to you as soon as we can get them, because often we do not know how long we will get them for. We have a very short window. So that is why we jumped from one area off into another.

I'm just told we made contact with Ron Martz. He's an embedded correspondent from "Atlanta Journal Constitution." He apparently was with a combat patrol in central Baghdad on Sunday.

Ron, what can you tell us about the operation you went out on?

RON MARTZ, "ATLANTA JOURNAL CONSTITUTION": Well, the patrol left about first light on Saturday morning from a few miles south of downtown Baghdad. The day before this particular task force that I am embedded with, it's task force 164 of the 3rd Infantry Division, they had cleared highway 8 for several miles south of the intersection with highway 1 to make sure that reinforcements from the Medina Division could not move north.

Then on Saturday, they moved into central Baghdad with the entire task force of about 700 plus soldiers, tanks, Bradley fighting vehicles, other armored vehicles. There was a lot of contact, a lot of fire in both directions. There were a number of fighting positions that had been dug alongside the road, one and two men fox holes, bunkers, various fighting positions. And they took a lot of rocket propelled grenades, a lot of incoming fire, a lot of outgoing fire. They saw a number of destroyed artillery pieces, and aircraft pieces, destroyed bumpers.

The unit that I was with, Charley Company of Task Force 164, they lost a tank. The tank got hit in the fuel cell by an anti tank rocket. And the crew and other soldiers spent about 15 minutes or so under fire, trying to save the tank, save the weapon, save sensitive equipment and documents. And then, as moved on, the armored personnel carrier in which I was riding, we had two soldiers hit almost simultaneously. And we were standing right next to me. And then, it took -- they told me it only took about 15 minutes to get to the spot where they could get some medical evacuation helicopters in there. It seemed more like 15 hours at the time, though, that probably a medic was in there trying to treat the soldiers.

I was trying to help as best I could. Fortunately, the wounds were not too serious. They were -- well, I say not too serious. They'll survive, but they were pretty shot up.

COOPER: How long did this operation go on for, Ron?

MARTZ: It went on for several hours. I know it started about first light, a little after 5:00 a.m. on Saturday. They finally linked up with forces at the airports. Probably about three to four hours later.

The route that they took was essentially highway 8, which leads into Baghdad from the south and curves around to the west, just before it hits the Tigress River and then highway 8 continues on to the airport.

I lost contact with exactly where we were, once the two soldiers in my APC were hit, because I was down in there with them. And so, I'm not sure exactly where we were at any particular time. All I know is that when we -- when the APC finally stopped and we got the soldiers out, got them on Medivac helicopters, that we were at the airport. So the airport yesterday, I guess it was about 10:30 our time, which would have been about 2:30 a.m. Saturday your time, airport was secure at that point. They seemed to have cleared that particularly highway, and opened up a main supply route, which they need desperately at this point. They need the airport also, because they're running short of water. They're running short of parts for tanks and other vehicles. And it's becoming a bit of a critical issue at this point.

COOPER: All right, Ron Martz with the "The Atlanta Journal Constitution." I appreciate you calling in. A harrowing 24 hours it has been for you and the men in the Charley Company Task Force 164 of the 3rd Infantry. Thanks for telling us their story.

We're going to go now with -- to Chris Plante, who's at the Pentagon for the latest on overview of the battle for Baghdad in Operation Iraqi Freedom.

Chris...

CHRIS PLANTE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Anderson. That's right, nobody was more surprised than the people of Baghdad when the 3rd Infantry Division rolled in from the south and moved through the south and western portion of the city, just after dawn, engaging Republican Guard and Special Republican Guard Units.

There was a good deal of heavy combat throughout the south and western part of the city. We're hearing from Walt Rodgers that his unit alone, the 7th Cavalry, was responsible for destroying between 30 and 35 Iraqi tanks.

More of that is certainly to come, as the Marine Corp's first expeditionary force comes in from the south and eastern part of the city. They are expected to also make forays into Baghdad proper, and take on forces as they find them. And air power will also be coming into the equation very soon, as Air Force jets and Navy jets flying from aircraft carriers are expected to come in and provide close air support in the urban environment for these ground forces, as they take on Iraqi forces throughout the city.

Their targets will be mortars, anti aircraft artillery, various other artillery pieces throughout the city. And at the briefing in Doha this morning, General Renuart, who's been on the defensive for the last week because people kept saying that the plan was taking too long, actually took a moment out to gloat.

VICTOR RENUART JR., MAJ. GEN., U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: The progress could be characterized as nothing short of superb. A lot was made about we were out there for three or four days, as you know bad weather had challenged us a bit. A lot of it was made of bringing the supply lines along.

I think what we've shown is that the plan was very smoothly executed, that logistics support, humanitarian assistance has flowed in behind the combat troops in a rate that allowed the momentum of the fight to be carried to the Iraqis in a steady fashion with great results.

PLANTE: And Anderson, in the meantime we're hearing that a number of Iraqi officials, senior officials from the Baath Party and from the Republican Guard are fleeing the city, apparently towards Syria and bringing with them boxes full of cash -- Anderson?

COOPER: An interesting development that is. Chris Plante at the Pentagon, thanks. We'll check in with you in a little while.

The prospect of urban combat, of course, dredges up some pretty grim memories of Mogadishu, Somalia. When we come back, we'll talk to an Army ranger who was there when the Blackhawk went down. We'll get his perspective on what U.S. troops may face in Baghdad. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: There was a very disturbing discovery in Nasiriya today, as U.S. Marines searched for weapons in the home of a suspected Baath Party member. Our Jason Bellini has more on that and a look at how Iraqi citizens are reacting to U.S. troops in Nasiriya.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASON BELLINI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm standing in front of Saddam Hospital. Saddam Hospital is where Jessica Lynch, the American POW, was rescued by U.S. Special Forces just a few days ago. Today, the Marines were embedded with the 15th Marine Expeditionary Unit. They recovered her dog tags. They recovered these tags from what they believe is the residence of a Baath Party member. They found it in this residence along the river, as they were looking for arms, various types of munitions that they also recovered in that same position.

As the Marines make these discoveries, and they've made quite a number of these armed cache discoveries. In fact they say it slowed them down from doing the rest of the work that they want to do, because there's so much of these arms here for them to deal with.

But as they do that, they're operating in a very changed climate and a changing climate. People here in some quarters are giving them quite a reception. We had an opportunity earlier to speak with some Iraqis who were thrilled by their presence in the city.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No like.

BELLINI: No like Saddam?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No like Saddam.

BELLINI: Do you like Bush?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Maybe. I likes Bush.

BELLINI: What's that, Bush, you like Bush?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Maybe. BELLINI: Marines, U.S. Marines?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good, good.

BELLINI: U.S. Marines, good.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good, yes. Good, good.

BELLINI: Bush is good?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good. Maybe George Bush. George Bush.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, yes, USA! Yes, yes, USA!

BELLINI: In juxtaposition to those Iraqis that you just saw, earlier we spoke with some Iraqis who are inside Saddam Hospital. There's some images we're showing you here of Iraqis who were injured in aerial bombardments. We spoke with Juan, a 20 year old who said he was eating cereal in the kitchen of his home when he heard helicopters overhead. Then a loud explosion. His father was killed in the blast. And he's been in the hospital and will likely be in this hospital for a -- quite a long time with his injuries.

Some very tragic injuries witnessed inside of that hospital, and it's a very tragic stories, tragedy that's come with this war. I'm Jason Bellini, CNN, Nasiriya, Iraq.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: We're going to go now to CNN's Ed Lavandera at Fort Bliss, Texas. It is the home of the Army's 507th Maintenance Company, which got caught in a deadly ambush March 23rd. That of course the unit that Jessica Lynch belonged to -- Ed?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Anderson. Well here, over the course of the last two weeks, the military community here at Fort Bliss, Texas and in El Paso as well have been keeping close tabs as to what happened with the 15 soldiers from the 507th Maintenance Company based here at Fort Bliss.

Now we knew that five of them are being held as prisoners of war. And we knew -- we've known for some time that two of them were found dead, but the fate of the other eight was unknown until Wednesday, when Jessica Lynch was found alive. But then that gave a lot of hope to many families that perhaps the news of the other seven of other soldiers missing in action might also turn out to be as positive and cheerful as Jessica Lynch's outcome turned out to be, but that has not turned out to be the case. Many family members saying that they were told yesterday by the Army that these other seven soldiers that have been missing in action were found dead near the hospital where Jessica Lynch was found.

You might imagine that this has been a very depressing day here at Fort Bliss. Flags have been flying at half staff. There have been signs of support that have been popping up around the base. And we're also told that military officials are already planning a memorial service for these soldiers of the 507th Maintenance Company. That will happen next Friday here on the base. Exact time and location hasn't been announced publicly yet, but officials here say that that will probably be open to the public as well.

There's also church services, regularly scheduled church services here scheduled for tomorrow, which will take on a more poignant meaning tomorrow morning as well, as the -- many of the messages that will be delivered, we're told, will focus on the fate of this -- soldiers -- fellow soldiers here from Fort Bliss as well.

And one family in particular here from El Paso, the youngest member of this 507th Maintenance Company, Private Ruben Estrella Soto, who's from El Paso. His family has been getting the support of other family members here. They have come by Soto's house to offer support to his family members. And we're told by one of his cousins that that private was just looking forward to coming home from his mission in Iraq. He had big plans. He said when he got back, he had plans to get married.

HECTOR FEGORA PEREZ, PVT. ESTRELLA SOTO'S COUSIN: He was 18 years old. He was barely graduated from Desert View here High School. And you know, he was really young guy. You know, to die, he was - he had great hopes for his life. He -- I talked to him before he left to the war, you know, and he wanted to get married when he came back from war.

LAVANDERA: Now Anderson, perhaps some of these family members can find some solace in the fact the story behind the recovery of their bodies, we're told by officials at Central Command in Qatar, that the Special Forces soldiers that went into rescue Jessica Lynch as soon as they had found out that the bodies of the other soldiers were nearby, we were told that they went into their -- they were buried in graves near the hospital, that they went in with their bare hands and removed the bodies so that they could be taken out in the same mission that rescued Jessica Lynch, a testament they say to what all of these soldiers will do to bring back their fellow soldiers back home safely -- Anderson?

COOPER: Yes, so many, so young. Thanks, Ed Lavandera at Fort Bliss, Texas. Thanks very much.

Coming up in just a few minutes right after the break, you might remember the most intense urban ground fighting since World War II happened not in Iraq, but in Mogadishu in Somalia in 1993 in August to be exact. It was, of course, made into the book and the movie, "Blackhawk Down." When we come back, we're going to talk to one of the men who took part in that operation.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Well British forces in Basra had made the dismantling of the Baath Party a prime objective. British reporter Juliet Bremner, embedded with the Desert Rats, that legendary unit, reports now in a roundup of party members.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) JULIET BREMNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Dominating the city gates to Basra, Saddam Hussein and his henchmen still claim to control this southern port. But the British want to send a powerful symbolic message. Soldiers are here to tear down the regime and all it stands for.

By the time they leave Iraq, they're determined Saddam and his Baath Party will have bitten the dust. The approach can seem frustratingly slow, but day by day, the Desert Rats are exerting more control. Checkpoints meant to filter out Iraqi hard-liners.

(on camera): They're well within striking distance of the mortars and rockets of the Fedayeen militia, but they're prepared to take that risk to try and persuade the people of Basra that they won't desert them, that they'll stick with this however messy it gets.

(voice-over): Drastic action is needed to convince a jubilant population. We watched a night-time raid on the homes of Baath Party officials and Fedayeen militia. These are men singled out by locals, and believed by Army intelligence to be behind much of the brutality and corruption.

Most are not accused of specific crimes, but suspected of being part of the state sponsored climate of fear.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on, get up!

BREMNER: The party's influence extends to every corner of Iraqi society. In two small communities, we witnessed more than 70 people being rounded up. Some are clearly terrified of what lies ahead, uncertain of their fate, overcome by nerves.

But as it ended, there was no British apology for the scale of the operation.

PAUL NANSON, MAJ., 1st FUSILIERS: We came in firm. We came in third. There was no short spite. We gave a good warning before we came in. We've been playing warnings for the people to stay in their houses. And we've only lifted those people who we got very good intelligence on.

BREMNER: This is not a tactic that can be regularly repeated. All the British risk being accused of installing their own rule of terror. Despite the discomfort of a few, there's a conviction that this is a night's work that will benefit the majority.

Juliet Bremner in Basra.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

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