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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown

Ecstatic Families React at Rescue of POW Loved Ones

Aired April 13, 2003 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening from the CNN Center in Atlanta.
Ecstatic, jubilant, joyous, words we heard again and again today from the families and the friends of seven rescued POWs. For weeks, they have been living with unimaginable stress, as well as anxiety. Today, they and many of us simply could not stop smiling. As one dad put it, "this is the greatest day of my life," he said.

We are going to spend a lot of time tonight looking at how they were rescued, how they are, and hear from the families themselves. We begin tonight with an overview of what was a very dramatic day.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER (voice-over): Three weeks since they went missing in action, three weeks of waiting and wondering the fate of seven American POWs, five of from the 507th Maintenance Company and two Army Apache helicopter pilots were found alive today. And they were free.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So I told God, I said, "Lord, let my Joseph come home on my birthday or before my birthday, whatever it's going to be." I said, "Please." I said, "you know, just let my Joseph home," you know. And I'm so glad. Sometimes God is full of surprises.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On behalf of Secretary, I'm glad to let you know that your son has been found.

COOPER: It didn't matter if you a parent, a loved one, or a four star general, Sunday was a good day.

GEN. TOMMY FRANKS, CENTRAL COMMAND: I know they're in good shape. And I know they're in our hands and under our control now. And that's very good.

COOPER: CNN's Bob Franken reported live with an exclusive on the scene as the seven soldiers, two with apparent gunshot wounds, were airlifted out of the area.

BOB FRANKEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They were being held somewhere north of Samarra in Iraq when the officers and the unit that was holding them captive deserted. The junior members of that unit decided to help them become free. So they escorted until they ran into a Marine unit, a light armored unit, that was going up the road and turned them over.

COOPER: All seven had been released from a Kuwaiti hospital. And according to a spokesman, are on their way to Doha, Qatar.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I saw nothing that looked abnormal with any of them. And again, their spirits were great. They were just glad to be back, sort of, in American soil.

COOPER: It didn't take long for former POW and fellow 507th Maintenance Company soldier, Private First Class Jessica Lynch, to get word of today's rescue.

She continues her recovery at Walter Reed Hospital in the U.S. And her family issued this statement on her behalf.

"Our family joins America in rejoicing over the news and the safe return of seven brave heroes to U.S. custody in Iraq. To the families of these great troops, we'd like to offer you our assurances that they receive the best care imaginable."

BRENT SADLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Total abandonment, absolutely incredible. This is quite remarkable revelations. It seems that Tikrit's armed forces, the so-called last stand, have simply gone away.

COOPER: Other news Sunday, this time out of Tikrit, Saddam Hussein's hometown, the last city in Iraq not occupied by coalition forces.

CNN's Brent Sadler made the long journey into Tikrit and offered this initial report.

SADLER: The fact we're so close to Tikrit and we're seeing, you know, destroyed or abandoned military equipment leaves me to perhaps believe that Tikrit can't be that heavily defended.

OK, that's gunfire. OK, we've just come under attack, under attack.

COOPER: It turned out to be a very dangerous journey. As Sadler and his team left Tikrit, they came under fire.

SADLER: We're OK. We're OK.

COOPER: U.S. Marines battled pockets of resistance by Saddam loyalists in Tikrit. Air support was sent in to help. In an interview earlier with CNN's Wolf Blitzer, General Tommy Franks said this about Tikrit.

FRANKS: I wouldn't say it's over, but I will say we have American forces in Tikrit right now.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: And is there any resistance organized, military resistance?

FRANKS: When last I checked, this force was moving on Tikrit, and there was not any resistance.

COOPER: A U.S. spokesman told embedded reporters Marines destroyed five manned tanks earlier on the outskirts of the town, and engaged in a fierce firefight with an Iraqi infantry unit, killing at least 15.

Back in Baghdad, the looting continued and there was a late night firefight outside the Palestine Hotel in the center of the city.

But as CNN's Christiane Amanpour reported, the fighting and the looting seems to be on a smaller scale. And U.S. troops have set up round the clock patrols with the help, it seems, of some Iraqis.

New information released today about Saddam Hussein. No, he hasn't been found, but if killed, the U.S. says they'll be able to prove it because they have his DNA.

BLITZER: Do you have DNA of Saddam Hussein?

FRANKS: Oh, of course. Of course.

BLITZER: You do?

FRANKS: Of course.

COOPER: And if Saddam is alive, there's a possibility that he and other high ranking Iraqi leaders may be heading to Syria. Case in point, Saddam Hussein's half brother. Pentagon officials announced today the arrest of Watban Ibrahim Hassan al-Tikriti as he tried to flee to Syria.

It is a country the U.S. warns should not become a safe harbor for the Iraqi leadership.

DONALD RUMSFELD, U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: Iraqi -- senior Iraqi people have been moving into Syria. And some staying and some transiting. We certainly are hopeful that Syria will not become a haven for war criminals or terrorists.

COOPER: Sunday was a day where the war seemed closer to an end. But General Franks says he is not ready to claim victory just yet. There is still much more to do in Iraq, he says, still four Americans missing. The war goes on.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: It certainly does. We can imagine that last week was especially tough for the families of the POWs returned today. Hearing of the great success of the war, while their loved ones were still nowhere to be found. The father of Apache pilot Ronald Young said this, "He's worth waiting for, if I have to wait from now on."

Well, as it turned out he had to wait only a few more days. Susan Candiotti has been with the Young family and joins us now -- Susan?

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Anderson. As you point out, there were times in the last week alone since the fall of Baghdad when things just got a little bit too quiet for the Young family. They worried that there was no information about their son, especially after those bloody uniforms had been found.

But that worry quickly turned to joy this day, when news broke that seven POWs had been found.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a guy -- that's him, coming out...

CANDIOTTI (voice-over): Ronald Young's parents knew their son was free when they saw his picture on TV. Then the Army came to the door.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On behalf of Secretary of the Army, we want you to know that your son has been found.

CANDIOTTI: For three weeks, Ronald Young had been a prisoner somewhere inside Iraq. His mother could not believe how well he looked.

KAYE YOUNG, MOTHER OF RESCUED POW: He looked good. I couldn't believe he's running. He got that big grin.

ROBERT YOUNG, SR., FATHER OF RESCUED POW: Well look where he's at. I would be running, too.

CANDIOTTI: Young and fellow pilot David Williams were captured after their helicopter went down. Both were shown on TV. What will his father tell him when he gets back?

R. YOUNG, SR.: So proud of you, and I love you better than anything in the world, but don't scare me like that any more.

CANDIOTTI: Finally, a call from Ron in Kuwait.

K. YOUNG: Hey, Ron!

R. YOUNG, SR.: Oh!

K. YOUNG: Everybody's here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, my God!

` K. YOUNG: No, how are you? Well, we're just having a party for you. Why aren't you here?

CANDIOTTI: The call lasted five minutes.

K. YOUNG: I can't wait to hold you. When I see you, we're just going to sit and hug about 30 minutes.

CANDIOTTI: When Ron Young's father began talking, his mother's emotions took hold.

Young said he lost weight, at least 20 pounds as a POW, but didn't reveal much more about his captivity. K. YOUNG: I asked him how he was treated. And he said that he was treated well the last two or three days. They met up with some people that treated them good, but he said in the beginning, it wasn't too great.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CANDIOTTI: Of course, the parents would love to learn more details, but they realize now is not the time. Soon they know that time will come at their son's pace. For now, they're looking forward to reuniting with their son, Ronald Young, in Washington, hopefully, before the week is up -- Anderson?

COOPER: And what a reunion that will be for that family and all the others. Susan Candiotti, thanks very much.

It is of course safe to say we think that the family of David Williams must've begun to fear that the 24th of March might forever be a black and haunting date to them. That was the day Chief Warrant Officer Williams went missing with another soldier, after their Apache helicopter went down.

But now, glad to say the Williams family has another date to remember. Today's date, and this date joyfully cancels out the other ones.

CNN's Jamie Colby has been with the Williams family -- Jamie?

JAMIE COLBY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And that, Anderson, is an understatement. I was on the phone with Michelle Williams this morning, when she saw the first pictures of her husband David. And she squealed with delight, "That's David, that's David."

She said he looks well. And then this afternoon, she -- Michelle, a Black Hawk helicopter pilot herself, had a 10 minute phone conversation with her husband and he said he sounds strong and feels well as well.

She doesn't when she'll be reunited. And she is anxiously awaiting news of when she can go and join her husband. In the interim, she has been making videos of their two beautiful children, two year old Jason and six month old Madison, to take with her, to show him the children.

It has been a trying time, not only for Michelle, but also for everyone here in Killeen. This is a military town. Fort Hood is located right here. Their home base, both of them worked at the base. And the community has really rallied, Anderson. There's a POW flag and a monument in front of their house now. Everybody has sent their prayers. And we also had a chance to speak with David's father. He was at the airport when we arrived in Killeen this afternoon on his way home to Florida. He told us that he knew the strength and faith that his son had would get him through this difficult time.

Michelle Williams with a big smile tonight has asked that she be left alone with family to savor the moment she's waited for for so many days. And now she has reason to celebrate -- Anderson?

COOPER: She certainly does at that. Jamie Colby, thanks for that report.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: As we said, it has been a dangerous day in Baghdad. A firefight broke out with gunmen holed up in a building near the Palestine Hotel. More danger as U.S. forces continue to struggle with restoring order in that city.

Nic Robertson is in Baghdad tonight and has the latest on what's going on -- Nic?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, hello. Well, that was the situation developed about 4.5 hours ago. Snipers in a building close to Palestine Hotel took pot shots at Marines, who are providing security here. The Marines have returned fire with heavy machine guns. Two long extended bursts, red trace surrounds, flying off to the location, about 100 yards away from the positions that they've taken up around this building.

Shortly after, they arrested -- the Marines arrested there men. It is not clear if these men were the snipers or that they were providing security for a neighboring building, but certainly the Marines have brought them in for questioning and will be looking at the -- looking perhaps a little more closely at the security at some of the buildings very, very close to this Palestine Hotel, which is home at this time to several hundreds of journalists covering the situation in Baghdad.

And one of the reasons that this is the only hotel journalists will stay in is because the other large hotels in the city have either been looted or looted and burned at this time. The looting does still continue. Perhaps the looters able to haul away things of less value, but the anger and frustration in the community here because of the lack of security at this time is really palpable.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON (voice-over): Straining under the weight of shabby furnishings, a car full of looters pulls away from a government ministry. Apparently slim pickings not put plunderers off.

"I have no money," says Samir, "no furniture in my house. I don't have a pot to cook in, but now I do."

Inside Iraq's television station, a similar story. Looters searching harder to get the good stuff.

Among this band of would-be rip-off merchants, frustration and anger setting in. "We are living in anarchy and chaos," says Ali. "Before with Saddam, at least we could sleep peacefully. We need protection."

Father of eight, Jihad shows his military pension card. All the records are gone, he says. Where can I get money to feed my family?

None will admit to looting, but as we stand talking, goods gradually fill the trolley behind us, ready to be carted off.

(on camera): This office is typical of what we're finding around Baghdad in the government buildings. Everything has been looted that seems to be just about of any value to the people. This is another videotape, but it wouldn't be useful to anyone at home. This wouldn't work in a home VCR.

(voice-over): Unarmed and out on the streets, policemen talk confidently of tackling the often toting looters.

GEN. ALI TAHA, POLICE OFFICER: We could do everything. The citizens know how powerful the police are. We can lessen the chaos and control it.

ROBERTSON: Across the road, Assim angrily doubts the claim. They do this just for the cameras, he says. It's a lie. As we stopped to listen, a crowd gathers, pouring out their grievances.

Emotions are raw and we are barraged with a plethora of concerns. "My baby is dying," says Layla. "I told the U.S. soldiers, but they don't care."

"Saddam was as dog," this man screams, "but if the Americans don't help, we will revolt."

"Armed men are coming to my house and attacking my girls," pleads Najat. "I came here to tell the press."

Most say they are appealing to journalists, because they don't know where else to go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have a question with that was any place to ask about a missing people, because we have a lot of people. And our people, they are missing in the town.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No one know what will make -- what you will do. This is the problem. We must know our future. What will we eat tomorrow?

ROBERTSON: In a tense crowd, Najat calls out to the lone policeman. "I want to see you in our neighborhood." "This is a catastrophe for you and us," he says. "And God willing, we'll overcome it.

As he leaves, the crowd echoes his words, "En Shallah." With God's grace, a well worn phrase here, speaking more to hope than certainty.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON: Now the hope is that there will be a police force out on the streets. And steps are beginning to take place to put that in place. There was a meeting here a little less than 24 hours ago with some of the new political faces beginning to appear in Baghdad, appealing not only to the policeman to come back to work, but also to doctors and engineers to try and get these key people back to provide security, to provide electricity, to provide healthcare, to provide the basics essentially of what the people of Baghdad want at the moment. And this being supported by the U.S. Marines and by the U.S. Army at this time. In a few hours' time, the police, at least those who are willing to report for duty in any numbers, are expecting to gather at their academy. They would divide the city up into different areas, and they will begin their work -- Anderson?

COOPER: Nic, what is the perception of the police in Baghdad? I mean, are they seen with as much fear as the secret police, for instance, were seen in that city?

ROBERTSON: Nobody here is any doubt about how brutal some of the police were, about how even just lowly traffic cops, if you will, would extort bribes from people for even running a red light, for having a faulty indicator.

So there is a lot of animosity towards the police. Nobody here feels that the police are good particularly good people.

What they do feel is that they need something, and really they have no one else to turn to as this time, other than the police. And it's clear that there will likely be a lot of -- that animosity will likely continue for some time, but people here are so frustrated, so angry, that they will at this time, accept anybody.

However, if they were to see senior officials who they know are tainted by association with the regime, are tainted by past actions, then that will make that animosity grow very quickly, Anderson.

COOPER: All right, Nic Robertson, live in Baghdad. Remarkable days there. Thanks very much.

We're going to check now with Colonel Mike Turner, who is our military expert with us tonight, as he was last night. And Colonel Turner hopefully tonight will be a little less eventful than the last night. You and I watched Brent Sadler traveling around Tikrit in an extraordinary three hours or so of live TV.

Colonel Turner, as you look as those images in Baghdad, it's a tricky proposition. I guess you got to use the police to -- they are an institution that they are, and that the personnel are still there, but as Nic said, they're often despised?

COL. MICHAEL TURNER, (RET.), U.S. AIR FORCE, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, absolutely, but this will occur in layers. Right now, we'll use what we have. I suspect our forces have been trained in this sort of a hand-off. And they will monitor the situation fairly closely.

I think we've had some indications in the last day or two that the looting is beginning to subside. It's certainly still fairly widespread, but it doesn't appear to be quite as intense as it was a few days ago. And if we can begin now to just have some visible manifestation of authority, I think that the looting will really tend to decrease fairly substantially.

As the report that we just heard suggests though, that the Baghdad police force is not held in particularly high regard in the civilian population. They're an interim measure.

Within a week of the Battle of Baghdad, essentially to begin to take steps to quell these -- the looting and bring some sort of order back in. And I think what we'll begin to see is we will see replacements for the local police force. They'll be monitored very closely. And then we'll begin to see that they'll be subsumed by some larger neutral constabulary that'll move into the Baghdad area over the days and weeks ahead.

So I think it's a step in the right direction, but you're absolutely right. We need to be very cautious about the use of the local police.

COOPER: Yes, you say days and weeks ahead, but I mean I think back to Haiti after the U.S. basically went in there, after Raoul Cedras left the country, I remember going back for years doing stories on the retraining of the Haitian police force, first with U.S. police officers, then international police officers. And they never got it together.

I mean, you go to Haiti now, it's still chaos. It's a difficult thing to do, though, to rebuild a police force.

TURNER: It's extraordinary complex and lengthy and difficult. And I don't know what the administration's plans are for how to do this in post war Iraq. I'm absolutely certain that some agencies and experts who have sat down and thought through this entire process, obviously we're going to have to figure out how to integrate the U.N. or agencies like the U.N. to begin to build this constabulary.

So what you might see is initially the Iraqi police force. And then fairly quickly, they will be subsumed as a subset of some larger probably American transitional constabulary. And that will then be handed off to some neutral constabulary from an agency, from one of the member nations of the United Nations, or perhaps some other agency.

And you're right. I suspect that this sort of interim order and rule of law measures that they're going to try and put into place will take -- could very easily take years. And that of course, is the big unknown. And how much will the U.S. become involved in that fairly lengthy and complicated process?

And if Haiti was difficult, you can just imagine a country the size of Iraq, how hard that would be.

COOPER: All right Colonel Mike Turner, you're going to be with us all evening long. We'll check in with you in a little while.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Well, Athol of Jane Riley of Pennsauken, New Jersey had been with us yesterday. We had been talking with them about the heartbreaking difficulty of their situation, being parents of a young soldier still missing in Iraq.

Now wonderful to say, we can talk instead about how it feels to know that their son, Sergeant James Riley, is safe and free and well.

Mr. and Mrs. Riley, thanks for being with us. We are very glad to see you under these circumstances. Let me start with you, Mr. Riley. Your day, how did you feel?

ATHOL RILEY, FATHER OF FORMER POW: Well, it's been very busy day. It started off at 10:00 this morning. And it still hasn't stopped.

We would like to thank everybody that's been involved, the government, the service people, maybe other foreign governments that we don't about that were involved, the Iraqi people, who were perhaps some of the most important, and the military. They have a program that's -- I believe is just newly instituted, and has been excellent with it being here.

COOPER: Mrs. Riley, sorry, was there every moment, Mrs. Riley...

JANE RILEY, MOTHER OF FORMER POW: Yes?

COOPER: When you lost hope?

J. RILEY: No, never. Never lose hope or faith. And we've had a lot of people who've been praying with us around the world and everywhere that I'd like to thank for all their prayers and hope they continue for praying for the rest of the missing, and that we get them all home, too.

COOPER: Yes, there are four Americans still listed as missing in action. I'm glad you mentioned that.

J. RILEY: Yes.

COOPER: If you can, take us back over the last couple weeks. I mean, what is it like, the day to day not knowing? I imagine there are days where hopes are raised and then hopes are dashed? Mrs. Riley, if you can, just talk about it a little bit?

J. RILEY: Our faith kept us, that you know, he would come back to us. And we tried not to listen to the news too much, because there's too much being said that in the end doesn't pan out. And you just take it day by day and the people around you give you the support you need and the prayers and just help you, sustain you, and get you going.

COOPER: How did you get word today? How did you first find out about it?

J. RILEY: Athol?

A. RILEY: Well, the first thing we wake up to a clock radio that's set to KYW in Philadelphia. And that's an all news station. It went on at 7:00 this morning. And one of the first things that we heard when it went on was that some POWs or MIAs had been rescued.

Simultaneous with that, the phone rang. And it was Major Banks, the casualty officer, to tell us that that was correct. At that time, he didn't know whether our son was part of that or not.

So we continued to get dressed and go to church for Palm Sunday service. And then when we came home, he arrived to tell us that yes, indeed, our son was part of the group that was rescued.

COOPER: I assume by this point, Mrs. Riley, you have talked to him, you have seen the pictures no doubt. How does he look? How does he sound?

J. RILEY: He sounded all right. We had a couple of pictures we saw. He didn't look too bad considering. And he didn't sound too bad considering, really.

We had the unfortunate task of telling him that his sister had passed away, because he asked how she was doing, because he knew she was ill. And he also asked after his other sister. And also stated he didn't want to see rice or chicken again. And I guess that's what they fed them.

But he didn't state anything about how they treated or anything more informative. It was really just a hello, I'm alive, I'm well and I'll see you kind of conversation.

COOPER: What do you intend to -- sorry, go ahead.

A. RILEY: He said he was very tired and his mind was going a mile a minute.

COOPER: Yes, I can't even imagine. What do you intend to feed him, if not rice and chicken when he returns?

J. RILEY: When the military allows us to see him. And we don't know when that will be. We'll find out with the rest of you, probably.

COOPER: All right, well Mr. and Mrs. Riley, it has been a long day. I'm sure an exhausting day, a happy one. And we appreciate you spending time with us this evening, Athol and Jane Riley. Thanks very much.

(NEWSBREAK)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Well, last night, if you were with us, about midnight Eastern time, you got to take an amazing ride through what was thought to be Saddam Hussein's last remaining stronghold, Tikrit. We took that ride last night with CNN's Brent Sadler who joins us now in Erbil to reveal what he saw, and more than that, what he encountered on the way out, quite a scary thing to happen. Brent, it is nice to see you safe and sound?

BRENT SADLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, indeed, it feels very good to be here, Anderson, in the safety of northern Iraq back at our home base, our hotel here.

Just to turn the clock back a little bit and give you some new information, U.S. Marines have moved on Tikrit. Tikrit, that city fortress, where Saddam Hussein comes from originally. And it's worth noting in this report that many of the people most wanted on that list that the U.S. has published hail from Tikrit. Tikrit really the hometown of many of Saddam Hussein's top loyalists.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SADLER (voice-over): The road to Tikrit, targeted by air strikes, preparing for an armored assault by U.S. Marines. We approached the city's outskirts in the hours before the Americans arrived.

So we're going through this gate now. This is the southern entrance to Tikrit. Even as the Marines were moving towards the city, we discovered that many of Iraq's soldiers had fled, their armor abandoned in a hurry.

(on camera): Extraordinary, the hatch is open. The machine gun obviously working. Bullets in the bridge. The hatch open here. It seems that Tikrit's armed forces, the so-called last stand, have simply gone away where three, four miles I guess from the center of Tikrit, this would have been a well defended position, dug out ABCs all along away this area.

No troops, they're gone. This is under a cover with no damage. Look. That tank is intact. Crews long gone.

(voice-over): Now you wouldn't know from the highway that this compound here, it's very large barracks. It was basically in such a shocking state of neglect and disrepair and collapse.

Look, this whole place is a scrap yard. This area around here is lined with very large storage facilities. And you'll see a lot of them have been blasted by coalition air strikes.

I would say there are hundreds of armed vehicles in this area, this vast military complex as we slowly inch our way through it.

On the turnoff to Tikrit, we encounter a lorry driver who said he knew what was happening inside the city. He told us that Tikrit was okay, and that Saddam Hussein was halas (ph), Arabic for finished.

Halas (ph)?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Halas (ph).

SADLER: Saddam Halas (ph)? Tikrit was not okay. Right, this is a roadblock. We don't know who they are. Go in. Little bit uncertain here. They're waving us on. Let's see who they are. It seems to be okay. No guns drawn. We're going to stop.

Right, they're saying don't film. So the camera down. We are now in Tikrit. But trouble is brewing, time to leave this city. It's gunmen unaware of imminent U.S. attack.

Checkpoint. Okay, that's gunfire. Okay, we've just come under attack -- under attack! We're OK, we're OK! Under fire. That confirms our worst fears. We have come under automatic machine gunfire.

Maria, Maria, are you okay?

Besides her flak jacket taking a bullet, our producer Maria Fleet was okay. Okay, saved for bullet riddled vehicles, a driver with a head wound, and shots that were too close for comfort on the day the U.S. Marines advanced on Tikrit.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SADLER: Anderson, that was about 20 hours ago. It already seems like a lifetime away. I'm thankful we're back here. This is one of the two vehicles that was shot up. At least six AK-47 rounds in this vehicle behind me.

And the latest reports we have from Tikrit is that the U.S. Marine Corps may have been trying to negotiate with the clan chiefs that could control the government of Tikrit to really hand over the city without a major battle over Tikrit. Still too early to say whether there's any chance of that happening -- Anderson?

COOPER: Brent, from last night, when we were talking, it seemed there were two different instances in which you came under fire. There was the time, the first time close to the checkpoint, and as you went through for the second time. And then a vehicle came alongside you. Can you -- do you know when the vehicle was hit, when Maria was hit?

SADLER: Well, we know the first hail of gunfire that you picked up on the live recording of those amazing scenes almost certainly those bullets pinged into this car here. And the -- on the right-hand window here, that's where one of the bullets slammed into iron work in the car, and then hit Maria Fleet on the back of her flak vest.

The second attack was from a, as you rightly say, a vehicle, a four wheel vehicle that four wheel drive vehicle that came up, blazing with pistols -- at least one pistol, and another machine gun. And it was then that one of our guards really we were very close to death at that stage, one of the guards that was traveling with us opened fire. And after that, the chase stopped.

So a really very narrow escape. And one wonders, of course, what sort of firepower the U.S. will have to use to really take over Tikrit, move in against that very well defended, it seems in the center of town, city.

But as you saw from the outside, what seems to be a total collapse of the conventional army in every sense of the word -- Anderson?

COOPER: All right, Brent Sadler, again, it is great to see you safe and sound. It was an extraordinary three hours or so of live television with you last night. Appreciate you joining us again this evening. You must be exhausted, get some rest. Thank you, Brent.

Matthew Fisher is joining us now. He is embedded with the 1st Marines in Tikrit.

Matthew, if you are there, what's the situation?

MATTHEW FISHER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I've just heard within the last five minutes that contact is light so far within the city between enemy forces and the Marines.

What happened was last night, there was a lot of contact yesterday. There was an engagement in which Marine air removed five tanks, Iraqi tanks that were on the move and were manned. That's extraordinary because most of the time during this war, so many of the tanks that have been blown up aircraft have been empty.

These were actually fighting vehicles going somewhere on a road. And then there was an engagement with Iraqi infantry. And at least 15, perhaps 20 Iraqis died in that engagement. They were killed by Marine mortars.

There were -- there was lots of air yesterday battles, and a little bit on the ground. But at 6:00 in the evening local, which is dusk, a very large Marine force again to move into the city. They hunkered down for the night. So we didn't hear much fighting on the ground.

But around midnight, the Marines opened with artillery. Bombs were dropped from aircraft, we understand, several Sam missile sites were taken out. And then there was a pause. The Marines did not go towards the heart of the city for the night. I'm told that in the last hour or so, they have begun to move again. I can't tell you how big the force is, except to -- in the most general terms. And I can say it's a very substantial force that has gone in. And they have -- what can only be described as massive air power supporting them. There are a tremendous number of Cobra helicopters on hand.

And above those helicopters, there is -- there are quite a few different aircraft mostly Marine F-18s, although last night it was Air Force F-16s that took out the Sam missile sites.

As I say, there's not been much contact reported in the last hour. I don't know exactly where the Marines are in the city right now. But I understand they're in quite a few different places. And presumably, the Iraqis are discovering this as they wake up this morning. I don't know about any negotiations. There could well be negotiations. There were, I understand in some other towns in this area, the last sort of bastion of Saddam Hussein's power. And it's a very small bastion, but I think that's all I can tell you now, except we hear an awful lot of aircraft in the air. We have all night. And right now, I can hear -- well perhaps you can too, a helicopter has just gone over our position where we are, in fact several helicopters.

COOPER: Well, Matthew, I know you are embedded, and therefore there are limitations on exactly what you can say. So I certainly understand that. I really just have two questions for you. If you can, give me a sense of what you see around you in terms of is there much damage from past fighting in the region? Do you see much artillery damage, any damage perhaps from coalition bombing?

FISHER: We saw some, not nearly as much as I expected. Again, this old pattern of abandoned tanks and armored personnel carriers on the part of the Iraqis could be seen on the approaches to Tikrit. There was this engagement in which the tanks were actually manned yesterday.

Not a great deal of damage. There certainly were a few buildings taken out. Some obviously very specifically. And I'm afraid I can't tell you who might have been in those buildings or why they were of interest to U.S. forces.

But not nearly as much damage as I would have thought.

COOPER: All right, Matthew Fisher, "National Post of Canada," appreciate you telling us what you can. Matthew Fisher in Tikrit.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(IN PROGRESS)

DAVID WILLIAMS, SR., RESCUED POW'S FATHER: ...this late hour of the night, but I also wanted to come to thank everyone that has sent up prayers for my son and the other POWs and all the thoughts. And the good wishes from the Orlando community has been outstanding. And we've received prayers from all over the world, e-mails from all over the people. So it goes to show you the power that prayer has. And our prayers were answered this morning when they found the seven POWs.

And I now want to make sure that we do not lose sight of the fact that we still have MIAs still missing. And we need to keep that same effort going forward for these MIAs, so their families can enjoy the same excitement that my family and my son's family is feeling at this time.

So again, I want to thank you for coming out, so that you can spread the word, so we can keep this up until all the MIAs are returned or know where they are. And two, hopefully that we'll have a quick end to this war so that all the other coalition forces can be with their loved ones, because there's nothing like being with your loved ones. As I just left and arrived tonight coming from Texas, as I was with my son's wife and two little ones, it was a great feeling, carrying this news with her presence, and be able to feel the positive signs of relief and knowing that he was well, and that he's looking forward to coming home.

So you all have any questions?

QUESTION: UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did you think, sir, when you saw him on TV for the first time?

WILLIAMS: Well, it's excitement knowing that he looks so good. He almost looked as good as when he was captured. So he seemed to be in good health.

QUESTION: What has this experience taught you about yourself (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?

WILLIAMS: My relationship with my son? I would say we're very close. I was always there for him, whether it would be through sports or through life in general.

He's a son that would make any father proud. Never in trouble. Made good grades in school. And he always focused and had a goal in life. And that goal in life, ever since he was five years old, was to become a pilot.

So we work together to come up with a plan to make it a reality. And of course, we all know he became an Apache pilot.

QUESTION: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

WILLIAMS: At first, I'm sure it'd be very tough for him. But knowing how strong he is, and his desire to fly again, that I'm sure once he's cleared by the medical doctors and the Army does a check on him, that he'll be back in the Apache.

As he -- as we mentioned before graduated from instructor school. So I'm sure he still has a goal to fulfill, and that's to teach other pilots how to fly the Apache.

QUESTION: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

WILLIAMS: Wait a minute, one at a time so -- over here, first, I think?

QUESTION: Has the military told you anything (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?

WILLIAMS: The military hasn't told me anything. I know that when he calls my -- his wife, this afternoon, he didn't have a lot of information as far as time. And of course, again, I've only heard bits and pieces on news reports that he might be going to Washington, D.C. at the Walter Reed hospital there.

But again, it's not confirmed that, because that could probably change depending on after they do the evaluation. QUESTION: What is one the first thing that you are going to say to him when you see him in that first moment?

WILLIAMS: First thing I would say to him, I'd give him a big hug and tell him how proud I am of him, and that I know that he did the best that he could while he was there, during this tough time.

QUESTION: You must've been obviously very excited, both you and Michelle, when you saw his picture no TV. But what was that moment like when you realized that's him and he's alive?

WILLIAMS: Well, that again is just -- reconfirms what you heard. As they say, pictures are worth 1,000 words, you know. We'd heard it over the telephone from the military that he had been rescued and that he was safe, but then when you actually see and know that he looks good and he's healthy, that just makes you feel that much better.

QUESTION: So Michelle received the phone call first and then you talked to him?

WILLIAMS: Right, correct.

QUESTION: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?

WILLIAMS: To a fact, yes. But I know that he was very solid when he went in. And before he went before deployment, because he always worked out and took care of himself.

So I'm sure he had plenty of time in between whatever they did to work out and keep himself mentally straight and strong.

QUESTION: What have you learned about after he was shot down, his efforts to evade Iraqi forces? I understood that he and Mr. Young were able to stay away from the Iraqis for a long while?

WILLIAMS: I have not heard anything. And maybe someday if he wants to talk about it, we'll talk about it. But he'll have to bring it up first.

QUESTION: Are you going to talk about the POWs (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?

WILLIAMS: I personally haven't, but my son's wife has talked to the Young's wife frequently.

QUESTION: How do you feel about the military communication that (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?

WILLIAMS: Well, we had an adviser. So we could constantly call someone to get updates if we wanted them. But then again, if the Army didn't have updates, they couldn't give them.

But they had the support there -- the support was there if you needed it.

QUESTION: How often did you talk to your adviser?

WILLIAMS: Personally?

QUESTION: Personally.

WILLIAMS: I didn't call my adviser.

QUESTION: You didn't call him?

WILLIAMS: Because I had a positive attitude, plus, I had my daughter-in-law. So I knew that she was going to get the information firsthand. And that way, I can call and talk to her, and get more accurate information.

QUESTION: Have you changed your outlook on the military at all? I mean, your son (UNINTELLIGIBLE) but what about yourself?

WILLIAMS: Well, Michelle had took the maternity leave to have her little girl. And right now, I'm sure that's up in the air if she'll continue flying or not, but she still has approximately I think three years left in the military. So I have plenty of time to...

QUESTION: When you and David get some time together, what's one of your favorite things you like to do with him as a father, son? And what is something you're looking forward to doing?

WILLIAMS: What I've always done is be there and just listen to his ideas. He's always brainstorming how he can make something better, how he can help someone. So I'll be a good ear and just listen.

QUESTION: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?

WILLIAMS: Probably they -- a lot of people had to have been touched by his kindness, his caring attitude, wanting to make sure that he can help someone become a better at what they do. And like in his case as a pilot and an instructor, then he can help them -- to possibly help them somewhere along the line in their corner.

QUESTION: Can your grandchildren understand what has happened to their dad?

WILLIAMS: I don't they totally understood, but the two year old, his son, can see his dad flashed on the screen. And he'd say, "Dada, daddy." And then we'd say, "Yes, daddy's coming home soon." And then you could just see him run around in a good mood.

And of course, the six months old, a little too young to know what's going on.

COOPER: You have been listening to David Williams, Senior, the proud father of Chief Warrant Officer David Williams, one of seven American POWs who we hope will be returning home soon, rescued today in Iraq.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK) COOPER: A very busy day of developments for U.S. forces in Iraq, including a firefight in central Baghdad. I want to get an overview now, so we're going to go to Jamie McIntyre standing by at the Pentagon.

Jamie, busy day, indeed.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Anderson. There was that firefight in downtown Baghdad outside the Palestine Hotel which is serving as the U.S. military headquarters and headquarters for media in the area.

But the real action has been to the north in Tikrit where U.S. Marines are launching an all-out assault on the city. They fully expect to take control of Tikrit sooner or later. At this point, they're not really meeting much in the way of organized resistance.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SADLER: ... following fires here out of Tikrit.

MCINTYRE (voice-over): If there was any question Saddam Hussein's home town of Tikrit was the last stronghold of his Baathist Party loyalists, it was answered when CNN's Brent Sadler ventured into the city in a convoy of media vehicles.

SADLER: Checkpoint. OK. That's gunfire. OK. We've just come under attack. Under attack. We're OK. We're OK. Under fire. That confirms our worst fears.

MCINTYRE: But Sadler also saw deserted vehicles in military installations, a clear sign that all but the most diehard defenders had abandoned their posts in the face of a U.S. Marine advance.

GEN. TOMMY FRANKS, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: When last I checked, this force was moving on Tikrit, and there -- and there was not any resistance.

MCINTYRE: While Tikrit appears on the verge of falling, the U.S. isn't close to declaring an end to what it calls Phase 3 combat operations.

FRANKS: Iraq's a large country, and so there are lots of places in this country where we have not physically had our soldiers. We know that there are pockets of foreigners in Iraq who have decided to fight for their -- to their last breath.

MCINTYRE: The U.S. still doesn't know the status of Saddam Hussein or most of the 55 top leaders pictured on playing cards distributed to U.S. trips.

Sources say one of Saddam's half-brother, Watban Ibrahim Hasan al-Tikriti, was captured trying to escape across the border to Syria where the U.S. fears other senior leaders may have received refuge at well.

RUMSFELD: We certainly are hopeful that Syria will not become a haven for war criminals or terrorists.

MCINTYRE: Saturday, the regime's top science adviser, General Amir Al-Saadi, turned himself in in Baghdad, insisting still that Iraq has no weapons of mass destruction and that he knew nothing of Saddam Hussein's fate.

BLITZER: Where is Saddam Hussein?

FRANKS: I don't know. He's either dead or he's running a lot.

MCINTYRE: The U.S. will soon begin to sift through the rubble left by an April 7 air strike that targeted Saddam Hussein and his sons.

BLITZER: Do you have DNA of Saddam Hussein and his sons?

FRANKS: Oh, of course. Of course.

BLITZER: You do?

FRANKS: Of course.

BLITZER: So you'll be able to confirm...

FRANKS: Of course.

BLITZER: ... make a positive confirmation if, in fact, he was in that building.

FRANKS: Well, unless -- unless remains were removed.

MCINTYRE: The U.S. also has a massive challenge to find chemical, biological, or nuclear weapons, which were the primary justification for the war. There have been plenty of false alarms and some promising leads, but, so far, no smoking gun.

FRANKS: You're talking about 2,000, 3,000 perhaps distinct places in this country where we know we're going to go and investigate each one of them.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE: General Tommy Franks is scheduled to make his first visit to Baghdad as soon as this week, about the same time that newly liberated Iraqis will be meeting in Nasiriya to start to sort out the transition from military -- U.S. military rule to civilian government -- Anderson.

COOPER: Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon.

Thanks very much tonight.

At the start of the day, I think everyone would have told you the big story today was going to be the push further into Saddam Hussein's home town of Tikrit, but it was what happened on the way to Tikrit that stole every headline today. Seven POWs rescued. U.S. forces had a little help and, let's say, a lot of luck to turn the dream of seven families into reality.

CNN's Wolf Blitzer takes us through the rescue.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): Good luck acted upon with lightning speed. It didn't begin as a rescue operation. U.S. Marine units were approaching Tikrit, preparing for the battle for that city. When a Marine reconnaissance battalion got to the nearby town of Samarra, a policeman asked them if they'd come for the prisoners.

RUMSFELD: Iraqis came up to American military and said that there are seven Americans at this location, and it was about, oh, six or eight kilometers south of Tikrit, and that you should go get them, and they did.

BLITZER: The Marines were led to a building in Samarra, guarded by Iraqi soldiers who'd been abandoned by their commanders. The prisoners were promptly handed over. Reporter Mathew Fisher of the "National Post" of Canada was in the area.

MATTHEW FISHER, "NATIONAL POST" OF CANADA: The Americans -- the Marines were astonished. They were taken and found the prisoners, and immediately they said they broke into tears. There was incredible joy.

BLITZER: As the news trickled out after 7:00 Eastern Time this morning, CNN's Bob Franken was among the first with word of the rescue and the prisoners' condition.

FRANKEN (voice-over): We have now confirmed the number is seven, and we also have new information -- and, as you can imagine, it's trickling out -- we are now told that two of them suffered gunshot wounds. We do not know the extent of the wounds.

BLITZER: The two wounded POWs were able to walk under their own power. All the former prisoners and their Iraqi guards were taken to Kuwait where they'll be debriefed.

The stark pictures of these seven young people have become familiar to us over the past three weeks. Two of them, Army Chief Warrant Officers Ronald Young and David Williams, were captured when their Apache helicopter went down south of Baghdad on March 24. The other five were from the now well-known Army 507th Maintenance Company, PFC Jessica Lynch's unit, based at Fort Bliss, Texas -- Sergeant James Riley, Private First Class Patrick Miller, Specialists Edgar Hernandez, Joseph Hudson, and Shoshana Johnson -- captured after their unit was ambushed near Nasiriya three weeks ago today.

Now the families of all seven finally seeing new pictures of their loved ones.

Wolf Blitzer, CNN, Dora, Qatar.

(END VIDEOTAPE) COOPER: We are just getting little bits of information right now about how the seven POWs were cared for, were treated over the last two weeks or so of their captivity. There's a -- going to be an article in today's "Washington Post" that I've just actually pulled off line.

Some of the details, some of the headlines from it just to bring to you right now -- we're going to have more on this coming up in the broadcast -- the captives were at one point stripped of their clothing, ordered to wear unwashed blue or yellow striped prison pajamas.

Two or three times a day, they were given water or tea, bowls of rice, bread, sometimes chicken. They slept on concrete floors. Guards were at first cruel, but the physical abuse largely subsided. The prisoners were called -- apparently, some of the soldiers with gunshot wounds even went -- underwent surgery.

This -- apparently, "The Washington Post" had some reporters, I believe, aboard one of the transport aircraft that were carrying the POWs.

Also, in "The Boston Herald," there's a quote from Shoshana Johnson who says, "We were a hot potato moved around six holding places in the last six days alone." She said, quote, "It was getting to the point where I believed they were going to kill us."

We're going to have a lot more on this coming up in the next hour or two.

As we said, in Baghdad, it has been a dangerous day, indeed. A firefight broke out with gunmen holed up in a building near the Palestine Hotel. Nic Robertson is in Baghdad tonight, has the latest on what's going on there -- Nic.

ROBERTSON: Anderson, that was about five hours ago. Marines who were guarding the Palestine Hotel where the vast majority of journalists in Baghdad are working took fire from a building about a hundred yards away. They responded with heavy machine gunfire, two long, extended bursts of heavy machine gunfire.

Eventually, the Marines were able to arrest three people who they found in the vicinity. It's not clear if the men arrested were the gunmen or were security workers at a neighboring building. But, certainly, they've been brought into Palestine Hotel, brought here for questioning by the Marines.

There's been a day as well where we've seen rising anger and frustration by the residents of Baghdad. Looting has continued. The values of -- items -- there are perhaps fewer items of value for looters to take from buildings here, but that doesn't seem to be stopping them.

We've seen them at a police academy, at the planning ministry, at the information ministry, at Iraq's television station. Pretty much whichever government building you go to that isn't guarded by U.S. Marines or Army -- and those are -- though like the oil ministry here -- the looters are going in freely to take what they will from those buildings.

The frustration and anger we're hearing from people here is that they do not have security.

We heard one woman say that she had been to talk to the Marines because her child was sick, she thought her child was dying, the hospitals aren't working, she'd asked for help, she said she couldn't get help from the Marines.

We heard another woman saying that her neighborhood wasn't safe, that men were coming to her house -- armed men were coming to her house at night and that she wanted protection from the police.

The police here are beginning to put some officers back on the street. There was a meeting about 24 hours ago where new emerging political leaders urged policemen, urged engineers, urged doctors to return to duty, and due today, a police force is expected to go out on the streets today. It's not clear how many officers will be there. They will be backed by U.S. Marines, U.S. Army.

Those policemen are supposed to gather at their training academy in a few hours time. Yesterday, that academy was completely deserted, apart from the looters, but this is perhaps -- and we'll have to judge this when we see it -- perhaps the first steps to restoring some sort of security about the city -- Anderson.

COOPER: Nic, we're just seeing some video of this meeting that was held -- an opposition figure holding a meeting, trying to get Iraqis organized. Are you -- are we seeing more and more of that, especially from the opposition who had been out of the country for so long? Are more of them coming and trying to sort of gather support to organize things a bit?

ROBERTSON: Certainly, people are returning to Iraq from outside of the country, people who have been out for many years, in some cases decades.

What we're hearing from people on the streets are they don't want outsiders -- Iraqis who've been living in exile for many years -- they say they don't want those people coming back to Iraq. They're not their leaders, they say, and, certainly, that's been the coalition's view, that there are political leaders who are in Iraq who have yet to emerge. They haven't been able to -- they haven't been able to come forward in the past because of the dictatorship run by Saddam Hussein.

But, nevertheless, people are returning. There was one religious leader returned to the religious city of Najaf a few days ago. He was murdered by people in that city. So it's not an easy situation they're coming into.

We have not seen many meetings by these officials yet, but we are likely to see more in coming days. There will be a meeting in An Nasiriya in south central Iraq in -- on Tuesday when many of these delegates are likely to attend perhaps the first and largest conference to designate or to move towards designating a new governorship, a new political order for the Iraqis -- Anderson.

COOPER: All right. Nic Robertson live in Baghdad.

Thanks very much, Nic.

More now with retired Colonel Mike Turner of the United States Air Force. He's in Colorado Springs, Colorado, tonight.

Colonel Turner, how do you try to integrate those Iraqi opposition forces? I mean it's one of the challenges, I suppose, that the U.S. military now faces, exactly who to brand a leader, who to rely on to try to organize local support.

TURNER: Well, absolutely, Anderson. And as the report showed, this is -- this is a really extraordinarily difficult process that the Iraqi people and, frankly, the United States is facing, and the coalition forces are facing right now.

The template that I have referred to numerous times over the last week or so is post-World War II Japan and Germany. If that's the template, then we can anticipate literally years of extensive U.S. involvement in this process.

This is a people that has no modern experience in democracy, who's just essentially lost a 30-year-old iron-controlling regime almost overnight, and this will require extensive involvement. We can't -- I don't personally believe that we can just leave them to their own devices and expect some sort of cohesive government to just flower forth out of nothing without planning some fairly significant seeds on our part and continuing to nurture those seeds and at least allowing them to establish some kind of roots over the next months and possibly years.

So it's a very difficult process, and I think you're -- the last report and you rightly hit the nail right on the head. We need to begin to decide who among the opposition leaders are we going to trust, who can be trusted, who has -- who will demonstrate in good faith a desire to take care of the Iraqi people and Iraqi society in a manner which will not, five years down the road, threaten the United States as much or more than the regime we just ousted.

So it's a very complex problem, and your reference to Haiti, I think, was probably also pretty accurate. There's a very good chance that this could take years and involve extensive U.S. participating.

COOPER: And, of course, the debate we're going to no doubt being hearing a lot more in the coming days and the days and perhaps even years is what role the U.N. should play in all of this.

Just from a military perspective, does the U.S. military -- "enjoy" is probably not the right word -- but feel comfortable in a peacekeeping role? I know they're training for it. I know there are courses for it, but, actually, doing it day in, day out for months on end, is it something they want to be doing?

TURNER: No. In fact, U.S. forces will do what they're ordered to do, obviously.

They flew Operation Provide Comfort over northern Iraq for 90 days after the war to protect the Kurds from the Iraqis, and I was the operations officer of that unit, and I remember when we got back after 90 days, it took us another 90 days as least to requalify our air crews in their basic combat mission because the missions in Provide Comfort were so benign and so unchallenging and routine. That's what peacekeeping operations do.

Now I was trying to recall the other day from my work in the policy planning branch of the joint staff, I believe -- and I could be wrong on this, but I believe that U.N. charter makes a distinction between peacekeeping and peacemaking, and I think peacemaking is Chapter 7 operations where you have to actually forcibly go in and create peaceful environments.

The U.N. is anathema to that kind of operation. They want a peace accord in place, a government in place, and they simply want to monitor the situation and maintain peace. We're not there yet. We may be a while away from that, and it's going to be problematic to bring U.N. forces in, if, in fact, the administration decides to allow that, until some sort of transition government is actually established and there's some semblance of order.

So it's a very, very difficult problem.

COOPER: All right. Colonel Mike Turner, appreciate talking to you always. We'll talk to you in a little bit.

Next on NEWSNIGHT, a lot more on the freed POWs and how their families reacted to their news. Also, we are just getting in right now a -- new information.

"The Washington Post" has a story in today's newspaper with some really startling details not only about the conditions under which these seven POWs but also some of the circumstances that led up to the capture of not only the two pilots but also the 507th -- those members from the 507th Maintenance Company.

So we're going to have some of those details when we come back.

Also, some thoughts about new challenges ahead from Katrina Vanden Heuvel, editor of "The Nation." We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: I want to spend some time talking about what may come next in Iraq and perhaps what needs to come next with two guests. In Washington, Ken Pollack of the Brookings Institution. He's an expert on Iraq and also a CNN analyst. And we're joined now in New York by the editor of "The Nation" magazine, Katrina Vanden Heuvel.

Welcome to you both. Thank you for being with us.

KATRINA VANDEN HEUVEL, EDITOR, "THE NATION": Thank you. COOPER: Ken, I want to start off with you. U.S. military will tell you there is still a war going on. Therefore, that is their top priority. But, obviously, the question of what happens now, what's going to happen in the coming days and weeks in terms of how order is restored and transition to some sort of other sort of regime is made -- that's the kind of question on a lot of people's mind. What role do you think the U.N. is going to play, should play in all of this?

KEN POLLACK, CNN ANALYST: Well, "is" going to play is an entirely different question. Let me stick to what kind of a role it should play.

I think the United Nations needs to be involved in a very major way in this operation. I'd like to see the United Nations take some kind of an umbrella role over it.

The U.N. is critical for a whole bunch of reasons. I'll just name two.

One, we've got to reassure the Iraqi people and the other -- the Arabs of the region that this is not an exercise in colonialism. So many of them think that the U.S. came to Iraq simply to colonize the country and steal their oil. Having the U.N. umbrella over it will make it so that they can have a degree of comfort in what it is the U.S. is doing there.

And, secondly, we need the U.N. there because we need as many countries as possible to participate in this operation, for their skills, their expertise, their resources, their armed forces. All of that will make a huge difference in getting this off on the right foot.

COOPER: Katrina, I assume, to a degree, you're going to agree with that. So let me just push it forward a little bit. Having spent time in Haiti or Cambodia where the U.N. have operated in these kind of roles, are they really able to do this successfully? I mean there was a lot of, you know, press about the U.N. taking over the Haiti operation. If you go to Port-au-Prince now, it's a mess. Can the U.N. do this?

VANDEN HEUVEL: Anderson, it's -- you know, it's the only international institution we have, and it's important to bring it in for international legitimacy.

I might add that, you know, the debate over the wisdom of this war, which was a war of choice, not necessity -- the main justification the administration gave us was that this country, Iraq, had weapons of mass destruction. So far, none have been found. And even if a cache is found, it's clear that these weapons have never posed an imminent threat to the United States.

The issue of the U.N. is important here because the inspections process under the auspices of the United Nations was working. It is crucial that the U.N. be brought back in if there are weapons of mass destruction found to give their imprimatur, to explain to the international community what they have found. Otherwise, no one 10 miles outside of Washington, D.C., or the Pentagon is going to believe what the United States ex -- says it has. So I think that's crucial.

I also think it's important -- we saw today, Anderson, the omens of what an American occupation might look like, the sniping. We've seen suicide bombings. We've seen the plundering and looting of a country of its museum, of its hospitals.

There is already ill will among the Iraqi people who ask where were the American troops who could have halted the plundering of a museum of historical treasures, where were they when they could have halted the looting of hospitals.

These are the very Iraqis America needs, the international community needs, if a stable regime in Iraq is going to be built post- Saddam.

The omens are not good right now, which is saddening to any American who believes that this war was fought to increase U.S. national security. I don't believe we're seeing that happen, and I think this war will undermine U.S. national security.

COOPER: All right. Ken, let's try to stay focused here on exactly what happens now, on the U.N. I think it was Tom Friedman who wrote, you know, this line you break it, you bought it. Does the U.N. -- or the U.S. have a responsibility, have an obligation to maintain order, to maintain control?

POLLACK: I think there's no question that the U.S. has not only an obligation but an interest in maintaining order and maintaining control. It is critical for the United States to rebuild a stable and prosperous Iraq.

That's important for the U.S.'s image. It's also important for U.S. security. You've got to remember Iraq is a critically important country in a critically important part of the world. The U.S. cannot afford to allow Iraq to slide into chaos...

COOPER: But it's...

POLLACK: ... and as a result...

COOPER: But, Ken, let me just ask you -- I mean how do you do that if, on the one hand, the Iraqis in the streets are yelling saying we don't want you here for long term and, on the other hand, you're saying, you know, the -- what you're proposing is a long-term operation.

POLLACK: That's where the U.N. comes in because I think that you're right that the U.S. is going to have to be there for a long- term presence, but the only way that we're going to be able to sell that long-term presence to the Iraqis, the only way that it's going to be palatable for them is if there is a U.N. imprimatur over the entire operation.

VANDEN HEUVEL: I...

COOPER: Katrina, your thought? VANDEN HEUVEL: I would -- I would say that it has to be more than a U.N. imprimatur, Ken. I think you need to bring the U.N. with a real financial, political capacity to really administer and reconstruct Iraq.

If this war, as this administration says, was a war of liberation, then hold this administration accountable, and the way to do that is to bring the U.N. in so it doesn't look like the U.S. and Britain are going to take the spoils of this country, and I think that's a real danger in the eyes of many Iraqis who see -- sadly who see America as an occupying force, and I think it's important for U.S. national security to not be perceived that way.

Look at the costs also for American -- the work -- the poor and the working people of America already face crumbling schools, institutions. Shouldn't there be an international reconstruction effort?

And if I might add just one point, any company that gets a contract to rebuild Iraq -- U.S. company -- it seems to me should be taxed 50-percent excess profit windfall...

COOPER: Wait. All right. Let's not get...

VANDEN HEUVEL: ... for war.

COOPER: All right. Let's try to stay focused.

VANDEN HEUVEL: They should be because this is also...

COOPER: Let me -- let me just jump...

VANDEN HEUVEL: ... going to be perceived in the Arab world...

COOPER: Let me just jump in here. Let me just jump in here.

VANDEN HEUVEL: ... as corporate profiteering.

COOPER: Let me just jump in here. I'm not -- I think you raise some interesting points. It would be interesting to see, if you talk to Iraqis, how France and Germany are perceived, especially after word, you know, that we've just received word from the...

I think it was the "San Francisco Chronicle" found these documents saying that Russia, at the same time that it was, you know, working the U.N. to stop this effort, was also -- apparently -- or some company in Russia was training members of the secret police from Iraq.

I want to join -- Colonel Mike Turner wanted to get in.

Colonel Turner, your thoughts?

TURNER: Well, we worked on an African crisis response initiative when I was in the Pentagon, and we ran into precisely this problem. The initial initiative was a U.S. proposed African crisis response force. The response we got overwhelming throughout Europe and Africa was you must involve the U.N.

Perception is a hundred percent of the game in the Middle East. It simply is not feasible for the United States unless it chooses to unilaterally try and affect substantive change in the perceptions of the Arab community in that region of the world, which I think would be almost impossible, to try and do that without the U.N. may feel good, but it simply is not a practical solution.

Ken is absolutely on target on this.

COOPER: All right. We're going to have to leave it there.

Katrina Vanden Heuvel, Ken Pollack, Colonel Mike Turner, appreciate it as always.

Our coverage of the war in Iraq continues, the best news of the day for the families of seven freed POWs, but, first, a break and the latest news headlines.

(NEWSBREAK)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: CNN's Bob Franken was in Iraq with the 24th Marine Expeditionary Unit this morning and was able to convince the people in charge to let the cameras roll as the rescued POWs arrived at the U.S. base. Quite a thing to witness. And Bob joins us now on the phone.

Bob, remarkable day. Remarkable images.

FRANKEN: It was a remarkable day, Anderson, and there's no question that the Marines are delighted that CNN was able to show this to the families, who, as we witnessed, as we watched the coverage throughout the day, were just ecstatic to see the loved ones that they had just held on to with such fragile hopes were, in fact, safe under these extreme circumstances.

Of course, they came bounding off of their helicopter just a couple of hours after they'd been rescued, showing that they were just elated to be free, as one might imagine. The five of them ran from the helicopter to the vehicle that was going to be taking them -- vehicle that would be taking them to a plane and then to Kuwait. In obvious good health.

Two others were not quite as robust. They were, in fact, barely able to make it without -- with help -- without help. But they were able to do it, and it turns out that they're in quite good health.

Now, of course, they are going to be debriefed and debriefed and debriefed, and then they're going to be on their way to freedom -- Anderson.

COOPER: Bob, how much advance word did you get that they were coming?

FRANKEN: Not a lot. Not a lot. I think we'd gotten some advance word that they'd been embargoed at first. Then I was told that they would not permit coverage. We had what I would call a vigorous discussion about that, and they changed their minds, and, as I said, the entire world got to witness a very, very happy story.

COOPER: Yes, it was remarkable and -- just a remarkable job all the way around. Bob Franken, appreciate you joining us. It's been a long day for you, no doubt. Thanks for spending time with us tonight.

I want to check in now with Peter Baker from "The Washington Post." There is an article in today's "Washington Post," which has really the first details of what happened to those POWs, both at what happened that initiated their capture and initiated their release and what their treatment was like at the hands of the Iraqis.

Peter Baker joins us now on the phone from Kuwait City.

COOPER: Peter, your article really does have the first details, but let's talk first about the 507th Maintenance Company. There was some question about how they got captured. What have you learned?

PETER BAKER, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Well, in talking with some of the prisoners who were released yesterday, they told us that they just basically took a wrong turn. They were traveling through southern Kuwait -- southern Kuwait -- excuse me -- through southern Iraq and suddenly found themselves in Nasiriya, which, by now, everybody knows was a shooting gallery at the time. Nobody really did.

Suddenly, they found themselves being ambushed, a hail of gunfire, RPGs everywhere, in front of them, behind them, to the right, to the left, one of the sergeants who was freed yesterday said they felt like they were Custer at Alamo.

COOPER: And that sergeant -- Sergeant -- I believe it was James Riley in the article who said that he was the senior -- the senior soldier on the scene. He is the one who actually decided to surrender the surviving troops. Is that right?

BAKER: Well, that's right. He said, look, there was no choice. Not only were they swarmed by Iraqi gunmen all around them, but their own weapons had jammed in the dust of the Iraqi desert, and they couldn't fire back. One of the -- a private first class was trying to shove rounds into his rifle one by one to fire off.

They weren't going to be able to win that, and so the sergeant made the judicious decision to order his troops to surrender. They threw down their weapons and put up their hands.

COOPER: Now Private First Class Jessica Lynch, who we all know was injured, was taken, I guess, to a hospital in Nasiriya. The others were taken to Baghdad. What was their treatment like? Where were they held?

BAKER: Well, when they were first captured, they were, you know, kicked and beaten some, some sticks against the back, and that sort of thing. But, after that, they said the physical abuse really subsided. It became more just mental torture in the way of not knowing what would come next. You know, any moment, they could be killed, they thought, by either their captors or really by even American bombs.

They were in the middle of Baghdad as it was getting pummeled from the air. One of the bombs hit 50 yards from the prison that they were in one night. So they were in a constant state of uncertainty, not knowing what could happen at any moment.

COOPER: And they were interrogated.

BAKER: They were interrogated, yes. Sometimes they had blindfolds on when they were interrogated. Sometimes they didn't. Sometimes the Iraqis played gentle inquisitor, which, of course, was just a way of trying to soften them up.

They asked them, you know, where their division was located, where were different units located, and then they asked them a lot of political questions -- why are you here in Iraq, why are you here killing our women and children, and that sort of thing.

COOPER: Did they speak of any abuse?

BAKER: No, they -- I even asked Shoshana Johnson, the Army specialist who was the only woman among the seven who were freed yesterday. She said that they treated her actually very well in a physical sense, that they didn't abuse her in any real way, and, in fact, because she was a woman, she believed they treated her a little more gently even than some of the -- her male colleagues.

COOPER: And some of the interrogators, it seemed, had actually seen some of their relatives on TV and sort of taunted them with that. What happened with that?

BAKER: That's right. That's right. They told, in fact, Shoshana Johnson that they had seen her mother on television talking about this, and, you know, you can only imagine how a prisoner would feel thinking about their parents worrying about them and going through the ordeal that their own families were going through back home. That could only have increased their anxiety.

COOPER: Now I was reading in your story, too, they had no idea what had happened to Private First Class Jessica Lynch, didn't know her whereabouts really until today when they were freed.

But then two other Americans appeared in the same prison where they were being held in Baghdad. So let's -- let's talk a little bit about those two. Those, of course, both chief warrant officers, those Apache pilots. Let's talk first about their capture. What happened when their Apache went down?

BAKER: Well, that's right. That's David Williams and Ronald Jones. They were among the pilots flying the first deep-strike Apache raid against the Iraqis early in the war. It turned out to be a disaster. They were met with just a storm of small-arms fire that basically shot up every Apache that went out.

There's is the one that was knocked down to the ground, though, and they suddenly found themselves on the run trying to escape the Iraqis who were chasing them. They dove into a canal and swam a quarter mile down, hoping to get away. Finally, they ended up being caught by farmers, who had assault rifles, waiting for them in a filed.

COOPER: Just remarkable. And then they were finally captured, brought to this place in Baghdad. Do we know -- was it a prison?

BAKER: The first place they were at seemed to be a prison. They were kept in individual cells that were in a concrete, cold building with a tin roof. After that, they were moved -- they stayed there about a dozen days, but then, as U.S. forces were advancing on the city, they were moved fairly rapidly.

Every couple of nights, they were moved to a house, to a government building, all over the place, seemingly as jailers were trying to basically get rid of them and pawn them off on somebody else. Nobody wanted to be caught by Americans holding their prisoners.

COOPER: And some of them -- at least in your article, Shoshana Johnson is quoted -- she underwent some surgery.

BAKER: Yes. Three of them, in fact, had been injured, gunfire wounds, and three of them underwent surgery by Iraqi doctors. They seemed healthy yesterday, but, obviously, American doctors are going to want to take a look at them, give them more -- a much more thorough examination and really check on the care that they've been given and see what they can do for them now.

COOPER: Were they able to communicate with each other during their captivity?

BAKER: Early on, they were kept isolated from each other and were chided when they tried to, you know, communicate with code or whatever. But as they were moved to other facilities, other homes, they were put in the same rooms more often. So, by the end, they were all together.

COOPER: Talk a little bit about what they told you just about each day, what it was like, what went through their minds, how they got through the days.

BAKER: Well, their days were, you know, filled with endless speculation and anxiety.

I -- they were fed two or three times a day with sort of a same -- you know, unappetizing portions of rice and pita bread and maybe a little chicken and so forth. They weren't allowed outside to exercise. They couldn't shower. They wore the same grungy pajama- like prison clothes 21 days on end without any change. It was a fairly, you know, dingy and dirty existence. And then at night, as the bombing seemed to get closer and closer, they just sat there and listened. They could hear the bombs as they got closer. One of them said they could even hear the shells of the A-10 Warthog on the building -- on the roof of the building that they were in.

COOPER: And they were moved around so much. I think you said in the last six days or so, they were moved like six different locations. Were -- why was that? Was that an organized plan, or did it -- according to them, did it seem like no one wanted to be caught holding the Americans hostage?

BAKER: I think they thought that people did not want them. They thought they were a hot potato.

One of them said we're, you know, the bastard children of Iraq, nobody wants us. Nobody -- if you're an Iraqi and the Americans are coming and they're going to take over, you don't want to be the last ones holding these guys.

So the last move, of course, was outside of Baghdad to Samarra, a town about 70 miles north of Baghdad, which is where the Marines found them on Sunday.

COOPER: And what did they say about their rescue?

BAKER: Well, it came as a complete shock to them. Suddenly, out of the blue, the doors are being kicked in, and they hear shouting, Marines are screaming get down, get down. Somebody then shouts out, if you're an American, stand up. So they did, and just like that, within two minutes, they were hustled out of the house, on to a helicopter, out of there.

COOPER: And just your take -- you were on the plane with them flying to Kuwait City. How did they seem to you? Were they laughing? Were they smiling? Were they sullen? What was your take?

BAKER: It was a mix of all of those things. They were laughing. They were thrilled to be out. As Bob said, they -- absolutely jubilant.

At the same time, you know, they just sort of veered back and forth into tears as they thought bout the experiences they had been in. One of them said, you know, I just kept thinking every morning, I would wake up, and I realized that I might not ever see my wife again, and he just started to cry.

So they're in a very, you know, fragile moment right now, a moment when it was all just being processed. The very first hours after being released when they were just starting to really get their bearings again and realize that, in fact, they had been saved.

COOPER: This really is the first concrete information we have gotten about what went on with these seven. What surprised you most? Of all the things you've learned in the last several hours, what surprised you? BAKER: I don't think I'd -- I wouldn't say surprised, but I am struck by their fortitude. They -- you know, they endured an extraordinary experience that would break a lot of us, and, you know, it sounds from their accounts that they stood up to it, and they've emerged from it, you know, able to move on.

COOPER: All right. Peter Baker, nice job of reporting.

The article is at "The Washington Post" on line right now. You can check it out.

Peter, thanks very much for joining us.

Coming up next, an exclusive interview with the sister of rescued POW Shoshana Johnson. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: ... being rescued.

Mind you this is a family that's already undergone quite a bit of stress when everything started happening last week with Jessica Lynch. You know, they rode this emotional roller coaster when they said that a soldier had been found. They had gotten their hopes up very high that perhaps that could have been Shoshana Johnson. It didn't turn out.

But a very emotional day. They didn't -- they were finally able to speak with Shoshana about 3:00 this afternoon, seven hours after given the official word, and Shoshana's reaction on the phone, when she finally got through at the house where the phone has been ringing off the hook all day, said, "What took you guys so long to answer?" She sounded -- her sister said she sounded a little frustrated.

I also talked to her about Shoshana's demeanor and how she sounded and whether or not her ordeal and her time in captivity -- if she sounded upset in any way, and her sister, Nikki, said that she's already joking about it, in fact that she had seen the images broadcast on television of her rescue.

And one thing she told her sister is that -- why did they have to show those pictures where my hair looked so bad. So Nikki Johnson says that if she's already kind of joking around that she's confident her sister will be able to pull through what has happened.

But this is a family dealing with a lot of emotions. They realize that what they -- the news they got today is a special gift, and not all of the soldiers in the 507th Maintenance Company and their families got the same news.

Take a listen to Nikki Johnson.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NIKKI JOHNSON, SISTER OF FORMER POW SHOSHANA JOHNSON: I mean I hope that the others -- those that are missing -- that their families can get what we have now, you know, to think about, you know, this time constructively, like what they're going to do when this person gets back, you know, and I just want to tell them to hold on, hold on, because we got ours back. You know, you can get yours back, too.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAVANDERA: Now Nikki Johnson says that -- the only thing that Shoshana shared about what happened on that early morning hour of March 23 was that Shoshana said she had thought she had done everything she was supposed to do, had gotten down on the ground and started trying to crawl out of the situation.

She said even doing that, she was shot twice in the -- in each leg. She was shot twice, once in each leg, and those were the wounds that she is heeling right now -- the physical wounds that she is heeling, but the family is confident that she looks to be fine, although her father did tell me a little while ago as well that in the images that he's seen so far, he could tell that the -- in his daughter's face, he could see that she was walking in pain.

Now the big news is when the Johnson family gets to finally see Shoshana, and that's still up in the air from the latest information I've been able to gather from them. They're still waiting exactly to see whether or not she'll be taken to Walter Reed Medical Center near Washington, D.C., or brought back here to the Fort Bliss, Texas, area.

So they're waiting to find out when exactly that will happen, but they anticipate they'll be able to see her in a couple of days -- Anderson.

COOPER: And, Ed, I don't -- you probably weren't able to hear our broadcast. Just a few moments ago, we were talking to Peter Baker from "The Washington Post" who was actually on the flight with Shoshana Johnson and the others.

He reporting that she had actually undergone surgery as well as three -- two other of the POWs -- surgery, I suppose, on the injuries to her feet. No doubt she will still be examined very closely by doctors for whatever else she needs.

But a great day for a lot of families all around the country this evening.

Ed Lavandera, thanks very much.

LAVANDERA: Sure.

COOPER: Coming up next on our continuing coverage of the war in Iraq, we're going to check in with the 101st Airborne as they continue their work patrolling the streets of Iraq, and there's a lot of work to be done. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: We want to go to -- now to CNN's Ryan Chilcote who is with the 101st Airborne. Ryan, what's the situation where you are right now?

RYAN CHILCOTE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, four American soldiers from the 101st Airborne Division wounded in combat yesterday, both Sunday night, actually, in an apparent ambush on them, as they were in the town of Mahmudiya.

They were clearing a police station -- clearing, actually, several buildings, one of them a police station, part of a larger operation that the 101st is engaged in in southern Baghdad and south of the city, to clear all establishments, all buildings that are associated with Saddam Hussein's regime. They're going into those buildings to both look for Iraqi fighters and also to look for weapons of which they're finding a lot of them.

Now I went through Mahmudiya about five days ago with a convoy from the 101st Airborne -- actually, the first convoy to enter into Baghdad from the 101st. It's just about 10 miles south of the city. It is just off the main artery that goes into southern Baghdad, Highway 8.

And I have to tell you it was a very eerie feeling. It is the only place -- it was the only place along the entire road where people that had lined the streets to watch the streets pass through were not cheering for them, were not applauding them as they went through.

And in the middle of the town -- it's not a very big town -- there were three T-72 Soviet-made tanks that had belonged to the Iraqis that were completely destroyed, and they were right in the middle of a residential district, and some of the buildings adjacent to those tanks had also been destroyed, and it was obviously the scene of some heavy fighting.

It is still a place where soldiers when they pass through -- and they do pass through that town quite a bit -- are very apprehensive. A soldier yesterday telling me every time he goes through Mahmudiya, he takes his weapon off of safety and puts it on to the ready so he's ready for anything -- any eventualities that might happen there -- Anderson.

COOPER: Ryan, any sense of the condition of the four who you say were injured in that town.

CHILCOTE: No word yet. I do know that they were MediVaced almost immediately. A friend of mine was in that area. He saw the MediVac helicopter and two ambulances on the scene.

There is an American base nearby, and we do know that they were evacuated from the area very quickly. but no word yet as to exactly how serious their wounds are at this point -- Anderson.

COOPER: Ryan, how much of the operations that the 101st are doing right now would be described as peacekeeping, how much of them are still offensive military operations or searching out pockets of resistance? CHILCOTE: I would say it's about 80-20. Eighty percent would be searching out at this point. They still -- you know, they have like a checklist, if you will. As I mentioned earlier, they have to go through all of these establishments that they think might in some way or another be related to Saddam Hussein's regime.

So they're going to go through all government buildings. They're going to go through all the residences of the senior Baath Party officials. They have to go through all those buildings. They -- they're going to go through all the schools. You ask why schools. Well, schools have been used throughout this conflict by the Iraqis as places to stash their weapons.

So they have to go through hundreds of buildings, and that takes a lot of time.

And then when they get through that -- and they're already doing a little bit of this now -- they're going to enter into this peacekeeping role that you were talking about.

For example, there is no electricity in southern Baghdad right now, and one of the things that the 101st is working on is getting that power plant running. Well, to get the power plant running, the head of the power plant has said you have to provide my plant with security because the looters will kill my employees when they come, if my employees come back to work, to come to steal things.

So they are finding themselves -- as they attempt to establish order and bring a little bit of normalcy back into life here in southern Baghdad, they're finding themselves in more and more of a peacekeeping role, but still they -- it's a matter of resources, and they have to transition from this job of going through all of these buildings, all of these regions in southern Baghdad to that peacekeeping operation -- Anderson.

COOPER: And just very briefly, in this town, Mahmudiya, that you talk about, it -- where there - were the people are not particularly receptive to seeing the 101st there, is there looting going on there?

CHILCOTE: There's looting going on throughout southern Baghdad and south of the city. It's pretty amazing. People grabbing pretty much anything they can.

And, you know, we're not -- the 101st has been in southern Baghdad now for five days, and I've had a chance to watch some of this looting, and really there's not a whole lot more to loot at this point.

Really what we're seeing a lot of is looting, quite frankly, of gasoline. That's one of the few things that people are still finding. They're looting -- they're stealing gasoline for their cars.

But they basically stripped most of the places where the looting is going on clean, and there's not a whole lot more to take.

COOPER: All right. Ryan Chilcote with the 101st. Thanks very much, Ryan.

More of our special of the war on Iraq right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: In our next hour, Iraqis take matters into their own hands and start cleaning up Baghdad. From policemen to the men who run the power plant, the effort to get Baghdad back on its feet. We're going to have that story and more on the recovery of the American POWs after a brief break and the latest news headlines.

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Aired April 13, 2003 - 22:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening from the CNN Center in Atlanta.
Ecstatic, jubilant, joyous, words we heard again and again today from the families and the friends of seven rescued POWs. For weeks, they have been living with unimaginable stress, as well as anxiety. Today, they and many of us simply could not stop smiling. As one dad put it, "this is the greatest day of my life," he said.

We are going to spend a lot of time tonight looking at how they were rescued, how they are, and hear from the families themselves. We begin tonight with an overview of what was a very dramatic day.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER (voice-over): Three weeks since they went missing in action, three weeks of waiting and wondering the fate of seven American POWs, five of from the 507th Maintenance Company and two Army Apache helicopter pilots were found alive today. And they were free.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So I told God, I said, "Lord, let my Joseph come home on my birthday or before my birthday, whatever it's going to be." I said, "Please." I said, "you know, just let my Joseph home," you know. And I'm so glad. Sometimes God is full of surprises.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On behalf of Secretary, I'm glad to let you know that your son has been found.

COOPER: It didn't matter if you a parent, a loved one, or a four star general, Sunday was a good day.

GEN. TOMMY FRANKS, CENTRAL COMMAND: I know they're in good shape. And I know they're in our hands and under our control now. And that's very good.

COOPER: CNN's Bob Franken reported live with an exclusive on the scene as the seven soldiers, two with apparent gunshot wounds, were airlifted out of the area.

BOB FRANKEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They were being held somewhere north of Samarra in Iraq when the officers and the unit that was holding them captive deserted. The junior members of that unit decided to help them become free. So they escorted until they ran into a Marine unit, a light armored unit, that was going up the road and turned them over.

COOPER: All seven had been released from a Kuwaiti hospital. And according to a spokesman, are on their way to Doha, Qatar.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I saw nothing that looked abnormal with any of them. And again, their spirits were great. They were just glad to be back, sort of, in American soil.

COOPER: It didn't take long for former POW and fellow 507th Maintenance Company soldier, Private First Class Jessica Lynch, to get word of today's rescue.

She continues her recovery at Walter Reed Hospital in the U.S. And her family issued this statement on her behalf.

"Our family joins America in rejoicing over the news and the safe return of seven brave heroes to U.S. custody in Iraq. To the families of these great troops, we'd like to offer you our assurances that they receive the best care imaginable."

BRENT SADLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Total abandonment, absolutely incredible. This is quite remarkable revelations. It seems that Tikrit's armed forces, the so-called last stand, have simply gone away.

COOPER: Other news Sunday, this time out of Tikrit, Saddam Hussein's hometown, the last city in Iraq not occupied by coalition forces.

CNN's Brent Sadler made the long journey into Tikrit and offered this initial report.

SADLER: The fact we're so close to Tikrit and we're seeing, you know, destroyed or abandoned military equipment leaves me to perhaps believe that Tikrit can't be that heavily defended.

OK, that's gunfire. OK, we've just come under attack, under attack.

COOPER: It turned out to be a very dangerous journey. As Sadler and his team left Tikrit, they came under fire.

SADLER: We're OK. We're OK.

COOPER: U.S. Marines battled pockets of resistance by Saddam loyalists in Tikrit. Air support was sent in to help. In an interview earlier with CNN's Wolf Blitzer, General Tommy Franks said this about Tikrit.

FRANKS: I wouldn't say it's over, but I will say we have American forces in Tikrit right now.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: And is there any resistance organized, military resistance?

FRANKS: When last I checked, this force was moving on Tikrit, and there was not any resistance.

COOPER: A U.S. spokesman told embedded reporters Marines destroyed five manned tanks earlier on the outskirts of the town, and engaged in a fierce firefight with an Iraqi infantry unit, killing at least 15.

Back in Baghdad, the looting continued and there was a late night firefight outside the Palestine Hotel in the center of the city.

But as CNN's Christiane Amanpour reported, the fighting and the looting seems to be on a smaller scale. And U.S. troops have set up round the clock patrols with the help, it seems, of some Iraqis.

New information released today about Saddam Hussein. No, he hasn't been found, but if killed, the U.S. says they'll be able to prove it because they have his DNA.

BLITZER: Do you have DNA of Saddam Hussein?

FRANKS: Oh, of course. Of course.

BLITZER: You do?

FRANKS: Of course.

COOPER: And if Saddam is alive, there's a possibility that he and other high ranking Iraqi leaders may be heading to Syria. Case in point, Saddam Hussein's half brother. Pentagon officials announced today the arrest of Watban Ibrahim Hassan al-Tikriti as he tried to flee to Syria.

It is a country the U.S. warns should not become a safe harbor for the Iraqi leadership.

DONALD RUMSFELD, U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: Iraqi -- senior Iraqi people have been moving into Syria. And some staying and some transiting. We certainly are hopeful that Syria will not become a haven for war criminals or terrorists.

COOPER: Sunday was a day where the war seemed closer to an end. But General Franks says he is not ready to claim victory just yet. There is still much more to do in Iraq, he says, still four Americans missing. The war goes on.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: It certainly does. We can imagine that last week was especially tough for the families of the POWs returned today. Hearing of the great success of the war, while their loved ones were still nowhere to be found. The father of Apache pilot Ronald Young said this, "He's worth waiting for, if I have to wait from now on."

Well, as it turned out he had to wait only a few more days. Susan Candiotti has been with the Young family and joins us now -- Susan?

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Anderson. As you point out, there were times in the last week alone since the fall of Baghdad when things just got a little bit too quiet for the Young family. They worried that there was no information about their son, especially after those bloody uniforms had been found.

But that worry quickly turned to joy this day, when news broke that seven POWs had been found.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a guy -- that's him, coming out...

CANDIOTTI (voice-over): Ronald Young's parents knew their son was free when they saw his picture on TV. Then the Army came to the door.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On behalf of Secretary of the Army, we want you to know that your son has been found.

CANDIOTTI: For three weeks, Ronald Young had been a prisoner somewhere inside Iraq. His mother could not believe how well he looked.

KAYE YOUNG, MOTHER OF RESCUED POW: He looked good. I couldn't believe he's running. He got that big grin.

ROBERT YOUNG, SR., FATHER OF RESCUED POW: Well look where he's at. I would be running, too.

CANDIOTTI: Young and fellow pilot David Williams were captured after their helicopter went down. Both were shown on TV. What will his father tell him when he gets back?

R. YOUNG, SR.: So proud of you, and I love you better than anything in the world, but don't scare me like that any more.

CANDIOTTI: Finally, a call from Ron in Kuwait.

K. YOUNG: Hey, Ron!

R. YOUNG, SR.: Oh!

K. YOUNG: Everybody's here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, my God!

` K. YOUNG: No, how are you? Well, we're just having a party for you. Why aren't you here?

CANDIOTTI: The call lasted five minutes.

K. YOUNG: I can't wait to hold you. When I see you, we're just going to sit and hug about 30 minutes.

CANDIOTTI: When Ron Young's father began talking, his mother's emotions took hold.

Young said he lost weight, at least 20 pounds as a POW, but didn't reveal much more about his captivity. K. YOUNG: I asked him how he was treated. And he said that he was treated well the last two or three days. They met up with some people that treated them good, but he said in the beginning, it wasn't too great.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CANDIOTTI: Of course, the parents would love to learn more details, but they realize now is not the time. Soon they know that time will come at their son's pace. For now, they're looking forward to reuniting with their son, Ronald Young, in Washington, hopefully, before the week is up -- Anderson?

COOPER: And what a reunion that will be for that family and all the others. Susan Candiotti, thanks very much.

It is of course safe to say we think that the family of David Williams must've begun to fear that the 24th of March might forever be a black and haunting date to them. That was the day Chief Warrant Officer Williams went missing with another soldier, after their Apache helicopter went down.

But now, glad to say the Williams family has another date to remember. Today's date, and this date joyfully cancels out the other ones.

CNN's Jamie Colby has been with the Williams family -- Jamie?

JAMIE COLBY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And that, Anderson, is an understatement. I was on the phone with Michelle Williams this morning, when she saw the first pictures of her husband David. And she squealed with delight, "That's David, that's David."

She said he looks well. And then this afternoon, she -- Michelle, a Black Hawk helicopter pilot herself, had a 10 minute phone conversation with her husband and he said he sounds strong and feels well as well.

She doesn't when she'll be reunited. And she is anxiously awaiting news of when she can go and join her husband. In the interim, she has been making videos of their two beautiful children, two year old Jason and six month old Madison, to take with her, to show him the children.

It has been a trying time, not only for Michelle, but also for everyone here in Killeen. This is a military town. Fort Hood is located right here. Their home base, both of them worked at the base. And the community has really rallied, Anderson. There's a POW flag and a monument in front of their house now. Everybody has sent their prayers. And we also had a chance to speak with David's father. He was at the airport when we arrived in Killeen this afternoon on his way home to Florida. He told us that he knew the strength and faith that his son had would get him through this difficult time.

Michelle Williams with a big smile tonight has asked that she be left alone with family to savor the moment she's waited for for so many days. And now she has reason to celebrate -- Anderson?

COOPER: She certainly does at that. Jamie Colby, thanks for that report.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: As we said, it has been a dangerous day in Baghdad. A firefight broke out with gunmen holed up in a building near the Palestine Hotel. More danger as U.S. forces continue to struggle with restoring order in that city.

Nic Robertson is in Baghdad tonight and has the latest on what's going on -- Nic?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, hello. Well, that was the situation developed about 4.5 hours ago. Snipers in a building close to Palestine Hotel took pot shots at Marines, who are providing security here. The Marines have returned fire with heavy machine guns. Two long extended bursts, red trace surrounds, flying off to the location, about 100 yards away from the positions that they've taken up around this building.

Shortly after, they arrested -- the Marines arrested there men. It is not clear if these men were the snipers or that they were providing security for a neighboring building, but certainly the Marines have brought them in for questioning and will be looking at the -- looking perhaps a little more closely at the security at some of the buildings very, very close to this Palestine Hotel, which is home at this time to several hundreds of journalists covering the situation in Baghdad.

And one of the reasons that this is the only hotel journalists will stay in is because the other large hotels in the city have either been looted or looted and burned at this time. The looting does still continue. Perhaps the looters able to haul away things of less value, but the anger and frustration in the community here because of the lack of security at this time is really palpable.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON (voice-over): Straining under the weight of shabby furnishings, a car full of looters pulls away from a government ministry. Apparently slim pickings not put plunderers off.

"I have no money," says Samir, "no furniture in my house. I don't have a pot to cook in, but now I do."

Inside Iraq's television station, a similar story. Looters searching harder to get the good stuff.

Among this band of would-be rip-off merchants, frustration and anger setting in. "We are living in anarchy and chaos," says Ali. "Before with Saddam, at least we could sleep peacefully. We need protection."

Father of eight, Jihad shows his military pension card. All the records are gone, he says. Where can I get money to feed my family?

None will admit to looting, but as we stand talking, goods gradually fill the trolley behind us, ready to be carted off.

(on camera): This office is typical of what we're finding around Baghdad in the government buildings. Everything has been looted that seems to be just about of any value to the people. This is another videotape, but it wouldn't be useful to anyone at home. This wouldn't work in a home VCR.

(voice-over): Unarmed and out on the streets, policemen talk confidently of tackling the often toting looters.

GEN. ALI TAHA, POLICE OFFICER: We could do everything. The citizens know how powerful the police are. We can lessen the chaos and control it.

ROBERTSON: Across the road, Assim angrily doubts the claim. They do this just for the cameras, he says. It's a lie. As we stopped to listen, a crowd gathers, pouring out their grievances.

Emotions are raw and we are barraged with a plethora of concerns. "My baby is dying," says Layla. "I told the U.S. soldiers, but they don't care."

"Saddam was as dog," this man screams, "but if the Americans don't help, we will revolt."

"Armed men are coming to my house and attacking my girls," pleads Najat. "I came here to tell the press."

Most say they are appealing to journalists, because they don't know where else to go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have a question with that was any place to ask about a missing people, because we have a lot of people. And our people, they are missing in the town.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No one know what will make -- what you will do. This is the problem. We must know our future. What will we eat tomorrow?

ROBERTSON: In a tense crowd, Najat calls out to the lone policeman. "I want to see you in our neighborhood." "This is a catastrophe for you and us," he says. "And God willing, we'll overcome it.

As he leaves, the crowd echoes his words, "En Shallah." With God's grace, a well worn phrase here, speaking more to hope than certainty.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON: Now the hope is that there will be a police force out on the streets. And steps are beginning to take place to put that in place. There was a meeting here a little less than 24 hours ago with some of the new political faces beginning to appear in Baghdad, appealing not only to the policeman to come back to work, but also to doctors and engineers to try and get these key people back to provide security, to provide electricity, to provide healthcare, to provide the basics essentially of what the people of Baghdad want at the moment. And this being supported by the U.S. Marines and by the U.S. Army at this time. In a few hours' time, the police, at least those who are willing to report for duty in any numbers, are expecting to gather at their academy. They would divide the city up into different areas, and they will begin their work -- Anderson?

COOPER: Nic, what is the perception of the police in Baghdad? I mean, are they seen with as much fear as the secret police, for instance, were seen in that city?

ROBERTSON: Nobody here is any doubt about how brutal some of the police were, about how even just lowly traffic cops, if you will, would extort bribes from people for even running a red light, for having a faulty indicator.

So there is a lot of animosity towards the police. Nobody here feels that the police are good particularly good people.

What they do feel is that they need something, and really they have no one else to turn to as this time, other than the police. And it's clear that there will likely be a lot of -- that animosity will likely continue for some time, but people here are so frustrated, so angry, that they will at this time, accept anybody.

However, if they were to see senior officials who they know are tainted by association with the regime, are tainted by past actions, then that will make that animosity grow very quickly, Anderson.

COOPER: All right, Nic Robertson, live in Baghdad. Remarkable days there. Thanks very much.

We're going to check now with Colonel Mike Turner, who is our military expert with us tonight, as he was last night. And Colonel Turner hopefully tonight will be a little less eventful than the last night. You and I watched Brent Sadler traveling around Tikrit in an extraordinary three hours or so of live TV.

Colonel Turner, as you look as those images in Baghdad, it's a tricky proposition. I guess you got to use the police to -- they are an institution that they are, and that the personnel are still there, but as Nic said, they're often despised?

COL. MICHAEL TURNER, (RET.), U.S. AIR FORCE, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, absolutely, but this will occur in layers. Right now, we'll use what we have. I suspect our forces have been trained in this sort of a hand-off. And they will monitor the situation fairly closely.

I think we've had some indications in the last day or two that the looting is beginning to subside. It's certainly still fairly widespread, but it doesn't appear to be quite as intense as it was a few days ago. And if we can begin now to just have some visible manifestation of authority, I think that the looting will really tend to decrease fairly substantially.

As the report that we just heard suggests though, that the Baghdad police force is not held in particularly high regard in the civilian population. They're an interim measure.

Within a week of the Battle of Baghdad, essentially to begin to take steps to quell these -- the looting and bring some sort of order back in. And I think what we'll begin to see is we will see replacements for the local police force. They'll be monitored very closely. And then we'll begin to see that they'll be subsumed by some larger neutral constabulary that'll move into the Baghdad area over the days and weeks ahead.

So I think it's a step in the right direction, but you're absolutely right. We need to be very cautious about the use of the local police.

COOPER: Yes, you say days and weeks ahead, but I mean I think back to Haiti after the U.S. basically went in there, after Raoul Cedras left the country, I remember going back for years doing stories on the retraining of the Haitian police force, first with U.S. police officers, then international police officers. And they never got it together.

I mean, you go to Haiti now, it's still chaos. It's a difficult thing to do, though, to rebuild a police force.

TURNER: It's extraordinary complex and lengthy and difficult. And I don't know what the administration's plans are for how to do this in post war Iraq. I'm absolutely certain that some agencies and experts who have sat down and thought through this entire process, obviously we're going to have to figure out how to integrate the U.N. or agencies like the U.N. to begin to build this constabulary.

So what you might see is initially the Iraqi police force. And then fairly quickly, they will be subsumed as a subset of some larger probably American transitional constabulary. And that will then be handed off to some neutral constabulary from an agency, from one of the member nations of the United Nations, or perhaps some other agency.

And you're right. I suspect that this sort of interim order and rule of law measures that they're going to try and put into place will take -- could very easily take years. And that of course, is the big unknown. And how much will the U.S. become involved in that fairly lengthy and complicated process?

And if Haiti was difficult, you can just imagine a country the size of Iraq, how hard that would be.

COOPER: All right Colonel Mike Turner, you're going to be with us all evening long. We'll check in with you in a little while.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Well, Athol of Jane Riley of Pennsauken, New Jersey had been with us yesterday. We had been talking with them about the heartbreaking difficulty of their situation, being parents of a young soldier still missing in Iraq.

Now wonderful to say, we can talk instead about how it feels to know that their son, Sergeant James Riley, is safe and free and well.

Mr. and Mrs. Riley, thanks for being with us. We are very glad to see you under these circumstances. Let me start with you, Mr. Riley. Your day, how did you feel?

ATHOL RILEY, FATHER OF FORMER POW: Well, it's been very busy day. It started off at 10:00 this morning. And it still hasn't stopped.

We would like to thank everybody that's been involved, the government, the service people, maybe other foreign governments that we don't about that were involved, the Iraqi people, who were perhaps some of the most important, and the military. They have a program that's -- I believe is just newly instituted, and has been excellent with it being here.

COOPER: Mrs. Riley, sorry, was there every moment, Mrs. Riley...

JANE RILEY, MOTHER OF FORMER POW: Yes?

COOPER: When you lost hope?

J. RILEY: No, never. Never lose hope or faith. And we've had a lot of people who've been praying with us around the world and everywhere that I'd like to thank for all their prayers and hope they continue for praying for the rest of the missing, and that we get them all home, too.

COOPER: Yes, there are four Americans still listed as missing in action. I'm glad you mentioned that.

J. RILEY: Yes.

COOPER: If you can, take us back over the last couple weeks. I mean, what is it like, the day to day not knowing? I imagine there are days where hopes are raised and then hopes are dashed? Mrs. Riley, if you can, just talk about it a little bit?

J. RILEY: Our faith kept us, that you know, he would come back to us. And we tried not to listen to the news too much, because there's too much being said that in the end doesn't pan out. And you just take it day by day and the people around you give you the support you need and the prayers and just help you, sustain you, and get you going.

COOPER: How did you get word today? How did you first find out about it?

J. RILEY: Athol?

A. RILEY: Well, the first thing we wake up to a clock radio that's set to KYW in Philadelphia. And that's an all news station. It went on at 7:00 this morning. And one of the first things that we heard when it went on was that some POWs or MIAs had been rescued.

Simultaneous with that, the phone rang. And it was Major Banks, the casualty officer, to tell us that that was correct. At that time, he didn't know whether our son was part of that or not.

So we continued to get dressed and go to church for Palm Sunday service. And then when we came home, he arrived to tell us that yes, indeed, our son was part of the group that was rescued.

COOPER: I assume by this point, Mrs. Riley, you have talked to him, you have seen the pictures no doubt. How does he look? How does he sound?

J. RILEY: He sounded all right. We had a couple of pictures we saw. He didn't look too bad considering. And he didn't sound too bad considering, really.

We had the unfortunate task of telling him that his sister had passed away, because he asked how she was doing, because he knew she was ill. And he also asked after his other sister. And also stated he didn't want to see rice or chicken again. And I guess that's what they fed them.

But he didn't state anything about how they treated or anything more informative. It was really just a hello, I'm alive, I'm well and I'll see you kind of conversation.

COOPER: What do you intend to -- sorry, go ahead.

A. RILEY: He said he was very tired and his mind was going a mile a minute.

COOPER: Yes, I can't even imagine. What do you intend to feed him, if not rice and chicken when he returns?

J. RILEY: When the military allows us to see him. And we don't know when that will be. We'll find out with the rest of you, probably.

COOPER: All right, well Mr. and Mrs. Riley, it has been a long day. I'm sure an exhausting day, a happy one. And we appreciate you spending time with us this evening, Athol and Jane Riley. Thanks very much.

(NEWSBREAK)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Well, last night, if you were with us, about midnight Eastern time, you got to take an amazing ride through what was thought to be Saddam Hussein's last remaining stronghold, Tikrit. We took that ride last night with CNN's Brent Sadler who joins us now in Erbil to reveal what he saw, and more than that, what he encountered on the way out, quite a scary thing to happen. Brent, it is nice to see you safe and sound?

BRENT SADLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, indeed, it feels very good to be here, Anderson, in the safety of northern Iraq back at our home base, our hotel here.

Just to turn the clock back a little bit and give you some new information, U.S. Marines have moved on Tikrit. Tikrit, that city fortress, where Saddam Hussein comes from originally. And it's worth noting in this report that many of the people most wanted on that list that the U.S. has published hail from Tikrit. Tikrit really the hometown of many of Saddam Hussein's top loyalists.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SADLER (voice-over): The road to Tikrit, targeted by air strikes, preparing for an armored assault by U.S. Marines. We approached the city's outskirts in the hours before the Americans arrived.

So we're going through this gate now. This is the southern entrance to Tikrit. Even as the Marines were moving towards the city, we discovered that many of Iraq's soldiers had fled, their armor abandoned in a hurry.

(on camera): Extraordinary, the hatch is open. The machine gun obviously working. Bullets in the bridge. The hatch open here. It seems that Tikrit's armed forces, the so-called last stand, have simply gone away where three, four miles I guess from the center of Tikrit, this would have been a well defended position, dug out ABCs all along away this area.

No troops, they're gone. This is under a cover with no damage. Look. That tank is intact. Crews long gone.

(voice-over): Now you wouldn't know from the highway that this compound here, it's very large barracks. It was basically in such a shocking state of neglect and disrepair and collapse.

Look, this whole place is a scrap yard. This area around here is lined with very large storage facilities. And you'll see a lot of them have been blasted by coalition air strikes.

I would say there are hundreds of armed vehicles in this area, this vast military complex as we slowly inch our way through it.

On the turnoff to Tikrit, we encounter a lorry driver who said he knew what was happening inside the city. He told us that Tikrit was okay, and that Saddam Hussein was halas (ph), Arabic for finished.

Halas (ph)?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Halas (ph).

SADLER: Saddam Halas (ph)? Tikrit was not okay. Right, this is a roadblock. We don't know who they are. Go in. Little bit uncertain here. They're waving us on. Let's see who they are. It seems to be okay. No guns drawn. We're going to stop.

Right, they're saying don't film. So the camera down. We are now in Tikrit. But trouble is brewing, time to leave this city. It's gunmen unaware of imminent U.S. attack.

Checkpoint. Okay, that's gunfire. Okay, we've just come under attack -- under attack! We're OK, we're OK! Under fire. That confirms our worst fears. We have come under automatic machine gunfire.

Maria, Maria, are you okay?

Besides her flak jacket taking a bullet, our producer Maria Fleet was okay. Okay, saved for bullet riddled vehicles, a driver with a head wound, and shots that were too close for comfort on the day the U.S. Marines advanced on Tikrit.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SADLER: Anderson, that was about 20 hours ago. It already seems like a lifetime away. I'm thankful we're back here. This is one of the two vehicles that was shot up. At least six AK-47 rounds in this vehicle behind me.

And the latest reports we have from Tikrit is that the U.S. Marine Corps may have been trying to negotiate with the clan chiefs that could control the government of Tikrit to really hand over the city without a major battle over Tikrit. Still too early to say whether there's any chance of that happening -- Anderson?

COOPER: Brent, from last night, when we were talking, it seemed there were two different instances in which you came under fire. There was the time, the first time close to the checkpoint, and as you went through for the second time. And then a vehicle came alongside you. Can you -- do you know when the vehicle was hit, when Maria was hit?

SADLER: Well, we know the first hail of gunfire that you picked up on the live recording of those amazing scenes almost certainly those bullets pinged into this car here. And the -- on the right-hand window here, that's where one of the bullets slammed into iron work in the car, and then hit Maria Fleet on the back of her flak vest.

The second attack was from a, as you rightly say, a vehicle, a four wheel vehicle that four wheel drive vehicle that came up, blazing with pistols -- at least one pistol, and another machine gun. And it was then that one of our guards really we were very close to death at that stage, one of the guards that was traveling with us opened fire. And after that, the chase stopped.

So a really very narrow escape. And one wonders, of course, what sort of firepower the U.S. will have to use to really take over Tikrit, move in against that very well defended, it seems in the center of town, city.

But as you saw from the outside, what seems to be a total collapse of the conventional army in every sense of the word -- Anderson?

COOPER: All right, Brent Sadler, again, it is great to see you safe and sound. It was an extraordinary three hours or so of live television with you last night. Appreciate you joining us again this evening. You must be exhausted, get some rest. Thank you, Brent.

Matthew Fisher is joining us now. He is embedded with the 1st Marines in Tikrit.

Matthew, if you are there, what's the situation?

MATTHEW FISHER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I've just heard within the last five minutes that contact is light so far within the city between enemy forces and the Marines.

What happened was last night, there was a lot of contact yesterday. There was an engagement in which Marine air removed five tanks, Iraqi tanks that were on the move and were manned. That's extraordinary because most of the time during this war, so many of the tanks that have been blown up aircraft have been empty.

These were actually fighting vehicles going somewhere on a road. And then there was an engagement with Iraqi infantry. And at least 15, perhaps 20 Iraqis died in that engagement. They were killed by Marine mortars.

There were -- there was lots of air yesterday battles, and a little bit on the ground. But at 6:00 in the evening local, which is dusk, a very large Marine force again to move into the city. They hunkered down for the night. So we didn't hear much fighting on the ground.

But around midnight, the Marines opened with artillery. Bombs were dropped from aircraft, we understand, several Sam missile sites were taken out. And then there was a pause. The Marines did not go towards the heart of the city for the night. I'm told that in the last hour or so, they have begun to move again. I can't tell you how big the force is, except to -- in the most general terms. And I can say it's a very substantial force that has gone in. And they have -- what can only be described as massive air power supporting them. There are a tremendous number of Cobra helicopters on hand.

And above those helicopters, there is -- there are quite a few different aircraft mostly Marine F-18s, although last night it was Air Force F-16s that took out the Sam missile sites.

As I say, there's not been much contact reported in the last hour. I don't know exactly where the Marines are in the city right now. But I understand they're in quite a few different places. And presumably, the Iraqis are discovering this as they wake up this morning. I don't know about any negotiations. There could well be negotiations. There were, I understand in some other towns in this area, the last sort of bastion of Saddam Hussein's power. And it's a very small bastion, but I think that's all I can tell you now, except we hear an awful lot of aircraft in the air. We have all night. And right now, I can hear -- well perhaps you can too, a helicopter has just gone over our position where we are, in fact several helicopters.

COOPER: Well, Matthew, I know you are embedded, and therefore there are limitations on exactly what you can say. So I certainly understand that. I really just have two questions for you. If you can, give me a sense of what you see around you in terms of is there much damage from past fighting in the region? Do you see much artillery damage, any damage perhaps from coalition bombing?

FISHER: We saw some, not nearly as much as I expected. Again, this old pattern of abandoned tanks and armored personnel carriers on the part of the Iraqis could be seen on the approaches to Tikrit. There was this engagement in which the tanks were actually manned yesterday.

Not a great deal of damage. There certainly were a few buildings taken out. Some obviously very specifically. And I'm afraid I can't tell you who might have been in those buildings or why they were of interest to U.S. forces.

But not nearly as much damage as I would have thought.

COOPER: All right, Matthew Fisher, "National Post of Canada," appreciate you telling us what you can. Matthew Fisher in Tikrit.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(IN PROGRESS)

DAVID WILLIAMS, SR., RESCUED POW'S FATHER: ...this late hour of the night, but I also wanted to come to thank everyone that has sent up prayers for my son and the other POWs and all the thoughts. And the good wishes from the Orlando community has been outstanding. And we've received prayers from all over the world, e-mails from all over the people. So it goes to show you the power that prayer has. And our prayers were answered this morning when they found the seven POWs.

And I now want to make sure that we do not lose sight of the fact that we still have MIAs still missing. And we need to keep that same effort going forward for these MIAs, so their families can enjoy the same excitement that my family and my son's family is feeling at this time.

So again, I want to thank you for coming out, so that you can spread the word, so we can keep this up until all the MIAs are returned or know where they are. And two, hopefully that we'll have a quick end to this war so that all the other coalition forces can be with their loved ones, because there's nothing like being with your loved ones. As I just left and arrived tonight coming from Texas, as I was with my son's wife and two little ones, it was a great feeling, carrying this news with her presence, and be able to feel the positive signs of relief and knowing that he was well, and that he's looking forward to coming home.

So you all have any questions?

QUESTION: UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did you think, sir, when you saw him on TV for the first time?

WILLIAMS: Well, it's excitement knowing that he looks so good. He almost looked as good as when he was captured. So he seemed to be in good health.

QUESTION: What has this experience taught you about yourself (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?

WILLIAMS: My relationship with my son? I would say we're very close. I was always there for him, whether it would be through sports or through life in general.

He's a son that would make any father proud. Never in trouble. Made good grades in school. And he always focused and had a goal in life. And that goal in life, ever since he was five years old, was to become a pilot.

So we work together to come up with a plan to make it a reality. And of course, we all know he became an Apache pilot.

QUESTION: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

WILLIAMS: At first, I'm sure it'd be very tough for him. But knowing how strong he is, and his desire to fly again, that I'm sure once he's cleared by the medical doctors and the Army does a check on him, that he'll be back in the Apache.

As he -- as we mentioned before graduated from instructor school. So I'm sure he still has a goal to fulfill, and that's to teach other pilots how to fly the Apache.

QUESTION: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

WILLIAMS: Wait a minute, one at a time so -- over here, first, I think?

QUESTION: Has the military told you anything (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?

WILLIAMS: The military hasn't told me anything. I know that when he calls my -- his wife, this afternoon, he didn't have a lot of information as far as time. And of course, again, I've only heard bits and pieces on news reports that he might be going to Washington, D.C. at the Walter Reed hospital there.

But again, it's not confirmed that, because that could probably change depending on after they do the evaluation. QUESTION: What is one the first thing that you are going to say to him when you see him in that first moment?

WILLIAMS: First thing I would say to him, I'd give him a big hug and tell him how proud I am of him, and that I know that he did the best that he could while he was there, during this tough time.

QUESTION: You must've been obviously very excited, both you and Michelle, when you saw his picture no TV. But what was that moment like when you realized that's him and he's alive?

WILLIAMS: Well, that again is just -- reconfirms what you heard. As they say, pictures are worth 1,000 words, you know. We'd heard it over the telephone from the military that he had been rescued and that he was safe, but then when you actually see and know that he looks good and he's healthy, that just makes you feel that much better.

QUESTION: So Michelle received the phone call first and then you talked to him?

WILLIAMS: Right, correct.

QUESTION: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?

WILLIAMS: To a fact, yes. But I know that he was very solid when he went in. And before he went before deployment, because he always worked out and took care of himself.

So I'm sure he had plenty of time in between whatever they did to work out and keep himself mentally straight and strong.

QUESTION: What have you learned about after he was shot down, his efforts to evade Iraqi forces? I understood that he and Mr. Young were able to stay away from the Iraqis for a long while?

WILLIAMS: I have not heard anything. And maybe someday if he wants to talk about it, we'll talk about it. But he'll have to bring it up first.

QUESTION: Are you going to talk about the POWs (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?

WILLIAMS: I personally haven't, but my son's wife has talked to the Young's wife frequently.

QUESTION: How do you feel about the military communication that (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?

WILLIAMS: Well, we had an adviser. So we could constantly call someone to get updates if we wanted them. But then again, if the Army didn't have updates, they couldn't give them.

But they had the support there -- the support was there if you needed it.

QUESTION: How often did you talk to your adviser?

WILLIAMS: Personally?

QUESTION: Personally.

WILLIAMS: I didn't call my adviser.

QUESTION: You didn't call him?

WILLIAMS: Because I had a positive attitude, plus, I had my daughter-in-law. So I knew that she was going to get the information firsthand. And that way, I can call and talk to her, and get more accurate information.

QUESTION: Have you changed your outlook on the military at all? I mean, your son (UNINTELLIGIBLE) but what about yourself?

WILLIAMS: Well, Michelle had took the maternity leave to have her little girl. And right now, I'm sure that's up in the air if she'll continue flying or not, but she still has approximately I think three years left in the military. So I have plenty of time to...

QUESTION: When you and David get some time together, what's one of your favorite things you like to do with him as a father, son? And what is something you're looking forward to doing?

WILLIAMS: What I've always done is be there and just listen to his ideas. He's always brainstorming how he can make something better, how he can help someone. So I'll be a good ear and just listen.

QUESTION: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?

WILLIAMS: Probably they -- a lot of people had to have been touched by his kindness, his caring attitude, wanting to make sure that he can help someone become a better at what they do. And like in his case as a pilot and an instructor, then he can help them -- to possibly help them somewhere along the line in their corner.

QUESTION: Can your grandchildren understand what has happened to their dad?

WILLIAMS: I don't they totally understood, but the two year old, his son, can see his dad flashed on the screen. And he'd say, "Dada, daddy." And then we'd say, "Yes, daddy's coming home soon." And then you could just see him run around in a good mood.

And of course, the six months old, a little too young to know what's going on.

COOPER: You have been listening to David Williams, Senior, the proud father of Chief Warrant Officer David Williams, one of seven American POWs who we hope will be returning home soon, rescued today in Iraq.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK) COOPER: A very busy day of developments for U.S. forces in Iraq, including a firefight in central Baghdad. I want to get an overview now, so we're going to go to Jamie McIntyre standing by at the Pentagon.

Jamie, busy day, indeed.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Anderson. There was that firefight in downtown Baghdad outside the Palestine Hotel which is serving as the U.S. military headquarters and headquarters for media in the area.

But the real action has been to the north in Tikrit where U.S. Marines are launching an all-out assault on the city. They fully expect to take control of Tikrit sooner or later. At this point, they're not really meeting much in the way of organized resistance.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SADLER: ... following fires here out of Tikrit.

MCINTYRE (voice-over): If there was any question Saddam Hussein's home town of Tikrit was the last stronghold of his Baathist Party loyalists, it was answered when CNN's Brent Sadler ventured into the city in a convoy of media vehicles.

SADLER: Checkpoint. OK. That's gunfire. OK. We've just come under attack. Under attack. We're OK. We're OK. Under fire. That confirms our worst fears.

MCINTYRE: But Sadler also saw deserted vehicles in military installations, a clear sign that all but the most diehard defenders had abandoned their posts in the face of a U.S. Marine advance.

GEN. TOMMY FRANKS, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: When last I checked, this force was moving on Tikrit, and there -- and there was not any resistance.

MCINTYRE: While Tikrit appears on the verge of falling, the U.S. isn't close to declaring an end to what it calls Phase 3 combat operations.

FRANKS: Iraq's a large country, and so there are lots of places in this country where we have not physically had our soldiers. We know that there are pockets of foreigners in Iraq who have decided to fight for their -- to their last breath.

MCINTYRE: The U.S. still doesn't know the status of Saddam Hussein or most of the 55 top leaders pictured on playing cards distributed to U.S. trips.

Sources say one of Saddam's half-brother, Watban Ibrahim Hasan al-Tikriti, was captured trying to escape across the border to Syria where the U.S. fears other senior leaders may have received refuge at well.

RUMSFELD: We certainly are hopeful that Syria will not become a haven for war criminals or terrorists.

MCINTYRE: Saturday, the regime's top science adviser, General Amir Al-Saadi, turned himself in in Baghdad, insisting still that Iraq has no weapons of mass destruction and that he knew nothing of Saddam Hussein's fate.

BLITZER: Where is Saddam Hussein?

FRANKS: I don't know. He's either dead or he's running a lot.

MCINTYRE: The U.S. will soon begin to sift through the rubble left by an April 7 air strike that targeted Saddam Hussein and his sons.

BLITZER: Do you have DNA of Saddam Hussein and his sons?

FRANKS: Oh, of course. Of course.

BLITZER: You do?

FRANKS: Of course.

BLITZER: So you'll be able to confirm...

FRANKS: Of course.

BLITZER: ... make a positive confirmation if, in fact, he was in that building.

FRANKS: Well, unless -- unless remains were removed.

MCINTYRE: The U.S. also has a massive challenge to find chemical, biological, or nuclear weapons, which were the primary justification for the war. There have been plenty of false alarms and some promising leads, but, so far, no smoking gun.

FRANKS: You're talking about 2,000, 3,000 perhaps distinct places in this country where we know we're going to go and investigate each one of them.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE: General Tommy Franks is scheduled to make his first visit to Baghdad as soon as this week, about the same time that newly liberated Iraqis will be meeting in Nasiriya to start to sort out the transition from military -- U.S. military rule to civilian government -- Anderson.

COOPER: Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon.

Thanks very much tonight.

At the start of the day, I think everyone would have told you the big story today was going to be the push further into Saddam Hussein's home town of Tikrit, but it was what happened on the way to Tikrit that stole every headline today. Seven POWs rescued. U.S. forces had a little help and, let's say, a lot of luck to turn the dream of seven families into reality.

CNN's Wolf Blitzer takes us through the rescue.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): Good luck acted upon with lightning speed. It didn't begin as a rescue operation. U.S. Marine units were approaching Tikrit, preparing for the battle for that city. When a Marine reconnaissance battalion got to the nearby town of Samarra, a policeman asked them if they'd come for the prisoners.

RUMSFELD: Iraqis came up to American military and said that there are seven Americans at this location, and it was about, oh, six or eight kilometers south of Tikrit, and that you should go get them, and they did.

BLITZER: The Marines were led to a building in Samarra, guarded by Iraqi soldiers who'd been abandoned by their commanders. The prisoners were promptly handed over. Reporter Mathew Fisher of the "National Post" of Canada was in the area.

MATTHEW FISHER, "NATIONAL POST" OF CANADA: The Americans -- the Marines were astonished. They were taken and found the prisoners, and immediately they said they broke into tears. There was incredible joy.

BLITZER: As the news trickled out after 7:00 Eastern Time this morning, CNN's Bob Franken was among the first with word of the rescue and the prisoners' condition.

FRANKEN (voice-over): We have now confirmed the number is seven, and we also have new information -- and, as you can imagine, it's trickling out -- we are now told that two of them suffered gunshot wounds. We do not know the extent of the wounds.

BLITZER: The two wounded POWs were able to walk under their own power. All the former prisoners and their Iraqi guards were taken to Kuwait where they'll be debriefed.

The stark pictures of these seven young people have become familiar to us over the past three weeks. Two of them, Army Chief Warrant Officers Ronald Young and David Williams, were captured when their Apache helicopter went down south of Baghdad on March 24. The other five were from the now well-known Army 507th Maintenance Company, PFC Jessica Lynch's unit, based at Fort Bliss, Texas -- Sergeant James Riley, Private First Class Patrick Miller, Specialists Edgar Hernandez, Joseph Hudson, and Shoshana Johnson -- captured after their unit was ambushed near Nasiriya three weeks ago today.

Now the families of all seven finally seeing new pictures of their loved ones.

Wolf Blitzer, CNN, Dora, Qatar.

(END VIDEOTAPE) COOPER: We are just getting little bits of information right now about how the seven POWs were cared for, were treated over the last two weeks or so of their captivity. There's a -- going to be an article in today's "Washington Post" that I've just actually pulled off line.

Some of the details, some of the headlines from it just to bring to you right now -- we're going to have more on this coming up in the broadcast -- the captives were at one point stripped of their clothing, ordered to wear unwashed blue or yellow striped prison pajamas.

Two or three times a day, they were given water or tea, bowls of rice, bread, sometimes chicken. They slept on concrete floors. Guards were at first cruel, but the physical abuse largely subsided. The prisoners were called -- apparently, some of the soldiers with gunshot wounds even went -- underwent surgery.

This -- apparently, "The Washington Post" had some reporters, I believe, aboard one of the transport aircraft that were carrying the POWs.

Also, in "The Boston Herald," there's a quote from Shoshana Johnson who says, "We were a hot potato moved around six holding places in the last six days alone." She said, quote, "It was getting to the point where I believed they were going to kill us."

We're going to have a lot more on this coming up in the next hour or two.

As we said, in Baghdad, it has been a dangerous day, indeed. A firefight broke out with gunmen holed up in a building near the Palestine Hotel. Nic Robertson is in Baghdad tonight, has the latest on what's going on there -- Nic.

ROBERTSON: Anderson, that was about five hours ago. Marines who were guarding the Palestine Hotel where the vast majority of journalists in Baghdad are working took fire from a building about a hundred yards away. They responded with heavy machine gunfire, two long, extended bursts of heavy machine gunfire.

Eventually, the Marines were able to arrest three people who they found in the vicinity. It's not clear if the men arrested were the gunmen or were security workers at a neighboring building. But, certainly, they've been brought into Palestine Hotel, brought here for questioning by the Marines.

There's been a day as well where we've seen rising anger and frustration by the residents of Baghdad. Looting has continued. The values of -- items -- there are perhaps fewer items of value for looters to take from buildings here, but that doesn't seem to be stopping them.

We've seen them at a police academy, at the planning ministry, at the information ministry, at Iraq's television station. Pretty much whichever government building you go to that isn't guarded by U.S. Marines or Army -- and those are -- though like the oil ministry here -- the looters are going in freely to take what they will from those buildings.

The frustration and anger we're hearing from people here is that they do not have security.

We heard one woman say that she had been to talk to the Marines because her child was sick, she thought her child was dying, the hospitals aren't working, she'd asked for help, she said she couldn't get help from the Marines.

We heard another woman saying that her neighborhood wasn't safe, that men were coming to her house -- armed men were coming to her house at night and that she wanted protection from the police.

The police here are beginning to put some officers back on the street. There was a meeting about 24 hours ago where new emerging political leaders urged policemen, urged engineers, urged doctors to return to duty, and due today, a police force is expected to go out on the streets today. It's not clear how many officers will be there. They will be backed by U.S. Marines, U.S. Army.

Those policemen are supposed to gather at their training academy in a few hours time. Yesterday, that academy was completely deserted, apart from the looters, but this is perhaps -- and we'll have to judge this when we see it -- perhaps the first steps to restoring some sort of security about the city -- Anderson.

COOPER: Nic, we're just seeing some video of this meeting that was held -- an opposition figure holding a meeting, trying to get Iraqis organized. Are you -- are we seeing more and more of that, especially from the opposition who had been out of the country for so long? Are more of them coming and trying to sort of gather support to organize things a bit?

ROBERTSON: Certainly, people are returning to Iraq from outside of the country, people who have been out for many years, in some cases decades.

What we're hearing from people on the streets are they don't want outsiders -- Iraqis who've been living in exile for many years -- they say they don't want those people coming back to Iraq. They're not their leaders, they say, and, certainly, that's been the coalition's view, that there are political leaders who are in Iraq who have yet to emerge. They haven't been able to -- they haven't been able to come forward in the past because of the dictatorship run by Saddam Hussein.

But, nevertheless, people are returning. There was one religious leader returned to the religious city of Najaf a few days ago. He was murdered by people in that city. So it's not an easy situation they're coming into.

We have not seen many meetings by these officials yet, but we are likely to see more in coming days. There will be a meeting in An Nasiriya in south central Iraq in -- on Tuesday when many of these delegates are likely to attend perhaps the first and largest conference to designate or to move towards designating a new governorship, a new political order for the Iraqis -- Anderson.

COOPER: All right. Nic Robertson live in Baghdad.

Thanks very much, Nic.

More now with retired Colonel Mike Turner of the United States Air Force. He's in Colorado Springs, Colorado, tonight.

Colonel Turner, how do you try to integrate those Iraqi opposition forces? I mean it's one of the challenges, I suppose, that the U.S. military now faces, exactly who to brand a leader, who to rely on to try to organize local support.

TURNER: Well, absolutely, Anderson. And as the report showed, this is -- this is a really extraordinarily difficult process that the Iraqi people and, frankly, the United States is facing, and the coalition forces are facing right now.

The template that I have referred to numerous times over the last week or so is post-World War II Japan and Germany. If that's the template, then we can anticipate literally years of extensive U.S. involvement in this process.

This is a people that has no modern experience in democracy, who's just essentially lost a 30-year-old iron-controlling regime almost overnight, and this will require extensive involvement. We can't -- I don't personally believe that we can just leave them to their own devices and expect some sort of cohesive government to just flower forth out of nothing without planning some fairly significant seeds on our part and continuing to nurture those seeds and at least allowing them to establish some kind of roots over the next months and possibly years.

So it's a very difficult process, and I think you're -- the last report and you rightly hit the nail right on the head. We need to begin to decide who among the opposition leaders are we going to trust, who can be trusted, who has -- who will demonstrate in good faith a desire to take care of the Iraqi people and Iraqi society in a manner which will not, five years down the road, threaten the United States as much or more than the regime we just ousted.

So it's a very complex problem, and your reference to Haiti, I think, was probably also pretty accurate. There's a very good chance that this could take years and involve extensive U.S. participating.

COOPER: And, of course, the debate we're going to no doubt being hearing a lot more in the coming days and the days and perhaps even years is what role the U.N. should play in all of this.

Just from a military perspective, does the U.S. military -- "enjoy" is probably not the right word -- but feel comfortable in a peacekeeping role? I know they're training for it. I know there are courses for it, but, actually, doing it day in, day out for months on end, is it something they want to be doing?

TURNER: No. In fact, U.S. forces will do what they're ordered to do, obviously.

They flew Operation Provide Comfort over northern Iraq for 90 days after the war to protect the Kurds from the Iraqis, and I was the operations officer of that unit, and I remember when we got back after 90 days, it took us another 90 days as least to requalify our air crews in their basic combat mission because the missions in Provide Comfort were so benign and so unchallenging and routine. That's what peacekeeping operations do.

Now I was trying to recall the other day from my work in the policy planning branch of the joint staff, I believe -- and I could be wrong on this, but I believe that U.N. charter makes a distinction between peacekeeping and peacemaking, and I think peacemaking is Chapter 7 operations where you have to actually forcibly go in and create peaceful environments.

The U.N. is anathema to that kind of operation. They want a peace accord in place, a government in place, and they simply want to monitor the situation and maintain peace. We're not there yet. We may be a while away from that, and it's going to be problematic to bring U.N. forces in, if, in fact, the administration decides to allow that, until some sort of transition government is actually established and there's some semblance of order.

So it's a very, very difficult problem.

COOPER: All right. Colonel Mike Turner, appreciate talking to you always. We'll talk to you in a little bit.

Next on NEWSNIGHT, a lot more on the freed POWs and how their families reacted to their news. Also, we are just getting in right now a -- new information.

"The Washington Post" has a story in today's newspaper with some really startling details not only about the conditions under which these seven POWs but also some of the circumstances that led up to the capture of not only the two pilots but also the 507th -- those members from the 507th Maintenance Company.

So we're going to have some of those details when we come back.

Also, some thoughts about new challenges ahead from Katrina Vanden Heuvel, editor of "The Nation." We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: I want to spend some time talking about what may come next in Iraq and perhaps what needs to come next with two guests. In Washington, Ken Pollack of the Brookings Institution. He's an expert on Iraq and also a CNN analyst. And we're joined now in New York by the editor of "The Nation" magazine, Katrina Vanden Heuvel.

Welcome to you both. Thank you for being with us.

KATRINA VANDEN HEUVEL, EDITOR, "THE NATION": Thank you. COOPER: Ken, I want to start off with you. U.S. military will tell you there is still a war going on. Therefore, that is their top priority. But, obviously, the question of what happens now, what's going to happen in the coming days and weeks in terms of how order is restored and transition to some sort of other sort of regime is made -- that's the kind of question on a lot of people's mind. What role do you think the U.N. is going to play, should play in all of this?

KEN POLLACK, CNN ANALYST: Well, "is" going to play is an entirely different question. Let me stick to what kind of a role it should play.

I think the United Nations needs to be involved in a very major way in this operation. I'd like to see the United Nations take some kind of an umbrella role over it.

The U.N. is critical for a whole bunch of reasons. I'll just name two.

One, we've got to reassure the Iraqi people and the other -- the Arabs of the region that this is not an exercise in colonialism. So many of them think that the U.S. came to Iraq simply to colonize the country and steal their oil. Having the U.N. umbrella over it will make it so that they can have a degree of comfort in what it is the U.S. is doing there.

And, secondly, we need the U.N. there because we need as many countries as possible to participate in this operation, for their skills, their expertise, their resources, their armed forces. All of that will make a huge difference in getting this off on the right foot.

COOPER: Katrina, I assume, to a degree, you're going to agree with that. So let me just push it forward a little bit. Having spent time in Haiti or Cambodia where the U.N. have operated in these kind of roles, are they really able to do this successfully? I mean there was a lot of, you know, press about the U.N. taking over the Haiti operation. If you go to Port-au-Prince now, it's a mess. Can the U.N. do this?

VANDEN HEUVEL: Anderson, it's -- you know, it's the only international institution we have, and it's important to bring it in for international legitimacy.

I might add that, you know, the debate over the wisdom of this war, which was a war of choice, not necessity -- the main justification the administration gave us was that this country, Iraq, had weapons of mass destruction. So far, none have been found. And even if a cache is found, it's clear that these weapons have never posed an imminent threat to the United States.

The issue of the U.N. is important here because the inspections process under the auspices of the United Nations was working. It is crucial that the U.N. be brought back in if there are weapons of mass destruction found to give their imprimatur, to explain to the international community what they have found. Otherwise, no one 10 miles outside of Washington, D.C., or the Pentagon is going to believe what the United States ex -- says it has. So I think that's crucial.

I also think it's important -- we saw today, Anderson, the omens of what an American occupation might look like, the sniping. We've seen suicide bombings. We've seen the plundering and looting of a country of its museum, of its hospitals.

There is already ill will among the Iraqi people who ask where were the American troops who could have halted the plundering of a museum of historical treasures, where were they when they could have halted the looting of hospitals.

These are the very Iraqis America needs, the international community needs, if a stable regime in Iraq is going to be built post- Saddam.

The omens are not good right now, which is saddening to any American who believes that this war was fought to increase U.S. national security. I don't believe we're seeing that happen, and I think this war will undermine U.S. national security.

COOPER: All right. Ken, let's try to stay focused here on exactly what happens now, on the U.N. I think it was Tom Friedman who wrote, you know, this line you break it, you bought it. Does the U.N. -- or the U.S. have a responsibility, have an obligation to maintain order, to maintain control?

POLLACK: I think there's no question that the U.S. has not only an obligation but an interest in maintaining order and maintaining control. It is critical for the United States to rebuild a stable and prosperous Iraq.

That's important for the U.S.'s image. It's also important for U.S. security. You've got to remember Iraq is a critically important country in a critically important part of the world. The U.S. cannot afford to allow Iraq to slide into chaos...

COOPER: But it's...

POLLACK: ... and as a result...

COOPER: But, Ken, let me just ask you -- I mean how do you do that if, on the one hand, the Iraqis in the streets are yelling saying we don't want you here for long term and, on the other hand, you're saying, you know, the -- what you're proposing is a long-term operation.

POLLACK: That's where the U.N. comes in because I think that you're right that the U.S. is going to have to be there for a long- term presence, but the only way that we're going to be able to sell that long-term presence to the Iraqis, the only way that it's going to be palatable for them is if there is a U.N. imprimatur over the entire operation.

VANDEN HEUVEL: I...

COOPER: Katrina, your thought? VANDEN HEUVEL: I would -- I would say that it has to be more than a U.N. imprimatur, Ken. I think you need to bring the U.N. with a real financial, political capacity to really administer and reconstruct Iraq.

If this war, as this administration says, was a war of liberation, then hold this administration accountable, and the way to do that is to bring the U.N. in so it doesn't look like the U.S. and Britain are going to take the spoils of this country, and I think that's a real danger in the eyes of many Iraqis who see -- sadly who see America as an occupying force, and I think it's important for U.S. national security to not be perceived that way.

Look at the costs also for American -- the work -- the poor and the working people of America already face crumbling schools, institutions. Shouldn't there be an international reconstruction effort?

And if I might add just one point, any company that gets a contract to rebuild Iraq -- U.S. company -- it seems to me should be taxed 50-percent excess profit windfall...

COOPER: Wait. All right. Let's not get...

VANDEN HEUVEL: ... for war.

COOPER: All right. Let's try to stay focused.

VANDEN HEUVEL: They should be because this is also...

COOPER: Let me -- let me just jump...

VANDEN HEUVEL: ... going to be perceived in the Arab world...

COOPER: Let me just jump in here. Let me just jump in here.

VANDEN HEUVEL: ... as corporate profiteering.

COOPER: Let me just jump in here. I'm not -- I think you raise some interesting points. It would be interesting to see, if you talk to Iraqis, how France and Germany are perceived, especially after word, you know, that we've just received word from the...

I think it was the "San Francisco Chronicle" found these documents saying that Russia, at the same time that it was, you know, working the U.N. to stop this effort, was also -- apparently -- or some company in Russia was training members of the secret police from Iraq.

I want to join -- Colonel Mike Turner wanted to get in.

Colonel Turner, your thoughts?

TURNER: Well, we worked on an African crisis response initiative when I was in the Pentagon, and we ran into precisely this problem. The initial initiative was a U.S. proposed African crisis response force. The response we got overwhelming throughout Europe and Africa was you must involve the U.N.

Perception is a hundred percent of the game in the Middle East. It simply is not feasible for the United States unless it chooses to unilaterally try and affect substantive change in the perceptions of the Arab community in that region of the world, which I think would be almost impossible, to try and do that without the U.N. may feel good, but it simply is not a practical solution.

Ken is absolutely on target on this.

COOPER: All right. We're going to have to leave it there.

Katrina Vanden Heuvel, Ken Pollack, Colonel Mike Turner, appreciate it as always.

Our coverage of the war in Iraq continues, the best news of the day for the families of seven freed POWs, but, first, a break and the latest news headlines.

(NEWSBREAK)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: CNN's Bob Franken was in Iraq with the 24th Marine Expeditionary Unit this morning and was able to convince the people in charge to let the cameras roll as the rescued POWs arrived at the U.S. base. Quite a thing to witness. And Bob joins us now on the phone.

Bob, remarkable day. Remarkable images.

FRANKEN: It was a remarkable day, Anderson, and there's no question that the Marines are delighted that CNN was able to show this to the families, who, as we witnessed, as we watched the coverage throughout the day, were just ecstatic to see the loved ones that they had just held on to with such fragile hopes were, in fact, safe under these extreme circumstances.

Of course, they came bounding off of their helicopter just a couple of hours after they'd been rescued, showing that they were just elated to be free, as one might imagine. The five of them ran from the helicopter to the vehicle that was going to be taking them -- vehicle that would be taking them to a plane and then to Kuwait. In obvious good health.

Two others were not quite as robust. They were, in fact, barely able to make it without -- with help -- without help. But they were able to do it, and it turns out that they're in quite good health.

Now, of course, they are going to be debriefed and debriefed and debriefed, and then they're going to be on their way to freedom -- Anderson.

COOPER: Bob, how much advance word did you get that they were coming?

FRANKEN: Not a lot. Not a lot. I think we'd gotten some advance word that they'd been embargoed at first. Then I was told that they would not permit coverage. We had what I would call a vigorous discussion about that, and they changed their minds, and, as I said, the entire world got to witness a very, very happy story.

COOPER: Yes, it was remarkable and -- just a remarkable job all the way around. Bob Franken, appreciate you joining us. It's been a long day for you, no doubt. Thanks for spending time with us tonight.

I want to check in now with Peter Baker from "The Washington Post." There is an article in today's "Washington Post," which has really the first details of what happened to those POWs, both at what happened that initiated their capture and initiated their release and what their treatment was like at the hands of the Iraqis.

Peter Baker joins us now on the phone from Kuwait City.

COOPER: Peter, your article really does have the first details, but let's talk first about the 507th Maintenance Company. There was some question about how they got captured. What have you learned?

PETER BAKER, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Well, in talking with some of the prisoners who were released yesterday, they told us that they just basically took a wrong turn. They were traveling through southern Kuwait -- southern Kuwait -- excuse me -- through southern Iraq and suddenly found themselves in Nasiriya, which, by now, everybody knows was a shooting gallery at the time. Nobody really did.

Suddenly, they found themselves being ambushed, a hail of gunfire, RPGs everywhere, in front of them, behind them, to the right, to the left, one of the sergeants who was freed yesterday said they felt like they were Custer at Alamo.

COOPER: And that sergeant -- Sergeant -- I believe it was James Riley in the article who said that he was the senior -- the senior soldier on the scene. He is the one who actually decided to surrender the surviving troops. Is that right?

BAKER: Well, that's right. He said, look, there was no choice. Not only were they swarmed by Iraqi gunmen all around them, but their own weapons had jammed in the dust of the Iraqi desert, and they couldn't fire back. One of the -- a private first class was trying to shove rounds into his rifle one by one to fire off.

They weren't going to be able to win that, and so the sergeant made the judicious decision to order his troops to surrender. They threw down their weapons and put up their hands.

COOPER: Now Private First Class Jessica Lynch, who we all know was injured, was taken, I guess, to a hospital in Nasiriya. The others were taken to Baghdad. What was their treatment like? Where were they held?

BAKER: Well, when they were first captured, they were, you know, kicked and beaten some, some sticks against the back, and that sort of thing. But, after that, they said the physical abuse really subsided. It became more just mental torture in the way of not knowing what would come next. You know, any moment, they could be killed, they thought, by either their captors or really by even American bombs.

They were in the middle of Baghdad as it was getting pummeled from the air. One of the bombs hit 50 yards from the prison that they were in one night. So they were in a constant state of uncertainty, not knowing what could happen at any moment.

COOPER: And they were interrogated.

BAKER: They were interrogated, yes. Sometimes they had blindfolds on when they were interrogated. Sometimes they didn't. Sometimes the Iraqis played gentle inquisitor, which, of course, was just a way of trying to soften them up.

They asked them, you know, where their division was located, where were different units located, and then they asked them a lot of political questions -- why are you here in Iraq, why are you here killing our women and children, and that sort of thing.

COOPER: Did they speak of any abuse?

BAKER: No, they -- I even asked Shoshana Johnson, the Army specialist who was the only woman among the seven who were freed yesterday. She said that they treated her actually very well in a physical sense, that they didn't abuse her in any real way, and, in fact, because she was a woman, she believed they treated her a little more gently even than some of the -- her male colleagues.

COOPER: And some of the interrogators, it seemed, had actually seen some of their relatives on TV and sort of taunted them with that. What happened with that?

BAKER: That's right. That's right. They told, in fact, Shoshana Johnson that they had seen her mother on television talking about this, and, you know, you can only imagine how a prisoner would feel thinking about their parents worrying about them and going through the ordeal that their own families were going through back home. That could only have increased their anxiety.

COOPER: Now I was reading in your story, too, they had no idea what had happened to Private First Class Jessica Lynch, didn't know her whereabouts really until today when they were freed.

But then two other Americans appeared in the same prison where they were being held in Baghdad. So let's -- let's talk a little bit about those two. Those, of course, both chief warrant officers, those Apache pilots. Let's talk first about their capture. What happened when their Apache went down?

BAKER: Well, that's right. That's David Williams and Ronald Jones. They were among the pilots flying the first deep-strike Apache raid against the Iraqis early in the war. It turned out to be a disaster. They were met with just a storm of small-arms fire that basically shot up every Apache that went out.

There's is the one that was knocked down to the ground, though, and they suddenly found themselves on the run trying to escape the Iraqis who were chasing them. They dove into a canal and swam a quarter mile down, hoping to get away. Finally, they ended up being caught by farmers, who had assault rifles, waiting for them in a filed.

COOPER: Just remarkable. And then they were finally captured, brought to this place in Baghdad. Do we know -- was it a prison?

BAKER: The first place they were at seemed to be a prison. They were kept in individual cells that were in a concrete, cold building with a tin roof. After that, they were moved -- they stayed there about a dozen days, but then, as U.S. forces were advancing on the city, they were moved fairly rapidly.

Every couple of nights, they were moved to a house, to a government building, all over the place, seemingly as jailers were trying to basically get rid of them and pawn them off on somebody else. Nobody wanted to be caught by Americans holding their prisoners.

COOPER: And some of them -- at least in your article, Shoshana Johnson is quoted -- she underwent some surgery.

BAKER: Yes. Three of them, in fact, had been injured, gunfire wounds, and three of them underwent surgery by Iraqi doctors. They seemed healthy yesterday, but, obviously, American doctors are going to want to take a look at them, give them more -- a much more thorough examination and really check on the care that they've been given and see what they can do for them now.

COOPER: Were they able to communicate with each other during their captivity?

BAKER: Early on, they were kept isolated from each other and were chided when they tried to, you know, communicate with code or whatever. But as they were moved to other facilities, other homes, they were put in the same rooms more often. So, by the end, they were all together.

COOPER: Talk a little bit about what they told you just about each day, what it was like, what went through their minds, how they got through the days.

BAKER: Well, their days were, you know, filled with endless speculation and anxiety.

I -- they were fed two or three times a day with sort of a same -- you know, unappetizing portions of rice and pita bread and maybe a little chicken and so forth. They weren't allowed outside to exercise. They couldn't shower. They wore the same grungy pajama- like prison clothes 21 days on end without any change. It was a fairly, you know, dingy and dirty existence. And then at night, as the bombing seemed to get closer and closer, they just sat there and listened. They could hear the bombs as they got closer. One of them said they could even hear the shells of the A-10 Warthog on the building -- on the roof of the building that they were in.

COOPER: And they were moved around so much. I think you said in the last six days or so, they were moved like six different locations. Were -- why was that? Was that an organized plan, or did it -- according to them, did it seem like no one wanted to be caught holding the Americans hostage?

BAKER: I think they thought that people did not want them. They thought they were a hot potato.

One of them said we're, you know, the bastard children of Iraq, nobody wants us. Nobody -- if you're an Iraqi and the Americans are coming and they're going to take over, you don't want to be the last ones holding these guys.

So the last move, of course, was outside of Baghdad to Samarra, a town about 70 miles north of Baghdad, which is where the Marines found them on Sunday.

COOPER: And what did they say about their rescue?

BAKER: Well, it came as a complete shock to them. Suddenly, out of the blue, the doors are being kicked in, and they hear shouting, Marines are screaming get down, get down. Somebody then shouts out, if you're an American, stand up. So they did, and just like that, within two minutes, they were hustled out of the house, on to a helicopter, out of there.

COOPER: And just your take -- you were on the plane with them flying to Kuwait City. How did they seem to you? Were they laughing? Were they smiling? Were they sullen? What was your take?

BAKER: It was a mix of all of those things. They were laughing. They were thrilled to be out. As Bob said, they -- absolutely jubilant.

At the same time, you know, they just sort of veered back and forth into tears as they thought bout the experiences they had been in. One of them said, you know, I just kept thinking every morning, I would wake up, and I realized that I might not ever see my wife again, and he just started to cry.

So they're in a very, you know, fragile moment right now, a moment when it was all just being processed. The very first hours after being released when they were just starting to really get their bearings again and realize that, in fact, they had been saved.

COOPER: This really is the first concrete information we have gotten about what went on with these seven. What surprised you most? Of all the things you've learned in the last several hours, what surprised you? BAKER: I don't think I'd -- I wouldn't say surprised, but I am struck by their fortitude. They -- you know, they endured an extraordinary experience that would break a lot of us, and, you know, it sounds from their accounts that they stood up to it, and they've emerged from it, you know, able to move on.

COOPER: All right. Peter Baker, nice job of reporting.

The article is at "The Washington Post" on line right now. You can check it out.

Peter, thanks very much for joining us.

Coming up next, an exclusive interview with the sister of rescued POW Shoshana Johnson. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: ... being rescued.

Mind you this is a family that's already undergone quite a bit of stress when everything started happening last week with Jessica Lynch. You know, they rode this emotional roller coaster when they said that a soldier had been found. They had gotten their hopes up very high that perhaps that could have been Shoshana Johnson. It didn't turn out.

But a very emotional day. They didn't -- they were finally able to speak with Shoshana about 3:00 this afternoon, seven hours after given the official word, and Shoshana's reaction on the phone, when she finally got through at the house where the phone has been ringing off the hook all day, said, "What took you guys so long to answer?" She sounded -- her sister said she sounded a little frustrated.

I also talked to her about Shoshana's demeanor and how she sounded and whether or not her ordeal and her time in captivity -- if she sounded upset in any way, and her sister, Nikki, said that she's already joking about it, in fact that she had seen the images broadcast on television of her rescue.

And one thing she told her sister is that -- why did they have to show those pictures where my hair looked so bad. So Nikki Johnson says that if she's already kind of joking around that she's confident her sister will be able to pull through what has happened.

But this is a family dealing with a lot of emotions. They realize that what they -- the news they got today is a special gift, and not all of the soldiers in the 507th Maintenance Company and their families got the same news.

Take a listen to Nikki Johnson.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NIKKI JOHNSON, SISTER OF FORMER POW SHOSHANA JOHNSON: I mean I hope that the others -- those that are missing -- that their families can get what we have now, you know, to think about, you know, this time constructively, like what they're going to do when this person gets back, you know, and I just want to tell them to hold on, hold on, because we got ours back. You know, you can get yours back, too.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAVANDERA: Now Nikki Johnson says that -- the only thing that Shoshana shared about what happened on that early morning hour of March 23 was that Shoshana said she had thought she had done everything she was supposed to do, had gotten down on the ground and started trying to crawl out of the situation.

She said even doing that, she was shot twice in the -- in each leg. She was shot twice, once in each leg, and those were the wounds that she is heeling right now -- the physical wounds that she is heeling, but the family is confident that she looks to be fine, although her father did tell me a little while ago as well that in the images that he's seen so far, he could tell that the -- in his daughter's face, he could see that she was walking in pain.

Now the big news is when the Johnson family gets to finally see Shoshana, and that's still up in the air from the latest information I've been able to gather from them. They're still waiting exactly to see whether or not she'll be taken to Walter Reed Medical Center near Washington, D.C., or brought back here to the Fort Bliss, Texas, area.

So they're waiting to find out when exactly that will happen, but they anticipate they'll be able to see her in a couple of days -- Anderson.

COOPER: And, Ed, I don't -- you probably weren't able to hear our broadcast. Just a few moments ago, we were talking to Peter Baker from "The Washington Post" who was actually on the flight with Shoshana Johnson and the others.

He reporting that she had actually undergone surgery as well as three -- two other of the POWs -- surgery, I suppose, on the injuries to her feet. No doubt she will still be examined very closely by doctors for whatever else she needs.

But a great day for a lot of families all around the country this evening.

Ed Lavandera, thanks very much.

LAVANDERA: Sure.

COOPER: Coming up next on our continuing coverage of the war in Iraq, we're going to check in with the 101st Airborne as they continue their work patrolling the streets of Iraq, and there's a lot of work to be done. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: We want to go to -- now to CNN's Ryan Chilcote who is with the 101st Airborne. Ryan, what's the situation where you are right now?

RYAN CHILCOTE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, four American soldiers from the 101st Airborne Division wounded in combat yesterday, both Sunday night, actually, in an apparent ambush on them, as they were in the town of Mahmudiya.

They were clearing a police station -- clearing, actually, several buildings, one of them a police station, part of a larger operation that the 101st is engaged in in southern Baghdad and south of the city, to clear all establishments, all buildings that are associated with Saddam Hussein's regime. They're going into those buildings to both look for Iraqi fighters and also to look for weapons of which they're finding a lot of them.

Now I went through Mahmudiya about five days ago with a convoy from the 101st Airborne -- actually, the first convoy to enter into Baghdad from the 101st. It's just about 10 miles south of the city. It is just off the main artery that goes into southern Baghdad, Highway 8.

And I have to tell you it was a very eerie feeling. It is the only place -- it was the only place along the entire road where people that had lined the streets to watch the streets pass through were not cheering for them, were not applauding them as they went through.

And in the middle of the town -- it's not a very big town -- there were three T-72 Soviet-made tanks that had belonged to the Iraqis that were completely destroyed, and they were right in the middle of a residential district, and some of the buildings adjacent to those tanks had also been destroyed, and it was obviously the scene of some heavy fighting.

It is still a place where soldiers when they pass through -- and they do pass through that town quite a bit -- are very apprehensive. A soldier yesterday telling me every time he goes through Mahmudiya, he takes his weapon off of safety and puts it on to the ready so he's ready for anything -- any eventualities that might happen there -- Anderson.

COOPER: Ryan, any sense of the condition of the four who you say were injured in that town.

CHILCOTE: No word yet. I do know that they were MediVaced almost immediately. A friend of mine was in that area. He saw the MediVac helicopter and two ambulances on the scene.

There is an American base nearby, and we do know that they were evacuated from the area very quickly. but no word yet as to exactly how serious their wounds are at this point -- Anderson.

COOPER: Ryan, how much of the operations that the 101st are doing right now would be described as peacekeeping, how much of them are still offensive military operations or searching out pockets of resistance? CHILCOTE: I would say it's about 80-20. Eighty percent would be searching out at this point. They still -- you know, they have like a checklist, if you will. As I mentioned earlier, they have to go through all of these establishments that they think might in some way or another be related to Saddam Hussein's regime.

So they're going to go through all government buildings. They're going to go through all the residences of the senior Baath Party officials. They have to go through all those buildings. They -- they're going to go through all the schools. You ask why schools. Well, schools have been used throughout this conflict by the Iraqis as places to stash their weapons.

So they have to go through hundreds of buildings, and that takes a lot of time.

And then when they get through that -- and they're already doing a little bit of this now -- they're going to enter into this peacekeeping role that you were talking about.

For example, there is no electricity in southern Baghdad right now, and one of the things that the 101st is working on is getting that power plant running. Well, to get the power plant running, the head of the power plant has said you have to provide my plant with security because the looters will kill my employees when they come, if my employees come back to work, to come to steal things.

So they are finding themselves -- as they attempt to establish order and bring a little bit of normalcy back into life here in southern Baghdad, they're finding themselves in more and more of a peacekeeping role, but still they -- it's a matter of resources, and they have to transition from this job of going through all of these buildings, all of these regions in southern Baghdad to that peacekeeping operation -- Anderson.

COOPER: And just very briefly, in this town, Mahmudiya, that you talk about, it -- where there - were the people are not particularly receptive to seeing the 101st there, is there looting going on there?

CHILCOTE: There's looting going on throughout southern Baghdad and south of the city. It's pretty amazing. People grabbing pretty much anything they can.

And, you know, we're not -- the 101st has been in southern Baghdad now for five days, and I've had a chance to watch some of this looting, and really there's not a whole lot more to loot at this point.

Really what we're seeing a lot of is looting, quite frankly, of gasoline. That's one of the few things that people are still finding. They're looting -- they're stealing gasoline for their cars.

But they basically stripped most of the places where the looting is going on clean, and there's not a whole lot more to take.

COOPER: All right. Ryan Chilcote with the 101st. Thanks very much, Ryan.

More of our special of the war on Iraq right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: In our next hour, Iraqis take matters into their own hands and start cleaning up Baghdad. From policemen to the men who run the power plant, the effort to get Baghdad back on its feet. We're going to have that story and more on the recovery of the American POWs after a brief break and the latest news headlines.

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