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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown
Taking Tikrit, Marines Faced Only Sporadic Resistance
Aired April 14, 2003 - 23:08 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Most of the unfinished business of this war can still be found in Tikrit.
And for another view of what's going on there, we're joined on the phone by Michael Ware of "TIME" magazine. Michael is reporting from Tikrit today.
Good to have you with us.
It was a very different picture we saw of Tikritis than we saw in Baghdad almost a week ago in terms of how happy they were, or seemed to be.
MICHAEL WARE, "TIME" MAGAZINE: Very much so. The few people who remained in the city of Tikrit came out to watch the Americans advance into the city, but the reception was less than welcoming. Some people waved from the sides of the road; other people asked for water or complained that there was no power. However, strong feelings remain.
When I was in the headquarters of the Baath Party in Tikrit, I was exploring some rooms and found some Iraqi flags. As I held them in my hands, a Tikriti came over to me and snatched them away. He then kissed the flag, stared at me, and said, "Saddam good."
So some strong feelings remain. I mean, these are the people who supported the regime. This is the clan from which much of the strength of Saddam's power was drawn.
BROWN: Is it just that simple that this was his political base at one point in his life, and that now that is gone that the feelings linger? Or is it more -- or is it also, I don't mean more, is it also the complicated religious ethnic disputes that have plagued Iraq for hundreds of years?
WARE: Well, very much it comes down to the structure of Iraqi society. These clans, who long supported Saddam, are now obviously under an enormous amount of pressure. However, they are buckling to some regard.
The clans and the tribes immediately surrounding Tikrit 48 hours ago approached me and said, we know that the end has come. We now welcome the American troops into our villages. However, they said that if a single ethnic Kurd from the north set foot in their villages, then they would kill them and they would continue to fight. This is the ongoing problem, particularly as rogue Kurdish bands are marauding in the north and looting Arab villages.
So the Arabs have taken up arms, and they are ready to fight. However, they said that in these villages immediately surrounding the city in the days before the American advance, suicide squads from the Baath Party and of foreign Fedayeen were put into their villages, and they were ordered, "You must operate as a buffer between us, the Kurds and the Americans, or we'll start killing you."
BROWN: Is the Army or the Marines keeping the Kurds out of Tikrit?
WARE: Not at this stage. The Kurds are not in Tikrit, but that's simply because they have to run a gauntlet of ambushes and bunkers and positions now maintained by simply Arab village people, not by the military, not by the party. The Arabs are defending their homes.
The approach to Tikrit, however, is still open. There are no American forces on the road that would enable the Kurds to go into the city. And it's simply the might of the Arab families and the gun fights that have been going on incessantly in the area surrounding Tikrit that has prevented Kurdish looters and others from entering the city.
It is a complete lawless badland surrounding the city of Tikrit at the moment. There is raping and pillaging, kidnapping, looting, thieving. It is completely out of control. There is a sea of anarchy surrounding Tikrit right now.
BROWN: How far north does that go? Or how wide is that circle?
WARE: That extends almost to the edge of the northern city of Kirkuk in almost all directions. Kirkuk itself was liberated last Thursday. At first, there were obviously scenes of jubilation. There was dancing in the streets, the hauling down and the destruction of icons of the Saddam Hussein regime. However, that quickly turned to looting. From the city, looting gangs then fanned out around to the villages, and that's when the trouble began.
So there's a wide swath of northern Iraq, which is now completely out of control.
BROWN: Michael, thank you for your work today. Michael War of "TIME" magazine reporting from Tikrit and the area around it.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.
Aired April 14, 2003 - 23:08 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Most of the unfinished business of this war can still be found in Tikrit.
And for another view of what's going on there, we're joined on the phone by Michael Ware of "TIME" magazine. Michael is reporting from Tikrit today.
Good to have you with us.
It was a very different picture we saw of Tikritis than we saw in Baghdad almost a week ago in terms of how happy they were, or seemed to be.
MICHAEL WARE, "TIME" MAGAZINE: Very much so. The few people who remained in the city of Tikrit came out to watch the Americans advance into the city, but the reception was less than welcoming. Some people waved from the sides of the road; other people asked for water or complained that there was no power. However, strong feelings remain.
When I was in the headquarters of the Baath Party in Tikrit, I was exploring some rooms and found some Iraqi flags. As I held them in my hands, a Tikriti came over to me and snatched them away. He then kissed the flag, stared at me, and said, "Saddam good."
So some strong feelings remain. I mean, these are the people who supported the regime. This is the clan from which much of the strength of Saddam's power was drawn.
BROWN: Is it just that simple that this was his political base at one point in his life, and that now that is gone that the feelings linger? Or is it more -- or is it also, I don't mean more, is it also the complicated religious ethnic disputes that have plagued Iraq for hundreds of years?
WARE: Well, very much it comes down to the structure of Iraqi society. These clans, who long supported Saddam, are now obviously under an enormous amount of pressure. However, they are buckling to some regard.
The clans and the tribes immediately surrounding Tikrit 48 hours ago approached me and said, we know that the end has come. We now welcome the American troops into our villages. However, they said that if a single ethnic Kurd from the north set foot in their villages, then they would kill them and they would continue to fight. This is the ongoing problem, particularly as rogue Kurdish bands are marauding in the north and looting Arab villages.
So the Arabs have taken up arms, and they are ready to fight. However, they said that in these villages immediately surrounding the city in the days before the American advance, suicide squads from the Baath Party and of foreign Fedayeen were put into their villages, and they were ordered, "You must operate as a buffer between us, the Kurds and the Americans, or we'll start killing you."
BROWN: Is the Army or the Marines keeping the Kurds out of Tikrit?
WARE: Not at this stage. The Kurds are not in Tikrit, but that's simply because they have to run a gauntlet of ambushes and bunkers and positions now maintained by simply Arab village people, not by the military, not by the party. The Arabs are defending their homes.
The approach to Tikrit, however, is still open. There are no American forces on the road that would enable the Kurds to go into the city. And it's simply the might of the Arab families and the gun fights that have been going on incessantly in the area surrounding Tikrit that has prevented Kurdish looters and others from entering the city.
It is a complete lawless badland surrounding the city of Tikrit at the moment. There is raping and pillaging, kidnapping, looting, thieving. It is completely out of control. There is a sea of anarchy surrounding Tikrit right now.
BROWN: How far north does that go? Or how wide is that circle?
WARE: That extends almost to the edge of the northern city of Kirkuk in almost all directions. Kirkuk itself was liberated last Thursday. At first, there were obviously scenes of jubilation. There was dancing in the streets, the hauling down and the destruction of icons of the Saddam Hussein regime. However, that quickly turned to looting. From the city, looting gangs then fanned out around to the villages, and that's when the trouble began.
So there's a wide swath of northern Iraq, which is now completely out of control.
BROWN: Michael, thank you for your work today. Michael War of "TIME" magazine reporting from Tikrit and the area around it.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.
