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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown
Garner: Restoring Water, Power Top Priorities
Aired April 21, 2003 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, HOST: Good evening, again. The retired general in charge of rebuilding Iraq was in Baghdad today -- saying somewhat modestly, "I don't rule anything."
Technically, perhaps, that's true. The Army runs the city as it takes baby steps towards its future.
We'll talk about returning to normal a bit tonight, but the word "normal" should be in quotes. It'll be a long time before the Iraqi capital and the rest of the country experiencing anything like normal.
It's in Baghdad where we start the work tonight. Nic Robertson is there for us. And Nic, start us off with a headline.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jay Garner visited a hospital, a sewage treatment plant, a power plant, and he seemed to get a fairly mixed reception from the small number of Iraqis he met here -- Aaron.
BROWN: Nic, thank you.
To the White House next. And the message it is sending to other nations after the victory in Iraq.
Our senior White House correspondent John King has the duty. John, a headline.
JOHN KING, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, we will hear more from the president this week about how he believes, quite soon, Iraq will be a model democracy -- causing a ripple effect across the Middle East. That is the message that is being viewed skeptically and, in some quarters in the region, suspiciously -- Aaron.
BROWN: John, thank you. An update now on the Laci Peterson case. And heartbreaking words today from her family. David Mattingly is in Modesto, California. David, a headline.
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, four months ago, the families of Scott and Laci Peterson believed they were the picture perfect couple. But now those families took their first steps inside a courtroom today, preparing for a trial that threatens to take them to the very depths of pain and anger -- Aaron.
BROWN: David, thank you. And the latest on SARS. And China -- taking steps to address the spread of the disease. Jaime FlorCruz is in Beijing for us. Jaime, a headline.
JAIME FLORCRUZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: SARS has infected over 2,000 Chinese and is still spreading. That's about one half of the world's total, and it's also exacted the first political casualties in the Chinese officialdom -- Aaron.
BROWN: Jaime, thank you. Back to you and the rest shortly.
Also coming up tonight over the next two hours of NEWSNIGHT, John Vause on the new normal in Iraqi city of Basra -- where the lights are back on mostly and the water is flowing mostly, but also where anxiety about the future is everywhere.
And the story of one American community demanding to know why one of their own is being held as part of the war on terrorism. That and more coming up.
But we begin with the day's developments.
It would be unthinkable even a month ago. A former Iraqi commander was captured, another in the Pentagon's deck of most wanted cards taken out.
Shiite Muslims were on the move in a religious march that had been banned for decades.
And a retired American general entered the capital city for what could be the toughest battle of his career.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you have no emergency power now?
BROWN: The Man named the by the Bush administration to oversee reconstruction of post-war Iraq got his first look at the problems in the capital on Monday -- and was not lacking in confidence.
GEN. JAY GARNER (RET.), U.S. ARMY: You're going to see the Iraqis fixing this country themselves. And we're going to facilitate that. We're going to help them where we can, where we can provide them with supplies, where we can get things for them, where we can give them assistance, we'll do that. But they're going to fix their country. And I have all the faith in the world that's going to happen.
BROWN: And as the Army began to man checkpoints across Baghdad, the Marines now are gone. The Pentagon said it had no grand scheme to keep a large American footprint inside Iraq.
DONALD RUMSFELD, U.S. SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: The impression that's left around the world is that we plan to occupy the country, we plan to use their bases over the long period of time. And it's flat false.
BROWN: There were very large Shiite demonstrations both in the capital and to the south. In Baghdad, thousands marched through the streets -- banners flying, voices raised -- demanding a majority role in the governing of the country. To the south in Karbala, tens of thousands marched, part of a religious pilgrimage not allowed under Saddam Hussein. Many flailing themselves with metal chains, a sign of sacrifice.
In the northern city of Mosul, American helicopters mounted with powerful cameras scanned the city. On the ground, tribal leaders began meeting in an effort to diffuse the tension caused last week when gunfire erupted between American troops and residents of the city.
And in Kirkuk, more weapons uncovered.
GEN. RICHARD MYERS, CHAIRMAN, JOINT CHIEFS: U.S. special forces discovered a very large weapons cache south of Kirkuk. This cache is in 40 different bunkers. It contains multiple rocket launch rockets, artillery rounds, and other munitions -- including, significantly, 50 SA-7s, the handheld surface to air missile.
BROWN: Another arrest of a man who had been a senior official in the old regime. He is Muhammad al-Zubaydi, the queen of spades in the deck of cards issued by central command.
In Baghdad, city police arrested a suspected bank robber while an American armored vehicle took up a position outside the bank. Interrogation methods were -- well, they were not gentle.
Otherwise, life was returning to normal -- bit by bit. Limited power restored. A few traffic lights working again. Hundreds lined up to apply for new jobs in a new government. And more markets were opened. Small shops like this. And street food was back with gusto.
That's the big picture. Tonight, we'll spend much of our Iraq coverage putting the smaller pictures into place. They form a large puzzle.
Clearly, the lead tonight is the visit by General Jay Garner to Baghdad. His early agenda seemed dominated by the most basic of things -- to get the lights on, to get the hospitals running, to get the garbage picked up.
The hard stuff will come after that -- helping to build a democracy, trying to get everyone to get along, and trying to keep a low profile through it all.
We go back to Baghdad and CNN's Nic Robertson.
ROBERTSON: On his first day in Baghdad, heading the U.S. reconstruction of Iraq, retired U.S. General Jay Garner seemed keen to play down local rumors he's come here to rule the country.
GARNER: I don't rule anything. I'm the coalition facilitator to establish a different environment where these people can pull things together themselves.
ROBERTSON: For now, pulling anything together here can be tough -- even lining up for fuel causes heated debate. Gassan (ph), the manager of the government-run filling station, weighs in to calm nerves shattered by war and looting. His message for Garner -- relieve the pressure on his station.
"Use the country's oil reserves," he says, "so that all the stations are operating. That will spread hope in the citizens' minds."
State fuel truck driver, Jasam (ph), has a more personal call -- "Honestly, our salaries are not enough. How can I live on less than a dollar a day?"
Opinions at the pumps, however, on whether Garner can deliver -- divided.
"We don't accept him," says Kadam (ph). "We need an Iraqi. What can he understand about us? We don't know him," says Yukub (ph). "We'll see how he does and then we'll have an idea."
A few miles away at the state-run Aldura (ph) oil refinery, Iraqi engineers have just restarted fuel production. Technicians tend government owned equipment -- much of which has seen only sporadic investment since U.S. companies first built the plant in 1952.
"Keeping this cash generating industry going," they say, "will actually need little help from Garner."
HUSSEIN SULIMAN ALI: Inside the refinery, now only the production refinery, not to help us in the operation.
ROBERTSON: At the gate, oil workers armed with Kalashnikovs keep guard, where less than a week ago they fought off looters. Here at the oil ministry, one of the only Iraqi government buildings where U.S. troops prevented looters destroying the premises, Iraqi officials have already begun talks to choose a new oil minister. Baghdad's self-appointed governor, Mohammad Zubaydi, who has yet to be recognized by Garner's office, plans sending his deputy as the top Iraqi representative to the OPEC meeting in Vienna this week.
For Garner, likely sorting the leadership post-war proved the trickiest of his early tasks -- restoring basic services his most pressing and reconstruction the most enduring -- no small feat for a man trying to keep a low profile.
And one of the things Mr. Garner has yet to do is to lay out a road map of how he will bring the different communities here together to get the kind of democracy, to get the kind of proportional representation, or whatever system it is to bring that new democracy here and keep all those different ethnic groups happy -- Aaron.
BROWN: In the meantime, we have a man who says he is the governor of Baghdad. Who recognizes him? And who is he connected to?
ROBERTSON: He's recognized, he says, by the people who elected him. Certainly no one we've talked to in Baghdad is aware that they've elected him. He is an exile. He has returned to Iraq. He does appear to have some sort of loose affiliations with Iraqi National Congress -- headed by Ahmad Chalabi. He has asserted himself in a very authoritarian way here. He does have a small following to a degree. He certainly doesn't have the support of many of the Shia (ph) elements who have already set up authority in other parts of the city.
So at this stage, he really seems to be acting on his own. But by default in that vacuum, he has already established himself as having some sort of a voice. Whether that voice diminishes and dies or whether it gains strength, really we just don't know at this time -- Aaron.
Nic, thank you. Nic Robertson in Baghdad tonight.
On to the debate over U.S. intentions in the region beyond Iraq. There's been enormous speculation about whether the United States plans more militarily action. There's been a lot of tough talk from the United States aimed at places like Syria and Iran. And after the show of American muscle in Iraq, the tough talk is making a lot of people in those countries very nervous, which seems to be the way the White House likes it.
More on the strategy from our senior White House correspondent, John King.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KING (voice-over): Iraq's post-war political direction is anything but clear. Yet already there is a ripple effect across the region.
MARTIN INDYK, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: The people see what's happening and say, why can't we have this for ourselves too? Why can't we have democracy? Why can't we have free demonstrations?
KING: Religious, ethnic and other rivalries make shaping post- war Iraq a daunting challenge, but the president talks optimistically of a model democracy.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We believe that people across the Middle East and across the world are weary of poverty, weary of oppression and yearn to be free.
KING: It is a message aimed squarely at Syria and Iran, two of Iraq's neighbors on less than friendly terms with Washington. But Mr. Bush's words are not going unnoticed in more friendly Arab capitals, like Riyadh and Cairo.
HISHAM MELHEM, AS-SAFIR: Neighboring states are not going to look kindly at the possibility of the flourishing of politics in Iraq or the empowerment of the Iraqi people, because they did not -- they are not going to empower their own people in any serious way.
KING: There are cautious democratic reforms under way in the region. Bahrain last year re-established its parliament, and women were among the voters and the candidates. Morocco's King Mohammed won international praise for last year's National Assembly elections, and Jordan's King Abdullah is taking modest steps toward economic and political reforms.
But Mr. Bush's talk of more dramatic reforms is viewed suspiciously by those in the region already worried about too much U.S. influence over the new Iraq.
MELHEM: The United States will be in a position to neutralize Syria, isolate Iran, marginalize Saudi Arabia, determine oil policy, determine the outcome of any Arab-Israeli negotiations. So this is how many governments see the American project, so to speak.
KING: And even many who applaud the president's focus suggest a go-slow approach in Iraq and across the region.
INDYK: We have to be always conscious that this process can be hijacked by people who are not democrats, who are extremists in religious garb, who have a very different definition of democracy, which is one vote, one time until they gain power.
KING: The dramatic events in Iraq are being covered extensively by Arab media outlets, and the White House believes images like these will leave other governments in the region no choice but to give their own citizens more of a voice.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: And the Bush White House insists the skepticism in the region will fade over time. They also, though, are very well aware here the next key test for the president is not only how Iraq develops in the weeks ahead, but how this president follows through on a promise to dedicate time and energy to trying to trying to get the Israelis and the Palestinians back to peace negotiations. The White house says the president is prepared to move forward but he cannot right now, this administration says, because there is still ongoing dispute between the Palestinian leader, Yasser Arafat, and his own hand-picked man to be the new Palestinian prime minister -- Aaron.
BROWN: What does move forward mean? Other than releasing the details of the road map, which are pretty much out there anyway, how does the -- how does the president engage in this?
KING: We are told the president will invite the new Palestinian prime minister, assuming Mr. Abu-Mazen, as he is called by some, Mahmoud Abbas he is called by others -- Yasser Arafat has never been invited to this White House. This new prime minister will be, if he is confirmed. Again, he is still in a fight with Yasser Arafat. He will be invited to come here to the White House. Secretary Powell will go to the region. The administration says it is ready to put pressure on the Sharon government and indeed says the Sharon government is sending signals in private that it is prepared to at least take the early steps in the road map.
Whether these two entities, the Palestinians and Israelis, can talk to each other is a huge open question right now. They have not, of course for, quite some time. Whether the president is prepared to knock heads, excuse the language, but that is what most believe is necessary, is the big question.
BROWN: John, thank you. Senior White House correspondent, John King.
Back now to Iraq. It was the first major Iraqi city under coalition control, a city of more than a million people in the south. The British surrounded Basra and for two weeks, kept mostly on the outskirts before making their final push towards the center of the city.
But Basra has been largely off the radar screen since the British took control. But a look at that city today gives a glimpse of the dimensions of the problems the entire country faces.
Here's CNN's John Vause.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's back to business for Basra's money changers. The Iraqi dinar, still with Saddam Hussein's portrait on every note, has strengthened in recent days. It cost almost 3,000 dinars to buy one U.S. dollar. Better than yesterday, when the rate was 3,500.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We don't have a fixed rate. Sometimes it's up, sometimes it's down, but it's normal now.
VAUSE: Normal is difficult to define these days in Basra. Youssef (ph) decided to reopen his ice cream parlor. Somehow, touched by war, spared by looters. He's even able to get milk again at high prices from Baghdad.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Everything is not normal. The situation is not normal. But I have to do something. I have to come to work if I'm going to survive.
VAUSE: And for many, simple survival has become abnormally hard. Fresh fruit and vegetables are in good supply, but prices, we're told, have doubled, in some cases tripled. Even the cost of a block of ice, now 12 U.S. cents. It was just a few cents before the war. For many of the city's poor, it is their only way to keep food fresh during the heat of the Iraqi day.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I worry about the future. Because how will they -- they have things like our salaries. Our salaries. Our jobs.
VAUSE: Ganan Yassin-Taha (ph) and her husband, Aladdin (ph), are like many Iraqis now struggling with the new reality. She's a doctor, he's a teacher. Their monthly government paychecks have stopped. They have no idea when they can go back to work or even if they'll be paid again. They have no money left, and after looters stole everything they owned, they're now living with relatives. They have little optimism life will improve anytime soon.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't think this year because everything -- everything in our country is destroyed. Everything.
VAUSE: Amid all the uncertainty and the difficulties to come, they still have hope that Iraq's children will inherit a better future.
(on camera): Life has settled into a certain normalcy here in Basra. The electricity is back on, although it does cut in and out, the water is flowing, and many stores have reopened. There's only the occasional sound of gunfire, mostly on the city outskirts and the looting has all but stopped.
And while life under Saddam was hard and miserable, there is now a new challenge -- living life without him.
John Vause, CNN, Basra.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Ahead on NEWSNIGHT for this Monday evening, Scott Peterson in court facing charges he murdered his wife and unborn son.
And new cases of SARS in China and political fallout as well. We'll have a report from Beijing as NEWSNIGHT continues on CNN.
BROWN: On Friday, Scott Peterson was arrested with around $10,000 in cash in his pockets, according to police. And just a half hour's drive from the Mexican border. Today he's looking at the walls of a 6 by 9 maximum security jail cell. Peterson was charged in the murder of his wife Laci and their unborn son today. Laci Peterson's family tried to explain what it's like to have your heart broken.
CNN's David Mattingly is in Modesto, California.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MATTINGLY (voice-over): In all, it took less than five minutes. Scott Peterson entering the courtroom, handcuffed and in shackles. He was clean-shaven and wearing a red jail jump suit. He declared he is not guilty of the charges of purchasing his wife Laci and their unborn son. No details of the crime were discussed in the arraignment, but this copy of the arrest warrant, released by the court today, shows police believe that Laci Peterson was killed in her Modesto home. Courtroom cameras were not allowed to show members of either family. But before the arraignment, in one stirring moment, Scott's mother, Jackie, approached the mother of Laci.
KELLY HUSTON, SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT: Mrs. Peterson went over and hugged Mrs. Rocha. It was really brief. Didn't appear to be any conversation. and then they went back to their -- Mrs. Peterson went back to her seat.
MATTINGLY: Laci's mother Sharon began crying as Scott Peterson entered the courtroom. In a surprise, Peterson said he was unable to pay for his own attorney. And was assigned a public defender. His former attorney of record urged the public to be skeptical of the case against his former client. KIRK MCALLISTER, SCOTT PETERSON'S FORMER ATTORNEY: The police had to make an arrest on this case or they would have looked like they were from Mayberry RFD.
MATTINGLY: The last word belonged to Laci's family.
RON GRANTSKI, LACI'S STEPFATHER: I know you'd like us to say something about Scott. But we're not going to do that. We owe to it Laci to let the courts bring the facts out. I'm not going to say anything that's going to jeopardizes all the hard work of so many young men and women.
MATTINGLY: Speaking at Modesto police headquarters action they express their gratitude to investigators and volunteers. The emotions after nearly four long months still overwhelming.
SHARON ROCHA, LACI'S MOTHER: Soon after Laci went missing I made a promise to her that if she's been harmed, we will seek justice for her and Conner and make sure that person responsible for their deaths will be punished. I can only hope that the sound of Laci's voice begging for her life, and begging for the life of her unborn child is heard over and over and over again in the mind of that person every day for the rest of his life.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MATTINGLY: This is sure to be a terribly emotional experience for both families. Scott Peterson's parents emerging from jail after meeting with their son, expressing the anger they have for Modesto Police.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEE PETERSON, SCOTT'S FATHER: We want the country to know our son is innocent. Our son is innocent, and that's going to come out. What was done here is just a terrible injustice. Several people know that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTINGLY: The Peterson's accusing the Modesto Police of what they say, bungling this case, saying the Rocha family has been deceived by investigators. Laci's stepfather seemed to be addressing comments speaking to Scott's parents saying, they did not deserve this.
But he added, Aaron, his family did not deserve this either.
BROWN: David Mattingly in Modesto, California.
We'll hear more from Laci Peterson's mother a little later in the hour. An unusually powerful statement she made, and we will play most of it coming up.
On other matters. First, the latest now on SARS. Something said in a commentary today in the Beijing "Star Daily, " "a cover-up is more scary than an epidemic." China tried to counter the impression it's been down- playing the spread of SARS. It's admitting many more people have it, and have died from it than it did last week. And now some government officials have now lost their jobs.
We go to CNN's, Jaime FlorCruz in Beijing.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAIME FLORCRUZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Public reaction has been mixed after Beijing officials announced drastic steps to curb the spread of SARS.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We get our information from two sources. The state media, and the unofficial channels. Usually the information are different. Now their numbers are getting closer.
FLORCRUZ: Chinese newspapers and TV channels now report there are over 400 confirmed patients in Beijing alone. Ten times the previous official count. And probably closer to the real situation, according to some world health organization estimates. International experts are pleased.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it shows that the government is very serious now in getting open and being transparent.
FLORCRUZ: Chinese leaders dismiss the health minister and Beijing mayor just days after warning against under counting and cover-up of SARS cases. The U.S. Senate majority leader visiting Beijing, complimented President Hu Jin Tao.
SEN. BILL FRIST (R-TN), MAJORITY LEADER: He took bold action while we were here in china to boldly and courageously address this virus. There has been increased reporting, increased commitment to prevention, increased commitment to treatment by President Hu.
FLORCRUZ: How widely SARS has spread in China remains an open- ended question. Experts worry about China's readiness, especially in the poorer inland provinces.
DR. HENK BEKEDAM, WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION: What we have learned so far with SARS, you don't need to be 100 percent ready, you need to be for 300 percent ready for SARS. Because if one or two cases if you miss them, you can have a small outbreak.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FLORCRUZ: Experts that say did China now needs to inform the public about what SARS is about, and what role they can play in containing the dreaded disease. It may also help prevent the outbreak of mass panic -- Aaron
BROWN: Is there evidence it has in fact spread through the entire country, all across the country?
FLORCRUZ: There are reports the most recent reports indicating it has spread to several other provinces in China including the poorer inland provinces, and that's a cause of serious concern among the experts in Beijing -- Aaron
BROWN: Jaime, thank you very much. Jaime FlorCruz in Beijing tonight.
Tonight, coming up on NEWSNIGHT, after a brief update of the headlines in both the news and business world, we'll take a look at the economic impact of SARS across Asia, and that too could spread.
And later, the story of one American citizen and questions of just why he has been arrested. Around the world this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: And coming up next on NEWSNIGHT: how SARS is doing more than just making people sick. It's making the economy sick as well.
A break first. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: New York's mayor recently ate lunch in Chinatown. And it wasn't because he had a hunkering -- or a hankering, every -- for dim sum. He was trying to show confidence in a place where the fear of SARS is hurting the economy. But compared to other spots around the globe, Chinatown in New York has it easy. SARS has created an economic disaster in many Asian countries, emptying hotels, restaurants, airports. And the ripple effects are starting to be felt worldwide.
Our next guest says the problem is bad and getting worse all the time. We're joined by Bill Powell, chief international correspondent for "Fortune" magazine.
Nice to have you with us.
China -- at least the tourist part of China is getting hammered, right?
BILL POWELL, "FORTUNE": Absolutely, and worse all the time.
Hong Kong as a main gateway to China. You have hotel occupancy rates at 20 percent or less. Now with the news out of Beijing, with the number of cases there, similar low occupancy rates, it's a disaster for the airlines, for the hotels, and all the ancillary businesses that have to do with tourism.
BROWN: All the restaurants and the shops.
POWELL: Absolutely.
BROWN: You have in Hong Kong this convergence of international capitalism. Is business getting done or not?
POWELL: My sense is, basically not.
You have no one going to Hong Kong, no one coming out of Hong Kong. Friends of mine, bankers working for Western banks, as well as Chinese banks, basically say, we're grounded. They can meet with each other, but they can't meet with anyone else. To the extent that business is getting done, it's getting done over the phone.
BROWN: So the extent that, let's say, an American company wants to open or has thought about opening a factory in China, which is a very common thing these days...
POWELL: Absolutely. You bet.
BROWN: That's stopping?
POWELL: You had $50 billion in foreign direct investment in China last year. That is $50 billion in foreign companies investing in the mainland. For the moment, that is frozen.
There's not a lot of statistical evidence of that, because this is such a recent phenomenon. But, basically, if you don't have anyone going there, you're not going to have anyone investing. And the Chinese are very concerned about this.
BROWN: And Singapore is starting to feel the sting of this also?
POWELL: Basically, all of Southeast Asia is now, economists say, in recession. That is, their economies are contracting because of this.
BROWN: Because of this.
POWELL: Because of this, absolutely. Hong Kong is a disaster.
And the Chinese reported a very strong growth rate in the first quarter, 9.9 percent, I think. But they're not going to report that kind of numbers, that kind of strength in the second quarter.
BROWN: And even in countries where there are no confirmed cases, Thailand, I believe, I read an article today that the hotels in Phuket are emptying out. They can't give away a room.
POWELL: No doubt true. No doubt true. Malaysia as well, where I think there are a few cases, basically has banned tourism to and from China.
The Chinese, middle-class Chinese, in huge numbers, were beginning to travel within the region. This is a disaster for Southeast Asian tourism, not just because Americans and wealthy Europeans aren't going there, because Chinese themselves aren't going there.
BROWN: Now, at what point does this start to come home? POWELL: Well, that's what's scary, is that we don't know. They haven't contained it. They don't really know how it is -- fully how it's transmitted yet. To date, we have very few cases confirmed in the U.S. But, already, as your intro indicated, you have Chinatowns in the West, in the U.S., beginning to feel the pinch.
If we get an increasing number of cases confirmed in the U.S., they're...
BROWN: Let me ask it differently, because I don't necessarily understand all this money stuff. At what point does a recession in Southeast Asia, China, Hong Kong, Singapore, Thailand, Malaysia and the rest, at what point does that become an economic problem in Cleveland?
POWELL: Well, I think, to an extent, it already is. The question is how great an economic problem it's going to become.
Some economists -- Stephen Roach at Morgan Stanley, for example, has already said that the contraction in East Asia because of this basically is going to create a -- is going to tip the world into a global recession this year, that is to say that the U.S. might grow relatively slowly, but that if you have a part of the world, and in particular China, which was becoming -- on the brink of becoming a locomotive for global growth. If you have significant reduction in growth rates in China and in Southeast Asia, it's going to cut growth rates everywhere.
And then, if you get more cases confirmed in the U.S., that's obviously a nightmare scenario. We're not there yet. Let's hope we don't get there. But then all bets are off, if that happens.
BROWN: Bill, thanks for coming in. Nice to meet you. Thank you.
POWELL: Thank you.
BROWN: Scary, all of this.
POWELL: Absolutely.
BROWN: Thank you.
Still to come on NEWSNIGHT: a town that said no to the Patriot Act and the story of one citizen caught up in the provisions of the act.
We'll take a break first. Then NEWSNIGHT continues from New York.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Imagine that someone you knew and worked with for years, a neighbor, a friend, a fellow citizen, was one day taken into custody by the government, held without being charged, with no explanation of what he allegedly did. The friends of a man in Oregon don't have to imagine. Their friend was taken in. They want to know why. And the federal government won't say. Welcome to an uncomfortable reality of the war on terror and the attendant fear that this too is part of the new normal.
Here's CNN's Jeff Flock.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STEVE MCGEADY, FRIEND OF HAWASH: The KXL news guy called me yesterday and I blew him off.
JEFF FLOCK, CNN CHICAGO BUREAU CHIEF: Steve McGeady and his friends never planned to be activists.
MCGEADY: When are we going to have another rally?
FLOCK: The ex-Intel computer exec and his former colleagues long trusted their government and didn't question it.
MCGEADY: What breaks that trust is when they pick up somebody. He's not charged with a crime. He's held as a witness, but he's held in solitary confinement and in secret. That's the part that just blows us away.
FLOCK: The somebody is this man, 38-year-old Mike Hawash, American citizen, a wife and three kids, headed for his consulting job at Intel in the Portland, Oregon, suburbs a month ago, when FBI agents with bulletproof vests and guns arrested him. More FBI descended here on his house, waking his wife and children, taking files and computers.
Hawash is being held as a material witness. To what, the government won't say. All hearings have been closed. And though he has lawyers, the judge has forbidden them to talk.
(on camera): What makes you most angry about all of this?
MCGEADY: The secrecy. It's what makes me both angry and afraid.
FLOCK: The secrecy means the government won't say why he is being held, whether he is a suspect in anything, whether or when he may appear before a grand jury. They won't even say where he is, though his wife has been visiting him here at the federal detention center in Sheridan, Oregon.
(voice-over): The material witness statute is often used to detain those called before a grand jury whom the government thinks may not show up.
SUSAN MANDIBERG, PROFESSOR, LEWIS AND CLARK COLLEGE: On the face of it, the statute has some usefulness in making sure that people who have evidence that's important in a criminal case be around to present it. FLOCK: According to government sources, approximately two dozen material witnesses have been taken into custody since September 11, 2002, held, like Hawash, without charge or explanation.
DAVID FIDANQUE, ACLU: Most of us aren't aware of it. And the Justice Department wants to keep it that way.
FLOCK: A spokesman at Justice tells CNN, "Laws governing grand jury secrecy prevent us from commenting." Law enforcement forces tell CNN that Hawash is being held in connection with the so-called Portland six, accused of being an al Qaeda cell. He attended the same mosque as two of the six.
ROHAN COELHO, FRIEND: If that's the case, do you round them all up?
FLOCK (on camera): Just because you know somebody.
COELHO: Just because you somebody.
FLOCK (voice-over): Rohan Coelho was best man at Mike's wedding and wrote this computer book with him. He says, knowing a fellow Muslim in the relatively small Muslim community in Portland isn't a crime. If they have evidence against his friend, he asks, why not charge him?
FLOCK (on camera): Is there any way in your mind that he could be involved?
COELHO: Knowing Mike, I don't think so.
FLOCK (voice-over): And so his friends have become reluctant activists, organizing a rally to support him and the old Intel hand setting up a Web site, FreeMikeHawash.org, to spread word about his plight.
On it, they've just posted this letter, the first anyone's heard from him. "On the outside, I took things for granted," it begins. "In solitary, my world is limited, controlled, mandated. It really makes you think and appreciate what you have. It did for me. I hope you learn, too."
Mike Hawash is supposed to be in court at the end of this month. But the proceedings again will be closed.
I'm Jeff Flock, CNN, Portland, Oregon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: That's the story of one community struggling with the tradeoffs of the war on terror. This is the story of another: Arcata, California.
The city has become the first in the nation to pass an ordinance telling town officials not to comply with the Patriot Act, that law passed a month after September 11. Supporters say the Patriot Act gives up too many civil liberties in giving the government more power to fight terrorism.
We're joined tonight by David Meserve. He's an Arcata city council member who drafted the ordinance. He joins us from Portland, Oregon, tonight.
What is it, David, that you don't want the city to comply with?
DAVID MESERVE, CITY COUNCIL MEMBER, ARCATA, CALIFORNIA: Well, what we've done is crafted an ordinance which, first of all, says that the city will not participate in any profiling, according to, say, national origin, as we've seen happen all across the country.
And further than that, we're asking -- or, actually, instructing our management employees not to cooperate in any investigations where they feel the investigations are unconstitutional or in violation of the Bill of Rights.
BROWN: Give me an example. What is it in the law that you find offensive?
MESERVE: Well, within the Patriot Act, there are provisions which violate the First, Fourth, Fifth Sixth, Eighth, and 14th amendments to the Constitution. And that's quite a list of violations.
But among them are some of the ones that everybody just heard about in the previous story: holding people without due process, not allowing them access to a lawyer, listening in on conversations with lawyers, etcetera. And, in Arcata, we had passed a resolution opposing the Patriot Act. But we figured that we'd go the next step and pass an ordinance saying that we will not comply with this law that we feel goes dead against the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
BROWN: But whether it violates any amendment of the Bill of Rights or any part of the Constitution is for courts to decide, isn't it, not for the city council in one city or another?
MESERVE: Well, actually, how does something get to the courts? One has to ask that question. And so far, those who oppose the Patriot Act have been unable to find cases which really have the ability to lead to a higher court, because most of these cases have been directed at noncitizens.
Now, certainly, they're pursuing some cases. And I'm sure they will be pursuing ones like the one in the previous story. But we figure that we need to, in the American tradition, get out there and say, no, we will not violate the Bill of Rights. This actually occurred back in 1798, when they passed the Alien and Sedition Acts. There were was called the Kentucky Resolution and the Virginia Resolution that were written by Jefferson and Madison, respectively, that said, no, Kentucky and Virginia will not comply with these laws, because they are against the Constitution.
BROWN: So if an FBI agent from San Francisco comes up to your town and says to the head of the police department, the police chief, we're going to put -- help us put a phone tap on Dave's phone, you expect the police chief to say no?
MESERVE: Well, certainly, if they have a valid warrant from a valid court, they would go ahead and cooperate. But if they only had a warrant from the Federal Intelligence Surveillance Court, which is the secret court which provides these warrants under the Patriot Act, the answer would be, no, we must report this to the city manager and they will report it to the city council. And if it goes that far, the city council will consider what to do next.
BROWN: David, it's nice to meet you. We'll follow the path of the ordinance to see how it ends up. We appreciate your time tonight.
MESERVE: Well, please do. And thank you for having me on.
BROWN: Thank you, David Meserve, city councilman in Arcata, California.
Next on NEWSNIGHT: seven segment and the compelling statement made this evening by the mother of Laci Peterson.
We take a break. Then NEWSNIGHT continues from New York.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Children are not supposed to die before their parents. We can't imagine how a parent feels when their child dies, even more so when the child dies needlessly and violently.
Sharon Rocha tried to make us understand how she feels. Her child was Laci Peterson.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROCHA: On December 24, 2002, shortly after 5:15 p.m., I received a phone call and heard the devastating words that forever changed my life. Laci is missing. I knew in my heart that something terrible had happened to my daughter and my grandson. My world collapsed around me.
Since receiving that phone call, we've been living a terrible nightmare. The search for Laci began that night. The questions were always there. What happened to Laci? Where is she? Is she safe? And who took her from me? I made a plea to the person or persons who took her to please, please let her go and send her home to us. We heard nothing.
As the days passed, I made more pleas to take her to a hospital or a fire police station, or tell us where she is so that we could come to her and bring her and her baby home safely. But still, we heard nothing.
We searched and searched and searched and still, no Laci.
I love my daughter so much. I miss her every minute of every day. My heart aches for her and Connor. Without them, there's a huge void in my life. I literally get sick to my stomach when I allow myself to think about what may have happened to them. No parent should ever have to think about the way their child was murdered.
In my mind, I keep hearing Laci say to me, Mom, please find me and Connor and bring us home. I'm scared. Please don't leave us out here all alone. I want to come home. Please don't stop looking for us.
I feel that Laci and Connor could no longer wait to be found. The last week they came to us. Laci and Connor left us on Christmas Eve. I know that God has been watching over them. He sent them back to us on Good Friday. Now we can bring them home where they belong.
Laci and her unborn child did not deserve to die. They certainly did not deserve to be dumped in the bay and sent to a watery grave as though their lives were meaningless.
Laci meant the world to me. She was my only daughter. She was my best friend. We miss her beautiful smile, her laughter, her love, and her kind and loving ways. I miss seeing her, talking to her, and hugging her. We've been deprived of meeting and knowing Laci's son, our grandson and nephew. We will miss them and mourn them for the rest of our lives.
Soon after Laci went missing, I made a promise to her, that if she has been harmed, we will seek justice for her and Connor and make sure that that person responsible for their deaths will be punished. I can only hope that the sound of Laci's voice begging for her life and begging for the life of her unborn child is heard over and over and over again in the mind of that person every day for the rest of his life. The person responsible should be held accountable and punished for the tragedy and devastation forced upon so many of us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: In the next hour of NEWSNIGHT, we'll have more on the Peterson case.
Also tonight, we'll go live to Karbala, as Iraqi Shiites celebrate a holiday, a holiday that had been banned under Saddam Hussein. So we'll take you there. And we'll talk with a reporter who's gotten a peek at Saddam's secret papers -- all of that in the second hour of NEWSNIGHT on this Monday from New York.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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Aired April 21, 2003 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, HOST: Good evening, again. The retired general in charge of rebuilding Iraq was in Baghdad today -- saying somewhat modestly, "I don't rule anything."
Technically, perhaps, that's true. The Army runs the city as it takes baby steps towards its future.
We'll talk about returning to normal a bit tonight, but the word "normal" should be in quotes. It'll be a long time before the Iraqi capital and the rest of the country experiencing anything like normal.
It's in Baghdad where we start the work tonight. Nic Robertson is there for us. And Nic, start us off with a headline.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jay Garner visited a hospital, a sewage treatment plant, a power plant, and he seemed to get a fairly mixed reception from the small number of Iraqis he met here -- Aaron.
BROWN: Nic, thank you.
To the White House next. And the message it is sending to other nations after the victory in Iraq.
Our senior White House correspondent John King has the duty. John, a headline.
JOHN KING, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, we will hear more from the president this week about how he believes, quite soon, Iraq will be a model democracy -- causing a ripple effect across the Middle East. That is the message that is being viewed skeptically and, in some quarters in the region, suspiciously -- Aaron.
BROWN: John, thank you. An update now on the Laci Peterson case. And heartbreaking words today from her family. David Mattingly is in Modesto, California. David, a headline.
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, four months ago, the families of Scott and Laci Peterson believed they were the picture perfect couple. But now those families took their first steps inside a courtroom today, preparing for a trial that threatens to take them to the very depths of pain and anger -- Aaron.
BROWN: David, thank you. And the latest on SARS. And China -- taking steps to address the spread of the disease. Jaime FlorCruz is in Beijing for us. Jaime, a headline.
JAIME FLORCRUZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: SARS has infected over 2,000 Chinese and is still spreading. That's about one half of the world's total, and it's also exacted the first political casualties in the Chinese officialdom -- Aaron.
BROWN: Jaime, thank you. Back to you and the rest shortly.
Also coming up tonight over the next two hours of NEWSNIGHT, John Vause on the new normal in Iraqi city of Basra -- where the lights are back on mostly and the water is flowing mostly, but also where anxiety about the future is everywhere.
And the story of one American community demanding to know why one of their own is being held as part of the war on terrorism. That and more coming up.
But we begin with the day's developments.
It would be unthinkable even a month ago. A former Iraqi commander was captured, another in the Pentagon's deck of most wanted cards taken out.
Shiite Muslims were on the move in a religious march that had been banned for decades.
And a retired American general entered the capital city for what could be the toughest battle of his career.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you have no emergency power now?
BROWN: The Man named the by the Bush administration to oversee reconstruction of post-war Iraq got his first look at the problems in the capital on Monday -- and was not lacking in confidence.
GEN. JAY GARNER (RET.), U.S. ARMY: You're going to see the Iraqis fixing this country themselves. And we're going to facilitate that. We're going to help them where we can, where we can provide them with supplies, where we can get things for them, where we can give them assistance, we'll do that. But they're going to fix their country. And I have all the faith in the world that's going to happen.
BROWN: And as the Army began to man checkpoints across Baghdad, the Marines now are gone. The Pentagon said it had no grand scheme to keep a large American footprint inside Iraq.
DONALD RUMSFELD, U.S. SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: The impression that's left around the world is that we plan to occupy the country, we plan to use their bases over the long period of time. And it's flat false.
BROWN: There were very large Shiite demonstrations both in the capital and to the south. In Baghdad, thousands marched through the streets -- banners flying, voices raised -- demanding a majority role in the governing of the country. To the south in Karbala, tens of thousands marched, part of a religious pilgrimage not allowed under Saddam Hussein. Many flailing themselves with metal chains, a sign of sacrifice.
In the northern city of Mosul, American helicopters mounted with powerful cameras scanned the city. On the ground, tribal leaders began meeting in an effort to diffuse the tension caused last week when gunfire erupted between American troops and residents of the city.
And in Kirkuk, more weapons uncovered.
GEN. RICHARD MYERS, CHAIRMAN, JOINT CHIEFS: U.S. special forces discovered a very large weapons cache south of Kirkuk. This cache is in 40 different bunkers. It contains multiple rocket launch rockets, artillery rounds, and other munitions -- including, significantly, 50 SA-7s, the handheld surface to air missile.
BROWN: Another arrest of a man who had been a senior official in the old regime. He is Muhammad al-Zubaydi, the queen of spades in the deck of cards issued by central command.
In Baghdad, city police arrested a suspected bank robber while an American armored vehicle took up a position outside the bank. Interrogation methods were -- well, they were not gentle.
Otherwise, life was returning to normal -- bit by bit. Limited power restored. A few traffic lights working again. Hundreds lined up to apply for new jobs in a new government. And more markets were opened. Small shops like this. And street food was back with gusto.
That's the big picture. Tonight, we'll spend much of our Iraq coverage putting the smaller pictures into place. They form a large puzzle.
Clearly, the lead tonight is the visit by General Jay Garner to Baghdad. His early agenda seemed dominated by the most basic of things -- to get the lights on, to get the hospitals running, to get the garbage picked up.
The hard stuff will come after that -- helping to build a democracy, trying to get everyone to get along, and trying to keep a low profile through it all.
We go back to Baghdad and CNN's Nic Robertson.
ROBERTSON: On his first day in Baghdad, heading the U.S. reconstruction of Iraq, retired U.S. General Jay Garner seemed keen to play down local rumors he's come here to rule the country.
GARNER: I don't rule anything. I'm the coalition facilitator to establish a different environment where these people can pull things together themselves.
ROBERTSON: For now, pulling anything together here can be tough -- even lining up for fuel causes heated debate. Gassan (ph), the manager of the government-run filling station, weighs in to calm nerves shattered by war and looting. His message for Garner -- relieve the pressure on his station.
"Use the country's oil reserves," he says, "so that all the stations are operating. That will spread hope in the citizens' minds."
State fuel truck driver, Jasam (ph), has a more personal call -- "Honestly, our salaries are not enough. How can I live on less than a dollar a day?"
Opinions at the pumps, however, on whether Garner can deliver -- divided.
"We don't accept him," says Kadam (ph). "We need an Iraqi. What can he understand about us? We don't know him," says Yukub (ph). "We'll see how he does and then we'll have an idea."
A few miles away at the state-run Aldura (ph) oil refinery, Iraqi engineers have just restarted fuel production. Technicians tend government owned equipment -- much of which has seen only sporadic investment since U.S. companies first built the plant in 1952.
"Keeping this cash generating industry going," they say, "will actually need little help from Garner."
HUSSEIN SULIMAN ALI: Inside the refinery, now only the production refinery, not to help us in the operation.
ROBERTSON: At the gate, oil workers armed with Kalashnikovs keep guard, where less than a week ago they fought off looters. Here at the oil ministry, one of the only Iraqi government buildings where U.S. troops prevented looters destroying the premises, Iraqi officials have already begun talks to choose a new oil minister. Baghdad's self-appointed governor, Mohammad Zubaydi, who has yet to be recognized by Garner's office, plans sending his deputy as the top Iraqi representative to the OPEC meeting in Vienna this week.
For Garner, likely sorting the leadership post-war proved the trickiest of his early tasks -- restoring basic services his most pressing and reconstruction the most enduring -- no small feat for a man trying to keep a low profile.
And one of the things Mr. Garner has yet to do is to lay out a road map of how he will bring the different communities here together to get the kind of democracy, to get the kind of proportional representation, or whatever system it is to bring that new democracy here and keep all those different ethnic groups happy -- Aaron.
BROWN: In the meantime, we have a man who says he is the governor of Baghdad. Who recognizes him? And who is he connected to?
ROBERTSON: He's recognized, he says, by the people who elected him. Certainly no one we've talked to in Baghdad is aware that they've elected him. He is an exile. He has returned to Iraq. He does appear to have some sort of loose affiliations with Iraqi National Congress -- headed by Ahmad Chalabi. He has asserted himself in a very authoritarian way here. He does have a small following to a degree. He certainly doesn't have the support of many of the Shia (ph) elements who have already set up authority in other parts of the city.
So at this stage, he really seems to be acting on his own. But by default in that vacuum, he has already established himself as having some sort of a voice. Whether that voice diminishes and dies or whether it gains strength, really we just don't know at this time -- Aaron.
Nic, thank you. Nic Robertson in Baghdad tonight.
On to the debate over U.S. intentions in the region beyond Iraq. There's been enormous speculation about whether the United States plans more militarily action. There's been a lot of tough talk from the United States aimed at places like Syria and Iran. And after the show of American muscle in Iraq, the tough talk is making a lot of people in those countries very nervous, which seems to be the way the White House likes it.
More on the strategy from our senior White House correspondent, John King.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KING (voice-over): Iraq's post-war political direction is anything but clear. Yet already there is a ripple effect across the region.
MARTIN INDYK, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: The people see what's happening and say, why can't we have this for ourselves too? Why can't we have democracy? Why can't we have free demonstrations?
KING: Religious, ethnic and other rivalries make shaping post- war Iraq a daunting challenge, but the president talks optimistically of a model democracy.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We believe that people across the Middle East and across the world are weary of poverty, weary of oppression and yearn to be free.
KING: It is a message aimed squarely at Syria and Iran, two of Iraq's neighbors on less than friendly terms with Washington. But Mr. Bush's words are not going unnoticed in more friendly Arab capitals, like Riyadh and Cairo.
HISHAM MELHEM, AS-SAFIR: Neighboring states are not going to look kindly at the possibility of the flourishing of politics in Iraq or the empowerment of the Iraqi people, because they did not -- they are not going to empower their own people in any serious way.
KING: There are cautious democratic reforms under way in the region. Bahrain last year re-established its parliament, and women were among the voters and the candidates. Morocco's King Mohammed won international praise for last year's National Assembly elections, and Jordan's King Abdullah is taking modest steps toward economic and political reforms.
But Mr. Bush's talk of more dramatic reforms is viewed suspiciously by those in the region already worried about too much U.S. influence over the new Iraq.
MELHEM: The United States will be in a position to neutralize Syria, isolate Iran, marginalize Saudi Arabia, determine oil policy, determine the outcome of any Arab-Israeli negotiations. So this is how many governments see the American project, so to speak.
KING: And even many who applaud the president's focus suggest a go-slow approach in Iraq and across the region.
INDYK: We have to be always conscious that this process can be hijacked by people who are not democrats, who are extremists in religious garb, who have a very different definition of democracy, which is one vote, one time until they gain power.
KING: The dramatic events in Iraq are being covered extensively by Arab media outlets, and the White House believes images like these will leave other governments in the region no choice but to give their own citizens more of a voice.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: And the Bush White House insists the skepticism in the region will fade over time. They also, though, are very well aware here the next key test for the president is not only how Iraq develops in the weeks ahead, but how this president follows through on a promise to dedicate time and energy to trying to trying to get the Israelis and the Palestinians back to peace negotiations. The White house says the president is prepared to move forward but he cannot right now, this administration says, because there is still ongoing dispute between the Palestinian leader, Yasser Arafat, and his own hand-picked man to be the new Palestinian prime minister -- Aaron.
BROWN: What does move forward mean? Other than releasing the details of the road map, which are pretty much out there anyway, how does the -- how does the president engage in this?
KING: We are told the president will invite the new Palestinian prime minister, assuming Mr. Abu-Mazen, as he is called by some, Mahmoud Abbas he is called by others -- Yasser Arafat has never been invited to this White House. This new prime minister will be, if he is confirmed. Again, he is still in a fight with Yasser Arafat. He will be invited to come here to the White House. Secretary Powell will go to the region. The administration says it is ready to put pressure on the Sharon government and indeed says the Sharon government is sending signals in private that it is prepared to at least take the early steps in the road map.
Whether these two entities, the Palestinians and Israelis, can talk to each other is a huge open question right now. They have not, of course for, quite some time. Whether the president is prepared to knock heads, excuse the language, but that is what most believe is necessary, is the big question.
BROWN: John, thank you. Senior White House correspondent, John King.
Back now to Iraq. It was the first major Iraqi city under coalition control, a city of more than a million people in the south. The British surrounded Basra and for two weeks, kept mostly on the outskirts before making their final push towards the center of the city.
But Basra has been largely off the radar screen since the British took control. But a look at that city today gives a glimpse of the dimensions of the problems the entire country faces.
Here's CNN's John Vause.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's back to business for Basra's money changers. The Iraqi dinar, still with Saddam Hussein's portrait on every note, has strengthened in recent days. It cost almost 3,000 dinars to buy one U.S. dollar. Better than yesterday, when the rate was 3,500.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We don't have a fixed rate. Sometimes it's up, sometimes it's down, but it's normal now.
VAUSE: Normal is difficult to define these days in Basra. Youssef (ph) decided to reopen his ice cream parlor. Somehow, touched by war, spared by looters. He's even able to get milk again at high prices from Baghdad.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Everything is not normal. The situation is not normal. But I have to do something. I have to come to work if I'm going to survive.
VAUSE: And for many, simple survival has become abnormally hard. Fresh fruit and vegetables are in good supply, but prices, we're told, have doubled, in some cases tripled. Even the cost of a block of ice, now 12 U.S. cents. It was just a few cents before the war. For many of the city's poor, it is their only way to keep food fresh during the heat of the Iraqi day.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I worry about the future. Because how will they -- they have things like our salaries. Our salaries. Our jobs.
VAUSE: Ganan Yassin-Taha (ph) and her husband, Aladdin (ph), are like many Iraqis now struggling with the new reality. She's a doctor, he's a teacher. Their monthly government paychecks have stopped. They have no idea when they can go back to work or even if they'll be paid again. They have no money left, and after looters stole everything they owned, they're now living with relatives. They have little optimism life will improve anytime soon.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't think this year because everything -- everything in our country is destroyed. Everything.
VAUSE: Amid all the uncertainty and the difficulties to come, they still have hope that Iraq's children will inherit a better future.
(on camera): Life has settled into a certain normalcy here in Basra. The electricity is back on, although it does cut in and out, the water is flowing, and many stores have reopened. There's only the occasional sound of gunfire, mostly on the city outskirts and the looting has all but stopped.
And while life under Saddam was hard and miserable, there is now a new challenge -- living life without him.
John Vause, CNN, Basra.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Ahead on NEWSNIGHT for this Monday evening, Scott Peterson in court facing charges he murdered his wife and unborn son.
And new cases of SARS in China and political fallout as well. We'll have a report from Beijing as NEWSNIGHT continues on CNN.
BROWN: On Friday, Scott Peterson was arrested with around $10,000 in cash in his pockets, according to police. And just a half hour's drive from the Mexican border. Today he's looking at the walls of a 6 by 9 maximum security jail cell. Peterson was charged in the murder of his wife Laci and their unborn son today. Laci Peterson's family tried to explain what it's like to have your heart broken.
CNN's David Mattingly is in Modesto, California.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MATTINGLY (voice-over): In all, it took less than five minutes. Scott Peterson entering the courtroom, handcuffed and in shackles. He was clean-shaven and wearing a red jail jump suit. He declared he is not guilty of the charges of purchasing his wife Laci and their unborn son. No details of the crime were discussed in the arraignment, but this copy of the arrest warrant, released by the court today, shows police believe that Laci Peterson was killed in her Modesto home. Courtroom cameras were not allowed to show members of either family. But before the arraignment, in one stirring moment, Scott's mother, Jackie, approached the mother of Laci.
KELLY HUSTON, SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT: Mrs. Peterson went over and hugged Mrs. Rocha. It was really brief. Didn't appear to be any conversation. and then they went back to their -- Mrs. Peterson went back to her seat.
MATTINGLY: Laci's mother Sharon began crying as Scott Peterson entered the courtroom. In a surprise, Peterson said he was unable to pay for his own attorney. And was assigned a public defender. His former attorney of record urged the public to be skeptical of the case against his former client. KIRK MCALLISTER, SCOTT PETERSON'S FORMER ATTORNEY: The police had to make an arrest on this case or they would have looked like they were from Mayberry RFD.
MATTINGLY: The last word belonged to Laci's family.
RON GRANTSKI, LACI'S STEPFATHER: I know you'd like us to say something about Scott. But we're not going to do that. We owe to it Laci to let the courts bring the facts out. I'm not going to say anything that's going to jeopardizes all the hard work of so many young men and women.
MATTINGLY: Speaking at Modesto police headquarters action they express their gratitude to investigators and volunteers. The emotions after nearly four long months still overwhelming.
SHARON ROCHA, LACI'S MOTHER: Soon after Laci went missing I made a promise to her that if she's been harmed, we will seek justice for her and Conner and make sure that person responsible for their deaths will be punished. I can only hope that the sound of Laci's voice begging for her life, and begging for the life of her unborn child is heard over and over and over again in the mind of that person every day for the rest of his life.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MATTINGLY: This is sure to be a terribly emotional experience for both families. Scott Peterson's parents emerging from jail after meeting with their son, expressing the anger they have for Modesto Police.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEE PETERSON, SCOTT'S FATHER: We want the country to know our son is innocent. Our son is innocent, and that's going to come out. What was done here is just a terrible injustice. Several people know that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTINGLY: The Peterson's accusing the Modesto Police of what they say, bungling this case, saying the Rocha family has been deceived by investigators. Laci's stepfather seemed to be addressing comments speaking to Scott's parents saying, they did not deserve this.
But he added, Aaron, his family did not deserve this either.
BROWN: David Mattingly in Modesto, California.
We'll hear more from Laci Peterson's mother a little later in the hour. An unusually powerful statement she made, and we will play most of it coming up.
On other matters. First, the latest now on SARS. Something said in a commentary today in the Beijing "Star Daily, " "a cover-up is more scary than an epidemic." China tried to counter the impression it's been down- playing the spread of SARS. It's admitting many more people have it, and have died from it than it did last week. And now some government officials have now lost their jobs.
We go to CNN's, Jaime FlorCruz in Beijing.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAIME FLORCRUZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Public reaction has been mixed after Beijing officials announced drastic steps to curb the spread of SARS.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We get our information from two sources. The state media, and the unofficial channels. Usually the information are different. Now their numbers are getting closer.
FLORCRUZ: Chinese newspapers and TV channels now report there are over 400 confirmed patients in Beijing alone. Ten times the previous official count. And probably closer to the real situation, according to some world health organization estimates. International experts are pleased.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it shows that the government is very serious now in getting open and being transparent.
FLORCRUZ: Chinese leaders dismiss the health minister and Beijing mayor just days after warning against under counting and cover-up of SARS cases. The U.S. Senate majority leader visiting Beijing, complimented President Hu Jin Tao.
SEN. BILL FRIST (R-TN), MAJORITY LEADER: He took bold action while we were here in china to boldly and courageously address this virus. There has been increased reporting, increased commitment to prevention, increased commitment to treatment by President Hu.
FLORCRUZ: How widely SARS has spread in China remains an open- ended question. Experts worry about China's readiness, especially in the poorer inland provinces.
DR. HENK BEKEDAM, WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION: What we have learned so far with SARS, you don't need to be 100 percent ready, you need to be for 300 percent ready for SARS. Because if one or two cases if you miss them, you can have a small outbreak.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FLORCRUZ: Experts that say did China now needs to inform the public about what SARS is about, and what role they can play in containing the dreaded disease. It may also help prevent the outbreak of mass panic -- Aaron
BROWN: Is there evidence it has in fact spread through the entire country, all across the country?
FLORCRUZ: There are reports the most recent reports indicating it has spread to several other provinces in China including the poorer inland provinces, and that's a cause of serious concern among the experts in Beijing -- Aaron
BROWN: Jaime, thank you very much. Jaime FlorCruz in Beijing tonight.
Tonight, coming up on NEWSNIGHT, after a brief update of the headlines in both the news and business world, we'll take a look at the economic impact of SARS across Asia, and that too could spread.
And later, the story of one American citizen and questions of just why he has been arrested. Around the world this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: And coming up next on NEWSNIGHT: how SARS is doing more than just making people sick. It's making the economy sick as well.
A break first. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: New York's mayor recently ate lunch in Chinatown. And it wasn't because he had a hunkering -- or a hankering, every -- for dim sum. He was trying to show confidence in a place where the fear of SARS is hurting the economy. But compared to other spots around the globe, Chinatown in New York has it easy. SARS has created an economic disaster in many Asian countries, emptying hotels, restaurants, airports. And the ripple effects are starting to be felt worldwide.
Our next guest says the problem is bad and getting worse all the time. We're joined by Bill Powell, chief international correspondent for "Fortune" magazine.
Nice to have you with us.
China -- at least the tourist part of China is getting hammered, right?
BILL POWELL, "FORTUNE": Absolutely, and worse all the time.
Hong Kong as a main gateway to China. You have hotel occupancy rates at 20 percent or less. Now with the news out of Beijing, with the number of cases there, similar low occupancy rates, it's a disaster for the airlines, for the hotels, and all the ancillary businesses that have to do with tourism.
BROWN: All the restaurants and the shops.
POWELL: Absolutely.
BROWN: You have in Hong Kong this convergence of international capitalism. Is business getting done or not?
POWELL: My sense is, basically not.
You have no one going to Hong Kong, no one coming out of Hong Kong. Friends of mine, bankers working for Western banks, as well as Chinese banks, basically say, we're grounded. They can meet with each other, but they can't meet with anyone else. To the extent that business is getting done, it's getting done over the phone.
BROWN: So the extent that, let's say, an American company wants to open or has thought about opening a factory in China, which is a very common thing these days...
POWELL: Absolutely. You bet.
BROWN: That's stopping?
POWELL: You had $50 billion in foreign direct investment in China last year. That is $50 billion in foreign companies investing in the mainland. For the moment, that is frozen.
There's not a lot of statistical evidence of that, because this is such a recent phenomenon. But, basically, if you don't have anyone going there, you're not going to have anyone investing. And the Chinese are very concerned about this.
BROWN: And Singapore is starting to feel the sting of this also?
POWELL: Basically, all of Southeast Asia is now, economists say, in recession. That is, their economies are contracting because of this.
BROWN: Because of this.
POWELL: Because of this, absolutely. Hong Kong is a disaster.
And the Chinese reported a very strong growth rate in the first quarter, 9.9 percent, I think. But they're not going to report that kind of numbers, that kind of strength in the second quarter.
BROWN: And even in countries where there are no confirmed cases, Thailand, I believe, I read an article today that the hotels in Phuket are emptying out. They can't give away a room.
POWELL: No doubt true. No doubt true. Malaysia as well, where I think there are a few cases, basically has banned tourism to and from China.
The Chinese, middle-class Chinese, in huge numbers, were beginning to travel within the region. This is a disaster for Southeast Asian tourism, not just because Americans and wealthy Europeans aren't going there, because Chinese themselves aren't going there.
BROWN: Now, at what point does this start to come home? POWELL: Well, that's what's scary, is that we don't know. They haven't contained it. They don't really know how it is -- fully how it's transmitted yet. To date, we have very few cases confirmed in the U.S. But, already, as your intro indicated, you have Chinatowns in the West, in the U.S., beginning to feel the pinch.
If we get an increasing number of cases confirmed in the U.S., they're...
BROWN: Let me ask it differently, because I don't necessarily understand all this money stuff. At what point does a recession in Southeast Asia, China, Hong Kong, Singapore, Thailand, Malaysia and the rest, at what point does that become an economic problem in Cleveland?
POWELL: Well, I think, to an extent, it already is. The question is how great an economic problem it's going to become.
Some economists -- Stephen Roach at Morgan Stanley, for example, has already said that the contraction in East Asia because of this basically is going to create a -- is going to tip the world into a global recession this year, that is to say that the U.S. might grow relatively slowly, but that if you have a part of the world, and in particular China, which was becoming -- on the brink of becoming a locomotive for global growth. If you have significant reduction in growth rates in China and in Southeast Asia, it's going to cut growth rates everywhere.
And then, if you get more cases confirmed in the U.S., that's obviously a nightmare scenario. We're not there yet. Let's hope we don't get there. But then all bets are off, if that happens.
BROWN: Bill, thanks for coming in. Nice to meet you. Thank you.
POWELL: Thank you.
BROWN: Scary, all of this.
POWELL: Absolutely.
BROWN: Thank you.
Still to come on NEWSNIGHT: a town that said no to the Patriot Act and the story of one citizen caught up in the provisions of the act.
We'll take a break first. Then NEWSNIGHT continues from New York.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Imagine that someone you knew and worked with for years, a neighbor, a friend, a fellow citizen, was one day taken into custody by the government, held without being charged, with no explanation of what he allegedly did. The friends of a man in Oregon don't have to imagine. Their friend was taken in. They want to know why. And the federal government won't say. Welcome to an uncomfortable reality of the war on terror and the attendant fear that this too is part of the new normal.
Here's CNN's Jeff Flock.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STEVE MCGEADY, FRIEND OF HAWASH: The KXL news guy called me yesterday and I blew him off.
JEFF FLOCK, CNN CHICAGO BUREAU CHIEF: Steve McGeady and his friends never planned to be activists.
MCGEADY: When are we going to have another rally?
FLOCK: The ex-Intel computer exec and his former colleagues long trusted their government and didn't question it.
MCGEADY: What breaks that trust is when they pick up somebody. He's not charged with a crime. He's held as a witness, but he's held in solitary confinement and in secret. That's the part that just blows us away.
FLOCK: The somebody is this man, 38-year-old Mike Hawash, American citizen, a wife and three kids, headed for his consulting job at Intel in the Portland, Oregon, suburbs a month ago, when FBI agents with bulletproof vests and guns arrested him. More FBI descended here on his house, waking his wife and children, taking files and computers.
Hawash is being held as a material witness. To what, the government won't say. All hearings have been closed. And though he has lawyers, the judge has forbidden them to talk.
(on camera): What makes you most angry about all of this?
MCGEADY: The secrecy. It's what makes me both angry and afraid.
FLOCK: The secrecy means the government won't say why he is being held, whether he is a suspect in anything, whether or when he may appear before a grand jury. They won't even say where he is, though his wife has been visiting him here at the federal detention center in Sheridan, Oregon.
(voice-over): The material witness statute is often used to detain those called before a grand jury whom the government thinks may not show up.
SUSAN MANDIBERG, PROFESSOR, LEWIS AND CLARK COLLEGE: On the face of it, the statute has some usefulness in making sure that people who have evidence that's important in a criminal case be around to present it. FLOCK: According to government sources, approximately two dozen material witnesses have been taken into custody since September 11, 2002, held, like Hawash, without charge or explanation.
DAVID FIDANQUE, ACLU: Most of us aren't aware of it. And the Justice Department wants to keep it that way.
FLOCK: A spokesman at Justice tells CNN, "Laws governing grand jury secrecy prevent us from commenting." Law enforcement forces tell CNN that Hawash is being held in connection with the so-called Portland six, accused of being an al Qaeda cell. He attended the same mosque as two of the six.
ROHAN COELHO, FRIEND: If that's the case, do you round them all up?
FLOCK (on camera): Just because you know somebody.
COELHO: Just because you somebody.
FLOCK (voice-over): Rohan Coelho was best man at Mike's wedding and wrote this computer book with him. He says, knowing a fellow Muslim in the relatively small Muslim community in Portland isn't a crime. If they have evidence against his friend, he asks, why not charge him?
FLOCK (on camera): Is there any way in your mind that he could be involved?
COELHO: Knowing Mike, I don't think so.
FLOCK (voice-over): And so his friends have become reluctant activists, organizing a rally to support him and the old Intel hand setting up a Web site, FreeMikeHawash.org, to spread word about his plight.
On it, they've just posted this letter, the first anyone's heard from him. "On the outside, I took things for granted," it begins. "In solitary, my world is limited, controlled, mandated. It really makes you think and appreciate what you have. It did for me. I hope you learn, too."
Mike Hawash is supposed to be in court at the end of this month. But the proceedings again will be closed.
I'm Jeff Flock, CNN, Portland, Oregon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: That's the story of one community struggling with the tradeoffs of the war on terror. This is the story of another: Arcata, California.
The city has become the first in the nation to pass an ordinance telling town officials not to comply with the Patriot Act, that law passed a month after September 11. Supporters say the Patriot Act gives up too many civil liberties in giving the government more power to fight terrorism.
We're joined tonight by David Meserve. He's an Arcata city council member who drafted the ordinance. He joins us from Portland, Oregon, tonight.
What is it, David, that you don't want the city to comply with?
DAVID MESERVE, CITY COUNCIL MEMBER, ARCATA, CALIFORNIA: Well, what we've done is crafted an ordinance which, first of all, says that the city will not participate in any profiling, according to, say, national origin, as we've seen happen all across the country.
And further than that, we're asking -- or, actually, instructing our management employees not to cooperate in any investigations where they feel the investigations are unconstitutional or in violation of the Bill of Rights.
BROWN: Give me an example. What is it in the law that you find offensive?
MESERVE: Well, within the Patriot Act, there are provisions which violate the First, Fourth, Fifth Sixth, Eighth, and 14th amendments to the Constitution. And that's quite a list of violations.
But among them are some of the ones that everybody just heard about in the previous story: holding people without due process, not allowing them access to a lawyer, listening in on conversations with lawyers, etcetera. And, in Arcata, we had passed a resolution opposing the Patriot Act. But we figured that we'd go the next step and pass an ordinance saying that we will not comply with this law that we feel goes dead against the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
BROWN: But whether it violates any amendment of the Bill of Rights or any part of the Constitution is for courts to decide, isn't it, not for the city council in one city or another?
MESERVE: Well, actually, how does something get to the courts? One has to ask that question. And so far, those who oppose the Patriot Act have been unable to find cases which really have the ability to lead to a higher court, because most of these cases have been directed at noncitizens.
Now, certainly, they're pursuing some cases. And I'm sure they will be pursuing ones like the one in the previous story. But we figure that we need to, in the American tradition, get out there and say, no, we will not violate the Bill of Rights. This actually occurred back in 1798, when they passed the Alien and Sedition Acts. There were was called the Kentucky Resolution and the Virginia Resolution that were written by Jefferson and Madison, respectively, that said, no, Kentucky and Virginia will not comply with these laws, because they are against the Constitution.
BROWN: So if an FBI agent from San Francisco comes up to your town and says to the head of the police department, the police chief, we're going to put -- help us put a phone tap on Dave's phone, you expect the police chief to say no?
MESERVE: Well, certainly, if they have a valid warrant from a valid court, they would go ahead and cooperate. But if they only had a warrant from the Federal Intelligence Surveillance Court, which is the secret court which provides these warrants under the Patriot Act, the answer would be, no, we must report this to the city manager and they will report it to the city council. And if it goes that far, the city council will consider what to do next.
BROWN: David, it's nice to meet you. We'll follow the path of the ordinance to see how it ends up. We appreciate your time tonight.
MESERVE: Well, please do. And thank you for having me on.
BROWN: Thank you, David Meserve, city councilman in Arcata, California.
Next on NEWSNIGHT: seven segment and the compelling statement made this evening by the mother of Laci Peterson.
We take a break. Then NEWSNIGHT continues from New York.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Children are not supposed to die before their parents. We can't imagine how a parent feels when their child dies, even more so when the child dies needlessly and violently.
Sharon Rocha tried to make us understand how she feels. Her child was Laci Peterson.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROCHA: On December 24, 2002, shortly after 5:15 p.m., I received a phone call and heard the devastating words that forever changed my life. Laci is missing. I knew in my heart that something terrible had happened to my daughter and my grandson. My world collapsed around me.
Since receiving that phone call, we've been living a terrible nightmare. The search for Laci began that night. The questions were always there. What happened to Laci? Where is she? Is she safe? And who took her from me? I made a plea to the person or persons who took her to please, please let her go and send her home to us. We heard nothing.
As the days passed, I made more pleas to take her to a hospital or a fire police station, or tell us where she is so that we could come to her and bring her and her baby home safely. But still, we heard nothing.
We searched and searched and searched and still, no Laci.
I love my daughter so much. I miss her every minute of every day. My heart aches for her and Connor. Without them, there's a huge void in my life. I literally get sick to my stomach when I allow myself to think about what may have happened to them. No parent should ever have to think about the way their child was murdered.
In my mind, I keep hearing Laci say to me, Mom, please find me and Connor and bring us home. I'm scared. Please don't leave us out here all alone. I want to come home. Please don't stop looking for us.
I feel that Laci and Connor could no longer wait to be found. The last week they came to us. Laci and Connor left us on Christmas Eve. I know that God has been watching over them. He sent them back to us on Good Friday. Now we can bring them home where they belong.
Laci and her unborn child did not deserve to die. They certainly did not deserve to be dumped in the bay and sent to a watery grave as though their lives were meaningless.
Laci meant the world to me. She was my only daughter. She was my best friend. We miss her beautiful smile, her laughter, her love, and her kind and loving ways. I miss seeing her, talking to her, and hugging her. We've been deprived of meeting and knowing Laci's son, our grandson and nephew. We will miss them and mourn them for the rest of our lives.
Soon after Laci went missing, I made a promise to her, that if she has been harmed, we will seek justice for her and Connor and make sure that that person responsible for their deaths will be punished. I can only hope that the sound of Laci's voice begging for her life and begging for the life of her unborn child is heard over and over and over again in the mind of that person every day for the rest of his life. The person responsible should be held accountable and punished for the tragedy and devastation forced upon so many of us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: In the next hour of NEWSNIGHT, we'll have more on the Peterson case.
Also tonight, we'll go live to Karbala, as Iraqi Shiites celebrate a holiday, a holiday that had been banned under Saddam Hussein. So we'll take you there. And we'll talk with a reporter who's gotten a peek at Saddam's secret papers -- all of that in the second hour of NEWSNIGHT on this Monday from New York.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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