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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown

Tariq Aziz's Family Speaks Out; Rilya Wilson Still Missing; Live Coverage of Soyuz Launch

Aired April 25, 2003 - 23:00 ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

AARON BROWN, HOST: Those are the big stories of the night. We begin the second hour of NEWSNIGHT with the second whip of the evening. And we start that in Baghdad with one of the more important captures this week of wanted Iraqis -- Nic Robertson there for us.
So, Nic, a headline.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, Tariq Aziz's family here not sure when they'll see the former foreign minister, foreign deputy prime minister again. They know he's going in for a lot of questioning.

Some people who live in his neighborhood say they'd like to see him back again soon, in leadership. Probably the majority of the city don't ever want to see him again -- Aaron.

BROWN: Nic, thank you. A name you haven't heard in a while, but should not forget -- and update tonight on Rilya Wilson, a year after we learned she was missing. John Zarrella is in Miami with the story.

John -- a headline.

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, the tips still come in, but Rilya Wilson, the little girl who disappeared from state care is still missing. And the state agency responsible for Rilya is still trying to get its house in order -- Aaron.

BROWN: John, thank you. And to Miles O'Brien next. Miles covering the launch of the Russian Soyuz rocket.

Miles -- a headline from you.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, with the shuttle fleet grounded, a path to space leads through one place and one place alone, the Baikonur Cosmodrome in the former Soviet Republic of Kazakhstan. That is where the U.S. astronaut, Ed Lu, and Russian cosmonaut, Yuri Malenchenko, will be lifting off in less than an hour. We'll bring you some live coverage.

BROWN: Miles, thank you. Back to you. The rest shortly. Also coming up in the second hour of NEWSNIGHT on this Friday, a day that thousands of families have been waiting for. They have been awaiting, for nine months, the USS Shiloh in Mobile Bay, back home tonight after the longest Navy deployment since Vietnam. And the woman who's gone from international hero to convicted felon, the meltdown of Winnie Mandela, from Charlayne Hunter-Gault, who is in South Africa. All of that and more in the last hour of the week.

But we begin with Iraq and the big pieces of the puzzle there. Again tonight, they add up to a mixed picture. Plenty of accomplishments, but the same nagging questions.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): Friday prayers here in Baghdad and here in the Shiite holy city of Najaf, big crowds at both, and not surprisingly, more demonstrations, along with banners urging and independent Iraq, a sentiment that clearly resonated with the Bush administration, which once again warned that the Iranian model for a new government would be most unwelcomed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD RUMSFELD, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: This much is certain: a vocal minority clamoring to transform Iraq in Iran's image will not be permitted to do so. We will not allow the Iraqi people's democratic transition to be hijacked by those who might wish to install another form of dictatorship.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: The third ranking member of Iraqi intelligence, Farouk Hijazi, was in American hands, taken into custody near the Syrian border. He is reputed to have been involved in an Iraqi plot to kill former President Bush in 1993.

As for Tariq Aziz, who surrendered on Thursday, the Pentagon will only say he's being held at a safe location in the region and will not be heading for Guantanamo Bay in Cuba.

His capture was especially good news for those who want to lead a new Iraq.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ZAAB SETHNA, IRAQI NATIONAL CONGRESS: What it will do is send a good sign to the Iraqi people that these people are being captured, that the regime truly is finished and that the end is close for Saddam.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Just a day or so after oil production resumed in the south, small-scale refinery operations began in the north. At first, the oil will be used to supply energy for power plants near Kirkuk.

And "The Washington Post" is reporting that six American soldiers in Iraq had stashed away more than $12 million from the enormous amounts of U.S. cash found in and around Baghdad. All of the stolen money, except for a few thousand dollars, according to "The Washington Post," has now been recovered.

More and more Americans who served in the war are coming back. An emotional welcome -- what other kind could there be -- in San Diego when two Navy ships steamed into their home port.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: We'll have more on the reunions a little later in the hour, but we begin it in Baghdad. And once again, CNN's Nic Robertson -- Nic.

ROBERTSON: Aaron, I went to Tariq Aziz's house, where he was -- he handed himself over, a little more than a day ago now. I met there with his son, Ziad (ph).

Now, he seemed pretty ill-at-ease with the whole situation. His family was very happy that they got Mr. Aziz into U.S. custody safely. They say the whole process, it happened with dignity. They really don't know how long he's going to be held and how long he'll be held for questioning. They do know that he does have a -- he can expect to face a lot of questions.

The family and Tariq Aziz had been concerned about his health. Apparently, the former deputy prime minister had had two heart attacks recently. And part of the conditions for his surrender was that there would be good medical attention. The family was assured that would be given.

I asked Ziad (ph) why, if he father, for so long, had said he would absolutely not give himself up, that he'd rather die than go into U.S. captivity, why had he now chosen to surrender. Ziad (ph) said he didn't know why, but that his father had arrived at the decision fairly quickly.

Possibly, it is a combination of his failing health. Possibly that, with the fact that he is extremely well-known and would have been very likely to have been able to wonder around Baghdad with any freedom. And certainly having had one house torn apart by looters, quite well aware of what the implications of being caught on Baghdad streets would have been -- Aaron.

BROWN: Do we know where he is now, Aziz?

ROBERTSON: No, we don't. The place that he would perhaps, very likely, have been taken to initially, which is the place closest to Baghdad, where there is the biggest concentration of U.S. forces, is the international airport just southwest of the city.

But where he might have gone from there, at this time, really is anyone's guess, to be perfectly honest.

BROWN: And does the family believe that he is entitled to protection under the Geneva Convention?

ROBERTSON: They believe that he is going to be treated well. There were two things they say they wanted to get out of his surrender: one was to do it safely. And that's why they did it at night.

The other was that he would maintain his dignity. And they say that, while they don't have assurances he won't be locked up in a jail cell, they say the way it's been described to them, all he's going to do is face a lot of questions that may take some time.

But they gave all the appearances of believing that he would be properly treated, properly respected as a former foreign minister, former deputy prime minister -- Aaron.

BROWN: Nic, thank you very much. It looks like a rotten day in Baghdad -- Nic Robertson in Baghdad today.

We've seen terribly injured people in Iraq, and this is a story about some of them. You can't see their wounds, but they are there, and they are so deep they may never recover.

Their hearts were broken when the regime took their loved ones away. And now they're trying to find what's left of them on the grounds of one of the notorious prisons in Baghdad.

We should warn you, as you might expect, some of the pictures here are a bit hard to take. The story from CNN's Rym Brahimi.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RYM BRAHIMI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Unearthing one more victim of a regime just gone. Some Iraqis have gathered at this part of the infamous Abu Ghraib prison, searching for loved ones who disappeared under the hands of Saddam Hussein's all-powerful security apparatus.

At least eight bodies were found in the surroundings of what was known as the foreign and Arab wing of Abu Ghraib. They haven't been identified, but these are believed to be Iraqis labeled as spies by the regime.

This one, shot in the head, we're told, executed only days before the fall of Baghdad. It took a while for this man to be recognized by friends. Haji Majeed (ph), as he was known to them, was a dervish from a Sunni group known as the Iraqi National Unity Gathering.

His friends say he was in his mid-50s and was taken, says this man, only a week before the war began.

We know the Mukhabarat took him, he says, not only him; there were about nine other people taken at the same time.

Why, I ask, was he considered to be a spy?

Yes, I'm told, they said you're pro-Americans, and on this basis, they considered us spies. But those who were working for America for the past 35 or 40 years, like Saddam, he says, he wasn't spying? Who else brought him to power but the Americans?

In light of the surrender of Deputy Prime Minister Tariq Aziz the night before, I asked this man whether he believes men like Aziz have to answer for the death of the friend he's just found in this shallow grave.

They're all responsible, he tells me. What did you expect me to say?

I ask him what kind of justice he would want to see with regard to Aziz.

We have a system in place here, guys, the Islamic shedi alu (ph) -- Rym Brahimi, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Last weekend, we saw the wonderful homecomings of the seven rescued American POWs, people who have become mini-celebrities. Today, thousands of sailors returned as well.

Their time during the war didn't include any dramatic rescue. None of them would be considered a celebrity. But they are all heroes to their families. And above all else, they are home tonight. Here's CNN's Frank Buckley.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The USS Mobile Bay and the USS Shiloh steamed into San Diego and a heroes' homecoming, heroes to family and friends who waited nine long months to see them return from war.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're very proud of our daughter. We're very proud of everybody on that ship and everything that they've done to protect our freedom here.

BUCKLEY: In January, the guided missile cruisers were halfway home from a six-month deployment when they were recalled to the Persian Gulf. It meant babies were born while their sailor dads were still at sea.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She's a lot heavier, and I guess she walks now, which before, she was just barely the length of my forearm, and now she's huge.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We did our job; we're back. We're back to this, our families, my lovely wife, my kids, my newborn kid.

BUCKLEY (on camera): Newborn kids now just beginning to recognize their fathers' faces, after nine months and a day apart, 255 of those days at sea -- Frank Buckley, CNN, San Diego, California.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: And ahead on NEWSNIGHT, a story that filled the headlines last year, the story of the missing girl from Florida, Rilya Wilson, and what's happened to the system that lost here, what's changed.

And the fall of Winnie Mandela, found guilty and sentenced to jail for corruption in South Africa.

From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Her name was Rilya, which stood for "remember I love you always." In truth, this little girl wasn't loved much. She was forgotten again and again by the people supposed to protect her, her mother, the people who later took her in, the state of Florida that was supposed to make sure she was safe.

We haven't forgotten Rilya. It was one year ago everyone realized she was not safe. Child welfare authorities did not have a clue where she was, and a year later, they still don't. An update from CNN's John Zarrella.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ZARRELLA (voice-over): In Tallahassee, legislators lit a memorial candle for Rilya Wilson. Child advocates set up cardboard tombstones for four children who have died in recent months while in state custody.

The latest 10 days ago, a 5-year-old boy, Zachary Bennett (ph), was, police say, stomped to death by his father, in whose custody the boy was place. The caseworker involved had more than 30 children under his watch.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I said, when I came -- and the person that comes after me will say the same thing -- we are not going to eradicate every event that takes place within the child welfare system.

ZARRELLA: The event that focused attention on Florida's flawed child welfare system was the Rilya story. It exposed an agency that couldn't account for the whereabouts of hundreds of kids. Caseworkers falsified visitation records. The head of the agency resigned.

Sara Herald was a member of the blue ribbon panel set up to assess Florida's Department of Children and Families.

SARA HERALD, MEMBER, BLUE RIBBON PANEL: They still need to reform the investigative function. And that's still in process. So they're not yet where they need to be, as is evidenced by the recent death.

ZARRELLA: More money would help. Regier asked for nearly $500 million to hire more people and raise salaries. Gov. Jeb Bush has cut the request almost in half.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was just so sure that our legislators, our governor, our people across this state -- we would find a way to fund this (UNINTELLIGIBLE) agency.

ZARRELLA: Some child advocates say the agency is improving. The backlog of incomplete investigations has been dramatically reduced. But it remains an agency with too few people and too many children under its care.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZARRELLA: And what about those who were in charge of Rilya Wilson's welfare? The caseworker goes on trial next month for official misconduct. One of her caregivers is serving two years in jail, convicted of four counts of fraud. Another caregiver is out on bond, charged also with welfare fraud -- Aaron.

BROWN: People still talk about it down there, or is it old news?

ZARRELLA: Aaron, it's not in the news everyday, but it continues to be in the news repeatedly, particularly when a tip comes in and police believe, perhaps, they have a lead. And, in fact, recently they had a lead they thought might be a good one. But like all the others in the past, it turned out to be a dead end.

When those times come up, there is a lifting of the spirit, perhaps some hope for Rilya. But as one of the child advocates told us today, they think that, with all this time that has passed, there isn't much hope of finding Rilya Wilson alive -- Aaron.

BROWN: John, thank you very much -- John Zarrella in Miami. Rilya Wilson would be 6 years old. Or to put it another way, she should be 6 years old. Her story was compelling, in and of itself, and a terrible indictment of the system that lost her.

The question beyond Rilya's own fate is whether the state has really gotten any better at protecting the children like her.

We're joined from Miami tonight by Shana Gruskin, who has been covering this story for "The Sun Sentinel" newspapers.

Good to have you with us. Have caseloads changed? Are they smaller for child welfare workers?

SHANA GRUSKIN, "THE SUN SENTINEL": Well, after Rilya, there was a huge turnover. A lot of caseworkers -- or a few were fired because there was more scrutiny on them, and others resigned. It was just too much, too intense.

So in general, I think caseloads are probably the same. It obviously depends on where you are in the state. But it hasn't gotten much better now.

BROWN: Have there been other Rilyas?

GRUSKIN: There certainly are other missing children. There are usually about 450 children who are considered missing in the state. Most of those are runaways. Some are parental abductions. And there are children dying way too often.

BROWN: I think it was colleagues of yours who took the list of missing kids and went out and found a bunch of them. Has the state been as successful as the newspaper in finding these missing children? GRUSKIN: You know, I think the state is trying to follow the same pattern as the newspaper did, which was simply using public records to find these children. And they are doing a better job of trying to keep us, the public, updated on children that they're finding. But for one child they find, another they lose.

BROWN: Do -- obviously, you've spent a lot of time writing on this. Other papers I assume do. Do you sense that people want to read these stories or they go, all right, we get it, the system doesn't work?

GRUSKIN: I think that people care a lot about individual children, individual cases. But day-to-day, people are living their lives.

Right now, the legislature is in session, and there's a lot of talk about funding. And "The Sun Sentinel" did a survey just before the governor's election to see just how much child welfare matters to people. And while they cared, they cared more about education and health care. Those were the issues they were voting on.

BROWN: Do you think it would have made any difference if Rilya Wilson had been a little white child?

GRUSKIN: You know, I don't know. I hadn't thought to ask that question. I'll be honest. I don't think so. I think a lot of attention has been paid to Rilya's case. And I think that that would have happened no matter what her race was.

BROWN: All right. Let me -- we can walk away from this, if you want here. But if -- you know, many of these children who are in foster homes or taken out of homes are minority children. Does that -- Does anyone there think that that affects how the funding works, how voters feel about the issue, any of that?

GRUSKIN: Well, it's certainly a possibility. I know there's concern among many advocates that the system does tend to remove minority children faster from their homes, which means that the foster care system is weighted more heavily with minority children than it should be statistically.

And I guess there's been some discussion about whether or not people feel these are children in their neighborhoods, these are children in their schools, or whether they feel like they're somebody else's children, so there's a little bit of a distance there.

BROWN: It's not necessarily your place to grade state agencies, so again, if you want to walk away from this, do. But do you feel like the state does a better job -- not a perfect job, clearly, but a better job -- at protecting these children than it did a year ago?

GRUSKIN: You know, it's very hard for me to say, as you said, Aaron. I think that Jerry Regier has stepped in and tried to make some quick changes that will make an impact.

For example, the state was just swimming with a backlog of open child abuse investigations, any investigations open longer than 60 days. And in those open cases, caseworkers hadn't made a decision about whether or not this child was safe. Many advocates find that very dangerous.

When Jerry Regier came in, the new secretary, the first thing he did was have the investigators attack that backlog. And that backlog has dropped from about 30,000 cases in December to about 11,000 today.

So obviously, that's a positive change. There's still far more to do. And I think Mr. Regier himself would agree with that.

BROWN: Shana, thank you for joining us tonight. You've done terrific work on this, as the paper has.

GRUSKIN: Thank you very much.

BROWN: Thank you very much. "The Sun Sentinel," newspaper. I'm pretty sure it's Fr. Lauderdale. It's outside of Miami, in any case.

Coming up on NEWSNIGHT, we'll update the SARS story and extraordinary measures being taken to deal with the illness in Hong Kong, all across Asia.

Take a break first. This is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

BROWN: And still to come on NEWSNIGHT, we're about 20 minutes away from the first manned-space launch since the Columbia tragedy. We'll cover it live.

Also coming up, the fall of South African icon, or at least was an icon, Winnie Mandela, convicted and sentenced for theft and fraud.

Break first. This is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: It is a hard fact to swallow that a Mandela could bring shame in the nation of South Africa. The Mandela we're talking about is Winnie Mandela, the ex-wife of Nelson Mandela. She's sentenced to five years in jail for fraud and theft. It's not even her first brush with the law nor is it even her most serious and it wasn't a surprise to South Africans who knew her story well but there is still a sadness in seeing someone we thought was a fighter for justice turn out to be something far less than that.

Here's CNN's Charlayne Hunter-Gault. OK. We've got a problem and we'll try and correct it.

In the meantime, we'll move onto SARS. An image caught our eye this evening. The U.S. envoy leaving Beijing after the nuclear talks with North Korea, he was detained at the airport not because the North Koreans had reconsidered but he had to get his temperature taken. North Korea having the bomb is one thing, SARS is clearly another. CNN's Andrew Brown filed tonight from Hong Kong.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANDREW BROWN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In a bid to beat the SARS virus, travelers flooding into Hong Kong from China are being given health checks. Officials are looking for signs of fever, an early symptom of SARS. Eventually the Hong Kong government hopes to take the temperature of every person who crosses the mainland border, an ambitious plan. There are around four million arrivals a month and many scientists say whatever governments do, SARS cases will keep cropping up.

JOHN MACKENZIE, W.H.O. TECHNICAL CONSULTANT: I think you'll see better control but however suspect the virus is here to stay.

BROWN: People aren't scared of all high temperatures. You'll find Fabiana Concesca (ph) and Lenny Lopez (ph) down at the beach at noon when the mercury climbs beyond 90 Fahrenheit, 32 Celsius but they're here partly because it's an open area where they think there's less risk of contracting SARS.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think there are much, much lower chances of getting infected here than in the bars or in central.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it's -- yeah, less chance to get something.

BROWN: Well, it's perfectly natural for people to worry about their health. Some experts say if you become obsessed about SARS that creates high levels of stress, which ironically may make you even more vulnerable. Psychologists like Alan Dorkiss (ph) say the adrenaline rush has to stop.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If people continue to react in that mode out of fear, out of stress, what happens is they're no longer functioning optimally. Their body is going into override.

BROWN: But the bad news just keeps on coming. The death toll in Hong Kong continues to rise and it seems people are too busy avoiding the virus to really relax.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I'm scared, more scared than before.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Life has changed. We spend much less time in shopping malls, much more time outdoors.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): When the war drags on, you get used to the bombs.

BROWN: And according to some people, that's when you need to let go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The very fight against life is what's creating resistance and that is what is actually inviting the virus to settle in. This is not something that will go away. This is something that people have to learn to live with.

BROWN: Andrew Brown, CNN, Hong Kong.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Back to South Africa now and Winnie Mandela who was sentenced to prison for fraud. Here's CNN's Charlayne Hunter-Gault.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHARLAYNE HUNTER-GAULT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): There she was, the Winnie of legend, strong in the face of trouble, but this trouble, said the judge who sentenced her to five years in prison, was self-inflicted, a gross breach of trust.

Pretoria Regional Court Magistrate Pete Johnson said he hadn't forgotten her important part in the liberation struggle, her suffering, but he said, something went wrong. The magistrate said it first considered her a kind of Robin Hood who took from those who had to give to those who didn't have, but after further consideration, he said, he saw she was concerned about her own financial problem, that despite a handsome salary as the member of parliament, she took from the poor.

The magistrate said it wanted to send a message that this kind of crime would not be tolerated. Co-accused Addy Moonmon (ph) with more counts of fraud and theft was sentenced to seven years in jail, two suspended. Madikizela-Mandela sentenced to five years, with one suspended, but under a legal provision seems likely to serve only eight months. At 66, her age appeared to be a mitigating factor, along with the fact that she didn't benefit directly from the fraud or theft. Madikizela-Mandela said in a statement she expects ultimately to have her innocence confirmed.

In her Soweto neighborhood, mixed reactions. Constance Mocalla Bati (ph) spoke of her gratitude for her struggle, for her liberation but approved of ...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Punishment. She's not above the law.

HUNTER-GAULT: But Seebong Geely Sletswayo (ph) disagreed.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She's not the Winnie we know.

HUNTER-GAULT (on camera): She needs help.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, she needs help.

HUNTER-GAULT (voice-over): Tabo Matong (ph) applauded Madikizela-Mandela's decision to resign from parliament.

Madikizela-Mandela and her co-conspirator are out on bail pending appeal.

(on camera): At the end of the day, Winnie Madikizela-Mandela has been through worse than this and bounced back. It's hard to believe she's going to retreat behind these high walls of her Soweto home and not be heard from again.

Charlayne Hunter-Gault, CNN, Soweto, South Africa.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: And ahead on NEWSNIGHT tonight for tomorrow's news tonight. It doesn't get better than that, does it? We'll check morning papers from around the country and around the world. We'll take a break first.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: All right. Time to check the morning papers from around the country, around the world. A lot of what we'll look at is how newspapers covered or are covering SARS but first the New York Times which is covering lots of things and many of them interesting. We'll get to the SARS stuff in a moment.

In the middle in Afghanistan, violence stalls renewal effort. We don't pay much attention to Afghanistan. An American soldier died there today or yesterday in any case.

SARS over here. Beijing borders saw -- broadens SARS quarantine. Even with my glasses I can't read this stuff. More cases found there. Hong Kong doctors ordeal is patient with new disease and a terrific picture on the front page of the Times as well. All SARS related.

Now the "China Post," which is the English language paper in Taiwan, the whole front page is SARS. Landing visas for Hong Kong residents to be suspended. Many at Ho Ping (ph), that's the big hospital, many Ho Ping (ph) staff refuse to treat SARS victims. The mayor warns hospital staff not to break the quarantine. Hong Kong officials attacked for not giving staff protective gear. Everything on the front page of the China Post is SARS related.

Now Montreal, Canada. Where else would Montreal be? Come on, Aaron. "The Gazette," the English language paper in that fine city in Quebec, "Ontario Winning Battle" is the big headline. SARS fears hurt Montreal as tourists avoid Canada. So "The Gazette," pretty much SARS dominated as well.

"The Boston Herald," you got it. On the lookout for SARS, state to screen Canadians at Birchers conference, the big story in the "Boston Herald" today.

SARS is in the "Atlanta Journal Constitution." I'm running out of papers here. How much time do we have? Forty, OK. We'll just milk it for everything it's worth then. "Nations Sketch SARS Strategy." They don't write these things necessarily with my reading them in time. Nations sketch SARS strategy, disease death toll rises in the "Atlanta Journal Constitution" and they play with the deck of cards in the middle. We hold the hand who's been caught and a little background on who they all are. What they did -- what I don't see on the front page is anything on the flag controversy.

"The Oregonian," why not, from Portland, Oregon. Last one, OK. The Ohio Health Services Group, health and science at the university -- that's what it is -- joined world search for anti-SARS vaccine. So they don't have SARS cases out in Oregon, but they did find a way to localize the story because it's a story that people are talking about.

That's a quick look at morning papers. We'll take a break and hopefully see a manned space launch when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: NASA today named the crew of the next space shuttle mission, the first one since the Columbia tragedy. It includes a three time veteran, an astronaut from Japan's space program and most likely a three person crew for the International Space Station II. NASA expects to fly again, certainly hopes to, as early as the end of the year, which solves the long term problem but not the immediate one. This is why so much is riding on tonight's launch of a Russian Soyuz spaceship with one American astronaut on board, one Russian cosmonaut on board. Helping with our coverage as we move toward launch time, CNN's Miles O'Brien of course, and the commander of the first crew aboard the International Space Station, Astronaut Bill Shepherd.

Miles, why don't you start of us off by just sort of helping people understand a bit what it is they're looking at, where this is all taking place, what time the mission goes, the basic facts of this?

O'BRIEN: All right. We are about six minutes away from launch here and you're looking at a live picture of really a historic piece of space history. That is the launch pad, which in April of 1961, Yuri Gagarin left the earth for the first time from and ever since then about 400 launches have occurred on that very spot. This is the 89th launch of a piloted Soyuz spacecraft. It stands about 163 feet tall. You'll notice that needle at the top. That's the emergency escape rocket, which adds to its safety as a vehicle to get to space. They've had two mishaps over the years.

The first Soyuz mission back in 1967, cosmonaut died on reentry when the parachute did not open, and then in 1971 three cosmonauts perished after spending three weeks in space at the Soyuz space station when they lost cabin pressure on the way down. It's a reliable system. It is not new technology, however. It's 36 years old. Various iterations have occurred over the years, modifications and that's the way the Russians deal with things. They don't build new things, as we look at live pictures inside. Screen right there is Ed Lu, NASA astronaut. I don't know if you can make it out but he is wearing a patch of the STS 107 Columbia crew, which perished on February 1. Screen left, cosmonaut Yuri Malenchenko, who is the commander of this mission. This is the first time an American has served as a flight engineer on a Soyuz capsule -- Aaron.

BROWN: Shep, much is riding on this for the Russians, I would think. This is a chance for them to shine, if you will.

BILL SHEPHERD, FORMER COMMANDER, INTERNATIONAL SPACE STATION: Yes. I think they've been very supportive of trying to sustain the station and that's been a big factor in keeping the station program going. The station has a lot of robustness because, of course, we have more than one way to get to it. Having a capability from pads that the Russians operate in Kazakhstan was a big part of the station design in 1993.

BROWN: Are these two space vehicles, the Russian and the American, dramatically different, or if you basically could fly one could you fly the other?

SHEPHERD: No, they are quite different. The Russian vehicle actually was -- is kind of a grandchild of the original R7 that Korolev had built that put sputnik in orbit, and as Miles said, launched Yuri Gagarin into space in 1961. It's really a different philosophy in Russia that when they have something that works and performs well, they don't do a lot of changes with it. It's pretty similar to a Gemini era spacecraft in the United States that we flew in the '60s as well. The shuttle has got a lot more piloting task to it. The systems on board to get the crew up into orbit and to deal with various failures and malfunctions that could happen has a lot more crew involvement with it.

BROWN: What's going on right now with these two men? Are they -- I mean we saw them a moment ago mugging the camera a little bit. Are they busy now or are they just waiting for the next two and a half minutes or so to pass for those rockets to ignite?

SHEPHERD: Well, they've got their helmets down. They've purged their suits. They're on pure oxygen inside their suits. It's probably a little bit warm there. Sometimes there's kind of a lag in getting the cooling system to get you comfortable. They've been on their backs for two and a half hours with their knees very tight to their chest and I imagine they're getting a little uncomfortable and they're ready to go.

BROWN: Miles, they're going to bring the space station astronauts home. Is there anything particularly tricky about that or is this pretty much routine?

O'BRIEN: It's gotten to be routine. Yuri Malenchenko was the first human being ever to perform a manual docking with a spacecraft. The Russian spacecrafts are capable of fully automatic dockings. The manual capability would be potentially in a backup. Shep, check me on that. Would this be an automatic docking or a manual?

SHEPHERD: It should be. On our mission, Yuri Gidzenko, our Soyuz commander, had to dock a Progress remotely. They have a radar system that switches from one antenna to another. The software had been modified. There was a glitch in it. Yuri took override at the last about 15 meters in the approach and did it manually, which was highly unusual. The Russians prefer to have it done automatically.

BROWN: OK. We've got about -- I'm sorry.

O'BRIEN: And Aaron ...

BROWN: Go ahead, Miles. We've got about a minute and a half. O'BRIEN: With a minute and a half to go, the thing that they really have to do this week, and Shep can attest to this, is have an orderly transition, a handover between the two crews to ensure everybody knows where everything is, because they're not going to be close to help so they need to find something. So this next week is important.

BROWN: OK. We're inside of a minute now. Let's just (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and see what NASA is saying at this point.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... the third American astronaut to ride a Soyuz into orbit.

BROWN: Hear some of the crosstalk going on between ...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thirty seconds from launch.

BROWN: ... NASA as we are 30 seconds away. Miles, would these Russian launches attract a lot of people in the way that a Kennedy Space Center launch does?

O'BRIEN: No, it's not quite the same being out there in the steppes of Kazakhstan. You're pretty much out there in the middle of nowhere.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... vehicle. Ten seconds from launch, first stage engine should be at flight speed.

BROWN: Again, you can see the astronauts and the cosmonaut on the left picture.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Three, two, one. Engines start and lift off, lift off of the Soyuz, beginning Cosmonaut Yuri Malenchenko and Astronaut Ed Lu's six-month journey in space to continue the permanent human occupancy of the International Space Station.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you see Yuri has got (UNINTELLIGIBLE) ascent.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... in pitch program according to flight controllers as the Soyuz begins to streak toward a rendezvous at the International Space Station.

BROWN: Miles, can that picture on the left possibly be live? It appears as if nothing's changed at all.

O'BRIEN: It is live, and I -- you know, what you're not getting from that picture are the press of the g forces that they're feeling. It also I have been told, and Shep (UNINTELLIGIBLE) out of this one. It's a much smoother ride in the space shuttle. You know, the space shuttle for the first minute and a half has those solid rocket boosters on it, and they are kind of a rough ride by comparison to a liquid rocket. You see a little bit of vibration there, except it's kind of smooth, isn't it?

SHEPHERD: Yes. I would agree with that. The solid rockets on the shuttle come up with quite a jolt when they light. You don't have that same sensation, because the Soyuz is completely liquid fuel in all three stages. So the ride is a little bit smoother, but they've got about three g's on them right now so they're really being pressed down (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

BROWN: Those last -- Shep, those last 10 or 15 seconds, is your heart just beating out of your space suit?

SHEPHERD: I think you're just kind of watching all the gauges and the parameters for possible aborting. You're fairly busy so I think most of the guys that -- most of the people that I flew with are pretty intent on efforts all over. Then they realize they've done something really exceptional but while they're doing it they're quite busy.

BROWN: And how long is that period? I mean is it a minute or is it 10 minutes or is it an hour and a half? Whatever it is where you finally realize that the launch part which we all rightly or wrongly think of as the most dangerous part, that the launch part has gone fine and that you're on your way?

SHEPHERD: I think it depends on the pace of the post- (UNINTELLIGIBLE) activity on shuttle. You can have a very busy period because you're coming up within half an orbit with a burn that's going to raise your altitude, your (UNINTELLIGIBLE) as well, to get your orbit to be circular. So that -- there's a lot of work there for the shuttle. In the Soyuz, it goes right to a circular orbit, and a little bit lower than a shuttle would go, so once the engines shut down you have pressure checks, but activity quiets down considerably.

BROWN: Miles, we're working towards about a minute left here in the program. Bittersweet for NASA?

O'BRIEN: Yes, it is. It's obviously a sad moment, because certainly NASA would prefer that the space shuttle Atlantis had launched on March 1. I think though it is sweet in the sense that they realize the power of this partnership, which was sort of foistered upon NASA for some geopolitical reasons, quite frankly. I mean, after all, for years and years they were both rivals and it was difficult bedfellows to say the least, but I think in this moment it's a bit of sad irony, but it surely shows to NASA the value of an international partnership.

BROWN: And Miles, when do the -- when did the space station occupants, the current ones, get back to earth?

O'BRIEN: They're back on May 4, and that in and of itself has got to be a tough arrival for them. They were of course in space watching the Columbia tragedy unfold and these were after all friends and colleagues of theirs and that's got to be a tough thing.

BROWN: Miles, thank you. Shep, thank you. It's an interesting way to end the week. We'll see you all next week. Have a wonderful weekend and good night for all of us at NEWSNIGHT.

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Missing; Live Coverage of Soyuz Launch>

Aired April 25, 2003 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, HOST: Those are the big stories of the night. We begin the second hour of NEWSNIGHT with the second whip of the evening. And we start that in Baghdad with one of the more important captures this week of wanted Iraqis -- Nic Robertson there for us.
So, Nic, a headline.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, Tariq Aziz's family here not sure when they'll see the former foreign minister, foreign deputy prime minister again. They know he's going in for a lot of questioning.

Some people who live in his neighborhood say they'd like to see him back again soon, in leadership. Probably the majority of the city don't ever want to see him again -- Aaron.

BROWN: Nic, thank you. A name you haven't heard in a while, but should not forget -- and update tonight on Rilya Wilson, a year after we learned she was missing. John Zarrella is in Miami with the story.

John -- a headline.

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, the tips still come in, but Rilya Wilson, the little girl who disappeared from state care is still missing. And the state agency responsible for Rilya is still trying to get its house in order -- Aaron.

BROWN: John, thank you. And to Miles O'Brien next. Miles covering the launch of the Russian Soyuz rocket.

Miles -- a headline from you.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, with the shuttle fleet grounded, a path to space leads through one place and one place alone, the Baikonur Cosmodrome in the former Soviet Republic of Kazakhstan. That is where the U.S. astronaut, Ed Lu, and Russian cosmonaut, Yuri Malenchenko, will be lifting off in less than an hour. We'll bring you some live coverage.

BROWN: Miles, thank you. Back to you. The rest shortly. Also coming up in the second hour of NEWSNIGHT on this Friday, a day that thousands of families have been waiting for. They have been awaiting, for nine months, the USS Shiloh in Mobile Bay, back home tonight after the longest Navy deployment since Vietnam. And the woman who's gone from international hero to convicted felon, the meltdown of Winnie Mandela, from Charlayne Hunter-Gault, who is in South Africa. All of that and more in the last hour of the week.

But we begin with Iraq and the big pieces of the puzzle there. Again tonight, they add up to a mixed picture. Plenty of accomplishments, but the same nagging questions.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): Friday prayers here in Baghdad and here in the Shiite holy city of Najaf, big crowds at both, and not surprisingly, more demonstrations, along with banners urging and independent Iraq, a sentiment that clearly resonated with the Bush administration, which once again warned that the Iranian model for a new government would be most unwelcomed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD RUMSFELD, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: This much is certain: a vocal minority clamoring to transform Iraq in Iran's image will not be permitted to do so. We will not allow the Iraqi people's democratic transition to be hijacked by those who might wish to install another form of dictatorship.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: The third ranking member of Iraqi intelligence, Farouk Hijazi, was in American hands, taken into custody near the Syrian border. He is reputed to have been involved in an Iraqi plot to kill former President Bush in 1993.

As for Tariq Aziz, who surrendered on Thursday, the Pentagon will only say he's being held at a safe location in the region and will not be heading for Guantanamo Bay in Cuba.

His capture was especially good news for those who want to lead a new Iraq.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ZAAB SETHNA, IRAQI NATIONAL CONGRESS: What it will do is send a good sign to the Iraqi people that these people are being captured, that the regime truly is finished and that the end is close for Saddam.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Just a day or so after oil production resumed in the south, small-scale refinery operations began in the north. At first, the oil will be used to supply energy for power plants near Kirkuk.

And "The Washington Post" is reporting that six American soldiers in Iraq had stashed away more than $12 million from the enormous amounts of U.S. cash found in and around Baghdad. All of the stolen money, except for a few thousand dollars, according to "The Washington Post," has now been recovered.

More and more Americans who served in the war are coming back. An emotional welcome -- what other kind could there be -- in San Diego when two Navy ships steamed into their home port.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: We'll have more on the reunions a little later in the hour, but we begin it in Baghdad. And once again, CNN's Nic Robertson -- Nic.

ROBERTSON: Aaron, I went to Tariq Aziz's house, where he was -- he handed himself over, a little more than a day ago now. I met there with his son, Ziad (ph).

Now, he seemed pretty ill-at-ease with the whole situation. His family was very happy that they got Mr. Aziz into U.S. custody safely. They say the whole process, it happened with dignity. They really don't know how long he's going to be held and how long he'll be held for questioning. They do know that he does have a -- he can expect to face a lot of questions.

The family and Tariq Aziz had been concerned about his health. Apparently, the former deputy prime minister had had two heart attacks recently. And part of the conditions for his surrender was that there would be good medical attention. The family was assured that would be given.

I asked Ziad (ph) why, if he father, for so long, had said he would absolutely not give himself up, that he'd rather die than go into U.S. captivity, why had he now chosen to surrender. Ziad (ph) said he didn't know why, but that his father had arrived at the decision fairly quickly.

Possibly, it is a combination of his failing health. Possibly that, with the fact that he is extremely well-known and would have been very likely to have been able to wonder around Baghdad with any freedom. And certainly having had one house torn apart by looters, quite well aware of what the implications of being caught on Baghdad streets would have been -- Aaron.

BROWN: Do we know where he is now, Aziz?

ROBERTSON: No, we don't. The place that he would perhaps, very likely, have been taken to initially, which is the place closest to Baghdad, where there is the biggest concentration of U.S. forces, is the international airport just southwest of the city.

But where he might have gone from there, at this time, really is anyone's guess, to be perfectly honest.

BROWN: And does the family believe that he is entitled to protection under the Geneva Convention?

ROBERTSON: They believe that he is going to be treated well. There were two things they say they wanted to get out of his surrender: one was to do it safely. And that's why they did it at night.

The other was that he would maintain his dignity. And they say that, while they don't have assurances he won't be locked up in a jail cell, they say the way it's been described to them, all he's going to do is face a lot of questions that may take some time.

But they gave all the appearances of believing that he would be properly treated, properly respected as a former foreign minister, former deputy prime minister -- Aaron.

BROWN: Nic, thank you very much. It looks like a rotten day in Baghdad -- Nic Robertson in Baghdad today.

We've seen terribly injured people in Iraq, and this is a story about some of them. You can't see their wounds, but they are there, and they are so deep they may never recover.

Their hearts were broken when the regime took their loved ones away. And now they're trying to find what's left of them on the grounds of one of the notorious prisons in Baghdad.

We should warn you, as you might expect, some of the pictures here are a bit hard to take. The story from CNN's Rym Brahimi.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RYM BRAHIMI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Unearthing one more victim of a regime just gone. Some Iraqis have gathered at this part of the infamous Abu Ghraib prison, searching for loved ones who disappeared under the hands of Saddam Hussein's all-powerful security apparatus.

At least eight bodies were found in the surroundings of what was known as the foreign and Arab wing of Abu Ghraib. They haven't been identified, but these are believed to be Iraqis labeled as spies by the regime.

This one, shot in the head, we're told, executed only days before the fall of Baghdad. It took a while for this man to be recognized by friends. Haji Majeed (ph), as he was known to them, was a dervish from a Sunni group known as the Iraqi National Unity Gathering.

His friends say he was in his mid-50s and was taken, says this man, only a week before the war began.

We know the Mukhabarat took him, he says, not only him; there were about nine other people taken at the same time.

Why, I ask, was he considered to be a spy?

Yes, I'm told, they said you're pro-Americans, and on this basis, they considered us spies. But those who were working for America for the past 35 or 40 years, like Saddam, he says, he wasn't spying? Who else brought him to power but the Americans?

In light of the surrender of Deputy Prime Minister Tariq Aziz the night before, I asked this man whether he believes men like Aziz have to answer for the death of the friend he's just found in this shallow grave.

They're all responsible, he tells me. What did you expect me to say?

I ask him what kind of justice he would want to see with regard to Aziz.

We have a system in place here, guys, the Islamic shedi alu (ph) -- Rym Brahimi, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Last weekend, we saw the wonderful homecomings of the seven rescued American POWs, people who have become mini-celebrities. Today, thousands of sailors returned as well.

Their time during the war didn't include any dramatic rescue. None of them would be considered a celebrity. But they are all heroes to their families. And above all else, they are home tonight. Here's CNN's Frank Buckley.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The USS Mobile Bay and the USS Shiloh steamed into San Diego and a heroes' homecoming, heroes to family and friends who waited nine long months to see them return from war.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're very proud of our daughter. We're very proud of everybody on that ship and everything that they've done to protect our freedom here.

BUCKLEY: In January, the guided missile cruisers were halfway home from a six-month deployment when they were recalled to the Persian Gulf. It meant babies were born while their sailor dads were still at sea.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She's a lot heavier, and I guess she walks now, which before, she was just barely the length of my forearm, and now she's huge.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We did our job; we're back. We're back to this, our families, my lovely wife, my kids, my newborn kid.

BUCKLEY (on camera): Newborn kids now just beginning to recognize their fathers' faces, after nine months and a day apart, 255 of those days at sea -- Frank Buckley, CNN, San Diego, California.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: And ahead on NEWSNIGHT, a story that filled the headlines last year, the story of the missing girl from Florida, Rilya Wilson, and what's happened to the system that lost here, what's changed.

And the fall of Winnie Mandela, found guilty and sentenced to jail for corruption in South Africa.

From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Her name was Rilya, which stood for "remember I love you always." In truth, this little girl wasn't loved much. She was forgotten again and again by the people supposed to protect her, her mother, the people who later took her in, the state of Florida that was supposed to make sure she was safe.

We haven't forgotten Rilya. It was one year ago everyone realized she was not safe. Child welfare authorities did not have a clue where she was, and a year later, they still don't. An update from CNN's John Zarrella.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ZARRELLA (voice-over): In Tallahassee, legislators lit a memorial candle for Rilya Wilson. Child advocates set up cardboard tombstones for four children who have died in recent months while in state custody.

The latest 10 days ago, a 5-year-old boy, Zachary Bennett (ph), was, police say, stomped to death by his father, in whose custody the boy was place. The caseworker involved had more than 30 children under his watch.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I said, when I came -- and the person that comes after me will say the same thing -- we are not going to eradicate every event that takes place within the child welfare system.

ZARRELLA: The event that focused attention on Florida's flawed child welfare system was the Rilya story. It exposed an agency that couldn't account for the whereabouts of hundreds of kids. Caseworkers falsified visitation records. The head of the agency resigned.

Sara Herald was a member of the blue ribbon panel set up to assess Florida's Department of Children and Families.

SARA HERALD, MEMBER, BLUE RIBBON PANEL: They still need to reform the investigative function. And that's still in process. So they're not yet where they need to be, as is evidenced by the recent death.

ZARRELLA: More money would help. Regier asked for nearly $500 million to hire more people and raise salaries. Gov. Jeb Bush has cut the request almost in half.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was just so sure that our legislators, our governor, our people across this state -- we would find a way to fund this (UNINTELLIGIBLE) agency.

ZARRELLA: Some child advocates say the agency is improving. The backlog of incomplete investigations has been dramatically reduced. But it remains an agency with too few people and too many children under its care.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZARRELLA: And what about those who were in charge of Rilya Wilson's welfare? The caseworker goes on trial next month for official misconduct. One of her caregivers is serving two years in jail, convicted of four counts of fraud. Another caregiver is out on bond, charged also with welfare fraud -- Aaron.

BROWN: People still talk about it down there, or is it old news?

ZARRELLA: Aaron, it's not in the news everyday, but it continues to be in the news repeatedly, particularly when a tip comes in and police believe, perhaps, they have a lead. And, in fact, recently they had a lead they thought might be a good one. But like all the others in the past, it turned out to be a dead end.

When those times come up, there is a lifting of the spirit, perhaps some hope for Rilya. But as one of the child advocates told us today, they think that, with all this time that has passed, there isn't much hope of finding Rilya Wilson alive -- Aaron.

BROWN: John, thank you very much -- John Zarrella in Miami. Rilya Wilson would be 6 years old. Or to put it another way, she should be 6 years old. Her story was compelling, in and of itself, and a terrible indictment of the system that lost her.

The question beyond Rilya's own fate is whether the state has really gotten any better at protecting the children like her.

We're joined from Miami tonight by Shana Gruskin, who has been covering this story for "The Sun Sentinel" newspapers.

Good to have you with us. Have caseloads changed? Are they smaller for child welfare workers?

SHANA GRUSKIN, "THE SUN SENTINEL": Well, after Rilya, there was a huge turnover. A lot of caseworkers -- or a few were fired because there was more scrutiny on them, and others resigned. It was just too much, too intense.

So in general, I think caseloads are probably the same. It obviously depends on where you are in the state. But it hasn't gotten much better now.

BROWN: Have there been other Rilyas?

GRUSKIN: There certainly are other missing children. There are usually about 450 children who are considered missing in the state. Most of those are runaways. Some are parental abductions. And there are children dying way too often.

BROWN: I think it was colleagues of yours who took the list of missing kids and went out and found a bunch of them. Has the state been as successful as the newspaper in finding these missing children? GRUSKIN: You know, I think the state is trying to follow the same pattern as the newspaper did, which was simply using public records to find these children. And they are doing a better job of trying to keep us, the public, updated on children that they're finding. But for one child they find, another they lose.

BROWN: Do -- obviously, you've spent a lot of time writing on this. Other papers I assume do. Do you sense that people want to read these stories or they go, all right, we get it, the system doesn't work?

GRUSKIN: I think that people care a lot about individual children, individual cases. But day-to-day, people are living their lives.

Right now, the legislature is in session, and there's a lot of talk about funding. And "The Sun Sentinel" did a survey just before the governor's election to see just how much child welfare matters to people. And while they cared, they cared more about education and health care. Those were the issues they were voting on.

BROWN: Do you think it would have made any difference if Rilya Wilson had been a little white child?

GRUSKIN: You know, I don't know. I hadn't thought to ask that question. I'll be honest. I don't think so. I think a lot of attention has been paid to Rilya's case. And I think that that would have happened no matter what her race was.

BROWN: All right. Let me -- we can walk away from this, if you want here. But if -- you know, many of these children who are in foster homes or taken out of homes are minority children. Does that -- Does anyone there think that that affects how the funding works, how voters feel about the issue, any of that?

GRUSKIN: Well, it's certainly a possibility. I know there's concern among many advocates that the system does tend to remove minority children faster from their homes, which means that the foster care system is weighted more heavily with minority children than it should be statistically.

And I guess there's been some discussion about whether or not people feel these are children in their neighborhoods, these are children in their schools, or whether they feel like they're somebody else's children, so there's a little bit of a distance there.

BROWN: It's not necessarily your place to grade state agencies, so again, if you want to walk away from this, do. But do you feel like the state does a better job -- not a perfect job, clearly, but a better job -- at protecting these children than it did a year ago?

GRUSKIN: You know, it's very hard for me to say, as you said, Aaron. I think that Jerry Regier has stepped in and tried to make some quick changes that will make an impact.

For example, the state was just swimming with a backlog of open child abuse investigations, any investigations open longer than 60 days. And in those open cases, caseworkers hadn't made a decision about whether or not this child was safe. Many advocates find that very dangerous.

When Jerry Regier came in, the new secretary, the first thing he did was have the investigators attack that backlog. And that backlog has dropped from about 30,000 cases in December to about 11,000 today.

So obviously, that's a positive change. There's still far more to do. And I think Mr. Regier himself would agree with that.

BROWN: Shana, thank you for joining us tonight. You've done terrific work on this, as the paper has.

GRUSKIN: Thank you very much.

BROWN: Thank you very much. "The Sun Sentinel," newspaper. I'm pretty sure it's Fr. Lauderdale. It's outside of Miami, in any case.

Coming up on NEWSNIGHT, we'll update the SARS story and extraordinary measures being taken to deal with the illness in Hong Kong, all across Asia.

Take a break first. This is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

BROWN: And still to come on NEWSNIGHT, we're about 20 minutes away from the first manned-space launch since the Columbia tragedy. We'll cover it live.

Also coming up, the fall of South African icon, or at least was an icon, Winnie Mandela, convicted and sentenced for theft and fraud.

Break first. This is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: It is a hard fact to swallow that a Mandela could bring shame in the nation of South Africa. The Mandela we're talking about is Winnie Mandela, the ex-wife of Nelson Mandela. She's sentenced to five years in jail for fraud and theft. It's not even her first brush with the law nor is it even her most serious and it wasn't a surprise to South Africans who knew her story well but there is still a sadness in seeing someone we thought was a fighter for justice turn out to be something far less than that.

Here's CNN's Charlayne Hunter-Gault. OK. We've got a problem and we'll try and correct it.

In the meantime, we'll move onto SARS. An image caught our eye this evening. The U.S. envoy leaving Beijing after the nuclear talks with North Korea, he was detained at the airport not because the North Koreans had reconsidered but he had to get his temperature taken. North Korea having the bomb is one thing, SARS is clearly another. CNN's Andrew Brown filed tonight from Hong Kong.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANDREW BROWN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In a bid to beat the SARS virus, travelers flooding into Hong Kong from China are being given health checks. Officials are looking for signs of fever, an early symptom of SARS. Eventually the Hong Kong government hopes to take the temperature of every person who crosses the mainland border, an ambitious plan. There are around four million arrivals a month and many scientists say whatever governments do, SARS cases will keep cropping up.

JOHN MACKENZIE, W.H.O. TECHNICAL CONSULTANT: I think you'll see better control but however suspect the virus is here to stay.

BROWN: People aren't scared of all high temperatures. You'll find Fabiana Concesca (ph) and Lenny Lopez (ph) down at the beach at noon when the mercury climbs beyond 90 Fahrenheit, 32 Celsius but they're here partly because it's an open area where they think there's less risk of contracting SARS.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think there are much, much lower chances of getting infected here than in the bars or in central.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it's -- yeah, less chance to get something.

BROWN: Well, it's perfectly natural for people to worry about their health. Some experts say if you become obsessed about SARS that creates high levels of stress, which ironically may make you even more vulnerable. Psychologists like Alan Dorkiss (ph) say the adrenaline rush has to stop.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If people continue to react in that mode out of fear, out of stress, what happens is they're no longer functioning optimally. Their body is going into override.

BROWN: But the bad news just keeps on coming. The death toll in Hong Kong continues to rise and it seems people are too busy avoiding the virus to really relax.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I'm scared, more scared than before.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Life has changed. We spend much less time in shopping malls, much more time outdoors.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): When the war drags on, you get used to the bombs.

BROWN: And according to some people, that's when you need to let go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The very fight against life is what's creating resistance and that is what is actually inviting the virus to settle in. This is not something that will go away. This is something that people have to learn to live with.

BROWN: Andrew Brown, CNN, Hong Kong.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Back to South Africa now and Winnie Mandela who was sentenced to prison for fraud. Here's CNN's Charlayne Hunter-Gault.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHARLAYNE HUNTER-GAULT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): There she was, the Winnie of legend, strong in the face of trouble, but this trouble, said the judge who sentenced her to five years in prison, was self-inflicted, a gross breach of trust.

Pretoria Regional Court Magistrate Pete Johnson said he hadn't forgotten her important part in the liberation struggle, her suffering, but he said, something went wrong. The magistrate said it first considered her a kind of Robin Hood who took from those who had to give to those who didn't have, but after further consideration, he said, he saw she was concerned about her own financial problem, that despite a handsome salary as the member of parliament, she took from the poor.

The magistrate said it wanted to send a message that this kind of crime would not be tolerated. Co-accused Addy Moonmon (ph) with more counts of fraud and theft was sentenced to seven years in jail, two suspended. Madikizela-Mandela sentenced to five years, with one suspended, but under a legal provision seems likely to serve only eight months. At 66, her age appeared to be a mitigating factor, along with the fact that she didn't benefit directly from the fraud or theft. Madikizela-Mandela said in a statement she expects ultimately to have her innocence confirmed.

In her Soweto neighborhood, mixed reactions. Constance Mocalla Bati (ph) spoke of her gratitude for her struggle, for her liberation but approved of ...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Punishment. She's not above the law.

HUNTER-GAULT: But Seebong Geely Sletswayo (ph) disagreed.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She's not the Winnie we know.

HUNTER-GAULT (on camera): She needs help.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, she needs help.

HUNTER-GAULT (voice-over): Tabo Matong (ph) applauded Madikizela-Mandela's decision to resign from parliament.

Madikizela-Mandela and her co-conspirator are out on bail pending appeal.

(on camera): At the end of the day, Winnie Madikizela-Mandela has been through worse than this and bounced back. It's hard to believe she's going to retreat behind these high walls of her Soweto home and not be heard from again.

Charlayne Hunter-Gault, CNN, Soweto, South Africa.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: And ahead on NEWSNIGHT tonight for tomorrow's news tonight. It doesn't get better than that, does it? We'll check morning papers from around the country and around the world. We'll take a break first.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: All right. Time to check the morning papers from around the country, around the world. A lot of what we'll look at is how newspapers covered or are covering SARS but first the New York Times which is covering lots of things and many of them interesting. We'll get to the SARS stuff in a moment.

In the middle in Afghanistan, violence stalls renewal effort. We don't pay much attention to Afghanistan. An American soldier died there today or yesterday in any case.

SARS over here. Beijing borders saw -- broadens SARS quarantine. Even with my glasses I can't read this stuff. More cases found there. Hong Kong doctors ordeal is patient with new disease and a terrific picture on the front page of the Times as well. All SARS related.

Now the "China Post," which is the English language paper in Taiwan, the whole front page is SARS. Landing visas for Hong Kong residents to be suspended. Many at Ho Ping (ph), that's the big hospital, many Ho Ping (ph) staff refuse to treat SARS victims. The mayor warns hospital staff not to break the quarantine. Hong Kong officials attacked for not giving staff protective gear. Everything on the front page of the China Post is SARS related.

Now Montreal, Canada. Where else would Montreal be? Come on, Aaron. "The Gazette," the English language paper in that fine city in Quebec, "Ontario Winning Battle" is the big headline. SARS fears hurt Montreal as tourists avoid Canada. So "The Gazette," pretty much SARS dominated as well.

"The Boston Herald," you got it. On the lookout for SARS, state to screen Canadians at Birchers conference, the big story in the "Boston Herald" today.

SARS is in the "Atlanta Journal Constitution." I'm running out of papers here. How much time do we have? Forty, OK. We'll just milk it for everything it's worth then. "Nations Sketch SARS Strategy." They don't write these things necessarily with my reading them in time. Nations sketch SARS strategy, disease death toll rises in the "Atlanta Journal Constitution" and they play with the deck of cards in the middle. We hold the hand who's been caught and a little background on who they all are. What they did -- what I don't see on the front page is anything on the flag controversy.

"The Oregonian," why not, from Portland, Oregon. Last one, OK. The Ohio Health Services Group, health and science at the university -- that's what it is -- joined world search for anti-SARS vaccine. So they don't have SARS cases out in Oregon, but they did find a way to localize the story because it's a story that people are talking about.

That's a quick look at morning papers. We'll take a break and hopefully see a manned space launch when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: NASA today named the crew of the next space shuttle mission, the first one since the Columbia tragedy. It includes a three time veteran, an astronaut from Japan's space program and most likely a three person crew for the International Space Station II. NASA expects to fly again, certainly hopes to, as early as the end of the year, which solves the long term problem but not the immediate one. This is why so much is riding on tonight's launch of a Russian Soyuz spaceship with one American astronaut on board, one Russian cosmonaut on board. Helping with our coverage as we move toward launch time, CNN's Miles O'Brien of course, and the commander of the first crew aboard the International Space Station, Astronaut Bill Shepherd.

Miles, why don't you start of us off by just sort of helping people understand a bit what it is they're looking at, where this is all taking place, what time the mission goes, the basic facts of this?

O'BRIEN: All right. We are about six minutes away from launch here and you're looking at a live picture of really a historic piece of space history. That is the launch pad, which in April of 1961, Yuri Gagarin left the earth for the first time from and ever since then about 400 launches have occurred on that very spot. This is the 89th launch of a piloted Soyuz spacecraft. It stands about 163 feet tall. You'll notice that needle at the top. That's the emergency escape rocket, which adds to its safety as a vehicle to get to space. They've had two mishaps over the years.

The first Soyuz mission back in 1967, cosmonaut died on reentry when the parachute did not open, and then in 1971 three cosmonauts perished after spending three weeks in space at the Soyuz space station when they lost cabin pressure on the way down. It's a reliable system. It is not new technology, however. It's 36 years old. Various iterations have occurred over the years, modifications and that's the way the Russians deal with things. They don't build new things, as we look at live pictures inside. Screen right there is Ed Lu, NASA astronaut. I don't know if you can make it out but he is wearing a patch of the STS 107 Columbia crew, which perished on February 1. Screen left, cosmonaut Yuri Malenchenko, who is the commander of this mission. This is the first time an American has served as a flight engineer on a Soyuz capsule -- Aaron.

BROWN: Shep, much is riding on this for the Russians, I would think. This is a chance for them to shine, if you will.

BILL SHEPHERD, FORMER COMMANDER, INTERNATIONAL SPACE STATION: Yes. I think they've been very supportive of trying to sustain the station and that's been a big factor in keeping the station program going. The station has a lot of robustness because, of course, we have more than one way to get to it. Having a capability from pads that the Russians operate in Kazakhstan was a big part of the station design in 1993.

BROWN: Are these two space vehicles, the Russian and the American, dramatically different, or if you basically could fly one could you fly the other?

SHEPHERD: No, they are quite different. The Russian vehicle actually was -- is kind of a grandchild of the original R7 that Korolev had built that put sputnik in orbit, and as Miles said, launched Yuri Gagarin into space in 1961. It's really a different philosophy in Russia that when they have something that works and performs well, they don't do a lot of changes with it. It's pretty similar to a Gemini era spacecraft in the United States that we flew in the '60s as well. The shuttle has got a lot more piloting task to it. The systems on board to get the crew up into orbit and to deal with various failures and malfunctions that could happen has a lot more crew involvement with it.

BROWN: What's going on right now with these two men? Are they -- I mean we saw them a moment ago mugging the camera a little bit. Are they busy now or are they just waiting for the next two and a half minutes or so to pass for those rockets to ignite?

SHEPHERD: Well, they've got their helmets down. They've purged their suits. They're on pure oxygen inside their suits. It's probably a little bit warm there. Sometimes there's kind of a lag in getting the cooling system to get you comfortable. They've been on their backs for two and a half hours with their knees very tight to their chest and I imagine they're getting a little uncomfortable and they're ready to go.

BROWN: Miles, they're going to bring the space station astronauts home. Is there anything particularly tricky about that or is this pretty much routine?

O'BRIEN: It's gotten to be routine. Yuri Malenchenko was the first human being ever to perform a manual docking with a spacecraft. The Russian spacecrafts are capable of fully automatic dockings. The manual capability would be potentially in a backup. Shep, check me on that. Would this be an automatic docking or a manual?

SHEPHERD: It should be. On our mission, Yuri Gidzenko, our Soyuz commander, had to dock a Progress remotely. They have a radar system that switches from one antenna to another. The software had been modified. There was a glitch in it. Yuri took override at the last about 15 meters in the approach and did it manually, which was highly unusual. The Russians prefer to have it done automatically.

BROWN: OK. We've got about -- I'm sorry.

O'BRIEN: And Aaron ...

BROWN: Go ahead, Miles. We've got about a minute and a half. O'BRIEN: With a minute and a half to go, the thing that they really have to do this week, and Shep can attest to this, is have an orderly transition, a handover between the two crews to ensure everybody knows where everything is, because they're not going to be close to help so they need to find something. So this next week is important.

BROWN: OK. We're inside of a minute now. Let's just (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and see what NASA is saying at this point.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... the third American astronaut to ride a Soyuz into orbit.

BROWN: Hear some of the crosstalk going on between ...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thirty seconds from launch.

BROWN: ... NASA as we are 30 seconds away. Miles, would these Russian launches attract a lot of people in the way that a Kennedy Space Center launch does?

O'BRIEN: No, it's not quite the same being out there in the steppes of Kazakhstan. You're pretty much out there in the middle of nowhere.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... vehicle. Ten seconds from launch, first stage engine should be at flight speed.

BROWN: Again, you can see the astronauts and the cosmonaut on the left picture.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Three, two, one. Engines start and lift off, lift off of the Soyuz, beginning Cosmonaut Yuri Malenchenko and Astronaut Ed Lu's six-month journey in space to continue the permanent human occupancy of the International Space Station.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you see Yuri has got (UNINTELLIGIBLE) ascent.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... in pitch program according to flight controllers as the Soyuz begins to streak toward a rendezvous at the International Space Station.

BROWN: Miles, can that picture on the left possibly be live? It appears as if nothing's changed at all.

O'BRIEN: It is live, and I -- you know, what you're not getting from that picture are the press of the g forces that they're feeling. It also I have been told, and Shep (UNINTELLIGIBLE) out of this one. It's a much smoother ride in the space shuttle. You know, the space shuttle for the first minute and a half has those solid rocket boosters on it, and they are kind of a rough ride by comparison to a liquid rocket. You see a little bit of vibration there, except it's kind of smooth, isn't it?

SHEPHERD: Yes. I would agree with that. The solid rockets on the shuttle come up with quite a jolt when they light. You don't have that same sensation, because the Soyuz is completely liquid fuel in all three stages. So the ride is a little bit smoother, but they've got about three g's on them right now so they're really being pressed down (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

BROWN: Those last -- Shep, those last 10 or 15 seconds, is your heart just beating out of your space suit?

SHEPHERD: I think you're just kind of watching all the gauges and the parameters for possible aborting. You're fairly busy so I think most of the guys that -- most of the people that I flew with are pretty intent on efforts all over. Then they realize they've done something really exceptional but while they're doing it they're quite busy.

BROWN: And how long is that period? I mean is it a minute or is it 10 minutes or is it an hour and a half? Whatever it is where you finally realize that the launch part which we all rightly or wrongly think of as the most dangerous part, that the launch part has gone fine and that you're on your way?

SHEPHERD: I think it depends on the pace of the post- (UNINTELLIGIBLE) activity on shuttle. You can have a very busy period because you're coming up within half an orbit with a burn that's going to raise your altitude, your (UNINTELLIGIBLE) as well, to get your orbit to be circular. So that -- there's a lot of work there for the shuttle. In the Soyuz, it goes right to a circular orbit, and a little bit lower than a shuttle would go, so once the engines shut down you have pressure checks, but activity quiets down considerably.

BROWN: Miles, we're working towards about a minute left here in the program. Bittersweet for NASA?

O'BRIEN: Yes, it is. It's obviously a sad moment, because certainly NASA would prefer that the space shuttle Atlantis had launched on March 1. I think though it is sweet in the sense that they realize the power of this partnership, which was sort of foistered upon NASA for some geopolitical reasons, quite frankly. I mean, after all, for years and years they were both rivals and it was difficult bedfellows to say the least, but I think in this moment it's a bit of sad irony, but it surely shows to NASA the value of an international partnership.

BROWN: And Miles, when do the -- when did the space station occupants, the current ones, get back to earth?

O'BRIEN: They're back on May 4, and that in and of itself has got to be a tough arrival for them. They were of course in space watching the Columbia tragedy unfold and these were after all friends and colleagues of theirs and that's got to be a tough thing.

BROWN: Miles, thank you. Shep, thank you. It's an interesting way to end the week. We'll see you all next week. Have a wonderful weekend and good night for all of us at NEWSNIGHT.

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Missing; Live Coverage of Soyuz Launch>