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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown

Bush Ready to Send U.S. Troops Into Liberia; Israeli Troops Pull Out of Bethlehem; Battle Over Ten Commandments in Alabama

Aired July 02, 2003 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening everyone.
You might not know much about Liberia, but we suspect you'll be learning more in the days ahead. It is estimated a 1,000 U.S. troops could be headed there. It is not exactly clear what the strategic interest is in this African country, a place that is tearing itself apart; lots of people have died in a nasty civil war.

But one of the first things you'll learn about the country is that it has an American history. It was founded by freed American slaves. And so while there may not be much strategic value, there is history. And we begin "The Whip" tonight with the question of Liberia. Our senior White House correspondent John King on duty.

John, a headline.

JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, the most urgent Bush administration priority is getting Liberian President Charles Taylor to step down, but as those negotiations continue, officials tell us the president is poised to send a peacekeeping force, a U.S.-led peacekeeping force into Liberia perhaps quite soon.

BROWN: John, thank you very much. We will get back to you at the top tonight.

To the Middle East next, as Israeli forces pull back from Bethlehem. Dan Lothian is in Jerusalem with that.

Dan, a headline.

DAN LOTHIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, the biblical town of Bethlehem becomes the latest symbol of change in the region. Israeli troops have pulled out. Now it's up to the Palestinians police to keep the peace.

BROWN: Dan, thank you.

To Alabama next, and the fight involving the man who became known as the Ten Commandments judge. Brian Cabell on that, he's in Birmingham.

Brian, the headline.

BRIAN CABELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A battle is brewing here tonight in Montgomery, Aaron. The supreme court justice, the chief justice, has the Ten Commandments posted in his rotunda. He wants to keep them there. A federal appeals court wants to take it down. Next likely stop is Washington, D.C., the U.S. Supreme Court -- Aaron.

BROWN: Brian, thank you. Get to you, too, tonight.

Also coming up on the program, a major decision affecting gay employees by the biggest retail on the planet, the largest private employer in the world. We will look at what drove the decision by Wal-Mart and the impact on the rest of corporate America.

Their news tonight comes from Canada, which is also good news. No, it's great news for that country after SARS and mad cow. Canada could use some great news and it got it today. Vancouver, British Columbia will host the Olympics in 2010.

And we are not just the most trusted name in news, we can actually tell you tomorrow's news, tonight. A journalistic feat if ever there was one. It must be our nightly look to tomorrow morning's papers. All of that and more, in the hour ahead.

We begin with the prospect of more American troops heading to another distant land. On a day when two more American soldiers died in Iraq, the White House is suggesting that American troops may be headed for the African country of Liberia. In this case, not to wage a war, but to try and end one. Here's our Senior White House Correspondent John King.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KING (voice over): The president all but dared those trying to kill U.S. forces in Iraq to attack again. And sources tell CNN he is poised to order troops on another dangerous mission, peacekeeping in Liberia.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We are exploring all options as to how to keep the situation peace and stable.

KING: Administration sources say an official announcement could come as early as this week. They say the president and top national security aides discussed deploying 500 to 1,000 U.S. troops for a mission that also would include West African sources. These sources described the Pentagon as somewhat reluctant. It is stretched thin in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the last major deployment in Africa, in Somalia, ended in retreat 10 years ago, after 18 Americans were killed.

Just last week, Mr. Bush called on Liberian President Charles Taylor to step down. Now, he wants him to leave the country as well.

BUSH: In order for there to be peace and stability in Liberia, Charles Taylor needs to leave now.

KING: Taylor is under United Nations indictment for war crimes. The official White House line is Taylor should leave Liberia now and still face trial later, but -- SUSAN RICE, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: It sounds to me, like President Bush is opening the door to a deal in which Taylor goes into exile and escapes the jurisdiction of the U.N. special court.

KING: Mr. Bush took questions after introducing his new global AIDS coordinator. He says the attacks in Iraq are an effort to get the United States to pack up and leave before a new government is established.

BUSH: My answer is bring them on. We have the force necessary to deal with the security situation.

KING: The president once again rejected the idea that intelligence saying Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction was wrong.

BUSH: He had them. And it's just a matter of time.

KING: As a candidate for president, then-governor Bush, promised to think long and hard before sending U.S. troops overseas.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KING: But now, as the Pentagon finalizes the planning, the White House insists a troop deployment to Liberia would meet the key president's test. They say it is in the vital U.S. national security interests. And Aaron, they say it would be a limited deployment, most saying 90, most perhaps 120 days.

BROWN: At the risk of sounding dumb, what is the vital U.S. security interests there?

KING: Well, one there is the history. As you noted at the top of the show, it is a country founded by former U.S. slaves. There are historical ties. The British recently went into Sierra Leone. The French went into the Ivory Coast. Some say it is the U.S.'s turn.

And this president will make the case, on the African trip he beings in days, that when you have political chaos, instability and civil war that invites terrorists. That rebel groups looking to disrupt things look for people with guns and bombs. They make bad friends. But if you want to keep terrorists out of Africa, including Western Africa, you need to have stable democracies.

BROWN: John, thank you. We will let you get out of rain down there in Washington tonight. Thank you very much.

KING: Thank you.

BROWN: Senior White House correspondent John King.

Nobody pretends getting involved in Liberia would not be without risk, the specter of Black Hawk down, or Baghdad today, for that matter, comes up a lot. But on the streets of Monrovia, the capital, quite a few Liberians to beg to differ; they badly want an American presence. So much so that even the mere hint of it, the premature hint of it as it turned out, was reason yesterday to celebrate. Here is CNN's Jeff Koinange.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEFF KOINANGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): (AUDIO GAP) ...press briefing with a question about the U.S. involvement in negotiations for a new government in Liberia.

ARI FLEISCHER, WHITE HOUSE SPOKESMAN: President is determined to help the people of Liberia to find a path to peace. The exact steps that could be taken are still under review.

QUESTION: Sir, you aren't ruling out that U.S. troops might go to Liberia?

FLEISCHER: I am not ruling it out.

KOINANGE: What Fleischer hadn't anticipated was the reaction his words that would invoke in the streets of Monrovia.

(CROWDS CHANTING)

KOINANGE: Outside the U.S. Embassy here, scenes of hysteria as Liberians celebrated the news they thought they heard.

(on camera): The reaction in the streets in Monrovia was almost instantaneous. Thousands pouring into the streets saying, we want peace, send in the Americans.

(voice over): Some even brought with them a copy of "History of the American Nation." just to show their new-found loyalty.

KOINANGE (on camera): What makes you think they are going to bring peace, these Americans?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, we feel Americans can bring peace, because why? They are the original founders of this nation And secondly, they are the superpower of the world.

KOINANGE: The handful of Marines guarding the U.S. embassy here became the center of attention for those celebrating a possible U.S. intervention. Retired Marine Colonel Hirsch Hernandez has been training the security staff at the U.S. embassy for the past eight years and says he welcomes the deployment of troops, if it will help bring about peace.

COL. HIRSCH HERNANDEZ, U.S. MARINE CORPS. (RET.): It's been a long road for these poor people. And the 25th was the icing on the cake; 25 dead, 53 wounded, in a wanton act of savage -- of barbarity by whoever did it. These people are so traumatized, they need help. They need help from somebody.

KOINANGE: What many here fail to realize is that the statement issued by the White House was merely a consideration. And more importantly, that if any U.S. deployment was to happen it would be in a Liberia without its popular, but embattled, President Charles Taylor. They may not understand the subtleties of political comment, but these folks have been suffering for the most of the last quarter century, and rejoice at the hint of any good news.

(CROWDS CHANTING)

Jeff Koinange, CNN, Monrovia, Liberia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Next, to the Middle East and the rumble of tanks and army trucks. The difference tonight being which direction the tanks, the trucks, and the soldiers were heading. The story from CNN's Dan Lothian.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LOTHIAN (voice over): It was little more than a year ago that the violent Israeli-Palestinians conflict went through Bethlehem's Manger Square; 41 days of a violent standoff.

On Wednesday, the pathway to peace went through Bethlehem, instead of gunfire, church bells and parading Palestinians security police falling into place after Israeli troops pulled out.

HANNA NASSR, BETHLEHEM MAYOR: This is the first step, Bethlehem and Gaza first. This is the first step towards the implementation of the road map.

LOTHIAN: Israeli troops will still maintain a presence at the city's main entrance, but they will no longer enter Bethlehem to make arrests or conduct patrols. On this narrow cobblestone street packed with sidewalk vendors and small shops, Halib Khutu (ph) is skeptical, unwilling to embrace this latest attempt at peace.

(on camera): You think the army will come back?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

LOTHIAN: So there's no trust?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No trust.

LOTHIAN: Pharmacist Nabil Adili is cautiously optimistic.

NABIL ADILI, PHARMACY OWNER: I am looking to implement a real peace. Real cooperation, real good life for the two people. When this takes place, we can celebrate.

LOTHIAN: A sentiment shared by 80-year-old Aaron Schwartsmith (ph), an Israeli living in Jerusalem, dodging bullets from Bethlehem and neighboring Bajalla (ph). After months of anger and frustration, he now sees encouraging signs out his window.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): If we want things to be better it needs both sides to want things being better. LOTHIAN: Israel hopes the Palestinians Authority will be able to maintain security, preventing violence and cracking down on militants, long after the celebration in Bethlehem fades.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LOTHIAN: Despite these latest steps in the peace process, the violence in the region does continue. A few hours ago, the head of a local militant group in the West Bank was shot and killed during the exchange of gunfire with Israeli troops. His assistant was wounded.

And Wednesday night, three Israelis in the Southern Gaza were slightly wounded during a rocket attack -- Aaron.

BROWN: Anybody claiming responsibility for that attack?

LOTHIAN: No, not yet. It is still early here in the morning, and no responsibility yet for that attack, but Aaron, clearly what this points out is that while there are these small steps that are being made on this road map to peace, there is still a long way to go.

BROWN: And the next step in the process would be what? Is it clear?

LOTHIAN: Well, it is not clear yet. What Palestinians want is for additional pull out. They are hopeful that in other regions, Israeli troops will be pulling out. But from the Israeli side what they are looking for is an end to violence everywhere before they take additional steps.

BROWN: Dan, thank you very much.

Dan Lothian, who is in Jerusalem tonight.

Onto the anthrax investigation now: The one in Iraq and the one in this country as well. Today, as if things couldn't get much stranger or more fascinating, the two stories became intertwined. Here is CNN's Jamie McIntyre.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Elite units of U.S. special operations forces called special mission units have been given the primary responsibility for targeting terrorists and preventing the spread of weapons of mass destruction.

Years before, this trailer, which the CIA believes is a mobile germ warfare plant was discovered in the aftermath of the war in Iraq, many of those U.S. commandos had already seen something very much like it.

COLIN POWELL, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: The signature vehicles are gone. The tents are gone.

MCINTYRE: Drawing on the same intelligence, the CIA used to produce these artist renderings of the mobile labs presented by Secretary of State Colin Powell to the United Nations in February. The U.S. military, beginning in 2000, constructed mock-ups to train its counter-terrorism troops.

At Fort Bragg, North Carolina, U.S. Commandos, including the secretive Delta Force, practiced on a highly detailed mock lab modeled on the trailer's design, sources say.

They learned not only how to identify its distinctive and dangerous hardware, but more importantly, how to safely neutralize it. In an interesting twist, it turns out, one of the outside experts who helped make the training realistic was Dr. Stephen Hatfill, later identified by the Justice Department as a person of interest in the investigation into letters containing anthrax that killed five people in the United States in late 2001.

Hatfill worked for a company called Science Applications International Corporation, which was under contract to the Pentagon and the CIA.

(on camera): Pentagon officials stress while the mock labs appeared very authentic and used some real equipment they were nonfunctional and never produced any actual bio agent. And Hatfill has never been charged with anything by the U.S. government nor has any evidence been produced to link him, or the mock labs, with the anthrax killings.

Jamie McIntyre, CNN, the Pentagon.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: And on NEWSNIGHT tonight, the power of Wal-Mart and with what it means when the retailer institutes a policy of nondiscrimination against gays. And later in the hour, the face of American military and what the president wants to do to attract new recruits. From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: When you think about the institutions that shape our lives, our culture, you might think first to the Congress or the Supreme Court. But another hugely powerful force can be found down Highway 101 or Route 5, or anyplace where there is a Wal-Mart.

It is not stretch to say that, as Wal-Mart goes, so goes America. What it chooses to sell, who it hires, how it treats them; these are decisions that affect millions and set an example for other companies as well. That's why Wal-Mart's decision today, adding gay employees to its anti-discrimination policy, is a very big deal. Here's CNN's Chris Huntington.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRIS HUNTINGTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The biggest company on the planet now says it will not discriminate against gay and lesbian workers and Wednesday it put that in writing. Wal-Mart sent a memo to the managers of its 3500 U.S. stores with amended employment policy pledging support for "all qualified persons regardless of race, color, religion, gender, national origin, age, disability or status as a veteran, or sexual orientation."

Folks at a New Jersey Wal-Mart took the new rules in stride.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I feel that everyone needs to make a living. And I feel that God don't discriminate against people.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm in the middle. It doesn't matter. When I need something from here, I'll get it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We actually work here. So we don't have no problem with anybody.

HUNTINGTON: A Wal-Mart spokesperson told CNN the new policy formalizes in writing what our company expectations have always been regarding the respect for all people... It is in response to concerns raised by gay employees at Wal-Mart, shareholder activism did not play a role in this case."

A coalition of gay and lesbian shareholder activists had worked on the policy directly with Wal-Mart for several years, but they say getting credit is not nearly as important as setting the right example.

SHELLEY ALPERN, SHAREHOLDER RIGHTS ACTIVIST: When a large company, like Wal-Mart, makes a policy change like this, it tends to have a ripple effect throughout the industry.

KIM MILLS, HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH: We are talking about a country that represents in middle America. Its based in middle America, its clientele is middle America. And now it is adopting a policy which says this is just a basic America value.

HUNTINGTON: With Wal-Mart's shift in policy, there's only one company remaining in the top five -- in fact the top 70 -- of Fortune 500 without an explicit gay and lesbian anti-discrimination policy. ExxonMobil has said it does not need to change because its employment policy is already nondiscriminatory. Those who oppose explicit protection for homosexuals say such policies are discriminatory.

PETE SPRING, FAMILY RESEARCH COUNCIL: Adding sexual orientation to such a policy implies that disapproval of homosexuality is just as offensive as racism or sexism. And that's a message that I don't like it see Wal-Mart sending.

HUNTINGTON (on camera): On the related issue of whether to provide benefits for the live-in partners of its employees, Wal-Mart also sides with the majority of Fortune 500 companies, it does not provide those benefits and has no plans to do so anytime soon.

Chris Huntington, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE) BROWN: This is second time in as many months that Wal-Mart has walked through the cultural minefield. In May, you may recall, it pulled racy men's magazines like "Maxim" off of its shelves because it said lots of customer complaints. So what drives these decisions? Has to do with principle or just the principle of good business?

For more on how companies make these decisions and the impact of their choices. We are joined by Molly Epstein; she is a professor at the Business School at Emory University. She specializes in corporate culture.

Nice to have you with us.

When you look at the list of companies that already had a policy of nondiscrimination, it's not so much that Wal-Mart was ahead of the curve, it's that Wal-Mart caught up with the curve, isn't it?

EPSTEIN: Yes, they did. They were not explicitly stating that they supported anti-discrimination for gays and lesbians, but they have now stated it explicitly. And I think that it sends a powerful message both internally and externally.

BROWN: Externally, to whom?

EPSTEIN: To customers, and to all the stakeholders, to shareholders in particular.

BROWN: Is there much of a risk for Wal-Mart in doing this?

EPSTEIN: There is some risk. And certainly some very conservative organizations have already spoken out against this decision. However, in the long run, I believe that it will be a very -- a very powerful addition to their bottom line, that it will be good for business, and any boycotts they might experience or negative press will quickly be overcome.

BROWN: It's an interesting balance. Are there obviously lots of people, I presume, who are uncomfortable with this sort of thing. But there are also lots of people who are gays and lesbians and the parents and friends of gays and lesbians, who may now shop at Wal-Mart who might have not otherwise done so?

EPSTEIN: Absolutely. Wal-Mart has established itself as a staunch supporter of family values. You mentioned the magazines. They also refused to sell CDs with explicit lyrics or video games that are overly violent. So they have kind of put a stake in the ground saying they are a family friendly company, and now what they have done is expand their definition of family friendly.

BROWN: Is it the next logical step, then, to extend benefits to domestic partners?

EPSTEIN: It is a next logical step, but it is a very different issue. So I would not expect it to happen anytime soon. But it is a next logical step.

BROWN: Why is it such a -- why is it a more complicated issue than nondiscrimination?

EPSTEIN: Because it's about the bottom line. It's about cost savings. And what they have -- what Wal-Mart has done now is made a very clear statement to shareholders and to customers and to employees about their inclusion. It hasn't cost them anything except the short- term affects they may receive through any protests or boycotts.

But once they start extending benefits, it starts costing money. Now, the biggest decision is, does this help us retain and attract top employees? And I imagine they thought in this through very closely before they decided that, yes, it would.

BROWN: That they have clearly every big company has gay and lesbian employees, and this will make it easier for them to keep those good employees if they so choose?

EPSTEIN: Correct. Absolutely.

BROWN: Professor, thank you for joining us. Good to have you on the program.

EPSTEIN: Thank you.

BROWN: Thank you very much.

EPSTEIN: Thank you.

BROWN: Still ahead on the program, celebration in Canada. Vancouver, British Columbia wins the right to host the 2010 or 20-10? Not sure how you want to say that. But anyways, the Winter Olympics. And we'll look at how that story was reported north of the border, after a break. Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: The last time Canada made Olympic news, it was pretty much apoplectic over the judging in the figure skating competition. This is a country that takes its sport quite seriously. Eventually its skaters receive its gold medals and today the country picked up gold as well. Vancouver out there in the Pacific Northwest won the 2010 Winter Games. Big deal? You betcha! Here is how it played on Canada's Global Television Network.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The International Olympic Committee has the honor of announcing that 21st Olympic Winter Games in 2010 are awarded to the city of Vancouver.

(CHEERS)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That was 8:45 this morning. The dramatic culmination of years of work and tonight we will take a long look at the work ahead, the construction, the benefits, the long road, literally and figuratively, to the 2010 Winter Olympics. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I told the prime minister, actually, that I'm very confident. Not because I didn't think that Korea or Austria deserved to win. I felt confident that we were going to win because I felt that Canada was deserving.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now that we have won the Games, is there federal money coming for the transit lines through Richmond?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why do you take these things to talk about? We won the Games. Everything will be well-done. Don't worry. They were confident enough that the Game for us, and we won. Can you have a good story once in awhile? Tell them that we won, OK?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They pulled it off. And all the sweeter because the bids from Austria and Korea were so good. Canada's coming home with the gold.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As the wait continued, the anticipation and anxiety levels soared. Would it be Pyongyang or Vancouver? GM Place (ph) was a sea of thousands of people holding one huge collective breath. Nervously waiting for the magic word.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Awarded to the city of -- Vancouver!

(CHEERS)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When the announcement came out I have no shame in saying I had tears in my eyes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Vancouver will make sure that all Canadians are proud of the city because we're going to put on a world-class event to make the whole country look good.

DANIEL IGALI, CANADIAN OLYMPIC ATHLETE: It's not just about hosting the world for two weeks. It's not a big party. This is about showing the world that we can do something to bring the world together, even if it's just for two weeks. And I'm just excited about that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): And so was everyone else at this celebration. A moment in history with many more to follow.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (singing): It's a new world, it's a new start...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): The Vancouver bid team has pulled out all the stops. Our own Brian Adams highlights the presentation shown IOC delegates in Prague hours earlier. In Whistler (ph), they see the slick video showcasing our youth as the anticipation builds.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My favorite Olympic dream is to be in Olympic speedskating.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's to be a pairs figure skater.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's to be in the giant slalom.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's to be a ski jumper.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just before 8:00 a.m., we learned Austria is out in the first vote. It's now Canada and Korea in the runoff. The young athletes have their fingers crossed. Even foreign journalists here sense a Canadian win.

BILL TRIPLETT, U.S. JOURNALIST: You guys wear your maple leaf on your sleeves, and I love it, because you are just so out there with your emotions about wanting this so much.

LEANNE YOUNES, AUSTRALIAN JOURNALIST: You've got the facilities and the absolute -- the spirit to carry it off really, really well.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And The 21st Olympic Winter Games in 2010 are awarded to the city of Vancouver.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Global TV, that's pretty cool. They're pretty happy out there. Vancouver's a great city, second-prettiest city in the Pacific Northwest. Lived in Seattle. Three provinces east. Boy, I like the way this works together.

Canada is celebrating another decision, the World Health Organization taking Toronto off of list of cities affected by SARS. Last new case of SARS reported on the 12th of June. As of Monday, 22 people in Toronto still battling the disease.

Senator Hillary Clinton turned up in Amsterdam today selling her book "Living History." In Dutch, that's "Mijn Verhaal." The book went on sale in the Netherlands about a month ago. Since then, the Dutch have bought about 35,000 copies.

And in Madrid, the continuing adventures of Beckham, David Beckham. Yesterday it was his globally televised turn-and-cough. Tonight, we bring you the wardrobe. The best-known footballer in the world getting number 23. Pretty well-known number, don't you think? It was once worn by Michael Jordan. Still, not in soccer.

Still to come on NEWSNIGHT, who's defending America? Who's in the military now? And who is it the Pentagon wants to enlist?

A break first. This is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BROWN: President Bush spoke about Iraq yesterday, you may recall it, at an event at the White House that was actually something else. It was to mark the end of the draft, exactly 30 years ago. He was surrounded by 30 people who chose to reenlist, men and women, black and white, all colors in between, a group of young people who, as the saying goes, look like America.

But the larger truth is that the all-volunteer force is not all that representative of the country that the troops are fighting and, yes, dying for, something the Defense Department is now trying to change.

Here's NEWSNIGHT's Beth Nissen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BETH NISSEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They serve in the uniform and the name of the United States, but the U.S. armed forces do not represent all segments of the American population. Relatively few are from America's great middle class, even fewer are from the privileged elite.

Author Chris Bauman saw that when he served in the Army.

CHRIS BAUMAN, U.S. ARMY, 1991-1995, AUTHOR, "THE ICE BENEATH YOU": We have a largely blue-collar, lower blue-collar, hard-steel blue-collar, military fighting for a very affluent society.

NISSEN: Statements like that put the Department of Defense on the defensive.

DAVID CHU, DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE, UNDERSECRETARY FOR PERSONNEL: This is a volunteer force. Given it's a volunteer force, we'll never perfectly mirror the country at large.

NISSEN: Yet the Defense Department is launching a new $1.7 million national ad campaign this summer aimed at drawing a broader, more reflective group of recruits.

The campaign's top targets? More middle-class Americans who did well in high school and are aiming for college. The U.S. armed forces are already better educated than the general population. Most all have high school diplomas, higher reading scores.

CHU: We found those who have completed high school successfully are much more likely to complete military service successfully.

NISSEN: To attract more of those headed for college but stymied by the cost, the military is trying to get the word out on its expanded professional programs, education benefits.

CHU: We subsidize going to college, we give credit for many of our courses.

NISSEN: The new campaign is not just aimed at wallets but at hearts and minds. The Defense Department wants a broader population to see the military the way many African-Americans do, as a source of reliable pay, good family benefits, and equal opportunity.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are a merit-based promotion system, and I think African-American citizens have recognized that.

NISSEN: So many that African-Americans account for a disproportionate number, 22 percent, of enlisted personnel. They're only 11 percent of the same age civilian population. They make up even higher number of women in the military. In the army, half of all enlisted women are black.

Military surveys show that many blacks enlist after hearing the positive military experiences of friends and neighbors.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) you talk to young people, how much it is that word of mouth are governs and informs their choices.

NISSEN: So the new ads are designed to foster better word of mouth on the military among Hispanics, the largest minority in the U.S., but notably underrepresented in the U.S. armed forces.

Other ads are pitched to potential enlistees in the northeastern U.S., a longtime dry area for recruiters. The largest percentage of America's troops, more than 40 percent, comes from Southern states, Texas through Florida.

BAUMAN: You know, I'm from New Jersey, and that was rare enough that there were times when my nickname was New Jersey. You could never give someone in the Army the nickname of Alabama or West Virginia, because there were so many of them.

NISSEN: The overall goal, make the already powerful, already professional U.S. armed forces even more reflective of the diverse and democratic society they represent around the world.

Beth Nissen, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Before we go to break, few more items from around the country today. First stop, northern Virginia, and the trial of accused sniper Lee Malvo. Today, a judge ordered a change of venue from Fairfax County, which is a suburb of Washington, D.C., to a town on the North Carolina border.

Lawyers for Mr. Malvo argued that since virtually everyone in the Washington area was a potential victim of the sniper, picking an unbiased jury would be impossible. The judge agreed.

A truck filled with fireworks blew up today at a park in the city of Benita Springs on the west coast of Florida. Four people died. It happened as the fireworks were unloaded. No word yet on why it happened.

And the musician who took the flute and made it swing has died. Herbie Mann lost a long battle with prostate cancer last night at his home in Santa Fe. He was 73. A champion of world music before there was a name for it, Herbie Mann was known as the Pied Piper of jazz. A giant, a visionary, and, above all, a man whose love for music showed in every note he played.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT tonight, the Ten Commandments, and why the battle of whether they belong in a courthouse could make the Supreme Court.

Take a break first. This is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Few years back, Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore wrote an impassioned manifesto called, "Putting God Back in the Public Square." He meant that figuratively. Or did he?

Justice Moore is the guy who literally put God back in the public square, his idea of God, at least, by putting a huge monument bearing the Ten Commandments in the very public rotunda of the Alabama State Judicial Building. Federal appeals court told him yesterday in no uncertain terms he was way out of line and needs to get rid of it.

But like the two-and-a-half-ton monument, Justice Moore is going to be hard to budge.

Here's CNN's Brian Cabell.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRIAN CABELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It is 5,300 pounds of granite and controversy. The monument, occupying a prominent place in the Alabama Supreme Court rotunda, is engraved with the Ten Commandments.

Chief Justice Roy Moore had it placed here two years ago and calls the federal appeals court decision to remove it a violation of the state and federal constitutions.

CHIEF JUSTICE ROY MOORE, ALABAMA SUPREME COURT: When the courts of our land deny the existence of God and pretend to give us rights, they deny the very moral foundation of our law and our government.

CABELL: Moore says he has not yet decided whether or how to appeal the decision.

He rose to prominence eight years ago when he posted the Ten Commandments on his courtroom wall in northern Alabama. In spite of, or because of the controversy, he was elected chief justice in 2000.

Critics say his installation of the monument a year later, in the middle of the night, simply went too far.

STEPHEN GLASSROTH, PLAINTIFF: He's not the chief minister, he is the chief justice. It's a secular role. We don't have a chief minister, and we don't have any ayatollahs.

CABELL: The 11th circuit court judges ruled the monument was an unconstitutional promotion of religion.

Alabama citizens are split over Justice Moore's crusade.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think he's doing it for purely political reasons.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's not the law of the land.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I agree with his principle of defending the Ten Commandments, and I don't care where they put them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, where do we stop? Do we take the "In God We Trust" off of the dollar bills?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABELL: And that's the dilemma, trying to determine what is and what is not constitutional. The word "God," for example, you'll find in public places, you'll find on public documents. But the problem with this monument here is that it is almost a centerpiece. That's how it was described.

Another concern for some of the judges is the motivation behind it. There is a belief, perhaps, that Justice Moore was proselytizing when he installed this monument, Aaron.

BROWN: One or two things. You said he is un -- we'll talk to his lawyer in a second. I thought yesterday they were absolutely certain they were going to appeal. Have they changed their minds? Are they pulling back from that?

CABELL: In the past, they have said they would go to the Supreme Court, the U.S. Supreme Court. Today they said they needed more time to plot their strategy. They wouldn't say absolutely they were going to the Supreme Court. They needed more time to take a look at the document and figure out what to do next.

BROWN: And part of the argument that the -- and again, we'll talk to his lawyer about this, but part of the argument that the judge made before the appeals court is essentially that as the chief justice of the Alabama Supreme Court, he's not -- he can decide what court orders to follow, what court orders he wants to ignore, including, I guess, this one.

Is there any sense he will ignore the court's order?

CABELL: He was asked about -- or his attorney was asked about civil disobedience today, and they kind of finessed that question. So it's uncertain. He has simply issued a statement today about three or four minutes in length, and then he had his attorney answer questions. And frankly, his attorney didn't answer too many questions very directly.

So frankly, at this point, we don't know precisely what Justice Moore is going to do next.

BROWN: Brian, thank you very much. That does present us with a bit of a challenge, since his attorney is next up on the docket.

Herb Titus joins us now from Virginia Beach, Virginia.

It's nice to have you on the program.

Let's deal with the questions that have already been put on the table. The appeals court seemed quite offended at the notion that this judge or any judge or any public official can ignore an order of the court. Does Judge Moore really believe that he is not bound by the law of the land?

HERB TITUS, ATTORNEY FOR JUSTICE ROY MOORE: Well, as I explained to the court of appeals at the oral argument, that goes to the question of remedy. It goes to the question of whether a federal judge can enjoin a state court justice, the highest state court justice of the state of Alabama, and require that justice to remove a monument, when the justice, the state justice, Chief Justice Moore, believes that he's placed it there because of his oath of office.

He swears an oath to uphold the Constitution as he understands it to be, not as some federal judge understands it to be. There's an assumption in this country that whenever a judge makes a decision and issues an order, then that is law. It may or may not be law. It may be contrary to law.

And so what we argued in that particular case is that the court certainly could issue a declaratory judgment, but if it goes beyond that and issues an injunction, without that particular order conforming to the Constitution, then you have a conflict between the oaths of office of the state judicial officer...

BROWN: (UNINTELLIGIBLE), what, what's...

TITUS: ... and the federal court.

BROWN: Well, I don't want to spend all our time on this, but I do want you to respond to this, because what the appeals court compared this to, as you know, is Governor Wallace standing at the schoolhouse door, other Southern governors who did the same thing. I assume the judge doesn't want to be put in that group.

TITUS: Well, he isn't in that group.

BROWN: Well, the court put him there yesterday.

TITUS: He's -- well, if you look at the opinion, you'll see that was a unanimous opinion in Brown versus the Board of Education, which said that race can never be a criteria in the placement of students in a public school.

Now, this court admitted that in the establishment clause cases, there's no clear rule of law. It's all a matter of fact, it's all a matter of case-by-case adjudication. So how do you know what the law is in this particular arena? With regard to the desegregation of schools, there was a uniform rule...

BROWN: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...

TITUS: ... across the board, unanimously voted by...

BROWN: OK.

TITUS: ... the United States Supreme Court. That has not happened in this particular matter.

BROWN: Let's see if we can get a couple or three things done here before we run out of time. To your knowledge, has any federal court or appeals court, federal appeals court, in the country ever allowed the Ten Commandments to be posted in a courtroom or in the court building, a building like the one in Alabama? Has that ever happened?

TITUS: Well, there are certainly Ten Commandment displays in courtrooms all over the country. As a matter of fact, if you go to the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania, you will see a depiction of Moses and the Ten Commandments right behind the chief justice of the state...

BROWN: Then...

TITUS: ... of Pennsylvania.

BROWN: ... what made this different?

TITUS: Well, you'll have to read the opinion. What these people seem to think is that if you're a government official, you can't acknowledge God. It's against the Constitution of the United States to acknowledge God.

Now, we're going to be celebrating the Fourth of July, and the charter of the nation certainly acknowledges God. It acknowledges God as creator. It acknowledges God's law. It acknowledges God as the supreme judge of the world. It acknowledges God as the divine providence.

It's amazing that courts today would interpret the Constitution to basically say that the Declaration of Independence is an unconstitutional document.

BROWN: Well, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not precisely sure that's exactly what courts have done. Let's try for a simpler one. Are you going to appeal this or not?

TITUS: We're certainly discussing that matter. The reason for the decision today was, we need to determine whether we're going to seek a rehearing either by this panel or by all the judges of the 11th circuit, or we're going to proceed directly to the United States Supreme Court. There's no question that we're going to proceed with this case.

BROWN: So it's just a question of what venue you seek and when you seek it.

TITUS: That's correct.

BROWN: OK. Mr. Titus, thanks for joining us tonight. It's an interesting case. We appreciate your time. Thank you.

TITUS: Thank you.

BROWN: Herb Titus is handling, or is one of the lawyers handling the case in Alabama for the chief justice in Alabama.

Take a break, and then, morning papers. Be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Okey-dokey. Time for morning papers around the country. It's true, I'm an easy laugh, that's the truth.

Look, this is the "Vancouver Sun," OK? This is today's "Vancouver Sun." This is the lone exception we make. If your city wins the Olympics, we will run today's paper in this segment. "Yes!" is the headline. "The Games Are Ours!" It's a wonderful picture. Pretty fair newspaper too, the "Vancouver Sun" out in Vancouver, British Columbia.

By the way, you know, yesterday I said there was only one Cincinnati. I was wrong. There's a Cincinnati in Arkansas, and a Cincinnati in Iowa. Aren't I embarrassed?

The "San Francisco Chronicle" -- there's only one San Francisco -- I like this story a lot. "Recall Leader," this is Congressman Dan Issa, I think I'm pronouncing that right, "Twice Held for Illegal Weapons." There was a story about 10 days ago that he'd been busted on a, like, a car theft thing at one point or another.

Anyway, he's got a kind of an interesting past. He's running the recall with mostly his own money, or a lot of his own money, against Gray Davis.

So that's a front-page story, as is "Crop Circles in Solano" -- I hope I pronounced that right -- "Solano County, California." You know, you see what you see here. Some people see spiritual things, other people see a guy with a really weird lawnmower, I guess. Anyway, that made the front page of the "Chronicle" as well.

"The Moscow Times," haven't done this in a while, but I need to inform you that the "Head of Yukos' Parent Company" has been "Arrested." And it's about time, isn't it? I have no idea.

"The Detroit News," what caught my eye here is, there are four stories on the front page, right? "Voters May Decide Affirmative Action," that's the big story. They're teasing five stories on the front page. Up here, "Fedorov Will Not Return." That's a hockey story. There's one of those every day. Four others down there. How much time?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thirty-eight.

BROWN: Thirty-eight. Oh, my. Let's time this right to the second, David.

The "Detroit Free Press," "U.S. Arrests Ex-Nazi Guard." He served a concentration camp in Austria, "Deportation Sought." These are -- these come up every now and then. That's a pretty fair story.

Twenty seconds?

The weather in Chicago tomorrow, according to the "Chicago Sun- Times," "Flame... " What the heck shot was that, guys? Come on! "Flamethrower." That's -- there it is. Thank you very much. You have this problem at home too.

Have a great Fourth of July. I'll see you again on Monday. We're back tomorrow. Good night for all of us.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





Troops Pull Out of Bethlehem; Battle Over Ten Commandments in Alabama>


Aired July 2, 2003 - 22:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening everyone.
You might not know much about Liberia, but we suspect you'll be learning more in the days ahead. It is estimated a 1,000 U.S. troops could be headed there. It is not exactly clear what the strategic interest is in this African country, a place that is tearing itself apart; lots of people have died in a nasty civil war.

But one of the first things you'll learn about the country is that it has an American history. It was founded by freed American slaves. And so while there may not be much strategic value, there is history. And we begin "The Whip" tonight with the question of Liberia. Our senior White House correspondent John King on duty.

John, a headline.

JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, the most urgent Bush administration priority is getting Liberian President Charles Taylor to step down, but as those negotiations continue, officials tell us the president is poised to send a peacekeeping force, a U.S.-led peacekeeping force into Liberia perhaps quite soon.

BROWN: John, thank you very much. We will get back to you at the top tonight.

To the Middle East next, as Israeli forces pull back from Bethlehem. Dan Lothian is in Jerusalem with that.

Dan, a headline.

DAN LOTHIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, the biblical town of Bethlehem becomes the latest symbol of change in the region. Israeli troops have pulled out. Now it's up to the Palestinians police to keep the peace.

BROWN: Dan, thank you.

To Alabama next, and the fight involving the man who became known as the Ten Commandments judge. Brian Cabell on that, he's in Birmingham.

Brian, the headline.

BRIAN CABELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A battle is brewing here tonight in Montgomery, Aaron. The supreme court justice, the chief justice, has the Ten Commandments posted in his rotunda. He wants to keep them there. A federal appeals court wants to take it down. Next likely stop is Washington, D.C., the U.S. Supreme Court -- Aaron.

BROWN: Brian, thank you. Get to you, too, tonight.

Also coming up on the program, a major decision affecting gay employees by the biggest retail on the planet, the largest private employer in the world. We will look at what drove the decision by Wal-Mart and the impact on the rest of corporate America.

Their news tonight comes from Canada, which is also good news. No, it's great news for that country after SARS and mad cow. Canada could use some great news and it got it today. Vancouver, British Columbia will host the Olympics in 2010.

And we are not just the most trusted name in news, we can actually tell you tomorrow's news, tonight. A journalistic feat if ever there was one. It must be our nightly look to tomorrow morning's papers. All of that and more, in the hour ahead.

We begin with the prospect of more American troops heading to another distant land. On a day when two more American soldiers died in Iraq, the White House is suggesting that American troops may be headed for the African country of Liberia. In this case, not to wage a war, but to try and end one. Here's our Senior White House Correspondent John King.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KING (voice over): The president all but dared those trying to kill U.S. forces in Iraq to attack again. And sources tell CNN he is poised to order troops on another dangerous mission, peacekeeping in Liberia.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We are exploring all options as to how to keep the situation peace and stable.

KING: Administration sources say an official announcement could come as early as this week. They say the president and top national security aides discussed deploying 500 to 1,000 U.S. troops for a mission that also would include West African sources. These sources described the Pentagon as somewhat reluctant. It is stretched thin in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the last major deployment in Africa, in Somalia, ended in retreat 10 years ago, after 18 Americans were killed.

Just last week, Mr. Bush called on Liberian President Charles Taylor to step down. Now, he wants him to leave the country as well.

BUSH: In order for there to be peace and stability in Liberia, Charles Taylor needs to leave now.

KING: Taylor is under United Nations indictment for war crimes. The official White House line is Taylor should leave Liberia now and still face trial later, but -- SUSAN RICE, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: It sounds to me, like President Bush is opening the door to a deal in which Taylor goes into exile and escapes the jurisdiction of the U.N. special court.

KING: Mr. Bush took questions after introducing his new global AIDS coordinator. He says the attacks in Iraq are an effort to get the United States to pack up and leave before a new government is established.

BUSH: My answer is bring them on. We have the force necessary to deal with the security situation.

KING: The president once again rejected the idea that intelligence saying Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction was wrong.

BUSH: He had them. And it's just a matter of time.

KING: As a candidate for president, then-governor Bush, promised to think long and hard before sending U.S. troops overseas.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KING: But now, as the Pentagon finalizes the planning, the White House insists a troop deployment to Liberia would meet the key president's test. They say it is in the vital U.S. national security interests. And Aaron, they say it would be a limited deployment, most saying 90, most perhaps 120 days.

BROWN: At the risk of sounding dumb, what is the vital U.S. security interests there?

KING: Well, one there is the history. As you noted at the top of the show, it is a country founded by former U.S. slaves. There are historical ties. The British recently went into Sierra Leone. The French went into the Ivory Coast. Some say it is the U.S.'s turn.

And this president will make the case, on the African trip he beings in days, that when you have political chaos, instability and civil war that invites terrorists. That rebel groups looking to disrupt things look for people with guns and bombs. They make bad friends. But if you want to keep terrorists out of Africa, including Western Africa, you need to have stable democracies.

BROWN: John, thank you. We will let you get out of rain down there in Washington tonight. Thank you very much.

KING: Thank you.

BROWN: Senior White House correspondent John King.

Nobody pretends getting involved in Liberia would not be without risk, the specter of Black Hawk down, or Baghdad today, for that matter, comes up a lot. But on the streets of Monrovia, the capital, quite a few Liberians to beg to differ; they badly want an American presence. So much so that even the mere hint of it, the premature hint of it as it turned out, was reason yesterday to celebrate. Here is CNN's Jeff Koinange.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEFF KOINANGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): (AUDIO GAP) ...press briefing with a question about the U.S. involvement in negotiations for a new government in Liberia.

ARI FLEISCHER, WHITE HOUSE SPOKESMAN: President is determined to help the people of Liberia to find a path to peace. The exact steps that could be taken are still under review.

QUESTION: Sir, you aren't ruling out that U.S. troops might go to Liberia?

FLEISCHER: I am not ruling it out.

KOINANGE: What Fleischer hadn't anticipated was the reaction his words that would invoke in the streets of Monrovia.

(CROWDS CHANTING)

KOINANGE: Outside the U.S. Embassy here, scenes of hysteria as Liberians celebrated the news they thought they heard.

(on camera): The reaction in the streets in Monrovia was almost instantaneous. Thousands pouring into the streets saying, we want peace, send in the Americans.

(voice over): Some even brought with them a copy of "History of the American Nation." just to show their new-found loyalty.

KOINANGE (on camera): What makes you think they are going to bring peace, these Americans?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, we feel Americans can bring peace, because why? They are the original founders of this nation And secondly, they are the superpower of the world.

KOINANGE: The handful of Marines guarding the U.S. embassy here became the center of attention for those celebrating a possible U.S. intervention. Retired Marine Colonel Hirsch Hernandez has been training the security staff at the U.S. embassy for the past eight years and says he welcomes the deployment of troops, if it will help bring about peace.

COL. HIRSCH HERNANDEZ, U.S. MARINE CORPS. (RET.): It's been a long road for these poor people. And the 25th was the icing on the cake; 25 dead, 53 wounded, in a wanton act of savage -- of barbarity by whoever did it. These people are so traumatized, they need help. They need help from somebody.

KOINANGE: What many here fail to realize is that the statement issued by the White House was merely a consideration. And more importantly, that if any U.S. deployment was to happen it would be in a Liberia without its popular, but embattled, President Charles Taylor. They may not understand the subtleties of political comment, but these folks have been suffering for the most of the last quarter century, and rejoice at the hint of any good news.

(CROWDS CHANTING)

Jeff Koinange, CNN, Monrovia, Liberia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Next, to the Middle East and the rumble of tanks and army trucks. The difference tonight being which direction the tanks, the trucks, and the soldiers were heading. The story from CNN's Dan Lothian.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LOTHIAN (voice over): It was little more than a year ago that the violent Israeli-Palestinians conflict went through Bethlehem's Manger Square; 41 days of a violent standoff.

On Wednesday, the pathway to peace went through Bethlehem, instead of gunfire, church bells and parading Palestinians security police falling into place after Israeli troops pulled out.

HANNA NASSR, BETHLEHEM MAYOR: This is the first step, Bethlehem and Gaza first. This is the first step towards the implementation of the road map.

LOTHIAN: Israeli troops will still maintain a presence at the city's main entrance, but they will no longer enter Bethlehem to make arrests or conduct patrols. On this narrow cobblestone street packed with sidewalk vendors and small shops, Halib Khutu (ph) is skeptical, unwilling to embrace this latest attempt at peace.

(on camera): You think the army will come back?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

LOTHIAN: So there's no trust?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No trust.

LOTHIAN: Pharmacist Nabil Adili is cautiously optimistic.

NABIL ADILI, PHARMACY OWNER: I am looking to implement a real peace. Real cooperation, real good life for the two people. When this takes place, we can celebrate.

LOTHIAN: A sentiment shared by 80-year-old Aaron Schwartsmith (ph), an Israeli living in Jerusalem, dodging bullets from Bethlehem and neighboring Bajalla (ph). After months of anger and frustration, he now sees encouraging signs out his window.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): If we want things to be better it needs both sides to want things being better. LOTHIAN: Israel hopes the Palestinians Authority will be able to maintain security, preventing violence and cracking down on militants, long after the celebration in Bethlehem fades.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LOTHIAN: Despite these latest steps in the peace process, the violence in the region does continue. A few hours ago, the head of a local militant group in the West Bank was shot and killed during the exchange of gunfire with Israeli troops. His assistant was wounded.

And Wednesday night, three Israelis in the Southern Gaza were slightly wounded during a rocket attack -- Aaron.

BROWN: Anybody claiming responsibility for that attack?

LOTHIAN: No, not yet. It is still early here in the morning, and no responsibility yet for that attack, but Aaron, clearly what this points out is that while there are these small steps that are being made on this road map to peace, there is still a long way to go.

BROWN: And the next step in the process would be what? Is it clear?

LOTHIAN: Well, it is not clear yet. What Palestinians want is for additional pull out. They are hopeful that in other regions, Israeli troops will be pulling out. But from the Israeli side what they are looking for is an end to violence everywhere before they take additional steps.

BROWN: Dan, thank you very much.

Dan Lothian, who is in Jerusalem tonight.

Onto the anthrax investigation now: The one in Iraq and the one in this country as well. Today, as if things couldn't get much stranger or more fascinating, the two stories became intertwined. Here is CNN's Jamie McIntyre.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Elite units of U.S. special operations forces called special mission units have been given the primary responsibility for targeting terrorists and preventing the spread of weapons of mass destruction.

Years before, this trailer, which the CIA believes is a mobile germ warfare plant was discovered in the aftermath of the war in Iraq, many of those U.S. commandos had already seen something very much like it.

COLIN POWELL, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: The signature vehicles are gone. The tents are gone.

MCINTYRE: Drawing on the same intelligence, the CIA used to produce these artist renderings of the mobile labs presented by Secretary of State Colin Powell to the United Nations in February. The U.S. military, beginning in 2000, constructed mock-ups to train its counter-terrorism troops.

At Fort Bragg, North Carolina, U.S. Commandos, including the secretive Delta Force, practiced on a highly detailed mock lab modeled on the trailer's design, sources say.

They learned not only how to identify its distinctive and dangerous hardware, but more importantly, how to safely neutralize it. In an interesting twist, it turns out, one of the outside experts who helped make the training realistic was Dr. Stephen Hatfill, later identified by the Justice Department as a person of interest in the investigation into letters containing anthrax that killed five people in the United States in late 2001.

Hatfill worked for a company called Science Applications International Corporation, which was under contract to the Pentagon and the CIA.

(on camera): Pentagon officials stress while the mock labs appeared very authentic and used some real equipment they were nonfunctional and never produced any actual bio agent. And Hatfill has never been charged with anything by the U.S. government nor has any evidence been produced to link him, or the mock labs, with the anthrax killings.

Jamie McIntyre, CNN, the Pentagon.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: And on NEWSNIGHT tonight, the power of Wal-Mart and with what it means when the retailer institutes a policy of nondiscrimination against gays. And later in the hour, the face of American military and what the president wants to do to attract new recruits. From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: When you think about the institutions that shape our lives, our culture, you might think first to the Congress or the Supreme Court. But another hugely powerful force can be found down Highway 101 or Route 5, or anyplace where there is a Wal-Mart.

It is not stretch to say that, as Wal-Mart goes, so goes America. What it chooses to sell, who it hires, how it treats them; these are decisions that affect millions and set an example for other companies as well. That's why Wal-Mart's decision today, adding gay employees to its anti-discrimination policy, is a very big deal. Here's CNN's Chris Huntington.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRIS HUNTINGTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The biggest company on the planet now says it will not discriminate against gay and lesbian workers and Wednesday it put that in writing. Wal-Mart sent a memo to the managers of its 3500 U.S. stores with amended employment policy pledging support for "all qualified persons regardless of race, color, religion, gender, national origin, age, disability or status as a veteran, or sexual orientation."

Folks at a New Jersey Wal-Mart took the new rules in stride.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I feel that everyone needs to make a living. And I feel that God don't discriminate against people.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm in the middle. It doesn't matter. When I need something from here, I'll get it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We actually work here. So we don't have no problem with anybody.

HUNTINGTON: A Wal-Mart spokesperson told CNN the new policy formalizes in writing what our company expectations have always been regarding the respect for all people... It is in response to concerns raised by gay employees at Wal-Mart, shareholder activism did not play a role in this case."

A coalition of gay and lesbian shareholder activists had worked on the policy directly with Wal-Mart for several years, but they say getting credit is not nearly as important as setting the right example.

SHELLEY ALPERN, SHAREHOLDER RIGHTS ACTIVIST: When a large company, like Wal-Mart, makes a policy change like this, it tends to have a ripple effect throughout the industry.

KIM MILLS, HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH: We are talking about a country that represents in middle America. Its based in middle America, its clientele is middle America. And now it is adopting a policy which says this is just a basic America value.

HUNTINGTON: With Wal-Mart's shift in policy, there's only one company remaining in the top five -- in fact the top 70 -- of Fortune 500 without an explicit gay and lesbian anti-discrimination policy. ExxonMobil has said it does not need to change because its employment policy is already nondiscriminatory. Those who oppose explicit protection for homosexuals say such policies are discriminatory.

PETE SPRING, FAMILY RESEARCH COUNCIL: Adding sexual orientation to such a policy implies that disapproval of homosexuality is just as offensive as racism or sexism. And that's a message that I don't like it see Wal-Mart sending.

HUNTINGTON (on camera): On the related issue of whether to provide benefits for the live-in partners of its employees, Wal-Mart also sides with the majority of Fortune 500 companies, it does not provide those benefits and has no plans to do so anytime soon.

Chris Huntington, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE) BROWN: This is second time in as many months that Wal-Mart has walked through the cultural minefield. In May, you may recall, it pulled racy men's magazines like "Maxim" off of its shelves because it said lots of customer complaints. So what drives these decisions? Has to do with principle or just the principle of good business?

For more on how companies make these decisions and the impact of their choices. We are joined by Molly Epstein; she is a professor at the Business School at Emory University. She specializes in corporate culture.

Nice to have you with us.

When you look at the list of companies that already had a policy of nondiscrimination, it's not so much that Wal-Mart was ahead of the curve, it's that Wal-Mart caught up with the curve, isn't it?

EPSTEIN: Yes, they did. They were not explicitly stating that they supported anti-discrimination for gays and lesbians, but they have now stated it explicitly. And I think that it sends a powerful message both internally and externally.

BROWN: Externally, to whom?

EPSTEIN: To customers, and to all the stakeholders, to shareholders in particular.

BROWN: Is there much of a risk for Wal-Mart in doing this?

EPSTEIN: There is some risk. And certainly some very conservative organizations have already spoken out against this decision. However, in the long run, I believe that it will be a very -- a very powerful addition to their bottom line, that it will be good for business, and any boycotts they might experience or negative press will quickly be overcome.

BROWN: It's an interesting balance. Are there obviously lots of people, I presume, who are uncomfortable with this sort of thing. But there are also lots of people who are gays and lesbians and the parents and friends of gays and lesbians, who may now shop at Wal-Mart who might have not otherwise done so?

EPSTEIN: Absolutely. Wal-Mart has established itself as a staunch supporter of family values. You mentioned the magazines. They also refused to sell CDs with explicit lyrics or video games that are overly violent. So they have kind of put a stake in the ground saying they are a family friendly company, and now what they have done is expand their definition of family friendly.

BROWN: Is it the next logical step, then, to extend benefits to domestic partners?

EPSTEIN: It is a next logical step, but it is a very different issue. So I would not expect it to happen anytime soon. But it is a next logical step.

BROWN: Why is it such a -- why is it a more complicated issue than nondiscrimination?

EPSTEIN: Because it's about the bottom line. It's about cost savings. And what they have -- what Wal-Mart has done now is made a very clear statement to shareholders and to customers and to employees about their inclusion. It hasn't cost them anything except the short- term affects they may receive through any protests or boycotts.

But once they start extending benefits, it starts costing money. Now, the biggest decision is, does this help us retain and attract top employees? And I imagine they thought in this through very closely before they decided that, yes, it would.

BROWN: That they have clearly every big company has gay and lesbian employees, and this will make it easier for them to keep those good employees if they so choose?

EPSTEIN: Correct. Absolutely.

BROWN: Professor, thank you for joining us. Good to have you on the program.

EPSTEIN: Thank you.

BROWN: Thank you very much.

EPSTEIN: Thank you.

BROWN: Still ahead on the program, celebration in Canada. Vancouver, British Columbia wins the right to host the 2010 or 20-10? Not sure how you want to say that. But anyways, the Winter Olympics. And we'll look at how that story was reported north of the border, after a break. Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: The last time Canada made Olympic news, it was pretty much apoplectic over the judging in the figure skating competition. This is a country that takes its sport quite seriously. Eventually its skaters receive its gold medals and today the country picked up gold as well. Vancouver out there in the Pacific Northwest won the 2010 Winter Games. Big deal? You betcha! Here is how it played on Canada's Global Television Network.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The International Olympic Committee has the honor of announcing that 21st Olympic Winter Games in 2010 are awarded to the city of Vancouver.

(CHEERS)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That was 8:45 this morning. The dramatic culmination of years of work and tonight we will take a long look at the work ahead, the construction, the benefits, the long road, literally and figuratively, to the 2010 Winter Olympics. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I told the prime minister, actually, that I'm very confident. Not because I didn't think that Korea or Austria deserved to win. I felt confident that we were going to win because I felt that Canada was deserving.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now that we have won the Games, is there federal money coming for the transit lines through Richmond?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why do you take these things to talk about? We won the Games. Everything will be well-done. Don't worry. They were confident enough that the Game for us, and we won. Can you have a good story once in awhile? Tell them that we won, OK?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They pulled it off. And all the sweeter because the bids from Austria and Korea were so good. Canada's coming home with the gold.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As the wait continued, the anticipation and anxiety levels soared. Would it be Pyongyang or Vancouver? GM Place (ph) was a sea of thousands of people holding one huge collective breath. Nervously waiting for the magic word.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Awarded to the city of -- Vancouver!

(CHEERS)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When the announcement came out I have no shame in saying I had tears in my eyes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Vancouver will make sure that all Canadians are proud of the city because we're going to put on a world-class event to make the whole country look good.

DANIEL IGALI, CANADIAN OLYMPIC ATHLETE: It's not just about hosting the world for two weeks. It's not a big party. This is about showing the world that we can do something to bring the world together, even if it's just for two weeks. And I'm just excited about that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): And so was everyone else at this celebration. A moment in history with many more to follow.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (singing): It's a new world, it's a new start...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): The Vancouver bid team has pulled out all the stops. Our own Brian Adams highlights the presentation shown IOC delegates in Prague hours earlier. In Whistler (ph), they see the slick video showcasing our youth as the anticipation builds.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My favorite Olympic dream is to be in Olympic speedskating.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's to be a pairs figure skater.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's to be in the giant slalom.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's to be a ski jumper.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just before 8:00 a.m., we learned Austria is out in the first vote. It's now Canada and Korea in the runoff. The young athletes have their fingers crossed. Even foreign journalists here sense a Canadian win.

BILL TRIPLETT, U.S. JOURNALIST: You guys wear your maple leaf on your sleeves, and I love it, because you are just so out there with your emotions about wanting this so much.

LEANNE YOUNES, AUSTRALIAN JOURNALIST: You've got the facilities and the absolute -- the spirit to carry it off really, really well.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And The 21st Olympic Winter Games in 2010 are awarded to the city of Vancouver.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Global TV, that's pretty cool. They're pretty happy out there. Vancouver's a great city, second-prettiest city in the Pacific Northwest. Lived in Seattle. Three provinces east. Boy, I like the way this works together.

Canada is celebrating another decision, the World Health Organization taking Toronto off of list of cities affected by SARS. Last new case of SARS reported on the 12th of June. As of Monday, 22 people in Toronto still battling the disease.

Senator Hillary Clinton turned up in Amsterdam today selling her book "Living History." In Dutch, that's "Mijn Verhaal." The book went on sale in the Netherlands about a month ago. Since then, the Dutch have bought about 35,000 copies.

And in Madrid, the continuing adventures of Beckham, David Beckham. Yesterday it was his globally televised turn-and-cough. Tonight, we bring you the wardrobe. The best-known footballer in the world getting number 23. Pretty well-known number, don't you think? It was once worn by Michael Jordan. Still, not in soccer.

Still to come on NEWSNIGHT, who's defending America? Who's in the military now? And who is it the Pentagon wants to enlist?

A break first. This is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BROWN: President Bush spoke about Iraq yesterday, you may recall it, at an event at the White House that was actually something else. It was to mark the end of the draft, exactly 30 years ago. He was surrounded by 30 people who chose to reenlist, men and women, black and white, all colors in between, a group of young people who, as the saying goes, look like America.

But the larger truth is that the all-volunteer force is not all that representative of the country that the troops are fighting and, yes, dying for, something the Defense Department is now trying to change.

Here's NEWSNIGHT's Beth Nissen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BETH NISSEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They serve in the uniform and the name of the United States, but the U.S. armed forces do not represent all segments of the American population. Relatively few are from America's great middle class, even fewer are from the privileged elite.

Author Chris Bauman saw that when he served in the Army.

CHRIS BAUMAN, U.S. ARMY, 1991-1995, AUTHOR, "THE ICE BENEATH YOU": We have a largely blue-collar, lower blue-collar, hard-steel blue-collar, military fighting for a very affluent society.

NISSEN: Statements like that put the Department of Defense on the defensive.

DAVID CHU, DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE, UNDERSECRETARY FOR PERSONNEL: This is a volunteer force. Given it's a volunteer force, we'll never perfectly mirror the country at large.

NISSEN: Yet the Defense Department is launching a new $1.7 million national ad campaign this summer aimed at drawing a broader, more reflective group of recruits.

The campaign's top targets? More middle-class Americans who did well in high school and are aiming for college. The U.S. armed forces are already better educated than the general population. Most all have high school diplomas, higher reading scores.

CHU: We found those who have completed high school successfully are much more likely to complete military service successfully.

NISSEN: To attract more of those headed for college but stymied by the cost, the military is trying to get the word out on its expanded professional programs, education benefits.

CHU: We subsidize going to college, we give credit for many of our courses.

NISSEN: The new campaign is not just aimed at wallets but at hearts and minds. The Defense Department wants a broader population to see the military the way many African-Americans do, as a source of reliable pay, good family benefits, and equal opportunity.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are a merit-based promotion system, and I think African-American citizens have recognized that.

NISSEN: So many that African-Americans account for a disproportionate number, 22 percent, of enlisted personnel. They're only 11 percent of the same age civilian population. They make up even higher number of women in the military. In the army, half of all enlisted women are black.

Military surveys show that many blacks enlist after hearing the positive military experiences of friends and neighbors.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) you talk to young people, how much it is that word of mouth are governs and informs their choices.

NISSEN: So the new ads are designed to foster better word of mouth on the military among Hispanics, the largest minority in the U.S., but notably underrepresented in the U.S. armed forces.

Other ads are pitched to potential enlistees in the northeastern U.S., a longtime dry area for recruiters. The largest percentage of America's troops, more than 40 percent, comes from Southern states, Texas through Florida.

BAUMAN: You know, I'm from New Jersey, and that was rare enough that there were times when my nickname was New Jersey. You could never give someone in the Army the nickname of Alabama or West Virginia, because there were so many of them.

NISSEN: The overall goal, make the already powerful, already professional U.S. armed forces even more reflective of the diverse and democratic society they represent around the world.

Beth Nissen, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Before we go to break, few more items from around the country today. First stop, northern Virginia, and the trial of accused sniper Lee Malvo. Today, a judge ordered a change of venue from Fairfax County, which is a suburb of Washington, D.C., to a town on the North Carolina border.

Lawyers for Mr. Malvo argued that since virtually everyone in the Washington area was a potential victim of the sniper, picking an unbiased jury would be impossible. The judge agreed.

A truck filled with fireworks blew up today at a park in the city of Benita Springs on the west coast of Florida. Four people died. It happened as the fireworks were unloaded. No word yet on why it happened.

And the musician who took the flute and made it swing has died. Herbie Mann lost a long battle with prostate cancer last night at his home in Santa Fe. He was 73. A champion of world music before there was a name for it, Herbie Mann was known as the Pied Piper of jazz. A giant, a visionary, and, above all, a man whose love for music showed in every note he played.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT tonight, the Ten Commandments, and why the battle of whether they belong in a courthouse could make the Supreme Court.

Take a break first. This is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Few years back, Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore wrote an impassioned manifesto called, "Putting God Back in the Public Square." He meant that figuratively. Or did he?

Justice Moore is the guy who literally put God back in the public square, his idea of God, at least, by putting a huge monument bearing the Ten Commandments in the very public rotunda of the Alabama State Judicial Building. Federal appeals court told him yesterday in no uncertain terms he was way out of line and needs to get rid of it.

But like the two-and-a-half-ton monument, Justice Moore is going to be hard to budge.

Here's CNN's Brian Cabell.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRIAN CABELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It is 5,300 pounds of granite and controversy. The monument, occupying a prominent place in the Alabama Supreme Court rotunda, is engraved with the Ten Commandments.

Chief Justice Roy Moore had it placed here two years ago and calls the federal appeals court decision to remove it a violation of the state and federal constitutions.

CHIEF JUSTICE ROY MOORE, ALABAMA SUPREME COURT: When the courts of our land deny the existence of God and pretend to give us rights, they deny the very moral foundation of our law and our government.

CABELL: Moore says he has not yet decided whether or how to appeal the decision.

He rose to prominence eight years ago when he posted the Ten Commandments on his courtroom wall in northern Alabama. In spite of, or because of the controversy, he was elected chief justice in 2000.

Critics say his installation of the monument a year later, in the middle of the night, simply went too far.

STEPHEN GLASSROTH, PLAINTIFF: He's not the chief minister, he is the chief justice. It's a secular role. We don't have a chief minister, and we don't have any ayatollahs.

CABELL: The 11th circuit court judges ruled the monument was an unconstitutional promotion of religion.

Alabama citizens are split over Justice Moore's crusade.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think he's doing it for purely political reasons.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's not the law of the land.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I agree with his principle of defending the Ten Commandments, and I don't care where they put them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, where do we stop? Do we take the "In God We Trust" off of the dollar bills?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABELL: And that's the dilemma, trying to determine what is and what is not constitutional. The word "God," for example, you'll find in public places, you'll find on public documents. But the problem with this monument here is that it is almost a centerpiece. That's how it was described.

Another concern for some of the judges is the motivation behind it. There is a belief, perhaps, that Justice Moore was proselytizing when he installed this monument, Aaron.

BROWN: One or two things. You said he is un -- we'll talk to his lawyer in a second. I thought yesterday they were absolutely certain they were going to appeal. Have they changed their minds? Are they pulling back from that?

CABELL: In the past, they have said they would go to the Supreme Court, the U.S. Supreme Court. Today they said they needed more time to plot their strategy. They wouldn't say absolutely they were going to the Supreme Court. They needed more time to take a look at the document and figure out what to do next.

BROWN: And part of the argument that the -- and again, we'll talk to his lawyer about this, but part of the argument that the judge made before the appeals court is essentially that as the chief justice of the Alabama Supreme Court, he's not -- he can decide what court orders to follow, what court orders he wants to ignore, including, I guess, this one.

Is there any sense he will ignore the court's order?

CABELL: He was asked about -- or his attorney was asked about civil disobedience today, and they kind of finessed that question. So it's uncertain. He has simply issued a statement today about three or four minutes in length, and then he had his attorney answer questions. And frankly, his attorney didn't answer too many questions very directly.

So frankly, at this point, we don't know precisely what Justice Moore is going to do next.

BROWN: Brian, thank you very much. That does present us with a bit of a challenge, since his attorney is next up on the docket.

Herb Titus joins us now from Virginia Beach, Virginia.

It's nice to have you on the program.

Let's deal with the questions that have already been put on the table. The appeals court seemed quite offended at the notion that this judge or any judge or any public official can ignore an order of the court. Does Judge Moore really believe that he is not bound by the law of the land?

HERB TITUS, ATTORNEY FOR JUSTICE ROY MOORE: Well, as I explained to the court of appeals at the oral argument, that goes to the question of remedy. It goes to the question of whether a federal judge can enjoin a state court justice, the highest state court justice of the state of Alabama, and require that justice to remove a monument, when the justice, the state justice, Chief Justice Moore, believes that he's placed it there because of his oath of office.

He swears an oath to uphold the Constitution as he understands it to be, not as some federal judge understands it to be. There's an assumption in this country that whenever a judge makes a decision and issues an order, then that is law. It may or may not be law. It may be contrary to law.

And so what we argued in that particular case is that the court certainly could issue a declaratory judgment, but if it goes beyond that and issues an injunction, without that particular order conforming to the Constitution, then you have a conflict between the oaths of office of the state judicial officer...

BROWN: (UNINTELLIGIBLE), what, what's...

TITUS: ... and the federal court.

BROWN: Well, I don't want to spend all our time on this, but I do want you to respond to this, because what the appeals court compared this to, as you know, is Governor Wallace standing at the schoolhouse door, other Southern governors who did the same thing. I assume the judge doesn't want to be put in that group.

TITUS: Well, he isn't in that group.

BROWN: Well, the court put him there yesterday.

TITUS: He's -- well, if you look at the opinion, you'll see that was a unanimous opinion in Brown versus the Board of Education, which said that race can never be a criteria in the placement of students in a public school.

Now, this court admitted that in the establishment clause cases, there's no clear rule of law. It's all a matter of fact, it's all a matter of case-by-case adjudication. So how do you know what the law is in this particular arena? With regard to the desegregation of schools, there was a uniform rule...

BROWN: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...

TITUS: ... across the board, unanimously voted by...

BROWN: OK.

TITUS: ... the United States Supreme Court. That has not happened in this particular matter.

BROWN: Let's see if we can get a couple or three things done here before we run out of time. To your knowledge, has any federal court or appeals court, federal appeals court, in the country ever allowed the Ten Commandments to be posted in a courtroom or in the court building, a building like the one in Alabama? Has that ever happened?

TITUS: Well, there are certainly Ten Commandment displays in courtrooms all over the country. As a matter of fact, if you go to the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania, you will see a depiction of Moses and the Ten Commandments right behind the chief justice of the state...

BROWN: Then...

TITUS: ... of Pennsylvania.

BROWN: ... what made this different?

TITUS: Well, you'll have to read the opinion. What these people seem to think is that if you're a government official, you can't acknowledge God. It's against the Constitution of the United States to acknowledge God.

Now, we're going to be celebrating the Fourth of July, and the charter of the nation certainly acknowledges God. It acknowledges God as creator. It acknowledges God's law. It acknowledges God as the supreme judge of the world. It acknowledges God as the divine providence.

It's amazing that courts today would interpret the Constitution to basically say that the Declaration of Independence is an unconstitutional document.

BROWN: Well, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not precisely sure that's exactly what courts have done. Let's try for a simpler one. Are you going to appeal this or not?

TITUS: We're certainly discussing that matter. The reason for the decision today was, we need to determine whether we're going to seek a rehearing either by this panel or by all the judges of the 11th circuit, or we're going to proceed directly to the United States Supreme Court. There's no question that we're going to proceed with this case.

BROWN: So it's just a question of what venue you seek and when you seek it.

TITUS: That's correct.

BROWN: OK. Mr. Titus, thanks for joining us tonight. It's an interesting case. We appreciate your time. Thank you.

TITUS: Thank you.

BROWN: Herb Titus is handling, or is one of the lawyers handling the case in Alabama for the chief justice in Alabama.

Take a break, and then, morning papers. Be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Okey-dokey. Time for morning papers around the country. It's true, I'm an easy laugh, that's the truth.

Look, this is the "Vancouver Sun," OK? This is today's "Vancouver Sun." This is the lone exception we make. If your city wins the Olympics, we will run today's paper in this segment. "Yes!" is the headline. "The Games Are Ours!" It's a wonderful picture. Pretty fair newspaper too, the "Vancouver Sun" out in Vancouver, British Columbia.

By the way, you know, yesterday I said there was only one Cincinnati. I was wrong. There's a Cincinnati in Arkansas, and a Cincinnati in Iowa. Aren't I embarrassed?

The "San Francisco Chronicle" -- there's only one San Francisco -- I like this story a lot. "Recall Leader," this is Congressman Dan Issa, I think I'm pronouncing that right, "Twice Held for Illegal Weapons." There was a story about 10 days ago that he'd been busted on a, like, a car theft thing at one point or another.

Anyway, he's got a kind of an interesting past. He's running the recall with mostly his own money, or a lot of his own money, against Gray Davis.

So that's a front-page story, as is "Crop Circles in Solano" -- I hope I pronounced that right -- "Solano County, California." You know, you see what you see here. Some people see spiritual things, other people see a guy with a really weird lawnmower, I guess. Anyway, that made the front page of the "Chronicle" as well.

"The Moscow Times," haven't done this in a while, but I need to inform you that the "Head of Yukos' Parent Company" has been "Arrested." And it's about time, isn't it? I have no idea.

"The Detroit News," what caught my eye here is, there are four stories on the front page, right? "Voters May Decide Affirmative Action," that's the big story. They're teasing five stories on the front page. Up here, "Fedorov Will Not Return." That's a hockey story. There's one of those every day. Four others down there. How much time?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thirty-eight.

BROWN: Thirty-eight. Oh, my. Let's time this right to the second, David.

The "Detroit Free Press," "U.S. Arrests Ex-Nazi Guard." He served a concentration camp in Austria, "Deportation Sought." These are -- these come up every now and then. That's a pretty fair story.

Twenty seconds?

The weather in Chicago tomorrow, according to the "Chicago Sun- Times," "Flame... " What the heck shot was that, guys? Come on! "Flamethrower." That's -- there it is. Thank you very much. You have this problem at home too.

Have a great Fourth of July. I'll see you again on Monday. We're back tomorrow. Good night for all of us.

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Troops Pull Out of Bethlehem; Battle Over Ten Commandments in Alabama>