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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown

Hurricane Claudette Hits Texas; Deployment for U.S. Troops in Iraq Extended; Troubling Developments in North Korea

Aired July 15, 2003 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again, everyone.
Tonight's an unusual kind of lead story for us. It doesn't involve presidential politics, debates about war or grave developments in world diplomacy though we have some of that too tonight.

Our lead is the kind of story where it's not about who said what or right and wrong or the implications of this or that. It's far simpler. It's about getting gout of the way, out of the way of a force that no one has the power to change or control.

Today, that force has a name, Claudette, and the storm is where we begin the whip. John Zarrella on the Texas Gulf Coast tonight, John a headline please.

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, there's a saying in Texas, "Don't Mess with Texas." Well, Hurricane Claudette did and the storm left behind a mess for Texans to clean up -- Aaron.

BROWN: John, thank you, back with you at the top.

On to the cost of the war in Iraq from the perspective of the families left behind. Jennifer Coggiola is in Hinesville, Georgia, not far from Fort Stewart, Jennifer a headline.

JENNIFER COGGIOLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I am actually in a Wal- Mart parking lot just outside of Fort Stewart where a lot of these wives today were told that their husbands aren't coming home as soon as they originally had hoped -- Aaron.

BROWN: We'll get the details, Jennifer, thank you.

Troubling developments involving North Korea today -- our Senior Pentagon Correspondent Jamie McIntyre working the story so, Jamie, a headline from you.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, you know in Iraq, the United States alleged that Saddam Hussein was lying about destroying his weapons of mass destruction. With North Korea, it's just the opposite. The U.S. is wondering if Kim Jong-Il is lying about having developed them. With North Korea's latest claim to have reprocessed plutonium, one former secretary of defense is warning that the U.S. appears on a path to war -- Aaron.

BROWN: Jamie, thank you, back to you and the rest shortly. Also coming up on NEWSNIGHT tonight, a full court press by Democrats today attacking the White House over Iraq, we'll look at the tactical risk they may run in going after a still popular president a very long ways from Election Day.

And, four of the strangest words in American politics today, Jerry Springer for Senate. We'll talk with the king of trashy talk about whether he'll actually run from the state of Ohio.

And, of course, neither rain nor gale force winds nor tropical storms will keep us from bringing you tomorrow morning's paper. It's our regular feature and it has a bonus tonight to say the least, all of that and more coming up in the hour ahead.

We begin tonight on the Gulf Coast, which for a while today moved several hundred yards further inland than normal. Hurricane Claudette was a mild storm by the numbers but a mild hurricane is sort of like a small H-bomb. They all do their share of damage and there is plenty where Claudette came ashore tonight.

So, once again, we turn to CNN's John Zarrella, John good evening.

ZARRELLA: Aaron, some 15 counties in Texas have been affected by Hurricane Claudette. Calhoun County where we are and where the eye of the storm passed over was affected perhaps more than any other county.

The Texas Department of Public Safety crews are out tonight beginning to assess the damage and this is some of what they'll find. You can see behind me the top of an old 1910 building built in 1910, historical site here, was knocked down. Inside you can see that the damage is extensive inside as well.

It's sporadic in the county but you can find this kind of damage everywhere. Claudette flooded homes, tore off roofs, knocked out power, and for the most part did more damage than most Texans expected.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ZARRELLA (voice-over): Claudette was no lady when she came calling on Texas. The storm made landfall along the central coastline near the city of Port Lavaca as residents raced to protect their property.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'd just as soon that it turn around and went back in the other direction.

ZARRELLA: After gathering strength in the Gulf, Claudette charged ashore with winds sustained at 80 miles an hour. Gusts reached 104. At is height the storm's winds tore off this second story porch. The porch landed behind the house in the pool.

Razor sharp pieces of aluminum siding flew through the air. Power was out throughout the city. The pecan tree in Bill Sterling's front yard came down just missing the house. BILL STERLING, PORT LAVACA RESIDENT: It's been there since the early 1900s. It finally blew over it looks like. Sure hate to see it go too. This house has been in the family for years.

ZARRELLA: The eye of the storm passed directly over Port Lavaca as if Claudette wanted to see the damage for herself.

(on camera): As the center of Claudette was making landfall, the winds on the north side of the storm where we are was driving the water up and over the sea wall. This is called the storm surge and, as dramatic as these pictures may seem, this is just from a category one hurricane.

(voice-over): Further north storm surge flooding was worse. In Surf Side south of Galveston roads and homes were under water. At Sabine (ph) Pass on the Texas-Louisiana border, the Coast Guard in a dramatic rescue plucked two fishermen from the Gulf after their shrimp boat, named Water World, went down.

Claudette left her mark all along the Texas coastline and overturned a Winnebago, collapsed walls, trees uprooted. On the meteorological scale of hurricanes Claudette is minor but it's a major headache for the Texans who have to clean up the mess.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZARRELLA: And sadly enough, Aaron, we have to report that we are learning that there has been at least one fatality, a 32-year-old woman killed in Victoria, Texas, from a falling tree limb. Victoria, Texas is just inland from here, probably about 20 to 30 miles from where we are at Port Lavaca -- Aaron.

BROWN: John, thank you, John Zarrella in Texas tonight, nice day's work, John thank you.

To Iraq next, today the Pentagon said it can offer no firm timeline for the return of thousands of American troops in Iraq, officials today expressing the hope, nothing more, that members of the 3rd Infantry Division will be home by September.

It's hard to forget the refrain we heard so many times as we watched them make their way north, first to Baghdad then to home it was said. That was the hope. It still is tonight but it's hope now with frustration.

Here is CNN's Nic Robertson.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): West of Baghdad, troops of the 3rd Infantry Division sit, many contemplating word their much anticipated leave has been pushed back yet again.

SGT. ERIC WRIGHT, U.S. ARMY, 3RD INFANTRY DIVISION: I felt probably a level of hopelessness that I have never felt before in my life. I felt like it was like the knockout punch I guess.

ROBERTSON: Barely three months ago, Wright and the rest of his division were doing what most soldiers dream of, after six months of sitting in Kuwait blazing a trail to Baghdad. Since victory, fortunes changes, keeping the peace in central Iraq instead of going home, the dangerous Sunni Triangle becoming an all but permanent base. Attacks increased as the temperature rose.

SGT. THOMAS SLAGO, U.S. ARMY 3RD INFANTRY DIVISION: Finally, you know, we get these rumors, you know, we're going to hit on this day and head back to Kuwait. We all get excited.

ROBERTSON: But they're not going anywhere. Commanders talk of high morale but away from cameras heads are hung low.

WRIGHT: Some of them hope that they will get wounded so that they can go home. (Unintelligible) hey, shoot me. I want to go home.

ROBERTSON: There is still support for the mission but maybe not as much in the heart as some would hope.

GEN. BUFORD BLOUNT, COMMANDER, U.S. ARMY 3RD INFANTRY DIVISION: I'm trying to get them out of here, redeployed, but they got to stay focused on the mission.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON: And without focus the fear for commanders is their troops may be more prone to attack. For now, at least, judging by an attack Monday night when the 3rd Infantry Division killed all their assailants their guard is up. Troops worry how long can they keep it that way.

Nic Robertson, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: And for every close call in the Sunni Triangle, the heartache grows a world away. You can say Army families are used to it but Stars and Stripes and khaki can only stretch so far and a child can only wait so long, CNN's Jennifer Coggiola now with the families waiting at Fort Stewart, Georgia.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DYLAN MORRIS, SON: My dad wanted to come back in August but they keep changing their minds.

COGGIOLA (voice-over): But their dad, Private First Class James Morris who's been in Iraq since January won't be here.

MORRIS: We wanted him to come on my birthday but the president changed his mind again. He keeps on doing that.

COGGIOLA: This weekend families of the nearly 10,000 soldiers from Fort Stewart in Georgia were told that homecoming will be delayed yet again.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I felt I was safe in telling my kids that their daddy was coming home and now from what the kids' perspective is, is that they've been lied to. I feel whatever my husband is doing over there that it can be done by any number of highly trained American Army forces.

I mean the Marines are bringing theirs home. The Air Force is bringing theirs home and the Navy is bringing theirs home. Just for some reason 3rd ID is not being rotated out like the other ones.

COGGIOLA: For Jenna (ph) who's just days away from having the couple's second child, keeping her husband, Specialist Kenny Hamilton's morale strong is sometimes the hardest part of it all.

JENNA HAMILTON, WIFE: If it would work to get him out of Baghdad, he'd shoot himself in the foot in a heartbeat. Everybody is acting the same way. He said a lot of the soldiers are calling wives and just begging them to get them out of Baghdad, you know.

COGGIOLA: For Cari, who's holding out little hope her husband, Private First Class Keegan Hatat (ph) will be home soon, she says it's hard to find the words to encourage him.

CARI HATTAT, WIFE: There's no way to keep his morale up. No matter what I say all he keeps saying is get me home. Get me home.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COGGIOLA: And the wives have been told that unless something goes wrong, the 3rd Infantry will be home in 60 to 120 days but, for now, these families just wait, sending new postcards and packages once again and hoping that this homecoming date doesn't change -- Aaron.

BROWN: Jennifer, thank you very much from Georgia tonight.

Next, another look at the story, this time a letter home, it comes from Baghdad and was written by Specialist Michelle Haas. She's a combat medic with the 26 Infantry Battalion, 1st Armored Division.

She spends her time patrolling the streets of Baghdad looking for the bad guys. The soldiers call them the Ali Babbas. Her letter home goes out to her family in Michigan's Upper Peninsula.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SPC. MICHELLE HAAS, U.S. ARMY: Dear Mom and Dad and family: Hey, how are you? I'm doing OK. It's been another hot day in Iraq. Sweat it burns the eyes. It's always hot in Iraq. Today, I went on two patrols. The first one we were chasing about seven Ali Babbas but we did not catch them in time.

I mean I kind of get a little bit nervous but with the team or the platoon I'm working with I know I feel pretty comfortable with. With all the stuff that we wear it makes a person feel really out of shape but on the flipside it gets you in better shape. I thought we had Ali Babbas but it ended up being a family dispute.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where does he live? Where does he live?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's your brother?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My brother.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're (unintelligible)?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't give a -- who's got the keys to get in the house?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who has the keys?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The keys for the house.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's my property. I'm the boss.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My wife.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where's your wife?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My uncle.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's Ali Babba?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ali Babba, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no. No, no.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's go. Victor, move your team. Brooks move your team. Let's go. Come up here for some bull like that. You're going to piss me off.

HAAS: Since I got back I was hanging out with the guys, watching movies, and eating dinner, yummy, mac and cheese. I like being in Iraq. It's rather exciting. I like hanging and being able to help the locals and playing with the kids.

HAAS (on camera): My husband is also in the Army. Actually, he's probably like 15, 20 minutes away from me but I don't get to see him that much.

(voice-over): I hope to see my husband soon. I miss him dearly like I miss you all. I'm worried about his health but I shall let you go for now. I'm getting sleepy. I love you. Love, Michelle.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: The view from Iraq tonight. Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, sorting out the intelligence on nuclear capability but this time it's North Korea and its threat to start making bombs.

And later, from politician to talk show host, now Jerry Springer perhaps wants to run for the Senate. We'll talk to him tonight and much more as NEWSNIGHT continues from New York.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: The question of what to do about North Korea is getting tricky again and the North Koreans have once again made a big show of crossing a red line. They now say they are one step closer to making a nuclear weapon or perhaps more nuclear weapons.

There is some suspicion they already have two but nobody really knows for sure and that's part of the problem the uncertainty. The other is what to do regardless. The Bush administration seems content to wait things out, something that has prompted a former defense secretary in the Clinton administration to call a recipe for stumbling into war.

Here's our Senior Pentagon Correspondent Jamie McIntyre.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE (voice-over): North Korea has told the U.S. it has completed reprocessing some 8,000 spent fuel rods from its nuclear reactor at Yongbyon and now has enough plutonium to make a half dozen nuclear bombs. If that's a threat, the U.S. is dismissing it.

RICHARD BOUCHER, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: We will not submit to blackmail. We will not offer any incentives or inducements for North Korea to stop something they never should have started.

MCINTYRE: But in an interview with "The Washington Post," former Defense Secretary William Perry, a recognized Korea expert delivers an ominous warning. "Time is running out" he tells the paper. "I have thought for some months that if the North Koreans move toward processing, then we are on a path toward war."

REP. JANE HARMAN (D-CA), INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: When former Secretary of Defense Bill Perry, a guy who doesn't hold press interviews easily says that he thinks we're drifting toward war I pay attention.

MCINTYRE: The White House insists there is still plenty of time for diplomacy and economic pressure to force North Korea to abandon its nuclear ambitions.

SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE SPOKESMAN: Obviously, you never take any options off the table but we seek a diplomatic solution.

MCINTYRE: One big uncertainty is whether North Korea's Kim Jong- Il is simply bluffing hoping to intimidate the U.S. into appeasement by simply claiming to be a nuclear power. U.S. intelligence concludes North Korea has reprocessed plutonium but is uncertain how far its nuclear program has progressed and the fact that the pre-war intelligence on Iraq is now under question has some members of Congress wary.

HARMAN: Our intelligence that tells us whether the North Koreans are bluffing has to be accurate, timely, and unbiased.

MCINTYRE: Former Defense Secretary Perry criticized the Bush administration for refusing bilateral negotiations with the North. "I think we're losing control" he told "The Post." "I'm damned if I can figure out what the policy is."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE: The Bush administration is hoping to squeeze Pyongyang by going after its only source of hard cash. Sources say the U.S. is poised now, along with ten other countries, to stop North Korean shipments at sea of arms, drugs, and other contraband, claiming that it is a direct threat to U.S. national security -- Aaron.

BROWN: Jamie, on to the policy here. The United States, the Bush administration says it wants to avoid bilateral talks; that is, talks with the North Koreans directly that it wants a broader negotiation or conference or whatever the right word is. Are we anywhere in that? Is there anything being proposed? Is anybody making any noise that there ought to be such a meeting?

MCINTYRE: Well, the North Koreans are still asking for it. According to our producer at the State Department who checked with her sources again today, the latest message delivered to North Korea through China is absolutely no one-on-one just North Korea-U.S. meeting that they'll only meet on a regional basis, either with China or with other partners in the region.

And, the U.S. is sticking to that. They claim that any concessions they make would amount to giving in to North Korean blackmail and they're sticking by that position. They believe they can pressure North Korea, unlike Iraq, with economic means because North Korea is not sitting on a sea of oil that it can use to generate revenues and thumb its nose at the United States.

BROWN: It's not sitting on a sea of much of anything. It's very hard pressed. Are the Chinese -- have the Chinese been considered by the administration helpful to this point?

MCINTYRE: Well, they've been considered about as helpful as one might expect, not as helpful as the U.S. might hope but China doesn't really seem to want to see a North Korean nuclear power on the North Korean peninsula but its answer to the United States is always the same that it's the U.S. believes -- it says to the U.S. you believe our influence with North Korea is much greater than it really is. We don't have as much influence either.

BROWN: Jamie, thank you very much, Senior Pentagon Correspondent Jamie McIntyre tonight. A few stories in our national roundup tonight beginning with a number, it's a bit hard to get your head around or your arms around, $455 billion, with a B, dollars. That's the new projected budget deficit for this year, larger than expected, and nearly triple the deficit from last year, a continuing weak economy, the tax cuts, the cost of the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, the war on terror all playing a part. The White House budget director said the new figures are "a legitimate subject of concern" but called the situation manageable.

On to the Clintons' legal bills, it's been a while since you heard that phrase. The U.S. Court of Appeals decided today the government should pay some of those fees but not much, about $85,000 that the Clintons racked up during Whitewater and all the rest. The Clintons had asked for $3.5 million. The court said they were owed fees surrounding their response to the final report issued by Ken Starr because special prosecutors don't normally issue that kind of report.

And, Pat Robertson had quite a request yesterday on the "700 Club," his TV show. He urged his audience to pray for God to remove three justices from the U.S. Supreme Court so they could be replaced by conservatives.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAT ROBERTSON, EVANGELIST: Before it's too late, Lord, please hear our prayers. Answer, Lord, we pray. We cry out to you and we ask for miracles in regard to the Supreme Court. Lord, let there be a dramatic change, we pray, in the name of Jesus show you mighty arm.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: This is part of a 21-day prayer offensive that Robertson has launched after the Supreme Court decided that sodomy was not a crime.

Coming up on NEWSNIGHT, the war of words over the war, as Democrats come out swinging over the intelligence flap but are they going too far? Both stories after the break, around the world this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: There was a lot of ink in various opinion pages today devoted to how the State of the Union controversy might hurt the party in 2004 and the strange thing is it wasn't the Republican Party the pundits we're talking about.

The Democrats, the argument goes, run the risk of overreaching with their attacks on the White House surrounding Iraq but if they plan on turning down the volume they did not start today. If anything, the volume reached a new high decibel, more from our Congressional Correspondent Jonathan Karl.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) JONATHAN KARL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Ted Kennedy says the president has undermined America's prestige and credibility.

SEN. EDWARD KENNEDY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: It's a disgrace that the case for war seems to have been based on shoddy intelligence, hyped intelligence, and even false intelligence, all the evidence points to the conclusion that they put a spin on the intelligence and a spin on the truth.

KARL: In a sustained and coordinated attack, Kennedy's words were echoed on the Senate floor by top Democrats including Carl Levin, who singled out National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice.

SEN. CARL LEVIN (D-MI), ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: I am deeply troubled by Ms. Rice's continuing justification of the use of the statement in the president's State of the Union address. She repeatedly says it was "accurate" despite the fact that its clear aim was to create a false impression.

KARL: House Republican Leader Tom DeLay shot back, saying of the Democrats: "They think if they just get a little bit angrier and a little bit meaner and a little bit louder the American people will start hating the president as much as they do."

Republicans also say it is absurd to suggest Congress was misled because the vote to authorize the war took place months before the president's State of the Union address, months before the president said anything about Iraq's alleged attempts to buy uranium in Africa.

SEN. RICK SANTORUM (R), PENNSYLVANIA: The fact of the matter is that this is one piece of information amongst a whole laundry list of pieces of information, all of which are still standing as legitimate that Saddam Hussein had a weapons of mass destruction program.

KARL: But with nothing yet discovered in Iraq, Democrats are now raising questions about the credibility of the rest of the pre-war intelligence that suggested Iraq had stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction.

HARMAN: The question remains was the threat to the United States posed by Iraq sufficiently imminent to justify the onslaught of essentially unilateral military action?

KARL (on camera): The Democratic drumbeat continues Wednesday as presidential candidate John Kerry delivers a speech in New York accusing the president of undermining national security. Unlike Ted Kennedy, however, John Kerry voted to give the president the authority to go to war in the first place.

Jonathan Karl, CNN, Capitol Hill.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Joining us now to talk about the politics of this controversy someone who thinks the Democrats may be firing their guns too early, John Fund of "The Wall Street Journal," also a columnist for the paper's opinionjournal.com, nice to see you.

I'm going to get to the Democrats in a second but I want to establish something first. Do you think the issue itself, the question of the 16 words if you will, is a legitimate issue?

JOHN FUND, COLUMNIST, OPINIONJOURNAL.COM: Sure. We have had bad intelligence from the CIA across several administrations. We also have a constant series now of State of the Union messages that get cobbled together at the last minute and often some sloppy things happen. Legitimate questions and some kind of investigation at some level is probably necessary.

BROWN: And a quick corollary to that, how would you assess how the White House has handled the controversy over the last two weeks?

FUND: Badly. They like to hold their cards very close to their vest. They like to act as if we have all the answers. You don't have to answer any questions. We already know what we're doing and that gives you the impression that they're hiding something even if they're not.

BROWN: Yes. Having said all that the Democrats overreaching, how does this hurt the Democrats?

FUND: The Democrats are acting like Wile E. Coyote in the old Road Runner films. Remember, Wile E. Coyote got so frustrated because the Road Runner would always outsmart him that, eventually, he just started spluttering.

And that's what the Democrats are in danger of doing. They finally have got the president's credibility in question on one small sentence and they're pounding it to death. And I think they're going overboard. They are using the L word, lying. They're using the I word, impeachment. Bob Graham from Florida basically said that, if the Democrats controlled Congress, the president would meet a standard of impeachment. That's way out of line.

Ted Kennedy today basically said American troops are dying because of the lack of a policy in Iraq. Those are really harsh words. I think they're in danger of firing all their ammunition. And the real problem here is, if you want an investigation, don't act like the Queen in the "Alice in the Wonderland" story, who said, verdict first, trial later.

BROWN: Is it that you think that the harshness of the rhetoric will turn Americans away from the party, that they will, say: Oh, come on. OK, they made this mistake and it was perhaps a dumb mistake to make, or something, but these guys have gone way too far?

FUND: When you start using words like impeachment, disgraceful, lying, troops are dying because of this, this is the kind of fight that Americans don't like to hear out of Washington, unless things are clearly delineated. And here, they are a little murky.

Remember, 74 percent of Americans still think the war in Iraq was justified; 77 senators voted for Iraq, including half the Democratic senators.

BROWN: The polling is interesting on this, don't you think? Because there's a kind of -- I saw one poll, I think last week, that had about half the country believing that the intelligence had been hyped or exaggerated. The president's approval rating has come down pretty significantly.

FUND: Fifty-nine percent is still pretty high, though.

BROWN: Absolutely. Fair point. It's still very high, historically high, but certainly not in the 70s.

FUND: Well, that's why they're doing this, because, you see, any time you get bad news and you keep pounding, you are going to have some kind of an effect. Bad media coverage leads to lower poll results. And they hope they can get some traction.

Now, the Democrats have been so desperate for so long because they've been outsmarted by the president, I think a lot of Democrats are really mad the president put them in the political box of voting for the Iraq war, and now they're trying to get their revenge.

BROWN: Where is the -- if the Democrats run the danger of overreaching here in speaking too loudly, where is the danger, if there's a danger for the White House, for the president, and for the Republicans? In the peace going badly?

FUND: Well, I think that the president certainly underestimated the extent to which Iraq was going to be a can of worms. Remember, we were supposed to be gone from Bosnia back in 1995, '96. We are still there.

It looks like we're going to be in Iraq eight or 10 years. I think the president would have been better served by saying, we may have to be in Iraq for a long, long time to preserve the peace.

BROWN: John, do you think that their reluctance -- and it seemed to me they were reluctant to talk about the occupation, for fear that it might not -- that it might undermine support for the war -- is now coming back to haunt them?

FUND: I think it's troubling, because, if we get into a guerrilla war situation, where there's constant attrition, two or three people die a week, that's not something that you can call an unalloyed success.

I think things are going to turn around, because I think, eventually, someone is going to decide $25 million is enough to turn Saddam Hussein in. Once he's turned in, then I think a lot of the steam goes out of the guerrilla war.

BROWN: And what if he is turned in and it doesn't go out of the guerrilla war?

FUND: That's conceivably, but highly implausible, because, clearly, it's support for him and it's the fact that people think that he might go back into power that is both preventing the local governments from forming, restoring civil society, the fear factor, and also the fact that he has some die-hard loyalists. Once you take away the emperor, once you take away the king, the subjects are going to go elsewhere.

BROWN: Thanks for coming in tonight.

FUND: Pleasure.

BROWN: We've wanted to have you here for a while.

FUND: Thank you.

BROWN: We hope you will come back soon.

FUND: Thanks.

BROWN: Thank you very much.

Later on NEWSNIGHT -- one of your favorite segments -- morning papers. Up next, we will talk with Jerry Springer about his possible run for the U.S. Senate -- yes, that Jerry Springer.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: And later on NEWSNIGHT: the most amazing "Chicago Sun- Times" front page you have ever seen. That's later in morning papers. Jerry Springer's next.

We take a break first. This is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Few guests move us to write poetry, but our next guest did. It's a sort of preformed poem base entirely on the latest TV listings of his television program, "The Jerry Springer Show."

The poem goes like this: Escort service, mistress, proposal, affair with sister's boyfriend, large prostitute. Woman finds new lover, transsexual, ice cream man, and cowboy's wife. Fair to say Jerry Springer has one of the stranger jobs in American life, but he's considering another job entirely. He's filed candidacy papers for the 2004 Ohio Senate race. If you're mystified by the idea of Senator Springer, keep in mind, he used to be Mayor Springer, the mayor of Cincinnati.

Jerry Springer's in Cleveland, Ohio, tonight to talk about whether he really plans to run.

Nice to have you on the program.

JERRY SPRINGER, TALK SHOW HOST: Thank you.

BROWN: Do you plan to run? SPRINGER: I have to make up my mind in the next two weeks or so. And I would love to. There is no question about that.

What I've been trying to figure out is whether I can, in a sense, break through your poetry. Can I break through the clutter of the show? If all I'm going to be seen for is the host of that show, then I am wasting everybody's time. But if I think I can be heard on the issues, then I will run. And right now, it looks pretty good.

BROWN: Then let's talk about that.

You're a smart guy and you laid this out on the table. There's -- it's a really interesting dilemma. You've made a living, a good living, doing a pretty wacky television program, at times. At same time, you are, and have been for a long time, a serious person. But 99 percent of the people who know you know you as the talk show guy. How do you get past that?

SPRINGER: I'm not suggesting it's going to be easy. It's not that bad, because, remember, I'm running in Ohio. And at least southern Ohio knows me as having been the mayor and then a news anchor for 10 years. So there is a little bit of another image in Ohio.

But, surely, that's a problem. I'm not suggesting it's not. However, in the end, people are most concerned about their own lives. And no matter what people say about my show -- and we can talk about that quite a bit -- but no matter what they think about my show, my show didn't turn the economy of Ohio into a downward spiral. My show didn't close about factories, didn't underfund schools. It didn't send us into Iraq.

In other words, there's a certain amount of irrelevancy to the show vs. the issues that really concern people's lives. So if I have some good answers and people all of a sudden start paying attention to them and saying, you know, we do need a change, then I think I have a chance, because, remember, no one in the state of Ohio, whether you're a Democrat, Republican, or independent, no one is suggesting at this moment that Ohio is in good shape. Our state has a lot of problems.

BROWN: I want to talk about -- a bit about what you would run on, the issues that matter.

SPRINGER: Sure.

BROWN: But let me ask one more question, one more image question.

SPRINGER: Sure.

BROWN: In all of these years, did you ever say to yourself, did you ever wonder, am I -- am I precluding myself from another, more serious, if you will, career that is also in my blood? Did you ever think about that problem before this moment?

SPRINGER: Well, sure. I think about it, because, let's face it, I'm being criticized for the show every day for 13 years. BROWN: Yes.

SPRINGER: So it is on my mind. I think about that.

But I also knew that I never wanted politics to be a career. I mean, I made that decision pretty early on. I believe that, if politics becomes your career, there's a great temptation to be at least intellectually dishonest. If politics is the way you put food on your table, then you are going to do anything you can to win because you have to feed your family. So my thought always was that I would find other ways to make a living.

And I have as a lawyer, as a news anchor, as the talk show host. But politics to me is more look a religion. It's something you really believe in, but it's not something you do to make a living. And that's how I treated it. And I guess you could look back in hindsight and say, boy, if you wanted to be a U.S. senator, you shouldn't have done the show. But I'm happy with my life. I have been so lucky. I can't really complain.

BROWN: Good for you.

We've got about a minute. What do you care most about? What is the issue out there? Is it the economy that will drive you if you, in fact, get into the race?

SPRINGER: Yes, but there's a bigger issue. The bigger issue is, I think the little guy gets screwed in our country all the time. I think our laws and our policies so much benefit the wealthy, powerful interests in America.

I have lived in this country at every income level that exists. And it wasn't until I became wealthy, because of my silly show, that I realized, oh, my gosh, everything is done for me. When we try to juice up the economy, what do we do? We come up with a plan that basically gives a lot of money back to wealthy people. And middle- and low-income America gets virtually nothing; 50 percent of American taxpayers are going to get less than $100 back.

What I have suggested is that, instead of talking about income tax reduction for people like me, how about a payroll tax deduction? I don't think anybody ought to pay the payroll tax in the first $10,000 to $20,000 a year they make, and because that money, they need to live on. They would spend it all. And that would juice up the economy. And to make up for some of that lost revenue, I say eliminate the cap, so wealthier people would have to continue paying it past the time they make $84,000 a year.

A major emphasis on education. I know we are running out of time.

BROWN: Yes, we are.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: I'm sorry. SPRINGER: Well, one last thing on education -- well, OK, we are out of time. Anyway.

BROWN: Well, that's OK. We are out of time. But come back when you make the decision. We will talk more about the issues. We appreciate your time.

SPRINGER: I appreciate that, Aaron. Yes, thank you.

BROWN: Thank you. Jerry Springer, it'll be an interesting campaign, if it happens, truly.

On to other things here, quickly. There are few people daring enough to put themselves right in the path a hurricane. Funny how they all seem to be miked up and ready or not for their live shot. Tonight, a tribute, a tribute, to the intrepid reporters who chased a hurricane all day today.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Here in Port Lavaca, Texas, we're starting to see some of the strongest and most intense rain so far from Hurricane Claudette.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The situation is going from bad to worse. The rain has ended, but the wind is getting even stronger. As you can see right here, (INAUDIBLE) even worse right now. We'll continue to bring you updates off and on all evening.

Power is out in the city of Port Lavaca right now. Authorities are urging everyone to stay indoors if they have not evacuated as of now. For now, Hurricane Claudette making her presence known in Port Lavaca, Texas.

You can see the rain and the wind now blowing here at Port O'Connor, some damage now to the homes. The rain really hurts so excuse me if I don't look at you while I talk.

RANDY TURNER, KTAB REPORTER: Four to 8 inches of rain expected, as Claudette continues to affect the Texas Gulf Coast.

Reporting for the KTAB first morning network forecast center chase team, this is Randy Turner.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're experiencing winds up to 80 miles per hour. It's becoming very difficult to even stand outside any longer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Definitely, this rain feels is like piercing needles

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right now, if you want to really see what this Claudette, what her fury is all about, is -- take a look at the gulf waters.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've already damaged our truck trying to open up the door in the wind. It was blowing so hard that we broke the axle on the door. It's been like this for about 30, 40 minutes. You can tell we are getting close to the center of the storm.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What are you guys doing?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Trying to secure that boat.

MARIANA STANLEY, NEWS 24 HOUSTON REPORTER: We were asked coming here to be extremely careful. Obviously, we will keep you guys updated as to what happens here in Surfside.

Mariana Stanley, News 24 Houston.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: My mother always told me, get inside work.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT: bringing together the actors in an American drama: James Meredith and the U.S. Marshals who walked him into Ole Miss, the University of Mississippi, 40 years ago.

A break first. This is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Forty years after the fact, it is still hard to comprehend the courage it took to do something we all take for granted today.

James Meredith simply wanted to go to college and he wanted to go to the University of Mississippi. But 40 years ago, the only people at Ole Miss who looked like James Meredith could be found sweeping the floors. And a lot of Mississippians didn't want to see that change back then. So the simple act of registering for class took enormous courage for one man and a lot of help from 127 federal Marshals, all of whom were recognized at the Justice Department today.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN (voice-over): Still feisty, still unvarnished, James Meredith was as frank as ever in the Great Hall of the Department of Justice.

JAMES MEREDITH, FORMER UNIVERSITY OF MISSISSIPPI STUDENT: The whole episode at Ole Miss had been an insult to me and my family.

BROWN: The occasion was the presentation of a commemorative medallion to the 30 or so surviving U.S. Marshals who guarded Meredith when he enrolled as the first African-American at the University of Mississippi, Ole miss, 40 years ago this fall.

JOHN ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL: We fulfilled a destiny that not only had marks of personal achievement, but it changed and improved a national community.

BROWN: There were 127 U.S. Marshals present 40 years ago at Ole Miss. Dozens were injured by white protesters, but not one Marshal fired a shot, on the orders of the then-attorney general, Robert F. Kennedy.

ASHCROFT: At the University of Mississippi, the Marshals defended one man's aspirations and the promise of our founding. Both James Meredith and the U.S. Marshals exhibited the kind of courage that sustains freedom.

BROWN: James Meredith was a man with a plan. He was 29, a veteran of Air Force when he registered. He was advised by a team of lawyers. He knew what he was doing and he knew what he wanted.

MEREDITH: Mississippi is the most important state, because it possess the richest soil of any land in the entire world. Equally, Mississippi's important, most important state, because it symbolizes the epitome of the only major issue the founding fathers did not know how to resolve, the race question, black and white.

BROWN: To James Meredith and his supporters, it was the last big battle of the Civil War.

MEREDITH: You've got to understand, the state of Mississippi was in rebellion. It had rebelled against the United States. Now, that's been a very difficult story for America to tell.

BROWN: Ole Miss is quiet today. It is not nearly the same place. But there is still a statue a Confederate soldier that has not been taken down. And the Confederate battle flag still flies, part of the Mississippi state flag. And for all the government protection James Meredith received, he remembers one thing, one moment, above all.

MEREDITH: I noticed in the hallway a black janitor. And I wondered why he was standing there. And he had a mop under his arm. And as I passed him, he turned his body, twisted his body, and touched me with the mop handle. Now, this delivered a message. And the message was clear: We are looking after you while you're here.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: James Meredith. Morning papers -- and interesting morning papers -- after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: OK. Time for morning papers from around the country and around the world.

I don't really know how to do this tonight. We begin with "The Chicago Sun-Times." They're playing the All-Star Game in Chicago, as you well know. And so, quite understandably, the headline in "The Sun-Times" has to do with that. Get a shot here: "Secret Weapon Brown Steals Show." Look at that shot. Man, is that cool? "CNN Anchor Preempts Lead Story in Chicago, Baseball's All-Star Game."

Look at that -- you guys didn't know... (ROOSTER CROWING)

BROWN: Thank you.

You didn't know I had arms like that, did you? Anyway, "The Chicago Sun-Times" is a little late with its front page, so they printed that up. And, by the way, this will not change when they get the actual picture. The weather tomorrow in Chicago is: humdinger. OK? That's going on the wall.

Now, you know that -- this isn't really a newspaper -- but you know that ad campaign against SUVs, What Would Jesus Drive? OK? So the Sports Utility Vehicles Owners of America, which I am sure is a lobbying group, has come out with an answer to that. What does Jesus, or in this case Jesus, drive? They found Jesus here. And Jesus owns an SUV. And they're running this ad. And I thought that was cool enough to put that on television. They asked him.

Anyway, everybody has a lobbying association, and so do SUVs. "The Oregonian" out in Portland, Oregon, puts the deficit at $455 billion, a record in dollar terms, on the front page. Down at the bottom, a story we like a lot: "Flag Football Proves Too Punishing For Prison." So they stopped playing flag football at Eastern Oregon Correctional Institution because too many of the inmates were getting hurt. They also have kind of a cool picture on the front page.

Speaking of cool pictures on the front page, "The Detroit Free Press," a very good front page. They put the deficit there, too, and the bailout, some local money. But look at that picture of an old building in Detroit that they are going to fix up. Isn't that cool?

That's a look at morning papers.

That's the program. We're all back here, oh, let's say, 10:00 Eastern time tomorrow. Hope you are, too.

Until then, good night for all of us at NEWSNIGHT.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





in Iraq Extended; Troubling Developments in North Korea>


Aired July 15, 2003 - 22:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again, everyone.
Tonight's an unusual kind of lead story for us. It doesn't involve presidential politics, debates about war or grave developments in world diplomacy though we have some of that too tonight.

Our lead is the kind of story where it's not about who said what or right and wrong or the implications of this or that. It's far simpler. It's about getting gout of the way, out of the way of a force that no one has the power to change or control.

Today, that force has a name, Claudette, and the storm is where we begin the whip. John Zarrella on the Texas Gulf Coast tonight, John a headline please.

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, there's a saying in Texas, "Don't Mess with Texas." Well, Hurricane Claudette did and the storm left behind a mess for Texans to clean up -- Aaron.

BROWN: John, thank you, back with you at the top.

On to the cost of the war in Iraq from the perspective of the families left behind. Jennifer Coggiola is in Hinesville, Georgia, not far from Fort Stewart, Jennifer a headline.

JENNIFER COGGIOLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I am actually in a Wal- Mart parking lot just outside of Fort Stewart where a lot of these wives today were told that their husbands aren't coming home as soon as they originally had hoped -- Aaron.

BROWN: We'll get the details, Jennifer, thank you.

Troubling developments involving North Korea today -- our Senior Pentagon Correspondent Jamie McIntyre working the story so, Jamie, a headline from you.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, you know in Iraq, the United States alleged that Saddam Hussein was lying about destroying his weapons of mass destruction. With North Korea, it's just the opposite. The U.S. is wondering if Kim Jong-Il is lying about having developed them. With North Korea's latest claim to have reprocessed plutonium, one former secretary of defense is warning that the U.S. appears on a path to war -- Aaron.

BROWN: Jamie, thank you, back to you and the rest shortly. Also coming up on NEWSNIGHT tonight, a full court press by Democrats today attacking the White House over Iraq, we'll look at the tactical risk they may run in going after a still popular president a very long ways from Election Day.

And, four of the strangest words in American politics today, Jerry Springer for Senate. We'll talk with the king of trashy talk about whether he'll actually run from the state of Ohio.

And, of course, neither rain nor gale force winds nor tropical storms will keep us from bringing you tomorrow morning's paper. It's our regular feature and it has a bonus tonight to say the least, all of that and more coming up in the hour ahead.

We begin tonight on the Gulf Coast, which for a while today moved several hundred yards further inland than normal. Hurricane Claudette was a mild storm by the numbers but a mild hurricane is sort of like a small H-bomb. They all do their share of damage and there is plenty where Claudette came ashore tonight.

So, once again, we turn to CNN's John Zarrella, John good evening.

ZARRELLA: Aaron, some 15 counties in Texas have been affected by Hurricane Claudette. Calhoun County where we are and where the eye of the storm passed over was affected perhaps more than any other county.

The Texas Department of Public Safety crews are out tonight beginning to assess the damage and this is some of what they'll find. You can see behind me the top of an old 1910 building built in 1910, historical site here, was knocked down. Inside you can see that the damage is extensive inside as well.

It's sporadic in the county but you can find this kind of damage everywhere. Claudette flooded homes, tore off roofs, knocked out power, and for the most part did more damage than most Texans expected.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ZARRELLA (voice-over): Claudette was no lady when she came calling on Texas. The storm made landfall along the central coastline near the city of Port Lavaca as residents raced to protect their property.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'd just as soon that it turn around and went back in the other direction.

ZARRELLA: After gathering strength in the Gulf, Claudette charged ashore with winds sustained at 80 miles an hour. Gusts reached 104. At is height the storm's winds tore off this second story porch. The porch landed behind the house in the pool.

Razor sharp pieces of aluminum siding flew through the air. Power was out throughout the city. The pecan tree in Bill Sterling's front yard came down just missing the house. BILL STERLING, PORT LAVACA RESIDENT: It's been there since the early 1900s. It finally blew over it looks like. Sure hate to see it go too. This house has been in the family for years.

ZARRELLA: The eye of the storm passed directly over Port Lavaca as if Claudette wanted to see the damage for herself.

(on camera): As the center of Claudette was making landfall, the winds on the north side of the storm where we are was driving the water up and over the sea wall. This is called the storm surge and, as dramatic as these pictures may seem, this is just from a category one hurricane.

(voice-over): Further north storm surge flooding was worse. In Surf Side south of Galveston roads and homes were under water. At Sabine (ph) Pass on the Texas-Louisiana border, the Coast Guard in a dramatic rescue plucked two fishermen from the Gulf after their shrimp boat, named Water World, went down.

Claudette left her mark all along the Texas coastline and overturned a Winnebago, collapsed walls, trees uprooted. On the meteorological scale of hurricanes Claudette is minor but it's a major headache for the Texans who have to clean up the mess.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZARRELLA: And sadly enough, Aaron, we have to report that we are learning that there has been at least one fatality, a 32-year-old woman killed in Victoria, Texas, from a falling tree limb. Victoria, Texas is just inland from here, probably about 20 to 30 miles from where we are at Port Lavaca -- Aaron.

BROWN: John, thank you, John Zarrella in Texas tonight, nice day's work, John thank you.

To Iraq next, today the Pentagon said it can offer no firm timeline for the return of thousands of American troops in Iraq, officials today expressing the hope, nothing more, that members of the 3rd Infantry Division will be home by September.

It's hard to forget the refrain we heard so many times as we watched them make their way north, first to Baghdad then to home it was said. That was the hope. It still is tonight but it's hope now with frustration.

Here is CNN's Nic Robertson.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): West of Baghdad, troops of the 3rd Infantry Division sit, many contemplating word their much anticipated leave has been pushed back yet again.

SGT. ERIC WRIGHT, U.S. ARMY, 3RD INFANTRY DIVISION: I felt probably a level of hopelessness that I have never felt before in my life. I felt like it was like the knockout punch I guess.

ROBERTSON: Barely three months ago, Wright and the rest of his division were doing what most soldiers dream of, after six months of sitting in Kuwait blazing a trail to Baghdad. Since victory, fortunes changes, keeping the peace in central Iraq instead of going home, the dangerous Sunni Triangle becoming an all but permanent base. Attacks increased as the temperature rose.

SGT. THOMAS SLAGO, U.S. ARMY 3RD INFANTRY DIVISION: Finally, you know, we get these rumors, you know, we're going to hit on this day and head back to Kuwait. We all get excited.

ROBERTSON: But they're not going anywhere. Commanders talk of high morale but away from cameras heads are hung low.

WRIGHT: Some of them hope that they will get wounded so that they can go home. (Unintelligible) hey, shoot me. I want to go home.

ROBERTSON: There is still support for the mission but maybe not as much in the heart as some would hope.

GEN. BUFORD BLOUNT, COMMANDER, U.S. ARMY 3RD INFANTRY DIVISION: I'm trying to get them out of here, redeployed, but they got to stay focused on the mission.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON: And without focus the fear for commanders is their troops may be more prone to attack. For now, at least, judging by an attack Monday night when the 3rd Infantry Division killed all their assailants their guard is up. Troops worry how long can they keep it that way.

Nic Robertson, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: And for every close call in the Sunni Triangle, the heartache grows a world away. You can say Army families are used to it but Stars and Stripes and khaki can only stretch so far and a child can only wait so long, CNN's Jennifer Coggiola now with the families waiting at Fort Stewart, Georgia.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DYLAN MORRIS, SON: My dad wanted to come back in August but they keep changing their minds.

COGGIOLA (voice-over): But their dad, Private First Class James Morris who's been in Iraq since January won't be here.

MORRIS: We wanted him to come on my birthday but the president changed his mind again. He keeps on doing that.

COGGIOLA: This weekend families of the nearly 10,000 soldiers from Fort Stewart in Georgia were told that homecoming will be delayed yet again.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I felt I was safe in telling my kids that their daddy was coming home and now from what the kids' perspective is, is that they've been lied to. I feel whatever my husband is doing over there that it can be done by any number of highly trained American Army forces.

I mean the Marines are bringing theirs home. The Air Force is bringing theirs home and the Navy is bringing theirs home. Just for some reason 3rd ID is not being rotated out like the other ones.

COGGIOLA: For Jenna (ph) who's just days away from having the couple's second child, keeping her husband, Specialist Kenny Hamilton's morale strong is sometimes the hardest part of it all.

JENNA HAMILTON, WIFE: If it would work to get him out of Baghdad, he'd shoot himself in the foot in a heartbeat. Everybody is acting the same way. He said a lot of the soldiers are calling wives and just begging them to get them out of Baghdad, you know.

COGGIOLA: For Cari, who's holding out little hope her husband, Private First Class Keegan Hatat (ph) will be home soon, she says it's hard to find the words to encourage him.

CARI HATTAT, WIFE: There's no way to keep his morale up. No matter what I say all he keeps saying is get me home. Get me home.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COGGIOLA: And the wives have been told that unless something goes wrong, the 3rd Infantry will be home in 60 to 120 days but, for now, these families just wait, sending new postcards and packages once again and hoping that this homecoming date doesn't change -- Aaron.

BROWN: Jennifer, thank you very much from Georgia tonight.

Next, another look at the story, this time a letter home, it comes from Baghdad and was written by Specialist Michelle Haas. She's a combat medic with the 26 Infantry Battalion, 1st Armored Division.

She spends her time patrolling the streets of Baghdad looking for the bad guys. The soldiers call them the Ali Babbas. Her letter home goes out to her family in Michigan's Upper Peninsula.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SPC. MICHELLE HAAS, U.S. ARMY: Dear Mom and Dad and family: Hey, how are you? I'm doing OK. It's been another hot day in Iraq. Sweat it burns the eyes. It's always hot in Iraq. Today, I went on two patrols. The first one we were chasing about seven Ali Babbas but we did not catch them in time.

I mean I kind of get a little bit nervous but with the team or the platoon I'm working with I know I feel pretty comfortable with. With all the stuff that we wear it makes a person feel really out of shape but on the flipside it gets you in better shape. I thought we had Ali Babbas but it ended up being a family dispute.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where does he live? Where does he live?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's your brother?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My brother.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're (unintelligible)?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't give a -- who's got the keys to get in the house?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who has the keys?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The keys for the house.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's my property. I'm the boss.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My wife.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where's your wife?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My uncle.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's Ali Babba?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ali Babba, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no. No, no.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's go. Victor, move your team. Brooks move your team. Let's go. Come up here for some bull like that. You're going to piss me off.

HAAS: Since I got back I was hanging out with the guys, watching movies, and eating dinner, yummy, mac and cheese. I like being in Iraq. It's rather exciting. I like hanging and being able to help the locals and playing with the kids.

HAAS (on camera): My husband is also in the Army. Actually, he's probably like 15, 20 minutes away from me but I don't get to see him that much.

(voice-over): I hope to see my husband soon. I miss him dearly like I miss you all. I'm worried about his health but I shall let you go for now. I'm getting sleepy. I love you. Love, Michelle.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: The view from Iraq tonight. Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, sorting out the intelligence on nuclear capability but this time it's North Korea and its threat to start making bombs.

And later, from politician to talk show host, now Jerry Springer perhaps wants to run for the Senate. We'll talk to him tonight and much more as NEWSNIGHT continues from New York.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: The question of what to do about North Korea is getting tricky again and the North Koreans have once again made a big show of crossing a red line. They now say they are one step closer to making a nuclear weapon or perhaps more nuclear weapons.

There is some suspicion they already have two but nobody really knows for sure and that's part of the problem the uncertainty. The other is what to do regardless. The Bush administration seems content to wait things out, something that has prompted a former defense secretary in the Clinton administration to call a recipe for stumbling into war.

Here's our Senior Pentagon Correspondent Jamie McIntyre.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE (voice-over): North Korea has told the U.S. it has completed reprocessing some 8,000 spent fuel rods from its nuclear reactor at Yongbyon and now has enough plutonium to make a half dozen nuclear bombs. If that's a threat, the U.S. is dismissing it.

RICHARD BOUCHER, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: We will not submit to blackmail. We will not offer any incentives or inducements for North Korea to stop something they never should have started.

MCINTYRE: But in an interview with "The Washington Post," former Defense Secretary William Perry, a recognized Korea expert delivers an ominous warning. "Time is running out" he tells the paper. "I have thought for some months that if the North Koreans move toward processing, then we are on a path toward war."

REP. JANE HARMAN (D-CA), INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: When former Secretary of Defense Bill Perry, a guy who doesn't hold press interviews easily says that he thinks we're drifting toward war I pay attention.

MCINTYRE: The White House insists there is still plenty of time for diplomacy and economic pressure to force North Korea to abandon its nuclear ambitions.

SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE SPOKESMAN: Obviously, you never take any options off the table but we seek a diplomatic solution.

MCINTYRE: One big uncertainty is whether North Korea's Kim Jong- Il is simply bluffing hoping to intimidate the U.S. into appeasement by simply claiming to be a nuclear power. U.S. intelligence concludes North Korea has reprocessed plutonium but is uncertain how far its nuclear program has progressed and the fact that the pre-war intelligence on Iraq is now under question has some members of Congress wary.

HARMAN: Our intelligence that tells us whether the North Koreans are bluffing has to be accurate, timely, and unbiased.

MCINTYRE: Former Defense Secretary Perry criticized the Bush administration for refusing bilateral negotiations with the North. "I think we're losing control" he told "The Post." "I'm damned if I can figure out what the policy is."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE: The Bush administration is hoping to squeeze Pyongyang by going after its only source of hard cash. Sources say the U.S. is poised now, along with ten other countries, to stop North Korean shipments at sea of arms, drugs, and other contraband, claiming that it is a direct threat to U.S. national security -- Aaron.

BROWN: Jamie, on to the policy here. The United States, the Bush administration says it wants to avoid bilateral talks; that is, talks with the North Koreans directly that it wants a broader negotiation or conference or whatever the right word is. Are we anywhere in that? Is there anything being proposed? Is anybody making any noise that there ought to be such a meeting?

MCINTYRE: Well, the North Koreans are still asking for it. According to our producer at the State Department who checked with her sources again today, the latest message delivered to North Korea through China is absolutely no one-on-one just North Korea-U.S. meeting that they'll only meet on a regional basis, either with China or with other partners in the region.

And, the U.S. is sticking to that. They claim that any concessions they make would amount to giving in to North Korean blackmail and they're sticking by that position. They believe they can pressure North Korea, unlike Iraq, with economic means because North Korea is not sitting on a sea of oil that it can use to generate revenues and thumb its nose at the United States.

BROWN: It's not sitting on a sea of much of anything. It's very hard pressed. Are the Chinese -- have the Chinese been considered by the administration helpful to this point?

MCINTYRE: Well, they've been considered about as helpful as one might expect, not as helpful as the U.S. might hope but China doesn't really seem to want to see a North Korean nuclear power on the North Korean peninsula but its answer to the United States is always the same that it's the U.S. believes -- it says to the U.S. you believe our influence with North Korea is much greater than it really is. We don't have as much influence either.

BROWN: Jamie, thank you very much, Senior Pentagon Correspondent Jamie McIntyre tonight. A few stories in our national roundup tonight beginning with a number, it's a bit hard to get your head around or your arms around, $455 billion, with a B, dollars. That's the new projected budget deficit for this year, larger than expected, and nearly triple the deficit from last year, a continuing weak economy, the tax cuts, the cost of the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, the war on terror all playing a part. The White House budget director said the new figures are "a legitimate subject of concern" but called the situation manageable.

On to the Clintons' legal bills, it's been a while since you heard that phrase. The U.S. Court of Appeals decided today the government should pay some of those fees but not much, about $85,000 that the Clintons racked up during Whitewater and all the rest. The Clintons had asked for $3.5 million. The court said they were owed fees surrounding their response to the final report issued by Ken Starr because special prosecutors don't normally issue that kind of report.

And, Pat Robertson had quite a request yesterday on the "700 Club," his TV show. He urged his audience to pray for God to remove three justices from the U.S. Supreme Court so they could be replaced by conservatives.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAT ROBERTSON, EVANGELIST: Before it's too late, Lord, please hear our prayers. Answer, Lord, we pray. We cry out to you and we ask for miracles in regard to the Supreme Court. Lord, let there be a dramatic change, we pray, in the name of Jesus show you mighty arm.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: This is part of a 21-day prayer offensive that Robertson has launched after the Supreme Court decided that sodomy was not a crime.

Coming up on NEWSNIGHT, the war of words over the war, as Democrats come out swinging over the intelligence flap but are they going too far? Both stories after the break, around the world this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: There was a lot of ink in various opinion pages today devoted to how the State of the Union controversy might hurt the party in 2004 and the strange thing is it wasn't the Republican Party the pundits we're talking about.

The Democrats, the argument goes, run the risk of overreaching with their attacks on the White House surrounding Iraq but if they plan on turning down the volume they did not start today. If anything, the volume reached a new high decibel, more from our Congressional Correspondent Jonathan Karl.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) JONATHAN KARL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Ted Kennedy says the president has undermined America's prestige and credibility.

SEN. EDWARD KENNEDY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: It's a disgrace that the case for war seems to have been based on shoddy intelligence, hyped intelligence, and even false intelligence, all the evidence points to the conclusion that they put a spin on the intelligence and a spin on the truth.

KARL: In a sustained and coordinated attack, Kennedy's words were echoed on the Senate floor by top Democrats including Carl Levin, who singled out National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice.

SEN. CARL LEVIN (D-MI), ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: I am deeply troubled by Ms. Rice's continuing justification of the use of the statement in the president's State of the Union address. She repeatedly says it was "accurate" despite the fact that its clear aim was to create a false impression.

KARL: House Republican Leader Tom DeLay shot back, saying of the Democrats: "They think if they just get a little bit angrier and a little bit meaner and a little bit louder the American people will start hating the president as much as they do."

Republicans also say it is absurd to suggest Congress was misled because the vote to authorize the war took place months before the president's State of the Union address, months before the president said anything about Iraq's alleged attempts to buy uranium in Africa.

SEN. RICK SANTORUM (R), PENNSYLVANIA: The fact of the matter is that this is one piece of information amongst a whole laundry list of pieces of information, all of which are still standing as legitimate that Saddam Hussein had a weapons of mass destruction program.

KARL: But with nothing yet discovered in Iraq, Democrats are now raising questions about the credibility of the rest of the pre-war intelligence that suggested Iraq had stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction.

HARMAN: The question remains was the threat to the United States posed by Iraq sufficiently imminent to justify the onslaught of essentially unilateral military action?

KARL (on camera): The Democratic drumbeat continues Wednesday as presidential candidate John Kerry delivers a speech in New York accusing the president of undermining national security. Unlike Ted Kennedy, however, John Kerry voted to give the president the authority to go to war in the first place.

Jonathan Karl, CNN, Capitol Hill.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Joining us now to talk about the politics of this controversy someone who thinks the Democrats may be firing their guns too early, John Fund of "The Wall Street Journal," also a columnist for the paper's opinionjournal.com, nice to see you.

I'm going to get to the Democrats in a second but I want to establish something first. Do you think the issue itself, the question of the 16 words if you will, is a legitimate issue?

JOHN FUND, COLUMNIST, OPINIONJOURNAL.COM: Sure. We have had bad intelligence from the CIA across several administrations. We also have a constant series now of State of the Union messages that get cobbled together at the last minute and often some sloppy things happen. Legitimate questions and some kind of investigation at some level is probably necessary.

BROWN: And a quick corollary to that, how would you assess how the White House has handled the controversy over the last two weeks?

FUND: Badly. They like to hold their cards very close to their vest. They like to act as if we have all the answers. You don't have to answer any questions. We already know what we're doing and that gives you the impression that they're hiding something even if they're not.

BROWN: Yes. Having said all that the Democrats overreaching, how does this hurt the Democrats?

FUND: The Democrats are acting like Wile E. Coyote in the old Road Runner films. Remember, Wile E. Coyote got so frustrated because the Road Runner would always outsmart him that, eventually, he just started spluttering.

And that's what the Democrats are in danger of doing. They finally have got the president's credibility in question on one small sentence and they're pounding it to death. And I think they're going overboard. They are using the L word, lying. They're using the I word, impeachment. Bob Graham from Florida basically said that, if the Democrats controlled Congress, the president would meet a standard of impeachment. That's way out of line.

Ted Kennedy today basically said American troops are dying because of the lack of a policy in Iraq. Those are really harsh words. I think they're in danger of firing all their ammunition. And the real problem here is, if you want an investigation, don't act like the Queen in the "Alice in the Wonderland" story, who said, verdict first, trial later.

BROWN: Is it that you think that the harshness of the rhetoric will turn Americans away from the party, that they will, say: Oh, come on. OK, they made this mistake and it was perhaps a dumb mistake to make, or something, but these guys have gone way too far?

FUND: When you start using words like impeachment, disgraceful, lying, troops are dying because of this, this is the kind of fight that Americans don't like to hear out of Washington, unless things are clearly delineated. And here, they are a little murky.

Remember, 74 percent of Americans still think the war in Iraq was justified; 77 senators voted for Iraq, including half the Democratic senators.

BROWN: The polling is interesting on this, don't you think? Because there's a kind of -- I saw one poll, I think last week, that had about half the country believing that the intelligence had been hyped or exaggerated. The president's approval rating has come down pretty significantly.

FUND: Fifty-nine percent is still pretty high, though.

BROWN: Absolutely. Fair point. It's still very high, historically high, but certainly not in the 70s.

FUND: Well, that's why they're doing this, because, you see, any time you get bad news and you keep pounding, you are going to have some kind of an effect. Bad media coverage leads to lower poll results. And they hope they can get some traction.

Now, the Democrats have been so desperate for so long because they've been outsmarted by the president, I think a lot of Democrats are really mad the president put them in the political box of voting for the Iraq war, and now they're trying to get their revenge.

BROWN: Where is the -- if the Democrats run the danger of overreaching here in speaking too loudly, where is the danger, if there's a danger for the White House, for the president, and for the Republicans? In the peace going badly?

FUND: Well, I think that the president certainly underestimated the extent to which Iraq was going to be a can of worms. Remember, we were supposed to be gone from Bosnia back in 1995, '96. We are still there.

It looks like we're going to be in Iraq eight or 10 years. I think the president would have been better served by saying, we may have to be in Iraq for a long, long time to preserve the peace.

BROWN: John, do you think that their reluctance -- and it seemed to me they were reluctant to talk about the occupation, for fear that it might not -- that it might undermine support for the war -- is now coming back to haunt them?

FUND: I think it's troubling, because, if we get into a guerrilla war situation, where there's constant attrition, two or three people die a week, that's not something that you can call an unalloyed success.

I think things are going to turn around, because I think, eventually, someone is going to decide $25 million is enough to turn Saddam Hussein in. Once he's turned in, then I think a lot of the steam goes out of the guerrilla war.

BROWN: And what if he is turned in and it doesn't go out of the guerrilla war?

FUND: That's conceivably, but highly implausible, because, clearly, it's support for him and it's the fact that people think that he might go back into power that is both preventing the local governments from forming, restoring civil society, the fear factor, and also the fact that he has some die-hard loyalists. Once you take away the emperor, once you take away the king, the subjects are going to go elsewhere.

BROWN: Thanks for coming in tonight.

FUND: Pleasure.

BROWN: We've wanted to have you here for a while.

FUND: Thank you.

BROWN: We hope you will come back soon.

FUND: Thanks.

BROWN: Thank you very much.

Later on NEWSNIGHT -- one of your favorite segments -- morning papers. Up next, we will talk with Jerry Springer about his possible run for the U.S. Senate -- yes, that Jerry Springer.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: And later on NEWSNIGHT: the most amazing "Chicago Sun- Times" front page you have ever seen. That's later in morning papers. Jerry Springer's next.

We take a break first. This is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Few guests move us to write poetry, but our next guest did. It's a sort of preformed poem base entirely on the latest TV listings of his television program, "The Jerry Springer Show."

The poem goes like this: Escort service, mistress, proposal, affair with sister's boyfriend, large prostitute. Woman finds new lover, transsexual, ice cream man, and cowboy's wife. Fair to say Jerry Springer has one of the stranger jobs in American life, but he's considering another job entirely. He's filed candidacy papers for the 2004 Ohio Senate race. If you're mystified by the idea of Senator Springer, keep in mind, he used to be Mayor Springer, the mayor of Cincinnati.

Jerry Springer's in Cleveland, Ohio, tonight to talk about whether he really plans to run.

Nice to have you on the program.

JERRY SPRINGER, TALK SHOW HOST: Thank you.

BROWN: Do you plan to run? SPRINGER: I have to make up my mind in the next two weeks or so. And I would love to. There is no question about that.

What I've been trying to figure out is whether I can, in a sense, break through your poetry. Can I break through the clutter of the show? If all I'm going to be seen for is the host of that show, then I am wasting everybody's time. But if I think I can be heard on the issues, then I will run. And right now, it looks pretty good.

BROWN: Then let's talk about that.

You're a smart guy and you laid this out on the table. There's -- it's a really interesting dilemma. You've made a living, a good living, doing a pretty wacky television program, at times. At same time, you are, and have been for a long time, a serious person. But 99 percent of the people who know you know you as the talk show guy. How do you get past that?

SPRINGER: I'm not suggesting it's going to be easy. It's not that bad, because, remember, I'm running in Ohio. And at least southern Ohio knows me as having been the mayor and then a news anchor for 10 years. So there is a little bit of another image in Ohio.

But, surely, that's a problem. I'm not suggesting it's not. However, in the end, people are most concerned about their own lives. And no matter what people say about my show -- and we can talk about that quite a bit -- but no matter what they think about my show, my show didn't turn the economy of Ohio into a downward spiral. My show didn't close about factories, didn't underfund schools. It didn't send us into Iraq.

In other words, there's a certain amount of irrelevancy to the show vs. the issues that really concern people's lives. So if I have some good answers and people all of a sudden start paying attention to them and saying, you know, we do need a change, then I think I have a chance, because, remember, no one in the state of Ohio, whether you're a Democrat, Republican, or independent, no one is suggesting at this moment that Ohio is in good shape. Our state has a lot of problems.

BROWN: I want to talk about -- a bit about what you would run on, the issues that matter.

SPRINGER: Sure.

BROWN: But let me ask one more question, one more image question.

SPRINGER: Sure.

BROWN: In all of these years, did you ever say to yourself, did you ever wonder, am I -- am I precluding myself from another, more serious, if you will, career that is also in my blood? Did you ever think about that problem before this moment?

SPRINGER: Well, sure. I think about it, because, let's face it, I'm being criticized for the show every day for 13 years. BROWN: Yes.

SPRINGER: So it is on my mind. I think about that.

But I also knew that I never wanted politics to be a career. I mean, I made that decision pretty early on. I believe that, if politics becomes your career, there's a great temptation to be at least intellectually dishonest. If politics is the way you put food on your table, then you are going to do anything you can to win because you have to feed your family. So my thought always was that I would find other ways to make a living.

And I have as a lawyer, as a news anchor, as the talk show host. But politics to me is more look a religion. It's something you really believe in, but it's not something you do to make a living. And that's how I treated it. And I guess you could look back in hindsight and say, boy, if you wanted to be a U.S. senator, you shouldn't have done the show. But I'm happy with my life. I have been so lucky. I can't really complain.

BROWN: Good for you.

We've got about a minute. What do you care most about? What is the issue out there? Is it the economy that will drive you if you, in fact, get into the race?

SPRINGER: Yes, but there's a bigger issue. The bigger issue is, I think the little guy gets screwed in our country all the time. I think our laws and our policies so much benefit the wealthy, powerful interests in America.

I have lived in this country at every income level that exists. And it wasn't until I became wealthy, because of my silly show, that I realized, oh, my gosh, everything is done for me. When we try to juice up the economy, what do we do? We come up with a plan that basically gives a lot of money back to wealthy people. And middle- and low-income America gets virtually nothing; 50 percent of American taxpayers are going to get less than $100 back.

What I have suggested is that, instead of talking about income tax reduction for people like me, how about a payroll tax deduction? I don't think anybody ought to pay the payroll tax in the first $10,000 to $20,000 a year they make, and because that money, they need to live on. They would spend it all. And that would juice up the economy. And to make up for some of that lost revenue, I say eliminate the cap, so wealthier people would have to continue paying it past the time they make $84,000 a year.

A major emphasis on education. I know we are running out of time.

BROWN: Yes, we are.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: I'm sorry. SPRINGER: Well, one last thing on education -- well, OK, we are out of time. Anyway.

BROWN: Well, that's OK. We are out of time. But come back when you make the decision. We will talk more about the issues. We appreciate your time.

SPRINGER: I appreciate that, Aaron. Yes, thank you.

BROWN: Thank you. Jerry Springer, it'll be an interesting campaign, if it happens, truly.

On to other things here, quickly. There are few people daring enough to put themselves right in the path a hurricane. Funny how they all seem to be miked up and ready or not for their live shot. Tonight, a tribute, a tribute, to the intrepid reporters who chased a hurricane all day today.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Here in Port Lavaca, Texas, we're starting to see some of the strongest and most intense rain so far from Hurricane Claudette.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The situation is going from bad to worse. The rain has ended, but the wind is getting even stronger. As you can see right here, (INAUDIBLE) even worse right now. We'll continue to bring you updates off and on all evening.

Power is out in the city of Port Lavaca right now. Authorities are urging everyone to stay indoors if they have not evacuated as of now. For now, Hurricane Claudette making her presence known in Port Lavaca, Texas.

You can see the rain and the wind now blowing here at Port O'Connor, some damage now to the homes. The rain really hurts so excuse me if I don't look at you while I talk.

RANDY TURNER, KTAB REPORTER: Four to 8 inches of rain expected, as Claudette continues to affect the Texas Gulf Coast.

Reporting for the KTAB first morning network forecast center chase team, this is Randy Turner.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're experiencing winds up to 80 miles per hour. It's becoming very difficult to even stand outside any longer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Definitely, this rain feels is like piercing needles

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right now, if you want to really see what this Claudette, what her fury is all about, is -- take a look at the gulf waters.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've already damaged our truck trying to open up the door in the wind. It was blowing so hard that we broke the axle on the door. It's been like this for about 30, 40 minutes. You can tell we are getting close to the center of the storm.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What are you guys doing?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Trying to secure that boat.

MARIANA STANLEY, NEWS 24 HOUSTON REPORTER: We were asked coming here to be extremely careful. Obviously, we will keep you guys updated as to what happens here in Surfside.

Mariana Stanley, News 24 Houston.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: My mother always told me, get inside work.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT: bringing together the actors in an American drama: James Meredith and the U.S. Marshals who walked him into Ole Miss, the University of Mississippi, 40 years ago.

A break first. This is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Forty years after the fact, it is still hard to comprehend the courage it took to do something we all take for granted today.

James Meredith simply wanted to go to college and he wanted to go to the University of Mississippi. But 40 years ago, the only people at Ole Miss who looked like James Meredith could be found sweeping the floors. And a lot of Mississippians didn't want to see that change back then. So the simple act of registering for class took enormous courage for one man and a lot of help from 127 federal Marshals, all of whom were recognized at the Justice Department today.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN (voice-over): Still feisty, still unvarnished, James Meredith was as frank as ever in the Great Hall of the Department of Justice.

JAMES MEREDITH, FORMER UNIVERSITY OF MISSISSIPPI STUDENT: The whole episode at Ole Miss had been an insult to me and my family.

BROWN: The occasion was the presentation of a commemorative medallion to the 30 or so surviving U.S. Marshals who guarded Meredith when he enrolled as the first African-American at the University of Mississippi, Ole miss, 40 years ago this fall.

JOHN ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL: We fulfilled a destiny that not only had marks of personal achievement, but it changed and improved a national community.

BROWN: There were 127 U.S. Marshals present 40 years ago at Ole Miss. Dozens were injured by white protesters, but not one Marshal fired a shot, on the orders of the then-attorney general, Robert F. Kennedy.

ASHCROFT: At the University of Mississippi, the Marshals defended one man's aspirations and the promise of our founding. Both James Meredith and the U.S. Marshals exhibited the kind of courage that sustains freedom.

BROWN: James Meredith was a man with a plan. He was 29, a veteran of Air Force when he registered. He was advised by a team of lawyers. He knew what he was doing and he knew what he wanted.

MEREDITH: Mississippi is the most important state, because it possess the richest soil of any land in the entire world. Equally, Mississippi's important, most important state, because it symbolizes the epitome of the only major issue the founding fathers did not know how to resolve, the race question, black and white.

BROWN: To James Meredith and his supporters, it was the last big battle of the Civil War.

MEREDITH: You've got to understand, the state of Mississippi was in rebellion. It had rebelled against the United States. Now, that's been a very difficult story for America to tell.

BROWN: Ole Miss is quiet today. It is not nearly the same place. But there is still a statue a Confederate soldier that has not been taken down. And the Confederate battle flag still flies, part of the Mississippi state flag. And for all the government protection James Meredith received, he remembers one thing, one moment, above all.

MEREDITH: I noticed in the hallway a black janitor. And I wondered why he was standing there. And he had a mop under his arm. And as I passed him, he turned his body, twisted his body, and touched me with the mop handle. Now, this delivered a message. And the message was clear: We are looking after you while you're here.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: James Meredith. Morning papers -- and interesting morning papers -- after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: OK. Time for morning papers from around the country and around the world.

I don't really know how to do this tonight. We begin with "The Chicago Sun-Times." They're playing the All-Star Game in Chicago, as you well know. And so, quite understandably, the headline in "The Sun-Times" has to do with that. Get a shot here: "Secret Weapon Brown Steals Show." Look at that shot. Man, is that cool? "CNN Anchor Preempts Lead Story in Chicago, Baseball's All-Star Game."

Look at that -- you guys didn't know... (ROOSTER CROWING)

BROWN: Thank you.

You didn't know I had arms like that, did you? Anyway, "The Chicago Sun-Times" is a little late with its front page, so they printed that up. And, by the way, this will not change when they get the actual picture. The weather tomorrow in Chicago is: humdinger. OK? That's going on the wall.

Now, you know that -- this isn't really a newspaper -- but you know that ad campaign against SUVs, What Would Jesus Drive? OK? So the Sports Utility Vehicles Owners of America, which I am sure is a lobbying group, has come out with an answer to that. What does Jesus, or in this case Jesus, drive? They found Jesus here. And Jesus owns an SUV. And they're running this ad. And I thought that was cool enough to put that on television. They asked him.

Anyway, everybody has a lobbying association, and so do SUVs. "The Oregonian" out in Portland, Oregon, puts the deficit at $455 billion, a record in dollar terms, on the front page. Down at the bottom, a story we like a lot: "Flag Football Proves Too Punishing For Prison." So they stopped playing flag football at Eastern Oregon Correctional Institution because too many of the inmates were getting hurt. They also have kind of a cool picture on the front page.

Speaking of cool pictures on the front page, "The Detroit Free Press," a very good front page. They put the deficit there, too, and the bailout, some local money. But look at that picture of an old building in Detroit that they are going to fix up. Isn't that cool?

That's a look at morning papers.

That's the program. We're all back here, oh, let's say, 10:00 Eastern time tomorrow. Hope you are, too.

Until then, good night for all of us at NEWSNIGHT.

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in Iraq Extended; Troubling Developments in North Korea>