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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown

U.S. Releases Photos of Qusay, Uday's Bodies; New Fedayeen Promises Revenge Attacks Against U.S. Troops; Recall Vote Date Set in California

Aired July 24, 2003 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Well, good evening everyone. You've probably seen the pictures already, maybe flinched a bit as well. The U.S. today put out the photos showing the bodies of Saddam Hussein's sons. As expected, they are gruesome.
The defense secretary was pretty blunt about the reasons for releasing them, and I quote: He said, "If it can save American lives I'm happy to have made the decision I made."

The U.S. is hoping to break the will of the people attacking American troops and whether it works or not there is no denying that they are still a mortal threat. In all the coverage about Uday and Qusay it should not be forgotten that five U.S. troops have been killed in the last two days alone.

So, the whip begins with the photos. Senior Pentagon Correspondent Jamie McIntyre leads our coverage tonight, Jamie the headline.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, as you said Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said it was his decision. He said it wasn't a snap decision but in the end it wasn't even a close call to release those pictures which he hopes will: a) help to save American lives; and, b) undercut the Iraqi resistance -- Anderson.

COOPER: More on that in a moment.

What Iraqis are saying about the photos, Nic Robertson is on that for us tonight from Baghdad, Nic the headline.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, it seems opinion is divided here whether or not these photographs conclusively prove whether Uday and Qusay are dead, also heard from a new organization calling themselves the New Fedayeen promising revenge attacks against U.S. troops -- Anderson.

COOPER: All right, the reaction in other parts of the Arab world now. Brent Sadler is in Beirut, Brent the headline.

BRENT SADLER, CNN BEIRUT BUREAU CHIEF: Anderson, the release of the death photographs has been the top story throughout the Middle East, observers saying that it doesn't really matter about the gory nature of the images. Arab mentality expected proof no matter how graphic that the two Hussein brothers are dead.

COOPER: Brent Sadler, we'll be back to you shortly.

To Sacramento, California now, the political uproar surrounding Governor Gray Davis, Candy Crowley is on that story once again, Candy the headline.

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, the California political system took another step today into the unknown, the unknowable, and the downright confusing. They have set a date for the recall vote on Governor Gray Davis.

COOPER: And a confusing vote it is. We'll be back to you, back with all of you in a moment.

Also coming up tonight, at long last the congressional report on 9/11 is released. We are going to look at some of the dots that went unconnected.

Also, Mahmoud Abbas is in Washington for the first time as Palestinian prime minister. Christiane Amanpour sat down with the prime minister ahead of his meeting with the president tomorrow. We're going to bring you some of her interview.

And, it is something we used to think about when we'd walk through Times Square, why isn't there a Red Lobster here? Well, now there is. We'll ask the burning question how could it have taken so long?

All that to come, we start off tonight with five casualties of war, five bodies, three belongs to the latest Americans to lose their lives in Iraq, the other two you've no doubt been seeing all day long.

Showing them doesn't sit easily with some. In addition to clashing with certain western ideas of war, even the Pentagon concedes that pumping the airwaves full of the bloody faces of Uday and Qusay might in the short run at least incite more attacks but the war is not being fought on western turf and the Pentagon says that the decision today was made with the long haul in mind.

Here again, CNN's Jamie McIntyre.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE (voice-over): Defense Secretary Rumsfeld says it was not a snap decision to release these pictures of Saddam Hussein's dead sons but after weighting their gruesome nature against the possible good they might do, Rumsfeld says it wasn't a close call.

DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: I honestly believe that these two are particularly bad characters and that it's important for the Iraqi people to see them, to know they're gone, to know they're dead, and to know they're not coming back.

MCINTYRE: The photos show both brothers grew beards, apparently to alter their appearance. While some Iraqis question whether the bloated and scarred faces are really Uday and Qusay, the U.S. also released x-rays which it says shows injuries that match those Uday suffered in a 1996 assassination attempt.

The U.S. hopes the grisly images will dishearten the insurgents, dampen their recruiting efforts, and shape loose more leads in the hunt for Saddam Hussein. And, while the U.S. has protested angrily when its enemies have displayed dead American soldiers, such as in Somalia in 1993, Pentagon officials draw a distinction between dead soldiers and dead dictators.

RUMSFELD: I think that will save American lives and save coalition lives and be a great benefit to the Iraqi people to be free of that and I feel it was the right decision and I'm glad I made it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE: In order to overcome the skepticism of the average Iraqi, the U.S. government has also granted the request of Iraq's new governing council to allow them to see the bodies firsthand. The hope is that Iraqis will believe what they hear from other Iraqis even if they don't trust the United States -- Anderson.

COOPER: And, Jamie, I understand they're going to be doing DNA testing as well. I'd also heard some reports, at least yesterday, about the possibility of news agencies being allowed to separately photograph or videotape the bodies. Is that still in play?

MCINTYRE: I have not heard that that's under consideration and so I really can't say.

COOPER: OK, and any sense on how long the DNA testing might take if, in fact, they still feel that's necessary?

MCINTYRE: Well, they don't actually feel it's necessary. They feel between the dental records that they used, the various people who are familiar with them, including Tariq Aziz and also Saddam Hussein's personal bodyguard, both have identified them conclusively and the x- rays that we saw that match the injuries that Uday was known to have, they believe they have a positive identification. To the extent they do DNA testing, it will just be to absolutely answer every question.

COOPER: All right, Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon thank you very much.

To Iraq itself now, where it may take more than photographs to make the case that Uday and Qusay aren't only merely dead but really most sincerely dead.

CNN's Nic Robertson filed this report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON (voice-over): In Baghdad's cafes, division over whether or not the pictures prove the brothers are dead.

"The pictures are true" he says "but the Americans should have talked them into surrendering so we could judge them."

"I'm not convinced" this man says. "The two brothers wouldn't risk being in the same place."

At a nearby Internet cafe, more dispute over the pictures.

"I think it's a fabrication" he says, "a fabrication by the American CIA."

"If it's true they're dead" this man says, "I believe it will be the end of Saddam's remnants."

On coalition-run Iraqi television less graphic black and white images aired. At Iraqi newspapers, more widely available here than television, consensus that most Iraqis are not likely to believe the coalition.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All the U.S. performances are planned by George W. Bush. Before the start of the war could it be met by the coalition forces.

ROBERTSON: For a former doctor of Uday and Qusay appearing on a satellite channel watched here no doubt the pair are dead.

SALAH AL SHEMRI, FORMER HUSSEIN DOCTOR (through translator): The pictures of Uday and Qusay are 100 percent accurate.

ROBERTSON: Possibly the most convincing argument for Iraqis that the brothers are dead coming from the so-called New Fedayeen fighters in a taped statement delivered to another Arab broadcaster seen in Iraq.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): To the occupiers who said last evening the killing of Uday and Qusay would decrease the attacks on the invaders, we want to say to them that the deaths of Uday and Qusay will increase the attacks on the soldiers.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON: In the latest attack against U.S. soldiers, three soldiers died in a gun and grenade attack and, perhaps what's very significant about this, not only is it the bloodiest attack against U.S. troops since the end of the war, it occurred not far from Mosul where Uday and Qusay were killed, perhaps an indication here that this Fedayeen organization is making good on its statements here -- Anderson.

COOPER: Nic, are you hearing anything from U.S. officials in Iraq about concern? I mean some of the people in your piece were saying, you know, they simply don't believe those are real photographs or do U.S. officials kind of think those people are never going to believe anything they have to say?

ROBERTSON: I think there's an element of that, Anderson. The coalition provisional authority here knows that there are people they're just not going to win over. I think it's perhaps becoming clear here that by putting these pictures out has reassured a lot of people who may have still had questions in their minds, help swing them over.

And, in the long run, it's likely going to be the right thing for the coalition to do and there are people they know they'll never convince. They know they need to do a lot more, a lot more on social security issues but this probably from what we've seen probably the right thing to do.

COOPER: And from what you're hearing from the U.S. military are they satisfied with how the operation went down and, I ask this because I suppose as they look forward to the possibility of getting Saddam Hussein, I'm wondering would they go about it the same way or would they perhaps make more of an effort, if it was even a possibility, to capture him alive?

ROBERTSON: There's certainly a school of thought among Iraqis here it would be much better to have him caught alive but the coalition has said all along it's a kill or capture mission for Saddam Hussein. How do they weight that in the final analysis? Would he choose to shoot it out? Would he be in a fortified house? Would they catch him by surprise? Probably all of these different elements would factor into it.

What we're noticing here there have been ongoing raids in Mosul, ongoing raids in Tikrit. We get -- the picture begins to emerge here as if the coalition is trying to close down all the bolt holes, all the friends, all the former allies that Saddam Hussein may have had limiting the places he may go and hide so perhaps by this way getting closer to him by flushing him out -- Anderson.

COOPER: All right, let's hope so. Nic Robertson thanks very much.

A little bit more now on the reception in other parts of the Arab world, it's a story that always comes with a footnote. There is no single Arab street. We all know that. There are many but in each from Casablanca to Qatar the big story today was the same even if the opinions and the coverage differed, a small sampling tonight from CNN's Brent Sadler.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SADLER (voice-over): In the Arab world, viewers appear to have expected nothing less from their television channels, the full gory details through close-up images of the bodies of Saddam Hussein's top lieutenants, his sons Uday and Qusay.

GEBRAN TUFNI, PUBLISHER, AN NAHAR: In the Arab mentality the end of the regime is a dead person, a death penalty. The Iraqi people, even some Arabs needed to see this too.

SADLER: And seeing is believing.

TUFNI: Everybody is going to do what we are doing now, to look at the pictures, to look at it again and they're being more and more convinced.

SADLER (on camera): Convincing skeptical and often scared Iraqis is what the photo release is all about. Here in Beirut, as in many other Arab capitals, it's the top news story some commentators saying Saddam Hussein's left and right hands are shown to be cut off now that the Americans have provided photographic proof the two sons are dead.

(voice-over): Syrian television briefly referred to the corpses while Hezbollah's Al-Manar channel in Beirut gave a straight news report. Abu Dhabi satellite TV included details of the $30 million reward a camera shy informant should collect, while Al-Arabiya broadcast from Dubai also focused on a statement by Saddam Fedayeen, once led by Uday threatening more attacks on U.S. troops.

Some Middle East new chiefs now expect that if Saddam Hussein is still alive he may try to prove it by sending out a new tape recording.

SAMER HAMZEH, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF: I'm waiting to see that. I'm waiting to see the reaction. Will the attacks on the American Army in Iraq will be reduced or will they decrease or increase? I don't know.

SADLER: Nor does anyone else.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SADLER: Some observers in this region also say the photographs may have dealt a serious psychological blow to Saddam Hussein assuming he's still alive and destroyed any hopes he might have had that his two sons could somehow help restore power to Saddam Hussein's tribal group. The photographs could also encourage other reward hunters to turn Saddam Hussein in wherever he might be hiding -- Anderson.

COOPER: Brent, it's interesting listening to your report. It differs from Nic Robertson in that it seems like a lot of people inside Iraq or, at least some people inside Iraq seem to be debating whether or not the photos are real by and large. From what I'm hearing from you, at least from the coverage from all these different Arab networks is they seem to accept it as real.

SADLER: Yes, a widespread assumption in the way it was reported, in the way we've heard newscasters present those reports that no real level of proof that any skepticism that the Iraqis clearly have is being expressed widely across the way this story is being presented in the Middle East. Certainly, everybody I've spoken to here in the Lebanese capital tonight certainly believe they've seen he corpses of Saddam Hussein's two sons.

COOPER: Interesting, Brent Sadler thanks very much for that report.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, we'll try to decipher the California governor recall. Just how will it work and who will actually be on the ballot? Candy Crowley has that story.

And later, what happens when Middle America comes to the middle of New York? Do I smell lobster? Be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Well, last year, California Governor Gray Davis was embroiled in one of the roughest campaigns of his political career. This year, on the other hand, he'll be embroiled in one of the roughest campaigns of his political career.

A recall petition will do that to you. Tonight, the recall election is on. The date is set and Californians are getting ready for an October to remember and it will be.

Here again, CNN's Candy Crowley.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CROWLEY (voice-over): Wearing his best what-me-worry face, the governor of California did governor business Thursday trying not to talk about that other business which is, of course, impossible.

GOV. GRAY DAVIS (D), CALIFORNIA: I'm going to get my job done the most important part of which is passing a budget and then if the people want me to present my credentials, and apparently they do one more time, I'm going to present my credentials.

CROWLEY: He remains California's iceman, coolly dismissive of the attempt to vote him out of the office he was reelected to just eight months ago and yet the oncoming train keeps coming on.

LT. GOV. CRUZ BUSTAMANTE, CALIFORNIA: The date that I've decided to choose for this election is Tuesday, October 7th.

CROWLEY: Yikes, 76 days, so little time, so much potential for disaster. The secretary of state has to mail informational pamphlets to 15 million registered voters. Fifty-eight counties have to find 25,000 voting locations. They also need to recruit 100,000 poll workers and, oh yes, some counties need new voting machines. Hear those alarm bells? So does the state's top election official.

KEVIN SHELLEY, CALIFORNIA SECRETARY OF STATE: No one obviously wants a Florida-type election in California and I certainly don't want that on my watch as secretary of state. It's a challenge.

CROWLEY: Beyond the logistical threat there are the political machinations. Step one for Democrats, the dire warning.

BUSTAMANTE: It wouldn't surprise me one bit that the other side has a recall of whoever wins this election.

CROWLEY: The specter of California locked in eternal election cycle is not the ringing endorsement you might think the lieutenant governor would give the governor but the Democratic duo are, how to put this, not close which is to say they haven't spoken in several months. Still, Cruz Bustamante, thought to covet the top job, will not put his name on the ballot. No Democrat is expected to.

BUSTAMANTE: Others are going to have to decide themselves but, for me, I think it's the best thing for me.

CROWLEY: But for Democrats do you think it is for all Democrats to stay off except for Gray Davis?

BUSTAMANTE: I think it's a winning formula.

CROWLEY: The save Gray Davis formula is to give heavily Democratic California no alternative to Davis except Republicans, a tough choice for even the most disgruntled Democrat and the way to frame the recall as a crass overreach by Republicans who can't win the old-fashioned way.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CROWLEY: Still, some Democrats privately worry that Gray Davis may have alienated enough of his base that they prefer a Republican candidate and for precisely that reason Republicans believe that it's possible a Democrat may get into this race sooner rather than later -- back to you Anderson.

COOPER: But, Candy, as you said in your piece, yikes. I'm not even sure where to begin with this. When do the other potential candidates, the Republican challengers if, in fact, no Democrats do decide to run, when do they have to sign up by?

CROWLEY: In early August. They don't have a lot of time but then this has been coming for a while. I mean they say this train coming down the track but right now state Republican Party leaders tell us that they've sort of put out the word to the Republicans who voiced some interest in this, look, don't go make it official right now because they do suspect that a Democrat might get in and what they'd like to do, at least the state Republican Party would like to do, is maybe see if they can't winnow down the field if a Democrat jumps in because they'll have a stronger road that way.

COOPER: Understood. All right, Candy Crowley thanks very much.

More now on the maneuvering, political, legal, and otherwise between now and the 7th of October, we're joined tonight by Gary Delsohn of the "Sacramento Bee." Gary thanks for joining us. Welcome to NEWSNIGHT.

GARY DELSOHN, "SACRAMENTO BEE": Thank you, my pleasure.

COOPER: Does Gray Davis have any hope? I mean where does he go from here? Does he start swinging?

DELSOHN: Well, I think he's already doing that. He's in full campaign mode really. He's comfortable campaigning. He announced the creation of a campaign team today. Most of the polls show that I think 48 to 51 percent, somewhere in that range favor a recall and so he's got a fighting chance and he's tenacious. He's a fighter.

COOPER: And the strategy that he's going to fight with is?

DELSOHN: Well, he's already portraying this as kind of a right wing extremist move to take over the governorship, you know, take it back after the last election, sour grapes. It's going to cost the state between $30 million and $60 million to stage the election. He's highlighting that in light of the budget problems so these are the kinds of things I think he'll be highlighting.

COOPER: Candy mentioned Republican strategy might be try to winnow down any potential candidates, at least try to get at least one Republican candidate out there so as not to divide the vote. Is that possible?

DELSOHN: I think that's what they'd like to do but I don't know that it's possible. I mean there's a lot of speculation, obviously, as you all know on Arnold Schwarzenegger, Richard Riordan former mayor of -- pardon? Didn't hear you?

You know so it's -- Bill Simon who was the losing candidate in last year's election for the Republicans, sounds like he's going to get in. There's a number of Republicans who are talking about it and thinking about it. It remains to be seen. They have until August 9 at the end of -- 5:00 p.m. that Saturday to declare their candidacy and file the papers.

COOPER: Well, do you think it is likely, though, that the Democrats at least will close ranks behind Gray Davis and no Democrat will step forward to run?

DELSOHN: Right now they're closing ranks behind him. You know all the Democrats that would have expected maybe to or that want to run in the future have said they won't run this time. Assembly Democrats today got together and voted unanimously to oppose the recall and they categorized it as a right-wing extremist attempt to hijack the governorship.

Right now the Democrats are closing ranks but I think, you know, it depends maybe on the numbers what the polls look like. There's a lot of -- there could be pressure on somebody like Senator Feinstein or someone else to get in if Davis looks like a loser.

The last thing they want is to lose this to the Republicans in this manner but I think they're, you know, right now they're going to wait and see and they're behind the governor even though he's not necessarily on the best of terms with a lot of potential Democrats who could run.

COOPER: I think a lot of people nationally are sort of waiting and seeing on this sort of just stunned at it all. Do you think there is going to be a lot of national involvement either from the parties at large or individual groups?

DELSOHN: Well, so far we haven't seen any. I think the White House seems to be staying clear of it, at least in a visible manner. I mean this is such a bizarre kind of uncharted territory that nobody really knows how it's going to play out, what the ramifications long term will be for either party.

You know, I think people seem to be taking the attitude that this is California's peculiar problem and will stay out of it. That could change but right now we haven't seen any evidence that it will yet.

COOPER: Gray Davis is known as a pretty tough campaigner.

DELSOHN: There's no question. I mean I talked to somebody who is close to him about a week ago. He said he's more lighthearted and light of spirit than he's seen him in months. He likes the campaign. He likes the fight. I'm sure he'd rather be doing other things and not being put through this -- a recall. It's kind of humiliating and difficult but he's a tenacious guy.

As he said, you know, he's been written off many times politically in his career. He knows how to campaign. He may not be the most charismatic campaigner but he does know how to push the buttons that people seem to respond to and he wins, you know.

He has won the elections that he's run in, so I think anybody who knows him, and even the Republicans who are being honest with you will tell you that it's a mistake to write him off or sell him short or underestimate him.

COOPER: All right, Gary Delsohn good to actually talk to you. Welcome to NEWSNIGHT and we'll talk to you again no doubt.

Coming up on NEWSNIGHT, the report on September 11 is out, what is shows and what it does not as NEWSNIGHT continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Well, it doesn't seem fitting that today's congressional report on 9/11 became buried in the rest of today's headlines. The report lays out in painful detail the failures that led to so many lives being lost and set the country on a path to wars in two countries so far.

Depending on who in Washington you ask it either amounts to the proverbial smoking gun or not. Some would say it hardly matters. If there isn't enough in the report to make a compelling case that 9/11 could have been averted there is still plenty there to raise a chill and plenty to break your heart.

Here's CNN's Jonathan Karl.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JONATHAN KARL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The reports says the intelligence community blew its best chance to prevent the September 11 attacks when more than a year earlier two of the hijackers came into an extensive contact with an FBI informant in San Diego.

"The informant's contacts with the hijackers, had they been capitalized on, would have given the San Diego FBI Field Office perhaps the intelligence community's best chance to unravel the September 11 plot."

The problem, although the CIA knew since early 2000 that the two future hijackers, Khalid Almidhar and Nawaf Alhazmi had ties to al Qaeda, the agency didn't tell the FBI until three weeks before September 11, and even then the FBI Headquarters didn't tell its San Diego Field Office.

SEN. RICHARD SHELBY (R-AL), FORMER CHMN. INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: I believe if all of the information had been put together before September the 11th, and if it were fused and acted upon, maybe things would change -- would have changed.

KARL: The report concludes that parts of the intelligence community simply did not take the threat of an attack on U.S. soil seriously enough. Former anti-terror official Richard Clark told the committee that a year before the attacks: "I visited five or six of the field offices and asked them what they were doing about al Qaeda. I got sort of blank looks of what is al Qaeda?"

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), MINORITY LEADER: Al Qaeda was better at planning the attacks and keeping their plans secret than the United States government was in uncovering them.

KARL: Yet, since 1998, U.S. intelligence was picking up repeated indications that Osama bin Laden wanted to strike within the United States. One unspecified intelligence report indicated in December, 1998, that an al Qaeda member was: "Planning operations against U.S. targets, plans to hijack U.S. aircraft proceeding well. Two individuals (names censored) had successfully evaded checkpoints in a dry run at a New York airport."

(on camera): Much of the report is censored, including an entire section that deals with sources of foreign support for some of the hijackers.

Sources familiar with the censored material say that it includes evidence that members of the Saudi royal family provided assistance for some of the hijackers. It is a charge that Saudi Arabia vehemently denies.

(voice-over): The report also says that inadequate intelligence prevented effective action on an open presidential order to strike Osama bin Laden. U.S. cruise missile attacks on Sudan and Afghanistan in August 1998 were the only military attempts against al Qaeda before September 11.

SEN. BOB GRAHAM (D-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The report confirms that, between 1999 and 2001, we did not get spies close enough to him to tell us where he would be on any given day.

KARL: The military and the CIA were reluctant to act without better intelligence. As one former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff told the committee, "You can develop military operations until hell freezes over, but they are worthless without intelligence."

Jonathan Karl, CNN, Capitol Hill.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Well, we wanted to get another view now.

Elaine Shannon is the national security reporter for "TIME" magazine. She joins us tonight from Washington.

Elaine, good to see you.

ELAINE SHANNON, "TIME": Good evening.

COOPER: So I suppose there is plenty to say: no smoking gun, but certainly lots of missed opportunities.

SHANNON: Absolutely.

And it is heartbreaking. Many times, many of us sit next to somebody on a train and we -- who knows what that person really is. And this is how, over and over, it is described. Yes, the FBI informant in San Diego lived with these two guys who turned out to be hijackers for a spell. The FBI says he recognized their names -- they were living under their own names -- when, after 9/11, their names were publicized.

But the names were in another place. They were in NSA and CIA databases. And the field office didn't know that and didn't know to tell him, didn't even know to look in the phone book for these guys.

COOPER: Yes, and we're talking about these two hijackers, al- Mihdhar and al-Hazmi. And it is a case -- one branch of the government kind of knew about them. The other one sort of saw them as well. But it seemed like they never communicated with each other.

SHANNON: Right.

And, also, they didn't have any red flags on them. These are leaders. These are managers of terrorist units.

COOPER: And that was because the CIA basically failed to put them on the watch list, is that correct?

SHANNON: Right.

And George Tenet said that, to his credit, in the hearings last year. There is a lot of this material that, if you have no life and you've spent all your time reading everything there is to read about these guys, you would know. But it is wonderful to have it in one place, where, if you are a serious student of history and public policy, you can really go over it and think about how the government might run things better.

COOPER: Peter Bergen, a security expert, said to me, it wasn't so much a failure of intelligence; it was a failure of imagination. Do you agree with that?

SHANNON: Yes.

You see so many places where people just seem like they had novocaine in their brains. They knew certain things. They knew that, here is our calls going to bad guys. And yet, well, the person wasn't wearing a big badge that said: terrorist leader, very dangerous. And so they somehow didn't spread the information around. You see now, after 9/11, that the government has a hair trigger. And any little wisp of information, they all say. They spread it around instantly. And some of it, of course, leaks. So we know that.

COOPER: Beyond the document that will be studied by government analysts and students of government, how does this thing get used from here on out in terms of -- will it be politicized? Will there be finger-pointing? Of course there will be. Will it be effective finger-pointing. I guess there is plenty in there that the Bush administration, if they wanted to, or Republicans, could use to point against the Clinton administration.

SHANNON: Oh, yes.

The report talks about how budgets for the intelligence community for these purposes went down after 1992. But then, of course, the Democrats will say, well President Bush won the election. He came in, and then what happened until September? It seems to be a very bad transition there.

COOPER: How surprised were you, as someone who follows this stuff extraordinarily closely, that this large section that was basically censored, which reportedly deals with foreign involvement and, in particular, it is alleged, a lot of Saudi involvement?

SHANNON: Well, that's not surprising at all, because, historically, our government guards its relationships with certain governments, particularly governments that we need for information or for trade or to have our military there and who are very sensitive. We guard those very jealously.

And so the administration basically let the CIA and the FBI and NSA take their lumps, because they're fair game. But they really didn't want the Saudis and probably some other governments to get criticized very heavily in the public press.

COOPER: All right, Elaine Shannon, "TIME" magazine, thanks very much for joining us.

SHANNON: Thank you.

COOPER: All right.

And still to come on NEWSNIGHT: one way to get from Cuba to Florida. You can drive, as some Cubans tried to do. We'll have details on that in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: All right, starting off our "National Roundup" tonight: the latest on the case of the missing Baylor University basketball player Patrick Dennehy, still missing. His parents spoke out today and said they're holding out hope their son is alive. Dennehy's former teammate, Carlton Dotson, is being held on a charge of killing Dennehy. Police still have not found the body. Now, while his parents consider Dennehy missing, they did begin the process of packing up his apartment.

Chilling testimony today involving the accused teenage sniper Lee Malvo. A Maryland prison guard said that Malvo told him he planned to shoot a bus full of kids. The goal, Malvo allegedly told him, was to upset the man who was the Montgomery County police chief during the sniper shootings, Charles Moose. And the testimony came during a hearing over the statements Malvo made in jail and whether they could be used at his trial.

And a new security routine began at City Hall in New York today. Mayor Michael Bloomberg, right there, went through a metal detector, something that he and the city council members were exempt from doing until yesterday's deadly shooting. Councilman James Davis bypassed the metal detect, along with a political rival who later shot and killed him before he was shot and killed by police.

And a few stories from around the world now, starting with a typhoon in southern China. It is the strongest to hit the region in seven years, with winds that reach 115 miles an hour. At least 11 people were hurt in Hong Kong after 10 or more were killed when the typhoon hit earlier in the Philippines.

Take a look at this. No, that is not your grandfather's Chevy there. This is how a group of ingenious Cubans tried to flee to the U.S., by driving there. They were doing eight miles per hour when they were pulled over by the U.S. Coast Guard 40 miles from Key West. They used oil drums to make the '51 Chevy float. For all their pluck, they were still sent back to Cuba.

And the title of the documentary says it all, doesn't it? "James Hewitt: Confessions of a Cad." James Hewitt is the former British army major who had a love affair with the late Princess Diana. The documentary reveals plenty of salacious details and shows Hewitt trying to sell her letters to him. Diana's former butler says Hewitt is no mere cad. He is also -- quote -- "a rat, slimeball, disgrace and snake" -- end quote.

Well, later, on NEWSNIGHT, all you wanna-be Carrie Bradshaws out there, the hottest, newest spot in all of Manhattan, just look for the giant lobster.

Also, the Palestinian prime minister comes to the U.S. for talks. And our Christiane Amanpour talked to him tonight. We'll have the interview in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Well, safe to say that Mahmoud Abbas has one of the tougher jobs on planet Earth. He's in Washington for the first time as the Palestinian prime minister.

And he's under enormous pressure from all different sides. The U.S. and Israel want him to do more to disarm terrorists. His own people expect him to press hard for bigger concessions from Israel and for more support from the U.S. The prime minister meets with President Bush tomorrow.

And, tonight, Christiane Amanpour had the chance to sit down with him.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Mr. Prime minister, first of all, thank you very much for joining us.

You're here to have an important meeting with President Bush and members of the administration. What specifically are you going to ask President Bush for in order to meet the goals of the road map?

MAHMOUD ABBAS, PALESTINIAN PRIME MINISTER (through translator): I would like him to work on convincing, persuading, Israel to freeze settlement activity and to stop building the wall and, as I mentioned, to convince them to release the prisoners, because this is an issue of high sensitivity to us.

These are the issues that we want. And we have explained these positions in Sharm el-Sheikh and in Aqaba. And I have explained them to Secretary Powell and to Dr. Condoleezza Rice. So I believe they have a clear idea of what it is. And the president in Aqaba had indicated clearly on the issue of the settlements, as well as the prisoners.

AMANPOUR: If you go back without that commitment, for instance, on the prisoners and the settlements and the war, what reception will you get and what will it mean for your political future, your own future?

ABBAS (through translator): I believe that frustration will be all over the Palestinian lands, because they expect us to bring these solutions, these results.

Everybody is prepared to move forward with the peace process through the road map. However, if they are to feel that there is no response or no commitment on the American side -- and I hope this will not happen -- then the situation would be quite difficult and I and my government will be in a very difficult situation, because we have committed ourselves to implement this and we have started implementing it. And it is not acceptable that the other side would not do it. So the situation would get worse.

AMANPOUR: You have said that you would judge the Israeli Prime Minister Sharon by his actions. How do you judge his actions in terms of implementing his obligations under the road map since the Aqaba summit seven weeks ago?

ABBAS (through translator): No commitment has been done, except the withdrawal in Gaza and the city of Bethlehem.

However, the withdrawal from Gaza was not complete, as were -- the withdrawal from Bethlehem was only from the inner part of the city. But the borders of the city are still closed off. And the people are living under very bad conditions, because they say the withdrawal has ended from within the city, but is still around the city.

That is what Mr. Sharon has done. And I had asked him in my third and fourth meeting with him after Aqaba to implement those, especially regarding the prisoners, the wall and the settlements. However, as of this moment, I have not gotten a response and have not seen anything on the ground.

AMANPOUR: The Israelis also say that you haven't fulfilled your part of the bargain, which is to dismantle the so-called terrorist infrastructures. You prefer not to confront them, but try to, I think, bring them into the process and convince them to cease-fire. Is that still your strategy? And how do you think the Americans will respond to your strategy on that?

ABBAS (through translator): We -- before having reached the accord regarding the cease-fire with the Palestinian factions, we have spoken to Prime Minister Sharon in detail and President Bush. And I have informed them of our point of view on this issue and our capabilities to fulfill and implement that.

And, of course, there was Israeli opposition and American opposition to the word cease-fire. However, in the end, I do not know if they have been convinced. However, they have not objected to that ever since. This is something that we brought forth. And we brought forth those organizations on their own convictions, convinced that, by making them feel responsible -- in other words, there is an accord between us and those organizations.

However, these -- this accord, we have expressed to them quite clearly that it is very important to respect the rule of law in the country and to get rid of the use of weapons and that we will implement the law on anyone who violates it. And we are doing so.

AMANPOUR: There is a lot of pessimism and some skepticism about your own popularity with the Palestinian people and your ability to deliver, in terms of improving their lives and delivering the road map and other agreements. How are you going to overcome that skepticism?

ABBAS (through translator): I think, yes, maybe I was not a very popular leader, a leader in the -- it is not about me.

However, people know that I'm a man of my word and I say the same thing to everyone. And I believe, given my capabilities, what I'll try to do for the people by making results on the ground, the more they will appreciate me, the more we realize -- the more they will accept me. And if we don't, then they will not.

AMANPOUR: And, finally, I understand from -- I've heard that you're going to show President Bush a map in your meeting tomorrow. Why?

ABBAS (through translator): It is very important to make people really see what we're talking about when we refer to the settlements, to the wall of separation, regarding the checkpoints that exist in the West Bank, which are -- which number more than 160. These things have to be concrete in front of the eyes of the president. We don't want to talk about these things in the void. It is necessary for him to see the maps to reinforce what we are talking about, so he can see those issues that we are suffering from. I believe that this is beneficial to us and to the president.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Well, if you'd like to see the complete interview with Prime Minister Abbas, it can be seen tomorrow morning at 5:00 a.m. Eastern time here on CNN.

Still ahead tonight on NEWSNIGHT: the attack of the killer lobsters. What happens when they hit Manhattan? Get the butter.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(ROOSTER CROWING)

COOPER: Like I always say, I love that morning magazine segment.

Anyway, New York is a beacon for chow hounds the world over. Now, this is the city where you can find Ukrainian meatballs, Korean barbecue or a maybe Turkish kabob all in the span of a few blocks. And now, at the crossroads of the world, you can find the exotic delights of another far-flung locale: strip-mall-istan.

Once confined only to the rarest patch out on Route 5 or Interstate 94, some of the cuisine of strip-mall-istan can be found at a brand new restaurant in Times Square, already well known to foodies as the Red Lobster.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER (voice-over): New York's great white way is proud to present the newest production on Broadway.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, let's have a great day. Think about, our No. 1 job is to make people feel good, OK? Make people feel good. Have a great show. The curtain's rising.

COOPER: But this is no theater. And these are not actors. Well, they may want to be actors, but, right now, they're waiters.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello. Hello.

COOPER: Welcome to Times Squares' newest attraction, a three- story, 400-seat Red Lobster restaurant, the first and only Red Lobster in New York City.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Times Square is the crossroads of the world. Millions of people from around the world visit here every week, every day, every year. We kind of see this as our billboard to America.

COOPER: Ten thousand people applied to work at this Red Lobster. Some 300 were chosen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My job is to make you feel at home.

COOPER: And all of them seem like very, very perky people.

JONATHAN ANDERSON, WAITER: It is like being as energetic as possible. Am I over the top? Is my energy there? Am I making you feel like I'm treating you as No. 1 guest, No. 1 person, just as if you're feeling like you're just total, there is nobody else, and it is just all about you?

GRETCHEN BIEBER, WAITRESS: I guess they saw in me some sort of energy and upbeatness, that I just -- basically, I'll do whatever it takes for Red Lobster to keep the quality that they need for all of our guests.

COOPER: The folks at Red Lobster have come up with a new marketing campaign: Share the love. That's the slogan, fitting, perhaps, for Times Square, where, in days gone by, a lot of love was shared in peep shows and porn palaces. Times Square has seen plenty of crabs. Perhaps it is finally ready for this red crustacean.

JEFF TATTERSALL, GENERAL MANAGER: The breaking of the shell is a metaphor for human connection, as people seek to breakthrough the outer shell. And seafood is traditionally shareable seafood, the shrimp, cracking of the lobster, passing it around. It kind of brings everybody together. It is our way in the seafood to bring everybody together to share the love.

COOPER: What? Let's hear that one again.

TATTERSALL: The breaking of the shell is a metaphor for human connection, as people...

COOPER: Wow, lobster as metaphor. These people don't mess around.

Anyway, the place is packed and the customers seem happy.

DEBBIE DOWELL, CUSTOMER: There is something about getting into your food with your hands that, it is a little more down home.

COOPER: But this is New York. And not everyone is so thrilled.

JOE QUEENAN, AUTHOR, "RED LOBSTER: WHITE TRASH AND THE BLUE LAGOON": Eating in a Red Lobster in New York City is like going to the Louvre to see paintings of dogs playing poker.

COOPER: Well, New Yorkers are survivors. They survived King Kong, after all. No doubt, they'll survive the Red Lobster, too.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Mmm, lobster.

That's about it for us here on NEWSNIGHT. Join me tomorrow night at 7:00 for a full hour-long look at the day's top stories. And I'll be back on NEWSNIGHT tomorrow night as well.

Good night.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





Promises Revenge Attacks Against U.S. Troops; Recall Vote Date Set in California>


Aired July 24, 2003 - 22:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Well, good evening everyone. You've probably seen the pictures already, maybe flinched a bit as well. The U.S. today put out the photos showing the bodies of Saddam Hussein's sons. As expected, they are gruesome.
The defense secretary was pretty blunt about the reasons for releasing them, and I quote: He said, "If it can save American lives I'm happy to have made the decision I made."

The U.S. is hoping to break the will of the people attacking American troops and whether it works or not there is no denying that they are still a mortal threat. In all the coverage about Uday and Qusay it should not be forgotten that five U.S. troops have been killed in the last two days alone.

So, the whip begins with the photos. Senior Pentagon Correspondent Jamie McIntyre leads our coverage tonight, Jamie the headline.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, as you said Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said it was his decision. He said it wasn't a snap decision but in the end it wasn't even a close call to release those pictures which he hopes will: a) help to save American lives; and, b) undercut the Iraqi resistance -- Anderson.

COOPER: More on that in a moment.

What Iraqis are saying about the photos, Nic Robertson is on that for us tonight from Baghdad, Nic the headline.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, it seems opinion is divided here whether or not these photographs conclusively prove whether Uday and Qusay are dead, also heard from a new organization calling themselves the New Fedayeen promising revenge attacks against U.S. troops -- Anderson.

COOPER: All right, the reaction in other parts of the Arab world now. Brent Sadler is in Beirut, Brent the headline.

BRENT SADLER, CNN BEIRUT BUREAU CHIEF: Anderson, the release of the death photographs has been the top story throughout the Middle East, observers saying that it doesn't really matter about the gory nature of the images. Arab mentality expected proof no matter how graphic that the two Hussein brothers are dead.

COOPER: Brent Sadler, we'll be back to you shortly.

To Sacramento, California now, the political uproar surrounding Governor Gray Davis, Candy Crowley is on that story once again, Candy the headline.

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, the California political system took another step today into the unknown, the unknowable, and the downright confusing. They have set a date for the recall vote on Governor Gray Davis.

COOPER: And a confusing vote it is. We'll be back to you, back with all of you in a moment.

Also coming up tonight, at long last the congressional report on 9/11 is released. We are going to look at some of the dots that went unconnected.

Also, Mahmoud Abbas is in Washington for the first time as Palestinian prime minister. Christiane Amanpour sat down with the prime minister ahead of his meeting with the president tomorrow. We're going to bring you some of her interview.

And, it is something we used to think about when we'd walk through Times Square, why isn't there a Red Lobster here? Well, now there is. We'll ask the burning question how could it have taken so long?

All that to come, we start off tonight with five casualties of war, five bodies, three belongs to the latest Americans to lose their lives in Iraq, the other two you've no doubt been seeing all day long.

Showing them doesn't sit easily with some. In addition to clashing with certain western ideas of war, even the Pentagon concedes that pumping the airwaves full of the bloody faces of Uday and Qusay might in the short run at least incite more attacks but the war is not being fought on western turf and the Pentagon says that the decision today was made with the long haul in mind.

Here again, CNN's Jamie McIntyre.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE (voice-over): Defense Secretary Rumsfeld says it was not a snap decision to release these pictures of Saddam Hussein's dead sons but after weighting their gruesome nature against the possible good they might do, Rumsfeld says it wasn't a close call.

DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: I honestly believe that these two are particularly bad characters and that it's important for the Iraqi people to see them, to know they're gone, to know they're dead, and to know they're not coming back.

MCINTYRE: The photos show both brothers grew beards, apparently to alter their appearance. While some Iraqis question whether the bloated and scarred faces are really Uday and Qusay, the U.S. also released x-rays which it says shows injuries that match those Uday suffered in a 1996 assassination attempt.

The U.S. hopes the grisly images will dishearten the insurgents, dampen their recruiting efforts, and shape loose more leads in the hunt for Saddam Hussein. And, while the U.S. has protested angrily when its enemies have displayed dead American soldiers, such as in Somalia in 1993, Pentagon officials draw a distinction between dead soldiers and dead dictators.

RUMSFELD: I think that will save American lives and save coalition lives and be a great benefit to the Iraqi people to be free of that and I feel it was the right decision and I'm glad I made it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE: In order to overcome the skepticism of the average Iraqi, the U.S. government has also granted the request of Iraq's new governing council to allow them to see the bodies firsthand. The hope is that Iraqis will believe what they hear from other Iraqis even if they don't trust the United States -- Anderson.

COOPER: And, Jamie, I understand they're going to be doing DNA testing as well. I'd also heard some reports, at least yesterday, about the possibility of news agencies being allowed to separately photograph or videotape the bodies. Is that still in play?

MCINTYRE: I have not heard that that's under consideration and so I really can't say.

COOPER: OK, and any sense on how long the DNA testing might take if, in fact, they still feel that's necessary?

MCINTYRE: Well, they don't actually feel it's necessary. They feel between the dental records that they used, the various people who are familiar with them, including Tariq Aziz and also Saddam Hussein's personal bodyguard, both have identified them conclusively and the x- rays that we saw that match the injuries that Uday was known to have, they believe they have a positive identification. To the extent they do DNA testing, it will just be to absolutely answer every question.

COOPER: All right, Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon thank you very much.

To Iraq itself now, where it may take more than photographs to make the case that Uday and Qusay aren't only merely dead but really most sincerely dead.

CNN's Nic Robertson filed this report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON (voice-over): In Baghdad's cafes, division over whether or not the pictures prove the brothers are dead.

"The pictures are true" he says "but the Americans should have talked them into surrendering so we could judge them."

"I'm not convinced" this man says. "The two brothers wouldn't risk being in the same place."

At a nearby Internet cafe, more dispute over the pictures.

"I think it's a fabrication" he says, "a fabrication by the American CIA."

"If it's true they're dead" this man says, "I believe it will be the end of Saddam's remnants."

On coalition-run Iraqi television less graphic black and white images aired. At Iraqi newspapers, more widely available here than television, consensus that most Iraqis are not likely to believe the coalition.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All the U.S. performances are planned by George W. Bush. Before the start of the war could it be met by the coalition forces.

ROBERTSON: For a former doctor of Uday and Qusay appearing on a satellite channel watched here no doubt the pair are dead.

SALAH AL SHEMRI, FORMER HUSSEIN DOCTOR (through translator): The pictures of Uday and Qusay are 100 percent accurate.

ROBERTSON: Possibly the most convincing argument for Iraqis that the brothers are dead coming from the so-called New Fedayeen fighters in a taped statement delivered to another Arab broadcaster seen in Iraq.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): To the occupiers who said last evening the killing of Uday and Qusay would decrease the attacks on the invaders, we want to say to them that the deaths of Uday and Qusay will increase the attacks on the soldiers.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON: In the latest attack against U.S. soldiers, three soldiers died in a gun and grenade attack and, perhaps what's very significant about this, not only is it the bloodiest attack against U.S. troops since the end of the war, it occurred not far from Mosul where Uday and Qusay were killed, perhaps an indication here that this Fedayeen organization is making good on its statements here -- Anderson.

COOPER: Nic, are you hearing anything from U.S. officials in Iraq about concern? I mean some of the people in your piece were saying, you know, they simply don't believe those are real photographs or do U.S. officials kind of think those people are never going to believe anything they have to say?

ROBERTSON: I think there's an element of that, Anderson. The coalition provisional authority here knows that there are people they're just not going to win over. I think it's perhaps becoming clear here that by putting these pictures out has reassured a lot of people who may have still had questions in their minds, help swing them over.

And, in the long run, it's likely going to be the right thing for the coalition to do and there are people they know they'll never convince. They know they need to do a lot more, a lot more on social security issues but this probably from what we've seen probably the right thing to do.

COOPER: And from what you're hearing from the U.S. military are they satisfied with how the operation went down and, I ask this because I suppose as they look forward to the possibility of getting Saddam Hussein, I'm wondering would they go about it the same way or would they perhaps make more of an effort, if it was even a possibility, to capture him alive?

ROBERTSON: There's certainly a school of thought among Iraqis here it would be much better to have him caught alive but the coalition has said all along it's a kill or capture mission for Saddam Hussein. How do they weight that in the final analysis? Would he choose to shoot it out? Would he be in a fortified house? Would they catch him by surprise? Probably all of these different elements would factor into it.

What we're noticing here there have been ongoing raids in Mosul, ongoing raids in Tikrit. We get -- the picture begins to emerge here as if the coalition is trying to close down all the bolt holes, all the friends, all the former allies that Saddam Hussein may have had limiting the places he may go and hide so perhaps by this way getting closer to him by flushing him out -- Anderson.

COOPER: All right, let's hope so. Nic Robertson thanks very much.

A little bit more now on the reception in other parts of the Arab world, it's a story that always comes with a footnote. There is no single Arab street. We all know that. There are many but in each from Casablanca to Qatar the big story today was the same even if the opinions and the coverage differed, a small sampling tonight from CNN's Brent Sadler.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SADLER (voice-over): In the Arab world, viewers appear to have expected nothing less from their television channels, the full gory details through close-up images of the bodies of Saddam Hussein's top lieutenants, his sons Uday and Qusay.

GEBRAN TUFNI, PUBLISHER, AN NAHAR: In the Arab mentality the end of the regime is a dead person, a death penalty. The Iraqi people, even some Arabs needed to see this too.

SADLER: And seeing is believing.

TUFNI: Everybody is going to do what we are doing now, to look at the pictures, to look at it again and they're being more and more convinced.

SADLER (on camera): Convincing skeptical and often scared Iraqis is what the photo release is all about. Here in Beirut, as in many other Arab capitals, it's the top news story some commentators saying Saddam Hussein's left and right hands are shown to be cut off now that the Americans have provided photographic proof the two sons are dead.

(voice-over): Syrian television briefly referred to the corpses while Hezbollah's Al-Manar channel in Beirut gave a straight news report. Abu Dhabi satellite TV included details of the $30 million reward a camera shy informant should collect, while Al-Arabiya broadcast from Dubai also focused on a statement by Saddam Fedayeen, once led by Uday threatening more attacks on U.S. troops.

Some Middle East new chiefs now expect that if Saddam Hussein is still alive he may try to prove it by sending out a new tape recording.

SAMER HAMZEH, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF: I'm waiting to see that. I'm waiting to see the reaction. Will the attacks on the American Army in Iraq will be reduced or will they decrease or increase? I don't know.

SADLER: Nor does anyone else.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SADLER: Some observers in this region also say the photographs may have dealt a serious psychological blow to Saddam Hussein assuming he's still alive and destroyed any hopes he might have had that his two sons could somehow help restore power to Saddam Hussein's tribal group. The photographs could also encourage other reward hunters to turn Saddam Hussein in wherever he might be hiding -- Anderson.

COOPER: Brent, it's interesting listening to your report. It differs from Nic Robertson in that it seems like a lot of people inside Iraq or, at least some people inside Iraq seem to be debating whether or not the photos are real by and large. From what I'm hearing from you, at least from the coverage from all these different Arab networks is they seem to accept it as real.

SADLER: Yes, a widespread assumption in the way it was reported, in the way we've heard newscasters present those reports that no real level of proof that any skepticism that the Iraqis clearly have is being expressed widely across the way this story is being presented in the Middle East. Certainly, everybody I've spoken to here in the Lebanese capital tonight certainly believe they've seen he corpses of Saddam Hussein's two sons.

COOPER: Interesting, Brent Sadler thanks very much for that report.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, we'll try to decipher the California governor recall. Just how will it work and who will actually be on the ballot? Candy Crowley has that story.

And later, what happens when Middle America comes to the middle of New York? Do I smell lobster? Be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Well, last year, California Governor Gray Davis was embroiled in one of the roughest campaigns of his political career. This year, on the other hand, he'll be embroiled in one of the roughest campaigns of his political career.

A recall petition will do that to you. Tonight, the recall election is on. The date is set and Californians are getting ready for an October to remember and it will be.

Here again, CNN's Candy Crowley.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CROWLEY (voice-over): Wearing his best what-me-worry face, the governor of California did governor business Thursday trying not to talk about that other business which is, of course, impossible.

GOV. GRAY DAVIS (D), CALIFORNIA: I'm going to get my job done the most important part of which is passing a budget and then if the people want me to present my credentials, and apparently they do one more time, I'm going to present my credentials.

CROWLEY: He remains California's iceman, coolly dismissive of the attempt to vote him out of the office he was reelected to just eight months ago and yet the oncoming train keeps coming on.

LT. GOV. CRUZ BUSTAMANTE, CALIFORNIA: The date that I've decided to choose for this election is Tuesday, October 7th.

CROWLEY: Yikes, 76 days, so little time, so much potential for disaster. The secretary of state has to mail informational pamphlets to 15 million registered voters. Fifty-eight counties have to find 25,000 voting locations. They also need to recruit 100,000 poll workers and, oh yes, some counties need new voting machines. Hear those alarm bells? So does the state's top election official.

KEVIN SHELLEY, CALIFORNIA SECRETARY OF STATE: No one obviously wants a Florida-type election in California and I certainly don't want that on my watch as secretary of state. It's a challenge.

CROWLEY: Beyond the logistical threat there are the political machinations. Step one for Democrats, the dire warning.

BUSTAMANTE: It wouldn't surprise me one bit that the other side has a recall of whoever wins this election.

CROWLEY: The specter of California locked in eternal election cycle is not the ringing endorsement you might think the lieutenant governor would give the governor but the Democratic duo are, how to put this, not close which is to say they haven't spoken in several months. Still, Cruz Bustamante, thought to covet the top job, will not put his name on the ballot. No Democrat is expected to.

BUSTAMANTE: Others are going to have to decide themselves but, for me, I think it's the best thing for me.

CROWLEY: But for Democrats do you think it is for all Democrats to stay off except for Gray Davis?

BUSTAMANTE: I think it's a winning formula.

CROWLEY: The save Gray Davis formula is to give heavily Democratic California no alternative to Davis except Republicans, a tough choice for even the most disgruntled Democrat and the way to frame the recall as a crass overreach by Republicans who can't win the old-fashioned way.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CROWLEY: Still, some Democrats privately worry that Gray Davis may have alienated enough of his base that they prefer a Republican candidate and for precisely that reason Republicans believe that it's possible a Democrat may get into this race sooner rather than later -- back to you Anderson.

COOPER: But, Candy, as you said in your piece, yikes. I'm not even sure where to begin with this. When do the other potential candidates, the Republican challengers if, in fact, no Democrats do decide to run, when do they have to sign up by?

CROWLEY: In early August. They don't have a lot of time but then this has been coming for a while. I mean they say this train coming down the track but right now state Republican Party leaders tell us that they've sort of put out the word to the Republicans who voiced some interest in this, look, don't go make it official right now because they do suspect that a Democrat might get in and what they'd like to do, at least the state Republican Party would like to do, is maybe see if they can't winnow down the field if a Democrat jumps in because they'll have a stronger road that way.

COOPER: Understood. All right, Candy Crowley thanks very much.

More now on the maneuvering, political, legal, and otherwise between now and the 7th of October, we're joined tonight by Gary Delsohn of the "Sacramento Bee." Gary thanks for joining us. Welcome to NEWSNIGHT.

GARY DELSOHN, "SACRAMENTO BEE": Thank you, my pleasure.

COOPER: Does Gray Davis have any hope? I mean where does he go from here? Does he start swinging?

DELSOHN: Well, I think he's already doing that. He's in full campaign mode really. He's comfortable campaigning. He announced the creation of a campaign team today. Most of the polls show that I think 48 to 51 percent, somewhere in that range favor a recall and so he's got a fighting chance and he's tenacious. He's a fighter.

COOPER: And the strategy that he's going to fight with is?

DELSOHN: Well, he's already portraying this as kind of a right wing extremist move to take over the governorship, you know, take it back after the last election, sour grapes. It's going to cost the state between $30 million and $60 million to stage the election. He's highlighting that in light of the budget problems so these are the kinds of things I think he'll be highlighting.

COOPER: Candy mentioned Republican strategy might be try to winnow down any potential candidates, at least try to get at least one Republican candidate out there so as not to divide the vote. Is that possible?

DELSOHN: I think that's what they'd like to do but I don't know that it's possible. I mean there's a lot of speculation, obviously, as you all know on Arnold Schwarzenegger, Richard Riordan former mayor of -- pardon? Didn't hear you?

You know so it's -- Bill Simon who was the losing candidate in last year's election for the Republicans, sounds like he's going to get in. There's a number of Republicans who are talking about it and thinking about it. It remains to be seen. They have until August 9 at the end of -- 5:00 p.m. that Saturday to declare their candidacy and file the papers.

COOPER: Well, do you think it is likely, though, that the Democrats at least will close ranks behind Gray Davis and no Democrat will step forward to run?

DELSOHN: Right now they're closing ranks behind him. You know all the Democrats that would have expected maybe to or that want to run in the future have said they won't run this time. Assembly Democrats today got together and voted unanimously to oppose the recall and they categorized it as a right-wing extremist attempt to hijack the governorship.

Right now the Democrats are closing ranks but I think, you know, it depends maybe on the numbers what the polls look like. There's a lot of -- there could be pressure on somebody like Senator Feinstein or someone else to get in if Davis looks like a loser.

The last thing they want is to lose this to the Republicans in this manner but I think they're, you know, right now they're going to wait and see and they're behind the governor even though he's not necessarily on the best of terms with a lot of potential Democrats who could run.

COOPER: I think a lot of people nationally are sort of waiting and seeing on this sort of just stunned at it all. Do you think there is going to be a lot of national involvement either from the parties at large or individual groups?

DELSOHN: Well, so far we haven't seen any. I think the White House seems to be staying clear of it, at least in a visible manner. I mean this is such a bizarre kind of uncharted territory that nobody really knows how it's going to play out, what the ramifications long term will be for either party.

You know, I think people seem to be taking the attitude that this is California's peculiar problem and will stay out of it. That could change but right now we haven't seen any evidence that it will yet.

COOPER: Gray Davis is known as a pretty tough campaigner.

DELSOHN: There's no question. I mean I talked to somebody who is close to him about a week ago. He said he's more lighthearted and light of spirit than he's seen him in months. He likes the campaign. He likes the fight. I'm sure he'd rather be doing other things and not being put through this -- a recall. It's kind of humiliating and difficult but he's a tenacious guy.

As he said, you know, he's been written off many times politically in his career. He knows how to campaign. He may not be the most charismatic campaigner but he does know how to push the buttons that people seem to respond to and he wins, you know.

He has won the elections that he's run in, so I think anybody who knows him, and even the Republicans who are being honest with you will tell you that it's a mistake to write him off or sell him short or underestimate him.

COOPER: All right, Gary Delsohn good to actually talk to you. Welcome to NEWSNIGHT and we'll talk to you again no doubt.

Coming up on NEWSNIGHT, the report on September 11 is out, what is shows and what it does not as NEWSNIGHT continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Well, it doesn't seem fitting that today's congressional report on 9/11 became buried in the rest of today's headlines. The report lays out in painful detail the failures that led to so many lives being lost and set the country on a path to wars in two countries so far.

Depending on who in Washington you ask it either amounts to the proverbial smoking gun or not. Some would say it hardly matters. If there isn't enough in the report to make a compelling case that 9/11 could have been averted there is still plenty there to raise a chill and plenty to break your heart.

Here's CNN's Jonathan Karl.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JONATHAN KARL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The reports says the intelligence community blew its best chance to prevent the September 11 attacks when more than a year earlier two of the hijackers came into an extensive contact with an FBI informant in San Diego.

"The informant's contacts with the hijackers, had they been capitalized on, would have given the San Diego FBI Field Office perhaps the intelligence community's best chance to unravel the September 11 plot."

The problem, although the CIA knew since early 2000 that the two future hijackers, Khalid Almidhar and Nawaf Alhazmi had ties to al Qaeda, the agency didn't tell the FBI until three weeks before September 11, and even then the FBI Headquarters didn't tell its San Diego Field Office.

SEN. RICHARD SHELBY (R-AL), FORMER CHMN. INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: I believe if all of the information had been put together before September the 11th, and if it were fused and acted upon, maybe things would change -- would have changed.

KARL: The report concludes that parts of the intelligence community simply did not take the threat of an attack on U.S. soil seriously enough. Former anti-terror official Richard Clark told the committee that a year before the attacks: "I visited five or six of the field offices and asked them what they were doing about al Qaeda. I got sort of blank looks of what is al Qaeda?"

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), MINORITY LEADER: Al Qaeda was better at planning the attacks and keeping their plans secret than the United States government was in uncovering them.

KARL: Yet, since 1998, U.S. intelligence was picking up repeated indications that Osama bin Laden wanted to strike within the United States. One unspecified intelligence report indicated in December, 1998, that an al Qaeda member was: "Planning operations against U.S. targets, plans to hijack U.S. aircraft proceeding well. Two individuals (names censored) had successfully evaded checkpoints in a dry run at a New York airport."

(on camera): Much of the report is censored, including an entire section that deals with sources of foreign support for some of the hijackers.

Sources familiar with the censored material say that it includes evidence that members of the Saudi royal family provided assistance for some of the hijackers. It is a charge that Saudi Arabia vehemently denies.

(voice-over): The report also says that inadequate intelligence prevented effective action on an open presidential order to strike Osama bin Laden. U.S. cruise missile attacks on Sudan and Afghanistan in August 1998 were the only military attempts against al Qaeda before September 11.

SEN. BOB GRAHAM (D-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The report confirms that, between 1999 and 2001, we did not get spies close enough to him to tell us where he would be on any given day.

KARL: The military and the CIA were reluctant to act without better intelligence. As one former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff told the committee, "You can develop military operations until hell freezes over, but they are worthless without intelligence."

Jonathan Karl, CNN, Capitol Hill.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Well, we wanted to get another view now.

Elaine Shannon is the national security reporter for "TIME" magazine. She joins us tonight from Washington.

Elaine, good to see you.

ELAINE SHANNON, "TIME": Good evening.

COOPER: So I suppose there is plenty to say: no smoking gun, but certainly lots of missed opportunities.

SHANNON: Absolutely.

And it is heartbreaking. Many times, many of us sit next to somebody on a train and we -- who knows what that person really is. And this is how, over and over, it is described. Yes, the FBI informant in San Diego lived with these two guys who turned out to be hijackers for a spell. The FBI says he recognized their names -- they were living under their own names -- when, after 9/11, their names were publicized.

But the names were in another place. They were in NSA and CIA databases. And the field office didn't know that and didn't know to tell him, didn't even know to look in the phone book for these guys.

COOPER: Yes, and we're talking about these two hijackers, al- Mihdhar and al-Hazmi. And it is a case -- one branch of the government kind of knew about them. The other one sort of saw them as well. But it seemed like they never communicated with each other.

SHANNON: Right.

And, also, they didn't have any red flags on them. These are leaders. These are managers of terrorist units.

COOPER: And that was because the CIA basically failed to put them on the watch list, is that correct?

SHANNON: Right.

And George Tenet said that, to his credit, in the hearings last year. There is a lot of this material that, if you have no life and you've spent all your time reading everything there is to read about these guys, you would know. But it is wonderful to have it in one place, where, if you are a serious student of history and public policy, you can really go over it and think about how the government might run things better.

COOPER: Peter Bergen, a security expert, said to me, it wasn't so much a failure of intelligence; it was a failure of imagination. Do you agree with that?

SHANNON: Yes.

You see so many places where people just seem like they had novocaine in their brains. They knew certain things. They knew that, here is our calls going to bad guys. And yet, well, the person wasn't wearing a big badge that said: terrorist leader, very dangerous. And so they somehow didn't spread the information around. You see now, after 9/11, that the government has a hair trigger. And any little wisp of information, they all say. They spread it around instantly. And some of it, of course, leaks. So we know that.

COOPER: Beyond the document that will be studied by government analysts and students of government, how does this thing get used from here on out in terms of -- will it be politicized? Will there be finger-pointing? Of course there will be. Will it be effective finger-pointing. I guess there is plenty in there that the Bush administration, if they wanted to, or Republicans, could use to point against the Clinton administration.

SHANNON: Oh, yes.

The report talks about how budgets for the intelligence community for these purposes went down after 1992. But then, of course, the Democrats will say, well President Bush won the election. He came in, and then what happened until September? It seems to be a very bad transition there.

COOPER: How surprised were you, as someone who follows this stuff extraordinarily closely, that this large section that was basically censored, which reportedly deals with foreign involvement and, in particular, it is alleged, a lot of Saudi involvement?

SHANNON: Well, that's not surprising at all, because, historically, our government guards its relationships with certain governments, particularly governments that we need for information or for trade or to have our military there and who are very sensitive. We guard those very jealously.

And so the administration basically let the CIA and the FBI and NSA take their lumps, because they're fair game. But they really didn't want the Saudis and probably some other governments to get criticized very heavily in the public press.

COOPER: All right, Elaine Shannon, "TIME" magazine, thanks very much for joining us.

SHANNON: Thank you.

COOPER: All right.

And still to come on NEWSNIGHT: one way to get from Cuba to Florida. You can drive, as some Cubans tried to do. We'll have details on that in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: All right, starting off our "National Roundup" tonight: the latest on the case of the missing Baylor University basketball player Patrick Dennehy, still missing. His parents spoke out today and said they're holding out hope their son is alive. Dennehy's former teammate, Carlton Dotson, is being held on a charge of killing Dennehy. Police still have not found the body. Now, while his parents consider Dennehy missing, they did begin the process of packing up his apartment.

Chilling testimony today involving the accused teenage sniper Lee Malvo. A Maryland prison guard said that Malvo told him he planned to shoot a bus full of kids. The goal, Malvo allegedly told him, was to upset the man who was the Montgomery County police chief during the sniper shootings, Charles Moose. And the testimony came during a hearing over the statements Malvo made in jail and whether they could be used at his trial.

And a new security routine began at City Hall in New York today. Mayor Michael Bloomberg, right there, went through a metal detector, something that he and the city council members were exempt from doing until yesterday's deadly shooting. Councilman James Davis bypassed the metal detect, along with a political rival who later shot and killed him before he was shot and killed by police.

And a few stories from around the world now, starting with a typhoon in southern China. It is the strongest to hit the region in seven years, with winds that reach 115 miles an hour. At least 11 people were hurt in Hong Kong after 10 or more were killed when the typhoon hit earlier in the Philippines.

Take a look at this. No, that is not your grandfather's Chevy there. This is how a group of ingenious Cubans tried to flee to the U.S., by driving there. They were doing eight miles per hour when they were pulled over by the U.S. Coast Guard 40 miles from Key West. They used oil drums to make the '51 Chevy float. For all their pluck, they were still sent back to Cuba.

And the title of the documentary says it all, doesn't it? "James Hewitt: Confessions of a Cad." James Hewitt is the former British army major who had a love affair with the late Princess Diana. The documentary reveals plenty of salacious details and shows Hewitt trying to sell her letters to him. Diana's former butler says Hewitt is no mere cad. He is also -- quote -- "a rat, slimeball, disgrace and snake" -- end quote.

Well, later, on NEWSNIGHT, all you wanna-be Carrie Bradshaws out there, the hottest, newest spot in all of Manhattan, just look for the giant lobster.

Also, the Palestinian prime minister comes to the U.S. for talks. And our Christiane Amanpour talked to him tonight. We'll have the interview in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Well, safe to say that Mahmoud Abbas has one of the tougher jobs on planet Earth. He's in Washington for the first time as the Palestinian prime minister.

And he's under enormous pressure from all different sides. The U.S. and Israel want him to do more to disarm terrorists. His own people expect him to press hard for bigger concessions from Israel and for more support from the U.S. The prime minister meets with President Bush tomorrow.

And, tonight, Christiane Amanpour had the chance to sit down with him.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Mr. Prime minister, first of all, thank you very much for joining us.

You're here to have an important meeting with President Bush and members of the administration. What specifically are you going to ask President Bush for in order to meet the goals of the road map?

MAHMOUD ABBAS, PALESTINIAN PRIME MINISTER (through translator): I would like him to work on convincing, persuading, Israel to freeze settlement activity and to stop building the wall and, as I mentioned, to convince them to release the prisoners, because this is an issue of high sensitivity to us.

These are the issues that we want. And we have explained these positions in Sharm el-Sheikh and in Aqaba. And I have explained them to Secretary Powell and to Dr. Condoleezza Rice. So I believe they have a clear idea of what it is. And the president in Aqaba had indicated clearly on the issue of the settlements, as well as the prisoners.

AMANPOUR: If you go back without that commitment, for instance, on the prisoners and the settlements and the war, what reception will you get and what will it mean for your political future, your own future?

ABBAS (through translator): I believe that frustration will be all over the Palestinian lands, because they expect us to bring these solutions, these results.

Everybody is prepared to move forward with the peace process through the road map. However, if they are to feel that there is no response or no commitment on the American side -- and I hope this will not happen -- then the situation would be quite difficult and I and my government will be in a very difficult situation, because we have committed ourselves to implement this and we have started implementing it. And it is not acceptable that the other side would not do it. So the situation would get worse.

AMANPOUR: You have said that you would judge the Israeli Prime Minister Sharon by his actions. How do you judge his actions in terms of implementing his obligations under the road map since the Aqaba summit seven weeks ago?

ABBAS (through translator): No commitment has been done, except the withdrawal in Gaza and the city of Bethlehem.

However, the withdrawal from Gaza was not complete, as were -- the withdrawal from Bethlehem was only from the inner part of the city. But the borders of the city are still closed off. And the people are living under very bad conditions, because they say the withdrawal has ended from within the city, but is still around the city.

That is what Mr. Sharon has done. And I had asked him in my third and fourth meeting with him after Aqaba to implement those, especially regarding the prisoners, the wall and the settlements. However, as of this moment, I have not gotten a response and have not seen anything on the ground.

AMANPOUR: The Israelis also say that you haven't fulfilled your part of the bargain, which is to dismantle the so-called terrorist infrastructures. You prefer not to confront them, but try to, I think, bring them into the process and convince them to cease-fire. Is that still your strategy? And how do you think the Americans will respond to your strategy on that?

ABBAS (through translator): We -- before having reached the accord regarding the cease-fire with the Palestinian factions, we have spoken to Prime Minister Sharon in detail and President Bush. And I have informed them of our point of view on this issue and our capabilities to fulfill and implement that.

And, of course, there was Israeli opposition and American opposition to the word cease-fire. However, in the end, I do not know if they have been convinced. However, they have not objected to that ever since. This is something that we brought forth. And we brought forth those organizations on their own convictions, convinced that, by making them feel responsible -- in other words, there is an accord between us and those organizations.

However, these -- this accord, we have expressed to them quite clearly that it is very important to respect the rule of law in the country and to get rid of the use of weapons and that we will implement the law on anyone who violates it. And we are doing so.

AMANPOUR: There is a lot of pessimism and some skepticism about your own popularity with the Palestinian people and your ability to deliver, in terms of improving their lives and delivering the road map and other agreements. How are you going to overcome that skepticism?

ABBAS (through translator): I think, yes, maybe I was not a very popular leader, a leader in the -- it is not about me.

However, people know that I'm a man of my word and I say the same thing to everyone. And I believe, given my capabilities, what I'll try to do for the people by making results on the ground, the more they will appreciate me, the more we realize -- the more they will accept me. And if we don't, then they will not.

AMANPOUR: And, finally, I understand from -- I've heard that you're going to show President Bush a map in your meeting tomorrow. Why?

ABBAS (through translator): It is very important to make people really see what we're talking about when we refer to the settlements, to the wall of separation, regarding the checkpoints that exist in the West Bank, which are -- which number more than 160. These things have to be concrete in front of the eyes of the president. We don't want to talk about these things in the void. It is necessary for him to see the maps to reinforce what we are talking about, so he can see those issues that we are suffering from. I believe that this is beneficial to us and to the president.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Well, if you'd like to see the complete interview with Prime Minister Abbas, it can be seen tomorrow morning at 5:00 a.m. Eastern time here on CNN.

Still ahead tonight on NEWSNIGHT: the attack of the killer lobsters. What happens when they hit Manhattan? Get the butter.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(ROOSTER CROWING)

COOPER: Like I always say, I love that morning magazine segment.

Anyway, New York is a beacon for chow hounds the world over. Now, this is the city where you can find Ukrainian meatballs, Korean barbecue or a maybe Turkish kabob all in the span of a few blocks. And now, at the crossroads of the world, you can find the exotic delights of another far-flung locale: strip-mall-istan.

Once confined only to the rarest patch out on Route 5 or Interstate 94, some of the cuisine of strip-mall-istan can be found at a brand new restaurant in Times Square, already well known to foodies as the Red Lobster.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER (voice-over): New York's great white way is proud to present the newest production on Broadway.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, let's have a great day. Think about, our No. 1 job is to make people feel good, OK? Make people feel good. Have a great show. The curtain's rising.

COOPER: But this is no theater. And these are not actors. Well, they may want to be actors, but, right now, they're waiters.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello. Hello.

COOPER: Welcome to Times Squares' newest attraction, a three- story, 400-seat Red Lobster restaurant, the first and only Red Lobster in New York City.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Times Square is the crossroads of the world. Millions of people from around the world visit here every week, every day, every year. We kind of see this as our billboard to America.

COOPER: Ten thousand people applied to work at this Red Lobster. Some 300 were chosen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My job is to make you feel at home.

COOPER: And all of them seem like very, very perky people.

JONATHAN ANDERSON, WAITER: It is like being as energetic as possible. Am I over the top? Is my energy there? Am I making you feel like I'm treating you as No. 1 guest, No. 1 person, just as if you're feeling like you're just total, there is nobody else, and it is just all about you?

GRETCHEN BIEBER, WAITRESS: I guess they saw in me some sort of energy and upbeatness, that I just -- basically, I'll do whatever it takes for Red Lobster to keep the quality that they need for all of our guests.

COOPER: The folks at Red Lobster have come up with a new marketing campaign: Share the love. That's the slogan, fitting, perhaps, for Times Square, where, in days gone by, a lot of love was shared in peep shows and porn palaces. Times Square has seen plenty of crabs. Perhaps it is finally ready for this red crustacean.

JEFF TATTERSALL, GENERAL MANAGER: The breaking of the shell is a metaphor for human connection, as people seek to breakthrough the outer shell. And seafood is traditionally shareable seafood, the shrimp, cracking of the lobster, passing it around. It kind of brings everybody together. It is our way in the seafood to bring everybody together to share the love.

COOPER: What? Let's hear that one again.

TATTERSALL: The breaking of the shell is a metaphor for human connection, as people...

COOPER: Wow, lobster as metaphor. These people don't mess around.

Anyway, the place is packed and the customers seem happy.

DEBBIE DOWELL, CUSTOMER: There is something about getting into your food with your hands that, it is a little more down home.

COOPER: But this is New York. And not everyone is so thrilled.

JOE QUEENAN, AUTHOR, "RED LOBSTER: WHITE TRASH AND THE BLUE LAGOON": Eating in a Red Lobster in New York City is like going to the Louvre to see paintings of dogs playing poker.

COOPER: Well, New Yorkers are survivors. They survived King Kong, after all. No doubt, they'll survive the Red Lobster, too.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Mmm, lobster.

That's about it for us here on NEWSNIGHT. Join me tomorrow night at 7:00 for a full hour-long look at the day's top stories. And I'll be back on NEWSNIGHT tomorrow night as well.

Good night.

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