Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown
New Airline Terrorism Warnings Out; Verdicts Are In Police Beating Case in Inglewood; Texas Democrats Flee State
Aired July 29, 2003 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again, everyone.
There was a strange confluence of stories today, the first we are to agree, I suppose, used to a new terror warning issued.
The second had to do with a Pentagon plan to essentially open a futures market on terror. People could place a wager on where terrorists would hit or who they would hit, the idea being that futures markets tend to get things right. They tend to be right on oil supply or cotton prices so why not terror?
If there was ever a day when the new normal seemed totally abnormal today was it and it's where we begin the whip. Jeanne Meserve in Washington with details of a new terror threat which sounds frighteningly like an old one, Jeanne the headline.
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, possible airline hijackings, possibly this summer, possibly against targets overseas or the U.S., and the intelligence indicates details that indicate the terrorists too learned lessons from September 11 -- Aaron.
BROWN: Jeanne, thank you, we'll get to you at the top tonight.
A dramatic day in a southern California courtroom, the outcome of a high profile police brutality case, Dan Lothian on the story for us, Dan a headline.
DAN LOTHIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, the verdicts were highly anticipated. The outcome was quite a surprise, one not guilty, the other hopelessly deadlocked -- Aaron.
BROWN: Dan, thank you.
Another protest by Texas Democrats fighting a Republic redistricting plan, yes, that story is back. Ed Lavandera is in Austin, Texas, so Ed your headline tonight.
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Aaron.
Well, Texas Democrats continue their tour of the southwest states. The first stop was Ardmore, Oklahoma. This time it's Albuquerque, New Mexico, and they're singing the same tune. They don't like redistricting -- Aaron.
BROWN: Ed, thank you, back to you shortly. Also coming up tonight on NEWSNIGHT, more on that idea of what had a stream of critics saying what were they thinking? The futures market to bet on terror, we'll look at the political fallout but we'll also look at the economic rationale that helps explain where this idea, tasteless though it may be, came from.
The Indiana father who never gave up hope of finding his daughter, more than a decade after she disappeared he says he's never felt so close to finding her after a grown woman came forward to say she may be his little girl.
And, the least predictable two and a half minutes of NEWSNIGHT perhaps in all of television, our look through the morning papers, tomorrow morning's papers from around the country and around the world as well, all of that and more in the hour ahead.
We begin with the latest terror warning. Unlike so many we've reported on in the last two years or so it doesn't concern anything too difficult to imagine. Instead, in language that is both typically vague and chillingly specific it warns of the possibility of the unimaginable happening all over again.
We begin tonight with CNN's Jeanne Meserve.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MESERVE (voice-over): There has not been a domestic hijacking since 9/11 but the government says Islamic extremists could be planning others before the end of the summer in the U.S. or against U.S. interests abroad.
GORDON ENGLAND, DEPUTY SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY: They're a determined foe and they're going to try to do everything they can to defeat the systems we put in place.
MESERVE: A Department of Homeland Security advisory sent to the aviation community says: "Attack venues may include the United Kingdom, Italy, Australia, or the East Cost of the United States due to the relatively high concentration of government, military, and economic targets."
That the hijackers may use flights that transit through the target countries to avoid the need for visas. That the plan may involve the use of five man teams that would attempt to seize control of an aircraft near takeoff or landing that could preclude the need for flight trained hijackers.
That the hijackers could try to calm passengers and make them believe they are on a hostage, not suicide, mission and that the hijackers may attempt to use items carried by travelers, such as cameras, modified as weapons.
The information was gleaned over the last several weeks from interrogations of high level al Qaeda detainees and electronic intercepts, sources say. SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The advisory was sent out so that the appropriate security personnel can be informed and take necessary steps and they will take the appropriate steps.
MESERVE: The State Department issued a worldwide caution late Monday citing the hijacking threat and officials will decide this week whether to stop letting passengers transit through the U.S. without a visa.
Since 9/11, much money and effort has been spent on aviation security, including the installation of bulletproof cockpit doors, the federalization of passenger and baggage screening, and the deployment of thousands of air marshals.
STEVE POMERANTZ, FORMER FBI COUNTERTERRORISM OFFICIAL: The main reason I think that they would attack an airliner, it's something the know how to do and it's dramatic. The reasons that they may not include the fact that there's been much greater security.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MESERVE: One official ranks the credibility of the intelligence as a six or seven on a scale of ten but there is no plan to raise the terror threat level in part because no equipment or operatives are known to have been deployed to carry out the plans -- Aaron.
BROWN: Well, I want to try to do three if I can. Six or seven on a scale of ten, compare that to the quality of intelligence when they do raise the threat level.
MESERVE: Well, in this instance it isn't only about the quality of the intelligence. It's also about the specificity of the threat. Raising the threat level causes a lot of angst. It also costs a lot of money for the sectors involved and also state and local governments.
So, the federal government is not apt to jockey around that threat level without considerable consideration. Their feeling is that this threat is specific to the airline industry and within that industry there already is a heightened level of security far above and beyond what you see in any other sector of industry and so they felt that simply issuing this warning, this advisory, would be sufficient.
BROWN: And has there been any reaction from the airline industry, which has never really or has yet to recover from 9/11 and the aftermath?
MESERVE: Well, I talked to one airport official today who said there have been so many warnings that it's hard to get very worked up about this one. He also offered the thought that the Department of Homeland Security is apt to err on the side of caution with all of these advisories. He says what if, God forbid, something happened and they hadn't put out this information? There would, in his words, "be hell to pay."
BROWN: Jeanne, thank you very much, Jeanne Meserve in Washington tonight.
And, on we go. That story, obviously, brings back memories of two years ago. This story, a story about police brutality reminds many of the Rodney King incident now a decade ago.
A jury in Los Angeles had to decide what a piece of amateur videotape revealed. Did it show an out of control cop beating a Black teenager, violating the law, or did it hide as much as it revealed? There was fear of what might happen if the man accused of the beating was acquitted. He wasn't but critics say justice is yet to be done.
Reporting for us, CNN's Dan Lothian.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LOTHIAN (voice-over): On the fourth day of deliberations the jury spoke, a voice that was far from unanimous.
JUDGE WILLIAM HOLLINGSWORTH, JR.: We are deadlocked on Count 1 and I see no further change in alignment.
LOTHIAN: Seven jurors concluded former Inglewood police officer Jeremy Morse was guilty in the videotaped assault of 16-year-old Donovan Jackson a little more than a year ago, five concluded he was not guilty, in legal terms a hung jury.
JOHN BARNETT, ATTORNEY FOR MORSE: My client is disappointed as am I that a verdict was not reached but I remain convinced of his innocence.
LOTHIAN: The jury was convinced of co-defendant Bijan Darvish's innocence for filing a false police report.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We the jury in the above-entitled action find the defendant, Bijan Darvish, not guilty of the crime of filing a...
RONALD BROWER, ATTORNEY OR DARVISH: Well, he was relieved and his family was relieved. It's been a terrible ordeal for them this whole year going through this.
LOTHIAN: It was a dramatic pause in a controversial case, a pause because the attorney for Donovan Jackson says the fight for justice is not over.
CAMERON STEWART, DONOVAN JACKSON'S ATTORNEY: We do think that this was a case of excessive force by Jeremy Morse. We do think that this case should definitely be retried.
LOTHIAN: But the District Attorney's Office says it's too early to make a decision.
SANDI GIBBONS, DA SPOKESWOMAN: We're going to take a look at the whole case and make a determination on whether the case should be retried.
LOTHIAN: Outside the courthouse community activists were outraged.
NAJI ALI: These officers were both guilty and they should have been found guilty so it's a slap in the face.
LOTHIAN: And this from customers watching the verdicts at an Inglewood restaurant.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I seen the videotape it's clearly misconduct of police officers.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I believe strongly that you got to trust in the 12 citizens who allow themselves to become jurors to take on their responsibility.
LOTHIAN: Despite anger in the community a call for peace. This prayer vigil in Inglewood just one attempt by activists to make certain strong feelings don't lead to unrest.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LOTHIAN: Donovan Jackson's attorney says that she still plans to continue with civil action. Morse's attorney says he plans to ask the court to have this case dismissed altogether, and the District Attorney's Office says that the decision on whether or not to retry this case will be made by September 22 -- Aaron.
BROWN: And, Dan, in southern California tonight is it quiet?
LOTHIAN: Right now, Aaron, it is quiet and activists out in the community are hoping that it will stay that way.
BROWN: And is there any reason to believe -- well, let me ask this differently. What was the racial makeup of the jury?
LOTHIAN: There was one African American on that jury, a 19-year- old male.
BROWN: And the rest were all Caucasians?
LOTHIAN: The rest of them were mostly Caucasian. There were about three or four who were Hispanics.
BROWN: Dan, thank you, Dan Lothian out in California tonight.
Jeffrey Toobin, our legal analyst, is here with more on that. From what you -- it's hard in this not to at least approach the subject of race. Is there anything you've heard that suggests that race was a factor in how the jury did its business?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I'll tell you one thing Dan Lothian told me before we went on the air. That one Black juror during jury deliberations, which were obviously very contentious and went on for quite a long time for a fairly straightforward case, during jury deliberations came to court wearing a Kobe Bryant jersey.
BROWN: Oh. TOOBIN: Which he interpreted as kind of an act of sort of racial solidarity with the victim in this case and I think Dan is exactly right. I think it's just sort of an amazing thing to think about that Kobe Bryant in the past month has become that kind of symbol but it also was a reminder that this was a very racially charged case and it remains that way in this uncomfortable ending that is reached.
BROWN: It also just as an aside suggests how people are going to view the Bryant case when ultimately that gets to trial.
TOOBIN: It's just a coming attraction absolutely.
BROWN: You're the prosecutor, what are you thinking? What are the factors in whether you retry this case and to what degree do you take into account the community's feelings?
TOOBIN: If this were a completely anonymous case I think it would be very obvious what to do, try to work out a plea bargain to a misdemeanor, get rid of the case, don't retry it. I think that's very unlikely to happen because of the reaction you've seen.
The community is very concerned, very upset for good reason given the magnitude of this incident. I think the case is going to be retried and even though when you have five people voting for acquittal that's a sign that you got real problems in the case and a second try might not work but you've got to try it a second time.
BROWN: Who learns more in a trial? Does the prosecution -- will the prosecution have benefited from seeing the defense lay out its case or will it be the defense that has benefited from seeing the prosecution or is it a wash?
TOOBIN: The folklore is it's better for the defense because the cases tend not to get better with age. Witnesses' memories get worse. You can cross-examine based on the transcript in the first case. It's generally considered better for the defense to do it all over again.
BROWN: But the principal witness in this case, if you will, is the piece of tape. Does it not help the prosecution to know how the defense went about attacking, if you will, that tape?
TOOBIN: That's true. It will help but, you know, the tape is pretty darn convincing now, at least to most people, didn't work this week in L.A. and, you know, it might not work a week from now.
BROWN: There's an art, it seems to me. I mean if you look at how the Rodney King case was tried a decade ago and I've heard you talk tonight a fair amount about how this case in many ways was defended in much the same way, a kind of frame-by-frame analysis which has always struck me at least as it takes the power of the tape away.
TOOBIN: Absolutely and it's intended to do just that because all of us who, you know, aren't professionally involved in that case we look at it and we say, oh gosh, how can it be anything but guilty?
But if you go second by second and put the officer's interpretation in front of the jury of each thing that happened, and remember there are other surveillance videos there as well, so it's not just the one angle and the claim by the defense was that Mr. Jackson, the young victim, was some how assaulting him, was fighting back.
BROWN: You know it's that shot, that first shot where they just, to me, where they toss him on the car. Now later the punch comes in but it's that first one that gets me.
TOOBIN: And the thing that's so interesting the amateur videotape...
BROWN: Yes.
TOOBIN: ...you can hear in some playing of it the voice of the person who's taking it and he goes, oh, because and it's exactly the natural reaction all of us feel when we hear that because it is just such an awful thing to see this kid slammed his face into that trunk but the jury didn't buy it.
BROWN: What was he arrested for?
TOOBIN: He was never arrested. I mean that was -- there was an investigation for I believe expired tags but there was never an arrest made.
BROWN: License plate.
TOOBIN: License plate, yes.
BROWN: Were you surprised?
TOOBIN: Yes, I was, although interestingly Dan, who covered the case...
BROWN: You were surprised despite the fact that the deliberation went on for three days?
TOOBIN: Well, let's -- by after three days you know that there are real problems there.
BROWN: Right.
TOOBIN: But, I mean, if you would have asked me at the beginning of the trial would I have been surprised at a hung jury, absolutely yes. By the end today I wasn't but I didn't want to give myself credit for more knowledge than I had.
BROWN: And, you were about to say, in 15 seconds, Dan who was in the courtroom for most of it?
TOOBIN: Was not surprised. He thought the case did not go well for the prosecution and so he was -- he thought this was coming.
BROWN: Thanks. It is to me, I mean, when you see it play out it's just all sort of fascinating. TOOBIN: And it ain't over.
BROWN: It ain't over. I guess we'll do this again. Thank you, Mr. Toobin.
TOOBIN: OK.
BROWN: Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, we'll go back to the war on terror story, a controversial, to say the least, Pentagon program aimed at predicting terror attacks.
And later in the program, the Baylor basketball program under fire after one of its players is murdered, take a break first.
From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Two items today that speak to the complicated, sometimes awkward relationship between the United States and Saudi Arabia. An administration official tells CNN's John King that the Saudi foreign minister has promised to allow the FBI to finally question the Saudi subject with ties to some of the 9/11 hijackers. The apparent concession came despite a firm no from President Bush on something the Saudis badly wanted.
Here's CNN's Andrea Koppel.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT: Request denied. Hours before a hastily arranged meeting with the Saudi foreign minister, President Bush rejected a Saudi demand to declassify some of the recently released congressional report on the 9/11 terrorist attacks.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There's an ongoing investigation into the 9/11 attacks and we don't want to compromise that investigation.
KOPPEL: At the heart of the Saudi kingdom's concern, one blacked out section in an 800-page report focusing on the role foreign governments played in the hijackings.
Sources familiar with the censored section say it includes evidence senior members of the Saudi royal family assisted some of the hijackers. Foreign Minister Saud al-Faisal said his government has been indicted by insinuation and said Saudi Arabia has nothing to hide.
PRINCE SAUD AL-FAISAL, SAUDI FOREIGN MINISTER: We believe that releasing the missing 28 pages would allow us to respond to any allegations in a clear and credible manner.
KOPPEL: Some Democrats accuse President Bush of playing politics, suggesting the White House wants to protect a key ally, Saudi Arabia, because it has the world's largest oil reserves and longstanding ties to the Bush family.
SEN. BOB GRAHAM (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The motivations here are more political than they are national security.
KOPPEL (on camera): Administration officials insist they are getting good cooperation from the Saudis in investigating the 9/11 attacks. As proof, they point to the green light they got from the Saudi foreign minister for the FBI to interview Omar Albayumi (ph), a Saudi national, identified in the report who befriended two of the 9/11 hijackers after they arrived in the U.S. and allegedly helped to finance their mission.
Andrea Koppel, CNN at the State Department.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: There is in the Pentagon an office that should be called the office of thinking outside the box. It is the place that came up with the idea basically tracking every financial transaction made then looking for patterns that a terrorist might use.
Then, this office came up with an idea, another one that seems at the very least utterly tasteless, set up a place where speculators could essentially wager on where the next terror attack will occur, a futures market if you will in terror.
In a minute we'll look at the method, and there is a compelling one, behind the apparent madness but first the reaction. Here's CNN's Bob Franken.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This program should be immediately disestablished.
BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Disestablished, that's Washington-speak for killing the program. Ever since disclosure Monday of the futures market applied to prediction Democrats, then Republicans too, have had a field day heaping scorn on Future Map (ph).
Starting Friday, skilled investors could have shared with the Pentagon their market analysis to predict and bet on things such as terrorist attacks and assassinations.
SEN. TOM DASCHLE (D-SD), MINORITY LEADER: For the life of me I can't believe that anybody would seriously propose that we trade in death.
FRANKEN: It became the incredible shrinking website. The chances to bet on the overthrow of the Jordanian king and the assassination of Yasser Arafat suddenly disappeared, too late.
SEN. PAT ROBERTS (R-KS), INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: This defies common sense. It's absurd.
PAUL WOLFOWITZ, DEPUTY DEFENSE SECRETARY: It sounds like maybe they got too imaginative in this area.
SEN. BYRON DORGAN (D-ND), APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE: Now the question is will they get rid of the people that conceived the program?
FRANKEN: There was a growing clamor for that. This was another exotic idea from the Pentagon's Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, DARPA, an idea supervised by retired Admiral John Poindexter.
Until recently Poindexter was mainly remembered as a major figure in the Reagan administration's Iran contra scandal. While he is definitely no stranger to controversy, his boss the head of DARPA, had been.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What will happen with Admiral Poindexter? Do you expect him to continue in his position?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't see why not.
LAWRENCE DE RITA, PENTAGON SPOKESMAN: At the moment, Admiral Poindexter continues to serve in DARPA.
FRANKEN (on camera): The military has quickly retreated. The Pentagon has canceled the program. Future Map has no future. That is the only safe bet.
Bob Franken, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: On the face of it a futures market in terror sounds like a hair-brained idea, strange (unintelligible) to be sure, unappetizing in the extreme, ill-timed, handed, the list goes on but does that necessarily make it wrong and doesn't somebody have to think these sort of things up given what's at stake? The second question, of course, has a political answer. The first is Economics 101.
Here's CNN's Jeff Greenfield.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SR. ANALYST (voice-over): Every day in trading pits like these fortunes are wagered on future prices of everything from gold to cotton to pork bellies. They are, in essence, bets on what will happen in the world. A hurricane in Florida means the price of oranges will rise. Long- term peace in Iraq means the price of oil is likely to fall.
(on camera): But, a market where people can invest in a terrorist attack or a political assassination, that must have been some dumb idea, right, a late night comedian's dream?
Wait a minute, not so fast. As it happens, these betting markets have a history and the most significant part of that history is that these markets have a remarkable track record in predicting what will happen. (voice-over): For instance, if you want to know which presidential candidate will carry Iowa, throw out the polls and check the Iowa electronic markets. People buy and sell shares based on how well a candidate will do and the results, the data show, are consistently closer to reality than scientific polls.
The Hollywood Stock Exchange, reliably outdoes industry experts in predicting box office grosses and does very well also in predicting who will be nominated for an Academy Award.
Web speculators got to trade on what date Saddam Hussein would fall on sites like newsfutures and Tradesports.
JAMES SUROWIECKI, "THE NEW YORKER": And if Saddam was gone by the end of April, 2003, you would get let's say $100.
GREENFIELD: Jim Surowiecki, "The New Yorker's" financial writer, says there are sound reasons why markets can predict events.
SUROWIECKI: It gives people an incentive to uncover and act on information. You know, one of the big problems within say a corporation or, again, like a government is that people are hesitant to tell everything they know because it might alienate their bosses, it might get them fired, it might, you know, et cetera, et cetera, and markets are very good at aggregating diverse sources of information.
GREENFIELD: So, why today's Pentagon PR disaster? Well, consider the source. The last brainchild of Admiral Poindexter after Iran Contra, was the Total Information Awareness Program. That idea was to gather enormous chunks of information on Americans. The Congress buried that one. And, no doubt there does seem to be something morbid about making money speculating on disaster.
SUROWIECKI: We pay people all the time to give us good information about terrible things happening. We pay CIA analysts to predict whether or not disasters are going to happen. We pay informants.
GREENFIELD (on camera): By the way, in case you were wondering, the payoff on these contracts would have been very small, far too small to persuade the bad guys to bet on a disaster and the go out to make it happen.
More important, the point of these contracts would not be to reward (unintelligible) for predicting disasters but to gather enough information to prevent them.
So, after the scorn and the laughter ask yourself this question. If a surge of betting activity had taken place in September two years ago on a hijacked airplane and a terror attack on American soil might that have persuaded the authorities to do something that could have prevented what happened?
Jeff Greenfield, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE) BROWN: Still ahead on NEWSNIGHT, rebuilding Iraq.
And, the storm on Capitol Hill today over the questions of what it will cost in the days and months and year ahead.
Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Stories from Iraq fill the World Roundup tonight, the first being the tape, another audio tape attributed to Saddam Hussein, the third this month, the fifth one so far broadcast today across the Arab world, five days after the U.S. military released photos of his two sons. And on it the voice, is it Saddam, acknowledges their death and calls them martyrs.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): If Saddam Hussein had the option to sacrifice other sons other than Uday and Qusay, Saddam Hussein would have sacrificed them the same honorable way. It is a our duty. It's a duty on every believer. Our freedom and patriotism call upon every believer to sacrifice himself. It must be of those believers who make history and testify to bravery.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: And, as for the search for, dad soldiers today arrested one of Saddam's bodyguards. He had many, but this one is said to have rarely left his side. Troops grabbed him in a series of early-morning raids in Tikrit. He put up some sort of struggle. When they blew open the door to the house he was in, he briefly tried to make a run for it, until someone tackled him. They came out of the house with their man and a number of documents they say that might help in the search for the boss.
Before troops went into Iraq, the defense secretary, Rumsfeld, called the cost of keeping them there unknowable. It was a staple of Pentagon briefings at the time, watching him fence with reporters on the issue, Mr. Rumsfeld all but saying he considered that questions of how many and how long and how much beneath even asking. That's how it works in Pentagon briefings, his turf, his rules. The rules change in an away game.
Here is CNN congressional correspondent Jonathan Karl.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JONATHAN KARL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The occupation and reconstruction of Iraq is a costly operation with no end in sight. But two senior Bush administration officials explained to a skeptical Senate committee that the president's budget for next year includes no money for Iraq.
JOSH BOLTEN, WHITE HOUSE BUDGET DIRECTOR: We have not included the incremental costs of our fighting forces in Iraq, nor the cost of reconstruction.
SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN (D), DELAWARE: Why?
BOLTEN: Simply because we don't know what they will be.
BIDEN: Oh, come on, now. Does anybody here at table think we're going to down below 100,000 forces in the next calendar year? Raise your hand, any one of you.
KARL: Even before the war, Democrats accused the Bush administration of underestimating the cost of rebuilding Iraq.
BIDEN: Give me a break, will you? When are going to you guys starting to be honest with us? Come on. This is ridiculous. You're not even...
PAUL WOLFOWITZ, DEPUTY DEFENSE SECRETARY: Senator, to suggest that this is an issue of honesty really is very misleading.
BIDEN: It is a suggestion of candor, of candor, of candor. You know there's going to be at least 100,000 American forces there for the next calendar year and you're not asking us for any money.
WOLFOWITZ: Senator, I don't know -- I don't know what we're going to have there.
BIDEN: Let me finish please. Let me finish.
WOLFOWITZ: OK.
BIDEN: And you are not asking us for any money in next year's budget for those troops. Now, what do you call that?
WOLFOWITZ: Senator, there will be a supplemental request, there is no question about that. And there will be a supplemental request when we think we can make a reasonably good estimate of what will get us through the whole year.
KARL: Wolfowitz, the intellectual architect of the president's Iraq policy, is a prime Democratic target. And Biden is a Democrat considering running for president. But Biden's outburst is a reflection of growing frustration on Capitol Hill over postwar Iraq. Republicans are looking for answers, too.
SEN. RICHARD LUGAR (R), INDIAN: We have at least some idea of what is likely to be required of the American taxpayer. Now, a failure to do this is going to lead, I believe, to a lot of partisan haggling, bad surprises.
KARL (on camera): The Pentagon also doesn't have an answer to the more difficult question of how long U.S. troops will be in Iraq, although Deputy Defense Secretary Wolfowitz made it clear, there will be no quick exit, pointing out that U.S. troops are still in Bosnia eight years after the peace accord that brought them there. And Iraq, he said, is a higher U.S. priority.
Jonathan Karl, CNN, Capitol Hill.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: And a quick program note: Senator Biden will be a guest tomorrow on "AMERICAN MORNING" with Soledad O'Brien and Bill Hemmer. That' tomorrow on "AMERICAN MORNING."
Still to come on NEWSNIGHT tonight: the Texas fugitives, Democrats fleeing the state to avoid a redistricting plan. And the father of a missing Indiana girl talks about his hopes for her safe return after nearly 17 years.
This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: And still ahead: politics, Texas style, and morning papers, NEWSNIGHT style.
A break first. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: New Mexico's governor, Bill Richardson, we must admit, sounded a bit like Julie the cruise director, thrilled to pull in some more tourists. "This is a wonderful time of year to visit the land of enchantment," he was quoted as saying. But these just aren't any tourists. They are Texas Democrats.
As their supporter Willie Nelson might say, they are on the road again, state senators this time fighting a GOP redistricting plan by hightailing it out of Austin for the amenities of the Albuquerque Marriott.
Here's CNN's Ed Lavandera.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When some 50 Texas House Democrats ran for the border two months ago, the feisty group stayed at a $70-a-night Holiday Inn in Ardmore, Oklahoma. But Texas state senators are said to have a more refined and dignified style. So these Democrats chose a more stately hideout: a Marriott hotel in downtown Albuquerque, New Mexico, $160 a night. The political bickering has cranked up against in Texas.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Democrats ought to come back and do their job.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is it is wrong. And we are prepared to fight that as long as we can stand on our feet.
LAVANDERA: Eleven Democratic state senators flew out of Austin on two private jets as soon as Texas Governor Rick Perry called a second special session to debate a government reorganization plan. Democrats say that's just a fancy way of pushing a congressional redistricting bill which would likely give Texas Republicans another five to seven seats in Congress.
ROYCE WEST (D), TEXAS STATE SENATOR: Redistricting is not a priority, that priorities in the state of Texas should be solving the public school finance problem, dealing with health and human service issues, dealing with our tax structure.
LAVANDERA: There are several redistricting maps on the table. Literally, some of those maps are still sitting on desks inside the Senate chamber, which has been locked while Democrats remain on the loose. Republicans say the Democrats should just stop running away from the redistricting issue.
TODD STAPLES (R), TEXAS STATE SENATOR: No Texas problem has ever been solved in New Mexico. Today, we are here to invite our colleagues to return to Texas. Come home. Join us at the table and help us draw a fair and balanced congressional redistricting map.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LAVANDERA: Now, only one Texas Senate Democrat did not make the trip to Albuquerque. The early nickname for the early 11 that did is the Texas 11. And they say they are willing to stay in New Mexico as long as it takes. The special session is supposed to last 30 days. They say they can stay there that long to make sure this redistricting doesn't pass through the Texas House of Representatives and the Texas Senate as well -- Aaron.
BROWN: Well, is there any reason why there then couldn't be another special session and another special session and another one?
LAVANDERA: You got it. Exactly. And that's what Republicans here in Texas are saying, that they should just stop running. At some point, they have to come back here and face the music, that they can just keep calling special sessions over and over again, if they have to.
BROWN: Ed, thank you very much -- Ed Lavandera in Austin tonight.
On now to the case we told you about last night from outside of Indianapolis, Indiana, a little girl who vanished more than a decade ago and the woman who now believes she might be that girl. Police continue to look into this woman's story. And one father proves to us that, while you can lose a child, you don't lose hope that you'll see that child again.
Here's CNN's David Mattingly.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Mike Sherrill of Tipton, Indiana, tries desperately to lose himself in his work, but it's not working. He can't eat, he can't sleep, and he can't stop wondering if the daughter he lost almost 17 years ago is, miraculously, about to come home. MIKE SHERRILL, FATHER OF ABDUCTED GIRL: They have a whole file cabinet full of leads and tips that they've checked out. And nothing has come this close.
MATTINGLY: Sherrill was stunned on Saturday when a woman called his ex-wife, saying she might be their daughter Shannon. Shannon was abducted in 1986, just 6 years old at the time. But faults leads and bad tips eventually led to more than 16 years of heartache and disappointment.
SHERRILL: I have never given up hope. I have always thought she was out there somewhere.
MATTINGLY: And this time, Sherrill says it's different, with the young woman providing authorities with information and recalling memories from the time of her possible abduction.
SHERRILL: Just a feeling that something's right. Does that make sense?
MATTINGLY (on camera): Making sense of this case is just what investigators hope to do. They are now following up on information from the young woman in two separate states. But they will not say if a DNA test is in the works, a test that could prove once and for all if this is the real Shannon Sherrill.
David Mattingly, CNN, Tipton, Indiana.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Coming up on NEWSNIGHT: Patrick Dennehy's murder and the questions being raised now about the basketball program at Baylor University.
A short break first. This is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: A few stories from around the country now, starting with politics in California and the recall that might also become a rematch. Republican Bill Simon dropped something bigger than a hint he's getting into the race to replace Governor Gray Davis. "When I'm governor," he said, "we won't have the type of sham budget they're talking about now." He was referring to the agreement reached today to close California's $38 billion budget deficit.
Firefighters in Montana are battling unpredictable weather, along with the flames. They spent the day setting up backfires before the winds kick up tomorrow. If all goes well, they'll have enough of a firebreak set up to keep a number of residential areas safe from flames, which have already charred about 12,000 acres so far.
And in Brooklyn today, mourners crowded outside the church where funeral services were held for New York City Councilman James Davis. Councilman Davis, you will recall, was shot to death last week at City Hall. His assassin was killed moments later by a New York City police officer. New York's Mayor Bloomberg spoke at services, calling Councilman Davis a man who tried to make New York a better place.
The death of Baylor University basketball player Patrick Dennehy is a tragedy, pure and simple, but it has also spawned to controversy. Has Baylor skirted the rules? Have players been slipped cash? Is there a drug players, other questions? In some respects, the usual stuff, except Baylor is not supposed to be the usual university. It's a Baptist university.
Writing in today's "New York Times," columnist Selena Roberts wondered if the university was essentially leading a double life, advertising itself as special because it's a religious school, while falling prey to the same temptations that come with winning at all costs.
Ms. Roberts joins us tonight from Las Vegas.
Nice to see you. Thanks for being with us.
How much evidence, actual evidence, is there of players being slipped money or drug usage among the basketball players and the like?
SELENA ROBERTS, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": Well, it's kind of a delicate situation, Aaron, because you have the death of Patrick Dennehy. And he really is the ultimate witness to a lot of this. And you don't have that witness now. And so you have to rely a lot on hearsay, what Patrick may have said to his father, what he may have said to his girlfriend, what he may have said to his family members, and the same for Carlton Dotson, the man who is accused of killing Patrick.
And so you have a situation where there is a lot of hearsay and a lot of stories being told. And that's what's going to have to bear out in its investigation. And Baylor is investigating himself right now with this three-member panel. So we will see how easy it is for them to get to the truth when there is so much out there that is unknown because of Patrick's death.
BROWN: A couple more questions on the facts. Then I want to get to the article you wrote -- or the column you wrote today.
Do the alleged improprieties extend beyond the two young men who have become the center of the story, Dennehy, who was murdered, and Dotson, who's accused?
ROBERTS: Well, right now, it's just focused on those two.
The issue of player cash could be team-wide. Who knows. But that has been alleged, as far as what Patrick received. And there are people who will say that Patrick received money to help him buy an SUV. And there are other people who say there is a team drug wide -- a team drug problem that goes beyond Patrick and Carlton, that maybe there was a bigger issue there than any of the officials have led on or have disclosed to this point.
BROWN: Now, let's get to the column this morning, because it was very tough. I mean, basically, you are making the argument that Baylor ought to be, and in fact says it is, held to a higher standard because it's a religious university.
ROBERTS: Yes.
I think that what I'm saying is that, when you recruit a player, when a coach like Dave Bliss goes into a household, he's going into a household not just as any university. He's going into a household and he is basically touting the Christian heritage of Baylor University. So he is sort of putting himself above maybe the other universities, in that: This is a place of family values. This is a place where we are going to take care of your son. This is a place where we are going to say that, if you have a problem, you come to us and things will be taken care of. We're not going to let your son fall through the cracks.
And now, when you see what has happening in the aftermath of Patrick's death, you see that maybe some things did fall through the cracks. And so where are the values now? And that are -- the questions that are being raised. It doesn't mean that they are guilty of any of these things, of the allegations yet, because the investigation hasn't happened. But you do have questions concerning whether or not Baylor, who was trying to right itself after past probation for the NCAA, is now putting itself in a position of trying, we are above it, but maybe we're not.
The questions are saying right now, we're not above it.
BROWN: When you wrote the column, when you were finished writing it, did you look at it and say, this is really tough; this is harsh?
ROBERTS: Yes, I do think you have to worry. When you write something, you say to yourself, it's a religious issue, too. That's very delicate. And I do think that you do think and say to yourself, is this the right thing at this time?
But I think that I took my cue a little bit from the press conference that Dave Bliss gave. And in the press conference, he does say that he's a Christian man, that this is an upstanding university that stands for values. And so he's putting that out there again. And, like I say, it's a different kind of recruiting tool. And that makes it very delicate. And it makes it very tough. And I did receive several angry e-mails today from people who are wondering, why would you take on religion in a sport's column? But I do think, in this situation, it's appropriate.
BROWN: They were saying, look -- were they saying: Mr. Bliss has to coach -- Bliss has to win, too. He has -- to keep his job, he has to play by the same rules as everyone else. It's not really fair to hold him on to a different standard? Was that was the argument?
ROBERTS: Well, I think he holds himself to a different standard.
I think he does go into these homes and he does tout Baylor University for being a Baptist school, for being a school that does have values. And I do think that, now, when you look at some of the accusations, was there trouble in Carlton Dotson's life that he was aware or his staff was aware of that they basically ignored? Were there problems with Patrick Dennehy that they ignored?
Those are issues where, if you are tight-knit, close and you're living by the law of Baylor University and you're trying to right yourself, you should know your players. You should know what your players are involved in. And those are the accusations that are flying right now.
BROWN: Would any of this have come out had it not been for the tragedy of Dennehy's death?
ROBERTS: Absolutely not.
I think that that's an issue -- if you are talking about what goes on at every university, I think that a lot of universities would have difficulties if a player on a team dies and there is an emotionally charged issue, where people are wondering, what happened, who didn't see the warning signs, who did not look at the red flags. You are going to have family members who are angry, who may say things, like: The coaches should have known. They should have known what was going on.
And then you may have people make claims that have been made in this case.
BROWN: It's good to see you. Nice to have you on the program. It was a very provocative article, as many of your columns are, a terrific writer. And we're glad to have you. Thank you very much.
ROBERTS: Thank you, Aaron. Appreciate it.
BROWN: Thank you, Selena Roberts of "The New York Times."
Still ahead on NEWSNIGHT: morning papers, which, oddly enough, includes "The New York Times."
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Okeydokey, time to take a look at morning papers from around the country and around the world, tomorrow morning's papers, except for the first one, which, in this case, is today's "New York Times," which we didn't have last night. But had we, honestly, we would have caught this. OK, this is great.
This is not a big deal, but it's what people have been talking about in the journalism business today. Front page of "The Times." "Bob Hope, Master of One-Liners and Friend to G.I.s Dies at 100." And then I don't know if you can see this, but there is a very straightforward lead, basically that he died of pneumonia. And then the obituary, "Road to Ubiquity," by Vincent Canby. OK, what is interesting about this? Mr. Canby died in the year 2000. It might have been 2001.
But he covered the arts for "The Times," forever, it seemed like. And he wrote a great obituary. And they ran it. Some people thought that was wrong, but I am not one of them.
One other thing from "The Times," by the way, while I think about it. See this story: "Gay-Themed TV Gains a Wider Audience." That's in today's "New York Times," a look at all the gay-themed programs that are TV on broadcast and cable. Same story, but very different kind of edge to it in "The Washington Times" down at the bottom here. "Homosexuality Seen as Accepted by Media."
For one thing, "The Washington Times" -- I believe this is still true -- if it's not, I apologize -- never uses the word gay or rarely uses the word gay. They always say homosexuality. And "The Times" clearly does not. And, anyway, a couple of things there.
OK, that killed a minute. How does that happen? I ran out of time so quickly.
"Chicago Sun-Times." Yippie, the weather tomorrow. "Bush Won't Budge on a Secret September 11 Report." We told you about this earlier. This picture, this is a former security chief in Tikrit. And after an extensive search, they found him at his home. OK?
No great powerful national story. "The San Francisco Chronicle" leads local. "Assembly Passes Budget" way up there. And "Actor's Decision May Come Today," the Schwarzenegger decision. All week, people have been saying he's not going to run. And I'll bet you he doesn't.
"The Miami Herald," a lot of the expected stories. Down here, a political story: "Lieberman Rips Bush in Attempt to Woo Cubans." Big story down there, the Cuban vote and whether you can get it.
And quickly, "Gotcha" is "The Times Record." Sunday? How did the Sunday paper get in there?
We'll see you tomorrow. That's NEWSNIGHT. Good night for all of us.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Beating Case in Inglewood; Texas Democrats Flee State>
Aired July 29, 2003 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again, everyone.
There was a strange confluence of stories today, the first we are to agree, I suppose, used to a new terror warning issued.
The second had to do with a Pentagon plan to essentially open a futures market on terror. People could place a wager on where terrorists would hit or who they would hit, the idea being that futures markets tend to get things right. They tend to be right on oil supply or cotton prices so why not terror?
If there was ever a day when the new normal seemed totally abnormal today was it and it's where we begin the whip. Jeanne Meserve in Washington with details of a new terror threat which sounds frighteningly like an old one, Jeanne the headline.
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, possible airline hijackings, possibly this summer, possibly against targets overseas or the U.S., and the intelligence indicates details that indicate the terrorists too learned lessons from September 11 -- Aaron.
BROWN: Jeanne, thank you, we'll get to you at the top tonight.
A dramatic day in a southern California courtroom, the outcome of a high profile police brutality case, Dan Lothian on the story for us, Dan a headline.
DAN LOTHIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, the verdicts were highly anticipated. The outcome was quite a surprise, one not guilty, the other hopelessly deadlocked -- Aaron.
BROWN: Dan, thank you.
Another protest by Texas Democrats fighting a Republic redistricting plan, yes, that story is back. Ed Lavandera is in Austin, Texas, so Ed your headline tonight.
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Aaron.
Well, Texas Democrats continue their tour of the southwest states. The first stop was Ardmore, Oklahoma. This time it's Albuquerque, New Mexico, and they're singing the same tune. They don't like redistricting -- Aaron.
BROWN: Ed, thank you, back to you shortly. Also coming up tonight on NEWSNIGHT, more on that idea of what had a stream of critics saying what were they thinking? The futures market to bet on terror, we'll look at the political fallout but we'll also look at the economic rationale that helps explain where this idea, tasteless though it may be, came from.
The Indiana father who never gave up hope of finding his daughter, more than a decade after she disappeared he says he's never felt so close to finding her after a grown woman came forward to say she may be his little girl.
And, the least predictable two and a half minutes of NEWSNIGHT perhaps in all of television, our look through the morning papers, tomorrow morning's papers from around the country and around the world as well, all of that and more in the hour ahead.
We begin with the latest terror warning. Unlike so many we've reported on in the last two years or so it doesn't concern anything too difficult to imagine. Instead, in language that is both typically vague and chillingly specific it warns of the possibility of the unimaginable happening all over again.
We begin tonight with CNN's Jeanne Meserve.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MESERVE (voice-over): There has not been a domestic hijacking since 9/11 but the government says Islamic extremists could be planning others before the end of the summer in the U.S. or against U.S. interests abroad.
GORDON ENGLAND, DEPUTY SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY: They're a determined foe and they're going to try to do everything they can to defeat the systems we put in place.
MESERVE: A Department of Homeland Security advisory sent to the aviation community says: "Attack venues may include the United Kingdom, Italy, Australia, or the East Cost of the United States due to the relatively high concentration of government, military, and economic targets."
That the hijackers may use flights that transit through the target countries to avoid the need for visas. That the plan may involve the use of five man teams that would attempt to seize control of an aircraft near takeoff or landing that could preclude the need for flight trained hijackers.
That the hijackers could try to calm passengers and make them believe they are on a hostage, not suicide, mission and that the hijackers may attempt to use items carried by travelers, such as cameras, modified as weapons.
The information was gleaned over the last several weeks from interrogations of high level al Qaeda detainees and electronic intercepts, sources say. SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The advisory was sent out so that the appropriate security personnel can be informed and take necessary steps and they will take the appropriate steps.
MESERVE: The State Department issued a worldwide caution late Monday citing the hijacking threat and officials will decide this week whether to stop letting passengers transit through the U.S. without a visa.
Since 9/11, much money and effort has been spent on aviation security, including the installation of bulletproof cockpit doors, the federalization of passenger and baggage screening, and the deployment of thousands of air marshals.
STEVE POMERANTZ, FORMER FBI COUNTERTERRORISM OFFICIAL: The main reason I think that they would attack an airliner, it's something the know how to do and it's dramatic. The reasons that they may not include the fact that there's been much greater security.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MESERVE: One official ranks the credibility of the intelligence as a six or seven on a scale of ten but there is no plan to raise the terror threat level in part because no equipment or operatives are known to have been deployed to carry out the plans -- Aaron.
BROWN: Well, I want to try to do three if I can. Six or seven on a scale of ten, compare that to the quality of intelligence when they do raise the threat level.
MESERVE: Well, in this instance it isn't only about the quality of the intelligence. It's also about the specificity of the threat. Raising the threat level causes a lot of angst. It also costs a lot of money for the sectors involved and also state and local governments.
So, the federal government is not apt to jockey around that threat level without considerable consideration. Their feeling is that this threat is specific to the airline industry and within that industry there already is a heightened level of security far above and beyond what you see in any other sector of industry and so they felt that simply issuing this warning, this advisory, would be sufficient.
BROWN: And has there been any reaction from the airline industry, which has never really or has yet to recover from 9/11 and the aftermath?
MESERVE: Well, I talked to one airport official today who said there have been so many warnings that it's hard to get very worked up about this one. He also offered the thought that the Department of Homeland Security is apt to err on the side of caution with all of these advisories. He says what if, God forbid, something happened and they hadn't put out this information? There would, in his words, "be hell to pay."
BROWN: Jeanne, thank you very much, Jeanne Meserve in Washington tonight.
And, on we go. That story, obviously, brings back memories of two years ago. This story, a story about police brutality reminds many of the Rodney King incident now a decade ago.
A jury in Los Angeles had to decide what a piece of amateur videotape revealed. Did it show an out of control cop beating a Black teenager, violating the law, or did it hide as much as it revealed? There was fear of what might happen if the man accused of the beating was acquitted. He wasn't but critics say justice is yet to be done.
Reporting for us, CNN's Dan Lothian.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LOTHIAN (voice-over): On the fourth day of deliberations the jury spoke, a voice that was far from unanimous.
JUDGE WILLIAM HOLLINGSWORTH, JR.: We are deadlocked on Count 1 and I see no further change in alignment.
LOTHIAN: Seven jurors concluded former Inglewood police officer Jeremy Morse was guilty in the videotaped assault of 16-year-old Donovan Jackson a little more than a year ago, five concluded he was not guilty, in legal terms a hung jury.
JOHN BARNETT, ATTORNEY FOR MORSE: My client is disappointed as am I that a verdict was not reached but I remain convinced of his innocence.
LOTHIAN: The jury was convinced of co-defendant Bijan Darvish's innocence for filing a false police report.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We the jury in the above-entitled action find the defendant, Bijan Darvish, not guilty of the crime of filing a...
RONALD BROWER, ATTORNEY OR DARVISH: Well, he was relieved and his family was relieved. It's been a terrible ordeal for them this whole year going through this.
LOTHIAN: It was a dramatic pause in a controversial case, a pause because the attorney for Donovan Jackson says the fight for justice is not over.
CAMERON STEWART, DONOVAN JACKSON'S ATTORNEY: We do think that this was a case of excessive force by Jeremy Morse. We do think that this case should definitely be retried.
LOTHIAN: But the District Attorney's Office says it's too early to make a decision.
SANDI GIBBONS, DA SPOKESWOMAN: We're going to take a look at the whole case and make a determination on whether the case should be retried.
LOTHIAN: Outside the courthouse community activists were outraged.
NAJI ALI: These officers were both guilty and they should have been found guilty so it's a slap in the face.
LOTHIAN: And this from customers watching the verdicts at an Inglewood restaurant.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I seen the videotape it's clearly misconduct of police officers.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I believe strongly that you got to trust in the 12 citizens who allow themselves to become jurors to take on their responsibility.
LOTHIAN: Despite anger in the community a call for peace. This prayer vigil in Inglewood just one attempt by activists to make certain strong feelings don't lead to unrest.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LOTHIAN: Donovan Jackson's attorney says that she still plans to continue with civil action. Morse's attorney says he plans to ask the court to have this case dismissed altogether, and the District Attorney's Office says that the decision on whether or not to retry this case will be made by September 22 -- Aaron.
BROWN: And, Dan, in southern California tonight is it quiet?
LOTHIAN: Right now, Aaron, it is quiet and activists out in the community are hoping that it will stay that way.
BROWN: And is there any reason to believe -- well, let me ask this differently. What was the racial makeup of the jury?
LOTHIAN: There was one African American on that jury, a 19-year- old male.
BROWN: And the rest were all Caucasians?
LOTHIAN: The rest of them were mostly Caucasian. There were about three or four who were Hispanics.
BROWN: Dan, thank you, Dan Lothian out in California tonight.
Jeffrey Toobin, our legal analyst, is here with more on that. From what you -- it's hard in this not to at least approach the subject of race. Is there anything you've heard that suggests that race was a factor in how the jury did its business?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I'll tell you one thing Dan Lothian told me before we went on the air. That one Black juror during jury deliberations, which were obviously very contentious and went on for quite a long time for a fairly straightforward case, during jury deliberations came to court wearing a Kobe Bryant jersey.
BROWN: Oh. TOOBIN: Which he interpreted as kind of an act of sort of racial solidarity with the victim in this case and I think Dan is exactly right. I think it's just sort of an amazing thing to think about that Kobe Bryant in the past month has become that kind of symbol but it also was a reminder that this was a very racially charged case and it remains that way in this uncomfortable ending that is reached.
BROWN: It also just as an aside suggests how people are going to view the Bryant case when ultimately that gets to trial.
TOOBIN: It's just a coming attraction absolutely.
BROWN: You're the prosecutor, what are you thinking? What are the factors in whether you retry this case and to what degree do you take into account the community's feelings?
TOOBIN: If this were a completely anonymous case I think it would be very obvious what to do, try to work out a plea bargain to a misdemeanor, get rid of the case, don't retry it. I think that's very unlikely to happen because of the reaction you've seen.
The community is very concerned, very upset for good reason given the magnitude of this incident. I think the case is going to be retried and even though when you have five people voting for acquittal that's a sign that you got real problems in the case and a second try might not work but you've got to try it a second time.
BROWN: Who learns more in a trial? Does the prosecution -- will the prosecution have benefited from seeing the defense lay out its case or will it be the defense that has benefited from seeing the prosecution or is it a wash?
TOOBIN: The folklore is it's better for the defense because the cases tend not to get better with age. Witnesses' memories get worse. You can cross-examine based on the transcript in the first case. It's generally considered better for the defense to do it all over again.
BROWN: But the principal witness in this case, if you will, is the piece of tape. Does it not help the prosecution to know how the defense went about attacking, if you will, that tape?
TOOBIN: That's true. It will help but, you know, the tape is pretty darn convincing now, at least to most people, didn't work this week in L.A. and, you know, it might not work a week from now.
BROWN: There's an art, it seems to me. I mean if you look at how the Rodney King case was tried a decade ago and I've heard you talk tonight a fair amount about how this case in many ways was defended in much the same way, a kind of frame-by-frame analysis which has always struck me at least as it takes the power of the tape away.
TOOBIN: Absolutely and it's intended to do just that because all of us who, you know, aren't professionally involved in that case we look at it and we say, oh gosh, how can it be anything but guilty?
But if you go second by second and put the officer's interpretation in front of the jury of each thing that happened, and remember there are other surveillance videos there as well, so it's not just the one angle and the claim by the defense was that Mr. Jackson, the young victim, was some how assaulting him, was fighting back.
BROWN: You know it's that shot, that first shot where they just, to me, where they toss him on the car. Now later the punch comes in but it's that first one that gets me.
TOOBIN: And the thing that's so interesting the amateur videotape...
BROWN: Yes.
TOOBIN: ...you can hear in some playing of it the voice of the person who's taking it and he goes, oh, because and it's exactly the natural reaction all of us feel when we hear that because it is just such an awful thing to see this kid slammed his face into that trunk but the jury didn't buy it.
BROWN: What was he arrested for?
TOOBIN: He was never arrested. I mean that was -- there was an investigation for I believe expired tags but there was never an arrest made.
BROWN: License plate.
TOOBIN: License plate, yes.
BROWN: Were you surprised?
TOOBIN: Yes, I was, although interestingly Dan, who covered the case...
BROWN: You were surprised despite the fact that the deliberation went on for three days?
TOOBIN: Well, let's -- by after three days you know that there are real problems there.
BROWN: Right.
TOOBIN: But, I mean, if you would have asked me at the beginning of the trial would I have been surprised at a hung jury, absolutely yes. By the end today I wasn't but I didn't want to give myself credit for more knowledge than I had.
BROWN: And, you were about to say, in 15 seconds, Dan who was in the courtroom for most of it?
TOOBIN: Was not surprised. He thought the case did not go well for the prosecution and so he was -- he thought this was coming.
BROWN: Thanks. It is to me, I mean, when you see it play out it's just all sort of fascinating. TOOBIN: And it ain't over.
BROWN: It ain't over. I guess we'll do this again. Thank you, Mr. Toobin.
TOOBIN: OK.
BROWN: Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, we'll go back to the war on terror story, a controversial, to say the least, Pentagon program aimed at predicting terror attacks.
And later in the program, the Baylor basketball program under fire after one of its players is murdered, take a break first.
From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Two items today that speak to the complicated, sometimes awkward relationship between the United States and Saudi Arabia. An administration official tells CNN's John King that the Saudi foreign minister has promised to allow the FBI to finally question the Saudi subject with ties to some of the 9/11 hijackers. The apparent concession came despite a firm no from President Bush on something the Saudis badly wanted.
Here's CNN's Andrea Koppel.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT: Request denied. Hours before a hastily arranged meeting with the Saudi foreign minister, President Bush rejected a Saudi demand to declassify some of the recently released congressional report on the 9/11 terrorist attacks.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There's an ongoing investigation into the 9/11 attacks and we don't want to compromise that investigation.
KOPPEL: At the heart of the Saudi kingdom's concern, one blacked out section in an 800-page report focusing on the role foreign governments played in the hijackings.
Sources familiar with the censored section say it includes evidence senior members of the Saudi royal family assisted some of the hijackers. Foreign Minister Saud al-Faisal said his government has been indicted by insinuation and said Saudi Arabia has nothing to hide.
PRINCE SAUD AL-FAISAL, SAUDI FOREIGN MINISTER: We believe that releasing the missing 28 pages would allow us to respond to any allegations in a clear and credible manner.
KOPPEL: Some Democrats accuse President Bush of playing politics, suggesting the White House wants to protect a key ally, Saudi Arabia, because it has the world's largest oil reserves and longstanding ties to the Bush family.
SEN. BOB GRAHAM (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The motivations here are more political than they are national security.
KOPPEL (on camera): Administration officials insist they are getting good cooperation from the Saudis in investigating the 9/11 attacks. As proof, they point to the green light they got from the Saudi foreign minister for the FBI to interview Omar Albayumi (ph), a Saudi national, identified in the report who befriended two of the 9/11 hijackers after they arrived in the U.S. and allegedly helped to finance their mission.
Andrea Koppel, CNN at the State Department.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: There is in the Pentagon an office that should be called the office of thinking outside the box. It is the place that came up with the idea basically tracking every financial transaction made then looking for patterns that a terrorist might use.
Then, this office came up with an idea, another one that seems at the very least utterly tasteless, set up a place where speculators could essentially wager on where the next terror attack will occur, a futures market if you will in terror.
In a minute we'll look at the method, and there is a compelling one, behind the apparent madness but first the reaction. Here's CNN's Bob Franken.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This program should be immediately disestablished.
BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Disestablished, that's Washington-speak for killing the program. Ever since disclosure Monday of the futures market applied to prediction Democrats, then Republicans too, have had a field day heaping scorn on Future Map (ph).
Starting Friday, skilled investors could have shared with the Pentagon their market analysis to predict and bet on things such as terrorist attacks and assassinations.
SEN. TOM DASCHLE (D-SD), MINORITY LEADER: For the life of me I can't believe that anybody would seriously propose that we trade in death.
FRANKEN: It became the incredible shrinking website. The chances to bet on the overthrow of the Jordanian king and the assassination of Yasser Arafat suddenly disappeared, too late.
SEN. PAT ROBERTS (R-KS), INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: This defies common sense. It's absurd.
PAUL WOLFOWITZ, DEPUTY DEFENSE SECRETARY: It sounds like maybe they got too imaginative in this area.
SEN. BYRON DORGAN (D-ND), APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE: Now the question is will they get rid of the people that conceived the program?
FRANKEN: There was a growing clamor for that. This was another exotic idea from the Pentagon's Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, DARPA, an idea supervised by retired Admiral John Poindexter.
Until recently Poindexter was mainly remembered as a major figure in the Reagan administration's Iran contra scandal. While he is definitely no stranger to controversy, his boss the head of DARPA, had been.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What will happen with Admiral Poindexter? Do you expect him to continue in his position?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't see why not.
LAWRENCE DE RITA, PENTAGON SPOKESMAN: At the moment, Admiral Poindexter continues to serve in DARPA.
FRANKEN (on camera): The military has quickly retreated. The Pentagon has canceled the program. Future Map has no future. That is the only safe bet.
Bob Franken, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: On the face of it a futures market in terror sounds like a hair-brained idea, strange (unintelligible) to be sure, unappetizing in the extreme, ill-timed, handed, the list goes on but does that necessarily make it wrong and doesn't somebody have to think these sort of things up given what's at stake? The second question, of course, has a political answer. The first is Economics 101.
Here's CNN's Jeff Greenfield.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SR. ANALYST (voice-over): Every day in trading pits like these fortunes are wagered on future prices of everything from gold to cotton to pork bellies. They are, in essence, bets on what will happen in the world. A hurricane in Florida means the price of oranges will rise. Long- term peace in Iraq means the price of oil is likely to fall.
(on camera): But, a market where people can invest in a terrorist attack or a political assassination, that must have been some dumb idea, right, a late night comedian's dream?
Wait a minute, not so fast. As it happens, these betting markets have a history and the most significant part of that history is that these markets have a remarkable track record in predicting what will happen. (voice-over): For instance, if you want to know which presidential candidate will carry Iowa, throw out the polls and check the Iowa electronic markets. People buy and sell shares based on how well a candidate will do and the results, the data show, are consistently closer to reality than scientific polls.
The Hollywood Stock Exchange, reliably outdoes industry experts in predicting box office grosses and does very well also in predicting who will be nominated for an Academy Award.
Web speculators got to trade on what date Saddam Hussein would fall on sites like newsfutures and Tradesports.
JAMES SUROWIECKI, "THE NEW YORKER": And if Saddam was gone by the end of April, 2003, you would get let's say $100.
GREENFIELD: Jim Surowiecki, "The New Yorker's" financial writer, says there are sound reasons why markets can predict events.
SUROWIECKI: It gives people an incentive to uncover and act on information. You know, one of the big problems within say a corporation or, again, like a government is that people are hesitant to tell everything they know because it might alienate their bosses, it might get them fired, it might, you know, et cetera, et cetera, and markets are very good at aggregating diverse sources of information.
GREENFIELD: So, why today's Pentagon PR disaster? Well, consider the source. The last brainchild of Admiral Poindexter after Iran Contra, was the Total Information Awareness Program. That idea was to gather enormous chunks of information on Americans. The Congress buried that one. And, no doubt there does seem to be something morbid about making money speculating on disaster.
SUROWIECKI: We pay people all the time to give us good information about terrible things happening. We pay CIA analysts to predict whether or not disasters are going to happen. We pay informants.
GREENFIELD (on camera): By the way, in case you were wondering, the payoff on these contracts would have been very small, far too small to persuade the bad guys to bet on a disaster and the go out to make it happen.
More important, the point of these contracts would not be to reward (unintelligible) for predicting disasters but to gather enough information to prevent them.
So, after the scorn and the laughter ask yourself this question. If a surge of betting activity had taken place in September two years ago on a hijacked airplane and a terror attack on American soil might that have persuaded the authorities to do something that could have prevented what happened?
Jeff Greenfield, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE) BROWN: Still ahead on NEWSNIGHT, rebuilding Iraq.
And, the storm on Capitol Hill today over the questions of what it will cost in the days and months and year ahead.
Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Stories from Iraq fill the World Roundup tonight, the first being the tape, another audio tape attributed to Saddam Hussein, the third this month, the fifth one so far broadcast today across the Arab world, five days after the U.S. military released photos of his two sons. And on it the voice, is it Saddam, acknowledges their death and calls them martyrs.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): If Saddam Hussein had the option to sacrifice other sons other than Uday and Qusay, Saddam Hussein would have sacrificed them the same honorable way. It is a our duty. It's a duty on every believer. Our freedom and patriotism call upon every believer to sacrifice himself. It must be of those believers who make history and testify to bravery.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: And, as for the search for, dad soldiers today arrested one of Saddam's bodyguards. He had many, but this one is said to have rarely left his side. Troops grabbed him in a series of early-morning raids in Tikrit. He put up some sort of struggle. When they blew open the door to the house he was in, he briefly tried to make a run for it, until someone tackled him. They came out of the house with their man and a number of documents they say that might help in the search for the boss.
Before troops went into Iraq, the defense secretary, Rumsfeld, called the cost of keeping them there unknowable. It was a staple of Pentagon briefings at the time, watching him fence with reporters on the issue, Mr. Rumsfeld all but saying he considered that questions of how many and how long and how much beneath even asking. That's how it works in Pentagon briefings, his turf, his rules. The rules change in an away game.
Here is CNN congressional correspondent Jonathan Karl.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JONATHAN KARL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The occupation and reconstruction of Iraq is a costly operation with no end in sight. But two senior Bush administration officials explained to a skeptical Senate committee that the president's budget for next year includes no money for Iraq.
JOSH BOLTEN, WHITE HOUSE BUDGET DIRECTOR: We have not included the incremental costs of our fighting forces in Iraq, nor the cost of reconstruction.
SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN (D), DELAWARE: Why?
BOLTEN: Simply because we don't know what they will be.
BIDEN: Oh, come on, now. Does anybody here at table think we're going to down below 100,000 forces in the next calendar year? Raise your hand, any one of you.
KARL: Even before the war, Democrats accused the Bush administration of underestimating the cost of rebuilding Iraq.
BIDEN: Give me a break, will you? When are going to you guys starting to be honest with us? Come on. This is ridiculous. You're not even...
PAUL WOLFOWITZ, DEPUTY DEFENSE SECRETARY: Senator, to suggest that this is an issue of honesty really is very misleading.
BIDEN: It is a suggestion of candor, of candor, of candor. You know there's going to be at least 100,000 American forces there for the next calendar year and you're not asking us for any money.
WOLFOWITZ: Senator, I don't know -- I don't know what we're going to have there.
BIDEN: Let me finish please. Let me finish.
WOLFOWITZ: OK.
BIDEN: And you are not asking us for any money in next year's budget for those troops. Now, what do you call that?
WOLFOWITZ: Senator, there will be a supplemental request, there is no question about that. And there will be a supplemental request when we think we can make a reasonably good estimate of what will get us through the whole year.
KARL: Wolfowitz, the intellectual architect of the president's Iraq policy, is a prime Democratic target. And Biden is a Democrat considering running for president. But Biden's outburst is a reflection of growing frustration on Capitol Hill over postwar Iraq. Republicans are looking for answers, too.
SEN. RICHARD LUGAR (R), INDIAN: We have at least some idea of what is likely to be required of the American taxpayer. Now, a failure to do this is going to lead, I believe, to a lot of partisan haggling, bad surprises.
KARL (on camera): The Pentagon also doesn't have an answer to the more difficult question of how long U.S. troops will be in Iraq, although Deputy Defense Secretary Wolfowitz made it clear, there will be no quick exit, pointing out that U.S. troops are still in Bosnia eight years after the peace accord that brought them there. And Iraq, he said, is a higher U.S. priority.
Jonathan Karl, CNN, Capitol Hill.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: And a quick program note: Senator Biden will be a guest tomorrow on "AMERICAN MORNING" with Soledad O'Brien and Bill Hemmer. That' tomorrow on "AMERICAN MORNING."
Still to come on NEWSNIGHT tonight: the Texas fugitives, Democrats fleeing the state to avoid a redistricting plan. And the father of a missing Indiana girl talks about his hopes for her safe return after nearly 17 years.
This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: And still ahead: politics, Texas style, and morning papers, NEWSNIGHT style.
A break first. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: New Mexico's governor, Bill Richardson, we must admit, sounded a bit like Julie the cruise director, thrilled to pull in some more tourists. "This is a wonderful time of year to visit the land of enchantment," he was quoted as saying. But these just aren't any tourists. They are Texas Democrats.
As their supporter Willie Nelson might say, they are on the road again, state senators this time fighting a GOP redistricting plan by hightailing it out of Austin for the amenities of the Albuquerque Marriott.
Here's CNN's Ed Lavandera.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When some 50 Texas House Democrats ran for the border two months ago, the feisty group stayed at a $70-a-night Holiday Inn in Ardmore, Oklahoma. But Texas state senators are said to have a more refined and dignified style. So these Democrats chose a more stately hideout: a Marriott hotel in downtown Albuquerque, New Mexico, $160 a night. The political bickering has cranked up against in Texas.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Democrats ought to come back and do their job.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is it is wrong. And we are prepared to fight that as long as we can stand on our feet.
LAVANDERA: Eleven Democratic state senators flew out of Austin on two private jets as soon as Texas Governor Rick Perry called a second special session to debate a government reorganization plan. Democrats say that's just a fancy way of pushing a congressional redistricting bill which would likely give Texas Republicans another five to seven seats in Congress.
ROYCE WEST (D), TEXAS STATE SENATOR: Redistricting is not a priority, that priorities in the state of Texas should be solving the public school finance problem, dealing with health and human service issues, dealing with our tax structure.
LAVANDERA: There are several redistricting maps on the table. Literally, some of those maps are still sitting on desks inside the Senate chamber, which has been locked while Democrats remain on the loose. Republicans say the Democrats should just stop running away from the redistricting issue.
TODD STAPLES (R), TEXAS STATE SENATOR: No Texas problem has ever been solved in New Mexico. Today, we are here to invite our colleagues to return to Texas. Come home. Join us at the table and help us draw a fair and balanced congressional redistricting map.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LAVANDERA: Now, only one Texas Senate Democrat did not make the trip to Albuquerque. The early nickname for the early 11 that did is the Texas 11. And they say they are willing to stay in New Mexico as long as it takes. The special session is supposed to last 30 days. They say they can stay there that long to make sure this redistricting doesn't pass through the Texas House of Representatives and the Texas Senate as well -- Aaron.
BROWN: Well, is there any reason why there then couldn't be another special session and another special session and another one?
LAVANDERA: You got it. Exactly. And that's what Republicans here in Texas are saying, that they should just stop running. At some point, they have to come back here and face the music, that they can just keep calling special sessions over and over again, if they have to.
BROWN: Ed, thank you very much -- Ed Lavandera in Austin tonight.
On now to the case we told you about last night from outside of Indianapolis, Indiana, a little girl who vanished more than a decade ago and the woman who now believes she might be that girl. Police continue to look into this woman's story. And one father proves to us that, while you can lose a child, you don't lose hope that you'll see that child again.
Here's CNN's David Mattingly.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Mike Sherrill of Tipton, Indiana, tries desperately to lose himself in his work, but it's not working. He can't eat, he can't sleep, and he can't stop wondering if the daughter he lost almost 17 years ago is, miraculously, about to come home. MIKE SHERRILL, FATHER OF ABDUCTED GIRL: They have a whole file cabinet full of leads and tips that they've checked out. And nothing has come this close.
MATTINGLY: Sherrill was stunned on Saturday when a woman called his ex-wife, saying she might be their daughter Shannon. Shannon was abducted in 1986, just 6 years old at the time. But faults leads and bad tips eventually led to more than 16 years of heartache and disappointment.
SHERRILL: I have never given up hope. I have always thought she was out there somewhere.
MATTINGLY: And this time, Sherrill says it's different, with the young woman providing authorities with information and recalling memories from the time of her possible abduction.
SHERRILL: Just a feeling that something's right. Does that make sense?
MATTINGLY (on camera): Making sense of this case is just what investigators hope to do. They are now following up on information from the young woman in two separate states. But they will not say if a DNA test is in the works, a test that could prove once and for all if this is the real Shannon Sherrill.
David Mattingly, CNN, Tipton, Indiana.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Coming up on NEWSNIGHT: Patrick Dennehy's murder and the questions being raised now about the basketball program at Baylor University.
A short break first. This is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: A few stories from around the country now, starting with politics in California and the recall that might also become a rematch. Republican Bill Simon dropped something bigger than a hint he's getting into the race to replace Governor Gray Davis. "When I'm governor," he said, "we won't have the type of sham budget they're talking about now." He was referring to the agreement reached today to close California's $38 billion budget deficit.
Firefighters in Montana are battling unpredictable weather, along with the flames. They spent the day setting up backfires before the winds kick up tomorrow. If all goes well, they'll have enough of a firebreak set up to keep a number of residential areas safe from flames, which have already charred about 12,000 acres so far.
And in Brooklyn today, mourners crowded outside the church where funeral services were held for New York City Councilman James Davis. Councilman Davis, you will recall, was shot to death last week at City Hall. His assassin was killed moments later by a New York City police officer. New York's Mayor Bloomberg spoke at services, calling Councilman Davis a man who tried to make New York a better place.
The death of Baylor University basketball player Patrick Dennehy is a tragedy, pure and simple, but it has also spawned to controversy. Has Baylor skirted the rules? Have players been slipped cash? Is there a drug players, other questions? In some respects, the usual stuff, except Baylor is not supposed to be the usual university. It's a Baptist university.
Writing in today's "New York Times," columnist Selena Roberts wondered if the university was essentially leading a double life, advertising itself as special because it's a religious school, while falling prey to the same temptations that come with winning at all costs.
Ms. Roberts joins us tonight from Las Vegas.
Nice to see you. Thanks for being with us.
How much evidence, actual evidence, is there of players being slipped money or drug usage among the basketball players and the like?
SELENA ROBERTS, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": Well, it's kind of a delicate situation, Aaron, because you have the death of Patrick Dennehy. And he really is the ultimate witness to a lot of this. And you don't have that witness now. And so you have to rely a lot on hearsay, what Patrick may have said to his father, what he may have said to his girlfriend, what he may have said to his family members, and the same for Carlton Dotson, the man who is accused of killing Patrick.
And so you have a situation where there is a lot of hearsay and a lot of stories being told. And that's what's going to have to bear out in its investigation. And Baylor is investigating himself right now with this three-member panel. So we will see how easy it is for them to get to the truth when there is so much out there that is unknown because of Patrick's death.
BROWN: A couple more questions on the facts. Then I want to get to the article you wrote -- or the column you wrote today.
Do the alleged improprieties extend beyond the two young men who have become the center of the story, Dennehy, who was murdered, and Dotson, who's accused?
ROBERTS: Well, right now, it's just focused on those two.
The issue of player cash could be team-wide. Who knows. But that has been alleged, as far as what Patrick received. And there are people who will say that Patrick received money to help him buy an SUV. And there are other people who say there is a team drug wide -- a team drug problem that goes beyond Patrick and Carlton, that maybe there was a bigger issue there than any of the officials have led on or have disclosed to this point.
BROWN: Now, let's get to the column this morning, because it was very tough. I mean, basically, you are making the argument that Baylor ought to be, and in fact says it is, held to a higher standard because it's a religious university.
ROBERTS: Yes.
I think that what I'm saying is that, when you recruit a player, when a coach like Dave Bliss goes into a household, he's going into a household not just as any university. He's going into a household and he is basically touting the Christian heritage of Baylor University. So he is sort of putting himself above maybe the other universities, in that: This is a place of family values. This is a place where we are going to take care of your son. This is a place where we are going to say that, if you have a problem, you come to us and things will be taken care of. We're not going to let your son fall through the cracks.
And now, when you see what has happening in the aftermath of Patrick's death, you see that maybe some things did fall through the cracks. And so where are the values now? And that are -- the questions that are being raised. It doesn't mean that they are guilty of any of these things, of the allegations yet, because the investigation hasn't happened. But you do have questions concerning whether or not Baylor, who was trying to right itself after past probation for the NCAA, is now putting itself in a position of trying, we are above it, but maybe we're not.
The questions are saying right now, we're not above it.
BROWN: When you wrote the column, when you were finished writing it, did you look at it and say, this is really tough; this is harsh?
ROBERTS: Yes, I do think you have to worry. When you write something, you say to yourself, it's a religious issue, too. That's very delicate. And I do think that you do think and say to yourself, is this the right thing at this time?
But I think that I took my cue a little bit from the press conference that Dave Bliss gave. And in the press conference, he does say that he's a Christian man, that this is an upstanding university that stands for values. And so he's putting that out there again. And, like I say, it's a different kind of recruiting tool. And that makes it very delicate. And it makes it very tough. And I did receive several angry e-mails today from people who are wondering, why would you take on religion in a sport's column? But I do think, in this situation, it's appropriate.
BROWN: They were saying, look -- were they saying: Mr. Bliss has to coach -- Bliss has to win, too. He has -- to keep his job, he has to play by the same rules as everyone else. It's not really fair to hold him on to a different standard? Was that was the argument?
ROBERTS: Well, I think he holds himself to a different standard.
I think he does go into these homes and he does tout Baylor University for being a Baptist school, for being a school that does have values. And I do think that, now, when you look at some of the accusations, was there trouble in Carlton Dotson's life that he was aware or his staff was aware of that they basically ignored? Were there problems with Patrick Dennehy that they ignored?
Those are issues where, if you are tight-knit, close and you're living by the law of Baylor University and you're trying to right yourself, you should know your players. You should know what your players are involved in. And those are the accusations that are flying right now.
BROWN: Would any of this have come out had it not been for the tragedy of Dennehy's death?
ROBERTS: Absolutely not.
I think that that's an issue -- if you are talking about what goes on at every university, I think that a lot of universities would have difficulties if a player on a team dies and there is an emotionally charged issue, where people are wondering, what happened, who didn't see the warning signs, who did not look at the red flags. You are going to have family members who are angry, who may say things, like: The coaches should have known. They should have known what was going on.
And then you may have people make claims that have been made in this case.
BROWN: It's good to see you. Nice to have you on the program. It was a very provocative article, as many of your columns are, a terrific writer. And we're glad to have you. Thank you very much.
ROBERTS: Thank you, Aaron. Appreciate it.
BROWN: Thank you, Selena Roberts of "The New York Times."
Still ahead on NEWSNIGHT: morning papers, which, oddly enough, includes "The New York Times."
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Okeydokey, time to take a look at morning papers from around the country and around the world, tomorrow morning's papers, except for the first one, which, in this case, is today's "New York Times," which we didn't have last night. But had we, honestly, we would have caught this. OK, this is great.
This is not a big deal, but it's what people have been talking about in the journalism business today. Front page of "The Times." "Bob Hope, Master of One-Liners and Friend to G.I.s Dies at 100." And then I don't know if you can see this, but there is a very straightforward lead, basically that he died of pneumonia. And then the obituary, "Road to Ubiquity," by Vincent Canby. OK, what is interesting about this? Mr. Canby died in the year 2000. It might have been 2001.
But he covered the arts for "The Times," forever, it seemed like. And he wrote a great obituary. And they ran it. Some people thought that was wrong, but I am not one of them.
One other thing from "The Times," by the way, while I think about it. See this story: "Gay-Themed TV Gains a Wider Audience." That's in today's "New York Times," a look at all the gay-themed programs that are TV on broadcast and cable. Same story, but very different kind of edge to it in "The Washington Times" down at the bottom here. "Homosexuality Seen as Accepted by Media."
For one thing, "The Washington Times" -- I believe this is still true -- if it's not, I apologize -- never uses the word gay or rarely uses the word gay. They always say homosexuality. And "The Times" clearly does not. And, anyway, a couple of things there.
OK, that killed a minute. How does that happen? I ran out of time so quickly.
"Chicago Sun-Times." Yippie, the weather tomorrow. "Bush Won't Budge on a Secret September 11 Report." We told you about this earlier. This picture, this is a former security chief in Tikrit. And after an extensive search, they found him at his home. OK?
No great powerful national story. "The San Francisco Chronicle" leads local. "Assembly Passes Budget" way up there. And "Actor's Decision May Come Today," the Schwarzenegger decision. All week, people have been saying he's not going to run. And I'll bet you he doesn't.
"The Miami Herald," a lot of the expected stories. Down here, a political story: "Lieberman Rips Bush in Attempt to Woo Cubans." Big story down there, the Cuban vote and whether you can get it.
And quickly, "Gotcha" is "The Times Record." Sunday? How did the Sunday paper get in there?
We'll see you tomorrow. That's NEWSNIGHT. Good night for all of us.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Beating Case in Inglewood; Texas Democrats Flee State>
