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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown

Alabama Chief Justice Suspended; ATF Investigates West Virginia Shootings; Schwarzenegger Picks up Some Republican Support

Aired August 22, 2003 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: And good evening, I'm Daryn Kagan. I'm in for Aaron Brown tonight.
We begin in Alabama where the Chief Justice Roy Moore has made it very clear that he is willing to suffer the consequences whatever they might be to keep his Ten Commandments monument right where it is in the State Judicial Building. Today, though, consequences meant his suspension and that story is where we begin the whip.

David Mattingly is following the Ten Commandments fight from Montgomery, Alabama and he has our first headline -- David.

DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Daryn, Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore who was fighting to keep his monument to the Ten Commandments on public display is now also fighting for his job -- Daryn.

KAGAN: We'll be with you in a moment.

Now, the latest on that string of deadly shootings in West Virginia. Maria Hinojosa is in Charleston with the latest, Maria a headline from you please.

MARIA HINOJOSA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Daryn, one week and a day after the last fatal shooting here in Charleston the ATF goes back to the scene of the crime to recreate it, trying to search for clues and they're turning to the public for any information about a man whose composite sketch was released and they want more information on him -- Daryn.

KAGAN: We will also be live in California where Arnold Schwarzenegger picked up some more Republican support today. Kelly Wallace is on that tonight and Kelly has the headline from southern California.

KELLY WALLACE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Daryn, the power of celebrity, hundreds turn out to see Arnold Schwarzenegger on the stump, this as some Republicans are signaling some concern and are urging Schwarzenegger's Republican opponent to get out of the race -- Daryn.

KAGAN: We will be hearing from Kelly in Huntington Beach.

Also, going live to Gaza and the funeral for a Hamas figure killed in an Israeli attack yesterday. Michael Holmes is using the videophone tonight and Michael has a headline -- Michael. MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The funeral of Ismail Abu Shanab served as a rallying point for Hamas and other militant groups, a gathering of the faithful and the angry. Hamas says it was the burial of the road map, others still hoping to pull the fragments together -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Clearly we will be trying to dial in a slightly better signal so we can see Michael even better from Gaza. Thank you. We'll be back with all of you in just a moment.

Also coming up tonight on NEWSNIGHT the latest on the investigation into this week's bombing of the U.N. Headquarters in Baghdad. The question now did the terrorists have help from Iraqis who were actually working there?

A decision in the battle that hit FOX News against comedian Al Franken, did Franken do wrong when he put that phrase "fair and balanced" in the title of his book? We'll tell you what a judge had to say about that.

And, a great way to end the week, it is a story of a victim of terror. That part isn't great but she was not a victim in the end. A woman believed to be killed in Iraq will soon be coming home to her family and, you know what, her family can't wait for that. That is all just ahead.

First, we begin in Alabama the judge and the Ten Commandments. The stone tablet, by the way, remains right where it has been during this entire legal dust up. It is in the courthouse rotunda.

Moving it is turning into a logistical nightmare. Hard to imagine but actually Judge Roy Moore is proving to be somewhat easier. Earlier tonight an ethics panel said judge not, at least not for now.

So, we begin tonight with the judge's suspension and CNN's David Mattingly in Birmingham.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY (voice-over): A tumultuous week at the Alabama Supreme Court ends with a bang.

TOM PARKER, SPOKESMAN FOR CHIEF JUSTICE ROY MOORE: The staff of the Judicial Inquiry Commission delivered a complaint that they had issued against Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore.

MATTINGLY: State Supreme Court Chief Justice Roy Moore suspended from duty as an Alabama judicial court decides if his unabashed defiance of a federal court order violated judicial ethics. Moore refused to remove the monument to the Ten Commandments he placed on public display two years ago and is now petitioning the Supreme Court to hear his arguments.

CHIEF JUSTICE ROY MOORE, ALABAMA SUPREME COURT: Our oath of office says that we're to uphold the constitution of Alabama and the Constitution of the United States. That's the law not what a judge says.

If the rule of law was what a judge says we'd still have slavery. Indeed, the Declaration of Independence would be a meaningless document. We have got to realize that what judges say when they violate the law is not law. It's lawless and in this case the law is clear.

MATTINGLY: The high court two days ago refused to delay the federal court order and it is not known if the Supreme Court will be interested in taking his case but in his home state the case against Moore is substantial. He is cited on six counts of ethics violations, potentially damaging to his office and his career.

RICHARD COHEN, EXECUTIVE COUNCIL, SOUTHERN POVERTY LAW CENTER: Justice Moore gave them no choice. The canons of ethics say you have to respect and comply with the law. Justice Moore said that he was going to defy it. He forced their hand. Now, I hope, he's removed from office.

MATTINGLY: Shaken by the news, Moore supporters remain on the steps of the Judicial Building considering it a victory that now two days have passed since the federal deadline and the monument has not moved. That is something parties in this case expect will change in the coming days.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY: And there is a great deal of incentive for state officials to move that monument. If it's still there a week from now, plaintiffs in the case say that they will pursue contempt charges and bring on those dreaded $5,000 a day fines -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Meanwhile, what effect does the suspension have on the business of the Alabama Supreme Court?

MATTINGLY: At this point it is not known what effect that's going to have on day-to-day business here. Only the chief justice is suspended from his duties. All of the other eight justices can still come to work just as they're expected to do. At this point, though, we will find out on Monday morning from his attorneys exactly what his response to this is and how he plans to proceed from here.

KAGAN: David Mattingly in Montgomery, Alabama, not Birmingham as we said earlier. David, thank you for that.

There, of course, is no shortage of opinion or passion on the subject. We will be delving into the story again a little bit later in the program. We'll have a chance to speak with Morris Dees of the Southern Poverty Law Center and the Reverend Patrick Mahoney.

We move on though for now next to the state of West Virginia, a break in the search for a sniper. Today brought news that all three victims were killed with the same .22 caliber weapon. It's not exactly comforting news but it is a badly needed development for investigators just the same.

Here again is CNN's Maria Hinojosa.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HINOJOSA (voice-over): One week and a day since the last deadly shooting in West Virginia and the ATF tries to recreate a sniper attack using laser beams to measure a shot's distance and positioning themselves inside a truck similar to one spotted here the night of the shooting. Crime solvers attempt to think and act like a criminal.

There has been slow progress. This composite sketch was featured prominently on the front page of the local papers Friday morning and Friday afternoon authorities emphasized the importance of speaking with this man.

KENNETH MCCABE, FBI SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE: The sketch of that individual is of the individual that was inside that dark colored or maroon truck that was spotted at the Go Mart on Route 60. We have witnesses that saw him in that truck.

HINOJOSA: At Southern Kitchen in Charleston, a 56-year-old local diner, uneasiness now about gun violence in a city where only ten people were murdered in all of last year.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Scary, when I go to stop at a street light I'm sort of really scared about it. If a truck or something pulls up in front of me or beside it's sort of scary I think.

HINOJOSA: But not everyone has given in to the fear.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't think he should scare us enough to just stay locked in because wherever he's going to be he's going to be I guess but I think he'll mess up and they'll catch him.

HINOJOSA: At Peggy's Dairy Treat, Kelly Schoolcraft (ph) says she feels safer with a much more visible police presence.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You see a lot of deputies go up and down the road and they come in the restaurant and, you know, at night we're pretty busy.

HINOJOSA: But in a state where carrying a concealed and loaded weapon is legal, a message from one West Virginia to the sniper.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somebody might get him without -- before he gets someone else, you know. He has to kind of start watching his back too I think.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HINOJOSA: Now, federal authorities have told CNN that they will go back and recreate another scene of one of the crimes here in search for more clues. They continue to get many calls on this composite sketch but up until now no solid leads while the city of Charleston is hoping that this sniper has hit for the last time -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Maria, early on the sheriff investigating this case came out and talked about a possible drug connection. The mayor of Charleston was none too happy about that revelation. What's the latest on that lead?

HINOJOSA: Daryn, there has been some division here between those parties here trying to decide whether or not drugs is part of this investigation but one thing, Daryn, when you get to Charleston people will tell you that this city does have a drug problem. Crack and methamphetamine is found in certain areas of the city and there are high crime areas.

But, today, when I spoke to one of the federal authorities he said that they are not ruling out drugs as a possible reason for one of these shootings here. They said that they are casting a very wide net and he told me: "We want to make this investigation as widespread and as thorough as possible," so they're not discarding anything -- Daryn.

KAGAN: A lot more work to be done in Charleston, West Virginia. Maria thank you for that.

Ahead on the program we're going to have a chance to talk to a profiler and get her take on who might be doing this.

Now, though, we go onto the California recall, a pair of developments there today including an "L.A. Times" poll that was released today. It shows likely voters are split 50 to 45 in favor of recalling Governor Gray Davis with just four percent now undecided and as voter opinion solidifies so apparently does Republican support for Arnold Schwarzenegger.

That story from CNN's Kelly Wallace.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WALLACE (voice-over): Arnold Schwarzenegger on the stump with hundreds of autograph seekers and television crews from around the world crowding the streets to catch his every move.

CROWD: Arnold, Arnold, Arnold, Arnold, Arnold.

WALLACE: The actor turned candidate in friendly territory, Huntington Beach, where about 60 percent of registered voters are Republican. He first huddled with small business leaders about the state's ailing economy and then used the bullhorn to say he would be good for business in California.

ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER (R), CA GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: Wait for October 7, and we're going to turn around this mess that has been created in the last five years.

WALLACE: This visit coming as some state Republicans are urging the other GOP candidates to get out of the race and support Schwarzenegger to avoid splitting the Republican vote that message from a wealthy conservative group, The Orange County Lincoln Club.

In a statement the group said of the other Republican candidates: "In our view, they cannot win. They can only spoil our chances of electing a Republican governor."

Schwarzenegger for his part said he is not encouraging anybody to step aside but made his hopes very clear.

SCHWARZENEGGER: At one point or the other they have to make the decision. I cannot make it for them. Obviously, mathematically speaking it's wiser to only have one candidate.

WALLACE: But the other Republicans are staying put at least for now. The concern of some Republicans comes as more and more state Democrats are hedging their bets urging Californians to vote no to recall Governor Gray Davis and then to vote for Democratic Lieutenant Governor Cruz Bustamante in case Davis is ousted.

Even Davis himself, who has long argued that having other Democrats on the ballot would legitimize the recall, has shifted. He now says that Bustamante could bring more voters, especially Hispanics, to the polls and keep him in office.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WALLACE: And some Democratic strategists believe Davis and Bustamante should start coordinating their appearances on this campaign whereas as for the Republican side, Daryn, it remains to be seen if any of these other Republican candidates will step aside and rally behind Arnold Schwarzenegger -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Well, Kelly, we have the opportunity to ask one of them right now. Thank you for your report.

We're joined now by a Republican challenger who believes he has something to say and something to offer Californians even if it isn't that same star power and a panel of high-powered advisers. We're talking about state Senator Tom McClintock. He joins us tonight from Sacramento. Mr. McClintock, good to have you with us tonight.

STATE SEN. TOM MCCLINTOCK (R), GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: Thanks for having me, Daryn.

KAGAN: Let's get right to the question. You heard the Lincoln Club. They're saying all of the Republicans should step aside and support one candidate, their candidate, Arnold Schwarzenegger. Are you willing to make that move?

MCCLINTOCK: Well, I think just for fun maybe we ought to have a campaign first and then decide who wins.

KAGAN: I guess that means no. You're not at this point willing to do that.

MCCLINTOCK: No, I'm in this race for the long haul. This race is about the future direction of California. I know there's a tendency to concentrate on all the glamour and glitz but beneath the surface is a very, very serious discussion among Californians over the future of our state. KAGAN: Well, I just have to think this must be such a frustrating situation for you. You're a lifetime politician. Fiscal issues in California are your passion. You're one of the experts on this issue and in sweeps this big mega movie star and steals the spotlight.

Doesn't it make it frustrating if nothing else that it's taking away from the discussion of issues of how California is going to get out of the fiscal mess that it's in?

MCCLINTOCK: Oh, in a sense it is. I heard all the time well, of course, you're the most qualified candidate but you don't have the celebrity or the money to compete in a race like this. My response is if the most qualified candidate must defer every time a celebrity or a millionaire casts a longing eye on public office well then we've lost something very important in our democracy. It is called merit.

KAGAN: Well, and you are the guy that loves to crunch numbers and knows the ins and outs of the books of California. Very briefly, of course, what's it going to take for California to fix itself and it is going to be painful no doubt so where is that pain going to come?

MCCLINTOCK: Well, you have to reorganize the way the state is delivering services. We're at a point in our history where we're spending a larger portion of people's earnings than at any time before and delivering less. I've said from the moment I take the oath of office, the very first thing I'll do is sign the executive order to rescind the governor's tripling of our car tax.

I'll then act to void the $42 billion of outrageously overpriced electricity contracts that this governor locked us into and then I'll call a special session of the legislature to replace our worker's compensation law with Arizona's and bring our worker's comp costs down by two-thirds. All of that can be done the morning of the first day of the new administration before lunch.

KAGAN: Let's talk a little bit about money in terms of raising it. You need to do it in order to win this office, to win this race. People like Arnold Schwarzenegger just write their own personal check. Mr. Simon has his own money.

You, I understand, are going to the Internet. It's working for Howard Dean who's running for the Democratic presidential nomination. How's that working for you?

MCCLINTOCK: We're actually now raising more money in small contributions over the Internet than Howard Dean's campaign is for the White House. The response from the rank and file voters has been absolutely off the scales and I'm very grateful for that.

KAGAN: Have you been shocked by that?

MCCLINTOCK: Yes in a sense I have been. Again, we've been offering a very, very specific plan to change the direction of California and the folks that are listening to that are responding at helptom.com. We've set up a virtual headquarters where people can download campaign material, make contributions, order bumper stickers and banners and literally become a campaign committee of one.

KAGAN: You know California politics inside and out. I saw at one place today it was suggested the outcome ultimately of this campaign will be who is more energized, will it be Republicans or Democrats? Who in California do you think is more energized to come out and vote on October 7th?

MCCLINTOCK: Well, this is no longer a Republican or Democratic issue. This is an issue over the future direction of California and 35 percent of the signers of the recall petitions were registered Democrats. So, what you're seeing is people setting aside their normal domestic cares and pleasures and riveting on California's public policy like never before with good reason because their futures depend on it.

KAGAN: And just finally in terms of setting aside personal ambition that's what the chairman of your state Party, the state Republican Party said you might have to do, and this is bringing it back to where we started this discussion.

Darrell Issa did it. He's the man who set the ball rolling in this whole recall situation. He stepped aside. Do you think there will ever be a point that you will step aside between now and the end?

MCCLINTOCK: No. I owe it to my supporters. I owe it to the people of California to continue this discussion over what specifically needs to be done to turn this state around. I grant you there's a lot that Arnold Schwarzenegger could teach me about making movies.

There's a great deal I could teach him about the fiscal reforms necessary to set this state's finances in order. The problem is there's no training period. The new governor will take office the moment the last ballot is counted.

KAGAN: It's going to be an interesting time. It is already. State Senator Tom McClintock thank you for your time from Sacramento, appreciate it.

MCCLINTOCK: Thank you.

KAGAN: Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, thousands crowd the streets of Gaza City. They are there both to mourn a leader and they are vowing revenge. A live report from thee is coming up next.

And three Cubans indicted by the U.S., a futile attempt at justice or just biased politics?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: We move on to the Middle East now and there is no sign of end to the violence there tonight. Israeli soldiers today killed a member of the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade and they wounded two others in a shootout at a hospital on the West Bank this as members of Hamas buried one of their leaders.

Here now, CNN's Michael Holmes.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES (voice-over): The hot narrow streets of Gaza City packed with Palestinians of all factions and many thousands of ordinary civilians, the air ringing with the promise of vengeance.

The killing of Ismail Abu Shanab has angered an entire population. It was a four hour procession from the morgue where Abu Shanab's charred body had been kept overnight to his home, his body draped in a Hamas flag, and then on to a central mosque in Gaza City there the crowd so large the faithful had to pray in the street.

Many chose to parade their militancy instead. These Hamas members' robes signal they are ready to give their lives for their cause. These members of the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade masked and armed, Hamas militants marching with the SAM rockets.

Abu Shanab died Thursday when his car was hit by several Israeli missiles fired from Apache helicopters. He and his two bodyguards burned and disfigured, 12 bystanders wounded. Palestinians say Abu Shanab was a moderate voice in the Hamas organization, a surprising target to them.

Israel says he was no politician, instead involved in organizing terror attacks like the bus bombing in West Jerusalem that killed 20 Israelis and ultimately led to his own death, Hamas officials venting at Israel and the Palestinian Authority.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are calling the Palestinian Authority to stop any negotiation and anything with the enemy of our people.

HOLMES: The slogans as expected, "The road map is finished. Only martyrdom operations remain," blared the loud speakers. "Revenge, revenge" they say later.

(on camera): This is in many ways more than just a funeral, these people more than mourners. This is also very much a show of support for Hamas, a big one, and a show of strength, defiance even, by Hamas.

(voice-over): The cease-fire over the entire region awaits the next step with trepidation. Few expect it to be a step along the road map, the mood in Gaza this day not one for compromise. With the body of Abu Shanab, say Hamas leaders, peace hopes too have been buried.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: (Unintelligible) now, Daryn, very worried indeed. Israelis worried that Hamas will exact its revenge in the form of some sort of attack, a suicide bombing perhaps. (AUDIO GAP).

KAGAN: Well, and clearly we're having trouble with our videophone tonight with Michael Holmes from Gaza but at least we got most of his report in. Let's move on now to Baghdad and intriguing new questions about the bombing of U.N. Headquarters. That story tonight from CNN's Ben Wedeman.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Japanese diplomats come to place flowers at the bombed out headquarters of the United Nations in Baghdad.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want to leave these flowers (unintelligible) the people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I could bring it over there for you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, OK, yes.

WEDEMAN: With questions arising as to whether the bombers were somehow provided with critical intelligence by Iraqi staff linked to Saddam Hussein's intelligence services.

Under the old regime Iraqis, working with foreign groups or organizations, were compelled to report to Iraqi intelligence. According to Bernard Kerik, senior American adviser to the Iraqi interior ministry, the focus now is on the Iraqi security guards who worked at the U.N. Headquarters. Several of them are now being questioned.

At Friday prayers, Shiite clerics, many critical of the U.S. presence in Iraq condemned the attack. In the Baghdad suburb of Sadr City, Imam Abdel Hadid de-Raji (ph) accused what he called outside hands of involvement in the bombing.

At a solemn ceremony at Baghdad Airport, a final farewell to Sergio de Mello, the senior U.N. official killed in Tuesday's bombing. His coffin was flown out onboard an Air Force jet dispatched to Baghdad from his native Brazil. Following the bombing, other international and non-governmental organizations are reviewing their presence here.

JOHN KILKENNY, CONCERN: We tend to try and keep a focus on our work. We don't take what we see as unnecessary risks. When we travel outside of Baghdad we do so in convoy and, to be perfectly honest, we face very, very little hostility in any of our dealings with the Iraqi people.

WEDEMAN: Security across the city is tighter but, for now, most organizations are staying put.

(on camera): The U.N. has scaled down its staff here but it too is staying put. U.N. officials say work will resume at a temporary headquarters as early as Saturday.

Ben Wedeman, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE) KAGAN: Coming up on NEWSNIGHT, we have one more twist in the strange case of a judge and the Ten Commandments. Coming up next, both sides step forward.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: In terms of a fight, you couldn't get more of a heavyweight one than this, 5,300 pounds. That, in fact, is how much those Ten Commandments, the monument, weighs, the one that is at the center of the fight in Alabama this week.

We want to talk more about Justice Moore's battle to keep the monument, his suspension, which took place today, and we're doing that with people on opposing sides.

Morris Dees is a founder of the Southern Poverty Law Center, one of the civil liberties groups that is trying to get the monument removed and the Reverend Patrick Mahoney is a Christian activist who supports Justice Moore. They are both with us from Montgomery tonight. Gentlemen, good evening, a pleasure to have you on with us.

MORRIS DEES, FOUNDER, SOUTHERN POVERTY LAW CENTER: Glad to be here.

REV. PATRICK MAHONEY, DIRECTOR, CHRISTIAN DEFENSE COALITION: Thank you.

KAGAN: Mr. Dees, I'd like to start with you, when this lawsuit was filed and as it worked its way through the courts did you ever think it would come to this, both the suspension of the chief justice of Alabama and the spectacle taking place at the courthouse tonight?

DEES: No, I really didn't think it would come to this. I thought that Judge Moore, being a respected jurist in our state, would follow the law but when he decided that he would disobey an order of the court affirmed by the U.S. Supreme Court then it became a tragedy.

And I have to say that our state averted that tragedy by having our brave attorney general and eight judges of his court move him aside and make way to have this monument removed and also him removed from office.

KAGAN: Reverend Mahoney, let's bring you in here. It is one thing to stand for beliefs, what about when it comes to the chief justice of Alabama defying a federal court order do you still stand by Justice Moore?

MAHONEY: Of course I do, in fact many of our great heroes throughout history have withstood tyranny and oppression, in fact, Morris Dees here in Montgomery, Alabama. We see Dr. Martin Luther King who resisted the horror of segregation. Throughout history laws, federal laws, I mean let's be honest here, federal laws supported slavery. Federal laws supported segregation and people withstood it. * who resisted the horror of segregation. Throughout history, laws, federal laws -- I mean, let's be honest here. Federal laws supported slavery. Federal laws supported segregation. And people withstood it.

And I would take issue. This is not a spectacle here. This is the celebration of the First Amendment and free speech. It's not a circus going on here. It is people of deep, passionate beliefs and convictions fighting for what they believe in peacefully. And I would encourage everyone who cherishes freedom and the First Amendment and religious liberty to come to Montgomery, Alabama, and to resist judicial tyranny and stand for justice and freedom.

KAGAN: Mr. Dees, what about the citing of Martin Luther King? We heard it from Justice Moore himself, saying that he defied court orders and he stood up to federal law in honor and in the word and the effort to fight for civil rights. If it's right for Martin Luther King, why is it not right for Justice Moore?

DEES: Well, first of all, Dr. Martin Luther King did not go to jail for defying federal orders. They appealed their orders through the appellate process to the U.S. Supreme Court. That's where we got Brown V. Board. That's where we got the right to ride the bus in Montgomery.

To compare Justice Moore to Martin Luther King is ridiculous. Moore -- the better, fitting comparison would be to George Wallace, who was a racial demagogue and who defied the federal court, but, fortunately, he backed down at the last minute. Judge Moore uses religion -- and I respect Reverend Mahoney -- he's a fine person. And I am sure he has the conviction of his beliefs.

But the First Amendment of the Constitution was established because people left England to get away from the Church of England, that told them what to do, and come to this country. And they set up the First Amendment, which established a wall between church and state, a separation of church and state. And, look, I'm a Southern Baptist. I grew up as a Southern Baptist.

And we, as Southern Baptists, we don't believe this. And Judge Moore does not represent us and represent our state.

(CROSSTALK)

KAGAN: And, Reverend Mahoney, I just want to ask you, what do you make of the eight justices of the Alabama Supreme Court calling on Roy Moore to follow the federal order? They themselves are saying, all right enough already. Let's get that monument out. Put it in somewhere else, put it your office, but not in the rotunda of the state judicial building.

MAHONEY: Well, for Morris to compare chief Justice Roy Moore to Governor Wallace standing at the University of Alabama, I would compare Associate Justice Houston to Bull Connor resisting and speaking out. That's the equal comparison there.

Here's what I would say. The foundation of American jurisprudence is on the Ten Commandments, is on the Judeo-Christian value. And we have come here to stand peacefully and prayerfully. And there are hundreds. And I want to say this. On Monday, we are going to peacefully kneel in front of the Alabama state Supreme Court courthouse. And if they have to take us to jail for standing for our convictions, for standing what is right and just, then I would call upon the governor of this state and the attorney general, Mr. Pryor, to stand up for what is right.

And I would say to Morris, Morris, if there was a federal law that told you, you had to respect segregation and slavery, would you obey that law?

DEES: Well this isn't a debate between you and I at this point. I think this is more of a national issue for our state.

MAHONEY: Well, is that a yes or a no?

DEES: And that's not the issue here.

MAHONEY: What is the issue?

DEES: The issue here is whether or not we're going to have a rule of law or we're going to have a judge who, after some 13 federal judges, including the Supreme Court, eight judges of the Alabama Supreme Court, tell him to do something. And he decides: Well, look, I'm the ultimate authority because God anointed me.

That's not the way we run our country. That's not the way we have laws in America. And that's not the way we're going to do it in the future. Thank goodness for Attorney General Pryor and the other eight judges and the nine people on the judicial ethics committee, that said, this is a nation of laws. And if Judge Moore wants to appeal his case, he can appeal it to the U.S. Supreme Court.

This is a crisis of his own making. All he had to do was move the monument into a back room, honor the court's order. And if he can win this case before the Supreme Court -- and he knows he can't -- they're not even going to take it. It would be over with.

(CROSSTALK)

KAGAN: Reverend, hold on. I want to just ask this question.

MAHONEY: Yes.

KAGAN: I am sure many people who support your beliefs think that it would be admirable that you would be willing to get arrested for this cause. But, really, looking down the line, as a reverend, what is a more practical solution of how this whole solution can be resolved?

MAHONEY: Well, a practical solution is to honor Christ, to lay down our lives, and to peacefully honor the principles of this country and the word of God.

So, as a minister, I want to say this. It is an honor if I get arrested in the town of Montgomery, Alabama, with a long line of people who have resisted tyranny and oppression. I applaud Chief Justice Roy Moore. He is an American hero. And we are standing for principles of expressing God in the public square. And, again, to every Christian who is watching this program, every person who cherishes free speech and religious freedom, come to Montgomery, Alabama, and stand for justice. Now is the time.

(CROSSTALK)

KAGAN: I am going to have to let that invitation be the final word.

Gentlemen, it was a very civilized discussion. I appreciate the input from both sides of the disagreement. Thank you so much to Morris Dees and the reverend Patrick Mahoney from Montgomery, Alabama.

We still have more to cover tonight on NEWSNIGHT: the case of who is really fair and balanced, as one comedy writer takes on a national cable network.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: So there's a judge here in New York. He said today: "There are hard cases and there are easy cases. This one before me is an easy case." He was talking about the matchup between Fox News and liberal satirist Al Franken. Franken had the winning argument hands down, according to this judge. And that means that Al Franken, in his new book, is free to make fun of "fair and balanced." He can do it all he wants.

The story now from CNN's Jason Carroll.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The book has been selling in stores for just a few days. And thanks to a U.S. district judge, its shelf life could be much longer, its title, "Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them: A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right," its author, Al Franken, a self-described left-leaning political satirist.

AL FRANKEN, AUTHOR/COMEDIAN: We do have a country that has a rule of law. And the body of law says that I can do this. And they know that.

CARROLL: They, meaning the Fox News Channel, which sued Franken for using a slogan that Fox trademarked, the words "fair and balanced," in his book title. The cover features Fox anchor Bill O'Reilly, who crossed paths with Franken during a book tour.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL O'REILLY, FOX NEWS: Shut up. You had your 35 minutes. Shut up!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARROLL: On Friday, a court denied Fox's motion to stop sales of the book with its title, saying that title is protected under the First Amendment. FRANKEN: In the same way that Microsoft can trademark Windows for its software, they can't stop me from saying, look at that window.

CARROLL: Fox released a statement saying, "We respect the court's decision and are evaluating our options." Franken says he's glad a judge reaffirmed, the First Amendment covers humor.

FRANKEN: Satire is covered even if you don't think it's funny. OK?

CARROLL (on camera): Publicity over Fox's suit may be part of the reason why Franken's book is selling so well. His publisher has already had to reorder 90,000 additional copies just to keep up with demand.

Jason Carroll, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: And coming out of that, we have a few stories for you from around the country tonight, beginning with pardons for dozens caught up in the ongoing legal mess in Tulia, Texas. Governor Rick Perry pardoned 35 people arrested and convicted in 1999. They were arrested in drug busts that were based on the testimony of a lone undercover agent who was later charged with perjury.

A car dealership fire near Los Angeles today may be the work of radical environmentalists. The Earth Liberation Front issued an unsigned e-mail calling the crime an ELF action. The FBI is investigating. Vehicles there and at three other dealerships were spray-painted with slogans like "Fat, lazy Americans."

And Baylor University has hired a new coach for its men's basketball team. They did it today. He is Scott Drew, formerly the head coach of Valparaiso. He'll try to get the team past the scandal that emerged after the murder of team member Patrick Dennehy. Drew replace the Dave Bliss, who was accused of urging players to tell investigators falsely that Dennehy dealt drugs to pay his tuition.

Much more ahead on NEWSNIGHT: the search for a sniper and how the police plan to get inside the killer's mind.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: We have more now on the string of shootings in the Charleston areas of West Virginia. One of the FBI agents investigating asked for the public's help today after a composite sketch was released.

We thought that we would bring in some expert as well. We have criminal profiler Pat Brown with us this evening. She's the author of "Killing For Sport: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers."

Pat Brown joining us now from Minneapolis this evening.

Pat, good to have you with us. PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Good evening, Daryn.

KAGAN: First of all, help us sort through these composites and these two men that police are looking for and law enforcement officials. One is a heavyset, goateed man. And the other is a tall and thin and -- kind of a strange description -- saying he had white hairy legs.

BROWN: Hairy legs. That's kind of unusual.

KAGAN: Yes.

(LAUGHTER)

KAGAN: Do you make anything out of those descriptions?

BROWN: Well, it's good that they have them, because, if you don't have descriptions, you have not got a lot to go on.

So one of problems that police have is, if you remember back to the snipers of D.C., is, you put out a composite of a person or a vehicle, and everybody says, that's it, that's the only one. And you get lots of information on that. And then nobody calls in tips on any other possibilities.

So you have to be very careful to say, look, we have these two descriptions. We have this vehicle description. Please give us any information on these. But, at the same time, these are witness descriptions and we're not too sure they are accurate. So if you have any other information about any other person or vehicle, call those in also. You want every piece of information you can possibly get.

KAGAN: And what about the idea that a lot of people didn't consider during the D.C. sniper situation? And that is that it could be more than one person doing the shooting.

BROWN: That is a possibility.

But the problem is, unless you see that, you really don't know. You have to really have evidence. The D.C. shootings, really, most them were done at such a distance that it could have been one person. The only one in D.C. that was absolutely sure it was a two-person shooting was the one -- if you remember -- right across the D.C. line, where they saw the vehicle speeding away. And that was the vehicle that wasn't the white van. It was an actual car.

But that one was not reported to the public, oddly enough. That was the most important one and it wasn't reported to the public or to the other police, actually. That one would have indicated you had to have two people, because you couldn't have done it with one person.

KAGAN: Probably the most controversial aspect of this investigation so far was the sheriff coming out and talking about the possibility of a drug connection, the mayor of Charleston none too happy about that. Of course, he doesn't want the suggestion that he's the mayor of a town with a big drug problem. BROWN: A big meth problem, right.

KAGAN: Yes, right. But in terms of the investigation, what do you make of a drug connection?

BROWN: Well, that one scared me, too.

I am with the mayor and McCabe, FBI Agent McCabe, on that one, because if you know it is drug connected, that is one thing. But if you're guessing it is drug connected, you are really causing a problem, because if you say that, you are telling the people, if you are not involved in drugs, you are safe. Go ahead. Go to the convenience store and get shot, you know? That's a little dangerous thing to say.

And the other problem is, it doesn't make any sense. The sheriff said, one of reasons we know it is drug related is because someone was shot at this convenience store. Then the shooter skipped a convenience store and shot at another one 10 minutes away, so this must be targeted people.

And I am thinking, what, you have got all your drug problem that you don't like for some reason showing up at convenience stores? It doesn't make any sense.

KAGAN: But, Pat, what about this idea? Are you saying that officials shouldn't come out and shouldn't reassure the public that they are safe, that that's a bad idea?

BROWN: That's a horrible idea, because, if you don't know that, you are putting people at risk. It is very difficult to stop people from going to convenience stores anyway.

KAGAN: Or to the gas station. You don't want anybody to be locked up in their homes. That's not practical either.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Exactly. True. You can't actually protect people, but you can tell people to keep watching and keep being very observant.

You don't want to tell people, though, if you are not involved in drugs, don't worry about it, you are not going to be a target. So you just go happily filling up your gas up and going to the convenience store and paying no mind until you get shot in the head. That's just a wrong thing to say. It makes no sense. You have three connected homicides, all at public locations.

Drug dealers do not go around shooting people who rip them off at convenience stores. And if you do that, you have no future customers, you know? And if somebody's honing -- getting in on your territory, are you honestly telling me that three different people from this area are all getting in on your territory? It just doesn't make any sense.

(CROSSTALK)

KAGAN: It sounds like you are trying to tell investigators not to put the public on the wrong path.

BROWN: Exactly.

KAGAN: You want them to keep their eyes and ears open and turn in any clues they might possibly have.

BROWN: Right. If that's your theory, keep it to yourself until you find out more.

KAGAN: All right, Pat, thank you so much. Pat Brown, joining us from Minneapolis, appreciate your insight once again.

BROWN: My pleasure, Daryn.

KAGAN: Ahead on NEWSNIGHT: three Cubans indicted by the U.S. It's a case the government knows it cannot win. So why are they wasting the time and the money? We will look at that just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: We have more now in the federal indictments announced yesterday against three Cubans accused of shooting down two civilian planes in the Florida Straits back in 1996.

There is an obvious question. Why now, seven years after the crime, when there's little chance of actually being able to try the accused?

Susan Candiotti takes a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A recording of Cuban pilots excited after shooting down two small unarmed planes over international airspace. It was 1996.

MARCO JIMENEZ, U.S. ATTORNEY: This was an act of premeditated murder.

CANDIOTTI: Now, seven years later, as charges were announced, families of Anti-Castro U.S. National Victims held pictures of their relatives. But, reporters asked, why did it take so long? And did political pressure lead to Thursday's indictments?

JIMENEZ: It is not based on political considerations. That's not what we do. It's based solely on justice.

CANDIOTTI: Yet, high-ranking Cuban-American activists tell CNN that, in fact, threats to withhold support from President Bush in 2004 played a critical role.

In recent weeks, exiles, largely huge Bush backers, have been publicly taking on the administration. That's when migrants like these, accused of hijacking a boat, were sent back to Cuba after the U.S. negotiating a deal limiting any punishment to 10 years. They have also demanded more government funding for anti-Castro broadcasts into Cuba and changes in immigration policy.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Cuba must be free.

CANDIOTTI: Exiles say they need more than promises from the White House.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They cannot take our vote for granted.

CANDIOTTI: Jose Pasulto (ph) is a survivor of the shootdown.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I could say that the mood in this community demanded some sort of political action in behalf of the Cuban people.

CANDIOTTI: Did they get it? The same day as the indictments, some improvements announced for Radio and TV Marti.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think this community expressed its concern. I think it's important that our concerns be heard. They have been in Washington. And I think this is a step to address those concerns.

CANDIOTTI (on camera): The Justice Department says its investigation of the shootdown is not over. And the White House is not yet responding to questions from CNN about pressure from Cuban exiles, whose support it does not want to lose, especially in Florida.

Susan Candiotti, CNN, Miami.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: Still ahead on NEWSNIGHT: alive and well in Baghdad? How one woman survived the U.N. bomb, surprising her family, who was already planning her funeral.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: The family of Marilyn Manuel has been spending the last few days planning her funeral. Now, because of one late-night phone call from Iraq, they are planning something else. They are planning her homecoming. It's a remarkable story a massive mixup and a tragedy that wasn't. Perhaps that is the only good story to come out of the bombing in Baghdad this week.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN (voice-over): It was the news Benjamin Manuel was praying he wouldn't hear. On Tuesday afternoon, representatives from the U.N. told him that his wife, Marilyn, a top aid to Sergio Vieira de Mello, had been killed in the Baghdad bombing. His son Erik was with him.

BENJAMIN MANUEL, WIFE SURVIVED IRAQ BOMBING: I showed them inside of the house. Eric told me that they are from the U.N. They would like to talk to you. It's really bad news. But I told them, I don't believe this. I want to see her. I don't believe you.

KAGAN: On Wednesday, at their home in Queens, the family prayed while they began making funeral arrangements. But then, at 3:00 a.m. on Thursday, the Manuels' prayers were answered. The nightmare was over.

ERIK MANUEL, MOTHER SURVIVED IRAQ BOMBING: It was amazing. My sister and I had answered the phone. The signal was weak. And we couldn't hear her. We said, "Hello, hello?" Basically, she said, "Rick, it's mom." And I'm like: "Who? Mom?" And once I said that, they say everyone came running out.

KAGAN: Marilyn Manuel was calling from an Army field hospital outside of Baghdad. She wanted to know if everyone was OK.

VANESSA MANUEL, SURVIVED IRAQ BOMBING: It was like a chance to say what you want to say, even though we say it to each other all the time, but now with more fervor and more meaning. And we just said: We love you very much. We love you. Just get home.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: Well, the family said today that they haven't how this mixup happened in the first place. They U.N. has offered no official comment yet. But U.N. sources tell CNN they suspect that the U.N. worker was confused with a Spanish naval captain with the same last name who did die in the bombing.

That is going to do it for us. I'm Daryn Kagan. Aaron Brown will be back in this seat on Monday.

You have a great weekend.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





Virginia Shootings; Schwarzenegger Picks up Some Republican Support>


Aired August 22, 2003 - 22:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: And good evening, I'm Daryn Kagan. I'm in for Aaron Brown tonight.
We begin in Alabama where the Chief Justice Roy Moore has made it very clear that he is willing to suffer the consequences whatever they might be to keep his Ten Commandments monument right where it is in the State Judicial Building. Today, though, consequences meant his suspension and that story is where we begin the whip.

David Mattingly is following the Ten Commandments fight from Montgomery, Alabama and he has our first headline -- David.

DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Daryn, Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore who was fighting to keep his monument to the Ten Commandments on public display is now also fighting for his job -- Daryn.

KAGAN: We'll be with you in a moment.

Now, the latest on that string of deadly shootings in West Virginia. Maria Hinojosa is in Charleston with the latest, Maria a headline from you please.

MARIA HINOJOSA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Daryn, one week and a day after the last fatal shooting here in Charleston the ATF goes back to the scene of the crime to recreate it, trying to search for clues and they're turning to the public for any information about a man whose composite sketch was released and they want more information on him -- Daryn.

KAGAN: We will also be live in California where Arnold Schwarzenegger picked up some more Republican support today. Kelly Wallace is on that tonight and Kelly has the headline from southern California.

KELLY WALLACE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Daryn, the power of celebrity, hundreds turn out to see Arnold Schwarzenegger on the stump, this as some Republicans are signaling some concern and are urging Schwarzenegger's Republican opponent to get out of the race -- Daryn.

KAGAN: We will be hearing from Kelly in Huntington Beach.

Also, going live to Gaza and the funeral for a Hamas figure killed in an Israeli attack yesterday. Michael Holmes is using the videophone tonight and Michael has a headline -- Michael. MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The funeral of Ismail Abu Shanab served as a rallying point for Hamas and other militant groups, a gathering of the faithful and the angry. Hamas says it was the burial of the road map, others still hoping to pull the fragments together -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Clearly we will be trying to dial in a slightly better signal so we can see Michael even better from Gaza. Thank you. We'll be back with all of you in just a moment.

Also coming up tonight on NEWSNIGHT the latest on the investigation into this week's bombing of the U.N. Headquarters in Baghdad. The question now did the terrorists have help from Iraqis who were actually working there?

A decision in the battle that hit FOX News against comedian Al Franken, did Franken do wrong when he put that phrase "fair and balanced" in the title of his book? We'll tell you what a judge had to say about that.

And, a great way to end the week, it is a story of a victim of terror. That part isn't great but she was not a victim in the end. A woman believed to be killed in Iraq will soon be coming home to her family and, you know what, her family can't wait for that. That is all just ahead.

First, we begin in Alabama the judge and the Ten Commandments. The stone tablet, by the way, remains right where it has been during this entire legal dust up. It is in the courthouse rotunda.

Moving it is turning into a logistical nightmare. Hard to imagine but actually Judge Roy Moore is proving to be somewhat easier. Earlier tonight an ethics panel said judge not, at least not for now.

So, we begin tonight with the judge's suspension and CNN's David Mattingly in Birmingham.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY (voice-over): A tumultuous week at the Alabama Supreme Court ends with a bang.

TOM PARKER, SPOKESMAN FOR CHIEF JUSTICE ROY MOORE: The staff of the Judicial Inquiry Commission delivered a complaint that they had issued against Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore.

MATTINGLY: State Supreme Court Chief Justice Roy Moore suspended from duty as an Alabama judicial court decides if his unabashed defiance of a federal court order violated judicial ethics. Moore refused to remove the monument to the Ten Commandments he placed on public display two years ago and is now petitioning the Supreme Court to hear his arguments.

CHIEF JUSTICE ROY MOORE, ALABAMA SUPREME COURT: Our oath of office says that we're to uphold the constitution of Alabama and the Constitution of the United States. That's the law not what a judge says.

If the rule of law was what a judge says we'd still have slavery. Indeed, the Declaration of Independence would be a meaningless document. We have got to realize that what judges say when they violate the law is not law. It's lawless and in this case the law is clear.

MATTINGLY: The high court two days ago refused to delay the federal court order and it is not known if the Supreme Court will be interested in taking his case but in his home state the case against Moore is substantial. He is cited on six counts of ethics violations, potentially damaging to his office and his career.

RICHARD COHEN, EXECUTIVE COUNCIL, SOUTHERN POVERTY LAW CENTER: Justice Moore gave them no choice. The canons of ethics say you have to respect and comply with the law. Justice Moore said that he was going to defy it. He forced their hand. Now, I hope, he's removed from office.

MATTINGLY: Shaken by the news, Moore supporters remain on the steps of the Judicial Building considering it a victory that now two days have passed since the federal deadline and the monument has not moved. That is something parties in this case expect will change in the coming days.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY: And there is a great deal of incentive for state officials to move that monument. If it's still there a week from now, plaintiffs in the case say that they will pursue contempt charges and bring on those dreaded $5,000 a day fines -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Meanwhile, what effect does the suspension have on the business of the Alabama Supreme Court?

MATTINGLY: At this point it is not known what effect that's going to have on day-to-day business here. Only the chief justice is suspended from his duties. All of the other eight justices can still come to work just as they're expected to do. At this point, though, we will find out on Monday morning from his attorneys exactly what his response to this is and how he plans to proceed from here.

KAGAN: David Mattingly in Montgomery, Alabama, not Birmingham as we said earlier. David, thank you for that.

There, of course, is no shortage of opinion or passion on the subject. We will be delving into the story again a little bit later in the program. We'll have a chance to speak with Morris Dees of the Southern Poverty Law Center and the Reverend Patrick Mahoney.

We move on though for now next to the state of West Virginia, a break in the search for a sniper. Today brought news that all three victims were killed with the same .22 caliber weapon. It's not exactly comforting news but it is a badly needed development for investigators just the same.

Here again is CNN's Maria Hinojosa.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HINOJOSA (voice-over): One week and a day since the last deadly shooting in West Virginia and the ATF tries to recreate a sniper attack using laser beams to measure a shot's distance and positioning themselves inside a truck similar to one spotted here the night of the shooting. Crime solvers attempt to think and act like a criminal.

There has been slow progress. This composite sketch was featured prominently on the front page of the local papers Friday morning and Friday afternoon authorities emphasized the importance of speaking with this man.

KENNETH MCCABE, FBI SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE: The sketch of that individual is of the individual that was inside that dark colored or maroon truck that was spotted at the Go Mart on Route 60. We have witnesses that saw him in that truck.

HINOJOSA: At Southern Kitchen in Charleston, a 56-year-old local diner, uneasiness now about gun violence in a city where only ten people were murdered in all of last year.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Scary, when I go to stop at a street light I'm sort of really scared about it. If a truck or something pulls up in front of me or beside it's sort of scary I think.

HINOJOSA: But not everyone has given in to the fear.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't think he should scare us enough to just stay locked in because wherever he's going to be he's going to be I guess but I think he'll mess up and they'll catch him.

HINOJOSA: At Peggy's Dairy Treat, Kelly Schoolcraft (ph) says she feels safer with a much more visible police presence.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You see a lot of deputies go up and down the road and they come in the restaurant and, you know, at night we're pretty busy.

HINOJOSA: But in a state where carrying a concealed and loaded weapon is legal, a message from one West Virginia to the sniper.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somebody might get him without -- before he gets someone else, you know. He has to kind of start watching his back too I think.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HINOJOSA: Now, federal authorities have told CNN that they will go back and recreate another scene of one of the crimes here in search for more clues. They continue to get many calls on this composite sketch but up until now no solid leads while the city of Charleston is hoping that this sniper has hit for the last time -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Maria, early on the sheriff investigating this case came out and talked about a possible drug connection. The mayor of Charleston was none too happy about that revelation. What's the latest on that lead?

HINOJOSA: Daryn, there has been some division here between those parties here trying to decide whether or not drugs is part of this investigation but one thing, Daryn, when you get to Charleston people will tell you that this city does have a drug problem. Crack and methamphetamine is found in certain areas of the city and there are high crime areas.

But, today, when I spoke to one of the federal authorities he said that they are not ruling out drugs as a possible reason for one of these shootings here. They said that they are casting a very wide net and he told me: "We want to make this investigation as widespread and as thorough as possible," so they're not discarding anything -- Daryn.

KAGAN: A lot more work to be done in Charleston, West Virginia. Maria thank you for that.

Ahead on the program we're going to have a chance to talk to a profiler and get her take on who might be doing this.

Now, though, we go onto the California recall, a pair of developments there today including an "L.A. Times" poll that was released today. It shows likely voters are split 50 to 45 in favor of recalling Governor Gray Davis with just four percent now undecided and as voter opinion solidifies so apparently does Republican support for Arnold Schwarzenegger.

That story from CNN's Kelly Wallace.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WALLACE (voice-over): Arnold Schwarzenegger on the stump with hundreds of autograph seekers and television crews from around the world crowding the streets to catch his every move.

CROWD: Arnold, Arnold, Arnold, Arnold, Arnold.

WALLACE: The actor turned candidate in friendly territory, Huntington Beach, where about 60 percent of registered voters are Republican. He first huddled with small business leaders about the state's ailing economy and then used the bullhorn to say he would be good for business in California.

ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER (R), CA GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: Wait for October 7, and we're going to turn around this mess that has been created in the last five years.

WALLACE: This visit coming as some state Republicans are urging the other GOP candidates to get out of the race and support Schwarzenegger to avoid splitting the Republican vote that message from a wealthy conservative group, The Orange County Lincoln Club.

In a statement the group said of the other Republican candidates: "In our view, they cannot win. They can only spoil our chances of electing a Republican governor."

Schwarzenegger for his part said he is not encouraging anybody to step aside but made his hopes very clear.

SCHWARZENEGGER: At one point or the other they have to make the decision. I cannot make it for them. Obviously, mathematically speaking it's wiser to only have one candidate.

WALLACE: But the other Republicans are staying put at least for now. The concern of some Republicans comes as more and more state Democrats are hedging their bets urging Californians to vote no to recall Governor Gray Davis and then to vote for Democratic Lieutenant Governor Cruz Bustamante in case Davis is ousted.

Even Davis himself, who has long argued that having other Democrats on the ballot would legitimize the recall, has shifted. He now says that Bustamante could bring more voters, especially Hispanics, to the polls and keep him in office.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WALLACE: And some Democratic strategists believe Davis and Bustamante should start coordinating their appearances on this campaign whereas as for the Republican side, Daryn, it remains to be seen if any of these other Republican candidates will step aside and rally behind Arnold Schwarzenegger -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Well, Kelly, we have the opportunity to ask one of them right now. Thank you for your report.

We're joined now by a Republican challenger who believes he has something to say and something to offer Californians even if it isn't that same star power and a panel of high-powered advisers. We're talking about state Senator Tom McClintock. He joins us tonight from Sacramento. Mr. McClintock, good to have you with us tonight.

STATE SEN. TOM MCCLINTOCK (R), GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: Thanks for having me, Daryn.

KAGAN: Let's get right to the question. You heard the Lincoln Club. They're saying all of the Republicans should step aside and support one candidate, their candidate, Arnold Schwarzenegger. Are you willing to make that move?

MCCLINTOCK: Well, I think just for fun maybe we ought to have a campaign first and then decide who wins.

KAGAN: I guess that means no. You're not at this point willing to do that.

MCCLINTOCK: No, I'm in this race for the long haul. This race is about the future direction of California. I know there's a tendency to concentrate on all the glamour and glitz but beneath the surface is a very, very serious discussion among Californians over the future of our state. KAGAN: Well, I just have to think this must be such a frustrating situation for you. You're a lifetime politician. Fiscal issues in California are your passion. You're one of the experts on this issue and in sweeps this big mega movie star and steals the spotlight.

Doesn't it make it frustrating if nothing else that it's taking away from the discussion of issues of how California is going to get out of the fiscal mess that it's in?

MCCLINTOCK: Oh, in a sense it is. I heard all the time well, of course, you're the most qualified candidate but you don't have the celebrity or the money to compete in a race like this. My response is if the most qualified candidate must defer every time a celebrity or a millionaire casts a longing eye on public office well then we've lost something very important in our democracy. It is called merit.

KAGAN: Well, and you are the guy that loves to crunch numbers and knows the ins and outs of the books of California. Very briefly, of course, what's it going to take for California to fix itself and it is going to be painful no doubt so where is that pain going to come?

MCCLINTOCK: Well, you have to reorganize the way the state is delivering services. We're at a point in our history where we're spending a larger portion of people's earnings than at any time before and delivering less. I've said from the moment I take the oath of office, the very first thing I'll do is sign the executive order to rescind the governor's tripling of our car tax.

I'll then act to void the $42 billion of outrageously overpriced electricity contracts that this governor locked us into and then I'll call a special session of the legislature to replace our worker's compensation law with Arizona's and bring our worker's comp costs down by two-thirds. All of that can be done the morning of the first day of the new administration before lunch.

KAGAN: Let's talk a little bit about money in terms of raising it. You need to do it in order to win this office, to win this race. People like Arnold Schwarzenegger just write their own personal check. Mr. Simon has his own money.

You, I understand, are going to the Internet. It's working for Howard Dean who's running for the Democratic presidential nomination. How's that working for you?

MCCLINTOCK: We're actually now raising more money in small contributions over the Internet than Howard Dean's campaign is for the White House. The response from the rank and file voters has been absolutely off the scales and I'm very grateful for that.

KAGAN: Have you been shocked by that?

MCCLINTOCK: Yes in a sense I have been. Again, we've been offering a very, very specific plan to change the direction of California and the folks that are listening to that are responding at helptom.com. We've set up a virtual headquarters where people can download campaign material, make contributions, order bumper stickers and banners and literally become a campaign committee of one.

KAGAN: You know California politics inside and out. I saw at one place today it was suggested the outcome ultimately of this campaign will be who is more energized, will it be Republicans or Democrats? Who in California do you think is more energized to come out and vote on October 7th?

MCCLINTOCK: Well, this is no longer a Republican or Democratic issue. This is an issue over the future direction of California and 35 percent of the signers of the recall petitions were registered Democrats. So, what you're seeing is people setting aside their normal domestic cares and pleasures and riveting on California's public policy like never before with good reason because their futures depend on it.

KAGAN: And just finally in terms of setting aside personal ambition that's what the chairman of your state Party, the state Republican Party said you might have to do, and this is bringing it back to where we started this discussion.

Darrell Issa did it. He's the man who set the ball rolling in this whole recall situation. He stepped aside. Do you think there will ever be a point that you will step aside between now and the end?

MCCLINTOCK: No. I owe it to my supporters. I owe it to the people of California to continue this discussion over what specifically needs to be done to turn this state around. I grant you there's a lot that Arnold Schwarzenegger could teach me about making movies.

There's a great deal I could teach him about the fiscal reforms necessary to set this state's finances in order. The problem is there's no training period. The new governor will take office the moment the last ballot is counted.

KAGAN: It's going to be an interesting time. It is already. State Senator Tom McClintock thank you for your time from Sacramento, appreciate it.

MCCLINTOCK: Thank you.

KAGAN: Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, thousands crowd the streets of Gaza City. They are there both to mourn a leader and they are vowing revenge. A live report from thee is coming up next.

And three Cubans indicted by the U.S., a futile attempt at justice or just biased politics?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: We move on to the Middle East now and there is no sign of end to the violence there tonight. Israeli soldiers today killed a member of the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade and they wounded two others in a shootout at a hospital on the West Bank this as members of Hamas buried one of their leaders.

Here now, CNN's Michael Holmes.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES (voice-over): The hot narrow streets of Gaza City packed with Palestinians of all factions and many thousands of ordinary civilians, the air ringing with the promise of vengeance.

The killing of Ismail Abu Shanab has angered an entire population. It was a four hour procession from the morgue where Abu Shanab's charred body had been kept overnight to his home, his body draped in a Hamas flag, and then on to a central mosque in Gaza City there the crowd so large the faithful had to pray in the street.

Many chose to parade their militancy instead. These Hamas members' robes signal they are ready to give their lives for their cause. These members of the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade masked and armed, Hamas militants marching with the SAM rockets.

Abu Shanab died Thursday when his car was hit by several Israeli missiles fired from Apache helicopters. He and his two bodyguards burned and disfigured, 12 bystanders wounded. Palestinians say Abu Shanab was a moderate voice in the Hamas organization, a surprising target to them.

Israel says he was no politician, instead involved in organizing terror attacks like the bus bombing in West Jerusalem that killed 20 Israelis and ultimately led to his own death, Hamas officials venting at Israel and the Palestinian Authority.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are calling the Palestinian Authority to stop any negotiation and anything with the enemy of our people.

HOLMES: The slogans as expected, "The road map is finished. Only martyrdom operations remain," blared the loud speakers. "Revenge, revenge" they say later.

(on camera): This is in many ways more than just a funeral, these people more than mourners. This is also very much a show of support for Hamas, a big one, and a show of strength, defiance even, by Hamas.

(voice-over): The cease-fire over the entire region awaits the next step with trepidation. Few expect it to be a step along the road map, the mood in Gaza this day not one for compromise. With the body of Abu Shanab, say Hamas leaders, peace hopes too have been buried.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: (Unintelligible) now, Daryn, very worried indeed. Israelis worried that Hamas will exact its revenge in the form of some sort of attack, a suicide bombing perhaps. (AUDIO GAP).

KAGAN: Well, and clearly we're having trouble with our videophone tonight with Michael Holmes from Gaza but at least we got most of his report in. Let's move on now to Baghdad and intriguing new questions about the bombing of U.N. Headquarters. That story tonight from CNN's Ben Wedeman.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Japanese diplomats come to place flowers at the bombed out headquarters of the United Nations in Baghdad.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want to leave these flowers (unintelligible) the people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I could bring it over there for you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, OK, yes.

WEDEMAN: With questions arising as to whether the bombers were somehow provided with critical intelligence by Iraqi staff linked to Saddam Hussein's intelligence services.

Under the old regime Iraqis, working with foreign groups or organizations, were compelled to report to Iraqi intelligence. According to Bernard Kerik, senior American adviser to the Iraqi interior ministry, the focus now is on the Iraqi security guards who worked at the U.N. Headquarters. Several of them are now being questioned.

At Friday prayers, Shiite clerics, many critical of the U.S. presence in Iraq condemned the attack. In the Baghdad suburb of Sadr City, Imam Abdel Hadid de-Raji (ph) accused what he called outside hands of involvement in the bombing.

At a solemn ceremony at Baghdad Airport, a final farewell to Sergio de Mello, the senior U.N. official killed in Tuesday's bombing. His coffin was flown out onboard an Air Force jet dispatched to Baghdad from his native Brazil. Following the bombing, other international and non-governmental organizations are reviewing their presence here.

JOHN KILKENNY, CONCERN: We tend to try and keep a focus on our work. We don't take what we see as unnecessary risks. When we travel outside of Baghdad we do so in convoy and, to be perfectly honest, we face very, very little hostility in any of our dealings with the Iraqi people.

WEDEMAN: Security across the city is tighter but, for now, most organizations are staying put.

(on camera): The U.N. has scaled down its staff here but it too is staying put. U.N. officials say work will resume at a temporary headquarters as early as Saturday.

Ben Wedeman, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE) KAGAN: Coming up on NEWSNIGHT, we have one more twist in the strange case of a judge and the Ten Commandments. Coming up next, both sides step forward.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: In terms of a fight, you couldn't get more of a heavyweight one than this, 5,300 pounds. That, in fact, is how much those Ten Commandments, the monument, weighs, the one that is at the center of the fight in Alabama this week.

We want to talk more about Justice Moore's battle to keep the monument, his suspension, which took place today, and we're doing that with people on opposing sides.

Morris Dees is a founder of the Southern Poverty Law Center, one of the civil liberties groups that is trying to get the monument removed and the Reverend Patrick Mahoney is a Christian activist who supports Justice Moore. They are both with us from Montgomery tonight. Gentlemen, good evening, a pleasure to have you on with us.

MORRIS DEES, FOUNDER, SOUTHERN POVERTY LAW CENTER: Glad to be here.

REV. PATRICK MAHONEY, DIRECTOR, CHRISTIAN DEFENSE COALITION: Thank you.

KAGAN: Mr. Dees, I'd like to start with you, when this lawsuit was filed and as it worked its way through the courts did you ever think it would come to this, both the suspension of the chief justice of Alabama and the spectacle taking place at the courthouse tonight?

DEES: No, I really didn't think it would come to this. I thought that Judge Moore, being a respected jurist in our state, would follow the law but when he decided that he would disobey an order of the court affirmed by the U.S. Supreme Court then it became a tragedy.

And I have to say that our state averted that tragedy by having our brave attorney general and eight judges of his court move him aside and make way to have this monument removed and also him removed from office.

KAGAN: Reverend Mahoney, let's bring you in here. It is one thing to stand for beliefs, what about when it comes to the chief justice of Alabama defying a federal court order do you still stand by Justice Moore?

MAHONEY: Of course I do, in fact many of our great heroes throughout history have withstood tyranny and oppression, in fact, Morris Dees here in Montgomery, Alabama. We see Dr. Martin Luther King who resisted the horror of segregation. Throughout history laws, federal laws, I mean let's be honest here, federal laws supported slavery. Federal laws supported segregation and people withstood it. * who resisted the horror of segregation. Throughout history, laws, federal laws -- I mean, let's be honest here. Federal laws supported slavery. Federal laws supported segregation. And people withstood it.

And I would take issue. This is not a spectacle here. This is the celebration of the First Amendment and free speech. It's not a circus going on here. It is people of deep, passionate beliefs and convictions fighting for what they believe in peacefully. And I would encourage everyone who cherishes freedom and the First Amendment and religious liberty to come to Montgomery, Alabama, and to resist judicial tyranny and stand for justice and freedom.

KAGAN: Mr. Dees, what about the citing of Martin Luther King? We heard it from Justice Moore himself, saying that he defied court orders and he stood up to federal law in honor and in the word and the effort to fight for civil rights. If it's right for Martin Luther King, why is it not right for Justice Moore?

DEES: Well, first of all, Dr. Martin Luther King did not go to jail for defying federal orders. They appealed their orders through the appellate process to the U.S. Supreme Court. That's where we got Brown V. Board. That's where we got the right to ride the bus in Montgomery.

To compare Justice Moore to Martin Luther King is ridiculous. Moore -- the better, fitting comparison would be to George Wallace, who was a racial demagogue and who defied the federal court, but, fortunately, he backed down at the last minute. Judge Moore uses religion -- and I respect Reverend Mahoney -- he's a fine person. And I am sure he has the conviction of his beliefs.

But the First Amendment of the Constitution was established because people left England to get away from the Church of England, that told them what to do, and come to this country. And they set up the First Amendment, which established a wall between church and state, a separation of church and state. And, look, I'm a Southern Baptist. I grew up as a Southern Baptist.

And we, as Southern Baptists, we don't believe this. And Judge Moore does not represent us and represent our state.

(CROSSTALK)

KAGAN: And, Reverend Mahoney, I just want to ask you, what do you make of the eight justices of the Alabama Supreme Court calling on Roy Moore to follow the federal order? They themselves are saying, all right enough already. Let's get that monument out. Put it in somewhere else, put it your office, but not in the rotunda of the state judicial building.

MAHONEY: Well, for Morris to compare chief Justice Roy Moore to Governor Wallace standing at the University of Alabama, I would compare Associate Justice Houston to Bull Connor resisting and speaking out. That's the equal comparison there.

Here's what I would say. The foundation of American jurisprudence is on the Ten Commandments, is on the Judeo-Christian value. And we have come here to stand peacefully and prayerfully. And there are hundreds. And I want to say this. On Monday, we are going to peacefully kneel in front of the Alabama state Supreme Court courthouse. And if they have to take us to jail for standing for our convictions, for standing what is right and just, then I would call upon the governor of this state and the attorney general, Mr. Pryor, to stand up for what is right.

And I would say to Morris, Morris, if there was a federal law that told you, you had to respect segregation and slavery, would you obey that law?

DEES: Well this isn't a debate between you and I at this point. I think this is more of a national issue for our state.

MAHONEY: Well, is that a yes or a no?

DEES: And that's not the issue here.

MAHONEY: What is the issue?

DEES: The issue here is whether or not we're going to have a rule of law or we're going to have a judge who, after some 13 federal judges, including the Supreme Court, eight judges of the Alabama Supreme Court, tell him to do something. And he decides: Well, look, I'm the ultimate authority because God anointed me.

That's not the way we run our country. That's not the way we have laws in America. And that's not the way we're going to do it in the future. Thank goodness for Attorney General Pryor and the other eight judges and the nine people on the judicial ethics committee, that said, this is a nation of laws. And if Judge Moore wants to appeal his case, he can appeal it to the U.S. Supreme Court.

This is a crisis of his own making. All he had to do was move the monument into a back room, honor the court's order. And if he can win this case before the Supreme Court -- and he knows he can't -- they're not even going to take it. It would be over with.

(CROSSTALK)

KAGAN: Reverend, hold on. I want to just ask this question.

MAHONEY: Yes.

KAGAN: I am sure many people who support your beliefs think that it would be admirable that you would be willing to get arrested for this cause. But, really, looking down the line, as a reverend, what is a more practical solution of how this whole solution can be resolved?

MAHONEY: Well, a practical solution is to honor Christ, to lay down our lives, and to peacefully honor the principles of this country and the word of God.

So, as a minister, I want to say this. It is an honor if I get arrested in the town of Montgomery, Alabama, with a long line of people who have resisted tyranny and oppression. I applaud Chief Justice Roy Moore. He is an American hero. And we are standing for principles of expressing God in the public square. And, again, to every Christian who is watching this program, every person who cherishes free speech and religious freedom, come to Montgomery, Alabama, and stand for justice. Now is the time.

(CROSSTALK)

KAGAN: I am going to have to let that invitation be the final word.

Gentlemen, it was a very civilized discussion. I appreciate the input from both sides of the disagreement. Thank you so much to Morris Dees and the reverend Patrick Mahoney from Montgomery, Alabama.

We still have more to cover tonight on NEWSNIGHT: the case of who is really fair and balanced, as one comedy writer takes on a national cable network.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: So there's a judge here in New York. He said today: "There are hard cases and there are easy cases. This one before me is an easy case." He was talking about the matchup between Fox News and liberal satirist Al Franken. Franken had the winning argument hands down, according to this judge. And that means that Al Franken, in his new book, is free to make fun of "fair and balanced." He can do it all he wants.

The story now from CNN's Jason Carroll.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The book has been selling in stores for just a few days. And thanks to a U.S. district judge, its shelf life could be much longer, its title, "Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them: A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right," its author, Al Franken, a self-described left-leaning political satirist.

AL FRANKEN, AUTHOR/COMEDIAN: We do have a country that has a rule of law. And the body of law says that I can do this. And they know that.

CARROLL: They, meaning the Fox News Channel, which sued Franken for using a slogan that Fox trademarked, the words "fair and balanced," in his book title. The cover features Fox anchor Bill O'Reilly, who crossed paths with Franken during a book tour.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL O'REILLY, FOX NEWS: Shut up. You had your 35 minutes. Shut up!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARROLL: On Friday, a court denied Fox's motion to stop sales of the book with its title, saying that title is protected under the First Amendment. FRANKEN: In the same way that Microsoft can trademark Windows for its software, they can't stop me from saying, look at that window.

CARROLL: Fox released a statement saying, "We respect the court's decision and are evaluating our options." Franken says he's glad a judge reaffirmed, the First Amendment covers humor.

FRANKEN: Satire is covered even if you don't think it's funny. OK?

CARROLL (on camera): Publicity over Fox's suit may be part of the reason why Franken's book is selling so well. His publisher has already had to reorder 90,000 additional copies just to keep up with demand.

Jason Carroll, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: And coming out of that, we have a few stories for you from around the country tonight, beginning with pardons for dozens caught up in the ongoing legal mess in Tulia, Texas. Governor Rick Perry pardoned 35 people arrested and convicted in 1999. They were arrested in drug busts that were based on the testimony of a lone undercover agent who was later charged with perjury.

A car dealership fire near Los Angeles today may be the work of radical environmentalists. The Earth Liberation Front issued an unsigned e-mail calling the crime an ELF action. The FBI is investigating. Vehicles there and at three other dealerships were spray-painted with slogans like "Fat, lazy Americans."

And Baylor University has hired a new coach for its men's basketball team. They did it today. He is Scott Drew, formerly the head coach of Valparaiso. He'll try to get the team past the scandal that emerged after the murder of team member Patrick Dennehy. Drew replace the Dave Bliss, who was accused of urging players to tell investigators falsely that Dennehy dealt drugs to pay his tuition.

Much more ahead on NEWSNIGHT: the search for a sniper and how the police plan to get inside the killer's mind.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: We have more now on the string of shootings in the Charleston areas of West Virginia. One of the FBI agents investigating asked for the public's help today after a composite sketch was released.

We thought that we would bring in some expert as well. We have criminal profiler Pat Brown with us this evening. She's the author of "Killing For Sport: Inside the Minds of Serial Killers."

Pat Brown joining us now from Minneapolis this evening.

Pat, good to have you with us. PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Good evening, Daryn.

KAGAN: First of all, help us sort through these composites and these two men that police are looking for and law enforcement officials. One is a heavyset, goateed man. And the other is a tall and thin and -- kind of a strange description -- saying he had white hairy legs.

BROWN: Hairy legs. That's kind of unusual.

KAGAN: Yes.

(LAUGHTER)

KAGAN: Do you make anything out of those descriptions?

BROWN: Well, it's good that they have them, because, if you don't have descriptions, you have not got a lot to go on.

So one of problems that police have is, if you remember back to the snipers of D.C., is, you put out a composite of a person or a vehicle, and everybody says, that's it, that's the only one. And you get lots of information on that. And then nobody calls in tips on any other possibilities.

So you have to be very careful to say, look, we have these two descriptions. We have this vehicle description. Please give us any information on these. But, at the same time, these are witness descriptions and we're not too sure they are accurate. So if you have any other information about any other person or vehicle, call those in also. You want every piece of information you can possibly get.

KAGAN: And what about the idea that a lot of people didn't consider during the D.C. sniper situation? And that is that it could be more than one person doing the shooting.

BROWN: That is a possibility.

But the problem is, unless you see that, you really don't know. You have to really have evidence. The D.C. shootings, really, most them were done at such a distance that it could have been one person. The only one in D.C. that was absolutely sure it was a two-person shooting was the one -- if you remember -- right across the D.C. line, where they saw the vehicle speeding away. And that was the vehicle that wasn't the white van. It was an actual car.

But that one was not reported to the public, oddly enough. That was the most important one and it wasn't reported to the public or to the other police, actually. That one would have indicated you had to have two people, because you couldn't have done it with one person.

KAGAN: Probably the most controversial aspect of this investigation so far was the sheriff coming out and talking about the possibility of a drug connection, the mayor of Charleston none too happy about that. Of course, he doesn't want the suggestion that he's the mayor of a town with a big drug problem. BROWN: A big meth problem, right.

KAGAN: Yes, right. But in terms of the investigation, what do you make of a drug connection?

BROWN: Well, that one scared me, too.

I am with the mayor and McCabe, FBI Agent McCabe, on that one, because if you know it is drug connected, that is one thing. But if you're guessing it is drug connected, you are really causing a problem, because if you say that, you are telling the people, if you are not involved in drugs, you are safe. Go ahead. Go to the convenience store and get shot, you know? That's a little dangerous thing to say.

And the other problem is, it doesn't make any sense. The sheriff said, one of reasons we know it is drug related is because someone was shot at this convenience store. Then the shooter skipped a convenience store and shot at another one 10 minutes away, so this must be targeted people.

And I am thinking, what, you have got all your drug problem that you don't like for some reason showing up at convenience stores? It doesn't make any sense.

KAGAN: But, Pat, what about this idea? Are you saying that officials shouldn't come out and shouldn't reassure the public that they are safe, that that's a bad idea?

BROWN: That's a horrible idea, because, if you don't know that, you are putting people at risk. It is very difficult to stop people from going to convenience stores anyway.

KAGAN: Or to the gas station. You don't want anybody to be locked up in their homes. That's not practical either.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Exactly. True. You can't actually protect people, but you can tell people to keep watching and keep being very observant.

You don't want to tell people, though, if you are not involved in drugs, don't worry about it, you are not going to be a target. So you just go happily filling up your gas up and going to the convenience store and paying no mind until you get shot in the head. That's just a wrong thing to say. It makes no sense. You have three connected homicides, all at public locations.

Drug dealers do not go around shooting people who rip them off at convenience stores. And if you do that, you have no future customers, you know? And if somebody's honing -- getting in on your territory, are you honestly telling me that three different people from this area are all getting in on your territory? It just doesn't make any sense.

(CROSSTALK)

KAGAN: It sounds like you are trying to tell investigators not to put the public on the wrong path.

BROWN: Exactly.

KAGAN: You want them to keep their eyes and ears open and turn in any clues they might possibly have.

BROWN: Right. If that's your theory, keep it to yourself until you find out more.

KAGAN: All right, Pat, thank you so much. Pat Brown, joining us from Minneapolis, appreciate your insight once again.

BROWN: My pleasure, Daryn.

KAGAN: Ahead on NEWSNIGHT: three Cubans indicted by the U.S. It's a case the government knows it cannot win. So why are they wasting the time and the money? We will look at that just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: We have more now in the federal indictments announced yesterday against three Cubans accused of shooting down two civilian planes in the Florida Straits back in 1996.

There is an obvious question. Why now, seven years after the crime, when there's little chance of actually being able to try the accused?

Susan Candiotti takes a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A recording of Cuban pilots excited after shooting down two small unarmed planes over international airspace. It was 1996.

MARCO JIMENEZ, U.S. ATTORNEY: This was an act of premeditated murder.

CANDIOTTI: Now, seven years later, as charges were announced, families of Anti-Castro U.S. National Victims held pictures of their relatives. But, reporters asked, why did it take so long? And did political pressure lead to Thursday's indictments?

JIMENEZ: It is not based on political considerations. That's not what we do. It's based solely on justice.

CANDIOTTI: Yet, high-ranking Cuban-American activists tell CNN that, in fact, threats to withhold support from President Bush in 2004 played a critical role.

In recent weeks, exiles, largely huge Bush backers, have been publicly taking on the administration. That's when migrants like these, accused of hijacking a boat, were sent back to Cuba after the U.S. negotiating a deal limiting any punishment to 10 years. They have also demanded more government funding for anti-Castro broadcasts into Cuba and changes in immigration policy.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Cuba must be free.

CANDIOTTI: Exiles say they need more than promises from the White House.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They cannot take our vote for granted.

CANDIOTTI: Jose Pasulto (ph) is a survivor of the shootdown.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I could say that the mood in this community demanded some sort of political action in behalf of the Cuban people.

CANDIOTTI: Did they get it? The same day as the indictments, some improvements announced for Radio and TV Marti.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think this community expressed its concern. I think it's important that our concerns be heard. They have been in Washington. And I think this is a step to address those concerns.

CANDIOTTI (on camera): The Justice Department says its investigation of the shootdown is not over. And the White House is not yet responding to questions from CNN about pressure from Cuban exiles, whose support it does not want to lose, especially in Florida.

Susan Candiotti, CNN, Miami.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: Still ahead on NEWSNIGHT: alive and well in Baghdad? How one woman survived the U.N. bomb, surprising her family, who was already planning her funeral.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: The family of Marilyn Manuel has been spending the last few days planning her funeral. Now, because of one late-night phone call from Iraq, they are planning something else. They are planning her homecoming. It's a remarkable story a massive mixup and a tragedy that wasn't. Perhaps that is the only good story to come out of the bombing in Baghdad this week.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN (voice-over): It was the news Benjamin Manuel was praying he wouldn't hear. On Tuesday afternoon, representatives from the U.N. told him that his wife, Marilyn, a top aid to Sergio Vieira de Mello, had been killed in the Baghdad bombing. His son Erik was with him.

BENJAMIN MANUEL, WIFE SURVIVED IRAQ BOMBING: I showed them inside of the house. Eric told me that they are from the U.N. They would like to talk to you. It's really bad news. But I told them, I don't believe this. I want to see her. I don't believe you.

KAGAN: On Wednesday, at their home in Queens, the family prayed while they began making funeral arrangements. But then, at 3:00 a.m. on Thursday, the Manuels' prayers were answered. The nightmare was over.

ERIK MANUEL, MOTHER SURVIVED IRAQ BOMBING: It was amazing. My sister and I had answered the phone. The signal was weak. And we couldn't hear her. We said, "Hello, hello?" Basically, she said, "Rick, it's mom." And I'm like: "Who? Mom?" And once I said that, they say everyone came running out.

KAGAN: Marilyn Manuel was calling from an Army field hospital outside of Baghdad. She wanted to know if everyone was OK.

VANESSA MANUEL, SURVIVED IRAQ BOMBING: It was like a chance to say what you want to say, even though we say it to each other all the time, but now with more fervor and more meaning. And we just said: We love you very much. We love you. Just get home.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: Well, the family said today that they haven't how this mixup happened in the first place. They U.N. has offered no official comment yet. But U.N. sources tell CNN they suspect that the U.N. worker was confused with a Spanish naval captain with the same last name who did die in the bombing.

That is going to do it for us. I'm Daryn Kagan. Aaron Brown will be back in this seat on Monday.

You have a great weekend.

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