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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown

Pyongyang Prepared to Identify Itself as Nuclear Power; Blair Appears at Inquiry Over Kelly's Suicide; Bustamante, Schwarzenegger Hit Campaign Trail

Aired August 28, 2003 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR: And good evening to all of you.
We don't envy the challenge facing American diplomats in Beijing tonight. They have to size up what the North Koreans said today about possessing and testing a nuclear weapon and try to decide whether they're dead serious or just serving up bluster.

Their challenge is where we begin the whip, so we begin the whip with White House reaction tonight. Senior White House Correspondent John King is on that from Crawford, Texas, John the headline.

JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Judy, a defiant North Korea today told the United States and other countries it was prepared to publicly declare itself a nuclear power and perhaps even to test a nuclear weapon, exactly the opposite of what the Bush administration wants, yet the administration's reaction quite low key. They're hoping it's just a bluff -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: All right and on to Beijing where the talks involving North Korea are being held. Mike Chinoy is on the videophone -- Mike, the headline.

MIKE CHINOY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Judy, the six nation talks are going to wind up on Friday most likely with an agreement for the six parties to meet again here in Beijing in October but North Korea's admission that it is a nuclear power could vastly complicate this nuclear crisis -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: All right, and the latest now on the California recall race, Dan Lothian is on that from Fresno, California, Dan the headline.

DAN LOTHIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Judy, Arnold Schwarzenegger took his campaign long distance all the way to Fresno, California but he couldn't escape the nagging questions about an interview he did more than 20 years ago -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: And we'll get back to that as well.

Meantime, a painful day for many of the families of 9/11, transcripts released of some of the emergency calls from the World Trade Center that day. Maria Hinojosa is following that one for us, Maria the headline. MARIA HINOJOSA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Judy, two weeks shy of the second anniversary of the attack on the World Trade Center and families of victims of September 11 are now seeing 2,000 pages of transcripts from the Port Authority, the last communications of their loved ones. Many thought this would never become public. Many are upset it did -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: And they are disturbing reading, all right, Maria, thanks very much and back with all of you in a moment.

Also coming up tonight on NEWSNIGHT, the march on Washington 40 years ago today, Jeff Greenfield looks at the sea change the march ushered in, not just in civil rights but in politics as well.

A controversial new movie that gives a very troubling look at being 13, we'll talk with one of the stars and writers of the film. She's 15.

And, as Harley turns 100, we'll look at the easy riders who wouldn't think of buying any other bike in the world, images of the Harley faithful.

All that to come in the hour ahead but we begin tonight with today's verbal bombshell at the talks in Beijing, if diplomacy is one part high stakes poker this was quite an opening bet by North Korea. The question now for the region and the world, and especially the Bush administration is, is it a bluff?

Two reports tonight, CNN's John King starts us off.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KING (voice-over): North Korea's startling declaration came on day two of six party talks in Beijing. U.S. officials tell CNN North Korea's deputy foreign minister told the delegates that Pyongyang is prepared to publicly declare itself a nuclear power, to conduct a nuclear test and has the means to deliver nuclear weapons.

It was a defiant response to the U.S. demand that North Korea agree to permanently dismantle its nuclear weapons program, yet the Bush administration's reaction was decidedly low key.

The White House said: "North Korea has a long history of making inflammatory comments that serve to isolate it from the rest of the world." And, President Bush was described as happy with the talks, especially with cooperation from Russia and China.

PHIL REEKER, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: We've had talks with all of the other countries leading up to these six party talks and there is strong agreement that there needs to be a de-nuclearized Korean peninsula.

KING: North Korea is perhaps the world's most unpredictable regime. U.S. officials say Pyongyang's delegates in Beijing also have talked of dismantling the nuclear program and of their interest in a second round of negotiations after this round ends Friday. MICHAEL O'HANLON, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: The North Koreans are playing essentially a hot and cold game here. They're showing up at these talks trying to seem conciliatory and reasonable but also trying to sound tough and willing to use force or willing to make big threats.

KING: Mr. Bush has repeatedly refused to characterize the nuclear showdown as a crisis but back in May he and South Korea's president said flatly they will not tolerate nuclear weapons in North Korea.

(on camera): So, while most administration officials consider this tough talk simply a negotiating tactic and believe a diplomatic solution is still possible, they also are well aware at the White House that if North Korea declares itself to be a nuclear power or if it tests a nuclear weapon the president's credibility will be on the line and very difficult military options on the table.

John King, CNN Crawford, Texas.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: As we said at the top the big question is are the North Koreans bluffing or has something changed this time around, Mike Chinoy now with that.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHINOY (voice-over): Five years ago, North Korea test fired a long range missile. It flew over Japan and raised the possibility the North might develop a missile capable of hitting the United States. What was especially significant was when they did it, just before September 9, the 50th anniversary of the founding of North Korea.

I was in Pyongyang then with a CNN camera crew and this is the reaction we saw. The North Koreans laid on one of their amazing propaganda displays and the missile test was the centerpiece. Over and over we were told the test was another triumph for North Korean leader Kim Jong-Il.

These kinds of displays are the backbone of North Korea's political system, the glue the state uses to keep everything together when everything else seems to be falling apart.

What does this mean now? Well, September 9 is less than two weeks away. A lot of North Korea watchers think this upcoming 55th anniversary could be the moment King Jong-Il's regime openly declares itself a nuclear power and maybe even conducts underground nuclear tests.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHINOY: That would be really bad news for the United States because in their political system having taken such a step how are the North Koreans ever going to back down and, if they don't, the U.S. and the rest of the world will really have a nuclear crisis -- Judy. WOODRUFF: Mike, the thinking has been here in Washington that China could be helpful in mediating with the North Koreans. What evidence is there that the Chinese are doing some mediating?

CHINOY: Well, the Chinese have leaned very heavily on the North Koreans to attend this meeting. Diplomats say that Chinese officials before these six nation talks really put the pressure on North Korean leader Kim Jong-Il both to come here and to scale back his nuclear program.

But, the North Koreans are annoyed at the Chinese by all accounts. They resent the pressure and this very tough line from the North Koreans that the meeting here could be in part intended as the North Korean signal to Beijing what the North Koreans think of the Chinese pressure is that they're just going to ignore it and carry on developing their nuclear weapons -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: Now, Mike, is there any other country that the North Koreans are listening to?

CHINOY: The North Koreans really march to their own beat and that's been true for a very long time and the Russians and the Chinese, their long-time allies, have lobbied hard for the North Koreans to take a more restrained position.

However, particularly in the wake of the war in Iraq there's a lot of concern that the North Korean leadership has decided it has to have a nuclear bomb or two for its own security and that whatever kind of deal might eventually be under discussion with the U.S. they're not going to give up that basic nuclear capability. They feel it's essential for their own survival and in the end regime survival is what Kim Jong-Il is most concerned about -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: And potentially a scary thought, scary scenario. All right, Mike Chinoy reporting for us from Beijing. Thank you, Mike.

Well, Mike mentioned Iraq and Iraq is next and efforts to get other countries to buy into the occupation. It is a delicate process because the Bush administration doesn't want to give up political or military control.

So, a United Nations resolution is being drafted. It calls for the U.N. Security Council to give a peacekeeping mandate to occupation forces. An American commander would remain in charge and today a State Department spokesman says the administration continues to seek global input on the proposal. With that in mind, Secretary of State Powell made calls today to Italy's foreign minister and Britain's Foreign Secretary Jack Straw.

Well, the foreign secretary's boss, meantime, was in the hot seat. Prime Minister Tony Blair testified today at the inquiry into the apparent suicide of David Kelly.

Mr. Kelly, you might recall, was the weapons expert who became one of the sources of a BBC story that the Blair government had exaggerated its intelligence dossier on Iraq. Today, the prime minister said if the BBC reporting had been correct he would have resigned but didn't, he said, because it wasn't.

Here's CNN's Robin Oakley.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROBIN OAKLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Answering questions like being greeted by protesters is part of the job description for prime ministers. Mr. Blair didn't appear troubled by the inquiring probing which some had queued all night to see.

The prime minister did reveal, though, his anger at BBC allegations that 10 Downing Street had inserted into the dossier the claim Saddam Hussein could deploy weapons of mass destruction at 45 minutes notice despite knowing those claims to be wrong and against the wishes of the intelligence services.

Denying the BBC claims, Mr. Blair told the inquiry: "This was an attack which went to the heart of the Office of Prime Minister ad the way our intelligence services operated. If true, it would have merited my resignation."

Mr. Blair defended his communications director Alastair Campbell revealed as making suggestions toughening up the language. Fine, said Mr. Blair, so long as only intelligence chiefs decided what was included and, Blair says, they did. "I think we described the intelligence in a way that was perfectly justified."

Mr. Blair was questioned about the government's role in pushing Dr. Kelly into the public glare of a grilling by lawmakers on the Foreign Affairs Committee. He acknowledged the problem but said he couldn't be party to a cover-up.

"I was really not sure what the right way to handle this issue was, but I knew we should not be in a situation where we could be accused of misleading the F.A.C." Commentators mostly feel Mr. Blair breezed through the hearing.

CHARLES REISS, POLITICAL EDITOR, "EVENING STANDARD": He looked a bit tense to start with but he was never, I thought, seriously troubled or seriously thrown onto the defensive.

OAKLEY: "It's grim for me and it's grim for TV," Mr. Blair's communications chief Alastair Campbell wrote in his diary over the Kelly affair.

(on camera): Mr. Blair's day at the inquiry wasn't nearly as grim as his political opponents had predicted. But Lord Hutton's probings go on and analysts say that with two-thirds of the British public telling opinion pollsters they don't trust the government, it will take more than one polished performance from Mr. Blair at the inquiry, to restore public confidence.

Robin Oakley CNN at the Royal Courts of Justice, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE) WOODRUFF: A few more stories from around the world now before we go to break.

Staying in London for a moment where two weeks to the day after New Yorkers saw the lights go out, Brits got a taste of the darkness too. The blackout struck right in the middle of evening rush hour so the subways shut down. It lasted about an hour and a half a faulty transformer apparently to blame.

And in the Middle East today the killing of another member of Hamas, an Israeli helicopter firing a missile hitting the donkey cart carrying a man said to be a Hamas military coordinator. This was the fourth such killing in the past week.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT more on Tony Blair and the fallout from the so-called dodgy dossier.

We'll go back to California for the latest on the recall election campaign.

And later, newly released transcripts of emergency communications on September 11 that are both troubling and illuminating.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: More now on the infamous intelligence dossier and the embattled prime minister.

Lionel Barber is the U.S. managing editor for the "Financial Times." He joins us from New York. Welcome to the program. Lionel Barber, we just heard Robin Oakley say the consensus was the prime minister breezed through today's questioning. How did you see it? What are you hearing?

LIONEL BARBER, "FINANCIAL TIMES": Well, it was a very prime ministerial performance, very assured in contrast to the defense secretary's performance the day before, Geoff Hoon, and the prime minister spoke fairly candidly.

And then offered a melodramatic gesture saying that if indeed this dodgy dossier had been wrong or the allegation been correct that he actually embellished intelligence about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction he would have resigned.

So in that sense I think he gets off the hook. The wider question, of course, are the repercussions of the affair in the court of public opinion and also those questions about whether the U.K. was really justified in going to war.

WOODRUFF: Well, what about this inquiry? What has it really uncovered?

BARBER: I think it has already shown a picture of a government in some turmoil desperate to make the case for going to war, not particularly efficient, a prime minister desperately seeking to find ways of supporting his close ally, President Bush. And also, on the media side, if we can talk about the media for a moment, the BBC I think certainly the reporter concerned Andrew Gilligan, whose report suggested that the government had embellished the dossier, perhaps some of the news management there was less than rigorous.

After all, one of the other reporters also involved in this and who's covering the story, she took a very different view of her conversation with the weapons expert Mr. Kelly.

WOODRUFF: Well, just with regard to the prime minister how much of a crisis is this for him? You've got public opinion polls in your country now showing that his favorability rating has gone from something like, what, 75 percent back a couple of years ago, several years ago, to 25 percent. Only 22 percent of Britons think the government is telling the truth. How big a problem is the Blair administration facing?

BARBER: Well, short term, I think the prime minister may not have breezed through but he after a few little bumps I think he did pretty well today and I think that he received very important support from the intelligence community. They essentially said they prepared this dossier in good faith.

The real question is in the medium term. I think that the prime minister's -- there's been a certain erosion of trust, a quality before which he really enjoyed and where in several other rocky moments during his (unintelligible) we think back to the time when he really pressured the U.S. to take military action in Kosovo. That was an unpopular conflict in Britain but he was able to make the case and everybody supported him.

The other factor I think which helps Mr. Blair is that the conservative opposition is not strong at all. They're squabbling and bickering so there isn't really a strong parliamentary opposition to him and, therefore, he'll ride this one out I think.

WOODRUFF: Well, that's going to be the last word. Lionel Barber with the "Financial Times" thank you very much. We appreciate your insights tonight. Thank you.

BARBER: Thank you, Judy.

WOODRUFF: And next we turn to California and the evolution of Arnold. After taking criticism early on for being fuzzy on the issues, Arnold Schwarzenegger has been getting specific on talk radio and on the campaign trail, not to mention downright explicit on the pages of a skin magazine.

The interview which resurfaced today ran back in 1977 in "We," a kind of cut rate "Penthouse." Twenty-six years later, somebody finally picked up a copy and, for a change, went straight for the articles.

Here's CNN's Dan Lothian.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LOTHIAN (voice-over): Saying he had come not as the "Kindergarten Cop" but as someone who loves children, Arnold Schwarzenegger took his campaign to an academy in the central California city of Fresno, his first long distance trip since entering the recall race.

ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER (R), CA GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: When I'm governor I will make sure that we pay a lot of attention, which this is my priority is education.

LOTHIAN: In this heavy agricultural area, Schwarzenegger toured a peach packing plant, then was forced to confront nagging questions about a racy interview he conducted with an x-rated magazine 26 years ago.

SCHWARZENEGGER: I have no idea what you're talking about. I'm not paying any attention to all of those things. I have no memory of any of the articles I did 20 or 30 years ago.

LOTHIAN: One day after outlining his position on various social issues...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you support gay marriage?

SCHWARZENEGGER: I do support domestic partnership.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But not gay marriage?

SCHWARZENEGGER: No. I think that gay marriage is something that should be between a man and a woman.

LOTHIAN: Schwarzenegger was still not offering specifics about fixing the state's budget deficit only saying that he's out stumping to push his economic agenda.

Meantime, his Democratic opponent was talking about high gas prices. Lieutenant Governor Cruz Bustamante took his campaign to a Sacramento gas station saying consumers were being gouged at the pumps.

LT. GOV. CRUZ BUSTAMANTE (D), GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: Californians are being gouged and under current law we are powerless to do anything about it. Six oil companies control 90 percent of the California market.

LOTHIAN: Governor Gray Davis was also in Sacramento but not campaigning, his agenda focusing on the environment, fighting pollution, and pushing for cleaner air standards.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LOTHIAN: Bustamante was asked about the controversial Schwarzenegger interview. He said that voters don't care about those things. They care about the issues and he said now is not the time to look back but to look forward -- Judy. WOODRUFF: Dan, how do you account for the different approach that Schwarzenegger is taking to this article in the magazine from 25 or so years ago? Last night when he was asked about it he said, well those were things that I did when I was a young person. I didn't know then I was going to be a politician, didn't know I was going to run for governor. Tonight, though, he seemed to be, you know, up tight about it.

LOTHIAN: That's true and I did after he answered the question, I did shout at him then was this article just simply a lie? And, he ignored my question and picked another reporter who was standing in front of me.

Later, one of his people trying to clarify what he had said, said you know people like this do a lot of interviews over all these years and they do a lot of things in their life and it's difficult sometimes to say whether or not they said a particular thing in a particular interview. So, it seems like this is something that perhaps he didn't expect would grow to this level and now they're trying to figure out how to deal with it.

WOODRUFF: All right and the questions I guess will keep coming, at least tonight. We'll see about tomorrow.

LOTHIAN: That's right.

WOODRUFF: Dan Lothian thank you very much.

Coming up on NEWSNIGHT, new details about September 11, revealed through transcripts of emergency calls. We'll have details and we will talk with one police officer who survived in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: Connected to Iraq in many ways, two weeks from today the world will mark the two year anniversary of 9/11 what is sure to be a solemn, reflective event.

But today brought the immediate horror of that morning flooding back when the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey released transcripts of taped emergency calls that day, the "New York Times" had wanted them released.

Many of the families did not and reading through them it's not hard to see why, the story from CNN's Maria Hinojosa.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HINOJOSA (voice-over): For two years, Laurie Tjietjen has struggled to create a picture in her mind of how her brother, Port Authority Police Office Kenneth Tjietjen died on September 11.

LAURIE TJIETJEN, VICTIM'S SISTER: You have a thought in your head about what you think happened that day and, you know, in my case how my brother died that day and it's sort of something that you can live with, you can sleep at night with. And then, you have, you know I refer to it as my worst nightmare and these transcripts were beyond my worst nightmare.

HINOJOSA: The transcripts contain chilling and gory accounts of her brother's final moments.

TJIETJEN: The documents that they wrote were never meant for public eyes.

HINOJOSA: There are 2,000 pages of them, transcripts of 260 hours of the radio and telephone conversations between people like Kenneth Tjietjen, rescuers, and the 83 other Port Authority employees who did not survive.

"A male caller says: Something blew up at the trade center. A female gasps. A male says: Either a plane crashed into the trade center or a rocket hit. People are all over the place dead. Female: Really? Male: I'm going to be here. I just wanted to let you know I'm OK because you would have saw this on the news. You would have thought uh-oh."

There are also handwritten and typed notes of survivors that paint a vivid picture of the terrible things these people were seeing. Lieutenant Ed Gutch wrote: "I observed numerous individuals jumping from 1 WTC, striking the sidewalk, a telephone pole, and the overhead covering of VIP Drive."

GREG TREVOR, PORT AUTHORITY SPOKESMAN: We have always known in our hearts that these people were heroes to the very end on that morning. These transcripts prove that we were right.

HINOJOSA: The paper documents were released for a $500 fee, the result of a lawsuit by the "New York Times" which angered the victims' families and survivors like Officer David Lim.

OFFICER DAVID LIM, PORT AUTHORITY POLICE: Put yourself in that position, you know. If that was your husband out there, would you really want the world to hear him, you know, saying his last words to you or would you want that in a private hearing, you know, that the Port Authority would be more than happy to provide?

HINOJOSA: The Port Authority scrambled to get copies to family members like Laurie Tjietjen before they had to read them in the media. She hopes the public will not focus on the many disturbing accounts, police jargon, and the last messages out but rather the messages their loved ones gave their entire lives.

TJIETJEN: The only thing that this did for me and my family was take away the peace that we worked so hard to get for the past two years and, you know, especially with the anniversary coming up this is the second year and we should be celebrating their lives not rehashing their deaths.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HINOJOSA: These will be some very difficult days for many of these families, even those who say they don't want to see the transcripts will not be able to escape the media attention, all of this just two weeks before the second anniversary of the trade center attacks -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: Maria, I think all of us are riveted by what you're describing and by what people, what we'll be reading about tomorrow in the newspapers. But as you looked through this what is new in this material?

HINOJOSA: I think it's hard to say what's new. I mean, there's 2,000 pages of this, Judy. There are conversations between officers. There's confusion, in terms of where they should be going. There are problems in terms of communications. These things, we all knew.

There are stories of heroism as well. In fact, I have a stack here. This is just the people who are going to be nominated for heroes. These are survivors. But I think what's new is that this will bring up a lot of pain once again for the families, people who had thought they had moved just a little bit forward. And, again, they are going to be just put right back two years ago, unfortunately.

WOODRUFF: I read one transcript, a very touching transcript of a father, a police officer, saying goodbye to his son and saying, "Take care of mom, because I won't be home."

HINOJOSA: Oh, so hard. So, so hard.

WOODRUFF: Maria Hinojosa, thanks very much.

Well, we want to talk a little more about the release of the transcripts with the Port Authority police officer you just heard from in Maria's piece. David Lim is part of the explosives detector team. He was at the Trade Center command station when the attacks took place. He did survive, but his bomb-sniffing dog, Sirius, did not.

David Lim joins us now from New York.

This is difficult for you and, I assume, difficult for the families of all others you knew in the Port Authority police force who did not make it.

DAVID LIM, NEW YORK PORT AUTHORITY: Yes, it's very difficult, Judy.

I think I've said before that I think that it was probably a little more inappropriate that these transcripts were put out. I don't see any real purpose. I know what happened that day. Obviously, I don't need transcripts to remind me of that day.

But I think to put the families through this is very difficult. And for those who really did want to hear this or see this, the Port Authority was more than happy to have private hearings for these people. I think this could have been handled a little bit better.

WOODRUFF: In reading through this and hearing Maria Hinojosa describe it, graphic descriptions of people jumping, people falling to their deaths, conversations, people desperate for air. There was one police sergeant who described it as -- he said, this was like a biblical description of hell. Is that anything close to what you remember?

LIM: I would think that's a pretty good analogy.

Not ever being in hell, obviously, I think that's about the closest that any of us ever want to get to that kind of a situation. And his description was probably apropos for what was happening. Everybody, although it was a hellish-type of situation, as you will see in most of these transcripts, because I know because I heard it firsthand, obviously, that the Port Authority Police acted in a professional manner and managed to help rescue over 25,000 people, with the assistance of other agencies, of course.

But we were the first one in and we were the last ones out.

WOODRUFF: Some extraordinary, extraordinary heroes.

David Lim, it's now been, as we've said, almost two years. Do you think it gets any easier for you or for the family members of the others in the Port Authority who died?

LIM: Well, I can speak for myself, of course.

I think it gets a little easier. There are times, of course, when we get close to the anniversary, where I start thinking a little bit more about it. And I think it's a lot harder on those family members that you just spoke about that have to go through this. And, as Ms. Tietjen said, just when you think you are getting ahead a little bit, something like this comes back. And I don't really see how that helps.

Personally, on my level, I think I'm in a better place now than I was, obviously, two years ago. But it's going to be a while before I guess I am completely OK.

WOODRUFF: Does it make you any more angry at the people who were behind this? Or do you think it's impossible to be any more outraged at what they did?

LIM: I don't think you can be any more angry. I think that our country did the right thing by going into Afghanistan, going after the people that were responsible for this.

I think that they're doing the best that they can. I mean, part of the problems that we had here is that feeling of the helplessness for a police officer facing an enemy we can't see. That was very frustrating, of course. But I know our men and women overseas did the right thing and did the job, finished the job for us. And we'll always appreciate that.

WOODRUFF: Well, David Lim, I know Americans appreciate what you and the other police and fire workers did on that awful day. Thank you very much, David Lim, with the New York Port Authority police force. We appreciate your talking to us. Thank you.

As NEWSNIGHT continues: the March On Washington 40 years ago today. Jeff Greenfield looks at its meaning and its impact in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: In "The New York Times" 40 years ago tomorrow, one of the reports said this: "The civil rights demonstration that swept more than 200,000 people through the capital today appeared to have left much of Congress untouched, physically, emotionally and politically."

But that resistance to change wasn't to last. The March On Washington not only changed people's lives, but it also helped to redraw the political landscape of the next 40 years.

Some thoughts from CNN's Jeff Greenfield.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARTIN LUTHER KING JR., CIVIL RIGHTS LEADER: I have a dream.

JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SR. ANALYST (voice-over): They are four of the most memorable words in recent history. For 40 years, they have served to define that moment that is now an official element of national pride.

(on camera): But the endless focus on that bit of splendid rhetoric should not obscure the bigger meaning of that march. It was a political event that helped produce some major political consequences, not all of them intended.

(voice-over): First, while that march is celebrated today, it was a controversial event 40 years ago. The fear of violence was so great that the Kennedy administration tried to discourage it. As it turned out, the March On Washington was a high watermark for postwar American liberalism.

Organized labor, under fire from civil rights group for keeping many unions segregated, threw money and manpower behind the march, one reason why the goal was broadened from simply civil rights to a march for jobs and freedom. The weather was good. And the crowd was remarkably upbeat.

As a young journalist covering that march, I still remember the sheer good-natured optimism. And King's speech was similarly optimistic and inclusive. The revolutionary line which he used was from the American Revolution, literally. Listen.

KING: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

GREENFIELD: By quoting the Declaration of Independence, King was saying that the civil rights movement was a challenge to America to be what it said it was. He was embracing the ideal, not scorning it as an empty promise, but asking that that promise be kept.

Within a year, the first major civil rights act, the Public Accommodations Act of 1964, was law. That same year, Republicans, who had helped passed that law through the Congress, nominated Barry Goldwater as their presidential candidate. He had opposed that law. And the political results were predictable.

Black Americans moved solidly into the Democratic camp, while Southern whites began to defect. South Carolina Senator Strom Thurmond became the first major Democrat to bolt to the Republican Party. Within a few years, Alabama Governor George Wallace would win five Southern states as a third-party presidential candidate, further pulling whites away from the Democratic Party

And the nonviolent, inclusive message of King would be challenged by more militant black voices, Malcolm X, Stokely Carmichael, H. Rap Brown.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will use that violence to rid ourselves of oppression, if necessary.

GREENFIELD: The political consequences are dramatic. The once solidly Democratic South is now heavily Republican. In the last 30 years, only Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton have won any electoral votes in the South for the Democrats. And in the House and Senate, the once overwhelmingly Democratic Southern delegations are now mostly Republican.

(on camera): Of course, politics is only one way of measuring the impact of an event. The real sea change is what happened in a country where segregation, official and otherwise, was once a way of life. Measured by a dozen different standards, open doors, seats at the table where only white faces were seen, a national consensus that King's fight was a matter of simple justice, measured by those standards, we did overcome.

Jeff Greenfield, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: And a postscript. We would like to thank Intellectual Properties Management as the manager of the King estate for use of portions of the "I have a dream" speech. The King family asks that we remind viewers to further Dr. King's legacy by making community service a way of life. They encourage you to visit the King Center's Web site -- it's www.TheKingCenter.org -- to find a volunteer opportunity in your neighborhood.

Well, not far from the Baptist church where Dr. King once preached, a rally took place today. More than 1,000 people jammed the plaza of the Alabama judicial building in Montgomery, Alabama. They came to voice their support for Chief Justice Roy Moore and the now- hidden Ten Commandments monument. As for the monument itself, the governor of Mississippi has offered to put it on display in his state capital.

And at Baylor University in Waco, Texas, tonight, a memorial service for Patrick Dennehy, the murdered basketball player. This is the first such service to be held at the university. Most of the students were away for the summer when Patrick Dennehy was killed.

NEWSNIGHT continues in a moment with the story of "Thirteen," a new movie, and the teenager who wrote and stars in it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: Nikki Reed is a precocious teenager in more ways than one. She's a writer and she's the star of the new film "Thirteen," even though she is not yet old enough to drive. And what she depicts in the movie is a world where teenaged girls are growing up and going astray at warp speed, something drawn from her own experience.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THIRTEEN")

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS: For the project, I'm doing J.Lo. What about you?

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS: I am doing Usher.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS: I have to go to the bathroom really quick.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS: Cute shirt.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS: Thanks.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS: Cute top.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS: Call me after school. We can go shopping on Melrose.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WOODRUFF: Nikki Reed joins us now from Los Angeles.

And, Nikki Reed, I have not seen the movie yet. I hope to see it very soon, but I am told that it is going -- that it will shock some of the parents and maybe even some of the teenagers who see it. Is that what you intended?

NIKKI REED, ACTRESS/WRITER: I had no intentions, but everything that's been happening has been great so far. And it definitely will shock some parents and some teenagers. And different reactions are great.

WOODRUFF: How much of this movie is true, is based on either what you saw or what you know or what you yourself experienced?

REED: I did go through a lot of the same things that Tracy went through, but I don't want to call the film autobiographical, because a lot of the stuff that went into it came from what was going on around me. So it was still my life, but not exactly things that were happening to me personally. WOODRUFF: The movie really focuses on a girl and on the relationship between girls primarily.

REED: Yes, the jealousy, the competition between girls.

WOODRUFF: And why -- can you help parents who are watching understand why maybe it's so much harder for girls of that age, your age, than maybe it is for boys?

REED: I'm not a guy, so I don't really understand their mentality.

But I do have an older brother who's only one year older than me, 16. And I think, at this age, girls are really insecure, really self- conscience, really in their own head, always overthinking things, whereas guys do have a lot going on, but in different ways.

Girls are more internal, I think. Guys are more external. I really don't know what to say about that. But both genders have a hard time in school. It's not any easier for one or the other, I don't think.

WOODRUFF: Now, you helped -- you wrote this with -- was it is your father's former girlfriend. Is that right?

REED: Yes.

WOODRUFF: And you did it in a very short time.

REED: Six days. Six days, we wrote the film. I know.

WOODRUFF: It's amazing.

Let me ask you without, again, giving away more of the film, what do you say to parents who are going to go see this film in terms of what they might do to keep this from happening from their own children?

REED: This isn't really a film that parents are going to come see and learn something about parenting and learn what to do, what's right and what's wrong.

The only advice I can give is, come see the film open-minded and don't want the film and want to cling to your kid even more. I hope that kids and parents see the film together and parents learn to be OK and understand the space that kids need at this age, trying to find themselves, trying to be more independent, trying to grow up, go through this transition, instead of hold on to them even tighter after seeing it.

WOODRUFF: In other words, you're saying parents need to let go more?

REED: Some do and some need to hold on tighter. Some do need to let go more, yes. WOODRUFF: And how does -- as the mother of a teenager, I guess I'm relating to what you're saying and wondering how do you know when to hold on tight and how do you know when to let go more.

REED: You don't. There are no right or wrong answers. It's -- I think it's just as hard for parents as it is for kids.

I don't know what to tell you. I really have no advice to give you and tell you when is the right time, except just to observe and don't be in denial, just be open to hearing whatever your kid does or doesn't have to say.

WOODRUFF: More movies in your future?

REED: Hopefully. Hopefully.

WOODRUFF: All right, Nikki Reed, who co-wrote and was one of the stars of the movie just out, "Thirteen" -- Nikki Reed, thanks very much for talking with us tonight.

REED: Thank you, Judy.

WOODRUFF: We appreciate it.

Still ahead on NEWSNIGHT: the last Harley piece of day, a trip around America with hog lovers in still life.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: It's a little strange to think of that ultimate symbol of youthful rebellion, the Harley, as being old enough for Willard Scott to celebrate. But Harley-Davidson is turning 100. And the icon has matured along the way.

When you think of "Easy Rider," keep in mind that Peter Fonda these days is almost eligible for Social Security. Harley is now for all ages, all incomes, and all colors. And Harley fanatics are now two-wheeling their way into Milwaukee for the centennial party.

Photographer Peter Turnley worked for the company over the past year, capturing images of Harley lovers the world over.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PETER TURNLEY, PHOTOJOURNALIST: I had never witnessed before what it looks like to see a large group of motorcyclists that really know what they are doing and that take it seriously and ride in formation. And it was breathtaking. It was like a moving ballet to photograph.

This year of exposure to the world of Harley-Davidson has been absolutely one of the most amazing experiences of my lifetime. I would never have known that the world of Harley-Davidson motorcycling could be full of so many dimensions of life that go beyond simply motorcycles.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I first got this Harley, I cried, because it was almost a religious experience for me.

TURNLEY: It was a great discovery to witness people riding motorcycles, not only from all over the world, but from all different ethnic backgrounds, racial backgrounds, people of different social class, different age group.

Each motorcycle and each individual represented really a notion of individuality. Everyone puts their own special touch on their motorcycle, on the clothes they wear, on their presence. It's a very -- quite frankly, a very sensual, even sexy world. It's a world of exposure to incredibly majestic and vast landscapes, a world of being outdoors, of being exposed to the elements, and, at the same time, sharing a passion with other people. That passion seems to go beyond motorcycling.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's just a freedom to get out there and do it. I tell people, you only live once, but, if you do it right, once is enough.

TURNLEY: One of my favorite stories during this year was when I encountered a rider from Texas, and I asked him why he liked riding a Harley-Davidson. And he said: I guess bikers are probably the only people in the world that understand why dogs put their head out the window when a car's moving.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's a great way to relax at the end of the day. It's a wonderful way to go through a midlife crisis.

TURNLEY: Riding a Harley-Davidson offers a lot of people a chance to dream, a chance to be someone they want to be, to live life in a way that they want to live life.

Maybe, in the end, one of the most appealing aspects of this whole experience was to see so many people doing what they looked like they really enjoyed doing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: Happy 100, Harley-Davidson.

That's it for NEWSNIGHT. I'm Judy Woodruff. Thanks for joining us.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





Blair Appears at Inquiry Over Kelly's Suicide; Bustamante, Schwarzenegger Hit Campaign Trail>


Aired August 28, 2003 - 22:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR: And good evening to all of you.
We don't envy the challenge facing American diplomats in Beijing tonight. They have to size up what the North Koreans said today about possessing and testing a nuclear weapon and try to decide whether they're dead serious or just serving up bluster.

Their challenge is where we begin the whip, so we begin the whip with White House reaction tonight. Senior White House Correspondent John King is on that from Crawford, Texas, John the headline.

JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Judy, a defiant North Korea today told the United States and other countries it was prepared to publicly declare itself a nuclear power and perhaps even to test a nuclear weapon, exactly the opposite of what the Bush administration wants, yet the administration's reaction quite low key. They're hoping it's just a bluff -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: All right and on to Beijing where the talks involving North Korea are being held. Mike Chinoy is on the videophone -- Mike, the headline.

MIKE CHINOY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Judy, the six nation talks are going to wind up on Friday most likely with an agreement for the six parties to meet again here in Beijing in October but North Korea's admission that it is a nuclear power could vastly complicate this nuclear crisis -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: All right, and the latest now on the California recall race, Dan Lothian is on that from Fresno, California, Dan the headline.

DAN LOTHIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Judy, Arnold Schwarzenegger took his campaign long distance all the way to Fresno, California but he couldn't escape the nagging questions about an interview he did more than 20 years ago -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: And we'll get back to that as well.

Meantime, a painful day for many of the families of 9/11, transcripts released of some of the emergency calls from the World Trade Center that day. Maria Hinojosa is following that one for us, Maria the headline. MARIA HINOJOSA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Judy, two weeks shy of the second anniversary of the attack on the World Trade Center and families of victims of September 11 are now seeing 2,000 pages of transcripts from the Port Authority, the last communications of their loved ones. Many thought this would never become public. Many are upset it did -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: And they are disturbing reading, all right, Maria, thanks very much and back with all of you in a moment.

Also coming up tonight on NEWSNIGHT, the march on Washington 40 years ago today, Jeff Greenfield looks at the sea change the march ushered in, not just in civil rights but in politics as well.

A controversial new movie that gives a very troubling look at being 13, we'll talk with one of the stars and writers of the film. She's 15.

And, as Harley turns 100, we'll look at the easy riders who wouldn't think of buying any other bike in the world, images of the Harley faithful.

All that to come in the hour ahead but we begin tonight with today's verbal bombshell at the talks in Beijing, if diplomacy is one part high stakes poker this was quite an opening bet by North Korea. The question now for the region and the world, and especially the Bush administration is, is it a bluff?

Two reports tonight, CNN's John King starts us off.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KING (voice-over): North Korea's startling declaration came on day two of six party talks in Beijing. U.S. officials tell CNN North Korea's deputy foreign minister told the delegates that Pyongyang is prepared to publicly declare itself a nuclear power, to conduct a nuclear test and has the means to deliver nuclear weapons.

It was a defiant response to the U.S. demand that North Korea agree to permanently dismantle its nuclear weapons program, yet the Bush administration's reaction was decidedly low key.

The White House said: "North Korea has a long history of making inflammatory comments that serve to isolate it from the rest of the world." And, President Bush was described as happy with the talks, especially with cooperation from Russia and China.

PHIL REEKER, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: We've had talks with all of the other countries leading up to these six party talks and there is strong agreement that there needs to be a de-nuclearized Korean peninsula.

KING: North Korea is perhaps the world's most unpredictable regime. U.S. officials say Pyongyang's delegates in Beijing also have talked of dismantling the nuclear program and of their interest in a second round of negotiations after this round ends Friday. MICHAEL O'HANLON, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: The North Koreans are playing essentially a hot and cold game here. They're showing up at these talks trying to seem conciliatory and reasonable but also trying to sound tough and willing to use force or willing to make big threats.

KING: Mr. Bush has repeatedly refused to characterize the nuclear showdown as a crisis but back in May he and South Korea's president said flatly they will not tolerate nuclear weapons in North Korea.

(on camera): So, while most administration officials consider this tough talk simply a negotiating tactic and believe a diplomatic solution is still possible, they also are well aware at the White House that if North Korea declares itself to be a nuclear power or if it tests a nuclear weapon the president's credibility will be on the line and very difficult military options on the table.

John King, CNN Crawford, Texas.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: As we said at the top the big question is are the North Koreans bluffing or has something changed this time around, Mike Chinoy now with that.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHINOY (voice-over): Five years ago, North Korea test fired a long range missile. It flew over Japan and raised the possibility the North might develop a missile capable of hitting the United States. What was especially significant was when they did it, just before September 9, the 50th anniversary of the founding of North Korea.

I was in Pyongyang then with a CNN camera crew and this is the reaction we saw. The North Koreans laid on one of their amazing propaganda displays and the missile test was the centerpiece. Over and over we were told the test was another triumph for North Korean leader Kim Jong-Il.

These kinds of displays are the backbone of North Korea's political system, the glue the state uses to keep everything together when everything else seems to be falling apart.

What does this mean now? Well, September 9 is less than two weeks away. A lot of North Korea watchers think this upcoming 55th anniversary could be the moment King Jong-Il's regime openly declares itself a nuclear power and maybe even conducts underground nuclear tests.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHINOY: That would be really bad news for the United States because in their political system having taken such a step how are the North Koreans ever going to back down and, if they don't, the U.S. and the rest of the world will really have a nuclear crisis -- Judy. WOODRUFF: Mike, the thinking has been here in Washington that China could be helpful in mediating with the North Koreans. What evidence is there that the Chinese are doing some mediating?

CHINOY: Well, the Chinese have leaned very heavily on the North Koreans to attend this meeting. Diplomats say that Chinese officials before these six nation talks really put the pressure on North Korean leader Kim Jong-Il both to come here and to scale back his nuclear program.

But, the North Koreans are annoyed at the Chinese by all accounts. They resent the pressure and this very tough line from the North Koreans that the meeting here could be in part intended as the North Korean signal to Beijing what the North Koreans think of the Chinese pressure is that they're just going to ignore it and carry on developing their nuclear weapons -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: Now, Mike, is there any other country that the North Koreans are listening to?

CHINOY: The North Koreans really march to their own beat and that's been true for a very long time and the Russians and the Chinese, their long-time allies, have lobbied hard for the North Koreans to take a more restrained position.

However, particularly in the wake of the war in Iraq there's a lot of concern that the North Korean leadership has decided it has to have a nuclear bomb or two for its own security and that whatever kind of deal might eventually be under discussion with the U.S. they're not going to give up that basic nuclear capability. They feel it's essential for their own survival and in the end regime survival is what Kim Jong-Il is most concerned about -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: And potentially a scary thought, scary scenario. All right, Mike Chinoy reporting for us from Beijing. Thank you, Mike.

Well, Mike mentioned Iraq and Iraq is next and efforts to get other countries to buy into the occupation. It is a delicate process because the Bush administration doesn't want to give up political or military control.

So, a United Nations resolution is being drafted. It calls for the U.N. Security Council to give a peacekeeping mandate to occupation forces. An American commander would remain in charge and today a State Department spokesman says the administration continues to seek global input on the proposal. With that in mind, Secretary of State Powell made calls today to Italy's foreign minister and Britain's Foreign Secretary Jack Straw.

Well, the foreign secretary's boss, meantime, was in the hot seat. Prime Minister Tony Blair testified today at the inquiry into the apparent suicide of David Kelly.

Mr. Kelly, you might recall, was the weapons expert who became one of the sources of a BBC story that the Blair government had exaggerated its intelligence dossier on Iraq. Today, the prime minister said if the BBC reporting had been correct he would have resigned but didn't, he said, because it wasn't.

Here's CNN's Robin Oakley.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROBIN OAKLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Answering questions like being greeted by protesters is part of the job description for prime ministers. Mr. Blair didn't appear troubled by the inquiring probing which some had queued all night to see.

The prime minister did reveal, though, his anger at BBC allegations that 10 Downing Street had inserted into the dossier the claim Saddam Hussein could deploy weapons of mass destruction at 45 minutes notice despite knowing those claims to be wrong and against the wishes of the intelligence services.

Denying the BBC claims, Mr. Blair told the inquiry: "This was an attack which went to the heart of the Office of Prime Minister ad the way our intelligence services operated. If true, it would have merited my resignation."

Mr. Blair defended his communications director Alastair Campbell revealed as making suggestions toughening up the language. Fine, said Mr. Blair, so long as only intelligence chiefs decided what was included and, Blair says, they did. "I think we described the intelligence in a way that was perfectly justified."

Mr. Blair was questioned about the government's role in pushing Dr. Kelly into the public glare of a grilling by lawmakers on the Foreign Affairs Committee. He acknowledged the problem but said he couldn't be party to a cover-up.

"I was really not sure what the right way to handle this issue was, but I knew we should not be in a situation where we could be accused of misleading the F.A.C." Commentators mostly feel Mr. Blair breezed through the hearing.

CHARLES REISS, POLITICAL EDITOR, "EVENING STANDARD": He looked a bit tense to start with but he was never, I thought, seriously troubled or seriously thrown onto the defensive.

OAKLEY: "It's grim for me and it's grim for TV," Mr. Blair's communications chief Alastair Campbell wrote in his diary over the Kelly affair.

(on camera): Mr. Blair's day at the inquiry wasn't nearly as grim as his political opponents had predicted. But Lord Hutton's probings go on and analysts say that with two-thirds of the British public telling opinion pollsters they don't trust the government, it will take more than one polished performance from Mr. Blair at the inquiry, to restore public confidence.

Robin Oakley CNN at the Royal Courts of Justice, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE) WOODRUFF: A few more stories from around the world now before we go to break.

Staying in London for a moment where two weeks to the day after New Yorkers saw the lights go out, Brits got a taste of the darkness too. The blackout struck right in the middle of evening rush hour so the subways shut down. It lasted about an hour and a half a faulty transformer apparently to blame.

And in the Middle East today the killing of another member of Hamas, an Israeli helicopter firing a missile hitting the donkey cart carrying a man said to be a Hamas military coordinator. This was the fourth such killing in the past week.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT more on Tony Blair and the fallout from the so-called dodgy dossier.

We'll go back to California for the latest on the recall election campaign.

And later, newly released transcripts of emergency communications on September 11 that are both troubling and illuminating.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: More now on the infamous intelligence dossier and the embattled prime minister.

Lionel Barber is the U.S. managing editor for the "Financial Times." He joins us from New York. Welcome to the program. Lionel Barber, we just heard Robin Oakley say the consensus was the prime minister breezed through today's questioning. How did you see it? What are you hearing?

LIONEL BARBER, "FINANCIAL TIMES": Well, it was a very prime ministerial performance, very assured in contrast to the defense secretary's performance the day before, Geoff Hoon, and the prime minister spoke fairly candidly.

And then offered a melodramatic gesture saying that if indeed this dodgy dossier had been wrong or the allegation been correct that he actually embellished intelligence about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction he would have resigned.

So in that sense I think he gets off the hook. The wider question, of course, are the repercussions of the affair in the court of public opinion and also those questions about whether the U.K. was really justified in going to war.

WOODRUFF: Well, what about this inquiry? What has it really uncovered?

BARBER: I think it has already shown a picture of a government in some turmoil desperate to make the case for going to war, not particularly efficient, a prime minister desperately seeking to find ways of supporting his close ally, President Bush. And also, on the media side, if we can talk about the media for a moment, the BBC I think certainly the reporter concerned Andrew Gilligan, whose report suggested that the government had embellished the dossier, perhaps some of the news management there was less than rigorous.

After all, one of the other reporters also involved in this and who's covering the story, she took a very different view of her conversation with the weapons expert Mr. Kelly.

WOODRUFF: Well, just with regard to the prime minister how much of a crisis is this for him? You've got public opinion polls in your country now showing that his favorability rating has gone from something like, what, 75 percent back a couple of years ago, several years ago, to 25 percent. Only 22 percent of Britons think the government is telling the truth. How big a problem is the Blair administration facing?

BARBER: Well, short term, I think the prime minister may not have breezed through but he after a few little bumps I think he did pretty well today and I think that he received very important support from the intelligence community. They essentially said they prepared this dossier in good faith.

The real question is in the medium term. I think that the prime minister's -- there's been a certain erosion of trust, a quality before which he really enjoyed and where in several other rocky moments during his (unintelligible) we think back to the time when he really pressured the U.S. to take military action in Kosovo. That was an unpopular conflict in Britain but he was able to make the case and everybody supported him.

The other factor I think which helps Mr. Blair is that the conservative opposition is not strong at all. They're squabbling and bickering so there isn't really a strong parliamentary opposition to him and, therefore, he'll ride this one out I think.

WOODRUFF: Well, that's going to be the last word. Lionel Barber with the "Financial Times" thank you very much. We appreciate your insights tonight. Thank you.

BARBER: Thank you, Judy.

WOODRUFF: And next we turn to California and the evolution of Arnold. After taking criticism early on for being fuzzy on the issues, Arnold Schwarzenegger has been getting specific on talk radio and on the campaign trail, not to mention downright explicit on the pages of a skin magazine.

The interview which resurfaced today ran back in 1977 in "We," a kind of cut rate "Penthouse." Twenty-six years later, somebody finally picked up a copy and, for a change, went straight for the articles.

Here's CNN's Dan Lothian.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LOTHIAN (voice-over): Saying he had come not as the "Kindergarten Cop" but as someone who loves children, Arnold Schwarzenegger took his campaign to an academy in the central California city of Fresno, his first long distance trip since entering the recall race.

ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER (R), CA GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: When I'm governor I will make sure that we pay a lot of attention, which this is my priority is education.

LOTHIAN: In this heavy agricultural area, Schwarzenegger toured a peach packing plant, then was forced to confront nagging questions about a racy interview he conducted with an x-rated magazine 26 years ago.

SCHWARZENEGGER: I have no idea what you're talking about. I'm not paying any attention to all of those things. I have no memory of any of the articles I did 20 or 30 years ago.

LOTHIAN: One day after outlining his position on various social issues...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you support gay marriage?

SCHWARZENEGGER: I do support domestic partnership.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But not gay marriage?

SCHWARZENEGGER: No. I think that gay marriage is something that should be between a man and a woman.

LOTHIAN: Schwarzenegger was still not offering specifics about fixing the state's budget deficit only saying that he's out stumping to push his economic agenda.

Meantime, his Democratic opponent was talking about high gas prices. Lieutenant Governor Cruz Bustamante took his campaign to a Sacramento gas station saying consumers were being gouged at the pumps.

LT. GOV. CRUZ BUSTAMANTE (D), GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: Californians are being gouged and under current law we are powerless to do anything about it. Six oil companies control 90 percent of the California market.

LOTHIAN: Governor Gray Davis was also in Sacramento but not campaigning, his agenda focusing on the environment, fighting pollution, and pushing for cleaner air standards.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LOTHIAN: Bustamante was asked about the controversial Schwarzenegger interview. He said that voters don't care about those things. They care about the issues and he said now is not the time to look back but to look forward -- Judy. WOODRUFF: Dan, how do you account for the different approach that Schwarzenegger is taking to this article in the magazine from 25 or so years ago? Last night when he was asked about it he said, well those were things that I did when I was a young person. I didn't know then I was going to be a politician, didn't know I was going to run for governor. Tonight, though, he seemed to be, you know, up tight about it.

LOTHIAN: That's true and I did after he answered the question, I did shout at him then was this article just simply a lie? And, he ignored my question and picked another reporter who was standing in front of me.

Later, one of his people trying to clarify what he had said, said you know people like this do a lot of interviews over all these years and they do a lot of things in their life and it's difficult sometimes to say whether or not they said a particular thing in a particular interview. So, it seems like this is something that perhaps he didn't expect would grow to this level and now they're trying to figure out how to deal with it.

WOODRUFF: All right and the questions I guess will keep coming, at least tonight. We'll see about tomorrow.

LOTHIAN: That's right.

WOODRUFF: Dan Lothian thank you very much.

Coming up on NEWSNIGHT, new details about September 11, revealed through transcripts of emergency calls. We'll have details and we will talk with one police officer who survived in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: Connected to Iraq in many ways, two weeks from today the world will mark the two year anniversary of 9/11 what is sure to be a solemn, reflective event.

But today brought the immediate horror of that morning flooding back when the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey released transcripts of taped emergency calls that day, the "New York Times" had wanted them released.

Many of the families did not and reading through them it's not hard to see why, the story from CNN's Maria Hinojosa.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HINOJOSA (voice-over): For two years, Laurie Tjietjen has struggled to create a picture in her mind of how her brother, Port Authority Police Office Kenneth Tjietjen died on September 11.

LAURIE TJIETJEN, VICTIM'S SISTER: You have a thought in your head about what you think happened that day and, you know, in my case how my brother died that day and it's sort of something that you can live with, you can sleep at night with. And then, you have, you know I refer to it as my worst nightmare and these transcripts were beyond my worst nightmare.

HINOJOSA: The transcripts contain chilling and gory accounts of her brother's final moments.

TJIETJEN: The documents that they wrote were never meant for public eyes.

HINOJOSA: There are 2,000 pages of them, transcripts of 260 hours of the radio and telephone conversations between people like Kenneth Tjietjen, rescuers, and the 83 other Port Authority employees who did not survive.

"A male caller says: Something blew up at the trade center. A female gasps. A male says: Either a plane crashed into the trade center or a rocket hit. People are all over the place dead. Female: Really? Male: I'm going to be here. I just wanted to let you know I'm OK because you would have saw this on the news. You would have thought uh-oh."

There are also handwritten and typed notes of survivors that paint a vivid picture of the terrible things these people were seeing. Lieutenant Ed Gutch wrote: "I observed numerous individuals jumping from 1 WTC, striking the sidewalk, a telephone pole, and the overhead covering of VIP Drive."

GREG TREVOR, PORT AUTHORITY SPOKESMAN: We have always known in our hearts that these people were heroes to the very end on that morning. These transcripts prove that we were right.

HINOJOSA: The paper documents were released for a $500 fee, the result of a lawsuit by the "New York Times" which angered the victims' families and survivors like Officer David Lim.

OFFICER DAVID LIM, PORT AUTHORITY POLICE: Put yourself in that position, you know. If that was your husband out there, would you really want the world to hear him, you know, saying his last words to you or would you want that in a private hearing, you know, that the Port Authority would be more than happy to provide?

HINOJOSA: The Port Authority scrambled to get copies to family members like Laurie Tjietjen before they had to read them in the media. She hopes the public will not focus on the many disturbing accounts, police jargon, and the last messages out but rather the messages their loved ones gave their entire lives.

TJIETJEN: The only thing that this did for me and my family was take away the peace that we worked so hard to get for the past two years and, you know, especially with the anniversary coming up this is the second year and we should be celebrating their lives not rehashing their deaths.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HINOJOSA: These will be some very difficult days for many of these families, even those who say they don't want to see the transcripts will not be able to escape the media attention, all of this just two weeks before the second anniversary of the trade center attacks -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: Maria, I think all of us are riveted by what you're describing and by what people, what we'll be reading about tomorrow in the newspapers. But as you looked through this what is new in this material?

HINOJOSA: I think it's hard to say what's new. I mean, there's 2,000 pages of this, Judy. There are conversations between officers. There's confusion, in terms of where they should be going. There are problems in terms of communications. These things, we all knew.

There are stories of heroism as well. In fact, I have a stack here. This is just the people who are going to be nominated for heroes. These are survivors. But I think what's new is that this will bring up a lot of pain once again for the families, people who had thought they had moved just a little bit forward. And, again, they are going to be just put right back two years ago, unfortunately.

WOODRUFF: I read one transcript, a very touching transcript of a father, a police officer, saying goodbye to his son and saying, "Take care of mom, because I won't be home."

HINOJOSA: Oh, so hard. So, so hard.

WOODRUFF: Maria Hinojosa, thanks very much.

Well, we want to talk a little more about the release of the transcripts with the Port Authority police officer you just heard from in Maria's piece. David Lim is part of the explosives detector team. He was at the Trade Center command station when the attacks took place. He did survive, but his bomb-sniffing dog, Sirius, did not.

David Lim joins us now from New York.

This is difficult for you and, I assume, difficult for the families of all others you knew in the Port Authority police force who did not make it.

DAVID LIM, NEW YORK PORT AUTHORITY: Yes, it's very difficult, Judy.

I think I've said before that I think that it was probably a little more inappropriate that these transcripts were put out. I don't see any real purpose. I know what happened that day. Obviously, I don't need transcripts to remind me of that day.

But I think to put the families through this is very difficult. And for those who really did want to hear this or see this, the Port Authority was more than happy to have private hearings for these people. I think this could have been handled a little bit better.

WOODRUFF: In reading through this and hearing Maria Hinojosa describe it, graphic descriptions of people jumping, people falling to their deaths, conversations, people desperate for air. There was one police sergeant who described it as -- he said, this was like a biblical description of hell. Is that anything close to what you remember?

LIM: I would think that's a pretty good analogy.

Not ever being in hell, obviously, I think that's about the closest that any of us ever want to get to that kind of a situation. And his description was probably apropos for what was happening. Everybody, although it was a hellish-type of situation, as you will see in most of these transcripts, because I know because I heard it firsthand, obviously, that the Port Authority Police acted in a professional manner and managed to help rescue over 25,000 people, with the assistance of other agencies, of course.

But we were the first one in and we were the last ones out.

WOODRUFF: Some extraordinary, extraordinary heroes.

David Lim, it's now been, as we've said, almost two years. Do you think it gets any easier for you or for the family members of the others in the Port Authority who died?

LIM: Well, I can speak for myself, of course.

I think it gets a little easier. There are times, of course, when we get close to the anniversary, where I start thinking a little bit more about it. And I think it's a lot harder on those family members that you just spoke about that have to go through this. And, as Ms. Tietjen said, just when you think you are getting ahead a little bit, something like this comes back. And I don't really see how that helps.

Personally, on my level, I think I'm in a better place now than I was, obviously, two years ago. But it's going to be a while before I guess I am completely OK.

WOODRUFF: Does it make you any more angry at the people who were behind this? Or do you think it's impossible to be any more outraged at what they did?

LIM: I don't think you can be any more angry. I think that our country did the right thing by going into Afghanistan, going after the people that were responsible for this.

I think that they're doing the best that they can. I mean, part of the problems that we had here is that feeling of the helplessness for a police officer facing an enemy we can't see. That was very frustrating, of course. But I know our men and women overseas did the right thing and did the job, finished the job for us. And we'll always appreciate that.

WOODRUFF: Well, David Lim, I know Americans appreciate what you and the other police and fire workers did on that awful day. Thank you very much, David Lim, with the New York Port Authority police force. We appreciate your talking to us. Thank you.

As NEWSNIGHT continues: the March On Washington 40 years ago today. Jeff Greenfield looks at its meaning and its impact in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: In "The New York Times" 40 years ago tomorrow, one of the reports said this: "The civil rights demonstration that swept more than 200,000 people through the capital today appeared to have left much of Congress untouched, physically, emotionally and politically."

But that resistance to change wasn't to last. The March On Washington not only changed people's lives, but it also helped to redraw the political landscape of the next 40 years.

Some thoughts from CNN's Jeff Greenfield.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARTIN LUTHER KING JR., CIVIL RIGHTS LEADER: I have a dream.

JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SR. ANALYST (voice-over): They are four of the most memorable words in recent history. For 40 years, they have served to define that moment that is now an official element of national pride.

(on camera): But the endless focus on that bit of splendid rhetoric should not obscure the bigger meaning of that march. It was a political event that helped produce some major political consequences, not all of them intended.

(voice-over): First, while that march is celebrated today, it was a controversial event 40 years ago. The fear of violence was so great that the Kennedy administration tried to discourage it. As it turned out, the March On Washington was a high watermark for postwar American liberalism.

Organized labor, under fire from civil rights group for keeping many unions segregated, threw money and manpower behind the march, one reason why the goal was broadened from simply civil rights to a march for jobs and freedom. The weather was good. And the crowd was remarkably upbeat.

As a young journalist covering that march, I still remember the sheer good-natured optimism. And King's speech was similarly optimistic and inclusive. The revolutionary line which he used was from the American Revolution, literally. Listen.

KING: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

GREENFIELD: By quoting the Declaration of Independence, King was saying that the civil rights movement was a challenge to America to be what it said it was. He was embracing the ideal, not scorning it as an empty promise, but asking that that promise be kept.

Within a year, the first major civil rights act, the Public Accommodations Act of 1964, was law. That same year, Republicans, who had helped passed that law through the Congress, nominated Barry Goldwater as their presidential candidate. He had opposed that law. And the political results were predictable.

Black Americans moved solidly into the Democratic camp, while Southern whites began to defect. South Carolina Senator Strom Thurmond became the first major Democrat to bolt to the Republican Party. Within a few years, Alabama Governor George Wallace would win five Southern states as a third-party presidential candidate, further pulling whites away from the Democratic Party

And the nonviolent, inclusive message of King would be challenged by more militant black voices, Malcolm X, Stokely Carmichael, H. Rap Brown.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will use that violence to rid ourselves of oppression, if necessary.

GREENFIELD: The political consequences are dramatic. The once solidly Democratic South is now heavily Republican. In the last 30 years, only Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton have won any electoral votes in the South for the Democrats. And in the House and Senate, the once overwhelmingly Democratic Southern delegations are now mostly Republican.

(on camera): Of course, politics is only one way of measuring the impact of an event. The real sea change is what happened in a country where segregation, official and otherwise, was once a way of life. Measured by a dozen different standards, open doors, seats at the table where only white faces were seen, a national consensus that King's fight was a matter of simple justice, measured by those standards, we did overcome.

Jeff Greenfield, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: And a postscript. We would like to thank Intellectual Properties Management as the manager of the King estate for use of portions of the "I have a dream" speech. The King family asks that we remind viewers to further Dr. King's legacy by making community service a way of life. They encourage you to visit the King Center's Web site -- it's www.TheKingCenter.org -- to find a volunteer opportunity in your neighborhood.

Well, not far from the Baptist church where Dr. King once preached, a rally took place today. More than 1,000 people jammed the plaza of the Alabama judicial building in Montgomery, Alabama. They came to voice their support for Chief Justice Roy Moore and the now- hidden Ten Commandments monument. As for the monument itself, the governor of Mississippi has offered to put it on display in his state capital.

And at Baylor University in Waco, Texas, tonight, a memorial service for Patrick Dennehy, the murdered basketball player. This is the first such service to be held at the university. Most of the students were away for the summer when Patrick Dennehy was killed.

NEWSNIGHT continues in a moment with the story of "Thirteen," a new movie, and the teenager who wrote and stars in it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: Nikki Reed is a precocious teenager in more ways than one. She's a writer and she's the star of the new film "Thirteen," even though she is not yet old enough to drive. And what she depicts in the movie is a world where teenaged girls are growing up and going astray at warp speed, something drawn from her own experience.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THIRTEEN")

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS: For the project, I'm doing J.Lo. What about you?

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS: I am doing Usher.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS: I have to go to the bathroom really quick.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS: Cute shirt.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS: Thanks.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS: Cute top.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS: Call me after school. We can go shopping on Melrose.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WOODRUFF: Nikki Reed joins us now from Los Angeles.

And, Nikki Reed, I have not seen the movie yet. I hope to see it very soon, but I am told that it is going -- that it will shock some of the parents and maybe even some of the teenagers who see it. Is that what you intended?

NIKKI REED, ACTRESS/WRITER: I had no intentions, but everything that's been happening has been great so far. And it definitely will shock some parents and some teenagers. And different reactions are great.

WOODRUFF: How much of this movie is true, is based on either what you saw or what you know or what you yourself experienced?

REED: I did go through a lot of the same things that Tracy went through, but I don't want to call the film autobiographical, because a lot of the stuff that went into it came from what was going on around me. So it was still my life, but not exactly things that were happening to me personally. WOODRUFF: The movie really focuses on a girl and on the relationship between girls primarily.

REED: Yes, the jealousy, the competition between girls.

WOODRUFF: And why -- can you help parents who are watching understand why maybe it's so much harder for girls of that age, your age, than maybe it is for boys?

REED: I'm not a guy, so I don't really understand their mentality.

But I do have an older brother who's only one year older than me, 16. And I think, at this age, girls are really insecure, really self- conscience, really in their own head, always overthinking things, whereas guys do have a lot going on, but in different ways.

Girls are more internal, I think. Guys are more external. I really don't know what to say about that. But both genders have a hard time in school. It's not any easier for one or the other, I don't think.

WOODRUFF: Now, you helped -- you wrote this with -- was it is your father's former girlfriend. Is that right?

REED: Yes.

WOODRUFF: And you did it in a very short time.

REED: Six days. Six days, we wrote the film. I know.

WOODRUFF: It's amazing.

Let me ask you without, again, giving away more of the film, what do you say to parents who are going to go see this film in terms of what they might do to keep this from happening from their own children?

REED: This isn't really a film that parents are going to come see and learn something about parenting and learn what to do, what's right and what's wrong.

The only advice I can give is, come see the film open-minded and don't want the film and want to cling to your kid even more. I hope that kids and parents see the film together and parents learn to be OK and understand the space that kids need at this age, trying to find themselves, trying to be more independent, trying to grow up, go through this transition, instead of hold on to them even tighter after seeing it.

WOODRUFF: In other words, you're saying parents need to let go more?

REED: Some do and some need to hold on tighter. Some do need to let go more, yes. WOODRUFF: And how does -- as the mother of a teenager, I guess I'm relating to what you're saying and wondering how do you know when to hold on tight and how do you know when to let go more.

REED: You don't. There are no right or wrong answers. It's -- I think it's just as hard for parents as it is for kids.

I don't know what to tell you. I really have no advice to give you and tell you when is the right time, except just to observe and don't be in denial, just be open to hearing whatever your kid does or doesn't have to say.

WOODRUFF: More movies in your future?

REED: Hopefully. Hopefully.

WOODRUFF: All right, Nikki Reed, who co-wrote and was one of the stars of the movie just out, "Thirteen" -- Nikki Reed, thanks very much for talking with us tonight.

REED: Thank you, Judy.

WOODRUFF: We appreciate it.

Still ahead on NEWSNIGHT: the last Harley piece of day, a trip around America with hog lovers in still life.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: It's a little strange to think of that ultimate symbol of youthful rebellion, the Harley, as being old enough for Willard Scott to celebrate. But Harley-Davidson is turning 100. And the icon has matured along the way.

When you think of "Easy Rider," keep in mind that Peter Fonda these days is almost eligible for Social Security. Harley is now for all ages, all incomes, and all colors. And Harley fanatics are now two-wheeling their way into Milwaukee for the centennial party.

Photographer Peter Turnley worked for the company over the past year, capturing images of Harley lovers the world over.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PETER TURNLEY, PHOTOJOURNALIST: I had never witnessed before what it looks like to see a large group of motorcyclists that really know what they are doing and that take it seriously and ride in formation. And it was breathtaking. It was like a moving ballet to photograph.

This year of exposure to the world of Harley-Davidson has been absolutely one of the most amazing experiences of my lifetime. I would never have known that the world of Harley-Davidson motorcycling could be full of so many dimensions of life that go beyond simply motorcycles.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I first got this Harley, I cried, because it was almost a religious experience for me.

TURNLEY: It was a great discovery to witness people riding motorcycles, not only from all over the world, but from all different ethnic backgrounds, racial backgrounds, people of different social class, different age group.

Each motorcycle and each individual represented really a notion of individuality. Everyone puts their own special touch on their motorcycle, on the clothes they wear, on their presence. It's a very -- quite frankly, a very sensual, even sexy world. It's a world of exposure to incredibly majestic and vast landscapes, a world of being outdoors, of being exposed to the elements, and, at the same time, sharing a passion with other people. That passion seems to go beyond motorcycling.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's just a freedom to get out there and do it. I tell people, you only live once, but, if you do it right, once is enough.

TURNLEY: One of my favorite stories during this year was when I encountered a rider from Texas, and I asked him why he liked riding a Harley-Davidson. And he said: I guess bikers are probably the only people in the world that understand why dogs put their head out the window when a car's moving.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's a great way to relax at the end of the day. It's a wonderful way to go through a midlife crisis.

TURNLEY: Riding a Harley-Davidson offers a lot of people a chance to dream, a chance to be someone they want to be, to live life in a way that they want to live life.

Maybe, in the end, one of the most appealing aspects of this whole experience was to see so many people doing what they looked like they really enjoyed doing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: Happy 100, Harley-Davidson.

That's it for NEWSNIGHT. I'm Judy Woodruff. Thanks for joining us.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





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