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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown

True Meaning of Labor Day; Investigation Into Bombing in Najaf Continues; Israel Declares All-Out War on Hamas

Aired September 01, 2003 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, I'm Daryn Kagan. Aaron is off tonight.
A good deal of our program tonight is devoted to the true meaning of Labor Day. For many that means recognizing the contributions of the country's workforce. That, of course, was the original meaning of Labor Day.

For a lot of people it's more about beaches and traffic and sales at the mall and, for the staff here at NEWSNIGHT it's a chance to look at what Labor Day has always been the dividing line between summer and a lot of things yet to come.

We will begin, as always though, with the whip, starting off with developments in Baghdad and CNN's Rym Brahimi, Rym our first headline of the night please.

RYM BRAHIMI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the plot thickens here in Iraq, Daryn. The investigation for Iraq's deadliest attack since the end of the war continues now with some assistance but one of the potential suspects has apparently said it's not them. You'll hear more about that in a few minutes.

KAGAN: Look forward to that.

We move on to Gaza and the latest shot in the war between Israel and Hamas. Our Matthew Chance is on the videophone and has a headline from Gaza -- Matthew.

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via videophone): Daryn, thank you, and Israeli has upped its stakes in its battle with the Palestinian militants declaring itself in a state of all out war with the militant group Hamas that as it carries out more deadly strikes against the militant group on the streets of Gaza. We'll have all the details in a moment.

KAGAN: And next we'll move on to Washington and CNN's David Ensor on the man who spied for a friendly country but got life in prison anyway, David your headline please.

DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Daryn, tomorrow his lawyers will argue that Jonathan Pollard who spied for Israel should not have a life sentence that his sentence should be reconsidered. After all he didn't spy for an enemy like the Soviets at the time but for a friendly country; however, government lawyers will argue that treason is treason and the last time this came up the CIA director threatened to resign if the sentence was reduced.

KAGAN: We want to hear more about that, we will.

Finally, we'll head out to Los Angeles, that's where we find our Frank Buckley covering the recall and a headline from there from southern California -- Frank.

FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Daryn, the first debate of the recall race is just a couple of days away but Arnold Schwarzenegger won't be among the debaters and today one of his fellow Republicans tried to make that an issue saying it was a matter of respect for the voters and the process for Schwarzenegger to show up.

KAGAN: I hear Arnold actually answered some questions today. We'll be looking forward to hear what some of those answers are. Well, we'll be back with all of you in just a minute.

Also coming up tonight a look at what is coming up this year and beyond with the presidential race gearing up and a Democratic frontrunner emerging. A political discussion with "Time" magazine's Rick Stengel.

Also tonight, the business of books, what's coming out in the weeks ahead? Steve Wasserman of the "L.A. Times" is here with a reading list for us.

And, after a slower than normal summer, where is Hollywood heading this fall? Film critic Jodie Canter (ph) has a sneak preview of the good, the bad, and the real Thanksgiving turkeys ahead.

All that is in the hour ahead, first let's get the latest from Baghdad. There are beginnings of a new Iraqi government, also though an unwelcome reminder of the old one, here again CNN's Rym Brahimi.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRAHIMI (voice-over): Iraq's former president apparently speaks out again this time to deny any responsibility for the most deadly attack in post-war Iraq. In another audio tape broadcast by an Arabic satellite channel a voice purporting to be that of Saddam Hussein calls on Iraqis not to believe what they hear from the occupying invaders with regard to Friday's bomb in Najaf.

SADDAM HUSSEIN (through translator): They hasten to accuse us before they have any proof. Do they do this to shift the attention from those really responsible for this?

BRAHIMI: Iraqis shocked by the violent attack at the most holy site for Shiite Muslims in which at least 83 people died, including a religious and political leader, are divided between those who believe foreign groups from elsewhere in the region are responsible for it and those who think their former president instigated it. But most are waiting for the investigation to turn up the culprits, an investigation in which the FBI will now participate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): The tape has no value. If he says he's innocent that's not necessarily so. But if they catch the people who did the attack it will show if he's innocent or not.

BRAHIMI: The attack triggered calls for revenge by many Iraqi Shiites and called by some prominent religious leaders not to respond with more blood leaving to fear among many Iraqis that the country may be on the brink of civil war.

This comes as the Iraqi Governing Council announced the much delayed appointment of a new cabinet the first since the U.S.-led war toppled Saddam Hussein's regime.

The 25 cabinet ministers reflect the exact ethnic and religious breakdown of the 25 member governing body. All are approved by the U.S. Administrator in Iraq Paul Bremer and while many Iraqis say they're not familiar with the new ministers, some are willing to give the new cabinet a chance.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): If they take us toward democracy and freedom and provide the services then we'll support it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BRAHIMI: Well, the main thing that Iraqis really want from their cabinet, Daryn, is security. Coalition authorities say the Iraqi police will now answer to Iraqi ministers but they also say that coalition troops will safeguard this country providing extra firepower when needed.

It seems to be an indication basically that the ultimate decision making, or at least much of the ultimate decision making, still remains in the hands of the coalition authority -- Daryn.

KAGAN: And so, Rym, on a day-to-day basis what kind of power, what will this 25-member cabinet actually handle? What will it do?

BRAHIMI: Well that's going to be exactly what a lot of Iraqis are waiting to see how much power those ministers will really have. There are, of course, important ministries such as oil, a new ministry for water resources, another new ministry for human rights and environment and it's going to be a bit of a -- it's going to be interesting to see how that plays out with the advisers from the coalition that are there to advise the various ministers in the cabinet.

But, of course, there are a lot of questions as to how much those ministers will really be able to do to not only take over the responsibilities from the coalition authorities but really deliver on the ground seeing as they're also each from very different parties and political deviances in the country -- Daryn.

KAGAN: And you will be watching it from Baghdad. Rym Brahimi, thank you for that report.

We move on now to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Tonight it resembles an all out war between Israel and Hamas. The Israeli military launched another attack today. It was the sixth one in two weeks targeting Hamas leaders and their lieutenants, helicopters and missiles doing what Israel says the Palestinian Authority will not.

For its part, though, the Palestinian Authority says that continuing missile attacks make that job, reigning in the militants, even harder to do, the report from Matthew Chance.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHANCE (voice-over): On the crowded streets of Gaza, bloodshed and chaos as Israel again unleashes its firepower. Rescue workers struggle through the mayhem pulling casualties from the flaming wreckage. The car carrying Hamas militants was struck by rockets from a helicopter gunship.

"When we arrived at the scene the car was burning and there was a man inside alive" says this rescue worker. He says he burned his own hand trying to put him out.

At least one Hamas activist has been confirmed dead brining to 11 the number of militants killed in this way in less than two weeks. For those here this is a policy of assassination. Israel says its strikes are carefully targeted.

The scene at the al-Shifa Hospital one of pandemonium as doctors treated at least 25 injured. Most were bystanders with no connection with militant groups. This is the risk that striking from the air in one of the most densely populated areas on earth.

But, in Israel, the government of Ariel Sharon appears to be stepping up its campaign against Hamas. In a statement the government has declared an all out war against the militant group saying it will continue to strike at its leaders.

Operations against what it calls the focus of terror in the West Bank are to be increased and all diplomatic contacts with the Palestinian Authority frozen until the PA, in the words of Israel, deals with the infrastructure of terror. It is Israel's new hard line that may bring more strikes like this on militants it regards as the obstacles to peace.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHANCE: Well, Daryn, Israel says it has no choice but to act in this way against the militants. The Palestinian Authority, it says, has simply failed to do what it was supposed to do, which is to confront militants head on. But I can tell you that with each strike on the streets of Gaza the voices of anger are raised and the calls by the militants for revenge against Israel grow louder -- Daryn.

KAGAN: And, Matthew, one of the problems seems to be the power struggle going on within the Palestinian movement. I understand the Egyptians got involved on Sunday and held talks between Hamas leaders and other Palestinian leaders. Were those effective at all?

CHANCE: Well, the effort of course is by the Palestinian Authority in conjunction with the Egyptians to try and get the militant groups to reinstate their cease-fire, which they abandoned a couple of weeks ago formally after Israel killed one of the founding members of the Hamas militant group, Ismail Abu Shanab.

But that was always going to be very difficult and in this poisonous environment Nobody here on the streets of Gaza is talking about it as being a real possibility.

KAGAN: Matthew Chance in Gaza. Matthew, thank you.

Tomorrow there will be a hearing in Washington that will be very closely watched in Israel because it concerns the case of Jonathan Pollard. Pollard is the American convicted of spying for Israel and the hearing could determine whether he can appeal his life sentence, more now from David Ensor.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ENSOR (voice-over): Jonathan Pollard has now served nearly 18 years of a life sentence for spying against the United States on behalf of a friendly nation, Israel.

JOSEPH DIGENOVA, U.S. ATTORNEY: Mr. Pollard, I believe, will not see the light of day.

ENSOR: The prosecutor welcomed the life sentence imposed after then Defense Secretary Caspar Weinberger told the court it was difficult to conceive of greater damage to national security but Pollard's lawyers and supporters argue the punishment far exceeds the crime.

REP. ANTHONY WEINER (D), NEW YORK: No doubt about it he should not have passed those documents to our ally Israel but it is certainly not something that rose to the level that Caspar Weinberger alleged it did.

ENSOR: U.S. intelligence officials, though, argue Pollard is a spy whose sentence should not be reconsidered.

BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: With respect to Mr. Pollard I have agreed to review this matter seriously.

ENSOR: Five years ago when then Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu convinced President Clinton to consider a pardon, U.S. officials say CIA Director George Tenet privately told Mr. Clinton he would have to resign if Pollard's sentence was changed. Richard Haver was a naval intelligence officer who worked on the case.

RICHARD HAVER, FORMER U.S. INTELLIGENCE OFFICIAL: Pollard is a traitor to the United States. He's also, as far as I'm concerned, would have compromised the Israelis in a heartbeat too if it had struck him as something that he wanted to do because that was -- that's the history of Pollard when you look at it. He's now reinvented himself as a great Jewish patriot and tried to present that to the people.

ENSOR: U.S. intelligence and law enforcement officials say there are indications that top secret satellite and signals intelligence Pollard gave to Israel ended up in the hands of the Soviet Union. Pollard's motive, they say, was money pure and simple. There is evidence, they say, that Pollard also approached Pakistan, South Africa, and others offering classified materials for sale.

WEINER: There has never been anywhere in the court documents or anywhere else the allegation that he spied for anyone else but this is what Jonathan Pollard is up against. He's sitting in a jail cell in a maximum security cell while members of the intelligence community, some of which are only tangentially connected to this, are essentially free to say whatever they want.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ENSOR: Some U.S. intelligence officials say if Israel was ever willing to detail for the U.S. all the documents and intelligence that Pollard stole then officials here might feel differently about letting him go -- Daryn.

KAGAN: And, David, I understand there are some secret documents at issue here that his former -- Pollard's former attorneys had a look at. These new attorneys want to see it but the government attorneys say that that's a no go.

ENSOR: Well, that's right. Caspar Weinberger, the then defense secretary, wrote an analysis of what the damage was to U.S. national security and, until now, there's never been a chance for the defenders of Jonathan Pollard to see that document and deal with it and answer it in court. They want a chance to do that.

KAGAN: And, tomorrow is a procedural matter. Nothing is going to happen tomorrow like he'll be turned over to Israel?

ENSOR: No. That is, of course, what he wants. He wants to be freed for time served and he wants to go to Israel where he says his heart belongs, where his real country is in his belief.

KAGAN: David Ensor in Washington, thank you. You'll be tracking that story for us tomorrow I know.

Also tomorrow night here on NEWSNIGHT we want to tell you that we'll have the attorneys for Jonathan Pollard, Elliott Lauer (ph) and Jacques Semonim (ph) will be right here with Aaron.

Still ahead on this Labor Day edition of NEWSNIGHT we're going to have the latest developments in the California recall and get the perspective of populist Jim Hightower on the story.

And later, the TV dinner turns 50, a look back at how it changed the way we eat.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Just in case you're counting there are only 36 days to go until California's recall election. Candidate Arnold Schwarzenegger made an appearance today at the state fair in Sacramento.

Here's a new twist, he actually took some questions today. With some of those answers here's CNN's Frank Buckley.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BUCKLEY (voice-over): As the movie star candidate Arnold Schwarzenegger reveled in the love of his fans and supporters at the state fair, a fellow Republican with far less stage presence, Peter Ueberroth, took Schwarzenegger to task for refusing to appear on stage in the first debate of the campaign scheduled for Wednesday.

PETER UEBERROTH (R), GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: Arnold is a great communicator. Come on and tell the voters why you should be governor.

BUCKLEY: But, Schwarzenegger made it clear he would debate only once and not this Wednesday.

ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER (R), GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: I'm looking forward to the debate. It's going to be great with the California broadcasters, yes. It's going to be a fantastic debate.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you not going to do any of the other debates sir?

SCHWARZENEGGER: We are going to do one great debate and bring out all the different issues, OK.

BUCKLEY: Aides insist the actor does not fear debates and that the decision to do only one struck a balance in a compressed campaign but Ueberroth implied that missing this one was disrespectful.

UEBERROTH: Being part of these debates shows respect to the voters so I hope he'll reconsider. I hope he'll be there Wednesday night.

BUCKLEY: Meanwhile, the two major Democrats in the race, Governor Gray Davis who is trying to keep his job, and Lieutenant Governor Cruz Bustamante whose campaign is also built on the idea that Davis should keep his job but if he doesn't you should vote for me, courted the crucial labor vote. Governor Davis sounding one of his campaign's major themes that he gets it.

GOV. GRAY DAVIS (D), CALIFORNIA: I know many Californians are angry and, trust me this recall is a humbling experience. I would not wish it on my worst enemy.

BUCKLEY: Bustamante, leading the most recent "L.A. Times" poll among all of the would-be replacements, including Schwarzenegger, warned the muscle man he was ready to rumble.

LT. GOV. CRUZ BUSTAMANTE (D), GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: We will take it to them and if Arnold thinks that he's going to get a pass, I mean.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BUCKLEY: Labor Day marks the traditional beginning or restart of fall campaigns when voters begin to pay closer attention and the campaigns will begin to act accordingly.

We're expecting Gray Davis to come up with his first TV ads on Wednesday. The Ueberroth campaign also coming up later this week or early next week on TV and Arnold Schwarzenegger will be on the road more, according to his aides. They say he will be on the stump beginning Wednesday through the weekend but, again Daryn, he will not appear in the debate on Wednesday.

KAGAN: Those Bustamante biceps were pretty impressive there in your piece Frank.

BUCKLEY: Got his own muscles.

KAGAN: Yes. I have another date to throw out to you September 22nd the deadline for voters to register for this race in California, what is each party doing to get out that effort?

BUCKLEY: Well, they're all racing to try to get their turnout because turnout is so crucial in this election but the real story behind the turnout is what exactly is going to happen with the elections officials once they get all of those registrations in?

Will they be able to turn around and get the absentee ballots out in time? Will they be able to get enough poll workers in place? Will they have enough polling places? Will the machines work once the people get there?

Some of the counties, including L.A. County, will be using those old punch card machines so a whole bunch of questions related to voter registration and how quickly the elections officials will be able to turn around those voter cards once they come in.

KAGAN: Which is why you and our other California political correspondents will be so busy until October 7, Frank thanks for that.

BUCKLEY: Appears so.

KAGAN: Well, Jim Hightower, you've heard of him perhaps. His Web site bills him as America's number one populist who better to ask California's popular uprising? I had a chance to talk with Hightower recently. I think you'll also hear that he is a proud contrarian and he's got issues with the recall, not to mention business as usual when it comes to many things. Let's listen in.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: The California recall, I get the feeling that this is a story that could have been written by Jim Hightower, that this is right out of your book.

JIM HIGHTOWER, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You know, it's hard to write satire these days.

KAGAN: That is.

HIGHTOWER: Because you can take it right off the TV cameras. I don't know if it's the slow summer movie season or what but imagine that you're an Iraqi and you're looking at this California election or what Tom DeLay is doing in Texas with the reapportionment thing and you're thinking these people are going to bring democracy to us?

KAGAN: But really the spirit of the California recall, this really does sound like something that you would support. These are people are rising up and taking back their state government. You don't think it's a good idea?

HIGHTOWER: Well, it's not exactly that. When you say the people there was no groundswell for this to happen. A guy named Darrell Issa, a gabillionaire (ph) put out $2.5 million of his own money to try to make this happen because he thought he was going to get to run and win.

But then Arnold stepped in and so Darrell ended up crying at his own press conference and saying he wasn't going to get to be a part of the show. But I'm in favor of initiative referendum even recalls but the problem is that money has distorted this process just as it's distorting our general election process.

KAGAN: What about Al Gore's idea for this idea of having a liberal television network or at least some kind of talk radio network, getting something together where there would be liberal talk show hosts?

HIGHTOWER: Well, you know, the truth is we have a lot of voices already out there that, you know, don't get covered much. I mean I've been on radio myself for more than ten years with radio commentaries and even radio talk shows.

The problem is not progressives being able to do it but the fact that the radio particularly, well television too, but radio in particular is owned by conglomerates that do not want a progressive and certainly a populist voice on, a voice that would challenge, for example, media conglomeration by those very corporations. So, it's the ownership structure of the media these days that is preventing the progressive voice from being on.

KAGAN: But, Jim, just for a moment, let's just step back for a moment.

HIGHTOWER: OK.

KAGAN: And let's just look at conservatives. Whether you agree with conservatives or not, one thing conservatives do know how to do they know how to be angry and they know how to do that better than liberals do.

HIGHTOWER: Well, I don't know, you know. I consider myself a fairly angry fellow in my deep moments but, you know, it's not all about anger. It is also about humor. It's also about optimism, about what American can be.

It's also about tapping into the great strength of the people, which in this new book that I've written that's what it's about that beneath the media radar, beneath the sight of the political establishment there's wonderful progressive political activity of people out there fighting for living wages, battling against the Wal- Mart behemoth bulling its way into our neighborhoods, issue after issue and they're winning.

So, there are great stories to tell and I think that that also makes good television and people -- or radio and people are looking for that kind of positive message, uplifting.

KAGAN: I think one thing is interesting in your book because you're not only looking at the fat cats, at the corporate big wigs, but you're also calling on your readers and you're basically saying you know what get off your you-know-what and get involved and make changes. Just don't sit there and whine about it.

HIGHTOWER: I hate the whining.

KAGAN: Yes.

HIGHTOWER: You know and I go to just about any speech or any meeting and there will be at least one person that will go into this long droning whine about it and then it ends up, and I'll tell you back in the 1960s what it was like and you know about that point I interrupt old Wheezer (ph) and say, you know, get real.

This country is about, you know, real fighters and brawlers from the founders themselves to the abolitionists and suffragettes and the civil rights movement and the labor movement. People have fought hard, bled, died, to make it possible for us to have even the democratic possibility.

KAGAN: And you're telling folks to get up and take action. The book is "Thieves in High Places, They've Stolen our Country and it's Time to Take it Back." Thanks for taking just a few minutes to be with us Jim Hightower, appreciate it.

HIGHTOWER: Thank you, Daryn, great to be here.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: The man does not hold back.

Coming up on NEWSNIGHT, more of our fall preview for you. Other political stories are out there, other political candidates. We will talk with Rick Stengel of "Time" magazine.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: A question for you, are you the type who spends all summer at the beach obsessing over who's better at foreign policy, Kerry or Dean? Well, if so you're definitely in the minority.

For most Americans summer is a vacation away from work, school, and especially politics but vacation is over, here now CNN's Jeff Greenfield.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SR. ANALYST (voice-over): With the end of Labor Day, autumn is upon us whatever the calendar says, time for new fashions, new prime time TV programs.

(on camera): And, this fall it's the political world that's filled with some intriguing questions. We begin, of course, in California where an election in five weeks' time will tell us whether Governor Gray Davis will lose his job and, if so, who will replace him.

Key questions here will Arnold Schwarzenegger debate? Will Republicans persuade conservative State Senator Tom McClintock to drop out and clear the field? Will Democrats decide that Governor Davis can't be saved and throw all their resources behind Lieutenant Governor Cruz Bustamante? And, oh yes, will the federal courts delay the election?

On the Democratic primary front there is one overarching question, is Howard Dean a long distance runner? By every measure so far, crowd size, money raised, poll standings, the former Vermont governor has been the story. There's even talk that Dean may decline public financing and free himself from campaign spending limits the way Governor George W. Bush did four years ago.

So far, Dean has left his major rivals in his wake. Senator John Kerry, once the odds on favorite in New Hampshire trails badly now. Two other Senators, North Carolina's John Edwards and Florida's Bob Graham have their Senate seats up next year. They must decide, not legally but politically, whether to walk away from those Senate seats or throw in their presidential cards.

Connecticut Senator Joseph Lieberman, whose name recognition gave him strong poll numbers earlier, has generated little heat. Congressman Richard Gephardt badly needs a formal AFL-CIO endorsement next month to jump-start his campaign. We'll also learn this fall whether somebody else, General Wesley Clark, Senator Hillary Clinton, Al Gore, will be a late entry into the field.

But each of Dean's rivals has the same goal, to become the candidate of major elements of the Democratic base, labor, minorities, elected officials, who might not find Dean acceptable. The question is, which of them, if any, becomes the un-Dean?

And then, events this fall season could shape the political terrain beyond the control of any spin doctor. Will Iraq become more or less stable? Will the Middle East be transformed? Or will new doubts about the administration's policy emerge?

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Free and sovereign Palestinian state.

GREENFIELD: And, finally, the voters' view of domestic economy, almost always a decisive campaign issue, will take firm shape some time before year's end. (on camera): There's something of a tradition at this point in the political season. The cottage industry of pols and journalists find its collective heartbeat racing, while the vast majority are Americans are saying, not yet, not yet. But this fall, it might actually be worthwhile to start paying attention.

Jeff Greenfield, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: Well, we have started paying attention.

With us now, a member of that cottage industry that Jeff was talking about. Rick Stengel is the national editor of "TIME" magazine. And he is with us here tonight.

Good to have you with us laboring on Labor Day, putting you to work.

RICHARD STENGEL, "TIME": Yes, exactly. Happy Labor Day to you.

KAGAN: Well, thank you so much.

As we look forward to this fall political season, let's look at the main course, the big nugget. And that is the California recall election. How do you think that one's going to play out?

STENGEL: It's kind of questionable. I mean, Arnie obviously has the most name recognition among the Republicans. But he has a lot of competition.

Cruz Bustamante is kind of the only girl at the dance for Democrats. So if people to have a Democrat in office, they vote for Bustamante.

KAGAN: Gray Davis might differ with you on that.

STENGEL: Well, yes.

But they're both saying, vote no on question one and for Cruz on question two, which is smart.

KAGAN: Well, meanwhile, what that has done is kind of sucked all the power and the spotlight away from the Democratic presidential candidates. "USA Today" had a very interesting poll, asking two- thirds of the people they polled, could you even name a single person running for the Democratic nomination for president? And two-thirds of them couldn't come up with a single name.

STENGEL: And one-third said Al Gore.

(CROSSTALK)

STENGEL: But that isn't that strange, really.

People are not paying attention. Most of these guys running for president, with the exception of the man who ran for vice president last time, Joe Lieberman, people don't know who they are. And they won't know who they are for months and months, really until the New Hampshire primary and the Iowa caucuses come 'round the bend.

KAGAN: People who are kind of getting on the buzz, they're starting to learn about Dr. Howard Dean, former governor of Vermont.

STENGEL: Right.

It's rough for the other Democrats, because Howard Dean is sucking all the air out of the room. He's both a vessel for discontent of people who don't like Bush and didn't like the war in Iraq. And because he was against it, he speaks very clearly and very simply. All the others kind of are mealymouthed about things. And so Dean really has risen to the top.

KAGAN: Well, what about the man getting so much attention by not announcing, Wesley Clark? What is he waiting for?

STENGEL: Well, it's funny.

A lot people are saying now, it's Howard and who else? And some people are looking for a new knight in shining armor to come riding in.

(CROSSTALK)

KAGAN: General.

STENGEL: A general, exactly, and on his white horse.

And, in fact, the thing is, because he has those military credentials, he was also against the war in Iraq, he has something that Dean doesn't have, which is that military background. And it nullifies John Kerry's military background. So he's appealing to a lot of people. But it is kind of late.

KAGAN: But then also buzzing out there over the last week, Hillary Clinton, saying she is going to jump in, in 2004, instead of waiting until 2008.

(CROSSTALK)

STENGEL: People are going to be saying Hillary Clinton until the day before the election.

So she's given a pretty Shermanesque statement that she's not going to run. This is not her time. She's a new first-term senator. I think this is just wishful thinking on a lot of people's parts.

KAGAN: Meanwhile -- and we heard Jeff talk about this a little bit in his piece -- campaign finance reform, we heard so much about this, especially from John McCain. Where has this gone? What does it mean? Does it mean anything?

STENGEL: Yes. It's the law of unintended consequences, because, with Bush opting out from getting federal matching funds, the Democrats look at this and say, how can we really compete if we abide by the federal matching grant?

What happens then is, they have no money from the end of the primaries until the conventions in the summer. And that is when Bush will just blast them. So they have to say, Howard Dean's thinking: Look, I've already raised $15 million. I've already raised it from 100,000 people. That's twice as many people who contributed to Al Gore last time around.

And he's thinking: If I really am going to compete against George Bush and I get the nomination, I have to opt out. And that is the death knell really to campaign finance reform, because when both candidates opt out, what's the law?

(CROSSTALK)

KAGAN: ... follows the rules, then a rule doesn't really mean anything.

Meanwhile, President Bush running around, making a lot of appearances, raising a lot of money, a lot of money, starting to talk economy. But then there's still the war out there.

(CROSSTALK)

STENGEL: Right.

The plan was, after the war in Iraq, he was going to turn swords into plowshares and talk about the domestic economy. The problem is, the war in Iraq is not over. It's still going on. But he still has to address domestic issues. He's been talking about jobs this past week. He might have a double whammy, which is, if the war doesn't go well and the economy doesn't improve, that would be a difficult situation.

KAGAN: Very good. Rick Stengel, "TIME" magazine, appreciate your time. And, once again, thanks again for coming in on Labor Day. It will be fascinating to watch, not just fall, but as 2004 kicks off as well.

Still to come on NEWSNIGHT, our fall preview continues. We're going to talk with Steve Wasserman. He's of "The L.A. Times." He's going to talk about what books will be hot this fall, joining us from Los Angeles.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Well, just in case you think you have a huge pile waiting for you on your desk, consider our next guest.

Steve Wasserman is the editor of "Los Angeles Times Book Review." He gets an estimated 60,000 books each year. Fortunately, he's found a few out of that mass that he thinks are worth reading this fall. He joins us now from Los Angeles.

Good evening. Thanks for being with us.

STEVE WASSERMAN, "LOS ANGELES TIMES BOOK REVIEW": It's always a pleasure, Daryn. Good to be here.

KAGAN: I want to treat this like I ran into you in the bookstore and I'm just going to bug you for the book that I need to get. And we're going to start here with -- since it's Labor Day, we are going to start with a book that was written about a doctor who is doing some incredible work with AIDS patients, "Mountains Beyond Mountains." What's that one about?

WASSERMAN: Well, this is a book by Tracy Kidder, whose book "Soul of a New Machine" many of the viewers may recall. It was greeted with great ecstasy.

And he's sort of a writer's writer. The book went on to win numerous prizes. It was a best-seller about the building of a computer, if I recall correctly. His new book, called "Mountains Beyond Mountains: Healing the World," is the story of Dr. Paul Farmer, who went to Haiti, one of the most benighted places on the planet, and tried to both combat disease and end poverty. And, well, it's a perennial tale and a good one, a tale for our times told by one of America's best storytellers.

KAGAN: All right, you say historical nonfiction and some people's eyes just glaze over. But you say there's a book out there, "Seas of Glory," that explores a kind of forgotten chapter of history involving Antarctica.

WASSERMAN: Well, it would be a mistake for people's eyes to glaze over for historical nonfiction. Some of the best and most compelling page-turners being written this year and last year and many years before that are by very gifted storytellers.

And they do say truth is stranger than fiction. And this is the tale of the most astonishing scientific expedition ever launched in the 19th century by the American government. It was the exploring expeditions which discovered Antarctica and went 'round the Pacific, mapping this uncharted sea and trying to accumulate every known fact about it.

It was a remarkable voyage. What many people don't recall, if they recall it at all, is that the commander of that expedition was later court-martialed and an extraordinary trial ensued. Nathaniel Philbrick, who some years ago wrote a book about the whaling ship of the 19th century, the USS Essex, which won numerous prizes and was a best-seller itself, has written "Sea of Glory" the tale of the exploring expeditions. And I promise you, readers will not be disappointed by this book.

KAGAN: Very good. I didn't mean to slam historical nonfiction there. I just want to say that we might not draw as many people to that section of our fictional bookstore here tonight.

Our next one, we want to get a novel in there, "Yellow Dog." In looking at the notes, I hear you say that you are not really even sure what this book is about, and yet you're recommending it. So how does that work?

WASSERMAN: I'm recommending it because it's by Martin Amis, who is the enfant terrible of English letters, and whose previous books all have been critically acclaimed, and who is the son of Kingsley Amis, the late British novelist. Every book by Martin Amis is worth reading. He's an astonishing wordsmith. Sentence by sentence, there's almost no one who rivals him, save for perhaps Salman Rushdie and some others.

I have no idea what "Yellow Dog" is about. I am told it appears in alternating voices. It's created something of a stir in England, where it was published last month. It makes its appearance here from Miramax Books. And I look forward to it on the basis of everything previous that Martin Amis has written. I'm sure people will be ultimately bemused and outraged by whatever it is he has to tell us in this book.

KAGAN: It sounds like that is the one you need to pick up if you want to sound fabulous at the next super society cocktail party that someone's going to.

Hey, John Updike has a collection of short stories coming out. Is that worthwhile picking up?

WASSERMAN: Well, everything by John Updike is worth picking up. And this one will require perhaps Arnold Schwarzenegger's muscle mass to actually lift it.

It's a gigantic tome which collects all of John Updike's numerous short stories. Now, he may be thought of by most of our viewers as a novelist, and a very good novelist, indeed. But steadily, over the past 40 and nearly 50 years, he's been churching out one short story after another. It could be said that he's our Chekhov.

KAGAN: And just real quickly, I know we are ending the season of trashy novels on the beach, but any page-turner or thriller or mystery that's not quite so highbrow that perhaps our viewers would be interested in?

WASSERMAN: Sure. I can recommend the most recent novel by L.A.'s own Michael Connelly. All of Connelly's books are worth reading. And if you thought the era of Raymond Chandler was over and that L.A. noir no longer exist, arguably, the most interesting books about Los Angeles continue to be written by such thriller writers as Michael Connelly. That's a page-turner, if ever there was one.

KAGAN: Very good, wrapping up with a plug for a homeboy. Very well done,

Steve Wasserman, from the "L.A. Times," we appreciate all those tips heading out from here to the bookstore. Thanks for joining us this evening.

As our special fall preview continues here on NEWSNIGHT, we are going to look at what movies and television shows are getting the most buzz. So stay with us for that. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Hard to imagine, given the hype, that the summer movie blockbuster season did not bust as many blocks as Hollywood would have liked. Ticket sales were actually down slightly from a year ago. So what does autumn have in store and what's worth seeing, even if no one else does?

Jodi Kantor is deputy editor of "The New York Times" arts and leisure section. And she is with us here on NEWSNIGHT.

Thanks for being with us.

JODI KANTOR, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": Sure.

KAGAN: We're going to start at the movies with a movie and a performance that's already getting a little bit of Oscar buzz. Sofia Coppola has directed -- of course, she's the daughter of the famous director Francis Ford Coppola -- she has directed "Lost in Translation" with Bill Murray in a somewhat dramatic role? Or it's definitely a dramatic role?

KANTOR: It's both a comic and a dramatic role. And as we know, Oscars often don't go to comedic actors. So it will really be amazing if he pulls this off.

"Lost in Translation" is a slender, very focused movie. There are basically just two characters. It takes place in a Tokyo hotel. And it's just incredibly lyrical, very, very moving. There's a tremendous amount of humor in it, but also a kind of poignancy. Sofia Coppola's father makes these kind of sprawling nine-act movies. And this is a very focused one.

KAGAN: So she likes little stories.

This is kind of a part of this rise of independent movies that we are seeing continuing from the summer.

KANTOR: Absolutely. I think that trend really will continue to fall, because there's some excellent, we say smaller movies, but they're really not that small.

KAGAN: Any movie with a high expectation that you don't think is going to do that well? And I am thinking of a new movie coming out with Meg Ryan that she might have been miscast in.

KANTOR: Meg Ryan is in this incredibly kinky, erotic thriller called "In the Cut." Jane Campion, who is a tremendous director, did it.

KAGAN: "The Piano."

KANTOR: Exactly.

But seeing Meg Ryan in this movie is sort of like seeing your kindergarten teacher in a porn shop. It just sort of makes you squirm.

KAGAN: You don't want to go there.

KANTOR: You don't want to go there.

(CROSSTALK)

KAGAN: It might be enough to keep you home from the movies and in front of the television set.

KANTOR: Right.

KAGAN: So let's talk what coming on in the new fall season.

There's this new series "K Street." It's not reality television. It's not a documentary.

KANTOR: It's sort of both.

KAGAN: It's something in the middle.

KANTOR: This is by far the riskiest and most innovative show. It could be a huge success. It could be a huge failure.

KAGAN: It has real people in it.

KANTOR: Yes.

Well, it's a show about a D.C. lobbying firm which is fictional. But the lobbyists are actually played by real people, such as James Carville and Mary Matalin. Lots of real politicians are going to be on the show and they'll be discussing real issues. The show is being filmed Monday through Wednesday every week, edited on Thursday and Friday, and then broadcast on Sunday.

So it's hoping to riff on the headlines. I think the really strange thing about the show is that it could end up influencing the election cycle. What HBO wants to do is do 10 weeks in the fall, 10 weeks during primary season, and then 10 weeks at the conventions next summer. And you can just imagine a political candidate going on this show and saying something, and all of us shrugging and saying, is this real? Is this politician acting? Is this actually a campaign statement?

And I think the show could actually end up influencing the election cycle in a very weird way.

KAGAN: Well, HBO is the network -- and we should say owned, of course, by our same parent company -- but it is a network that has taken chances and chances that have paid off.

KANTOR: Yes.

KAGAN: Including "The Sopranos." Now, a star that is now famous from "The Sopranos" for having his head cut off, the actor who played Ralphie, he's getting his own series. KANTOR: And for once, he gets to play the good guy.

(CROSSTALK)

KAGAN: With his head attached?

KANTOR: With his head attached.

KAGAN: OK, that's a good thing.

KANTOR: You'll remember, he also played the bad guy in "The Matrix." So I think everybody just sees this guy and thinks the worst of him.

But he plays a handler for undercover FBI agents. He sort of supervises them, yanks them in and out of situations. What's really fun about this show is that these undercover agents are always kind of assuming these disguises and getups and personas. So it's almost like acting within the show. We get to see a character change into a different accent, sort of go into a homeless shelter for a week at a time, which I think could make for some great television.

KAGAN: It sound like producers are taking some chances. We will see if they pan out.

Jodi Kantor, thank you for joining us. Appreciate that.

(CROSSTALK)

KAGAN: Coming up next on NEWSNIGHT, something to eat while you watch that new television show, perhaps? We are going to celebrate the 50th birthday of the TV dinner.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: And finally tonight, the longest running television hit ever produced. Here are the ingredients. There was one harried executive, a holiday dinner gone wrong, and 270 tons of turkey. This is the story of Gerald Thomas; 50 years ago, Thomas turned that surplus turkey into something fit for prime time for a company, not for a network, a company by the name of Gerry Thomas.

His invention is remembered this month on the pages of "Gourmet" magazine in an article by film and television writer Judith Crist.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, AD)

NARRATOR: Big evening out? Leaving your children with no dinner? You think they'll go to the trouble of preparing a complete meal for themselves?

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS: They don't have too. Swanson's already done it.

NARRATOR: Serve Swanson TV brand dinners.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: Smart thinking.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JUDITH CRIST, FOOD AND TV AFICIONADO: 2003 is the 50th anniversary of the TV dinner, the frozen TV dinner that really changed the way of a lot of us eat.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, AD)

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: Trust Swanson. That's what most folks do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CRIST: They themselves expected, well, maybe they would sell 5,000. And before they knew it, they were selling millions.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, AD)

NARRATOR: Swanson does the work.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CRIST: To buy a frozen dinner and heat it up in the oven was marvelous, because mom could be with you. And it was convenient. So whether you're a single person, a soccer mom, or somebody who can't get things together on time, time has become of the essence for us.

Now you can get a pot roast, a pot roast that goes from the refrigerator to the microwave. And six minutes later, you can have it for dinner as the main course. So while some of the food may be zapped, some of the food may be sweated over for hours, there are now all kinds of interesting food.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you want them to cook up quick...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CRIST: It's also that TV cooking shows have been with us now for half-a-century. You can see a cooking show 24 hours a day. And it's changed our whole -- I believe, our whole attitudes towards food. I think an increasing number of people, domestically, are living to eat because they're fascinated by food.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE FRENCH CHEF")

JULIA CHILD, HOST: Welcome to "The French Chef." I'm Julia Child. Today, we are going to do breast of chicken, which I think is just fun. You can get the whole family in on the act.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CRIST: Whether it's by way of Julia Child or by way of Emeril. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EMERIL, CHEF: Bam, just kind of, you know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CRIST: It's just become a spectator sport, the whole preparation of food.

Who wants to peel the carrot? Who wants to chop up the broccoli or even slice the onions or dice the onions? Right in your grocers' freezer, as we say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, AD)

NARRATOR: It's quick and easy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CRIST: We're fascinated as a people with speed and efficiency. That's how the TV dinner arrived in its aluminum tray. And you didn't have to clean up anything.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, AD)

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS: It's delicious, like my own home cooking.

NARRATOR: Try Swanson TV dinners yourself and see.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: And that's going to do it for us. I'm Daryn Kagan.

Aaron Brown right back in this seat tomorrow night. Hope you had a great Labor Day weekend.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





Najaf Continues; Israel Declares All-Out War on Hamas>


Aired September 1, 2003 - 22:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, I'm Daryn Kagan. Aaron is off tonight.
A good deal of our program tonight is devoted to the true meaning of Labor Day. For many that means recognizing the contributions of the country's workforce. That, of course, was the original meaning of Labor Day.

For a lot of people it's more about beaches and traffic and sales at the mall and, for the staff here at NEWSNIGHT it's a chance to look at what Labor Day has always been the dividing line between summer and a lot of things yet to come.

We will begin, as always though, with the whip, starting off with developments in Baghdad and CNN's Rym Brahimi, Rym our first headline of the night please.

RYM BRAHIMI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the plot thickens here in Iraq, Daryn. The investigation for Iraq's deadliest attack since the end of the war continues now with some assistance but one of the potential suspects has apparently said it's not them. You'll hear more about that in a few minutes.

KAGAN: Look forward to that.

We move on to Gaza and the latest shot in the war between Israel and Hamas. Our Matthew Chance is on the videophone and has a headline from Gaza -- Matthew.

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via videophone): Daryn, thank you, and Israeli has upped its stakes in its battle with the Palestinian militants declaring itself in a state of all out war with the militant group Hamas that as it carries out more deadly strikes against the militant group on the streets of Gaza. We'll have all the details in a moment.

KAGAN: And next we'll move on to Washington and CNN's David Ensor on the man who spied for a friendly country but got life in prison anyway, David your headline please.

DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Daryn, tomorrow his lawyers will argue that Jonathan Pollard who spied for Israel should not have a life sentence that his sentence should be reconsidered. After all he didn't spy for an enemy like the Soviets at the time but for a friendly country; however, government lawyers will argue that treason is treason and the last time this came up the CIA director threatened to resign if the sentence was reduced.

KAGAN: We want to hear more about that, we will.

Finally, we'll head out to Los Angeles, that's where we find our Frank Buckley covering the recall and a headline from there from southern California -- Frank.

FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Daryn, the first debate of the recall race is just a couple of days away but Arnold Schwarzenegger won't be among the debaters and today one of his fellow Republicans tried to make that an issue saying it was a matter of respect for the voters and the process for Schwarzenegger to show up.

KAGAN: I hear Arnold actually answered some questions today. We'll be looking forward to hear what some of those answers are. Well, we'll be back with all of you in just a minute.

Also coming up tonight a look at what is coming up this year and beyond with the presidential race gearing up and a Democratic frontrunner emerging. A political discussion with "Time" magazine's Rick Stengel.

Also tonight, the business of books, what's coming out in the weeks ahead? Steve Wasserman of the "L.A. Times" is here with a reading list for us.

And, after a slower than normal summer, where is Hollywood heading this fall? Film critic Jodie Canter (ph) has a sneak preview of the good, the bad, and the real Thanksgiving turkeys ahead.

All that is in the hour ahead, first let's get the latest from Baghdad. There are beginnings of a new Iraqi government, also though an unwelcome reminder of the old one, here again CNN's Rym Brahimi.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRAHIMI (voice-over): Iraq's former president apparently speaks out again this time to deny any responsibility for the most deadly attack in post-war Iraq. In another audio tape broadcast by an Arabic satellite channel a voice purporting to be that of Saddam Hussein calls on Iraqis not to believe what they hear from the occupying invaders with regard to Friday's bomb in Najaf.

SADDAM HUSSEIN (through translator): They hasten to accuse us before they have any proof. Do they do this to shift the attention from those really responsible for this?

BRAHIMI: Iraqis shocked by the violent attack at the most holy site for Shiite Muslims in which at least 83 people died, including a religious and political leader, are divided between those who believe foreign groups from elsewhere in the region are responsible for it and those who think their former president instigated it. But most are waiting for the investigation to turn up the culprits, an investigation in which the FBI will now participate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): The tape has no value. If he says he's innocent that's not necessarily so. But if they catch the people who did the attack it will show if he's innocent or not.

BRAHIMI: The attack triggered calls for revenge by many Iraqi Shiites and called by some prominent religious leaders not to respond with more blood leaving to fear among many Iraqis that the country may be on the brink of civil war.

This comes as the Iraqi Governing Council announced the much delayed appointment of a new cabinet the first since the U.S.-led war toppled Saddam Hussein's regime.

The 25 cabinet ministers reflect the exact ethnic and religious breakdown of the 25 member governing body. All are approved by the U.S. Administrator in Iraq Paul Bremer and while many Iraqis say they're not familiar with the new ministers, some are willing to give the new cabinet a chance.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): If they take us toward democracy and freedom and provide the services then we'll support it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BRAHIMI: Well, the main thing that Iraqis really want from their cabinet, Daryn, is security. Coalition authorities say the Iraqi police will now answer to Iraqi ministers but they also say that coalition troops will safeguard this country providing extra firepower when needed.

It seems to be an indication basically that the ultimate decision making, or at least much of the ultimate decision making, still remains in the hands of the coalition authority -- Daryn.

KAGAN: And so, Rym, on a day-to-day basis what kind of power, what will this 25-member cabinet actually handle? What will it do?

BRAHIMI: Well that's going to be exactly what a lot of Iraqis are waiting to see how much power those ministers will really have. There are, of course, important ministries such as oil, a new ministry for water resources, another new ministry for human rights and environment and it's going to be a bit of a -- it's going to be interesting to see how that plays out with the advisers from the coalition that are there to advise the various ministers in the cabinet.

But, of course, there are a lot of questions as to how much those ministers will really be able to do to not only take over the responsibilities from the coalition authorities but really deliver on the ground seeing as they're also each from very different parties and political deviances in the country -- Daryn.

KAGAN: And you will be watching it from Baghdad. Rym Brahimi, thank you for that report.

We move on now to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Tonight it resembles an all out war between Israel and Hamas. The Israeli military launched another attack today. It was the sixth one in two weeks targeting Hamas leaders and their lieutenants, helicopters and missiles doing what Israel says the Palestinian Authority will not.

For its part, though, the Palestinian Authority says that continuing missile attacks make that job, reigning in the militants, even harder to do, the report from Matthew Chance.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHANCE (voice-over): On the crowded streets of Gaza, bloodshed and chaos as Israel again unleashes its firepower. Rescue workers struggle through the mayhem pulling casualties from the flaming wreckage. The car carrying Hamas militants was struck by rockets from a helicopter gunship.

"When we arrived at the scene the car was burning and there was a man inside alive" says this rescue worker. He says he burned his own hand trying to put him out.

At least one Hamas activist has been confirmed dead brining to 11 the number of militants killed in this way in less than two weeks. For those here this is a policy of assassination. Israel says its strikes are carefully targeted.

The scene at the al-Shifa Hospital one of pandemonium as doctors treated at least 25 injured. Most were bystanders with no connection with militant groups. This is the risk that striking from the air in one of the most densely populated areas on earth.

But, in Israel, the government of Ariel Sharon appears to be stepping up its campaign against Hamas. In a statement the government has declared an all out war against the militant group saying it will continue to strike at its leaders.

Operations against what it calls the focus of terror in the West Bank are to be increased and all diplomatic contacts with the Palestinian Authority frozen until the PA, in the words of Israel, deals with the infrastructure of terror. It is Israel's new hard line that may bring more strikes like this on militants it regards as the obstacles to peace.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHANCE: Well, Daryn, Israel says it has no choice but to act in this way against the militants. The Palestinian Authority, it says, has simply failed to do what it was supposed to do, which is to confront militants head on. But I can tell you that with each strike on the streets of Gaza the voices of anger are raised and the calls by the militants for revenge against Israel grow louder -- Daryn.

KAGAN: And, Matthew, one of the problems seems to be the power struggle going on within the Palestinian movement. I understand the Egyptians got involved on Sunday and held talks between Hamas leaders and other Palestinian leaders. Were those effective at all?

CHANCE: Well, the effort of course is by the Palestinian Authority in conjunction with the Egyptians to try and get the militant groups to reinstate their cease-fire, which they abandoned a couple of weeks ago formally after Israel killed one of the founding members of the Hamas militant group, Ismail Abu Shanab.

But that was always going to be very difficult and in this poisonous environment Nobody here on the streets of Gaza is talking about it as being a real possibility.

KAGAN: Matthew Chance in Gaza. Matthew, thank you.

Tomorrow there will be a hearing in Washington that will be very closely watched in Israel because it concerns the case of Jonathan Pollard. Pollard is the American convicted of spying for Israel and the hearing could determine whether he can appeal his life sentence, more now from David Ensor.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ENSOR (voice-over): Jonathan Pollard has now served nearly 18 years of a life sentence for spying against the United States on behalf of a friendly nation, Israel.

JOSEPH DIGENOVA, U.S. ATTORNEY: Mr. Pollard, I believe, will not see the light of day.

ENSOR: The prosecutor welcomed the life sentence imposed after then Defense Secretary Caspar Weinberger told the court it was difficult to conceive of greater damage to national security but Pollard's lawyers and supporters argue the punishment far exceeds the crime.

REP. ANTHONY WEINER (D), NEW YORK: No doubt about it he should not have passed those documents to our ally Israel but it is certainly not something that rose to the level that Caspar Weinberger alleged it did.

ENSOR: U.S. intelligence officials, though, argue Pollard is a spy whose sentence should not be reconsidered.

BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: With respect to Mr. Pollard I have agreed to review this matter seriously.

ENSOR: Five years ago when then Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu convinced President Clinton to consider a pardon, U.S. officials say CIA Director George Tenet privately told Mr. Clinton he would have to resign if Pollard's sentence was changed. Richard Haver was a naval intelligence officer who worked on the case.

RICHARD HAVER, FORMER U.S. INTELLIGENCE OFFICIAL: Pollard is a traitor to the United States. He's also, as far as I'm concerned, would have compromised the Israelis in a heartbeat too if it had struck him as something that he wanted to do because that was -- that's the history of Pollard when you look at it. He's now reinvented himself as a great Jewish patriot and tried to present that to the people.

ENSOR: U.S. intelligence and law enforcement officials say there are indications that top secret satellite and signals intelligence Pollard gave to Israel ended up in the hands of the Soviet Union. Pollard's motive, they say, was money pure and simple. There is evidence, they say, that Pollard also approached Pakistan, South Africa, and others offering classified materials for sale.

WEINER: There has never been anywhere in the court documents or anywhere else the allegation that he spied for anyone else but this is what Jonathan Pollard is up against. He's sitting in a jail cell in a maximum security cell while members of the intelligence community, some of which are only tangentially connected to this, are essentially free to say whatever they want.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ENSOR: Some U.S. intelligence officials say if Israel was ever willing to detail for the U.S. all the documents and intelligence that Pollard stole then officials here might feel differently about letting him go -- Daryn.

KAGAN: And, David, I understand there are some secret documents at issue here that his former -- Pollard's former attorneys had a look at. These new attorneys want to see it but the government attorneys say that that's a no go.

ENSOR: Well, that's right. Caspar Weinberger, the then defense secretary, wrote an analysis of what the damage was to U.S. national security and, until now, there's never been a chance for the defenders of Jonathan Pollard to see that document and deal with it and answer it in court. They want a chance to do that.

KAGAN: And, tomorrow is a procedural matter. Nothing is going to happen tomorrow like he'll be turned over to Israel?

ENSOR: No. That is, of course, what he wants. He wants to be freed for time served and he wants to go to Israel where he says his heart belongs, where his real country is in his belief.

KAGAN: David Ensor in Washington, thank you. You'll be tracking that story for us tomorrow I know.

Also tomorrow night here on NEWSNIGHT we want to tell you that we'll have the attorneys for Jonathan Pollard, Elliott Lauer (ph) and Jacques Semonim (ph) will be right here with Aaron.

Still ahead on this Labor Day edition of NEWSNIGHT we're going to have the latest developments in the California recall and get the perspective of populist Jim Hightower on the story.

And later, the TV dinner turns 50, a look back at how it changed the way we eat.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Just in case you're counting there are only 36 days to go until California's recall election. Candidate Arnold Schwarzenegger made an appearance today at the state fair in Sacramento.

Here's a new twist, he actually took some questions today. With some of those answers here's CNN's Frank Buckley.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BUCKLEY (voice-over): As the movie star candidate Arnold Schwarzenegger reveled in the love of his fans and supporters at the state fair, a fellow Republican with far less stage presence, Peter Ueberroth, took Schwarzenegger to task for refusing to appear on stage in the first debate of the campaign scheduled for Wednesday.

PETER UEBERROTH (R), GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: Arnold is a great communicator. Come on and tell the voters why you should be governor.

BUCKLEY: But, Schwarzenegger made it clear he would debate only once and not this Wednesday.

ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER (R), GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: I'm looking forward to the debate. It's going to be great with the California broadcasters, yes. It's going to be a fantastic debate.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you not going to do any of the other debates sir?

SCHWARZENEGGER: We are going to do one great debate and bring out all the different issues, OK.

BUCKLEY: Aides insist the actor does not fear debates and that the decision to do only one struck a balance in a compressed campaign but Ueberroth implied that missing this one was disrespectful.

UEBERROTH: Being part of these debates shows respect to the voters so I hope he'll reconsider. I hope he'll be there Wednesday night.

BUCKLEY: Meanwhile, the two major Democrats in the race, Governor Gray Davis who is trying to keep his job, and Lieutenant Governor Cruz Bustamante whose campaign is also built on the idea that Davis should keep his job but if he doesn't you should vote for me, courted the crucial labor vote. Governor Davis sounding one of his campaign's major themes that he gets it.

GOV. GRAY DAVIS (D), CALIFORNIA: I know many Californians are angry and, trust me this recall is a humbling experience. I would not wish it on my worst enemy.

BUCKLEY: Bustamante, leading the most recent "L.A. Times" poll among all of the would-be replacements, including Schwarzenegger, warned the muscle man he was ready to rumble.

LT. GOV. CRUZ BUSTAMANTE (D), GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: We will take it to them and if Arnold thinks that he's going to get a pass, I mean.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BUCKLEY: Labor Day marks the traditional beginning or restart of fall campaigns when voters begin to pay closer attention and the campaigns will begin to act accordingly.

We're expecting Gray Davis to come up with his first TV ads on Wednesday. The Ueberroth campaign also coming up later this week or early next week on TV and Arnold Schwarzenegger will be on the road more, according to his aides. They say he will be on the stump beginning Wednesday through the weekend but, again Daryn, he will not appear in the debate on Wednesday.

KAGAN: Those Bustamante biceps were pretty impressive there in your piece Frank.

BUCKLEY: Got his own muscles.

KAGAN: Yes. I have another date to throw out to you September 22nd the deadline for voters to register for this race in California, what is each party doing to get out that effort?

BUCKLEY: Well, they're all racing to try to get their turnout because turnout is so crucial in this election but the real story behind the turnout is what exactly is going to happen with the elections officials once they get all of those registrations in?

Will they be able to turn around and get the absentee ballots out in time? Will they be able to get enough poll workers in place? Will they have enough polling places? Will the machines work once the people get there?

Some of the counties, including L.A. County, will be using those old punch card machines so a whole bunch of questions related to voter registration and how quickly the elections officials will be able to turn around those voter cards once they come in.

KAGAN: Which is why you and our other California political correspondents will be so busy until October 7, Frank thanks for that.

BUCKLEY: Appears so.

KAGAN: Well, Jim Hightower, you've heard of him perhaps. His Web site bills him as America's number one populist who better to ask California's popular uprising? I had a chance to talk with Hightower recently. I think you'll also hear that he is a proud contrarian and he's got issues with the recall, not to mention business as usual when it comes to many things. Let's listen in.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: The California recall, I get the feeling that this is a story that could have been written by Jim Hightower, that this is right out of your book.

JIM HIGHTOWER, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You know, it's hard to write satire these days.

KAGAN: That is.

HIGHTOWER: Because you can take it right off the TV cameras. I don't know if it's the slow summer movie season or what but imagine that you're an Iraqi and you're looking at this California election or what Tom DeLay is doing in Texas with the reapportionment thing and you're thinking these people are going to bring democracy to us?

KAGAN: But really the spirit of the California recall, this really does sound like something that you would support. These are people are rising up and taking back their state government. You don't think it's a good idea?

HIGHTOWER: Well, it's not exactly that. When you say the people there was no groundswell for this to happen. A guy named Darrell Issa, a gabillionaire (ph) put out $2.5 million of his own money to try to make this happen because he thought he was going to get to run and win.

But then Arnold stepped in and so Darrell ended up crying at his own press conference and saying he wasn't going to get to be a part of the show. But I'm in favor of initiative referendum even recalls but the problem is that money has distorted this process just as it's distorting our general election process.

KAGAN: What about Al Gore's idea for this idea of having a liberal television network or at least some kind of talk radio network, getting something together where there would be liberal talk show hosts?

HIGHTOWER: Well, you know, the truth is we have a lot of voices already out there that, you know, don't get covered much. I mean I've been on radio myself for more than ten years with radio commentaries and even radio talk shows.

The problem is not progressives being able to do it but the fact that the radio particularly, well television too, but radio in particular is owned by conglomerates that do not want a progressive and certainly a populist voice on, a voice that would challenge, for example, media conglomeration by those very corporations. So, it's the ownership structure of the media these days that is preventing the progressive voice from being on.

KAGAN: But, Jim, just for a moment, let's just step back for a moment.

HIGHTOWER: OK.

KAGAN: And let's just look at conservatives. Whether you agree with conservatives or not, one thing conservatives do know how to do they know how to be angry and they know how to do that better than liberals do.

HIGHTOWER: Well, I don't know, you know. I consider myself a fairly angry fellow in my deep moments but, you know, it's not all about anger. It is also about humor. It's also about optimism, about what American can be.

It's also about tapping into the great strength of the people, which in this new book that I've written that's what it's about that beneath the media radar, beneath the sight of the political establishment there's wonderful progressive political activity of people out there fighting for living wages, battling against the Wal- Mart behemoth bulling its way into our neighborhoods, issue after issue and they're winning.

So, there are great stories to tell and I think that that also makes good television and people -- or radio and people are looking for that kind of positive message, uplifting.

KAGAN: I think one thing is interesting in your book because you're not only looking at the fat cats, at the corporate big wigs, but you're also calling on your readers and you're basically saying you know what get off your you-know-what and get involved and make changes. Just don't sit there and whine about it.

HIGHTOWER: I hate the whining.

KAGAN: Yes.

HIGHTOWER: You know and I go to just about any speech or any meeting and there will be at least one person that will go into this long droning whine about it and then it ends up, and I'll tell you back in the 1960s what it was like and you know about that point I interrupt old Wheezer (ph) and say, you know, get real.

This country is about, you know, real fighters and brawlers from the founders themselves to the abolitionists and suffragettes and the civil rights movement and the labor movement. People have fought hard, bled, died, to make it possible for us to have even the democratic possibility.

KAGAN: And you're telling folks to get up and take action. The book is "Thieves in High Places, They've Stolen our Country and it's Time to Take it Back." Thanks for taking just a few minutes to be with us Jim Hightower, appreciate it.

HIGHTOWER: Thank you, Daryn, great to be here.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: The man does not hold back.

Coming up on NEWSNIGHT, more of our fall preview for you. Other political stories are out there, other political candidates. We will talk with Rick Stengel of "Time" magazine.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: A question for you, are you the type who spends all summer at the beach obsessing over who's better at foreign policy, Kerry or Dean? Well, if so you're definitely in the minority.

For most Americans summer is a vacation away from work, school, and especially politics but vacation is over, here now CNN's Jeff Greenfield.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SR. ANALYST (voice-over): With the end of Labor Day, autumn is upon us whatever the calendar says, time for new fashions, new prime time TV programs.

(on camera): And, this fall it's the political world that's filled with some intriguing questions. We begin, of course, in California where an election in five weeks' time will tell us whether Governor Gray Davis will lose his job and, if so, who will replace him.

Key questions here will Arnold Schwarzenegger debate? Will Republicans persuade conservative State Senator Tom McClintock to drop out and clear the field? Will Democrats decide that Governor Davis can't be saved and throw all their resources behind Lieutenant Governor Cruz Bustamante? And, oh yes, will the federal courts delay the election?

On the Democratic primary front there is one overarching question, is Howard Dean a long distance runner? By every measure so far, crowd size, money raised, poll standings, the former Vermont governor has been the story. There's even talk that Dean may decline public financing and free himself from campaign spending limits the way Governor George W. Bush did four years ago.

So far, Dean has left his major rivals in his wake. Senator John Kerry, once the odds on favorite in New Hampshire trails badly now. Two other Senators, North Carolina's John Edwards and Florida's Bob Graham have their Senate seats up next year. They must decide, not legally but politically, whether to walk away from those Senate seats or throw in their presidential cards.

Connecticut Senator Joseph Lieberman, whose name recognition gave him strong poll numbers earlier, has generated little heat. Congressman Richard Gephardt badly needs a formal AFL-CIO endorsement next month to jump-start his campaign. We'll also learn this fall whether somebody else, General Wesley Clark, Senator Hillary Clinton, Al Gore, will be a late entry into the field.

But each of Dean's rivals has the same goal, to become the candidate of major elements of the Democratic base, labor, minorities, elected officials, who might not find Dean acceptable. The question is, which of them, if any, becomes the un-Dean?

And then, events this fall season could shape the political terrain beyond the control of any spin doctor. Will Iraq become more or less stable? Will the Middle East be transformed? Or will new doubts about the administration's policy emerge?

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Free and sovereign Palestinian state.

GREENFIELD: And, finally, the voters' view of domestic economy, almost always a decisive campaign issue, will take firm shape some time before year's end. (on camera): There's something of a tradition at this point in the political season. The cottage industry of pols and journalists find its collective heartbeat racing, while the vast majority are Americans are saying, not yet, not yet. But this fall, it might actually be worthwhile to start paying attention.

Jeff Greenfield, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: Well, we have started paying attention.

With us now, a member of that cottage industry that Jeff was talking about. Rick Stengel is the national editor of "TIME" magazine. And he is with us here tonight.

Good to have you with us laboring on Labor Day, putting you to work.

RICHARD STENGEL, "TIME": Yes, exactly. Happy Labor Day to you.

KAGAN: Well, thank you so much.

As we look forward to this fall political season, let's look at the main course, the big nugget. And that is the California recall election. How do you think that one's going to play out?

STENGEL: It's kind of questionable. I mean, Arnie obviously has the most name recognition among the Republicans. But he has a lot of competition.

Cruz Bustamante is kind of the only girl at the dance for Democrats. So if people to have a Democrat in office, they vote for Bustamante.

KAGAN: Gray Davis might differ with you on that.

STENGEL: Well, yes.

But they're both saying, vote no on question one and for Cruz on question two, which is smart.

KAGAN: Well, meanwhile, what that has done is kind of sucked all the power and the spotlight away from the Democratic presidential candidates. "USA Today" had a very interesting poll, asking two- thirds of the people they polled, could you even name a single person running for the Democratic nomination for president? And two-thirds of them couldn't come up with a single name.

STENGEL: And one-third said Al Gore.

(CROSSTALK)

STENGEL: But that isn't that strange, really.

People are not paying attention. Most of these guys running for president, with the exception of the man who ran for vice president last time, Joe Lieberman, people don't know who they are. And they won't know who they are for months and months, really until the New Hampshire primary and the Iowa caucuses come 'round the bend.

KAGAN: People who are kind of getting on the buzz, they're starting to learn about Dr. Howard Dean, former governor of Vermont.

STENGEL: Right.

It's rough for the other Democrats, because Howard Dean is sucking all the air out of the room. He's both a vessel for discontent of people who don't like Bush and didn't like the war in Iraq. And because he was against it, he speaks very clearly and very simply. All the others kind of are mealymouthed about things. And so Dean really has risen to the top.

KAGAN: Well, what about the man getting so much attention by not announcing, Wesley Clark? What is he waiting for?

STENGEL: Well, it's funny.

A lot people are saying now, it's Howard and who else? And some people are looking for a new knight in shining armor to come riding in.

(CROSSTALK)

KAGAN: General.

STENGEL: A general, exactly, and on his white horse.

And, in fact, the thing is, because he has those military credentials, he was also against the war in Iraq, he has something that Dean doesn't have, which is that military background. And it nullifies John Kerry's military background. So he's appealing to a lot of people. But it is kind of late.

KAGAN: But then also buzzing out there over the last week, Hillary Clinton, saying she is going to jump in, in 2004, instead of waiting until 2008.

(CROSSTALK)

STENGEL: People are going to be saying Hillary Clinton until the day before the election.

So she's given a pretty Shermanesque statement that she's not going to run. This is not her time. She's a new first-term senator. I think this is just wishful thinking on a lot of people's parts.

KAGAN: Meanwhile -- and we heard Jeff talk about this a little bit in his piece -- campaign finance reform, we heard so much about this, especially from John McCain. Where has this gone? What does it mean? Does it mean anything?

STENGEL: Yes. It's the law of unintended consequences, because, with Bush opting out from getting federal matching funds, the Democrats look at this and say, how can we really compete if we abide by the federal matching grant?

What happens then is, they have no money from the end of the primaries until the conventions in the summer. And that is when Bush will just blast them. So they have to say, Howard Dean's thinking: Look, I've already raised $15 million. I've already raised it from 100,000 people. That's twice as many people who contributed to Al Gore last time around.

And he's thinking: If I really am going to compete against George Bush and I get the nomination, I have to opt out. And that is the death knell really to campaign finance reform, because when both candidates opt out, what's the law?

(CROSSTALK)

KAGAN: ... follows the rules, then a rule doesn't really mean anything.

Meanwhile, President Bush running around, making a lot of appearances, raising a lot of money, a lot of money, starting to talk economy. But then there's still the war out there.

(CROSSTALK)

STENGEL: Right.

The plan was, after the war in Iraq, he was going to turn swords into plowshares and talk about the domestic economy. The problem is, the war in Iraq is not over. It's still going on. But he still has to address domestic issues. He's been talking about jobs this past week. He might have a double whammy, which is, if the war doesn't go well and the economy doesn't improve, that would be a difficult situation.

KAGAN: Very good. Rick Stengel, "TIME" magazine, appreciate your time. And, once again, thanks again for coming in on Labor Day. It will be fascinating to watch, not just fall, but as 2004 kicks off as well.

Still to come on NEWSNIGHT, our fall preview continues. We're going to talk with Steve Wasserman. He's of "The L.A. Times." He's going to talk about what books will be hot this fall, joining us from Los Angeles.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Well, just in case you think you have a huge pile waiting for you on your desk, consider our next guest.

Steve Wasserman is the editor of "Los Angeles Times Book Review." He gets an estimated 60,000 books each year. Fortunately, he's found a few out of that mass that he thinks are worth reading this fall. He joins us now from Los Angeles.

Good evening. Thanks for being with us.

STEVE WASSERMAN, "LOS ANGELES TIMES BOOK REVIEW": It's always a pleasure, Daryn. Good to be here.

KAGAN: I want to treat this like I ran into you in the bookstore and I'm just going to bug you for the book that I need to get. And we're going to start here with -- since it's Labor Day, we are going to start with a book that was written about a doctor who is doing some incredible work with AIDS patients, "Mountains Beyond Mountains." What's that one about?

WASSERMAN: Well, this is a book by Tracy Kidder, whose book "Soul of a New Machine" many of the viewers may recall. It was greeted with great ecstasy.

And he's sort of a writer's writer. The book went on to win numerous prizes. It was a best-seller about the building of a computer, if I recall correctly. His new book, called "Mountains Beyond Mountains: Healing the World," is the story of Dr. Paul Farmer, who went to Haiti, one of the most benighted places on the planet, and tried to both combat disease and end poverty. And, well, it's a perennial tale and a good one, a tale for our times told by one of America's best storytellers.

KAGAN: All right, you say historical nonfiction and some people's eyes just glaze over. But you say there's a book out there, "Seas of Glory," that explores a kind of forgotten chapter of history involving Antarctica.

WASSERMAN: Well, it would be a mistake for people's eyes to glaze over for historical nonfiction. Some of the best and most compelling page-turners being written this year and last year and many years before that are by very gifted storytellers.

And they do say truth is stranger than fiction. And this is the tale of the most astonishing scientific expedition ever launched in the 19th century by the American government. It was the exploring expeditions which discovered Antarctica and went 'round the Pacific, mapping this uncharted sea and trying to accumulate every known fact about it.

It was a remarkable voyage. What many people don't recall, if they recall it at all, is that the commander of that expedition was later court-martialed and an extraordinary trial ensued. Nathaniel Philbrick, who some years ago wrote a book about the whaling ship of the 19th century, the USS Essex, which won numerous prizes and was a best-seller itself, has written "Sea of Glory" the tale of the exploring expeditions. And I promise you, readers will not be disappointed by this book.

KAGAN: Very good. I didn't mean to slam historical nonfiction there. I just want to say that we might not draw as many people to that section of our fictional bookstore here tonight.

Our next one, we want to get a novel in there, "Yellow Dog." In looking at the notes, I hear you say that you are not really even sure what this book is about, and yet you're recommending it. So how does that work?

WASSERMAN: I'm recommending it because it's by Martin Amis, who is the enfant terrible of English letters, and whose previous books all have been critically acclaimed, and who is the son of Kingsley Amis, the late British novelist. Every book by Martin Amis is worth reading. He's an astonishing wordsmith. Sentence by sentence, there's almost no one who rivals him, save for perhaps Salman Rushdie and some others.

I have no idea what "Yellow Dog" is about. I am told it appears in alternating voices. It's created something of a stir in England, where it was published last month. It makes its appearance here from Miramax Books. And I look forward to it on the basis of everything previous that Martin Amis has written. I'm sure people will be ultimately bemused and outraged by whatever it is he has to tell us in this book.

KAGAN: It sounds like that is the one you need to pick up if you want to sound fabulous at the next super society cocktail party that someone's going to.

Hey, John Updike has a collection of short stories coming out. Is that worthwhile picking up?

WASSERMAN: Well, everything by John Updike is worth picking up. And this one will require perhaps Arnold Schwarzenegger's muscle mass to actually lift it.

It's a gigantic tome which collects all of John Updike's numerous short stories. Now, he may be thought of by most of our viewers as a novelist, and a very good novelist, indeed. But steadily, over the past 40 and nearly 50 years, he's been churching out one short story after another. It could be said that he's our Chekhov.

KAGAN: And just real quickly, I know we are ending the season of trashy novels on the beach, but any page-turner or thriller or mystery that's not quite so highbrow that perhaps our viewers would be interested in?

WASSERMAN: Sure. I can recommend the most recent novel by L.A.'s own Michael Connelly. All of Connelly's books are worth reading. And if you thought the era of Raymond Chandler was over and that L.A. noir no longer exist, arguably, the most interesting books about Los Angeles continue to be written by such thriller writers as Michael Connelly. That's a page-turner, if ever there was one.

KAGAN: Very good, wrapping up with a plug for a homeboy. Very well done,

Steve Wasserman, from the "L.A. Times," we appreciate all those tips heading out from here to the bookstore. Thanks for joining us this evening.

As our special fall preview continues here on NEWSNIGHT, we are going to look at what movies and television shows are getting the most buzz. So stay with us for that. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Hard to imagine, given the hype, that the summer movie blockbuster season did not bust as many blocks as Hollywood would have liked. Ticket sales were actually down slightly from a year ago. So what does autumn have in store and what's worth seeing, even if no one else does?

Jodi Kantor is deputy editor of "The New York Times" arts and leisure section. And she is with us here on NEWSNIGHT.

Thanks for being with us.

JODI KANTOR, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": Sure.

KAGAN: We're going to start at the movies with a movie and a performance that's already getting a little bit of Oscar buzz. Sofia Coppola has directed -- of course, she's the daughter of the famous director Francis Ford Coppola -- she has directed "Lost in Translation" with Bill Murray in a somewhat dramatic role? Or it's definitely a dramatic role?

KANTOR: It's both a comic and a dramatic role. And as we know, Oscars often don't go to comedic actors. So it will really be amazing if he pulls this off.

"Lost in Translation" is a slender, very focused movie. There are basically just two characters. It takes place in a Tokyo hotel. And it's just incredibly lyrical, very, very moving. There's a tremendous amount of humor in it, but also a kind of poignancy. Sofia Coppola's father makes these kind of sprawling nine-act movies. And this is a very focused one.

KAGAN: So she likes little stories.

This is kind of a part of this rise of independent movies that we are seeing continuing from the summer.

KANTOR: Absolutely. I think that trend really will continue to fall, because there's some excellent, we say smaller movies, but they're really not that small.

KAGAN: Any movie with a high expectation that you don't think is going to do that well? And I am thinking of a new movie coming out with Meg Ryan that she might have been miscast in.

KANTOR: Meg Ryan is in this incredibly kinky, erotic thriller called "In the Cut." Jane Campion, who is a tremendous director, did it.

KAGAN: "The Piano."

KANTOR: Exactly.

But seeing Meg Ryan in this movie is sort of like seeing your kindergarten teacher in a porn shop. It just sort of makes you squirm.

KAGAN: You don't want to go there.

KANTOR: You don't want to go there.

(CROSSTALK)

KAGAN: It might be enough to keep you home from the movies and in front of the television set.

KANTOR: Right.

KAGAN: So let's talk what coming on in the new fall season.

There's this new series "K Street." It's not reality television. It's not a documentary.

KANTOR: It's sort of both.

KAGAN: It's something in the middle.

KANTOR: This is by far the riskiest and most innovative show. It could be a huge success. It could be a huge failure.

KAGAN: It has real people in it.

KANTOR: Yes.

Well, it's a show about a D.C. lobbying firm which is fictional. But the lobbyists are actually played by real people, such as James Carville and Mary Matalin. Lots of real politicians are going to be on the show and they'll be discussing real issues. The show is being filmed Monday through Wednesday every week, edited on Thursday and Friday, and then broadcast on Sunday.

So it's hoping to riff on the headlines. I think the really strange thing about the show is that it could end up influencing the election cycle. What HBO wants to do is do 10 weeks in the fall, 10 weeks during primary season, and then 10 weeks at the conventions next summer. And you can just imagine a political candidate going on this show and saying something, and all of us shrugging and saying, is this real? Is this politician acting? Is this actually a campaign statement?

And I think the show could actually end up influencing the election cycle in a very weird way.

KAGAN: Well, HBO is the network -- and we should say owned, of course, by our same parent company -- but it is a network that has taken chances and chances that have paid off.

KANTOR: Yes.

KAGAN: Including "The Sopranos." Now, a star that is now famous from "The Sopranos" for having his head cut off, the actor who played Ralphie, he's getting his own series. KANTOR: And for once, he gets to play the good guy.

(CROSSTALK)

KAGAN: With his head attached?

KANTOR: With his head attached.

KAGAN: OK, that's a good thing.

KANTOR: You'll remember, he also played the bad guy in "The Matrix." So I think everybody just sees this guy and thinks the worst of him.

But he plays a handler for undercover FBI agents. He sort of supervises them, yanks them in and out of situations. What's really fun about this show is that these undercover agents are always kind of assuming these disguises and getups and personas. So it's almost like acting within the show. We get to see a character change into a different accent, sort of go into a homeless shelter for a week at a time, which I think could make for some great television.

KAGAN: It sound like producers are taking some chances. We will see if they pan out.

Jodi Kantor, thank you for joining us. Appreciate that.

(CROSSTALK)

KAGAN: Coming up next on NEWSNIGHT, something to eat while you watch that new television show, perhaps? We are going to celebrate the 50th birthday of the TV dinner.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: And finally tonight, the longest running television hit ever produced. Here are the ingredients. There was one harried executive, a holiday dinner gone wrong, and 270 tons of turkey. This is the story of Gerald Thomas; 50 years ago, Thomas turned that surplus turkey into something fit for prime time for a company, not for a network, a company by the name of Gerry Thomas.

His invention is remembered this month on the pages of "Gourmet" magazine in an article by film and television writer Judith Crist.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, AD)

NARRATOR: Big evening out? Leaving your children with no dinner? You think they'll go to the trouble of preparing a complete meal for themselves?

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS: They don't have too. Swanson's already done it.

NARRATOR: Serve Swanson TV brand dinners.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: Smart thinking.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JUDITH CRIST, FOOD AND TV AFICIONADO: 2003 is the 50th anniversary of the TV dinner, the frozen TV dinner that really changed the way of a lot of us eat.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, AD)

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: Trust Swanson. That's what most folks do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CRIST: They themselves expected, well, maybe they would sell 5,000. And before they knew it, they were selling millions.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, AD)

NARRATOR: Swanson does the work.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CRIST: To buy a frozen dinner and heat it up in the oven was marvelous, because mom could be with you. And it was convenient. So whether you're a single person, a soccer mom, or somebody who can't get things together on time, time has become of the essence for us.

Now you can get a pot roast, a pot roast that goes from the refrigerator to the microwave. And six minutes later, you can have it for dinner as the main course. So while some of the food may be zapped, some of the food may be sweated over for hours, there are now all kinds of interesting food.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you want them to cook up quick...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CRIST: It's also that TV cooking shows have been with us now for half-a-century. You can see a cooking show 24 hours a day. And it's changed our whole -- I believe, our whole attitudes towards food. I think an increasing number of people, domestically, are living to eat because they're fascinated by food.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE FRENCH CHEF")

JULIA CHILD, HOST: Welcome to "The French Chef." I'm Julia Child. Today, we are going to do breast of chicken, which I think is just fun. You can get the whole family in on the act.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CRIST: Whether it's by way of Julia Child or by way of Emeril. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EMERIL, CHEF: Bam, just kind of, you know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CRIST: It's just become a spectator sport, the whole preparation of food.

Who wants to peel the carrot? Who wants to chop up the broccoli or even slice the onions or dice the onions? Right in your grocers' freezer, as we say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, AD)

NARRATOR: It's quick and easy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CRIST: We're fascinated as a people with speed and efficiency. That's how the TV dinner arrived in its aluminum tray. And you didn't have to clean up anything.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, AD)

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS: It's delicious, like my own home cooking.

NARRATOR: Try Swanson TV dinners yourself and see.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: And that's going to do it for us. I'm Daryn Kagan.

Aaron Brown right back in this seat tomorrow night. Hope you had a great Labor Day weekend.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





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