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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown

Paul Hill executed in Florida tonight

Aired September 03, 2003 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again everyone.
We have wondered more than once what it must have been like for the people who manage the East Coast power grid when they realized what was going on last month when they looked at their dials or their computer screens when they saw green turn to red or whatever it was those dials did in those few fateful seconds.

What did they think? What did they say? It is I suppose a bit like rubbernecking, slowing down to take a good look at a train wreck. It is irresistible. In this case it is also instructive, which is more than you can say about the train wreck.

Tonight for the first time we know what was going on, at least a bit of it, and a bit of what was said and that's where we begin the whip. CNN's Fred Katayama starts us off with a headline tonight -- Fred.

FRED KATAYAMA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, we just received transcripts tonight of a phone conversation featuring technicians at an Ohio utility that was taped an hour before the big blackout began on August 14th. Confusion, chaos, and anxiety filled the control room -- Aaron.

BROWN: Fred, thank you, back to you at the top tonight.

Next stop, Starke, Florida, the execution of a self professed martyr, a zealot to be sure, CNN's Brian Cabell is at the prison and has the headline -- Brian.

BRIAN CABELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, there was no reprieve. There was no stay granted in Florida today. Paul Hill uttered his last words calling on others to take up his cause against abortion and then he died -- Aaron.

BROWN: Brian, thank you.

In Los Angeles, the debate and the candidate who did not take part, CNN's Kelly Wallace on that, Kelly a headline from you tonight.

KELLY WALLACE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, it was the first debate of this recall race and the Republican frontrunner, Arnold Schwarzenegger, chose to stay away and give a speech to college students instead but there he encountered some unfamiliar territory. He was even pelted with an egg -- Aaron.

BROWN: Kelly, thank you.

And, from the Pentagon and a secret report on the planning or lack of planning for the war's aftermath, our Chief Pentagon Correspondent Jamie McIntyre has been doing the digging there, Jamie give us a headline.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, with criticism of the Pentagon planning from post-war Iraq growing, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is headed to the region for a firsthand look and when a reporter on Rumsfeld's plane suggested that the U.S.-led coalition force wasn't multinational he just about got his head handed to him -- Aaron.

BROWN: Jamie, thank you, we'll get back to you and the rest shortly.

Also coming up on the program tonight a soldier's story, the soldier, the buddy he lost and his search for the bomber who took his buddy's life, the new normal in Iraq.

Also tonight, filmmaker Rick Burns whose documentary on New York went unfinished two years ago. Tonight he joins us to talk about the final installment, the World Trade Center.

And, what program would be complete without a look at tomorrow's headlines tonight? Some other program I guess but not ours, morning papers too, all that to come in the hour ahead.

We begin tonight with the great blackout of 2003. Needless to say when the lights went out on that Thursday afternoon it resulted in a great deal of confusion, not only among those who lost power but also for the people watching over the power grid.

Tonight, we get a sense of what it was like inside the control room of an Ohio power control center as the cascading event spun out of control as the blackout began and spread across the northeast.

It seems that these days everything is recorded and late today several hundred pages of transcripts from control room recordings were released during congressional hearings into the mess.

So, we begin with CNN's Fred Katayama.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KATAYAMA (voice-over): Confusion and anxiety rocked the control room of an Ohio utility in the last hour before the start of the biggest blackout in the nation's history. Transcripts of phone conversations released by a congressional committee reveal that some engineers at the utility, First Energy, didn't have a clue as to what happened.

The group that monitors the power grid in the Midwest, known as MISO, calls a worker identified as Jerry Snickey (ph) of First Energy:

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I wonder what's going on here. Something strange is happening."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "We have no idea what happened. You guys have anything going on?"

KATAYAMA: Don Hunter of MISO explained he called because he saw a transmission line go out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "Now I called you guys a bit ago to find out what was going on because I saw..."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "We have no clue. Our computer is giving us fits too. We don't even know the status of some of the stuff around us."

KATAYAMA: Moments later, MISO gets antsy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I called you guys like ten minutes ago and I thought you were figuring out what was going on there."

FIRST ENERGY: "Well, we're trying to. Our computer is not happy. It's not cooperating either."

KAYAYAMA: The anxious exchanges captured in the 650 pages of transcripts that MISO provided to the House Energy and Commerce Committee, a committee spokesman said confusion was not limited to just First Energy.

The news of the chaos came at the end of day one of the two day hearings looking into why the lights went out on August 14. At the hearing, Michigan Governor Jennifer Granholm blamed Ohio utilities for failing to warn energy firms in her state.

GOV. JENNIFER GRANHOLM, MICHIGAN: Nothing happened. In the best of all possible worlds we would have a command and control system where it would be -- clearly notification would be given to states, to connected grids, to connected entities that a problem was occurring.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KATAYAMA: A First Energy spokesperson told CNN clearly events began happening so quickly that it was difficult to respond. She added that it's part of an internal investigation that the company is conducting.

Now, the release of these documents comes just one day before company chairman Peter Berg (ph) is to testify before the House committee. He had earlier told committee investigators not to focus on a single event as the cause -- Aaron.

BROWN: Are we at all closer, really closer to knowing what happened?

KATAYAMA: We aren't, Aaron. I was at the hearings all day and we heard a lot of explanations but still none of the people testifying at the committee could say this is what happened. Spencer Abraham, the Energy Secretary, said that they're right now going through 10,000 events that occurred in a nine second period and that he refrained saying that he was not going to speculate on what was the cause. The cause that's being studied by the U.S.- Canadian joint committee still has not been determined.

BROWN: Fred, thank you very much, Fred Katayama in Washington today.

Other news tonight, Paul Hill said he would die a martyr. Tonight, the anti-abortion activist turned anti-abortion terrorist got his wish. He was executed in Florida for two murders he committed, a doctor who performed abortions and his security escort.

He has been shunned Mr. Hill has, by most of the anti-abortion movement. An anti-abortion governor in Florida refused to grant clemency. So, Paul Hill is dead tonight, the first person ever executed for an abortion related murder.

Here's CNN's Brian Cabell.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CABELL (voice-over): It didn't take long. Six minutes after three chemicals flowed into Paul Hill's body he was declared dead in Florida's death chamber.

He gave a brief statement as he lay on a gurney, strapped in face up. He said: "If you believe abortion is a lethal force you should oppose the force. Do what you have to do to stop it. May God help you to protect the unborn as you would want to be protected."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The ultimate sacrifice that he is making for each one of us...

CABELL: Outside across from the prison about 40 protesters gathered, most of them opponents of abortion and supporters of Hill. Some said his crime, a double murder, was nothing more than justifiable homicide.

REV. MICHAEL BRAY, PROTESTOR: It's just like out soldiers, you know hate to shoot those Iraqi men. They don't necessarily like to shoot them but they know they've got a job to do and this was a job to do.

CABELL: Security around the prison was extremely high all day. There was concern because last month four Florida officials, including the state attorney general, received threatening letters with references to the Hill case. Women's clinics around the nation are on alert as well.

MONA REIS, WOMEN'S HEALTH CENTER DIRECTOR: We continue to never disregard the possibility that this could happen and we have to continue forward in the work that we do that we believe so strongly in. CABELL: Hill, a former Presbyterian minister, shot and killed a doctor who provided abortions and a bodyguard nine years ago in Pensacola. He admitted the shootings, called it his duty as a Christian. He left behind a wife and three children whom he said on Tuesday he had prepared for his death.

PAUL HILL: I would explain to them that I did what I thought was a responsible thing and that it has caused them a great loss and I'm just trusting the Lord will console them.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABELL: I was a witness to the execution, the first time I've ever done anything like that and, I suspect, probably the last time I'll do that, although this certainly seems much more humane than the electric chair.

What we saw was Paul Hill lying on his back strapped in when we arrived. The chemicals were injected. We saw him gulp a couple of times. We saw him exhale, wet his lips, then close his eyes.

About five minutes later when there was no movement one doctor came in with a stethoscope, checked him, left the room and then a second doctor came in, did exactly the same thing, nodded to the warden and that was it -- Aaron.

BROWN: Brian, thank you, Brian Cabell in north Florida tonight.

On now to the California recall. Last night on the program, Arnold Schwarzenegger's co-campaign chairman defended the candidate's decision to participate in only one debate, a debate where the candidates will receive the questions in advance by days.

Today, Congressman David Dreier and the candidate did a flip flop on that saying they should not see the questions in advance. They will anyway because those are the rules of the only debate they've accepted. One they didn't accept was held today, the first in a series.

Here's CNN's Kelly Wallace.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WALLACE: Steering clear of the first debate but not some opponents, Arnold Schwarzenegger gets egged as he makes his way through a throng of college students in southern California and later tries to shrug it off with a joke.

ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER (R), GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: Well, this guy owes me bacon now. I mean there's no two ways about it because, I mean, you can't just have eggs without bacon.

WALLACE: But this was unfamiliar territory for the actor turned candidate.

SCHWARZENEGGER: (Unintelligible.) WALLACE: Competing with a handful of protesters during a stump speech this as Schwarzenegger continues to face criticism for choosing to participate in only one debate, the one where candidates will get the questions in advance.

Hoping to silence some of the critics the Schwarzenegger camp in a letter Wednesday asked the California Broadcasters Association not to release questions ahead of time. The organization refused and Schwarzenegger defended his decision.

SCHWARZENEGGER: They will see me in a debate. They will see me with all the other people. I will be available for that. In the meantime, I will be traveling up and down the state.

WALLACE: But he chose not to travel to northern California where the top five candidates in the recall race squared off in the first debate. Most of the 90 minutes focused on taxes.

HOWARD DEAN (R), GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: I am the one candidate who has taken the no tax pledge. I will not raise taxes.

WALLACE: And the budget deficit.

PETER UEBERROTH (R), GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: We won't succeed if we don't stop it and balance the budget.

WALLACE: Schwarzenegger's name hardly came up. The Democrat on the panel alluded to the no show.

LT. GOV. CRUZ BUSTAMANTE (D), GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: My option here is to distinguish myself with my ideas against those folks who are here and the guys who's not.

WALLACE: Earlier, Governor Gray Davis who is fighting to hold onto his job took the stage by himself and tried to show a more personal side.

GOV. GRAY DAVIS (D), CALIFORNIA: I've gotten their message. I know they're angry. This has been a humbling experience but I also know they want me to fight for their future so I have specific things I want to get done.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WALLACE: And following that appearance, Davis pounced on Schwarzenegger telling reporters that if you have never run or never held political office the least you could do is "show up and answer people's questions."

The key question right now will Schwarzenegger's absence from tonight's debate hurt him with some voters? Political observers say they just don't know. They say, Aaron, you just can't know anything for sure in this very crazy race -- Aaron.

BROWN: Well, it's an interesting calculation and we'll figure it out at some point. The polls have been kind of flopping around. Give us your best sense of where they are tonight.

WALLACE: Well, that's the key question too because we really haven't seen a poll for a little more than a week now. The most recent one was that "L.A. Times" poll in late August which showed this recall race very, very tight that Californians were saying they were really divided over whether Gray Davis should be ousted from office.

Right now the Davis folks think the momentum is on their side. Schwarzenegger's aides, though, say he is going to get out and be with voters almost every day from here on out and they're hoping every day he is before the cameras that helps him with voters -- Aaron.

BROWN: Kelly, thank you. I've never known a candidate who didn't say the momentum was on their side. Thank you very much.

As the campaign unfolds, we've talked to all the major candidates, at least those who accept our invitation. We're pleased to be joined tonight by Peter Ueberroth who took part in tonight's debate, nice to see you sir. Welcome to the program.

UEBERROTH: Thanks, Aaron.

BROWN: Were you pleased, just very briefly, were you pleased that you got to say the things you wanted to say tonight in the way that you wanted to say them?

UEBERROTH: Not really. I was the rookie. I mean as people have been, in Sacramento have been talking the same things for decades frankly, people that served in office for two decades and they have a pat speech.

But I was a little disappointed we didn't get to the real -- the real things about the recall and it's simply that California's budget is terrible and we're leading the state into the wrong direction and we need to attract jobs.

We have to do that. We have to get out and change California to become a job friendly state, so we didn't have those things and mainly talked about all kinds of social issues and that's not why I'm running for governor but I'm getting better at this and I'm going to learn and it will be fun.

BROWN: I'll be interested to know if you find it fun 30 days from now. I hope you do.

UEBERROTH: I think I will.

BROWN: Will you ask, are you asking Californians to sacrifice?

UEBERROTH: Absolutely, they got to -- we've had a spending binge that's been crazy. Now we have to pull in the belt. We have to stop the spending and we're going to have to suffer a little bit.

When any family spends too much money they've got to adjust and any company has to do the same, yours or mine. So, I think we're going to have to suffer a little bit in California so we're not the worst, we're not junk bond status that we start to do things right.

BROWN: Let's talk about then where the sacrifice comes from. A huge part of any state's budget, this is particularly true in California, goes to just a couple of areas, education K-12 and higher education, criminal justice, as is particularly true in California where prisons really were the growth industry of the early mid-'90s. Do you plan on making cuts in either of those areas?

UEBERROTH: Well, basically in education it's mandated for a certain amount of money but all I'll do very quickly is I'll take the waste out and put it in the classroom. So, the classroom will look like it has a lot more money and it will have a lot more money to teach kids and that's what California is all about but everything else is going to be, healthcare, everything, it's going to be pull in the budget, pull in the belt. It's going to be a little bit of a tough time until we get ready to recover.

BROWN: So, criminal justice is on the cutting block.

UEBERROTH: Sure.

BROWN: Healthcare is on the cutting block. There are no sacred cows out there.

UEBERROTH: No sacred cows, but the good news is we had this huge increase in spending. It's in there and we'll be able to remove the waste, remove the bureaucracy and we'll remove some fraud. So, our system isn't working. I'll call all the legislators in. We'll lock them in a room. We'll get a budget and then we got to get back to being the best place to work in the whole United States.

BROWN: You've said a number of times and it's an interesting thing to say I think that as the election draws closer you believe that Californians will really approach this with great seriousness. These are great and important issues and as they get serious about it you're going to look a whole lot better to them. How do you push them along because the polling we've seen doesn't show you...

UEBERROTH: There's no poll. You know the only poll is a couple of weeks old now and I wasn't even in the race so we'll have to see how the polls come out but I'm comfortable and confident that by the time we get five weeks from now and the voter gets in the booth they're going to say who can run the state for this little three year period to get it turned around?

Who can balance the budget and who can be job friendly again? I mean we're 50th in credit rating, 49th in being job friendly, and you know all your listeners and viewers we're losing to those states and that will be over. We're going to start being competitive again in California.

BROWN: Half a minute.

UEBERROTH: When the din disappears and all the noise disappears there's going to be enough voters who are going to get in that voting booth and say we've got to find somebody that can fix this and that's my history. I've come in when people said you couldn't do something, whether at the Olympic games or after the riots, I get Democrats and Republicans in the room and we do something that's good for California.

BROWN: We tend to do these interviews in four minute bursts. I'd like another four.

UEBERROTH: That's right.

BROWN: I hope you'll come back and join us again.

UEBERROTH: I'd be pleased to. Thank you.

BROWN: Thank you, sir, very much, Peter Ueberroth in California tonight.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, cleaning up post-war Iraq, does the United States need help from the rest of the world? Did the Pentagon underestimate the difficulty?

And later in this hour, we talk with filmmaker Rick Burns about his new work on the World Trade Center, why it was built, what it meant, why the towers fell?

A long way to go tonight, this is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Now, on to the Bush administration's decision to ask the United Nations for military help in Iraq. Depending on who's talking, this is either a much belated recognition of reality, a premature retreat, or nothing more than fine tuning of an already sound plan.

It did seem at times today there was enough spin out there to make a guy dizzy. Whatever it is, whatever it means we'll leave for you to decide.

What the administration plans we'll leave for Andrea Koppel to explain.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Iraq, a coalition force led by Poland assumed full control of five provinces from U.S. Marines, a rare handover which could become more common now that President Bush has changed course instructing Secretary of State Powell to seek help from the U.N., the U.S. now proposing a new U.N. resolution authorizing a multinational force for Iraq which would report to the U.N. but would still be under U.S. command.

COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: And we hope that with this additional demonstration of the will of the international community it will encourage more countries or make it easier for some countries who are looking at the prospects now to make such a contribution. KOPPEL: Countries like India, Pakistan, and Turkey with large professional militaries eager to help but unwilling to commit troops without the political cover of a U.N. mandate.

Also at the heart of this draft resolution an enhanced political role for the U.N. encouraging it to work with the Iraqi governing council as it leads the Iraqi people toward free elections.

POWELL: Many people have asked us for a political horizon and this resolution is a way of creating such a political horizon and demonstrating how to get to that horizon by inviting, who, the Iraqis.

KOPPEL: But it remains to be seen whether the limited political role for the U.N., proposed by the U.S., will be enough to satisfy key countries like France, a veto bearing member of the Security Council.

POWELL: Certainly the United States will continue to play a dominant role, dominant political role through the work of Ambassador Bremer and his coalition colleagues and the dominant role because of the size of the U.S. force presence that is there and the leadership we are providing to the effort.

KOPPEL (on camera): In an attempt to win over some of the skeptics, Powell worked the phones calling counterparts in France, Germany, and Russian and while he suggested that the initial response was positive he also indicated that he was bracing for some intense negotiations in the days ahead.

Andrea Koppel CNN at the State Department.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Now to the planning that got us to where we are tonight. Ever since the Army chief of staff raised questions earlier in the year about the size of the force needed to occupy Iraq there have been doubts. Increasingly, the doubts have been coming from former members of the administration.

Tonight, CNN's Jamie McIntyre has learned the particulars of a classified Pentagon study calling the war planning flawed and rushed -- Jamie.

MCINTYRE: Well, Aaron, with criticism of the U.S. military planning for post-war Iraq now coming from inside the Pentagon, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is on his way to the region for a firsthand look.

The trip wasn't announced in advance and his precise itinerary is being held for security reasons but just before landing at a refueling stop in Ireland, Rumsfeld told reporters traveling with him that the move to get U.N. troops to join the U.S. in Iraq was nothing new and, when one reporter implied the current force wasn't multinational, he immediately felt the infamous wrath of Rumsfeld.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: What do you mean? I just said there's 29 countries there now and I just said the Polish division just took over and yet I keep hearing questions like that that come to my head and I can't believe people are saying it.

They say why don't you internationalize it? Why do you go it alone? We're not going it alone. We've got 29 countries involved. One of the divisions was just taken over this week by the Poles with 17 countries in it. Think of it. Now, start over.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCINTYRE: But Rumsfeld is under fire from a number of quarters. An internal Joint Chiefs of Staff report faults the post-war planning process. It says the Pentagon waited too long to get organized so plans were rushed and inadequate.

And this from Tom White, the Army secretary who Rumsfeld fired last April: "It is quite clear" he writes in a new book "the plan for winning the peace is totally inadequate" and that the plans "ignored the harsh realities on the ground."

Rumsfeld insists great progress is being made and called it an impressive accomplishment that there are now 60,000 Iraqis helping to provide security. That, he insists, is what U.S. commanders believe is the key to restoring peace not sending more American troops.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUMSFELD: Their judgment at the present time is that they do not need additional U.S. forces in Iraq. Now, there are some people who suggest that they're wrong. I think they're right and I'm not resisting anything. I'm simply repeating what he senior military leadership, General Abizaid on up that that's their best professional judgment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCINTYRE: Rumsfeld better hope they're right because a new congressional budget analysis concludes: "The active Army would be unable to sustain an occupation force of the present size beyond about March, 2004 if it chose not to keep individual units deployed to Iraq for longer than one year without relief."

In other words, the U.S. could maintain current force levels but only by using more Marines, Guard and Reserve units, or extending tours longer than a year, all moral busting options the Pentagon would like to avoid -- Aaron.

BROWN: Jamie, thank you, Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon tonight. Thank you.

We're joined from Washington tonight by Robin Wright of the "Los Angeles Times," chief diplomatic correspondent for the paper, always glad to have her with us and we are tonight, Robin, nice to see you. To the U.N. issue, what is the -- this is a negotiation. We've been -- it's like Groundhog Day in some respects. We've been through this negotiation with these countries before. What is the United States preparing to give up?

ROBIN WRIGHT, "LOS ANGELES TIMES": Well, the United States is seeking a partnership but it is clearly playing or asking for the dominant role. The U.N. would play a role both in security in providing troops to protect the Iraqi governing council, the new body formed to help the transition political process as well as humanitarian organizations and the United Nations presence, particularly vulnerable in the aftermath of a bombing last month that killed its top U.N. representative and several others.

This is a mechanism also to get the governing council to begin looking at the transition, the political transition, which is one of the stipulations of key U.N. members, such as France, who have put down pretty tough terms to participate or to vote for this resolution.

BROWN: Tough terms, for example, he said?

WRIGHT: Well, particularly demanding that this not just simply be an enlargement of the current force, that any country that participates will have a role and that the United States, even though it will lead the force, will report on a regular basis its progress and its status in Iraq and its plans for transition.

BROWN: Now, the administration, the White House said today this really isn't a change in plan. This is just essentially the maturation of a plan that was already in place. Is that believable?

WRIGHT: No. The fact is the administration has recognized, faced with mounting costs and mounting casualties, that it can no longer have the coalition alone carry the burden, that this is an increasingly complicated and dangerous mission including many dangers that the United States did not foresee and it's looking for a mechanism to widen the responsibility and to lessen its own role and vulnerability.

BROWN: How does internationalizing the force or bringing the U.N. into the force, how does that make the security situation better?

WRIGHT: Well, it looks like it's not just the United States that's standing there or perhaps the west. The United States is particularly hopeful that, for example, Muslim countries, Pakistan, Bangladesh possibly, Turkey, will send troops so it also doesn't look like it's just, you know, western countries but it's also Islamic countries that have given this operation a stamp of approval. If it is the world involved in Iraq, then it looks like it has far greater legitimacy.

BROWN: This may be unfair, but given particularly the guerrilla forces that are at play, the al Qaeda affiliates and the like, are they actually going to care very much whether it's the French, the Pakistanis or anyone else who is occupying Iraq? WRIGHT: Possibly not. It's a little hard to tell, because we don't really know who all the parties are that are responsible for the attacks.

But if you bring more parties into the security and political transition, then you also get greater outrage when there are attacks and perhaps get the kind of clampdowns that the United States is hoping, be it from the neighbors of Iraq or from other countries that may be able to take actions.

BROWN: And, finally, is there, on the other side of this -- on the French and the Germans and the Russians and the rest, is there at least some recognition that failing to successfully deal with postwar Iraq has enormous ramifications for the region and beyond?

WRIGHT: Absolutely.

That's the critical deciding factor in how this vote will play out in the next two or three weeks. Whatever the animosity or tension between some of the U.N. allies and the United States, there is a recognition that Iraq is probably the most important conflict to ensure there's some kind of stability and transition peacefully, quickly, than anything since the end of the Cold War. The stakes are enormous, not just in Iraq, but in all the oil-rich neighboring countries, as well as in the broader Middle East, a body of countries stretching from Morocco all the way to Iran.

BROWN: Robin, as always, thank you -- Robin Wright of "The Los Angeles Times."

WRIGHT: Thank you.

BROWN: Thank you very much.

Coming up on NEWSNIGHT: an important ruling in the Moussaoui case and some dramatic details of what the judge thinks of the government's case against him.

A break first. From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Already planning our special coverage of the asteroid.

On we go. From the moment of Justice Department announced it would try Zacarias Moussaoui in civilian court, legal experts have wondered how such a trial could possibly come to pass. The answer, not surprisingly, turns out, not so well. The government has always reserved the option of bringing Mr. Moussaoui before a military tribunal. Ultimately, it may have to go through that route, especially after a series of recent rulings from the judge.

Here's CNN's Kelli Arena.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The judge in the case against accused terrorist Zacarias Moussaoui says, information from top al Qaeda operatives supports Moussaoui's claims that he was not involved in the September 11 attacks.

In court papers just unsealed, Judge Leonie Brinkema writes, the information -- quote -- "supports the claim that Moussaoui was not part of the September 11 plot, because the defendant was in the United States at the time, but was not contacted."

This is the first time the judge has clearly laid out what al Qaeda detainees have told interrogators. As CNN first reported Friday, the judge granted Moussaoui access to self-proclaimed September 11 mastermind Khalid Shaikh Mohammed and alleged al Qaeda financier Mustafa al-Hawsawi for his defense. Both are in U.S. custody.

Sources have told CNN Mohammed told interrogators that Moussaoui was not intended for the September 11 attacks. And in open court, while pledging allegiance to Osama bin Laden, Moussaoui said his was tapped for another al Qaeda operation after 9/11 outside the United States.

FRANK DUNHAM, MOUSSAOUI STANDBY COUNSEL: In a death penalty case, a defendant really ought to have the right to present witnesses on his own behalf. That's the argument in a nutshell.

ARENA: Moussaoui has won on this issue before. Judge Brinkema ruled the government had to allow access to al Qaeda operative Ramzi Binalshibh , who also allegedly has information that could clear Moussaoui of any involvement in 9/11. But the government refused, claiming individuals caught on the battlefield and held overseas are outside the court's jurisdiction.

MICHAEL CHERTOFF, FORMER ASST. ATTORNEY GENERAL: The government said Moussaoui therefore is -- you cannot assume that there's an unlimited right of access.

ARENA: The next big move in this case is for Brinkema to decide how to sanction the government for defying the court. Legal experts say they expect Brinkema may go so far as to dismiss the government's case against Moussaoui, at which point the government is expected to take the issue to a higher court.

(on camera): It is also expected that, if the government continues to lose on this issue, Moussaoui will eventually be declared an enemy combatant and placed in military custody.

Kelli Arena, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Still to come on NEWSNIGHT: the empty bed, the story of one dead soldier, the men he served with, and the capture of a man who may have been his killer -- that and more.

This is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Well, Iraq and beyond now, some Afghanistan casualties as well. We've been doing this now for a few weeks, showing you the names of Americans who have died in Iraq, now Afghanistan. While that's a small nod towards remembering their sacrifices, it hardly conveys a sense who these people were and what they meant to all of those around them.

We hope our next story does that, at least in a small way. It's the story of one man, Sergeant Steven White, and his friends and the aftermath of his death on August 13.

It's reported for us tonight by CNN's Jason Bellini.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SPEC. JOE HERNANDEZ, U.S. ARMY: I was actually out there when it happened. So I saw everything happen.

JASON BELLINI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): What specialist Joe Hernandez, a mechanic, saw happen two weeks ago was, his colleague, his mentor, his friend, Sergeant Steven White, die in an explosion set off by an anti-tank mine in the road.

HERNANDEZ: I started crying. I was on the side of road patrolling the perimeter, crying.

BELLINI: Sergeant White was also his roommate.

HERNANDEZ: And his cot was right there. He slept right there, actually.

BELLINI: All White's personal belongings were sent home to his parents, but they received no word who killed their son. The U.S. Army, at that point, had no idea.

HERNANDEZ: Wake up next to somebody one day, and then the next day not there no more -- I sleep with my light on, still. I'm 23 years old and I'm sleeping with my light on at night, because I'm scared.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, let's go, go, go, go, go. Get out! Get out! Push them out! Push them out!

BELLINI: Then Sergeant White's battalion got a tip from a human source, one who they say has been reliable in the past.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gentlemen, on your knees.

BELLINI: That this was the man who planted the mine.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's go ahead and search that apartment. We've got our guy. BELLINI: The battalion commanders told his soldiers to treat this like any other raid and any other search for weapons and evidence. They found none.

LT. COL. POMPELLIOT, U.S. ARMY: I don't take it personal that it was one of my soldiers, although it does affect me. But any time a U.S. soldier is attacked, it's a serious issue that we take.

BELLINI: Sergeant White's commanders say they're confident they got the right man. If Army interrogators agree, he'll by imprisoned indefinitely.

(on camera): If he is indeed is the one who is responsible, if he's found to be one, does it make a difference to you that they caught the person?

HERNANDEZ: Yes, it brings kind of -- it's kind of a relief and it kind of makes you feel that the system works, if you can find them. If it truly is the guy, then we must be doing something right to be able to locate someone in a country of this size with this many people.

BELLINI: Does it make you feel any safer?

HERNANDEZ: No.

BELLINI (voice-over): Jason Bellini, CNN, Tikrit, Iraq.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Amazing how much of the program is all tied to events that seem to begin on September 11 two years ago, including the next one, the rise and falling and the meaning of the World Trade Center. It's part of a new film by Ric Burns. Mr. Burns joins us.

Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Over the next several days, as we approach the second anniversary of the attack on 9/11, all of us are going to spend some time thinking about the World Trade Center, the towers. You don't have to live here in New York to think about them or to miss them and what their destruction represented.

The Twin Towers inspired many, some to poetry and feats of skill, others to hatred. They weren't always loved. The story of their construction and their meaning are the subject of a new Ric Burns film, the eighth episode of his extraordinary documentary on New York City called "The Center of the World."

And here's a brief clip.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE CENTER OF THE WORLD")

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Who's afraid of the big bad buildings? Everyone. Because there are so many things about gigantism that we just don't know. The gamble of triumph or tragedy at this scale -- and, ultimately, it is a gamble -- demands an extraordinary payoff. The Trade Center towers could be the start of a new skyscraper age or the biggest tombstones in the world" Ada Louise Huxtable, 1966.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Strange to see. And Ric Burns is here, keeping in our tradition of having one member of the Burns family on every quarter or so.

It's nice to see you.

RIC BURNS, DOCUMENTARIAN: It's good to be here.

BROWN: When you look at them now, when you see the pictures of them, do you see it differently? Do you see those two buildings differently?

BURNS: Oh, boy, how can we not?

They are like a phantom limb. They're in our minds. They're in our hearts. And we look to the skyline of New York every day, those of us who live here. And we keep looking for them. And we're not going to find them. And it's a big, big hole.

BROWN: I'm amazed that -- when I'm flying back into the city from wherever, there's a flight path that basically comes up the island of Manhattan, and you expect to see them. Two years later, you still expect to see them.

It's -- the towers, in their demise, obviously, rich in symbolism, but at their beginning were as rich in symbolism of a totally different sort.

BURNS: That's absolutely the case.

What 9/11 really revealed was that we had been ignoring a story that was really hiding in plain sight. Those were like the purloined buildings. They were the most visible building on the New York skyline. But because they were so controversial on their way up, people really didn't pay attention to the story behind them. And it wasn't until 9/11 that people stopped to say, you know what? These buildings were the most iconic structures on the New York skyline and that there was a powerful story that had a lot to do with what was shaping New York and shaping the nation and shaping America in that astonishing 50-year period after the Second World War.

BROWN: It's a great, in some ways, I think, New York story, in the sense that it is part outsized ego to even imagine building them of the players at the time. And it certainly made New York, symbolically, at least, the capital of the world.

BURNS: No question about it.

And I think part of our motive was to remind people, the World Trade Center was not about two planes going into the buildings and the collapse. It was about David Rockefeller's obsession to save Lower Manhattan, one of the biggest real estate gambles in the history of the city. It was about people like Leslie Robertson, the chief engineer, Minoru Yamasaki. It was about Philippe Petit, this extraordinary Frenchman who became obsessed with them before they were even built, saw a picture of a model of them in a French magazine in 1968 and determined that he was going to walk between them, walk on air between them, which he did in 1974.

So it was an astonishing story from the very beginning. And there was evening going against them. They were the least likely buildings in the world ever to be built. There's so much inertia in a city like New York, so many things you have to clear out of the way. If you want to build a parking lot, it's tough to do. This was not a parking lot. This was the two tallest buildings in the world, 16 acres in the densest, most crowded metropolitan region in the world. It was extraordinary they ever got off the ground.

BROWN: Now, two years ago, where was the project?

BURNS: It was nowhere. We thought we had finished our decade- long work on the city of New York, meaning we had done a 14 1/2-half film and thought we were done.

And I was sitting in my office when the planes went into the building. And we knew pretty quickly that we had, like most people, missed the boat on this extraordinary story. This isn't just the story of any old building. These are buildings that meant more, I think, than any other structure in the second half the 20th century. And somehow, people had just ignored them. We forgot how hated they were.

BROWN: Hated when they went up. It's no accident that the terrorists chose them. They were symbolic of the country.

BURNS: Of the country. They were the buildings that represented New York. And New York, as far as they were concerned, represented the country. That meant they represented globalization, modernization, diversity, a capitalist society, a strivingly upwardly mobile society.

BROWN: The piece airs Monday night on public broadcasting.

It's good to see you again.

BURNS: Good to see you.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Good luck with it.

BURNS: Thanks for having me.

BROWN: I look forward to seeing it. Thank you.

Morning papers are next. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(ROOSTER CROWING)

BROWN: Well, you know what that sounds means. It means 2.5 minutes still to go in the program.

Time to check morning papers from around the country and around the world. We begin with "The San Francisco Chronicle," because it's on top tonight. "Front-Runners Blasted in Debate" is the headline, the first debate, which was held late in the afternoon out in California. You think, if it was a big election, they would hold it at night, prime time, but that's not what they did. And also, "State Urged to Shut Campaign Loophole." Campaign contributions are becoming a big issue, both for Lieutenant Governor Bustamante and Mr. Schwarzenegger, who said he wasn't going to take special interest money, but has. That happens sometimes in politics.

"The Miami Herald" leads with the execution of Paul Hill. "Hill Unrepentant to the End. Killer of Abortion Doctor Dies by Injection," very straightforward headline. Also on the front page, "Joy of Grammy Winner," the Latin Grammys held in Los Angeles -- Los Angeles -- in Miami. Some controversy about that, too, over Cuban artists and whether they were granted visas in time and all that sort of nastiness going on.

The Detroit papers are terrific today. We kid a lot about car stories and the like, but they're good ones. "Detroit Free Press" begins it. "Toyota Outsells Chrysler in August. Japanese Company Sets Record. Total Auto Sales Best Since 2001." That's a pretty big story, right? I think so.

And where's the other one, "The Detroit News"? I have it here. How much time?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fifty-seven.

BROWN: Oh, plenty of time.

"The Detroit News." Big football story, by the way, on the front page. "The Detroit Lions" are going to have a great year. They got a new coach. No, they're not going to have a great year, but they'll be OK. "Big Three Share Hits Record Low." It's all in the punctuation sometimes, and there isn't any here. "Winners Asian Gain Ground on Detroit." Same story, slightly different take on it, though. But, obviously, the automakers struggling a little bit against foreign competition.

"The Chicago Sun-Times." I don't know why this is a story today, but it's a good story, and we like the paper. "Got a" -- excuse me. What was that? "Got a Tax Question? Don't Ask the IRS. Report Finds Agency Workers Got 43 Percent of Inquiries Wrong." Look, it's complicated. You can't expect them to get it all right.

Oh, by the way, the weather -- how much time?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's five.

BROWN: Oh, my goodness. Off the hook is the weather in Chicago.

We're off the hook, too. And we're off the air. We'll see you tomorrow, 10:00 Eastern time.

Until then, good night for all of us at NEWSNIGHT.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired September 3, 2003 - 22:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again everyone.
We have wondered more than once what it must have been like for the people who manage the East Coast power grid when they realized what was going on last month when they looked at their dials or their computer screens when they saw green turn to red or whatever it was those dials did in those few fateful seconds.

What did they think? What did they say? It is I suppose a bit like rubbernecking, slowing down to take a good look at a train wreck. It is irresistible. In this case it is also instructive, which is more than you can say about the train wreck.

Tonight for the first time we know what was going on, at least a bit of it, and a bit of what was said and that's where we begin the whip. CNN's Fred Katayama starts us off with a headline tonight -- Fred.

FRED KATAYAMA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, we just received transcripts tonight of a phone conversation featuring technicians at an Ohio utility that was taped an hour before the big blackout began on August 14th. Confusion, chaos, and anxiety filled the control room -- Aaron.

BROWN: Fred, thank you, back to you at the top tonight.

Next stop, Starke, Florida, the execution of a self professed martyr, a zealot to be sure, CNN's Brian Cabell is at the prison and has the headline -- Brian.

BRIAN CABELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, there was no reprieve. There was no stay granted in Florida today. Paul Hill uttered his last words calling on others to take up his cause against abortion and then he died -- Aaron.

BROWN: Brian, thank you.

In Los Angeles, the debate and the candidate who did not take part, CNN's Kelly Wallace on that, Kelly a headline from you tonight.

KELLY WALLACE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, it was the first debate of this recall race and the Republican frontrunner, Arnold Schwarzenegger, chose to stay away and give a speech to college students instead but there he encountered some unfamiliar territory. He was even pelted with an egg -- Aaron.

BROWN: Kelly, thank you.

And, from the Pentagon and a secret report on the planning or lack of planning for the war's aftermath, our Chief Pentagon Correspondent Jamie McIntyre has been doing the digging there, Jamie give us a headline.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, with criticism of the Pentagon planning from post-war Iraq growing, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is headed to the region for a firsthand look and when a reporter on Rumsfeld's plane suggested that the U.S.-led coalition force wasn't multinational he just about got his head handed to him -- Aaron.

BROWN: Jamie, thank you, we'll get back to you and the rest shortly.

Also coming up on the program tonight a soldier's story, the soldier, the buddy he lost and his search for the bomber who took his buddy's life, the new normal in Iraq.

Also tonight, filmmaker Rick Burns whose documentary on New York went unfinished two years ago. Tonight he joins us to talk about the final installment, the World Trade Center.

And, what program would be complete without a look at tomorrow's headlines tonight? Some other program I guess but not ours, morning papers too, all that to come in the hour ahead.

We begin tonight with the great blackout of 2003. Needless to say when the lights went out on that Thursday afternoon it resulted in a great deal of confusion, not only among those who lost power but also for the people watching over the power grid.

Tonight, we get a sense of what it was like inside the control room of an Ohio power control center as the cascading event spun out of control as the blackout began and spread across the northeast.

It seems that these days everything is recorded and late today several hundred pages of transcripts from control room recordings were released during congressional hearings into the mess.

So, we begin with CNN's Fred Katayama.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KATAYAMA (voice-over): Confusion and anxiety rocked the control room of an Ohio utility in the last hour before the start of the biggest blackout in the nation's history. Transcripts of phone conversations released by a congressional committee reveal that some engineers at the utility, First Energy, didn't have a clue as to what happened.

The group that monitors the power grid in the Midwest, known as MISO, calls a worker identified as Jerry Snickey (ph) of First Energy:

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I wonder what's going on here. Something strange is happening."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "We have no idea what happened. You guys have anything going on?"

KATAYAMA: Don Hunter of MISO explained he called because he saw a transmission line go out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "Now I called you guys a bit ago to find out what was going on because I saw..."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "We have no clue. Our computer is giving us fits too. We don't even know the status of some of the stuff around us."

KATAYAMA: Moments later, MISO gets antsy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I called you guys like ten minutes ago and I thought you were figuring out what was going on there."

FIRST ENERGY: "Well, we're trying to. Our computer is not happy. It's not cooperating either."

KAYAYAMA: The anxious exchanges captured in the 650 pages of transcripts that MISO provided to the House Energy and Commerce Committee, a committee spokesman said confusion was not limited to just First Energy.

The news of the chaos came at the end of day one of the two day hearings looking into why the lights went out on August 14. At the hearing, Michigan Governor Jennifer Granholm blamed Ohio utilities for failing to warn energy firms in her state.

GOV. JENNIFER GRANHOLM, MICHIGAN: Nothing happened. In the best of all possible worlds we would have a command and control system where it would be -- clearly notification would be given to states, to connected grids, to connected entities that a problem was occurring.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KATAYAMA: A First Energy spokesperson told CNN clearly events began happening so quickly that it was difficult to respond. She added that it's part of an internal investigation that the company is conducting.

Now, the release of these documents comes just one day before company chairman Peter Berg (ph) is to testify before the House committee. He had earlier told committee investigators not to focus on a single event as the cause -- Aaron.

BROWN: Are we at all closer, really closer to knowing what happened?

KATAYAMA: We aren't, Aaron. I was at the hearings all day and we heard a lot of explanations but still none of the people testifying at the committee could say this is what happened. Spencer Abraham, the Energy Secretary, said that they're right now going through 10,000 events that occurred in a nine second period and that he refrained saying that he was not going to speculate on what was the cause. The cause that's being studied by the U.S.- Canadian joint committee still has not been determined.

BROWN: Fred, thank you very much, Fred Katayama in Washington today.

Other news tonight, Paul Hill said he would die a martyr. Tonight, the anti-abortion activist turned anti-abortion terrorist got his wish. He was executed in Florida for two murders he committed, a doctor who performed abortions and his security escort.

He has been shunned Mr. Hill has, by most of the anti-abortion movement. An anti-abortion governor in Florida refused to grant clemency. So, Paul Hill is dead tonight, the first person ever executed for an abortion related murder.

Here's CNN's Brian Cabell.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CABELL (voice-over): It didn't take long. Six minutes after three chemicals flowed into Paul Hill's body he was declared dead in Florida's death chamber.

He gave a brief statement as he lay on a gurney, strapped in face up. He said: "If you believe abortion is a lethal force you should oppose the force. Do what you have to do to stop it. May God help you to protect the unborn as you would want to be protected."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The ultimate sacrifice that he is making for each one of us...

CABELL: Outside across from the prison about 40 protesters gathered, most of them opponents of abortion and supporters of Hill. Some said his crime, a double murder, was nothing more than justifiable homicide.

REV. MICHAEL BRAY, PROTESTOR: It's just like out soldiers, you know hate to shoot those Iraqi men. They don't necessarily like to shoot them but they know they've got a job to do and this was a job to do.

CABELL: Security around the prison was extremely high all day. There was concern because last month four Florida officials, including the state attorney general, received threatening letters with references to the Hill case. Women's clinics around the nation are on alert as well.

MONA REIS, WOMEN'S HEALTH CENTER DIRECTOR: We continue to never disregard the possibility that this could happen and we have to continue forward in the work that we do that we believe so strongly in. CABELL: Hill, a former Presbyterian minister, shot and killed a doctor who provided abortions and a bodyguard nine years ago in Pensacola. He admitted the shootings, called it his duty as a Christian. He left behind a wife and three children whom he said on Tuesday he had prepared for his death.

PAUL HILL: I would explain to them that I did what I thought was a responsible thing and that it has caused them a great loss and I'm just trusting the Lord will console them.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABELL: I was a witness to the execution, the first time I've ever done anything like that and, I suspect, probably the last time I'll do that, although this certainly seems much more humane than the electric chair.

What we saw was Paul Hill lying on his back strapped in when we arrived. The chemicals were injected. We saw him gulp a couple of times. We saw him exhale, wet his lips, then close his eyes.

About five minutes later when there was no movement one doctor came in with a stethoscope, checked him, left the room and then a second doctor came in, did exactly the same thing, nodded to the warden and that was it -- Aaron.

BROWN: Brian, thank you, Brian Cabell in north Florida tonight.

On now to the California recall. Last night on the program, Arnold Schwarzenegger's co-campaign chairman defended the candidate's decision to participate in only one debate, a debate where the candidates will receive the questions in advance by days.

Today, Congressman David Dreier and the candidate did a flip flop on that saying they should not see the questions in advance. They will anyway because those are the rules of the only debate they've accepted. One they didn't accept was held today, the first in a series.

Here's CNN's Kelly Wallace.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WALLACE: Steering clear of the first debate but not some opponents, Arnold Schwarzenegger gets egged as he makes his way through a throng of college students in southern California and later tries to shrug it off with a joke.

ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER (R), GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: Well, this guy owes me bacon now. I mean there's no two ways about it because, I mean, you can't just have eggs without bacon.

WALLACE: But this was unfamiliar territory for the actor turned candidate.

SCHWARZENEGGER: (Unintelligible.) WALLACE: Competing with a handful of protesters during a stump speech this as Schwarzenegger continues to face criticism for choosing to participate in only one debate, the one where candidates will get the questions in advance.

Hoping to silence some of the critics the Schwarzenegger camp in a letter Wednesday asked the California Broadcasters Association not to release questions ahead of time. The organization refused and Schwarzenegger defended his decision.

SCHWARZENEGGER: They will see me in a debate. They will see me with all the other people. I will be available for that. In the meantime, I will be traveling up and down the state.

WALLACE: But he chose not to travel to northern California where the top five candidates in the recall race squared off in the first debate. Most of the 90 minutes focused on taxes.

HOWARD DEAN (R), GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: I am the one candidate who has taken the no tax pledge. I will not raise taxes.

WALLACE: And the budget deficit.

PETER UEBERROTH (R), GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: We won't succeed if we don't stop it and balance the budget.

WALLACE: Schwarzenegger's name hardly came up. The Democrat on the panel alluded to the no show.

LT. GOV. CRUZ BUSTAMANTE (D), GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: My option here is to distinguish myself with my ideas against those folks who are here and the guys who's not.

WALLACE: Earlier, Governor Gray Davis who is fighting to hold onto his job took the stage by himself and tried to show a more personal side.

GOV. GRAY DAVIS (D), CALIFORNIA: I've gotten their message. I know they're angry. This has been a humbling experience but I also know they want me to fight for their future so I have specific things I want to get done.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WALLACE: And following that appearance, Davis pounced on Schwarzenegger telling reporters that if you have never run or never held political office the least you could do is "show up and answer people's questions."

The key question right now will Schwarzenegger's absence from tonight's debate hurt him with some voters? Political observers say they just don't know. They say, Aaron, you just can't know anything for sure in this very crazy race -- Aaron.

BROWN: Well, it's an interesting calculation and we'll figure it out at some point. The polls have been kind of flopping around. Give us your best sense of where they are tonight.

WALLACE: Well, that's the key question too because we really haven't seen a poll for a little more than a week now. The most recent one was that "L.A. Times" poll in late August which showed this recall race very, very tight that Californians were saying they were really divided over whether Gray Davis should be ousted from office.

Right now the Davis folks think the momentum is on their side. Schwarzenegger's aides, though, say he is going to get out and be with voters almost every day from here on out and they're hoping every day he is before the cameras that helps him with voters -- Aaron.

BROWN: Kelly, thank you. I've never known a candidate who didn't say the momentum was on their side. Thank you very much.

As the campaign unfolds, we've talked to all the major candidates, at least those who accept our invitation. We're pleased to be joined tonight by Peter Ueberroth who took part in tonight's debate, nice to see you sir. Welcome to the program.

UEBERROTH: Thanks, Aaron.

BROWN: Were you pleased, just very briefly, were you pleased that you got to say the things you wanted to say tonight in the way that you wanted to say them?

UEBERROTH: Not really. I was the rookie. I mean as people have been, in Sacramento have been talking the same things for decades frankly, people that served in office for two decades and they have a pat speech.

But I was a little disappointed we didn't get to the real -- the real things about the recall and it's simply that California's budget is terrible and we're leading the state into the wrong direction and we need to attract jobs.

We have to do that. We have to get out and change California to become a job friendly state, so we didn't have those things and mainly talked about all kinds of social issues and that's not why I'm running for governor but I'm getting better at this and I'm going to learn and it will be fun.

BROWN: I'll be interested to know if you find it fun 30 days from now. I hope you do.

UEBERROTH: I think I will.

BROWN: Will you ask, are you asking Californians to sacrifice?

UEBERROTH: Absolutely, they got to -- we've had a spending binge that's been crazy. Now we have to pull in the belt. We have to stop the spending and we're going to have to suffer a little bit.

When any family spends too much money they've got to adjust and any company has to do the same, yours or mine. So, I think we're going to have to suffer a little bit in California so we're not the worst, we're not junk bond status that we start to do things right.

BROWN: Let's talk about then where the sacrifice comes from. A huge part of any state's budget, this is particularly true in California, goes to just a couple of areas, education K-12 and higher education, criminal justice, as is particularly true in California where prisons really were the growth industry of the early mid-'90s. Do you plan on making cuts in either of those areas?

UEBERROTH: Well, basically in education it's mandated for a certain amount of money but all I'll do very quickly is I'll take the waste out and put it in the classroom. So, the classroom will look like it has a lot more money and it will have a lot more money to teach kids and that's what California is all about but everything else is going to be, healthcare, everything, it's going to be pull in the budget, pull in the belt. It's going to be a little bit of a tough time until we get ready to recover.

BROWN: So, criminal justice is on the cutting block.

UEBERROTH: Sure.

BROWN: Healthcare is on the cutting block. There are no sacred cows out there.

UEBERROTH: No sacred cows, but the good news is we had this huge increase in spending. It's in there and we'll be able to remove the waste, remove the bureaucracy and we'll remove some fraud. So, our system isn't working. I'll call all the legislators in. We'll lock them in a room. We'll get a budget and then we got to get back to being the best place to work in the whole United States.

BROWN: You've said a number of times and it's an interesting thing to say I think that as the election draws closer you believe that Californians will really approach this with great seriousness. These are great and important issues and as they get serious about it you're going to look a whole lot better to them. How do you push them along because the polling we've seen doesn't show you...

UEBERROTH: There's no poll. You know the only poll is a couple of weeks old now and I wasn't even in the race so we'll have to see how the polls come out but I'm comfortable and confident that by the time we get five weeks from now and the voter gets in the booth they're going to say who can run the state for this little three year period to get it turned around?

Who can balance the budget and who can be job friendly again? I mean we're 50th in credit rating, 49th in being job friendly, and you know all your listeners and viewers we're losing to those states and that will be over. We're going to start being competitive again in California.

BROWN: Half a minute.

UEBERROTH: When the din disappears and all the noise disappears there's going to be enough voters who are going to get in that voting booth and say we've got to find somebody that can fix this and that's my history. I've come in when people said you couldn't do something, whether at the Olympic games or after the riots, I get Democrats and Republicans in the room and we do something that's good for California.

BROWN: We tend to do these interviews in four minute bursts. I'd like another four.

UEBERROTH: That's right.

BROWN: I hope you'll come back and join us again.

UEBERROTH: I'd be pleased to. Thank you.

BROWN: Thank you, sir, very much, Peter Ueberroth in California tonight.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, cleaning up post-war Iraq, does the United States need help from the rest of the world? Did the Pentagon underestimate the difficulty?

And later in this hour, we talk with filmmaker Rick Burns about his new work on the World Trade Center, why it was built, what it meant, why the towers fell?

A long way to go tonight, this is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Now, on to the Bush administration's decision to ask the United Nations for military help in Iraq. Depending on who's talking, this is either a much belated recognition of reality, a premature retreat, or nothing more than fine tuning of an already sound plan.

It did seem at times today there was enough spin out there to make a guy dizzy. Whatever it is, whatever it means we'll leave for you to decide.

What the administration plans we'll leave for Andrea Koppel to explain.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Iraq, a coalition force led by Poland assumed full control of five provinces from U.S. Marines, a rare handover which could become more common now that President Bush has changed course instructing Secretary of State Powell to seek help from the U.N., the U.S. now proposing a new U.N. resolution authorizing a multinational force for Iraq which would report to the U.N. but would still be under U.S. command.

COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: And we hope that with this additional demonstration of the will of the international community it will encourage more countries or make it easier for some countries who are looking at the prospects now to make such a contribution. KOPPEL: Countries like India, Pakistan, and Turkey with large professional militaries eager to help but unwilling to commit troops without the political cover of a U.N. mandate.

Also at the heart of this draft resolution an enhanced political role for the U.N. encouraging it to work with the Iraqi governing council as it leads the Iraqi people toward free elections.

POWELL: Many people have asked us for a political horizon and this resolution is a way of creating such a political horizon and demonstrating how to get to that horizon by inviting, who, the Iraqis.

KOPPEL: But it remains to be seen whether the limited political role for the U.N., proposed by the U.S., will be enough to satisfy key countries like France, a veto bearing member of the Security Council.

POWELL: Certainly the United States will continue to play a dominant role, dominant political role through the work of Ambassador Bremer and his coalition colleagues and the dominant role because of the size of the U.S. force presence that is there and the leadership we are providing to the effort.

KOPPEL (on camera): In an attempt to win over some of the skeptics, Powell worked the phones calling counterparts in France, Germany, and Russian and while he suggested that the initial response was positive he also indicated that he was bracing for some intense negotiations in the days ahead.

Andrea Koppel CNN at the State Department.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Now to the planning that got us to where we are tonight. Ever since the Army chief of staff raised questions earlier in the year about the size of the force needed to occupy Iraq there have been doubts. Increasingly, the doubts have been coming from former members of the administration.

Tonight, CNN's Jamie McIntyre has learned the particulars of a classified Pentagon study calling the war planning flawed and rushed -- Jamie.

MCINTYRE: Well, Aaron, with criticism of the U.S. military planning for post-war Iraq now coming from inside the Pentagon, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is on his way to the region for a firsthand look.

The trip wasn't announced in advance and his precise itinerary is being held for security reasons but just before landing at a refueling stop in Ireland, Rumsfeld told reporters traveling with him that the move to get U.N. troops to join the U.S. in Iraq was nothing new and, when one reporter implied the current force wasn't multinational, he immediately felt the infamous wrath of Rumsfeld.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: What do you mean? I just said there's 29 countries there now and I just said the Polish division just took over and yet I keep hearing questions like that that come to my head and I can't believe people are saying it.

They say why don't you internationalize it? Why do you go it alone? We're not going it alone. We've got 29 countries involved. One of the divisions was just taken over this week by the Poles with 17 countries in it. Think of it. Now, start over.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCINTYRE: But Rumsfeld is under fire from a number of quarters. An internal Joint Chiefs of Staff report faults the post-war planning process. It says the Pentagon waited too long to get organized so plans were rushed and inadequate.

And this from Tom White, the Army secretary who Rumsfeld fired last April: "It is quite clear" he writes in a new book "the plan for winning the peace is totally inadequate" and that the plans "ignored the harsh realities on the ground."

Rumsfeld insists great progress is being made and called it an impressive accomplishment that there are now 60,000 Iraqis helping to provide security. That, he insists, is what U.S. commanders believe is the key to restoring peace not sending more American troops.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUMSFELD: Their judgment at the present time is that they do not need additional U.S. forces in Iraq. Now, there are some people who suggest that they're wrong. I think they're right and I'm not resisting anything. I'm simply repeating what he senior military leadership, General Abizaid on up that that's their best professional judgment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCINTYRE: Rumsfeld better hope they're right because a new congressional budget analysis concludes: "The active Army would be unable to sustain an occupation force of the present size beyond about March, 2004 if it chose not to keep individual units deployed to Iraq for longer than one year without relief."

In other words, the U.S. could maintain current force levels but only by using more Marines, Guard and Reserve units, or extending tours longer than a year, all moral busting options the Pentagon would like to avoid -- Aaron.

BROWN: Jamie, thank you, Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon tonight. Thank you.

We're joined from Washington tonight by Robin Wright of the "Los Angeles Times," chief diplomatic correspondent for the paper, always glad to have her with us and we are tonight, Robin, nice to see you. To the U.N. issue, what is the -- this is a negotiation. We've been -- it's like Groundhog Day in some respects. We've been through this negotiation with these countries before. What is the United States preparing to give up?

ROBIN WRIGHT, "LOS ANGELES TIMES": Well, the United States is seeking a partnership but it is clearly playing or asking for the dominant role. The U.N. would play a role both in security in providing troops to protect the Iraqi governing council, the new body formed to help the transition political process as well as humanitarian organizations and the United Nations presence, particularly vulnerable in the aftermath of a bombing last month that killed its top U.N. representative and several others.

This is a mechanism also to get the governing council to begin looking at the transition, the political transition, which is one of the stipulations of key U.N. members, such as France, who have put down pretty tough terms to participate or to vote for this resolution.

BROWN: Tough terms, for example, he said?

WRIGHT: Well, particularly demanding that this not just simply be an enlargement of the current force, that any country that participates will have a role and that the United States, even though it will lead the force, will report on a regular basis its progress and its status in Iraq and its plans for transition.

BROWN: Now, the administration, the White House said today this really isn't a change in plan. This is just essentially the maturation of a plan that was already in place. Is that believable?

WRIGHT: No. The fact is the administration has recognized, faced with mounting costs and mounting casualties, that it can no longer have the coalition alone carry the burden, that this is an increasingly complicated and dangerous mission including many dangers that the United States did not foresee and it's looking for a mechanism to widen the responsibility and to lessen its own role and vulnerability.

BROWN: How does internationalizing the force or bringing the U.N. into the force, how does that make the security situation better?

WRIGHT: Well, it looks like it's not just the United States that's standing there or perhaps the west. The United States is particularly hopeful that, for example, Muslim countries, Pakistan, Bangladesh possibly, Turkey, will send troops so it also doesn't look like it's just, you know, western countries but it's also Islamic countries that have given this operation a stamp of approval. If it is the world involved in Iraq, then it looks like it has far greater legitimacy.

BROWN: This may be unfair, but given particularly the guerrilla forces that are at play, the al Qaeda affiliates and the like, are they actually going to care very much whether it's the French, the Pakistanis or anyone else who is occupying Iraq? WRIGHT: Possibly not. It's a little hard to tell, because we don't really know who all the parties are that are responsible for the attacks.

But if you bring more parties into the security and political transition, then you also get greater outrage when there are attacks and perhaps get the kind of clampdowns that the United States is hoping, be it from the neighbors of Iraq or from other countries that may be able to take actions.

BROWN: And, finally, is there, on the other side of this -- on the French and the Germans and the Russians and the rest, is there at least some recognition that failing to successfully deal with postwar Iraq has enormous ramifications for the region and beyond?

WRIGHT: Absolutely.

That's the critical deciding factor in how this vote will play out in the next two or three weeks. Whatever the animosity or tension between some of the U.N. allies and the United States, there is a recognition that Iraq is probably the most important conflict to ensure there's some kind of stability and transition peacefully, quickly, than anything since the end of the Cold War. The stakes are enormous, not just in Iraq, but in all the oil-rich neighboring countries, as well as in the broader Middle East, a body of countries stretching from Morocco all the way to Iran.

BROWN: Robin, as always, thank you -- Robin Wright of "The Los Angeles Times."

WRIGHT: Thank you.

BROWN: Thank you very much.

Coming up on NEWSNIGHT: an important ruling in the Moussaoui case and some dramatic details of what the judge thinks of the government's case against him.

A break first. From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Already planning our special coverage of the asteroid.

On we go. From the moment of Justice Department announced it would try Zacarias Moussaoui in civilian court, legal experts have wondered how such a trial could possibly come to pass. The answer, not surprisingly, turns out, not so well. The government has always reserved the option of bringing Mr. Moussaoui before a military tribunal. Ultimately, it may have to go through that route, especially after a series of recent rulings from the judge.

Here's CNN's Kelli Arena.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The judge in the case against accused terrorist Zacarias Moussaoui says, information from top al Qaeda operatives supports Moussaoui's claims that he was not involved in the September 11 attacks.

In court papers just unsealed, Judge Leonie Brinkema writes, the information -- quote -- "supports the claim that Moussaoui was not part of the September 11 plot, because the defendant was in the United States at the time, but was not contacted."

This is the first time the judge has clearly laid out what al Qaeda detainees have told interrogators. As CNN first reported Friday, the judge granted Moussaoui access to self-proclaimed September 11 mastermind Khalid Shaikh Mohammed and alleged al Qaeda financier Mustafa al-Hawsawi for his defense. Both are in U.S. custody.

Sources have told CNN Mohammed told interrogators that Moussaoui was not intended for the September 11 attacks. And in open court, while pledging allegiance to Osama bin Laden, Moussaoui said his was tapped for another al Qaeda operation after 9/11 outside the United States.

FRANK DUNHAM, MOUSSAOUI STANDBY COUNSEL: In a death penalty case, a defendant really ought to have the right to present witnesses on his own behalf. That's the argument in a nutshell.

ARENA: Moussaoui has won on this issue before. Judge Brinkema ruled the government had to allow access to al Qaeda operative Ramzi Binalshibh , who also allegedly has information that could clear Moussaoui of any involvement in 9/11. But the government refused, claiming individuals caught on the battlefield and held overseas are outside the court's jurisdiction.

MICHAEL CHERTOFF, FORMER ASST. ATTORNEY GENERAL: The government said Moussaoui therefore is -- you cannot assume that there's an unlimited right of access.

ARENA: The next big move in this case is for Brinkema to decide how to sanction the government for defying the court. Legal experts say they expect Brinkema may go so far as to dismiss the government's case against Moussaoui, at which point the government is expected to take the issue to a higher court.

(on camera): It is also expected that, if the government continues to lose on this issue, Moussaoui will eventually be declared an enemy combatant and placed in military custody.

Kelli Arena, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Still to come on NEWSNIGHT: the empty bed, the story of one dead soldier, the men he served with, and the capture of a man who may have been his killer -- that and more.

This is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Well, Iraq and beyond now, some Afghanistan casualties as well. We've been doing this now for a few weeks, showing you the names of Americans who have died in Iraq, now Afghanistan. While that's a small nod towards remembering their sacrifices, it hardly conveys a sense who these people were and what they meant to all of those around them.

We hope our next story does that, at least in a small way. It's the story of one man, Sergeant Steven White, and his friends and the aftermath of his death on August 13.

It's reported for us tonight by CNN's Jason Bellini.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SPEC. JOE HERNANDEZ, U.S. ARMY: I was actually out there when it happened. So I saw everything happen.

JASON BELLINI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): What specialist Joe Hernandez, a mechanic, saw happen two weeks ago was, his colleague, his mentor, his friend, Sergeant Steven White, die in an explosion set off by an anti-tank mine in the road.

HERNANDEZ: I started crying. I was on the side of road patrolling the perimeter, crying.

BELLINI: Sergeant White was also his roommate.

HERNANDEZ: And his cot was right there. He slept right there, actually.

BELLINI: All White's personal belongings were sent home to his parents, but they received no word who killed their son. The U.S. Army, at that point, had no idea.

HERNANDEZ: Wake up next to somebody one day, and then the next day not there no more -- I sleep with my light on, still. I'm 23 years old and I'm sleeping with my light on at night, because I'm scared.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, let's go, go, go, go, go. Get out! Get out! Push them out! Push them out!

BELLINI: Then Sergeant White's battalion got a tip from a human source, one who they say has been reliable in the past.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gentlemen, on your knees.

BELLINI: That this was the man who planted the mine.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's go ahead and search that apartment. We've got our guy. BELLINI: The battalion commanders told his soldiers to treat this like any other raid and any other search for weapons and evidence. They found none.

LT. COL. POMPELLIOT, U.S. ARMY: I don't take it personal that it was one of my soldiers, although it does affect me. But any time a U.S. soldier is attacked, it's a serious issue that we take.

BELLINI: Sergeant White's commanders say they're confident they got the right man. If Army interrogators agree, he'll by imprisoned indefinitely.

(on camera): If he is indeed is the one who is responsible, if he's found to be one, does it make a difference to you that they caught the person?

HERNANDEZ: Yes, it brings kind of -- it's kind of a relief and it kind of makes you feel that the system works, if you can find them. If it truly is the guy, then we must be doing something right to be able to locate someone in a country of this size with this many people.

BELLINI: Does it make you feel any safer?

HERNANDEZ: No.

BELLINI (voice-over): Jason Bellini, CNN, Tikrit, Iraq.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Amazing how much of the program is all tied to events that seem to begin on September 11 two years ago, including the next one, the rise and falling and the meaning of the World Trade Center. It's part of a new film by Ric Burns. Mr. Burns joins us.

Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Over the next several days, as we approach the second anniversary of the attack on 9/11, all of us are going to spend some time thinking about the World Trade Center, the towers. You don't have to live here in New York to think about them or to miss them and what their destruction represented.

The Twin Towers inspired many, some to poetry and feats of skill, others to hatred. They weren't always loved. The story of their construction and their meaning are the subject of a new Ric Burns film, the eighth episode of his extraordinary documentary on New York City called "The Center of the World."

And here's a brief clip.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE CENTER OF THE WORLD")

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Who's afraid of the big bad buildings? Everyone. Because there are so many things about gigantism that we just don't know. The gamble of triumph or tragedy at this scale -- and, ultimately, it is a gamble -- demands an extraordinary payoff. The Trade Center towers could be the start of a new skyscraper age or the biggest tombstones in the world" Ada Louise Huxtable, 1966.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Strange to see. And Ric Burns is here, keeping in our tradition of having one member of the Burns family on every quarter or so.

It's nice to see you.

RIC BURNS, DOCUMENTARIAN: It's good to be here.

BROWN: When you look at them now, when you see the pictures of them, do you see it differently? Do you see those two buildings differently?

BURNS: Oh, boy, how can we not?

They are like a phantom limb. They're in our minds. They're in our hearts. And we look to the skyline of New York every day, those of us who live here. And we keep looking for them. And we're not going to find them. And it's a big, big hole.

BROWN: I'm amazed that -- when I'm flying back into the city from wherever, there's a flight path that basically comes up the island of Manhattan, and you expect to see them. Two years later, you still expect to see them.

It's -- the towers, in their demise, obviously, rich in symbolism, but at their beginning were as rich in symbolism of a totally different sort.

BURNS: That's absolutely the case.

What 9/11 really revealed was that we had been ignoring a story that was really hiding in plain sight. Those were like the purloined buildings. They were the most visible building on the New York skyline. But because they were so controversial on their way up, people really didn't pay attention to the story behind them. And it wasn't until 9/11 that people stopped to say, you know what? These buildings were the most iconic structures on the New York skyline and that there was a powerful story that had a lot to do with what was shaping New York and shaping the nation and shaping America in that astonishing 50-year period after the Second World War.

BROWN: It's a great, in some ways, I think, New York story, in the sense that it is part outsized ego to even imagine building them of the players at the time. And it certainly made New York, symbolically, at least, the capital of the world.

BURNS: No question about it.

And I think part of our motive was to remind people, the World Trade Center was not about two planes going into the buildings and the collapse. It was about David Rockefeller's obsession to save Lower Manhattan, one of the biggest real estate gambles in the history of the city. It was about people like Leslie Robertson, the chief engineer, Minoru Yamasaki. It was about Philippe Petit, this extraordinary Frenchman who became obsessed with them before they were even built, saw a picture of a model of them in a French magazine in 1968 and determined that he was going to walk between them, walk on air between them, which he did in 1974.

So it was an astonishing story from the very beginning. And there was evening going against them. They were the least likely buildings in the world ever to be built. There's so much inertia in a city like New York, so many things you have to clear out of the way. If you want to build a parking lot, it's tough to do. This was not a parking lot. This was the two tallest buildings in the world, 16 acres in the densest, most crowded metropolitan region in the world. It was extraordinary they ever got off the ground.

BROWN: Now, two years ago, where was the project?

BURNS: It was nowhere. We thought we had finished our decade- long work on the city of New York, meaning we had done a 14 1/2-half film and thought we were done.

And I was sitting in my office when the planes went into the building. And we knew pretty quickly that we had, like most people, missed the boat on this extraordinary story. This isn't just the story of any old building. These are buildings that meant more, I think, than any other structure in the second half the 20th century. And somehow, people had just ignored them. We forgot how hated they were.

BROWN: Hated when they went up. It's no accident that the terrorists chose them. They were symbolic of the country.

BURNS: Of the country. They were the buildings that represented New York. And New York, as far as they were concerned, represented the country. That meant they represented globalization, modernization, diversity, a capitalist society, a strivingly upwardly mobile society.

BROWN: The piece airs Monday night on public broadcasting.

It's good to see you again.

BURNS: Good to see you.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Good luck with it.

BURNS: Thanks for having me.

BROWN: I look forward to seeing it. Thank you.

Morning papers are next. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(ROOSTER CROWING)

BROWN: Well, you know what that sounds means. It means 2.5 minutes still to go in the program.

Time to check morning papers from around the country and around the world. We begin with "The San Francisco Chronicle," because it's on top tonight. "Front-Runners Blasted in Debate" is the headline, the first debate, which was held late in the afternoon out in California. You think, if it was a big election, they would hold it at night, prime time, but that's not what they did. And also, "State Urged to Shut Campaign Loophole." Campaign contributions are becoming a big issue, both for Lieutenant Governor Bustamante and Mr. Schwarzenegger, who said he wasn't going to take special interest money, but has. That happens sometimes in politics.

"The Miami Herald" leads with the execution of Paul Hill. "Hill Unrepentant to the End. Killer of Abortion Doctor Dies by Injection," very straightforward headline. Also on the front page, "Joy of Grammy Winner," the Latin Grammys held in Los Angeles -- Los Angeles -- in Miami. Some controversy about that, too, over Cuban artists and whether they were granted visas in time and all that sort of nastiness going on.

The Detroit papers are terrific today. We kid a lot about car stories and the like, but they're good ones. "Detroit Free Press" begins it. "Toyota Outsells Chrysler in August. Japanese Company Sets Record. Total Auto Sales Best Since 2001." That's a pretty big story, right? I think so.

And where's the other one, "The Detroit News"? I have it here. How much time?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fifty-seven.

BROWN: Oh, plenty of time.

"The Detroit News." Big football story, by the way, on the front page. "The Detroit Lions" are going to have a great year. They got a new coach. No, they're not going to have a great year, but they'll be OK. "Big Three Share Hits Record Low." It's all in the punctuation sometimes, and there isn't any here. "Winners Asian Gain Ground on Detroit." Same story, slightly different take on it, though. But, obviously, the automakers struggling a little bit against foreign competition.

"The Chicago Sun-Times." I don't know why this is a story today, but it's a good story, and we like the paper. "Got a" -- excuse me. What was that? "Got a Tax Question? Don't Ask the IRS. Report Finds Agency Workers Got 43 Percent of Inquiries Wrong." Look, it's complicated. You can't expect them to get it all right.

Oh, by the way, the weather -- how much time?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's five.

BROWN: Oh, my goodness. Off the hook is the weather in Chicago.

We're off the hook, too. And we're off the air. We'll see you tomorrow, 10:00 Eastern time.

Until then, good night for all of us at NEWSNIGHT.

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