Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown

Estrada withdraws as judicial nominee

Aired September 04, 2003 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again everyone. We really will have lunch.
We lead tonight with presidential politics. It's after Labor Day so we're allowed to do that now. Perhaps the most interesting test for Democrats is how to deal with that range of issues that fall under the umbrella of national security.

The polls tell us this is President Bush's strong suit. He may be weak on the environment in those polls, worrisome on the economy, but on national security, despite the problems in Iraq these days he seems to sit comfortably in voters' minds.

The successful Democrat will have to pierce that, no ifs, ands, or buts, and tonight we started to get a taste of how that attack line is likely to play. Whether it works or not is an entirely different matter.

The debate is where we begin the whip to Albuquerque and CNN's Candy Crowley, Candy a headline from you tonight.

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Eight Democrats in the first of six debates they will have this fall and when they emerged from this battle, the one most battered was George Bush - Aaron.

BROWN: Candy, thank you. We'll get back to you at the top tonight.

Next to the war and it isn't far short of that over one of President Bush's judicial nominees, CNN's Jonathan Karl on Capitol Hill with that, Jon a headline from you tonight.

JONATHAN KARL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, Democrats called it a victory for the Constitutions. Republicans said it was the result of a political hate crime but the president's most high profile Hispanic judicial nominee has dropped out.

BROWN: Without much hyperbole there, huh?

On to the campaign in California, the recall campaign, and questions about where Arnold Schwarzenegger is getting his campaign funds. CNN's Frank Buckley, a headline.

FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, Arnold Schwarzenegger says he won't take money from unions or Native American tribes with gaming interests but public records indicate he is accepting campaign contributions from companies and individuals that may have interests before the state and, today, Schwarzenegger acknowledged that when he said he was wealthy enough to campaign without accepting contributions he misspoke.

BROWN: Frank, thank you, back to you and the rest shortly.

Also tonight, Iraq in all of its complexity, the Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld is in Iraq, all but said the words light at the end of the tunnel with his colleague at the State Department trying to hammer out a U.N. resolution to share the burden in Iraq. We'll ask Secretary Rumsfeld's old colleague, Henry Kissinger, about where things go from here, that and more with Dr. Kissinger tonight.

We'll examine a story that might be under reported, the large number of American wounded in Iraq. We'll speak with media reporter Howard Kurtz of "The Washington Post" and CNN about why that could be.

Writer and columnist Anna Quindlan joins us. She's a favorite, no bones about it. We'll talk to her about New York, 9/11, and her latest novel as well.

And, could a night go by without a rooster crowing? You only wish, not when it's NEWSNIGHT the bird that brings newsprint and headlines printed on it all because no one should have to wait for all of that until breakfast, all of that and more in the hour ahead.

We begin tonight with the Democratic get together in New Mexico. It was the first major televised debate of the campaign, the first chance for many Americans to get a sense of who all the candidates are. By the way, Election Day 2004 is now only about 425 days away but, hey, who's counting?

Tonight was also an opportunity at least for some of the candidates to try to take one of their own down. We turn once again to CNN's Candy Crowley who is in Albuquerque for us tonight, Candy good evening.

CROWLEY: Good evening, Aaron.

You're absolutely right. It's a long time until the election but only a short time really until the January caucus, that first caucus in Iowa and that's where these eight Democrats who debated tonight for an hour and a half is where they have their aim at.

What we are looking at now is Democrats who disagreed tonight for an hour and a half on healthcare, on trade policy, on a variety of things about what to do with the tax cuts, but it was all overshadowed by one thing. They all agree that George Bush is mishandling just about everything on the job.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN EDWARD, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have young men and women in a shooting gallery right now and the primary reason for that is because this president had no plan and now he stubbornly continues to fight an effort to bring others in.

REP. RICHARD GEPHARDT, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This president is a miserable failure. He is a miserable failure. I some days just can't believe, it's incomprehensible to me. It is incomprehensible that we would wind up in this situation without a plan and without international cooperation to get this done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CROWLEY: Now, Howard Dean came into this debate as the presumed frontrunner leading in polls in both New Hampshire and in Iowa and it was expected that some of the other candidates might try to take a swipe at him. There was very little of that except from Senator Joe Lieberman who took issue with something that Dean said about only trading with countries that live up to U.S. environmental and labor standards.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOSEPH LIEBERMAN, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The Bush recession would be followed by the Dean depression. We cannot put a wall around America. We cannot put a wall around America and we cannot leave our businesses and workers defenseless. We have to have trade, which is good for our economy and good for our relations with Latin America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CROWLEY: Not much harm done to Howard Dean during this hour and a half or to any of the other candidates for that matter. They all came out, it would seem, about even but what you did see, of course, was the Dean effect and that is that the rhetoric of all of these candidates is much sharper aimed at George Bush and aimed at his handling of Iraq, once considered a taboo subject on the campaign trail. Howard Dean has changed all that and, again, he has certainly sharpened the rhetoric.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN KERRY, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The only jobs created in the United States of America by George Bush are the nine of us running for president of the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CROWLEY: By our count, about four, about half of the eight candidates here also tried their hand at Spanish. It is certainly not their first language - Aaron, back to you.

BROWN: OK. I want to go back to the attacks directed at the president. You have a president who in historical terms in the polls is a popular one. This attack line is not without risk, fair?

CROWLEY: Fair except for that we're a long way away from the General Election. They've got a lot of time to smooth the edges. This is about the primary season and in the primary season the one thing Howard Dean has proven is that the Democrats who are at the core of the party, sort of left of center, want anti-Bush rhetoric. They want anti-Bush policy.

When you ask them, more than 60 percent say we don't want someone to work with the president. We want someone to fight him. It was very evident tonight that all the Democrats have that message.

BROWN: Did anybody surprise you in the sense that they said something that was different from what they had been saying either literally or in tone?

CROWLEY: You know not really. I mean, to be perfectly honest I've heard most of what they said tonight but, you know, it's not for us. This is the first time, as you mentioned at the top, that these candidates have been seen nation wide on PBS. This entire show will also be seen on Univision, the Spanish speaking network.

So, this is their time to talk sort of over us. We've all been listening to them for, you know, nine months now so, no, I didn't hear anything particularly new but what is new from the last debate we heard, which is in South Carolina, is the edge to this rhetoric and how harshly it is aimed now at George Bush and particularly on, as you mentioned at the top, what's presumed to be his strength and that is the war in Iraq and national security.

BROWN: Candy, thank you very much, only 424 days and some hours to go.

On to the president who has all the natural advantages of incumbency including an enormous and growing campaign treasury. But increasingly the money is balanced out somewhat by the baggage, the war to begin with. Sources say the president will ask Congress for an extra $60 to $70 billion in the coming days to deal with Iraq, and there is also the economy which seems to be perking up a bit, something Mr. Bush took and ran with today.

Here's CNN's Dana Bash.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The president in the key political state of Missouri honing his economic stump speech.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: America's economy today is showing signs of promise. We're emerging from a period of national challenge and economic uncertainty.

BASH: Polls show growing concern among voters about the economy and shrinking confidence in Mr. Bush's ability to turn it around, which is why Missouri is the second of three presidential trips just this week to critical Midwest states stung by job loss.

Sluggish economy is one of the twin themes emerging for candidate Bush. The others, officials say, will be national security and Iraq. But some top congressional allies who were home with constituents in August worry the president's message isn't being heard.

REP. ROB PORTMAN (R), OHIO: One thing that's been frustrating to a lot of us is that with the nine Democrats running for president we're hearing a lot about what's not going right in Iraq and we're not hearing enough about what is happening that's positive.

BASH: GOP congressional leaders passed that message to Mr. Bush in a private White House meeting Tuesday.

BUSH: In most of Iraq today there's steady progress toward reconstruction and civil order.

BASH: White House aides point to speeches like this one, just ten days ago, also in Missouri as proof they are addressing the situation in Iraq and say the new push for a U.N. resolution is part of trying to turn the problems on the ground, real and perceived, around.

(on camera): A senior administration official tells CNN efforts are underway for more presidential speeches aimed at reassuring Americans about Iraq. One GOP Senator impressed with the private explanation from Mr. Bush said the president told him now that summer recess is over he'll take that message public more often.

Dana Bash, CNN, the White House.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Article II of the Constitution gives the president the power to appoint judges with the advice and consent of the Senate, safe to say these days, at least, reality differs.

When Bill Clinton was the president, Senate Republicans delayed action on dozens of his judicial nominees. They always claim they did so for good and important reasons. Turnabout is fair play, goes the old saying, and the Democrats are now the ones invoking those good and important reasons for refusing to confirm this president's appointments.

In the long run this sort of thing probably isn't very good for the democracy. It certainly wasn't good for Miguel Estrada who, after two years of waiting, withdrew his name for an important Appeals Court seat today, reporting for us tonight CNN's Jonathan Karl.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KARL (voice-over): As the Democratic presidential candidates prepared for their first debate targeted to Hispanics, Republicans expressed outrage at the way Democrats treated the president's most high profile Hispanic judicial nominee.

SEN. ORRIN HATCH (R), UTAH: It's a disgrace and it's a despicable disgrace at that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's just a shameful day for the Senate.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is certainly a sad day for all Latinos.

KARL: More than two years ago, President Bush nominated Miguel Estrada to the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals, a post frequently seen as a stepping stone to the Supreme Court.

Republicans touted Estrada, a Honduran immigrant, as a future high court justice but Democrats considered Estrada a stealth extremist who was not forthcoming in answering questions about his judicial philosophy.

SEN. EDWARD KENNEDY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: This should serve as a wakeup call to the White House that it cannot simply expect the Senate to rubber stamp judicial nominees.

KARL: Labeling Estrada a Latino Clarence Thomas, Democrats made his defeat a top priority. The president personally tried to revive the nomination, often making the case directly to Hispanic groups.

BUSH: I want this man to serve as a bright example of what is possible in America. He'll be a great judge.

KARL: Estrada had the support of more than half the Senate but with a rarely used procedural move, Democrats blocked his nomination from coming to a vote. Republicans suggested Democrats targeted Estrada to blunt Bush's appeal among Hispanics.

SEN. BILL FRIST (R), MAJORITY LEADER: They do not want this president to have a Hispanic nominee of Miguel Estrada's extraordinary abilities to name to the Supreme Court should a vacancy arise.

KARL: In a statement, the president said the Senate's treatment of Estrada was disgraceful, while House Republican Leader Tom DeLay called it a political hate crime.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KARL: Now this is not the end of the judicial wars. Democrats have targeted four other high level Bush judicial nominations threatening to do anything possible to stop them from coming to a vote and Republicans have said those same four nominees will be nominees that they will fight for at all cost, so not an end to the judicial wars but the first victim in this round - Aaron.

BROWN: And essentially, this is procedural but essentially what happens is the Democrats threaten to filibuster and they have enough votes to keep it going?

KARL: Exactly. There were more than 50 votes here to confirm Miguel Estrada. If there was a straight up or down vote he would have been confirmed, would have been confirmed a long time ago but Democrats had enough votes to sustain a filibuster so they never got a chance to have a full vote on this.

BROWN: John, thank you very much, Jonathan Karl in Washington tonight. To California now, the recall and a rule that politicians disregard at their own peril, it's pretty simple. When you say something, people write it down. When you do something, people check and see how that squares with what you said and you can be certain nobody pays much attention until you say one thing and then do another.

You may recall two nights ago on this program when we asked the co-chairman of Arnold Schwarzenegger's campaign how he could say he was not taking special interest money when he was taking money from business groups, millions of dollars? You may have understood the answer. We did not. Apparently, a lot of others didn't either.

Here again, CNN's Frank Buckley.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BUCKLEY (voice-over): When he first got into the race, Arnold Schwarzenegger said he could go it alone when it came to funding his campaign.

ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER (R), CALIFORNIA GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: I'm rich enough that I don't have to take anyone's money.

BUCKLEY: But, Schwarzenegger is accepting money from contributors. So far, public records indicate he's received more than $1 million in campaign contributions.

Examples, a developer William Lyon and his wife gave a combined $142,000 to the campaign and to the recall committee. A political action committee called the New Majority gave $21,200. Businesses have also contributed like the grocery store company Food 4 Less.

All of it is legal but seemingly a contradiction from his public position that his campaign would be largely self-financed. Now, Schwarzenegger says he simply misspoke.

SCHWARZENEGGER: It was my mistake because I was not articulate enough to explain that.

BUCKLEY: His actual position on campaign contributions, Schwarzenegger says, is that he will accept monies from businesses and individuals but not from Native American tribes with gaming interests or from unions.

SCHWARZENEGGER: I just feel that, you know, this is the most likely place that you have to negotiate is with those people and I don't want to take any money from it.

BUCKLEY: But on that count, Schwarzenegger had to concede the campaign recently accepted a contribution of $2,500 from a law enforcement union, the Association of Los Angeles Deputy Sheriffs. Schwarzenegger says that contribution will now be returned.

Republican political consultant Arnie Steinberg says Schwarzenegger has put himself in a difficult position. ARNOLD STEINBERG, REPUBLICAN POLITICAL STRATEGIST: For Arnold what's at issue here is the bigger problem of credibility. What he's got to do is be consistent whether it's with campaign contributions or anything else. I think he started out at the right point. I think the tack he took was correct in campaign contributions and I think when he reversed he started digging the bottomless pit there.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BUCKLEY: Now, when Schwarzenegger was asked to explain the difference between contributions from unions or tribes with gaming interests on the one hand and companies or individuals who may have business before the state on the other hand, he said the tribes and the unions were the groups that a governor would most likely have to negotiate with and that's why he's rejecting their money. But, Aaron, no indication that he plans to reject the contributions from anyone else.

BROWN: Well, at the end of the day the question I think becomes to what effect is all of this? From 3,000 miles away, Mr. Schwarzenegger looks a lot less like Jesse Ventura and a lot more like a traditional candidate. Is that how it's playing out there?

BUCKLEY: That is how it's playing right now in Republican circles. Don't know if that's resonating as much among the general electorate. People when we were out there in Riverside today it's still amazing to see the reception that Arnold Schwarzenegger gets. It's as if you're at a movie premiere and here comes the movie star; in fact, that's what you're seeing.

When you talk to the individual voters they do say we want to hear some specific proposals. They haven't heard those yet but so far at least they seem to be willing to give him a break. They want to wait.

Arnold Schwarzenegger seems to be taking the position that, well, I'm still studying the issues and I want to hear from the best minds and after that before the election you will hear some proposals but really so far we haven't heard anything specific.

BROWN: Thank you very much, Frank, Frank Buckley out in Los Angeles tonight.

Ahead on the program the demand for power, the Palestinian prime minister says he needs more clout to bring peace to the Middle East.

And as the United States prepares to ask the U.N. for help in Iraq, we'll talk with former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger about that situation and more.

From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Hard to envy the lot of the Palestinian prime minister. In name, he is the political leader of several million Palestinians. In fact, the prime minister enjoys nearly zero support.

He is opposed by Islamic militants, often denounced by the Israelis, pressured by the Bush administration and still largely overshadowed by Yasser Arafat. Today, Mr. Abbas went before the parliament and said in so many words something got to give.

Here's CNN's Michael Holmes.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Palestinian prime minister arrived to a scene as chaotic as the political landscape he's having to navigate, outside the Palestinian legislative council demonstrators not many, but loud and at times dramatic.

Inside the council, strong words from the prime minister that Israel caused the breakdown of the Hamas and Islamic Jihad ceasefire with its military actions, criticism too of the U.S. position on isolating President Yasser Arafat, an acknowledgement though of what everyone already knew that there are problems between he and Arafat, problems he said could be healed through legal means.

MAHMOUD ABBAS, PALESTINIAN PRIME MINISTER (through translator): It should never turn in any case whatsoever into an incentive and recruiting camps and serving private interests or they will create a big rift.

HOLMES: Certainly, a sidelined Arafat is not content with that role and has the power to ignore it, Israel saying he cannot and will not be in the picture.

RA'ANAN GISSIN, SHARON SPOKESMAN: Arafat does not want the roadmap to peace. He does not want to move in that direction and he's proven it time and again. He's the big spoiler.

HOLMES: And so, from a beleaguered prime minister a warning. "I don't need this job" he said. "Trust me. Back me or fire me."

ABBAS (through translator): This is the trust you have given me. Either you provide me with all the strength and support so I can be loyal to this trust or take this trust back.

HOLMES: The speech also highlighted reforms undertaken by the cabinet, important ones, but will they outweigh the ranker and deteriorating security situation? The answer to that not yet known, lawmakers will now huddle in committees and report back their verdict on the prime minister in the days ahead. Some legislators, however, already painting a bleak future for the prime minister.

HANAN ASHRAWI, PALESTINIAN LEGISLATOR: The fact that he was unable to deliver politically because of Israeli behavior, unable to deliver domestically because either of the opposition or because of the president, all these things lay against him.

HOLMES: Does the government have a future?

ASHRAWI: The government I would say it doesn't have a great deal of longevity.

HOLMES (on camera): Despite the prime minister's calls for unity there is little doubt he's a long way from achieving it. Fifteen members of the Palestinian legislative council tabled a motion today, a motion of no confidence in the prime minister and his government.

Now, if that motion is not withdrawn it will be voted on behind closed doors by the council next week. Even those who proposed the vote say they realize that if it passes and the prime minister is forced to resign, it will mean chaos in Palestinian politics.

Michael Holmes, CNN, Ramallah.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Next to Iraq, Defense Secretary Rumsfeld arrived there today, his second visit in four months. Secretary Rumsfeld acknowledged all the problems going on but said things are getting better not worse, better every day. Some would differ.

Meantime, efforts to get other countries to share the burden in Iraq hit two obstacles today, one German, one French. The French president and the German prime minister criticized the proposed American U.N. resolution saying it gives too little voice to the Iraqis and too little authority to the U.N.

With us to talk about both challenges and we hope more as well, former Secretary of State and national security adviser Henry Kissinger. Dr. Kissinger has a new book out which details, and I do mean details, a couple of the crises that he dealt with in a term that was rich with crises if nothing else, nice to see you sir.

DR. HENRY KISSINGER, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: Good to be here.

BROWN: There's a negotiation going on. I mean this is in some respects really that simple between the United States and members of the Security Council. How much can, do you think, the United States, the administration give to the French, the Germans, the others, by way of authority in Iraq?

KISSINGER: The question is really what we are trying to achieve. If we can have a common position of what the goal is then the degree of authority that may be given up will not matter.

But if the French and Germans continue to take the position that they have a veto over all American actions and that - and really offer an alternative approach along the lines of their opposition to this operation from the very beginning, then it is going to be a mess and it explains why the administration was so reluctant to get them involved in the first place.

BROWN: I don't want to trivialize this in any way but who has to - who's holding the cards here? Who has the best hand in this negotiation?

KISSINGER: Well, actually we have the best hand in the negotiation because we are in place and no matter what they contribute we will be doing most of the heavy lifting. I think it would be nice, I think it would be helpful for the whole west if the other democratic countries supported us because this is not a fight for the United States alone.

This, however it got started, now involves the fight against terrorism and the fight against terrorism on a global basis and it should not be and cannot be in the interest of France and Germany to see that effort fail. So, I advocated in April that we should make some attempt to bring people in.

I, however, had great understanding for the administration not wanting to do it right on the heels of the opposition of these countries when their foreign ministers went around the world. They didn't just say they disagreed. They went around the world agitating against the United States.

So now we are only three months after that event and this would be an opportunity to say let's ask ourselves where we want to go and where we must want to go is a society in Iraq that is progressive in which the people participate, in which the people share.

This ought not to be a national issue between us and Germany and France and so I'm disappointed that this attitude is taken, whatever argument you make when we should have first raised the issue.

BROWN: Let's talk about -- move farther into the Middle East here. In thinking about it, one part of the book deals with the surprise and having to deal with war in the Middle East. Does it surprise you that more than 30 years later we are roughly in the same place that we were there?

KISSINGER: Some progress has been made since then. There's a peace agreement between Israel and Egypt.

BROWN: And Egypt.

KISSINGER: But if you ask did I think 30 years ago that we would be in this place...

BROWN: Yes.

KISSINGER: ...I would have to say no. Am I surprised? I also have to say no because when you actually deal with these passions this is not just an intellectual disagreement. This is a deeply felt emotion.

On the whole, the Palestinians have not been able to bring themselves to one fundamental decision, which is can they live with a state of Israel or is all this negotiation just a step to push Israel step-by-step into the sea?

The Israelis have not fully accepted the proposition that if there is a Palestinian state some of the settlements that are located on Palestinian soil will have to be modified or given up, not all of them but some of them. Those are the big decisions that they have not been able to bring themselves to make on either side.

BROWN: The book is out in bookstores now and it's called "Crisis" right?

KISSINGER: It's called "Crisis."

BROWN: Part is Vietnam, part is the Middle East and someday we'll talk about Vietnam, the Vietnam part of the book which I found fascinating. It's nice to see you sir.

KISSINGER: Very good to see you.

BROWN: Thank you, Henry Kissinger with us tonight.

Still ahead, the story of soldiers wounded in Iraq, never heard of that? There may be a reason. We'll tell you more about that after a break.

On CNN this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Media have been pretty consistently reporting the number of U.S. troops killed in Iraq. The number now stands at 286 since the war began. But the number of wounded or injured has proven much harder to come by. While we have reported on individual cases or stories, very little has been done on the larger issue of just how many soldiers have been hurt, the impact that that's having.

Howard Kurtz of "The Washington Post" and CNN's "RELIABLE SOURCES" has been looking into this. And Mr. Kurtz joins us tonight from Washington.

You know what, Howie? There's an underlay here. When things go well, everybody gets along. And that's true between reporters and the Pentagon. And when things get a little dicey, tempers flare a bit.

HOWARD KURTZ, "RELIABLE SOURCES": Relations between the two sides are getting testy because the Pentagon, obviously, deluged with bad news in Iraq in recent weeks.

But it's actually quite a stunning figure, Aaron: 574 American soldiers wounded since the war was officially declared over on May 1, almost as many as were wounded during the war itself. But what's equally stunning to me is that it took four months until a "Washington Post" reporter this week dug out those numbers. The Pentagon does not go out its way to make this available. It doesn't put out press releases when soldiers are wounded.

It doesn't put it on its Web site. You have to call them up somebody at U.S. Central Command and specifically request the information.

BROWN: All right, this raises two questions in my mind. Let's try to deal with both of them.

Does the Pentagon have an obligation to report or to make easily available bad news?

KURTZ: I would say yes.

I mean, these -- this is a taxpayer-funded military operation. These are American men and women, some of them getting seriously wounded. And I think that the Pentagon ought not to be in a position of only trumpeting military success. They got a lot of good press during the war, deservedly so. The postwar is not going as well. And they ought not even to be perceived as hiding or minimizing these continuing American casualties.

BROWN: And the other side of this, would it be in your mind fair to say that, while it may not be easy to get this stuff -- and it's not -- I spent some time trying to get it today, it's certainly not impossible to get it, and, in the end, reporters have it and news organizations haven't been as aggressive as they ought to have been to seek it out?

KURTZ: That's putting it mildly, in my view. I think there's a certain degree of journalistic laziness involved.

You can make a few phone calls. You can get these numbers. But reporters, many of them, tend to sort of go to the press conferences and official statements and to deal with that. But also, let's face it. Until the recent bombings have brought Iraq back on to the front pages and the top of the evening newscasts, the press after the war kind of lost interest in what was going on in Baghdad.

All the big-name correspondents pulled out. And, suddenly, we were all talking on the air, CNN and elsewhere, about Kobe and Laci and Arnold and now Madonna and Britney. And Iraq sort of went on to the back burner. And so I don't think there was as much journalistic effort as there had been certainly during the war and during the run- up to the war to dig out both the good news and the bad news. And, obviously, these casualty figures are undoubtedly bad news.

BROWN: I'm not sure this affects you guys as much at the newspaper. It certainly affects us. We don't get pictures. They make it literally impossible for us to be at Dover when bodies come home or at Andrews when the injured return. That is not an accident.

KURTZ: Pentagon officials understand. They're very savvy about the media. They understand that, without video, a story is less likely to get on television or it's going to be a couple of sentences, as opposed to a whole feature story or a whole segment.

Also, the video that television networks -- particularly cable -- loved during the war was Donald Rumsfeld. He seemed to be holding news conferences, briefing, lecturing reporters, sparring with reporters every few hours, it seemed. Since the war ended on May 1, Secretary Rumsfeld has held only nine full-scale news conferences. It's little more than two a month. I think there, too, the news has not been good.

I saw Rumsfeld yesterday on the air, looked a little testy when reporters were pressing him about the state of postwar Iraq. But, again, that not ought to be the test, that you only appear on camera, make information available, when the news is good. People have a right to know and journalists have an obligation to dig out when the news is not so good, particularly, as in this case, when American lives are continuing to be at stake in Iraq.

BROWN: Obviously, I agree on this. And, ultimately, I guess I would just opine that we all have to do a better job. They are not going to help us. And if you believe the story's important, then you got to go get it.

Howie, it's always good to have you on the program. Come back soon.

KURTZ: Thank you.

BROWN: Thank you, Howard Kurtz, "The Washington Post" and CNN's "RELIABLE SOURCES."

Still ahead on the program: trying to shed some light on why the lights went out in the first place. Hearings resumed in Washington, where you'll be surprised to learn, there was actual finger-pointing going on. You're not surprised. Huh.

Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: When the lights went out over a gigantic chunk of the United States, or at least a pretty big chunk of the United States and Canada three weeks ago today, it didn't take an electrical engineer to know that something was very wrong. Now, after two days of public hearings into the matter before Congress, we're finding out just how wrong things were.

Here's CNN's Fred Katayama.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FRED KATAYAMA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The hot seat grew hotter. Lawmakers attacked FirstEnergy's chief executive after he deflected blame for the blackout, saying a combination of factors caused the outage.

REP. ED MARKEY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: FirstEnergy should have not a license to drive a car, yet alone operate nuclear power plants.

REP. BART STUPAK (D), MICHIGAN: What should have happened when all these things started tripping?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I think what should have happened happened. A number of the

(CROSSTALK)

STUPAK: Wait a minute. You mean, when they started tripping, we have blackouts? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, sir.

KATAYAMA: The Ohio utility said it's investigating computer problems at its control center, a scene of chaos on August 14, as depicted in the transcripts of phone logs. Lawmakers and industry folk lambasted it for not communicating what it knew then to other energy companies, including one in neighboring Michigan.

JOSEPH WELCH, CEO, INTERNATIONAL TRANSMISSION CO.: We did not receive any information from anyone.

KATAYAMA: FirstEnergy said it was in phone contact with a monitor of the regional grid Midwest ISO. But MISO revealed that FirstEnergy waited 40 minutes before telling it that one of its plants had gone offline.

JAMES TORGERSON, PRESIDENT & CEO, MIDWEST ISO: We know now that it went out at 1:30. We weren't aware right at 1:30. Later...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, how much time elapsed between the time when they knew it was out and you knew it was out?

TORGERSON: About 40 minutes.

KATAYAMA: MISO itself apparently had a slow time getting info. A closer look at the phone log reveals that roughly a half-hour after tens of millions of people had lost power, some MISO workers finally caught on. But that news didn't come from its own system, as this conversation between two of its workers shows.

Keith Mitchell: "Hey, I got a call from Eric Huffine. He said he heard on the news that there was some big power outages in the Northeast."

RON MINBACHLER: "Yes, there is a major problem happening now."

Independent system operators like MISO act as security coordinators, but don't run lines or generators. MISO's chief executive said having actual authority would have helped make a difference, suggesting that better communication could have helped contain or avert the outage.

Fred Katayama, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: A few other stories from around the world tonight before we go to break, starting with one of those chilling statements on terrorism, the Department of Homeland Security warning that al Qaeda may be planning to hijack airliners again. This time, authorities believe the threat lies in flights that originate outside the United States and pass over or near the country. Most such flights come from Canada and Mexico.

There isn't not much to celebrate these days in North Korea. Millions are starving. Nevertheless, when the dictator says, celebrate, thousands do. They turned out to mark the 55th anniversary of North Korea's founding and the reelection of Kim Jong Il as chairman of the country's Defense Council.

And on top of Japan's Mount Fuji, one giant achievement for a young American. Using a hand-cranked four-wheeler, Keegan Reilly conquered Japan's highest mountain. Next up, he says, Mount Rainier in Washington state. Go get 'em.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, we'll talk with an author and journalist Anna Quindlen. We'll talk a little bit about writing fiction and nonfiction and mostly about her thoughts on the coming anniversary of September 11.

Take a break first. This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: One of the good things about book tours is the chance we have to talk with interesting authors, not just about their books, but all kinds of things. Earlier today, Pulitzer Prize winner Anna Quindlen stopped by. Her book "Blessings" is out in paperback, a book "The Miami Herald" called a polished gem of a novel. We would expect no less form Ms. Quindlen.

But what was on our mind, and hers, it turned out, is the coming anniversary of September 11.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: The last time we talked, it was about a year ago. And we talked about the -- among the things we talked about, the lasting affects of 9/11. I wonder now if you think that they are as profound as you thought they were back then.

ANNA QUINDLEN, JOURNALIST: No, I don't.

BROWN: What happened?

QUINDLEN: Oh, I don't know.

I wonder sometimes if it's America's short attention span, the kind of national ADD that sometimes I think we have, that sense of something becoming history and then moving too swiftly into the past. I wonder if some of our attention to the lessons of 9/11 has -- has left us in the -- this brouhaha over Iraq and the kind of substitution that the administration did of Iraq for the war against terrorism.

I'll be interested to see next week, I'll be interested to see if suddenly a people who seem to need to have forgotten some of the lessons of 9/11 wake up next Thursday morning and look at the calendar and say, oh, that's right. We're supposed to be better people.

BROWN: Right. I suppose there are arguably lots of lessons to 9/11. Some are political and international. The ones we talked about a year ago were personal.

QUINDLEN: Right.

BROWN: How we viewed each other.

QUINDLEN: And they're still personal and they still ought to be personal. We still ought to remember that this was not about memorials and this was not about buildings. And it wasn't even, at some overarching level, about politics.

It was about all these people who were lost and how, in the losing, we learned something about how fragile life was.

BROWN: And is it that nobody can maintain that every day for 600 and some days, or is it that it all has gotten mushed up in the politics of the time?

QUINDLEN: I think it's the second, because you know that sense of your own mortality and of how it ought to make you live according to the better angels of your nature can stay with you all your life, if, for example, you learn it on that micro level of losing someone that you yourself love.

I would bet you, if we went to the families of those people who died on 9/11, there has been lasting change for ill and maybe even for good in their lives. But I do think that what happened that day has gotten sucked in by this political impulse that many Americans are confused or repelled by.

BROWN: I thought -- and we were in a pretty politicized time two years ago. It strikes me now that we are more -- as a country, more polarized today than we were before 9/11, not less.

QUINDLEN: I agree. I agree.

BROWN: How did that happen?

QUINDLEN: You know, I wonder that myself, because sometimes I'll write a column and I'll be appalled at how, the mail that I get, there's no mail in the middle.

There's no mail that says, I really disagreed with you about this point and this is how. It's all either, you're wonderful, or, you're a moron. And it really makes me fear for the future. I mean, look at what's going on now in the best-seller list, with dueling margin books, the far left, the far right, the far left, the far right, when, in fact, most Americans operate some place in the middle. And yet they seem to have been lost in the fracas.

BROWN: What are you writing about today, these days?

QUINDLEN: In fiction or in nonfiction?

BROWN: Take your pick.

(LAUGHTER)

BROWN: When you sit down, put your hands on keyboard, what is it you most want to write about, fiction or nonfiction?

QUINDLEN: Oh, it depends.

I have this perfect balance. But, in nonfiction, I want to write about some of the things that we have been talking about. I want to be writing about the fact that I'm amazed that the entire country of Great Britain seems to be in revolt against spin in the Blair government, when Americans take for granted spin in their government. And then, in terms of fiction, I want to write about the same things I always have, family and love and loss.

BROWN: It's always nice to see you. That's one of the nice things when you have a new book coming out, or a remade book, is, we get our four or five minutes with you. It's a treat.

QUINDLEN: Well, thanks. Thanks, Aaron.

BROWN: Thank you. Come back more often.

QUINDLEN: OK.

BROWN: Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Anna Quindlen.

We'll take a break. Morning papers when we're back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(ROOSTER CROWING)

BROWN: My goodness, we did not hear the rooster. What happened to the rooster? We did hear it? I didn't hear the rooster? It's a break for me.

Time to check morning papers from around the country and around the world. I hate when I don't hear the rooster. I hope I'm plugged in.

We'll start with "The Washington Times," because it's on top tonight. And they lead with -- they don't even lead with the football game, OK? They lead with the concert before the football game to kick off the NFL season. "NFL Concert Draws Fans to Mall." Britney Spears and some other folks were there singing and dancing. I don't know why the NFL needs to do that, but they do.

Their news story -- not that, of course, that is not an important story -- "France, Germany Reject Bid." And they put Miguel Estrada on the front page also, the judge who -- the man who was appointed to be a judge who withdrew his name today.

"The Detroit News," a couple of good stories. I love this story. This is a great story. "One in Five Roads in Michigan Rated Poor. State Rank is Among Worst in Nation." Bumpy Rides Cost Motorists $310 a Year in Repairs." This is an entire economy, right, Michigan, based on cars. You would think they would have roads to drive them on, OK? Also, "Hunters, Suburbanites Take on Unflappable Bird. Michigan Honked Off About Geese." All right, it's not a great news day in Michigan.

"The Detroit Free Press," the -- this one will just make your blood boil, if that can happen. "Error Let Molester Regain His Kids." He's accused of assaulting adopted son after a judge ordered him to stay away. It's one of those mess-ups a probation officer made. And that's their lead. This is a good story, too. "Gutted Grandeur." This is the story of Detroit's old and pretty rundown, as you can see by the picture, I think, train station. Some of the great buildings in the country are old train stations. And they're not doing so well.

How we doing on time, half-a-minute? Oh, eight? That's pretty much it.

The weather tomorrow grand slam, if you're in Chicago.

We'll see you tomorrow, 10:00 Eastern. Until then, good night for all of us at NEWSNIGHT.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired September 4, 2003 - 22:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again everyone. We really will have lunch.
We lead tonight with presidential politics. It's after Labor Day so we're allowed to do that now. Perhaps the most interesting test for Democrats is how to deal with that range of issues that fall under the umbrella of national security.

The polls tell us this is President Bush's strong suit. He may be weak on the environment in those polls, worrisome on the economy, but on national security, despite the problems in Iraq these days he seems to sit comfortably in voters' minds.

The successful Democrat will have to pierce that, no ifs, ands, or buts, and tonight we started to get a taste of how that attack line is likely to play. Whether it works or not is an entirely different matter.

The debate is where we begin the whip to Albuquerque and CNN's Candy Crowley, Candy a headline from you tonight.

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Eight Democrats in the first of six debates they will have this fall and when they emerged from this battle, the one most battered was George Bush - Aaron.

BROWN: Candy, thank you. We'll get back to you at the top tonight.

Next to the war and it isn't far short of that over one of President Bush's judicial nominees, CNN's Jonathan Karl on Capitol Hill with that, Jon a headline from you tonight.

JONATHAN KARL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, Democrats called it a victory for the Constitutions. Republicans said it was the result of a political hate crime but the president's most high profile Hispanic judicial nominee has dropped out.

BROWN: Without much hyperbole there, huh?

On to the campaign in California, the recall campaign, and questions about where Arnold Schwarzenegger is getting his campaign funds. CNN's Frank Buckley, a headline.

FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, Arnold Schwarzenegger says he won't take money from unions or Native American tribes with gaming interests but public records indicate he is accepting campaign contributions from companies and individuals that may have interests before the state and, today, Schwarzenegger acknowledged that when he said he was wealthy enough to campaign without accepting contributions he misspoke.

BROWN: Frank, thank you, back to you and the rest shortly.

Also tonight, Iraq in all of its complexity, the Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld is in Iraq, all but said the words light at the end of the tunnel with his colleague at the State Department trying to hammer out a U.N. resolution to share the burden in Iraq. We'll ask Secretary Rumsfeld's old colleague, Henry Kissinger, about where things go from here, that and more with Dr. Kissinger tonight.

We'll examine a story that might be under reported, the large number of American wounded in Iraq. We'll speak with media reporter Howard Kurtz of "The Washington Post" and CNN about why that could be.

Writer and columnist Anna Quindlan joins us. She's a favorite, no bones about it. We'll talk to her about New York, 9/11, and her latest novel as well.

And, could a night go by without a rooster crowing? You only wish, not when it's NEWSNIGHT the bird that brings newsprint and headlines printed on it all because no one should have to wait for all of that until breakfast, all of that and more in the hour ahead.

We begin tonight with the Democratic get together in New Mexico. It was the first major televised debate of the campaign, the first chance for many Americans to get a sense of who all the candidates are. By the way, Election Day 2004 is now only about 425 days away but, hey, who's counting?

Tonight was also an opportunity at least for some of the candidates to try to take one of their own down. We turn once again to CNN's Candy Crowley who is in Albuquerque for us tonight, Candy good evening.

CROWLEY: Good evening, Aaron.

You're absolutely right. It's a long time until the election but only a short time really until the January caucus, that first caucus in Iowa and that's where these eight Democrats who debated tonight for an hour and a half is where they have their aim at.

What we are looking at now is Democrats who disagreed tonight for an hour and a half on healthcare, on trade policy, on a variety of things about what to do with the tax cuts, but it was all overshadowed by one thing. They all agree that George Bush is mishandling just about everything on the job.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN EDWARD, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have young men and women in a shooting gallery right now and the primary reason for that is because this president had no plan and now he stubbornly continues to fight an effort to bring others in.

REP. RICHARD GEPHARDT, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This president is a miserable failure. He is a miserable failure. I some days just can't believe, it's incomprehensible to me. It is incomprehensible that we would wind up in this situation without a plan and without international cooperation to get this done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CROWLEY: Now, Howard Dean came into this debate as the presumed frontrunner leading in polls in both New Hampshire and in Iowa and it was expected that some of the other candidates might try to take a swipe at him. There was very little of that except from Senator Joe Lieberman who took issue with something that Dean said about only trading with countries that live up to U.S. environmental and labor standards.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOSEPH LIEBERMAN, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The Bush recession would be followed by the Dean depression. We cannot put a wall around America. We cannot put a wall around America and we cannot leave our businesses and workers defenseless. We have to have trade, which is good for our economy and good for our relations with Latin America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CROWLEY: Not much harm done to Howard Dean during this hour and a half or to any of the other candidates for that matter. They all came out, it would seem, about even but what you did see, of course, was the Dean effect and that is that the rhetoric of all of these candidates is much sharper aimed at George Bush and aimed at his handling of Iraq, once considered a taboo subject on the campaign trail. Howard Dean has changed all that and, again, he has certainly sharpened the rhetoric.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN KERRY, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The only jobs created in the United States of America by George Bush are the nine of us running for president of the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CROWLEY: By our count, about four, about half of the eight candidates here also tried their hand at Spanish. It is certainly not their first language - Aaron, back to you.

BROWN: OK. I want to go back to the attacks directed at the president. You have a president who in historical terms in the polls is a popular one. This attack line is not without risk, fair?

CROWLEY: Fair except for that we're a long way away from the General Election. They've got a lot of time to smooth the edges. This is about the primary season and in the primary season the one thing Howard Dean has proven is that the Democrats who are at the core of the party, sort of left of center, want anti-Bush rhetoric. They want anti-Bush policy.

When you ask them, more than 60 percent say we don't want someone to work with the president. We want someone to fight him. It was very evident tonight that all the Democrats have that message.

BROWN: Did anybody surprise you in the sense that they said something that was different from what they had been saying either literally or in tone?

CROWLEY: You know not really. I mean, to be perfectly honest I've heard most of what they said tonight but, you know, it's not for us. This is the first time, as you mentioned at the top, that these candidates have been seen nation wide on PBS. This entire show will also be seen on Univision, the Spanish speaking network.

So, this is their time to talk sort of over us. We've all been listening to them for, you know, nine months now so, no, I didn't hear anything particularly new but what is new from the last debate we heard, which is in South Carolina, is the edge to this rhetoric and how harshly it is aimed now at George Bush and particularly on, as you mentioned at the top, what's presumed to be his strength and that is the war in Iraq and national security.

BROWN: Candy, thank you very much, only 424 days and some hours to go.

On to the president who has all the natural advantages of incumbency including an enormous and growing campaign treasury. But increasingly the money is balanced out somewhat by the baggage, the war to begin with. Sources say the president will ask Congress for an extra $60 to $70 billion in the coming days to deal with Iraq, and there is also the economy which seems to be perking up a bit, something Mr. Bush took and ran with today.

Here's CNN's Dana Bash.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The president in the key political state of Missouri honing his economic stump speech.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: America's economy today is showing signs of promise. We're emerging from a period of national challenge and economic uncertainty.

BASH: Polls show growing concern among voters about the economy and shrinking confidence in Mr. Bush's ability to turn it around, which is why Missouri is the second of three presidential trips just this week to critical Midwest states stung by job loss.

Sluggish economy is one of the twin themes emerging for candidate Bush. The others, officials say, will be national security and Iraq. But some top congressional allies who were home with constituents in August worry the president's message isn't being heard.

REP. ROB PORTMAN (R), OHIO: One thing that's been frustrating to a lot of us is that with the nine Democrats running for president we're hearing a lot about what's not going right in Iraq and we're not hearing enough about what is happening that's positive.

BASH: GOP congressional leaders passed that message to Mr. Bush in a private White House meeting Tuesday.

BUSH: In most of Iraq today there's steady progress toward reconstruction and civil order.

BASH: White House aides point to speeches like this one, just ten days ago, also in Missouri as proof they are addressing the situation in Iraq and say the new push for a U.N. resolution is part of trying to turn the problems on the ground, real and perceived, around.

(on camera): A senior administration official tells CNN efforts are underway for more presidential speeches aimed at reassuring Americans about Iraq. One GOP Senator impressed with the private explanation from Mr. Bush said the president told him now that summer recess is over he'll take that message public more often.

Dana Bash, CNN, the White House.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Article II of the Constitution gives the president the power to appoint judges with the advice and consent of the Senate, safe to say these days, at least, reality differs.

When Bill Clinton was the president, Senate Republicans delayed action on dozens of his judicial nominees. They always claim they did so for good and important reasons. Turnabout is fair play, goes the old saying, and the Democrats are now the ones invoking those good and important reasons for refusing to confirm this president's appointments.

In the long run this sort of thing probably isn't very good for the democracy. It certainly wasn't good for Miguel Estrada who, after two years of waiting, withdrew his name for an important Appeals Court seat today, reporting for us tonight CNN's Jonathan Karl.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KARL (voice-over): As the Democratic presidential candidates prepared for their first debate targeted to Hispanics, Republicans expressed outrage at the way Democrats treated the president's most high profile Hispanic judicial nominee.

SEN. ORRIN HATCH (R), UTAH: It's a disgrace and it's a despicable disgrace at that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's just a shameful day for the Senate.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is certainly a sad day for all Latinos.

KARL: More than two years ago, President Bush nominated Miguel Estrada to the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals, a post frequently seen as a stepping stone to the Supreme Court.

Republicans touted Estrada, a Honduran immigrant, as a future high court justice but Democrats considered Estrada a stealth extremist who was not forthcoming in answering questions about his judicial philosophy.

SEN. EDWARD KENNEDY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: This should serve as a wakeup call to the White House that it cannot simply expect the Senate to rubber stamp judicial nominees.

KARL: Labeling Estrada a Latino Clarence Thomas, Democrats made his defeat a top priority. The president personally tried to revive the nomination, often making the case directly to Hispanic groups.

BUSH: I want this man to serve as a bright example of what is possible in America. He'll be a great judge.

KARL: Estrada had the support of more than half the Senate but with a rarely used procedural move, Democrats blocked his nomination from coming to a vote. Republicans suggested Democrats targeted Estrada to blunt Bush's appeal among Hispanics.

SEN. BILL FRIST (R), MAJORITY LEADER: They do not want this president to have a Hispanic nominee of Miguel Estrada's extraordinary abilities to name to the Supreme Court should a vacancy arise.

KARL: In a statement, the president said the Senate's treatment of Estrada was disgraceful, while House Republican Leader Tom DeLay called it a political hate crime.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KARL: Now this is not the end of the judicial wars. Democrats have targeted four other high level Bush judicial nominations threatening to do anything possible to stop them from coming to a vote and Republicans have said those same four nominees will be nominees that they will fight for at all cost, so not an end to the judicial wars but the first victim in this round - Aaron.

BROWN: And essentially, this is procedural but essentially what happens is the Democrats threaten to filibuster and they have enough votes to keep it going?

KARL: Exactly. There were more than 50 votes here to confirm Miguel Estrada. If there was a straight up or down vote he would have been confirmed, would have been confirmed a long time ago but Democrats had enough votes to sustain a filibuster so they never got a chance to have a full vote on this.

BROWN: John, thank you very much, Jonathan Karl in Washington tonight. To California now, the recall and a rule that politicians disregard at their own peril, it's pretty simple. When you say something, people write it down. When you do something, people check and see how that squares with what you said and you can be certain nobody pays much attention until you say one thing and then do another.

You may recall two nights ago on this program when we asked the co-chairman of Arnold Schwarzenegger's campaign how he could say he was not taking special interest money when he was taking money from business groups, millions of dollars? You may have understood the answer. We did not. Apparently, a lot of others didn't either.

Here again, CNN's Frank Buckley.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BUCKLEY (voice-over): When he first got into the race, Arnold Schwarzenegger said he could go it alone when it came to funding his campaign.

ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER (R), CALIFORNIA GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: I'm rich enough that I don't have to take anyone's money.

BUCKLEY: But, Schwarzenegger is accepting money from contributors. So far, public records indicate he's received more than $1 million in campaign contributions.

Examples, a developer William Lyon and his wife gave a combined $142,000 to the campaign and to the recall committee. A political action committee called the New Majority gave $21,200. Businesses have also contributed like the grocery store company Food 4 Less.

All of it is legal but seemingly a contradiction from his public position that his campaign would be largely self-financed. Now, Schwarzenegger says he simply misspoke.

SCHWARZENEGGER: It was my mistake because I was not articulate enough to explain that.

BUCKLEY: His actual position on campaign contributions, Schwarzenegger says, is that he will accept monies from businesses and individuals but not from Native American tribes with gaming interests or from unions.

SCHWARZENEGGER: I just feel that, you know, this is the most likely place that you have to negotiate is with those people and I don't want to take any money from it.

BUCKLEY: But on that count, Schwarzenegger had to concede the campaign recently accepted a contribution of $2,500 from a law enforcement union, the Association of Los Angeles Deputy Sheriffs. Schwarzenegger says that contribution will now be returned.

Republican political consultant Arnie Steinberg says Schwarzenegger has put himself in a difficult position. ARNOLD STEINBERG, REPUBLICAN POLITICAL STRATEGIST: For Arnold what's at issue here is the bigger problem of credibility. What he's got to do is be consistent whether it's with campaign contributions or anything else. I think he started out at the right point. I think the tack he took was correct in campaign contributions and I think when he reversed he started digging the bottomless pit there.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BUCKLEY: Now, when Schwarzenegger was asked to explain the difference between contributions from unions or tribes with gaming interests on the one hand and companies or individuals who may have business before the state on the other hand, he said the tribes and the unions were the groups that a governor would most likely have to negotiate with and that's why he's rejecting their money. But, Aaron, no indication that he plans to reject the contributions from anyone else.

BROWN: Well, at the end of the day the question I think becomes to what effect is all of this? From 3,000 miles away, Mr. Schwarzenegger looks a lot less like Jesse Ventura and a lot more like a traditional candidate. Is that how it's playing out there?

BUCKLEY: That is how it's playing right now in Republican circles. Don't know if that's resonating as much among the general electorate. People when we were out there in Riverside today it's still amazing to see the reception that Arnold Schwarzenegger gets. It's as if you're at a movie premiere and here comes the movie star; in fact, that's what you're seeing.

When you talk to the individual voters they do say we want to hear some specific proposals. They haven't heard those yet but so far at least they seem to be willing to give him a break. They want to wait.

Arnold Schwarzenegger seems to be taking the position that, well, I'm still studying the issues and I want to hear from the best minds and after that before the election you will hear some proposals but really so far we haven't heard anything specific.

BROWN: Thank you very much, Frank, Frank Buckley out in Los Angeles tonight.

Ahead on the program the demand for power, the Palestinian prime minister says he needs more clout to bring peace to the Middle East.

And as the United States prepares to ask the U.N. for help in Iraq, we'll talk with former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger about that situation and more.

From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Hard to envy the lot of the Palestinian prime minister. In name, he is the political leader of several million Palestinians. In fact, the prime minister enjoys nearly zero support.

He is opposed by Islamic militants, often denounced by the Israelis, pressured by the Bush administration and still largely overshadowed by Yasser Arafat. Today, Mr. Abbas went before the parliament and said in so many words something got to give.

Here's CNN's Michael Holmes.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Palestinian prime minister arrived to a scene as chaotic as the political landscape he's having to navigate, outside the Palestinian legislative council demonstrators not many, but loud and at times dramatic.

Inside the council, strong words from the prime minister that Israel caused the breakdown of the Hamas and Islamic Jihad ceasefire with its military actions, criticism too of the U.S. position on isolating President Yasser Arafat, an acknowledgement though of what everyone already knew that there are problems between he and Arafat, problems he said could be healed through legal means.

MAHMOUD ABBAS, PALESTINIAN PRIME MINISTER (through translator): It should never turn in any case whatsoever into an incentive and recruiting camps and serving private interests or they will create a big rift.

HOLMES: Certainly, a sidelined Arafat is not content with that role and has the power to ignore it, Israel saying he cannot and will not be in the picture.

RA'ANAN GISSIN, SHARON SPOKESMAN: Arafat does not want the roadmap to peace. He does not want to move in that direction and he's proven it time and again. He's the big spoiler.

HOLMES: And so, from a beleaguered prime minister a warning. "I don't need this job" he said. "Trust me. Back me or fire me."

ABBAS (through translator): This is the trust you have given me. Either you provide me with all the strength and support so I can be loyal to this trust or take this trust back.

HOLMES: The speech also highlighted reforms undertaken by the cabinet, important ones, but will they outweigh the ranker and deteriorating security situation? The answer to that not yet known, lawmakers will now huddle in committees and report back their verdict on the prime minister in the days ahead. Some legislators, however, already painting a bleak future for the prime minister.

HANAN ASHRAWI, PALESTINIAN LEGISLATOR: The fact that he was unable to deliver politically because of Israeli behavior, unable to deliver domestically because either of the opposition or because of the president, all these things lay against him.

HOLMES: Does the government have a future?

ASHRAWI: The government I would say it doesn't have a great deal of longevity.

HOLMES (on camera): Despite the prime minister's calls for unity there is little doubt he's a long way from achieving it. Fifteen members of the Palestinian legislative council tabled a motion today, a motion of no confidence in the prime minister and his government.

Now, if that motion is not withdrawn it will be voted on behind closed doors by the council next week. Even those who proposed the vote say they realize that if it passes and the prime minister is forced to resign, it will mean chaos in Palestinian politics.

Michael Holmes, CNN, Ramallah.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Next to Iraq, Defense Secretary Rumsfeld arrived there today, his second visit in four months. Secretary Rumsfeld acknowledged all the problems going on but said things are getting better not worse, better every day. Some would differ.

Meantime, efforts to get other countries to share the burden in Iraq hit two obstacles today, one German, one French. The French president and the German prime minister criticized the proposed American U.N. resolution saying it gives too little voice to the Iraqis and too little authority to the U.N.

With us to talk about both challenges and we hope more as well, former Secretary of State and national security adviser Henry Kissinger. Dr. Kissinger has a new book out which details, and I do mean details, a couple of the crises that he dealt with in a term that was rich with crises if nothing else, nice to see you sir.

DR. HENRY KISSINGER, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: Good to be here.

BROWN: There's a negotiation going on. I mean this is in some respects really that simple between the United States and members of the Security Council. How much can, do you think, the United States, the administration give to the French, the Germans, the others, by way of authority in Iraq?

KISSINGER: The question is really what we are trying to achieve. If we can have a common position of what the goal is then the degree of authority that may be given up will not matter.

But if the French and Germans continue to take the position that they have a veto over all American actions and that - and really offer an alternative approach along the lines of their opposition to this operation from the very beginning, then it is going to be a mess and it explains why the administration was so reluctant to get them involved in the first place.

BROWN: I don't want to trivialize this in any way but who has to - who's holding the cards here? Who has the best hand in this negotiation?

KISSINGER: Well, actually we have the best hand in the negotiation because we are in place and no matter what they contribute we will be doing most of the heavy lifting. I think it would be nice, I think it would be helpful for the whole west if the other democratic countries supported us because this is not a fight for the United States alone.

This, however it got started, now involves the fight against terrorism and the fight against terrorism on a global basis and it should not be and cannot be in the interest of France and Germany to see that effort fail. So, I advocated in April that we should make some attempt to bring people in.

I, however, had great understanding for the administration not wanting to do it right on the heels of the opposition of these countries when their foreign ministers went around the world. They didn't just say they disagreed. They went around the world agitating against the United States.

So now we are only three months after that event and this would be an opportunity to say let's ask ourselves where we want to go and where we must want to go is a society in Iraq that is progressive in which the people participate, in which the people share.

This ought not to be a national issue between us and Germany and France and so I'm disappointed that this attitude is taken, whatever argument you make when we should have first raised the issue.

BROWN: Let's talk about -- move farther into the Middle East here. In thinking about it, one part of the book deals with the surprise and having to deal with war in the Middle East. Does it surprise you that more than 30 years later we are roughly in the same place that we were there?

KISSINGER: Some progress has been made since then. There's a peace agreement between Israel and Egypt.

BROWN: And Egypt.

KISSINGER: But if you ask did I think 30 years ago that we would be in this place...

BROWN: Yes.

KISSINGER: ...I would have to say no. Am I surprised? I also have to say no because when you actually deal with these passions this is not just an intellectual disagreement. This is a deeply felt emotion.

On the whole, the Palestinians have not been able to bring themselves to one fundamental decision, which is can they live with a state of Israel or is all this negotiation just a step to push Israel step-by-step into the sea?

The Israelis have not fully accepted the proposition that if there is a Palestinian state some of the settlements that are located on Palestinian soil will have to be modified or given up, not all of them but some of them. Those are the big decisions that they have not been able to bring themselves to make on either side.

BROWN: The book is out in bookstores now and it's called "Crisis" right?

KISSINGER: It's called "Crisis."

BROWN: Part is Vietnam, part is the Middle East and someday we'll talk about Vietnam, the Vietnam part of the book which I found fascinating. It's nice to see you sir.

KISSINGER: Very good to see you.

BROWN: Thank you, Henry Kissinger with us tonight.

Still ahead, the story of soldiers wounded in Iraq, never heard of that? There may be a reason. We'll tell you more about that after a break.

On CNN this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Media have been pretty consistently reporting the number of U.S. troops killed in Iraq. The number now stands at 286 since the war began. But the number of wounded or injured has proven much harder to come by. While we have reported on individual cases or stories, very little has been done on the larger issue of just how many soldiers have been hurt, the impact that that's having.

Howard Kurtz of "The Washington Post" and CNN's "RELIABLE SOURCES" has been looking into this. And Mr. Kurtz joins us tonight from Washington.

You know what, Howie? There's an underlay here. When things go well, everybody gets along. And that's true between reporters and the Pentagon. And when things get a little dicey, tempers flare a bit.

HOWARD KURTZ, "RELIABLE SOURCES": Relations between the two sides are getting testy because the Pentagon, obviously, deluged with bad news in Iraq in recent weeks.

But it's actually quite a stunning figure, Aaron: 574 American soldiers wounded since the war was officially declared over on May 1, almost as many as were wounded during the war itself. But what's equally stunning to me is that it took four months until a "Washington Post" reporter this week dug out those numbers. The Pentagon does not go out its way to make this available. It doesn't put out press releases when soldiers are wounded.

It doesn't put it on its Web site. You have to call them up somebody at U.S. Central Command and specifically request the information.

BROWN: All right, this raises two questions in my mind. Let's try to deal with both of them.

Does the Pentagon have an obligation to report or to make easily available bad news?

KURTZ: I would say yes.

I mean, these -- this is a taxpayer-funded military operation. These are American men and women, some of them getting seriously wounded. And I think that the Pentagon ought not to be in a position of only trumpeting military success. They got a lot of good press during the war, deservedly so. The postwar is not going as well. And they ought not even to be perceived as hiding or minimizing these continuing American casualties.

BROWN: And the other side of this, would it be in your mind fair to say that, while it may not be easy to get this stuff -- and it's not -- I spent some time trying to get it today, it's certainly not impossible to get it, and, in the end, reporters have it and news organizations haven't been as aggressive as they ought to have been to seek it out?

KURTZ: That's putting it mildly, in my view. I think there's a certain degree of journalistic laziness involved.

You can make a few phone calls. You can get these numbers. But reporters, many of them, tend to sort of go to the press conferences and official statements and to deal with that. But also, let's face it. Until the recent bombings have brought Iraq back on to the front pages and the top of the evening newscasts, the press after the war kind of lost interest in what was going on in Baghdad.

All the big-name correspondents pulled out. And, suddenly, we were all talking on the air, CNN and elsewhere, about Kobe and Laci and Arnold and now Madonna and Britney. And Iraq sort of went on to the back burner. And so I don't think there was as much journalistic effort as there had been certainly during the war and during the run- up to the war to dig out both the good news and the bad news. And, obviously, these casualty figures are undoubtedly bad news.

BROWN: I'm not sure this affects you guys as much at the newspaper. It certainly affects us. We don't get pictures. They make it literally impossible for us to be at Dover when bodies come home or at Andrews when the injured return. That is not an accident.

KURTZ: Pentagon officials understand. They're very savvy about the media. They understand that, without video, a story is less likely to get on television or it's going to be a couple of sentences, as opposed to a whole feature story or a whole segment.

Also, the video that television networks -- particularly cable -- loved during the war was Donald Rumsfeld. He seemed to be holding news conferences, briefing, lecturing reporters, sparring with reporters every few hours, it seemed. Since the war ended on May 1, Secretary Rumsfeld has held only nine full-scale news conferences. It's little more than two a month. I think there, too, the news has not been good.

I saw Rumsfeld yesterday on the air, looked a little testy when reporters were pressing him about the state of postwar Iraq. But, again, that not ought to be the test, that you only appear on camera, make information available, when the news is good. People have a right to know and journalists have an obligation to dig out when the news is not so good, particularly, as in this case, when American lives are continuing to be at stake in Iraq.

BROWN: Obviously, I agree on this. And, ultimately, I guess I would just opine that we all have to do a better job. They are not going to help us. And if you believe the story's important, then you got to go get it.

Howie, it's always good to have you on the program. Come back soon.

KURTZ: Thank you.

BROWN: Thank you, Howard Kurtz, "The Washington Post" and CNN's "RELIABLE SOURCES."

Still ahead on the program: trying to shed some light on why the lights went out in the first place. Hearings resumed in Washington, where you'll be surprised to learn, there was actual finger-pointing going on. You're not surprised. Huh.

Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: When the lights went out over a gigantic chunk of the United States, or at least a pretty big chunk of the United States and Canada three weeks ago today, it didn't take an electrical engineer to know that something was very wrong. Now, after two days of public hearings into the matter before Congress, we're finding out just how wrong things were.

Here's CNN's Fred Katayama.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FRED KATAYAMA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The hot seat grew hotter. Lawmakers attacked FirstEnergy's chief executive after he deflected blame for the blackout, saying a combination of factors caused the outage.

REP. ED MARKEY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: FirstEnergy should have not a license to drive a car, yet alone operate nuclear power plants.

REP. BART STUPAK (D), MICHIGAN: What should have happened when all these things started tripping?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I think what should have happened happened. A number of the

(CROSSTALK)

STUPAK: Wait a minute. You mean, when they started tripping, we have blackouts? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, sir.

KATAYAMA: The Ohio utility said it's investigating computer problems at its control center, a scene of chaos on August 14, as depicted in the transcripts of phone logs. Lawmakers and industry folk lambasted it for not communicating what it knew then to other energy companies, including one in neighboring Michigan.

JOSEPH WELCH, CEO, INTERNATIONAL TRANSMISSION CO.: We did not receive any information from anyone.

KATAYAMA: FirstEnergy said it was in phone contact with a monitor of the regional grid Midwest ISO. But MISO revealed that FirstEnergy waited 40 minutes before telling it that one of its plants had gone offline.

JAMES TORGERSON, PRESIDENT & CEO, MIDWEST ISO: We know now that it went out at 1:30. We weren't aware right at 1:30. Later...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, how much time elapsed between the time when they knew it was out and you knew it was out?

TORGERSON: About 40 minutes.

KATAYAMA: MISO itself apparently had a slow time getting info. A closer look at the phone log reveals that roughly a half-hour after tens of millions of people had lost power, some MISO workers finally caught on. But that news didn't come from its own system, as this conversation between two of its workers shows.

Keith Mitchell: "Hey, I got a call from Eric Huffine. He said he heard on the news that there was some big power outages in the Northeast."

RON MINBACHLER: "Yes, there is a major problem happening now."

Independent system operators like MISO act as security coordinators, but don't run lines or generators. MISO's chief executive said having actual authority would have helped make a difference, suggesting that better communication could have helped contain or avert the outage.

Fred Katayama, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: A few other stories from around the world tonight before we go to break, starting with one of those chilling statements on terrorism, the Department of Homeland Security warning that al Qaeda may be planning to hijack airliners again. This time, authorities believe the threat lies in flights that originate outside the United States and pass over or near the country. Most such flights come from Canada and Mexico.

There isn't not much to celebrate these days in North Korea. Millions are starving. Nevertheless, when the dictator says, celebrate, thousands do. They turned out to mark the 55th anniversary of North Korea's founding and the reelection of Kim Jong Il as chairman of the country's Defense Council.

And on top of Japan's Mount Fuji, one giant achievement for a young American. Using a hand-cranked four-wheeler, Keegan Reilly conquered Japan's highest mountain. Next up, he says, Mount Rainier in Washington state. Go get 'em.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, we'll talk with an author and journalist Anna Quindlen. We'll talk a little bit about writing fiction and nonfiction and mostly about her thoughts on the coming anniversary of September 11.

Take a break first. This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: One of the good things about book tours is the chance we have to talk with interesting authors, not just about their books, but all kinds of things. Earlier today, Pulitzer Prize winner Anna Quindlen stopped by. Her book "Blessings" is out in paperback, a book "The Miami Herald" called a polished gem of a novel. We would expect no less form Ms. Quindlen.

But what was on our mind, and hers, it turned out, is the coming anniversary of September 11.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: The last time we talked, it was about a year ago. And we talked about the -- among the things we talked about, the lasting affects of 9/11. I wonder now if you think that they are as profound as you thought they were back then.

ANNA QUINDLEN, JOURNALIST: No, I don't.

BROWN: What happened?

QUINDLEN: Oh, I don't know.

I wonder sometimes if it's America's short attention span, the kind of national ADD that sometimes I think we have, that sense of something becoming history and then moving too swiftly into the past. I wonder if some of our attention to the lessons of 9/11 has -- has left us in the -- this brouhaha over Iraq and the kind of substitution that the administration did of Iraq for the war against terrorism.

I'll be interested to see next week, I'll be interested to see if suddenly a people who seem to need to have forgotten some of the lessons of 9/11 wake up next Thursday morning and look at the calendar and say, oh, that's right. We're supposed to be better people.

BROWN: Right. I suppose there are arguably lots of lessons to 9/11. Some are political and international. The ones we talked about a year ago were personal.

QUINDLEN: Right.

BROWN: How we viewed each other.

QUINDLEN: And they're still personal and they still ought to be personal. We still ought to remember that this was not about memorials and this was not about buildings. And it wasn't even, at some overarching level, about politics.

It was about all these people who were lost and how, in the losing, we learned something about how fragile life was.

BROWN: And is it that nobody can maintain that every day for 600 and some days, or is it that it all has gotten mushed up in the politics of the time?

QUINDLEN: I think it's the second, because you know that sense of your own mortality and of how it ought to make you live according to the better angels of your nature can stay with you all your life, if, for example, you learn it on that micro level of losing someone that you yourself love.

I would bet you, if we went to the families of those people who died on 9/11, there has been lasting change for ill and maybe even for good in their lives. But I do think that what happened that day has gotten sucked in by this political impulse that many Americans are confused or repelled by.

BROWN: I thought -- and we were in a pretty politicized time two years ago. It strikes me now that we are more -- as a country, more polarized today than we were before 9/11, not less.

QUINDLEN: I agree. I agree.

BROWN: How did that happen?

QUINDLEN: You know, I wonder that myself, because sometimes I'll write a column and I'll be appalled at how, the mail that I get, there's no mail in the middle.

There's no mail that says, I really disagreed with you about this point and this is how. It's all either, you're wonderful, or, you're a moron. And it really makes me fear for the future. I mean, look at what's going on now in the best-seller list, with dueling margin books, the far left, the far right, the far left, the far right, when, in fact, most Americans operate some place in the middle. And yet they seem to have been lost in the fracas.

BROWN: What are you writing about today, these days?

QUINDLEN: In fiction or in nonfiction?

BROWN: Take your pick.

(LAUGHTER)

BROWN: When you sit down, put your hands on keyboard, what is it you most want to write about, fiction or nonfiction?

QUINDLEN: Oh, it depends.

I have this perfect balance. But, in nonfiction, I want to write about some of the things that we have been talking about. I want to be writing about the fact that I'm amazed that the entire country of Great Britain seems to be in revolt against spin in the Blair government, when Americans take for granted spin in their government. And then, in terms of fiction, I want to write about the same things I always have, family and love and loss.

BROWN: It's always nice to see you. That's one of the nice things when you have a new book coming out, or a remade book, is, we get our four or five minutes with you. It's a treat.

QUINDLEN: Well, thanks. Thanks, Aaron.

BROWN: Thank you. Come back more often.

QUINDLEN: OK.

BROWN: Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Anna Quindlen.

We'll take a break. Morning papers when we're back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(ROOSTER CROWING)

BROWN: My goodness, we did not hear the rooster. What happened to the rooster? We did hear it? I didn't hear the rooster? It's a break for me.

Time to check morning papers from around the country and around the world. I hate when I don't hear the rooster. I hope I'm plugged in.

We'll start with "The Washington Times," because it's on top tonight. And they lead with -- they don't even lead with the football game, OK? They lead with the concert before the football game to kick off the NFL season. "NFL Concert Draws Fans to Mall." Britney Spears and some other folks were there singing and dancing. I don't know why the NFL needs to do that, but they do.

Their news story -- not that, of course, that is not an important story -- "France, Germany Reject Bid." And they put Miguel Estrada on the front page also, the judge who -- the man who was appointed to be a judge who withdrew his name today.

"The Detroit News," a couple of good stories. I love this story. This is a great story. "One in Five Roads in Michigan Rated Poor. State Rank is Among Worst in Nation." Bumpy Rides Cost Motorists $310 a Year in Repairs." This is an entire economy, right, Michigan, based on cars. You would think they would have roads to drive them on, OK? Also, "Hunters, Suburbanites Take on Unflappable Bird. Michigan Honked Off About Geese." All right, it's not a great news day in Michigan.

"The Detroit Free Press," the -- this one will just make your blood boil, if that can happen. "Error Let Molester Regain His Kids." He's accused of assaulting adopted son after a judge ordered him to stay away. It's one of those mess-ups a probation officer made. And that's their lead. This is a good story, too. "Gutted Grandeur." This is the story of Detroit's old and pretty rundown, as you can see by the picture, I think, train station. Some of the great buildings in the country are old train stations. And they're not doing so well.

How we doing on time, half-a-minute? Oh, eight? That's pretty much it.

The weather tomorrow grand slam, if you're in Chicago.

We'll see you tomorrow, 10:00 Eastern. Until then, good night for all of us at NEWSNIGHT.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com